#95 - Rock Royalty, Sobriety, & First Class Stories

Hello Friends,

In this engaging conversation, Chris and Mike explore various themes related to music, including a deep dive into Van Halen's 'Balance' album, the dynamics of songwriting and band chemistry, and a discussion on iconic electric guitar intros. They reflect on their personal experiences with music, the importance of collaboration in songwriting, and the power of musical authority in performance. The conversation is filled with nostalgia, insights, and a shared passion for music. In this engaging conversation, Chris and Mike delve into their shared love for classic rock music, reminiscing about iconic concerts and the evolution of legendary bands. They discuss the impact of Guns N' Roses on the LA music scene and the importance of authenticity in the music industry. The conversation also highlights memorable encounters with musicians and the significance of staying grounded despite fame. In this engaging conversation, Chris and Mike share humorous anecdotes about their experiences traveling first class, unexpected celebrity encounters, and the challenges of navigating sobriety in social situations. They delve into the dynamics of dancing, particularly country dancing, and discuss gender norms associated with it. The conversation is filled with laughter, reflections on empathy, and the importance of personal space while dancing, making it a light-hearted yet insightful exchange.

Thank you all for listening and sharing!!

Subscribe and Comment at our links below.

https://www.youtube.com/@chrisandmikeshow

https://www.facebook.com/chrisandmikeshow

https://www.instagram.com/chrisandmikeshow

Episode Transcript

(00:04):
What's up there, boys and girls?What's up, ladies and gentlemen?
It's. Chris, Mike.
Chills. It's Chris Mike's show.
He's Chris. I'm Mike.
Hey, not really. That would be crazy to take on
each other's persona for a day. I don't think I could do.
That there was a there's a song you could.
There's a song, it's a Van Halensong with the Hagar.

(00:25):
Era. One of my favorite ones.
Fuck, what the fuck? I guess it called humans.
No, not humans being what the fuck.
There's a line in it that that talks about.
Fuck this. Is it from that era?
It is from Sammy's era. Me wise, Oh no, that was.
Not me wise magic, that's David Lee Roth.
But it's there's a line it's I listen to it all the time, which

(00:47):
is irritating. I can't remember the name of it,
but there's a line where if you and I.
Were to switch places for a day,would would you be satisfied or
something? It's really, really fucking
cool, right? Now, oh, now you got.
Now I can hear him singing it, you and I.

(01:09):
Yeah, if I were you. And you were right.
What the fuck is that song, man?God Dang it.
Or if you were me, I can I can hear the cadence of how he.
Sings. I know, I know.
Absolutely, absolutely, man. Where's, where's the fucking
cancel called Van Halen? One of Eddie's finer guitar
moments too. And that what?

(01:31):
That's a deep Van Halen. Cut that.
Wasn't. Yeah, yeah, it's that's why I
liked it. Because it's not too.
It's not. It's not one of the ones that's
played all the time. Black and blue.
Panama feels so good. Duh, duh, duh.
I bet it's on like the Balance album.
Oh, that probably could be. Hold on.

(01:51):
Because that was one That was myfavorite Sammy era Van Halen
album for sure. Balance had a lot of tension to
it. You could feel that there were
things not right in the band, but damn did it make for some
good songs. Feeling feeling.
Yes. Fucking great song.
Oh man, that that just gives me chills now.

(02:12):
Great song, I like it because offeeling lyrics.
See if you can find that on YouTube and just play a little
bit of it. OK, so here's the line though
if. If I were you, if, if I were
you, if you were me. I wonder who I'd want to be.
Right. If.
I that's it. If you were me, I wonder who I'd

(02:33):
want to be. Yes, listen.
That is so man, I haven't heard that song in a long time.
It's on my, it's on my thing, man.
So how do I do this? Share.

(02:54):
So go down to the bottom where it says share and share your
screen. Yep.
Yep, it doesn't have a video, That's all right.
Yeah. Out of touch most of the time.
Donald Align. A little bit.

(03:14):
Of my mind. Kicking.
Down the way it starts. There you go, it's.
The hardest thing oh grow it alone, shave it all life is
hard, another song I need a change I need it quick before it
makes me sick is. This her last album.

(03:39):
That's what's on my my hand. It was.
Now pay attention, watch your back, pay your dues and stay on
track. Got no room to second guess.
Puts me on distress. Oh if I were you, if you were

(04:05):
me. Wonder who I don't want to be
with? Just one wish you can't refuse.
I wouldn't know what to do. A little breakdown.

(04:33):
That's awesome. I like the B side.
Stuff I don't. I like the commercial stuff,
right? But I I like a lot.

(04:57):
Of the the stuff. Say that statement again because
I don't know if anybody heard that.
OK, I said. I I like the.
The the the. Obscure B side stuff.
I don't. I mean, I like the commercial
stuff they release, but the stuff that's kind of just lost
in the system right on the albumitself that they don't ever push
out, they're hidden gems. Like, that's a really fucking
good song if you've never if you've never listened.

(05:17):
To it go. Tired of that one out?
Yeah, just just go listen to balance on a loan.
The balance. The balance.
Out the whole album. Is is fucking outstanding
balance. Let's just drop the entire
album. Let's see what they have.
The whole fucking stupid thing. Well, I heard one on the way
home actually came up on my playlist, The 7th Seal, which is

(05:39):
the first song on that album. Yep.
So there. Don't tell me what love can do.
That was a great rhythm. Fuck yeah, can't stop loving
you. Amsterdam song for sure.
Amsterdam's a great song. So 7th.
Seal Not Enough is another greatlove song.
Doing time. Not really a love song, actually
it's. Well don't.

(06:01):
You can't stop loving you. Very emotional and don't tell me
what love can do I both. Love songs, for sure.
Amsterdam's about partying stronger.
That's about partying, right? Take me.
No, I was talking about not enough.
I'm looking. Oh, oh, oh, oh, yeah.
OK, yeah, not. Dude, that song's another one
that it's just got incredible emotion.
Yeah, this, this has, oh, it haslyrics on there.

(06:27):
Is it playing? Yeah.
OK, it starts off real soft. Oh yeah.
Oh yeah, that yeah, that is a fucking good song.
That's the beautiful thing aboutmusic, man.

(06:52):
I like one of the. Videos about somebody to love
somebody faith free to love somebody equally.
It's not in love, it's not in love.

(07:13):
It's not in love to love somebody secret.

(07:35):
That's cool. Pause it real quick.
So I was working with this dude about two weeks ago and he likes
to talk music. He's a huge fan and, you know,
he's thinks it's cool that I wasa musician.
And we talk about songwriting and he says, where do you, how

(07:56):
do you know where to put? You know, you were orchestrating
where it was going to be before it happened, right?
Because as a songwriter, you feel that space and time that
you don't want to fill as a leadsinger, but you want to fill as
a songwriter, right? So now I'm going to put in my
background vocals. Yeah.

(08:17):
And you just see a light go off in their eyes.
It's like, oh, that's where thatcomes from, You know, It's like,
it's, it's as simple as that. The lead singer Can't Sing all
the time. He's got to breathe at some
point, right? Well.
Yeah, when that, the fact too, the, the way that we wrote stuff
and the way that I was trying, tried to, to write stuff before
and after it was I didn't, I didn't want the song to be
focused on what I was doing. I wanted the music and the

(08:39):
elements and the sound right, The solos and and the drum.
Fills the. Screen.
So a lot of the things that I would do, I would take, I would
take, I would take what the, what the music was, what you
guys are doing musically. And then from as I would start
formulating how how to structurethe the lyrics and you know, the

(09:01):
words themselves, right, Becausejust because I wrote it doesn't
mean I'm going to sing it the way it was written because, you
know, Annunciation, how to stylethe.
Word things like that. What party going to hold out?
You know the melody and shit develops itself within the music
of the song. But I was always really keen on,
like with Scott was how he was just a powerful drummer when
when he would have some fills and shit.
Like I purposely wouldn't sing over those things because I

(09:23):
wanted to hear it. When Rick could have a really
cool bass riff, I wouldn't sing over that.
If you're doing some weird harmonic thing here and there, I
never wanted to sing over that because I wanted the whole
element, the whole product needed to be heard, and
everybody's, everybody's part was so important to the song
itself. Well, I always thought it was
cool that you knew where the moments in time where you and I

(09:44):
could play off each other were. Right.
Well, that's just because we. Had that union man.
That was fun, you know, and sometimes those things would
have never happened on a record,but they happened live all the
time. Right.
And that's why it's really important, boys and girls, if
you're going to be in a band, before you lay anything down in
the studio, play it out 100 times, yes.

(10:05):
Play that shit out. Play.
It well, I'll tell you what I'm thinking of that I hear all the
time because I put it at the endof every episode is listen to
your sin. You sing all over that solo, but
that solo calls for somebody to do something more because
there's not a lot going on, right?
Right. And we did all.
It is is a harmony line. Right.
And we did that. That was just organically done

(10:25):
because when we were fucking around with that at Scott's
house, that's just, you know, because I don't think.
It was this man. I don't think originally a
single moment, yeah, I don't think I originally sang over the
solo. It just, it ended up evolving
that way because I would. You guys gave me the ability.
Improv so much on stage and and we were so tight that you would
follow what I was doing. So it wasn't miss stepping out

(10:46):
of this song or the context. Of the song that that was one of
the cool freedoms that I liked with Nemesis.
Well, I looked at it. It's see, that's how we got
along. If you want to know if you want
to know how to be in a hive mindas a band with other human
beings. I looked at it.
Here was my mindset trying to trying to think of how to put

(11:09):
this. It was basically the same thing
in reverse. So I'm thinking I want to add to
whatever you're singing without ruining it for the people that
are listening to it, right? Yeah.
You were trying not to play overthe top of me, and I was trying
not to play over the top of you.So what you ended up with was a
nice blend. Right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were.

(11:29):
Nobody looked on stage and went,That guy's definitely the guy
running the show. You know, how many times did we
see that? No, never hundreds.
I mean, we saw it, but not with us.
We. Just that's what I'm saying.
How many times did we see that with other bands where we we
would joke? That guy's definitely the
leader. Oh, yeah, yeah.
Oh, absolutely, man. But that was that was again, one

(11:51):
of our unique qualities. So why we're talking about
music? Because I let's just talk about
music today because, you know, we haven't done that in a while.
I stumbled across the I see. I stumbled across this thing on
Instagram and I sent it to you with a video.
It was a top 10 electric guitar intros.

(12:11):
OK. Oh, awesome.
Did you happen to see that? I need to get better about.
Looking, you're good, 'cause this is this is this, don't,
don't look now 'cause this will be a cool little, this will be a
cool surprise. So it's electric guitar intro.
So looking at this list, it's, it's basically all of its Hard
Rock intros. Yeah, it's all that's hard, Hard

(12:32):
Rock except for one. OK, so #10 which is kind of
surprising. It was #10 the the electric
guitar intro for Master of Puppets.
Oh, for sure don't. Yeah, why not?
Yeah, that's the Beethoven of our time, right?

(12:53):
That's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So the people can hear it. We're going to go to.
I got to share the screen. Oh, I got to start playing that
for sure. No.
How do I share the screen again?Where's?

(13:13):
Oh, there it is. I see it.
I see it. I see it.
I see it. Screen OK Share.
We love you guys. This is for entertainment
purposes. Only, yeah, exactly.
They're not going to sue us. This is the top.
OK, there you go. The plan?

(13:35):
Stop what you're luck with. Right here.
OK, so that's, that's Metallica.OK, so that was #10 master

(13:56):
puppets. #10. #9 on the. List which which I got to go
over here OK, I got to go over here yeah you're going to you're
going to you're going to agree with this one too as.
As far as it being in. In the list.
Oh, million percent. Yeah, right.
Yeah, right. Just kick that.

(14:16):
Just makes me want, yeah? Music video So it's going to
take a little to get there 4. 162 You're Sam Kinison, the
late, great Sam. There it is.

(14:50):
Absolutely. And he's just bending the
strings with that, right? Yeah, he's using his whammy bar.
Yeah. OK.
So that's number nine in the in the top 10.
Do you know how many guitar players made their guitar sound
like a car, engine or motorcyclebefore Mcmar said fuck it, I'm

(15:13):
going to record it? No, I'm just saying, like I
can't imagine how many guitar players just sat in their
bedroom and made their guitar sound like a motorcycle.
I got it was the one that was smart enough to go.
I'm going to put it on a record.Yeah, OK, You can like you're
going to like this one too. And then, yeah, 100,000 more
guitar players did it because hedid it.

(15:34):
So this is #7. That should be #1 right?
That just makes you want to crank up the volume to
1,000,000. Part of the two is you
instantly. Know it, Yeah.
There's. No doubt strangle what's coming

(15:57):
on. Right, you're in for a ride.
You just fucking know it. So that's number the.
Screen open.

(16:49):
This is. This is.
This is going back to. Paranoid for sure.
That makes me want to pick up myguitar, right?
Little Jimi Hendrix for you boysand girls.
Oh. Million percent.
Be honest with you, I don't remember the sound of this
intro. You will in a second.

(17:10):
Yeah. Right here.
Yeah. And that is how you make
history. Little wah.
Wah pedal? Yep.

(17:35):
So all right. Mini Windows has too many more
viewers. That's covering the.
Interesting. Well, if you go to the official
sites, I'm sure it's definitely we're just picking.
This is #5. Absolutely, Absolutely.

(17:57):
That's why I said most of them are Hard Rock.
But this one's not. This makes me.
Think of Goodfellas. Pause that real quick.
OK. That makes me think of
Goodfellas. And here's why.
OK. That band was so cool.
They just I understand why they're in there because that's

(18:19):
a great intro and the one you just pulled up is another great
one. But I'll tell you what's great
about Layla. They they had a great outro to
that as well. The piano outro to.
Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah, beautiful.
Yeah, absolutely. Beautiful.
Yeah. Yeah, simple too.
This one's great too. Yeah.

(18:46):
Some of the best sounding drums in my opinion.
All from from dire straits. Yeah, when the drums kick in
here. Yeah.
I love the way it just all builds up.
Yeah, that's the cool. That's kind of like I.

(19:06):
Certain stuff that we look, that's where I like doing that.
Yeah, I complain. We're falling back down and out
now. This one, next one definitely
metal. Oh, for sure.
Wait. I love it.

(19:34):
Oh my God, everybody's freaking the fuck out.
Still sounds as good today as the first time I heard it.
Right fucking hey, dude. First my my first introduction
to Iron Maiden my brother had. Had.
The Trooper album. Pause it real quick.
And and the album itself, the cover was like holy shit,
remember Eddie in the Revolutionary War garb?

(19:56):
100% nobody can hear us when you're telling that story.
And I love these stories. Oh.
Oh, cuz of the music. Yeah, I don't want them to get,
I don't want us to get garbled because I love your music
stories. Yeah, well, I and I love.
Yours, as I do my own. Yeah, so #2 on the list.
This might be, I take that back.This should be #1 you're.

(20:16):
Going to be surprised #1 is. And I'll tell you why tell.
Me. Why?
It's 2 notes, but Darrell forcedto move.

(20:40):
That's it. That's it.
Wow. He was just like, here's 2
notes, but I'm going to play himwith such authority that you're
going to have to move. And this is #1.
Well, all right, pause that right there.

(21:13):
Have you ever seen the Live at the River Plate version of that,
where they're down in South America at a soccer stadium?
No. That will, if you search that
one ACDC live at the River Plate.
OK. There must be 100 and 1000 and

(21:34):
20,000 people there and they start playing that and the whole
fucking crowd just starts in unison.
I love that jump up and down. Love that when you see that
dude. And they sing that riff, you
know, with ACDC, they're louder than the band at.
Time, that's all. I've watched that concert

(21:54):
probably four times in its entirety, just because it's so
awesome. You and I recently discovered
like 2 days ago discovered. Remember when we were on, we had
Jake on your friend Jake, not myson Jake.
Oh yeah. OK.
And we're talking about it gets.Confusing.
And we're like. Hey, there needs to be like like
a dedicated app to just music right on demand.

(22:16):
Everything from videos to you break it down to artists, eras,
albums, all that kind of shit. Yeah, fucking YouTube Music.
Is just that. I I don't know yet because I, I,
I, I've been wanting forever. I've been jonesing right to
rewatch scorpions worldwide live.
We, you and I have even talked about that like I've been

(22:37):
wanting to rewatch that because it just, that was one of those.
There's shows I go back and watch, so I appreciate why you
want to see that, you know, because it meant so much to you
in not only your introduction toHard Rock and what it meant to
you, but you know, as a front man and becoming a singer and a
songwriter and what you listen to then.

(23:00):
I've been thinking about that a lot as they come up in my
playlist. You know, a lot of those bands
from the 80s that were really good, especially like as a
guitar player, I listen to Saxonand Iron Maiden and Judas Priest
and you know, all the bands thathad really cool guitar players.

(23:21):
Whatever you want to say about the 80s, they they definitely
produce some amazing musicians. Amazing, amazing bands and a lot
of them get. Lost that could pull it off live
too, right? You saw it with your own eyes.
I saw the scorpions out in Arizona.
They were bad ass man. Yeah, and it was, it was, it was
cool to. So I found it.
I went on YouTube Music and I just I typed in Scorpions

(23:42):
Worldwide Live and fucking thereit was in its entirety.
Like the whole thing, I'm like, holy shit.
And then afterwards there's a little, you know, Golden Nugget,
the last like 12 minutes of it because it was a 50th
anniversary, which fuck, I'm old, right?
Maybe it's 50th anniversary of Scorpions because they didn't.
That didn't show. Didn't happen when I was 5.
It was a love. It was a love of first team

(24:04):
tour, which I didn't realize back then, but it's a love of
first team tour and they kept climbing the charts and that was
their second tour of the United States.
I bet that was about 1984. Yeah, yeah.
So they decided at that second leg that they were going to
start filming some shows becausethey wanted to capture what what

(24:24):
was going on because they just kept they kept climbing like
they were. They were stuck on certain
numbers on the charts. And then a couple weeks later
they bump up one and then a couple weeks later they bump up
one. And then and they crescendoed
all the way up to to where they were playing in Madison Square
Garden. They were doing the long the
Long Island Arena or something. They were talking about it.
Clausen and Matthias were being interviewed and they were it.

(24:46):
It was kind of cool. They were discussing the
evolution of the Love at First Thing tour and how they started
out down here and then all of a sudden they were the like the
hottest selling band in the in the world at the time and they
went from clubs to fucking. Thanks to Rudolph's brother
Michael. Yeah, yeah.

(25:06):
He chose, he chose his path though, and I'll tell you what,
the Scorpions did what they wanted to do, and obviously
Michael didn't want to go down that road, but they delivered
every night. Man, I don't even remember who
opened for the Scorpions. That's how fucking good they
were. Bon Jovi.
Oh, OK, You remember? No, because they talked about
it. They talked about it.

(25:27):
Oh, OK, I got it. Would you have?
Oh, you didn't go to the show? No, but the love of first tour
was Bon Jovi. Like like Claus had talked about
it in the interview, the post, the post radio interview, right.
He's like, he kind of said it with like, like kind of like a
dig. Like, well, does that make it
before 1984? Because it wasn't Bon Jovi on
top of the world by 1984? Maybe.

(25:47):
Maybe. Well, this was the way Klaus
spun it was that was Bon Jovi's break because they toured the
world with Bon Jovi. So maybe that was like the
runaway era of Bon Jovi, in and out of love.
That album. 7800 Fahrenheit, that's what.
It was, yeah. So was it was it was it was cool
to listen to them talk about howthe how the experience in the

(26:10):
band started growing because they started with the Spinal Tap
was out. They talked about that and how
their first stage. Set.
Mathias was like, it looks too much like Spinal Tap.
I'm like this, we're not doing this anymore.
So. So when they went to the United
States, they changed the set because it was.
I think we would have embraced that.
There was this, there was this thing that that like in front of
the drum riser, it was like a garage door with lights through

(26:32):
it and it was rising up while the smoke was billowing.
And they had their their intro music for the show coming on the
doom. And it's that was awesome.
Right. And then you start and as it's
rising and then they all kind ofkind of come running out of this
box. Right, you make me want to watch
this concert again right now. So they're all running out and

(26:52):
kicking their legs and Claus is throwing a microphone.
And then they're like, yeah, it's fucking Spinal Tap, man,
let's get a better stage, you know?
And then they, they, they go on like, like then all of a sudden
they have whoever was making Steven Tyler's clothes is
making, making their, their clothes for shows.
Because then they had to, they had to kick everything up a

(27:13):
notch. So the production had to go up.
The what they wore on stage had to evolve and change and get
better, brighter and, you know, different colors and shit.
And then all of a sudden they buy more guitars.
And it was, it was kind of cool because really they, they were
down here And then love the first thing specifically still
loving. You fucking took them.
What a great song though. There were.

(27:34):
There was a baby. Boom, Nine months after that
album came out in America. I believe it.
So yeah, that was cool. That's like the Rock'n'roll
version of Al Green. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, I was.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
So then. So then last night I was like.

(27:54):
Oh. From from whatever in my head
Queens, right? So I, I asked YouTube Music
Building Empires and sure enough, the building Empires
video, which takes you from the beginning of the band all the
way up to Empire that was, that was, that was cool.
That was interesting to watch. They're very Chris de Garmo did

(28:16):
most of the talking. He always reminded me of you, by
the way, and vice versa. You guys had the same look, you
know, kind of the same skinny rock.
Star, I think we had, yeah, I think we tried to achieve
similar styles. He was way more of a proficient
guitar player. But I know I appreciated how he
didn't just play, you know, the same rhythm over and over and

(28:40):
over again. You know his his songs were
structured and they built into something, you know?
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and they were.
I love the Queen. 'S right just because of of the
whole the product of it. Jeff Tate was a fantastic front
man, you know, and, and like we've talked about, that's what.
They were solid in every area. They were until the gun will

(29:01):
laugh and they kind of just poopdown a little notch.
Yeah, I mean, Jesus. You know, it's kind of like if
Jerry Cantrell left left Alice In Chains.
Not going to happen, Yeah. But if he did, it wouldn't be
the same. Band Yeah, you just can't.
That's a feel. So I think we talked about that
maybe on the last episode that we released where I said, you
know, you can be taught to play,but you can't be taught to play

(29:23):
with that feel that you heard inthe intros of all those songs
that, you know, I would put lifein the fast lane in there.
You know, that was just a intro lick or not an intro, a warm up
lick that Joe Walls played backstage and the guys were
like, hey, what's that, you know?
No shit. He's like, that's just something
I'm warming up to, you know? Right on.
Yeah, well, we, I didn't know that.

(29:45):
Yeah, he told the story on Howard Stern.
I like the little stories behindthe music.
You know, me too. I'm fascinated with that kind of
stuff. I actually just watched a
documentary over the weekend on Guns and Roses.
It's on Amazon Prime. I remember right about an hour
and a half, but it's all about their beginnings to basically
when things started to go South for him, right?

(30:08):
OK. Cool.
But the thing that I took away from that was the LA strip
basically survived for three years longer because of the
success of Guns and Roses, because they came from
Hollywood. Yeah.
Wow. You know, the 80s music was dead

(30:28):
at that point. And when Appetite, you know,
everybody sounded the same. I don't.
Sure dead is a bad way to put it, but it was just becoming
very redundant, stale. Yeah.
Everybody was a poser of themselves is what people called
those kind of people back in. The day.
So they said the success of Gunsand Roses basically kept that LA

(30:50):
Hollywood scene going for A33 entire more years past when it
probably would have died. Yeah.
That's how successful Guns and Roses was.
And they were too. And, and even though they came
out, yeah, and even though when they came, they came out with,
with, with appetite or welcome to the jungle, like he, his hair
was teased. So they still had a little bit

(31:11):
of the 80s nonsense. But then the music was like so
far removed from 80s. Pop rock, a hair band and then
it just it it went from. Could have been interviewed in
the documentary Mr. Dunham, theydiscussed that topic just like
that. It's it's true though, because
they it is true, they had to latch on to.
That But you know what one guy said that nobody ever talks

(31:33):
about that I've always said about Guns and Roses and I
wanted to say when Joe was here,but I I don't know.
I don't know why I didn't interject then.
But the one thing I always defend Guns and Roses on is they
were all characters. Each one was their own
character. The drummer also had his teased
up hair when Appetite came out if you remember.
Yep, no, every one of them. And then when Izzy left they had

(31:55):
the milk cartoons on one of the videos.
Where's Izzy? Yes.
Yeah, totally. That was, that was one cool
thing about what 70s and 80's rock bands did.
They kind of, you know, had little like the Scorpions, they
wore the same shit on the stage.Like you knew what you could
tell from, you know, back at PIRin the very far back.

(32:16):
Oh, that's Mathias because of his weird fucking yellow black
stripe clothes, right? And.
Claus had the. The the cheetah jacket and same
with kiss. They had their their characters
and. Think about it.
Duff was tall. He couldn't miss him.
He's like 6-2 or three or whatever he is.
Might be taller than that but Izzy look like a homeless guy
standing back there with his fucking Derby cap.

(32:40):
Axel was Axel, Slash became Slash actually became a
character of himself. Everybody knows what Slash looks
like. Yeah, everybody.
It's yeah, without it, without adoubt. 90 year old grandmas
know. Oh, that's slash.
Yeah, that's true, though. A lot of Yeah.
And that was the that was the cool thing about bands, the
personalities, especially the bigger ones.

(33:02):
You can start seeing the person eyes on stage and you know, it
came through and it was kind of cool.
But I'll tell you another thing I agreed with that I've said
too, is after the original core members of the band started
getting replaced, you never theylived off that most dangerous
band in the world moniker long after it wasn't true, right?

(33:25):
Yeah, Oh. Yeah, at one time they were the
most dangerous band in the world.
You didn't know what you were going to get from night to
night, but they were so fucking good that you had to try it.
You had to chance it. That's what the promoters were
saying. Yeah.
It was worth the amount of moneythat you stood to lose to you
know it. It was worth the amount of money

(33:47):
to put up. With the bullshit.
With the yeah, with their bullshit, because of how much
the end product was, you know you're making whatever it was 11
times on your investment. And the bullshit was Axel,
because everybody else wanted togo out and play and they just
had to wait for Axel. Yeah, there was somebody that

(34:07):
was close to Izzy in that documentary that basically said
he never wanted that band to getthat big and he left.
That's the end of the story. Izzy yeah, I don't see.
That it just wasn't for him, youknow, He would have been happy
playing in bars and clubs the rest of his life.
Yeah. And see, that amazes me.
There's people like that that gointo the music industry that,

(34:28):
you know, Eddie Vedder, he didn't want Pearl Jam to be
Pearl Jam, which I part of. Part of me gets that like you
just want to stay humble and in your space.
But if you want to reach to the level of that that you don't
have to worry about anything andthat's your life, then you're
going to have some level of success.
So let me ask you this because Iask every musician this.

(34:50):
OK. Does your message mean something
to the world? Do you want it to mean something
to the world, or do you want it to mean something to you?
From my from from the higher right.
Lyrics and stuff. Yeah.
I've always wrote it as approachto to this is for the world
because some way, shape and formthey're going to relate to what

(35:12):
I'm singing about. What I think that what I think
that to me that proves that you would have handled fame in a
very diplomatic and casual. Way I think I would have, I
think I would have been the guy that that would have I wouldn't
have like when I saw Queens likebuilding Empires, we had we had
meet and greet after the show, right?
So of course, the one who who comes out is Eddie Jackson, the

(35:34):
bass player. Like, like, like really like
Jeff Tate's not coming out, Wilton's not coming out, rocking
Field's not coming out. It's Eddie Jackson.
Get out. There, bass player, get out
there. He was cool, but it's just he's
a bass player and for those of you that know bass players.
All your You're treading on dangerous waters.

(35:56):
But you know what I'm saying? From a personality.
Standpoint, I don't know what he's saying, ladies and
gentlemen, because at some time I have to work with bass
players, so now I I know exactlywhat.
Bass bass players. Do you're a fan of the band and
even bass players understand? That's why there's so many bass
player jokes, you know, That's why normally they are such cool

(36:16):
down to earth human beings because they're going to have to
deal with the public hazing and hazing within the band at.
Times. Right, but it's just but.
They are the foundation of the band, whether you like it or
not. Yeah, yeah, they write the song.
It's not a chord until the bass player chooses the note.
That's always the joke. Yeah, so I mean, it was, it was

(36:39):
cool to meet him because that was the first real rock star I
met from a from a dialogue standpoint.
And he he's graceful with his time.
It wasn't like hurry up and ask my question and get my answer.
You know, he was kind of talkingto there's like 10 of us.
So, you know, he was signing stuff, talking, looking,
engaging, eye contact, stuff like that.
So it was a good experience. It's just not what it's not what

(37:00):
you wanted. And my question I remember to
this day was, are you guys ever going to write another rock
concept and, you know, a conceptual album again, like
mine crime and he's like, I hopenot.
And then fucking building. But building empires, like
building empires was a conceptual album.
Of course it wasn't. It wasn't as.
It wasn't as. It wasn't.
It was in your face. Right, it wasn't a start to
finish his mind crime, but it's still every song kind of

(37:24):
continues the story of the original song because the
context of it and and was all government and and you know,
control and conspiracy and shit.So that was interesting that he
said no, I hope not, but. Like what you just kind of did,
man, but his eyes didn't, so youknow.
That's cool. You got to meet somebody from

(37:45):
Queen Drake. Yeah, yeah, it was cool, you
know? And that he wasn't a Dick.
It always sucks. People forget where they came
from, you know? No, and and that's why I think,
and I think you too would have been.
I don't, I I don't. We can't speak for Scott and
Scott, Scott and Rick. Wow, brain fart.
Rick would have just been along for the ride, just like he

(38:05):
always was. Yeah.
But I think you and I would have, yeah, I think you and I
would have had no problem going out and signing things and
pictures and hanging out and just because that's.
No, we, I think that's why. Well, I don't think you know
kiddos that are out there that want to be professional
musicians. The reason that Metallica became
the biggest band in the world isbecause they never forgot where

(38:27):
they came from. And they are as much fans of
their own band and other people's music as we are.
Right? They'd never forgot being the
kids who were in the garage listening to their favorite
bands. That's why they became the
biggest. It just.
Yeah, as far as Hard Rock goes, or heavy metal or whatever you

(38:49):
want to call it, it's just, it'sjust you rise to the top by
being humble, you know? Yeah.
And like you said, you don't forget where you came from.
Like you don't. It's it's, I see it all the time
and I'm sure you see. Shit, I appreciate that
compliment from you though. That kind of stuff not lost on
me. I know, I know.
But I, I, I, I I see, I see too much of people walking by people

(39:13):
with their hands out like this. Just give me 5.
Just really just give the dude 5.
What's it going to hurt? You don't have to touch your
face. After you give him and 20 other
people A5, you go back to the dressing room and wash your
fucking hands, because I get that like I'm a little paranoid
with that shit, but I would still like fucking it's not that
hard. Oh look, there's a fan.
You fucking that fan is going togo home next.

(39:34):
Oh dude, fucking I sell scorpions last night fucking
with tire shops. I reached up on stage.
You slapped my head. It was cool fucking and that's
that's going to live in that kids mind for years and you're
going to like just like now Eddie Jackson wasn't oh, Eddie
Jackson, but I was. I was so into Queens Reich at
the time that it was cool enoughthat he came out and was

(39:59):
gracious and was cool and was answering questions.
It wasn't a Dick. And you know, he had the big 400
LB bodyguard that was, you know,far enough away that if somebody
tried to do something that the guy couldn't have saved him
because he was too big. But.
He didn't have him sit right next to him.
So it was, it was kind of cool. Like when I met Alter Bridge, it
was the same thing. It wasn't, they were at a table,

(40:20):
right? And so we were walking, we were
going across the table having them sign stuff.
But you had enough time to have conversations with him.
So much so that I learned that Brian Marshall, the bass player
for Alter Bridge, is a realtor in Florida.
So I actually tried to give him a referral one time and he's
like, I don't cover that area. Like, motherfucker, why not?
I would love to be able to get areferral from Brian Marshall.

(40:44):
You know, at least I tried, right.
So that was the that was the cool thing.
Approachable bands are just that.
Like Michael Bruce. I met him and Alice Cooper's
original guitar player. Really nice guy, really laid
back. Now part of it's because he's 70
years old now. So he's, you know, that's a dude
that stood in front of 200,000 people and played music when
Alice Cooper. So damn right.

(41:04):
Right. So if.
He's been any done that. Right.
So, so if anybody could have theright to have just an an ego,
something like that would have that right.
And he doesn't. He didn't.
Sure, he's just laid back. And those are, that's always so
fascinating to me. I love those people because they
became better human beings, right?

(41:25):
They experienced something that very few people will ever
experience, and they learned andgrew from it instead of being
like, look at me and look at what I did.
Right. I admire those people.
Yeah. And there's a lot of, yeah,
there's a lot of people that I've run across over the years
that looking on my wall over here, like Beth from Beth and
Bill, she's being on iheart in. Radio personality in Arizona for

(41:47):
decades and she, there was nothing pompous about her.
She was just, I saw her passing.I was getting ready to go record
my show. She was coming out of somewhere
and I was like, hey, Beth and she looks like, who the fuck are
you? And I was like, hey, I'm Chris.
I do a show with with G&E neutral talk USA.
She's like, oh, OK, how are you?I'm said, I'm great.
I was like, so this person I know name name Holly.

(42:08):
She thinks you're just the greatest person ever.
So I think would be hilarious ifI we could take a picture
together and I can just rub it in her face.
And and so and she laughed and then so Margie, my my Co host,
she took a picture of us and youknow, but she could have been
like, fuck off. She could have been like, hi
Chris. I got to go, but she wasn't.
She was like, OK. But don't you think that that's

(42:29):
why those people are so successful, because they're
genuine personality just like yours does?
I mean, I'm a tough card. I'm a tough card to read.
I don't know if I have a personality, but your
personality comes through in space all the time.
Yeah, and I agree with you. The more approachable you are on
the social medium, whatever you're doing, podcasts,
Instagrams, Facebooks, I think the more poetry.

(42:51):
People pick up on that, like yousaid, they, they get, they, they
feel that. Because they know you're not,
you know? Now I do have my asshole
moments. Not going to fucking.
Pretend we all do. We're human beings.
You know, but it's. Not perfect every minute of
every day. No, but it's kind of cool that,
you know, like when I met Butch Patrick, right, Eddie Munster,
there's a kid that came up from a child, right, And the Munsters

(43:13):
was a was like the number one show, right?
Laid back? Yeah.
There was only like 3 shows on television back then.
For real. Right.
Totally unassuming. You can kind of tell he's Eddie
Munster if if, but if he just saw him, you wouldn't think, oh,
that's Eddie Munster because he's old.
But just legit, really. Genuine nice human being, you
know, wasn't an ass. That's awesome.

(43:35):
You know, and I hung out with him pretty much for two days
because he was doing good news Arizona time and, and he invited
me to go. To the the Garrett Barrett
Jackson auction and actually film him selling the Munster
mobile. No way.
Yeah, we put it together as a little clip for him.
So that was. That's really cool dude, I'd
never do that. Yeah, so I was in the, I was in

(43:55):
the car filming him while he's waving to the crowd on this.
We went up on stage and I got out of the car on the Barrett
Jackson stage. And you know, that's so cool,
man, filming Eddie Munster. You better participant at
Barrett Jackson. Yeah.
I think that's neat. I was.
I watch that every time it's on TVI actually went to it once
when I lived out there. I'm right on.

(44:18):
Yeah, I've gone through a coupletimes.
And I'm not really even into cars, but I'm not something of
that level. That's like an old fuck level of
cars, you know? Right.
And but the the I've learned. Because I've probably gone three
times and I've and I've learned kind of like the Phoenix Open
because being a real estate title companies, oh, here's free
tickets and shit. That's how I went to the Barrett
Jackson, yeah. Right.

(44:38):
But you. You.
You only have to go to those things once really because it's
nothing really changes. Like I mean, there's never
really a a different car there that you haven't seen before.
Like every year you see the Mystery Machine.
OK, well. You only did it once, you know
what I mean? Do you remember how much the
Monster Mobile sold for it? It wasn't what he wanted.

(44:59):
I want to say 6070 grand. They were hoping to get like 100
or something and it didn't. It was a replica.
It wasn't the IT wasn't the original 1.
He builds. He builds replicas, he signs
them, he signs them. I mean, they're all like
they're, and they are. It's exactly like the car.
It's just a replica, kind of like the Batmobile, right?
The original Batmobile is not going to be sold.

(45:21):
But you have all these replicas that that people make and create
and you know, it's just aesthetics.
I got the Batmobile. Sure, you know Herm Edwards.
I met him in Tempe one time at We were at this restaurant
eating breakfast and. He just happened to walk by and
I'm like, you know, I walked up to him and I says hey, you know,

(45:43):
you're home. And Edwards, he's like, yes, I
am. I was like, can I get a picture
because I have a friend because I did Troy, who huge ASU fan
works for a issue. I was like, as soon as I send
him this picture, he's going to want to come down to meet you
and you're going to be gone. So it'll be funny, so.
He was, I mean, that was, that was.
I don't, he wasn't. He was, that's that's when he

(46:04):
was the coach for. ASU.
So it's not like he was. He was.
That's after he left the NFL andstuff.
I don't remember. Really anything about the
conversation, he just seemed like a cool guy that was
approachable. But anybody that's an NFL fan
knows that name for sure. Yes, yes, yeah, 'cause he
played, I think he played on thebox and then he ended up like a
cornerback, defensive side of the ball and then ended up being

(46:25):
a coach for The Jets. For a while.
And maybe a couple other teams, I don't remember who.
Leatherface. I meant Leatherface or not
Leatherface. Latimer.
Remember the movie The Program football movie with James Caan?
Yes, absolutely Craig Sheffield was the quarterback.
Latimer was a steroid it out defensive lineman that used to
paint his face all black and shit.

(46:46):
He was fucking huge. Yes, OK, so he was, he came to
town to a signing and I had, I went and picked him up from his
hotel and he liked Pantera, which I knew.
So I had Pantera playing and motherfucking just, you know,
like, dude, you're in somebody'struck.
You don't fucking whip out your your blunt and start smoking it.

(47:07):
And I was irritated. No, yeah, I would never do that.
No, I know, I know. I was like what the fuck dude?
Come on, You're talking to somebody that you know would do
potentially do something like that, but you know I would never
do that. Right.
But you know, he was Latimer. He was twice my size with
muscle. Yeah, but that's still fucking
rude because there's people likemy mother who are allergic to

(47:29):
smoke, you know, like it physically causes her to not be
able to breathe. So, you know, how did he know
that you weren't in that position?
That's that's what I'm always thinking.
No, I agree. You're like, is this cool?
You know, and I, yeah, so, but at the same time, you know, your
mom wouldn't have gotten picked up Latimer from a hotel room,
you know? No, but my point was.

(47:50):
No, I get your. Point, I know somebody who's
physically allergic to smoke, you know, so it had you been you
with her allergy. Right.
He could have potentially causedyou both to die because you
wouldn't have been able to drivethe car because you couldn't
breathe, right, Right. That's.
Have I ever told you the kid in play story?

(48:11):
I get irritated for you sometimes.
Have I told you the kid and playstory?
Remember, kid? And play from the 90s.
From the 90s I got no but I got to hear this one for sure.
Do tell. But you know who kid and play
are absolutely OK. So five, 5-6 years ago, Nick and
I are flying to Washington DC todo our first half marathon for

(48:33):
the Marine Corps Marathon they have every year.
OK? OK.
So. 1 little caveat about us because I don't drink, we don't
do anything extravagant with ourlives.
We live very like just humble. One of the things we do when
whenever we go somewhere to run like vacation races, we call
them, we go first class. And the whole reason why if you
if you've never run a half marathon and the day after half

(48:56):
marathon you're flying home and you're sitting in coach, your
legs don't fucking like you. That doesn't sound fun at.
All no. So that's one thing that we do.
We just, that's the one thing we've always kind of splurged
on. When she and I travel, we just
do that. And you're supposed to do that.
That's why you work, you're supposed.
To treat yourself. I just don't want people to
think I'm all pumped. It's first class, but it's if

(49:17):
you look at what we do. He's really Batman, ladies and
gentlemen. It's the only, it's the only
thing we do, really. Spoil ourselves that we should
say so. We get off the.
Plane obviously first class people go first so we're we're
the 2nd row on the left of the plane and the front row right
he's he's sitting there OK it's it's it's it's kid the one with

(49:40):
the but he. Didn't have the big hair.
It was. It was short.
Short, right? Wouldn't expect him to at this.
Point right, so he they get so we're basically three people
behind him. Well, this this kid had got on
the plane. As he was coming on the plane,
he realized who he was and and so he reached over and and then,
you know, kid was kind of a Dick.
Because you could kind of tell he was just like, leave me the

(50:00):
fuck alone. No offense kid, but it gets
better. So we're walking down the the
tarmac to get into the airport itself and that kid comes
running up again and he's chirping, chirping at him.
And you know, he says whatever back, you know, shakes his hand
and off he goes. The kid goes so now we're going
towards the luggage and he's 2 steps in front of me.

(50:22):
So I kind of double step and I was like hey man, he kind of
looks at me. We're walking.
Mind you, I'm like, who are you?He's like what?
I'm like, well, that kid made a point when he got on the plane
and got off the plane to chase you down.
So obviously you're someone and I said I'm sitting in first
class across from you and behindyou, but I'm not, I'm

(50:43):
respectful. I'm not going to bug somebody on
a plane. But I said, you know, we're
walking now in a hallway. There's nobody else around but
you, like you and my wife. You what?
I say nobody else around but my.Fucking love this.
Right, I said. So I just, I just want to know
who you are. So he drops his name.
Don't recognize his name. I was like and he and he, he
does it in a Jamaican accent. Not fucking mine too, OK?

(51:07):
He's not Jamaican, so I didn't recognize the name.
And I saw that. I was like, huh, I don't
recognize that name anything. What have you done that I would
have known? And he goes, kid and play.
I'm like, oh. Yeah.
Right. And so, so here we go, we get.
So then we kind of in the parting way to somehow that

(51:28):
path, we went to different routeto get to the baggage claim, OK.
In baggers came I'm standing there with Nikki and all of a
sudden fucking play comes up or kid comes up right next to me.
His name is I think his name is Chris.
So he. Comes right, So I kind of look
at him. I'm like you stalking me, man.
So I get a little smirk. I get one of these.
OK, it gets better dude. Do you believe how fucking funny

(51:51):
this shit gets? Do you?
Understand why I loved hanging out with this guy.
Lazy. You know, this was every day so.
We get our luggage, he gets his luggage again, we're going
different directions, right. He's probably got whatever car
picking him up and we, I don't know if we Uber the taxi back
then. So we go to the we get to the
hotel, which is some random hotel in, in Washington.

(52:11):
It's it's Halloween weekend, OK,And that's important to know
this. So we're in the hotel, we're
checking in, actually waiting inline to check in.
OK, I guess. Who fucking walks in the door?
Play. No, OK.
Sorry, that was. So I turn and I see him and I'm
like, I'm like, really, man? So now he's got a bigger smile

(52:33):
on his face. I'm like, dude, we could've just
shared the same car. Like we just both spent money on
the rides man, come on. You got me with that one.
So he's behind me now, in line, right?
Guess who fucking comes out the elevator not 2 seconds later?
Fucking play. So here we are.
I'm going to go get it. I'm with kid and play in a

(52:53):
Washington hotel. Hold on.
We're going to get the photographic evidence, ladies
and gentlemen. He's going to take the picture
off the wall. Oh my God, that story just
killed me. So if you grew up at the same
time we did, this story is hilarious.
So there we are this. Is that's awesome.
This is who was on the plane. This is who?

(53:15):
Bring it closer a little. Bit this is who I kept.
Saying, hey man, you're stopping, why you?
Why you stalking me, man? OK, so it gets better.
OK. That's a great picture though,
Right? So you didn't think it could get
better? Right.
It gets better. It gets better.
The next night, because we got there like on a on a on a
Friday, so or on a Thursday. So the next night, I think it's

(53:36):
Friday night, Nikki and I go down after we eat dinner and
stuff. We go down to the bar just to
have just to hang out. You know, she gets a Michael
Oboltro and I probably get a fake beer.
Motherfucker sits down to seats away from me and so, and then so
I'm at the bar, right? I got my little pencils and shit

(53:56):
and I see the sit. I see the chair cannot sit.
You're fucking killing me. And and then I put my hand on
the bar and I kind of put my hand on the chair next to me.
I was like, what's up, man? And he, he looks at me and you
can see in his face he's like what the fuck again?
I'm. Like you really got to stop
stalking me, bro. Like it's getting a little
weird. So now he's laughing and then

(54:18):
now he starts kind of really we're engaging, you know, just
kind of bullshit talking about nothing really.
Like really, we're not talking about anything, not bringing up
the movies and shit. You know, just why you guys
here? Oh, we're running this marathon
And like, why you're, oh, we're having, we're doing, we're
playing a show. I'm like, that's cool.
So even better. The next night is the 30th.

(54:41):
OK, Saturday night in the hotel.Well, kidding.
Play are playing Saturday night 33 levels above us because
they're still playing. Yeah, they're, they're playing a
show. Like everybody should know this.
Playing a show for Halloween. Why all the marathon runners in

(55:02):
the building are trying to fucking sleep.
So all you hear all night are doors shutting, girls fucking
running, people going up and down the elevators and shit,
people coming in and out of the rooms loud as fuck because
they're stoned, they're drunk, they're partying, kitten plays
upstairs doing their concert shit it like in the ballroom or

(55:23):
something they had at this hotel.
It's just insane. So then I end up following him.
I find him on. Somebody did not think this
weekend through. No.
So then I end up following him on Instagram and realized that
same era of time, he's launchinghis own pot line.
Yeah. Right, so so then I start
following. Larry Bird.

(55:43):
Yeah, so it was, it was, it was funny, man.
It was just, it was cool that that we just naturally kept
bumping into each other. And then by the time before the
concert night, he like literallyhe just, he's fine.
Like fuck it, I just got to talk.
To this motherfucker. So rewinding all the way back to
the beginning, I would hope thatin some minuscule part of his

(56:04):
fucking brain he realized that he's not as big as he once was
by your initial inner. Well, and and I wasn't being
like who the. Fuck are you?
I know you're not like it and that's why it became.
That's why it's. Funny.
I'm going to say this, and it's why it's funny.

(56:25):
But you have to know you on the level that I know you to have
the reaction that I did. That's why I laughed so fucking
hard, because you have one of the biggest hearts you will ever
find in the world. Thank you.
But you say I don't have any empathy.
So I think the one thing that you and Scott both had in common

(56:45):
is neither one of you had any empathy.
So I've dealt with it in two different ways.
Right. Yeah, Scott like to deal with it
angrily a lot. For some reason, he never did
that towards me. Maybe because he knew I didn't
need it or that he could just break me in half if he wanted to
because I'm not a willing participant, you know?
I just don't like to fight. Yeah, I think he just had a a

(57:08):
respect on a level. It's like it's not worth it, you
know, probably. But I.
Would I would say that, yeah. I always appreciated your lack
of empathy versus his because I don't.
I just don't like confrontation.Why?
Why do we got to fucking yell and scream and argue about shit?
You know, Why can't we just talkit out like human beings?
Right. Agreed.
So yeah. I I guess my point is that's

(57:32):
what makes that story so funny, because people would want to
take you as annoying. Yeah.
In the beginning. But you grow on people like a
fucking wart, sometimes just without them even realizing it,
Right. And that's what happened to
those dudes, you know? Yeah, Because you like to have
fun. And I was thinking about this on
the way home. That's what makes all this.

(57:53):
We're both wearing a black fucking shirt.
We don't plan this kind of stuff.
And I was literally thinking on the way home.
That's why I love talking to you.
Because I went from, I didn't have a bad day, but I kind of
had a blah, you know, it was just like any other day.
And I ended up having the best laugh I've had all day just
hearing that fucking story. And I know how they felt, you

(58:14):
know, because sometimes when youdon't want to laugh or you're
having a bad day, there you are.That's all I'm saying.
You're frozen. Uh oh.
Oh. I'm back.
OK, but I'm. I'm stable.
I wonder why he's doing that. I'm on the right Internet, Yeah.

(58:36):
You're here too. Yeah, but yeah, No, I get you.
Yeah. And that's, yeah.
I mean, like when I'm there's, there's other people I met when
I was doing my radio show, like I met Steve O the Jackass thing.
I he he was an odd person to meet.
Because he just started his sobriety and I was working for

(58:57):
this, this company that their whole thing was, was, was
Rastafarian colors and shit and selling one joint at a time was
their saying it was, it was the stupidest 6 months of my real
estate career ever. And legit I was, I, I offered
him a shirt. He looks like he's like, no, I
just find out. No, I was like, can I ask why?

(59:18):
He's like because I'm I'm that'snot me man.
It's you, you one joint at a time.
That's not me. And then he told me because I
didn't follow Jackass, he's like, you know, I've been sober
for, you know, six months. I'm like, oh, good for you, man.
And I was like, whatever, I listen, yeah, I'm like 12.
Years sober. Listen, yeah.
Here's why I would have fucked his world up.
Nobody's sober from marijuana, you fucking pussy, right?

(59:41):
You either smoke it or you don'tsmoke it.
There's no Oh my God, I got. I have my weed, you know, unless
you're fucking stupid. But I but we don't.
Know because he wasn't an engaging personality that was
going to give. He would, he did 3 hours on
Rogan after long after. So that's cool that you actually
talked to him when he was newly sober, because I think he had

(01:00:03):
been sober for, well, what time frame would that have?
Been it was. It was.
My show was six years ago, so 2000.
Well, wait, no, this is 25 now, so eighteen, 2018, I think.
Yeah, so. 2017 2018 went March to March.
He might have had like another year or two in when he finally
agreed to go on and. Talk to Joe.

(01:00:25):
Gotcha. And he did seem like he was
pretty touchy about, you know, whether he was still hanging in
there with it. He he was still sober.
But you know, I think it you remember in the beginning it's
touch and go for a long time. Well, and I think I think a lot
of people too, because when, when, when somebody who's has

(01:00:45):
various addictions, like we had Mike on our friend Mike, right
and he had various levels of addiction.
It wasn't just one thing. There was, there's, he kind of
alluded to it, but we didn't go in detail.
Right, I went through the same thing.
So I think that potentially whenwhen you're stepping out of that
lifestyle because it that's what.
It is Mike and I stories are eerily fucking similar.
Right and it's a lifestyle like you're it's all-encompassing yes

(01:01:09):
so and I and I'm kind of thinking that's how it was for
Steve O don't know, making the assumption here, but that may
have been his defense mechanism like I can't just do that
because that will lead to that like like.
And I think he did, you know, now that you say that, it
triggers my memory. And I do believe that he said
almost exactly that when he was talking to like, if I get high

(01:01:31):
with you guys then I'm going to be smoking crack on fucking 10th
St. in LA or whatever. It's kind of, it's kind of like
smoking cigarettes, right? When you go to the bar, if
you're if you stop smoking cigarettes and then you go to
the bar, what's the first thing you want to have?
And there are people that, you know, that's why people say,
well, marijuana is a gateway drug.
I suppose it could be for some people.

(01:01:52):
It's it's only a gateway if, if,if that's what they started
with. So yeah, I, I think so.
I don't. You and I both agreed that we
don't think POTS a gateway drug.You know I don't.
I mean, it could be introducing somebody to that euphoric
feeling, but I only think those people that have deep rooted
addiction issues are the ones that that it starts that way and

(01:02:16):
then and that it opened the door.
But I don't think it was a gateway.
Well, and not to get too far away from that, that Steve O
subject, his would be a reintroduction to a Radix
lifestyle, right? That's what I had to be careful
of is can I have just two or three beers or can I have just

(01:02:37):
1/2 a joint, right, and be happywith it and not smoke it all day
every day and have to want it and not really want it.
But you know, for me, you hit the nail on the head.
At one time, that was a lifestyle for me.
I didn't go, I didn't go to worklike everybody else, 9:00 to
5:00. And I didn't have a job that
demanded that I be there certainhours and do certain tasks.

(01:02:59):
And it was like, you know, I hada skill set that nobody else had
at that time. And I could come and go as I
pleased and do what I wanted because there was like 5 people
in the entire valley that could do what we did.
You know, that all changed when the digital camera came out.
But there was a time I had a skill set that was highly sought
after. The people that owned the
company didn't know how to run the machine that I did.

(01:03:20):
So you kind of just do what you want at that point.
So you're right, lifestyle is a good way to put.
It yeah. Because you don't, you don't
know, like, like when I stopped drinking, like and, and when
Nikki realized that I was legit going to stop drinking, she
stopped drinking Like there was no booze in our house, like at
all. You know, now there, now there
is because I'm 20 years into it,20 plus years into it.

(01:03:43):
So there's. There's a little 8 pack of baby
fireballs in the outside fridge and I have no desire to touch
them because that's, that's just, you know, that's not who I
am. Right.
I look at it on a deeper human level.
I think it's cool that you allowher to be her own human being.
And if she wants to do that on aSaturday night, right?
You know she's entitled to do that because she wasn't an

(01:04:04):
alcoholic, right? Exactly.
To me, that's the ad verbal quality.
You know, I I have said this on the podcast.
I probably haven't said it in long enough.
Before we ever started doing this, I asked you if it bothers
you if I drank a beer while we were sitting here.
He did and it doesn't. So nobody said anything about
that in a long time. But you know, Joe said something

(01:04:25):
about it when we were headed outto get food the other night.
He said, man, like I feel like aDick.
And I said, why? He said, you know, I like to
come over there and have a good time with you and you know, I'm
sitting there drinking and Chrisis talking about being fucking
20 years sober. And I said, trust me brother,
he's fine with it. I wouldn't let you sit there and
do that in front of somebody whoI love, you know, like a

(01:04:47):
brother. That wouldn't happen.
I would not embarrass you like that.
I would not offend somebody I love like that.
So, you know, we both got a laugh at it.
But but that's the kind of guy that Joe is, you know?
And that's cool. He felt bad about that.
And he's like, I'm trying to have a good time.
And this guy's telling me he's 20 years sober.
And I'm like, fuck, man, I look like a Dick.

(01:05:07):
I said no, not at all. I actually asked Chris before we
started the podcast is, is this going to bother you?
Because if it is, I won't do it.And you're like, hey, man, I've
been sober 20 years, and I have to be around it.
It's all around us. Yeah, that was the point you
made. Yeah, and like Nikki and I go
dancing Saturday nights most times and and denim and diamonds

(01:05:29):
and it's a bar. It's a big bar.
It's a dancing bar. We show up at about 6:15 because
it's a free lesson from 6:30 to 7:30.
We do that. We hang out, you know, and then
we usually out by 9 because by 9:00 the crowd starts piling in.
And then you have people that got there around 7:00 that are
now two hours in the drinking. And then, you know, it's just

(01:05:49):
kind of like, OK, it's time to go.
And she respects that. She knows I have limit when we
go to a bar for something, she knows I'm about two hours.
And then that's kind of I'm reaching my point because people
start getting stupid and then I start getting defensive because,
you know, she's five, 215 lbs, you know what I mean?
We're dancing on the floor and fucking she's getting.
Elbowing and shit and that doesn't fly with me.

(01:06:10):
You know, it's like we, we know how to do this country swing and
you can legit do everything within, you know, a A4 foot
square space, right? Like you don't have to leave
that space. If you, if you know what you're
doing, you're doing it properly.There's no reason in this little
space I have on my desk right here that we could completely
dance and do all the moves and shit we do without hitting

(01:06:33):
anybody over there, over there, over there, over there.
But there's some people that think that they fucking own the
floor and they have to take, youknow, enough space for five
people. And it's like, and then they
start when they rub it, when they when they she got fucking
elbowed in the nose one night because this dude fucking spun
his girl and and her elbow just went and and I'm like,
motherfucker, like, you know, and I don't I don't I don't ever

(01:06:58):
want to go to blows either. I've been in one fight my entire
life. So people don't fuck them
because how I look right, But I know I know how to defend myself
if the situation presented myself because I went through an
entire executive training program for like party guards
and shit because they're like, why not?
That's a cool thing to learn. So I you know, all kinds of shit
I can do with just my hands withyou don't even realize that all

(01:07:20):
of a sudden I got you subdued infucking 2 seconds.
So it's it's that thing when they don't respect the space and
then she ends up being a casualty.
I'm like, I'm she knows I'm fucking out.
Like we just, we have to leave because then my mood changes
because it's then I'm, I'm trying when you dance with
somebody the way you're supposedto dance with them, your, your

(01:07:41):
eye contact the whole time because you're dancing with
them. You're not dancing with the
space there, the space there. So when people are doing these
intricate moves and, and spins and stuff, as you turn, as you
turn each other, you lock eyes and you go back and you lock
eyes because it's all about movement.
And you're basically, you're basically I fucking each other.
So when I have to start, when I have to start watching dickhead

(01:08:03):
over here and then this chick over here and this couple over
there as I'm doing these things and it, it takes away from the
element of the dance and what we're trying to accomplish by
having fun and connecting, blah,blah, blah.
So it's just like, OK, we got togo.
It's. It's time to leave because it
just. So am I to assume by the story
that country dancing is still very popular?
It is very popular. We, we it's.

(01:08:27):
Here's the thing though there. Used to be a station years ago.
You know, like I didn't have cable, so I only got so many
stations. When I lived in Phoenix, right,
There used to be a country station that was on that played
some dancing show from Nashville.
It was like simulcast or whatever.
Yeah, So it was popular in the 90s, probably K and a extra

(01:08:49):
camel country, one of the two, because that's only two country
stations. Yeah, so now Sirius says prime
country they do on Saturday nights.
Because no, this was ATV stationthat had country dancing.
Oh. OK, oh, maybe it was talking.
About CMT or some. Shit, wild horse.
Saloon. That's what it was.
Yep, I know what you're talking.About and the only reason I
watched it, I turned the volume off because they had good
looking chicks Sure on it. Yeah, yeah.

(01:09:10):
Yeah. Same reason people watch Soul
Train in the 70s. Or 80s, right?
And it's the one cool thing about it.
Good looking women is Oh yeah, when they do, when they do the
line dancing, right. I don't stay on the floor for
line dancing because line dancing is for women.
Guys, women, line dance. Yeah, guys, look like.
Men, you don't line dance, OK? Like we had somebody teaching.

(01:09:31):
You can it all help it. Right.
We had a dancing instructor who teaches these lessons every
Saturday and it was like 200 bucks.
You don't look cool. Yeah, to get us a dance lessons
and he told us that because Nikki had asked about a line
dance and he's like he looks at me, he's like you line dance.
I'm like, no, he's like good because and he made.
Very misogynistic comic that I'mnot going to repeat, but men
shouldn't line dance, right? For obvious reasons right now

(01:09:55):
when the. Floor is full.
When the floor is full, OK, whether it's it's 90% women and
then you have some of the guys are trying to be cool, it's
pretty bad ass when they're doing the line dance and they're
all in unison. Like it's, it's, it's kind of
like, it's kind of like a Pantera concert when you're
walking and everybody's you know, or Metallica and
everybody's doing. But when you're like legit this

(01:10:18):
far away from the floor and you see 100 people on the stands
floor, it's it's kind of cool. It's I won't be going to lie.
I'm not going to go out and learn that shit because it's,
I've turned it a couple of times.
So I'm like, fuck this, this doesn't work for me.
Guys don't do that. No, it's nice to watch Nikki do
it because then she spends her eyes to your cute little ass and
she's kicking her boots and stuff.
You know, it's like. It's funny you bring that up

(01:10:40):
because I don't even know where I recently saw it.
My must YouTube video saw something I don't know but I was
like guys should not line dance man that just does not look good
at all. No line dancing.
Your jeans are too tight and you're making motions that you
just shouldn't make. Agreed, yeah.

(01:11:01):
And and so I just, you know, there's there, I will say there
are some men that show up at theenemy diamonds that they spent a
lot of time. Learning all these line dances
and they pull them off Florida State, but it's now come a
couple of them because we know enough people there.
We don't know that we know them.You know what I mean?
Like, oh, that's country dance guy and.

(01:11:23):
I'm not saying guys shouldn't dance, I'm saying guys shouldn't
line dance. Right, I agree with you, but
there's. Going to be a ballet guy, I'm
fine with that, right? But there's a couple.
So stupid. There's a, there's a, there's a.
It does, but there's a couple. People off right now, I know
that, but. It just, you know, controversy
man sells tickets. But there's there's a couple of

(01:11:44):
them that line dance, but they are instructors.
They teach country dancing. So I can see why they're out
there doing that, because they want to get the girls.
Getting paid. Well, they're not getting paid,
but they're, they're out there. No, they're out there to recruit
people. That's how.
OK. No, but this is how we decided
taking line dance or taking dance lessons.

(01:12:06):
Daniel. Daniel was the teacher.
OK, Daniel was the teacher. Denim and diamonds, so he
references. He's teaching more than line
dancing. He doesn't teach line dancing.
This is why I'm but this, this is where I'm going with it.
OK, so so Daniel would say afterafter the.
Night killing me. I want to like Daniel.
Well, you are. I'm explaining it.
OK, OK, so Daniel doesn't teach slang dancing.

(01:12:30):
Daniel teach country swings. So one of the one of the fourth
or fifth times we were there, I caught him saying after the
lesson, hey, if you guys want one on ones, find me after, I'll
be over here. So I went over that like, dude,
you teach, you teach, you can teach us to dance better because
Nikki loves to dance. He's like, yeah, I have private
lessons that cost this much, youknow, half an hour once a week

(01:12:52):
for six weeks. Perfect.
Sign us up. So we went and honed our skills
and learned little tricks to thetrade, like how to stand and how
to move your feet and the whole eye concept thing.
And then Nikki had asked about line dancing and that's where he
looked at me. He's like, you line dance.
I was like I said, I've tried a couple of times and he's like
basically without. I don't remember exactly what he

(01:13:13):
said like. You're a man, you're not a
pussy. Don't go line dancing.
I'm like, OK, I'm cool with that.
We just, you know, and and. Couldn't agree with Daniel
Moore. So, and Daniel's kind of an
interesting character. He's he's, he's kind of an actor
per SE. He's been on, he said he was on
CSI Miami as a recurring, you know, extra.

(01:13:35):
Cop role type thing and. Hasn't everybody?
Right, He's he's he's I think he's he's a good funny.
No, he's a good guy. And but he teaches every
Saturday. That's one of his gigs.
So while I was getting at it. So there's a couple other people
that show up there that we've seen consistently enough that
they're actual, they're country dancers.
One guy's a it's a trip. He's a black guy, but the dude's

(01:13:57):
fucking smooth as silk on everything he does.
And when he's out there line dancing, no, and he's out there
line dancing, it's like legit, he's just, it's amazing.
So he's out there because he's recruiting people on the dance
floor. Hey, you want to learn how to
line dance and country swing? I teach lessons.
Here's my card, right? It's no different than then, you

(01:14:20):
know, somebody wanting going to a, you know, a convention
selling their product behind a booth.
He's just selling his product onthe dance.
Floor. So are you going to take dance
lessons from somebody that you've never seen dance or.
Are you going to? Take dance lessons from somebody
who's out there. Like holy shit that dude's
smooth. You're still proving my point.
He's still getting paid on the end.

(01:14:42):
Agreed. He is getting paid on the end.
He's out. There's no different than you
soliciting, right? Hey, I'm a real estate agent.
If you want to sell or buy, I'm your guy, right?
Right. Exactly.
Yep, same concept. Same exact concept.
Yeah. So there you go.
I'm just trying to help him. I'm justifying why he gets to
line dance and nobody else does.Daniel doesn't line dance the

(01:15:02):
black. I know Daniel does.
Yeah, he won't. I'm justifying why the other
guys get to line dance and nobody else does.
Because in the end, they're getting paid right dollars.
It's part of their job. Well, Daniel's the only one
that. Says men shouldn't line dance.
There's other men that obviouslythink they should line dance
because they're out there line. Dancing.
I disagree. That's where I'm going with
this. So if anybody wants to come on

(01:15:22):
and debate us and tell me why you should get to line dance,
I'm sure they're going to say because it's a free fucking
country and you have a valid point.
Right. It's a free country.
All right, we're going to wrap this up.
I got to get ready. OK, brother.
This is this flew by. This was fast good.
Times must have been fun. It was fun.

(01:15:43):
What did we talk about? Music, man, I know music is us.
You know, our favorite, our favorite topic of, of
discussion. So I'm going to go check out,
I'll check out the Guns and Roses thing tonight.
I'll let you know what to think about.
That yeah, I'm almost positive it's on Amazon Prime.
OK, cool. Right on.
As we always say, don't let the bad days win.
Tomorrow is a better day. So if you're feeling distraught
and depressed, you know SomebodyLoves You.

(01:16:04):
Somebody will miss you. So don't be that person that
leaves a gap in somebody's soul.Because you left without talking
to them and sharing your feelings and concerns.
Somebody's always around to listen.
So if you don't have somebody todo that, Google.
Google to help. Google Machine.
Absolutely, yeah. So thank you, thank, thanks to
everybody who's out there listening and we appreciate all

(01:16:26):
you. We wouldn't be doing this if
everybody didn't keep listening.So I say it every time we
release an episode. We appreciate you guys
listening. We appreciate you sharing us and
absolutely growing and doing it and doing better things.
So thanks for being out there. Yep, nothing but love.
People absolutely love you brother.
Love you too man Peace, peace. Where you will go behind your

(01:17:29):
eyes. Take a moment.

(01:18:53):
Come down here, you haven't bounced out it and see yourself.
You won't fight him. Wait for the dead.
When? You're supposed to arrive and
get put in the wind. You.
Ain't no. Creature, we're playing fire and
you, could you quit On the almighty day?

(01:19:16):
You got a dream. Who is your life?
To keep our soul in every man. Take your turn behind your eyes.
Feel the soul revolution now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

(01:19:39):
yeah, yeah. Take a moment.
We can see you. See him.
Put the bail in to you. More clear.

(01:20:14):
You gotta, you gotta. You gotta, you gotta, you gotta.