August 14, 2025 • 32 mins
Literacy begins with embracing the whole child, says Stacy Benge, an expert on early literacy and a proponent of child-led play. Her mission to help educators approach literacy in a way that builds confident, curious, lifelong learners.
In this podcast, Stacy defines child-led play (and dispels myths about it), including the difference between child-led and adult-led learning.
Stacy also explains how child-led play develops skills essential to literacy, and go through each of them: language, visual perception, phonological awareness and physical development.
She recommends 90 minutes of uninterrupted time in which children are completely in control.
"When I was in the classroom, I found that that's when most of my behavior issues released," she says.
Stacy also describes how listeners can create spaces that promote child- led play and connect all types of play to literacy development!
"Play is that critical piece for that language to develop. I always say a quiet classroom does not produce language," says Stacy.
To learn more about Stacy and her work, visit www.stacybenge.com. You also can connect with her on Instagram, LinkedIn and Facebook.
Her book, "The Whole Child Alphabet: How Young Children Actually Develop Literacy" is available for purchase on the Exchange Press website.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Welcome to the Child Care Business Podcast, brought
to you by ProCare Solutions.
This podcast is all about givingchildcare, preschool, daycare,
afterschool, and other earlyeducation professionals a fun
(00:22):
and upbeat way to learn aboutstrategies and inspiration you
can use to thrive.
Let's jump in.
SPEAKER_02 (00:54):
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Child Care
Business Podcast.
My name is Leah Woodbury, andI'm happy to have you join us
today.
I apologize for my voice.
I'm getting a little bit of asummer cold here coming off the
end of it, at least I hope.
Today, we are thrilled to haveStacey Benji with us.
Did I pronounce that right,Stacey?
It's Benj.
SPEAKER_01 (01:14):
Yeah, it's mispronounced all the time, so I
typically just go with it.
SPEAKER_02 (01:21):
Well, we are thrilled to have Stacey Benj
with us.
She's an expert on earlyliteracy, and today she's going
to share her insights onchild-led learning.
So welcome, Stacey.
We're so glad to have you herewith us.
I
SPEAKER_01 (01:33):
am so happy to be here.
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_02 (01:37):
So we always like to start these podcasts getting a
little bit of background on ourguests.
Tell us how you became involvedin ECE and chose it as your
career path.
SPEAKER_01 (01:47):
Well, I started working in after-school care
when I was in high school, andthen when I was in college, just
started working part-time in alocal preschool, and that was
really my first introductionwith three- and four-year-olds.
And my original...
career path or what I thought Iwas going to do when I was in
college was speech and languagepathology.
(02:07):
And so I was pursuing mybachelor's degree in that.
And there's kind of a story thathas to do with the boy that I
like kind of switched some of mycoursework around.
And yeah, but when I did that, Istarted really studying child
development and started learningabout the whole child.
(02:30):
And I really, I just wasenthralled with that and
intrigued with it.
And I still very much loved thatspeech and language aspect of
it, but I loved seeing how itconnected to the whole child.
And so instead of getting mymaster's in speech and language
pathology, I ended up getting itin child development and then
(02:51):
worked in preschools up until myyoungest son died.
started kindergarten.
And then I stepped out of theclassroom at that point and
started consulting andpresenting.
And then I learned when I waspresenting that I loved talking
about literacy, early literacy,but not just the reading part of
(03:14):
it, but how the foundationsupported.
And that really, I guess like 10years ago, I started kind of
honing all my presentationsaround that.
And that all kind of cametogether and created my book
that I wrote a couple of yearsago.
So.
SPEAKER_02 (03:27):
Okay.
That's a great story startingsomewhere.
SPEAKER_01 (03:31):
Yes.
Yeah.
And the boy that I made the bigdecision on, I thought we were
gonna get married, but wedidn't.
So it's okay.
Like it all, you know, it tookme down this path that I, that
I'm, that I'm glad I'm here andI'm glad that I chose the career
(03:53):
that I did.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (03:54):
Well, yeah, me too.
Me too.
Me too.
So let's get on to the topic athand.
Today, we're going to be talkingabout child led play and
learning.
So can you define exactly whatthat is?
Because I think it sounds likeone of those things that often
the definition isn't correctwhen people use
SPEAKER_01 (04:15):
it.
Yes.
And the last several years havestarted being very intentional
in saying child-led play,because I think we're blurring
the lines of what play actuallyis.
And true play is of the child.
The child is the center of it.
The child has complete...
control of it they make all thechoices who they play with what
(04:38):
they play how long they playwhen and where they play I
equate it to like when we weregrowing up you know at least for
my childhood you know we wouldget outside as soon as we could
and we played until we had tocome back inside but we as the
children were the ones who werein control we didn't have the
(04:59):
adults you telling us what to door what we should do or how we
should do it.
It was all about us being incontrol.
And so when I talk aboutchild-led play, that's what I'm
talking about is where thechildren just have, again,
complete freedom, completecontrol of what it is that
they're doing.
The adult is really not part ofthe equation.
SPEAKER_02 (05:21):
Okay.
And so child-led learning andadult-led learning, what are the
biggest differences between
SPEAKER_01 (05:30):
You know, I think kind of, well, I could just
mention like the child I played,the child with them being in
control, they can pursue whatthey're interested in.
They can play, you know, what itis that they want to play,
what's important to them.
And a lot of times we'll see,you know, You know, maybe if
there's a show or TV show orsomething that they're watching
(05:50):
or something that's, you know,that they've seen at home, you
know, that could be like greatthings, too.
Like if there's a new siblingthat's been born, we'll see
children act that out in theirplay.
But the child, you know, they'repursuing what they're interested
in.
And what we see is if we givechildren this chunk of time to
play, that they are persistentto completing a task way more
(06:15):
than we are.
We see if they challengethemselves more and we're seeing
that sustained attention beingdeveloped and built.
Well, if it's adult-led, andthere is time and place for
that, but adult-led is we createan activity, and it could still
be, you know, connecting to thechildren's world and what
they're interested in, but wefind a lot of times it is more
(06:37):
of a learning standards-based,like...
You know, it might be more mathrelated or more like we're going
to read this book.
I kind of look at it as thingslike, you know, our three and
four year olds are not readingyet.
So that's something that we canprovide to them is that.
that we can read to them.
But really that adult-led, theadults guiding it, the adult has
(07:00):
come up with it.
I will say it still needs to beengaging, interactive, playful,
but if the adult has designed itin any way, then that's the
adult-led aspect of it.
And there's a time and place forboth.
SPEAKER_02 (07:16):
Sure.
So before we jump into thebenefits of child-led learning,
Can we dispel some of the mythsthat are often associated with
it?
What are some of the biggestmisconceptions about child-led
play and child-led learning?
SPEAKER_01 (07:30):
That it's frivolous, that it's what we do after the
work's done, that it's kind ofthis either or, children learn
or they play.
And really and truly, it's thecore of children learning.
developing, learning, andgrowing is that child-led play.
And, you know, of course, mypassion and my expertise is that
(07:53):
early literacy component.
But when we look at the wholechild, that child-led play is
really, I would say, thecritical factor in the whole
child being developed.
Children have to have that playcomponent.
So I think it's thatmisconception of it's not, you
know, it's not fruitful.
It's not beneficial.
(08:14):
It's just something kids go anddo.
But really and truly, it is thecore, again, of them developing
a learning.
SPEAKER_02 (08:23):
So so as far as let's let's jump into that a
little more, how how the childlearning affects literacy.
So you say that literacy beginswith embracing the whole child
and not introducing reading andwriting at an early age, like a
lot of us may think of how youlearn reading and writing.
(08:44):
How does that child-led learningfactor into that approach?
SPEAKER_01 (08:48):
I think we have to start that with looking at the
developmental foundations thatneed to be in place to support
future reading and writing.
(09:18):
Right.
children have a hard timetracking the text because
(09:41):
they're going up and down withtheir eyes.
Well, that affects fluency.
That affects comprehension.
So that vestibular system is animportant part.
We have a system called theproprioceptive system, which is
the awareness of where our bodyis in space.
Well, this controls, you know,how much strength we hold a
pencil with, how much pressurewe put on the paper.
(10:01):
It holds, you know, turning apage and not ripping the page
and not having to think where doI put my finger to turn the page
we just do it mindlessly becauseour brains have learned to
regulate that well that's a keycomponent because if you have to
think about turning the pagewell that's going to affect your
comprehension and your yourthought process and then the
ability to cross midlines um Sowe can divide our body between
(10:26):
left and right.
So when we're writing, we'reactually taking a hand across
the paper.
We're actually our brain has tolearn to isolate one part of the
body while taking the other partof the body across the midline.
So that's something that has todevelop.
And then our eyes going acrossthe page, that's crossing
midlines as well.
So all of this to say, and thisis one little small thing.
(10:48):
this is just a little portion ofthe foundations to support
future reading and writing, buthow do those develop best?
They develop best when childrenare guiding their own play
because we find that childrenare very intuitive to what their
bodies need.
So their brains are saying, weneed to develop these vestibular
proprioceptive systems.
So we need to spin.
(11:09):
We need to hang upside down.
We need to climb.
We need these movements that Ithink as adults, I mean, we
could do like a, you know, amusical movement that's
intentionally putting the headin a different position or
crossing the midline, but it'snot as effective as children
running around the playgroundand spinning and playing.
My mom posted something onFacebook yesterday.
(11:31):
One of her friends, it was oneof her friend's birthdays, but
they've been friends for 70years.
And my mom kind of went back torecounting some of the things
they did as children.
This would have been like theearly 50s.
But one of the things that shesaid was, you know, I remember
us out in the front yard andspinning and spinning and
(11:52):
spinning until we fell down.
And then we'd lay on the groundand like watch, you know, kind
of watch the sky spin and goaround us.
Well, that's an example of childled play.
The children are completelyguiding that experience.
They're doing that on their ownaccord, but that's the body
developing the vestibular systemthat it has to be challenged.
(12:14):
Well, that strong sense ofstability and steadiness is a
critical component of readingand writing, but we don't always
look at it that way.
But I think that's just kind ofa great example of you know, how
that child-led learning kind ofstarts developing that whole
child.
And, you know, that earlyreading and writing instruction,
(12:34):
if we, I find a lot of timeswhen we start introducing that
too soon, we're pushing outthese opportunities to develop
all these other systems that areneeded for that, you know, that
future literacy.
SPEAKER_02 (12:47):
And so that leads me to our next question about
shifting to how that, howchild-led learning learning and
play develops those skillsessential to literacy, which we
already touched on a little bit.
So let's go through each of thema little bit more and perhaps
start with about language.
SPEAKER_01 (13:07):
Yeah, language is the core of reading and writing.
I mean, that's what it is.
We are decoding language in thewritten form as we're reading.
We're producing it, language inthe written form as we're
writing.
So that language developmentreally and truly is the core of
literacy.
How does language develop?
(13:28):
It develops by children usingit, them hearing human voices
and talking with adults andtalking with their peers.
And if you step back and watchchildren as they're playing,
they're talking with each other.
And even if they're playingalone, which is fine, you still
hear them acting out scenariosand coming up with stories.
(13:49):
But yeah, but that play, again,is that critical piece for that
language to develop.
I always say a quiet classroomdoes not...
does not produce language.
And we can maybe have someteacher-led things, but it's not
the same as those conversationsthat children start having with
one another.
(14:10):
And they can go deep with theirconversations and the
conversations about their ideasand what they want to talk
about.
We're the same as adults.
We like talking about what we'reinterested in.
So if we let children play, theycan have conversations about
what they want to talk about.
SPEAKER_02 (14:29):
All right.
How about visual perception?
SPEAKER_01 (14:33):
So I will say since my book was published, the
visual perception chapter, Ithink, has been that and the
physical development have beenthe two chapters I have gotten
the most feedback on.
But I think the visualperception is something that
we're not quite talking about.
But visual perception is morethan just eyesight.
I mean, we have the mechanics ofour eyes working, like the light
(14:56):
adjustment and the vision.
the focusing like farsighted tonearsighted.
So we have all that, but then wealso have this visual
perception, which is the brainprocessing and understanding all
the information coming in fromthe eyes.
So we have things like a figureground, which is pulling, um, a
(15:17):
figure from the background.
I think Easter egg hunts areprobably one of the best ways
that I can explain that.
Like if kids are out and they'relooking for the eggs, their
brains are pulling that the eggsfrom the grass or from the
ground.
Well, that figure grounddevelops, um, with children
play.
Think about if you're out on theplayground and you look and
you're looking for a specificfriend or you're looking, okay,
(15:40):
where are we going to go playnext?
I think that outside reallyhelps with that figure ground.
That helps with literacy becausethat's what we use to pull the
text from the page.
And if we have like a chapterbook with a lot of text, that
figure ground helps pull theword that you're reading from
the rest of the text.
We have a process known as formconstancy.
(16:00):
So no matter what, you know,what position an object is in,
it's still the same object.
So I think if you take a puzzlepiece and you're moving it
around, no matter what positionit's in, it's still the same
puzzle piece.
So that form constancy is thesame process we use when we see
(16:23):
a letter written in differentfonts.
our brain recognizes it's stillthe same letter.
So no matter what font theletter, the capital A is written
in, it's still that same letter.
So when children are playingwith blocks or they are, like I
said, doing puzzles or justreally moving any object around
they're playing with, the brainis processing, no matter where I
(16:43):
put this doll, what position ormove the doll around, it's still
a doll.
So it helps with that formconstancy.
And then one more, I would sayon visual perception, there is
one called visual closure.
which is if you just see a partof an object, your brain closes
what the rest of that imagelooks like.
So if you're in your closet andyou see just a heel of your
(17:05):
shoe, your brain goes, this iswhat the rest of the shoe looks
like.
So that's that visual closure.
So when children are playing, soif they're digging through a tub
of blocks or any other objectand they're looking for
something specific and theirbrain just sees a portion of it,
the brain goes, this is whatyou're looking for because this
is what the rest of that objectlooks like, although you're not
Sand tables are another exampleif you're digging and only
(17:28):
seeing portions of it.
So how does that tie intoliteracy?
This helps with future decodingand fluency because once you
start becoming familiar with thewords, you don't have to slow
down for every word.
Your brain starts closing thewords.
So that helps with that fluency.
And, you know, like I said, Ifeel like the visual perception
(17:49):
is something that we've just nottalked about as much.
But when you start learningabout it, you're like, oh.
It makes sense.
It makes sense for, you know,the brain to have all these
processes just to help functionin life.
But then, you know, with thatreading and writing aspect as
well.
SPEAKER_02 (18:05):
Yeah, I never I had never thought of it that way.
So I'm I'm glad you went throughall that for those of us who.
Yeah.
UNKNOWN (18:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:15):
And there's more, and there's even more too.
I can probably talk about thatfor a while, but like there's,
there's even more like that,that, you know, those are, I
think the three that probably, Ithink people are like, oh, okay.
Well, when we actually put it toliteracy.
Okay.
That makes sense.
So.
SPEAKER_02 (18:29):
Yeah.
How about, let me see if I'mpronouncing this right.
Phonological awareness.
Was I close?
Phonological awareness.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (18:37):
Yes.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
So this is the brain's abilityto, to separate the sounds of
language from the meaning.
And so when we look at language,language is comprised of a bunch
of sounds.
And then our brain learns thecombination of sounds that it's
(18:58):
hearing and then recognizes whatthat combination of sounds mean
or represents.
So, you know, if I said dog,those three combinations, your
brain goes, oh, dog, and youknow what a dog means.
But you recognize that we canseparate these two.
So phonological awareness, Itell this story often, but I
(19:20):
think it is the best way toreally explain what this means
for children.
When I was like, seven or eightone of my cousins asked me why
are cuss words bad we call themjust cuss words in texas but
like inappropriate words he'slike why are they bad like why
are they and i was like i don'tknow and he goes well if you
(19:42):
think about it you're justsaying a bunch of sounds and so
and and that's showing he waspulling the sound From the
meaning.
Well, the reason cuss words arebad is because the meaning is
very inappropriate.
And so that, that is, you know,but, but that was showing that
separation of, okay, it's reallyjust a bunch of sounds, but, you
(20:06):
know, but recognizing that it'sconnected with a meaning.
So phonological awareness,the...
kind of the culmination of it isphonemic awareness.
So every language has phonemes,which are the smallest unit of
sounds.
And if you think about whenwe're decoding words or we're
spelling, you've got to breakthe words down into the sounds.
(20:29):
So that phonemic awarenessreally and truly is critical for
that reading and writing.
Well, how that develops ischildren need to hear, again,
lots and lots of language, andthey need to have opportunities
to play with the language and toplay around with sound.
So we'll see children, ifthey're playing with puppets,
(20:49):
playing with their voices, ifthey're playing cars or trains
or something of that nature, wesee them bringing in different
sounds like for the train orroom room for the car.
So when they're doing that andthey're doing it repetitively on
their own accord, what it isthey want to play with the brain
starts strengthening theconnections to hear produce
(21:10):
those sounds.
So, and I will say this, whatwe've I know there's a lot of
curriculums that are kind ofgeared towards phonemic
awareness and, you know, I feelwe can maybe bring that in if
we're doing a transitionactivity, but I don't think it
is as effective as childrenplaying and having like that 90
(21:31):
minutes of just playing with thesounds and hearing those sounds
over and over and over again.
And children also are nothearing as much language because
of our devices.
And either they're plugged in orthe adult is distracted.
So I think child play more thanever is so important for this
phonological awareness becauseit can't develop if it's not
(21:54):
being heard.
Right.
All right.
Last one.
Physical
SPEAKER_02 (21:59):
development.
SPEAKER_01 (22:01):
Which is, you know, I kind of talked a little bit
about that earlier on thevestibular and the
proprioceptive systems, themidlines, but our overall, just
our, our, our core development,our muscle development, our
brains and our bodies learningto work as a team.
We utilize this every day.
Yeah.
(22:21):
just you know working or justchildren in the classroom but
when it comes to that thatliteracy especially the
handwriting we think handwritingis just a fine motor um a fine
motor skill but handwritingrequires the entire body to be
developed um so we have a systemknown as mobility on stability
(22:42):
so the mobility of our smallermuscles depend on the next
bigger muscle being developedand stabilized.
So if you look at handwriting,it's not just the fingers
working.
The fingers have to depend onthe hand.
It depends on the wrist thatgoes to the elbow, to the
shoulder, to the neck and thetorso, all that being
stabilized.
(23:03):
and fully developed.
And then again, like I mentionedearlier, then we have that
vestibular system to keep allthat steady.
We have the proprioceptivesystem of the amount of strength
and then that midlinedevelopment.
Uh, so being able to cross themidline.
So all these things that Imentioned, these are not things
that we can teach.
These are things that develop.
(23:24):
We can create environments tohelp foster it.
Um, And we can do, again,musical movements that are
intentional, but it's not thesame as children running around
outside climbing.
Swinging, crawling up the slide,which I know everybody gets all
up in arms about.
But all of that is engaging thisneck and this torso.
It's engaging thatproprioceptive system.
(23:46):
It's engaging that vestibularsystem.
And we really need that to befully developed for children to
be successful when it not onlycomes to reading and writing,
but when it comes to justfunctioning in a classroom.
And I kind of gave this example.
I was doing a trainingyesterday.
I'm like, you know, As adults,let's say that we work out, we
(24:09):
go exercise, and we liftweights, and we kind of isolate
certain muscles.
We're intentional on that.
But let's say we get ready tomove, like we're going to move
houses.
And we have several days thatwe're packing boxes and moving
boxes and unpacking.
And you get to the end of that,and you're like, man, I have
some muscles I didn't knowexisted.
Because they weren't beingutilized.
(24:30):
Yes, and they're hurting.
And you realize, man, thosemuscles are needed for this.
I kind of feel like when I lookat physical development, we can,
again, do some intentionaladult-led things.
And I think it's great.
We have children up and movingand we're guiding them.
That's way better than them justsitting.
But it's not as...
(24:51):
as sufficient or as effective aschildren running around moving,
or even if they're indoorsplaying, just watch how they're
moving every second and reachingacross their body and going up
and down.
And that's really kind ofhelping the brain and the body
not only grow and develop, butlearning to work as a team.
SPEAKER_02 (25:10):
I'm picturing my son when he was a preschooler, he
was constantly on his head onthe couch constantly.
Yeah.
UNKNOWN (25:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (25:21):
How and why are you doing that?
But yeah, I
SPEAKER_01 (25:27):
always say that children's brains tell their
bodies what they need and theirbodies and actions are telling
us.
And, you know, we might think,OK, that's a little peculiar.
But if you think about it, he'sengaging that vestibular system.
It's engaging that neck and thatcore.
So, yeah, there is a reasonthere was a need.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (25:48):
Well, thank you so much.
Let's do your, let's get to ourfinal question, which is how can
our listeners create spaces thatpromote child-led learning and
connect all types of play toliteracy development?
Big question.
Lots of fun.
SPEAKER_01 (26:05):
Yes.
I think first of all, we need toappreciate that all play is no
matter what it looks likesupports early literacy.
So when we look at all thosedevelopmental foundations, we
realize that block play,dramatic play, sensory play,
kids digging in sandboxes,outside play, all of those are
(26:25):
help to build those foundationsthat support that early
literacy.
So I think as embracing that andgoing no matter what children
are playing, It's us identifyingand going, okay, it's helping,
you know, with these things, youknow, these developmental
foundations for literacy.
But then as far as theenvironment, if we want children
(26:46):
to be motivated to play, well,let me rephrase that.
Children want to play.
But I think sometimes we worryabout, okay, well, will they
play?
Will they get bored?
Yeah.
On that, our role as the adultis to design an environment that
is centered around the childrenwho are in that environment.
So child-centered doesn't meanlike what's best for every
(27:08):
three-year-old in the universe.
It's what's best for thechildren you're serving.
Is it your children at home orwhether it's the children in
your classroom?
But knowing them, what are theyinterested in?
What are things that they talkabout?
What are things that, you know,When we see them playing that
they're kind of going deeperinto that play and we design the
environment around that insteadof around a theme or around just
(27:31):
a letter of the week.
I mean, children are going toget bored with that if it
doesn't connect to their worlds,but it's okay.
What is it that they want toplay?
And we bring those materials infor that.
And then we need to allow forchunks of time for children to
play.
My recommendation is 90 minutesof uninterrupted time where the
children are completely incontrol of it.
(27:53):
And I will sit till when I wasin the classroom, I found that
that's when most of my behaviorissues released.
Like there was, there was, theywent down.
Make sure I said that clearly.
I had very few challenges whenchildren were playing because
they're in control that's whatthey're seeking and it's that
(28:14):
child-led play who again helpsdevelop that sustained attention
and all these other systemswe're talking about that are
needed for not only literacy butjust in the classroom but that
that that chunk of time theadult steps back as the adult
don't enter unless the childinvites you in or you see the
child about to harm Anotherperson, themselves, or the
(28:35):
environment, if you seesomething critical like that
happen, yes, step in.
But otherwise, stay out of itand just observe and document.
And this helps you go, okay,what do they need more of to
help with their play, you know,going forward?
SPEAKER_02 (28:47):
That's a lot to think about.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But really interesting, too.
Like, 90 minutes.
Like, it seems like it would bea long time, but I could see how
then they're using their brainsand yeah, using that.
It
SPEAKER_01 (29:05):
makes sense.
Yeah.
And it allows them to justreally kind of go deep in their
play and then figuring thingsout.
And that child led repetition isso important and development and
learning because children aretrying to figure things out.
And, you know, and, and, andagain, I kind of come back to
adults don't enter unlessthey're, invited um i i i kind
(29:30):
of think of it like even thoughwe might be watching the play
and go okay you know what ifthey realize they could do it
this way and this might bebetter but i personally don't
like unsolicited advice i likefiguring things out on my own so
you know maybe make a note of itand go okay if i brought maybe
these materials in but let letthe child go forward the way
(29:52):
that they're feeling they needto.
If they need our help, they'llcome ask us.
But otherwise, this is theirplay.
It's about them and thedirection they want to take it.
So we don't need to step inunless they do invite us in.
I
SPEAKER_02 (30:10):
like it.
Well, Stacey, thank you so muchfor your time today.
This was really, reallyinteresting.
And I don't think it's a topicthat gets the attention it
deserves.
So we really appreciate youshining some light on it.
Thank you.
Could you share where ourlisteners could find out more
about you, like website or anyother info or social media,
(30:32):
anything like that?
SPEAKER_01 (30:33):
Yeah.
So my website is stacybinge.com.
S-T-A-C-Y-B-E-N-G-E.
Both my names are alwaysmisspelled.
So I always want to spell that.
So if you go to that, you canconnect with me on social media.
You can link to where to get mybook, but I'm on Instagram and
LinkedIn and Facebook and all myhandles are under my name.
(30:55):
And then my book, The WholeChild Alphabet is published by
Exchange Press.
So you can go toexchangepress.com.
their website and purchase mybook there.
And like I said, on my personalwebsite, I link to all of these
things.
SPEAKER_02 (31:11):
Oh, wonderful.
Well, thanks again.
And thank you to everybody whojoined us today.
We appreciate you so much.
All of you out in ECE, you know,trying to learn new things and
keep your business running andeverything.
So we here at ProCare Solutions,we're always happy to support
you in any way.
(31:31):
And please do visit us atProCareSolutions.com to learn
more about us.
Thank you, Stacey.
And until next time,
SPEAKER_00 (31:38):
goodbye.
Until next time.
Welcome to the Child Care Business Podcast, brought
to you by ProCare Solutions.
This podcast is all about givingchildcare, preschool, daycare,
afterschool, and other earlyeducation professionals a fun
(00:22):
and upbeat way to learn aboutstrategies and inspiration you
can use to thrive.
Let's jump in.
SPEAKER_02 (00:54):
Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Child Care
Business Podcast.
My name is Leah Woodbury, andI'm happy to have you join us
today.
I apologize for my voice.
I'm getting a little bit of asummer cold here coming off the
end of it, at least I hope.
Today, we are thrilled to haveStacey Benji with us.
Did I pronounce that right,Stacey?
It's Benj.
SPEAKER_01 (01:14):
Yeah, it's mispronounced all the time, so I
typically just go with it.
SPEAKER_02 (01:21):
Well, we are thrilled to have Stacey Benj
with us.
She's an expert on earlyliteracy, and today she's going
to share her insights onchild-led learning.
So welcome, Stacey.
We're so glad to have you herewith us.
I
SPEAKER_01 (01:33):
am so happy to be here.
Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_02 (01:37):
So we always like to start these podcasts getting a
little bit of background on ourguests.
Tell us how you became involvedin ECE and chose it as your
career path.
SPEAKER_01 (01:47):
Well, I started working in after-school care
when I was in high school, andthen when I was in college, just
started working part-time in alocal preschool, and that was
really my first introductionwith three- and four-year-olds.
And my original...
career path or what I thought Iwas going to do when I was in
college was speech and languagepathology.
(02:07):
And so I was pursuing mybachelor's degree in that.
And there's kind of a story thathas to do with the boy that I
like kind of switched some of mycoursework around.
And yeah, but when I did that, Istarted really studying child
development and started learningabout the whole child.
(02:30):
And I really, I just wasenthralled with that and
intrigued with it.
And I still very much loved thatspeech and language aspect of
it, but I loved seeing how itconnected to the whole child.
And so instead of getting mymaster's in speech and language
pathology, I ended up getting itin child development and then
(02:51):
worked in preschools up until myyoungest son died.
started kindergarten.
And then I stepped out of theclassroom at that point and
started consulting andpresenting.
And then I learned when I waspresenting that I loved talking
about literacy, early literacy,but not just the reading part of
(03:14):
it, but how the foundationsupported.
And that really, I guess like 10years ago, I started kind of
honing all my presentationsaround that.
And that all kind of cametogether and created my book
that I wrote a couple of yearsago.
So.
SPEAKER_02 (03:27):
Okay.
That's a great story startingsomewhere.
SPEAKER_01 (03:31):
Yes.
Yeah.
And the boy that I made the bigdecision on, I thought we were
gonna get married, but wedidn't.
So it's okay.
Like it all, you know, it tookme down this path that I, that
I'm, that I'm glad I'm here andI'm glad that I chose the career
(03:53):
that I did.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (03:54):
Well, yeah, me too.
Me too.
Me too.
So let's get on to the topic athand.
Today, we're going to be talkingabout child led play and
learning.
So can you define exactly whatthat is?
Because I think it sounds likeone of those things that often
the definition isn't correctwhen people use
SPEAKER_01 (04:15):
it.
Yes.
And the last several years havestarted being very intentional
in saying child-led play,because I think we're blurring
the lines of what play actuallyis.
And true play is of the child.
The child is the center of it.
The child has complete...
control of it they make all thechoices who they play with what
(04:38):
they play how long they playwhen and where they play I
equate it to like when we weregrowing up you know at least for
my childhood you know we wouldget outside as soon as we could
and we played until we had tocome back inside but we as the
children were the ones who werein control we didn't have the
(04:59):
adults you telling us what to door what we should do or how we
should do it.
It was all about us being incontrol.
And so when I talk aboutchild-led play, that's what I'm
talking about is where thechildren just have, again,
complete freedom, completecontrol of what it is that
they're doing.
The adult is really not part ofthe equation.
SPEAKER_02 (05:21):
Okay.
And so child-led learning andadult-led learning, what are the
biggest differences between
SPEAKER_01 (05:30):
You know, I think kind of, well, I could just
mention like the child I played,the child with them being in
control, they can pursue whatthey're interested in.
They can play, you know, what itis that they want to play,
what's important to them.
And a lot of times we'll see,you know, You know, maybe if
there's a show or TV show orsomething that they're watching
(05:50):
or something that's, you know,that they've seen at home, you
know, that could be like greatthings, too.
Like if there's a new siblingthat's been born, we'll see
children act that out in theirplay.
But the child, you know, they'repursuing what they're interested
in.
And what we see is if we givechildren this chunk of time to
play, that they are persistentto completing a task way more
(06:15):
than we are.
We see if they challengethemselves more and we're seeing
that sustained attention beingdeveloped and built.
Well, if it's adult-led, andthere is time and place for
that, but adult-led is we createan activity, and it could still
be, you know, connecting to thechildren's world and what
they're interested in, but wefind a lot of times it is more
(06:37):
of a learning standards-based,like...
You know, it might be more mathrelated or more like we're going
to read this book.
I kind of look at it as thingslike, you know, our three and
four year olds are not readingyet.
So that's something that we canprovide to them is that.
that we can read to them.
But really that adult-led, theadults guiding it, the adult has
(07:00):
come up with it.
I will say it still needs to beengaging, interactive, playful,
but if the adult has designed itin any way, then that's the
adult-led aspect of it.
And there's a time and place forboth.
SPEAKER_02 (07:16):
Sure.
So before we jump into thebenefits of child-led learning,
Can we dispel some of the mythsthat are often associated with
it?
What are some of the biggestmisconceptions about child-led
play and child-led learning?
SPEAKER_01 (07:30):
That it's frivolous, that it's what we do after the
work's done, that it's kind ofthis either or, children learn
or they play.
And really and truly, it's thecore of children learning.
developing, learning, andgrowing is that child-led play.
And, you know, of course, mypassion and my expertise is that
(07:53):
early literacy component.
But when we look at the wholechild, that child-led play is
really, I would say, thecritical factor in the whole
child being developed.
Children have to have that playcomponent.
So I think it's thatmisconception of it's not, you
know, it's not fruitful.
It's not beneficial.
(08:14):
It's just something kids go anddo.
But really and truly, it is thecore, again, of them developing
a learning.
SPEAKER_02 (08:23):
So so as far as let's let's jump into that a
little more, how how the childlearning affects literacy.
So you say that literacy beginswith embracing the whole child
and not introducing reading andwriting at an early age, like a
lot of us may think of how youlearn reading and writing.
(08:44):
How does that child-led learningfactor into that approach?
SPEAKER_01 (08:48):
I think we have to start that with looking at the
developmental foundations thatneed to be in place to support
future reading and writing.
(09:18):
Right.
children have a hard timetracking the text because
(09:41):
they're going up and down withtheir eyes.
Well, that affects fluency.
That affects comprehension.
So that vestibular system is animportant part.
We have a system called theproprioceptive system, which is
the awareness of where our bodyis in space.
Well, this controls, you know,how much strength we hold a
pencil with, how much pressurewe put on the paper.
(10:01):
It holds, you know, turning apage and not ripping the page
and not having to think where doI put my finger to turn the page
we just do it mindlessly becauseour brains have learned to
regulate that well that's a keycomponent because if you have to
think about turning the pagewell that's going to affect your
comprehension and your yourthought process and then the
ability to cross midlines um Sowe can divide our body between
(10:26):
left and right.
So when we're writing, we'reactually taking a hand across
the paper.
We're actually our brain has tolearn to isolate one part of the
body while taking the other partof the body across the midline.
So that's something that has todevelop.
And then our eyes going acrossthe page, that's crossing
midlines as well.
So all of this to say, and thisis one little small thing.
(10:48):
this is just a little portion ofthe foundations to support
future reading and writing, buthow do those develop best?
They develop best when childrenare guiding their own play
because we find that childrenare very intuitive to what their
bodies need.
So their brains are saying, weneed to develop these vestibular
proprioceptive systems.
So we need to spin.
(11:09):
We need to hang upside down.
We need to climb.
We need these movements that Ithink as adults, I mean, we
could do like a, you know, amusical movement that's
intentionally putting the headin a different position or
crossing the midline, but it'snot as effective as children
running around the playgroundand spinning and playing.
My mom posted something onFacebook yesterday.
(11:31):
One of her friends, it was oneof her friend's birthdays, but
they've been friends for 70years.
And my mom kind of went back torecounting some of the things
they did as children.
This would have been like theearly 50s.
But one of the things that shesaid was, you know, I remember
us out in the front yard andspinning and spinning and
(11:52):
spinning until we fell down.
And then we'd lay on the groundand like watch, you know, kind
of watch the sky spin and goaround us.
Well, that's an example of childled play.
The children are completelyguiding that experience.
They're doing that on their ownaccord, but that's the body
developing the vestibular systemthat it has to be challenged.
(12:14):
Well, that strong sense ofstability and steadiness is a
critical component of readingand writing, but we don't always
look at it that way.
But I think that's just kind ofa great example of you know, how
that child-led learning kind ofstarts developing that whole
child.
And, you know, that earlyreading and writing instruction,
(12:34):
if we, I find a lot of timeswhen we start introducing that
too soon, we're pushing outthese opportunities to develop
all these other systems that areneeded for that, you know, that
future literacy.
SPEAKER_02 (12:47):
And so that leads me to our next question about
shifting to how that, howchild-led learning learning and
play develops those skillsessential to literacy, which we
already touched on a little bit.
So let's go through each of thema little bit more and perhaps
start with about language.
SPEAKER_01 (13:07):
Yeah, language is the core of reading and writing.
I mean, that's what it is.
We are decoding language in thewritten form as we're reading.
We're producing it, language inthe written form as we're
writing.
So that language developmentreally and truly is the core of
literacy.
How does language develop?
(13:28):
It develops by children usingit, them hearing human voices
and talking with adults andtalking with their peers.
And if you step back and watchchildren as they're playing,
they're talking with each other.
And even if they're playingalone, which is fine, you still
hear them acting out scenariosand coming up with stories.
(13:49):
But yeah, but that play, again,is that critical piece for that
language to develop.
I always say a quiet classroomdoes not...
does not produce language.
And we can maybe have someteacher-led things, but it's not
the same as those conversationsthat children start having with
one another.
(14:10):
And they can go deep with theirconversations and the
conversations about their ideasand what they want to talk
about.
We're the same as adults.
We like talking about what we'reinterested in.
So if we let children play, theycan have conversations about
what they want to talk about.
SPEAKER_02 (14:29):
All right.
How about visual perception?
SPEAKER_01 (14:33):
So I will say since my book was published, the
visual perception chapter, Ithink, has been that and the
physical development have beenthe two chapters I have gotten
the most feedback on.
But I think the visualperception is something that
we're not quite talking about.
But visual perception is morethan just eyesight.
I mean, we have the mechanics ofour eyes working, like the light
(14:56):
adjustment and the vision.
the focusing like farsighted tonearsighted.
So we have all that, but then wealso have this visual
perception, which is the brainprocessing and understanding all
the information coming in fromthe eyes.
So we have things like a figureground, which is pulling, um, a
(15:17):
figure from the background.
I think Easter egg hunts areprobably one of the best ways
that I can explain that.
Like if kids are out and they'relooking for the eggs, their
brains are pulling that the eggsfrom the grass or from the
ground.
Well, that figure grounddevelops, um, with children
play.
Think about if you're out on theplayground and you look and
you're looking for a specificfriend or you're looking, okay,
(15:40):
where are we going to go playnext?
I think that outside reallyhelps with that figure ground.
That helps with literacy becausethat's what we use to pull the
text from the page.
And if we have like a chapterbook with a lot of text, that
figure ground helps pull theword that you're reading from
the rest of the text.
We have a process known as formconstancy.
(16:00):
So no matter what, you know,what position an object is in,
it's still the same object.
So I think if you take a puzzlepiece and you're moving it
around, no matter what positionit's in, it's still the same
puzzle piece.
So that form constancy is thesame process we use when we see
(16:23):
a letter written in differentfonts.
our brain recognizes it's stillthe same letter.
So no matter what font theletter, the capital A is written
in, it's still that same letter.
So when children are playingwith blocks or they are, like I
said, doing puzzles or justreally moving any object around
they're playing with, the brainis processing, no matter where I
(16:43):
put this doll, what position ormove the doll around, it's still
a doll.
So it helps with that formconstancy.
And then one more, I would sayon visual perception, there is
one called visual closure.
which is if you just see a partof an object, your brain closes
what the rest of that imagelooks like.
So if you're in your closet andyou see just a heel of your
(17:05):
shoe, your brain goes, this iswhat the rest of the shoe looks
like.
So that's that visual closure.
So when children are playing, soif they're digging through a tub
of blocks or any other objectand they're looking for
something specific and theirbrain just sees a portion of it,
the brain goes, this is whatyou're looking for because this
is what the rest of that objectlooks like, although you're not
Sand tables are another exampleif you're digging and only
(17:28):
seeing portions of it.
So how does that tie intoliteracy?
This helps with future decodingand fluency because once you
start becoming familiar with thewords, you don't have to slow
down for every word.
Your brain starts closing thewords.
So that helps with that fluency.
And, you know, like I said, Ifeel like the visual perception
(17:49):
is something that we've just nottalked about as much.
But when you start learningabout it, you're like, oh.
It makes sense.
It makes sense for, you know,the brain to have all these
processes just to help functionin life.
But then, you know, with thatreading and writing aspect as
well.
SPEAKER_02 (18:05):
Yeah, I never I had never thought of it that way.
So I'm I'm glad you went throughall that for those of us who.
Yeah.
UNKNOWN (18:14):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (18:15):
And there's more, and there's even more too.
I can probably talk about thatfor a while, but like there's,
there's even more like that,that, you know, those are, I
think the three that probably, Ithink people are like, oh, okay.
Well, when we actually put it toliteracy.
Okay.
That makes sense.
So.
SPEAKER_02 (18:29):
Yeah.
How about, let me see if I'mpronouncing this right.
Phonological awareness.
Was I close?
Phonological awareness.
Yes.
SPEAKER_01 (18:37):
Yes.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
So this is the brain's abilityto, to separate the sounds of
language from the meaning.
And so when we look at language,language is comprised of a bunch
of sounds.
And then our brain learns thecombination of sounds that it's
(18:58):
hearing and then recognizes whatthat combination of sounds mean
or represents.
So, you know, if I said dog,those three combinations, your
brain goes, oh, dog, and youknow what a dog means.
But you recognize that we canseparate these two.
So phonological awareness, Itell this story often, but I
(19:20):
think it is the best way toreally explain what this means
for children.
When I was like, seven or eightone of my cousins asked me why
are cuss words bad we call themjust cuss words in texas but
like inappropriate words he'slike why are they bad like why
are they and i was like i don'tknow and he goes well if you
(19:42):
think about it you're justsaying a bunch of sounds and so
and and that's showing he waspulling the sound From the
meaning.
Well, the reason cuss words arebad is because the meaning is
very inappropriate.
And so that, that is, you know,but, but that was showing that
separation of, okay, it's reallyjust a bunch of sounds, but, you
(20:06):
know, but recognizing that it'sconnected with a meaning.
So phonological awareness,the...
kind of the culmination of it isphonemic awareness.
So every language has phonemes,which are the smallest unit of
sounds.
And if you think about whenwe're decoding words or we're
spelling, you've got to breakthe words down into the sounds.
(20:29):
So that phonemic awarenessreally and truly is critical for
that reading and writing.
Well, how that develops ischildren need to hear, again,
lots and lots of language, andthey need to have opportunities
to play with the language and toplay around with sound.
So we'll see children, ifthey're playing with puppets,
(20:49):
playing with their voices, ifthey're playing cars or trains
or something of that nature, wesee them bringing in different
sounds like for the train orroom room for the car.
So when they're doing that andthey're doing it repetitively on
their own accord, what it isthey want to play with the brain
starts strengthening theconnections to hear produce
(21:10):
those sounds.
So, and I will say this, whatwe've I know there's a lot of
curriculums that are kind ofgeared towards phonemic
awareness and, you know, I feelwe can maybe bring that in if
we're doing a transitionactivity, but I don't think it
is as effective as childrenplaying and having like that 90
(21:31):
minutes of just playing with thesounds and hearing those sounds
over and over and over again.
And children also are nothearing as much language because
of our devices.
And either they're plugged in orthe adult is distracted.
So I think child play more thanever is so important for this
phonological awareness becauseit can't develop if it's not
(21:54):
being heard.
Right.
All right.
Last one.
Physical
SPEAKER_02 (21:59):
development.
SPEAKER_01 (22:01):
Which is, you know, I kind of talked a little bit
about that earlier on thevestibular and the
proprioceptive systems, themidlines, but our overall, just
our, our, our core development,our muscle development, our
brains and our bodies learningto work as a team.
We utilize this every day.
Yeah.
(22:21):
just you know working or justchildren in the classroom but
when it comes to that thatliteracy especially the
handwriting we think handwritingis just a fine motor um a fine
motor skill but handwritingrequires the entire body to be
developed um so we have a systemknown as mobility on stability
(22:42):
so the mobility of our smallermuscles depend on the next
bigger muscle being developedand stabilized.
So if you look at handwriting,it's not just the fingers
working.
The fingers have to depend onthe hand.
It depends on the wrist thatgoes to the elbow, to the
shoulder, to the neck and thetorso, all that being
stabilized.
(23:03):
and fully developed.
And then again, like I mentionedearlier, then we have that
vestibular system to keep allthat steady.
We have the proprioceptivesystem of the amount of strength
and then that midlinedevelopment.
Uh, so being able to cross themidline.
So all these things that Imentioned, these are not things
that we can teach.
These are things that develop.
(23:24):
We can create environments tohelp foster it.
Um, And we can do, again,musical movements that are
intentional, but it's not thesame as children running around
outside climbing.
Swinging, crawling up the slide,which I know everybody gets all
up in arms about.
But all of that is engaging thisneck and this torso.
It's engaging thatproprioceptive system.
(23:46):
It's engaging that vestibularsystem.
And we really need that to befully developed for children to
be successful when it not onlycomes to reading and writing,
but when it comes to justfunctioning in a classroom.
And I kind of gave this example.
I was doing a trainingyesterday.
I'm like, you know, As adults,let's say that we work out, we
(24:09):
go exercise, and we liftweights, and we kind of isolate
certain muscles.
We're intentional on that.
But let's say we get ready tomove, like we're going to move
houses.
And we have several days thatwe're packing boxes and moving
boxes and unpacking.
And you get to the end of that,and you're like, man, I have
some muscles I didn't knowexisted.
Because they weren't beingutilized.
(24:30):
Yes, and they're hurting.
And you realize, man, thosemuscles are needed for this.
I kind of feel like when I lookat physical development, we can,
again, do some intentionaladult-led things.
And I think it's great.
We have children up and movingand we're guiding them.
That's way better than them justsitting.
But it's not as...
(24:51):
as sufficient or as effective aschildren running around moving,
or even if they're indoorsplaying, just watch how they're
moving every second and reachingacross their body and going up
and down.
And that's really kind ofhelping the brain and the body
not only grow and develop, butlearning to work as a team.
SPEAKER_02 (25:10):
I'm picturing my son when he was a preschooler, he
was constantly on his head onthe couch constantly.
Yeah.
UNKNOWN (25:20):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (25:21):
How and why are you doing that?
But yeah, I
SPEAKER_01 (25:27):
always say that children's brains tell their
bodies what they need and theirbodies and actions are telling
us.
And, you know, we might think,OK, that's a little peculiar.
But if you think about it, he'sengaging that vestibular system.
It's engaging that neck and thatcore.
So, yeah, there is a reasonthere was a need.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (25:48):
Well, thank you so much.
Let's do your, let's get to ourfinal question, which is how can
our listeners create spaces thatpromote child-led learning and
connect all types of play toliteracy development?
Big question.
Lots of fun.
SPEAKER_01 (26:05):
Yes.
I think first of all, we need toappreciate that all play is no
matter what it looks likesupports early literacy.
So when we look at all thosedevelopmental foundations, we
realize that block play,dramatic play, sensory play,
kids digging in sandboxes,outside play, all of those are
(26:25):
help to build those foundationsthat support that early
literacy.
So I think as embracing that andgoing no matter what children
are playing, It's us identifyingand going, okay, it's helping,
you know, with these things, youknow, these developmental
foundations for literacy.
But then as far as theenvironment, if we want children
(26:46):
to be motivated to play, well,let me rephrase that.
Children want to play.
But I think sometimes we worryabout, okay, well, will they
play?
Will they get bored?
Yeah.
On that, our role as the adultis to design an environment that
is centered around the childrenwho are in that environment.
So child-centered doesn't meanlike what's best for every
(27:08):
three-year-old in the universe.
It's what's best for thechildren you're serving.
Is it your children at home orwhether it's the children in
your classroom?
But knowing them, what are theyinterested in?
What are things that they talkabout?
What are things that, you know,When we see them playing that
they're kind of going deeperinto that play and we design the
environment around that insteadof around a theme or around just
(27:31):
a letter of the week.
I mean, children are going toget bored with that if it
doesn't connect to their worlds,but it's okay.
What is it that they want toplay?
And we bring those materials infor that.
And then we need to allow forchunks of time for children to
play.
My recommendation is 90 minutesof uninterrupted time where the
children are completely incontrol of it.
(27:53):
And I will sit till when I wasin the classroom, I found that
that's when most of my behaviorissues released.
Like there was, there was, theywent down.
Make sure I said that clearly.
I had very few challenges whenchildren were playing because
they're in control that's whatthey're seeking and it's that
(28:14):
child-led play who again helpsdevelop that sustained attention
and all these other systemswe're talking about that are
needed for not only literacy butjust in the classroom but that
that that chunk of time theadult steps back as the adult
don't enter unless the childinvites you in or you see the
child about to harm Anotherperson, themselves, or the
(28:35):
environment, if you seesomething critical like that
happen, yes, step in.
But otherwise, stay out of itand just observe and document.
And this helps you go, okay,what do they need more of to
help with their play, you know,going forward?
SPEAKER_02 (28:47):
That's a lot to think about.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But really interesting, too.
Like, 90 minutes.
Like, it seems like it would bea long time, but I could see how
then they're using their brainsand yeah, using that.
It
SPEAKER_01 (29:05):
makes sense.
Yeah.
And it allows them to justreally kind of go deep in their
play and then figuring thingsout.
And that child led repetition isso important and development and
learning because children aretrying to figure things out.
And, you know, and, and, andagain, I kind of come back to
adults don't enter unlessthey're, invited um i i i kind
(29:30):
of think of it like even thoughwe might be watching the play
and go okay you know what ifthey realize they could do it
this way and this might bebetter but i personally don't
like unsolicited advice i likefiguring things out on my own so
you know maybe make a note of itand go okay if i brought maybe
these materials in but let letthe child go forward the way
(29:52):
that they're feeling they needto.
If they need our help, they'llcome ask us.
But otherwise, this is theirplay.
It's about them and thedirection they want to take it.
So we don't need to step inunless they do invite us in.
I
SPEAKER_02 (30:10):
like it.
Well, Stacey, thank you so muchfor your time today.
This was really, reallyinteresting.
And I don't think it's a topicthat gets the attention it
deserves.
So we really appreciate youshining some light on it.
Thank you.
Could you share where ourlisteners could find out more
about you, like website or anyother info or social media,
(30:32):
anything like that?
SPEAKER_01 (30:33):
Yeah.
So my website is stacybinge.com.
S-T-A-C-Y-B-E-N-G-E.
Both my names are alwaysmisspelled.
So I always want to spell that.
So if you go to that, you canconnect with me on social media.
You can link to where to get mybook, but I'm on Instagram and
LinkedIn and Facebook and all myhandles are under my name.
(30:55):
And then my book, The WholeChild Alphabet is published by
Exchange Press.
So you can go toexchangepress.com.
their website and purchase mybook there.
And like I said, on my personalwebsite, I link to all of these
things.
SPEAKER_02 (31:11):
Oh, wonderful.
Well, thanks again.
And thank you to everybody whojoined us today.
We appreciate you so much.
All of you out in ECE, you know,trying to learn new things and
keep your business running andeverything.
So we here at ProCare Solutions,we're always happy to support
you in any way.
(31:31):
And please do visit us atProCareSolutions.com to learn
more about us.
Thank you, Stacey.
And until next time,
SPEAKER_00 (31:38):
goodbye.
Until next time.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.