February 12, 2024 • 40 mins
Have you thought about sharing some of your expertise, your ideas, or experiences but just are not sure how to get started?
Deevo Tindall, a Chief Experience Officer and leader in Marketing and Branding, walks us through how to use social media and sites like LinkedIn to amplify our voices in order to share our ideas.
Until next time, communicate with intention and lead with purpose.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Leah OH (00:00):
Deevo Tindall is the chief experience officer and
leading expert in marketing andbranding. And this episode of
the communicative leader Deevohelps us think through how to
best position ourselves asthought leaders in our
respective industries. Hello,and welcome to the communicative
leader hosted by me, Dr. LeahOmilion-Hodges, my friends call
(00:22):
me Dr. OH. I'm a Professor ofCommunication and a leadership
communication expert, and thecommunicative leader, we're
working to make your work lifewhat you want it to be. Do you
vote Thank you so much forjoining us on the communicative
leader, I really excited tolearn from you. Before we really
(00:44):
dive into our conversation, canyou tell us a bit about yourself
a
Deevo Tindall (00:48):
little bit about myself? How far back do I get to
go?
Dr. Leah OH (00:51):
Oh, your choice.
Deevo Tindall (00:54):
I'll just give you the high level version.
Well, I'm a I run a couple ofbusinesses in Charlotte, North
Carolina. They're called thefusion brands. One of them is a
photography studio that's beenaround since 2006. And then in
the last two years, I launched anew division called Fusion
creative. So the long and shortof that is as we are a branding
and marketing agency, and wehelp small businesses and
(01:16):
entrepreneurs help share theirmessage with a larger audience
using social media, digitalmarketing, all the different
tools, but more importantly,creating content that tells the
story and then using thatcontent to amplify to a very
specific type of audiencesthere. So they're very well
equipped to speak their languageand what they're really good at
to the right type of audience.
So we teach CEOs how to do thatproperly.
Dr. Leah OH (01:41):
Yeah, music to my ears is a communication scholar.
I love that. So you take a stepback, we think about audience,
we think about content are morelikely to have successful
results. Absolutely.
Deevo Tindall (01:55):
The business was born from that very gap, I just,
I was finding out that a lot ofsmall business owners,
specifically Small BusinessCEOs, and entrepreneurs didn't
really know what to do once theyhad good content created, it
just sort of sat on a digitalGrodd drive and collected
digital dust. And so we set outto kind of fill that gap. Yeah,
(02:15):
really cool.
Dr. Leah OH (02:16):
So you know that you are a branding expert. And
today I'd like to think aboutkind of the intersection of
leadership and personalbranding. So to that end, how
important that is a personalbrand for leaders?
Deevo Tindall (02:31):
Well, I don't think a lot of people think
about personal brands, so weshould probably define what that
looks like. But for me personalbranding, it's it's really it's
a it's a quintessential GameChanger really to be. To be
truthful with, it's going toit's sort of the alchemy of
transforming from just anotherindustry player to somebody who
(02:51):
has a gold standard of thingsthat are about them, it becomes
it becomes it gives people anoutlet to express themselves
outside of just their business.
So for example, you know, yourun a podcast, you have a
successful business, but maybethere's other things and other
avenues that you want to connectwith a larger audience or very
more specific audience, maybeyou wanna start doing keynotes,
maybe you want to write a book,maybe we want to show up on
(03:11):
podcasts like I do. And sopeople only know you as the CEO
of this company, or they onlyknow you as the host of this
podcast, or they only know youin the capacity that which you
primarily serve, right. And sodeveloping a personal brand,
takes that to a whole differentlevel, and gives you the
opportunity to expose yourselfto a larger audience so that you
can further amplify whatever itis that you're trying to sell,
(03:34):
teach, educate, inspire, etc.
And so if you if you're able todevelop that personal brand,
very strategically and cogently,then you can use those side by
side with not only yourbusiness, but connecting to a
much larger audience, differenttype of person that you had ever
connected with before, on apersonal level, but also on a
large group level.
Dr. Leah OH (03:53):
Yeah, and I love it was so succinct from an industry
player to the gold standard.
Yeah, that is that is abeautiful way to illustrate
that. We
Deevo Tindall (04:03):
everybody, everybody, I mean, so the whole
sorry, I didn't mean tointerrupt your whole, the whole
key around that whole personalbranding space is that, you
know, there's 1000s ofpodcasters just like you and I
right, there's 1000s of CEOs whodo operate in the same industry,
there are all kinds of peopledoing the same thing. And we're
all competing for the same setof eyeballs. So anything that we
can do as leaders to totransform what we stand for what
(04:28):
we believe in our valueproposition, and then really use
that to share that message on amore personal level with the
larger audience enables us tonot only continue doing what
we're doing, and from our fromour business side of view, but
then again, expansion to a wholedifferent market. We had never
been considered before,potentially. Yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (04:45):
And so with that in mind, what are some of the what
is some impact that you've seenthis kind of personal branding,
or amplifying this message haveon someone's success? Well,
Deevo Tindall (04:56):
for example, I'll just use me as an example I show
up in about 60 60 to 100podcasts a year. And it's not a
week doesn't go by that somepodcast was heard by some person
who then reaches out to me,because they want more
information and they want to dobusiness with me or they want to
connect with me or they want tobe on my podcast. And for me,
personal branding is really thecornerstone of that is not
(05:19):
selling per se, it's not so muchthat you're selling yourself to
a different audience. That's theoutcome. But it's really more
about setting up an advantagefor you so that you can connect
with a larger audience and builda brand, not just around your
business, but around some of theother things that you might not
be able to do in your business,like keynotes, write books, show
up on podcasts, etc. And justoffer a different side of
(05:41):
yourself that you hadn'tconsidered before. But really,
the bottom line of it is justbeing able to connect with a
much larger audience. I can'ttell you how beneficial it's
been for me. I've bookedkeynotes from it. I've booked
podcast guests from it, I bookedbusinesses from it, I got a call
this morning from somebody whoreached out to me on LinkedIn,
she saw, she heard me on apodcast like a month ago. And
(06:02):
she found out that I'm runningthis 30 day course challenge for
entrepreneurs. And she's like,I've got 10 People who want to
sign up for this. So it's just,I can't speak volumes enough
about being able to use yourselfas the icon to build something
bigger than you've already done.
Dr. Leah OH (06:19):
Yeah, right.
Because we're, we're dynamic,it's not static. It's not just a
logo. It's not just a slogan.
And I love that you hit in on oryou said it's not necessarily
selling. So I think some peopleat first blush are like, Oh, I
don't know that I could do thatwith myself. But it's
connection, it's getting yourname and those services out
(06:41):
there.
Deevo Tindall (06:42):
Yeah, you do that every day. If you if you stop
and think about it, like you'reliterally doing it every day.
And and one thing that I teach alot of my clients is that, you
know, you're basicallynetworking and connecting 24/7,
from, from sitting at your kidsbasketball game, to grabbing
coffee in line to at the grocerystore, like you're literally
always connecting, so why nothave some purpose behind that,
(07:03):
and some and some impetus behindthat so that you can actually
connect on a professional leveland share whatever it is that
you're trying to share with theworld. I mean, that there's
something you do really well,right? So how can we get that
message out there to a largeraudience? And don't be afraid to
do like, this is what we're herefor. We're here to make a
difference.
Dr. Leah OH (07:19):
Yeah, yeah. So with that in mind, what are some key
steps or strategies so that aleader could take to create the
strong and authentic personalbrand,
Deevo Tindall (07:30):
I think, first and foremost being very, very
clear on why and how and what itis that you that you're doing
that you want to show up for. Soif if you're showing up on
podcasts, like me have a veryclear value proposition on what
it is that you bring to thetable. So if you want to write a
book, be very clear on what thevalue is that you want, and the
lesson that you want to impartin the people reading your book.
(07:52):
So you hear this all the time,it sounds cliche, there's 1000s
of books being written on itnow. But if if you can
understand your purpose, andyour Northstar around what your
personal brand looks like, thenyou're going to be better
equipped to share that messagewith the audience that you're
specifically targeting, to reachin the first place. And so one
of the things that we do is it'ssort of like a personal brand
(08:13):
audit, if you will, it's a branddiscovery, and really kind of
deep dive and get, get under thecovers and figure out who are
you man? What do you do? What doyou do really well, what what's
your value? Why would I give youmy money to exchange this
resource exchange for yourinformation? How is it going to
make my life different, better,more enhanced, etc. And so if
you can figure all those thingsout on what your message looks
(08:35):
like, then you're gonna be moreequipped to better sell that
better hat better deliver thatmessage to the audience you're
trying to deliver to? And
Dr. Leah OH (08:43):
I think too, and you're talking about I think we
spend so much time externallyfocused, we research the new
car, we even figure out whatwhat grocery store am I going to
bring my money to. But we don'tturn that internally as often as
we should. And so I think whatyou're saying kidding, it's
considering what those valuesare that we hold, and then how
(09:05):
it is we do things slightlydifferent than others.
Deevo Tindall (09:08):
Absolutely. Have you ever done anything like that
yourself? To a personal selfdiscovery?
Dr. Leah OH (09:15):
Here, and they're not in the deepest dive that I
should I actually, as part of mymy day job, I teach PR and
writing and research. So I'vedone some of it there. I've done
some of it with working withthis podcast, but not as fully
as I should.
Deevo Tindall (09:33):
Yeah, a good friend of mine, Gary, many, many
years ago, when I left thecorporate world, I was just sort
of sitting down with peopletrying to figure out you know
what it is I wanted to do when Igrew up. Yeah. And he said
something to me, this is like 20years ago, and he says something
to me, that has resonated withme. We are unable to read our
label when we get stuck insideof our own jar. And so it's
interesting, you know, it's whypeople have therapists. It's why
(09:55):
people have coaches. It's whypeople seek outside counsel
because we're not really able tosort of understand who we are
because we've lived withourselves the entire time. And
most people don't take the timeto sort of step back and be
introspective about who I am.
What's my value? What do I do?
Why am I here? Like, what is it,I'm here to deliver. And we get
sort of stuck in this treadmillof just like, perpetually doing
(10:18):
the same thing without everreally understanding our clear
impact. So these personalaudits, these personal
discoveries are an opportunityfor you to be introspective and
self awareness on what yourvalue is to the universe, and
then find a way to, to propagatethat and then share it.
Dr. Leah OH (10:32):
Yeah. And what a gift for self. to really hone in
on that. Point.
Deevo Tindall (10:38):
Brilliant point.
Yeah, well, you're right. Wedon't get ourselves very often
we sort of have this idea thatwe're, and it's great, you know,
we're here to serve, we're hereto add value, all these sorts of
things. But if we're, if we'renot, if we are not a full
person, if we're not able tofully develop who we are and
understand who we are, we'reless equipped to be able to
deliver the people who want toserve in the first place,
whether their father as apartner as CEO, whatever it is,
(10:59):
right? Yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (11:02):
Yeah. So depot, in your opinion, what are some of
the common misconceptions ormyths that you've heard about
personal branding or the othershould be kind of aware of as
they start this, this personalaudit
Deevo Tindall (11:15):
topic a lot of people have, have, they have
impostor syndrome around aroundwho they are, first and
foremost, and because of thatimposter syndrome. They think
that personal branding is onlyfor like these big celebrities,
or these really high profilepublic figures, or that social
media influencer that I saw thathas a million followers and is
doing. And the thing is, isthose people were once the
(11:37):
person you consider yourself asand so the difference between
they and you is that they havethe courage, and the Moxie to
step off that platform and say,I'm going to do this. So they
just started by starting. And sothe biggest misconception is
that it's reserved for peoplethat everyone else but you, and
I always sort of say like, whynot? You? Like, why not? You?
(11:59):
What are you good at? Why Whywould someone else even if it's
just one person, not want to bereceived receiving that message?
Like, why not you? And then Ithink another misconception is
that a lot of people think it'sa, they lose hope, because they
think it is a one time effort.
And they posted that one time onsocial media. And they went on
(12:19):
that one podcast, and it didn'tresult in anything like Whoa,
man, I show up on like, 100podcasts a year. And I'll tell
you, like, a few of them reallyhave a ripple effect. Some of
them are a waste of time. Butsorry, let me rephrase that.
Some of them might appear as awaste of time. That's not the
case. Because you never knowwho's listening. You never know
(12:40):
who's watching. And it's not aset it and forget, forget it
task. It's sort of like aconsistent, always ongoing job
to be able to share why someoneelse would want to do that
resource exchange with you.
Dr. Leah OH (12:55):
Yeah, so in some ways, it kind of sounds like it
becomes more of a lifestyle, aprofessional lifestyle. And I
love that you use the word Maxi,because one, I don't think we
hear that enough. So important.
But recognizing again, we don't,it's not we check it off on our
list one time, wash your handsof it and move on.
Deevo Tindall (13:17):
I mean, it's not it's not dissimilar to anything
else in your life. If you thinkabout the things that you're
really good at, whether it's afitness program, or a new diet
you started or even the jobyou're in, like, you didn't just
go to work one day and be like,Oh, I'm suddenly an expert
there. There is a lot ofsubtleties and nuances to
promoting yourself to buildingthis personal brand. And I think
a lot of people get stuck onthat whole word of promoting
myself, it sounds narcissisticand vain and all that. But if
(13:41):
you're not going to do it, thensomeone else is going to do it.
So why not you? And it's notit's not a vain context, if you
don't look at it from a vaincontext. If you reframe that
juxtaposition as saying, I'mreally passionate about this
particular thing. And I feellike when I've shared this with
other people, it's made adifference in their life,
whether it's a book, whetherit's a story, whether it's
(14:02):
poetry, whether it's keynotes.
And if you can just reframe thatfrom the standpoint of I'm here
to deliver something to someoneelse to make their life a little
bit easier, better, etc, then itmight, it might enable you to
sort of get rid of that vanitymetric that you're that you're
sort of measuring yourself by.
Dr. Leah OH (14:18):
Yeah, exactly. And I think you're right, that that
is a hurdle to get over. Andmaybe sometimes we have to keep
running that race and jumpingthose hurdles. But if we, if
we're committed to this, andwe're doing it, how do you
recommend, you know, leveragingsocial media for thinking
Instagram X tick tock, ticktock, you know, how do we do
that and still maintain ourprofessional image?
Deevo Tindall (14:41):
Well, first and foremost, it really goes back to
that purpose that I was talkingabout the outline and really
understanding what's the valuethat you're going to be bringing
to the table and being very,very, very crystal clear on that
brand message. So just like youwould do with your business,
just like you would do with yourcompany. You have a mission you
have an objective you have avision Are you you sort of
understand what your brandmessage looks like. And then
(15:03):
what from that point on, createa strategy centered around
content creation, and, andphotos, videos and social media
or paid advertising all thedifferent tools, I mean, there's
a bevy of tools at our disposalright now. And you just have to
pick, I wouldn't say you have toplay in all of them, I would
say, start small, pick maybe onesocial media channel that you
really feel comfortable with,and that you think your audience
(15:26):
might be hanging out on. Andthen put together a content
strategy, within that contentstrategy, have a diverse set of
content, ideas, whether it'svideos, whether it's
photography, whether it's justinspirational quotes, things
that you feel you can best showup in, and then plan that in
advance, don't try to shoot fromthe hip every morning. And then
(15:46):
one of the things that I suggesteverybody is you can batch
create most of that content. Ifyou just devote a few hours
every week or every other otherweek. However, whatever your
efficiencies are, and you batchcreate this content, which is
tied directly to the strategythat you already developed in
advance, you'll find that youcan sort of use this content on
demand as opposed to likethinking, what am I going to
(16:06):
post it? I have no idea what amI talking about? And so if
you're very strategic about it,just like you would be with your
business, then you can also youcan attack your own personal
band from that same perspective.
Yeah,
Dr. Leah OH (16:17):
and I love those.
Obviously, your expertise thatbatch creating where an offset
like people might say, There'sno way my schedule doesn't
permit for this, I canaccommodate it. We want to do
it, we can, right? We're justfiguring out how do we block
that time?
Deevo Tindall (16:32):
Well, for that hour and a half, that you're
going to watch Netflix latertonight or for that for that
1020 3040 minutes that you'regoing to sit in your bed in the
morning, scrolling through yourInstagram, reprioritize that
reprioritize that and set asidesome time, like I filmed 10
videos this morning between 6amand 9am. And now I have those
videos filmed and ready to go,I'm going to put them into my
(16:53):
content calendar, I'm going todistribute them on different
channels. And and but I'vealready had it done. Now I have
10 pieces of content that I cancut up, I can Evergreen. And
that's another thing. A lot ofpeople think that just because
you film something on oneparticular day that it has to be
used that day, and it doesn't,you can create content around
the sort of the idea ofdocumenting stuff, and then use
(17:13):
it in a future state or reuse itin a future state or repurpose
it for a future state. Itdoesn't have to be that one to
one I post it. So now I have toshare it. Like build a library
of content. Yep. Build, keepbuilding it. Keep building it.
Dr. Leah OH (17:25):
Yeah. And like you said, you had this all done
before 9am, where most peopleare just showing up to lock onto
their computers, right?
Deevo Tindall (17:34):
Well, I have the benefit of working from home.
Yeah, a lot of times, so I'mable to, to afford myself that
luxury, if you will. But again,I refuse to hear from people who
say that they don't have timefor it. Because then when I sit
down and break down theircalendar with them, and I take a
look at if you were to spinhere's here's a great exercise
for anybody's doubting me. Takea notebook today, today, start
(17:55):
first thing tomorrow morning.
And I want you to literallydocument your entire day. And I
want you to take a look atliterally at the end of the day,
had lunch from 1126 to well 45.
It was on my Instagram from1245, et cetera, right? And then
at the end of the day, if youlook at those notes, and you can
honestly tell me that youcouldn't find 30 minutes or an
hour somewhere in that gap ofwasted time, then okay, cool.
(18:18):
But I would bet that 99% of thepeople, once they journaled
themselves for the day would beable to see gaps where they
could reprioritize rewardreorganize their day, put their
phone away, not be scrollingthrough it and get get this done
something for themselves.
Dr. Leah OH (18:31):
Yep. Bingo. I do this exercise with my students a
lot. And it's just thinkingabout how a lot of times we've
never learned time managementand what a powerful tool it can
be. So thinking then, you know,digital media, I'm thinking
about our leaders out there whoare trying to stand out, like
(18:51):
you said, move from just anindustry player to gold
standard. What are some of thebest practices for them on
LinkedIn?
Deevo Tindall (18:59):
I think for me, that's a great question, because
I'm totally with LinkedIn rightnow. And one of the strategies
that I have found first andforemost, it has to be
consistent. And secondly, therehas to be some sort of a value
value add, but you can't justshow up and talk about your
promotion or, or everything. Forme, I like to shake things up.
And I don't want to just postthe same stuff, because
(19:21):
everyone's posting the exactsame thing. So and it's not
shake things up so that you looklike this rogue rebel. I'm not
saying that. But like, if you ifyou are speaking about, let's
say you're a business coach,because I work with a lot of
business coaches, and you'retraining other people and
entrepreneurs, CEOs, etc. Thinkabout some of the things that
you tell them that you mightsort of have a little bit of a
(19:43):
tendency to not share in public.
How can you reframe thatinformation and put that out
there? Again, the idea is to beable to add value, respect the
rules, but do not be afraid tobend the rules. Be a leader who
speaks not just to informpeople, but really challenges
and stimulate sort of this newway of thinking I think because
you're in this position, with,with with access to eight and a
half billion people like, truly,you have the opportunity to use
(20:06):
this as it's not just an echochamber, but to really introduce
some of the fresh perspectivesthat you have, that you have in
your mind or these ideas thatyou have. And don't just come at
it from a standpoint of like,I'm just here to disrupt, but
lead with a blend of wisdom andsome daring and, and it's sort
of like, it's sort of like wheretradition meets innovation, if
(20:27):
you will, like how can you findthat small little break in and
without being too audacious, butat the same time being a little
bit bold and calculated and howyou address stuff. And be be
curious, take a look at whatother people are doing. And then
say, Okay, I see 10 out of it.
Nine out of the 10 people thatI'm I've just followed basically
(20:48):
said the same thing. What whatis it that I'm really good at
and passionate about that I canshare that might add some value
to them. And don't just deliverit in the same way. And don't be
afraid to use differentmethodologies to deliver your
message. Like don't always justpost text, maybe get on a video,
maybe do a LinkedIn live, maybepost a recorded video, I'm not
saying you have to dance, you'renever gonna see me dance. But
(21:09):
you know, be original man,everyone, everyone else has
already taken like you're theonly one left. So be you.
Dr. Leah OH (21:15):
Yeah, that is really, really helpful. And I
love that idea of respectingrules, but not being afraid of
to ban them. And you just saidit so beautifully, that
intersection of tradition andinnovation, because we don't
want to alienate those who aremore traditional and have taken
that path and lean into that.
But we also don't want to getstuck there, either. Yeah,
Deevo Tindall (21:38):
I give you a perfect example of this. Because
people are like, Oh, that'seasy. And I mean, sorry, that's
really difficult. And it's easyfor you, you do it all the time.
But I was once you I had tostart somewhere once before as
well. And so, you know, today'spost on LinkedIn that I recorded
is going to be centered aroundit's a video, I just literally
put my phone in on my on mytripod, and I just recorded a
quick video. And one of thethings that was it came from a
(21:59):
conversation I was having lastweek with my workout buddy. We
go to the gym every morning atfive o'clock. And we were sort
of sitting there He's like, he'slike, do you know I can never
get you to answer your phone.
And I was like, Dude, how manytimes I have to tell you just
text me first. And I'll call youback. My phone is never turned
on. I will not answer the phone.
Answering the phone is a deathtrap for distraction. There are
(22:19):
only three people who haveaccess to my phone, my two kids
and my wife. And they can callme anytime they want. They can
get me on anytime they want thatyou can set up your phone for
emergency contacts to get there.
But anything else, forget aboutit, you're never going to answer
the phone and the Phone doesn'teven ring. And it's because in
my business, I own twobusinesses, I've got a bunch of
other stuff going on. My phonewould literally ring me all day
long. And so my post today islike, Okay, some of you are
(22:42):
gonna probably call me crazy forsaying this. But turn your
goddamn phone off. Because yourphone might literally my phone's
turned off all day long. I willnot touch my phone during
business hours. Because I don'twant to get stuck in the
Instagram or the LinkedIn trap.
I don't want to be answering thephone. And here's another
sidebar that he brought up. Thatwasn't even my point. He's like,
you know, that's a really goodpoint. Because, especially if
(23:03):
you're taking work calls all thetime, maybe there's things that
you're not necessarily preparedto answer right then and there.
So if you if they can leave youa message, it gives you an
opportunity to sort of preparefor that calls and understand
how you can best show up, maybethere's some answers, you need
to research yada, yada. So forme, again, it's that sort of
like a bit of an outlierperspective. Don't ever answer
(23:24):
your phone, especially if I'm ina service based industry. So
like, that's a pretty big movefor me to say. But dude, I have
25 ways to get back to you. Ican text you, I can call you
back. If I must, I can DM youlike there's a million other
ways that we can connect. I'mjust never going to answer the
phone because that's a deathtrap for me. Yeah,
Dr. Leah OH (23:42):
no, I love that. I think that's a perfect way to
like you said, acknowledgetradition pushed boundaries a
bit. That too, as you you andyour friend point out the
immediacy of it. So it's takingyour time. And then many of us
aren't at our best when it'sprompted out of the blue in an
area where our mind isn'tcurrently working. So we're not
(24:03):
giving our best self. So I lovethat idea of being able to take
that few minutes, even if youcall right back to look into
what the question is, have thatsolid response that you feel
good about. Yeah.
Deevo Tindall (24:16):
And I even have a voice message set up that says,
hey, I'm not answering phonesright now. But if this is
urgent, send me a text message.
And I'll get right back to you.
And what that does is itempowers the other person to say
you're not a dick. I'm not justignoring your phone call. But
you can certainly drop me a textmessage and we can have this
exchange in a matter of seconds.
And if that requires a phonecall, I'll make it I'll make a
point to call you back. But thething of it is, is like if I'm
in the middle of a podcast rightnow with you, and I'm over here
(24:38):
seeing my phone, I'm ringing,I'm answering like, Okay, what
happens you get distracted fromall the things that you're
focusing on and then you get offgoing down rabbit holes of all
these other things. And it'slike shit, man, I gotta get back
to the app. I forgot what I wasdoing. So for me, it's all about
like staying in my lane workingon the things that I'm doing to
get those done, move on to thenext task and that just gets in
the way and so I created this Sosocial media video around it,
(25:00):
because for me, that's a littlebit edgy. I have a different
perspective on it. But peopleare going to see that and like,
I hate that idea, or I reallylove that idea. So the whole
idea is a sort of like for offerthis information that people
that make them think that makethem ask that makes them
question themselves. So you wantyou don't want to just create
(25:20):
boring content, you want to putstuff out there that that starts
conversations, right?
Dr. Leah OH (25:25):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Awesome, awesome.
Example, in my next question,actually, we could continue with
this, because now I'm thinkingwhat are those expectations for
engaging with followers orreacting to comments? So you may
have some people like yousettling like, what? This Nope,
this would never work for me, orI love this great idea. That how
(25:46):
do you coach people and findingthat balance there?
Deevo Tindall (25:50):
So the question is, how do I coach people in
finding the balance? And how torespond to their comments? Is
that really?
Dr. Leah OH (25:55):
Yeah, how much do we engage? How much do Yeah,
man,
Deevo Tindall (25:59):
if you're, if you're not a celebrity, you
should be responding to everysingle comment you get
especially early in the game.
Now as your profile grows, andyou become really famous and
popular, which all the power toyou, then you know, you have
some you sort of have have anexcuse to not respond to a
million people that might berespond. But there's a venture
to guess that about 95% of usaren't those people. And we have
(26:19):
small onesie twosie engagements,and you know, if you don't have
the time to sit back a quickmessage to 10 people, then you
should probably not be on socialmedia. Because the whole point
of being on social media is bigidea here, be social, right?
engage in a conversation. Likeif I saw you in your office,
man, I walked up to you and waslike, hey, Penny, how's it
(26:40):
going? Are you just gonna turnaround and walk away today? I
love how you dress today. And Iloved you that keynote
yesterday, when you're talkingto friends, it was like, really?
Are you just gonna turn aroundand walk away? No, you're gonna
engage me in a conversation. Soif people are taking the time to
engage with you, you sure ashell better take the time to
engage back. And if you don'twant to engage for any other
reason, the algorithm willreward you. So if you got to
(27:02):
play on this paradigm, if you'regoing to play in this sandbox,
you might as well try to usesome of the rules to your
advantage. So you should beresponding to everybody. And you
should also be proactive abouthow you engage. And this is
where I falter. But going outand engaging with people
proactively not from a selfishperspective, like, hey, follow
me checkout, like, don't go onand be like, Hey, you should
(27:22):
come check out my class doliterally take the time. Hey, I
saw Lee, I saw your postyesterday on on on being
leadership in a corporate space.
And I thought what you said wasabsolutely genius, but had a
question about it. Could youanswer is like have a real
freaking conversation withpeople. And you'll see what
happens. Because once you'reengaging with them, and you're
(27:43):
talking with them, other peoplesee that and they still like,
hey, I want to join in thisconversation. And then before
you know, you start having thesemultiple conversations, the
compound effect kicks in. Andbefore you know you got people
like all over coming to thecheckout section. So yeah, man,
you should always be you shouldalways be engaging, always. And
Dr. Leah OH (28:00):
I love that comparison to your right. If
this was someone walking by myoffice, I would not turn my
bathroom. Shut the door. Andthat's a good thing to remember.
Is there there? Maybe not.
Deevo Tindall (28:15):
Yeah, social media is designed to be social.
That's the whole point of it.
You have an audience all overthe world that is waiting to
hear some amazing intellectualthought see that you could
potentially share with them, thefreaking share with them get out
there and do it start right now.
Just start doing it. There's youhave nothing else to lose. And
that's the other thing. That'scrazy to me. You asked that
question earlier. What do youhave to lose? Yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (28:39):
What do you have to lose? Exactly. Exactly. Now,
what
Deevo Tindall (28:43):
do you have to lose? Yeah, you have everything
to gain, but you'd literallyhave nothing to lose. So go out
there. Go be
Dr. Leah OH (28:51):
is a perfect segue to my next question. So I'm
wondering, not necessarily aboutlosing. But are there potential
risks or pitfalls for people whoare, you know, dive into these
digital platforms to promotetheir ideas and successes? Is
there anything? Yeah,
Deevo Tindall (29:07):
I mean, there was always risks with everything. I
think you just have to mitigatethose risks. And just understand
why you're showing up. I have areally interesting story to
share. I'm in the middle ofhiring a social media manager
right now. And I was sharing thestory last week of the keynote I
was doing and people thought Iwas crazy. And I was like, No,
I'll show you if you really wantto see. So I'm hiring the Social
Media Manager. And she fits allthe boxes like, fantastic,
(29:29):
right? And so I get her in aninterview, and we're having this
conversation and we're goingback and forth. And I was like,
this woman is a rock star like,what am I missing here? Yeah. So
anyway, she shares her socialmedia channels with me so I can
sort of see what she's doing.
And I'm like, Whoa, like,censorship tag needs to be put
up, right? Like, the risks are,if you're showing up as a social
(29:50):
media manager for other peoplethat you're going to be offering
your services. Do you sure ashell better have your ducks
lined up on your own and youprobably should not be putting
that information out there ifyou don't want people to see it,
because if I'm going to ask you,for example, you hire me to do
your social media, you're mostlikely going to connect with
this woman, and then you're mostlikely going to ask to follow
her, and you're most likely isgonna go check her out. And then
(30:11):
you're gonna be like, dude,who's managing my social media?
So yeah, the risks are like,it's a double edged sword, like
play your cards, right?
Understand why you're here, addvalue. And just remember, every
single piece of content you putout there can be seen by every
single person on the world. Andif you're saying things that you
don't want to say, or that yousaid, in anger, you said in a
(30:34):
passionate moment of throes ofsomething. It's out there like
you can't reverse it, you mightbe able to delete it. But
somebody's I mean, how manytimes do we see politicians
getting in trouble for somenonsense, or celebrities getting
trouble for some tweet they putout, so just like everything
else, kind of police yourself,understand your value,
understand your thought seed,and go out there. And remember
that everything you put outthere will be seen by somebody,
(30:56):
and it's inescapable. So justunderstand that space and just
operate with sort of like, apragmatic enthusiasm, if you
will, like, bridle yourself hereand there. Yes.
Dr. Leah OH (31:06):
Yeah. It's like I always tell students, if this
can go on Tinder, it's not goingon these. Like absolutely litmus
test, save
Deevo Tindall (31:16):
your only fans content for all the fans. Okay,
girlfriend. We appreciate you.
But we don't need to be seeingthat. Yeah. Sadly, I don't need
that in my LinkedIn profile.
Dr. Leah OH (31:26):
Right. So, devo. I have two final questions for
you. So I'm the communicativeleader, we leave listeners, its
pragmatic leadership orcommunication tips, advice,
challenges. So first one, whatrecommendations do you have for
our title leaders out there?
Deevo Tindall (31:43):
So in terms of just in general, or
Dr. Leah OH (31:48):
whatever you want, and we can do it with personal
branding, or if you have otherthings with all of the folks
you're working with, that youthink other title leaders need
to
Deevo Tindall (31:56):
hear? I think, you know, there's not a lot of
original content left in theworld, and a lot of the things
that I'm saying have beenrecycled by people for for
hundreds of years. So I thinkthe idea is, it's in your
delivery. So how maybe can youredefine what you want to share,
so that how you share it withpeople is is is more memorable
(32:18):
is more unique. And again, I'mnot the only person in the world
that has podcasts. I'm not theonly person who does branding,
and only person who takesphotography. But just like every
photo, you know, there's adifferent way to paint this
picture, there's a different wayand I may, you and I may be have
the same subject matter. And wewere challenged to create the
same photo, right? And butyou're gonna go take it from a
unique perspective, and I'mgoing to take it from a unique
(32:38):
perspective, I'm going to uselight here, etc. So how can you
do the same thing witheverything else you deliver? How
can you? How can you find aunique disposition, so that you
can redefine what it is you wantto deliver so that you don't
look like everyone else? Andprobably, I guess for me, how
can you continually add value,it's really important that
(33:00):
you're adding value and not justshowing up as a win horns, and
being able to communicate yourvalue with, with some clarity
and maybe a bit a little hint ofAudacity from time to time,
like, curiosity, criticalthinking and courage are sort of
like the big three for mecuriosity, critical thinking and
courage, like, how can you becurious to learn perpetually, so
that you can grow andcontinually add to your tool
(33:22):
belt? And how can you criticallythink so that you don't sound
like everyone else? So you'vetaken the time to sort of absorb
the knowledge, reframe it,rework it, understand its
impact, and then how can youhave the courage to share that
with people so that they alsocan get value. And then the
final piece for me, and this isreally what I say to everybody
show up to serve first, really,and that sounds cliche, and I'm
(33:43):
not being good samaritan here,you will never see me sell
anywhere on social media. Mostpeople know I'm selling, like
I'm selling a service, like youalready know, when you come to
my page, this is what I do. Thisis why I do it. This I'm gonna
do it. And if you like what I'msaying, there's gonna be a
conversation and opportunity tosell, but don't do it all the
time. Like add some value topeople. Don't be afraid to give
(34:03):
things and serve people. Andit's crazy when you when you
reframe that and take thatposition of things. Other people
can see that and smell thatincense that and they're gonna
be more inclined to engage withyou instead of putting up their
like X mark to get away fromyou.
Dr. Leah OH (34:18):
Yeah, yes. Yeah.
So, so helpful. And reallypragmatic. And I love that
because they the focus of thispodcast is helping people to
change their work life now,right without years of extra
schooling or new technology orpurchases. So the really helpful
in this last question, sousually done asked about
employees of all ranks andindustries. But they'll ask you
(34:40):
answer that really well. So I'mwondering about our new grads or
folks who are switchingindustries, and then people who
are identifying as a novice. Howdo they how do you recommend
they start to do they dip a toeinto this or do they dive right
in what do you what do yourecommend? Man,
Deevo Tindall (35:00):
so diving into social media diving into
entrepreneurship diving intowhat particular I think
Dr. Leah OH (35:04):
the personal branding kind of establishing
themselves was
Deevo Tindall (35:08):
the reason why you can't start now I think the
first piece is really justgetting some clarity take some
time, I you know, I had this inmy keynote last week, I had a
couple of college grads thatwere still in college that
attended this session that wasmostly filled with 4040. And
older professionals, which I waslike, and they sat and they sat
in the very front of the room.
And I was like, dude, let megive you guys high fives right
now, because this is like a goodmove. This is a Moxie move right
(35:29):
here. Most people your age areout, you know, drinking and
doing something silly, whatever.
And you're still in college, andyou decided to come to a
business professional networkingevent to hear me know, like,
that's kind of a big deal. Sofor me, I think the first thing
would, would be be very, verycurious about what your value
is, and take some time to breakthat down. So that you can
(35:51):
develop your personal brandaround something, and don't just
say, Hey, I'm gonna develop thispersonal brand, so that I can
become famous and make lots ofmoney. That's the output.
Remember, that's the output. Butthe journey is going to require
you to have some strategy behindit to get there. And so before
you can step into that journey,you sort of have to have some
GPS coordinates, but I'mdropping all kinds of
colloquialisms today andmetaphors, but have some
(36:12):
coordinates, if you will, likeunderstand where you want to go
with this. And know And knowthis, that that end wherever,
wherever it is, how audacious itmight be, there's a process
along the way, that's going torequire you to be iterative, and
flexible, and nimble andadaptive, and all those things,
and consistent and justconsistently grow into that. So
I think the first advice thatwas really long winded is just
(36:34):
sort of like get some clarityaround your value and understand
how you want to show up in theworld. And then once you've done
that, start, hire aphotographer, man, go spend a
day with somebody out inwherever, whatever your
landscape is, and spend sometime creating some content
around yourself. Don't just relyon yourself to take selfies,
like for a few $100, you canhire a photographer to spend two
or three hours with you just tocreate some content. Or if you
(36:57):
don't want to do that, go investin a decent microphone. And
again, and then just startdocumenting, I think I think
people get too carried away withcreating something, as opposed
to documenting, everythingshould be documented. If you're
going to start using socialmedia to your advantage, you've
got to arm it with withammunition. And then ammunition
is in the form of documentingthings. So you have a good idea,
(37:18):
if you were to open up my phone,like I'll just tell you right
now, like I'll just there'sprobably I'm just gonna tell you
how many have that I haven'teven done with anything with. I
have 8012 108 8000 Sorry, 80,000different notes or comments that
I've put into my phone, aboutthings or ideas or stuff that I
want to follow up on or do. AndI organize that based upon
(37:39):
social media posts or businessideas, and just start writing
things down. And journaling islike really start building and
fleshing this out. So that youcan start putting something
together. It's like building aresume, you know, like, you
don't just sit down and be like,Hey, I did like you take the
time to sort of sort andorganize all the things you're
good at. And all the things thatyou want to step into. So you're
building your personal brand isnot different is not really
dissimilar to that.
Dr. Leah OH (38:00):
Yeah, that is it's really helpful. And I like the I
think so many people don'tunderstand how you go from A to
Z, and you recognize it is thatjourney. And when we're
documenting along the way, wehave some really great content
that can help serve others andrecognizing I've been there.
Look at these posts a while ago.
Deevo Tindall (38:20):
I've been there too. I mean, it's it again, I
think the problem withespecially with younger
generations, since that's whatyou're talking about are people
in general, because we live inthis. We live in this age of
like instant gratification, wehave everything at our
fingertips, we have microwaveovens, we have food delivered to
our doors, we have anything wepossibly want can be delivered
within a matter of hours to ourfront doorstep. You know, we can
(38:42):
basically do, we've never had, Idon't know if there's ever been
a time in the history of thisstage of humanity, where we've
had so much potential andopportunities to deliver
something to someone else orreceive something and so, but
the downside of that as we'vesort of got caught up into this
sort of concept of like, oh, Iwant to be famous now I expect
(39:02):
to make the money. Oh, it'slike, dude, yeah, the world
doesn't always operate oninstant microwave delivery.
There's got to be a process yougot to build, you got to break
you got to build you got tobuild. So I got to remind myself
that as well on a regular basis.
It's not It's me. I suffer fromlike, Wait, I didn't get that
contract last week. Like whenyou start worrying about it.
Anyway, I'm going off on atangent,
Dr. Leah OH (39:23):
I'll stop. No, no, that's really really helpful at
the same thing. I you know, mydad always said Leah, they call
it work for a reason. And that'swhat I lean into in those days
when it feels harder than theother days. Well, debo, thank
you so much for sharing yourtime, your expertise. This has
really been a blast. But moreimportantly, I know what's
(39:43):
really going to help listeners.
Deevo Tindall (39:45):
I appreciate the time thank you for having me on
as a guest I really loved it.
Dr. Leah OH (39:49):
All right, my friends. That wraps up our
conversation today. Until nexttime, you indicate with
intention and lead with purpose.
And looking forward to chattingwith you again soon. I'm the
communicative leader
Deevo Tindall is the chief experience officer and
leading expert in marketing andbranding. And this episode of
the communicative leader Deevohelps us think through how to
best position ourselves asthought leaders in our
respective industries. Hello,and welcome to the communicative
leader hosted by me, Dr. LeahOmilion-Hodges, my friends call
(00:22):
me Dr. OH. I'm a Professor ofCommunication and a leadership
communication expert, and thecommunicative leader, we're
working to make your work lifewhat you want it to be. Do you
vote Thank you so much forjoining us on the communicative
leader, I really excited tolearn from you. Before we really
(00:44):
dive into our conversation, canyou tell us a bit about yourself
a
Deevo Tindall (00:48):
little bit about myself? How far back do I get to
go?
Dr. Leah OH (00:51):
Oh, your choice.
Deevo Tindall (00:54):
I'll just give you the high level version.
Well, I'm a I run a couple ofbusinesses in Charlotte, North
Carolina. They're called thefusion brands. One of them is a
photography studio that's beenaround since 2006. And then in
the last two years, I launched anew division called Fusion
creative. So the long and shortof that is as we are a branding
and marketing agency, and wehelp small businesses and
(01:16):
entrepreneurs help share theirmessage with a larger audience
using social media, digitalmarketing, all the different
tools, but more importantly,creating content that tells the
story and then using thatcontent to amplify to a very
specific type of audiencesthere. So they're very well
equipped to speak their languageand what they're really good at
to the right type of audience.
So we teach CEOs how to do thatproperly.
Dr. Leah OH (01:41):
Yeah, music to my ears is a communication scholar.
I love that. So you take a stepback, we think about audience,
we think about content are morelikely to have successful
results. Absolutely.
Deevo Tindall (01:55):
The business was born from that very gap, I just,
I was finding out that a lot ofsmall business owners,
specifically Small BusinessCEOs, and entrepreneurs didn't
really know what to do once theyhad good content created, it
just sort of sat on a digitalGrodd drive and collected
digital dust. And so we set outto kind of fill that gap. Yeah,
(02:15):
really cool.
Dr. Leah OH (02:16):
So you know that you are a branding expert. And
today I'd like to think aboutkind of the intersection of
leadership and personalbranding. So to that end, how
important that is a personalbrand for leaders?
Deevo Tindall (02:31):
Well, I don't think a lot of people think
about personal brands, so weshould probably define what that
looks like. But for me personalbranding, it's it's really it's
a it's a quintessential GameChanger really to be. To be
truthful with, it's going toit's sort of the alchemy of
transforming from just anotherindustry player to somebody who
(02:51):
has a gold standard of thingsthat are about them, it becomes
it becomes it gives people anoutlet to express themselves
outside of just their business.
So for example, you know, yourun a podcast, you have a
successful business, but maybethere's other things and other
avenues that you want to connectwith a larger audience or very
more specific audience, maybeyou wanna start doing keynotes,
maybe you want to write a book,maybe we want to show up on
(03:11):
podcasts like I do. And sopeople only know you as the CEO
of this company, or they onlyknow you as the host of this
podcast, or they only know youin the capacity that which you
primarily serve, right. And sodeveloping a personal brand,
takes that to a whole differentlevel, and gives you the
opportunity to expose yourselfto a larger audience so that you
can further amplify whatever itis that you're trying to sell,
(03:34):
teach, educate, inspire, etc.
And so if you if you're able todevelop that personal brand,
very strategically and cogently,then you can use those side by
side with not only yourbusiness, but connecting to a
much larger audience, differenttype of person that you had ever
connected with before, on apersonal level, but also on a
large group level.
Dr. Leah OH (03:53):
Yeah, and I love it was so succinct from an industry
player to the gold standard.
Yeah, that is that is abeautiful way to illustrate
that. We
Deevo Tindall (04:03):
everybody, everybody, I mean, so the whole
sorry, I didn't mean tointerrupt your whole, the whole
key around that whole personalbranding space is that, you
know, there's 1000s ofpodcasters just like you and I
right, there's 1000s of CEOs whodo operate in the same industry,
there are all kinds of peopledoing the same thing. And we're
all competing for the same setof eyeballs. So anything that we
can do as leaders to totransform what we stand for what
(04:28):
we believe in our valueproposition, and then really use
that to share that message on amore personal level with the
larger audience enables us tonot only continue doing what
we're doing, and from our fromour business side of view, but
then again, expansion to a wholedifferent market. We had never
been considered before,potentially. Yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (04:45):
And so with that in mind, what are some of the what
is some impact that you've seenthis kind of personal branding,
or amplifying this message haveon someone's success? Well,
Deevo Tindall (04:56):
for example, I'll just use me as an example I show
up in about 60 60 to 100podcasts a year. And it's not a
week doesn't go by that somepodcast was heard by some person
who then reaches out to me,because they want more
information and they want to dobusiness with me or they want to
connect with me or they want tobe on my podcast. And for me,
personal branding is really thecornerstone of that is not
(05:19):
selling per se, it's not so muchthat you're selling yourself to
a different audience. That's theoutcome. But it's really more
about setting up an advantagefor you so that you can connect
with a larger audience and builda brand, not just around your
business, but around some of theother things that you might not
be able to do in your business,like keynotes, write books, show
up on podcasts, etc. And justoffer a different side of
(05:41):
yourself that you hadn'tconsidered before. But really,
the bottom line of it is justbeing able to connect with a
much larger audience. I can'ttell you how beneficial it's
been for me. I've bookedkeynotes from it. I've booked
podcast guests from it, I bookedbusinesses from it, I got a call
this morning from somebody whoreached out to me on LinkedIn,
she saw, she heard me on apodcast like a month ago. And
(06:02):
she found out that I'm runningthis 30 day course challenge for
entrepreneurs. And she's like,I've got 10 People who want to
sign up for this. So it's just,I can't speak volumes enough
about being able to use yourselfas the icon to build something
bigger than you've already done.
Dr. Leah OH (06:19):
Yeah, right.
Because we're, we're dynamic,it's not static. It's not just a
logo. It's not just a slogan.
And I love that you hit in on oryou said it's not necessarily
selling. So I think some peopleat first blush are like, Oh, I
don't know that I could do thatwith myself. But it's
connection, it's getting yourname and those services out
(06:41):
there.
Deevo Tindall (06:42):
Yeah, you do that every day. If you if you stop
and think about it, like you'reliterally doing it every day.
And and one thing that I teach alot of my clients is that, you
know, you're basicallynetworking and connecting 24/7,
from, from sitting at your kidsbasketball game, to grabbing
coffee in line to at the grocerystore, like you're literally
always connecting, so why nothave some purpose behind that,
(07:03):
and some and some impetus behindthat so that you can actually
connect on a professional leveland share whatever it is that
you're trying to share with theworld. I mean, that there's
something you do really well,right? So how can we get that
message out there to a largeraudience? And don't be afraid to
do like, this is what we're herefor. We're here to make a
difference.
Dr. Leah OH (07:19):
Yeah, yeah. So with that in mind, what are some key
steps or strategies so that aleader could take to create the
strong and authentic personalbrand,
Deevo Tindall (07:30):
I think, first and foremost being very, very
clear on why and how and what itis that you that you're doing
that you want to show up for. Soif if you're showing up on
podcasts, like me have a veryclear value proposition on what
it is that you bring to thetable. So if you want to write a
book, be very clear on what thevalue is that you want, and the
lesson that you want to impartin the people reading your book.
(07:52):
So you hear this all the time,it sounds cliche, there's 1000s
of books being written on itnow. But if if you can
understand your purpose, andyour Northstar around what your
personal brand looks like, thenyou're going to be better
equipped to share that messagewith the audience that you're
specifically targeting, to reachin the first place. And so one
of the things that we do is it'ssort of like a personal brand
(08:13):
audit, if you will, it's a branddiscovery, and really kind of
deep dive and get, get under thecovers and figure out who are
you man? What do you do? What doyou do really well, what what's
your value? Why would I give youmy money to exchange this
resource exchange for yourinformation? How is it going to
make my life different, better,more enhanced, etc. And so if
you can figure all those thingsout on what your message looks
(08:35):
like, then you're gonna be moreequipped to better sell that
better hat better deliver thatmessage to the audience you're
trying to deliver to? And
Dr. Leah OH (08:43):
I think too, and you're talking about I think we
spend so much time externallyfocused, we research the new
car, we even figure out whatwhat grocery store am I going to
bring my money to. But we don'tturn that internally as often as
we should. And so I think whatyou're saying kidding, it's
considering what those valuesare that we hold, and then how
(09:05):
it is we do things slightlydifferent than others.
Deevo Tindall (09:08):
Absolutely. Have you ever done anything like that
yourself? To a personal selfdiscovery?
Dr. Leah OH (09:15):
Here, and they're not in the deepest dive that I
should I actually, as part of mymy day job, I teach PR and
writing and research. So I'vedone some of it there. I've done
some of it with working withthis podcast, but not as fully
as I should.
Deevo Tindall (09:33):
Yeah, a good friend of mine, Gary, many, many
years ago, when I left thecorporate world, I was just sort
of sitting down with peopletrying to figure out you know
what it is I wanted to do when Igrew up. Yeah. And he said
something to me, this is like 20years ago, and he says something
to me, that has resonated withme. We are unable to read our
label when we get stuck insideof our own jar. And so it's
interesting, you know, it's whypeople have therapists. It's why
(09:55):
people have coaches. It's whypeople seek outside counsel
because we're not really able tosort of understand who we are
because we've lived withourselves the entire time. And
most people don't take the timeto sort of step back and be
introspective about who I am.
What's my value? What do I do?
Why am I here? Like, what is it,I'm here to deliver. And we get
sort of stuck in this treadmillof just like, perpetually doing
(10:18):
the same thing without everreally understanding our clear
impact. So these personalaudits, these personal
discoveries are an opportunityfor you to be introspective and
self awareness on what yourvalue is to the universe, and
then find a way to, to propagatethat and then share it.
Dr. Leah OH (10:32):
Yeah. And what a gift for self. to really hone in
on that. Point.
Deevo Tindall (10:38):
Brilliant point.
Yeah, well, you're right. Wedon't get ourselves very often
we sort of have this idea thatwe're, and it's great, you know,
we're here to serve, we're hereto add value, all these sorts of
things. But if we're, if we'renot, if we are not a full
person, if we're not able tofully develop who we are and
understand who we are, we'reless equipped to be able to
deliver the people who want toserve in the first place,
whether their father as apartner as CEO, whatever it is,
(10:59):
right? Yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (11:02):
Yeah. So depot, in your opinion, what are some of
the common misconceptions ormyths that you've heard about
personal branding or the othershould be kind of aware of as
they start this, this personalaudit
Deevo Tindall (11:15):
topic a lot of people have, have, they have
impostor syndrome around aroundwho they are, first and
foremost, and because of thatimposter syndrome. They think
that personal branding is onlyfor like these big celebrities,
or these really high profilepublic figures, or that social
media influencer that I saw thathas a million followers and is
doing. And the thing is, isthose people were once the
(11:37):
person you consider yourself asand so the difference between
they and you is that they havethe courage, and the Moxie to
step off that platform and say,I'm going to do this. So they
just started by starting. And sothe biggest misconception is
that it's reserved for peoplethat everyone else but you, and
I always sort of say like, whynot? You? Like, why not? You?
(11:59):
What are you good at? Why Whywould someone else even if it's
just one person, not want to bereceived receiving that message?
Like, why not you? And then Ithink another misconception is
that a lot of people think it'sa, they lose hope, because they
think it is a one time effort.
And they posted that one time onsocial media. And they went on
(12:19):
that one podcast, and it didn'tresult in anything like Whoa,
man, I show up on like, 100podcasts a year. And I'll tell
you, like, a few of them reallyhave a ripple effect. Some of
them are a waste of time. Butsorry, let me rephrase that.
Some of them might appear as awaste of time. That's not the
case. Because you never knowwho's listening. You never know
(12:40):
who's watching. And it's not aset it and forget, forget it
task. It's sort of like aconsistent, always ongoing job
to be able to share why someoneelse would want to do that
resource exchange with you.
Dr. Leah OH (12:55):
Yeah, so in some ways, it kind of sounds like it
becomes more of a lifestyle, aprofessional lifestyle. And I
love that you use the word Maxi,because one, I don't think we
hear that enough. So important.
But recognizing again, we don't,it's not we check it off on our
list one time, wash your handsof it and move on.
Deevo Tindall (13:17):
I mean, it's not it's not dissimilar to anything
else in your life. If you thinkabout the things that you're
really good at, whether it's afitness program, or a new diet
you started or even the jobyou're in, like, you didn't just
go to work one day and be like,Oh, I'm suddenly an expert
there. There is a lot ofsubtleties and nuances to
promoting yourself to buildingthis personal brand. And I think
a lot of people get stuck onthat whole word of promoting
myself, it sounds narcissisticand vain and all that. But if
(13:41):
you're not going to do it, thensomeone else is going to do it.
So why not you? And it's notit's not a vain context, if you
don't look at it from a vaincontext. If you reframe that
juxtaposition as saying, I'mreally passionate about this
particular thing. And I feellike when I've shared this with
other people, it's made adifference in their life,
whether it's a book, whetherit's a story, whether it's
(14:02):
poetry, whether it's keynotes.
And if you can just reframe thatfrom the standpoint of I'm here
to deliver something to someoneelse to make their life a little
bit easier, better, etc, then itmight, it might enable you to
sort of get rid of that vanitymetric that you're that you're
sort of measuring yourself by.
Dr. Leah OH (14:18):
Yeah, exactly. And I think you're right, that that
is a hurdle to get over. Andmaybe sometimes we have to keep
running that race and jumpingthose hurdles. But if we, if
we're committed to this, andwe're doing it, how do you
recommend, you know, leveragingsocial media for thinking
Instagram X tick tock, ticktock, you know, how do we do
that and still maintain ourprofessional image?
Deevo Tindall (14:41):
Well, first and foremost, it really goes back to
that purpose that I was talkingabout the outline and really
understanding what's the valuethat you're going to be bringing
to the table and being very,very, very crystal clear on that
brand message. So just like youwould do with your business,
just like you would do with yourcompany. You have a mission you
have an objective you have avision Are you you sort of
understand what your brandmessage looks like. And then
(15:03):
what from that point on, createa strategy centered around
content creation, and, andphotos, videos and social media
or paid advertising all thedifferent tools, I mean, there's
a bevy of tools at our disposalright now. And you just have to
pick, I wouldn't say you have toplay in all of them, I would
say, start small, pick maybe onesocial media channel that you
really feel comfortable with,and that you think your audience
(15:26):
might be hanging out on. Andthen put together a content
strategy, within that contentstrategy, have a diverse set of
content, ideas, whether it'svideos, whether it's
photography, whether it's justinspirational quotes, things
that you feel you can best showup in, and then plan that in
advance, don't try to shoot fromthe hip every morning. And then
(15:46):
one of the things that I suggesteverybody is you can batch
create most of that content. Ifyou just devote a few hours
every week or every other otherweek. However, whatever your
efficiencies are, and you batchcreate this content, which is
tied directly to the strategythat you already developed in
advance, you'll find that youcan sort of use this content on
demand as opposed to likethinking, what am I going to
(16:06):
post it? I have no idea what amI talking about? And so if
you're very strategic about it,just like you would be with your
business, then you can also youcan attack your own personal
band from that same perspective.
Yeah,
Dr. Leah OH (16:17):
and I love those.
Obviously, your expertise thatbatch creating where an offset
like people might say, There'sno way my schedule doesn't
permit for this, I canaccommodate it. We want to do
it, we can, right? We're justfiguring out how do we block
that time?
Deevo Tindall (16:32):
Well, for that hour and a half, that you're
going to watch Netflix latertonight or for that for that
1020 3040 minutes that you'regoing to sit in your bed in the
morning, scrolling through yourInstagram, reprioritize that
reprioritize that and set asidesome time, like I filmed 10
videos this morning between 6amand 9am. And now I have those
videos filmed and ready to go,I'm going to put them into my
(16:53):
content calendar, I'm going todistribute them on different
channels. And and but I'vealready had it done. Now I have
10 pieces of content that I cancut up, I can Evergreen. And
that's another thing. A lot ofpeople think that just because
you film something on oneparticular day that it has to be
used that day, and it doesn't,you can create content around
the sort of the idea ofdocumenting stuff, and then use
(17:13):
it in a future state or reuse itin a future state or repurpose
it for a future state. Itdoesn't have to be that one to
one I post it. So now I have toshare it. Like build a library
of content. Yep. Build, keepbuilding it. Keep building it.
Dr. Leah OH (17:25):
Yeah. And like you said, you had this all done
before 9am, where most peopleare just showing up to lock onto
their computers, right?
Deevo Tindall (17:34):
Well, I have the benefit of working from home.
Yeah, a lot of times, so I'mable to, to afford myself that
luxury, if you will. But again,I refuse to hear from people who
say that they don't have timefor it. Because then when I sit
down and break down theircalendar with them, and I take a
look at if you were to spinhere's here's a great exercise
for anybody's doubting me. Takea notebook today, today, start
(17:55):
first thing tomorrow morning.
And I want you to literallydocument your entire day. And I
want you to take a look atliterally at the end of the day,
had lunch from 1126 to well 45.
It was on my Instagram from1245, et cetera, right? And then
at the end of the day, if youlook at those notes, and you can
honestly tell me that youcouldn't find 30 minutes or an
hour somewhere in that gap ofwasted time, then okay, cool.
(18:18):
But I would bet that 99% of thepeople, once they journaled
themselves for the day would beable to see gaps where they
could reprioritize rewardreorganize their day, put their
phone away, not be scrollingthrough it and get get this done
something for themselves.
Dr. Leah OH (18:31):
Yep. Bingo. I do this exercise with my students a
lot. And it's just thinkingabout how a lot of times we've
never learned time managementand what a powerful tool it can
be. So thinking then, you know,digital media, I'm thinking
about our leaders out there whoare trying to stand out, like
(18:51):
you said, move from just anindustry player to gold
standard. What are some of thebest practices for them on
LinkedIn?
Deevo Tindall (18:59):
I think for me, that's a great question, because
I'm totally with LinkedIn rightnow. And one of the strategies
that I have found first andforemost, it has to be
consistent. And secondly, therehas to be some sort of a value
value add, but you can't justshow up and talk about your
promotion or, or everything. Forme, I like to shake things up.
And I don't want to just postthe same stuff, because
(19:21):
everyone's posting the exactsame thing. So and it's not
shake things up so that you looklike this rogue rebel. I'm not
saying that. But like, if you ifyou are speaking about, let's
say you're a business coach,because I work with a lot of
business coaches, and you'retraining other people and
entrepreneurs, CEOs, etc. Thinkabout some of the things that
you tell them that you mightsort of have a little bit of a
(19:43):
tendency to not share in public.
How can you reframe thatinformation and put that out
there? Again, the idea is to beable to add value, respect the
rules, but do not be afraid tobend the rules. Be a leader who
speaks not just to informpeople, but really challenges
and stimulate sort of this newway of thinking I think because
you're in this position, with,with with access to eight and a
half billion people like, truly,you have the opportunity to use
(20:06):
this as it's not just an echochamber, but to really introduce
some of the fresh perspectivesthat you have, that you have in
your mind or these ideas thatyou have. And don't just come at
it from a standpoint of like,I'm just here to disrupt, but
lead with a blend of wisdom andsome daring and, and it's sort
of like, it's sort of like wheretradition meets innovation, if
(20:27):
you will, like how can you findthat small little break in and
without being too audacious, butat the same time being a little
bit bold and calculated and howyou address stuff. And be be
curious, take a look at whatother people are doing. And then
say, Okay, I see 10 out of it.
Nine out of the 10 people thatI'm I've just followed basically
(20:48):
said the same thing. What whatis it that I'm really good at
and passionate about that I canshare that might add some value
to them. And don't just deliverit in the same way. And don't be
afraid to use differentmethodologies to deliver your
message. Like don't always justpost text, maybe get on a video,
maybe do a LinkedIn live, maybepost a recorded video, I'm not
saying you have to dance, you'renever gonna see me dance. But
(21:09):
you know, be original man,everyone, everyone else has
already taken like you're theonly one left. So be you.
Dr. Leah OH (21:15):
Yeah, that is really, really helpful. And I
love that idea of respectingrules, but not being afraid of
to ban them. And you just saidit so beautifully, that
intersection of tradition andinnovation, because we don't
want to alienate those who aremore traditional and have taken
that path and lean into that.
But we also don't want to getstuck there, either. Yeah,
Deevo Tindall (21:38):
I give you a perfect example of this. Because
people are like, Oh, that'seasy. And I mean, sorry, that's
really difficult. And it's easyfor you, you do it all the time.
But I was once you I had tostart somewhere once before as
well. And so, you know, today'spost on LinkedIn that I recorded
is going to be centered aroundit's a video, I just literally
put my phone in on my on mytripod, and I just recorded a
quick video. And one of thethings that was it came from a
(21:59):
conversation I was having lastweek with my workout buddy. We
go to the gym every morning atfive o'clock. And we were sort
of sitting there He's like, he'slike, do you know I can never
get you to answer your phone.
And I was like, Dude, how manytimes I have to tell you just
text me first. And I'll call youback. My phone is never turned
on. I will not answer the phone.
Answering the phone is a deathtrap for distraction. There are
(22:19):
only three people who haveaccess to my phone, my two kids
and my wife. And they can callme anytime they want. They can
get me on anytime they want thatyou can set up your phone for
emergency contacts to get there.
But anything else, forget aboutit, you're never going to answer
the phone and the Phone doesn'teven ring. And it's because in
my business, I own twobusinesses, I've got a bunch of
other stuff going on. My phonewould literally ring me all day
long. And so my post today islike, Okay, some of you are
(22:42):
gonna probably call me crazy forsaying this. But turn your
goddamn phone off. Because yourphone might literally my phone's
turned off all day long. I willnot touch my phone during
business hours. Because I don'twant to get stuck in the
Instagram or the LinkedIn trap.
I don't want to be answering thephone. And here's another
sidebar that he brought up. Thatwasn't even my point. He's like,
you know, that's a really goodpoint. Because, especially if
(23:03):
you're taking work calls all thetime, maybe there's things that
you're not necessarily preparedto answer right then and there.
So if you if they can leave youa message, it gives you an
opportunity to sort of preparefor that calls and understand
how you can best show up, maybethere's some answers, you need
to research yada, yada. So forme, again, it's that sort of
like a bit of an outlierperspective. Don't ever answer
(23:24):
your phone, especially if I'm ina service based industry. So
like, that's a pretty big movefor me to say. But dude, I have
25 ways to get back to you. Ican text you, I can call you
back. If I must, I can DM youlike there's a million other
ways that we can connect. I'mjust never going to answer the
phone because that's a deathtrap for me. Yeah,
Dr. Leah OH (23:42):
no, I love that. I think that's a perfect way to
like you said, acknowledgetradition pushed boundaries a
bit. That too, as you you andyour friend point out the
immediacy of it. So it's takingyour time. And then many of us
aren't at our best when it'sprompted out of the blue in an
area where our mind isn'tcurrently working. So we're not
(24:03):
giving our best self. So I lovethat idea of being able to take
that few minutes, even if youcall right back to look into
what the question is, have thatsolid response that you feel
good about. Yeah.
Deevo Tindall (24:16):
And I even have a voice message set up that says,
hey, I'm not answering phonesright now. But if this is
urgent, send me a text message.
And I'll get right back to you.
And what that does is itempowers the other person to say
you're not a dick. I'm not justignoring your phone call. But
you can certainly drop me a textmessage and we can have this
exchange in a matter of seconds.
And if that requires a phonecall, I'll make it I'll make a
point to call you back. But thething of it is, is like if I'm
in the middle of a podcast rightnow with you, and I'm over here
(24:38):
seeing my phone, I'm ringing,I'm answering like, Okay, what
happens you get distracted fromall the things that you're
focusing on and then you get offgoing down rabbit holes of all
these other things. And it'slike shit, man, I gotta get back
to the app. I forgot what I wasdoing. So for me, it's all about
like staying in my lane workingon the things that I'm doing to
get those done, move on to thenext task and that just gets in
the way and so I created this Sosocial media video around it,
(25:00):
because for me, that's a littlebit edgy. I have a different
perspective on it. But peopleare going to see that and like,
I hate that idea, or I reallylove that idea. So the whole
idea is a sort of like for offerthis information that people
that make them think that makethem ask that makes them
question themselves. So you wantyou don't want to just create
(25:20):
boring content, you want to putstuff out there that that starts
conversations, right?
Dr. Leah OH (25:25):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Awesome, awesome.
Example, in my next question,actually, we could continue with
this, because now I'm thinkingwhat are those expectations for
engaging with followers orreacting to comments? So you may
have some people like yousettling like, what? This Nope,
this would never work for me, orI love this great idea. That how
(25:46):
do you coach people and findingthat balance there?
Deevo Tindall (25:50):
So the question is, how do I coach people in
finding the balance? And how torespond to their comments? Is
that really?
Dr. Leah OH (25:55):
Yeah, how much do we engage? How much do Yeah,
man,
Deevo Tindall (25:59):
if you're, if you're not a celebrity, you
should be responding to everysingle comment you get
especially early in the game.
Now as your profile grows, andyou become really famous and
popular, which all the power toyou, then you know, you have
some you sort of have have anexcuse to not respond to a
million people that might berespond. But there's a venture
to guess that about 95% of usaren't those people. And we have
(26:19):
small onesie twosie engagements,and you know, if you don't have
the time to sit back a quickmessage to 10 people, then you
should probably not be on socialmedia. Because the whole point
of being on social media is bigidea here, be social, right?
engage in a conversation. Likeif I saw you in your office,
man, I walked up to you and waslike, hey, Penny, how's it
(26:40):
going? Are you just gonna turnaround and walk away today? I
love how you dress today. And Iloved you that keynote
yesterday, when you're talkingto friends, it was like, really?
Are you just gonna turn aroundand walk away? No, you're gonna
engage me in a conversation. Soif people are taking the time to
engage with you, you sure ashell better take the time to
engage back. And if you don'twant to engage for any other
reason, the algorithm willreward you. So if you got to
(27:02):
play on this paradigm, if you'regoing to play in this sandbox,
you might as well try to usesome of the rules to your
advantage. So you should beresponding to everybody. And you
should also be proactive abouthow you engage. And this is
where I falter. But going outand engaging with people
proactively not from a selfishperspective, like, hey, follow
me checkout, like, don't go onand be like, Hey, you should
(27:22):
come check out my class doliterally take the time. Hey, I
saw Lee, I saw your postyesterday on on on being
leadership in a corporate space.
And I thought what you said wasabsolutely genius, but had a
question about it. Could youanswer is like have a real
freaking conversation withpeople. And you'll see what
happens. Because once you'reengaging with them, and you're
(27:43):
talking with them, other peoplesee that and they still like,
hey, I want to join in thisconversation. And then before
you know, you start having thesemultiple conversations, the
compound effect kicks in. Andbefore you know you got people
like all over coming to thecheckout section. So yeah, man,
you should always be you shouldalways be engaging, always. And
Dr. Leah OH (28:00):
I love that comparison to your right. If
this was someone walking by myoffice, I would not turn my
bathroom. Shut the door. Andthat's a good thing to remember.
Is there there? Maybe not.
Deevo Tindall (28:15):
Yeah, social media is designed to be social.
That's the whole point of it.
You have an audience all overthe world that is waiting to
hear some amazing intellectualthought see that you could
potentially share with them, thefreaking share with them get out
there and do it start right now.
Just start doing it. There's youhave nothing else to lose. And
that's the other thing. That'scrazy to me. You asked that
question earlier. What do youhave to lose? Yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (28:39):
What do you have to lose? Exactly. Exactly. Now,
what
Deevo Tindall (28:43):
do you have to lose? Yeah, you have everything
to gain, but you'd literallyhave nothing to lose. So go out
there. Go be
Dr. Leah OH (28:51):
is a perfect segue to my next question. So I'm
wondering, not necessarily aboutlosing. But are there potential
risks or pitfalls for people whoare, you know, dive into these
digital platforms to promotetheir ideas and successes? Is
there anything? Yeah,
Deevo Tindall (29:07):
I mean, there was always risks with everything. I
think you just have to mitigatethose risks. And just understand
why you're showing up. I have areally interesting story to
share. I'm in the middle ofhiring a social media manager
right now. And I was sharing thestory last week of the keynote I
was doing and people thought Iwas crazy. And I was like, No,
I'll show you if you really wantto see. So I'm hiring the Social
Media Manager. And she fits allthe boxes like, fantastic,
(29:29):
right? And so I get her in aninterview, and we're having this
conversation and we're goingback and forth. And I was like,
this woman is a rock star like,what am I missing here? Yeah. So
anyway, she shares her socialmedia channels with me so I can
sort of see what she's doing.
And I'm like, Whoa, like,censorship tag needs to be put
up, right? Like, the risks are,if you're showing up as a social
(29:50):
media manager for other peoplethat you're going to be offering
your services. Do you sure ashell better have your ducks
lined up on your own and youprobably should not be putting
that information out there ifyou don't want people to see it,
because if I'm going to ask you,for example, you hire me to do
your social media, you're mostlikely going to connect with
this woman, and then you're mostlikely going to ask to follow
her, and you're most likely isgonna go check her out. And then
(30:11):
you're gonna be like, dude,who's managing my social media?
So yeah, the risks are like,it's a double edged sword, like
play your cards, right?
Understand why you're here, addvalue. And just remember, every
single piece of content you putout there can be seen by every
single person on the world. Andif you're saying things that you
don't want to say, or that yousaid, in anger, you said in a
(30:34):
passionate moment of throes ofsomething. It's out there like
you can't reverse it, you mightbe able to delete it. But
somebody's I mean, how manytimes do we see politicians
getting in trouble for somenonsense, or celebrities getting
trouble for some tweet they putout, so just like everything
else, kind of police yourself,understand your value,
understand your thought seed,and go out there. And remember
that everything you put outthere will be seen by somebody,
(30:56):
and it's inescapable. So justunderstand that space and just
operate with sort of like, apragmatic enthusiasm, if you
will, like, bridle yourself hereand there. Yes.
Dr. Leah OH (31:06):
Yeah. It's like I always tell students, if this
can go on Tinder, it's not goingon these. Like absolutely litmus
test, save
Deevo Tindall (31:16):
your only fans content for all the fans. Okay,
girlfriend. We appreciate you.
But we don't need to be seeingthat. Yeah. Sadly, I don't need
that in my LinkedIn profile.
Dr. Leah OH (31:26):
Right. So, devo. I have two final questions for
you. So I'm the communicativeleader, we leave listeners, its
pragmatic leadership orcommunication tips, advice,
challenges. So first one, whatrecommendations do you have for
our title leaders out there?
Deevo Tindall (31:43):
So in terms of just in general, or
Dr. Leah OH (31:48):
whatever you want, and we can do it with personal
branding, or if you have otherthings with all of the folks
you're working with, that youthink other title leaders need
to
Deevo Tindall (31:56):
hear? I think, you know, there's not a lot of
original content left in theworld, and a lot of the things
that I'm saying have beenrecycled by people for for
hundreds of years. So I thinkthe idea is, it's in your
delivery. So how maybe can youredefine what you want to share,
so that how you share it withpeople is is is more memorable
(32:18):
is more unique. And again, I'mnot the only person in the world
that has podcasts. I'm not theonly person who does branding,
and only person who takesphotography. But just like every
photo, you know, there's adifferent way to paint this
picture, there's a different wayand I may, you and I may be have
the same subject matter. And wewere challenged to create the
same photo, right? And butyou're gonna go take it from a
unique perspective, and I'mgoing to take it from a unique
(32:38):
perspective, I'm going to uselight here, etc. So how can you
do the same thing witheverything else you deliver? How
can you? How can you find aunique disposition, so that you
can redefine what it is you wantto deliver so that you don't
look like everyone else? Andprobably, I guess for me, how
can you continually add value,it's really important that
(33:00):
you're adding value and not justshowing up as a win horns, and
being able to communicate yourvalue with, with some clarity
and maybe a bit a little hint ofAudacity from time to time,
like, curiosity, criticalthinking and courage are sort of
like the big three for mecuriosity, critical thinking and
courage, like, how can you becurious to learn perpetually, so
that you can grow andcontinually add to your tool
(33:22):
belt? And how can you criticallythink so that you don't sound
like everyone else? So you'vetaken the time to sort of absorb
the knowledge, reframe it,rework it, understand its
impact, and then how can youhave the courage to share that
with people so that they alsocan get value. And then the
final piece for me, and this isreally what I say to everybody
show up to serve first, really,and that sounds cliche, and I'm
(33:43):
not being good samaritan here,you will never see me sell
anywhere on social media. Mostpeople know I'm selling, like
I'm selling a service, like youalready know, when you come to
my page, this is what I do. Thisis why I do it. This I'm gonna
do it. And if you like what I'msaying, there's gonna be a
conversation and opportunity tosell, but don't do it all the
time. Like add some value topeople. Don't be afraid to give
(34:03):
things and serve people. Andit's crazy when you when you
reframe that and take thatposition of things. Other people
can see that and smell thatincense that and they're gonna
be more inclined to engage withyou instead of putting up their
like X mark to get away fromyou.
Dr. Leah OH (34:18):
Yeah, yes. Yeah.
So, so helpful. And reallypragmatic. And I love that
because they the focus of thispodcast is helping people to
change their work life now,right without years of extra
schooling or new technology orpurchases. So the really helpful
in this last question, sousually done asked about
employees of all ranks andindustries. But they'll ask you
(34:40):
answer that really well. So I'mwondering about our new grads or
folks who are switchingindustries, and then people who
are identifying as a novice. Howdo they how do you recommend
they start to do they dip a toeinto this or do they dive right
in what do you what do yourecommend? Man,
Deevo Tindall (35:00):
so diving into social media diving into
entrepreneurship diving intowhat particular I think
Dr. Leah OH (35:04):
the personal branding kind of establishing
themselves was
Deevo Tindall (35:08):
the reason why you can't start now I think the
first piece is really justgetting some clarity take some
time, I you know, I had this inmy keynote last week, I had a
couple of college grads thatwere still in college that
attended this session that wasmostly filled with 4040. And
older professionals, which I waslike, and they sat and they sat
in the very front of the room.
And I was like, dude, let megive you guys high fives right
now, because this is like a goodmove. This is a Moxie move right
(35:29):
here. Most people your age areout, you know, drinking and
doing something silly, whatever.
And you're still in college, andyou decided to come to a
business professional networkingevent to hear me know, like,
that's kind of a big deal. Sofor me, I think the first thing
would, would be be very, verycurious about what your value
is, and take some time to breakthat down. So that you can
(35:51):
develop your personal brandaround something, and don't just
say, Hey, I'm gonna develop thispersonal brand, so that I can
become famous and make lots ofmoney. That's the output.
Remember, that's the output. Butthe journey is going to require
you to have some strategy behindit to get there. And so before
you can step into that journey,you sort of have to have some
GPS coordinates, but I'mdropping all kinds of
colloquialisms today andmetaphors, but have some
(36:12):
coordinates, if you will, likeunderstand where you want to go
with this. And know And knowthis, that that end wherever,
wherever it is, how audacious itmight be, there's a process
along the way, that's going torequire you to be iterative, and
flexible, and nimble andadaptive, and all those things,
and consistent and justconsistently grow into that. So
I think the first advice thatwas really long winded is just
(36:34):
sort of like get some clarityaround your value and understand
how you want to show up in theworld. And then once you've done
that, start, hire aphotographer, man, go spend a
day with somebody out inwherever, whatever your
landscape is, and spend sometime creating some content
around yourself. Don't just relyon yourself to take selfies,
like for a few $100, you canhire a photographer to spend two
or three hours with you just tocreate some content. Or if you
(36:57):
don't want to do that, go investin a decent microphone. And
again, and then just startdocumenting, I think I think
people get too carried away withcreating something, as opposed
to documenting, everythingshould be documented. If you're
going to start using socialmedia to your advantage, you've
got to arm it with withammunition. And then ammunition
is in the form of documentingthings. So you have a good idea,
(37:18):
if you were to open up my phone,like I'll just tell you right
now, like I'll just there'sprobably I'm just gonna tell you
how many have that I haven'teven done with anything with. I
have 8012 108 8000 Sorry, 80,000different notes or comments that
I've put into my phone, aboutthings or ideas or stuff that I
want to follow up on or do. AndI organize that based upon
(37:39):
social media posts or businessideas, and just start writing
things down. And journaling islike really start building and
fleshing this out. So that youcan start putting something
together. It's like building aresume, you know, like, you
don't just sit down and be like,Hey, I did like you take the
time to sort of sort andorganize all the things you're
good at. And all the things thatyou want to step into. So you're
building your personal brand isnot different is not really
dissimilar to that.
Dr. Leah OH (38:00):
Yeah, that is it's really helpful. And I like the I
think so many people don'tunderstand how you go from A to
Z, and you recognize it is thatjourney. And when we're
documenting along the way, wehave some really great content
that can help serve others andrecognizing I've been there.
Look at these posts a while ago.
Deevo Tindall (38:20):
I've been there too. I mean, it's it again, I
think the problem withespecially with younger
generations, since that's whatyou're talking about are people
in general, because we live inthis. We live in this age of
like instant gratification, wehave everything at our
fingertips, we have microwaveovens, we have food delivered to
our doors, we have anything wepossibly want can be delivered
within a matter of hours to ourfront doorstep. You know, we can
(38:42):
basically do, we've never had, Idon't know if there's ever been
a time in the history of thisstage of humanity, where we've
had so much potential andopportunities to deliver
something to someone else orreceive something and so, but
the downside of that as we'vesort of got caught up into this
sort of concept of like, oh, Iwant to be famous now I expect
(39:02):
to make the money. Oh, it'slike, dude, yeah, the world
doesn't always operate oninstant microwave delivery.
There's got to be a process yougot to build, you got to break
you got to build you got tobuild. So I got to remind myself
that as well on a regular basis.
It's not It's me. I suffer fromlike, Wait, I didn't get that
contract last week. Like whenyou start worrying about it.
Anyway, I'm going off on atangent,
Dr. Leah OH (39:23):
I'll stop. No, no, that's really really helpful at
the same thing. I you know, mydad always said Leah, they call
it work for a reason. And that'swhat I lean into in those days
when it feels harder than theother days. Well, debo, thank
you so much for sharing yourtime, your expertise. This has
really been a blast. But moreimportantly, I know what's
(39:43):
really going to help listeners.
Deevo Tindall (39:45):
I appreciate the time thank you for having me on
as a guest I really loved it.
Dr. Leah OH (39:49):
All right, my friends. That wraps up our
conversation today. Until nexttime, you indicate with
intention and lead with purpose.
And looking forward to chattingwith you again soon. I'm the
communicative leader
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