From confidence, conviction, and connection to rehearsal, Jacqueline Farrington shares her wealth of communication expertise with us.
Jacqueline also draws from her recent book "The Non-Obvious Guide to Better Presentations: How to Present Like a Pro (Virtually or in Person)" to leave us with some concrete ideas for improving our communication and presentation game.
Until next time, communicate with intention and lead with purpose.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Leah OH (00:00):
Former TED X senior speaker, coach and presentations
(00:03):
expert Jacqueline Farringtonjoins us today on the
communicative leader. She hasover 20 years experience
inspiring transformation andinnovation among leaders and
their teams throughcommunication. She has also
recently published a book thenon obvious guide to better
presentations, how to presentlike a pro virtually or in
(00:24):
person. Today, she leaves uswith some really thoughtful
pragmatic tips to help improveour communication and our
presentation skills. Hello, andwelcome to the communicative
leader hosted by me Dr. LeahOmilion-Hodges. My friends call
me Dr. OH. I'm a Professor ofCommunication and a leadership
(00:44):
communication expert, and thecommunicative leader. We're
working to make your work lifewhat you want it to be.
Jacqueline, I'm so excited tohave you on the communicative
leader, and you've done so muchincredible work and
communications. And before wedive into this, can you give us
(01:04):
a little bit of background onyourself?
Jacqueline Farrington (01:06):
Thank you, Leah. It's a delight to be
here. And thank you for havingme on the show. I got my start.
Well, I'll go back before I gotmy start. I think as long as I
can remember, I was always verycurious about human beings, and
why people do the things thatthey do. And that actually led
(01:28):
me to pursue a master's intheater. And I'm a
professionally trained actor.
And I worked as a professionalactor for many years in New
York. And while I was doingthat, I got the opportunity to
teach at the Yale School ofDrama, and I taught there for
about 14 years. And while atYale, I was working with people
in the School of Management inthe law school, and discovered
(01:50):
not only that I loved teachingmore than acting because I, I
loved that lightbulb moment whensomebody discovers a an
exciting, life changing insight.
But I also loved working withnon actors, because the work
that we did was so powerful fornot just their life at work, but
(02:15):
also their personal life. So Idecided to go back to school,
got another Master's degree incommunications, and then left
Yale in 2003, to start mybusiness. And so today, I work
with leaders on the challengesthat they face around
leadership, change andcommunications.
Dr. Leah OH (02:38):
And I love that chat. I love so much of what you
said. And that one thing thatreally connects with me is that
when we work on ourcommunication, when we think
about that, certainly it helpsus at work. And usually that's
the primary goal. But like yousaid, it helps you personally in
navigating relationships withyour partner, with your family,
(03:00):
with kids with neighbors. Soit's really the gift that keeps
on giving. Yes,
Jacqueline Farrington (03:05):
and needed now more than ever in the
world.
Dr. Leah OH (03:10):
Exactly. And so a way that you've continued to
work on this expertise and shareyour knowledge is to create a
new book. So in this book, thenon obvious guide to better
presentations, how to presentlike a pro virtually or in
person, they love this, you yougive us these three C's of
(03:31):
presence, confidence,conviction, and connection. So
I'd like to ask you a fewquestions about how we can
improve in each area. So I'mgoing to start with confidence.
And I think this one, it's sohard, you know, I'm I'm a fellow
educator, and we want everyoneto have more confidence. But
it's really hard to consider howwe make that these tangible,
(03:55):
pragmatic ways. So we know thatit's crucial, we know that it
feels a little abstract. So whattypes of strategies or exercises
do you recommend for speakers toreally develop those those
confidence muscles?
Jacqueline Farrington (04:12):
Yeah, there are loads of tools and
strategies for building yourconfidence muscle, I'd say the
first and probably the mostimportant is to become aware of
your thoughts. And how do yourthoughts support you in the
moment? Or how do they hinderyou in the moment this is
(04:32):
something that peak athletes arevery aware of? Muhammad Ali is
one of the best examples of thatthe way that he managed his
thinking around an event waspretty extraordinary. And so
what I say to clients is, whenyou're preparing for a
presentation, focus on what youdo want to create, versus what
(04:55):
you do not want to create. Sooften have clients say to me
what What happens if I forgetwhat I'm saying if I just
completely go blank, or whathappens if my slides don't work?
And the more you think aboutthat, and think, oh my God, I
know I'm gonna go out there andI'm going to completely mess up
and I'm going to be a failureand on and on and on, the
(05:18):
greater chance you have apriming your brain to actually
create that behavior. But myhusband for many years was an
extreme sports tour guide. Andhe said to me that one of the
things they learned in theirtheir training was never to say
to a client don't step overthere. Because inevitably,
(05:40):
everyone would step over therewhere exactly where they didn't
want them to. So retrain youryour thoughts learn the power of
reframing. So for example, ifyou're thinking, Oh, my God, I'm
terrified, I'm going to go outthere, and I'm going to make a
big mistake and forget what I'msaying, Stop, reframe, say to
(06:01):
yourself, Okay, I'm prepared,I've done my homework. If I
forget what I'm saying, I have aplan. I have some phrases that
I've tucked in my back pocket,that I might say to the
audience, or maybe I'm justgoing to pause and take a breath
and let my brain come back,because it will come back. Or
(06:21):
maybe I'm even going to say,Hey, I forgotten what I'm
saying. I don't know what I'msaying right now. But you know
what, I'm going to move toanother section of my
presentation, and I'll come backwhen that thought returns to me,
because I know that audiencesappreciate and respect people
who are human who are humanbeings and make mistakes and
(06:45):
recover. So that's an example ofhow we can reframe our thoughts
in a very realistic way tosupport us rather than hinder
us.
Dr. Leah OH (06:56):
Yes, I love the end link. You're saying you love a
speaker who is human thatvulnerability and recognizing
that, you know, they're theyshare some similarities, because
a lot of times I think speakersappear to have the superhuman,
this charisma, this somethingthat we ourselves can cultivate.
But in those moments, it reallybegins to feel like something
(07:19):
that maybe with practice, ormaybe a whole bunch of practice
that we're actually capable of,to gosh, thank you, Jacqueline,
I really enjoyed all of thosesuggestions. Let's move on to
your second C connection. So weknow building and maintaining a
strong connection with youraudience. It's essential for an
impactful presentation. So whatdo you suggest how can we
(07:43):
establish this immediateconnection? And also keep our
audience engaged?
Jacqueline Farrington (07:49):
Yes, well, the first tool to being
connected with your audience isbeing present with your
audience. Rather than thinkingabout what am I saying next?
Where am I standing? How am Isaying what I'm saying, which
are all questions that should beanswered in rehearsal rather
than right there in the momenton the on the day, being present
(08:12):
in the room means being 100%focused on your audience,
feeling sensing their energy,sensing the way they're
responding to what you'resaying, and not checking out
mentally. So if you don'talready have some kind of a
mindfulness practice where youpractice, keeping your mind
(08:35):
present engaged in the moment inthe room, while you're there
speaking, then start practicingmindfulness, it just takes a few
minutes a day, so that you startto notice when your mind checks
out, and how can you then bringyourself back into the present
moment, it's also important tobuild moments into your
(08:57):
presentation where you'relistening. That might be if
you're giving a virtualpresentation that might be
running a poll, in a livepresentation, it might be asking
questions of your audience, oreven just building pauses in
your presentation, to pause andlisten, listen to how your
audiences is responding. Andthen the last thing I'd say is
(09:21):
to be curious, and culturallycompetent. Learn as much about
your audience as you can beforethe day what are their
preferences? What do they knowabout your topic? What do they
not know about your topic? Whatare their values, and it can be
helpful to give a cultural nodto their their customs, their
(09:41):
values, that might be speaking afew words of their language,
when you start yourpresentation, audiences actually
really appreciate that theyappreciate that effort for
wearing a color or somethingthat is culturally specific to
them, just giving that nod ofrespect to them. So those are
Some small ways that you canbuild that connection right off
(10:03):
the bat for that
Dr. Leah OH (10:05):
thoughtful response, Jacqueline. And one
thing that I never would haveconnected was mindfulness or
meditation and the ability to todeliver a better speech, or it'd
be more engaging and morepresent. That is certainly
something that I'm going to bepracticing more. And now I'd
like to ask you about that thirdC conviction. We know that this
(10:28):
is often connected with being apersuasive speaker. So what
techniques or approaches can weuse to convey our message with
conviction and influence ouraudience
Jacqueline Farrington (10:39):
when it comes to conviction? Finding
what in your presentationresonates with your values? Now,
this one is sometimes a toughone, because I often have
clients say to me, yeah, nothingresonates with my values, I just
have to give this presentation.
Maybe it's just a projectupdate. But taking a step back
and thinking about, Okay, why isthis project update important?
(11:04):
Why is it important to myaudience? Why do they need this
information? How am I helpingthem? How am I being of service
by giving them this information,that's a small way that you can
find a connection with your ownpersonal values in something as
seemingly mundane as a projectupdate, then also aiming for
(11:26):
helpful rather than good. Whenwe aim to be helpful to our
audience, we then switch thatframe, there's another reframe.
And we become our presence inthe room is about being of
service to our audience, ratherthan when we think about I've
(11:48):
got to be good, I've got to beperfect. I've got to succeed in
this presentation, all of ourattention goes on to ourselves,
not on our audience. And thatthen leads to lack of
conviction, lack of presence inthe room, so aimed to be helpful
and not good. And then finally,think about what is your bigger
(12:10):
purpose for being here today?
Is, is there a need that you'refulfilling a way that you are
being of service? What is thatpurpose that is larger than you?
It's not about you, it's aboutwhy you're here today. So
connecting with your wife,
Dr. Leah OH (12:29):
Jacqueline, I'd like us to return to connection.
And this is when we know thatbuilding connection, it also
requires a degree of confidenceis understanding our audience
and adapting our presentation totheir needs. How can we
effectively assess our audienceand tailor our messages even on
(12:50):
the spot to better meet theirspecific expectations? Yes,
well, knowing your presentation
Jacqueline Farrington (12:56):
helps a lot. Really internalizing your
your presentation slideshow hada survey that came out last
year. And they found thataudiences now are responding to
and expecting pre presentersspeakers to change their
presentation based on what theaudience needs in the moment. We
(13:19):
can't do that if we don't reallyknow our presentation. So the
analogy I like to use is like ahouse, think of your
presentation like a house. Andif it's your house, you know how
to get from the front door tothe master bedroom quickly. But
if you needed to get to themaster bedroom and enter through
(13:40):
the back door, or through thebathroom window, or the the side
door, regardless of which wayyou entered the house, you still
would be able to find a path tothe master bedroom. And that's
how you need to think of yourpresentation. Practice your
presentation starting in themiddle of it. But getting to the
(14:00):
end, practice starting at theend and working your way
backwards. So that you know thatpresentation from the back from
the front from the side. And youcan then switch change it up in
the moment if you need to. Andwe I mentioned earlier, being
curious about your audience.
take that a step further.
(14:22):
Research your audience, learnwhatever you can about them. If
it's an organization, ask if youcan visit the organization, go
to their website, speak topeople at the company, ask them
about their their culture, theirneeds, their desires, their
their goals, their their vision.
And so learning as much aboutyour audience as you can, can
(14:43):
really help build thatconnection. And then the other
thing I'd say is practiceimprovisation. Take a class.
They're really fun. Yeah, theycan be a little scary. But
improvisation not only teachesyou to pivot In the moment and
adapt in the moment, but it alsoteaches you to be present with
other people, and to listen verycarefully. So take an
(15:07):
improvisation class, you can doit online, or, or practice
improvisation by yourself, youcan do that just by free
association. If you spotsomething in your office, I've
got a pair of glasses here. Soif I spot a pair of glasses come
up with three uses for thoseglasses that have nothing to do
(15:28):
with what they're really usedfor glasses, a vase for flowers,
I can make a really cool flowerarrangement, I could use these
two as a microphone to resonatemy voice amplify my voice, yes.
Okay, they're not really usesfor the glasses. But it helps
you build that improvisationmuscle and just go with whatever
(15:50):
comes into your mind.
Dr. Leah OH (15:53):
So it's a really neat aspect of your background
in theater and being able tobring in these techniques that
again, in a traditionalcommunication program, a
business program and ExecutiveMBA, that we're not going to
traditionally encounter. Sothat's a really helpful thing
for us to consider. And, youknow, in that same ballpark,
(16:17):
another thing that I've beenthinking about in getting ready
to chat with you and publicspeaking, a lot of times we
don't think about body languageor nonverbal communication until
we're in the moment. So can youtalk to us a little bit about
the role body language andnonverbals, you know, play in
(16:37):
presentations, and maybe somestrategies to that we can be
mindful of.
Jacqueline Farrington (16:42):
Yes, body language, nonverbal
communication. And I would addto that vocal communication as
well, they do go hand in hand.
They're important because weconvey emotional intelligence or
lack of emotional intelligence,through our body language, and
our voice. In humancommunication. There are always
(17:04):
two conversations going on, atany given moment, conversation,
one are the words that we speakconversation, two is the intent,
the emotion, the meaning, behindthose words, and that comes from
the nonverbal communication andthe voice. So for example, if I
say to you, can you come in myoffice? I want to speak to you,
(17:28):
I could say, can you come in myoffice, I want to speak to you.
Or I could say, can you? Can youcome into my, my office, I want
to speak to you or I could say,can you come into my office, I
want to speak to you, the wordsare exactly the same, but I've
changed them with my bodylanguage and my voice. So we
convey emotional intelligencethrough those mechanisms. And a
(17:51):
way to develop them to grow isto first think about awareness.
You can't change anything, youcan't develop anything until
you're first aware of how you'recurrently doing it. So to build
that awareness, record yourself,do a body language and a voice
(18:13):
audit. Record yourself, watchyourself, notice what's working,
but also what's not working whatyou want to change, it's
important to also notice what'sworking, because you want to
build on that. Ask people forfeedback. Ask them to describe
the presence you create in theroom and why ask them to
describe your voice ask them todescribe your body language. And
(18:37):
so once you then build thatawareness, it becomes easier to
identify what you want to changeand then start to slowly
incorporate changes into how youuse body language and voice have
Dr. Leah OH (18:53):
another element on the heels of their question
about body language and voicerehearsal. Right? I think this
is one that a lot of times wedon't talk about enough. So what
are some things we should bemindful of before we go in to
give that presentation?
Jacqueline Farrington (19:10):
I love talking about rehearsal.
Rehearsal is so important. Andit's it's something that I see
people overlook a lot. I'll seeleaders who have a
communications team, they'llspend weeks if not months,
perfecting the content, but thenthey won't spend any time or
barely any time looking at howhow they deliver it and and both
(19:35):
of those things are important incommunication. So the first
thing with rehearsal is to thinkabout internalizing rather than
memorizing. By that I mean thatmemorizing is about rote
memorization. It's like wememorize a telephone number to
go to the phone and just spitout that that number at the
phone and make the call and moveon. And that is then in our
(20:00):
working memory, it's the memorythat we need right now in the
moment to function.
Internalizing is aboutcommitting things to long term
memory. That's the part of ourbrain that we use to store
information like driving a carskiing, where we don't have to
even think about it, it justbecomes a habit, it's so
ingrained in us that we don'thave to think about it. And
(20:23):
that's where you want yourpresentation to be. By the time
you walk out for performance. Ifon the day of performance,
you're having to think about,where am I standing? How am I
using my gestures? How am Idelivering this with my voice,
what comes next in mypresentation, all those
questions that creates cognitiveoverload on the day, it crowds
(20:46):
out any chance we have of beingpresent with our audience. So
work towards internalizing, andthe way that we do that is stand
up, get up on your feet, trythings out. You'll make
mistakes, go back, try it again,you'll find things that you
(21:08):
don't like things that you do,like, the more you can speak
aloud, move while you'respeaking, standing, the more
you'll start to internalize andreally thinking about what's the
emotion I'm conveying here,what's my intent here. But But
then it's also important withinrehearsal, to build stress and
failure into your rehearsal. Andagain, this is something that
(21:32):
that peak performing athletesknow, if you build stress. And
you can do that very easilypresenting to an audience, a
mock audience, or even yourfamily, turn the video camera
on, you would be surprised howmuch stress that correct can
create just knowing that thevideo camera is on, or try going
through your talk as fast as youcan, without missing any moment
(21:54):
without missing any key conceptthat you need to communicate.
Usually, that will make you tripup. And so when you trip up,
then rather than stopping, youhave to work your way through
it, you have to handle it.
(22:15):
Getting off script. So gettinggetting your notes out of
eyesight as early as possible,it's painful, but it really does
work to teach your brain tomanage both stress and failure
on the day. And becauseperformances and presentations
are high stakes moments. So youreally want to teach your brain
(22:38):
to manage stress and failure onthe day. And you do that by
incorporating it into yourrehearsal. One
Dr. Leah OH (22:46):
thing I was struck in your responses, if it's so
helpful is the connection topublic speaking and this
delivery and in sports, right,that performance. And thinking
of that I think helps to bring alot of folks peace who feel
really nervous, really anxiousabout this public delivery.
(23:09):
Because it'd be the same feelingif you're out there in the
middle of a soccer game and hada shoot a penalty kick or it's
your time to shoot free throws,right? We know that stress
inducing. So I think that cangive our listeners some freedom
and recognizing maybe somevalidation in that you're not
alone. This is challenging. SoJacqueline, another thing I
(23:30):
found myself thinking about washow do we kind of strike that
balance between detail anddepth, but also clarity and
brevity? Because again, if wetoo much information, we can
start to lose those main points,too little information, and
we're left with gaps or holes inthe argument or ideas presented.
(23:53):
So again, how do we, you know,have a succinct message, a one
that is clear and connects withour audience.
Jacqueline Farrington (24:02):
When it comes to brevity, start first
with the end in mind. By that Imean that when your audience
walks out at the end of yourpresentation, what is the one
key idea you want them to get,put it into one sentence. And
then once you've written thatone sentence, take that sentence
down to seven words like anewspaper headline, so that you
(24:25):
distill that one key idea. Andthen as you're building your
presentation, make sure thatevery content, every piece of
content you put in there speaksto that one key idea. If it
doesn't, then eliminate it. Sobegin with the end in mind, also
speak to the gap. And by thegap. I mean, the gap between
(24:49):
what your audience knows aboutthis topic and what they don't
know. And that's that gap thatyou're speaking to. The number
one complaint I get from seniorexecutives when someone were to
Near is presenting to them isthat they put way too much
information in there. And so youdon't want to be giving, for
example, that the history ofthis topic, if they already know
(25:12):
the history of the topic, sospeak to the knowledge gap. And
then the other thing is topractice going from key idea to
key idea. It's almost likeyou're writing a piece of poetry
with your presentation. Soyou're just going from key idea
to key idea, eliminating anyextraneous words, and that helps
(25:35):
you then get to the spine ofyour presentation.
Dr. Leah OH (25:38):
Begin with the end in mind, really thoughtful
advice. And again, verytangible, something that we can
all start to incorporate intoour practice. So Jacqueline, my
next question really comes froma leadership standpoint, again,
leadership communicationscholar, I tend to draw things
back to leading and was thinkingabout authentic leadership,
(26:02):
because we know what tends to bethe most effective and most
prized, because what we see iswhat we get, right? This leaders
leaning into who they arecapitalizing on their strengths,
just embracing theiridiosyncrasies. So to that end,
we know authenticity is reallyimportant. It's an essential
aspect of communication. But forsome, maybe even for many, it
(26:25):
can be really challenging tofeel like your authentic self
when you're presenting. So howcan speakers tap into their
authenticity and be theirgenuine selves while delivering
a presentation?
Jacqueline Farrington (26:40):
Yes, yeah, it's the authentic
leadership is, is, has been formany years, a hot topic. And
years ago, I used to work withclients on something called
executive presence. And that's ahot topic, it's a buzzword than
we hear around lately. And I'veswitched in the past few years,
(27:03):
instead to talking aboutstrategic presence. executive
presence tends to be verylimited, and exclusionary, it's
this idea of, if I can justachieve this one thing that is
usually set by the leadership atthe top, if I can achieve this
kind of cookie cutter idea ofleadership, then I will make it
(27:25):
and because of that it can beexclusionary, because it doesn't
recognize other cultures, itdoesn't recognize other values,
other ways of doing things.
Strategic presence is abouttapping into your multiple
identities, your roles that youplay in life, your lived
(27:47):
experiences and your values, toadapt how you communicate in the
moment, so that you meet theaudience halfway, and help them
hear your message in thismoment. And so we do that, by
really understanding ourselvesunderstanding all of our lived
(28:08):
experiences, I ask clients tojust list this out, think about
all the experiences you'veplayed in life, all the roles
that you play, all of youridentities, and the values that
each of those roles, highlightsthat that you bring to those
roles. And then as you go into acrucial communications
(28:32):
situation, asking yourself, okayfor this audience, to hear this
message, how do I need to showup in this moment? And what part
of myself do I need to amplify,to meet my audience halfway? I
think that's much more authenticbecause it allows leaders to
(28:53):
bring their whole selves towork. Rather than this. One idea
of this is executive presence.
We are more complex than that ashuman beings. And I think it's
important to embrace thatcomplexity rather than limit
ourselves to a cookie cutteridea of executive presence.
Dr. Leah OH (29:16):
And your response is a really nice reminder of how
far we've come in terms of beingour authentic selves, whether
we're at work or at home or atthe grocery store. So
Jacqueline, I have a couple morequestions for you. And before we
kind of move into these tips forleaders, I'd like to talk about
(29:36):
technology. We know that haschanged how we deliver
presentations, and we know thatremote presentations are
becoming more and more common.
So what advice do you have forspeakers when they're delivering
presentations using differentdigital platforms?
Jacqueline Farrington (29:54):
Well run a tech check every time always
run that check, check out Have aplan in place for when the
technology goes wrong becausechances are you will. But get a
good camera and a microphone.
Don't use the microphone and thecamera in your laptop, they're
not very high quality, and thatcan distance you from your
audience. And then really themost important thing around
(30:18):
technology is to make sure thattechnology is used to build
connection. Rather than alienateyour audience. I was part of an
audience the other day, wherethe speaker just kept running
poll after poll after poll, itwas kind of like he decided to
rely on polls to createconnections with his audience.
(30:38):
And it had the opposite effect,it created distance with the
speaker. So be judicious aboutthings like polls, they can be a
great way to connect with youraudience. But I find they're
most effective when you offer anopportunity for the group to
reflect on the outcome of thepoll, either in chat or coming
(31:01):
off of their mute on theirmicrophone and speaking live. So
that you build that reflectionor or maybe it's giving them an
opportunity to go into breakoutgroups and talk about, so make
sure that you you judiciouslymix up your use of technology
with live communication at thesame time.
Dr. Leah OH (31:26):
Jacqueline, I have two final questions for you. And
the communicative leader. We'dlike to leave listeners with
pragmatic leadership orcommunication tips, advice,
challenges to that and whatadvice do you have for our
titled leaders out there?
Jacqueline Farrington (31:42):
I think the most important thing for
leaders is to always be mindfulof the connection between
leadership and communication.
You cannot be an effectiveleader if you're not an
effective communicator. And alsobe aware of not always
delegating 100%, yourcommunication to your your comms
(32:04):
teams, your communicationsteams, have a role in that,
decide and be clear on how youneed to show up as a leader and
as a communicator and play anactive role in that with your
communications teams is
Dr. Leah OH (32:23):
You are right, Jacqueline. We cannot be an
effective leader withouteffective communication. If
we're not a good communicator, astrong communicator, we might
have some wins as a leader, butthey're likely to be pretty
short lived when we can'tdevelop and maintain these
relationships or communicate aclear vision. So I really
appreciate that response. And myfinal question for you, what do
(32:48):
you want to leave all employeeswith these employees all ranks
across all industries? So whatis the advice tip or challenge
related to leadership orcommunication for these friends?
Jacqueline Farrington (33:01):
Prepare, prepare prepare. For for
employees, more junior people,you cannot be prepared enough
preparation sets you free. Itallows you to pivot in the
moment it allows you to play.
When you don't have to thinkabout all those questions you
(33:22):
answer in preparation. You thenfree up your brain, you don't
create cognitive overload ifyou're having to figure it all
out on the day. So I can'tstress that enough. And then I
think to both employees andleaders, the last thing I'd
leave you with is commit tobeing a lifelong student of
communications, we can all bebetter communicators, and it is
(33:47):
a lifelong learning. We willstop learning the day we die. So
be open, be curious, becommitted to learning.
Dr. Leah OH (33:58):
Gosh, isn't that the truth? Oh, Jacqueline, thank
you. Again, I really haveenjoyed our conversation. You
have left me with so many tips.
And again, I have a PhD incommunication, folks. So the
expertise that Jacqueline hascultivated is really, really
incredible. And again, thepragmatics are things that we
can all start to work on, tofeel like a stronger
(34:22):
communicator to make thoseconnections with our audience,
and to speak in a way thatinfluences the audience in the
way in which we attend. Soagain, thank you for joining us
on the communicative leader.
It's been a pleasure. Alright,my friends, that wraps up our
conversation today. Until nexttime, communicate with intention
(34:46):
and lead with purpose. Lookingforward to chatting with you
again soon. I'm thecommunicative leader.
Former TED X senior speaker, coach and presentations
(00:03):
expert Jacqueline Farringtonjoins us today on the
communicative leader. She hasover 20 years experience
inspiring transformation andinnovation among leaders and
their teams throughcommunication. She has also
recently published a book thenon obvious guide to better
presentations, how to presentlike a pro virtually or in
(00:24):
person. Today, she leaves uswith some really thoughtful
pragmatic tips to help improveour communication and our
presentation skills. Hello, andwelcome to the communicative
leader hosted by me Dr. LeahOmilion-Hodges. My friends call
me Dr. OH. I'm a Professor ofCommunication and a leadership
(00:44):
communication expert, and thecommunicative leader. We're
working to make your work lifewhat you want it to be.
Jacqueline, I'm so excited tohave you on the communicative
leader, and you've done so muchincredible work and
communications. And before wedive into this, can you give us
(01:04):
a little bit of background onyourself?
Jacqueline Farrington (01:06):
Thank you, Leah. It's a delight to be
here. And thank you for havingme on the show. I got my start.
Well, I'll go back before I gotmy start. I think as long as I
can remember, I was always verycurious about human beings, and
why people do the things thatthey do. And that actually led
(01:28):
me to pursue a master's intheater. And I'm a
professionally trained actor.
And I worked as a professionalactor for many years in New
York. And while I was doingthat, I got the opportunity to
teach at the Yale School ofDrama, and I taught there for
about 14 years. And while atYale, I was working with people
in the School of Management inthe law school, and discovered
(01:50):
not only that I loved teachingmore than acting because I, I
loved that lightbulb moment whensomebody discovers a an
exciting, life changing insight.
But I also loved working withnon actors, because the work
that we did was so powerful fornot just their life at work, but
(02:15):
also their personal life. So Idecided to go back to school,
got another Master's degree incommunications, and then left
Yale in 2003, to start mybusiness. And so today, I work
with leaders on the challengesthat they face around
leadership, change andcommunications.
Dr. Leah OH (02:38):
And I love that chat. I love so much of what you
said. And that one thing thatreally connects with me is that
when we work on ourcommunication, when we think
about that, certainly it helpsus at work. And usually that's
the primary goal. But like yousaid, it helps you personally in
navigating relationships withyour partner, with your family,
(03:00):
with kids with neighbors. Soit's really the gift that keeps
on giving. Yes,
Jacqueline Farrington (03:05):
and needed now more than ever in the
world.
Dr. Leah OH (03:10):
Exactly. And so a way that you've continued to
work on this expertise and shareyour knowledge is to create a
new book. So in this book, thenon obvious guide to better
presentations, how to presentlike a pro virtually or in
person, they love this, you yougive us these three C's of
(03:31):
presence, confidence,conviction, and connection. So
I'd like to ask you a fewquestions about how we can
improve in each area. So I'mgoing to start with confidence.
And I think this one, it's sohard, you know, I'm I'm a fellow
educator, and we want everyoneto have more confidence. But
it's really hard to consider howwe make that these tangible,
(03:55):
pragmatic ways. So we know thatit's crucial, we know that it
feels a little abstract. So whattypes of strategies or exercises
do you recommend for speakers toreally develop those those
confidence muscles?
Jacqueline Farrington (04:12):
Yeah, there are loads of tools and
strategies for building yourconfidence muscle, I'd say the
first and probably the mostimportant is to become aware of
your thoughts. And how do yourthoughts support you in the
moment? Or how do they hinderyou in the moment this is
(04:32):
something that peak athletes arevery aware of? Muhammad Ali is
one of the best examples of thatthe way that he managed his
thinking around an event waspretty extraordinary. And so
what I say to clients is, whenyou're preparing for a
presentation, focus on what youdo want to create, versus what
(04:55):
you do not want to create. Sooften have clients say to me
what What happens if I forgetwhat I'm saying if I just
completely go blank, or whathappens if my slides don't work?
And the more you think aboutthat, and think, oh my God, I
know I'm gonna go out there andI'm going to completely mess up
and I'm going to be a failureand on and on and on, the
(05:18):
greater chance you have apriming your brain to actually
create that behavior. But myhusband for many years was an
extreme sports tour guide. Andhe said to me that one of the
things they learned in theirtheir training was never to say
to a client don't step overthere. Because inevitably,
(05:40):
everyone would step over therewhere exactly where they didn't
want them to. So retrain youryour thoughts learn the power of
reframing. So for example, ifyou're thinking, Oh, my God, I'm
terrified, I'm going to go outthere, and I'm going to make a
big mistake and forget what I'msaying, Stop, reframe, say to
(06:01):
yourself, Okay, I'm prepared,I've done my homework. If I
forget what I'm saying, I have aplan. I have some phrases that
I've tucked in my back pocket,that I might say to the
audience, or maybe I'm justgoing to pause and take a breath
and let my brain come back,because it will come back. Or
(06:21):
maybe I'm even going to say,Hey, I forgotten what I'm
saying. I don't know what I'msaying right now. But you know
what, I'm going to move toanother section of my
presentation, and I'll come backwhen that thought returns to me,
because I know that audiencesappreciate and respect people
who are human who are humanbeings and make mistakes and
(06:45):
recover. So that's an example ofhow we can reframe our thoughts
in a very realistic way tosupport us rather than hinder
us.
Dr. Leah OH (06:56):
Yes, I love the end link. You're saying you love a
speaker who is human thatvulnerability and recognizing
that, you know, they're theyshare some similarities, because
a lot of times I think speakersappear to have the superhuman,
this charisma, this somethingthat we ourselves can cultivate.
But in those moments, it reallybegins to feel like something
(07:19):
that maybe with practice, ormaybe a whole bunch of practice
that we're actually capable of,to gosh, thank you, Jacqueline,
I really enjoyed all of thosesuggestions. Let's move on to
your second C connection. So weknow building and maintaining a
strong connection with youraudience. It's essential for an
impactful presentation. So whatdo you suggest how can we
(07:43):
establish this immediateconnection? And also keep our
audience engaged?
Jacqueline Farrington (07:49):
Yes, well, the first tool to being
connected with your audience isbeing present with your
audience. Rather than thinkingabout what am I saying next?
Where am I standing? How am Isaying what I'm saying, which
are all questions that should beanswered in rehearsal rather
than right there in the momenton the on the day, being present
(08:12):
in the room means being 100%focused on your audience,
feeling sensing their energy,sensing the way they're
responding to what you'resaying, and not checking out
mentally. So if you don'talready have some kind of a
mindfulness practice where youpractice, keeping your mind
(08:35):
present engaged in the moment inthe room, while you're there
speaking, then start practicingmindfulness, it just takes a few
minutes a day, so that you startto notice when your mind checks
out, and how can you then bringyourself back into the present
moment, it's also important tobuild moments into your
(08:57):
presentation where you'relistening. That might be if
you're giving a virtualpresentation that might be
running a poll, in a livepresentation, it might be asking
questions of your audience, oreven just building pauses in
your presentation, to pause andlisten, listen to how your
audiences is responding. Andthen the last thing I'd say is
(09:21):
to be curious, and culturallycompetent. Learn as much about
your audience as you can beforethe day what are their
preferences? What do they knowabout your topic? What do they
not know about your topic? Whatare their values, and it can be
helpful to give a cultural nodto their their customs, their
(09:41):
values, that might be speaking afew words of their language,
when you start yourpresentation, audiences actually
really appreciate that theyappreciate that effort for
wearing a color or somethingthat is culturally specific to
them, just giving that nod ofrespect to them. So those are
Some small ways that you canbuild that connection right off
(10:03):
the bat for that
Dr. Leah OH (10:05):
thoughtful response, Jacqueline. And one
thing that I never would haveconnected was mindfulness or
meditation and the ability to todeliver a better speech, or it'd
be more engaging and morepresent. That is certainly
something that I'm going to bepracticing more. And now I'd
like to ask you about that thirdC conviction. We know that this
(10:28):
is often connected with being apersuasive speaker. So what
techniques or approaches can weuse to convey our message with
conviction and influence ouraudience
Jacqueline Farrington (10:39):
when it comes to conviction? Finding
what in your presentationresonates with your values? Now,
this one is sometimes a toughone, because I often have
clients say to me, yeah, nothingresonates with my values, I just
have to give this presentation.
Maybe it's just a projectupdate. But taking a step back
and thinking about, Okay, why isthis project update important?
(11:04):
Why is it important to myaudience? Why do they need this
information? How am I helpingthem? How am I being of service
by giving them this information,that's a small way that you can
find a connection with your ownpersonal values in something as
seemingly mundane as a projectupdate, then also aiming for
(11:26):
helpful rather than good. Whenwe aim to be helpful to our
audience, we then switch thatframe, there's another reframe.
And we become our presence inthe room is about being of
service to our audience, ratherthan when we think about I've
(11:48):
got to be good, I've got to beperfect. I've got to succeed in
this presentation, all of ourattention goes on to ourselves,
not on our audience. And thatthen leads to lack of
conviction, lack of presence inthe room, so aimed to be helpful
and not good. And then finally,think about what is your bigger
(12:10):
purpose for being here today?
Is, is there a need that you'refulfilling a way that you are
being of service? What is thatpurpose that is larger than you?
It's not about you, it's aboutwhy you're here today. So
connecting with your wife,
Dr. Leah OH (12:29):
Jacqueline, I'd like us to return to connection.
And this is when we know thatbuilding connection, it also
requires a degree of confidenceis understanding our audience
and adapting our presentation totheir needs. How can we
effectively assess our audienceand tailor our messages even on
(12:50):
the spot to better meet theirspecific expectations? Yes,
well, knowing your presentation
Jacqueline Farrington (12:56):
helps a lot. Really internalizing your
your presentation slideshow hada survey that came out last
year. And they found thataudiences now are responding to
and expecting pre presentersspeakers to change their
presentation based on what theaudience needs in the moment. We
(13:19):
can't do that if we don't reallyknow our presentation. So the
analogy I like to use is like ahouse, think of your
presentation like a house. Andif it's your house, you know how
to get from the front door tothe master bedroom quickly. But
if you needed to get to themaster bedroom and enter through
(13:40):
the back door, or through thebathroom window, or the the side
door, regardless of which wayyou entered the house, you still
would be able to find a path tothe master bedroom. And that's
how you need to think of yourpresentation. Practice your
presentation starting in themiddle of it. But getting to the
(14:00):
end, practice starting at theend and working your way
backwards. So that you know thatpresentation from the back from
the front from the side. And youcan then switch change it up in
the moment if you need to. Andwe I mentioned earlier, being
curious about your audience.
take that a step further.
(14:22):
Research your audience, learnwhatever you can about them. If
it's an organization, ask if youcan visit the organization, go
to their website, speak topeople at the company, ask them
about their their culture, theirneeds, their desires, their
their goals, their their vision.
And so learning as much aboutyour audience as you can, can
(14:43):
really help build thatconnection. And then the other
thing I'd say is practiceimprovisation. Take a class.
They're really fun. Yeah, theycan be a little scary. But
improvisation not only teachesyou to pivot In the moment and
adapt in the moment, but it alsoteaches you to be present with
other people, and to listen verycarefully. So take an
(15:07):
improvisation class, you can doit online, or, or practice
improvisation by yourself, youcan do that just by free
association. If you spotsomething in your office, I've
got a pair of glasses here. Soif I spot a pair of glasses come
up with three uses for thoseglasses that have nothing to do
(15:28):
with what they're really usedfor glasses, a vase for flowers,
I can make a really cool flowerarrangement, I could use these
two as a microphone to resonatemy voice amplify my voice, yes.
Okay, they're not really usesfor the glasses. But it helps
you build that improvisationmuscle and just go with whatever
(15:50):
comes into your mind.
Dr. Leah OH (15:53):
So it's a really neat aspect of your background
in theater and being able tobring in these techniques that
again, in a traditionalcommunication program, a
business program and ExecutiveMBA, that we're not going to
traditionally encounter. Sothat's a really helpful thing
for us to consider. And, youknow, in that same ballpark,
(16:17):
another thing that I've beenthinking about in getting ready
to chat with you and publicspeaking, a lot of times we
don't think about body languageor nonverbal communication until
we're in the moment. So can youtalk to us a little bit about
the role body language andnonverbals, you know, play in
(16:37):
presentations, and maybe somestrategies to that we can be
mindful of.
Jacqueline Farrington (16:42):
Yes, body language, nonverbal
communication. And I would addto that vocal communication as
well, they do go hand in hand.
They're important because weconvey emotional intelligence or
lack of emotional intelligence,through our body language, and
our voice. In humancommunication. There are always
(17:04):
two conversations going on, atany given moment, conversation,
one are the words that we speakconversation, two is the intent,
the emotion, the meaning, behindthose words, and that comes from
the nonverbal communication andthe voice. So for example, if I
say to you, can you come in myoffice? I want to speak to you,
(17:28):
I could say, can you come in myoffice, I want to speak to you.
Or I could say, can you? Can youcome into my, my office, I want
to speak to you or I could say,can you come into my office, I
want to speak to you, the wordsare exactly the same, but I've
changed them with my bodylanguage and my voice. So we
convey emotional intelligencethrough those mechanisms. And a
(17:51):
way to develop them to grow isto first think about awareness.
You can't change anything, youcan't develop anything until
you're first aware of how you'recurrently doing it. So to build
that awareness, record yourself,do a body language and a voice
(18:13):
audit. Record yourself, watchyourself, notice what's working,
but also what's not working whatyou want to change, it's
important to also notice what'sworking, because you want to
build on that. Ask people forfeedback. Ask them to describe
the presence you create in theroom and why ask them to
describe your voice ask them todescribe your body language. And
(18:37):
so once you then build thatawareness, it becomes easier to
identify what you want to changeand then start to slowly
incorporate changes into how youuse body language and voice have
Dr. Leah OH (18:53):
another element on the heels of their question
about body language and voicerehearsal. Right? I think this
is one that a lot of times wedon't talk about enough. So what
are some things we should bemindful of before we go in to
give that presentation?
Jacqueline Farrington (19:10):
I love talking about rehearsal.
Rehearsal is so important. Andit's it's something that I see
people overlook a lot. I'll seeleaders who have a
communications team, they'llspend weeks if not months,
perfecting the content, but thenthey won't spend any time or
barely any time looking at howhow they deliver it and and both
(19:35):
of those things are important incommunication. So the first
thing with rehearsal is to thinkabout internalizing rather than
memorizing. By that I mean thatmemorizing is about rote
memorization. It's like wememorize a telephone number to
go to the phone and just spitout that that number at the
phone and make the call and moveon. And that is then in our
(20:00):
working memory, it's the memorythat we need right now in the
moment to function.
Internalizing is aboutcommitting things to long term
memory. That's the part of ourbrain that we use to store
information like driving a carskiing, where we don't have to
even think about it, it justbecomes a habit, it's so
ingrained in us that we don'thave to think about it. And
(20:23):
that's where you want yourpresentation to be. By the time
you walk out for performance. Ifon the day of performance,
you're having to think about,where am I standing? How am I
using my gestures? How am Idelivering this with my voice,
what comes next in mypresentation, all those
questions that creates cognitiveoverload on the day, it crowds
(20:46):
out any chance we have of beingpresent with our audience. So
work towards internalizing, andthe way that we do that is stand
up, get up on your feet, trythings out. You'll make
mistakes, go back, try it again,you'll find things that you
(21:08):
don't like things that you do,like, the more you can speak
aloud, move while you'respeaking, standing, the more
you'll start to internalize andreally thinking about what's the
emotion I'm conveying here,what's my intent here. But But
then it's also important withinrehearsal, to build stress and
failure into your rehearsal. Andagain, this is something that
(21:32):
that peak performing athletesknow, if you build stress. And
you can do that very easilypresenting to an audience, a
mock audience, or even yourfamily, turn the video camera
on, you would be surprised howmuch stress that correct can
create just knowing that thevideo camera is on, or try going
through your talk as fast as youcan, without missing any moment
(21:54):
without missing any key conceptthat you need to communicate.
Usually, that will make you tripup. And so when you trip up,
then rather than stopping, youhave to work your way through
it, you have to handle it.
(22:15):
Getting off script. So gettinggetting your notes out of
eyesight as early as possible,it's painful, but it really does
work to teach your brain tomanage both stress and failure
on the day. And becauseperformances and presentations
are high stakes moments. So youreally want to teach your brain
(22:38):
to manage stress and failure onthe day. And you do that by
incorporating it into yourrehearsal. One
Dr. Leah OH (22:46):
thing I was struck in your responses, if it's so
helpful is the connection topublic speaking and this
delivery and in sports, right,that performance. And thinking
of that I think helps to bring alot of folks peace who feel
really nervous, really anxiousabout this public delivery.
(23:09):
Because it'd be the same feelingif you're out there in the
middle of a soccer game and hada shoot a penalty kick or it's
your time to shoot free throws,right? We know that stress
inducing. So I think that cangive our listeners some freedom
and recognizing maybe somevalidation in that you're not
alone. This is challenging. SoJacqueline, another thing I
(23:30):
found myself thinking about washow do we kind of strike that
balance between detail anddepth, but also clarity and
brevity? Because again, if wetoo much information, we can
start to lose those main points,too little information, and
we're left with gaps or holes inthe argument or ideas presented.
(23:53):
So again, how do we, you know,have a succinct message, a one
that is clear and connects withour audience.
Jacqueline Farrington (24:02):
When it comes to brevity, start first
with the end in mind. By that Imean that when your audience
walks out at the end of yourpresentation, what is the one
key idea you want them to get,put it into one sentence. And
then once you've written thatone sentence, take that sentence
down to seven words like anewspaper headline, so that you
(24:25):
distill that one key idea. Andthen as you're building your
presentation, make sure thatevery content, every piece of
content you put in there speaksto that one key idea. If it
doesn't, then eliminate it. Sobegin with the end in mind, also
speak to the gap. And by thegap. I mean, the gap between
(24:49):
what your audience knows aboutthis topic and what they don't
know. And that's that gap thatyou're speaking to. The number
one complaint I get from seniorexecutives when someone were to
Near is presenting to them isthat they put way too much
information in there. And so youdon't want to be giving, for
example, that the history ofthis topic, if they already know
(25:12):
the history of the topic, sospeak to the knowledge gap. And
then the other thing is topractice going from key idea to
key idea. It's almost likeyou're writing a piece of poetry
with your presentation. Soyou're just going from key idea
to key idea, eliminating anyextraneous words, and that helps
(25:35):
you then get to the spine ofyour presentation.
Dr. Leah OH (25:38):
Begin with the end in mind, really thoughtful
advice. And again, verytangible, something that we can
all start to incorporate intoour practice. So Jacqueline, my
next question really comes froma leadership standpoint, again,
leadership communicationscholar, I tend to draw things
back to leading and was thinkingabout authentic leadership,
(26:02):
because we know what tends to bethe most effective and most
prized, because what we see iswhat we get, right? This leaders
leaning into who they arecapitalizing on their strengths,
just embracing theiridiosyncrasies. So to that end,
we know authenticity is reallyimportant. It's an essential
aspect of communication. But forsome, maybe even for many, it
(26:25):
can be really challenging tofeel like your authentic self
when you're presenting. So howcan speakers tap into their
authenticity and be theirgenuine selves while delivering
a presentation?
Jacqueline Farrington (26:40):
Yes, yeah, it's the authentic
leadership is, is, has been formany years, a hot topic. And
years ago, I used to work withclients on something called
executive presence. And that's ahot topic, it's a buzzword than
we hear around lately. And I'veswitched in the past few years,
(27:03):
instead to talking aboutstrategic presence. executive
presence tends to be verylimited, and exclusionary, it's
this idea of, if I can justachieve this one thing that is
usually set by the leadership atthe top, if I can achieve this
kind of cookie cutter idea ofleadership, then I will make it
(27:25):
and because of that it can beexclusionary, because it doesn't
recognize other cultures, itdoesn't recognize other values,
other ways of doing things.
Strategic presence is abouttapping into your multiple
identities, your roles that youplay in life, your lived
(27:47):
experiences and your values, toadapt how you communicate in the
moment, so that you meet theaudience halfway, and help them
hear your message in thismoment. And so we do that, by
really understanding ourselvesunderstanding all of our lived
(28:08):
experiences, I ask clients tojust list this out, think about
all the experiences you'veplayed in life, all the roles
that you play, all of youridentities, and the values that
each of those roles, highlightsthat that you bring to those
roles. And then as you go into acrucial communications
(28:32):
situation, asking yourself, okayfor this audience, to hear this
message, how do I need to showup in this moment? And what part
of myself do I need to amplify,to meet my audience halfway? I
think that's much more authenticbecause it allows leaders to
(28:53):
bring their whole selves towork. Rather than this. One idea
of this is executive presence.
We are more complex than that ashuman beings. And I think it's
important to embrace thatcomplexity rather than limit
ourselves to a cookie cutteridea of executive presence.
Dr. Leah OH (29:16):
And your response is a really nice reminder of how
far we've come in terms of beingour authentic selves, whether
we're at work or at home or atthe grocery store. So
Jacqueline, I have a couple morequestions for you. And before we
kind of move into these tips forleaders, I'd like to talk about
(29:36):
technology. We know that haschanged how we deliver
presentations, and we know thatremote presentations are
becoming more and more common.
So what advice do you have forspeakers when they're delivering
presentations using differentdigital platforms?
Jacqueline Farrington (29:54):
Well run a tech check every time always
run that check, check out Have aplan in place for when the
technology goes wrong becausechances are you will. But get a
good camera and a microphone.
Don't use the microphone and thecamera in your laptop, they're
not very high quality, and thatcan distance you from your
audience. And then really themost important thing around
(30:18):
technology is to make sure thattechnology is used to build
connection. Rather than alienateyour audience. I was part of an
audience the other day, wherethe speaker just kept running
poll after poll after poll, itwas kind of like he decided to
rely on polls to createconnections with his audience.
(30:38):
And it had the opposite effect,it created distance with the
speaker. So be judicious aboutthings like polls, they can be a
great way to connect with youraudience. But I find they're
most effective when you offer anopportunity for the group to
reflect on the outcome of thepoll, either in chat or coming
(31:01):
off of their mute on theirmicrophone and speaking live. So
that you build that reflectionor or maybe it's giving them an
opportunity to go into breakoutgroups and talk about, so make
sure that you you judiciouslymix up your use of technology
with live communication at thesame time.
Dr. Leah OH (31:26):
Jacqueline, I have two final questions for you. And
the communicative leader. We'dlike to leave listeners with
pragmatic leadership orcommunication tips, advice,
challenges to that and whatadvice do you have for our
titled leaders out there?
Jacqueline Farrington (31:42):
I think the most important thing for
leaders is to always be mindfulof the connection between
leadership and communication.
You cannot be an effectiveleader if you're not an
effective communicator. And alsobe aware of not always
delegating 100%, yourcommunication to your your comms
(32:04):
teams, your communicationsteams, have a role in that,
decide and be clear on how youneed to show up as a leader and
as a communicator and play anactive role in that with your
communications teams is
Dr. Leah OH (32:23):
You are right, Jacqueline. We cannot be an
effective leader withouteffective communication. If
we're not a good communicator, astrong communicator, we might
have some wins as a leader, butthey're likely to be pretty
short lived when we can'tdevelop and maintain these
relationships or communicate aclear vision. So I really
appreciate that response. And myfinal question for you, what do
(32:48):
you want to leave all employeeswith these employees all ranks
across all industries? So whatis the advice tip or challenge
related to leadership orcommunication for these friends?
Jacqueline Farrington (33:01):
Prepare, prepare prepare. For for
employees, more junior people,you cannot be prepared enough
preparation sets you free. Itallows you to pivot in the
moment it allows you to play.
When you don't have to thinkabout all those questions you
(33:22):
answer in preparation. You thenfree up your brain, you don't
create cognitive overload ifyou're having to figure it all
out on the day. So I can'tstress that enough. And then I
think to both employees andleaders, the last thing I'd
leave you with is commit tobeing a lifelong student of
communications, we can all bebetter communicators, and it is
(33:47):
a lifelong learning. We willstop learning the day we die. So
be open, be curious, becommitted to learning.
Dr. Leah OH (33:58):
Gosh, isn't that the truth? Oh, Jacqueline, thank
you. Again, I really haveenjoyed our conversation. You
have left me with so many tips.
And again, I have a PhD incommunication, folks. So the
expertise that Jacqueline hascultivated is really, really
incredible. And again, thepragmatics are things that we
can all start to work on, tofeel like a stronger
(34:22):
communicator to make thoseconnections with our audience,
and to speak in a way thatinfluences the audience in the
way in which we attend. Soagain, thank you for joining us
on the communicative leader.
It's been a pleasure. Alright,my friends, that wraps up our
conversation today. Until nexttime, communicate with intention
(34:46):
and lead with purpose. Lookingforward to chatting with you
again soon. I'm thecommunicative leader.
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