#117 - Steve Feldman - Author/Recovered Addict

Hello Friends

In this engaging conversation, hosts Chris and Mike discuss various themes surrounding addiction and recovery with guest Steve Feldman. They explore Steve's early life, the impact of family dynamics on his substance use, and the challenges he faced throughout his journey. The discussion highlights the importance of community, support, and personal transformation in overcoming addiction, as well as the lessons learned along the way. Steve's upcoming book, 'The Process,' aims to provide a Christ-centered approach to addiction recovery, emphasizing hope and resilience.

In this conversation, Steve Feldman, Mike, and Chris discuss the journey of recovery from addiction, emphasizing the importance of finding peace, the role of personal growth, and the transformative power of writing. They explore the challenges of relationships affected by addiction, the significance of willingness in recovery, and the introduction of Steve's upcoming book, 'The Process,' which offers a radical approach to recovery through a structured program and personal accountability.

Subscribe and Comment at all our links below.

https://www.youtube.com/@chrisandmikeshow

https://www.facebook.com/chrisandmikeshow

https://www.instagram.com/chrisandmikeshow

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
And we're live now. I will tell you, Mr. Dunham, the
people that are listening on YouTube live, whatever you do to
the music, we can talk over the top of it.
They can hear it. I went I went and listened to
the live version. Yeah.
It's perfect. I just stayed there.

(00:23):
So for sure I wish it worked that way on the export.
There we go. Steve.
Please. Oh, maybe we did.

(00:46):
Go see the machine. Oh, Steve.
Yeah. What?
Steve will be back, Yeah. Little boys and girls, it's the
Chris and Mike show. We're having technical
difficulties. We are, we are having technical
difficulties today. We have a guest named Steve
Feldman that's here, but he disappeared and he'll, I'm sure
he'll come back because you know, that's how it happens when

(01:07):
you're having fun with technology.
Yes. So why we're waiting anxiously
for Steve to return? How are you, Mike?
Well, I'm just getting over being sick, and let me tell you,
when they say summer colds suck,they're not kidding.
I had it for exactly a week. Oh, that is terrible.

(01:28):
Yeah, today's the first day I feel like a halfway human being.
Right on. And it was just like a regular
cold. Nothing.
Nothing crazy. Yeah, one of those stupid upper
respiratory infections. I had no energy though.
It's like every time I get sick now since I had COVID, Yeah.
It just zaps every amount of energy I have in my body for
like 3 days. Four days.

(01:48):
I yeah, I, I can, I can be in touch with that because it
happens when I get colds, too. It's like, what the hell,
Where's this coming from? Yeah.
Can't move. It's crazy.
It's crazy bizarre. I'm a fair weather, feeling good
kind of guy, you know when I don't feel good, I'm a I'm a
typical male. I'm fucking dying.
It's all over because when everyguy gets sick, it's the end of

(02:10):
the world. Is my is all my stuff good?
My volume with everything. You know what?
I I should watch yours better? Yeah, Hello.
Hello. Hello.
You can turn up a little bit. How is that?
That's perfect. All right, so, so friendly
voice. There you go.
So again, we have a guest on theshow, but he he bounced for some

(02:31):
reason, probably technical difficulties and what not.
As I can see us now we're streaming upwards at 96%.
So we're styling. So while we wait for Steve to
come back. So obviously you've you've
you've heard of the flood, right?
That happened in Texas. Unbelievable man, right?
So did you hear, did you hear the story about the one Coast
Guard rescue swimmer that was onscene before anybody and saved

(02:54):
165 people? I just read that article right
before I went to bed last night.Crazy, right?
Talk about being at the right place at the right time, right?
Absolutely and not to I mean everybody who passed away is
tragic. It's you know, senseless, but
Mother Nature something happenedback in like the in the same

(03:14):
area previously because I saw something come up with Peter
Jennings talking about a flood in that Texas area.
So you know the one catch up being having those camps along
Riverside, right? Because you want to have water.
Nick and I talked about you wantto have access to water for all
the fun watery things. That's one of the side effects,
right? You have crazy torrential

(03:35):
downpours. Yeah.
And you, I mean you can't imagine that you're going to
have that's probably a hundred 100,000 year, that's probably
not 1000 year event, you know that probably happens once every
10,000 years. Sure.
Absolutely. Which is insane, yeah.
Look at all the years that thesepeople that are in television
saying I went to that camp and they're in their 40s and 30s

(03:58):
and, you know, generations of kids went to that camp and no
problems. But when it rains a billion
gallons and like what, 24 hours,30 hours, something just a crazy
short amount of time. The Kansas City Chiefs owner
lost a nine year old daughter. Oh, that's terrible.

(04:20):
Yeah, yeah. Which I mean, the one, I mean,
it's, you know, tragedy is tragedy, but that will shine
more light on it because of that, you know, and as far as
people jumping on the bandwagon,like, I saw this thing and I'm.
I'm all about helping people andgiving back, you know, that,
right, The heart's in the right place.
All that kind of jazz. But Blake, Blake Shelton and
Luke Bryan. OK.

(04:40):
They took a photo opportunity inthe back of a truck with all the
supplies. Oh, we're going to do some good.
Like, OK, you do good without the cameras, man, Right.
Because all because all it was was promotion.
All it was was, oh, look at us. I'm Blake Shelton.
I'm Luke Bryan. We're in the back of this pickup
truck and we're going to we're going to take stuff to the to

(05:00):
the folks in dire need. Well, do it without the camera
man, right? So just do it.
Can you hear me? Are we still talking?
Go for it. Yeah, We're still.
We're live, man. We were just waiting for you to
come back. So we were talking about the
tragedy that happened in Texas and.
We. Referenced the, the, that rescue
swimmer from the Coast Guard that, that pulled 160 people to
safety, 165 people to safety. Amazing.

(05:21):
And then, right. And then I brought the fact that
Blake Shelton and Luke Bryan dida photo op in the in the back of
a truck, like, OK, give to give,man, don't give to sell records.
Because that's how that comes across to me.
Me look. At us, real people look.
At us, right? Right.
Real people in the in the in thepit doing it, man.
Exactly, they're the one like that Coast Guard guy being the

(05:44):
first one on scene that that dude deserves the ACT, but he's
just doing his job. But still that's, you know, 165
souls. I mean that that dude can do no
wrong for Oh my. God.
Man, you can't. No, I bet he gets a lot of
Christmas cards. I bet.
Yeah. Free dinners.
You know, tacos. So again, this is that we just

(06:05):
this will kind of start how we usually start.
Hey, this is a Chris and Mike show.
We're streaming right now live on YouTube and Twitch.
We have Steve Feldman as our guest.
So Steve, give us a little elevator spiel about who you
are, what you're all about. So we know how we're going to
dive into this conversation because it's always real, raw,
and relevant. Well, man, well, this is
awesome. I appreciate you guys allowing
me to get on here man. And.

(06:27):
Very nice to meet you. Thanks for coming on.
Yeah, nice to meet you guys as well.
So yeah, I'm just starting this journey, man, fulfilling my
purpose of helping people free themselves, their lives up from
addiction and and hopefully bringing them closer to Christ.
That's my that's the plan. And for me, I started out at a

(06:52):
young age, what I had I thought was a normal family.
And I'm the youngest of four, anolder brother and two older
sisters. And when I was very young, like
12, I had back surgery. I had a slip vertebrae from
playing baseball and that put meout of Commission for a whole

(07:12):
summer. I had a full body cast, whatnot.
And but once I went back to school, I had to wear this this
body brace. Ohh yeah, you know, and.
I I've seen though, yeah, well, your legs were kind of out, like
you kind of walked funny with your legs.
No, no. That was no 'cause I had, I had.

(07:32):
Straight up and down kind. OK, 'cause I had a, I had a,
yeah, I had a friend in, in elementary school.
He fell off the monkey bars and then something happened with his
spine. So he had this weird little get
up where it was like like it wasthe torso but his he had to walk
like. That I know what you mean, man.
Yeah. OK, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's why
I asked. Yeah, yeah, because.
We like to get a visual for the people that are.
Sure, man. Yeah.

(07:53):
Watching and listening. So OK, so body cast.
Yeah, it was just a little thin,thin plastic urethane thing, you
know, my waist up to my chest. But man, I had AI felt
embarrassed. I would wear, you know, a vest
or a jacket. And yeah, so I kind of just at
that point, I gravitated towardsa different crowd of people.

(08:15):
You know, when I was at that point after the surgery and all
that had happened. And, you know, my I, I was the
youngest. So my brother and sisters had
boyfriends and my parents were very social.
So my mom was an alcoholic and my dad didn't drink.
So that created a lot of riff inthe home in itself?

(08:39):
Of itself, sure. So you're so you're 12 when you
had the surgery and then so you mentioned your siblings had
boyfriends and girlfriends. So what's the age gap?
Well my brother is like 5 years older than I am and then 7-8
years sisters OK. So so you were legit the baby
like you were were you a whoops,Steve?
Were you like having another one?

(09:00):
They never said it like that. They said I was their favorite.
Right on. I don't know man.
That's what I tell my son. You're my favorite son and my
daughter's like what I'm like. Well, you're my favorite
daughter's guy, so. One in one, right?
Yeah. Buddy, it's away, man.
Yeah, So, yeah, man. So that's it.
My I So my, my. I saw a lot of partying with my

(09:21):
sister's boyfriends and they introduced me to a joint when I
was 12 and I thought it was the coolest thing ever.
And there was drinking, always going on booze in the house.
And so you know, my first drug and drink was at 12.
So, so this is going to be fun. You're not the youngest one.
We had a guy on the show that his first experience with pot

(09:44):
was when he was 6. Come on.
Hippie. Hippie.
Like he posted a picture. Yeah, hippie.
Parents. Yeah, hippie parents.
And then he gets pulled from that and goes polar opposite to
like an evangelical Midwest Bible thumping in Minnesota.
In Minnesota, we. Went from California to
Minnesota. In the In the Time of the

(10:05):
hippies man. And this is a friend of Chris's,
so we know that this is a true story.
Yeah, yeah, this is just. Some guy that we didn't know.
This is an actual friend of Chris's.
He's known for years and we didn't know that we're both.
Holy crap, six years. Old Yeah, man.
So. So you're the second youngest at
12. Congratulations. 12, man,
Appreciate it. Yeah.
Wow. Yeah, 1212's bad enough, right?

(10:28):
OK, so we're partying, we're drinking.
We got introduced to pot and beer when we were 12.
There's all kinds of parties going on around you with the
older siblings and you know, pick it up from there.
Yeah, so my parents, they're hard workers, man.
Just just multiple jobs, entrepreneurial spirited, you
know, they, we had a little ice cream store, nice little corner

(10:50):
store, pizza place and stuff andmy family is was very deep into
bowling. OK, all right.
We're all bowlers so and. Where are you from?
From originally Rochester, NY and now I'm in, I'm near
Syracuse, NY right now. I took 20 years in Pennsylvania,

(11:11):
had a bowling center and stuff there.
But so you know, we are always into bowling and bowling is
drinking and and having fun and right so we, my parents got
asked to manage a bowling centerin Rochester, NY and not a
bowling center. It was like in a Moose club.

(11:31):
It was a little downstairs placethey, you know, so they, they
enjoyed it, but there was a bar in there.
And so I was able to continue sneaking things around at a very
young age and. And for those that aren't
familiar, Moose lodges were private clubs so you can get
away with murder in those places.

(11:51):
They gambled, they drank pokers and blah, whatever.
Pokers and blah. Probably a lot of that went on.
Two boats. Boats.
And. Boats.
It depends on the age demographic of the people who
were frequenting the Moose Lodge.
It sounds like his was a youngercrowd.
Ours was an older crowd, so OK, not a lot of that.
Going on. So not a lot of not a lot of

(12:12):
like Eyes Wide Shut stuff going on, just.
It was an it was an older crowd to, you know, to start out.
OK. I appreciate that, Mike,
clarifying that for Chris, man. But yeah, so that that was our
start to the bowling business and they turn that around and

(12:33):
really enjoyed it. So a couple, two, couple years
in, you know, they wanted to take it further by their own
bowling center. So we packed up and went to
Skinny Atlas New York, which is outside.
That's Skinny Atlas. Skinny Atlas.
Yeah, that's a legit name. Yeah, it's a, it's a sweet
little town, little resort that's cool, beautiful lake,

(12:56):
cool. And so we moved there and I was.
And before I moved there, I was fortunate enough to have a, a
family member turn me on to cocaine.
Oh, yeah. So that was at 16.
Fortunate. OK.
So now that's the youngest we'vehad somebody come on that has
had cocaine because I don't knowanybody else that's had cocaine
at such a young age. Yeah.

(13:16):
So, and it was. The cocaine from Cuba or was it
Colombia? Colombia.
Bam bam. I think that was City City Coke.
But it it was. It was a it was AI just thought
everything was fun, man. You know, I was young and more.
Likely so. And so the, and then I was got,
we got submerged into a fun industry and the bowling and the

(13:42):
bar business. So we moved to Skinny Atlas and
I'm the new guy in town and I don't think I have any problems.
You know, I think everything's great.
And so we have a center there and that just continued on.
And I was, it was my senior yearof high school.

(14:02):
I moved there and you know, shortly thereafter in my first
marriage. I've got kids, I'm 20.
Right, right, right out of high school, right out.
Did you go to? College, I didn't go to college.
I I did, I did for about 3 months yeah.
OK. And that was that was the end of
that. I I was in the business world

(14:23):
and OK, so. So how how young were you when
you got married? I was just turned 20, OK, and.
When you graduated high school, how old were you?
18. OK cool, so you had a 2.
Year little party have. Fun, yeah.
Yeah, OK. Yeah, and it just continued on.
I had two kids, one right immediately and then another 1-4

(14:45):
years down the road. 2 boys and.Still in contact with them
today. Yes, yeah, yeah.
Cool. Yep, they're, yeah, they're
they're in my dedication, in my book, the.
Oh, good. Yeah, right up.
It's, it's a book, but it's alsoa complete, it's more of a, it's
a complete Christ centered addiction recovery program.

(15:08):
All right. And it's it's called the process
and that's set to release in September.
Nice. Awesome.
So that's congratulations, thankyou.
Appreciate that man. I'm I'm excited so.
And I know what kind of hard work goes into that much, you
know, writing a book, what Chriswill tell you, he's done it.
But any kind of artist just knows what amount of work goes

(15:32):
into that. And I appreciate what you did.
And to sit here and be able to say that you completed it and
it's being released, that's a huge accomplishment.
I appreciate that man. It's thank you for that.
It's like I don't even consider myself an author, a writer, to
be honest, the way that all cameout and happened because I, I
mean, I don't know your experience, Chris, but I mean,

(15:53):
for me, writing, I hated school.I hated writing and how this
thing went down was pretty was atestament to to God and
everything to begin with. That's good, but I just I I
wanted to be a writer when I grew up.
So when I was going to college, I went for journalism and then,
you know, did that for a while and realized you don't make any

(16:14):
money being a journalist. And like any, you know, the
journalist, I just transferred to major to from journalism to
theater because, you know, both are such, you know, guaranteed
successful industries. But that and then so then I
realized that it later that the the acting and the writing all
kind of came to a head when I put it with music, because then

(16:37):
it just it sufficed all of that because I was a different person
when I stepped on stage than I was walking around, you know,
chilling out and stuff. So but that's so when I would.
So I've just always been a writer since senior year in high
school. All I've done is write, you
know, is that. Is that what you do?
No, I sell houses. I'm real estate guy.

(16:57):
You are the real estate guy. Yeah, what?
Arizona trademarked everything. Wow.
That's very cool there. You go.
I thought I saw that on your on your site, man.
Yeah, I thought it was just something.
You threw out there. That's how we knew each other.
Yeah, Mike and I were at a unbeknownst to either one of us,
we were at the candle candle boxshow and and he was in front of
me. I was behind him and I was

(17:18):
singing along to the the singer and I this long haired creepy
dude, you know, Mike kept turning around and looking back
at me. And so finally, about the third
or fourth time I'm like, this motherfucker's like mad at me.
He's going to try to kick my assfrom and then half the stage
power goes out and he turns around again.
I'm like really bust out a business card.
I'm in a band looking for a singer.
You say that. I was like, come on.

(17:39):
Man, yeah. I totally forgot that part of
the story. I did.
I remember asking him if he was a singer, but he's like, no, he
had a business card and everything.
Yeah, now he whipped it out likeDesperate Angel was the name of
the band at the time, had his name and his and the phone
number on there and you know, you know, and 30 some odd years
later, we're still friends and you know. 30 years later.

(18:00):
Wow man 909394 ish Somewhere around there.
We were old, the 90s in the HardRock world.
As far as Santa. Was concerned.
Oh, yeah, yeah, we were. Yeah.
It was good. It was a good time.
But that's how we kind of met. And that's, you know, so the
song you heard in the beginning,that was us.
That was our song. Freeman.
No kidding. Man, that is cool.

(18:21):
Yeah, awesome man. So let's go back to Steve's.
Do you have a, we have a book coming out called The Process,
which is it was Christ, Christ centric about recovery of
addiction. Mike and I are both recovering
addicts. I'm over 20 years sober.
Mike, we think we decided about 15 or so, 15 to 18 somewhere.
In there. Awesome man.
Plus for sure. Yeah, yeah.
So, yeah, that's why we love having people like you on the

(18:42):
show because it it shows there'sanother side to being an addict,
right? There's a recovery aspect and
then there's we've had people onthat actually have the one that
smoked a joint when he was six. He actually is now.
I don't want to say counselor, but he's he works in depth with
addicts and helped him recovery and stuff.
Just kind of dead what you did. He hasn't written a book yet,
although I told him I dude, you should write a book if if when

(19:06):
you get a chance. He's the the show we did was
Mike Larose. It's one of our our other ones
on the on the thing. You think you would dig his
story considering the. Third, most listened to episode
only behind the beginning and the second one for obvious
reasons, you. Know I saw it.
I was just scrolling those yesterday and I'm.
Definitely listening to his you'll.
Enjoy it. Yeah, I will.

(19:26):
Yeah, so let's talk, let's go back to I want to, I want to
find out what your, what your moment was.
Because like for me, you know, as an alcoholic, oh, I'm fine,
I'm fine, I'm fine. And then my wife and I had this
big blow up and then in which wenever argued and then we still
don't argue to this day. We've been together 3030, almost
32 years now. But I woke up the next day and I
was like, I just, I felt like something had to change.

(19:47):
So that was my thing. Was that the day before this
wrong blown, you know, drawn out3/4 hour argument?
So the next day I'm like, OK, that's when I googled a A and I
started my process and, and thatstuff.
So what was it that we left off your story with your married,
you had two kids, you're 20 years old, right out of a couple
years out of high school. So pick it up from there because

(20:07):
I want to know the, the what wasthe catalyst that made you shift
your mindset and you're thinkingfrom where you work to where you
are now? Yeah, that's, it's a great
question. And and I'm as I'm starting this
journey of having to speak and talk about it, I just threw
myself out here literally in thelast 30 days of putting myself

(20:29):
on podcast, just starting to talk about the the the process.
And so, you know, and that question is, I don't have a
where somebody says, yeah, back in 2011, you know, something
happened. There was an accident or this or
that. I I was tied up for 35 years in

(20:52):
addiction. So in and out, in and out.
How old are you now? I'm 59.
OK. So we started so, so, so we
starting your journey at 12? Yeah.
Is that where we think? OK, so 12 years old, 35 years of
just gotcha go on. So you know it's.

(21:12):
You know, thinking you got it, you know, I mean, I, you know,
of, of, you know, sobriety from three months to six months to
six years, three years and goingback, you know, so it's, it was
probably three years ago that, you know, because I am a

(21:32):
Christian, I was all, I, I came,went all in with Christ and I
met who's going to be my future wife here in the next next
month. So, and I commend you on 30
years, man. I don't have that with my first
3 marriages combined. So yeah, you're doing good, man.
I'm still at 0 so. OK, so 3, so 3 marriages.

(21:55):
So how long did the first one last?
That was 12 years. OK.
And then was was the addiction? Was that the final straw it?
Was just part of it, you know, and just yeah, immaturity, the
first marriage for sure, you know, and you know, I, I went
through many, many years withoutthinking.
I really had a problem. And so I've had to do a lot of

(22:16):
looking back, man, and trying toput it together.
I didn't want to. Look back years.
Oh, I bet. For sure, I would say the first
five years are still a blur, youknow, because I was trying to
figure my life out again. So I I appreciate that.
Was your first wife an addict with.
You no or no, no, no, no. We drank together.

(22:37):
You know, that was that was enough to do together.
But I hit it pretty well. And really at the end of that,
it wasn't even, I wasn't even full blown.
It's just there was just an accumulation of things for, for
the first marriage, you know, just a man being very immature.

(22:59):
I mean, right? So well, yeah, I mean starting
out at 20 for sure. Like my wife and I got married.
I was 25, she was 20. So I I get the immaturity and
and you have to grow with that. So obviously I wasn't an
alcoholic the entire time we were together.
It more So what am I 20 now? We've been get 32.
It was like, it was like the 9thand 10th year where it just kind

(23:21):
of started, you know, building up.
And then I just, you know, I couldn't, my by the last six
months was probably terrible, but I wasn't, and I always point
this out, I wasn't physically orabusive things like that.
I just, I just emotionally wasn't there, right?
I just, I went physically, I didmy, I did my job, I paid the
bills, I provided, but there wasno emotional connection.

(23:42):
The booze had got in the way of all that.
So with your with your addiction, I don't think we
touched on that. Was it, was it alcohol, was it,
was it coke, was it pot? Was it accumulation of all
three? You know, I kind of went up the
ladder with it all and it was definitely once I moved to
Skinny Atlas, the cocaine reallygot more and more and the

(24:03):
drinking was always there. You know, I'm, I've, I'm like
just over 2 years with no drinks, all right.
And before that, in the last 30 years, I don't think I went more
than six months without a drink.So I mean, everything dropped

(24:25):
and like in the last three years, everything just
dramatically changed. But.
And you don't, you don't have a,you don't have a reason why it
just changed. It just changed.
You just woke up one day and waslike.
Just a long process that that that God brought me through,
took me through and and then, you know, I think the my future

(24:46):
wife here is, was played a big part in this because she was a
solid Christ follower herself. And, and, and God had spoke to
me a couple times and said some things, you know, along the way,
man, that were very impactful for me.
And you know, so yeah, definitely three years ago was

(25:10):
like, OK, this is it. You're you don't have any more
opportunities. So yeah, it's no no one time
event for me. OK, OK, yeah, I mean, not
everybody has one, but I I'm just one of those things.
I always, I always ask because it's it's it's always
interesting, interesting to havethe response because like Mike
didn't have a one time thing, you know, Mike was accumulation.

(25:32):
Our friend Mike that the six year old smoking pot, his was an
accumulation. He had to go through so many
different levels of hell yes to get to the point to where it's
like, oh, you know, so I get that.
So that was that's why I asked the question that there's no
wrong answers. What I'm?
Getting yeah, yeah, so. And here's the other thing.
So yeah, the cocaine ramped up and and then eventually that

(25:52):
turned into crack. Oh yeah, yeah.
And so. That was a dark path that now
so. That's a dark path.
So 12 years of the first wife divorce.
How long does it take you to getmarried to the next one?
A couple years, couple years andthat went.
She a party or two? No, she drank.
OK, OK. And that one went 10 years.

(26:15):
And yeah, the alcohol, the drugsand the alcohol just all played
a part. And you know, and that at this
point, I, I, I guess I didn't tell you, is I'm just shooting
from the hip. No, that's which is what we
like, man. So we.
That's why we do this in Skinny Island 2000.

(26:35):
We wanted to expand. And so I ended up, we bought a
bowling center in Bradford, PA, and I moved there.
And so I had that place for about 20 years and, you know,
once again I was having problems, but I was able to move

(26:56):
and leave the area. And this was out of Skinny
Atlas. And that was the end of my first
marriage breaking off. So kind of like a fresh start in
Bedford. Yeah, Bradford, Yeah, home of
Zippo lighters. OK, see my wife's in
Punxsutawney. OK.
Yeah, right down the road, man. OK, you guys are close.

(27:17):
Yeah. Zip Zippo and Zippo and
Punxsutawney Phil. Yeah, we got to get a commercial
with with punk science though, like the Zippo man that.
Would be classic. Oh my God.
Did your bowling centers come with the same clientele that a
lot of bowling centers come within that not the greatest people
hang out there? Well, you just, it's your party.

(27:39):
That's that's what it is. I mean, that's what I'm asking.
Yes, absolutely. You didn't have the PBA coming
through your particular bowling center is what I'm saying
there's. Well, I have.
There's the yeah, yeah. My niece was the best woman
bowler in the world for a few years.
Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So that was cool. So you guys just didn't do the

(28:00):
coke and drink and so heavy on the nights that the PBA was
there? Right, right.
You know how to do. We had.
A bowling. We had a bowling alley in my
town. I'm super familiar with the kind
of people that hang out in the bowling alley.
On a regular basis, right. And I mean, and that's man, I
mean so many good times and so many good people.

(28:20):
But you know, when the when the doors are locked, I'm staying
and there's a group of us staying and, and, but you know.
That's what I'm asking. Yeah, yeah, you, you nailed it.
Yeah, Mike, for sure. But yeah, it got worse.
You know, with the with the crack, it got really bad.
I mean, I did that for 1515 years and it was pretty

(28:42):
destructive. Lost relationships, lost
businesses, marriages, and. And in the meantime, I'm into
outpatient programs, a A and a Celebrate Recovery therapist,
pastors, interventions, and. You said you went about six

(29:03):
months at best at a time. Without alcohol, but the drugs I
I had 1-6 year Sprint, but I wasdrinking during that time.
But I I thought I had it, thought I had it all figured out
then. Yeah, so.
Well, don't we all? Every attic has it figured out,
man. I don't have a problem.
What are you talking about? I can stop.
Whenever. I guess it's all under control,

(29:24):
yeah. Yeah, I don't.
I'm not that Jack isn't. I don't touch that Jack in the
freezer as I just keep dealing with the water.
You know, it's you know, it's. Look, it's still full, honey.
Oh my God, I don't. Have a part now it's fine,
right? Then you have a part and you put
all these on the site. We had this citrus sky vodka
that was flavored is fantastic right on the bottle.
So we had this party and we pulled all the the booze out of

(29:45):
the freezer and and they couldn't understand why it's a
big chunk of ice in the sky vodka.
This guy you guys are and I think you're being smart and
they're like, I knew it's like once I got sober and sober Chris
could be talked to, right? I don't know if this would
relates with you, but then all of a sudden you can have these
rational conversations with yourwith your, you know, your future

(30:07):
wife, with mine, with my wife. And then she realized, Oh, sober
Chris can be talked to. He listens.
He can, you know, he doesn't just fly off the handle and snap
it little things. He just like.
Oh, and then you start talking about all the things that you
know where how I hid the bottle of Jack in a brown bag behind a
bag. Ice.
There. And she worked at an Applebee's

(30:29):
in the same complex as a Walgreens.
So I would go up to when I ran out because it was all Surface
St. I'd take Jake, my son, put him
in the truck, go get a, you know, an 18 pack and a bottle of
Jack. And then she'd come over for a
break from Walgreens, from Applebee's because they all knew
each other, right? And all your husband was here.
Oh, really? What was he doing?
You know a case of beer and a bottle of Jack and had your son

(30:50):
in the. You know my God.
Reese's Peanut Butter Cups. You know this is like 6 o'clock
7:00 at night. You know so, but you don't know
that stuff. You don't know the eyes and the
different people that see you asyou're doing these things.
You think of being all slick andshit and it's just like, yeah,
everybody. And I would say that holds true
for every addict. And they don't know it.
You don't know that you're completely irrational all the

(31:13):
time, right? And everybody else can see it
because they're sober, right? Yeah.
I know I that I think about, youknow, and I was always had
businesses, so I was always in the public eye and, and, and,
and that was another part of my problem.
I had to put on this facade all the time and life is good.

(31:33):
I've got a, you know, a nice wife.
I've got homes, I've got cars and, and boats and everything
looks amazing and I'm a wreck for many years.
But yeah, that perception, I remember I've weighed as much as
like 220 in the past and and. How tall are you?
511. And what about the same height

(31:56):
then? Yeah.
Yeah, and I remember at one point when I was down to 170 and
I remember justifying it in my own mind because I had, I was in
my own business, you know, with my pants, the belt, the belts
tightened about 7 loops out. And I'm trying to wear the right
clothes. I'm thinking nobody knows.
Everybody knows, man. Everybody knows what you're
doing. It's a joke when?

(32:16):
I moved back here in 2009. I was 128 lbs.
Oh. My God, how tall are you, Mike?
59. Right, right.
Yeah. See when I at the height of my
drink and I was about 1:50. 5 now just so, yeah.
Yeah, yeah, my height was 224 and then I'm I'm around one
75178 depending on the day. Now am I at my when when working

(32:39):
out became my new addiction, then I my lowest I got was 166,
but it was just lean, you know, as lean.
I wasn't I wasn't on a crack cocaine diet.
So here's why I bring that up. Five 11170 lbs is is legit as
far as you know, height to weight ratios, things like that.
If it's done healthy. Oh.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You were a kid, man.

(32:59):
You wouldn't have told me that anything different back then.
I believed. Now, now during your during your
journey of of addiction with thecars, the houses, the boats,
things like that, did you ever get DUI?
Did you ever get in trouble withthe law?
Per SE. I mean, it's one of the
blessings, man, how how I stayedaway from the law.
I mean, you know, I had a DUI when I was young, but you know,

(33:22):
when I was 17, you know, that was just driving into somebody's
house. It wasn't a big thing, but.
You drove into their house. Yeah, yeah.
Crashed right into their house, Yeah.
Into their house. It wasn't a big thing.
Yeah, put a whole stand anyway. Yeah, it, it wasn't, but, but
that was, that was the younger days.
But, you know, All in all, man, just carrying it on, you know,

(33:46):
into my 50s, man. So I have a message for the
young people too, you know, it'sjust just don't take it into
your 20s, man. Don't take it into your 30s.
Don't take it into your 40s. I mean, I, you got to see it
around. I mean, it's everywhere, man.
It's in my own family here. The, the addiction is rampant,
man. And it's, it's just it, it

(34:07):
sickens me. And I want to help people, man.
I was either fortunate or unfortunate that I knew I was
going to die. Wow.
So I was 35. And what were you doing?
Just drinking. Oh, no.
I did pretty much everything youcould ever imagine.
I mean, I was a musician, you know, it just, it found its way

(34:29):
to me. I didn't, you know, seek it out
or I wasn't ever buying it. It just, it always was around,
you know, no matter where you'reat.
It is if you're looking for that, right?
For sure. Like you got addicted to crack
Around the time that I was in my30s in Phoenix, meth was super

(34:50):
popular because it was coming upfrom Mexico, right?
It was dirt cheap and it was easy to find, so I can say
safely that that's the only drugI've ever done that I did for
the next 3 1/2 years straight asoften as I could, right?
Yeah. Brutal.
Yeah, it's the same as crack. It's just that high is so

(35:12):
intense and euphoric, you just never want it to end.
Yeah, man. And that was part of my it's,
it's amazing, man, that, that I'm here today with a clean bill
of health with you, man, stayed out of jail.
That we have our faculties. That was mine.
I was suffering from psychosis, something terrible, and I

(35:34):
thought I was going to have to live the rest of my life that
way so to have Peace of Mind again.
Yeah, like in. General right where I can lay my
head down at night. I don't hear anything except my
own thoughts. You nailed it, man.
Fantastic. It's the keyword peace.
You know, that's what people areafter.
And yeah, that's, that's awesome, man.

(35:57):
Good for you from breaking free,you know.
Thank you. And I'm always careful to remind
the people in my life when I'm adifficult individual.
I'm protecting my Peace of Mind that's.
Yeah, I won't compromise it today.
No, I can't. You can't, Chris can't because
we wouldn't be who we are today without it, right?
So agree. So, so so you moved to

(36:20):
Pennsylvania, open another bowling center.
You're you're the talk of the town.
You got, you got the keys in thein the bling and you know the
shoots and you know, and like, look at me, I'm Steve.
And then you're. Married again.
Married again. Children with the second
marriage. She had some children, OK.
But none that you had to get. None there.
OK. And.
And then how long did that one lasted?
Ten. It was 10 years.
Yeah, yeah. So you're what?

(36:42):
If I do my math right, you were 20 to 32, then about 34 to 40.
Four. Yeah, Yep.
OK, sounds about right. I can do.
I can count. So now you're, you're 59.
So you're, you're, you've been single now this entire time
because you referenced future wife.
No. So three years ago, you met this
woman. We got done in about 2016

(37:03):
actually. Okay, okay.
Yeah, that's when that ended. I got to think of my my time
frames man. You're OK.
Yeah. So was was was the was, did it
just kind of run its course as the first one did in your mind
or was the addiction kind of hada plan?
Well, it just it was a the addiction definitely did.
There was I think further back Iwould I would discount that the

(37:25):
drinking played a part or the addiction, but it was it was in
it all and and you know, even when you got the time outs that
were you're clean for a while. It's and you're still trying to
figure things out and it's stillpart of the problem.
And it was definitely it, it created more problems and then

(37:48):
and then it just, it, it got into a big, a big mess of a
relationship, you know, infidelity and the whole 9 and
just a lot of lessons to be. Learned through a You're in your
30s forties at this point, yeah.40s. 30s because it was yeah,
yeah, OK. 40s yeah, yeah. A lot of character building.

(38:10):
Oh my God, man. That's what I call that when,
when, when God's checking you, it's character building.
It's true story, Chris. Yeah, this is what it is, man.
He's still still working it today, man.
Yep, it's. It's been a every.
Every, every step in life is just a rung on that ladder as
you keep climbing towards the ultimate goal, whatever that may
be. Yeah, So, yeah, that was so,

(38:34):
yeah. The, the drugs and alcohol are
just, they're infiltrated, you know, through my, through
everything in life. It's part of it all, man.
I yeah, it's, yeah, I look back,man.
And, and there was just the roads I took in different
business opportunities that didn't go.
And I thought, you know, oh, that's what I was going to say,

(38:55):
you know, I had money because you're talking about the bling
and this and that. I mean, it wasn't loaded or
anything, but you know, we had, we were good and you're
comfortable, very comfortable. And so I didn't, it wasn't the
typical, you know, maybe an addict that doesn't have much.
And you know, I, I, I did a lot because I had money and that it

(39:16):
was my God. And it's, and it was, I just
thought it could always, always save me.
It could always Get Me Out of something, and it took God had
to drain me of every penny twice.
So there was, so there was there.
So there was some type of momentthat happened.
Well, a lot, you know, over 35 years, you know, a lot of a lot

(39:40):
of moments where I didn't listen.
Right. Yeah, most people don't.
I like to call him a lot of rockbottoms, yeah.
Well, you got, you just got really loud.
Yeah, he did. What happened there?
You got a fan on, man. Yeah.
What's up Mike? It.
Is really loud. Something happened.

(40:01):
Remember that, Remember that? What was it?
Is it live or is it Memorex commercial with the guy in the
chair and the hair? So let's talk a little bit about
let's talk a little bit about the book.
It's called the process. And you, since you're not a
writer, did you just kind of allof a sudden one day start having

(40:23):
the idea? I'm going to put pen to paper
and put my thoughts down. It's kind of how it happened.
Yeah. It, you know, it was just
sitting down one day and literally I'm just like, wow,
man, everything in life's a process.
Everything, everything is a process.
And then it's like bam, PR and you know, because I've been

(40:48):
through so many recovery programs, I'm like, OK, and I
started putting scriptures with each letter and I and I it just,
it just started to go and I'm a guy that will not like I can't
sit at a computer man for an hour would be a long stretch

(41:08):
and. Most, most addicts are ADHD.
So you know, squirrel, squirrel,squirrel, squirrel, squirrel,
right? And that's why a lot of them
chase that because that puts that makes their brain shut up
and then they can focus on something.
Where's those that you know, that's, I mean, you think about
it, I don't know the stats, but a lot of addicts are somehow
have attention deficit on some level because, you know, they

(41:32):
just do. They're trying to, they're
trying to self medicate. That's what we're trying to self
medicate. We had some in our family that
that went down the path of meth and heroin, things like that.
And it and truly became a point of trying to feel normal because
nothing they did would feel normal.
So once they started experimenting with the drugs,
that would give them some sense of normalcy, even though it was
so they didn't realize it. But that's that's what.

(41:55):
And then that becomes you just chasing with the heroin part of
it, you were just chasing the needle.
You weren't chasing the high anymore.
They were chasing the needle just when it pierced your vein.
Am I going to live this time or am I going to die this time?
You know, OD this time. That's the freaky thing about
the heroin and stuff. At least from what I've had my
vantage point, I've never done any more than worse than pot.

(42:16):
I'm the boring one. Here.
Oh yeah. No, you're the smart one.
The smart one. So let's I want to, I want to
kind of die. I don't want you to give up the,
the, the contents. I don't want you to share too
much about the book because we want people to go buy your book.
But I want you to kind of talk about a little bit about what it
is. I got to turn this point off.

(42:40):
Talk a little bit about, you know, you kind of said it's
Christ centric, which is cool. So you have a lot of scripture
and stuff involved with it. So you're taking all your
knowledge and experience with all the different recovery
outlets you did and kind of putting it all in one thing.
OK, cool. Yeah, that's cool.
Yeah. So I mean, even what you did say
about the writing, I just want to throw out there because I.

(43:02):
Yeah, absolutely. It all, I mean, and suddenly I
was, and it's part of my story is that the Holy Spirit just
totally took over and just told me where to go with this and
what to do. And I was writing 810 hours a
day. I mean, I mean, it was crazy,
man. I'm, I'm like to know myself to

(43:27):
think that that could be happening like that with just, I
look back and I'm like, well, itjust wasn't me, man.
I was guided because. You were the vessel.
I don't know. I was the vessel.
That's why that makes right. That's how I mean like Mike and
I have talked about it that, youknow, when I write a song, it's
I could be sitting here doing nothing and all of a sudden a

(43:48):
line comes in my head and boom, two in a fire.
There's there's you know, an entire lyric of of two rounds,
one there. Mike's the same way Mike will
will, you know, he'll be tuning around on his guitar all of a
sudden. Here's a riff.
It's it's the muse. It's it's, you know, you know
my. That's why I don't take any
credit for. It right?
Literally, I pull it out of the universe, right?

(44:09):
Yeah, it's just. If somebody asked us if we were
good, we just give them tickets to our show.
Come see. US play exactly.
You let us know we we played stuff that made us happy, that
we would want to hear on the radio.
Or. On ACD or whatever.
But beyond that, I mean, we did it because we enjoyed it.
You know, we weren't looking foranything more than that to write

(44:30):
a great song, you know, something that made us want to
move. And I agree with what you're
saying in that you become a vehicle when you're that close
to any kind of art. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, like you said, I think it's really cool because you
don't like, I don't. I have a this, all of this

(44:51):
happening created my purpose. And it's, it's just, it's lit up
my life and it's. And so I, you know, I, I, I envy
people that play music and can sing, right, because, you know,
it's a gift, man, because, you know, if you don't have it,
that's for sure. Oh, absolutely.
You know, so it's, you get led to, like you said, just all of a

(45:14):
sudden things start coming to mind and things come together,
things get aligned and you're like, oh, this is this is good.
Right, so the book's called the process.
Is it a step by step thing or isit just more of a first person?
This is my journey. These are the things that that
worked for me or things that didn't work for me.
Give us a little in in depth on.That, well, I, it's a, it's a,

(45:34):
it's AI, call it a radical approach to recovery and it's
blending biblical principles with science and manifestation
techniques, right. So I've never heard that.
It's, I believe it's, I don't believe it's been out there.
I think it's going to be a movement throughout the world,

(45:56):
to be quite honest, man. So it's we start with the end in
mind. All right, and we can I talk
about creating and being your future, your 90.
It's a 90 day program and it's 7steps with along with the
letters, the process. And it's, it's I blend biblical

(46:19):
principles with scientific research that backs up the the
manifestation and creating your future self right out of the
gate. We set the picture, we draw the
vision and we work from that person, that place instead of to
it. So it's a complete paradigm

(46:41):
shift of the way you think aboutrecovery.
That's. All what?
What's your time frame? Or the way you just described
it, it would be different for everyone, right?
Yeah, for sure, it could be. I mean, it's designed as a 90
day, but I mean, everyone's walkis different.
And yeah, it's. It could it.

(47:01):
So you do have a time frame set up to where somebody could go
from being at their worst, whichall three of us have been there
to if you followed this program,you're saying in three months
you should be on your way to recovery.
You have a should form. Yes, exactly.
Everything's everything. 'S.
I'm thinking right. I think when you say 90 days I
automatically went in my head to75 hard.

(47:23):
Right, the workout. Thing that I've done a couple of
times where it's, but it's, it'sdiscipline and and the more, the
more habit you do on a consistent basis because
consistency wins. That's what that's the concept
of it. That's the habit.
You're you're breaking the old habit and create and replacing a
new habit. Repetition is the mother of all
skills. Exactly.
And discipline and consistency, you know, and, and I believe in,

(47:45):
in this 90 day program that your, your life will be
completely transformed and, and,and it doesn't mean it's all
fixed and anything like that, but if you follow the plan,
you're going to be in a good place, man.
That's cool, I like that. Yeah, that's absolutely.
And, and one of the nice, the unique things that I've created

(48:07):
with it is that when you buy thebook, the program is that
because it is, it's steps with along with the letters, right?
And I, I give two weeks per stepto, to work things.
And, and I, I have a series of YouTube videos that I've created

(48:27):
that you get with the book. So I that I'm walking you
through the book itself, you know, every bit of it.
And I'm, you know, saying this is this is it, this is what you
should be doing. This is where you should be, how
you should be feeling. What an addict would kind of
mindset here. I've got all these these things
that can help you just kind of understand it.

(48:48):
If it's, if it's one person that's picks this book up and
goes through it themselves with within the county, one
accountability person and, and God, they can do it.
And so I kind of walk them through the whole book and they
can look at the videos, you know?
Is is the book kind of like a workbook?

(49:08):
Yes, there's a lot of questions in each, in each step to to ask
yourself. And yeah, it's a, it's a full
blown program. And it's so, and it's full hands
on. Yes, it's, it's pretty different
man, but I'm excited. Now here's a question for you.
So you, you, you released the book in September.
And then you have the, the, the hold, how to hold people

(49:30):
accountable with the YouTube videos, things like that.
Are you going to like like become a life coach or recovery
and kind of do something like this where hey, Chris, we're
going to Zoom every Tuesday at 2:00 to, you know, make sure
you're still following the steps, you're still following
the outcome, you know, you're still going for the outcome,
whatever that have you want to phrase it.
Absolutely. That's a big part of it.

(49:50):
I mean, like you see a, a is theis the primary example of all
recovery programs, right? That's you know, I've I've built
a complete program on the side of the book that's not going out
with the book. That will be, you know, where
where people are going to be able to start their own programs
in churches and in in recovery centers.

(50:13):
You know, I mean, this is brand new man, and it sounds like it's
that's a. Great idea there, I like that.
You know, and I'm taking it as far as I've already can see
another writing coming out for because I want to get to the
inner city youth. Yeah.
And just with with manifestationtechniques and getting these
kids minds right before they before they're ruined.

(50:36):
Yeah. Give us an example if you would
have like a manifestation technique that you use.
Well, I mean, there's some of the simpler ones are, you know,
draw on a vision board. You know, that's something we do
right out of the gate. OK, so it's because not
everybody's going to know what avision board is Explaining what?
Explaining that so, so this, this person that I want to
become, you know, what do I, what am I going to look like in

(51:00):
90 days? You know, what are you know,
and, and this vision board, you can take it further down the
road, right to the clothes I'm going to be wearing.
What, you know, am I, I'm back to work.
Maybe there's some pictures of my on this board of, of my
workplace. Maybe it's the pictures of me
and my family from some of the good pictures that when we were

(51:22):
things were really good and I wasn't a mess.
You know, I got my job back and maybe there's just pictures,
pictures of the future or bringing up some of your older
pictures so that you have something to look at every day
to kind of keep you motivated and driven.
That was the hardest thing for me.
Steve was just getting into a routine again and it to be

(51:44):
honest. Back to life.
Listening, and I've told Chris this before, it's the part I
fucking hate the most. Still to this day, I do.
That's not me. Yeah.
It's all an act every day. It just is.
You know, I, for the people thatare listening, they're like,
wow, you're should have went to Hollywood.
I probably should have because it is the part I hate the most.

(52:05):
I don't like to be told what to do.
I want to do what I want to do. That part never left me.
So I, I do commend you for tackling that part because that
is the hardest part for an addict to get back into as any
kind of routine, right? You've been I was away from

(52:26):
society for almost 4 years rightstraight.
Like no. Job.
No. Like I was sequestered from
everybody. I saw him a couple times, you
know, just a select you. You probably didn't want to see
him either, you know, I mean, he.
Who would not want to want to see me?
Steve, I want to see more of the.

(52:46):
He is the least I when we talkedabout it, he's like, I sorry,
man, you should have said something.
I just you know, I he didn't know and he felt mad about it.
He is one of the least judgmental people here your
life. He just came over to jam at that
time and I was at the worst of my addiction.
So I, I really appreciate that particular one there, you know,

(53:09):
getting people back into some kind of routine.
Well, you know, I don't want I, I just learned so much about the
process of recovery, man, that Imean, at the end of the day, the
person that's fully recovered, that's not going back.
They're not the same person thatthey were.
No, in addiction, they're a different person.
They're they think differently, their minds are differently.

(53:32):
However you get there. This is a no nonsense program.
It is, it's, it is it's, it's a full out assault against against
addiction, right, because the addiction doesn't take any
breaks, man. So our recovery shouldn't
either. And this is my program is not
about passivity, but I want people to be excited even though

(53:56):
I I know where you're at. I've been in that pit.
I'm 100 * / / 35. Right.
But see, that's the validity of it.
You've you've been there. That's what our friend Mike
Larose is. He's been there.
Like it. Like my first a meeting I went
to at the time I was, I was, I was 20 years, I'm 55, I was 35.
So everybody in there was like 6570.

(54:18):
I'm like, this doesn't work. Like I can't relate to these
people at all. So then I found the one the next
day that was a range. It was probably people younger
than me all the way up to. A different a different program.
It was no, it's still a A, but it's a different location.
OK. Yeah.
So the first location was everybody was grandparents.
And looking back on that now, that's because the area where
that, that was was 55 plus world, adult community world,

(54:42):
yeah. Where is the one that I ended up
going to in Tempe. It was in Tempe, what's in
Tempe? ASU.
So it had a, a wide range of, ofage, which then I, I could
relate more to that group than Icould in the one in the East
Mesa because of the age gap. So it wasn't, it wasn't
necessary that I didn't want to go forward with it, but I needed
to find something that was connecting.

(55:02):
And that was the thing that the age connected me with that
particular meeting. And then I realized that you got
a chip every time you hit 30 days, 60 days, 90 days.
And that, you know, I've told itbefore here, that was the reason
that that I stayed clean was because I wanted to be able to
give those chips to my wife. Here's 30 days.
That's awesome, man. Here's 60 days, here's that

(55:23):
chip. And then there's there's the
frame. Oh.
Damn, Chris, your sobriety. Very cool, man to her.
Yeah, that's awesome, man. But that's the thing.
So you have to find something that's going to going to, you
know, flip your switch to, to change your habits because we're
all living proof habits can change.
Well, let me ask you. Yeah.

(55:44):
Mike, do you golf? I used to used to.
OK, I actually worked on a golf course for four years when I was
in high school. OK, what about what is it?
What is it you don't like to do?I mean skiing, hunting, I mean
activity wise. Oh, I'm not a big, I'm not a big

(56:05):
workout kind of guy. I could give a shit about that
kind of stuff. So.
I love that. So if that's.
Where him and I are different people for sure.
Yeah, he's the beast. He is for sure.
So. So if I said, like, you know,
part of our programs going to beworking out five days a week, I
mean, would you be excited? No.

(56:28):
Not at all, right? And that's just it.
Like, and I use AA as an example.
I don't knock any other program because every program out there
has saved people's lives. So absolutely, I've never been
an AA guy, right? I go in.
There. But here's where I'm at.
Because I'm a man of my word andI'm not a hypocrite.
I knew I was an addict. I don't need anyone else to tell

(56:50):
me that, right? I figured this shit out myself.
So. That's why you don't hear me
talking about recovery and like programs and stories and I pride
myself on not being stupid. That's the one thing that I'm
super proud of, right? I got an education.
I educate myself daily since I was about, I don't know, since I

(57:12):
could read, right? The one thing Chris and I have
in common is we were sick a lot when we were kids.
So we were kept inside. We didn't get to go outside.
We had to stay inside for recessand we were alienated from the
group. So I read a lot, and I became
those books. You know.
I just fell into them. They became my world and then

(57:33):
music became my world. And as an artist, you just gain
so much more perspective for theworld.
For life. To the point where your minds
expanded more than the average person.
By the time you're 20 instead of30 or 40 or, you know, you're
about 10 years ahead. Wow, you.
Know just. Because you put the time into

(57:55):
doing something that normal people don't, right?
So I knew I was an addict. I didn't need anybody else to
tell me that. I don't knock any program.
If it helped Chris, great. I love him as a brother.
He's great. But that I think it starts with,
you have to know where you're at, right?

(58:16):
Right. You can't just tell somebody I I
can save you without them wanting to be safe.
For sure, man, yeah. Right.
Yeah, yeah. My wife was a bartender for the
bulk of my my last two years of drink.
She's a bartender at, at, at, atApplebee's and a bar down in
Scottsdale. So she could tell me she was
until she was blue in the face that I had a problem.

(58:38):
And I'm like, no, I don't because I didn't.
I didn't want to hear it. She's right.
Everybody that was telling me that was right.
But you just as an addict, you're not going to stop till
you're ready to stop, period. Period.
Like you 30 years, right, 30 years of and and three or two
failed marriages that can kind of be tied. 3 failed marriages,

(58:58):
3 failed, the last one went one year.
Oh, OK, OK. I forgot to tell you about that
one, but that's OK. That's a short story.
But but you know, so I commend you, Mike.
But, and here's what I think we we run out of time.
Oh, we got a few more minutes. So like that you figured you're

(59:21):
in the minority of addicts that figure out I.
Know that. That's why I don't.
That's why I don't. Praise God man, good for you.
The only part that I'm going to,yeah, thank you for sure.
The only part I'm going to say is a a deal breaker is if the
person is not ready to recover. There's no program.

(59:43):
I don't care what you say. I will debate that and argue it.
If anybody wants to come on hereand tell me that I'm wrong, I
welcome it. That's why we're here, right?
But they're wrong because I've never seen somebody get sent to
a place and come out successful ever in my life.
And I've seen lots of examples. Same here man.

(01:00:03):
I'm not just saying, and these are personal friends of mine.
These are kids I went to school with.
These are bandmates. These are, you know, I could, I
could name off 10 examples off the top of my head and none of
them were successful because somebody decided for them that
they were an addict and they were going to get better.
Yeah, that it doesn't. And it doesn't matter who you

(01:00:25):
are. Doesn't matter.
Like from from somebody who's straight up living on a gutter
to Robert Downey Junior, right. You're not stopping unless you
have the will and desire to stop, period.
Like there's no, we saved continuously went and saved the
person in our family that was, was going down that path.

(01:00:45):
And, and so we watched the cyclein the 24 hour lockdown to get
cleaned in here, the 30 day, youknow, sober facility, you know,
24 hour care, things like that. And then we noticed a
disconnect. Once you get out of the 30 day
lockdown, they couldn't come back to where we were at because
of what they were doing. So then they had to go to the
halfway houses, group homes, things like that.
With the problem with that is then you go from 24/7 care to

(01:01:09):
nothing and you're dealing with the 14 other personalities that
you're the new one in the room. So all of a sudden you're a
piece of crap and you're not going to be successful because
the first thing you want to do is get the hell out of Dodge.
That's another great point. Right.
So there's, yeah. It's a super point and it's
going to go in line with the IT is that when, like you said,

(01:01:31):
it's just like when somebody gets out of jail, right?
The first thing, do they they're, they want a great meal
and whatnot. They don't go to the diner.
Shower by themselves. Yeah, they don't want to go to
the diner right across the street from the prison.
They want to get as far away as possible.
So that's part of the core of myprogram is to listen.

(01:01:51):
We are going to build you with personal growth and self
development right out of the gate.
And Mike, like you said, I'm so glad you brought it up about the
the books, right? I was never a reader and today,
and I don't read even today really, I listen.
So I'm I'm a. Vulnerable guy, we all do.

(01:02:12):
And, and, and it changed my world and, and that's part of
how this all came about for me too.
And I realize you can get away from recovery faster with
personal growth and self development.
And I mean, I listen to probably30 to 40 books a year, and some
of them tend to point. Steve, that's a good point you

(01:02:34):
bring up that I failed to include in my own recovery
process is it was an intense. I dug down deep into myself.
I've solved all the here's whereI went wrong, here's where I did
wrong to people. I apologized where I could and
then I started to rebuild myself.
Right, that's a. Very important point.

(01:02:54):
You have to rebuild yourself andyou become a new person on the
other. Side.
All of us are not the same people we were before we became
an addict. That would be impossible.
It would be impossible, correct?Yeah.
I mean, that's. Better now and we can tell
someone when you're ready, here's what you need to do and
that's what I hear from you. I'm not saying I wasn't trying

(01:03:15):
to say that you're, I hope you didn't take it like, you know, I
was trying to say your program'snot going to work.
I was agreeing with what you were saying from the beginning
of the episode in that you had to decide I'm ready to do this,
right. And for you, you found the Lord.
That's great. Everybody has to have a vehicle
to get there. I just call it a vehicle.

(01:03:39):
If. You call it God, That's great.
It was music for me. It's whatever for the next
person, but as long as you have something to hang on to that
centers you and grounds you so that you can move forward and
build your character and yourself worth and wanting to be
out in society. That's the one thing that I
forgot as an addict, is that I love people.

(01:04:02):
Yes. But the self worth, self worth
because what's 1 of the other common things with addicts aside
from being ADHD, right? You have no self worth 0.
And, and, and then you come out of the addiction, right?
And then also you look back on what you did and then you have
this shame. Oh yeah, because you're like, Oh
my gosh, I like, I tell the story on that's such a great
point. Thank you.

(01:04:22):
I, I tell, I tell the story all the time.
One of the Christmases with my wife, I, I got her diamond
earrings and I was like, and to me, I was like, Oh, I got my
wife diamond earrings and I wrapped up the package right.
And I walked through the hallway.
She was sitting in the, in the great room at that house and I
tossed her the box of earrings. I said Merry Christmas, turn
around and went away. And, and I could just, I can see
her face too and tell her story because she's like, oh, OK,

(01:04:43):
thank you. Like I was a total Dick.
My yeah. I wasn't because I wasn't there
emotionally. Like if I could go back in time,
just take those little nuances away from from our life, I would
because that's the thing that when I got clean and then you
start waking up with a clear head and then you start
remembering things. At least I.
Let me ask you this. Yeah, yeah.

(01:05:03):
That's the story you remember the most if you're ever going to
slip, right? Those kind of things, right?
If I'm if I'm even leaning towards being that person again,
those are the things I remember is how bad that felt.
Right. Yeah, Yeah, You want to, you
want to feel that? Something to hang on to remember
how bad you made somebody feel or how, you know, in my case, I

(01:05:27):
came home for Christmas one yearand I just devastated my mother,
you know, and that she's the only person walking the earth
today that can still make me feel like I'm an inch tall
because she's still the only person that's shown me
unconditional love too, right? So those kind of people, when
you hurt somebody like that, just like Chris did with his

(01:05:49):
wife, it means something to you.And that rattled around my head,
you know? Yeah, it it in it, it does now
it means something, man. And, and like Chris said, just
like today, man, I, it's like I,it's tough to get me rattled
today because I'm in peace and Isee the mess around me and not

(01:06:10):
just drugs and alcohol, just life in general.
Just life in. General and I just.
It's the negative impact of social media.
I, I don't want anything in me that's going to.
I want my mind so clear because you know, I, I need to be used
to help people, man, because youknow, that's.
So with with the the decades of your addiction.
OK, so then this this is going to be fascinating.

(01:06:31):
The answer is going to fascinateme when when you finally got to
the point where there was no drinking, there was no drugs,
there was no coke and crack and pot the first week removed from
that as you woke up every day. Did you have that like you get
cuz like when I first stopped drinking, it's like you wake up
and it's like, whoa, I don't have a headache, you know, and I

(01:06:51):
never my biggest problem too is I drank so much water while
drinking. I never really had hangovers.
So you know, that was the other little.
You were good guys because right, I was because just it was
good, but it wasn't good becauseit wasn't, it wasn't giving me
waking up because I would drink legit, man.
I would start at 3:30 in the afternoon when in the last six
months of it, and I'd go till I could fall asleep, not drunk,

(01:07:13):
but comfortably numb, you know, And and then I'd, you know, you
wake up and start the whole thing over again.
And a lot of it, like I can't watch baseball and TV at all
because I used to watch the Diamondbacks and drink a case of
another case. But 12 to 18 beers with two or
three shots of Jack and a big bag of what was it, a Ruffles, a
cheddar cheese, sour cream, chips.
That was my thing. So when I stopped drinking, man,

(01:07:36):
that's why I went from 2:34 to just because you don't have the
beer, you don't have the junk food.
But I, I legit, I can't watch baseball and TV.
It's hard. 101st how many episodes?
I've never heard that story. That's good.
OK, Yeah, yeah. And then the other thing too,
is, is when about the year afterI stopped, you'd back in the
back. I don't know if you still do it

(01:07:57):
because I don't watch commercials, but they would, you
know, poor Jack over Ice, right?Or crown Whirl or whatever doers
whisk, right? I would salivate.
I would watching TVI would just start salivating and remember,
oh, I had that one shot that onetime that I could feel it just
splashed into my stomach. My God, it gets warm.
You know what I mean? Yeah, it's.

(01:08:18):
A big lie. Weird little shot, right?
But maybe that'll kick the rest of my goal.
See, MM has luxury being able todrink and control I.
Was never an alcoholic. Right, right.
So. I don't like so let's at all,
yeah. I was.
Fortunate, yeah. Yeah, I thought I could keep
drinking even after the drugs and I finally.

(01:08:43):
And that that was just another part of the change in the last
few years. Like it just every everything
just starts to come together forme, you know, because I want
years thinking I didn't have a problem.
But you know, I owned bars and Ithink I did have a problem so
but a. Little bit so so as we come to a
wrap here, let's let's let's give people an idea how to find

(01:09:04):
your book and where to find you online.
OK. And so I want you to drop the
name of the book where they can find it once it once it gets
published. And then what's your YouTube
channel? And if there's a specific
website they go to just centeredaround you in the process.
OK, so the the book is called the Process a Radical Approach
to Recovery. And my website is this.

(01:09:26):
I'm all brand new, man. I don't even my channels aren't
all out yet, but I have a website with just very basics.
I just just got live, which is radicalrecovery.com and it's not
recovery, it's COVRY. So recovery because that's all

(01:09:46):
of my. Have you back on once the yeah,
once, once the books out for a couple months, we'll get you
back on like in November or. And.
We can we can plug all your yourthings as well.
So the book is called The Process The Radical Rd. to
Recovery. Yes, the yes.
A radical approach to recovery. Radical coach recovery And then
where are you going to find thatonline?
It's going to be on Amazon. It's with TBN publishing and so

(01:10:12):
everywhere. I mean, they're they're all over
the world. So definitely Amazon.
Any you know Barnes and Nobles, all the the big the outlets,
the. Big.
OK. And yeah, so that's that's all I
have out there right now, but it'll be out there.
We're talking September, man. I'm excited.
OK, cool. And people can find you on on

(01:10:33):
Facebook. It's just searching, Steve.
Feldman Yeah. Steve Feldman, yes.
OK. And Instagram, it's it's not
built up yet. Yeah, I'm fresh man.
We'll. Help you with that?
Yeah, yeah. We'll get on there and friend us
or. OK, I'll do are.
You on there? I am under.
OK, I'll find you and I'll friend you and we'll help you

(01:10:54):
with that. Man, I appreciate you guys
we're. Just kind of getting that part
going ourselves. Our YouTube channel is pretty
robust, but Instagram has been, I lagged behind.
Chris didn't have access to it. So everybody go, if you have
Instagram, sign up with us and Steve.
I'm going to jump on all your stuff, man.
I appreciate you guys. This has been great.

(01:11:15):
Thank you for the opportunity. It's really nice to meet you and
you incredible story and congratulations on everything.
Man, Yeah. Thank you.
Guys and again, I don't when people write books, I don't like
to share all the books content because I want people to go buy.
Yeah, man. So that's, that's why we just
kind of a little bit of softballin your windows, because we want
people to get enough out of thisto think, oh, that could help.

(01:11:35):
Yeah. Because I, I dig.
I dig the fact it's a workbook. Yeah, that's all.
Yeah. Because I, I, yeah, the
workbook's cool. Because then, you know, it takes
ownership. It's hard to rebel against
something that you agree to do for yourself.
So having to write it down in a workbook and a daily
accountability every two weeks per step is I think that's
fantastic, man. I appreciate you guys in this

(01:11:56):
format is awesome man I really enjoyed it.
So thank you. Michael was tuning in for pretty
much the whole episode again. Hi, Michael.
You got to go check out the livestream on YouTube there, Mr.
Dunham. I will.
He said he'll be checking Steve out and great show.
So thanks for tuning in again, Michael.
We appreciate it. And Ken says he's looking

(01:12:17):
forward to Friday. So couple of people chiming in
on the YouTube. Thanks for listening.
Yeah, and we close every show with this.
Don't let the bad days when somebody will miss you and love
you if you don't wake up tomorrow.
So reach out to anybody that youthink of that you can talk to.
It really is going to be better tomorrow.
Just, you know, take a deep breath, close your eyes, go to

(01:12:37):
sleep and wake up tomorrow. It's a brighter, better day.
Absolutely. This is you and somebody will,
Somebody Loves You. So, you know, make sure you're
there at present in the morning.Love it, right?
Thank you guys. Steve Feldman, thank you very
much. The book, The process coming out
in September, it's a it's a radical approach to recovery.
We're going to have you back on after the book comes out and we
can plug all your social medias again and and just kind of get a

(01:12:57):
feel for what kind of response the book had because I'm I'm
interested to see that because it is such a different approach
to getting out of addiction. So you definitely want to check
it out for Steve Feld, Mike Michaels, I'm Kristen.
I'm until next time, see you. Peace.
Thanks. Love you brother.
Love you too man, nice to meet you.
Steve, nice to meet you guys. The place where you will go

(01:13:31):
behind your eyes.

(01:15:24):
You haven't found solids in yoursand, you just fought fighting.
Wait for the dead when it's. Closer out there and.
For the wind, you ain't no creature.
We're playing found. And you should you, Chris.

(01:15:44):
On the almighty days you gotta dream Who in your life to keep
us all in every day. Take your chair behind your
eyes. Feel the soul, every shame now.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(01:16:13):
Take a moment. We will see you.
See him fight the family to you more clear.

(01:16:46):
You gotta, you gotta. You gotta, you gotta, you gotta.