October 6, 2025 • 51 mins
What if slowing down was the key to better mental health, not a sign of falling behind?
In this milestone 100th episode, Christina Crowe, RP, is joined by psychotherapist Katie Richardson to unpack one of the biggest challenges for adults with ADHD, learning how to pace life sustainably. Together, we explore why rest is not laziness, how to balance ambition with wellbeing, and why “rise and grind” culture is harming more than helping.
From personal stories of navigating ADHD, parenting, and entrepreneurship to systemic critiques of capitalism and productivity culture, this conversation offers insight for anyone craving a healthier rhythm of life. Whether you’re neurodivergent, self-employed, or simply exhausted by the pressure to do more, this episode will help you reclaim balance, energy, and joy.
What You’ll Learn in This Episode:
Why adults with ADHD struggle to slow down, even after diagnosis and treatment.
How pacing, buffer time, and concepts like “good nothing time” (thanks Simon!) protect mental health.
The hidden costs of overcommitment in work and family life.
How different generations (Gen X, Millennials, Gen Z) are reshaping the meaning of work and wellbeing.
Practical strategies for setting boundaries, preventing burnout, and creating space for what matters most.
Resources for After the Show:
ADHD and Worklife recommended resources and links
Our Resources: The Dig Deeper Blog, especially The OG: The ADHD Resource Hub.
Find Christina (CRPO #3908): Website | Find a Therapist | Instagram | Podcast page
A gentle reminder that this is not therapy, and Christina is not your therapist. If you would appreciate one on one support or treatment, please check out the links posted above or our Resources page on our website.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Christina Crow Podcast where
we connect the dots and search for more balanced mental health.
I'm your host psychotherapist, Christina Crow, and today I'm
welcoming back a psychotherapist, Katie
Richardson, who was my Co host last season and a great friend
to the Christina Crow Podcast and to Christina Crow as well.
(00:29):
We are going to talk about how to slow down, which you might
kind of feel like why do we needa episode?
Tell us how to do that. But we are talking to you, ADHD
adults and ADHD parents. We do need that information.
So welcome, Katie, welcome back to the show.
Yeah, and it sounds really basic, doesn't it?
(00:51):
But it's just so much more complicated than I ever would
have thought. It is.
And like I think that is a ultimate theme of working with
ADHD, both our own, ourselves trying to help other people is
that everything is like a prettybasic instruction for life.
(01:13):
The problem isn't that we don't know this stuff.
The problem is that it's hard toconsistently execute on it.
And I think the other thing I was just talking about this with
somebody else is that when you first, like if you first get
diagnosed with ADHD as an adult,after like a lifetime of like
kind of doing, well, kind of notdoing well inexplicably between
(01:34):
both scenarios and feeling behind or behind your peers or
behind at work, you can't quite figure out why you can't get
anything done. And then, oh, you figure out
it's ADHD and then you go on medication for the first time.
We all of a sudden go through this like, Oh my gosh, I can do
life now. And then I don't know if you
(01:56):
remember what that was so long ago for me, but I distinctly
remember. And then it kicks off this
period of kind of awesome productivity and the sense of
self actualization. It's like all that potential
people told you about for so long.
Now you're actually doing it like it was just up to you.
Like obviously there's a lot of other things that mitigate what
(02:18):
we can and can't do in life if you're not careful, because now
you're doing so much, you get really overloaded and over
committed. And then it's almost like we
forgot, even though you're treated quote UN quote, you
still have an ADHD brain, which means instead of doing less and
being really picky and choosy about the less that you do, now
(02:41):
we're doing the things we like. We're doing things we don't
like. We're doing things on behalf of
other people. We're doing things to catch up
on lost time. We're checking standards we
didn't even check before becausewe couldn't be bothered to meet
them. Now we're trying to meet new
standards. And then you kind of collapse at
(03:02):
some point and you're like, well, this isn't all it's panned
out to me. I don't know if you've had a
similar experience. I'm kind of describing my
experience and some experiences I watch other people go through.
No, it's like, it's like we cramourselves full of stuff.
If we start meds, then it's how we were coping, right?
It's how we're keeping up with everybody or feel like we have
(03:23):
to, to keep up with everybody. And then suddenly, oh, Vyvans,
oh, OK, I can do things now. Great.
Oh, now I should be able to do more things and more things and
more to love. And then we fall back into being
really, really overwhelmed and stressed out and.
Yeah, Yeah, I agree with you. What have you found that like,
(03:46):
why do you want to talk about this today?
Why do you think it's important to talk about?
I don't know exactly when this started becoming like front and
center in the work that I do with clients, but somewhere
along the way I was like, wait aminute, they've got the meds,
they're feeling better and everybody is still over
committing. People don't want to let go of
(04:07):
that. No, and it doesn't help right
'cause that's what capitalism wants too.
It's to make you do more and more and more right.
And time is money. And if you start taking time for
yourself, then then what, right?Yeah, and you and I are both
sort of self-employed and we've both been employees at times.
(04:29):
And as our good buddy Andre Brisan always says is ADHD is
become entrepreneurs because youend up not feeling like you
belong in other workplaces. So then you build your own
company, you build a place whereyou belong, right?
And then if sounds great, like being your own boss.
You can go to a yoga class in the middle of the day if you
want to. You don't have to answer to
(04:50):
anybody. And then the joke is always
like, I work so much more as an entrepreneur now than I ever did
as an employee. Like being an employee somewhere
would be like a walk in the parkat this stage, right?
But but so yeah, it's like it's a catch 22, I guess, as they
say, right? What do you find the hardest
about being self-employed and then trying to keep some sort of
(05:14):
balance? I think for me it has been
underestimating the amount of buffer time I need between
things. OK and having breathing room.
Like it's great that I can set my own schedule and everything,
but just like I was saying, I cram it.
(05:34):
I cram it to the minute and thenall the admin gets blown out the
window and there's no time to breathe.
And then I get home and I've gota hyper kid and a hyper dog and
everybody's screaming and I'm feeling really stressed out and
it's not doing anything for my nervous system.
Yeah. Or I should say that has
(05:54):
historically been the case and Ithink I'm getting a little
better at it. Have you?
Figured out how to deal with allthose things.
Well, I've, this is where the kind of the pacing stuff comes
in. I've been thinking a lot about
the buffering stuff. And, you know, when you're a new
therapist and well, I don't knowif this is the case for
(06:15):
everybody, but when I was into atherapist, the place where I did
my practicum, the owner of that practice said, oh, you could
put, you know, 15 minutes between every session so you can
do your notes and not do that atthe beginning.
I'm like, my brain doesn't switch modes that quickly.
Like it's not enough time for meto switch into documentation
mode and back. I was like, no, I can't do this.
I'm just gonna stack them. When I started building my
(06:37):
schedule, I was like, OK, well, you know, 3 hours, 3 clients.
And you know how we don't get very much support in school
about clinical notes, right? Yeah.
So there's a learning curve. There's a learning curve.
And then one day I was like, oh,you know what, I'm really fast
at notes now. I could probably do it in that
15 minute gap that I needed whenI started.
(07:00):
And so I practiced that over thesummer and I was like, you know
what, I can do this now. So what if I don't have to cram
everything together and I can kind of take my time a little
bit more and get my notes done so I'm not thinking about them
all the time after work. And it's been pretty good.
(07:22):
That's. Actually within the last two
weeks that I'm like, well, this is after we moved, so yeah, all
that stuff, so. You have a lot.
Of that stuff, yeah. But like, only in the last two
weeks where the routine has kindof had a chance to establish
itself, have it been like, oh, Idon't have like, today, like, I
don't have any paperwork to do today.
I'm like, what do you mean? What do you mean I have a whole
(07:43):
day to do what I want? That's beautiful.
And it makes such a difference in my quality of life.
So this week I was like, no, I'mgoing to keep up every day.
And I did. Big difference.
It's amazing. So I OK, so this is a great
example. You and I are both and are
divergent and I have not the opposite experience, but I have
(08:09):
never had a problem doing the notes right after my session,
right? Arguably your notes are probably
they could be better quality than mine, right?
But there's there's things that I I know that if I don't do my
notes in a day like me, the the chances of me coming back four
(08:29):
days later. If I make it once a week where I
sit down and do my notes is likenot good.
That's not going to be a good scene for my brain or me or
anyone else around me. So I know that about myself.
I got to get it done and move on.
I get. Learning that.
Yeah, I can deal with follower things no problem.
But to go backwards to record something that's already
(08:50):
happened, I got to do it right away.
So I'm like still actually in the moment, even experientially
of what I felt like in the session, what I was thinking in
the session, all that stuff proof will be gone.
So I've always known I've neededto do that.
It's a, but what I have done andI've done this, I almost like, I
still think in terms of like academic year, like September to
(09:11):
June and then summer and I make my skin and sometimes then I
think in quarters. But I, I'm constantly tweaking
my schedule because I've got, asa group practice owner, I've got
lots of different hats that I wear and I've never wanted to
give up my clinical hat. Like a lot of group practice
owners stop seeing clients entirely because you become a
(09:32):
business owner at that point andit's a totally different job.
And they do that full time. That's a full time job.
Why would I want to do that? I've been working 2 full time
jobs easily for the last 10 years.
It's a lot, you know, but I don't do them all 100% at the
same time. And I found something that works
for me and I have an amazing team and lots of support.
(09:54):
And it happens to be like the areas I have interest, there are
absolutely administrative thingsthat do not get done because
it's beyond my capacity or my interest, one or the other,
right? And then I have to make myself
not do things that are not necessarily boring.
(10:14):
You know, they're kind of boring, but they're important,
but I don't really, or they're interesting and they take me
away from the boring stuff that I need to get done, yadda,
yadda, yadda, right? But the pacing part is so
important. Like I can't go hard for like a
week and then go easy on the Monday That this and this is the
thing I, I feel like is people think.
(10:35):
So this kind of ties back to your capitalist comment earlier.
People think that because there's like a 9:00 to 5:00
Monday to Friday work week that we as humans are all supposed to
be able to focus and be productive from Monday to
Friday, 9:00 to 5:00 it that it just those two things don't go
together. And so I learned a long time
(10:58):
ago, long. So this is my second career as I
think everyone knows. But long before I did this
career, I accepted the fact about myself that I would kill
it, kill it for like 6 weeks, 8 weeks.
And then I would come to a screeching halt and totally shit
the bad for like a month and then I would kill it again.
(11:18):
And I could be more productive and get more done in 1/4 than
any of my peers because I acceptI get to beat myself up for that
rhythm. I noticed it.
I thought it was odd. I knew that it was different
from how other people around me functioned, but I also knew the
results that I got. So I was kind of OK with it.
(11:40):
And I think my bosses were always OK with it too.
It worked until it didn't work and then I left.
Did something else. But recognizing those intuitive
things that are like important to your rhythm of life and your
sanity are so important to give yourself permission to do.
And that's something I've alwaysadmired about you is you have
(12:01):
always been with me so easily able to say, this is what I can
and can't do based on not only just you, but like, you know
what, what your, what your responsibilities are in your
life. And I'd be like, well, that's
amazing. It's so clear.
It's, there's no wondering aboutit.
It's like this is this is the deal and have you always been
(12:22):
like that? I don't think so.
I don't really remember life before being a parent.
Yeah, I would assume it was verydifferent back then, but.
Are there things that you would do differently if you were not a
parent from a pacing point of view?
I'm having a hard time even imagining imagining what life
would be like. It is weird, I don't really
(12:43):
remember a lot. I don't remember what I did with
all my time. I think I went to the gym a lot
more. I played hockey.
We had more random interests. Having kids really made me have
a routine like the kids. Yeah, because we had to give the
kids a routine. It made me routined.
While having kids is not easy because I had three little ones
all at once, life was actually alot simpler with kids because
(13:07):
they came first, their routine came first, and everything else
came second. And it was what it was.
Yeah, it came with some externalstructure, almost.
Yeah, they gave me structure. They still do.
I really appreciate about them. Can I back up for a second?
Yeah, because I thought of something when you were talking.
I was thinking the way you're talking about, you know, like
(13:27):
the go, go, go, go, go until youkind of know how to gas and then
you spend some time finding a gas station and to charge back
up, then you go, go, go. This is like what?
Kind of like what I hear from ADHD clients all the time,
right? Is that especially with the
hyper focus, they're like, OK, yeah, but you know, when I find
a hyper focus, I don't wanna stop 'cause I don't know when
(13:48):
that's gonna happen again. And it feels like it's a really
bad idea if I stop. So the idea of pacing sounds.
Like. Something that people can't do,
what they feel they can't do 'cause.
It feels good to be doing something that you are
(14:08):
interested in doing and that you're good at doing.
So why would you want to stop, right?
So again, how intrinsically people are like resisting that
idea? Or even like, you know, when
you're in in school and so many of us wouldn't start a project
until the day before it's due, you know, and then it's like go,
go, go, go. No, we can't take a break
(14:29):
because it's actually due in themorning.
Hey, that works till it works until you have other people that
need your attention that night. Exactly.
You can't pull an all nighter. I'm like, yeah, don't fix what's
broke. If it's not broke yet, it'll
break one day, trust me. But like, it's OK.
Like we can pick and choose whatwe're going to focus on.
You know, I think the thing people worry about is they worry
(14:50):
that in that burst of productivity and inspiration and
hyper focus that the thing that is the outcome of that, the
thing they're working on. If you take medication and
become more regulated and steadyso you don't have these big ups
and downs as much anymore. This doesn't happen to me
anymore in that cycle, not the way it did before that.
(15:12):
They won't be able to have that outcome anymore.
Like they'll lose their creativity, they'll lose their
spark, they'll lose their their ability to produce the thing
that they can produce that makesthem special.
And I spend a lot of time tryingto reassure people that no,
that's actually not what happens.
What happens is you remove the shitty time when you're on the
(15:33):
couch for a whole weekend or forweeks at a time, and that comes
back up to a baseline where you're not totally depleted and
you can actually do the amazing things that you do now without
that being a barrier at a more consistent rate.
It's really cool because being treated for ADHD doesn't take
(15:54):
away your strengths. It like reveals more of them,
right? And until you go through the
experience of like trying medication, reaching an optimal
dose, learning about it, whetherit's through therapy on your own
self study, talking to people, talking to your friends,
(16:14):
listening to podcasts, doing webinars, whatever is accessible
to you, that there's no way to actualize this other than just
going through it yourself, right?
Yeah, and you know what? The pace and conversation comes
up too, especially with stimulant medications when we
(16:36):
tend to struggle more with the tear reception bit the like
noticing if you're thirsty or hungry or you know, that your
body needs stuff too late. Yeah.
And I'm like, OK, so it's even more important right now for you
to make sure you get luncheon, make sure or you're going to
have a really, really bad crash later, you know, And to expand
on that further, like if I come back to the day-to-day and you
(17:02):
know, it's funny you mention that because the gas and going
really hard and then going, because that's what I thought
about first when I started scheduling myself is OK, well,
I'll just do clients Monday, Wednesday, Friday and I'll take
the days off in between, but I'mgoing to cram, I'm going to cram
those days full and but I'll have a whole day off after and
it'll be great. If I was your coach, I would
(17:24):
have said no, that's not how we're going to do it.
Exactly, exactly. Because part of it maybe some of
that sounds great in theorem, like, Oh yeah, I'll have a whole
day after to recover and, you know, do whatever I want and be
like, OK, but what if you could feel good every day?
Like what if you spread the lovea little bit?
Imagine that. Every day have some buffer time,
have lunch. Sometimes after a session I just
(17:47):
need to sit and like stare at a wall for a while then like let
my brain rest for a second before I can do anything.
Some just nothing time. Yeah, yeah, I hate productivity
culture. Like the rising crime culture.
I've always hated it though, long before I knew I had ADHD.
(18:07):
Just always rubbed me the wrong way.
I think the capitalist influenceof like, time is money, right?
Like, I can't take breaks in between things.
I can't, you know, because this is, you know, half an hour.
That's X amount of dollars for me or whatever.
Yeah. I I saw this great video not too
(18:28):
long ago and I forget it was a but a like an African culture
and their philosophy of time. They believed that rest produces
time. I like that it produces
capacity. Yeah.
Right. Yeah, yeah.
And so, you know, you can keep going at it and going at it and
(18:50):
going at it and feel frustrated with yourself cuz nothing's
happening. And is that ADHD?
I mean, in part probably, but isthat ADHD or is that, you know,
not giving rain what it needs tobe able to do the thing?
Here's my new idea about the Venn diagram of all this stuff.
OK, because you and I are from slightly different generations,
(19:10):
right? You're Are you an Elgar
Millennial or Midmillennial? I'm a millennial.
You're a millennial, I'm a Gen. Xer.
I'm a Zennial, so I'm kind of onthe cusp, but I'm pretty firmly
A Gen. Xer.
So the anti capitalist awareness, I think, of course
there's Gen. X anti capitalist, but I learn
(19:32):
more about that from you and from my millennial friends and,
and now for sure from my Gen. Z kids.
Absolutely. And so I've learned a lot about
is there ever such a thing as ethical capitalism?
I don't know, like just the impact of work culture and
productivity culture. And if you can get it done in a
four day work week, why the helldo we have a five day work week?
(19:54):
And what does work really mean? And the idea that we should be
able to integrate, I think the pandemic allowing us to work
from home and permission to workfrom home allowed us to balance
family and work and integrate much more.
So we weren't severed like the show severance where you had
your work, personality and life responsibilities.
It was completely separate from your work.
(20:16):
And the work always impeded on the personal, right?
Like our children should never be the ones paying the price for
a corporation making money. Yet that's the systems that we
have. So we work in these systems.
And then there's also this otherconversation that's happening
that's about like the Boomers and the older Gen.
Xers are all mad that the Gen. Z's don't want to work the same
(20:38):
way and have different work values and prioritize their
well-being at work. And that that's like such a big
conversation in business circlesand in leadership magazines and
stuff. I'm fascinated by it.
And then I kind of thought, well, like, there's nothing that
the Gen. ZS are saying that anyone really
(20:59):
can take issue with because theyjust don't want to die for their
job. And is that so awful?
Right. Nope.
Maybe workplaces should be better.
And then the neurodivergent circle now comes to overlap on
my Venn diagram in my head. And I'm like, maybe Gen.
Z is the first truly unmasked generation.
(21:22):
Like we've been talking about unmasking for so long.
Gen. Xers.
I mean, God, it takes a lot to like kind of consider how you
mask as a Gen. Xer in the world.
And, and maybe we didn't have tomask as much because our parents
didn't pay attention to us as much.
So there was actually not very many people to mask to other
(21:43):
than the man, other than the corporate man, the corporate
world. So we mask at work to like get a
hat because that's that's what we were taught right by our
affluent parents. And then the millennials, God
love you guys like one disaster after another in the world,
right. So asking personally,
professionally, academically, everyone's looking at you such a
(22:05):
massive cohort of people in the world.
Our economy is depending on everybody, this ridiculous
amount of pressure and Gen. Z comes along they're like a
screw all you guys. I.
Love it. But they've grown up with
parents who have allowed them tobe themselves, you know, for
better or for worse, and who've,I hope celebrated and who our
(22:30):
kids are and in their individuality.
And they're trying to find theirplaces in the world because it
feels good to do something meaningful and to contribute to
your society and contribute to things.
So it's not about not doing something.
It's about where do you find meaning in the things that you
do? We really believe good mental
health care should be accessibleto everybody.
(22:51):
That's why it Dig a Little Deeper.
We offer therapy at a range of price points, including reduced
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for the first time or looking for specialized support, we can
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(23:13):
Start today at Dig a Little deeper.ca.
I think they're the fully the first really wholesale unmasked
generation. I don't know, because they
really just don't care. They could care a little bit
more about stuff. It's interesting, right?
(23:34):
They're going to save us. All I don't know if you had
parents who are like what they're giving you homework like
what do you mean like home is home, you know, home is for rest
and being with family and. That's what we were like.
I know. Yeah.
Oh, did I tell you these stories?
Like we, I remember when our middle guy was in like, grade 5
(23:55):
and then he'd come home with like hours, like elementary,
like public elementary school, elementary and you know, the
tears and I'm like, this is ridiculous.
And then my husband wrote a noteto the school and says, moving
forward, my child will do work at school.
He's there for 8 hours and he will not be doing this stuff in
the evening. That's protected time for our
family and for us to hang out together.
(24:17):
It's not to run around and go tohockey and go here and go there.
Although our kids of course played sports and stuff growing
up and had extracurriculars, butit wasn't to do school for 12
hours a day. You know, like screamingly
successful by all accounts. So we didn't go wrong with that
strategy, that's for sure. They were able to leave work at
(24:38):
work really early in life. Right.
Oh, my middle guy taught his, teaches me how to relax on the
daily. I come home, he's on the couch.
I'm like, what are you doing? He's like, I'm relaxing.
I'm like, are you kidding me? There's like the the after
school snack dishes are still inthe kitchen.
I'm like, you're relaxing beforeyou clean up after what you he's
like, I'll clean it up after I'mdone relaxing.
(24:59):
So he's got like a set in his mind, a period of time where
this child is going to relax andhe will, he will get up.
So it's not like he doesn't do it.
He does do it. He does it and how he slotted
out his responsibilities for theday and we let him do it.
And so it's actually kind of admirable watching him run his
life because he's very balanced,he's very paced and he schedules
(25:23):
in or appropriately books time for himself to chill out.
And I'm like, he could probably teach a course for every woman I
know. Because imagine you just sit
down and you're like, I'm going to relax now.
That's everyone's homework. And it's not procrastinating
right? Like it's.
It's good nothing time. I got that phrase from Simon
(25:44):
Sinek. One of his most recent podcasts
is the one I sent you. I think with the Star Wars stuff
on it was so good. But he talks about scheduling in
what he calls good Nothing time,where it's literally you just
sit and do nothing. Like let yourself be a bored
human. It's beautiful.
So I actually have a chunk of that scheduled into my schedule
(26:04):
every week now. Rather successful so far.
You know, I wonder if things areshifting and, and this is so
this is my theory cause Nova Scotia is further away from
capitalist central. So my niece and nephew's school
day in Nova Scotia, they start at like 8:00 their school day
(26:26):
and they are home. They are home by 1:30.
Wow, interesting. What do you do with them?
Alaska, right? And run around in the streets.
I don't know. My mother-in-law is watching
them right now and she's like, well it's good because then they
can come home and have a snack and then we can go do
extracurricular whatever and be home for.
Are they in private school or public school?
(26:47):
No, it's public system and I don't know if every school has
the same. It's interesting.
I mean, they say for teaching jurors they shouldn't have to go
to school till like 10:00. Like they should be able to
sleep in in the morning because that's their brains need that.
Like it doesn't make sense with the way schooling is.
It's always just like you like fight the system, damn the man.
(27:09):
But also you don't, you don't want to be squeezed out of the
system. You want to be able to thrive on
some level with your sanity and your values intact and find a
way that works for you. I think one of the things too,
so I didn't grow up with social media framing my expectations of
what work would be like as a teenager or as a young adult,
(27:32):
for example, right. So as a Jetax or whatever I
thought of the work week or workday would be like or family life
would be like was shaped by ATV like 902 one out or Melrose
Place or things that I saw. Well, really, TV is a lot of it,
right? Or people around me or what my
parents did. And so I always kind of had this
(27:52):
idea that I don't know what I want to do for a job, but I know
the lifestyle, like the pace of life I want to live.
And I had a job that allowed me to have a lot of control over my
own daily schedule for like 20 years before I did this job.
And now this job also allows me to do that.
(28:15):
There's been times when I've hadAI have to go to the office at
8:30 and I don't get to leave till five kind of job.
Yeah, but it didn't last long. Where did you learn the cause?
Your mom's a doctor. Where did you learn?
Yeah, not from. Her that value.
I think knowing myself, like being with myself, like it's
something I've always known about myself, right?
(28:37):
Like it seemed cool. And I'll tell you, maybe it's
kind of accidental. My first job after school was
working for a book company that sold the medical or the books to
university bookstores. It didn't last long.
I wasn't ready for a job like that.
The geographical area covered was too big.
(28:57):
But it came with a company car and I had a massive student loan
when I was graduating from university and the amount of my
student loan repayment would have equaled a car payment back
then. So I'm strategic as hell, right?
So I'm like, I need a job that is a company car.
And that I even knew that was a possibility.
(29:18):
It was probably like from knowing different sales jobs and
stuff like that, that I eventually got involved in in
the Pharmaceutical industry. But that was how I did that.
And then because I'm, I'm a goodself starter, like if I have a
goal, I can get up every day anddo it.
Like that's one of my strengths for sure.
I'm doing something new and it'snovel.
I, I'm your girl. I can launch a business, I can
(29:40):
start something new. My problem is finishing it.
It's not starting it. So I just gravitated towards
those things. I would have never applied for a
desk job. Like to me, that just would have
been so boring. Painful.
Yeah, but for those people who love the stability and routine
of that, who it's their nightmare to think about getting
(30:00):
in a car and driving to talk to somebody about a product or a
service and then drive home, andthat's your contribution to the
world. There's people who are like,
that's my nightmare. No way.
And I was like, this is great, get my copy, rolls out my
windows, put sunscreen on my right arm, like, it's all good.
I loved it until I didn't. I didn't do that job for long,
(30:25):
but I did other jobs like that for a long time.
But what what about you? What did you know about how
you'd want to work or what kind of pacing or lifestyle you'd
want to have from as early as you remember thinking things
like that? I don't think I thought too much
about pacing so much as well. Like because my son had so many
(30:51):
unexpected like medical needs and stuff like I, I didn't
actually get, I didn't get back into the world, the real world,
like grad school and back to working world until he was 2
1/2. And at that point I knew like,
OK, I, I do for sure. I want to get back into
something, but I had no intention of ever being like
(31:11):
full time back in something that's kind of where the, oh, I
can just do three days a week would, would come in.
And what they don't tell you about this career is that your
your session hours are not the same as you're like hours
working right now. Like depending on your setup,
every hour with a client is equal to for sure 30 minutes of
(31:37):
administrative time, but that adds up.
So if you see 10 people a week, that's another X amount of time.
And then the problem is, is thatpeople consider their work day
like revenue generating hours isclient time, but they don't then
schedule in the non revenue generating yet important to keep
(31:59):
your license hours within that same time frame.
And that's where a lot of therapists who then now they're
going into business for themselves run into a lot of
trouble without business experience, or they're not going
to work for an agency or anothergroup or hospital or a clinic or
(32:21):
something. They're going into private
practice, which is what allows you this freedom.
But yeah, there's no one educating young therapist or
novice therapist on what it means to run a business.
And the time that is involved inthat, well, it's a battle.
You end up with some scars sometimes.
Yeah. And I feel like I really learned
(32:45):
the hard way how important pace pacing was.
Like most recently, because we were selling the house and it
was, there was just so much happening at once, right?
Like, you know, seeing clients and we were showing the house.
So we had two hours notice to get out of the house with the
kid and the dog and go somewhere, right?
(33:06):
And then my partner went to Australia for one week of that
and it. Oh my.
God, just all these competing stressors all at once.
And then I started having like arrhythmias and.
Yeah, I remember that. It was just like what is
happening right And you feel. Like a 24 hour Holter monitor,
didn't you? Yeah.
And even knowing that that was kind of like a temporary thing
(33:27):
like this has to happen so we can sell the house and blah,
blah, blah. But really feeling physically
like the impact of stress and like, this is not OK.
I do not want this. And and we all hear about the
impact of stress or like in gradschool.
And they're like, stress will kill you.
Here's the video about the mice and the thing.
You saw that one. But I'm like, yeah, you know
(33:48):
what? I don't want to live like this.
And you know, even after this isover, I don't want to be jamming
myself full. Like I want to be able to live
and enjoy life too. Like where's quality of life
without pacing really? I think this is uniquely
difficult for people with ADHD because of the time blindness
(34:11):
thing. I think the other thing I notice
is that nobody realizes they have their whole adult life to
make things happen. And I've got young people in
their 20s who feel like they're failures because they don't own
their own house or they're not married yet or they don't have
kids yet or, and it's like, well, what about your 30s?
Like, what do you think is happening then?
(34:33):
And it's like everyone just can't see past the next five
years of their life. It's like just all like this
vague, blurry, whatever. And I experienced this too.
Like I'm recently an empty nester and I turned to my
husband recently and I'm like, Ijust realized that at no point
have I ever imagined what like how I would be like how old I
(34:55):
would be or what I would look like or what life would be like
at this stage of life. Because to me, when I hear empty
nests, that's like old people. And I don't consider myself old,
even though like by the clock, I'm older than a lot of people.
I'm old. People, they're still older than
you, right? They're still older than me, so
I was kind of like, I thought I'd be like 75.
What is happening now? This is crazy.
(35:17):
What do I do with all my spare time?
Because now, speaking to the routine and the kids before, I
don't have my kids around to organize my day.
Quite literally, I would leave the house at a certain time to
drive my son to high school and then go on to the office.
And so I don't have to do that anymore, which is great, but I
can't tell you how many times I've been late.
(35:38):
Then I'm like running. I'm like the duck paddling
through, like the meme, like running to get my shit and get
out the door. Because he's not here to
structure my day anymore, right?Little bugger off having his own
life, how dare he. But on the timeline, this thing
is like making decisions for healthcare, for example.
(35:58):
Now to receive a benefit 20 years from now seems very like
what? Like what are you telling an
ADHD or to do that seems absurd really.
But the longer you slide into a more normalized pace of life or
healthier balance maybe is a better way to put it, the more
(36:20):
you realize the benefit of that.So like me today, I'm so
grateful for me 10 years ago that made the choices and
decisions she made that allow meto even notice when I'm creeping
towards burnout, even notice that my irritability is actually
not anyone around me. But I have not had a glass of
(36:41):
water in three days. You know, stuff like that.
And I don't know if neurotypicals have the same
problem. Like I remember when I was
leaving one particularly toxic, I feel like is a strong word, a
mismatch of values, perhaps role.
And I was like super stressed out.
(37:02):
I was going to the doctor for routine blood work and I had an
elevated CRP, which is C reactive protein, which is an
inflammatory marker. And my doctor was like, oh whoa,
this is new, this is weird. And I, she had me go back for
retesting like a couple times over a period of 6-7 months that
coincided with me leaving that company and going on to another
(37:24):
role. And my C reactive proteins never
been elevated before, but it waselevated the whole time I was in
this kind of tumultuous place. And six months after I left that
job and was in another job, it was completely normalized again.
And there's no other explanationfor it, that this was just like
the effect of chronic stress. It's kind of crazy actually.
(37:46):
I got to leave this place, goingto give me diabetes, man, got to
get right out of here. What happens?
I mean, it's so that's like excessive cortisol, chronic
stress flooding through your veins and your arteries causing
problems on the inside and then coupled with the natural
accumulation of cholesterol and different fats throughout your
(38:07):
arteries as you just age as a regular, well, not you because
you're a vegetarian, but everyone else as they age, right
and get older as meat eaters, there's, there's just going to
be a certain amount of deterioration.
And then couple that with half of my MyHeritage is Polish and
the other half is West Indian. So there's elevated risks of
(38:28):
diabetes and cardiovascular disease just genetically and
then perimenopause and what a gong show.
Hey, it starts to snowball. And then ADHD, fluctuating
weight, my weight's gone up and down.
Like people I'm sure have seen that.
And the whole gong show. I don't like to sweat, right?
So I used to be like a Total Gymrat, worked out and played
hockey. And then I got to a point in my
(38:48):
life where I was like, I'm done,done all that stuff.
I got to get back into it though.
So I don't get diabetes, right? But yeah, I don't want to speak
I'll of diabetes. It's not just about lifestyle.
It's absolutely genetic, the genetic predisposition to that
stuff, but my whole point is that the ability to pay
attention to all those moving parts requires a lot of
executive function and to pace appropriately.
(39:12):
That's kind of where I start with a lot of clients is the
attunement. Yeah.
Noticing what's going on in yourbody and.
Yeah. How are you living your life and
how does it make you feel? Yeah.
Yeah. So one thing I wanted to ask you
about actually. So you talked about moving this
(39:32):
summer and before you moved, I knew you were moving months and
months and months before you moved because we talked about
it. So knowing that you had, even
though it's a great stressor because it's very exciting and
you guys were moving to a house that you loved, did you change
things to make space for the newstressor in your life, even
(39:54):
though it was just going to be temporary ahead of time?
I want to say probably. I think you did.
I can tell you how I observed you doing it.
Yeah, like I'm pretty good with the packing and storing and
stuff. And we did have the storage
lockers pretty early. And so we were paced in packing
things up before the house, before we showed the house,
(40:16):
right, which was three months before we three or four months
before we moved still. So it was a good of like, I
don't know, 6-7 months of packing ahead of time.
Yeah, getting ready. Yeah.
Did you change your work schedule?
I know you gave yourself like a week off after the move time.
(40:37):
I took two weeks off after we moved, but I don't know because
I was still like, I still have my son for that structure,
right? Like he was.
Yeah. You.
Didn't have him in camps. Pickups and drop offs there's.
One with you, right? Well.
Except in that, well, not duringthe summer.
That's my school year, I. Definitely changed my working
hours. Yes, actually I'm remembering
now that I did, yeah, cuz a lot of clients tend to breakthrough
(41:00):
the summer. Yeah, at least my clients and I
moved. The people who wanted to stay, I
moved to evenings. So I worked three days a week
during the summer, but I did evenings instead cuz my kid was
home. Yeah.
So you did that purposefully, knowing you're adjusting for
your life. I'm.
Adjusting. Yeah, and I mean, I know keeping
him home with me and saving money too.
(41:21):
Yeah, I know there was times when I what I noticed was that
I'd be like, well, let's do it then or let's get together then.
And you'd be like, oh, I'm moving, I'm moving.
And it wasn't like you're movingdate, but it was like the whole
period of time before and after the move was I'm moving.
And I was like, that was beautiful because it was like,
no, I know I need that space to do this thing in our lives, to
(41:43):
be who I am for me and for my family and get this thing done
or whatever. And so you were good, though, at
having a boundary around or protecting, keeping few things
on your plate at that time, which I thought was super cool.
I noticed you doing that for sure.
So I guess that was an improvement in past years.
Yeah. Because it's hard when there's
things you want to do to like doing podcasts with you.
(42:04):
Yes, I want to do that. Yes.
I want to talk to Awesome. People 100%, it's like he's have
to have fun, but it has to be realistic and then knowing that
it's just for a moment in time. But I think like that part where
you start to get to the place where you're planning ahead for
times of increased demand on youand stress by reducing other
things in your life. Then you're in the VIP class now
(42:27):
of ADHD adult life like you havefigured out.
You know yourself. There's no false errors about
what you can and can't do. You know what your capacity is
like. I know what I'm good at and I
know when I'm not at my best. Moving and me do not mix.
Like we will never move. And if we have to move, I need
(42:47):
to be sent away to a place for two weeks and then just, yeah,
come home when it's over becausenobody would recognize me.
I'm not at my best. I completely decompensate.
I, I just don't and I don't beatmyself up over.
I'm like, you can't be good at everything.
I say to myself self, you're good at other things.
You're not good at this. It's OK.
Just remove yourself from that situation.
(43:08):
That's it. I don't want to ever move again.
I don't like it so, but it's theolder you get that's the great
part is you know yourself and then you stop feeling the need
to make excuses for it anymore. Right?
Yeah, it's a OK, can't be good at everything, right?
That's right. I don't know, maybe that's the
most anti capitalist thing aboutme is that I I think here's what
(43:30):
I think. I think that if you're an
employee somewhere, because it'snot everyone has the ability to
flex their work life or work less or whatever, right.
Like for whatever reason, you know, we've, we've made choices
that put us in a position to be able to have that control.
But people, I think there's there's different ways to be
(43:51):
mentally and emotionally at work, to consider having it take
less out of you. And part of that's around
defining your values and who youare at work and what work means
to you. It's important to know your
rights and you're not be taken advantage of at work for sure,
but it's also important to do work that you love.
(44:13):
In my experience, the people whoare struggling the most at work
and having interpersonal conflicts at work or feeling
bullied at work, it's not sustainable.
They actually don't like the work that they're doing.
They're in the wrong job becausea lot of ADHD years, if you're
(44:33):
kind of doing what you love in some form or way or your natural
interests and strengths are workis not your problem.
Working too much is your problem.
That's my problem. I work too much, right?
And so I have to work less to pay attention to the rest of my
life because I love my work and I love all things mental health.
I love all things therapy. I love all things working with
(44:55):
my colleagues doing this podcast.
So for me, my problem is not work and being productive and
getting things done. My problem is tearing myself
away from work to pay attention to both myself, my health,
extended family members. I it's not, there's nothing but
how I feel about them. It's just, it's not novel.
Where is this work? Like the one thing I can say
about being a therapist, which is why maybe there's so many
(45:17):
ADHD years in the therapy world,is that there's so much novelty.
Someone brings me something new every day, many times a day.
It's wonderful. I mean, it's not wonderful that
what they're bringing me is something that's tough for them,
but it's wonderful in the sense they, they're coming to the
right place. I'll tell you that 'cause I'm
super excited to hear about it every single day.
(45:39):
It never gets old, ever, ever, ever.
I don't know if you feel the same way.
You're kind of nodding, but. I hope I feel that way after 10
years in practice. How many years have you been
doing it? I don't know, 3-4?
I feel like you've been doing itforever.
It's another one of those like, I can't remember what life was
like before before. Yeah, I I remember.
(46:00):
I couldn't remember for a while and I didn't want to remember,
but now I remember. I'm grateful for like a lot of
earlier work experiences that I never would have thought I'd be
able to say that, but I am now. There's a lot of full circle
stuff that comes around this time, which is nice.
Well. And I think it's hard for people
to who you know, are struggling to make ends meet and they need
(46:21):
the work to pay the bills and all that might not feel a lot of
opportunity or space to to make a big.
Change, it's very difficult. I think that's the place where
communities have to come together and help each other
out, right? People are too isolated, there's
too many people like raising little kids though, even without
(46:42):
extended family they can rely on.
So I'm putting it out there to everyone I know with a toddler
or young child. Like we are available for
babysitting so we don't go try and adopt A child
internationally. Our ADHD limit to ourselves is
we're not allowed to do anythingbig or major while we are in our
first three months of being empty nesters.
(47:05):
I got it. But I'll come babysit.
I need kids. I need kids around me.
I miss them. Oh my.
Gosh, so difficult. I know one who would love to
visit you. Thank you for talking about
this. Was there anything else you
wanted to say, like a last minute kind of wrap up for
everybody? Because I think this is such a
(47:26):
good survey into starting to think about routine and pacing
and the importance of it and theexpectations we put on
ourselves. Yeah, I guess I want to speak to
capitalism. I think a lot of us go through
the like, capitalist crisis of like, am I going to be doing, Am
I going to be working forever? Am I going to be struggling to
pay the buildings forever? Am I going to be like burning
(47:49):
out forever? And like, you know what if, if,
what's that our friend Jared likes to say?
He's a, he's a reluctant capitalist.
And if we're going to be reluctant capitalist, that means
like, take your lunch breaks, take your 15 minutes, like don't
stay at work unpaid longer than you have to, like claim every
(48:12):
part of yourself that is not part of the capitalist agenda
because. Well, and in doing so, you model
for other people with less powerthat they can do it.
There's a way to do it. That chick did it.
I want to do what she's doing. You know what I mean?
Like being a decent, like don't be that boss that is reading all
your emails on vacation and emailing people at work while
you're on a beach and you're supposed to be with your family.
(48:34):
Don't be that boss, right? Like that kind of thing.
So it is about people in positions of power using, being
self aware about how they live their lives, and knowing that
the people that work for them are looking up to them for a way
to do it. And yeah, I really agree with
that. That's important for sure.
(49:00):
Finding mentors is really important too.
But you got to find people who seem like they know something.
Make friends with them, ask themto mentor you.
Mentors love mentoring. There's no money exchange for
that. That's just a relationship.
By the time people are ready to mentor, they're at a time of
their adult life, usually in their career, where they want to
give back. They want to have that influence
(49:22):
on other people. It's intrinsically gratifying to
them. And those are the people you
kind of want to find to keep in your circle and make friends
with and send them chicken videos and do whatever.
Because. They're mutually beneficial
relationships and it's it's important to you keep them
inspired and they can give you some tips and tricks.
(49:43):
You know, Thank you, Katie, you're welcome as always.
I love these conversations with you.
Or we talk about the lesser known nuances.
If so folks enjoyed this conversation or you want to hear
more of this kind of thing, or you want to chew on it for a
little bit or noodle away, do that and then send your thoughts
(50:04):
to Katie or I. I think everyone pretty much
knows how to reach us, and then we will talk about the other
things you want us to talk about.
I hope everyone enjoyed this episode.
And Katie, thank you for bringing it forward and for
making time for me today. I appreciate it and we'll see
everybody next time. Thanks for joining me today as I
(50:29):
continue to try to make the invisible visible.
My hope is that these conversations help you feel a
little more seen and supported as you navigate your own
journey. If you're curious to
digdeeperyoullfindmoreresourcesarticlesandepisodes@digalittledeeper.caand if something today you heard
stirred something inside of you,please know that reaching out to
(50:53):
a licensed professional can be an important next step.
You certainly are not alone and you don't have to carry it or
figure anything out on your own.I'm Christina Crowe, reminding
you that mental health is health.
Take care and I'll see you next time.
Hey everybody, welcome back to the Christina Crow Podcast where
we connect the dots and search for more balanced mental health.
I'm your host psychotherapist, Christina Crow, and today I'm
welcoming back a psychotherapist, Katie
Richardson, who was my Co host last season and a great friend
to the Christina Crow Podcast and to Christina Crow as well.
(00:29):
We are going to talk about how to slow down, which you might
kind of feel like why do we needa episode?
Tell us how to do that. But we are talking to you, ADHD
adults and ADHD parents. We do need that information.
So welcome, Katie, welcome back to the show.
Yeah, and it sounds really basic, doesn't it?
(00:51):
But it's just so much more complicated than I ever would
have thought. It is.
And like I think that is a ultimate theme of working with
ADHD, both our own, ourselves trying to help other people is
that everything is like a prettybasic instruction for life.
(01:13):
The problem isn't that we don't know this stuff.
The problem is that it's hard toconsistently execute on it.
And I think the other thing I was just talking about this with
somebody else is that when you first, like if you first get
diagnosed with ADHD as an adult,after like a lifetime of like
kind of doing, well, kind of notdoing well inexplicably between
(01:34):
both scenarios and feeling behind or behind your peers or
behind at work, you can't quite figure out why you can't get
anything done. And then, oh, you figure out
it's ADHD and then you go on medication for the first time.
We all of a sudden go through this like, Oh my gosh, I can do
life now. And then I don't know if you
(01:56):
remember what that was so long ago for me, but I distinctly
remember. And then it kicks off this
period of kind of awesome productivity and the sense of
self actualization. It's like all that potential
people told you about for so long.
Now you're actually doing it like it was just up to you.
Like obviously there's a lot of other things that mitigate what
(02:18):
we can and can't do in life if you're not careful, because now
you're doing so much, you get really overloaded and over
committed. And then it's almost like we
forgot, even though you're treated quote UN quote, you
still have an ADHD brain, which means instead of doing less and
being really picky and choosy about the less that you do, now
(02:41):
we're doing the things we like. We're doing things we don't
like. We're doing things on behalf of
other people. We're doing things to catch up
on lost time. We're checking standards we
didn't even check before becausewe couldn't be bothered to meet
them. Now we're trying to meet new
standards. And then you kind of collapse at
(03:02):
some point and you're like, well, this isn't all it's panned
out to me. I don't know if you've had a
similar experience. I'm kind of describing my
experience and some experiences I watch other people go through.
No, it's like, it's like we cramourselves full of stuff.
If we start meds, then it's how we were coping, right?
It's how we're keeping up with everybody or feel like we have
(03:23):
to, to keep up with everybody. And then suddenly, oh, Vyvans,
oh, OK, I can do things now. Great.
Oh, now I should be able to do more things and more things and
more to love. And then we fall back into being
really, really overwhelmed and stressed out and.
Yeah, Yeah, I agree with you. What have you found that like,
(03:46):
why do you want to talk about this today?
Why do you think it's important to talk about?
I don't know exactly when this started becoming like front and
center in the work that I do with clients, but somewhere
along the way I was like, wait aminute, they've got the meds,
they're feeling better and everybody is still over
committing. People don't want to let go of
(04:07):
that. No, and it doesn't help right
'cause that's what capitalism wants too.
It's to make you do more and more and more right.
And time is money. And if you start taking time for
yourself, then then what, right?Yeah, and you and I are both
sort of self-employed and we've both been employees at times.
(04:29):
And as our good buddy Andre Brisan always says is ADHD is
become entrepreneurs because youend up not feeling like you
belong in other workplaces. So then you build your own
company, you build a place whereyou belong, right?
And then if sounds great, like being your own boss.
You can go to a yoga class in the middle of the day if you
want to. You don't have to answer to
(04:50):
anybody. And then the joke is always
like, I work so much more as an entrepreneur now than I ever did
as an employee. Like being an employee somewhere
would be like a walk in the parkat this stage, right?
But but so yeah, it's like it's a catch 22, I guess, as they
say, right? What do you find the hardest
about being self-employed and then trying to keep some sort of
(05:14):
balance? I think for me it has been
underestimating the amount of buffer time I need between
things. OK and having breathing room.
Like it's great that I can set my own schedule and everything,
but just like I was saying, I cram it.
(05:34):
I cram it to the minute and thenall the admin gets blown out the
window and there's no time to breathe.
And then I get home and I've gota hyper kid and a hyper dog and
everybody's screaming and I'm feeling really stressed out and
it's not doing anything for my nervous system.
Yeah. Or I should say that has
(05:54):
historically been the case and Ithink I'm getting a little
better at it. Have you?
Figured out how to deal with allthose things.
Well, I've, this is where the kind of the pacing stuff comes
in. I've been thinking a lot about
the buffering stuff. And, you know, when you're a new
therapist and well, I don't knowif this is the case for
(06:15):
everybody, but when I was into atherapist, the place where I did
my practicum, the owner of that practice said, oh, you could
put, you know, 15 minutes between every session so you can
do your notes and not do that atthe beginning.
I'm like, my brain doesn't switch modes that quickly.
Like it's not enough time for meto switch into documentation
mode and back. I was like, no, I can't do this.
I'm just gonna stack them. When I started building my
(06:37):
schedule, I was like, OK, well, you know, 3 hours, 3 clients.
And you know how we don't get very much support in school
about clinical notes, right? Yeah.
So there's a learning curve. There's a learning curve.
And then one day I was like, oh,you know what, I'm really fast
at notes now. I could probably do it in that
15 minute gap that I needed whenI started.
(07:00):
And so I practiced that over thesummer and I was like, you know
what, I can do this now. So what if I don't have to cram
everything together and I can kind of take my time a little
bit more and get my notes done so I'm not thinking about them
all the time after work. And it's been pretty good.
(07:22):
That's. Actually within the last two
weeks that I'm like, well, this is after we moved, so yeah, all
that stuff, so. You have a lot.
Of that stuff, yeah. But like, only in the last two
weeks where the routine has kindof had a chance to establish
itself, have it been like, oh, Idon't have like, today, like, I
don't have any paperwork to do today.
I'm like, what do you mean? What do you mean I have a whole
(07:43):
day to do what I want? That's beautiful.
And it makes such a difference in my quality of life.
So this week I was like, no, I'mgoing to keep up every day.
And I did. Big difference.
It's amazing. So I OK, so this is a great
example. You and I are both and are
divergent and I have not the opposite experience, but I have
(08:09):
never had a problem doing the notes right after my session,
right? Arguably your notes are probably
they could be better quality than mine, right?
But there's there's things that I I know that if I don't do my
notes in a day like me, the the chances of me coming back four
(08:29):
days later. If I make it once a week where I
sit down and do my notes is likenot good.
That's not going to be a good scene for my brain or me or
anyone else around me. So I know that about myself.
I got to get it done and move on.
I get. Learning that.
Yeah, I can deal with follower things no problem.
But to go backwards to record something that's already
(08:50):
happened, I got to do it right away.
So I'm like still actually in the moment, even experientially
of what I felt like in the session, what I was thinking in
the session, all that stuff proof will be gone.
So I've always known I've neededto do that.
It's a, but what I have done andI've done this, I almost like, I
still think in terms of like academic year, like September to
(09:11):
June and then summer and I make my skin and sometimes then I
think in quarters. But I, I'm constantly tweaking
my schedule because I've got, asa group practice owner, I've got
lots of different hats that I wear and I've never wanted to
give up my clinical hat. Like a lot of group practice
owners stop seeing clients entirely because you become a
(09:32):
business owner at that point andit's a totally different job.
And they do that full time. That's a full time job.
Why would I want to do that? I've been working 2 full time
jobs easily for the last 10 years.
It's a lot, you know, but I don't do them all 100% at the
same time. And I found something that works
for me and I have an amazing team and lots of support.
(09:54):
And it happens to be like the areas I have interest, there are
absolutely administrative thingsthat do not get done because
it's beyond my capacity or my interest, one or the other,
right? And then I have to make myself
not do things that are not necessarily boring.
(10:14):
You know, they're kind of boring, but they're important,
but I don't really, or they're interesting and they take me
away from the boring stuff that I need to get done, yadda,
yadda, yadda, right? But the pacing part is so
important. Like I can't go hard for like a
week and then go easy on the Monday That this and this is the
thing I, I feel like is people think.
(10:35):
So this kind of ties back to your capitalist comment earlier.
People think that because there's like a 9:00 to 5:00
Monday to Friday work week that we as humans are all supposed to
be able to focus and be productive from Monday to
Friday, 9:00 to 5:00 it that it just those two things don't go
together. And so I learned a long time
(10:58):
ago, long. So this is my second career as I
think everyone knows. But long before I did this
career, I accepted the fact about myself that I would kill
it, kill it for like 6 weeks, 8 weeks.
And then I would come to a screeching halt and totally shit
the bad for like a month and then I would kill it again.
(11:18):
And I could be more productive and get more done in 1/4 than
any of my peers because I acceptI get to beat myself up for that
rhythm. I noticed it.
I thought it was odd. I knew that it was different
from how other people around me functioned, but I also knew the
results that I got. So I was kind of OK with it.
(11:40):
And I think my bosses were always OK with it too.
It worked until it didn't work and then I left.
Did something else. But recognizing those intuitive
things that are like important to your rhythm of life and your
sanity are so important to give yourself permission to do.
And that's something I've alwaysadmired about you is you have
(12:01):
always been with me so easily able to say, this is what I can
and can't do based on not only just you, but like, you know
what, what your, what your responsibilities are in your
life. And I'd be like, well, that's
amazing. It's so clear.
It's, there's no wondering aboutit.
It's like this is this is the deal and have you always been
(12:22):
like that? I don't think so.
I don't really remember life before being a parent.
Yeah, I would assume it was verydifferent back then, but.
Are there things that you would do differently if you were not a
parent from a pacing point of view?
I'm having a hard time even imagining imagining what life
would be like. It is weird, I don't really
(12:43):
remember a lot. I don't remember what I did with
all my time. I think I went to the gym a lot
more. I played hockey.
We had more random interests. Having kids really made me have
a routine like the kids. Yeah, because we had to give the
kids a routine. It made me routined.
While having kids is not easy because I had three little ones
all at once, life was actually alot simpler with kids because
(13:07):
they came first, their routine came first, and everything else
came second. And it was what it was.
Yeah, it came with some externalstructure, almost.
Yeah, they gave me structure. They still do.
I really appreciate about them. Can I back up for a second?
Yeah, because I thought of something when you were talking.
I was thinking the way you're talking about, you know, like
(13:27):
the go, go, go, go, go until youkind of know how to gas and then
you spend some time finding a gas station and to charge back
up, then you go, go, go. This is like what?
Kind of like what I hear from ADHD clients all the time,
right? Is that especially with the
hyper focus, they're like, OK, yeah, but you know, when I find
a hyper focus, I don't wanna stop 'cause I don't know when
(13:48):
that's gonna happen again. And it feels like it's a really
bad idea if I stop. So the idea of pacing sounds.
Like. Something that people can't do,
what they feel they can't do 'cause.
It feels good to be doing something that you are
(14:08):
interested in doing and that you're good at doing.
So why would you want to stop, right?
So again, how intrinsically people are like resisting that
idea? Or even like, you know, when
you're in in school and so many of us wouldn't start a project
until the day before it's due, you know, and then it's like go,
go, go, go. No, we can't take a break
(14:29):
because it's actually due in themorning.
Hey, that works till it works until you have other people that
need your attention that night. Exactly.
You can't pull an all nighter. I'm like, yeah, don't fix what's
broke. If it's not broke yet, it'll
break one day, trust me. But like, it's OK.
Like we can pick and choose whatwe're going to focus on.
You know, I think the thing people worry about is they worry
(14:50):
that in that burst of productivity and inspiration and
hyper focus that the thing that is the outcome of that, the
thing they're working on. If you take medication and
become more regulated and steadyso you don't have these big ups
and downs as much anymore. This doesn't happen to me
anymore in that cycle, not the way it did before that.
(15:12):
They won't be able to have that outcome anymore.
Like they'll lose their creativity, they'll lose their
spark, they'll lose their their ability to produce the thing
that they can produce that makesthem special.
And I spend a lot of time tryingto reassure people that no,
that's actually not what happens.
What happens is you remove the shitty time when you're on the
(15:33):
couch for a whole weekend or forweeks at a time, and that comes
back up to a baseline where you're not totally depleted and
you can actually do the amazing things that you do now without
that being a barrier at a more consistent rate.
It's really cool because being treated for ADHD doesn't take
(15:54):
away your strengths. It like reveals more of them,
right? And until you go through the
experience of like trying medication, reaching an optimal
dose, learning about it, whetherit's through therapy on your own
self study, talking to people, talking to your friends,
(16:14):
listening to podcasts, doing webinars, whatever is accessible
to you, that there's no way to actualize this other than just
going through it yourself, right?
Yeah, and you know what? The pace and conversation comes
up too, especially with stimulant medications when we
(16:36):
tend to struggle more with the tear reception bit the like
noticing if you're thirsty or hungry or you know, that your
body needs stuff too late. Yeah.
And I'm like, OK, so it's even more important right now for you
to make sure you get luncheon, make sure or you're going to
have a really, really bad crash later, you know, And to expand
on that further, like if I come back to the day-to-day and you
(17:02):
know, it's funny you mention that because the gas and going
really hard and then going, because that's what I thought
about first when I started scheduling myself is OK, well,
I'll just do clients Monday, Wednesday, Friday and I'll take
the days off in between, but I'mgoing to cram, I'm going to cram
those days full and but I'll have a whole day off after and
it'll be great. If I was your coach, I would
(17:24):
have said no, that's not how we're going to do it.
Exactly, exactly. Because part of it maybe some of
that sounds great in theorem, like, Oh yeah, I'll have a whole
day after to recover and, you know, do whatever I want and be
like, OK, but what if you could feel good every day?
Like what if you spread the lovea little bit?
Imagine that. Every day have some buffer time,
have lunch. Sometimes after a session I just
(17:47):
need to sit and like stare at a wall for a while then like let
my brain rest for a second before I can do anything.
Some just nothing time. Yeah, yeah, I hate productivity
culture. Like the rising crime culture.
I've always hated it though, long before I knew I had ADHD.
(18:07):
Just always rubbed me the wrong way.
I think the capitalist influenceof like, time is money, right?
Like, I can't take breaks in between things.
I can't, you know, because this is, you know, half an hour.
That's X amount of dollars for me or whatever.
Yeah. I I saw this great video not too
(18:28):
long ago and I forget it was a but a like an African culture
and their philosophy of time. They believed that rest produces
time. I like that it produces
capacity. Yeah.
Right. Yeah, yeah.
And so, you know, you can keep going at it and going at it and
(18:50):
going at it and feel frustrated with yourself cuz nothing's
happening. And is that ADHD?
I mean, in part probably, but isthat ADHD or is that, you know,
not giving rain what it needs tobe able to do the thing?
Here's my new idea about the Venn diagram of all this stuff.
OK, because you and I are from slightly different generations,
(19:10):
right? You're Are you an Elgar
Millennial or Midmillennial? I'm a millennial.
You're a millennial, I'm a Gen. Xer.
I'm a Zennial, so I'm kind of onthe cusp, but I'm pretty firmly
A Gen. Xer.
So the anti capitalist awareness, I think, of course
there's Gen. X anti capitalist, but I learn
(19:32):
more about that from you and from my millennial friends and,
and now for sure from my Gen. Z kids.
Absolutely. And so I've learned a lot about
is there ever such a thing as ethical capitalism?
I don't know, like just the impact of work culture and
productivity culture. And if you can get it done in a
four day work week, why the helldo we have a five day work week?
(19:54):
And what does work really mean? And the idea that we should be
able to integrate, I think the pandemic allowing us to work
from home and permission to workfrom home allowed us to balance
family and work and integrate much more.
So we weren't severed like the show severance where you had
your work, personality and life responsibilities.
It was completely separate from your work.
(20:16):
And the work always impeded on the personal, right?
Like our children should never be the ones paying the price for
a corporation making money. Yet that's the systems that we
have. So we work in these systems.
And then there's also this otherconversation that's happening
that's about like the Boomers and the older Gen.
Xers are all mad that the Gen. Z's don't want to work the same
(20:38):
way and have different work values and prioritize their
well-being at work. And that that's like such a big
conversation in business circlesand in leadership magazines and
stuff. I'm fascinated by it.
And then I kind of thought, well, like, there's nothing that
the Gen. ZS are saying that anyone really
(20:59):
can take issue with because theyjust don't want to die for their
job. And is that so awful?
Right. Nope.
Maybe workplaces should be better.
And then the neurodivergent circle now comes to overlap on
my Venn diagram in my head. And I'm like, maybe Gen.
Z is the first truly unmasked generation.
(21:22):
Like we've been talking about unmasking for so long.
Gen. Xers.
I mean, God, it takes a lot to like kind of consider how you
mask as a Gen. Xer in the world.
And, and maybe we didn't have tomask as much because our parents
didn't pay attention to us as much.
So there was actually not very many people to mask to other
(21:43):
than the man, other than the corporate man, the corporate
world. So we mask at work to like get a
hat because that's that's what we were taught right by our
affluent parents. And then the millennials, God
love you guys like one disaster after another in the world,
right. So asking personally,
professionally, academically, everyone's looking at you such a
(22:05):
massive cohort of people in the world.
Our economy is depending on everybody, this ridiculous
amount of pressure and Gen. Z comes along they're like a
screw all you guys. I.
Love it. But they've grown up with
parents who have allowed them tobe themselves, you know, for
better or for worse, and who've,I hope celebrated and who our
(22:30):
kids are and in their individuality.
And they're trying to find theirplaces in the world because it
feels good to do something meaningful and to contribute to
your society and contribute to things.
So it's not about not doing something.
It's about where do you find meaning in the things that you
do? We really believe good mental
health care should be accessibleto everybody.
(22:51):
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I think they're the fully the first really wholesale unmasked
generation. I don't know, because they
really just don't care. They could care a little bit
more about stuff. It's interesting, right?
(23:34):
They're going to save us. All I don't know if you had
parents who are like what they're giving you homework like
what do you mean like home is home, you know, home is for rest
and being with family and. That's what we were like.
I know. Yeah.
Oh, did I tell you these stories?
Like we, I remember when our middle guy was in like, grade 5
(23:55):
and then he'd come home with like hours, like elementary,
like public elementary school, elementary and you know, the
tears and I'm like, this is ridiculous.
And then my husband wrote a noteto the school and says, moving
forward, my child will do work at school.
He's there for 8 hours and he will not be doing this stuff in
the evening. That's protected time for our
family and for us to hang out together.
(24:17):
It's not to run around and go tohockey and go here and go there.
Although our kids of course played sports and stuff growing
up and had extracurriculars, butit wasn't to do school for 12
hours a day. You know, like screamingly
successful by all accounts. So we didn't go wrong with that
strategy, that's for sure. They were able to leave work at
(24:38):
work really early in life. Right.
Oh, my middle guy taught his, teaches me how to relax on the
daily. I come home, he's on the couch.
I'm like, what are you doing? He's like, I'm relaxing.
I'm like, are you kidding me? There's like the the after
school snack dishes are still inthe kitchen.
I'm like, you're relaxing beforeyou clean up after what you he's
like, I'll clean it up after I'mdone relaxing.
(24:59):
So he's got like a set in his mind, a period of time where
this child is going to relax andhe will, he will get up.
So it's not like he doesn't do it.
He does do it. He does it and how he slotted
out his responsibilities for theday and we let him do it.
And so it's actually kind of admirable watching him run his
life because he's very balanced,he's very paced and he schedules
(25:23):
in or appropriately books time for himself to chill out.
And I'm like, he could probably teach a course for every woman I
know. Because imagine you just sit
down and you're like, I'm going to relax now.
That's everyone's homework. And it's not procrastinating
right? Like it's.
It's good nothing time. I got that phrase from Simon
(25:44):
Sinek. One of his most recent podcasts
is the one I sent you. I think with the Star Wars stuff
on it was so good. But he talks about scheduling in
what he calls good Nothing time,where it's literally you just
sit and do nothing. Like let yourself be a bored
human. It's beautiful.
So I actually have a chunk of that scheduled into my schedule
(26:04):
every week now. Rather successful so far.
You know, I wonder if things areshifting and, and this is so
this is my theory cause Nova Scotia is further away from
capitalist central. So my niece and nephew's school
day in Nova Scotia, they start at like 8:00 their school day
(26:26):
and they are home. They are home by 1:30.
Wow, interesting. What do you do with them?
Alaska, right? And run around in the streets.
I don't know. My mother-in-law is watching
them right now and she's like, well it's good because then they
can come home and have a snack and then we can go do
extracurricular whatever and be home for.
Are they in private school or public school?
(26:47):
No, it's public system and I don't know if every school has
the same. It's interesting.
I mean, they say for teaching jurors they shouldn't have to go
to school till like 10:00. Like they should be able to
sleep in in the morning because that's their brains need that.
Like it doesn't make sense with the way schooling is.
It's always just like you like fight the system, damn the man.
(27:09):
But also you don't, you don't want to be squeezed out of the
system. You want to be able to thrive on
some level with your sanity and your values intact and find a
way that works for you. I think one of the things too,
so I didn't grow up with social media framing my expectations of
what work would be like as a teenager or as a young adult,
(27:32):
for example, right. So as a Jetax or whatever I
thought of the work week or workday would be like or family life
would be like was shaped by ATV like 902 one out or Melrose
Place or things that I saw. Well, really, TV is a lot of it,
right? Or people around me or what my
parents did. And so I always kind of had this
(27:52):
idea that I don't know what I want to do for a job, but I know
the lifestyle, like the pace of life I want to live.
And I had a job that allowed me to have a lot of control over my
own daily schedule for like 20 years before I did this job.
And now this job also allows me to do that.
(28:15):
There's been times when I've hadAI have to go to the office at
8:30 and I don't get to leave till five kind of job.
Yeah, but it didn't last long. Where did you learn the cause?
Your mom's a doctor. Where did you learn?
Yeah, not from. Her that value.
I think knowing myself, like being with myself, like it's
something I've always known about myself, right?
(28:37):
Like it seemed cool. And I'll tell you, maybe it's
kind of accidental. My first job after school was
working for a book company that sold the medical or the books to
university bookstores. It didn't last long.
I wasn't ready for a job like that.
The geographical area covered was too big.
(28:57):
But it came with a company car and I had a massive student loan
when I was graduating from university and the amount of my
student loan repayment would have equaled a car payment back
then. So I'm strategic as hell, right?
So I'm like, I need a job that is a company car.
And that I even knew that was a possibility.
(29:18):
It was probably like from knowing different sales jobs and
stuff like that, that I eventually got involved in in
the Pharmaceutical industry. But that was how I did that.
And then because I'm, I'm a goodself starter, like if I have a
goal, I can get up every day anddo it.
Like that's one of my strengths for sure.
I'm doing something new and it'snovel.
I, I'm your girl. I can launch a business, I can
(29:40):
start something new. My problem is finishing it.
It's not starting it. So I just gravitated towards
those things. I would have never applied for a
desk job. Like to me, that just would have
been so boring. Painful.
Yeah, but for those people who love the stability and routine
of that, who it's their nightmare to think about getting
(30:00):
in a car and driving to talk to somebody about a product or a
service and then drive home, andthat's your contribution to the
world. There's people who are like,
that's my nightmare. No way.
And I was like, this is great, get my copy, rolls out my
windows, put sunscreen on my right arm, like, it's all good.
I loved it until I didn't. I didn't do that job for long,
(30:25):
but I did other jobs like that for a long time.
But what what about you? What did you know about how
you'd want to work or what kind of pacing or lifestyle you'd
want to have from as early as you remember thinking things
like that? I don't think I thought too much
about pacing so much as well. Like because my son had so many
(30:51):
unexpected like medical needs and stuff like I, I didn't
actually get, I didn't get back into the world, the real world,
like grad school and back to working world until he was 2
1/2. And at that point I knew like,
OK, I, I do for sure. I want to get back into
something, but I had no intention of ever being like
(31:11):
full time back in something that's kind of where the, oh, I
can just do three days a week would, would come in.
And what they don't tell you about this career is that your
your session hours are not the same as you're like hours
working right now. Like depending on your setup,
every hour with a client is equal to for sure 30 minutes of
(31:37):
administrative time, but that adds up.
So if you see 10 people a week, that's another X amount of time.
And then the problem is, is thatpeople consider their work day
like revenue generating hours isclient time, but they don't then
schedule in the non revenue generating yet important to keep
(31:59):
your license hours within that same time frame.
And that's where a lot of therapists who then now they're
going into business for themselves run into a lot of
trouble without business experience, or they're not going
to work for an agency or anothergroup or hospital or a clinic or
(32:21):
something. They're going into private
practice, which is what allows you this freedom.
But yeah, there's no one educating young therapist or
novice therapist on what it means to run a business.
And the time that is involved inthat, well, it's a battle.
You end up with some scars sometimes.
Yeah. And I feel like I really learned
(32:45):
the hard way how important pace pacing was.
Like most recently, because we were selling the house and it
was, there was just so much happening at once, right?
Like, you know, seeing clients and we were showing the house.
So we had two hours notice to get out of the house with the
kid and the dog and go somewhere, right?
(33:06):
And then my partner went to Australia for one week of that
and it. Oh my.
God, just all these competing stressors all at once.
And then I started having like arrhythmias and.
Yeah, I remember that. It was just like what is
happening right And you feel. Like a 24 hour Holter monitor,
didn't you? Yeah.
And even knowing that that was kind of like a temporary thing
(33:27):
like this has to happen so we can sell the house and blah,
blah, blah. But really feeling physically
like the impact of stress and like, this is not OK.
I do not want this. And and we all hear about the
impact of stress or like in gradschool.
And they're like, stress will kill you.
Here's the video about the mice and the thing.
You saw that one. But I'm like, yeah, you know
(33:48):
what? I don't want to live like this.
And you know, even after this isover, I don't want to be jamming
myself full. Like I want to be able to live
and enjoy life too. Like where's quality of life
without pacing really? I think this is uniquely
difficult for people with ADHD because of the time blindness
(34:11):
thing. I think the other thing I notice
is that nobody realizes they have their whole adult life to
make things happen. And I've got young people in
their 20s who feel like they're failures because they don't own
their own house or they're not married yet or they don't have
kids yet or, and it's like, well, what about your 30s?
Like, what do you think is happening then?
(34:33):
And it's like everyone just can't see past the next five
years of their life. It's like just all like this
vague, blurry, whatever. And I experienced this too.
Like I'm recently an empty nester and I turned to my
husband recently and I'm like, Ijust realized that at no point
have I ever imagined what like how I would be like how old I
(34:55):
would be or what I would look like or what life would be like
at this stage of life. Because to me, when I hear empty
nests, that's like old people. And I don't consider myself old,
even though like by the clock, I'm older than a lot of people.
I'm old. People, they're still older than
you, right? They're still older than me, so
I was kind of like, I thought I'd be like 75.
What is happening now? This is crazy.
(35:17):
What do I do with all my spare time?
Because now, speaking to the routine and the kids before, I
don't have my kids around to organize my day.
Quite literally, I would leave the house at a certain time to
drive my son to high school and then go on to the office.
And so I don't have to do that anymore, which is great, but I
can't tell you how many times I've been late.
(35:38):
Then I'm like running. I'm like the duck paddling
through, like the meme, like running to get my shit and get
out the door. Because he's not here to
structure my day anymore, right?Little bugger off having his own
life, how dare he. But on the timeline, this thing
is like making decisions for healthcare, for example.
(35:58):
Now to receive a benefit 20 years from now seems very like
what? Like what are you telling an
ADHD or to do that seems absurd really.
But the longer you slide into a more normalized pace of life or
healthier balance maybe is a better way to put it, the more
(36:20):
you realize the benefit of that.So like me today, I'm so
grateful for me 10 years ago that made the choices and
decisions she made that allow meto even notice when I'm creeping
towards burnout, even notice that my irritability is actually
not anyone around me. But I have not had a glass of
(36:41):
water in three days. You know, stuff like that.
And I don't know if neurotypicals have the same
problem. Like I remember when I was
leaving one particularly toxic, I feel like is a strong word, a
mismatch of values, perhaps role.
And I was like super stressed out.
(37:02):
I was going to the doctor for routine blood work and I had an
elevated CRP, which is C reactive protein, which is an
inflammatory marker. And my doctor was like, oh whoa,
this is new, this is weird. And I, she had me go back for
retesting like a couple times over a period of 6-7 months that
coincided with me leaving that company and going on to another
(37:24):
role. And my C reactive proteins never
been elevated before, but it waselevated the whole time I was in
this kind of tumultuous place. And six months after I left that
job and was in another job, it was completely normalized again.
And there's no other explanationfor it, that this was just like
the effect of chronic stress. It's kind of crazy actually.
(37:46):
I got to leave this place, goingto give me diabetes, man, got to
get right out of here. What happens?
I mean, it's so that's like excessive cortisol, chronic
stress flooding through your veins and your arteries causing
problems on the inside and then coupled with the natural
accumulation of cholesterol and different fats throughout your
(38:07):
arteries as you just age as a regular, well, not you because
you're a vegetarian, but everyone else as they age, right
and get older as meat eaters, there's, there's just going to
be a certain amount of deterioration.
And then couple that with half of my MyHeritage is Polish and
the other half is West Indian. So there's elevated risks of
(38:28):
diabetes and cardiovascular disease just genetically and
then perimenopause and what a gong show.
Hey, it starts to snowball. And then ADHD, fluctuating
weight, my weight's gone up and down.
Like people I'm sure have seen that.
And the whole gong show. I don't like to sweat, right?
So I used to be like a Total Gymrat, worked out and played
hockey. And then I got to a point in my
(38:48):
life where I was like, I'm done,done all that stuff.
I got to get back into it though.
So I don't get diabetes, right? But yeah, I don't want to speak
I'll of diabetes. It's not just about lifestyle.
It's absolutely genetic, the genetic predisposition to that
stuff, but my whole point is that the ability to pay
attention to all those moving parts requires a lot of
executive function and to pace appropriately.
(39:12):
That's kind of where I start with a lot of clients is the
attunement. Yeah.
Noticing what's going on in yourbody and.
Yeah. How are you living your life and
how does it make you feel? Yeah.
Yeah. So one thing I wanted to ask you
about actually. So you talked about moving this
(39:32):
summer and before you moved, I knew you were moving months and
months and months before you moved because we talked about
it. So knowing that you had, even
though it's a great stressor because it's very exciting and
you guys were moving to a house that you loved, did you change
things to make space for the newstressor in your life, even
(39:54):
though it was just going to be temporary ahead of time?
I want to say probably. I think you did.
I can tell you how I observed you doing it.
Yeah, like I'm pretty good with the packing and storing and
stuff. And we did have the storage
lockers pretty early. And so we were paced in packing
things up before the house, before we showed the house,
(40:16):
right, which was three months before we three or four months
before we moved still. So it was a good of like, I
don't know, 6-7 months of packing ahead of time.
Yeah, getting ready. Yeah.
Did you change your work schedule?
I know you gave yourself like a week off after the move time.
(40:37):
I took two weeks off after we moved, but I don't know because
I was still like, I still have my son for that structure,
right? Like he was.
Yeah. You.
Didn't have him in camps. Pickups and drop offs there's.
One with you, right? Well.
Except in that, well, not duringthe summer.
That's my school year, I. Definitely changed my working
hours. Yes, actually I'm remembering
now that I did, yeah, cuz a lot of clients tend to breakthrough
(41:00):
the summer. Yeah, at least my clients and I
moved. The people who wanted to stay, I
moved to evenings. So I worked three days a week
during the summer, but I did evenings instead cuz my kid was
home. Yeah.
So you did that purposefully, knowing you're adjusting for
your life. I'm.
Adjusting. Yeah, and I mean, I know keeping
him home with me and saving money too.
(41:21):
Yeah, I know there was times when I what I noticed was that
I'd be like, well, let's do it then or let's get together then.
And you'd be like, oh, I'm moving, I'm moving.
And it wasn't like you're movingdate, but it was like the whole
period of time before and after the move was I'm moving.
And I was like, that was beautiful because it was like,
no, I know I need that space to do this thing in our lives, to
(41:43):
be who I am for me and for my family and get this thing done
or whatever. And so you were good, though, at
having a boundary around or protecting, keeping few things
on your plate at that time, which I thought was super cool.
I noticed you doing that for sure.
So I guess that was an improvement in past years.
Yeah. Because it's hard when there's
things you want to do to like doing podcasts with you.
(42:04):
Yes, I want to do that. Yes.
I want to talk to Awesome. People 100%, it's like he's have
to have fun, but it has to be realistic and then knowing that
it's just for a moment in time. But I think like that part where
you start to get to the place where you're planning ahead for
times of increased demand on youand stress by reducing other
things in your life. Then you're in the VIP class now
(42:27):
of ADHD adult life like you havefigured out.
You know yourself. There's no false errors about
what you can and can't do. You know what your capacity is
like. I know what I'm good at and I
know when I'm not at my best. Moving and me do not mix.
Like we will never move. And if we have to move, I need
(42:47):
to be sent away to a place for two weeks and then just, yeah,
come home when it's over becausenobody would recognize me.
I'm not at my best. I completely decompensate.
I, I just don't and I don't beatmyself up over.
I'm like, you can't be good at everything.
I say to myself self, you're good at other things.
You're not good at this. It's OK.
Just remove yourself from that situation.
(43:08):
That's it. I don't want to ever move again.
I don't like it so, but it's theolder you get that's the great
part is you know yourself and then you stop feeling the need
to make excuses for it anymore. Right?
Yeah, it's a OK, can't be good at everything, right?
That's right. I don't know, maybe that's the
most anti capitalist thing aboutme is that I I think here's what
(43:30):
I think. I think that if you're an
employee somewhere, because it'snot everyone has the ability to
flex their work life or work less or whatever, right.
Like for whatever reason, you know, we've, we've made choices
that put us in a position to be able to have that control.
But people, I think there's there's different ways to be
(43:51):
mentally and emotionally at work, to consider having it take
less out of you. And part of that's around
defining your values and who youare at work and what work means
to you. It's important to know your
rights and you're not be taken advantage of at work for sure,
but it's also important to do work that you love.
(44:13):
In my experience, the people whoare struggling the most at work
and having interpersonal conflicts at work or feeling
bullied at work, it's not sustainable.
They actually don't like the work that they're doing.
They're in the wrong job becausea lot of ADHD years, if you're
(44:33):
kind of doing what you love in some form or way or your natural
interests and strengths are workis not your problem.
Working too much is your problem.
That's my problem. I work too much, right?
And so I have to work less to pay attention to the rest of my
life because I love my work and I love all things mental health.
I love all things therapy. I love all things working with
(44:55):
my colleagues doing this podcast.
So for me, my problem is not work and being productive and
getting things done. My problem is tearing myself
away from work to pay attention to both myself, my health,
extended family members. I it's not, there's nothing but
how I feel about them. It's just, it's not novel.
Where is this work? Like the one thing I can say
about being a therapist, which is why maybe there's so many
(45:17):
ADHD years in the therapy world,is that there's so much novelty.
Someone brings me something new every day, many times a day.
It's wonderful. I mean, it's not wonderful that
what they're bringing me is something that's tough for them,
but it's wonderful in the sense they, they're coming to the
right place. I'll tell you that 'cause I'm
super excited to hear about it every single day.
(45:39):
It never gets old, ever, ever, ever.
I don't know if you feel the same way.
You're kind of nodding, but. I hope I feel that way after 10
years in practice. How many years have you been
doing it? I don't know, 3-4?
I feel like you've been doing itforever.
It's another one of those like, I can't remember what life was
like before before. Yeah, I I remember.
(46:00):
I couldn't remember for a while and I didn't want to remember,
but now I remember. I'm grateful for like a lot of
earlier work experiences that I never would have thought I'd be
able to say that, but I am now. There's a lot of full circle
stuff that comes around this time, which is nice.
Well. And I think it's hard for people
to who you know, are struggling to make ends meet and they need
(46:21):
the work to pay the bills and all that might not feel a lot of
opportunity or space to to make a big.
Change, it's very difficult. I think that's the place where
communities have to come together and help each other
out, right? People are too isolated, there's
too many people like raising little kids though, even without
(46:42):
extended family they can rely on.
So I'm putting it out there to everyone I know with a toddler
or young child. Like we are available for
babysitting so we don't go try and adopt A child
internationally. Our ADHD limit to ourselves is
we're not allowed to do anythingbig or major while we are in our
first three months of being empty nesters.
(47:05):
I got it. But I'll come babysit.
I need kids. I need kids around me.
I miss them. Oh my.
Gosh, so difficult. I know one who would love to
visit you. Thank you for talking about
this. Was there anything else you
wanted to say, like a last minute kind of wrap up for
everybody? Because I think this is such a
(47:26):
good survey into starting to think about routine and pacing
and the importance of it and theexpectations we put on
ourselves. Yeah, I guess I want to speak to
capitalism. I think a lot of us go through
the like, capitalist crisis of like, am I going to be doing, Am
I going to be working forever? Am I going to be struggling to
pay the buildings forever? Am I going to be like burning
(47:49):
out forever? And like, you know what if, if,
what's that our friend Jared likes to say?
He's a, he's a reluctant capitalist.
And if we're going to be reluctant capitalist, that means
like, take your lunch breaks, take your 15 minutes, like don't
stay at work unpaid longer than you have to, like claim every
(48:12):
part of yourself that is not part of the capitalist agenda
because. Well, and in doing so, you model
for other people with less powerthat they can do it.
There's a way to do it. That chick did it.
I want to do what she's doing. You know what I mean?
Like being a decent, like don't be that boss that is reading all
your emails on vacation and emailing people at work while
you're on a beach and you're supposed to be with your family.
(48:34):
Don't be that boss, right? Like that kind of thing.
So it is about people in positions of power using, being
self aware about how they live their lives, and knowing that
the people that work for them are looking up to them for a way
to do it. And yeah, I really agree with
that. That's important for sure.
(49:00):
Finding mentors is really important too.
But you got to find people who seem like they know something.
Make friends with them, ask themto mentor you.
Mentors love mentoring. There's no money exchange for
that. That's just a relationship.
By the time people are ready to mentor, they're at a time of
their adult life, usually in their career, where they want to
give back. They want to have that influence
(49:22):
on other people. It's intrinsically gratifying to
them. And those are the people you
kind of want to find to keep in your circle and make friends
with and send them chicken videos and do whatever.
Because. They're mutually beneficial
relationships and it's it's important to you keep them
inspired and they can give you some tips and tricks.
(49:43):
You know, Thank you, Katie, you're welcome as always.
I love these conversations with you.
Or we talk about the lesser known nuances.
If so folks enjoyed this conversation or you want to hear
more of this kind of thing, or you want to chew on it for a
little bit or noodle away, do that and then send your thoughts
(50:04):
to Katie or I. I think everyone pretty much
knows how to reach us, and then we will talk about the other
things you want us to talk about.
I hope everyone enjoyed this episode.
And Katie, thank you for bringing it forward and for
making time for me today. I appreciate it and we'll see
everybody next time. Thanks for joining me today as I
(50:29):
continue to try to make the invisible visible.
My hope is that these conversations help you feel a
little more seen and supported as you navigate your own
journey. If you're curious to
digdeeperyoullfindmoreresourcesarticlesandepisodes@digalittledeeper.caand if something today you heard
stirred something inside of you,please know that reaching out to
(50:53):
a licensed professional can be an important next step.
You certainly are not alone and you don't have to carry it or
figure anything out on your own.I'm Christina Crowe, reminding
you that mental health is health.
Take care and I'll see you next time.
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