Jimmy Cannon shares his transformative approach to voice work by merging vocal techniques with anxiety management strategies to help leaders communicate with confidence and authenticity. His Canon Method focuses on three key elements—voice, confidence, and presence—to help individuals overcome communication barriers and develop their authentic leadership voice.
• Exploring how the voice connects to our nervous system through the vagus nerve and diaphragm
• Using elongated vowels and longer phrases to reduce anxiety when speaking
• Practicing proper diaphragmatic breathing to improve vocal control and presence
• Understanding the importance of pausing strategically to create space for impact
• Identifying common vocal pitfalls like monotone delivery and limited pitch range
• Learning to use different vocal registers to match your communication intent
• Expanding beyond your comfort zone through consistent practice in real situations
• Embracing authenticity by aligning your voice with your core values and purpose
• Using your voice as a leadership tool to command attention and respect
If you're interested in working on your voice, confidence, and presence, try incorporating strategic pauses in your communication and explore different tones of voice for different situations. Remember that your voice is an instrument that can accentuate your personality and help you achieve your goals.
Hey leader! Thanks for listening. For more leadership communication tips, check out https://www.thecommunicativeleader.com/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dr. Leah OH (00:00):
Welcome to another episode of the Communicative
Leader.
I'm your host, dr Leah oh, andtoday we're excited to introduce
you to Jimmy Cannon, atransformative voice expert who
seamlessly merges voice workwith anxiety management
strategies to redefineleadership communication.
Jimmy's distinctive approachoffers fresh perspectives on
(00:21):
overcoming public speakinganxiety and really mastering the
art of vocal delivery.
Through his innovative Canonmethod, he has empowered
countless individuals to harnesstheir voice, conquer their
nerves and cultivate aleadership presence that really
inspires and connects.
In today's episode, we'llexplore key topics such as why
(00:42):
your voice might be your mostunderutilized leadership tool
and how subtle vocal shifts candramatically enhance your
influence.
Jimmy uncovers the common vocalpitfalls that undermine
confidence and guides us throughpractical techniques so we can
sound more authoritative andimpactful.
If you're ready to elevate yourcommunication skills and
(01:05):
leverage your voice as aleadership superpower, this
episode is packed withinsightful strategies.
Let's have some fun.
Hello and welcome to theCommunicative Leader hosted by
me, Dr Leah Omilion- Hodges.
My friends call me Dr O.
I'm a professor ofcommunication and a leadership
(01:26):
communication expert.
On the Communicative Leader,we're working to make your work
life what you want it to be,jimmy.
Thank you for joining us on theCommunicative Leader.
We're so excited to have youtoday and I was hoping you could
start by sharing a bit aboutyour journey and how you came to
(01:46):
develop the Canon Method forMastering Voice and Managing
Anxiety.
Jimmy Cannon (01:51):
Hi, leah.
Thank you so much for allowingme on your podcast.
It's a pleasure to be here.
So that's a good question.
How did I start?
It's a long story.
I'll try to keep it short.
That's probably best, isn't it?
Otherwise, we'll be here forhours.
I'll try to keep it short.
That's probably best, isn't it?
Otherwise, we'll be here forhours.
So the Canon method is aboutthree things.
(02:14):
I've realized that when peoplecome to me about the voice, they
generally come to me sayingJimmy, I've got a weak voice,
I'm not being heard, I'mstruggling to cut through the
crowd, so it works.
But what I find is it's notjust the physiology of their
voice, it's not just the factthat they are speaking too
quietly, it's about thebehavioral environment, it's
(02:39):
about the psychology.
So there's three things that Ihelp people with, and it's a
holistic approach, which istheir voice, but also their
confidence and their presence.
So, voice and confidence andtheir presence.
Dr. Leah OH (02:59):
I love that.
I imagine that's kind of thetrifecta of, you know,
projecting, leadership andinfluence and connecting with
others, because they're allthose magic ingredients.
Jimmy Cannon (03:12):
That's it, absolutely.
Dr. Leah OH (03:14):
So, jimmy, you talk about the Canon Method and I
was hoping you could walk usthrough these core principles of
the Canon Method and kind ofhow you help individuals
transform their vocal presenceand also manage anxiety at the
same time yeah, well, it's it's.
Jimmy Cannon (03:31):
It depends on the individual and it depends on
what results they're looking for, but generally speaking, the
voice is an incredibly.
I mean, I'm hesitating and I'mputting a caveat out there in my
mind because I know and this ismy imposter syndrome coming
through probably as well is thatI know that you're an expert in
(03:52):
this and this is what you doand I obviously you know, you
know this.
So I'm just going to, I'm justgoing to put a caveat out there
that you probably a lot of thelisteners and yourself know all
about this as well.
Dr. Leah OH (04:05):
I'm just, I'm just going to sort of, you know um
spill everything as if, as ifyou didn't know you, you are the
expert we know a little aboutsome other things, but voice
jimmy, this is you okay, well,in that case, I uh then.
Jimmy Cannon (04:13):
Then I have the, I have the platform.
That's great, wonderful, yes,so, okay, fantastic, so.
So the voice is an incrediblypowerful thing.
It and one example is is that,as we, as we're elongating our
vowels, as we're lengthening ourphrase to to give you a very
simple example the, oursympathetic nervous system will
(04:38):
be told, via the diaphragm,which is linked directly to the
vagus nerve, that we can calmdown, we can reduce the anxiety,
we can mitigate thefight-flight response that we
might be having when we're in asituation where we might find
(05:01):
that we're feeling nervous oranxious to speak.
So, actually, by doing theopposite to what most people do,
which is avoid speakingentirely or freeze or pause or
stop speaking, actually the bestthing to do is to keep speaking
and make your words, to makeyour phrases much longer.
Now, to do that, you need tohave control over your
(05:24):
out-breath and then, therefore,you need control over your
in-breath, because if youhaven't got enough breath, then
you can't use the breath toelongate it in the first place.
So that one example is, for me,absolutely fascinating that, as
a doctor, you'll know thatthere is evidence and there is
(05:45):
research out there that atteststo the connection between the
vagus nerve and various areas ofthe body, such as the larynx,
the diaphragm, the abdomen, totell us that, actually, if we
can control the sympatheticnervous system, we can control
the, the signals that it'sgiving both our body and then,
(06:08):
vice versa, back to our mind tocontrol how we feel.
Dr. Leah OH (06:13):
You know, so that's fascinating, yeah you know,
it's so counterintuitive, Ithink that yeah because you're
right.
Your body is telling you bequiet, don't say anything, don't
embarrass yourself, and thebest thing you can do like
you're right, your body istelling you be quiet, don't say
anything, don't embarrassyourself, and the best thing you
can do, like you're saying, isto use your voice then, but it's
not easy?
Jimmy Cannon (06:32):
Yeah, no, absolutely you know.
I think the opposite to that is, if you are experiencing these
behavioral responses so you areavoiding certain situations,
then that's got to be dealt with.
So that's, that's really theconfidence issue.
That's that, that's the youknow, why are you avoiding the
(06:54):
scenario?
So what I do there with, withas well as the voice, so by
improving your vocal skills andyour, your, your instrument,
which is your voice, you're then, by definition and by factor,
going to be improving theconfidence and how you sound,
how you feel.
A lot of people say they hatethe sound of their voice.
They just don't speak upbecause they really can't stand.
(07:16):
So I help people with that, butalso I help people with the,
the psychological aspects aswell.
So I ended up studyingacceptance and commitment
therapy, which is I'm sureyou're aware of it, but if
you're not aware of it, then itcomes from rational frame theory
(07:36):
.
It's very similar to CBT, whichCBT very simply and I'm not an
expert in CBT reframes negativethoughts and puts them into
positive affirmations, which isfantastic, and there's thousands
of papers that celebrate that.
The act is something which isslightly different, which is
(07:59):
about recognizing or being awareof these negative thoughts that
are there and putting theputting the energy back onto
your uh, your values.
So, depending on what yourvalues are, then then the focus
is on that so committed actiontowards your values.
(08:20):
And the practice that I I helppeople with is present moment
exercises, so mindfulnessexercises to keep yourself in
the present moment, because weare constantly distracted and
fused with our negative thoughts, whether that be avoiding
speaking or it might be asomatic response.
(08:41):
Say, your larynx or vocal tractis very tight, so therefore
very strained, and it feels likeyou know you can't control, or
you might be getting distractedby something that somebody walks
into a meeting, they're lateand all of a sudden the whole
flow has just been dissipated soyou've got to come back and
recenter yourself.
(09:02):
So there's lots of exercisesthat you can do in the interim
period that help you in thatmoment.
Dr. Leah OH (09:12):
Yeah, that's a really helpful reminder and I
think something I imagine youfind in your work a lot of
people haven't really thoughtabout yet is the preparation
they can be doing and leading upto raising a hand or giving
that update in the meeting orwhatever that looks like.
So that's a really greatreminder, jimmy thank you very
(09:32):
much.
Jimmy Cannon (09:32):
I think the preparation is really.
Uh, my background is I'm sorryif I'm talking a lot here.
That's the idea, isn't it?
That?
Dr. Leah OH (09:39):
I'm no, you are my guest, please yes okay, is that
all right?
Jimmy Cannon (09:44):
I hate talking about myself.
This is a very difficult thingto do, isn't it?
Dr. Leah OH (09:48):
It is difficult, but thank you, it is difficult
my pleasure.
Jimmy Cannon (09:51):
It's an absolute pleasure.
I'm passionate about what I do,so, like you are, so it's very
easy to keep going, keep talking, but tell me the shush if you
need to.
That's absolutely fine.
So my background is performance, so my my background is singing
.
I also play saxophone as well,so preparation is absolutely key
.
Yes, and if you do have thetime, you know I tell my clients
(10:13):
all the time to send me videosof them practicing and I can
give them feedback, etc.
So it's really important thatyou have this consistent
practice, that that you're doingand and.
So, to give you an example,really, really simple but
effective thing to do is, if youare working on a pitch or
presentation, then, rather thanI mean something that I used to
(10:35):
teach my students all the timerather than go from the
beginning and and and start atthe beginning and then keep, you
know, keep going through ituntil the end and then just keep
repeating that Work on the bitthat you're not very familiar
with, work on the section thatyou're not that confident with,
and really get that right andparaphrase.
So change it up a little bit,mix it up.
(10:55):
You know, for instance, there'sa most heightened time of
anxiety is 60 seconds beforeyou're about to speak.
So it's that you know whenyou're waiting to be introduced.
Or you're waiting on a Zoomcall.
You know that you're going tobe speaking about your topic,
you've got some data to sharewith the rest of the team,
(11:17):
whatever it might be.
Or you're at a conference andyou've got the headset in and
someone says to you right, okay,five seconds, jimmy, jimmy,
five seconds.
That point, or just before thatpoint, that's the most
heightened bit of anxiety, right?
So you know this is a.
This is a big challenge.
So, instead of a difficult, ifyou've got a, if you've got a
conference or you're doing a tedtalk, or and then it's
(11:37):
absolutely planned word for word, but if you've got a meeting or
you've got a workshop or you'vegot something that you're doing
, that you can change aroundslightly instead of going into
your intro, why not ask somequestions?
So do maybe do a q a at thebeginning, so you're taking the
pressure off the beginning assoon as you know, right?
So as soon as you know and theyou, as soon as you get used to
(12:02):
the environment, the acousticenvironment of the room, the
personalities in the room, youcan feel a lot more settled more
present, and then, as soon asyou've had some, you know what,
leah, I've got a question.
Hey, great, what's the question?
Okay, blah, blah, blah, and thenyou answer the question and
then, all of a sudden, you'vebroken the ice.
(12:24):
You're having a wonderfulconversation and you answer the
question, and then, all of asudden, you've broken the ice.
You're having a wonderfulconversation and you know.
So that's just one little sortof tip that I always give my
clients.
Dr. Leah OH (12:32):
Yeah, that's so helpful too, and I think, too,
an audience appreciates that,because we're spoken at so often
.
But to actually immediately beintegrated is something that we
welcome, absolutely, absolutelyyeah.
Jimmy Cannon (12:49):
So it's an incredibly effective way to
manage that anxiety at the time.
So, with presence, there's alot of literature on presence
and I come from the PatsyRodenberg school of thought,
(13:09):
which is that we create thespace, we fill the space, we use
the space that we're in A lotof the time and I'll give you an
example In England.
This is a strange example, butin England we don't have a lot
of space.
I, I happen to live in a quitea rural area.
So if you're, um, if you're inthe states, then generally if
(13:32):
you're in a big city, you're,you know, you've got a lot of
room and and you can, you canuse that space that you're in.
But in england, especially ifyou're in london, which I lived
for 30 odd years, you know youdon, you don't have it on the
tube.
We call it the tube right onthe tube.
It's very, very small.
Nobody wants to put their headabove the parapet, so we're very
(13:53):
.
There's a lot of sort of how canI?
Sort of false humility.
I suppose there's a selfdeprecation, right, it's kind of
a classic cliche of Englishpeople.
So I'm not suggesting thatevery american is, is, has that
also has that stereo, theopposite stereotype, but the,
the, the idea of getting onstage or or taking up that space
(14:16):
is frowned upon to a degree,especially in the education
system.
So I, I grew up in a, in astate education system, and it
was sort of frowned upon if youhad a bit of um, what did my
clients um, he's, uh, he, one ofmy clients is, is, uh, is
hebrew, and he what?
Um, what's the?
I'm trying to think of the wordhe used.
(14:37):
Is it schmutz or or what's thephrase?
I can't think of what it iscalled.
Oh, come to me, what's that?
Chutzpah, chutzpah, chutzpah.
Dr. Leah OH (14:49):
Yeah.
Jimmy Cannon (14:51):
So not everybody's got that chutzpah.
Dr. Leah OH (14:54):
Yes, and I think it should be.
Jimmy Cannon (14:55):
I think we should encourage this.
I think we should encouragethis chutzpah and the space that
you create when you're speakingor whatever environment that
you're in.
So I think finding that spaceand using that space and
breathing into that space is areally important thing to be
able to do.
Dr. Leah OH (15:13):
Yeah, yeah, you're right, and let's dive more into
voice, because I imagine thatcan also help us feel more at
home in a space.
And I know that you talk aboutvoice as an underutilized
leadership tool, and I couldn'tagree with you more.
And I was hoping, jimmy, youcould kind of elaborate on some
of these vocal elements liketone, rhythm, projection.
(15:36):
How do these elements shape theway that others perceive us?
Jimmy Cannon (15:42):
Sure, well, okay, the first thing is that we, our
voice, is an immediate tool forconnection, immediate way of
people judging you in, in, in,in, either in a positive or
negative way.
So if you have a particularlyquiet voice, or weak voice, or
you have a harsh voice, forinstance, then and I'm, I'm, I'm
(16:04):
purposely doing this now, soI'm, I'm softening my tone, so
I'm thinking right, okay, how amI going to appeal to most of
the listeners out?
I'm not doing this maliciously,right, I'm just doing it as an
example, and but by justwidening the tone of your voice,
making as warm as and as a andchesty as possible.
We have seven areas ofresonance in the voice and we
(16:27):
can access those, and we can.
What we're looking for is awhat's called a balanced
phonation.
So that depends on yourphysiology, so it depends on the
shape of your larynx, but,excuse me, the one way to, to
appeal to to most people is tohave a balanced tone and that
(16:48):
means that you're, you know, andthat's very much dependent on
how you feel about your voiceand how other people listen to
your voice.
What's really interesting, Ithink, is that we, a lot of us
I've mentioned this before but alot of us hate the sound of our
voice, but actually what wehear is not what other people
hear, okay, so what we hear is abinaural effect of which is in
(17:14):
the head cavity, and so theresonance in the head cavity,
going through our auditorysystem, our ears, is what we
hear as we speak.
And especially, you know, you're, you're listening to me with
headphones, right?
So I'm going through thismicrophone.
Okay, I'm going through amicrophone, and that's being
analog signal to digital signalbeing converted to your ears.
(17:37):
That's already been manipulatedin that zone, right?
So even if you were here inthis room, in this space, what
you'd actually be listening tois the first reflection of the
sound coming out of my mouth,from the first wall that it hits
, and that's what you hear,which is slightly different to
(18:00):
what I'm hearing as my voice.
So just to know, that is areally good start.
So back to your question, whichI've forgotten completely.
It's about how do you use toneof voice, pace, pause.
Dr. Leah OH (18:11):
Yeah, just some of these vocal elements.
How do they shape others'perceptions?
Jimmy Cannon (18:16):
Yeah, sure, okay, interesting.
How do they shape others'perceptions?
Well again, quiet voice, harshvoice People are going to be
judging you on the tonality ofyour voice.
So if you're somebody thatspeaks far too quickly, if you
don't use pace, pause.
If you've got a particularlyaggressive or uh, feral or alpha
(18:38):
male type voice, maybe you'vegot a voice that, unfortunately,
if you're female, a lot, of, alot of um, female speakers speak
in by by.
Naturally they speak in theirhead voice, so they're very high
and they're not taken seriously, so their credibility is lost.
So I work with a lot of womenthat want to find more of a sort
(19:01):
of a deeper sounding voice to,and unfortunately, the research
shows that people with a deeper,more mellifluous sounding voice
are respected more.
Their credibility is noted, andit's just a shame that in this
culture that we're in, that isthe case.
I also think that AI issomething I've been thinking
(19:24):
about recently and obviouslythis at the moment it's on
everybody's ears.
I think AI is going to changethe way we communicate vastly,
in that people are going to needto be heard even more, so their
(19:51):
voice is going to need to beable to communicate.
Through our voice, our desires,our message, etc.
Dr. Leah OH (20:01):
Yeah, that's so helpful, and I know that you can
see voice as one of yourleadership superpowers.
And I'm wondering, in yourexperience and maybe some things
you've heard from clients, iswhy do you think people
initially overlook the power ofvoice and then the second part
is then what can we do to startusing our voice more effectively
(20:24):
, especially if we want to beseen as a leader?
Jimmy Cannon (20:27):
Yeah, okay, well, I'll answer the latter, if I may
.
The way we can use our voice Ithink predominantly I'm sort of
counterintuitive actually is tolisten, is to pause, is to
create space.
So find the space, fill thespace and use that space to
(20:55):
create a connection to theperson that you're speaking to
or the group of people thatyou're speaking to.
Pausing is a very, verydifficult thing to do.
It's very challenging forpeople that are nervous, people
that don't have the confidenceto speak up and speak for a long
period of time, particularly togroups of people.
So by taking a breath and usingthat pause is really, really
effective.
So, leadership wise, I think, Ibelieve that saying less is
(21:18):
more, very similar to music andhow that space to really compose
, if you like, what you're goingto say.
(21:38):
So by listening, by taking thebreath to show that you're
listening and then to use thatspace in an effective way to
speak in a very efficient andsimple prose.
Dr. Leah OH (21:53):
Yeah.
Jimmy Cannon (21:54):
I think that's the answer.
I couldn't agree more.
You're right.
Dr. Leah OH (21:57):
That's yeah, that's the.
You know, the longer I've beenresearching and hosting this
podcast, the more the simplestadvice is the most effective.
Nine out of 10 times.
Jimmy Cannon (22:11):
Yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (22:16):
Because it works right.
And I think too, even whenwe're looking at our voice as a
leadership superpower,recognizing that if we're not
listening and engaging inmeaningful ways, it doesn't
matter how our tone is or howour pauses are, if they're not,
you know, connecting with ouraudience pauses are, if they're
not, you know, connecting withour audience absolutely.
Jimmy Cannon (22:36):
And I think I think, as leaders and and you
know, people that want to be inthat field, in that industry or
not in in that sort of vet, youknow how would I, how would I
put it in that dome, if you likewe want, you know, we want our
leaders to go from the otherperspective, to respect other
people.
We want to be respected, wewant to feel that we're listened
(22:58):
to and appreciated, and I thinkthat's really, really key for
leaders to have that lessauthoritative or less doctoral
approach to speaking.
I think that's really, reallykey.
Dr. Leah OH (23:14):
Agreed.
So, jimmy, let's think aboutsome vocal pitfalls, and you
kind of mentioned that many highperformers might inadvertently
undermine their own confidencethrough different vocal patterns
.
So I was hoping you could kindof walk us through what are some
common vocal pitfalls, and thenhow do we identify them in
(23:37):
ourselves and course correct?
Jimmy Cannon (23:39):
Yeah.
So I think the biggest pitfallis to I'm trying to do this now.
The opposite way is to producea monotone sounding voice.
Right, it's a bit of a cliche.
I have basically a voice thatis repetitive, whether it's
monotone as in one pitch, and,to give an example, if I'm
(24:02):
speaking on a monotone sort ofvoice, it would be something
like this and if I'm speakingfrom the throat and it sounds a
little bit tired and too shouty,then it would be something like
this and that sort of that sortof sound.
After a while the person who'sall the group who's listening is
going to tune out, they'regoing to switch off, right.
So we need to vary the threesort of um pillars, if you like,
(24:24):
of the voice for me are pitch,dynamics and tone.
So I've spoken a little bitabout tone and I often work with
people with their pitch.
So we use roughly 20 percent ofour speaking voice that we can
(24:45):
dip into, we can, we can find.
So, generally speaking, there'sanother 80 percent or, you know
, nearly an octave.
So in musical terms, that'squite a lot that we can, you
know, we can dip into and use.
So that's really that's, Ithink, fascinating that we don't
(25:07):
use that and, generallyspeaking, because we're either,
depending on where you knowwhere we're from, what you know
what culture we're from, we areassigned a sort of a limitation,
like a threshold of pitch, ifyou like, when we're speaking, a
sort of a dialect of pitch.
So when I'm working with myclients, I really encourage them
to expand their pitch range.
(25:27):
So, instead of speaking on onelevel all the time and it's just
that drone going on this,particularly in middle-aged men
probably I'm doing a cliche, youknow a stereotype, but it's
very common, you know.
Thank you very much for coming.
I've got a few words to say anduh, then I'll leave you to it.
You know you're all doing verygood work.
Well done everyone.
That sort of sound, right, um?
(25:49):
I encourage you to reallyexplore a little bit lighter
sound maybe, and they can go alittle bit higher than they can
come down if they want to.
So having that, having that umcontrol or access to a much
higher uh pitch, now there'sjust very quickly we've got.
I mean, I could talk about thisall day, but we we have four
(26:12):
main registers in in our voice,so the low one is what's called
vocal creek and it can be alittle bit detrimental if you're
speaking in that uh, in thatway all the time.
It's sort of that creaky vocalfry, right.
So that's our, our lowestregister.
The next one is called modal one, which is in in old old terms
(26:38):
or old school terms, is yourchest voice.
So we, we generally speak inchest voice, most men speak in
chest voice, and then we've gotmodal two, which is our head
voice, most women speaking intheir head voice, and then we've
got whistle tone, which arereally just accessible for dogs
and Mariah Carey, and that's youknow, very, very, very high
(27:02):
tones that we probably wouldn'tget to.
But there is.
What's really interesting isthat between a chest or modal
one and modal two, which is ourhead voice, there's what's
called the passagia or thebridge, and that can create the
connection between the two.
You can blend the two voices.
So you can create and I'lldemonstrate now.
So it's this kind of voice herethat I'm using.
(27:22):
It's just to exaggerate thatI'm using this very sort of
mixed blend in the voice andsingers use it to create a very
sort of um, uh, giving examplewould be sort of marvin gay
singing, um, my girl talkingabout my girl, that sort of
(27:43):
sound, right, I'm not suggestingwe speak in that way, but there
, unless you, unless you want tosing everything like marvin gay
when you're, you know you never, who knows If you're.
Dr. Leah OH (27:52):
Marvin.
Jimmy Cannon (27:52):
Gaye yeah, exactly .
So the blend of those twovoices can just create another
tone.
It's using another pitch.
If I demonstrate it now, that'sa bit exaggerating, but I could
come down and just use it alittle bit softer, a little bit
lower, and it just gives adifferent dynamic to the voice.
(28:14):
So if, for instance, if you'respeaking to somebody and you
want to give the impression thatyou're empathic, that you have
empathy for what they'reexperiencing, so if you're in HR
I'm working with a client atthe moment.
She's in HR and she finds thatwhen she speaks she does come
across a little bit toojudgmental, let's say so.
(28:36):
She's got quite a harsh,throaty voice.
She speaks sort of quite hardlike that.
Thank you for coming to me.
Thank you, I very appreciateyour time.
Now, if she's spoken in thismore of a soft, open, mixed
voice, it can sound a bitpatronizing, but it's finding
the balance between the two.
So if you're and I reallyappreciate you coming thank you
(28:58):
for sharing that with me, andit's sort of that sort of that
late night dj voice sort ofthing you know.
So that's one thing that we cando which mixes the pitch and
the tone and and also as well.
So I've been speaking.
I'm very conscious, obviously,of how I speak because I'm a
voice coach, so I feel I'veprobably been speaking too
(29:20):
quickly and too loudly for thelast five or ten minutes.
Right, that's my.
Dr. Leah OH (29:25):
That's your take, but not what I'm picking up.
Jimmy Cannon (29:29):
Oh, I appreciate that.
So that's my take.
So what I would want to dowould be just to slow it down
slightly, bring the volume downa little bit, and actually
sometimes you know people say,oh, I've got a really weak voice
, jimmy, it's really quiet,nobody listens to me.
Sometimes having a really quietvoice is a really powerful
thing, because if you're in ameeting with lots, of, lots of
(29:50):
males, lots of alpha males oreven alpha women, and they take
over the meeting and they andthey and they and they say, they
say leah, what's your take onthis?
What's your point?
Can give me your some ideas?
And then you've got a very notyou personally, but you might
have a, a very controlled.
Well, thank you for letting megive me the opportunity to speak
.
I do have some ideas, and theseare my ideas and you're very
(30:12):
succinct with them, but it's avery quiet, controlled voice.
People generally listen to thatmore than they would somebody
what Patsy Roggenberg says inthe third circle, somebody that
is just filling too much spacewith their voice.
Dr. Leah OH (30:31):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense because you think
about two being on the receivingend of that voice, and that's a
lot easier, I think, in myexperience, in my preference is
to have that even even thatlittle bit on the quieter side,
the loud trying to speak overothers, because then my brain is
(30:56):
going overloaded, it's tryingto figure out why are you so
upset about this?
What is it that you're notsharing, in addition to what I'm
actually trying to listen to?
You say right?
Jimmy Cannon (31:07):
Absolutely, and there are so many clues in the
tonality, the inflections, theintention of the voice and how
you use it.
It's very, very, veryinteresting.
I'm very conscious of how Isound, how other people sound,
as I'm walking around where Ilive, you know, in shops and
(31:28):
restaurants, you know it'sreally, I find it really
fascinating.
Obviously I'm slightly biased,but you know, I think it's a
very, very powerful, powerfultool and it's actually, I think,
what's so.
I mainly work with people thatthe voice is a barrier to them,
it's something that is stoppingthem from being respected in in
(31:52):
their work, I think, and beingauthentic as well yes and I
think that's really interestingis is to is to find that
authentic voice, because we allwant to be and we should be as
genuine, as we can not put on apersona just to please somebody.
You want to please yourself andhave that authentic voice.
(32:12):
So if the voice doesn't feelconnected to you, I think that's
the key and that's what I'mreally fascinating.
Fascinated in is connecting thevoice to oneself and finding
that, that connection, thatauthentic connection exactly,
(32:33):
and that really becomes your,your bridge to the outside world
and it's it's funny.
Dr. Leah OH (32:38):
So I used to be an appallingly bad public speaker
and my voice.
I would be so upset because Ifelt like it was betraying me.
It would be shaky and it wouldcut in and cut out.
And if you told me I had a job,most of my lecture to 200
students at once.
If you told me I had a job builtaround public speaking 20 years
(33:00):
ago, I would have laughed atyou and said that's not going to
be possible, but you're right,it took a long time and I felt
like I had to make friends withmy voice in order to be able to
communicate what I had in myhead and what I was thinking
about and wanting to share.
Thinking about and wanting toshare.
Jimmy Cannon (33:17):
What did you, what did you do apart from apart
from that, what, what sort of,what sort of strategy did you
use over over time to was itjust purely just getting on with
it and doing it?
Cause that's a, that's a, yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (33:31):
That was a big part of it.
I think too, that's also sothat was undergrad days and then
a lot of the confidence camefrom competence, like the more
time I spent in organizationsand working and realizing okay,
I'm really good in these dyadicsmall situations.
(33:51):
So kind of trying to draw fromthat when it was a larger group
and then my master's and PhDwere in communication.
So I think just really betterunderstanding basics of we don't
spend as much time with voicebut just thinking about, oh,
like the, the makeup of a goodargument and of a speech, and
(34:17):
thinking about diction and allof that kind of coalesced with a
whole lot of practice and beingreally gritty, and just keep
keep going and, uh, you know,allowing me to be where I am
today.
Jimmy Cannon (34:33):
And with, with.
If you don't mind me asking onemore question, I'm I'm terrible
at this.
I mean, if you don't mind'tmind, I I'm just fascinated with
people like yourself.
So when you're doing what youdo now and you're working with
with teams, I presume and aboutthe communication within the
team, interpersonalcommunication then what is, if
what is the the biggestchallenge?
(34:54):
Do you think for that, for theteam in, in, in a communicating
sense?
Dr. Leah OH (35:00):
Oh, for teams and their ability to communicate
well.
I think, as you're saying,listening, I don't think we
listen well.
We listen in order to respondrather than listening to attempt
to understand.
So it would be starting withlistening better to one another,
and I think, too a lot of it islearning how to facilitate a
(35:24):
discussion, especially in smallgroups.
So if we recognize this is alouder voice or this person is a
little bit more reserved andthey need more time, having
someone who can facilitate, toopen that door to say, okay,
jenny, what do you think You'vebeen a little bit quieter?
We'd love to hear your thoughtshere.
Or, thanks so much, john, we'regoing to wrap that door to say,
okay, jenny, what do you thinkYou've been a little bit quiet,
we'd love to hear your thoughtshere.
Or, thanks so much, john.
We're going to wrap that up andI'm going to hear from Jimmy
(35:47):
now.
So I think those are really twopowerful tools for facilitating
effective groups.
Jimmy Cannon (35:55):
And do you feel that being a leader, part of
your skills as a leader, is tofacilitate that situation?
Dr. Leah OH (36:01):
Yes, yes, I think that to me the simplest route
leadership means to influence,and I think the way we influence
shifts on the situation and thecontext.
It is ever evolving.
It is ever evolving and in thatexample, if we recognize
there's a way to get more out ofJenny and a way to, you know,
(36:26):
harness John's talents in acertain way, and we can do that
simply by facilitating, then Ithink that's what leadership
looks like in that moment yeahthat's fascinating, yeah, so,
but again, all because I can usethis voice now in a very
dependable, reliable way.
Jimmy Cannon (36:48):
Exactly, exactly.
There we are yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (36:50):
So actually, this next question I have is about
overcoming public speakinganxiety.
So I am wondering.
So I used to teach publicspeaking and we didn't think
about voice too often.
We think about you know how doyou make this argument and what
are some techniques fordelivering this?
(37:12):
But not so much on the voice.
End with the work that you do?
How do you blend your voicework with anxiety management
strategies to help people bemore effective, especially if
they're going in with a big fear?
Jimmy Cannon (37:28):
Yeah, so the voice is, it ends up being the two
end up being linked and togetheranyway.
So when we're rehearsing, whenwe're practicing the, the,
either the practice, okay, sowhat?
(37:48):
There's a?
There's a couple that, forinstance, the exercise I may I
mentioned before.
There's one exercise that I dowhich is called intoning, and
that is a really, really amazingexercise.
What it does is it you, whatyou what the exercise?
I'll show you.
The exercise is this so if I, ifI were to say the words, the
two words, speaking better,right, I would sing on one note,
(38:12):
and you don't have to be asinger to do this, right, any,
any pitch, you have to sort ofbe able to hit, hold, a.
But anyway, that's notincredibly.
So here we are Speaking betterand what I'm doing is I'm
slowing everything down like theMatrix, my muscles and my
(38:37):
muscle memory to feel and holdin the quality of the vowel
sounds, because we're generallyspeaking when we're, when we're
talking too quickly, we, we, wego over the vowels, we, we, we
sort of uh, we, we forget thevowels and we just just talk.
(39:00):
We use mainly the articulationand consonants when we're
speaking, so it's very quick andso we normally forget the
vowels and the quality of thevowel sound.
And the vowels are everythingabout the tone, it's the middle
of the note when you're singingor when you're playing something
, so it's not the top of thetone, it's the middle of the
note when you're singing or whenyou're playing something.
(39:22):
So it's not the top of the note, it's in the middle of the note
and how long you can use that.
So by slowing down, so thisexercise just lengthens the
vowel sound so you're able toexplore the color of that.
So as you're doing that, we canuse breathing so that elongated
(39:47):
breath.
So the breathing and the breathis integral to reducing the
anxiety.
So by taking a long breath, adeep, deep breath I'm not going
to do it for too long here, buttaking a deep breath, as in the
diaphragm needs to contract whenyou're taking a breath in the
belly needs to come out, thelungs need to expand.
(40:08):
Most people take far too manyshort breaths, what I call upper
chest breaths.
So very deep breath.
In Using that breath as we'respeaking, and the practice is to
one, one pitch, just to openthe vowels and open the quality
and the color of the vowels.
(40:29):
Now the deep breath releasesend, sends a signal from the
diaphragm, from the abdominalmuscles back to the vagus nerve
and says you know what?
You don't need to be tight.
(40:50):
You don't need to put in allthe military and the infantry to
control the fight-flightresponse and to stop everything
and guard the king or the queen.
You don't need to do that.
You can relax, everything isgoing to be absolutely fine.
So by slowing down your rate ofspeech and elongating and
(41:11):
opening up the vowel, soundsactually mitigates the anxiety.
Dr. Leah OH (41:17):
So really breath and voice together yeah is, is
really really key, is reallyreally powerful yeah, and I
always think I always appreciatespeakers who take their time,
so I think it allows me tounpack excuse me, unpack what
they're saying and I thinkthere's a level of confidence
(41:40):
that comes with that.
Jimmy Cannon (41:42):
Sure, yeah, no, absolutely yeah, that's okay, no
problem.
The, the pause is really,really, really key and it's
incredibly, incredibly useful.
So, if you, if you're able to,there's a, there's a.
There's some research that Ican't remember exactly the
figure, but it's something likefive seconds or five and a half
seconds, where if someone'spaused for that amount of time,
(42:06):
it's only after about fiveseconds that the audience will
think that there's somethingwrong, that they might be having
a heart attack or somethinglike that.
Something terrible, something'shappening.
You know, we need to excuse me,you know, security, nurse,
whatever it might be at thatpoint.
So you can take a very, verylong pause.
If you think how long, fiveseconds is About that amount of
(42:32):
time.
Right, that seems very, youknow, it seems a long time, but
if you think about how long youwould normally take a pause for,
so you can take a pause beforeyou start speaking, you can take
a pause before you answer aquestion or in between a phrase
or sentence, just purely bytaking a breath.
(42:56):
So one, one trick that you cando is to use your nose.
So taking a breath in throughthe nose, also called the
Bottega technique, a Russiantechnique which has a more
direct connection to thediaphragm.
You're bypassing the vocaltracts because air is going
(43:16):
through the nasal passages.
So you're not bringing air inthrough the mouth.
So therefore you're notbringing cold air in and you
want to keep the larynx nice andrelaxed and warm.
So by taking a nice slow breaththrough the nose just gives you
a little bit of time again.
Take a deep breath and just tocenter yourself.
(43:38):
Give your listener, as you said,enough time to sort of process
what you've said yeah and alsoyour, your yourself time to
process your own thoughts andhow you're going to plan the
next phrase.
Dr. Leah OH (43:50):
So really yeah yeah , sorry that's so helpful yeah
and and that's a nice segue Iwas thinking about authenticity
and personalization when I waspreparing for our conversation
and I think, especially too, Iimagine, with your clients.
When people are learning to usetheir voice in different ways,
(44:13):
it sounds different to them, itsounds different to others,
others and you know, what do yourecommend?
So that, when we're working onvoice, that we still feel
authentic to ourselves and thatwe're we're conveying that
authenticity as well?
Jimmy Cannon (44:28):
I think.
I think the the authenticitycomes purely through your, your
own.
When it comes to a lot of things, it becomes.
You need to be very true toyour values.
You need to understand yourpersonality and to accept who
you are, your personality, whatyou stand for, your values, your
ethics, your morals, etc.
(45:02):
And then therefore, actuallylife becomes a lot easier
because your everything that youdo is is is to, is that there's
a song there everything,everything that you do, is
determined by your choice, yourvalues and what you, what you're
committed to doing, and why you, why you do what you do, mainly
(45:24):
your why or your purpose.
So, if you decide, you know whatI'm going to speak it up in
this meeting because I feel thatmy ideas should be listened to
and I'm really passionate and Iknow that these ideas are going
to make a positive difference tothe company or to the team or
to the project that you'reworking, whatever they might be.
So the authenticity is about isnot necessarily about
(45:52):
perfection, how within yourvoice, but what I.
What I think is interesting iswe can improve the way we
communicate.
We can use the voice as a tool.
It is an instrument.
All it's doing is accentuatingour, our own personality.
So, rather than, rather thanback off and avoid our voice,
(46:16):
why not embrace our voice andthe potential that it can do for
you with your life and throughyour role in your business or?
in your business and I thinkthat, again, having that
absolutely clean connection fromyour cognitive mind to your
(46:39):
body and vice versa, is reallyreally key.
So everything from the breathto the phonation, to the speech,
to the intention, to theprojection of your voice is
controlled and thought about andpracticed before it comes out
(47:02):
of your mouth.
I think that's really key and Ibelieve that that is a genuine
response to not my response, butthat would be a genuine
response to any communicationsituation that you might be in.
Dr. Leah OH (47:19):
Yeah, and that's so helpful.
And again, I really appreciateyou calling attention to the
preparation and, like you said,you're a trained musician.
In that I imagine people inperforming and performance arts
you recognize.
So much of the work happensbefore you show up to the stage
or the gig or whatever thatlooks like.
(47:40):
Happens before you show up tothe stage or the gig or whatever
that looks like.
And I think for a lot of folkswho don't have that experience,
they don't realize thatpreparation is needed or that
practice is why some people areable to show up in different
ways and to connect and inspiremaybe ways that they're not
quite there yet Absolutely.
Jimmy Cannon (48:02):
And practice, I mean.
Here's the thing.
I think that.
So I work with people that arethey've made a conscious effort
to commit to either coaching orCPD and they want to improve
their life.
They want to get a promotion,they want to be respected, they
want to be less judged, theywant to change the perception of
(48:25):
how they feel about themselves.
So part of that journey iscommitting to actions that are
going to change, that are goingto make that transformational
change in their lives.
So I suggest that people workon their voice, they work on
(48:45):
their self-esteem, which I helpthem with with their through
their confidence.
They work on their presence,their work, which is, you know,
presence.
Going back to that is fillingthe space, your body alignment,
how you connect with the breath,how you connect with the sound,
how you resonate through yourbody.
(49:05):
That's presence.
How you control the space thatyou're in.
There's loads of techniques todo that, but to practice all of
this, we have to go out thereand do it.
It's all very well.
All of this, we have to go outthere and do it, it's all very
well.
I'll give you the stereotype ofa musician who practice for
hours, practices for hours andhours in their bedroom,
(49:27):
obviously when they're younger,maybe, or even still now, right,
but but never goes on stage ornever plays with other people.
Being part of being a musicianas it is with a leader and as is
with a with a you know peoplewho work in in business.
They have to work with otherhuman beings, they have to work
with other people.
Being part of a musician isbeing part of a team and you
(49:48):
have to.
You have to listen, you have toappreciate, you have to
understand, you have to be ableto respond in them in an
appropriate way to a bass lineor groove or a melody or a vocal
.
You have to be playing around,you have to support the vocalist
(50:10):
.
If you're a vocalist, you haveto listen to the dynamics, you
have to lead the band.
There's so many integral partsof being in a band so I'm going
off piece slightly.
Sorry, leah.
Perfect parts of being in aband, so I'm going off piece
slightly, sorry, but the theperfect, okay, the con.
The concept is is not to stayin your bedroom and actually to
get out there, yeah, and startdoing some open mic nights or
(50:31):
start going to jam sessions, butin the business side of things,
the.
The similarity to that would beto maybe join a Toastmasters
group or start up a groupyourself where you get the
opportunity to tell stories, toput yourself out there, start
(50:52):
thinking I'm going to hold ameeting, I'm going to chair the
meeting.
Perhaps, if you have theopportunity to do that, give
yourself opportunities to speakas much as you can, in as many
environments as you can, andthat is desensitizing yourself
to the environment that you'rescared of, if you like, or
(51:19):
you're worried to put yourselfin in that you know.
Dr. Leah OH (51:22):
So taking yourself out of your comfort zone yep,
yep, not, not easy, butessential yes, absolutely.
Yeah, no, it's exactly yeah so,jimmy, I have two final
questions for you, and they'reum, they work well together and
this is how we end all episodesof the communicative leader.
(51:44):
So our first part of thequestion is what do you want to
leave our listeners with,whether a leadership or
communication tip, advice,challenge?
So it's for our title leaders,our folks who are managers,
directors, supervisors.
And then the second part of thequestion is just what do you
(52:05):
want to leave employees of, youknow, all ranks across all
industries, with?
Jimmy Cannon (52:10):
Interesting.
So I would say leaders andmanagement, I would.
I would focus on the pause andseeing how much space you can
(52:35):
create in between phrases toallow that natural space to
bring itself into that space.
So let me rephrase that I don'tknow about you, but I've
studied coaching.
I did an L7 leadership coachingcourse a couple of years ago
Very interesting, and even nowmy wife believes that I haven't.
(52:59):
My listening skills are evenworse.
No, I'm joking, but something Ilearned was to embrace the
pause.
Now, in speaking and in thevoice and singing and et cetera
and performing, silence isincredibly, incredibly powerful.
But in communication the pauseis really, really powerful,
(53:26):
because if you're talking to ateam member or colleague and you
want to find out moreinformation, the best thing you
can do is to shush and let themspeak.
And if you've got the confidenceto do that, to ask a question,
they answer, but it's normally asuperficial answer, it's
normally the surface answer,right.
(53:47):
And then you want to get alittle bit deeper, then don't
say anything for a couple ofseconds and they will more than
likely either paraphrase whatthey've said or or they will
continue on the same path, thesame journey, and they will give
you a lot more deeperexplanation of what you wanted
in the first place and that'sthe answer that you get.
(54:08):
So I think pause is really,really key.
The biggest thing that overallindustries with communication
would bear fruit to work onwould be using tone of voice.
(54:36):
I think tone of voice isincredibly powerful and having
access to different types ofvoice that you could use in
different situations.
So, whether that be asympathetic voice or be a more
authoritative voice or moreprojecting voice, that different
(54:56):
tone of voices can really helpin a lot of situations that you
might be in.
Dr. Leah OH (55:02):
Yes, yes, it is so much, not necessarily what you
say, but how you say it.
Jimmy Cannon (55:07):
Yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (55:09):
I was just thinking that when you were sharing that
example.
One of my kids is inkindergarten and sometimes I
volunteer in the classroom andthe teacher is a master with
tones of voice right andrecognizing, you know,
sympathetic or empathetic now,and authoritative now and just,
(55:32):
and there's so much to learnfrom that, because you recognize
that you are well, you'rekeeping people safe, but you're
getting things done and you'redoing it while maintaining and
strengthening relationships.
Jimmy Cannon (55:45):
Yes, very good, I like that, yeah, and that's a
tool that they've had to adoptpretty quickly, I would imagine,
to keep control over the class.
Yeah, yeah absolutely, yeah,fantastic.
Dr. Leah OH (55:58):
Excellent, jimmy.
I have thoroughly enjoyed ourconversation today.
I have learned so much.
I know there's so many thingsI'm going to be returning to,
and thank you for sharing yourtime with us and all of your
expertise.
Jimmy Cannon (56:13):
It was an absolute pleasure, leah, lovely to meet
you.
Dr. Leah OH (56:17):
All right, my friends.
That wraps up our conversationtoday.
Until next time, communicatewith intention and lead with
purpose.
I'm looking forward to chattingwith you again soon on the
Communicative Leader.
Welcome to another episode of the Communicative
Leader.
I'm your host, dr Leah oh, andtoday we're excited to introduce
you to Jimmy Cannon, atransformative voice expert who
seamlessly merges voice workwith anxiety management
strategies to redefineleadership communication.
Jimmy's distinctive approachoffers fresh perspectives on
(00:21):
overcoming public speakinganxiety and really mastering the
art of vocal delivery.
Through his innovative Canonmethod, he has empowered
countless individuals to harnesstheir voice, conquer their
nerves and cultivate aleadership presence that really
inspires and connects.
In today's episode, we'llexplore key topics such as why
(00:42):
your voice might be your mostunderutilized leadership tool
and how subtle vocal shifts candramatically enhance your
influence.
Jimmy uncovers the common vocalpitfalls that undermine
confidence and guides us throughpractical techniques so we can
sound more authoritative andimpactful.
If you're ready to elevate yourcommunication skills and
(01:05):
leverage your voice as aleadership superpower, this
episode is packed withinsightful strategies.
Let's have some fun.
Hello and welcome to theCommunicative Leader hosted by
me, Dr Leah Omilion- Hodges.
My friends call me Dr O.
I'm a professor ofcommunication and a leadership
(01:26):
communication expert.
On the Communicative Leader,we're working to make your work
life what you want it to be,jimmy.
Thank you for joining us on theCommunicative Leader.
We're so excited to have youtoday and I was hoping you could
start by sharing a bit aboutyour journey and how you came to
(01:46):
develop the Canon Method forMastering Voice and Managing
Anxiety.
Jimmy Cannon (01:51):
Hi, leah.
Thank you so much for allowingme on your podcast.
It's a pleasure to be here.
So that's a good question.
How did I start?
It's a long story.
I'll try to keep it short.
That's probably best, isn't it?
Otherwise, we'll be here forhours.
I'll try to keep it short.
That's probably best, isn't it?
Otherwise, we'll be here forhours.
So the Canon method is aboutthree things.
(02:14):
I've realized that when peoplecome to me about the voice, they
generally come to me sayingJimmy, I've got a weak voice,
I'm not being heard, I'mstruggling to cut through the
crowd, so it works.
But what I find is it's notjust the physiology of their
voice, it's not just the factthat they are speaking too
quietly, it's about thebehavioral environment, it's
(02:39):
about the psychology.
So there's three things that Ihelp people with, and it's a
holistic approach, which istheir voice, but also their
confidence and their presence.
So, voice and confidence andtheir presence.
Dr. Leah OH (02:59):
I love that.
I imagine that's kind of thetrifecta of, you know,
projecting, leadership andinfluence and connecting with
others, because they're allthose magic ingredients.
Jimmy Cannon (03:12):
That's it, absolutely.
Dr. Leah OH (03:14):
So, jimmy, you talk about the Canon Method and I
was hoping you could walk usthrough these core principles of
the Canon Method and kind ofhow you help individuals
transform their vocal presenceand also manage anxiety at the
same time yeah, well, it's it's.
Jimmy Cannon (03:31):
It depends on the individual and it depends on
what results they're looking for, but generally speaking, the
voice is an incredibly.
I mean, I'm hesitating and I'mputting a caveat out there in my
mind because I know and this ismy imposter syndrome coming
through probably as well is thatI know that you're an expert in
(03:52):
this and this is what you doand I obviously you know, you
know this.
So I'm just going to, I'm justgoing to put a caveat out there
that you probably a lot of thelisteners and yourself know all
about this as well.
Dr. Leah OH (04:05):
I'm just, I'm just going to sort of, you know um
spill everything as if, as ifyou didn't know you, you are the
expert we know a little aboutsome other things, but voice
jimmy, this is you okay, well,in that case, I uh then.
Jimmy Cannon (04:13):
Then I have the, I have the platform.
That's great, wonderful, yes,so, okay, fantastic, so.
So the voice is an incrediblypowerful thing.
It and one example is is that,as we, as we're elongating our
vowels, as we're lengthening ourphrase to to give you a very
simple example the, oursympathetic nervous system will
(04:38):
be told, via the diaphragm,which is linked directly to the
vagus nerve, that we can calmdown, we can reduce the anxiety,
we can mitigate thefight-flight response that we
might be having when we're in asituation where we might find
(05:01):
that we're feeling nervous oranxious to speak.
So, actually, by doing theopposite to what most people do,
which is avoid speakingentirely or freeze or pause or
stop speaking, actually the bestthing to do is to keep speaking
and make your words, to makeyour phrases much longer.
Now, to do that, you need tohave control over your
(05:24):
out-breath and then, therefore,you need control over your
in-breath, because if youhaven't got enough breath, then
you can't use the breath toelongate it in the first place.
So that one example is, for me,absolutely fascinating that, as
a doctor, you'll know thatthere is evidence and there is
(05:45):
research out there that atteststo the connection between the
vagus nerve and various areas ofthe body, such as the larynx,
the diaphragm, the abdomen, totell us that, actually, if we
can control the sympatheticnervous system, we can control
the, the signals that it'sgiving both our body and then,
(06:08):
vice versa, back to our mind tocontrol how we feel.
Dr. Leah OH (06:13):
You know, so that's fascinating, yeah you know,
it's so counterintuitive, Ithink that yeah because you're
right.
Your body is telling you bequiet, don't say anything, don't
embarrass yourself, and thebest thing you can do like
you're right, your body istelling you be quiet, don't say
anything, don't embarrassyourself, and the best thing you
can do, like you're saying, isto use your voice then, but it's
not easy?
Jimmy Cannon (06:32):
Yeah, no, absolutely you know.
I think the opposite to that is, if you are experiencing these
behavioral responses so you areavoiding certain situations,
then that's got to be dealt with.
So that's, that's really theconfidence issue.
That's that, that's the youknow, why are you avoiding the
(06:54):
scenario?
So what I do there with, withas well as the voice, so by
improving your vocal skills andyour, your, your instrument,
which is your voice, you're then, by definition and by factor,
going to be improving theconfidence and how you sound,
how you feel.
A lot of people say they hatethe sound of their voice.
They just don't speak upbecause they really can't stand.
(07:16):
So I help people with that, butalso I help people with the,
the psychological aspects aswell.
So I ended up studyingacceptance and commitment
therapy, which is I'm sureyou're aware of it, but if
you're not aware of it, then itcomes from rational frame theory
(07:36):
.
It's very similar to CBT, whichCBT very simply and I'm not an
expert in CBT reframes negativethoughts and puts them into
positive affirmations, which isfantastic, and there's thousands
of papers that celebrate that.
The act is something which isslightly different, which is
(07:59):
about recognizing or being awareof these negative thoughts that
are there and putting theputting the energy back onto
your uh, your values.
So, depending on what yourvalues are, then then the focus
is on that so committed actiontowards your values.
(08:20):
And the practice that I I helppeople with is present moment
exercises, so mindfulnessexercises to keep yourself in
the present moment, because weare constantly distracted and
fused with our negative thoughts, whether that be avoiding
speaking or it might be asomatic response.
(08:41):
Say, your larynx or vocal tractis very tight, so therefore
very strained, and it feels likeyou know you can't control, or
you might be getting distractedby something that somebody walks
into a meeting, they're lateand all of a sudden the whole
flow has just been dissipated soyou've got to come back and
recenter yourself.
(09:02):
So there's lots of exercisesthat you can do in the interim
period that help you in thatmoment.
Dr. Leah OH (09:12):
Yeah, that's a really helpful reminder and I
think something I imagine youfind in your work a lot of
people haven't really thoughtabout yet is the preparation
they can be doing and leading upto raising a hand or giving
that update in the meeting orwhatever that looks like.
So that's a really greatreminder, jimmy thank you very
(09:32):
much.
Jimmy Cannon (09:32):
I think the preparation is really.
Uh, my background is I'm sorryif I'm talking a lot here.
That's the idea, isn't it?
That?
Dr. Leah OH (09:39):
I'm no, you are my guest, please yes okay, is that
all right?
Jimmy Cannon (09:44):
I hate talking about myself.
This is a very difficult thingto do, isn't it?
Dr. Leah OH (09:48):
It is difficult, but thank you, it is difficult
my pleasure.
Jimmy Cannon (09:51):
It's an absolute pleasure.
I'm passionate about what I do,so, like you are, so it's very
easy to keep going, keep talking, but tell me the shush if you
need to.
That's absolutely fine.
So my background is performance, so my my background is singing
.
I also play saxophone as well,so preparation is absolutely key
.
Yes, and if you do have thetime, you know I tell my clients
(10:13):
all the time to send me videosof them practicing and I can
give them feedback, etc.
So it's really important thatyou have this consistent
practice, that that you're doingand and.
So, to give you an example,really, really simple but
effective thing to do is, if youare working on a pitch or
presentation, then, rather thanI mean something that I used to
(10:35):
teach my students all the timerather than go from the
beginning and and and start atthe beginning and then keep, you
know, keep going through ituntil the end and then just keep
repeating that Work on the bitthat you're not very familiar
with, work on the section thatyou're not that confident with,
and really get that right andparaphrase.
So change it up a little bit,mix it up.
(10:55):
You know, for instance, there'sa most heightened time of
anxiety is 60 seconds beforeyou're about to speak.
So it's that you know whenyou're waiting to be introduced.
Or you're waiting on a Zoomcall.
You know that you're going tobe speaking about your topic,
you've got some data to sharewith the rest of the team,
(11:17):
whatever it might be.
Or you're at a conference andyou've got the headset in and
someone says to you right, okay,five seconds, jimmy, jimmy,
five seconds.
That point, or just before thatpoint, that's the most
heightened bit of anxiety, right?
So you know this is a.
This is a big challenge.
So, instead of a difficult, ifyou've got a, if you've got a
conference or you're doing a tedtalk, or and then it's
(11:37):
absolutely planned word for word, but if you've got a meeting or
you've got a workshop or you'vegot something that you're doing
, that you can change aroundslightly instead of going into
your intro, why not ask somequestions?
So do maybe do a q a at thebeginning, so you're taking the
pressure off the beginning assoon as you know, right?
So as soon as you know and theyou, as soon as you get used to
(12:02):
the environment, the acousticenvironment of the room, the
personalities in the room, youcan feel a lot more settled more
present, and then, as soon asyou've had some, you know what,
leah, I've got a question.
Hey, great, what's the question?
Okay, blah, blah, blah, and thenyou answer the question and
then, all of a sudden, you'vebroken the ice.
(12:24):
You're having a wonderfulconversation and you answer the
question, and then, all of asudden, you've broken the ice.
You're having a wonderfulconversation and you know.
So that's just one little sortof tip that I always give my
clients.
Dr. Leah OH (12:32):
Yeah, that's so helpful too, and I think, too,
an audience appreciates that,because we're spoken at so often
.
But to actually immediately beintegrated is something that we
welcome, absolutely, absolutelyyeah.
Jimmy Cannon (12:49):
So it's an incredibly effective way to
manage that anxiety at the time.
So, with presence, there's alot of literature on presence
and I come from the PatsyRodenberg school of thought,
(13:09):
which is that we create thespace, we fill the space, we use
the space that we're in A lotof the time and I'll give you an
example In England.
This is a strange example, butin England we don't have a lot
of space.
I, I happen to live in a quitea rural area.
So if you're, um, if you're inthe states, then generally if
(13:32):
you're in a big city, you're,you know, you've got a lot of
room and and you can, you canuse that space that you're in.
But in england, especially ifyou're in london, which I lived
for 30 odd years, you know youdon, you don't have it on the
tube.
We call it the tube right onthe tube.
It's very, very small.
Nobody wants to put their headabove the parapet, so we're very
(13:53):
.
There's a lot of sort of how canI?
Sort of false humility.
I suppose there's a selfdeprecation, right, it's kind of
a classic cliche of Englishpeople.
So I'm not suggesting thatevery american is, is, has that
also has that stereo, theopposite stereotype, but the,
the, the idea of getting onstage or or taking up that space
(14:16):
is frowned upon to a degree,especially in the education
system.
So I, I grew up in a, in astate education system, and it
was sort of frowned upon if youhad a bit of um, what did my
clients um, he's, uh, he, one ofmy clients is, is, uh, is
hebrew, and he what?
Um, what's the?
I'm trying to think of the wordhe used.
(14:37):
Is it schmutz or or what's thephrase?
I can't think of what it iscalled.
Oh, come to me, what's that?
Chutzpah, chutzpah, chutzpah.
Dr. Leah OH (14:49):
Yeah.
Jimmy Cannon (14:51):
So not everybody's got that chutzpah.
Dr. Leah OH (14:54):
Yes, and I think it should be.
Jimmy Cannon (14:55):
I think we should encourage this.
I think we should encouragethis chutzpah and the space that
you create when you're speakingor whatever environment that
you're in.
So I think finding that spaceand using that space and
breathing into that space is areally important thing to be
able to do.
Dr. Leah OH (15:13):
Yeah, yeah, you're right, and let's dive more into
voice, because I imagine thatcan also help us feel more at
home in a space.
And I know that you talk aboutvoice as an underutilized
leadership tool, and I couldn'tagree with you more.
And I was hoping, jimmy, youcould kind of elaborate on some
of these vocal elements liketone, rhythm, projection.
(15:36):
How do these elements shape theway that others perceive us?
Jimmy Cannon (15:42):
Sure, well, okay, the first thing is that we, our
voice, is an immediate tool forconnection, immediate way of
people judging you in, in, in,in, either in a positive or
negative way.
So if you have a particularlyquiet voice, or weak voice, or
you have a harsh voice, forinstance, then and I'm, I'm, I'm
(16:04):
purposely doing this now, soI'm, I'm softening my tone, so
I'm thinking right, okay, how amI going to appeal to most of
the listeners out?
I'm not doing this maliciously,right, I'm just doing it as an
example, and but by justwidening the tone of your voice,
making as warm as and as a andchesty as possible.
We have seven areas ofresonance in the voice and we
(16:27):
can access those, and we can.
What we're looking for is awhat's called a balanced
phonation.
So that depends on yourphysiology, so it depends on the
shape of your larynx, but,excuse me, the one way to, to
appeal to to most people is tohave a balanced tone and that
(16:48):
means that you're, you know, andthat's very much dependent on
how you feel about your voiceand how other people listen to
your voice.
What's really interesting, Ithink, is that we, a lot of us
I've mentioned this before but alot of us hate the sound of our
voice, but actually what wehear is not what other people
hear, okay, so what we hear is abinaural effect of which is in
(17:14):
the head cavity, and so theresonance in the head cavity,
going through our auditorysystem, our ears, is what we
hear as we speak.
And especially, you know, you're, you're listening to me with
headphones, right?
So I'm going through thismicrophone.
Okay, I'm going through amicrophone, and that's being
analog signal to digital signalbeing converted to your ears.
(17:37):
That's already been manipulatedin that zone, right?
So even if you were here inthis room, in this space, what
you'd actually be listening tois the first reflection of the
sound coming out of my mouth,from the first wall that it hits
, and that's what you hear,which is slightly different to
(18:00):
what I'm hearing as my voice.
So just to know, that is areally good start.
So back to your question, whichI've forgotten completely.
It's about how do you use toneof voice, pace, pause.
Dr. Leah OH (18:11):
Yeah, just some of these vocal elements.
How do they shape others'perceptions?
Jimmy Cannon (18:16):
Yeah, sure, okay, interesting.
How do they shape others'perceptions?
Well again, quiet voice, harshvoice People are going to be
judging you on the tonality ofyour voice.
So if you're somebody thatspeaks far too quickly, if you
don't use pace, pause.
If you've got a particularlyaggressive or uh, feral or alpha
(18:38):
male type voice, maybe you'vegot a voice that, unfortunately,
if you're female, a lot, of, alot of um, female speakers speak
in by by.
Naturally they speak in theirhead voice, so they're very high
and they're not taken seriously, so their credibility is lost.
So I work with a lot of womenthat want to find more of a sort
(19:01):
of a deeper sounding voice to,and unfortunately, the research
shows that people with a deeper,more mellifluous sounding voice
are respected more.
Their credibility is noted, andit's just a shame that in this
culture that we're in, that isthe case.
I also think that AI issomething I've been thinking
(19:24):
about recently and obviouslythis at the moment it's on
everybody's ears.
I think AI is going to changethe way we communicate vastly,
in that people are going to needto be heard even more, so their
(19:51):
voice is going to need to beable to communicate.
Through our voice, our desires,our message, etc.
Dr. Leah OH (20:01):
Yeah, that's so helpful, and I know that you can
see voice as one of yourleadership superpowers.
And I'm wondering, in yourexperience and maybe some things
you've heard from clients, iswhy do you think people
initially overlook the power ofvoice and then the second part
is then what can we do to startusing our voice more effectively
(20:24):
, especially if we want to beseen as a leader?
Jimmy Cannon (20:27):
Yeah, okay, well, I'll answer the latter, if I may
.
The way we can use our voice Ithink predominantly I'm sort of
counterintuitive actually is tolisten, is to pause, is to
create space.
So find the space, fill thespace and use that space to
(20:55):
create a connection to theperson that you're speaking to
or the group of people thatyou're speaking to.
Pausing is a very, verydifficult thing to do.
It's very challenging forpeople that are nervous, people
that don't have the confidenceto speak up and speak for a long
period of time, particularly togroups of people.
So by taking a breath and usingthat pause is really, really
effective.
So, leadership wise, I think, Ibelieve that saying less is
(21:18):
more, very similar to music andhow that space to really compose
, if you like, what you're goingto say.
(21:38):
So by listening, by taking thebreath to show that you're
listening and then to use thatspace in an effective way to
speak in a very efficient andsimple prose.
Dr. Leah OH (21:53):
Yeah.
Jimmy Cannon (21:54):
I think that's the answer.
I couldn't agree more.
You're right.
Dr. Leah OH (21:57):
That's yeah, that's the.
You know, the longer I've beenresearching and hosting this
podcast, the more the simplestadvice is the most effective.
Nine out of 10 times.
Jimmy Cannon (22:11):
Yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (22:16):
Because it works right.
And I think too, even whenwe're looking at our voice as a
leadership superpower,recognizing that if we're not
listening and engaging inmeaningful ways, it doesn't
matter how our tone is or howour pauses are, if they're not,
you know, connecting with ouraudience pauses are, if they're
not, you know, connecting withour audience absolutely.
Jimmy Cannon (22:36):
And I think I think, as leaders and and you
know, people that want to be inthat field, in that industry or
not in in that sort of vet, youknow how would I, how would I
put it in that dome, if you likewe want, you know, we want our
leaders to go from the otherperspective, to respect other
people.
We want to be respected, wewant to feel that we're listened
(22:58):
to and appreciated, and I thinkthat's really, really key for
leaders to have that lessauthoritative or less doctoral
approach to speaking.
I think that's really, reallykey.
Dr. Leah OH (23:14):
Agreed.
So, jimmy, let's think aboutsome vocal pitfalls, and you
kind of mentioned that many highperformers might inadvertently
undermine their own confidencethrough different vocal patterns
.
So I was hoping you could kindof walk us through what are some
common vocal pitfalls, and thenhow do we identify them in
(23:37):
ourselves and course correct?
Jimmy Cannon (23:39):
Yeah.
So I think the biggest pitfallis to I'm trying to do this now.
The opposite way is to producea monotone sounding voice.
Right, it's a bit of a cliche.
I have basically a voice thatis repetitive, whether it's
monotone as in one pitch, and,to give an example, if I'm
(24:02):
speaking on a monotone sort ofvoice, it would be something
like this and if I'm speakingfrom the throat and it sounds a
little bit tired and too shouty,then it would be something like
this and that sort of that sortof sound.
After a while the person who'sall the group who's listening is
going to tune out, they'regoing to switch off, right.
So we need to vary the threesort of um pillars, if you like,
(24:24):
of the voice for me are pitch,dynamics and tone.
So I've spoken a little bitabout tone and I often work with
people with their pitch.
So we use roughly 20 percent ofour speaking voice that we can
(24:45):
dip into, we can, we can find.
So, generally speaking, there'sanother 80 percent or, you know
, nearly an octave.
So in musical terms, that'squite a lot that we can, you
know, we can dip into and use.
So that's really that's, Ithink, fascinating that we don't
(25:07):
use that and, generallyspeaking, because we're either,
depending on where you knowwhere we're from, what you know
what culture we're from, we areassigned a sort of a limitation,
like a threshold of pitch, ifyou like, when we're speaking, a
sort of a dialect of pitch.
So when I'm working with myclients, I really encourage them
to expand their pitch range.
(25:27):
So, instead of speaking on onelevel all the time and it's just
that drone going on this,particularly in middle-aged men
probably I'm doing a cliche, youknow a stereotype, but it's
very common, you know.
Thank you very much for coming.
I've got a few words to say anduh, then I'll leave you to it.
You know you're all doing verygood work.
Well done everyone.
That sort of sound, right, um?
(25:49):
I encourage you to reallyexplore a little bit lighter
sound maybe, and they can go alittle bit higher than they can
come down if they want to.
So having that, having that umcontrol or access to a much
higher uh pitch, now there'sjust very quickly we've got.
I mean, I could talk about thisall day, but we we have four
(26:12):
main registers in in our voice,so the low one is what's called
vocal creek and it can be alittle bit detrimental if you're
speaking in that uh, in thatway all the time.
It's sort of that creaky vocalfry, right.
So that's our, our lowestregister.
The next one is called modal one, which is in in old old terms
(26:38):
or old school terms, is yourchest voice.
So we, we generally speak inchest voice, most men speak in
chest voice, and then we've gotmodal two, which is our head
voice, most women speaking intheir head voice, and then we've
got whistle tone, which arereally just accessible for dogs
and Mariah Carey, and that's youknow, very, very, very high
(27:02):
tones that we probably wouldn'tget to.
But there is.
What's really interesting isthat between a chest or modal
one and modal two, which is ourhead voice, there's what's
called the passagia or thebridge, and that can create the
connection between the two.
You can blend the two voices.
So you can create and I'lldemonstrate now.
So it's this kind of voice herethat I'm using.
(27:22):
It's just to exaggerate thatI'm using this very sort of
mixed blend in the voice andsingers use it to create a very
sort of um, uh, giving examplewould be sort of marvin gay
singing, um, my girl talkingabout my girl, that sort of
(27:43):
sound, right, I'm not suggestingwe speak in that way, but there
, unless you, unless you want tosing everything like marvin gay
when you're, you know you never, who knows If you're.
Dr. Leah OH (27:52):
Marvin.
Jimmy Cannon (27:52):
Gaye yeah, exactly .
So the blend of those twovoices can just create another
tone.
It's using another pitch.
If I demonstrate it now, that'sa bit exaggerating, but I could
come down and just use it alittle bit softer, a little bit
lower, and it just gives adifferent dynamic to the voice.
(28:14):
So if, for instance, if you'respeaking to somebody and you
want to give the impression thatyou're empathic, that you have
empathy for what they'reexperiencing, so if you're in HR
I'm working with a client atthe moment.
She's in HR and she finds thatwhen she speaks she does come
across a little bit toojudgmental, let's say so.
(28:36):
She's got quite a harsh,throaty voice.
She speaks sort of quite hardlike that.
Thank you for coming to me.
Thank you, I very appreciateyour time.
Now, if she's spoken in thismore of a soft, open, mixed
voice, it can sound a bitpatronizing, but it's finding
the balance between the two.
So if you're and I reallyappreciate you coming thank you
(28:58):
for sharing that with me, andit's sort of that sort of that
late night dj voice sort ofthing you know.
So that's one thing that we cando which mixes the pitch and
the tone and and also as well.
So I've been speaking.
I'm very conscious, obviously,of how I speak because I'm a
voice coach, so I feel I'veprobably been speaking too
(29:20):
quickly and too loudly for thelast five or ten minutes.
Right, that's my.
Dr. Leah OH (29:25):
That's your take, but not what I'm picking up.
Jimmy Cannon (29:29):
Oh, I appreciate that.
So that's my take.
So what I would want to dowould be just to slow it down
slightly, bring the volume downa little bit, and actually
sometimes you know people say,oh, I've got a really weak voice
, jimmy, it's really quiet,nobody listens to me.
Sometimes having a really quietvoice is a really powerful
thing, because if you're in ameeting with lots, of, lots of
(29:50):
males, lots of alpha males oreven alpha women, and they take
over the meeting and they andthey and they and they say, they
say leah, what's your take onthis?
What's your point?
Can give me your some ideas?
And then you've got a very notyou personally, but you might
have a, a very controlled.
Well, thank you for letting megive me the opportunity to speak
.
I do have some ideas, and theseare my ideas and you're very
(30:12):
succinct with them, but it's avery quiet, controlled voice.
People generally listen to thatmore than they would somebody
what Patsy Roggenberg says inthe third circle, somebody that
is just filling too much spacewith their voice.
Dr. Leah OH (30:31):
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense because you think
about two being on the receivingend of that voice, and that's a
lot easier, I think, in myexperience, in my preference is
to have that even even thatlittle bit on the quieter side,
the loud trying to speak overothers, because then my brain is
(30:56):
going overloaded, it's tryingto figure out why are you so
upset about this?
What is it that you're notsharing, in addition to what I'm
actually trying to listen to?
You say right?
Jimmy Cannon (31:07):
Absolutely, and there are so many clues in the
tonality, the inflections, theintention of the voice and how
you use it.
It's very, very, veryinteresting.
I'm very conscious of how Isound, how other people sound,
as I'm walking around where Ilive, you know, in shops and
(31:28):
restaurants, you know it'sreally, I find it really
fascinating.
Obviously I'm slightly biased,but you know, I think it's a
very, very powerful, powerfultool and it's actually, I think,
what's so.
I mainly work with people thatthe voice is a barrier to them,
it's something that is stoppingthem from being respected in in
(31:52):
their work, I think, and beingauthentic as well yes and I
think that's really interestingis is to is to find that
authentic voice, because we allwant to be and we should be as
genuine, as we can not put on apersona just to please somebody.
You want to please yourself andhave that authentic voice.
(32:12):
So if the voice doesn't feelconnected to you, I think that's
the key and that's what I'mreally fascinating.
Fascinated in is connecting thevoice to oneself and finding
that, that connection, thatauthentic connection exactly,
(32:33):
and that really becomes your,your bridge to the outside world
and it's it's funny.
Dr. Leah OH (32:38):
So I used to be an appallingly bad public speaker
and my voice.
I would be so upset because Ifelt like it was betraying me.
It would be shaky and it wouldcut in and cut out.
And if you told me I had a job,most of my lecture to 200
students at once.
If you told me I had a job builtaround public speaking 20 years
(33:00):
ago, I would have laughed atyou and said that's not going to
be possible, but you're right,it took a long time and I felt
like I had to make friends withmy voice in order to be able to
communicate what I had in myhead and what I was thinking
about and wanting to share.
Thinking about and wanting toshare.
Jimmy Cannon (33:17):
What did you, what did you do apart from apart
from that, what, what sort of,what sort of strategy did you
use over over time to was itjust purely just getting on with
it and doing it?
Cause that's a, that's a, yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (33:31):
That was a big part of it.
I think too, that's also sothat was undergrad days and then
a lot of the confidence camefrom competence, like the more
time I spent in organizationsand working and realizing okay,
I'm really good in these dyadicsmall situations.
(33:51):
So kind of trying to draw fromthat when it was a larger group
and then my master's and PhDwere in communication.
So I think just really betterunderstanding basics of we don't
spend as much time with voicebut just thinking about, oh,
like the, the makeup of a goodargument and of a speech, and
(34:17):
thinking about diction and allof that kind of coalesced with a
whole lot of practice and beingreally gritty, and just keep
keep going and, uh, you know,allowing me to be where I am
today.
Jimmy Cannon (34:33):
And with, with.
If you don't mind me asking onemore question, I'm I'm terrible
at this.
I mean, if you don't mind'tmind, I I'm just fascinated with
people like yourself.
So when you're doing what youdo now and you're working with
with teams, I presume and aboutthe communication within the
team, interpersonalcommunication then what is, if
what is the the biggestchallenge?
(34:54):
Do you think for that, for theteam in, in, in a communicating
sense?
Dr. Leah OH (35:00):
Oh, for teams and their ability to communicate
well.
I think, as you're saying,listening, I don't think we
listen well.
We listen in order to respondrather than listening to attempt
to understand.
So it would be starting withlistening better to one another,
and I think, too a lot of it islearning how to facilitate a
(35:24):
discussion, especially in smallgroups.
So if we recognize this is alouder voice or this person is a
little bit more reserved andthey need more time, having
someone who can facilitate, toopen that door to say, okay,
jenny, what do you think You'vebeen a little bit quieter?
We'd love to hear your thoughtshere.
Or, thanks so much, john, we'regoing to wrap that door to say,
okay, jenny, what do you thinkYou've been a little bit quiet,
we'd love to hear your thoughtshere.
Or, thanks so much, john.
We're going to wrap that up andI'm going to hear from Jimmy
(35:47):
now.
So I think those are really twopowerful tools for facilitating
effective groups.
Jimmy Cannon (35:55):
And do you feel that being a leader, part of
your skills as a leader, is tofacilitate that situation?
Dr. Leah OH (36:01):
Yes, yes, I think that to me the simplest route
leadership means to influence,and I think the way we influence
shifts on the situation and thecontext.
It is ever evolving.
It is ever evolving and in thatexample, if we recognize
there's a way to get more out ofJenny and a way to, you know,
(36:26):
harness John's talents in acertain way, and we can do that
simply by facilitating, then Ithink that's what leadership
looks like in that moment yeahthat's fascinating, yeah, so,
but again, all because I can usethis voice now in a very
dependable, reliable way.
Jimmy Cannon (36:48):
Exactly, exactly.
There we are yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (36:50):
So actually, this next question I have is about
overcoming public speakinganxiety.
So I am wondering.
So I used to teach publicspeaking and we didn't think
about voice too often.
We think about you know how doyou make this argument and what
are some techniques fordelivering this?
(37:12):
But not so much on the voice.
End with the work that you do?
How do you blend your voicework with anxiety management
strategies to help people bemore effective, especially if
they're going in with a big fear?
Jimmy Cannon (37:28):
Yeah, so the voice is, it ends up being the two
end up being linked and togetheranyway.
So when we're rehearsing, whenwe're practicing the, the,
either the practice, okay, sowhat?
(37:48):
There's a?
There's a couple that, forinstance, the exercise I may I
mentioned before.
There's one exercise that I dowhich is called intoning, and
that is a really, really amazingexercise.
What it does is it you, whatyou what the exercise?
I'll show you.
The exercise is this so if I, ifI were to say the words, the
two words, speaking better,right, I would sing on one note,
(38:12):
and you don't have to be asinger to do this, right, any,
any pitch, you have to sort ofbe able to hit, hold, a.
But anyway, that's notincredibly.
So here we are Speaking betterand what I'm doing is I'm
slowing everything down like theMatrix, my muscles and my
(38:37):
muscle memory to feel and holdin the quality of the vowel
sounds, because we're generallyspeaking when we're, when we're
talking too quickly, we, we, wego over the vowels, we, we, we
sort of uh, we, we forget thevowels and we just just talk.
(39:00):
We use mainly the articulationand consonants when we're
speaking, so it's very quick andso we normally forget the
vowels and the quality of thevowel sound.
And the vowels are everythingabout the tone, it's the middle
of the note when you're singingor when you're playing something
, so it's not the top of thetone, it's the middle of the
note when you're singing or whenyou're playing something.
(39:22):
So it's not the top of the note, it's in the middle of the note
and how long you can use that.
So by slowing down, so thisexercise just lengthens the
vowel sound so you're able toexplore the color of that.
So as you're doing that, we canuse breathing so that elongated
(39:47):
breath.
So the breathing and the breathis integral to reducing the
anxiety.
So by taking a long breath, adeep, deep breath I'm not going
to do it for too long here, buttaking a deep breath, as in the
diaphragm needs to contract whenyou're taking a breath in the
belly needs to come out, thelungs need to expand.
(40:08):
Most people take far too manyshort breaths, what I call upper
chest breaths.
So very deep breath.
In Using that breath as we'respeaking, and the practice is to
one, one pitch, just to openthe vowels and open the quality
and the color of the vowels.
(40:29):
Now the deep breath releasesend, sends a signal from the
diaphragm, from the abdominalmuscles back to the vagus nerve
and says you know what?
You don't need to be tight.
(40:50):
You don't need to put in allthe military and the infantry to
control the fight-flightresponse and to stop everything
and guard the king or the queen.
You don't need to do that.
You can relax, everything isgoing to be absolutely fine.
So by slowing down your rate ofspeech and elongating and
(41:11):
opening up the vowel, soundsactually mitigates the anxiety.
Dr. Leah OH (41:17):
So really breath and voice together yeah is, is
really really key, is reallyreally powerful yeah, and I
always think I always appreciatespeakers who take their time,
so I think it allows me tounpack excuse me, unpack what
they're saying and I thinkthere's a level of confidence
(41:40):
that comes with that.
Jimmy Cannon (41:42):
Sure, yeah, no, absolutely yeah, that's okay, no
problem.
The, the pause is really,really, really key and it's
incredibly, incredibly useful.
So, if you, if you're able to,there's a, there's a.
There's some research that Ican't remember exactly the
figure, but it's something likefive seconds or five and a half
seconds, where if someone'spaused for that amount of time,
(42:06):
it's only after about fiveseconds that the audience will
think that there's somethingwrong, that they might be having
a heart attack or somethinglike that.
Something terrible, something'shappening.
You know, we need to excuse me,you know, security, nurse,
whatever it might be at thatpoint.
So you can take a very, verylong pause.
If you think how long, fiveseconds is About that amount of
(42:32):
time.
Right, that seems very, youknow, it seems a long time, but
if you think about how long youwould normally take a pause for,
so you can take a pause beforeyou start speaking, you can take
a pause before you answer aquestion or in between a phrase
or sentence, just purely bytaking a breath.
(42:56):
So one, one trick that you cando is to use your nose.
So taking a breath in throughthe nose, also called the
Bottega technique, a Russiantechnique which has a more
direct connection to thediaphragm.
You're bypassing the vocaltracts because air is going
(43:16):
through the nasal passages.
So you're not bringing air inthrough the mouth.
So therefore you're notbringing cold air in and you
want to keep the larynx nice andrelaxed and warm.
So by taking a nice slow breaththrough the nose just gives you
a little bit of time again.
Take a deep breath and just tocenter yourself.
(43:38):
Give your listener, as you said,enough time to sort of process
what you've said yeah and alsoyour, your yourself time to
process your own thoughts andhow you're going to plan the
next phrase.
Dr. Leah OH (43:50):
So really yeah yeah , sorry that's so helpful yeah
and and that's a nice segue Iwas thinking about authenticity
and personalization when I waspreparing for our conversation
and I think, especially too, Iimagine, with your clients.
When people are learning to usetheir voice in different ways,
(44:13):
it sounds different to them, itsounds different to others,
others and you know, what do yourecommend?
So that, when we're working onvoice, that we still feel
authentic to ourselves and thatwe're we're conveying that
authenticity as well?
Jimmy Cannon (44:28):
I think.
I think the the authenticitycomes purely through your, your
own.
When it comes to a lot of things, it becomes.
You need to be very true toyour values.
You need to understand yourpersonality and to accept who
you are, your personality, whatyou stand for, your values, your
ethics, your morals, etc.
(45:02):
And then therefore, actuallylife becomes a lot easier
because your everything that youdo is is is to, is that there's
a song there everything,everything that you do, is
determined by your choice, yourvalues and what you, what you're
committed to doing, and why you, why you do what you do, mainly
(45:24):
your why or your purpose.
So, if you decide, you know whatI'm going to speak it up in
this meeting because I feel thatmy ideas should be listened to
and I'm really passionate and Iknow that these ideas are going
to make a positive difference tothe company or to the team or
to the project that you'reworking, whatever they might be.
So the authenticity is about isnot necessarily about
(45:52):
perfection, how within yourvoice, but what I.
What I think is interesting iswe can improve the way we
communicate.
We can use the voice as a tool.
It is an instrument.
All it's doing is accentuatingour, our own personality.
So, rather than, rather thanback off and avoid our voice,
(46:16):
why not embrace our voice andthe potential that it can do for
you with your life and throughyour role in your business or?
in your business and I thinkthat, again, having that
absolutely clean connection fromyour cognitive mind to your
(46:39):
body and vice versa, is reallyreally key.
So everything from the breathto the phonation, to the speech,
to the intention, to theprojection of your voice is
controlled and thought about andpracticed before it comes out
(47:02):
of your mouth.
I think that's really key and Ibelieve that that is a genuine
response to not my response, butthat would be a genuine
response to any communicationsituation that you might be in.
Dr. Leah OH (47:19):
Yeah, and that's so helpful.
And again, I really appreciateyou calling attention to the
preparation and, like you said,you're a trained musician.
In that I imagine people inperforming and performance arts
you recognize.
So much of the work happensbefore you show up to the stage
or the gig or whatever thatlooks like.
(47:40):
Happens before you show up tothe stage or the gig or whatever
that looks like.
And I think for a lot of folkswho don't have that experience,
they don't realize thatpreparation is needed or that
practice is why some people areable to show up in different
ways and to connect and inspiremaybe ways that they're not
quite there yet Absolutely.
Jimmy Cannon (48:02):
And practice, I mean.
Here's the thing.
I think that.
So I work with people that arethey've made a conscious effort
to commit to either coaching orCPD and they want to improve
their life.
They want to get a promotion,they want to be respected, they
want to be less judged, theywant to change the perception of
(48:25):
how they feel about themselves.
So part of that journey iscommitting to actions that are
going to change, that are goingto make that transformational
change in their lives.
So I suggest that people workon their voice, they work on
(48:45):
their self-esteem, which I helpthem with with their through
their confidence.
They work on their presence,their work, which is, you know,
presence.
Going back to that is fillingthe space, your body alignment,
how you connect with the breath,how you connect with the sound,
how you resonate through yourbody.
(49:05):
That's presence.
How you control the space thatyou're in.
There's loads of techniques todo that, but to practice all of
this, we have to go out thereand do it.
It's all very well.
All of this, we have to go outthere and do it, it's all very
well.
I'll give you the stereotype ofa musician who practice for
hours, practices for hours andhours in their bedroom,
(49:27):
obviously when they're younger,maybe, or even still now, right,
but but never goes on stage ornever plays with other people.
Being part of being a musicianas it is with a leader and as is
with a with a you know peoplewho work in in business.
They have to work with otherhuman beings, they have to work
with other people.
Being part of a musician isbeing part of a team and you
(49:48):
have to.
You have to listen, you have toappreciate, you have to
understand, you have to be ableto respond in them in an
appropriate way to a bass lineor groove or a melody or a vocal
.
You have to be playing around,you have to support the vocalist
(50:10):
.
If you're a vocalist, you haveto listen to the dynamics, you
have to lead the band.
There's so many integral partsof being in a band so I'm going
off piece slightly.
Sorry, leah.
Perfect parts of being in aband, so I'm going off piece
slightly, sorry, but the theperfect, okay, the con.
The concept is is not to stayin your bedroom and actually to
get out there, yeah, and startdoing some open mic nights or
(50:31):
start going to jam sessions, butin the business side of things,
the.
The similarity to that would beto maybe join a Toastmasters
group or start up a groupyourself where you get the
opportunity to tell stories, toput yourself out there, start
(50:52):
thinking I'm going to hold ameeting, I'm going to chair the
meeting.
Perhaps, if you have theopportunity to do that, give
yourself opportunities to speakas much as you can, in as many
environments as you can, andthat is desensitizing yourself
to the environment that you'rescared of, if you like, or
(51:19):
you're worried to put yourselfin in that you know.
Dr. Leah OH (51:22):
So taking yourself out of your comfort zone yep,
yep, not, not easy, butessential yes, absolutely.
Yeah, no, it's exactly yeah so,jimmy, I have two final
questions for you, and they'reum, they work well together and
this is how we end all episodesof the communicative leader.
(51:44):
So our first part of thequestion is what do you want to
leave our listeners with,whether a leadership or
communication tip, advice,challenge?
So it's for our title leaders,our folks who are managers,
directors, supervisors.
And then the second part of thequestion is just what do you
(52:05):
want to leave employees of, youknow, all ranks across all
industries, with?
Jimmy Cannon (52:10):
Interesting.
So I would say leaders andmanagement, I would.
I would focus on the pause andseeing how much space you can
(52:35):
create in between phrases toallow that natural space to
bring itself into that space.
So let me rephrase that I don'tknow about you, but I've
studied coaching.
I did an L7 leadership coachingcourse a couple of years ago
Very interesting, and even nowmy wife believes that I haven't.
(52:59):
My listening skills are evenworse.
No, I'm joking, but something Ilearned was to embrace the
pause.
Now, in speaking and in thevoice and singing and et cetera
and performing, silence isincredibly, incredibly powerful.
But in communication the pauseis really, really powerful,
(53:26):
because if you're talking to ateam member or colleague and you
want to find out moreinformation, the best thing you
can do is to shush and let themspeak.
And if you've got the confidenceto do that, to ask a question,
they answer, but it's normally asuperficial answer, it's
normally the surface answer,right.
(53:47):
And then you want to get alittle bit deeper, then don't
say anything for a couple ofseconds and they will more than
likely either paraphrase whatthey've said or or they will
continue on the same path, thesame journey, and they will give
you a lot more deeperexplanation of what you wanted
in the first place and that'sthe answer that you get.
(54:08):
So I think pause is really,really key.
The biggest thing that overallindustries with communication
would bear fruit to work onwould be using tone of voice.
(54:36):
I think tone of voice isincredibly powerful and having
access to different types ofvoice that you could use in
different situations.
So, whether that be asympathetic voice or be a more
authoritative voice or moreprojecting voice, that different
(54:56):
tone of voices can really helpin a lot of situations that you
might be in.
Dr. Leah OH (55:02):
Yes, yes, it is so much, not necessarily what you
say, but how you say it.
Jimmy Cannon (55:07):
Yeah.
Dr. Leah OH (55:09):
I was just thinking that when you were sharing that
example.
One of my kids is inkindergarten and sometimes I
volunteer in the classroom andthe teacher is a master with
tones of voice right andrecognizing, you know,
sympathetic or empathetic now,and authoritative now and just,
(55:32):
and there's so much to learnfrom that, because you recognize
that you are well, you'rekeeping people safe, but you're
getting things done and you'redoing it while maintaining and
strengthening relationships.
Jimmy Cannon (55:45):
Yes, very good, I like that, yeah, and that's a
tool that they've had to adoptpretty quickly, I would imagine,
to keep control over the class.
Yeah, yeah absolutely, yeah,fantastic.
Dr. Leah OH (55:58):
Excellent, jimmy.
I have thoroughly enjoyed ourconversation today.
I have learned so much.
I know there's so many thingsI'm going to be returning to,
and thank you for sharing yourtime with us and all of your
expertise.
Jimmy Cannon (56:13):
It was an absolute pleasure, leah, lovely to meet
you.
Dr. Leah OH (56:17):
All right, my friends.
That wraps up our conversationtoday.
Until next time, communicatewith intention and lead with
purpose.
I'm looking forward to chattingwith you again soon on the
Communicative Leader.
Popular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.