This conversation empowers midlife women, providing them with practical strategies to redefine their careers and embrace new opportunities. We explore vital communication themes, mentorship's role, and overcoming imposter syndrome, focusing on actionable steps to regain confidence.
• Emphasis on effective communication and self-promotion
• Strategies to overcome imposter syndrome
• Insights on embracing career shifts as opportunities
• Importance of mentorship for personal growth
• Networking as a two-way street for success
• Encouragement to redefine success during midlife
Mention Dr. Leah's name for a complimentary 30-minute session with Sairan for personalized advice on scaling your LinkedIn or starting a side project.
Hey leader! Thanks for listening. For more leadership communication tips, check out https://www.thecommunicativeleader.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Leah OH (00:01):
Hi, welcome to another episode of the
Communicative Leader.
I'm your host, Dr.
Leah OH, and today we'reprivileged to have Sairan Aqrawi
join us.
This is going to be atransformative conversation
about empowering midlife women.
Sayron is an accomplishedengineer and also a business
coach and strategist who'sdedicated to supporting midlife
(00:21):
women as they navigate uniquechallenges and opportunities in
the professional landscape.
With a passion sparked by herown journey, Saeron understands
firsthand the complexities womenface during this pivotal stage
of life and career.
In this episode, we're going toexplore the common
communication patterns thatmight hold midlife women back,
(00:43):
strategies for articulatingtheir value and how they can
embrace evolving priorities.
Sae Ron will also share herinsights on networking,
overcoming imposter syndrome andthe important role of
mentorship and fosteringempowerment.
Whether you're a midlife womanseeking to redefine your career
path or a leader looking tosupport your female colleagues,
(01:06):
this conversation is packed withactionable advice,
encouragement and inspiration tohelp you thrive in your career.
So let's dive in and have somefun.
Hello and welcome to theCommunicative Leader hosted by
me, Dr Leah Omilion- Hodges.
My friends call me Dr OH.
I'm a professor ofcommunication and a leadership
(01:28):
communication expert.
I'm the communicative leader.
We're working to make your worklife what you want it to be,
Sairan, we're so excited to haveyou on the communicative leader
and, before we dive in for ourlisteners, can you share a bit
about your journey into coachingand strategy and what
(01:49):
specifically sparked thatpassion for empowering midlife
women?
Sairan Aqrawi (01:54):
Thank you, dr Leah, for having me at your
lovely podcast.
As you see on my LinkedIn page,it's over 30 years engineering.
That's telling you for sure I'mold.
I'm not a new grad fromengineering.
So my bachelor is civilengineering, which is all
construction.
I started with wood on theground, doing survey, field
(02:16):
inspection just start from thebottom, doing everything what
civil engineers do.
And then, when I moved to theUnited States in 1996, engineer
do.
And then, when I moved toUnited States in 1996, I knew
that I need to pursue more graddegree in order to, you know,
scale my engineering career.
So I went back to school and Iearned my master's degree in
(02:37):
system integration and rightafter that, I started the
doctoral program in 2018.
I was all pumped up, excited.
Yay, I'm smart math, this is mybaby, I can do it, no problem.
Well, I was wrong, right,because doctoral, as you know,
you earn a PhD degree indoctorate.
You know how hard it is.
Dr. Leah OH (02:58):
It's dedication.
Sairan Aqrawi (02:59):
It's literally.
I knew later, after the firstsemester, I need to be in a cave
and just grow a bear and justright and just you know, just
study and do research.
I could not handle the firstsemester because it was too much
on me.
I had two kids back then and ateenage in high school, and my
husband was overseas traveling80% of the time and I was here.
(03:23):
I am almost a single mom,taking care of two kids, working
full time job and starting adoctorate.
But always live, dr Leah, putthings in front of us in purpose
to to pivot and redirect us todifferent direction, for
something more impactful in ourlife.
And that's exactly whathappened when I was at my
(03:44):
doctorate program.
Right after the first semester,I was approached by the
Department of Women inEngineering at my university.
They said they'd like me togive a speech for the younger
engineer who's just graduatingfrom engineering school.
Basically talk about thereality, about women in
(04:05):
engineering.
What does look like when yougraduate and you hit the
workforce?
Is it all rosy?
Is everybody will welcome them?
As you know, it's never thecase.
So I was like, okay, I'm not aspeaker, but I will give it a
shot.
So I went there and after Ispoke with those younger
engineers I think it was like anhour and a half the head of the
department approached me andshe said oh, the girls loved you
(04:28):
.
You happen to be a live andbusiness coach.
And I thought in my mind,coaches is just for athletes,
because I was a swimming coachmyself back in Iraq and I was
like no, I was just a swimmingcoach.
She said oh, they really lovedthe way how you, you know,
address the stories and how toillustrate the real life.
There was a lot of, you know,sense of humor.
(04:50):
You make them very relaxed.
You didn't scare them about thereality.
I think you are born a coachand I was like what she's
talking about?
She made me curious.
I put my doctoral in freezeit's still in the freeze until
now and I fell in love with thecoaching and mentoring and I
started a small business and therest is history.
(05:10):
So I see my life in a waytransition, although I'm still a
full-time engineer doingengineering job nine to five.
But my passion and my skill andmy hidden gem and my everything
speak to me when I really seeme in the room with women, not
(05:31):
only empowering them, becausemotivation and empowerment.
It doesn't last long.
It's like a painkiller rightyou can give it to someone and
they just relax for a couple ofhours.
Mine is more about action andstrategy.
This is why, after five yearsbeing a transition expert in
coaching women whointernationally moved to the
(05:53):
United States legally with anengineering degree, I was
helping them to fulfill theirAmerican dream and I was like
you know what?
I'm an engineer.
I should be more courageous andchange my niche.
So I changed my niche 2023 andI become a business strategist.
Basically, I guide midlifewomen to really think about
(06:16):
their midlife stage, not as anend, but as a rebirth.
This is a time to rediscoverhidden talent, redefine their
success and take bold actiontowards new opportunities.
Dr. Leah OH (06:31):
Yeah, Thank you, Sairan.
There's so, so many beautifulthings that you pulled in there
and I really love that you'rejust demonstrating the amount of
kind of flex and leaning intodemonstrating the amount of kind
of flex and leaning into newcuriosities and interests and
passions, because I think somany think, oh, I've got this
job, I have this degree and I'mdone and this is what it is and
(06:53):
this is my lane and for somethat will work, but for many we
recognize that's not going tokeep filling all of these
different needs that we havefilling all of these different
needs that we have.
Sairan Aqrawi (07:05):
Yes, yes, and you said, dr Leah, something, a
word, very profound curiosity,and I feel if you lose that
curiosity and the ability tocreate and innovate, you are
aging automatically.
If I'm 50 and I play it so safeevery day I go to work, pick up
the paycheck, have two, threevacation with my kids, taking
pictures on Instagram, make itlook like it's the best family.
(07:28):
That is no joy there, that'sjust a routine day by day.
But the curiosity you mentionedand the ability to keep
innovating, keep having abilityto, it's all energy, like I'm
creating an idea, I'm creating asmall business.
That's what you feel at yourmidlife.
You're 50.
You feel you are 30 because youkeep producing ideas.
(07:50):
So there is no limit for women.
Dr. Leah OH (07:53):
Excellent.
And so with that and you know,I know that you've been doing
this for a while and indifferent capacities, but I
imagine kind of across the board, there have been some unique
challenges and opportunitiesthat you've kind of seen emerge
for many women that are facingin midlife in their careers.
Sairan Aqrawi (08:15):
Yes for sure.
I mean, those challenges willnever go away If I come here to
this podcast and I say, oh, youcan delete those challenges,
guess what?
It will never go away.
If I come here to this podcastand I say, oh, you can delete
those challenges, guess what?
It will never go away why thoseblocks basically stay there.
We just need to have the skillshow to handle those challenges
(08:36):
and block, how to jump over themor how to befriend them.
I see, on Midlife Woman, we facereally unique challenges in the
professional world.
Let's talk about theprofessional career.
You see the ageism.
You see the shifting careerpriorities.
You see younger people whoclimb the ladder way faster than
(08:57):
you.
And here you are with theexperience, with the credential,
with all the degree you have.
You see someone with maybeheavier network skills right, he
become your boss or he becomesomeone higher than you.
I see those challenges stillthere.
But the opportunity I alwaystell the midlife woman when they
(09:17):
approach me to be a client, Isaid never, ever forget the
skills and the experience youhave.
No one can take that away fromyou.
Dr Leah, you can be in the room.
I can bring all those geeks mykid's age come challenging you,
but there is only one, dr Leah,who has over 20 years experience
(09:38):
.
That amount of experience andskills you have, nobody can take
it away from you, no one.
You just have to leverage it.
You have to celebrate it andalso think about it.
For midlife women we get to apoint when we hit our 50, the
ability for solving problems.
(09:59):
It's amazing my daughter alwaystelling me mom, why you don't
let go, why you need to solveeverything.
Like I take my engineeringequation ability even to life,
like when something happened inthe house and I'm trying to be a
handy woman and fix things, shesaid mom, just ask someone to
fix it.
Hit the midlife.
(10:28):
We feel like we have theability to solve problems, even
if it's not related toexperience, even if it's not
position or law or engineering.
We have that skill set.
Let me see how can I do this.
And also the most importantthings we have in midlife as
women.
We have a strong emotionalintelligence and this emotional
intelligence and confidence andability to handle our emotion
(10:50):
and being like, contained and beyou know, like when you see
somebody oh, he's a stoic, right, he's very stoic, because that
doesn't come when you are 20.
With all respect to the youngergeneration I have two in the
house.
I have 23 and 21, my son and mydaughter.
(11:10):
They are very, very, very stoic, very mature, but in general
you don't get that competent andconfidence until many years of
experience.
So the opportunity, as we havethe challenges, so the
opportunity is there.
It's treat that stage as a timefor reinvention rather than
(11:32):
limitation.
This is not a limitation stage,this is a reinvention.
Dr. Leah OH (11:36):
Yeah, what a powerful way for you to help
reframe that Because, again,you're getting so many messages
from society and, whether it'sexplicit or implicit, like you
said, you're watching otherpeople progress more quickly but
instead of, you know, leaninginto that negative narrative,
looking and saying you know,what have I developed?
(11:56):
What have I cultivated thatothers haven't had the
opportunity to or the need to?
Sairan Aqrawi (12:02):
Exactly, you said , what you cultivated is layers.
It's a year after year afteryear.
Your reputation at Dr Leah, atyour career, didn't come
overnight.
You worked so hard in order toget to this point and no one can
take that away from you sopowerful.
Dr. Leah OH (12:22):
So I'm wondering now, as, as a communication
scholar, I'm going to ask youabout some of these common
communication patterns or habitsthat you see, especially among
midlife women, that might beholding them back from achieving
their full potential.
Sairan Aqrawi (12:38):
Very good question.
I love that because we do itevery day, I'm guilty of doing
it, I'm still doing it Everytime.
I'm like.
Let me rephrase what I justsaid.
We feel, because we are inmidlife stages, we hesitate to
self-promote.
We think that we have thisbelief that, oh, my work should
speak for itself.
No, it's not.
(12:58):
Everything is now marketing andsell.
You sell yourself everywhere,right and speaking gigs and
podcasts and conferences andstaff meeting, even in
educational institutions.
You have to really marketyourself.
In a way, you need to remindthe audience what is your real
(13:19):
value.
Because we tend to be like, wekind of like play it safe.
We go in the corner, we sit onthe table, say I'm just
listening, no, listen and alsoadd value.
And people always call you back, dr Leah, when they see the
value.
They said, oh, her appearance,oh, my God, she adds so much
(13:39):
value.
So people always tend to run tothat.
So don't be hesitant at amidlife woman to sell promotion,
because not all the time yourwork speak for that and other
things.
I see I'm guilty of that, I'mstill doing it.
I try to reduce it as much as Ican.
We over-apologize, we use a lotof passive language.
(14:01):
And when we say, for example,he said, oh, let me help you, I
think I believe.
Don't think and believe, justsay shift that language.
Say I recommend, I recommend youto do this.
And when you are in 50 or, likeme, in mid-50s, say I recommend
(14:22):
I seen it.
When I tell a younger engineerin the team, I recommend you to
do this way, I'm mentoring thatyoung girl.
I'm not saying that because Iread that time that lines in a
book.
It's not just reading book,I've been in it, I've been
through it right.
So we need to kind of becareful about our language.
(14:45):
We need to choose the word.
They teach us at the coachingschool said always try to tweak
or change the negativeconnotation to something more
powerful.
So when people come to you sayI'm old, I say no, you are wise.
(15:06):
Oh, I am not able.
No, you are facing challenges.
Don't say problems, saychallenges.
So we need to watch ourlanguages in order to come
across someone with skills andmore wisdom.
Dr. Leah OH (15:21):
Yes, yes, I love that.
I was thinking you know, if Ijust watched a YouTube video and
I think this is how I fix mysink at home, because you know I
have self-efficacy, I can say Ithink that.
But when I'm in a meeting andsomeone's asking me for
leadership advice, I recommendwhat I've learned, what I've
studied, what I've found.
Sairan Aqrawi (15:41):
Yes, thank you very much.
Exactly Because it's come froma place of experience and skills
.
You have not accumulated thisfrom reading a book or, like you
said, watching a YouTube.
That doesn't make you an expert, yep, that doesn't make you an
expert, right.
Dr. Leah OH (15:59):
Exactly so.
Let's look a little more aboutcommunication, and I'm sure this
is a conversation you've hadwith many of your clients.
But how do you recommend so?
If women at this stage of theircareers, how do they
effectively communicate theirvalue and experience in a way
that resonates with youngergenerations and leadership teams
(16:21):
?
And I mean, you've kind ofhinted at this, but if you have
anything else that you kind ofgo to and helping women navigate
this, we'd love to hear it.
Sairan Aqrawi (16:30):
Yeah, I mean, I face that in both places, in my
house and at work.
I mean, effective communicationis such a crucial.
Communication is very important.
I do it at home with two kids.
123, 121, new generation, allapps, all AI.
Everything's quick, quick,quick, right.
Most of the stuff that Ilearned in Instagram I learned
(16:53):
it from my daughter when she was18 or 19.
So imagine, and when it's comeas you as a midlife leader, you
can make that bridge between youand the new generation by a
couple of things.
First of all, not judging thembecause they are younger.
They come with a lot ofintelligence.
(17:15):
Also, they bring brilliantideas.
So you kind of want to buildthat bridge about adopting.
Adoption is very important.
It's like I always ask mydaughter what is the new things
you are doing?
Please teach me a little bit.
Because they are in technologywise, they are ahead of us.
But by us adding value to them,not to judge them, we can just
(17:36):
come to say the new generationoh, I done all of that by hand.
Now we're doing it in an appthat's dumb.
Don't, don't use those labels,because they're gonna ship back.
They're not gonna likecommunication with you.
You have to say, oh, my god, oh, there is an app for that, oh,
there is a uh, microsoft tools,oh, there's an excel sheet.
Can you teach me that so kindof like building that
(18:00):
appreciation and acknowledgementto them?
And also what is effect a lotespecially I do it at home and
at work storytelling.
Storytelling is such a powerfultool, dr Leah, because you're
kind of sharing your insightwith them.
By your previous experience.
You said, oh my God, you remindme about myself when I was in
(18:23):
college.
I face the same thing, but youknow what's worked for me.
You know, the first timesomeone asked me to do this kind
of storytelling.
You add a little bit of fun,you add a little bit of sense of
humor.
And what do they say?
Fact tells story self.
Right, the fact tells storyself because the story, even
when you give a speech and whenyou associate story with it,
(18:46):
people will still remember thatstory from you.
Dr. Leah OH (18:48):
Mm, hmm, yeah, I really like that.
I'm thinking too, you're kindof tying in some of that reverse
mentoring, where it becomesmutually beneficial across the
generations, where if they'rehelping you with an app and then
you're seeing them, you cangive them some political insight
that they likely are unaware of, or other elements that have
(19:11):
come with your experiences thatthey haven't yet kind of grown
on their own.
Sairan Aqrawi (19:17):
Yes, yes, yeah, reverse mentorship.
It reminds me about I think itwas an article written by Robert
Tureen.
He's a famous author, americanauthor.
He talked about people ask himwhat is the road for success?
I think one line.
I hope I'm putting it right.
He said there is no shortcut tosucceed, but one of the
(19:39):
shortcuts he can say it's one ofthem is mentorship.
You need a mentor, you need amentor, you need a coach.
And a lot of people, dr Leah,come to you and said, oh,
mentorship is accessory, coachis an accessory.
I'm here to tell you is not?
I'm a certified ACC.
I have clients.
I have my own coach which I paydouble than what client pay me,
(19:59):
because I want to scale my game.
I don't want to stay in thesame level as a coach.
I want you, when you see me infive years, said wow, she's in
different level, so I'm notgoing to be in that different
level if I don't have a coachmyself.
So mentorship, it's soessential and it's a two-way
street, like when I mentoryounger engineers.
Like when I mentor youngerengineers who said I don't learn
(20:22):
from them.
I do, I do learn from them.
I passed them 25 years, sothey're picking up a lot of
things that didn't come acrossme as a professional engineer.
So mentoring it's veryimportant, it's not an accessory
.
Dr. Leah OH (20:39):
Yes, and Seiran, I think I can say with complete
confidence that you'll beleveled up before five years,
thank you, thank you, dr.
Yes, and say, ron, I think Ican say with complete confidence
that you'll be leveled upbefore five years, thank you,
thank you, dr.
Sairan Aqrawi (20:47):
Yes.
Dr. Leah OH (20:48):
So let's think about shifting priorities
because we know that for manywomen, especially during midlife
, there might be a shift in adesire for more fulfilling work.
So with this kind of questionit's a multi-part one, but just
thinking about how do we eitherarticulate this if we think our
current employer, if there'ssome capacity for us to take on
(21:11):
different projects, and ifthat's not the case, if we find
ourselves kind of looking at anew career path at this point in
life, what strategies do youhave?
Sairan Aqrawi (21:24):
Very good question.
And that's go back to the nicheI have in my business finding
your hidden gem or hidden talent.
Here I am engineer withtechnology skills doing
engineering and look at mybusiness have nothing to do with
technology, it's to emotionalintelligence.
So, basically, what I did, Iarranged marriage between IQ and
EQ.
(21:44):
So my IQ is all.
I have to be precise andconcise.
I have to solve the equationwith no mistake, because every
number is going to make a fatalproblem right.
I'm designing building bridgesor sanitary sewer or water
service.
These are all precise andconcise calculation.
When it's come to my business,I shift my mind.
(22:08):
So it's like IQ.
I left the IQ at the day joband I deal with the EQ because
when I do coaching andmentorship, I put all my soul
and energy in it, because that'sexactly what is my hidden gem,
that's exactly what I enjoy.
And my message to your audienceor any woman in midlife, or
(22:28):
leadership you don't have tokeep what doesn't add joy to
your life.
And I'll give you an example.
You might have client PhDdegree.
She's teaching elite, you knowIvy League, making a lot of
money.
But she comes to me and I lookat her LinkedIn, amazing.
(22:48):
Oh my God, all the paper, allthe podcasts, all the interviews
she does.
But she comes not happy, andwhen you ask her she said I have
a PhD degree.
I have wonderful kids.
They are both well-behaved,great degree and, you know,
well-established.
My husband is wonderful.
I have a $5 million house,financially very comfortable.
(23:11):
Then why you are here and theytell you I feel numb.
It's like numb, going to workevery day, coming home fixed
dinner, sleep, next day, thesame thing.
So there is lack of joy andthere is also you feel like
their soul is sad, their energysleeps, it's like they're only
(23:36):
numb and the soul is deadBecause all they are doing
they're just going to work, pickup the paycheck and come home.
And my advice to go back toyour question, dr Leah no way
I'll come to that client and say, with your PhD degree, teaching
school, you like painting, justpaint.
That's not ideal right andthat's not logic.
(24:00):
First of all, she's established.
She studied so many years, shepaid all those bills, she
established a quality life forher family.
She's not going to quit all ofthat because her hidden gem is
painting.
No, what I'm asking that clientis celebrate what you have If
you love to paint.
You're doing things by yourhand knitting, you're writing,
(24:23):
you're speaking, you're fixingthings by hand.
There is a lot of guys fix,make table.
You see their pieces likeantique, right.
And if you have that skill,make it a side heaven or haven.
I call my business.
I don't call my business sidehustle.
There is no hustle in my sidebusiness.
(24:44):
My side business is side heavenor haven Because when I go
there I don't feel a time andeffort.
I love it, I'm just deep, deepdive inside like I'm swimming in
the swimming pool right.
So, for those women who see thattheir job is not really
(25:05):
fulfilling them with joy.
I tell them midlife is the time, Because midlife is the perfect
time to align your work with apurpose.
If you don't align your workwith purpose, there is no joy.
Dr. Leah OH (25:20):
Yeah, I really love that and I think too I was
listening and thinking aboutespecially in the US we have
this live-to-work mentality andit sounds like it's helpful to
flip it to the work-to-live Like.
I work just to support thislife, but recognizing that's one
small part of a much fullerlife.
Sairan Aqrawi (25:41):
Life is so full of a much fuller life.
Life is so full and if midlifewomen know how much left you'd
rather to have that alignmentand discovery in your 50 that
you never have it and you dieand you keep saying, oh, I wish
if I, I wish if I.
That's so painful, but if youget that alignment and
realization when you are 50,you're going to have 20 years
(26:04):
more quality living on yourdream and your side business,
nothing being wasted.
There is nothing wrong that youwent to school for law or for
IT or for medical for 25 years.
Nobody said that was wrong.
But when you hit your midlife,this is your time to rebirth.
This is your time to shine andvivid color Life is still on.
(26:27):
You don't have just to be anemployee.
You can create, you can addvalue, you can leave an impact.
Dr. Leah OH (26:34):
Oh, it's so powerful.
So let's think about networkingnow.
And so we know there's thislong storied history that's
telling us how importantnetworking is, and we know it's
important, we have the researchto support that, but we also
know it can be very awkward,especially for introverts.
So I'm wondering what your toptips are for midlife women who
(26:56):
are either seeking to build thisnetwork, if they haven't yet,
or maintain it.
Sairan Aqrawi (27:03):
Seeking to build this network if they haven't yet
or maintain it.
I love the question.
So networking is essential,just like communication.
I mean.
When I say networking, peoplethink, oh, just attend anything
you've been invited to.
Oh, you're invited to a womenempowerment, you're invited to
educational event at theuniversity, which is fine At the
beginning.
If you are just starting thisand you want to master
(27:27):
networking, there is nothingwrong to attend to a couple of
those in the beginning, just totest the water, to see what do
you really, what do you align to, what is your energy falling
into?
My advice is if you've beeninvited, you respect the person
who invite you, thank them.
So thank you for inviting me.
But if you enter that room andyou, you will feel it there is
(27:51):
no mutual energy exchangebetween you and the subject.
It's all about politics, it'sall about religion.
You are and you you areprofessional.
You don't need to be in placesthat doesn't belong to you.
And it's not rude to tell theperson who invited you to that
religion or politics, whatevernetwork, and say thank you so
(28:14):
much.
I really enjoy, you know, 10minutes, 20 minutes, but I'm
afraid I have to leave because Ihave another commitment.
So you attended just forrespect, but for next time, you
know now that platform is allabout those two subjects, so you
can avoid it, right?
So any network, dr Leah, if youfeel doesn't add value to you
(28:38):
and you don't add value to it,don't go, because it's a two-way
street, right?
So if I go to a network, let'ssay, you invite me to STEM.
There's a lot of youngerengineers there.
I'm like, oh, Dr Leah, this isbeautiful.
It reminds me about me when Iwas young and all of that.
I come to that STEM and I starttalking with those younger
(28:58):
engineers.
Oh, my God, oh, you're doingthis, You're going to do master.
Oh, you know Dr Leah too.
Yes, she invited me.
So there is like a communicationback and forth and I add value
to that younger girl because I'mmentoring her, I'm telling her
what's really worth, what's comeafter her study as a master
(29:18):
engineer, what's real life inengineering.
So I'm adding value and thereis a mutual communication,
that's.
I can go back again If youinvite me next year for the same
STEM event.
I'm going to come because I seethat energy exchange right and
networking to me.
I have a strong belief itshould not be only about you
(29:43):
doing transaction and check,check, check.
Oh, I know Dr Leah, she's goingto make me appear in her
podcast.
I know Dr who is.
It doesn't work like that.
It should be more aboutbuilding rapport and also having
deep conversation, Because whenI come to this network, I need
to learn something from you.
Dr. Leah OH (30:05):
If.
Sairan Aqrawi (30:05):
I'm just here to have a crowd and having the free
lunch or dinner.
What is that?
You don't want to kill yourtime this way.
You want to really utilize yourtime.
You are in midlife Time is goldright.
You want to really utilize thattime in a way that's adding
(30:25):
value to others and add value toyourself.
Dr. Leah OH (30:29):
Yeah, I really love that.
I've never thought aboutnetworking as so reciprocal.
It kind of felt more like ato-do, and I think, too, that
idea of shifting the focus tosomething more concrete, like
building rapport and making itabout depth rather than shaking
every hand in the room, is avery, very helpful one.
Sairan Aqrawi (30:49):
Yes, yes, definitely, definitely.
You don't need to be liked andclapped every time you appear
anywhere.
It's not about you, that'sattention syndrome.
We all have that ego Aftercertain years.
I am whoever Look at my LinkedIn, who cares?
Right?
There's a lot of importantpeople that are very humble and
(31:10):
they appear on those and younever know.
They are millionaires or theyare entrepreneurs or they are
philanthropists.
They do a lot of great things.
They never show it this way,but if you feel you don't belong
, just leave in a dominant anddiplomatic way, yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (31:27):
Very helpful.
So, thinking about syndromes,let's think about imposter
syndrome, and this is one weknow we can experience it at any
point in our career and I know,as a leadership communication
scholar, I have a lot of womenwho say this really came up when
I got that manager role or thatdirector role.
So, sivran, how do you helpwomen combat that self-doubt and
(31:53):
learn to communicate theiraccomplishments, their abilities
, with confidence?
Sairan Aqrawi (32:01):
Yes.
So the imposter syndrome, it'sjust like the obstacle and the
challenges we talk about.
I will not only me.
No one can come to you and say,oh, there is a manual, there is
a book.
You follow one, two, three andthe imposter syndrome will go
away Again.
(32:21):
Not, those things doesn't goaway.
You just learn how to handlethem in a better way.
Right, I can't come because I'mI have confidence.
I said I have confidence I canspeak tomorrow for our audience
50,000.
And I never spoke before.
You will still be nervous to be,to be in that stage.
(32:43):
You still be be nervous.
You're still going to staynervous before any podcast.
You're still going to benervous for your next promotion,
next interview, the the way howI handle that, have handled
that nervousness.
I make it kind of likeexcitement, like when last week
one of my clients she said oh, Isee you, you speaking at
(33:03):
Richmond for the Women's Summit.
Are you nervous?
I said, in reality I am, butI'm not going to say it.
I'm going to say I'm excited.
So again, I'm tweaking the word.
Right, that's number one.
Number two for the emergingleader, or younger girls who
want to be supervisor, managerand leader at your job.
I always tell them don't seekthat perfectionist.
(33:25):
No one is perfect, right.
But if you accomplish a win ora small achievement, have like a
log, say, oh, within six monthsI learned three software.
That's a win.
So little by little yourimposter syndrome go away
because you see, like in Januaryyou were all scared about those
(33:46):
three software, but by June youare mastering those three
software.
Now you're teaching others thatsoftware.
So that's imposter syndrome willsleep because I was scared.
Now it's down because I learnedhow to do it.
So basically, the antidote forthat syndrome is action.
(34:07):
It's only action, because I'mstill scared If you keep telling
me say, ron, I wish, if youcome to my podcast and I keep
telling Dr Leah, I'm so scared,oh my God, I'm intimidated, I'm
not going to be fit for yourpodcast.
But if I take action, if I showup with all the flaws and all
(34:27):
the shortening that I have, myaccent or whatever, I will not
match your knowledge here, butjust by me showing up and adding
value to your podcast, myimposter syndrome went away
because I took action.
That's the only way you can getrid of it.
Dr. Leah OH (34:46):
And when you were just saying that, I love that
idea of action as the answer,Because with imposter syndrome
we feel stuck, right, it canfeel like a paralysis and it's
easy to remain stuck.
But it's that one step, thatlittle bit of action, like you
said, the goal setting inJanuary and saying, oh wow, I
(35:07):
did this.
I was so afraid of thesesoftwares and now I'm teaching
others.
Sairan Aqrawi (35:11):
Yes, you take the move.
I think Tony Robinson said itin one of his interviews.
He said when you feel stuck,like you said, Dr Leah, it's the
best thing to do is to stand upand just move your body.
It's like you interrupt, youdisrupt the thinking, you
disrupt the chain.
So you stand up and you moveyour hands and your legs.
And he's right, Because whenyou sit and you're comfortable,
(35:33):
he said oh my God, I can't dothis, I'm really stuck.
But if you stand up and you dosomething, you kind of like
disrupt the thinking, right, thenegative thinking.
You're going to get out of thatcycle.
Dr. Leah OH (35:44):
Disrupt the thinking right, the negative
thinking.
You're going to get out of thatcycle?
Yeah, exactly.
And so I want to talk aboutmentorship again, and I know
we've already touched on thisthat I think we can't
underestimate how much thismeans, you know, at any point in
our career.
But I think, as you've beensaying, there's a special
function it can play for amidlife woman in empowering them
(36:05):
.
So can you give us a littlemore insight or anything you
haven't already had the chanceto add about kind of the role of
mentorship for an empoweringmidlife women, both as the
mentor but also as a mentee?
Sairan Aqrawi (36:20):
Yes, I don't know if you looked at my LinkedIn
page that the platform or thearea that I mentor at not
necessarily that old technology,although that's my background.
So I did mentor at Women inTechnology.
I mentor at Women inEngineering at George Washington
University.
I mentor at ACEC.
(36:41):
They are all engineers.
But I also try to mentor someyounger women who are just
seeking clarity, Because we aswomen, even when we are younger
age, we always have that belief.
We have to figure it out all bytheory.
Why?
Who said that?
Is there a book saying that oh,I got married, I have to have
(37:06):
babies right away, I have to getmy master right away, I have to
buy a house my American dream.
I have my bills off?
Who said there is no manual andrules telling you 31 is the
best age or 32 is the best ageto doing your master or having a
baby.
You go with the flow and you gowith what's best for you.
So that's where mentorshipcomes the flow and you go with
what's best for you.
So that's where mentorshipcomes.
Very essential and it's veryhandy, Because when you have a
(37:30):
mentor, it's a guidance.
I'm not going to tell theyounger engineer oh, I did it
this way.
You should do it my way.
That's not mentorship, right?
Mentorship is like I'm holdingthe flashlight.
I'm just going to say, hey,this is what you're doing.
I'm holding the flashlight,it's adding more light to the
path.
It's adding more light and aguidance.
And if that lady challenged me,she's 23 and I'm in my 50s she
(37:55):
said I don't think.
So I said then I don't thinkyou are a good fit as a mentee
because I'm not telling you whatto do.
I am guiding you to the rightpath, right?
So it's up to you.
It's all inner work, if youwant to take it in and do your
homework.
Great.
If you are here to kind of likechallenging who's ahead of you
(38:17):
25 years, that's a differentstory.
We are competing here, right,but I have to be honest with you
, dr Leah.
Among all the mentorship I did,I benefit a lot in both ways.
I benefit when I've beenmentored and I benefit when I
was mentoring others and what Idid after I shut down my old
(38:40):
platform in September 2023, Ichanged my niche from transition
expert to a business strategist.
I had women mentor before andthey were amazing, amazing women
mentor Women, women to women.
They were nice to me.
Oh my God say Ron, you change alot.
We see you're scaling up here.
(39:01):
You are better than five yearsago.
I say you know what?
This time I'm going to have aman mentoring me, and a man has
nothing to do with engineering.
So I had one of those mentors,amel.
He was, I think, late 70 andretired pilot.
Look at him.
There is no relation between meand him, right, but his first
(39:23):
perspective came out to me sofresh and challenging because he
was a military guy, pilot andall orders and here I am the
lady with equation, right, andhe was a male.
He was looking at other thingsthat other women mentors didn't
see, things that other womenmentors didn't see.
(39:49):
So I benefit from both.
I benefit from both perspectivebecause they add certain things
and actually they, they uh,point out things that I never
thought about and never thoughtabout.
I have one of the mentor, um,from Illinois.
She was telling me oh, my God,you do have sense of humor, I
would use it more.
And I was like, okay, I'm anengineer, I have to look all
(40:09):
bold and rigid and all serious,and I don't.
I literally don't blink at thestaff meeting, like if I'm with
other engineers I don't blinkbecause I look.
So you know, like oh in her, youknow in her uh space and she
know what she's talking about.
She said no, say you don't haveto.
We have to add a little bitflavors, like salt to the food.
(40:32):
You have sense of humor, justuse it.
So mentorship it's essential inboth ways.
If you are mentoring or you'vebeen, mentored and I love to.
Dr. Leah OH (40:42):
There's, I think, a certain maturity that someone
has to have when they arerecognizing that there's
something to learn from everyoneand not saying you're the one
mentor I need or you're in thiscategory that I need, but
recognizing, you know, and theremight be points in our life
when we need someone who's justin one certain niche or certain
(41:05):
identity markers.
But I think too, when you kindof pull that curtain back and
recognize we are so different.
But that's what I really neednow.
I need, you know, someone toprovide insight in areas that I
don't see or I don't know.
Sairan Aqrawi (41:22):
You said we are so different.
It reminds me about something.
It's so true, even arelationship.
You see, you are a friend,close friend, with someone
totally different than you.
They are totally different ineverything.
And that's exactly when I metmy husband.
He is 100% different than me ineverything.
Dr. Leah OH (41:39):
Thanks God, he's not an engineer.
Sairan Aqrawi (41:41):
I thank God every day.
He's not an engineer, becausetwo engineers in the house it's
a disaster.
But he's different than me ineverything His approach.
Literally, dr Leah, if we go toa furniture store and we see
two tables, only two tables,he's going to like the one that
I don't like.
It's totally different, but webecome such a good partner and a
(42:03):
wife and husband because allour approach is differently, and
and and.
going back to that mentorshippart also, I want to add one
more things, yeah, even people,when they they come across to
you being I'm saying I'm notgoing to use rude word- I'm
going to say unprofessional, andthey point something in you in
(42:23):
your LinkedIn or a comment inInstagram or Facebook or
whatever and doesn't come acrossprofessional, you benefit even
from that Because they arepointing to something.
You just brush it away.
You didn't give much value, butit's getting your enemy's
attention.
So you're like hmm, let me fixthat so it will not be a point
(42:46):
of attack next time.
So actually your enemies aredoing you a favor by mentioning
it because they are reallyviewing you vetting your
comments in a way, in a verycritical way, said hmm, I
thought this is not major, butI'm going to look into it.
So next time they have no othershort you know short area to
(43:06):
point at.
So everybody giving you acomment is beneficial.
Dr. Leah OH (43:10):
Yeah, I was just thinking about maturity and the
emotional intelligence, too thatit takes to be able to
interpret that as a gift in someways, even though it does not
feel like a gift momentrecognizing it's a place to grow
from.
(43:31):
Yes, yeah, definitely,definitely, yep.
So I have two final questionsfor you, seiran, and they're
connected.
So the way we end all episodesof the Communicative Leader is,
with this, really pragmatic.
It can be leadership,communication, tip, advice
challenge.
So the first part it is for ourtitle leaders out there, our
(43:54):
managers, our directors, oursupervisors, and then the second
part is kind of advice for allemployees across all ranks for
all employees, across all ranks.
Sairan Aqrawi (44:05):
Okay, so the first one.
What is my advice?
Dr. Leah OH (44:12):
to title leaders or managers.
Sairan Aqrawi (44:13):
Which is a big difference between a leader and
a manager.
Dr. Leah OH (44:16):
Managers making the projects.
That's true.
Sairan Aqrawi (44:17):
Finish leader, you have to be a role model.
You cannot be a leader if youare not a role model.
You cannot call yourself aneffective leader if you are not
doing all the ethics aspect ofit.
So if you want your team tofollow you, and by preaching,
telling them you did do it, youhave to do this.
I done it this way, do it myway or the highway.
That's a manager, that's not aleader.
(44:39):
So I feel like most of theleader with all respect, I, I
some, some of them when I meetthem during engineering meetings
.
Their LinkedIn profile isamazing Every credential you
think about in engineering,every degree, every
certification but, man, it's sodifficult to deal with them
(45:04):
because they are not activelisteners.
They come to this meeting, um,with their fancy linkedin title
he's a chief safety officer,director, chief engineer,
whatever it is and he thinks hecan just roll over all the style
without listening.
Basically, he is not givingspace to the audience, he just
(45:26):
see himself.
He come to the table and hesaid I'm a leader, I'm going to
make decision right.
There is no active listening,there is no communication skills
.
So I feel leaders they need tolisten more.
And if they are very impactfulreally and they are making
decisions.
(45:47):
They don't have to go all thetime at the beginning.
They don't need to give us thatspeech about how great they are
, how they closed these projectsbefore they are genius.
They've been skipped by ElonMusk.
They can be partnered with ElonMusk or whatever.
Fine, we saw your LinkedIn.
Guess what?
I'm not impressed.
(46:08):
First of all, you need to listento the audience.
You need to listen to theyounger engineers.
You need to give a space andmake your presence welcoming so
people can approach you forideas, for motivation, for, for,
(46:29):
for, for things that really, uh, make a shortcut at work,
benefit the whole team.
So when you create thatwelcoming environment, it's like
a family, same thing likeparenting.
I feel like a leader is a goodparent because if I am not
giving my kids that space tocome to me and telling me what's
(46:49):
happened in their day they havecertain challenges in the
college I'm not bringing them tomy circle, my trust you know,
circle of trust, right.
Same thing with leaders.
For title leaders, they need tolisten more and make an
environment, space, environment.
(47:10):
Include everyone and don'tjudge younger, emerging leaders
because they have a lot to offer.
Just give them a chance and letthem shine.
Let them shine.
The second part.
What did you say?
Advice to all.
Dr. Leah OH (47:27):
Yeah, so all employees across all ranks, all
industries, so the folks whoaren't in a titled leadership
position, what do you wish theyknew or were working on or
thoughtful of?
Sairan Aqrawi (47:43):
Yeah, that's a very important question For
anyone who's hearing us in thispodcast and who's trying to make
an impact or a difference.
First of all, they need to knowit's all on them, it's an
inside job.
Don't blame the society, don'tblame the election.
(48:03):
Don't blame the news.
Don't blame the election.
Don't blame the news.
Don't blame anyone.
It's you.
This is you versus you, right?
It's?
Dr. Leah OH (48:10):
not versus anybody else, it's an inside job and for
younger generation.
Sairan Aqrawi (48:16):
I feel that they always bring up the word of
confidence I'm not confident toapply for a manager, I'm not
confident to be a leader, I'mnot confident to be a supervisor
.
I always tell them the sameanswer you will never, ever gain
that confidence if you are notcompetent.
You have to gain the skills.
(48:36):
When we say confidence, actionbreeds confidence.
Always when you take action inyour skills, it breeds your
confidence and builds yourconfidence.
Always when you take action inyour skills, it breeds your
confidence and build yourconfidence.
So when you become confident, Igo back to the example I said
if I'm January, you're hiring meand you're giving me three
software that I'm scared todeath to learn them.
(48:57):
But if I learn them towardsJune and I become so master at
it to teach it to others, Ibuild my confidence by being
competent.
Because if I'm not competent,trust me, you go to that room.
The minute you show up in thatroom, people see it.
People see it.
It's not fake it until you makeit.
No, it's work it until you makeit.
(49:20):
You have to work and act on it.
It's action.
I can fake it inside, likebetween me, subconscious and
conscious.
That's different.
That's an inner voice, right.
But when I enter that room andthere is 50, 50 competent
engineers that I'm challengingtheir design, I better to be
done with my homework.
I better to know the book.
(49:42):
I better to know those codesfor structure and steel and
concrete and soil.
I'm not going to show up therejust because in my mid-50s and
I'm a smart engineer.
That doesn't work.
I have to be competent becauseevery single person in that
meeting will challenge me.
So by me not doing the homeworkand not having the facts, it's
(50:03):
an assumption all the time.
You need facts.
I think Rene Brown talked aboutit.
I heard Lyons say when you lackof data, you're making a lot of
assumptions.
Dr. Leah OH (50:15):
It's true, you go to those meetings, educational
medicine.
Sairan Aqrawi (50:20):
it doesn't matter .
If you have no facts.
You're making assumptions.
You need the data because youback up yourself, say I am
challenging you because manual16.1 says such and such.
Nobody can speak up and nobodywill bother you because they
know you are a woman with facts,with homework.
(50:41):
She did her stuff, she had herbullets clear, right, I'm not
challenging her.
And another advice for allemployees is be clear where
you're heading, clarity is power, dr Leah, without clarity.
I tell my client when they docomplimentary 30 minutes with me
.
I say, please, if you are notclear, don't hire me, because I
(51:05):
need you to be clear whereyou're heading.
If you're hiring me to buildyour confidence, don't talk
about losing weight in yoursession.
That has nothing to do with thegoal.
Don't mix them up.
You are here with clarity.
You need a clear path.
It's inside job.
Do it now, don't wait.
Anything you want to do for allthe audience, do it now, before
(51:28):
you are ready, don't wait yeahyou're right because you're
never ready, it's a punishment.
It's a punishment.
Don't take those dreams.
And if with you until the grave, don't take that.
If, if I wish, if I wish, no,do it now, before you are ready.
That's my advice to all.
Dr. Leah OH (51:48):
Yes, that is so, so helpful, and I'm thinking, too,
with your focus on competence.
I love that because it'stangible.
It's something I can actuallymap out a plan for, I can chart
my progress, whereas I say Iwant to become more confident.
That is this murky future,vague state that I'll never know
(52:11):
if I've reached it.
Sairan Aqrawi (52:13):
Yes, yes, definitely, definitely, yeah,
yeah, it's very important andclear.
And and know what you want.
You have to know.
Robert Greene talked about itin the Mastery book what is your
life purpose, what is your lifetask?
And in Mass, I think it'schapter one you call it life
task.
What is your task?
(52:34):
Don't brush it away.
You come to this world not justby making a paycheck and have a
nice house and throw aThanksgiving dinner.
That's not life.
That's everybody's routine, dayto day.
You are in this life to leave animpact and a purpose.
(52:55):
Your purpose is different thanmy purpose.
We complete the puzzles and wemake this coexisting.
We need to know what's ourimpact in order to leave a
legacy at us.
Dr. Leah OH (53:09):
So powerful.
Well, sivran, thank you forsharing your time with us, for
all of this wealth ofinformation that I know is going
to be really, really helpfulfor our leaders.
So again, thank you, and Iappreciate you.
Sairan Aqrawi (53:22):
Thanks to you, dr Leah.
I was honored to be in yourplatform and, for the sake of
your audience and giving a giftaway, I am willing to give away
anyone who mentioned your nameand your platform.
I am willing to give away 30minutes complimentary session.
If they want to scale theirLinkedIn or they want to start
(53:42):
something in a site, if theymention your name and your
platform, they will get thatcomplimentary 30 minutes.
Dr. Leah OH (53:50):
Oh, thank you.
I'll be sure to link all ofyour information.
Sairan Aqrawi (53:52):
Thank you so much .
Thank you, thank you for havingme.
Thank you.
Dr. Leah OH (53:57):
All right, my friends.
That wraps up our conversationtoday.
Until next time, communicatewith intention and lead with
purpose.
I'm looking forward to chattingwith you again soon on the
Communicative Leader.
Hi, welcome to another episode of the
Communicative Leader.
I'm your host, Dr.
Leah OH, and today we'reprivileged to have Sairan Aqrawi
join us.
This is going to be atransformative conversation
about empowering midlife women.
Sayron is an accomplishedengineer and also a business
coach and strategist who'sdedicated to supporting midlife
(00:21):
women as they navigate uniquechallenges and opportunities in
the professional landscape.
With a passion sparked by herown journey, Saeron understands
firsthand the complexities womenface during this pivotal stage
of life and career.
In this episode, we're going toexplore the common
communication patterns thatmight hold midlife women back,
(00:43):
strategies for articulatingtheir value and how they can
embrace evolving priorities.
Sae Ron will also share herinsights on networking,
overcoming imposter syndrome andthe important role of
mentorship and fosteringempowerment.
Whether you're a midlife womanseeking to redefine your career
path or a leader looking tosupport your female colleagues,
(01:06):
this conversation is packed withactionable advice,
encouragement and inspiration tohelp you thrive in your career.
So let's dive in and have somefun.
Hello and welcome to theCommunicative Leader hosted by
me, Dr Leah Omilion- Hodges.
My friends call me Dr OH.
I'm a professor ofcommunication and a leadership
(01:28):
communication expert.
I'm the communicative leader.
We're working to make your worklife what you want it to be,
Sairan, we're so excited to haveyou on the communicative leader
and, before we dive in for ourlisteners, can you share a bit
about your journey into coachingand strategy and what
(01:49):
specifically sparked thatpassion for empowering midlife
women?
Sairan Aqrawi (01:54):
Thank you, dr Leah, for having me at your
lovely podcast.
As you see on my LinkedIn page,it's over 30 years engineering.
That's telling you for sure I'mold.
I'm not a new grad fromengineering.
So my bachelor is civilengineering, which is all
construction.
I started with wood on theground, doing survey, field
(02:16):
inspection just start from thebottom, doing everything what
civil engineers do.
And then, when I moved to theUnited States in 1996, engineer
do.
And then, when I moved toUnited States in 1996, I knew
that I need to pursue more graddegree in order to, you know,
scale my engineering career.
So I went back to school and Iearned my master's degree in
(02:37):
system integration and rightafter that, I started the
doctoral program in 2018.
I was all pumped up, excited.
Yay, I'm smart math, this is mybaby, I can do it, no problem.
Well, I was wrong, right,because doctoral, as you know,
you earn a PhD degree indoctorate.
You know how hard it is.
Dr. Leah OH (02:58):
It's dedication.
Sairan Aqrawi (02:59):
It's literally.
I knew later, after the firstsemester, I need to be in a cave
and just grow a bear and justright and just you know, just
study and do research.
I could not handle the firstsemester because it was too much
on me.
I had two kids back then and ateenage in high school, and my
husband was overseas traveling80% of the time and I was here.
(03:23):
I am almost a single mom,taking care of two kids, working
full time job and starting adoctorate.
But always live, dr Leah, putthings in front of us in purpose
to to pivot and redirect us todifferent direction, for
something more impactful in ourlife.
And that's exactly whathappened when I was at my
(03:44):
doctorate program.
Right after the first semester,I was approached by the
Department of Women inEngineering at my university.
They said they'd like me togive a speech for the younger
engineer who's just graduatingfrom engineering school.
Basically talk about thereality, about women in
(04:05):
engineering.
What does look like when yougraduate and you hit the
workforce?
Is it all rosy?
Is everybody will welcome them?
As you know, it's never thecase.
So I was like, okay, I'm not aspeaker, but I will give it a
shot.
So I went there and after Ispoke with those younger
engineers I think it was like anhour and a half the head of the
department approached me andshe said oh, the girls loved you
(04:28):
.
You happen to be a live andbusiness coach.
And I thought in my mind,coaches is just for athletes,
because I was a swimming coachmyself back in Iraq and I was
like no, I was just a swimmingcoach.
She said oh, they really lovedthe way how you, you know,
address the stories and how toillustrate the real life.
There was a lot of, you know,sense of humor.
(04:50):
You make them very relaxed.
You didn't scare them about thereality.
I think you are born a coachand I was like what she's
talking about?
She made me curious.
I put my doctoral in freezeit's still in the freeze until
now and I fell in love with thecoaching and mentoring and I
started a small business and therest is history.
(05:10):
So I see my life in a waytransition, although I'm still a
full-time engineer doingengineering job nine to five.
But my passion and my skill andmy hidden gem and my everything
speak to me when I really seeme in the room with women, not
(05:31):
only empowering them, becausemotivation and empowerment.
It doesn't last long.
It's like a painkiller rightyou can give it to someone and
they just relax for a couple ofhours.
Mine is more about action andstrategy.
This is why, after five yearsbeing a transition expert in
coaching women whointernationally moved to the
(05:53):
United States legally with anengineering degree, I was
helping them to fulfill theirAmerican dream and I was like
you know what?
I'm an engineer.
I should be more courageous andchange my niche.
So I changed my niche 2023 andI become a business strategist.
Basically, I guide midlifewomen to really think about
(06:16):
their midlife stage, not as anend, but as a rebirth.
This is a time to rediscoverhidden talent, redefine their
success and take bold actiontowards new opportunities.
Dr. Leah OH (06:31):
Yeah, Thank you, Sairan.
There's so, so many beautifulthings that you pulled in there
and I really love that you'rejust demonstrating the amount of
kind of flex and leaning intodemonstrating the amount of kind
of flex and leaning into newcuriosities and interests and
passions, because I think somany think, oh, I've got this
job, I have this degree and I'mdone and this is what it is and
(06:53):
this is my lane and for somethat will work, but for many we
recognize that's not going tokeep filling all of these
different needs that we havefilling all of these different
needs that we have.
Sairan Aqrawi (07:05):
Yes, yes, and you said, dr Leah, something, a
word, very profound curiosity,and I feel if you lose that
curiosity and the ability tocreate and innovate, you are
aging automatically.
If I'm 50 and I play it so safeevery day I go to work, pick up
the paycheck, have two, threevacation with my kids, taking
pictures on Instagram, make itlook like it's the best family.
(07:28):
That is no joy there, that'sjust a routine day by day.
But the curiosity you mentionedand the ability to keep
innovating, keep having abilityto, it's all energy, like I'm
creating an idea, I'm creating asmall business.
That's what you feel at yourmidlife.
You're 50.
You feel you are 30 because youkeep producing ideas.
(07:50):
So there is no limit for women.
Dr. Leah OH (07:53):
Excellent.
And so with that and you know,I know that you've been doing
this for a while and indifferent capacities, but I
imagine kind of across the board, there have been some unique
challenges and opportunitiesthat you've kind of seen emerge
for many women that are facingin midlife in their careers.
Sairan Aqrawi (08:15):
Yes for sure.
I mean, those challenges willnever go away If I come here to
this podcast and I say, oh, youcan delete those challenges,
guess what?
It will never go away.
If I come here to this podcastand I say, oh, you can delete
those challenges, guess what?
It will never go away why thoseblocks basically stay there.
We just need to have the skillshow to handle those challenges
(08:36):
and block, how to jump over themor how to befriend them.
I see, on Midlife Woman, we facereally unique challenges in the
professional world.
Let's talk about theprofessional career.
You see the ageism.
You see the shifting careerpriorities.
You see younger people whoclimb the ladder way faster than
(08:57):
you.
And here you are with theexperience, with the credential,
with all the degree you have.
You see someone with maybeheavier network skills right, he
become your boss or he becomesomeone higher than you.
I see those challenges stillthere.
But the opportunity I alwaystell the midlife woman when they
(09:17):
approach me to be a client, Isaid never, ever forget the
skills and the experience youhave.
No one can take that away fromyou.
Dr Leah, you can be in the room.
I can bring all those geeks mykid's age come challenging you,
but there is only one, dr Leah,who has over 20 years experience
(09:38):
.
That amount of experience andskills you have, nobody can take
it away from you, no one.
You just have to leverage it.
You have to celebrate it andalso think about it.
For midlife women we get to apoint when we hit our 50, the
ability for solving problems.
(09:59):
It's amazing my daughter alwaystelling me mom, why you don't
let go, why you need to solveeverything.
Like I take my engineeringequation ability even to life,
like when something happened inthe house and I'm trying to be a
handy woman and fix things, shesaid mom, just ask someone to
fix it.
Hit the midlife.
(10:28):
We feel like we have theability to solve problems, even
if it's not related toexperience, even if it's not
position or law or engineering.
We have that skill set.
Let me see how can I do this.
And also the most importantthings we have in midlife as
women.
We have a strong emotionalintelligence and this emotional
intelligence and confidence andability to handle our emotion
(10:50):
and being like, contained and beyou know, like when you see
somebody oh, he's a stoic, right, he's very stoic, because that
doesn't come when you are 20.
With all respect to the youngergeneration I have two in the
house.
I have 23 and 21, my son and mydaughter.
(11:10):
They are very, very, very stoic, very mature, but in general
you don't get that competent andconfidence until many years of
experience.
So the opportunity, as we havethe challenges, so the
opportunity is there.
It's treat that stage as a timefor reinvention rather than
(11:32):
limitation.
This is not a limitation stage,this is a reinvention.
Dr. Leah OH (11:36):
Yeah, what a powerful way for you to help
reframe that Because, again,you're getting so many messages
from society and, whether it'sexplicit or implicit, like you
said, you're watching otherpeople progress more quickly but
instead of, you know, leaninginto that negative narrative,
looking and saying you know,what have I developed?
(11:56):
What have I cultivated thatothers haven't had the
opportunity to or the need to?
Sairan Aqrawi (12:02):
Exactly, you said , what you cultivated is layers.
It's a year after year afteryear.
Your reputation at Dr Leah, atyour career, didn't come
overnight.
You worked so hard in order toget to this point and no one can
take that away from you sopowerful.
Dr. Leah OH (12:22):
So I'm wondering now, as, as a communication
scholar, I'm going to ask youabout some of these common
communication patterns or habitsthat you see, especially among
midlife women, that might beholding them back from achieving
their full potential.
Sairan Aqrawi (12:38):
Very good question.
I love that because we do itevery day, I'm guilty of doing
it, I'm still doing it Everytime.
I'm like.
Let me rephrase what I justsaid.
We feel, because we are inmidlife stages, we hesitate to
self-promote.
We think that we have thisbelief that, oh, my work should
speak for itself.
No, it's not.
(12:58):
Everything is now marketing andsell.
You sell yourself everywhere,right and speaking gigs and
podcasts and conferences andstaff meeting, even in
educational institutions.
You have to really marketyourself.
In a way, you need to remindthe audience what is your real
(13:19):
value.
Because we tend to be like, wekind of like play it safe.
We go in the corner, we sit onthe table, say I'm just
listening, no, listen and alsoadd value.
And people always call you back, dr Leah, when they see the
value.
They said, oh, her appearance,oh, my God, she adds so much
(13:39):
value.
So people always tend to run tothat.
So don't be hesitant at amidlife woman to sell promotion,
because not all the time yourwork speak for that and other
things.
I see I'm guilty of that, I'mstill doing it.
I try to reduce it as much as Ican.
We over-apologize, we use a lotof passive language.
(14:01):
And when we say, for example,he said, oh, let me help you, I
think I believe.
Don't think and believe, justsay shift that language.
Say I recommend, I recommend youto do this.
And when you are in 50 or, likeme, in mid-50s, say I recommend
(14:22):
I seen it.
When I tell a younger engineerin the team, I recommend you to
do this way, I'm mentoring thatyoung girl.
I'm not saying that because Iread that time that lines in a
book.
It's not just reading book,I've been in it, I've been
through it right.
So we need to kind of becareful about our language.
(14:45):
We need to choose the word.
They teach us at the coachingschool said always try to tweak
or change the negativeconnotation to something more
powerful.
So when people come to you sayI'm old, I say no, you are wise.
(15:06):
Oh, I am not able.
No, you are facing challenges.
Don't say problems, saychallenges.
So we need to watch ourlanguages in order to come
across someone with skills andmore wisdom.
Dr. Leah OH (15:21):
Yes, yes, I love that.
I was thinking you know, if Ijust watched a YouTube video and
I think this is how I fix mysink at home, because you know I
have self-efficacy, I can say Ithink that.
But when I'm in a meeting andsomeone's asking me for
leadership advice, I recommendwhat I've learned, what I've
studied, what I've found.
Sairan Aqrawi (15:41):
Yes, thank you very much.
Exactly Because it's come froma place of experience and skills
.
You have not accumulated thisfrom reading a book or, like you
said, watching a YouTube.
That doesn't make you an expert, yep, that doesn't make you an
expert, right.
Dr. Leah OH (15:59):
Exactly so.
Let's look a little more aboutcommunication, and I'm sure this
is a conversation you've hadwith many of your clients.
But how do you recommend so?
If women at this stage of theircareers, how do they
effectively communicate theirvalue and experience in a way
that resonates with youngergenerations and leadership teams
(16:21):
?
And I mean, you've kind ofhinted at this, but if you have
anything else that you kind ofgo to and helping women navigate
this, we'd love to hear it.
Sairan Aqrawi (16:30):
Yeah, I mean, I face that in both places, in my
house and at work.
I mean, effective communicationis such a crucial.
Communication is very important.
I do it at home with two kids.
123, 121, new generation, allapps, all AI.
Everything's quick, quick,quick, right.
Most of the stuff that Ilearned in Instagram I learned
(16:53):
it from my daughter when she was18 or 19.
So imagine, and when it's comeas you as a midlife leader, you
can make that bridge between youand the new generation by a
couple of things.
First of all, not judging thembecause they are younger.
They come with a lot ofintelligence.
(17:15):
Also, they bring brilliantideas.
So you kind of want to buildthat bridge about adopting.
Adoption is very important.
It's like I always ask mydaughter what is the new things
you are doing?
Please teach me a little bit.
Because they are in technologywise, they are ahead of us.
But by us adding value to them,not to judge them, we can just
(17:36):
come to say the new generationoh, I done all of that by hand.
Now we're doing it in an appthat's dumb.
Don't, don't use those labels,because they're gonna ship back.
They're not gonna likecommunication with you.
You have to say, oh, my god, oh, there is an app for that, oh,
there is a uh, microsoft tools,oh, there's an excel sheet.
Can you teach me that so kindof like building that
(18:00):
appreciation and acknowledgementto them?
And also what is effect a lotespecially I do it at home and
at work storytelling.
Storytelling is such a powerfultool, dr Leah, because you're
kind of sharing your insightwith them.
By your previous experience.
You said, oh my God, you remindme about myself when I was in
(18:23):
college.
I face the same thing, but youknow what's worked for me.
You know, the first timesomeone asked me to do this kind
of storytelling.
You add a little bit of fun,you add a little bit of sense of
humor.
And what do they say?
Fact tells story self.
Right, the fact tells storyself because the story, even
when you give a speech and whenyou associate story with it,
(18:46):
people will still remember thatstory from you.
Dr. Leah OH (18:48):
Mm, hmm, yeah, I really like that.
I'm thinking too, you're kindof tying in some of that reverse
mentoring, where it becomesmutually beneficial across the
generations, where if they'rehelping you with an app and then
you're seeing them, you cangive them some political insight
that they likely are unaware of, or other elements that have
(19:11):
come with your experiences thatthey haven't yet kind of grown
on their own.
Sairan Aqrawi (19:17):
Yes, yes, yeah, reverse mentorship.
It reminds me about I think itwas an article written by Robert
Tureen.
He's a famous author, americanauthor.
He talked about people ask himwhat is the road for success?
I think one line.
I hope I'm putting it right.
He said there is no shortcut tosucceed, but one of the
(19:39):
shortcuts he can say it's one ofthem is mentorship.
You need a mentor, you need amentor, you need a coach.
And a lot of people, dr Leah,come to you and said, oh,
mentorship is accessory, coachis an accessory.
I'm here to tell you is not?
I'm a certified ACC.
I have clients.
I have my own coach which I paydouble than what client pay me,
(19:59):
because I want to scale my game.
I don't want to stay in thesame level as a coach.
I want you, when you see me infive years, said wow, she's in
different level, so I'm notgoing to be in that different
level if I don't have a coachmyself.
So mentorship, it's soessential and it's a two-way
street, like when I mentoryounger engineers.
Like when I mentor youngerengineers who said I don't learn
(20:22):
from them.
I do, I do learn from them.
I passed them 25 years, sothey're picking up a lot of
things that didn't come acrossme as a professional engineer.
So mentoring it's veryimportant, it's not an accessory
.
Dr. Leah OH (20:39):
Yes, and Seiran, I think I can say with complete
confidence that you'll beleveled up before five years,
thank you, thank you, dr.
Yes, and say, ron, I think Ican say with complete confidence
that you'll be leveled upbefore five years, thank you,
thank you, dr.
Sairan Aqrawi (20:47):
Yes.
Dr. Leah OH (20:48):
So let's think about shifting priorities
because we know that for manywomen, especially during midlife
, there might be a shift in adesire for more fulfilling work.
So with this kind of questionit's a multi-part one, but just
thinking about how do we eitherarticulate this if we think our
current employer, if there'ssome capacity for us to take on
(21:11):
different projects, and ifthat's not the case, if we find
ourselves kind of looking at anew career path at this point in
life, what strategies do youhave?
Sairan Aqrawi (21:24):
Very good question.
And that's go back to the nicheI have in my business finding
your hidden gem or hidden talent.
Here I am engineer withtechnology skills doing
engineering and look at mybusiness have nothing to do with
technology, it's to emotionalintelligence.
So, basically, what I did, Iarranged marriage between IQ and
EQ.
(21:44):
So my IQ is all.
I have to be precise andconcise.
I have to solve the equationwith no mistake, because every
number is going to make a fatalproblem right.
I'm designing building bridgesor sanitary sewer or water
service.
These are all precise andconcise calculation.
When it's come to my business,I shift my mind.
(22:08):
So it's like IQ.
I left the IQ at the day joband I deal with the EQ because
when I do coaching andmentorship, I put all my soul
and energy in it, because that'sexactly what is my hidden gem,
that's exactly what I enjoy.
And my message to your audienceor any woman in midlife, or
(22:28):
leadership you don't have tokeep what doesn't add joy to
your life.
And I'll give you an example.
You might have client PhDdegree.
She's teaching elite, you knowIvy League, making a lot of
money.
But she comes to me and I lookat her LinkedIn, amazing.
(22:48):
Oh my God, all the paper, allthe podcasts, all the interviews
she does.
But she comes not happy, andwhen you ask her she said I have
a PhD degree.
I have wonderful kids.
They are both well-behaved,great degree and, you know,
well-established.
My husband is wonderful.
I have a $5 million house,financially very comfortable.
(23:11):
Then why you are here and theytell you I feel numb.
It's like numb, going to workevery day, coming home fixed
dinner, sleep, next day, thesame thing.
So there is lack of joy andthere is also you feel like
their soul is sad, their energysleeps, it's like they're only
(23:36):
numb and the soul is deadBecause all they are doing
they're just going to work, pickup the paycheck and come home.
And my advice to go back toyour question, dr Leah no way
I'll come to that client and say, with your PhD degree, teaching
school, you like painting, justpaint.
That's not ideal right andthat's not logic.
(24:00):
First of all, she's established.
She studied so many years, shepaid all those bills, she
established a quality life forher family.
She's not going to quit all ofthat because her hidden gem is
painting.
No, what I'm asking that clientis celebrate what you have If
you love to paint.
You're doing things by yourhand knitting, you're writing,
(24:23):
you're speaking, you're fixingthings by hand.
There is a lot of guys fix,make table.
You see their pieces likeantique, right.
And if you have that skill,make it a side heaven or haven.
I call my business.
I don't call my business sidehustle.
There is no hustle in my sidebusiness.
(24:44):
My side business is side heavenor haven Because when I go
there I don't feel a time andeffort.
I love it, I'm just deep, deepdive inside like I'm swimming in
the swimming pool right.
So, for those women who see thattheir job is not really
(25:05):
fulfilling them with joy.
I tell them midlife is the time, Because midlife is the perfect
time to align your work with apurpose.
If you don't align your workwith purpose, there is no joy.
Dr. Leah OH (25:20):
Yeah, I really love that and I think too I was
listening and thinking aboutespecially in the US we have
this live-to-work mentality andit sounds like it's helpful to
flip it to the work-to-live Like.
I work just to support thislife, but recognizing that's one
small part of a much fullerlife.
Sairan Aqrawi (25:41):
Life is so full of a much fuller life.
Life is so full and if midlifewomen know how much left you'd
rather to have that alignmentand discovery in your 50 that
you never have it and you dieand you keep saying, oh, I wish
if I, I wish if I.
That's so painful, but if youget that alignment and
realization when you are 50,you're going to have 20 years
(26:04):
more quality living on yourdream and your side business,
nothing being wasted.
There is nothing wrong that youwent to school for law or for
IT or for medical for 25 years.
Nobody said that was wrong.
But when you hit your midlife,this is your time to rebirth.
This is your time to shine andvivid color Life is still on.
(26:27):
You don't have just to be anemployee.
You can create, you can addvalue, you can leave an impact.
Dr. Leah OH (26:34):
Oh, it's so powerful.
So let's think about networkingnow.
And so we know there's thislong storied history that's
telling us how importantnetworking is, and we know it's
important, we have the researchto support that, but we also
know it can be very awkward,especially for introverts.
So I'm wondering what your toptips are for midlife women who
(26:56):
are either seeking to build thisnetwork, if they haven't yet,
or maintain it.
Sairan Aqrawi (27:03):
Seeking to build this network if they haven't yet
or maintain it.
I love the question.
So networking is essential,just like communication.
I mean.
When I say networking, peoplethink, oh, just attend anything
you've been invited to.
Oh, you're invited to a womenempowerment, you're invited to
educational event at theuniversity, which is fine At the
beginning.
If you are just starting thisand you want to master
(27:27):
networking, there is nothingwrong to attend to a couple of
those in the beginning, just totest the water, to see what do
you really, what do you align to, what is your energy falling
into?
My advice is if you've beeninvited, you respect the person
who invite you, thank them.
So thank you for inviting me.
But if you enter that room andyou, you will feel it there is
(27:51):
no mutual energy exchangebetween you and the subject.
It's all about politics, it'sall about religion.
You are and you you areprofessional.
You don't need to be in placesthat doesn't belong to you.
And it's not rude to tell theperson who invited you to that
religion or politics, whatevernetwork, and say thank you so
(28:14):
much.
I really enjoy, you know, 10minutes, 20 minutes, but I'm
afraid I have to leave because Ihave another commitment.
So you attended just forrespect, but for next time, you
know now that platform is allabout those two subjects, so you
can avoid it, right?
So any network, dr Leah, if youfeel doesn't add value to you
(28:38):
and you don't add value to it,don't go, because it's a two-way
street, right?
So if I go to a network, let'ssay, you invite me to STEM.
There's a lot of youngerengineers there.
I'm like, oh, Dr Leah, this isbeautiful.
It reminds me about me when Iwas young and all of that.
I come to that STEM and I starttalking with those younger
(28:58):
engineers.
Oh, my God, oh, you're doingthis, You're going to do master.
Oh, you know Dr Leah too.
Yes, she invited me.
So there is like a communicationback and forth and I add value
to that younger girl because I'mmentoring her, I'm telling her
what's really worth, what's comeafter her study as a master
(29:18):
engineer, what's real life inengineering.
So I'm adding value and thereis a mutual communication,
that's.
I can go back again If youinvite me next year for the same
STEM event.
I'm going to come because I seethat energy exchange right and
networking to me.
I have a strong belief itshould not be only about you
(29:43):
doing transaction and check,check, check.
Oh, I know Dr Leah, she's goingto make me appear in her
podcast.
I know Dr who is.
It doesn't work like that.
It should be more aboutbuilding rapport and also having
deep conversation, Because whenI come to this network, I need
to learn something from you.
Dr. Leah OH (30:05):
If.
Sairan Aqrawi (30:05):
I'm just here to have a crowd and having the free
lunch or dinner.
What is that?
You don't want to kill yourtime this way.
You want to really utilize yourtime.
You are in midlife Time is goldright.
You want to really utilize thattime in a way that's adding
(30:25):
value to others and add value toyourself.
Dr. Leah OH (30:29):
Yeah, I really love that.
I've never thought aboutnetworking as so reciprocal.
It kind of felt more like ato-do, and I think, too, that
idea of shifting the focus tosomething more concrete, like
building rapport and making itabout depth rather than shaking
every hand in the room, is avery, very helpful one.
Sairan Aqrawi (30:49):
Yes, yes, definitely, definitely.
You don't need to be liked andclapped every time you appear
anywhere.
It's not about you, that'sattention syndrome.
We all have that ego Aftercertain years.
I am whoever Look at my LinkedIn, who cares?
Right?
There's a lot of importantpeople that are very humble and
(31:10):
they appear on those and younever know.
They are millionaires or theyare entrepreneurs or they are
philanthropists.
They do a lot of great things.
They never show it this way,but if you feel you don't belong
, just leave in a dominant anddiplomatic way, yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (31:27):
Very helpful.
So, thinking about syndromes,let's think about imposter
syndrome, and this is one weknow we can experience it at any
point in our career and I know,as a leadership communication
scholar, I have a lot of womenwho say this really came up when
I got that manager role or thatdirector role.
So, sivran, how do you helpwomen combat that self-doubt and
(31:53):
learn to communicate theiraccomplishments, their abilities
, with confidence?
Sairan Aqrawi (32:01):
Yes.
So the imposter syndrome, it'sjust like the obstacle and the
challenges we talk about.
I will not only me.
No one can come to you and say,oh, there is a manual, there is
a book.
You follow one, two, three andthe imposter syndrome will go
away Again.
(32:21):
Not, those things doesn't goaway.
You just learn how to handlethem in a better way.
Right, I can't come because I'mI have confidence.
I said I have confidence I canspeak tomorrow for our audience
50,000.
And I never spoke before.
You will still be nervous to be,to be in that stage.
(32:43):
You still be be nervous.
You're still going to staynervous before any podcast.
You're still going to benervous for your next promotion,
next interview, the the way howI handle that, have handled
that nervousness.
I make it kind of likeexcitement, like when last week
one of my clients she said oh, Isee you, you speaking at
(33:03):
Richmond for the Women's Summit.
Are you nervous?
I said, in reality I am, butI'm not going to say it.
I'm going to say I'm excited.
So again, I'm tweaking the word.
Right, that's number one.
Number two for the emergingleader, or younger girls who
want to be supervisor, managerand leader at your job.
I always tell them don't seekthat perfectionist.
(33:25):
No one is perfect, right.
But if you accomplish a win ora small achievement, have like a
log, say, oh, within six monthsI learned three software.
That's a win.
So little by little yourimposter syndrome go away
because you see, like in Januaryyou were all scared about those
(33:46):
three software, but by June youare mastering those three
software.
Now you're teaching others thatsoftware.
So that's imposter syndrome willsleep because I was scared.
Now it's down because I learnedhow to do it.
So basically, the antidote forthat syndrome is action.
(34:07):
It's only action, because I'mstill scared If you keep telling
me say, ron, I wish, if youcome to my podcast and I keep
telling Dr Leah, I'm so scared,oh my God, I'm intimidated, I'm
not going to be fit for yourpodcast.
But if I take action, if I showup with all the flaws and all
(34:27):
the shortening that I have, myaccent or whatever, I will not
match your knowledge here, butjust by me showing up and adding
value to your podcast, myimposter syndrome went away
because I took action.
That's the only way you can getrid of it.
Dr. Leah OH (34:46):
And when you were just saying that, I love that
idea of action as the answer,Because with imposter syndrome
we feel stuck, right, it canfeel like a paralysis and it's
easy to remain stuck.
But it's that one step, thatlittle bit of action, like you
said, the goal setting inJanuary and saying, oh wow, I
(35:07):
did this.
I was so afraid of thesesoftwares and now I'm teaching
others.
Sairan Aqrawi (35:11):
Yes, you take the move.
I think Tony Robinson said itin one of his interviews.
He said when you feel stuck,like you said, Dr Leah, it's the
best thing to do is to stand upand just move your body.
It's like you interrupt, youdisrupt the thinking, you
disrupt the chain.
So you stand up and you moveyour hands and your legs.
And he's right, Because whenyou sit and you're comfortable,
(35:33):
he said oh my God, I can't dothis, I'm really stuck.
But if you stand up and you dosomething, you kind of like
disrupt the thinking, right, thenegative thinking.
You're going to get out of thatcycle.
Dr. Leah OH (35:44):
Disrupt the thinking right, the negative
thinking.
You're going to get out of thatcycle?
Yeah, exactly.
And so I want to talk aboutmentorship again, and I know
we've already touched on thisthat I think we can't
underestimate how much thismeans, you know, at any point in
our career.
But I think, as you've beensaying, there's a special
function it can play for amidlife woman in empowering them
(36:05):
.
So can you give us a littlemore insight or anything you
haven't already had the chanceto add about kind of the role of
mentorship for an empoweringmidlife women, both as the
mentor but also as a mentee?
Sairan Aqrawi (36:20):
Yes, I don't know if you looked at my LinkedIn
page that the platform or thearea that I mentor at not
necessarily that old technology,although that's my background.
So I did mentor at Women inTechnology.
I mentor at Women inEngineering at George Washington
University.
I mentor at ACEC.
(36:41):
They are all engineers.
But I also try to mentor someyounger women who are just
seeking clarity, Because we aswomen, even when we are younger
age, we always have that belief.
We have to figure it out all bytheory.
Why?
Who said that?
Is there a book saying that oh,I got married, I have to have
(37:06):
babies right away, I have to getmy master right away, I have to
buy a house my American dream.
I have my bills off?
Who said there is no manual andrules telling you 31 is the
best age or 32 is the best ageto doing your master or having a
baby.
You go with the flow and you gowith what's best for you.
So that's where mentorshipcomes the flow and you go with
what's best for you.
So that's where mentorshipcomes.
Very essential and it's veryhandy, Because when you have a
(37:30):
mentor, it's a guidance.
I'm not going to tell theyounger engineer oh, I did it
this way.
You should do it my way.
That's not mentorship, right?
Mentorship is like I'm holdingthe flashlight.
I'm just going to say, hey,this is what you're doing.
I'm holding the flashlight,it's adding more light to the
path.
It's adding more light and aguidance.
And if that lady challenged me,she's 23 and I'm in my 50s she
(37:55):
said I don't think.
So I said then I don't thinkyou are a good fit as a mentee
because I'm not telling you whatto do.
I am guiding you to the rightpath, right?
So it's up to you.
It's all inner work, if youwant to take it in and do your
homework.
Great.
If you are here to kind of likechallenging who's ahead of you
(38:17):
25 years, that's a differentstory.
We are competing here, right,but I have to be honest with you
, dr Leah.
Among all the mentorship I did,I benefit a lot in both ways.
I benefit when I've beenmentored and I benefit when I
was mentoring others and what Idid after I shut down my old
(38:40):
platform in September 2023, Ichanged my niche from transition
expert to a business strategist.
I had women mentor before andthey were amazing, amazing women
mentor Women, women to women.
They were nice to me.
Oh my God say Ron, you change alot.
We see you're scaling up here.
(39:01):
You are better than five yearsago.
I say you know what?
This time I'm going to have aman mentoring me, and a man has
nothing to do with engineering.
So I had one of those mentors,amel.
He was, I think, late 70 andretired pilot.
Look at him.
There is no relation between meand him, right, but his first
(39:23):
perspective came out to me sofresh and challenging because he
was a military guy, pilot andall orders and here I am the
lady with equation, right, andhe was a male.
He was looking at other thingsthat other women mentors didn't
see, things that other womenmentors didn't see.
(39:49):
So I benefit from both.
I benefit from both perspectivebecause they add certain things
and actually they, they uh,point out things that I never
thought about and never thoughtabout.
I have one of the mentor, um,from Illinois.
She was telling me oh, my God,you do have sense of humor, I
would use it more.
And I was like, okay, I'm anengineer, I have to look all
(40:09):
bold and rigid and all serious,and I don't.
I literally don't blink at thestaff meeting, like if I'm with
other engineers I don't blinkbecause I look.
So you know, like oh in her, youknow in her uh space and she
know what she's talking about.
She said no, say you don't haveto.
We have to add a little bitflavors, like salt to the food.
(40:32):
You have sense of humor, justuse it.
So mentorship it's essential inboth ways.
If you are mentoring or you'vebeen, mentored and I love to.
Dr. Leah OH (40:42):
There's, I think, a certain maturity that someone
has to have when they arerecognizing that there's
something to learn from everyoneand not saying you're the one
mentor I need or you're in thiscategory that I need, but
recognizing, you know, and theremight be points in our life
when we need someone who's justin one certain niche or certain
(41:05):
identity markers.
But I think too, when you kindof pull that curtain back and
recognize we are so different.
But that's what I really neednow.
I need, you know, someone toprovide insight in areas that I
don't see or I don't know.
Sairan Aqrawi (41:22):
You said we are so different.
It reminds me about something.
It's so true, even arelationship.
You see, you are a friend,close friend, with someone
totally different than you.
They are totally different ineverything.
And that's exactly when I metmy husband.
He is 100% different than me ineverything.
Dr. Leah OH (41:39):
Thanks God, he's not an engineer.
Sairan Aqrawi (41:41):
I thank God every day.
He's not an engineer, becausetwo engineers in the house it's
a disaster.
But he's different than me ineverything His approach.
Literally, dr Leah, if we go toa furniture store and we see
two tables, only two tables,he's going to like the one that
I don't like.
It's totally different, but webecome such a good partner and a
(42:03):
wife and husband because allour approach is differently, and
and and.
going back to that mentorshippart also, I want to add one
more things, yeah, even people,when they they come across to
you being I'm saying I'm notgoing to use rude word- I'm
going to say unprofessional, andthey point something in you in
(42:23):
your LinkedIn or a comment inInstagram or Facebook or
whatever and doesn't come acrossprofessional, you benefit even
from that Because they arepointing to something.
You just brush it away.
You didn't give much value, butit's getting your enemy's
attention.
So you're like hmm, let me fixthat so it will not be a point
(42:46):
of attack next time.
So actually your enemies aredoing you a favor by mentioning
it because they are reallyviewing you vetting your
comments in a way, in a verycritical way, said hmm, I
thought this is not major, butI'm going to look into it.
So next time they have no othershort you know short area to
(43:06):
point at.
So everybody giving you acomment is beneficial.
Dr. Leah OH (43:10):
Yeah, I was just thinking about maturity and the
emotional intelligence, too thatit takes to be able to
interpret that as a gift in someways, even though it does not
feel like a gift momentrecognizing it's a place to grow
from.
(43:31):
Yes, yeah, definitely,definitely, yep.
So I have two final questionsfor you, seiran, and they're
connected.
So the way we end all episodesof the Communicative Leader is,
with this, really pragmatic.
It can be leadership,communication, tip, advice
challenge.
So the first part it is for ourtitle leaders out there, our
(43:54):
managers, our directors, oursupervisors, and then the second
part is kind of advice for allemployees across all ranks for
all employees, across all ranks.
Sairan Aqrawi (44:05):
Okay, so the first one.
What is my advice?
Dr. Leah OH (44:12):
to title leaders or managers.
Sairan Aqrawi (44:13):
Which is a big difference between a leader and
a manager.
Dr. Leah OH (44:16):
Managers making the projects.
That's true.
Sairan Aqrawi (44:17):
Finish leader, you have to be a role model.
You cannot be a leader if youare not a role model.
You cannot call yourself aneffective leader if you are not
doing all the ethics aspect ofit.
So if you want your team tofollow you, and by preaching,
telling them you did do it, youhave to do this.
I done it this way, do it myway or the highway.
That's a manager, that's not aleader.
(44:39):
So I feel like most of theleader with all respect, I, I
some, some of them when I meetthem during engineering meetings
.
Their LinkedIn profile isamazing Every credential you
think about in engineering,every degree, every
certification but, man, it's sodifficult to deal with them
(45:04):
because they are not activelisteners.
They come to this meeting, um,with their fancy linkedin title
he's a chief safety officer,director, chief engineer,
whatever it is and he thinks hecan just roll over all the style
without listening.
Basically, he is not givingspace to the audience, he just
(45:26):
see himself.
He come to the table and hesaid I'm a leader, I'm going to
make decision right.
There is no active listening,there is no communication skills
.
So I feel leaders they need tolisten more.
And if they are very impactfulreally and they are making
decisions.
(45:47):
They don't have to go all thetime at the beginning.
They don't need to give us thatspeech about how great they are
, how they closed these projectsbefore they are genius.
They've been skipped by ElonMusk.
They can be partnered with ElonMusk or whatever.
Fine, we saw your LinkedIn.
Guess what?
I'm not impressed.
(46:08):
First of all, you need to listento the audience.
You need to listen to theyounger engineers.
You need to give a space andmake your presence welcoming so
people can approach you forideas, for motivation, for, for,
(46:29):
for, for things that really, uh, make a shortcut at work,
benefit the whole team.
So when you create thatwelcoming environment, it's like
a family, same thing likeparenting.
I feel like a leader is a goodparent because if I am not
giving my kids that space tocome to me and telling me what's
(46:49):
happened in their day they havecertain challenges in the
college I'm not bringing them tomy circle, my trust you know,
circle of trust, right.
Same thing with leaders.
For title leaders, they need tolisten more and make an
environment, space, environment.
(47:10):
Include everyone and don'tjudge younger, emerging leaders
because they have a lot to offer.
Just give them a chance and letthem shine.
Let them shine.
The second part.
What did you say?
Advice to all.
Dr. Leah OH (47:27):
Yeah, so all employees across all ranks, all
industries, so the folks whoaren't in a titled leadership
position, what do you wish theyknew or were working on or
thoughtful of?
Sairan Aqrawi (47:43):
Yeah, that's a very important question For
anyone who's hearing us in thispodcast and who's trying to make
an impact or a difference.
First of all, they need to knowit's all on them, it's an
inside job.
Don't blame the society, don'tblame the election.
(48:03):
Don't blame the news.
Don't blame the election.
Don't blame the news.
Don't blame anyone.
It's you.
This is you versus you, right?
It's?
Dr. Leah OH (48:10):
not versus anybody else, it's an inside job and for
younger generation.
Sairan Aqrawi (48:16):
I feel that they always bring up the word of
confidence I'm not confident toapply for a manager, I'm not
confident to be a leader, I'mnot confident to be a supervisor
.
I always tell them the sameanswer you will never, ever gain
that confidence if you are notcompetent.
You have to gain the skills.
(48:36):
When we say confidence, actionbreeds confidence.
Always when you take action inyour skills, it breeds your
confidence and builds yourconfidence.
Always when you take action inyour skills, it breeds your
confidence and build yourconfidence.
So when you become confident, Igo back to the example I said
if I'm January, you're hiring meand you're giving me three
software that I'm scared todeath to learn them.
(48:57):
But if I learn them towardsJune and I become so master at
it to teach it to others, Ibuild my confidence by being
competent.
Because if I'm not competent,trust me, you go to that room.
The minute you show up in thatroom, people see it.
People see it.
It's not fake it until you makeit.
No, it's work it until you makeit.
(49:20):
You have to work and act on it.
It's action.
I can fake it inside, likebetween me, subconscious and
conscious.
That's different.
That's an inner voice, right.
But when I enter that room andthere is 50, 50 competent
engineers that I'm challengingtheir design, I better to be
done with my homework.
I better to know the book.
(49:42):
I better to know those codesfor structure and steel and
concrete and soil.
I'm not going to show up therejust because in my mid-50s and
I'm a smart engineer.
That doesn't work.
I have to be competent becauseevery single person in that
meeting will challenge me.
So by me not doing the homeworkand not having the facts, it's
(50:03):
an assumption all the time.
You need facts.
I think Rene Brown talked aboutit.
I heard Lyons say when you lackof data, you're making a lot of
assumptions.
Dr. Leah OH (50:15):
It's true, you go to those meetings, educational
medicine.
Sairan Aqrawi (50:20):
it doesn't matter .
If you have no facts.
You're making assumptions.
You need the data because youback up yourself, say I am
challenging you because manual16.1 says such and such.
Nobody can speak up and nobodywill bother you because they
know you are a woman with facts,with homework.
(50:41):
She did her stuff, she had herbullets clear, right, I'm not
challenging her.
And another advice for allemployees is be clear where
you're heading, clarity is power, dr Leah, without clarity.
I tell my client when they docomplimentary 30 minutes with me
.
I say, please, if you are notclear, don't hire me, because I
(51:05):
need you to be clear whereyou're heading.
If you're hiring me to buildyour confidence, don't talk
about losing weight in yoursession.
That has nothing to do with thegoal.
Don't mix them up.
You are here with clarity.
You need a clear path.
It's inside job.
Do it now, don't wait.
Anything you want to do for allthe audience, do it now, before
(51:28):
you are ready, don't wait yeahyou're right because you're
never ready, it's a punishment.
It's a punishment.
Don't take those dreams.
And if with you until the grave, don't take that.
If, if I wish, if I wish, no,do it now, before you are ready.
That's my advice to all.
Dr. Leah OH (51:48):
Yes, that is so, so helpful, and I'm thinking, too,
with your focus on competence.
I love that because it'stangible.
It's something I can actuallymap out a plan for, I can chart
my progress, whereas I say Iwant to become more confident.
That is this murky future,vague state that I'll never know
(52:11):
if I've reached it.
Sairan Aqrawi (52:13):
Yes, yes, definitely, definitely, yeah,
yeah, it's very important andclear.
And and know what you want.
You have to know.
Robert Greene talked about itin the Mastery book what is your
life purpose, what is your lifetask?
And in Mass, I think it'schapter one you call it life
task.
What is your task?
(52:34):
Don't brush it away.
You come to this world not justby making a paycheck and have a
nice house and throw aThanksgiving dinner.
That's not life.
That's everybody's routine, dayto day.
You are in this life to leave animpact and a purpose.
(52:55):
Your purpose is different thanmy purpose.
We complete the puzzles and wemake this coexisting.
We need to know what's ourimpact in order to leave a
legacy at us.
Dr. Leah OH (53:09):
So powerful.
Well, sivran, thank you forsharing your time with us, for
all of this wealth ofinformation that I know is going
to be really, really helpfulfor our leaders.
So again, thank you, and Iappreciate you.
Sairan Aqrawi (53:22):
Thanks to you, dr Leah.
I was honored to be in yourplatform and, for the sake of
your audience and giving a giftaway, I am willing to give away
anyone who mentioned your nameand your platform.
I am willing to give away 30minutes complimentary session.
If they want to scale theirLinkedIn or they want to start
(53:42):
something in a site, if theymention your name and your
platform, they will get thatcomplimentary 30 minutes.
Dr. Leah OH (53:50):
Oh, thank you.
I'll be sure to link all ofyour information.
Sairan Aqrawi (53:52):
Thank you so much .
Thank you, thank you for havingme.
Thank you.
Dr. Leah OH (53:57):
All right, my friends.
That wraps up our conversationtoday.
Until next time, communicatewith intention and lead with
purpose.
I'm looking forward to chattingwith you again soon on the
Communicative Leader.
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