Reclaiming Fitness: Queer Strength, Body Image, and Self-Love | GBTQ+ Wellness with Matt Boyles - The Circle: The Queer Men's Embodiment Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Timothy Bish (00:04):
Welcome to The Circle, a queer men's
conversation about men's work,men's embodiment practice, men's
spirituality, and men's personalgrowth with an emphasis on how
queer men can participate,benefit, serve, and lead in
these spaces. My name is TimothyBish.

Eric Bomyea (00:19):
And my name is Eric Bomyea. Welcome back to the
circle. Today, we're thrilled tobe joined by Matt Boyles,
founder of Fitter Confident You,a fitness platform created
specifically for gay, bi andtrans men. In the queer
community, there's often hyperfocus on how our bodies look,
sometimes at the expense of howthey feel or move. Matt has made
it his mission to help queer mennot only build strength and

(00:41):
confidence but also foster areal relationship with their
bodies beyond aesthetics.
We're exploring queer body imagetoday, the challenges of body
insecurity, how societalpressures create addictive or
avoidant behaviors, and how safespaces and embodiment practices
can help us feel morecomfortable, secure, and at home
in our bodies. So, Tim, Matt,are you ready to go all in?

Matt Boyles (01:03):
Yes. So ready.

Alright. Let's do this. So, Matt, I just wanna
start with your journey. Whatinspired you to create Fitter
Confident You? And how did youcome to recognize the unique
challenges queer men face whenit comes to body image and
fitness?

Lovely question and thank you both for being, for
sure. Thank let's do that again.Lovely question and thank you
both for the opportunity to joinyou and be part of this because
I was listening to the otherbeautiful episodes you put out
and I think what you what you'rebringing to the world is really
amazing and much needed.

Thank you.

My journey echoes, I would imagine, many men like
me in that I grew up not likingsport or fitness. I went to a
school that was very rugbyfocused, and I was a very
skinny, spindly child who,funnily enough, didn't like
being beaten up in the mud twicea week in winter. And, in

(02:03):
nineteen eighties ruralWorcestershire in the middle of
The UK, there was very littleprovision for any other support
for fitness or sport. So if youweren't in the a team, and I
definitely wasn't, you were inthe rejects team, it felt like.
And the teacher who took itwasn't really interested either,
so you halfheartedly did thesePE sessions and just felt like

(02:24):
rugby and sport and fitness waswhat other people did.
And at the time, what the coolkids did, because we had a very
successful rugby team whoactually did go on to play for
England for the country. Soyou're we we're left to bask in
their glow and feel more andmore like rejects. But I sort of
made peace with that and wentthrough school and did other

(02:44):
things, and I was fairly brightand had some other interests.
But sport fitness, no no, sir.And then went to university and
discovered drinking, and I waslike, this is fun.
Who needs fitness? Explored thatside first of all and, like,
tried a gym session, hated itbecause it just felt terrifying,

(03:05):
then left it for a few moreyears moved to London didn't
know what to do fell intomarketing which was okay and I
met some lovely people and gaveme lots of useful skills but it
wasn't until a friend said ohlet's try this boot camp and
nowadays the word boot camp maystrike fear into the hearts of
people but in 02/2006 actually Ididn't really know what it was

(03:27):
and the the joyous thing was itwas outside and the more I did
it I discovered you you weren'tyou weren't in competition with
people It was just about thesheer joy of using your body and
I've got faster and fitter and Istarted sleeping better and
feeling better about myself andrealize and I started to realize
Oh fitness doesn't have to feellike how I thought it would so

(03:48):
it was a really big turningpoint and then after that I did
try another gym and got luckyand happened to find a gay
personal trainer who reallyhelped me feel comfortable there
and realize I was welcome thereand that actually just with a
little bit of knowledge a bit ofcompetence my confidence there
would grow and it did.
So I started getting moreconsistent with my fitness, my

(04:10):
workouts, feeling all thedifferent ways it was helping me
feel better. Fast forward, quitmarketing, became a personal
trainer. That was, oh mygoodness, fourteen years ago.
And at first, I was a verytraditional trainer. I stood in
the park, trained people face toface because back then that was
it was work there or work in agym, basically.

(04:32):
But then seven years ago, I hadseen the rise of some online
trainers and thought, oh, that'sinteresting. Maybe I could do
something like that. But it wasalso at that around that time, I
realized the power that of myown fitness journey as a gay
man. I'd found my voice myconfidence my boundaries I'd set
up a fitness company andrealizing like a lightning bolt

(04:55):
hang on there are other gay, bi,trans, queer men out there that
were like me, but seven yearsago and would like potentially
to get started, but don't feelrepresented by the fitness
industry, don't see themselvesin in, like, any of the sports
and fitness stuff out there,feel intimidated in hyper
masculine environments. Maybe Icould be the person to, with

(05:17):
kindness, baby steps, andsupport, help them get into a
routine with it because itchanged my life and I knew it
could change theirs.
And so seven years ago was whenI moved online and that was when
it really took off becausefinally people understood who I
and who I understood, who Ispoke for, and what and that the
relevance of my journey to them.And then, yeah, I'm so grateful

(05:40):
that I did because I adore whatI do, and I'm so grateful so
grateful to Matt from sevenyears ago to taking that plunge,
but also for the opportunity towork with amazing GBTQ plus guys
for how the business has evolvedand literally bringing me in
front of you two right hereright now. Mhmm.

Thank you so much for sharing that. The things
that I heard was, one thing wasfeeling more comfortable in a
non competitive environment.Another thing that I heard you
say was a focus on how it felt,during the workout. And then I
heard you say the possibility ofsomeone being intimidated by a

(06:18):
hyper masculine environment andcreating something that was
other than that. And so I'mwondering, when we think about
things like heavy heavilycompetitive or hyper masculine,
and you mentioned rugby, like,do you feel like there's, like,
an aggression or, like, a toxicsort of quality to this to some

(06:39):
fitness that is off putting forsome?

100% and that was exactly what put me off for so
long because every time I lookedat doing fitness again it felt
exactly like it did back atschool even if I was ten years
older, 20 older. It felt like aserious boys club for serious
boys doing fitness seriously.And I'm not a serious boy. I
wanted to enjoy myself. I didn'twant it to feel stressful or

(07:06):
like I was being picked lastagain last again.
I've and the the beautyespecially of moving online in
the last seven years, my like,the blinkers have fallen away
from my face and all thedifferent ways that we can
support each other and growcommunities and find fun,
interactive, inclusive ways tomake sure everyone has a seat at

(07:26):
the table and everyone is startsto everyone starts to realize
that they can do fitness ontheir terms. There's no one size
fits all there's just youfinding your groove and the
fitness industry used to be sorigid it was no pain no gain it
was you have to burpee till youpuke and again none of this is

(07:47):
me. And I I guess over theyears, I've learned that
actually, I've learned to pushmyself. But, again, this is me
on my terms. This isn't doing ithow I'm being told you have to
do it for success.
And I wanted to give as manypeople as possible just options.
Life is better with options,don't you think?

Absolutely. I just want a full disclosure. I am
someone I would identify as afitness enthusiast. I love
fitness. I feel very comfortablein those spaces, but I was
trained in very particularthings.
So I was a professional dancer,so ballet class, modern dance
class. I was a swimmer,sometimes track and field and
volleyball. I was always reallyathletic and simultaneously

(08:29):
super uncomfortable with whatanything that felt aggressive,
especially because I was such ayoung small boy, small little
gay boy in Western Pennsylvania.I'm like, if you have the
opportunity to tackle me, itdoesn't matter how strong or
stable I am. These some of theseboys in were so much bigger than
me and, like, it feltintimidating.
It felt unsafe. So I had boththis love of movement and

(08:52):
fitness that I still have. Butat the time, a real fear of
anything that felt like itinvited domination or even
potentially it felt and also asa little gay boy in school for
me, sometimes it's like, oh,this feels like a sanctioned
opportunity for that bully tobeat me up a little bit. And
that doesn't feel safe. Thatdoesn't feel good.

Yeah. That you've hit the nail on the head. And
when I mean, puberty is toughfor everyone everyone. But when
you factor in, oh, hang on. Whydon't I fancy girls?
Why do I feel different toeveryone else? So you've got
these extra things swirlingaround. And when you become 12,
13, 14, more aware of the outerworld, as amazingly supportive

(09:32):
as your personal family andgroup of friends might be, you
start to become aware ofviolence against people like
you. Mhmm. And then so whensport and fitness, which is
meant to be something good, alsofeels like it, well, of course,
it's gonna feel off putting.
Of course, people are gonnacarry that into their twenties,
thirties, forties, fifties. I'mspeaking with clients in their
sixties who still feeluncomfortable in the gyms. And

(09:54):
so often it's to do in part atleast that throwback to not
feeling comfortable and safe atschool when we're learning how
to be. So this is inheritedtrauma. This is generational
issues that hold us all back.
But it doesn't have to.

Yeah. And listening to both of your stories, I'm
relating a lot to to my ownstory of, you know, being very
averse to many physicalpractices, especially anything
that had to do with acompetitive nature of of other
playing with other boys in a waythat wasn't using my intellect,
like a strategy game, I'm good.Right? But if it involves, like,

(10:33):
the body or brawn, like, I'mgonna probably take a back seat
approach because I don't Ididn't feel comfortable in those
scenarios. And so what I loved,what I heard you say, Matt, was
kind of this this, like, babystepping into fitness and
working with that edge little bylittle by little.
Because I even to this day, if Istart to feel that I am exerting

(10:58):
myself physically too much, likegetting to the point of doing
burpees until I puke, there is apart of me that gets really
triggered still. Mhmm. That getsreally like, I'm gonna just give
up. Like, I'm more of a give upperson than I am, like, pushed
through it. And, like, I willcome up with any excuse to just,
like, back away.
And so I'm curious, like, howhave you worked with your own

(11:21):
journey through that? And how doyou now work with your clients
through things like that?

For myself it was finding friends both gay and
straight who I could share theexperience with and whether it
was going to a gym together andhaving a gym buddy and as soon
as a gym can feel superintimidating to anyone but if
you walk in with a friend it itmore than halves that any
embarrassment or stress becauseyou you you support each other

(11:51):
so brilliantly and there's thatkindness and understanding you
can joke and and soften it aswell. So, like, I knew instantly
the power of people to make whatI wanted to do more possible and
something that would bit by bitstart to feel like something I
wanted to do and maybeeventually go by myself. Also

(12:12):
the the becoming aware of allthe ways that it was oh sorry
becoming aware of all thedifferent ways that I was
benefiting from it as well. Sorealizing that it was giving me
back power that I thought I hadlost so and we I know I know
we're going to talk about thisthat of course when I first got

(12:34):
into the gym and started to seemy body change because I always
saw myself as this even even inmy twenties and early thirties,
I still saw myself as thisskinny eight year old.
And then when you do start tosee your body change, it's kind
of addictive. Well, not kind of.It is addictive because you go,
oh, hang on. It allows you tosee yourself in it and and on

(12:54):
some level that allows you tostart being someone else as
well. Now there's a big thingthere we shouldn't have to
change our bodies to becomedifferent people or more
confident but we were a veryvisual species of the five of
the five senses we use our eyessomething like 70% I believe so
of course how we see ourselvesin mirror and how we present

(13:15):
that to the world does factorinto who we are as a person so
it's I I don't think you canseparate that and say, and and
say you shouldn't like use yourdeveloping body as a way to feel
more confident because it's sointrinsically built into who we
are.
It's literally who we see everymorning in the mirror. But

(13:36):
recognizing as well that I I hadslept really badly all through
my twenties partly from goingout too much all those things
that when you move to a big cityand you sort of burst out of the
closet but, when I was sleepinga bit better, feeling a bit
better the next day, having abetter mood the next day, having
better interactions with peoplearound me and realizing hang on
this actually is more than justabout how I look. Those and so

(14:01):
those are the key things thatobviously I instill and I talk
about on Instagram and try tohelp people take a step back and
look at why they're doing it butbefore that the first it's the
first thing I mentioned it'speople it's the Seeing people
like us and realizing well, wemight be weird But we're weird
in a good way and they're weirdlike us and that makes me
fantastic because I'm not theonly one and then when they see

(14:24):
us we realize that everything wewant is valid and perfectly
acceptable. So that level ofcommunity, whether it's just one
person or whether you prefer youfound groups or online groups or
face to face groups or whatever.
And I one of the things thatI've loved in the last, say,
five years is the rise of LGBTQplus fitness sport games groups
to bring brilliant weirdostogether who want to go and do

(14:47):
ultra marathons or play chess orwhatever they want to do.
Because, again, I I think god.I'm not gonna rant at the
moment. One more thing, and thenyou guys can talk. I sometimes
this is connected.
I sometimes get on adverts andcontent from messages from other
gay guys or bi guys or whateversomeone from the community
saying, oh, we don't wanna bedifferent. We wanna be

(15:09):
integrated fully with everyone.And I oh, and I always have to
pause and go, I understand whyyou're saying that. And this
isn't about being separateentirely. It's just about giving
us the breathing space to beourselves without all the crap
that society piles on us when wego to, for example, a % straight
gym.
Mhmm. So just giving us thatbreathing space to be us without

(15:32):
any of the trauma generationalcrap we've learned. So I'll take
a

breath. In the men's workspace, in in
embodiment practice, we oftentalk about, finding out where
our edges are. Edge sort ofdefined briefly as, the limit of
our capacity in any particularway before we start to crumble.
So we can have emotional andenergetic edges, and we can
obviously have physical edges.And so learning where our edges

(16:01):
are helps us to be more skillfulin how we choose to engage in
the world.
When I when I recognize if weuse a fitness example, like, oh,
I can only hold 30 pounds, thenit is unwise for you to hand me
50, because at that point, Icould start to break and
crumble. And then, obviously,there are emotional, examples of
that. So one of the things Ifeel like I'm hearing you say is

(16:25):
recognizing an edge that aperson or people might have with
their comfort level in fitness.And one of the strategies that
they might employ is bringing afriend with them where they can
start to learn and create arelationship with their own body
with the safety of someone else.So to me that feels like a
conscious strategy that maybetwo or three years later after

(16:49):
having done that with your palor your your group, you know,
because I know there are a lotof LGBTQ, fitness groups.
Maybe things start to shift andyour edge has moved. But in that
moment, it feels like a reallybeautiful strategy that allows
us to create the relationshipwith our body without the fear
or the uncertainty or whateverelse might be standing in

(17:12):
someone's way.

Exactly that because, physical safety, safety
in numbers, doing something witha friend, going to a gym for the
first time, is super importantbut that psychological safety as
well because you're much lesslikely to base. I mean this is
awful that we have to talk aboutthis but and actually I do feel

(17:34):
gyms have been doing more andmore work about making them
physically and psychologicallysafer as well. But someone who's
a complete newbie, they don'tknow that. They absolutely are
going in with all thesepreformed opinions, and it's
amazing that they've found theconfidence to go in. So going in
with someone else absolutelyyeah.
It it softens the edges and andgives them that I guess it's a

(17:57):
kind of permission as well thatwe can do this together. I've
got you know, like, that sort ofsymbiotic support with a really
good friend or even, I guess ora person can't sound about to
sound like an advert or apersonal trainer who trusts you,
who trusts and vice versa. Yeah.And there's lots of them out
there. This isn't just about me.
Yeah.

I'm one of them. I'm one of them. Yeah.

Exactly. Which is wonderful. And I love that we're
having this conversation andthat we're not and because
because honestly another thingthat I've loved in the last five
years is more and more peopledoing what we're doing and doing
niche specific training andoffering gay people or like
lesbians with gay girls andtrans women working together
like again those safe spacesthose moments where You just for

(18:42):
example, you just don't have tocome out That's one of the gifts
of what we do because as we knowwe come out three times a day 10
times a day Sometimes whenyou're faced with someone a taxi
driver or someone they starttalking to you. There's you
don't just come out once butOnce you're in a group like or a
community as we have created Youdon't have to come out. You

(19:03):
don't have to explain anythingabout your partner your
proclivities like whatever youlike her into There's no
judgment and that just takesaway some of that extra stress
that we we have to juggle andthe thing is everyone is
juggling these different ballsthese different things we have
to keep in the air Familyfriends work hobbies all of
that, but we have to we have anextra ball.
We're juggling as well. So yeah.And then trans people, again,

(19:26):
have another ball they'rejuggling. Like, all of these
different things, the more wecan just help people put some of
those balls down, the more theycan just get on with fitness on
their terms.

Absolutely. And and being with like minded people, I
have a story that I would liketo share. So I was a very chubby
overweight kid. And I mean, itwasn't until recently that I
actually lost weight. And, inhigh school, I was I was
terrified to move in generalbecause I was like, I didn't
know if there was somethingwrong with my body.
I had chest pain. I like, youknow, my my mother's father had

(19:59):
died of a heart attack at a veryearly age. So I had this fear in
my head that I was like gonnadie if I if I exerted myself.
And so you layer that on top ofjust like being a gay boy, being
very ashamed of my body. Ididn't want to change in the
locker room.
If I was forced to change, Ilike would excuse myself to go
into a stall, into a bathroomstall and change there. Like I

(20:21):
could I like like it was mynightmare. And, I think I
mentioned earlier, like, youknow, I was much more prone to
like strategy and brain stuff.And so, there was one year that
I failed gym class and I was astraight A student. And I was,
like, super proud of, like,having those straight a's.
And I was like, uh-uh. Like,you're not gonna fail me. And so

(20:41):
I actually went up to the gymteacher and I proposed an
alternative because I wasterrified of participating in
the gym activities with theother boys. And so I said, hey,
I've got a group of friends whoare all little weirdo weirdos
like me. I think there was fouror five of us.
And I said, we are all doingvery badly in gym class. And,

(21:02):
like, it's bringing down ourgrades. Can we propose an
alternative? Can we have analternative gym class where it's
the five of us being able to,like, either go out into the
soccer field and do our ownthing or, go into the fitness
room and like track, you know,our fitness activities. We're
gonna do twenty minutes on thetreadmill.
We're gonna do some weights.Right? And be separate from the

(21:23):
rest of the boys. And he wasactually receptive to it. And
from that moment on, like, weactually were able to like, you
know, kind of rest in the safetyof each other and work on our
fitness together and not failgym class.

That's that's beautiful and amazing and pretty
rare I would say but I love thatthat you well I love that you
had the agency to come up withthat idea and that they went
along with it. That's wonderful.

Don't tell a brazen smarty pants that like he's
gonna fail you know, a class fora reason that he doesn't agree
with. I will come up with asolution real fast. But I grew
up in a very small town likeyou. Like you said, like, you
know, the only outlet, the onlyathletic outlet was like rugby.
In my case, it was like I coulddo soccer or, baseball or
basketball.

(22:12):
I grew up with a class of like40 kids, very, very small
school. And so, it was not easy.You couldn't really like blend
in. Like everyone stood out. Andso, like, you know, it really
was, you know, it was a rarechance that like the the gym
teacher would actually haveaccepted that, but like what
other choice, right?
Like it's a small town. Like youcan either force me to

(22:34):
assimilate and like be even moremiserable or you can, you know,
use a little bit of empathy. Andhe decided to use empathy at
that point.

Thank you for sharing that story. It's really
it's really beautiful. So itfeels like up until now, we've
been talking about, one aspectof the queer experience with
regards to fitness and bodyimage, which is, maybe feeling a
little othered or unsafe andtrying to find safe places for
that. But I'm also curious nowfrom my own perspective, there

(23:01):
is at least, a slice of us, Imean, maybe particularly gay men
that now have started to get alot of validation from their
physicality. And so can put anenormous amount of importance on
the aesthetic of their of theirbody and how they are viewed and
perceived by others.

(23:22):
And at times, sometimes itdoesn't always feel super
healthy either or, like, orentirely balanced. So I'm
wondering from your experienceand with the people that you've
worked with, like, have you runinto this and and how do you how
do you meet it?

I the sort of client that actually I attract
generally isn't in that frame ofmind. They haven't them crossed
over to physical, appearancebeing their number one
validation. They may have somehang ups with their body and we

(24:00):
work on that in obviously a kindsupportive way to help people
love themselves and realize lovelike as I I always say, you
can't hate yourself to change.You have to love and accept who
you are and meet yourself whereyou are, and then you will
change. And that's the amazingthing.
You can't do it the other wayaround. Obviously, I see this a
lot and come across it allacross whenever it was popping

(24:21):
up wherever it is on socialmedia. I think there are lots of
facets to it. One of them, I wasthinking about this earlier, is
to do with not being able to bewho we wanted to be when we were
young growing up coming out andeven when we come out it's not
instantly like oh right nowyou're perfect and no you're

(24:43):
still figuring it out so maybeguys well whatever age they are
40 are finally feeling able tobe in their body and I don't
want to put people off, becausegetting into fitness is an
amazing thing and you don't wantto dampen someone's drive, but
you're right. I guess when itbecomes a psychological need for

(25:07):
that validation that's when Ithink it can become problematic.
And of course social media feedsinto this and you look at one
thing and then you get 10 moreof it and then you realize oh
okay That's oh, well, I guessthe other part of this is we're
very good at putting I'm gonnaput this in inverted commas, the

(25:29):
wrong people on pedestals or atleast, say it's hard it's really
hard to like people oh god weend up well okay comparisonitis
people yeah. Maybe it isn't allof us. I think we do it

(25:50):
individually sometimes as well.We can put people on pedestals
and believe that that is theideal. Whether it is someone
taking steroids or whether it isjust someone who works out a
lot.
The problem with someonespecifically is we can literally
never be them. We are them, theyare them and what we can do is
admire maybe their work ethicand learn from them in terms of

(26:11):
their journey but what I find iswhen people talk about that or
use that they're linking it toagain self hatred. I won't be
happy till I look like that. Imust have a perfect body to be
acceptable to get a partner tohave dates all of this and it's
all this mushy Psychologicalthing that's tied up together in

(26:33):
again Some kind of selfloathing. I find some kind of
I'm not good enough

and

it's that that we need to get to the root of with
all of us to be able to likeYeah acknowledge someone else's
workout more than us great thatthey love their fitness They
work out all the times whateverthey do. They like that's their
thing I can be super proud andinspired by it But it doesn't
have to hold me back and that Ithink is what it does for so
many people But I mean I also Idid a post about this recently

(27:01):
as well saying that actually Idon't think it's the community's
fault because and I and I thinkthat's actually quite a lazy
response that doesn't that saysthis that sort of Stops people
doing the personal workthemselves and I think we do
have a The older we get. I thinkwe have a bit of personal

(27:22):
responsibility to look inwardsand figure out why we are how we
are and if there are thingsthere is crap holding us back
looking at that and that doesn'tnecessarily mean therapy like
there's a whole host of thingsout there that don't need to
cost anything or even just beingaround people like you and
talking it through bringing thatany shame you have into the
light so it withers but that'sthe side of this of I'm not good

(27:49):
enough that's what it alwayscomes back to and I obviously
that's what we learn when we'reyoung even before we know we're
gay because we internalize andwe we we sort of coming to terms
with it and we see this in thewider world and like I said even
if we have an amazinglysupportive family we come across
some kind of homophobia so thatgoes in and when we're young it
goes in without a filter and itgoes in the box and it goes in

(28:10):
our heads and it comes out indifferent ways for the rest of
our life unless we take a bit ofresponsibility to address it.

Well, that's exactly why I asked because,
it's one of the reasons why Ibelieve that embodiment work,
men's embodiment work andspecifically men's embodiment
work for queer men is soimportant because I have
witnessed and I've evenexperienced myself, a very
particular kind of relationshipwith, with our bodies that can
sometimes, as you rightly said,focus more on the parts we don't

(28:38):
like than the parts that we do.And so embodiment practice and
the way that I've been trainedand the way I've been studying,
it really is encouraging arelationship with our own body,
but it it's a relationship that,like any relationship, requires
time and patience andmaintenance because you will you
will be confronted at times withparts of you that you might have

(29:00):
an opinion about with regardsto, do I like my abdomen or how
do I feel in this moment. Andand one of the benefits of
embodiment work is our abilitywhen we do the practices to tap
into other parts of ourselves.So the the wisdom of our heart,
the wisdom of our gut, thewisdom of our primal, working in
conjunction with the wisdom ofour heads so that we can express

(29:21):
ourselves more fully andauthentically and create the
world and the life that we wannacreate.
And I think a lot of peopledon't do that, or are afraid to
do it or haven't been given, theopportunity or the resources to
do it. And And so this is why Ithink it's so important so that
we get that full expression. Andand if I can, I'd like to share
a story. You know, the theembodiment circle has been

(29:43):
running for over two years herein Provincetown. So lots of men
have come in, and a lot of menhave received and spoken about
getting lots of value from it.
But there was this one guy that,that had been coming regularly
and then had stopped. And I raninto him in town. I just sort of
asked him. I'm like, oh, youwere coming and then you just
kind of stopped. What happened?

(30:04):
And he said to me, he's like,well, you know, for a few weeks
in a row we did this practicewhere we were sort of pumping
our abdomen with our hand. Andit's like sort of a yogic Kriya.
And he said he said, and Ialways feel kind of fat, so I
didn't wanna come back and dothat again. And I remember
thinking, oh, that's interestingbecause, it might have been that

(30:24):
that conversation might havebeen fruitful in being honest
about your experience and thenmaybe starting to, like, develop
the tools to shift that becauseI kept thinking to myself, well,
if you're feeling it in thatmoment, then you're probably
feeling it everywhere else andjust choosing to ignore it, and
that doesn't take that away.What would take it away would be
some sort of conscious workaround your relationship to, and

(30:48):
in this case, his abdomen, butit could have been it could be
anything.
And so and I say this in yogaall the time. I'm like, if
something comes up on your mat,it absolutely comes up in your
life, And the same is true withfitness. So, I have been doing
workouts. If I start gettingfrustrated or if I start wanting
to withdraw, I get mad at thecoach or, you know, whatever the
thing is. I'm like, well,whatever just got stirred in me

(31:10):
exists everywhere in my life.
And so I have either the operathe option to look at it,
examine it, become curious aboutit in a nonjudgmental way, or I
can shove it in, and just carryit with me and let it let it
come out sideways and you know?So so thank you for answering
that question because the theimportance of this work is

(31:31):
exactly that, to be like, can welove ourselves into greater
healing, which might which meanswe have to be courageous enough
to see ourselves as we are.

I can relate to so much of what you just said,
especially of the the person inthe embodiment circle who was,
like, feeling exposed. I thinkthat's been a prickly part of my
own journey is, like, is is it'spainful sometimes to experience
my body. It's painful to bereminded of my body. And so that

(32:10):
prevents me from wanting to godeep in and I stay up in my
head. As I start to experience apain, I start like if I'm
pumping my stomach and I'm like,all of a sudden, I'm like, oh,
I'm a fat kid.
I'm a fat kid. I'm a fat kid.Right? I am now like in full,
like, raw exposed pain. And itit is challenging.
It is very hard to, like, to goto that place and then work

(32:31):
through it and then ask yourselfwith curiosity of like, what am
I feeling right now? Like, I'mfeeling something arise in me
and I have a choice right now. Ican sit with it and I can study
it and I can like try to be withit and develop a security in my
body or I can run away. And fora long time, I ran away.

So can I just ask you then, based on that
expression, how would you saythat that experience and working
through it has served you, youknow, in in service to your
feeling better in yourself or orliving more authentically? Yeah.

I have been able to sit and rest more comfortably in
my body. Like I like, evensitting in this chair right now
has been exposure therapy,really. Like, because I do. I
like I I don't know how toexplain it, but like my
consciousness sits here so muchof the time. And then I'm just a

(33:23):
head on a body, right?
Like, and now I can actuallylike feel my body in this chair
and feel my feet on the ground.And when I'm in a workout, like
yesterday I was boxing, andinstead of it being just like a
full like head workout of like,oh, let me like practice my
technique, I was actually in mybody. I was like, I could feel

(33:45):
my hips like, moving andshifting and, like, creating the
power that I needed to, like,perform the movement. And, like,
I was in a full bodiedexperience. And it's so
beautiful.
Like, coming out of that, I waslike, Ugh, I didn't just like
release up a bunch of endorphinsfrom, like, exercising. I also
like had a deep spiritualconnection with my body. Mhmm.

(34:05):
Right? And was able to like bein it comfortably, securely, and
feel safe in my body.

I love that. I'm very happy for you that you had
that. Just to rewind though whenyou were saying about I felt
uncomfortable maybe with yourabdomen or whatever part of the
body and then you chose at thetime not to deal with it and
then we're so good at addingmore guilt and shame into it why
aren't I dealing with it andthen it just goes into this even

(34:35):
stickier situation of I feeltrapped. So I understand why
people do feel that way and Ithink some well a it takes
amazing people like yourselvesto help and sort of tease it out
but also I think it does take alittle bit of courage from our
parts as well but the thing is Ithink LGBTQ plus people are
naturally a bit more bravecourageous we have to be to get

(34:59):
that first step out the door soand I think then we forget that
sometimes but actually it'sthere inside of all of us and we
we can do as Glennon Doyle sayswe can do tough things.

That's a mantra of mine. I like, one of my
strongest mantras in my life isI am strong and I can do hard
things. Like, there are so oftenthat, like, I would be doing a
workout and I would actuallyturn into a very negative, like,
self talker where I'd be like,you're a piece of poop. Like,
you should be able to do this.Like, and I was like yelling at

(35:31):
myself, like doing a rowingworkout or being on the bike.
I would like I would becritiquing myself and I would be
trying to, like, yell myself toaccomplish it. And I at some
point, I was like, okay. This issomebody else. This is a coach
that I had as a child. This ismy father.
This is somebody else doingthis. How would I want to show
up for myself? And that's when Istarted saying, I am strong and

(35:54):
I can do hard things. So I maybe in that that last push and I
wanna give up so badly. I'mabout to throw up.
I feel like my heart's about toexplode. I have so much negative
talk coming up and all I do isreframe it. I am strong and I
can do hard things. And I makeit through. Sometimes.
Most of the time. Yeah.

Well, that that's an interesting wrinkle as well
because I think one of the wayswe mature in situations like
that is realizing that bothroots, routes in America are,
but yes do I need to pushthrough and will that feel good
or actually do I need to pauseand step away because that route

(36:36):
is valid as well with nojudgment or shame and being I
guess mature enough to to choosethe right one and just follow it
through and be okay withwhatever you do.

Absolutely. Do I want to continue like like for
my own health and wellness notjust physical but emotional
mental like is this the rightmove for me to, like, sit with
this pain?

Well, that goes back to the the practice of
finding and understanding ouredges. Right? So you recognize,
is this once we have a clearidea of where our edges are at
any one time, you can start tounderstand, well, am I just
giving up because it'suncomfortable or am I
legitimately like at that placewhere to push any further or to

(37:20):
continue in this way is gonnaput me at a at a mechanical
disadvantage. Open me up forpotential harm on whatever
level. And that's why anotheraspect of men's work that I
think is so important is that wecan be really conscious about
making those choices.
And then when we make a choicethat is conscious in that way,

(37:41):
it's re well, I'm not gonna Ialmost said it's really easy. I
think it's easier to stand bybecause you're like, I, this is
why I chose it. It isn't I'm notreally sure. It's like, I I
believe this is all I could holdin this moment. And so for my
own safety, I stepped away.
And then you can make adifferent choice the next day.

Yeah. Love that.

Now this has this has been a really beautiful
conversation, and I'm, like, I'mfeeling really connected to you
guys, and I'm really I'm feelingconnected to my body and the
spirit of, like, like, movement,in ways that I really, I don't
think that I've felt this muchjoy around it. Like I've been on

(38:25):
a little fitness journey for thelast two years that's coincided
with my sobriety and I've I'vegone through waves of like
comfort and like pushing myselfthrough and like asking myself
like why am I doing this, likeexercise or this specific
program. And like I don't thinkthat I've actually sat and felt

(38:47):
this empowered and confident inwanting to move. Mhmm. Not for
other people, but for myself andfor my wellness and my health.
Right? Like Yeah. I like, thatto me is like I think it's just
being in similar likesimilarities. Like, Tim has a
very different background andrelationship to fitness than I

(39:07):
do. And, Matt, you have a verydifferent relationship to
fitness in your body and allthat.
And it's just but we still havea commonality here Yeah. Mhmm.
Of like like it's not easy allthe time. Yeah. Right?
Yep. Like some people I can lookat, you know, somebody at the
gym and like think that it'slike, oh, it's super easy for
them. But like people struggle.People have all sorts of

(39:29):
different like hidden struggles.And just like hearing us talk
about them has been reallysupportive and empowering for
me.

Well, I wanna jump in because I I do believe
without knowing for sure oneother thing that the three of us
have in common is, at least acertain amount of privilege. And
so what I wanna ask the questionnow is because I believe,
especially in this moment intime in our world, I know that
there are a lot of queer peopleout there that need support,

(39:57):
need safe spaces. We want somuch for them to be healthy and
strong in all of the ways. And,you know, I live in
Provincetown. I've I worked inNew York City.
Some options for fitness can beunbelievably expensive. Even if
you find the the safenonjudgmental place, it may not

(40:17):
be available to you. So, Matt,my question to you would be, if
let's say there's someonelistening and and they're and
they don't have the ability tonecessarily hire a trainer or go
to that safe space or that safespace isn't close enough or any
of those things, do you haveany, gentle suggestions for
someone to start their ownjourney like in the safety of

(40:40):
their home or or or in theircommunity?

Absolutely. And that's a really important point
because you're right. I thinkespecially not to harp on but
social media can brush over andpush more marginalized people
within the marginalization tothe sides at the because like,
white even straight presentinggay guys are the more acceptable

(41:08):
face of the community so getshown more and shared. This was
why it was so important from fortrans people trans guys to be
welcome in my community from thestart because God they're
getting a lot of crap at themoment. So to answer your
question there are more and moreof these community seg spaces

(41:31):
popping up both online and inreal life.
And actually, again, I live inLondon, so I'd see there are
there's a there are more ofthem, but there are free running
clubs for lgbtq plus people andagain maybe someone isn't ready
to join a running club and I getthat but more and more at least
there are these freeopportunities there are

(41:51):
community based things that justallow people to come together.
How does someone get started? Iwould say some kind of online
support first of all becausethere's so much there's my free
group and there's so many freecommunities out there.

Well, you have a free group. I don't I don't want
to interrupt you but can you youhave you have a free group for
GBTQ men for fitness. Can youjust talk a little bit about
what that would be? So if peoplewanted to look for it or find
it.

Oh, thank you. Absolutely. It's on because
Facebook is awful, I used tohave a group on there, and I
still do, but it's not active. II'm using the platform Skoole
which is s k o o l, and I set upFitter Confident Club and it's
got about 500 members and it'sreally lovely. It's people
hanging out there's at themoment I don't want to say

(42:41):
there's no purpose to it thereis a purpose there's community
connection support ideasmotivation enthusiasm all that
good stuff.
People talking about fun things,people talking about more
serious things, but it's againit's just a resource to hang out
and be well, realize you'renormal, realize you're weird,
and all everything in between.And there's free workouts in

(43:01):
there, free recipes, there'sloads of free resources. There's
a we actually have a yoga coachwho does yoga twice a month for
us as well so that's completelyfor free. So I think if you are
in that position starting outyou don't know where to start. I
know we're all craving humanconnection and we we are a
sociable a sociable species andwe need face to face stuff in
some way but the simplestquickest way is with online.

(43:23):
Look for a free group, come findand test them out see which ones
resonate with you. There areloads of them out there And and
again, if you're stuck in a tinyvillage in the middle of
nowhere, yes, fit meeting peopleis gonna be tougher, of course.
But, move to the city. No. I'mjoking.
You can you can stay in yourlovely, beautiful village.

(43:43):
Sometimes I wish that I lived ina lovely quiet village, not in
noisy stupid London. But, yeah,there are there are lovely
community groups all over theInternet that are waiting for
you and crying out for newmembers because, again when
we're new we often shy and wethink oh what can I bring to it?
But actually you can bring yourwonderful self whatever that is.

(44:05):
Everyone has beautiful input,everyone has a role to play in
these communities whether youare more of an introvert
extrovert ambivert However, youwant to describe it whether you
are more of a listener or acontributor, but Even just
strength in numbers knowingothers 500 of us now like look
at us.
We're strong We are We're we'rereal. We exist, and we're not

(44:27):
going anywhere. And if, like,just showing up to these,
listening, and seeing what youcan learn because there's so
many people in there doing goodstuff who and my favorite
expression is a rising tidelifts all boats. We rise
together and what I love is whenpeople discover yes of course
being cheered on is great butcheering your friends on and

(44:50):
seeing them succeed is just aspowerful and motivating So come
on into these communities. Weall want to welcome as many
people as possible because we'restronger together.

Beautifully said.

Absolutely. And, like, I I'm just so lit up
because it's like, you know, wetalked about kind of the
limiting belief that pops up sofrequently, I'm not good enough.
Right? And like, just hearing,like, you know, the the reminder
of like, I am a sparkly,wonderful person. Right?
And like, I like, just bybringing myself into a space,

(45:23):
like, I can lift other people upjust as they are lifting me up
by bringing their wonderfulsparkly selves. Right? And it's
just like, I love I love hearingthat. So, thank you. Thank you
for sharing.

So, you I think I mentioned to you and maybe our
listeners also know that I'm acofounder of Helltown Fitness, a
boutique fitness studio here inProvincetown. And part of our
mission is to serve our wholecommunity to be a safe,
nonjudgmental place for forhealth and fitness. And our
workouts are all, modifiableand, you know, we go we work

(45:58):
hard to make sure that peopleare taken care of. But you seem
to have a lot of experience andand what I have what I have
witnessed is that we still endup mainly getting the fitness
enthusiast as our primaryprimary customer. So we've said
a few things.
We've talked about our missionstatement and but do you have
any suggestions or or insightsthat might be helpful on how I

(46:19):
can or how anyone could let therest of our LGBTQIA2S plus
community know that this is asafe place if for if they want
it.

It's funny you say that because I've I hadn't I I
have my best ideas when I'm sortof waking up a bit like, I wake
up at 5AM and doze and then goback to sleep. And in that sort
of weird twilight, I often havemy best ideas or I wake up and
write them down and go, what thehell was that? But I had what I
think is a really good idea, andI'm gonna start this is this is

(46:54):
a world first premier. I want tocreate an online training group
for 50 plus GBT group class guyswho've never worked out And I
wanna make it really asaffordable as possible and reach
as many people and bring a biggroup of guys together and
normalize getting started inyour fifties or your sixties or

(47:16):
your seventies or I guess allyour forties. But I think I'm
looking at well a my the averageage of my clients is 48 so I
actually generally work witholder guys but actually from
what I've seen people 40 havegot into fitness in some regard
in some way it's the peoplewho've in that sort of 50 who
feel like they've been leftbehind because they weren't

(47:37):
necessarily they were theycertainly weren't on online
growing up and we weren't onlinegrowing up but they've it's
maybe not as in inverted commassexier generation it but it's
like they're valid and they'reout there and I do speak to them
fairly regularly so actuallysome kind of unique specific
resource for people who've neverworked out before is something

(48:00):
I'm going to create hopefully byin the next couple of months
because This is the amazingthing.
I was looking at stats in The UKabout how many people work out
52% of people in The UK havenever done any exercise More
than half which there's a hugemarket now of people who I'm
sure would love to in some way.Okay. I know some people are

(48:22):
resolutely against exercise, andthat's okay. But if there's even
a tiny spark in you that youthink, oh maybe I could dot dot
dot I'm gonna seize that and I'mgonna offer you and open that
door and say let's do thistogether because I got into
fitness late I didn't really getinto fitness till my late 20s

(48:43):
Whereas I I guess the conventionis all you started school and
you just know what you're doing.No.
I'm like flailing around forlike thirty years not knowing
what to do and I want to takeaway the stigma of people who
feel bad or weird or guilty thatthey haven't done anything yet.
Life is hard. Jobs are hard. Wehave things to juggle. The world

(49:04):
outside our door gives usongoing existential angst.
But fitness can help with a bitof that, and you don't need to
beat yourself up that youhaven't done anything yet. Mhmm.
There are and even if you don'twork with me, don't worry.
There's, again, more and moreoptions out there. And, for
example, gyms, I've seen somegyms do, like 50 plus classes

(49:24):
obviously they're not they won'tnecessarily be lgbtq plus
classes but again that thatnormalization of we're in this
together that that any kind ofcommunity can make someone feel
a bit normal and a bit okay toget going.
So like reaching out to thosepeople is is gonna be a big part
of what I do this year.

Beautiful. Beautifully said. Yeah. I think
it's important when we when wethink about fitness that we
explain all of the differentbenefits that that can come from
it. So it isn't wrong if aperson wants to get into fitness
because they want to create aparticular aesthetic with their
body.
But I work with a lot of clientswhere the the aim is to have

(50:05):
less day to day pain and moreand more ease in their the
activities that they love. Thatis super motivating when you're
like, oh, I actually I I toldthis story last night, but I had
this, friend. I was working withhim in the gym. He had low back
pain. I showed him a very simplebreath exercise, and he went and
did it and came back ten minuteslater.

(50:26):
His, like, eyes lit up becausehe was like, oh, that tension
that I've had for the last fouryears is has subsided some. And
it's it's that moment to belike, right. It like, you're not
because he I I think this man isin his seventies. It's like,
you're not trying to be a 20year old bodybuilder that isn't,
like but now you can walk downthe hallway and out of this gym

(50:48):
with less pain and have that gothrough the rest of your day.
Like, that is magic to me.
That that is, like, that is themagic.

Absolutely. And and just giving something so
accessible, approachable, like,giving that little taste to,
like, say, it doesn't have youdon't have to go from from zero
to 60. Like, bit by bit, right,can really help and go such a
long way. Just like, you know,getting those little tastes,

(51:21):
those little taste of, like, youknow, a relief or that that
little taste of, like, oh, anadrenaline rush from, like,
moving my body in a certain wayand, like, not overdoing it
either. And so, like, you know,I think about, like, a program
for people that are 50 or, like,or Helltown.
It's like, how do you bringpeople in and, like, give them
that taste to say, like, okay,I've gotten a little taste of

(51:43):
the nectar and I like it, it.Right? Without having to be
like, oh, I got it and it wastoo much. Now I'm gonna back
off. Right?
Like, there could be a shockand, like, that can come from
that that can trigger like, wetalked about edges earlier.
Right? Like, it can, like, putput somebody past that edge. So,
like, how do we create moreapproachable programming than,
you know, welcomes people in?

I always say, you know, when people come to
Helltown for the first time, Irecommend that they grab
lightweights, and I and I say tothem, I'm like, listen. I would
much rather you leave yourworkout today thinking or
feeling like you could go hardernext time than for you to leave
here feeling like you've justbeen, like, bulldozed. And they
we there's usually, like, alittle bit of, like, giggling
around that. I'm like, yeah.Like, I'd rather you say let's

(52:24):
come back and go heavier or goharder or go faster than for you
to be like that was way toomuch.
And that's that's something onething that has worked for me
because, it isn't a competition.I'm not I'm not keeping track,
you know, of it doesn't matterto me which weight you use. It
matters to me, that I help youhave a safe and effective

(52:47):
experience. That's what mattersto me.

Yeah. Making it safe and giving alternatives and
options is is absolutely key.And again really espousing that
there isn't a one size fits allsolution. So actually in fact
40% of my clients do homeworkouts very happily and
effectively so you never need tostep foot in the gym if you
don't want to if you really doit well and also it's not always

(53:10):
just because of trauma or justnot lying it there sometimes
it's just not convenient somaking sure people realize there
are other paths forward isabsolutely crucial. In
reassuring people that it itdoesn't have to be done how you
think it has to be done.
Mhmm. In spite of 20 year old,influencers on TikTok telling us
we're not working hard enough.They can get in the bin. Yeah. I

(53:33):
mean, change

is hard. Like, period. Hard. Like, full stop.
Change is hard.
And if you're expecting tochange radically overnight, it's
gonna be even harder. So, like,how can you small baby step into
it? So, like, a home workout.Like, if if I think that the
only way that I can, like, workout is that I have to go to the
gym, I will come up with everyexcuse not to go to the gym. Oh,

(53:58):
it's too cold outside.
Oh, I, like, my there'ssomething wrong with my car. Oh,
my dog needs a walk. Oh, I havea in forty five minutes. I can't
do it. Like, all these things,I'll come up with any excuse not
to do it.
But if I can say, like, oh, youknow what? I got my yoga mat
out. I could, like, go overthere and, like, flow for ten
minutes. Right? I can move mybody.
It doesn't have to be this thiscrazy big thing. Like, I could

(54:19):
just, like, move for a littlebit. Right? And, like, that's
that's encouraging. That's alittle bit of encouragement
where it's like, okay.
I did that. And then tomorrow,it's like, okay. Well, maybe
I'll go to the maybe I will goto the gym. Maybe I will push
myself out the door a little bitbecause now I've got a little
little taste.

Well, it feels to me like now more than ever I
don't I I said that last nighttoo. Like, not now more than
ever. Now now, it is especiallyimportant for as many people in
our queer community to feel tofeel strong, to feel healthy,
and to feel confident, inthemselves because, lots of
stuff has already come and Ithink lots more stuff is coming.

(54:57):
This we are recording thisepisode, what, one or two days
after an executive orderbasically erases trans people in
in the eyes of the government orthe or the White House
administration. And I know thatthat has a ripple effect.
It has an impact on our heartsand our energies. So any way in

(55:18):
which we can engage in mindfulself care, whether it's through
fitness, through yoga, throughembodiment practice, through
meditation, like what anythingthat that works and resonates, I
hope that our community hasavailable to them in some some
way because we are gonna need tobe strong individually and we

(55:39):
are gonna need to be strong foreach other. And which is why I'm
hoping to, when I can and, youknow, have the capacity, to be a
source of support in pursuit ofthis for others when they need
it because it may be it may be along four years.

Yeah and the one thing I'm recommending everyone
do is to just switch off the the24 rolling news cycle that yes
and it's not set not to saydon't be politically aware or
active or even aware of news andthings but at the moment it's
just it feels unrelenting and infact so yesterday I was in I do

(56:20):
some corporate work sometimeswhich allows me to reach more
people all at once, which isgreat. So it was a really big
company that had an lgbtq plusERG employee resource group
within IX. It was that big anddid a really lovely training
session with them, and then wentactually just with the guy, my
contact, to where he worked Andthey had maybe this floor and

(56:41):
then they had four floors ofthis big building and the floor
that I went to, maybe 50 peopleon there working. But on every
wall was a giant TV screen withrolling news headlines, like
obviously on silent but all withsubtitles as well and it was
things like awful fire in Turkeykills sixty six people awful
thing happens here awful thingshappen here and just even if

(57:02):
they're not consciously lookingat it it's going in and it's
going to make you feel like theworld is ending right now So
taking yourself out of that isreally powerful and I know it
could be so hard to like it's soaddictively awful sometimes but
leaving that and I guess theother thing to do with that is
on a smaller level if you onInstagram have a feed that makes

(57:24):
you feel crap you haven't inyour power to change what you
see if you unfollow all thepeople who make you feel
inferior and start followinglasagna recipes and cats

Garfield. Yes, please. Yes. I I wanna I wanna
dedicated Instagram feed that isjust Garfield. That is, like,
that is cats and lasagnas.
That's it.

And normal. Don't forget normal. Yeah. Like, you
have it in your power to have anicer experience when you open
Instagram, and people forgetthat. They go, oh, it's the
algorithm.
No. You've trained thealgorithm. Like, that's on you.
You are in in charge of that atleast 90%. Again, obviously, it

(58:07):
knows you, but it will serve yousome things, but you can make
your online experience nicer.
Look. I quit, and deactivated myex account as well because oh,
no. I don't even like callingthat my Twitter account because
because obvious reasons. You youdon't have to be a slave to
what's on your phone.

This is a great again, we're key coming back to
this idea of understanding youredges, and social media can
absolutely be that, and we canmake conscious choices about
what it is I'm wanting to inviteinto my experience and

Yeah.

Letting that be creating and curating things
that are inspirational orexciting. I mean, a lot of my
Instagram is point of viewroller coaster videos and a lot

truly. I love that.

And a lot of like dance and and things like that.
So, as we sort of near the endof what I think has been a
really fruitful, fun, andexploratory conversation. I'm
just curious, is there anythingelse, from your experience that
maybe we didn't cover that youthat you just feel like we we

(59:09):
need to say or or hear?

Just that so to anyone listening, anything you
want to achieve is possible andanything you want to achieve and
be and do is is valid. There isthere is no right or wrong way.
There's just you testing youredges, baby stepping, finding
your way forward in a confusingchaotic messy world that does

(59:34):
make it tough for us and we dohave things we have to overcome
and like I said don't be afraidof doing the work yourself
however that looks because thefreedom this might almost sound
like a cliche but I heard itlast year and I loved it that
the freedom that we want is inthe work that we're avoiding. So
actually and we I know we can'talways lean into, like, the

(59:56):
uncomfortable things becausethat would be too stressful.
But, like, again, test thoseedges of where we find things
uncomfortable, of what's whatwhat's challenging us and where
we're stopping ourselves becausemaybe, just maybe, there's a bit
more freedom.
There's a bit more joy. Thereare new friends on the other
side of that and fitness isn't auniversal panacea, but it's a

(01:00:17):
great place to start and ithelps you be in your body and
remember that Like you have thisamazing we have this amazing
vessel or whatever it is thatwe're in for sixty seventy
eighty ninety years The you ifyou just keep fighting it It's
always going to be a strugglebut the more and the quicker you
can learn to love it and acceptit the more you can just, I

(01:00:39):
don't know, go hang binding withLindsay Lohan and just do
whatever whatever floats yourboat. Fun stuff.

Eric Bomyea (01:00:44):
I forgot that schedule for next week. How did
you know how'd you get mycalendar?

Matt Boyles (01:00:48):
I'm I'm the session afterwards. Because if it's not
fun, why are we doing it? Like,there is fun to be had. Whatever
we think of how much the worldis on fire. And that doesn't
mean we can't be politicallyactive and help people out and
do good stuff.
But but fun is what for for mymind, fun is the most important
thing we can make happen becausethat also inspires other people

(01:01:09):
to have more fun and that makesthem happier and that positive
energy just keeps rippling out.

Timothy Bish (01:01:13):
Well, I've said this a lot in in yoga and in
embodiment. I think these areplaces where we can, in a safe
container, lean into some ofthat discomfort to to to have a
better understanding of ouredges and and and to do that in
safe environments like the onesthat we're discussing are so
important. But I I remindpeople, I'm like, we're also
allowed to have fun. We'reallowed to smile. We're allowed

(01:01:36):
to do something that makes usfeel sexy or cool or like the
superhero or whatever.
And I will often invite peopleinto that because I'm like, why
are we all so serious all thetime? There are times for
seriousness. And there's also, II believe in our current
culture, plenty of opportunityto be to be serious. I'm like,
so why don't we take a littleopportunity to be playful,

(01:01:58):
silly, fun, you know, bouncy,you know, sparkly, sparkly like
unicorns. Let's do it, you know.
And, and I I think it's such animportant component to the work.
Yes. Sometimes we have to figureout where our comfort level
lies. Sometimes we have to feelcool. Sometimes we have to feel

(01:02:19):
strong.
We have to feel fun. We have to,you know, whatever. I sometimes
like to pretend that I'm asuperhero. I sometimes when I
work out, like to pretend thatI'm in the Olympics. Going for
the gold.
It's like it makes it fun forme. So like that may not work
for everyone. But I'm like,yeah. So right now I'm on my
erg, but in my head I'm on abody of water and I'm like

(01:02:39):
inching this close, gold orsilver, gold or silver. Yeah.

Yeah. And I I think that's the power of the
imagination and the power ofplayfulness of, like like like,
fitness doesn't have to beserious. It can be very playful.
Like, yesterday when I wasboxing, like, I was like, I'm a
lion. I'm a tiger.
I am, like, I am here, like, inbetween my rest rounds. Like, I
was, like, just, like, pacingaround in a circle, and I was

(01:03:03):
just, like, imagining myself asthis, like, feline creature. And
then as soon as the bell hit, Iwas like, okay. We're ready.
Right?
So it's like, you can beplayful. You can be the
Olympian. You can be whatever itmight be that you want. Like,
really just use your imaginationto play and have so much fun.
So,

yeah. You weren't you weren't aligned. You were
Garfield. He's back.

I was, like, I was getting my lasagna that day.
Matt, Tim, this has been areally beautiful, fulfilling
conversation for me personally,and I I I wanna just thank you
both for being so open andhonest about your own
experiences and and sharing yourpassions with the world. And,

(01:03:45):
like, you're invigorating me.Right? And I I hope that this
conversation invigorates othersto, be active in whatever way
works for them, to be playful intheir activities if it's helpful
to them, to bring their sparkle,to bring their magic into their

(01:04:06):
community spaces, to lift otherpeople up as they do it, as you
two have lifted myself andothers up with your, you know,
sparkle and wonderfulness.
So, with that, I'm feeling very,very complete. How about you
guys?

I feel complete.

Yeah. I this finding and connecting with
people such as yourselves justis such a joy and knowing that
we get to share this joy andenergy with other people is 10
times the joy as well. So thankyou for the opportunity. I'm
incredibly grateful.

Tim, will you take us out?

Absolutely. Let's close our eyes and take a deep
inhale through the nose andgently exhale through the mouth.
And it is with deep appreciationand gratitude for this space
that we shared for the insights,the exploration, the awarenesses
that were brought. And as wemove away from this discussion,

(01:05:00):
I wish everyone safety,community, playfulness, health,
love, and with these words ourcontainer is open but not
broken. Uh-huh.
Uh-huh. Thank you so much forjoining us here in the circle.
If you'd like to stay connectedto us between episodes, please
follow us on Instagram at queermen's embodiment. Like,

(01:05:21):
subscribe, rate, and reviewwherever you find podcasts. And
as we leave now, I wish youbrotherhood, connection,
authenticity, vulnerability,safety, and love.
And with these words, ourcontainer is open but not
broken.

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Reclaiming Fitness: Queer Strength, Body Image, and Self-Love | GBTQ+ Wellness with Matt Boyles

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Reclaiming Fitness: Queer Strength, Body Image, and Self-Love | GBTQ+ Wellness with Matt Boyles