Embodying Polarity: Mackenzie on Masculine & Feminine Energies Through Drag

In this episode of The Circle, Timothy Bish and Eric Bomyea are joined by Mackenzie, a drag entertainer, philanthropist, and artist. Mackenzie shares their journey of navigating the balance between masculine and feminine energies, using drag as a powerful tool for self-expression and transformation.

Together, they explore breaking societal norms, navigating gender expression, and using drag to embody both strength and softness. The conversation unpacks how embracing polarity can deepen authenticity, creativity, and connection while challenging traditional binaries.

Episode Transcript

Timothy Bish (00:04):
Welcome to The Circle, a queer men's
conversation about men's work,men's embodiment practice, men's
spirituality, and men's personalgrowth with an emphasis on how
queer men can participate,benefit, serve, and lead in
these spaces. My name is TimothyBish.

Eric Bomyea (00:19):
My name is Eric Bomyea. Welcome back to The
Circle. Today, we're joined byMackenzie, a drag entertainer
and philanthropist who's raisedover half a $1,000,000 for local
charities here in Provincetown.Mackenzie is a director, writer,
producer, and proud Capricornsharing queer neon joy in a dark
world. In this episode, we'llexplore how Mackenzie's drag
journey helped them navigatemasculine and feminine energies

(00:41):
revealing new facets of identityand self expression.
Tim, Mackenzie, are you ready togo all in on this neon love?

Mackenzie Miller (00:48):
You better believe it, baby.

Timothy Bish (00:49):
I am.

Eric Bomyea (00:50):
Let's do it. Alright. Let's go. Mackenzie,
you've channeled your drag intoeverything from fundraising to
creative performances. Could youstart by sharing what first drew
you to drag and give us a quicksnapshot of of who you are and
what you do?

Mackenzie Miller (01:02):
You got it. Well, thank you so much for
having me. I'm so honored to behere at the circle with you 2. I
found drag, probably at theearliest age possible. I think
being a child of of the lateeighties, I was born in 88 in,
Alaska.
So we didn't have a lot as faras entertainment goes. But I
will never forget sneaking outof bed one night when my parents

(01:24):
were watching a movie, and thatmovie happened to be missus
Doubtfire, everyone's favoritenanny growing up. And that was
really my first understanding,even before I think I knew what
was happening as far as thisexpression of drag. I saw this
insanely over the top woman whowas there to care and nurture
for people that she loved, andshe did it in such a funny and

(01:45):
just personalized way that hadme rolling on the floor even
though I wasn't supposed to bewatching this at all from the
top of my little, staircase.But, it it definitely left an
impact.
And as I, you know, as lifecontinued on, I was more
familiar with Tootsie. And Ithink there was an episode of
Full House where Danny Tannerand uncle Jesse end up in drag
at some point. So it was verynatural for me to see these

(02:08):
these characters and these thisportrayal of drag, even though
it was a very certainunderstanding of drag at the
time. But it was always socomedic to me, and it it really
gave me a lot of joy to see. AndI I wondered why there wasn't
more of it in the world.
And then it wasn't until I wentaway to college, at the Boston
Conservatory, Goboca, where itwas for musical theater. So, of

(02:29):
course, stepping stones, you youknow there's gonna be some drag
elements

Timothy Bish (02:32):
into that. But, I

Mackenzie Miller (02:33):
really found drag when I I was asked one of
the first days, by a professorwhat we wanted to do with our
our theater education. And Isaid I wanted to break gender
norms. It was just somethingthat as as a child, I I was so
ready to do. And she told methat I could never do that
because I was too husky. Andthat I was always a kid that if
you told me to not touch thestove, well, let's find out why.

(02:57):
And this really broke open sortof anything that was holding me
back as far as discovering whatthat gender expression was
because I was so ready tofucking prove this bitch wrong,
And I have done just that. 17years later, I have the most
fabulous neon career. I get tospread queer joy all over the
country and hopefully the worldsomeday. But I'm so content
being right here right now withmy amazing queer community and

(03:18):
just making people happy.

Timothy Bish (03:20):
Can you, give me a little insight into how you
might describe a gender norm?How it how it occurred to you
and what what made you want tobreak it? Just in case listeners
aren't entirely clear.

Mackenzie Miller (03:32):
Absolutely. So I I grew up in Alaska and I I
grew up in a very binary family.I had mom who was sort of the
stay at home mom. I'm a triplet,so there were 2 more of me. So
my mom was there to take care ofthe litter.
We grew up in Alaska, and my dadwas definitely the the awesome
breadwinner of the family. Hewent out and he worked, as hard
as he could. I believe he ownedhis own, heating duct company at

(03:54):
the time, and he he was aprovider. He was someone I mean,
we very much lived off the land.We were hunters, and so he would
go out there for his weeks longof of gathering our meat for the
winter.
And we were we were at home mostof the time with mom, and I had
2 very heterosexual brothers,but they were identical. I was
fraternal. So even down to acellular level, I was always

(04:17):
kind of my own being. I alwaysdid my own thing. But we
definitely had a very binaryunderstanding of the the the mom
was at home taking care of thefamily and the dad was out being
a rough, tough, just Alaskandoing his thing.
And I'm very lucky. I grew upwith 2 very supportive parents.
My mom is is just one of themost incredible, just champions

(04:38):
of of life. She has such a lustfor life, and it was it was one
of a a superpower, really, thatI I looked at from she was so
soft and just found the good inabsolutely everything. And then
I had my father who, again, it'ssomebody who's so full of love,
but as a queer person who reallystarted to show that they were
uninterested in a lot of more ofthe masculine type things, like

(04:59):
the sports that my brotherswould be involved with.
And more often than not, it wasa majority type situation where
it was, like, do you guys wannaswim or play baseball? And
usually, it was baseball,baseball. And I was, like, well,
I wanna swim. But I got outoutnumbered, so we were
swimming. And then finally, mymy parents did acknowledge that
I needed something to stimulateme a little bit better as far as
my interest.
So they didn't really loop ustogether after too long. But,

(05:23):
yeah, it's for me, I Idefinitely grew up understanding
a very binary world. I mean, thethe men took care of of the
family. The the woman stayedhome to make sure that
everything was beautiful and andlovely and and tied with a
beautiful little bow. And Ireally valued both of those
understandings and perspectiveof life.

(05:44):
But I also, like I said, I wasone of those kids that the
minute I was told that I had tobe in this box or I had to
express myself in a certain way,especially when those little
things as a as a queer kid,like, you would want, like, the
pink necklace when my brotherswanted court guns, and it was
usually kind of shunned away of,like, well, no. That's not
that's not what you're gonnaget. Like, what do you well, I I

(06:05):
always wanted an aerial Barbiewhen I was 3, and I was never
gonna get an aerial Barbie. Butthanks to my aunts, I got an
aerial puzzle. So it was it wasalways something that I pushed
the boundary with in just myunderstand because I never
understood why why I wasn'tallowed to have these things
when it was something thatbrought me joy, and why wouldn't
you ever want your child to tofeel that joy and feel something

(06:26):
that they love and wanna takecare of.
But I I pushed through because Iwas taught that that was just
kind of how it was. But it wasit was something that as I
really started to come into myown as a queer person and and
really understand more of whatthat vocabulary was that I was
prepared to push the boundariesand little did I know I was
going to for the rest of my lifeand career. I don't know if that
answers your question.

Timothy Bish (06:46):
It absolutely does. I'm actually gonna
follow-up question though is,like, was there at that time
when you I'm I'm thinking nowwhen you were speaking to your
professor and, like, what it isyou want to do, a particular
kind of expression that youwere, like, I want to be able to
express in this way or withthis, you know, medium, and and
if so, why?

Mackenzie Miller (07:07):
Great question. I think will you
repeat that back for me one moretime?

Timothy Bish (07:12):
Yeah. So the question is really, you said you
want to break gender norms.Mhmm. And I'm and, like, I'm
wondering if that moment in yourlife, was there a particular
kind of expression that youwanted to to be giving or
bringing? And I'll give you someyou know, I was a I was a
professional dancer, and I hadbeen given the the education

(07:33):
that, like, men are not supposedto do that.
That's not like a thing thatboys do or men do it. You know?
And there was a hunger for me tobe like, but I feel this in my
soul. Right. And I really want,like, to be doing this.
And so that was like itpropelled me into taking risks I
might have otherwise not takenbecause I'm like, the only way
I'm gonna get to dance is if Ikind of go against the guidance

(07:54):
of my parents or or or, youknow, break some of the, like,
family structure. Yeah. And soit's a sort of along those lines
of, like, did you have a thingthat was like, I just have to
get this into the world? Or wasit different than that?

Mackenzie Miller (08:08):
I think I mean, as I as I was thinking
about this question when youwere expanding on it further,
something that popped into myhead was, this image of Jessica
Rabbit when I was young. And mybrothers just kind of had that
cartoon, like, heart in theireyes of, like, this They

Eric Bomyea (08:24):
they were the wolves

Timothy Bish (08:25):
in the audience.

Mackenzie Miller (08:25):
My god.

Timothy Bish (08:26):
Awooga. Like

Mackenzie Miller (08:26):
Yeah. Truly, this Awooga moment. And I
remember just comprehending whatit is that they they were trying
to express, and I didn't get it.I didn't get it at all. And
then, you know, years later, Iwould figure out, it's like, oh,
I didn't wanna fuck her.
I wanted to be her. And so sortof this beauty there there was
something always so magnetizingfor me about a strong, fucking,

(08:47):
badass bitch who stands on herbusiness, doesn't take shit from
anyone. And it was really thissort of opportunity for me to
say, like, oh, that is somethingthat I I would like to explore
more of. I would like to see.Can I be that badass bitch that
owns this shit fucking shit?
Like, are we allowed to swear onthis, by the way?

Timothy Bish (09:05):
That's okay. Great. Yes.

Mackenzie Miller (09:07):
But it's, yeah. For for me, there was
totally this moment of I wantedto express myself in a very
strong, sexy, but not weak in byany means, and just a powerful
way that I knew I already hadwith the body that I have. I'm a
6 one, 215 pound Alaskan Dutchguy.

Eric Bomyea (09:25):
Mhmm.

Mackenzie Miller (09:25):
And but there was something so empowering
within myself to be able to thenput on that stocking or that
pair of heels, especially forthe first time. Because there
was so much shame that was sortof built up over time saying
that, like, I couldn't do that.I wasn't allowed to feel this
way. I wasn't allowed to expressmyself in any sort of feminine
kind of expression, and it itbecame my biggest superpower.

(09:49):
Not to go back to your guestwith Phil Jimenez last week, but
it was it truly felt like thissort of armor that you could put
on, and it just accentuatedevery ounce of my confidence.
Any sort of anxiety I had abouthow I presented myself was
obliterated, and I needed more.And while I've dabbled in a lot
of drugs in my life, that was myfavorite.

Timothy Bish (10:10):
Well, I will say this 1st and foremost, we can
always talk about superheroes ifyou want. Great. And there there
are a lot of traditions thattalk about queer people as
having a capacity. You know?Oftentimes it would be the queer
person who would become, like,the shaman or the or the sort of
spiritual leader of a tribebecause of this, capacity.
I think the word in Hawaiian is,maho, but I can double check,

(10:33):
like which, like, described akind of person that had this
sort of ability to experienceboth the masculine and feminine
kind of blend and flow throughthem. And I have often in my own
life thought it actually doesfeel like a superpower of a
kind. Like, the an ability torelate and understand and
express in ways, that it feltlike the other boys that I was

(10:54):
surrounded by, like, couldn't orweren't, you know, doing.

Eric Bomyea (10:58):
Yeah. What I'm interested in is this,
activation that happened, thetransformative nature of, like,
putting on the stockings and theheels for the first time and
this, superhero that came out ofyou that was sexy and powerful
and how that may contrast fromyour, the story you told about
your mother. Your mother soundsnurturing and soft. And so I'm

(11:21):
interested now in the duality ofof, like, femininity,
masculinity, and the blend thatcan happen in drag, you know.
And so do you wanna unpack thata

Mackenzie Miller (11:30):
little bit? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, definitely,
my mom is just fucking regal asshe is. I love you mom so so
much.
She also there was a a series ofpictures. My family was
definitely somebody who keptjust crates of photos. And even
photos from when my my parentswere teenagers and I loved going
through them and just imagining,like, well, my parents were

(11:51):
kids. And for as soft and gentleand just just such a mega babe
that my mom is, I came acrosssome modeling photos of hers.
And she was a smokeshow.

Eric Bomyea (12:05):
Okay.

Mackenzie Miller (12:05):
So, like, this beautiful, just

Eric Bomyea (12:07):
Come on, mama Miller.

Mackenzie Miller (12:08):
Just my hero in life was this stone poop fox.
And she like, if I had had thatconversation with her, and even
to this day, she's so hard onherself. She's like, oh, I don't
wanna FaceTime because I justfeel horrible about and it's
like, you are g like, the mostbeautiful thing, not only inside
and out, but, like, she she hadthat sort of just that fire,

(12:30):
even when she was a teenager andand and beyond that, she she was
so fucking beautiful and had noidea. But she I definitely think
that she probably and forgive meif I'm totally wrong, mom, but I
she probably played it down alot. I think she was one of
those people that had no ideaactually, like, how stunning she
was.

(12:50):
But, I mean, she landed abeautiful husband and had 3
beautiful children, so she'sdoing well.

Timothy Bish (12:55):
Do you think there might be a pressure there? Do
you think that, like, to be acertain kind of woman, you had
to treat your level of sexinessor attractiveness in a
particular way? And if and if Iand I don't know the answer, but
I'm just curious, like, if awoman were to, like, fully
embrace her sexiness, like,would that bring risk of, you

(13:16):
know, perception that she mightnot want? I

Mackenzie Miller (13:19):
I I think that's that's a a great
question. I will never pretendto understand the the female
experience. I definitely, as adrag artist, know that I I am
not a woman, and I can't everspeak truly to it. I do I just
want everybody, no matter whoand how they identify, to feel

(13:39):
that power of unlocking yourinner just beast. Whether I
mean, I think that no matter howit it is dressed or how you you
express that, I think that thereis such an inherently beautiful
and sexy power that comes withknowing your worth.

Timothy Bish (13:56):
And

Mackenzie Miller (13:56):
if you can throw a little sparkle on that
and dress it up and justaccentuate a little bit more, my
god.

Timothy Bish (14:01):
Well, it sounds like authenticity. That's what,
you know.

Eric Bomyea (14:04):
Beautiful authenticity with glitter and
sparkle.

Timothy Bish (14:06):
So much. Like,

Eric Bomyea (14:08):
it really is.

Mackenzie Miller (14:09):
I'm banned from a few spaces for all of
those things.

Eric Bomyea (14:12):
So I want to go back a little bit and start to
create a kind of sharedunderstanding of what we might
be meaning by masculine andfeminine. Absolutely. Because, I
wanna go back to also the theduality of like the soft and
nurturing and strong sexy.

Mackenzie Miller (14:28):
Mhmm.

Eric Bomyea (14:29):
Right? And like how sometimes we look at like
masculine things as like thestrong things and feminine as
like the softer things. So, whenI hear about like your drag
persona kind of like blendingthese things Yes. I start to get
this mix this mix of ofenergies. And so, Tim, I wonder
if you can just, take us to alittle educational moment and we

(14:51):
can have a conversation aboutwhat it is we are talking about
when we talk about masculine andfeminine energies.

Timothy Bish (14:56):
Yeah. So in in the men's workspace and the
spiritual personal growth spacesthat I've been in, we think of
these in, like, polarity. And sowhen I was first introduced to
it, the words masculine andfeminine were tricky for me,
because as a young queer boy,feminine was like a dangerous

(15:16):
thing. Mhmm. You know, like, andso I resonated because I was
already an acupuncturist at thetime with this idea of yin and
yang.
But same idea. Right? So, like,the idea of, like, light and
dark. Right? And then on thatpolarity, like, all these
different shades that kindaexisted within them.
Hot and cold. Right? Hard andsoft. You know, all the you
know. And that's why, like, theChinese medicine, Tai Chi, it's

(15:39):
sort of always blending intoeach other because there's
always both.
Mhmm. In the in the Chinesemedicine system as I understood
it, and one of my teachers toldme, if you're a 100% yang or a
100% yin, then you're dead.Because because life required
that there always was some inthe other. That's why in the Tai
Chi, there's the dots. Yeah.
Because there's always yin andyang, and there's always yang

(16:01):
and yin. That is I had

Mackenzie Miller (16:03):
never thought about it.

Timothy Bish (16:04):
Yeah. And so and so when we when we speak about
masculine feminine, it's like onthis on this, like, sort of
polarity. Mhmm. So there's nofrom these perspectives, like,
not good or bad. It's just sortof like, oh, well, if it's light
and then if it's dark Mhmm.
And then all the things that canexist in between those two
things.

Mackenzie Miller (16:22):
Right? You kinda have your definite, like,
it is and it is, but thenthere's that spectrum in between
of where

Timothy Bish (16:27):
exactly does everything lie.

Eric Bomyea (16:29):
So I'm now curious, Mackenzie, like, how do you
relate to these concepts as, youknow, they relate to your
artistry?

Mackenzie Miller (16:35):
I acknowledge that they're there, and then I
blow it out of the water. I, Idefinitely I mean, I I am a very
healthy balance. You know, Ikinda feel like I fluctuate.
There are definite times wherethere is more masculine energy
or then there's more feminineenergy. But, to kind of go back
to a little bit more with withwhom I am as a as a drag artist

(16:56):
and the way that I expressmyself.
If you've seen me before, you'llfind, especially in more of my
adult, shows, that more oftenthan not, I'll start the show
either butt naked or veryclosely too. You have dressed me
in so many of those beautifuloutfits. But I've I've learned
through especially discoveringwho I am as a drag artist and,

(17:16):
that connecting with my body, Iknow that I'm never going to be
female. I'm no I'm not going forthat hourglass shape like the
Jessica Rabbit that I alwayswanted to be. But I embrace the
the beauty that is my male body,and it wasn't always like that.
I definitely before I I had avocabulary for more of the the
binary and the non binary andand just gender expression in

(17:39):
general, I understood gay,straight, bi, and trans. And so
there was a time where I I'mI'll be completely transparent
that there was a black markethormone situation. I thought I
was who I knew through my drag,like, being trans fit, and it
felt powerful, and I wanted toexist there forever. But over
the years when, I mean, I hadamazing support through that, I

(18:02):
kinda had a second coming out tomy family, but I really started
to understand more of who I wason that gender spectrum whether
it was, you know, masculine,feminine, female, male, that I
didn't have to be an extreme oneor the other. As you kind of
said, if you're a 100% of 1 orthe other, I don't wanna say
you'll die, but, I mean, therewas definitely so much more to
life that I needed toexperience, whether it was

(18:24):
masculine or feminine.
And it's for me, to just kind ofget it out of the clear clear
the air when when it comes to aMackenzie show, you're gonna see
a pretty much naked personbecause then we build on it from
there. You see a what I believeis a very beautiful male body.

Timothy Bish (18:40):
Mhmm.

Mackenzie Miller (18:41):
And it's then we then we add to it. We start
to to enhance and put on thewigs and put and it but it it
starts at this very clean sortof canvas that I think
obliterates any sort of quip.Well, is that a man? Is that a
woman? Like, are they trying togo for that perfect deluded?
It's like, no. This this is whatI have to work. This is my
temple. This is something thatI've existed 36 years with on

(19:02):
this planet. Kept it alive,watered it pretty darn well, and
it's I I just and drag helped meget there.
This was I was never somebodywho would be naked in a room
full of people who then alsopaid money to see this. And
it's, like, holy like, what anempowering moment to realize
that your pure, genuine, justlove for the body that you have

(19:24):
is a superpower. And it then Imean, you the minute you see it
all aside from a very wellplaced flower or or anything
when it comes to a Mackenzieshow, just kind of sets
everybody on the same sameplatform, the the same level
that it's like, this is it. Thisis what you're gonna see. Now,
you can pay attention to theart.
Mhmm. And then, by then, I mean,we start to explore all sorts of

(19:47):
masculine and feminine. I mean,I love pulling out both parts. I
love being both the masculinecum bubble. Bubble.
Winters are long. Yeah. But,yeah, a very feminine just

(20:08):
bubblegum pop voice that thathonestly, I I was was like,
well, who's gonna play the otherpart? And I was like, well, what
if you just fucking play both?Then you don't have to pay
anybody, and you can just have alot of fun with it.
And it really is it's become oneof my favorite ways of
expressing myself. It's justleaning into both elements of
the masculine and feminine.

Timothy Bish (20:28):
You had

Eric Bomyea (20:28):
a beautiful performance last Friday night
that you did play both roles ofa of a love situation.

Mackenzie Miller (20:34):
One of

Eric Bomyea (20:35):
my favorites. It was heartbreaking to see. It was
it was a beautiful performance.

Mackenzie Miller (20:39):
Thank you.

Eric Bomyea (20:40):
And so, I'm curious like when you go back to that
professor that basically said,you can't do it. You're too
butch.

Mackenzie Miller (20:46):
Mhmm.

Eric Bomyea (20:46):
Right? Like, was the Mackenzie we see today,
like, was that you then?Definitely not. Definitely not.
Definitely not.

Timothy Bish (20:55):
So did

Eric Bomyea (20:55):
you feel a pressure of like how you should do drag
back then?

Mackenzie Miller (20:58):
Oh, so much. And that that was actually
really the first year that whenI had that interaction with that
professor, that had to beSeptember. I mean, I've been out
of school for a long time.That's when we started school.
Right?
September? Alright. So it wasdefinitely one of the first
weeks of of September or yeah.And, god, that was 2,007.

Eric Bomyea (21:15):
7. Yeah.

Mackenzie Miller (21:16):
Yeah. So, of course, in the moment, like, you
know, I I'm never someone wholikes to push back or or argue.
I love very comfortablesituations until 2025. We're
fucking shit up. But, let's go.
But, yeah, I I I kind of was adoormat. If you told me
something, it was, oh, I'm sosorry that I ever would consider

(21:36):
upsetting the the the way thingsare supposed to be. You're
right. I'll sit down and shutup. And I think in that moment,
I did because, I mean, as shortas this professor was, she was
very intimidating.
And I just didn't I kinda wantedeyes to be off me. It was
already kind of an uncomfortableI had the bravery to even say
that, and I had a few thingsthat was, like, oh, I wanna
originate a role on Broadway.But I really wanted to push

(21:57):
something as far as gender. Sothe minute that was shut down, I
kind of definitely had this,like, okay. Yeah.
Yeah. For forgive me for everdreaming of something like that.
But very much in the samewonderful just situation of
circumstances. I was then askedto be a part of the Broadway
Cares Equity Fights AidFundraiser drag show that the

(22:19):
Boston Conservatory holds everyyear. And freshman, I believe I
don't know what the situation isnow, but freshman kind of were
never really a part of it.
I believe it was more of, like,the older classes, but I was
hell bent on getting into thejust to prove myself, like, even
if I wasn't in anything, like,just throw me in the background
in a dress, and I will be happy.And it didn't help that there

(22:40):
was a very cute boy that I alsojust really wanted to be around.
So that was kind of my, like,first entry into being, like,
this is still a program withinthe school. Like, this teacher
can't really, like, touch me onthat one. And then it was all, I
guess, uphill after that becauseI I'd never known such a joy
than putting on that pair ofludukas and that little dress

(23:00):
that really didn't fit me at thetime.
And I think we did, all I do isdream of you the whole night. I
don't even know what show that'sfrom. But I remember nailing the
choreography in our first showso well and being so proud of
myself. And I had this, like,really bad sort of 19 nineties
wig. I mean, it was, like, veryTara Reid from, like, American

(23:21):
Pie.
And I thought I was such hotshit, and you couldn't tell me
anything. And even I mean, thatthat was the first time that I
really had kind of pushed backagainst being told that it
wasn't gonna be something that Iwas allowed to express or or or
achieve. And that was sort of,like, that just the definitive
moment where that the ice beganto crack and that sort of

(23:42):
indestructible ability to thenexplore this world that I was
told I really couldn't became anabsolute possibility. And here I
am 17 years later.

Timothy Bish (23:53):
So there's a there's a, a fundraiser and I
think that they benefit BroadwayCares Equity Fights AIDS now,
called Broadway Backwards. Haveyou have you heard of this?

Mackenzie Miller (24:00):
I have heard of Broadway Backwards.

Timothy Bish (24:02):
So I actually did this. No way. I did this, you
know, towards the end of mycareer, I did it. And it it is
the the idea behind it is that,you take songs typically done by
women and give them to men Yes.

Mackenzie Miller (24:14):
And then

Timothy Bish (24:15):
men give them to women. And so I was fortunate
enough to do, There's Gotta BeSomething Better Than This from
Sweet Charity. Right? But I Ibring it up because there was
this really fun energy of beingable to, like, perform a song
that you would otherwise as aBroadway performer, I was never
gonna do that. Never

Mackenzie Miller (24:33):
get the opportunity.

Timothy Bish (24:34):
It was just not gonna happen. I mean, I think
that might be changing now with,like, performers like Jinkx
Monsoon, which A great At thetime Jinkx. Yeah. At the time,
that was not gonna be possible.Yeah.
And the power that I think thatexists in, like, where you get
to dip your toe in this. Like, Igot to be I got to be sweet
Charity. Do you know what Imean?

Mackenzie Miller (24:54):
Like, and It's so fun. In that moment, I mean,
where where was your heart andyour soul and your mind when you
had that opportunity to dosomething that you were never
you were always told couldn'thappen? What what what was your
state of being?

Timothy Bish (25:08):
Okay. My state of being was, like, I'm one of the
things that I am at, like, asoul level is a dancer. Yes. And
when I think about all of theincredible performers who have
played the role of Sweet Charityand, like, the videos you've
seen, like, on the rooftop and,like, the dresses and you're
Absolutely. You're like, I justlike I have chills.
I mean, the thing is we weren't,like, we weren't dressed we
weren't dressed as women. Wewere men, you know. Of course.

(25:31):
But I'm just sort of like I wasI was like, I'm on the rooftop
and I was performing with, 2really talented performers. They
they had the lion's share of thesinging, but we were just like,
oh, I get to be on that rooftop.
This

Mackenzie Miller (25:42):
is your moment.

Timothy Bish (25:43):
I get to do the thing. Like, it was really fun.

Mackenzie Miller (25:47):
Hell, yeah.

Timothy Bish (25:47):
It was really fun. And I see Empowering. Like, take
a glimpse into this other thingrather than saying like, oh,
that's I'm not supposed to dothat.

Mackenzie Miller (25:54):
Right.

Timothy Bish (25:54):
I would've done it. I wanna I wanna dance
America in a dress. I

Mackenzie Miller (25:59):
Let's go. Let's go. Let's do it.

Timothy Bish (26:01):
I think that I think that we could yell back
choreography. I actually know wecan.

Eric Bomyea (26:05):
Is that your is that your number this Friday?

Mackenzie Miller (26:07):
No. No. Can it be? Can it be? We'll start
rehearsing right next week.

Timothy Bish (26:11):
We need more rehearsal time. Because I wanna
nail it. I wanna be Absolutely.Yeah.

Mackenzie Miller (26:15):
There's, yeah, there's a few definitely, like,
Broadway gems that well, let'stalk because I I don't wanna
touch it until I know it's gonnabe fucking cool.

Timothy Bish (26:22):
No. But it has to be so good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. Okay. That's a totallydifferent We got you. We got
you.

Mackenzie Miller (26:27):
We'll put a pin in that.

Eric Bomyea (26:28):
But I I love it. So hearing the story of, like, your
first performance and startingto, like, crack that shell.
Right? And it also sounds likeit lit a fire in you where it
said, like, that firstperformance may have been a
little bit more traditionallyfeminine.

Timothy Bish (26:41):
Mhmm.

Eric Bomyea (26:41):
Right? Like, it is a little bit more like wig,
heel, dress. Uh-huh. Right? TheMackenzie we know today
sometimes does that.
Yeah. Sometimes.

Timothy Bish (26:49):
Every once

Eric Bomyea (26:49):
in a while. Right? But, like, most of the time is
in a very different expression.Mhmm.

Timothy Bish (26:55):
And

Eric Bomyea (26:55):
so I wanna know a little bit more about from point
a to point b and kind of thatjourney that it's brought us to.

Mackenzie Miller (27:00):
Absolutely. I I mean, when I started drag,
believe it or not, there was, Ithink, we were, like, 6 months
after the release of season 1 ofDrag Race. There was no, like,
YouTube tutorials, like, wigswere not readily available. So
there were the empire that it isnow was not readily available.
And it was so wonderful to tryto just really pick the the

(27:26):
tools, I guess, that I couldcollect over time and, you know,
there were I was so grateful toto be kind of moving around,
like, I had the 4 years inBoston.
I was back and forth in Seattle.I was in New York. I was in
Provincetown. And I I'm sograteful. Another thing that my
mom taught me was to just be asponge when it comes to
learning.
Don't pretend like you knoweverything, which I do feel that

(27:47):
nothing against our youngerqueens. But there's a lot of ego
that has come from a lot ofthese younger queens and I want
you to be fabulous. And I wantyou to have that ego. It'll take
you a really long way. But also,like, learn.

Eric Bomyea (27:59):
Humility is also a superpower.

Mackenzie Miller (28:00):
No kidding. No kidding. It's it's it's like a
currency, like, kindness andhumility. I mean, you you can
learn so much by listening tothese girls, by picking up tips
and tricks. I mean, there wereso many things that I I was told
much like that college professorthat I had, that in my drag
experience, especially as ayoung young booger queen, that I

(28:22):
had no idea what I was doing.
I had ideas of what it lookedlike and how it should be
expressed in order to be asuccessful drag queen, but it
kind of fell on that binaryidea. It was, like, if you're
not gonna tuck and you're notgonna cinch and you're not gonna
wear the boobs, it's, like, whatwhat use are you doing? Like,
what what why why why drag? Butthen, as I got to know these

(28:43):
girls from all over the country,all different cities, there was
always, you know, the veryalternative girls. There the
girls that the freedom queensthat didn't that didn't
necessarily adhere to those thenorms, I guess, it was of drag,
and I I gravitated to thembecause there was something so
honest about them and how theywanted to still convey a

(29:03):
beautiful drag essence, but thenthrow a little grunge in there
and throw in something that,like, I found that a lot of the
the beauty of Mackenzie the dragqueen is that the beauty is in
the imperfections.
Like, there's gonna be a lot ofmoments where that didn't
necessarily tie up all the wayor that didn't zip up all the
way. But, oh, my god, I look sogood. And it's gonna come off

(29:25):
anyway. So, like, what And

Eric Bomyea (29:27):
and, honestly, some of the most iconic moments that
I remember of your performancesare in those imperfections and
how you go with the flow Mhmm.Which, as part of men's working,
the vernacular that we use hereis a very feminine practice of,
like, just being able to, like,flow

Timothy Bish (29:43):
Mhmm.

Eric Bomyea (29:43):
With whatever is happening in that moment. So,
like, your stage presence,right, like, has that ability.
And so do you also have that inyour, like, everyday life to,
like, you know, be able to,like, you know, take something
that you weren't expecting andjust kinda, like, go with it?

Mackenzie Miller (29:55):
Yeah. It's I never was that type of person
until, honestly, after sobriety,in my life. I was I was a go
with the flow person, but it wasa reckless go with the flow. It
was, like, we're gonna go withthe flow, but it's because the
drinks are flowing and I can doanything. But, I think once I
really got in control of my lifeand took back my life and was

(30:17):
able to live as purely and aswonderfully as I am these days,
I think that there kind of hasnaturally entered a more go with
the flow because I feel moresecure and more safe in knowing
that where we flow and end up toisn't going to hurt me or hurt
me.

Timothy Bish (30:37):
I feel like you just gave us a really beautiful
and I wanna hear from you if youagree, a really beautiful
teaching about the masculine andthe feminine. Because when you
were talking about your sobrietyjourney, and by the way, thank
you for sharing that. Yeah. Itsounds like while while you were
drinking, what I heard was thatthere was, sort of a lack of the
masculine structure. So therewas a lot of flow, but it could
be chaotic.

(30:57):
So the image that we use inmen's work is the river and the
riverbanks. The riverbanks arethe structure. It's the
masculine. The water is thefeminine, and they but they are
both necessary in order to havethe river. It sounds like in
your sobriety journey, then youwere able to use that clarity to
create the structure into whichyou could flow without chaos.
That's what I feel like I'mhearing, and it feels like you
just so thank you for being,like, a a men's work guru right

(31:19):
now. I mean, come on. I mean, itit just it was beautifully,
example. Thank you.

Mackenzie Miller (31:26):
Thank you. Thank you.

Eric Bomyea (31:27):
And I think the same thing can be said maybe
about the the stage performanceis creating the structure of,
like, okay. I know that thisnumber is 4 minutes, and I have
my post.

Timothy Bish (31:35):
Mhmm.

Eric Bomyea (31:35):
I'm gonna start to create the container in which
then I can flow into. And sowhen things happen within that
container, you're able to gowith the flow.

Mackenzie Miller (31:44):
Go with the flow.

Timothy Bish (31:44):
Well, there's this other saying in men's work, and
this is what I feel like maybeyou exemplify as a performer,
the, a tight plan loosely held.So you you walk on and you're
like, I I know what it issupposed to be, but I also know
that I can then flow in thatsupposed to be and go with, oh,
it's not fully zipped up or it'sor it's falling off or you know?

(32:05):
And then and there's a It

Mackenzie Miller (32:06):
will fall.

Timothy Bish (32:06):
And then there's a beauty in that because then
you're like, oh, well thensomething you could never have
planned

Eric Bomyea (32:10):
Mhmm.

Timothy Bish (32:10):
Gets an opportunity to be expressed,
truly. Like, how lovely that is.

Mackenzie Miller (32:14):
It feels really genuine and, like, you're
really seeing something uniqueand special. I mean, I'm off
like, I don't wanna take awayfrom any sort of professionalism
that I there are so many girlsthat do amazing things because
they have this down to ascience. Mhmm. But there's such
a natural sense of I don't wannasay, like, clownery that comes
with drag and myself. Like, I'mnever gonna take myself too

(32:36):
seriously.
I take myself very seriouslywhen it comes to my art, but
that seriousness in that momentis always going to be a joke.
It's going to be there's gonnabe something funny. There's
going to be something and evenif it's not, like, with that
number on Friday, I I wanted toto convey a heartbreak while
still also giving you permissionto to look and say, I don't know

(32:58):
what I'm looking at, but I feelreally connected to this
heartbreaking story. There'sstill elements of I mean, you're
I was a Perot clown for God'ssake, and I was waiting for my
lover to come home from the warand he died. The audacity.
But, you know, there there'selement that you I still keep it
this beautiful light fluffinesswhile still trying to maybe tell
something that is is heavier ormasculine, I guess, in the I

(33:20):
mean, does that

Eric Bomyea (33:21):
There's a little tragedy to it and bringing in
that lightness, the humor, the,like, playful seriousness or
serious play. Yeah. Right? Like,that it is still a full
expression of you and of whatyou're trying to communicate.
And so I think that's a reallybeautiful element of it is the
the unapologetic expression

Timothy Bish (33:40):
Mhmm.

Eric Bomyea (33:41):
That wants to be birthed through you.

Mackenzie Miller (33:42):
Yeah. Yeah. That's sorry. Con continue.
Yeah.
That was that was

Timothy Bish (33:47):
my thought. Beautifully said.

Eric Bomyea (33:50):
Mic drop. So on that note on that note, there's
a lot of vulnerability, andyou've expressed a lot of that
vulnerability both from a, like,emotional, like, putting your
soul out on stage as well asyour body. And so I'm curious,
exposing these parts of yourselfthat others might not expect,
how has vulnerability shapedyour art and your personal
journey?

Mackenzie Miller (34:10):
Oh, my gosh. Great question. I definitely I
know I was a very sensitive notwas. I'm a very sensitive
person. It's just somethingsomething that I I do believe I
thankfully gained from mymother.
It has given me such an insightand connection with so many

(34:31):
wonderful things in the world,and I'm forever grateful for it.
But with that, can kind of comethe negative that comes with
that because oftentimes you'reconsidered weak. And oftentimes,
I also think that vulnerabilitycan can be linked to what people
believe is weakness as well. ButI without vulnerability, I would
never be able to tap into thisinsane imagination that I've

(34:52):
been given. I think that for alot of my life, especially in
that binary that we kind oftalked about, that being told no
or no, you can't wear that, no,you can't have that doll, no.
That any sort of thought thereafter that, there was a lot of
shame that came with wanting toexpress myself in that way. And,
I mean, drag has saved my lifebecause I it's basically my

(35:15):
therapy. Anything that I want tobe able to convey or tell you a
story with, I've I've been ableto. But vulnerability has placed
such a key part in that becauseI'm able to tap into things that
I've never really experiencedper se. I've never had a lover
go off to war and never comehome, and I've never lived in 19
Paris, like, but I'm so excitedto to go there and to to know

(35:37):
where my what story it is that Iwanna tell, and especially
through a sense of vulnerabilityhas always allowed me to be
successful in sort of thatcreation process and really
allow myself to to embrace someof that shame that I felt, but
also turn it around andliterally make it fuel to kick
some serious ass.

Eric Bomyea (35:58):
That was right. That's right.

Timothy Bish (36:00):
I think a lot of people think of vulnerability as
potentially a weakness, but Ithink we are learning and
discovering now that it isanother superpower. Because one
of the things aboutvulnerability is its honesty.
You know? Well, I I think Ithink about this example of,
like, the knight getting in thearmor, and you'd be like, oh,

(36:20):
well, you're gonna be vulnerablein, like, these places. Right?
That's like, an honest awarenessof, like, well, then I need to
be mindful of these parts of me.It's a really honest thing. And
so for me, vulnerability is asuperpower and it requires
unbelievable bravery.

Mackenzie Miller (36:36):
Yes. And care.

Timothy Bish (36:37):
Yeah. Yeah. Because

Mackenzie Miller (36:38):
Invest in it.

Timothy Bish (36:39):
Exactly. Because it is I'm gonna show you all of
me. And and in that showing is arecognition that, like, part of
my humanity is that I am I'mcapable of being hurt. Yes. If I
if I give you my heart, if Ireally give you my heart Mhmm.
Then you could hurt me with it.Yes. And then I have 2 options.

(37:03):
I can I can pretend that you'renot hurting me or I can always
keep my heart and never reallyfeel you know? So it's like, oh,
that vulnerability is such apower and I think the world is
hungry for it.
And, like, I think part of ourjob, and especially
entertainers, is to is to helpus, like, understand how it can

(37:23):
look

Mackenzie Miller (37:24):
Absolutely.

Timothy Bish (37:24):
And what it can do. So thank you, by the way,
for bringing it.

Mackenzie Miller (37:27):
Hey. My pleasure. I think too that and
I've I'm so lucky to have suchan incredible circle of queer
artists in my life and and justmy queer community that have all
expressed in their own journeythat a sense of vulnerability
welcomes others, especiallythose that may not be able to
express themselves, but justthat if let me see. Let me make

(37:50):
sure I get all these ideastogether and packaged
beautifully. But if if I givemyself permission to dress in a
certain way that otherwise Iknow that if I leave the house,
it's gonna be looked at funny.
Or it it may garner some kind ofresponse and it may not be
exactly the most positiveresponse. There are times that
I'll even leave Provincetown andand think, oh, I probably

(38:11):
shouldn't wear that. Or I and Ihate that we exist in that kind
of world, but we do. Butsometimes, I have to think that
it's not just for me. Eventhough I do everything for me
first, that my expression andthat vulnerability that I take
out into the world givespermission for those that do not
and may not have the opportunityto want to or to to to be able

(38:33):
to express themselves.
It gives them permission to knowthat they are seen and that
there there are others out therejust like them. And I can't I
can't even even count on myfingers and toes how many times
that just that one bit of of alittle bit more expression or
color or sequin, go into themall. Well, just give permission

(38:54):
for that that teenager who'scloseted, who doesn't doesn't
feel safe anywhere. That it'salmost like this beacon of I've
I've been personally, like, hadbeen handed notes or somebody
that just says thank you forbeing here. And that is
something that I I will I I wantto be a positive source for
anyone out there who who'sexperiencing their own shame

(39:17):
about how they expressthemselves or being able to be
vulnerable or just express theirgender identity or or I'm
getting so many thoughts in myhead right now because I just
love this subject so much.
But I want I want everybody toknow the safety and feel the
safety and confidence that Ihave worked so hard to achieve
because I've tapped into asecret nirvana that I think

(39:38):
everybody in life needs tounderstand because you're gonna
be so much happier for it.

Timothy Bish (39:43):
Well, you're you're talking about giving
permission and I think it is oneof the most powerful things that
we can do and one of the ways inwhich we can best serve our
queer community. And I I wannajust draw to the men's sharing
circle. So now we inProvincetown on Monday nights
have a a sharing circle. Andit's the space where, we have a

(40:03):
topic, but we get each man getsto share from his own life and
have the the practice ofspeaking and being seen and
being heard, and then other menare reflecting back. And so much
comes purely just from listeningto another person share openly
about a thing, and thenimmediately, you have a room
full of people who are like, I'mI I thought I felt alone, but

(40:26):
I'm actually not.
But you're not. But, like, itfelt really lonely. I thought I
was the only one, but guesswhat? I'm not. Yeah.
So every time you're like, oh,you felt sad, you're not alone.
You felt powerless? You're notalone. Like, you've had moments
of doubt? You're not alone.
And and so that's I feel likeyou're speaking to that in a
really powerful way to be like,oh, you wanna express yourself

(40:46):
differently than you than whatculture is telling you you can?
Mhmm. You're not alone.

Mackenzie Miller (40:50):
You're not alone, baby.

Timothy Bish (40:52):
And then, like, and then when you try it, fuck
yeah. You know, like like

Mackenzie Miller (40:57):
Once you've dipped that toe in, babe, I'm
like, come on. The water isfabulous.

Eric Bomyea (41:01):
And I think that there's such a power in
expressing vulnerability. But,like, your knight example of of
saying, like, these are myweaknesses, and this is where
you can hurt me. Right? Requiresa tremendous amount of trust.
Yes.
Trust that the person thatyou're exposing this
vulnerability to and that couldbe the world. You're exposing to
the world your vulnerabilitywhich means you can get hurt.

(41:25):
But when you when you work onthat and you start to express
that vulnerability and that trueexpression of yourself and you
learn over time that you're notalways gonna get hurt. I think
it starts to condition us to saylike oh I can be a little bit
more comfortable. Absolutely.
With this. I can put on thisbracelet. I can put on this pop
of color. I can like do a littlebit more expression bit by bit

(41:49):
by bit because I'm now trusting.I'm learning to trust that when
I express myself, when I bringout my vulnerability, that is
not always gonna get hurt.

Mackenzie Miller (41:57):
Correct.

Timothy Bish (41:58):
And then when you when you do get hurt, if you are
surrounded by people and you'vebeen in the practice of
vulnerability, you can feel lesslike a failure. I think
initially, especially sometimesin love, you're like, oh, I gave
someone my heart. I got hurt. II failed. I did something wrong.
And you're like, failed. I didsomething wrong. And you're
like, yeah. Yeah. Never again.
And it's you're totally. And andinstead, it's like, well, no.
That's like we're all human. Soit's and then so now I can bring

(42:21):
greater greater empathy andcompassion to those who are hurt
around me because I'm like, Iremember how it felt for me to
get hurt. But also, I'm hurt.
I haven't I haven't failed. I'mnot I'm not losing or I'm not
weak because I'm hurt. I'm justhurt because I'm human.

Mackenzie Miller (42:37):
That's sadly human. That's that's, yeah. I'm
to hopefully piggyback off ofwhat you've just mentioned, it's
something too that I think a lotof I I I need and almost wanna
require everybody in the worldto experience drag in one way or
another because it is it tapsinto, like like, we've talked

(43:00):
about this vulnerability. But Ialso feel that people will
always fear something they don'tunderstand. Mhmm.
And it's it's why our transcommunity is under attack. It's
why our our our queer communityin general is something that is
very much under attack. I don'tcare what anyone says. This next
administration is going to be adisaster, for our community. And

(43:22):
I pray that every single personthat I love in this world is
safe and is sound, but it scaresme because there is so there is
so much hate out there forsomething that people don't
understand.
And now, I'm not saying, like,go be trans for a little while.
It's like, just see it, like,you what you what I'm
encouraging everybody to do isto not run from it or not be
afraid to interact and and talkto these people. There there are

(43:47):
so many brilliant incrediblybeautiful LGBTQAI plus on every
sort of spectrum you canimagine, especially when it
comes to the binary or gender oryour mind, your brain, anything.
It's I encourage every singleperson out there in this world
to get to know have aconversation. It's where that
seed can be planted to start tounderstand a little bit more.

(44:09):
Because there's only we'rerunning out of love in this
world, and I hate to see it. ButI wanna just encourage everybody
to find that beautifulopportunity to to express
yourself in a way you neverhave. Because you might just be
sitting on top of a gold minethat literally is your fountain
of youth. It's something thatcan keep you going forever and
and I just don't be afraid ofthings you don't understand. And

(44:31):
we'll

Eric Bomyea (44:31):
and we'll unlock more love.

Timothy Bish (44:33):
Yes.

Eric Bomyea (44:34):
Because I think that when we fear that there's
not gonna be enough love andmaybe that we have something
within us, right, that we're notfully tapped into, that we're
not tapped into the security ofthe world. Mhmm. Right? Or
something within ourselvesthat's preventing us from living
our fullest, most authenticself.

Mackenzie Miller (44:50):
Yeah. Feeling like you're not worthy of it.

Eric Bomyea (44:52):
Correct. And so like like you said, like, if you
can just, like, tap into that alittle bit, I think the the
fountain that you unlock isactually love and the spreading
of love and joy and the morethat we can interact with it and
we can see it. And I credit youas a major inspiration for my
own ability to, like, own myauthenticity of, like

Mackenzie Miller (45:12):
Thank you.

Eric Bomyea (45:13):
Seeing that that presence that you have on stage
and the expression of yourselfand the fullness of your
expression has really given me alot of permission to tap into
parts of myself that I didn'trealize.

Mackenzie Miller (45:26):
Go baby.

Eric Bomyea (45:27):
Go. And, like, you start to activate and you start
to wake it up and you start tobring it online. And, like, what
pours out of you is love andlight. And then you see how that
can ripple out to others. Andyou can start to see how, like,
just by encouraging a little bitof color, a little bit of
exploration can unlock a littlebit in them, and then they can

(45:47):
unlock a little bit ofthemselves.
So Absolutely. You know, I thinkjust spreading that that love
and light, you know, I wannathank you.

Mackenzie Miller (45:56):
Absolutely. Thank you.

Eric Bomyea (45:57):
And it's something that I think that if we can,
allow ourselves and to all ofour listeners, allow themselves
to familiarize themselves, notlike not like you said, not they
don't not everyone has to dodrag, but can you bring
curiosity into it to to startto, you know, tap into your
empathy to relate to somebody,right, and to start to, like,

(46:19):
maybe experience something thatyou didn't experience before.

Mackenzie Miller (46:22):
Amen. Yeah. And if anybody needs any drag,
please let me know. I'd be morethan happy to loan out the 1,000
of pounds I have of that in myhouse.

Eric Bomyea (46:30):
Your closet is pretty impressive.

Mackenzie Miller (46:32):
Thank you. Still maintained too. It's not
it's not a complete disaster.

Eric Bomyea (46:36):
Alright. How are we feeling? Is there any topic that
you'd like to explore, Tim?

Timothy Bish (46:41):
I just wanna wrap up with what you were talking
about earlier in this, like,what's gonna happen to our
community in this in thisupcoming administration. It
really feels like the hate isfrom fear. So I think it's so
important for all of us tocontinue to express, continue to

(47:02):
show up, so that the more peoplesee, the more people they
experience, the less I thinkthey'll hate because the the
more they'll know there'snothing to fear. There's nothing
to fear. What's interestingabout like, I made this joke
with some of my, yoga studentswhere I'm like, sometimes they
paint this picture of of, like,queer people.

(47:23):
And I'm like, the picturethey're painting sounds like way
more intricate and interestingthan we are. Like, I'm like, oh,
I go to work. I go to thegrocery store. Like like, it
makes it to, like, oh, I'm likeunder the bridge, like, with my
pitchfork, like, doing all thesethings. I'm like, no.
I'm I'm like, I'm paying mybills Yeah. Or or not. Just

Mackenzie Miller (47:39):
like all

Timothy Bish (47:40):
of you. Yeah. Mhmm. I go into the grocery
store and, like, and we, youknow, we just want life's, lives
of purpose, and relationshipsthat that matter and, you know,
so we have to show that. And andthen to be able to show it in a
way that, like, makes peoplelaugh and cry Yeah.
And sing along and dance, thisis the power of entertainment.

(48:03):
This is why theater is a kind ofmagic Truly is. In my my
experience.

Mackenzie Miller (48:08):
Absolutely. I wouldn't trade this career for
anything in the world. It isdefinitely it's my favorite
thing I've ever done, and I'vedone a lot of things on this
planet. But, yeah, it is it'swhy I'm here, and it's what I'm
gonna keep doing. And that'sbringing joy to and love to
people all over the world.

Eric Bomyea (48:24):
I love it so much. Beautiful. Thanks. Well,
Mackenzie, thank you so much forbeing here with us, spreading
your light and positivity andjoy, getting to know you a
little bit more, getting to knowyour backstory. We covered some
topics of masculine and feminineexpression.
We got to talk aboutauthenticity and vulnerability
and just tapping into the thetruest parts of ourselves and

(48:45):
what that can do, to helptransform the world. So I've
appreciated this so much. If youcould leave our audience with
anything, what would it be?

Mackenzie Miller (48:54):
Anything. Pay your taxes.

Timothy Bish (48:55):
Yeah.

Mackenzie Miller (48:58):
I would also say, give yourself permission to
get uncomfortable. But theminute you don't limit yourself,
you reach the best euphoria youcould ever understand. So go out
there and just be your bestauthentic self. Push the

(49:18):
envelope, baby. Your existenceis a revolution.

Eric Bomyea (49:22):
Beautiful. Alright, Tim. How are you feeling?

Timothy Bish (49:25):
I feel complete.

Eric Bomyea (49:26):
Will you take us out?

Timothy Bish (49:27):
I will. Let's close our eyes. Take a deep
inhale through the nose. Gentleexhale through the mouth. And
just with deep appreciation andgratitude for this circle, for
any insights that may have comefor the laughter, the learning,
the exploration, that we openthis container.

(49:47):
It is open, but not broken.Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Thank
you so much for joining us herein the circle.
If you'd like to stay connectedto us between episodes, please
follow us on Instagram atqueermensembodiment. Like,
subscribe, rate, and reviewwherever you find podcasts. And
as we leave now, I wish youbrotherhood, connection,

(50:09):
authenticity, vulnerability,safety, and love. And with these
words, our container is open butnot broken. Uh-huh.