September 3, 2024 • 46 mins
“I would put tech language and technologies in simple terms. So I pull it apart, put it, and put it back into simple terms that other people would understand. Because with my many years experience of working with tech people, sometimes it's quite difficult for non tech people understand what they talk about. And to make any decisions to purchase, let's say, any software, anyone who's not technical has to understand what it is, what problem is solving. And this is where I come on board and explain people how it's supposed to be. Like, if you're not technical person, I would explain, as a, like your five year old put it in simple terms for you.”
Olga Bubnova
This month’s theme
Olga Bubnova, a tech marketing and branding expert who’s spent 13 years helping companies simplify and thrive. Olga’s not just talking theory—she’s actively transforming businesses by bridging the gap between complex tech and everyday understanding. From industrial automation to AI, Olga has a unique gift for translating dense technical language into clear, actionable insights.
In this episode, Olga shares her journey from translating embedded systems lingo into plain English to coaching businesses on how to present technology in a way that resonates with non-technical audiences. Whether you’re dealing with blockchain, cybersecurity, or just trying to make sense of software, Olga has tips that can help you break through the noise. Olga also unravels the common challenges faced by entrepreneurs and intrapreneurs alike, from the confusion of choosing the right tools to the paralysis that comes with tech overwhelm.
If you’re ready to transform how your business approaches technology and cut through the noise, tune in to this episode. Learn how to stay ahead without getting lost in the tech shuffle.
In this episode you’ll hear about
- What's different from normal marketing, and how does it help in the technology world?
- What were the words tech people were using that people didn't understand?
- How has Olga found, in her experience, the best ways to communicate technology to non-technical audiences? What are some major themes or strategies she focuses on?
- What are some steps that someone who isn't a technical person should take to understand a technology and translate it for the outside world?
- How would people within a software company, who aren't technical, go about learning things in the best way, do you think?
- How to help somebody reacting to tech overwhelm, how to facilitate a conversation to help them focus on the problem, challenge, or goal?
- Where should leaders look for insight and information about technological changes?
- How can leaders react more quickly to changes and adopt new technologies effectively?
- What advice would you give to entrepreneurs or leaders on setting up rituals that promote sharing knowledge about trends and technology within their teams?
Key links
About our guest
Olga is a tech marketing and branding expert, specialising in helping tech businesses stand out and attract new opportunities through strategic branding, marketing solutions, and powerful storytelling. Her expertise covers areas like industrial automation, tech start-ups, software development, blockchain, FinTech, cybersecurity, AI, and SaaS, and more.
Olga is also the co-founder of a start-up named Tech Femme Fusion and hosts the "Marketing for
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chris Hudson (00:05):
Hello and welcome back to the company road
podcast, where we explore whatit takes to change a company and
look at the stories behind thepeople that make those changes
possible.
My name is Chris.
I'm your host.
And today we're going to bediving into the exciting world
of tech marketing and digitaltransformation.
And I'm really thrilled tointroduce our next guest, Olga
Bubnova, tech marketing andbranding expert with an
impressive 13 years of globalexperience.
(00:27):
And Olga's made a name forherself.
by helping tech businesses standout in crowded markets and also
attract new opportunitiesthrough strategic branding,
marketing solutions and powerfulstorytelling.
Olga's expertise spans a widerange of things, and tech
sectors, including industrialautomation, tech startups,
software development,blockchain, fintech,
cybersecurity, AI, and SaaS.
(00:48):
That's a lot of things.
Olga doesn't just talk the talk,she walks the walk.
And as the co founder of TechFemme Fusion.
She's actively helping smallbusinesses adopt and leverage
new technologies to improvetheir operations, future proof
their businesses and staycompetitive in an evolving
digital landscape.
So you might also know Olga asthe host of the Marketing for
Tech podcast, which I'd urge youto check out as well, where she
interviews entrepreneurs andinnovators about their unique
(01:10):
marketing strategies in the techindustry.
And Olga is also a sought afterspeaker and event manager, and
she's shared her insights acrossvarious platforms and has
designed impactful products.
Digital campaigns for thosethings too.
So I can pop a link to all thatstuff in the show notes and you
can check it out.
But today we're going to tapinto Olga's wealth knowledge
about the intersection oftechnology, marketing, and
business transformation.
(01:30):
And Olga, a huge welcome to theshow.
Thanks so much for coming on.
Olga Bubnova (01:34):
Thank you so much for having me.
And it's really exciting becauseI think I'm the first time on
the podcast discussing not justmarketing and tech and diving
into culture and digitaltransformation of organizations.
It's going to be reallyinteresting and exciting.
Chris Hudson (01:52):
Yeah, wonderful.
There's going to be lots to talkabout, I think.
And yeah, let's talk about thisconcept of marketing for tech
first.
Obviously there's marketing andthere's technology, but you've
brought these two worldstogether in a way.
And, you know, what's differentfrom normal marketing and how
does it help in the technologyworld?
Olga Bubnova (02:08):
Great question.
And I think I want to startwith, my first marketing, my
tech marketing job.
it was around 14 years ago andit was an industrial automation.
That was my first experiencewith technology and the project
managers in particularly.
(02:30):
Who would speak a tech language,so you wouldn't be able to
translate.
If you don't understandtechnology, you won't be able to
understand what they're talkingabout.
Chris Hudson (02:37):
What were the words they were using that
people didn't understand?
Do you remember?
Olga Bubnova (02:41):
Don't make me try to remember those words because
it was about embedded systems.
It was about data centers.
It was about microelectronics,uh, different microchips.
So everything you could haveimagined that would go into the
tech for trains, factories,minings, and all that stuff.
(03:03):
My role was about translatingtech language into simple terms.
I would say that to explain toour vendors, to explain our
other people that we work with,what they're actually talking
about, what's the meaning behindall this confidence.
And that was quite challenging,but it's actually made me go
even deeper.
And during my career, learningmore and more about different
(03:27):
tech.
So going back to your question,what's the difference between
marketing for other businessesand marketing for tech?
Marketing for tech and.
Myself in person, I would puttech language and technologies
in simple terms.
So I pull it apart, put it backinto simple terms that other
(03:47):
people would understand.
Because with my many, many yearsexperience of working with tech
people, sometimes it's quitedifficult for non tech people
understand.
What they talk about and to makeany decisions to purchase, let's
say any software, anyone who'snot technical has to understand
(04:12):
what it is, what problem issolving.
And this is where I come onboard and explain people how
it's supposed to be.
Like if you're not technicalperson, I would explain as a,
like you're five year old andput it in simple terms for you.
So I think this is thedifference between It's quite
challenging if you don't reallyhave technical background, if
you don't understand tech, it'squite difficult to market it.
Chris Hudson (04:35):
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, that's great to explainthat.
And I think that, I can think ofmaybe a few other industries
that could do with that level ofinterpretation, kind of re
imagination of how they presentthemselves in the outside world
as well.
But technology, it feels becauseof its.
It's been evolving at such apace and obviously that speeds
up and up, you know, and withevery round of change that we're
(04:56):
now seeing, leaves a kind ofwake of confusion amongst people
that probably don't reallyunderstand it and don't
understand the change of whyit's happening and don't really
Talking in that way.
So I think of all of theindustries out there in the
sectors, I think tech feels likeone that does need to be
represented, in a different wayto the outside world and because
it's affecting everybody and inevery business people need to
(05:19):
understand it.
So I think it sounds like veryimportant work.
Olga Bubnova (05:23):
Well, absolutely.
You know, other people, theydon't have to understand every
single aspect of the technology.
They just need to understand thebasics.
And it's a little bitchallenging for them to explain
in simple terms.
You know what I mean?
Because They know what they'retalking about.
Others don't.
Chris Hudson (05:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And obviously it's not just thekind of outward expression in
terms of how you talk abouttechnology, but you're thinking
about the people that you'retalking to with that
information.
You're thinking about youraudiences, like you would with
any other marketing activity.
What are the insights behind thepeople that are receiving that
information and how can youtailor, that communication or
(06:01):
that, that engagement in someway to those groups how have you
found that in your experience,what's kind of coming up as some
big themes?
Olga Bubnova (06:09):
Well, I think I would consider myself as a
person who's bridging the gapbetween non tech and tech
people.
With my experience, if I canexplain it to my mum.
I can explain it to anyonebecause my mum is not really a
technical person at all.
If I can explain it to her, Ithink this is how I was training
(06:30):
on explaining blockchaintechnology.
So now my mum knows what theblockchain technology is and how
it works.
I mean, the really, reallybasics.
I'm not in the blockchainexpert, but I can understand
some of the factors and aspectsof that tech.
And my mum knows it.
Now, I think that's quite asuccessful story.
Chris Hudson (06:51):
Yeah, yeah.
There was UX, but they talkabout designing for eight year
olds, but not just eight yearolds, drunk eight year olds.
So, you've got to think about asmall child that's under the
influence of alcohol and whetheryour design is going to work in
some way for them.
It's a similar thing, but you'reobviously using your mother for
that kind of purpose.
(07:11):
Is
Olga Bubnova (07:11):
that a guinea pig?
Chris Hudson (07:15):
Yeah, yeah.
Does she get a lot of phonecalls?
Does she, do you use her quite alot?
Olga Bubnova (07:19):
I do, sometimes I do.
And, well Now she knows about AIand how it works too, maybe not
as much as I do, but she knowssome basic things, yes, and what
AI can do.
Chris Hudson (07:33):
And talk me through your process, there are
a lot of people out there thatwould really benefit from this
skill, because they're takingtechnological terms, talking
about them, but probably notreally understanding them that
much, but they're having totalk, now people feel like they
have to talk about it, andreally come across as if they
understand AI.
The technology and itsapplication, all the things that
you would do with it, for thepeople out there that are really
looking to understand it at adeeper level and then do what
(07:56):
you're doing to some extent whatwould be some of the steps that
you would typically take tounderstand the technology and
then go about this level oftranslation or interpretation
and preparing it for releaseinto the outside world as a
message in some way what aresome of the things that you
think would help?
Olga Bubnova (08:11):
If someone you mean, who's not technical person
and wants to learn more abouttechnology and how to understand
it properly.
Chris Hudson (08:18):
Yeah, probably.
If you think about say softwarecompany, there'll be people
within a software company thataren't technical probably
because they might work inpeople and culture or they might
work in a finance team and theyneed to understand what's going
on, but they don't really, theytalk about it, but without
really understanding.
So how would they go aboutlearning things in the best way,
(08:40):
do you think
Olga Bubnova (08:41):
that's a good question?
And I think they should startwith putting, forgetting about
technology and thinking aboutproblem solving, because quite
often what I see in a techcompany and you mentioned
software developers, quite oftenI see they start talking about
technology, the features theyhave, the coding, the languages
(09:05):
they use for coding, I alwayssay, forget about it.
People don't care how manysoftware engineers you have they
want to know, especially if it'syour potential client and you
want to explain what's yourvalue proposition, explain how
you're solving the problem.
Don't explain how you built it,because if they want to get into
(09:29):
details, you will go to, youwill go into details later on,
but let them think.
You, the only one who wouldsolve the problem.
So it's more about problemsolving.
It's more about challenges.
The software development companycan solve.
Rather than explaining how manyfeatures they have.
(09:50):
For example, we're using asoftware recording this podcast
right now.
I don't really care what sort oflanguage they use behind it.
As soon as the solver, like, youknow, the serve the purpose it's
recording, it's working nicely.
You can put a really niceepisode after that.
It's all the tech, all thefeatures we have is there.
That's it.
(10:10):
That's what we need.
We don't need to know the codebehind it.
We're not tech people.
And I think I would start withchanging a little bit of mindset
and get out there, go to a talkto different teams and saying,
okay, this is tech we have, andthis is how it can solve the
problem.
Help us to put everything insimple terms.
(10:33):
And market it out there.
You know, that's another thing Iwould say, and I, I heard from
somewhere and I reallyremembered and really resonated
with me that tech people andsoftware developers, any
engineers, they now need to haveskills on presenting on sales.
(10:54):
Not just being who's actuallybuilding behind, you know, in a
dark room with hundreds ofmentors and sitting and building
and writing a code.
Now they need to have, now theyneed to be agile and need to
have this presenting in salesskills as well.
Chris Hudson (11:11):
Yeah, I mean, it's a very interesting time, isn't
it?
Because a lot of technology in away is becoming more accessible,
which means that in the hands ofeverybody that didn't used to
know how to be able to do a lot,even on their phone suddenly
people are able to startbuilding apps and they're using
AI and they're kind of gettinginto the tools a little bit.
So at one point, It felt likewe're fronting a lot of the
(11:33):
technological advances andtalking about them, but not
having to actively work on themthemselves from a technician's
point of view or in engineeringor as a developer that's sort of
changing.
And then, obviously, thetraditional coders and the
engineers they're needing topresent their own personal
brands probably in a moreoutward ways than they were
before as well.
So it feels like there's a lotof changing part, you know,
(11:55):
changing parts and changingroles within the industry.
Is that something that you'reseeing as well?
Olga Bubnova (11:59):
Absolutely.
And you know what?
And another thing I would liketo mention, it's vice versa at
some non technical, technicalpeople needs to learn more about
technology because We usetechnology on a daily basis now,
especially with AI.
You don't need to understand howlarge language model works, for
example, but you need tounderstand if it's open source,
(12:24):
don't chuck your data into it.
Sensitive data.
You need to understand how thebasics just have this digital
literacy to understand howeverything works.
Because I, there was a funnysituation many years ago, and
one of my managers asked, therewas after 5 PM, I believe at
(12:46):
work, and she started panickingand saying like, Oh, what's,
what's the phone number of ourtech guy?
And so like, what's happened?
Maybe I can help you with.
And she was like, Oh my God, Ijust, I don't know, I don't know
how to send a PDF in via email.
I was like, what do you mean?
You don't know how to send aPDF?
(13:08):
She was struggling with a PDFfile.
She couldn't attach it.
So I had to go and download itto put it in my email and send
it to her.
And I was really surprisedbecause she never showed the
signs of that she's not capableof Attaching a PDF, I was really
surprised.
And for me, it's quite importantto see that other people have
(13:31):
this basic digital literacy.
So it's not just tech peopleneed to learn more about non
technical skills, presentationskills, sales skills, marketing
skills.
The other people need to put alittle bit more effort on
learning digital skills to belike a little bit more agile
with that.
(13:52):
Because that's a little bitembarrassing these days, you
know?
Chris Hudson (13:54):
Yeah, that's an interesting point, isn't it?
Because I feel like there mayhave once been a tolerance, or
more of a tolerance, for peoplethat don't understand the
technology.
I feel like now it's prettyexpected that you understand how
to do all those things.
And the training, in some cases,isn't Isn't that formalized?
It's not like you learn how todo Excel or you learn how to do
(14:15):
PowerPoint or, whatever thetype, whatever the software is
you're doing, there's so muchexpectation in the broader sense
for technology, just beingthere.
And you're understanding how touse it from your phone all the
way through to anything elsethat you would like use in a
boardroom setting, if you'retrying to set up the
presentation or whatever else.
Like if you can't do it, thenit's quite noticeable.
And like you say, it's quiteembarrassing.
(14:36):
So yeah.
How do we fix that?
Do you think?
Olga Bubnova (14:38):
Quite interesting question.
And I will try to answer it.
And I should have told myselfyears ago, never be scared of
asking for help.
So I think if you can't dosomething and sometimes the
simple things, they don't work,you know, that's the ironical
thing.
And I actually, had a couple ofsituation like this when my work
(15:01):
laptop just didn't work.
There's something happened.
I just like try too manydifferent things.
And I consider myself knowing alittle bit about.
Tech.
And I definitely can deal with alaptop, but something doesn't
work.
I call a tech guy.
So I'm like, can you please helpme?
As soon as he comes, a laptopstarts working.
I don't know.
That's the magic of tech peoplearound technology.
(15:23):
I don't know what it is, but atthe same time, never be scared
or asking for help.
When you work in anorganization.
I think our organization shouldprovide some basic training as
well.
Not everyone has to be on thesame level of expectations,
knowing different tools knowingdifferent softwares, not
(15:48):
everyone on the same level andorganization should provide that
training.
At least basic training forthose people.
And I think this is what we'retrying to do and break this wall
with tech confusion.
They explain the companies, ifyou don't have capacity and you
don't have employees.
(16:08):
Who actually understand the techwell, train your staff, train
your team, providing was a basicdigital literacy skills, provide
them with that.
And it's not really hard.
And now it may be, we'll takeyou a couple of workshops.
It's not that hard.
You can organize a videotraining as well.
(16:30):
So I think the organization orcompanies should think about.
Providing just the basictraining for people.
Chris Hudson (16:37):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's a hard one to kindof bring.
You mentioned a team of, I don'tknow, 20 people or however many
people it is.
Everyone's going to be atdifferent levels and they're
going to know different things.
And then it might be a bit like,you know, we're trying to
explain really basic things toeverybody.
So there's a sharedunderstanding.
I feel like the, It's probablythe same with, um, same with
product management and it's thesame with agile.
(16:59):
You always walk into the roomthinking that there are
different levels ofunderstanding and you're still
going to have to level thatteam's understanding in some way
by giving everyone the sameconsistent message.
For technology, it's the thingwhere, okay, so I'm like, 10
percent of the room might know alot and 10 percent of the room
might not know anything thatyou're talking about, but you've
got to bring everyone together.
(17:20):
So have you been in situationswhere that's, that's had to
happen?
Olga Bubnova (17:25):
Yes.
And it happened in one companywhen I, we worked with
Salesforce on daily basis.
So I could work with Salesforcewith my eyes closed.
And at one stage we had a changemanager who would explain, uh,
everyone, every new employeewould come on board.
(17:48):
They would get a training abouthow to work with Salesforce.
And then when she was gone, theydidn't have anyone to replace
her.
So I started actually learningdifferent things and asking
people, or how can I do that?
How can I do that?
So I ended up within a fewyears, I was working for this
(18:10):
company, ended up learning somuch about Salesforce that I was
putting a guide, a guidelines ofhow to use one part of the
Salesforce for the rest of thecompany.
And I think I remember there waslike a handful of staff who
would understand the sales forceon like sort of advanced level
(18:34):
and we would share the knowledgewith the rest of the company who
needed, like was the rest ofpeople who needed to work with
Salesforce too.
So don't be afraid asking.
For health.
This is what I was doing when Iwas learning and putting all my
knowledge together.
Yeah.
Chris Hudson (18:53):
Yeah, no, definitely.
And I think there's somethingreally nice in there as a
takeaway, which is around thefact that no matter how
technological you are, like ifyou're learning technology for
the first time, then you'restill learning about it.
For the first time, it's not asif people that are
technologically minded actuallyknow everything walking in life.
They're picking up a newsoftware application whatever it
(19:13):
is, they don't know that untilthey've tried it out themselves.
So people that are lesstechnologically comfortable, I
want to say, are going to belooking at those people
thinking, oh, they knoweverything, but actually
everyone is on their own journeyof learning in one way or
another.
And so all you have to do isreally start and take the next
step on that journey to then.
Become more technologicallyaware.
(19:33):
And in that example that yougave with Salesforce,
effectively, it's like faking ittill you make it right.
You're going, you're learning,you're learning, you're
learning.
And then all of a sudden youlearn, you know, more than
everybody else.
And you're running a course oryou're starting a business
around it.
That can be the beauty oftechnology because if you do put
the effort in and focus in on itand obviously develop an area of
knowledge or expertise, thenpeople really value that around
(19:55):
you.
Don't you think?
Olga Bubnova (19:56):
Yes, I absolutely agree.
You know, this was another,probably a personal skill that
is quite important when youstart learning and explaining to
artists.
I think I can be really annoyingperson because I actually like
to put everything in details.
Sometimes I go too much intodetails.
But it helps me with creatingdifferent templates or
(20:20):
implementation guides, forexample.
Chris Hudson (20:22):
Yeah, yeah.
And actually, I think from whatyou were saying before about the
interpretation and thetranslation almost of technology
and its language to somebodyelse who doesn't know.
If you are going into details,then you can see in real time,
really, how people areresponding to those things that
you're talking about.
If I describe to you blockchainin one sentence and you describe
to me blockchain in 10sentences, and we both look at
(20:44):
each other's reactions you'regoing to get more from my
reaction to you saying it in 10sentences, if that makes sense,
because you'll have explainedmore of it.
And that way can definitely be agood way to gather understanding
as to how it's being received aswell.
Olga Bubnova (20:59):
Yes, it's definitely helps within the
organizations or if I startworking with a client in, I
become a part of a team.
It definitely helps when I getinto detail.
I try to stop myself not to borepeople with details that are
important for my work.
You know, there's some detailsthat are not important for
(21:19):
people's work.
And I tried to actually stopmyself and filter the words,
filter what I say.
Otherwise people get lost.
Same as like with the techpeople.
If they go into details of thetechnology, it's just like, slow
down.
I lost you like 10 minutes ago.
Chris Hudson (21:35):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Olga Bubnova (21:38):
I think it's a balance of, you have to
understand who you need toexplain more or who you need to
explain less.
Chris Hudson (21:44):
Yeah.
Okay.
So you got the one minuteversion or the 10 minute version
ready?
Pretty
Olga Bubnova (21:50):
much.
Chris Hudson (21:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
In terms of how you deliverthat, is there a technique in
the way that you do it inrelation to maybe storytelling
and you giving a kind ofheadline up front and then
you're explaining everything andyou come back to it with, is
there a sort of like anarrative?
technique that you use, or doyou always start with background
and then build up to a bigexplanation or, you know, big
(22:12):
point that you're going to raiseat the end?
Is there anything that you findworks well in the way that you
communicate there?
Olga Bubnova (22:16):
I think it's a mix and you normally read a person.
You normally read someone who'stalking to, if it's like the
client and already know how, theway they receive the
information.
I already know how to talk tothem.
If it's someone new, notnecessarily it's a client or
someone else, I'm trying tocollaborate and do the project
(22:36):
together.
I normally read and understandhow they react.
I will try to start with abackground to cover in a short
version, everything, and thenasking questions, whether they
interested in learning more,whether they may be already know
this sort of information and Idon't have to repeat myself,
yes, it's.
(22:57):
Both, both.
Chris Hudson (22:58):
Yeah, great, great.
I mean, I think there'ssomething really valuable in, in
obviously not just talking atpeople, but using the
opportunity to listen quiteactively to, to what people are
saying to you before you startpitching your new technology
concepts or whatever it is tothem.
Because if you hear how they'reactually describing their
situation, their problems, theircustomers problems whatever it
(23:19):
is.
You can then.
Almost play that back throughyour pitch to some extent, and
that will create the connectionbetween what it is they've got
in their head and what it isyou're talking about in the
technology.
I think that can be reallyhelpful too.
Olga Bubnova (23:31):
Yes.
And I think there's my advice toany startups, whoever needs to
pitch the technology, try tomake it as short as possible.
Two sentences, make it twosentences.
Because you have 10 seconds tograb people's attention.
And if you pitch it for 10minutes, people are not
(23:54):
listening.
They stop listening like nineand a half minutes ago.
Chris Hudson (23:57):
And if they stop listening, what do you do to
hook them back in?
What do you do?
Olga Bubnova (24:03):
Well, I personally didn't really have that
experience, but normally if.
Person is not interested is notinterested, or maybe I want to
see myself that I've never hadthis experience.
Maybe I did My advice would bestart with a short version and
then go into A longer versionand if you see that you're
losing a person You probablywant to ask a question whether
(24:25):
are you still interested?
Do you want to hear moredetails?
Just wondering are we on thesame page?
But probably you just doublecheck with the person.
Chris Hudson (24:34):
The other one I want to ask you about, it's not
exactly the same, but it's kindof related.
It's around this concept ofoverwhelm because in a lot of
other conversations if we'retalking about the world of work
and sensory and all the thingsaround neurodivergence and the
conversation around that,there's this sense of overwhelm.
And you know, if there's toomuch, then there's too much and
you can't take it in.
So what have you noticed havebeen like the main situations
(24:56):
where, you know, from anoverwhelm point of view, it's
tech overwhelm because peopleare just trying to like, you
could see the rabbit in theheadlights, they're trying to
take in too much information.
How do you notice thosesituations and what do you do in
those situations?
Olga Bubnova (25:10):
I think you need to go back to the challenge.
So not to know and learn aboutevery single tech that out
there.
You actually need to go back andsay like, what's my challenge?
My goal.
What I need to achieve and thenprobably narrowing down a tech
(25:33):
and tools resources you need.
for solving your problem.
So you're going back to theproblem.
You're going back to thechallenge.
Chris Hudson (25:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And if you see somebody elsereacting in that way, then
obviously you can facilitate theconversation around that so that
they then start thinking notabout all of the information
that they have to take in, butthe problem, the challenge, the
goal, you know, talking in, insimpler, higher level.
Terms that people can get backinto a normal conversation about
essentially.
Olga Bubnova (26:00):
Yes, absolutely.
This is what I was trying to dowith my marketing for tech
business.
We began that if you need tosolve a marketing challenges, if
you don't run any marketing, youneed just a simple CRM.
You don't have to have a three,four, five different tools.
They just sitting there.
(26:20):
And again, it's all some toolsthat can be too complicated, too
expensive.
Okay.
It depends on the size of acompany, for example, if the
amount of data they have,there's some people that don't
understand.
They pay for tech so much, butnot utilizing it properly that
utilizing maybe like a 30percent of this tech.
Like, why would you need thistool to you paying so much money
(26:45):
for this?
And not really using it.
Let's say we had a conversationwith a company that's the, they
were having the Salesforce andusing the Salesforce and
Salesforce is quite complicated,advanced CRM platform, quite
customized and quite expensivetoo.
And the data was just sittingthere.
They won't do anything with it.
(27:07):
They're not buildingconversations.
They won't be following anynotes.
The data was just sitting is itwas a storage.
It's like, you don't utilizeSalesforce as a storage.
You need something simple.
If I see, and when I see this asa challenge for the company, I
(27:27):
try to understand like, okay,what do you want to do with this
data?
If you don't want to utilize, ifyou just need to.
Story it and from time to timeto use as a contact point, let's
say you send like EDMs, um,newsletters, um, emails, let's
go back and just use a simpletool that you will be paying
probably, I don't know, 50 amonth.
(27:50):
Not a few thousand dollars.
So you're going back to thechallenge and going back for
the, for your goal.
What are you going to do withit?
Chris Hudson (27:55):
Yeah.
And that comes down to theconversation at that point,
right?
Around what the requirements areand how are you going to use it
and what do you need?
And I feel like the decisioningin that part for any
organization is actually reallyhard because there are certain
people within the room thatobviously know the technology
and there'll be other people inthe room that don't.
That know it less, and I'mbasically looking to those CTO,
(28:17):
whoever it is, looking to thosepeople for the recommendation on
what the business should takeforward and business never
stands still.
So a set of requirements thatyou're defining in that time,
they might be correct for thiscurrent state of the business,
but they don't want to invest insomething they're going to have
to.
Rethink about in two years orthree years, they want to build
on it.
And so there might be a tendencyto basically buy the deluxe
(28:38):
version that has all of thesethings and to overpay.
But like you say you might onlybe using 10 percent of the
functionality if you're goingabout it that way.
So it's a hard one to swallow, Ithink from a commercial point of
view, because a lot ofbusinesses are having to over
invest upfront and that's howthe pricing models are designed
by.
You know, the likes of thesesoftware companies.
So it's a really hard one tonavigate.
(28:58):
Don't
Olga Bubnova (28:59):
you think?
Absolutely.
And from the company's point ofview, if they're selling it they
don't really maybe care too muchabout who's buying they had
onboarding session, they're nothaving any troubles, any issues
with that.
The way they use it is theproblem, right?
But for the company who isbuying tech, they need to
(29:19):
understand a few things.
What's the goal?
Like how are they going toutilize this tool?
Who is going to utilize it justto make sure it's not over
complicated for resources youhave in house.
If you have just the onemarketer, just to make sure that
this person is trained enough touse this tool properly, and then
who's going to maintain it,who's going to look after it.
(29:43):
Do you need a tech personspecifically, or maybe just the
IT person that will have an houra week just to make sure this
the tool is working properly, doyou need someone to maintain it?
Or you can from time to time tocall a company and say like,
Hey, I have a challenge.
This is not working.
It's going to be enough for you.
(30:04):
And what are you going to dowith it?
So it is a few things.
Who's utilizing, what are youutilizing for?
Who's maintaining and how areyou utilizing it?
I think it's quite simple.
As soon as you answer thisquestions, it becomes quite
simple for you to make adecision on What exactly you
need.
Chris Hudson (30:20):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's right.
And I think change management isprobably done in a more
structured way in largerorganizations, but some of those
key questions that you're askingwould be incredibly relevant,
obviously for any smallbusiness, it doesn't have to be
that all of those people thatyou mentioned are different,
that you're just basicallyassigning roles to maybe one or
two people as you weredescribing.
So, yeah, I think it'sdefinitely an opportunity to
(30:41):
think about that, almost that,that ownership of the technology
in one way or another.
And it's quite tempting with itwhen you're in those roles,
obviously, to just consideryourself as like a user.
But I think there's aresponsibility in a sense to
basically make the most of thetechnology.
If you're paying for it, you mayas well make the most of it,
right?
Olga Bubnova (30:59):
Yeah, absolutely.
And because these days, We dohave so many tools, people get
lost.
And as you mentioned beforethere's so many tools.
People just don't know.
They were like, there was thiscrazy eyes looking at those
tools and say, like, I don'tknow what to do.
Do I need to use all of them 50percent or just one tool?
(31:22):
That's why those questions needsto be answered.
And this is for small businessesthey never heard about.
Change management they simplydon't have a room for that in a
company with a medium sizeorganizations.
It's a little bit different.
So there's differentdepartments, they have
innovation, digitaltransformation, change
(31:44):
management.
So those areas are looked afterfor small businesses.
They need to be really smartwith how they utilize.
On human resources.
I'm not even talking aboutdigital resources, human
resources as well, just to makesure that your staff members are
comfortable with whatever youimplementing, whatever you
(32:06):
bringing on the table.
Chris Hudson (32:07):
Yeah, that's it.
Yeah.
I mean, You and I have bothwitnessed when it goes wrong,
right?
Technology's all there.
And like, you can be the bestuser in the world, but if the
technology is not working andthere's a bad day, then it is a
bad day, right?
There's a meltdown.
It works 99.
9 percent of the time.
And then all of a sudden there'snothing you can do.
Can't do my job.
It feels like that.
So that can be really hard forpeople to come to terms with,
(32:28):
particularly in a stressfulmument.
Have you got any copingstrategies for that kind of
moment in technology?
Olga Bubnova (32:34):
Well, always have a plan B.
I think when chat GPT wasreleased, lots of people started
jumping on board saying like,you know, we don't need anyone
now.
We don't need any staff member.
The chat GPT will do everythingfor us.
And then all of a sudden therewas outage.
I think it was like a year agoit was Optus outage and then
(32:55):
nothing was working.
I was like, okay, where is yourchat GPT?
So you always have to have aplan B.
On if something goes wrong, whatare you going to do?
It's like a risk assessment.
I would say if you, if we talk alittle bit like a bigger words,
risk assessment and saying like,okay, if one of my tool is not
working, what I got to do?
(33:16):
Am I using just an emailaddress?
And letting my customers know,but I need to know how to go
into a data.
If I can't send anything, but doI have an access to this data?
How I store it?
And there's so many differentthings.
Just have a plan B.
It just depends on thesituation, but have a plan B and
risk assessment in place.
Chris Hudson (33:35):
Yeah.
I think it's a good one.
Like we're talking about theaudience of this show are
intrapreneurs and they'rethinking about how they can make
positive change within theirbusinesses and the things they
can do to help.
So even something as simple astechnology and getting people to
all have a shared understandingof it.
And then, like you say in theevent of disaster, what is the
plan and what's the plan B andhow do we work if all of the
(33:56):
team is using chat GPT to do allof their work tomorrow?
If that doesn't work, how are wegoing to come up with work?
Yep.
Yeah, it's going to stop if wedon't know how to think for
ourselves anymore, then how arewe going to do the work?
Olga Bubnova (34:09):
Exactly.
Exactly.
And I think there's lots ofpeople maybe realized with that
particular challenge, like ayear ago, that people realize
it's like, now I can't reallyrely on technology, like a
hundred percent, you know, likeyou have to have this plan B.
Chris Hudson (34:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, it's interesting.
It's interesting.
Obviously my uncle in Germany,he was a car mechanic, right?
And he worked for Peugeot and hewas fine to the point that they
brought all these, the, youknow, digital systems and
computer systems in.
And then all of a sudden thatchanged the role of the car
mechanic.
And he wasn't that quick ingetting on board with some of
the new advances.
But nowadays, if you want to fixa car, you need to know how all
(34:48):
the computer systems work.
To be able to do it and run thediagnostic and everything.
Whereas if all of that failed,he'd still know how to fix the
car and make it drive, you
know, yeah.
I feel sort of like there's a responsibility
when it comes to thistechnology, a lot of things to
consider in its usage.
What are you taking on yourself?
What does it say about you whenyou're using it?
(35:09):
What do you recognize as yourown strengths and maybe some
gaps in your knowledge that Ithink we need to be aware of a
little bit about what we, youknow, how we're using the
technology and how we couldimprove its usage and not just
sort of jump in and use itwithout a break of thought.
I don't know.
What do you think?
Is it becoming one of thesethings that we have to be a bit
more careful about?
Olga Bubnova (35:26):
Oh, hundred percent, hundred percent.
And I think it'd go, we can goback.
To that part we were discussingabout the digital literacy, you
know, basic digital literacy, mybusiness partner says your
stuff, most likely your stuffalready using AI, you just don't
know about it.
So what you can do, you canteach your staff how to use it
(35:52):
in a smart way, just to makesure your data is safe.
The data of your clients issafe.
Your brand identity, your brandis not being compromised.
If you use a chat GPT, let's sayfor marketing, for social media,
just don't copy and paste it,you know, well make some edits.
Don't embarrass yourself becauseit, it gets the point when
(36:17):
people don't even think peopledon't even, uh, make any effort
to edit text.
You're probably, you, I believethat you saw on the LinkedIn,
this type of post where you cansee a clear chat GPT talking.
My point is just teach yourstuff.
Most likely they already usingit, but just at least explain.
(36:39):
How to use it in a smart wayjust to make sure that your
organization and everyone who'sinvolved in it are safe.
Chris Hudson (36:47):
Yeah, for sure.
For sure.
And I think that's another thingthat the intrapreneurs or
leaders should be setting upreally, if that's not in place.
I think that an acknowledgementof people using it, obviously,
but I think the safeguardingaspects, you know, it feels like
everyone is riding the crest ofthe wave a little bit.
They don't, There haven't beenany major backlashes from
companies using ChatGPT so far.
(37:09):
Anyway, I don't know.
Maybe that's a ticking timebomb.
Maybe it's going to happen.
That's going to be a big kind ofexposure of all of this company
data that somehow sits there andit's out of people's control.
But yeah, it's a hard one, isn'tit?
Who should be leading the changefor that?
How do they safeguard forsomething that's moving and
developing so quickly?
I think that's always been thecase with technology.
(37:29):
The point at which youunderstand it and you can start
writing policy documents and youput it up on your intranet, like
the technology's already changedand it's doing something else
and you don't need to startagain.
So, um, yeah, some of that canbe pretty hard to manage.
Don't you think?
Olga Bubnova (37:42):
I believe that a small business, it's.
It's a little bit more flexiblebecause they don't really have
this time to waste.
They need to make sure they arenot falling behind with medium
sized businesses.
With the organizationalstructure is quite big and
comprehensive and quitedifficult to understand change
(38:04):
to this organization toimplement any new change in this
organization becomes quitechallenging because it takes
time.
For anything you want to do forany innovation, for any change,
you need to get so manydifferent approvals and This is
where executives have tounderstand and keep an eye on
(38:25):
what's happening in the market.
You know how market behaves,what's the changes out there,
what's coming, always keep aneye on anything that's happening
in the market.
Because as I said, for largerorganizations take Longer to
implement anything to make anychange,
Chris Hudson (38:46):
looking for change and knowing where to look and
what information to trust.
Have you got a, have you got apoint of view around the leaders
and where they should be lookingfor that level of insight?
Olga Bubnova (38:56):
I personally stay up to date with trusted sources,
obviously different news.
Sources, I subscribe for a fewnewsletters, also follow
different influences.
This is how I stay up to datewith all the information.
Maybe not with every singlepiece of information, but at
(39:16):
least trying to educate myselfon a daily basis.
Probably reading more and nowit's everything digital, you
don't need to subscribe for aphysical magazine or newspaper
to get any updates.
Now you get them straight awayinto your mailbox.
Now you go into a LinkedIn oneof the most trusted social media
(39:39):
platforms for professionals.
You go to LinkedIn and lots ofpeople are talking about,
there's so many influentialvoices out there.
You know, they know before.
You actually open your eyes inthe morning, so they already
know what's happening.
This is the job, sort of, uh, tostay up to date.
I would recommend to followthese people, subscribe for
(40:00):
different sources, newsletters.
EDMs, anything like that.
That would be my piece ofadvice.
Chris Hudson (40:08):
Yeah.
Good advice.
Yeah.
I think we should all do a bitmore of that just to make sure
that we know what's going on.
And based on what you're seeingmaybe as we draw this
conversation to a close, whatare you thinking, uh, some of
the, the bigger challenges thatare coming up for leaders within
organizations what are thethings that people need to be
aware of and probably startthinking about.
(40:28):
More seriously, as big, bigthings to fix or any challenges,
anything like that,
Olga Bubnova (40:33):
they need to be ready to react quicker.
Every single day they have toreact, adopt and adapt to
changes quicker than yesterday.
Because two, three years ago, wewouldn't even think about
anything.
(40:53):
I'm not talking about AI.
AI already being there in someform of AI already.
For years with us, but somethinglike generative AI, you know,
there's a charge of your team,different tools for marketers,
creative people, for designers,like you have to be faster.
Now you have to be faster.
And it probably in the otherpoint I would raise with that is
(41:16):
have a conversation with yourteam, with your staff, because
if you didn't hear about thosenews, one of your staff members
probably heard.
They're probably tech savvies,let's say, and they follow
different influencers, as I saidbefore, they subscribe for so
many different newsletters, theyknow what's coming, they know
the changes.
(41:38):
Have a like, I don't know, 15minutes meeting and say there's
anything you heard yesterday orthis week or last month, that's
something that we need to payattention to.
Chris Hudson (41:47):
That's definitely worth doing.
And I think the power of manyand the collective knowledge of
many is also really powerfulwithin a business context.
So I'm always thinking, can youunlock different people are
interested in different things.
Can you bring those peopletogether?
Can you share learnings?
Can you, yeah.
So anyone in entrepreneurs outthere couldn't can be.
Setting some of those rituals upin a way where the knowledge is
(42:08):
shared and it just becomes partof the natural conversation and
part of the way in which youdon't just talk about the work
or the deadlines or the statusof this project but in a way
that allows for some of thesebigger topics and trends.
I mean, it doesn't have to bethat formal either.
You probably just talk about itover coffee or whatever, or if
something interesting came uptoo, it doesn't have to be an
agenda point in the meeting.
Olga Bubnova (42:30):
No, not necessarily, but it's good for
your staff as well, for youremployees.
So there's someone who willactually will feel valued, I
would say, just to bringsomething to the table.
You ask for the opinion and theexperience rather than telling
them what to do every time.
Sometimes there's this.
type of management still exists,but you ask them what's
(42:51):
happening.
Does anything interestinghappening?
Maybe you heard something.
Do you read about something?
Chris Hudson (42:56):
Yeah, definitely.
Definitely.
I want to also finish the chatwith your perspective on what's
exciting about this.
technology and maybe a story ifyou'd like to tell it around how
you got into technology just forthe listeners out there that are
maybe still trying to find theirfeet a little bit with
technology just so that you cangive an impression of what makes
you interested in it so thatpeople can hear that and maybe
(43:17):
they'll find it interesting too.
So what made you interested intechnology to begin with and how
did that all come about?
Olga Bubnova (43:22):
For me, it was probably a challenge.
And curiosity of just trying tounderstand how everything works
and more, I trying to digdeeper, like, you know, becoming
fascinating for me, don't afraidto be replaced by technology
because you will never, you'llnever be replaced by the
(43:45):
technology.
Because a human knowledge isreally, really important.
Only humans can say what's bad,what's good, and only humans can
make decisions.
Technology not making decisions.
They just help you withanalyzing information, put
everything together connectdifferent dot points.
(44:08):
You will still be that personwho will make a decision, but
don't be afraid of that.
You will be replaced by AI.
You know, there's another trendtrendy topic going around and we
will be replaced by technology,artificial intelligence.
No, AI is just analyzinginformation.
It doesn't make decisions.
(44:29):
So don't be afraid.
And, uh, you probably need tostay a little bit more creative
to think what's The differentways I can learn and explain the
tech, not necessarily tech, justwhatever I know and passionate
about.
Just be creative and curious.
Chris Hudson (44:46):
Yeah, I think everyone can learn from that.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I think there are differentresponses to something that,
that you don't know about.
This can be anything, right?
If you see something and you'renot sure about it, then you
might look at it and you mighttry and Understand it a little
bit.
You might fear it and you know,the fear instinct obviously
tells you to run in the otherdirection a lot of the time.
(45:06):
But in the case of technology,it just feels like there's a way
for it to become useful to you.
If you're open to finding outwhat that would be, I'd like you
to say, be curious, be openminded find a way to understand
it to the extent that you candetermine, you know How are you
going to use it yourself and howit might be able to help other
people within your teams aswell?
So, um, I think you'vesummarized it even better
Olga Bubnova (45:29):
than I
Chris Hudson (45:30):
said Hey, i'll just say i'm playing back what
you said, so um Olga, I reallyloved our chat this evening and
yeah I really appreciate thetime you've taken to join us
here on the company road podcastAnd yeah people want to get in
touch with you.
How would they?
How would they find out moreabout you?
And if they had a question,where could they go?
Olga Bubnova (45:50):
Really active on LinkedIn.
So you can find me on LinkedIn.
If you share the links, thatwould be awesome.
I also have my YouTube channel.
It's started growing.
It's Olga underscore B gain.
That's my YouTube channel andyeah, LinkedIn and YouTube
channel as my main platforms.
Chris Hudson (46:09):
Amazing.
Well, thank you so much.
I'll let you do what you need todo for the rest of the evening,
but yeah, really enjoyed thechat and thanks so much for
coming on.
Olga Bubnova (46:16):
Thank you so much, Chris.
Thanks for inviting me.
Hello and welcome back to the company road
podcast, where we explore whatit takes to change a company and
look at the stories behind thepeople that make those changes
possible.
My name is Chris.
I'm your host.
And today we're going to bediving into the exciting world
of tech marketing and digitaltransformation.
And I'm really thrilled tointroduce our next guest, Olga
Bubnova, tech marketing andbranding expert with an
impressive 13 years of globalexperience.
(00:27):
And Olga's made a name forherself.
by helping tech businesses standout in crowded markets and also
attract new opportunitiesthrough strategic branding,
marketing solutions and powerfulstorytelling.
Olga's expertise spans a widerange of things, and tech
sectors, including industrialautomation, tech startups,
software development,blockchain, fintech,
cybersecurity, AI, and SaaS.
(00:48):
That's a lot of things.
Olga doesn't just talk the talk,she walks the walk.
And as the co founder of TechFemme Fusion.
She's actively helping smallbusinesses adopt and leverage
new technologies to improvetheir operations, future proof
their businesses and staycompetitive in an evolving
digital landscape.
So you might also know Olga asthe host of the Marketing for
Tech podcast, which I'd urge youto check out as well, where she
interviews entrepreneurs andinnovators about their unique
(01:10):
marketing strategies in the techindustry.
And Olga is also a sought afterspeaker and event manager, and
she's shared her insights acrossvarious platforms and has
designed impactful products.
Digital campaigns for thosethings too.
So I can pop a link to all thatstuff in the show notes and you
can check it out.
But today we're going to tapinto Olga's wealth knowledge
about the intersection oftechnology, marketing, and
business transformation.
(01:30):
And Olga, a huge welcome to theshow.
Thanks so much for coming on.
Olga Bubnova (01:34):
Thank you so much for having me.
And it's really exciting becauseI think I'm the first time on
the podcast discussing not justmarketing and tech and diving
into culture and digitaltransformation of organizations.
It's going to be reallyinteresting and exciting.
Chris Hudson (01:52):
Yeah, wonderful.
There's going to be lots to talkabout, I think.
And yeah, let's talk about thisconcept of marketing for tech
first.
Obviously there's marketing andthere's technology, but you've
brought these two worldstogether in a way.
And, you know, what's differentfrom normal marketing and how
does it help in the technologyworld?
Olga Bubnova (02:08):
Great question.
And I think I want to startwith, my first marketing, my
tech marketing job.
it was around 14 years ago andit was an industrial automation.
That was my first experiencewith technology and the project
managers in particularly.
(02:30):
Who would speak a tech language,so you wouldn't be able to
translate.
If you don't understandtechnology, you won't be able to
understand what they're talkingabout.
Chris Hudson (02:37):
What were the words they were using that
people didn't understand?
Do you remember?
Olga Bubnova (02:41):
Don't make me try to remember those words because
it was about embedded systems.
It was about data centers.
It was about microelectronics,uh, different microchips.
So everything you could haveimagined that would go into the
tech for trains, factories,minings, and all that stuff.
(03:03):
My role was about translatingtech language into simple terms.
I would say that to explain toour vendors, to explain our
other people that we work with,what they're actually talking
about, what's the meaning behindall this confidence.
And that was quite challenging,but it's actually made me go
even deeper.
And during my career, learningmore and more about different
(03:27):
tech.
So going back to your question,what's the difference between
marketing for other businessesand marketing for tech?
Marketing for tech and.
Myself in person, I would puttech language and technologies
in simple terms.
So I pull it apart, put it backinto simple terms that other
(03:47):
people would understand.
Because with my many, many yearsexperience of working with tech
people, sometimes it's quitedifficult for non tech people
understand.
What they talk about and to makeany decisions to purchase, let's
say any software, anyone who'snot technical has to understand
(04:12):
what it is, what problem issolving.
And this is where I come onboard and explain people how
it's supposed to be.
Like if you're not technicalperson, I would explain as a,
like you're five year old andput it in simple terms for you.
So I think this is thedifference between It's quite
challenging if you don't reallyhave technical background, if
you don't understand tech, it'squite difficult to market it.
Chris Hudson (04:35):
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, that's great to explainthat.
And I think that, I can think ofmaybe a few other industries
that could do with that level ofinterpretation, kind of re
imagination of how they presentthemselves in the outside world
as well.
But technology, it feels becauseof its.
It's been evolving at such apace and obviously that speeds
up and up, you know, and withevery round of change that we're
(04:56):
now seeing, leaves a kind ofwake of confusion amongst people
that probably don't reallyunderstand it and don't
understand the change of whyit's happening and don't really
Talking in that way.
So I think of all of theindustries out there in the
sectors, I think tech feels likeone that does need to be
represented, in a different wayto the outside world and because
it's affecting everybody and inevery business people need to
(05:19):
understand it.
So I think it sounds like veryimportant work.
Olga Bubnova (05:23):
Well, absolutely.
You know, other people, theydon't have to understand every
single aspect of the technology.
They just need to understand thebasics.
And it's a little bitchallenging for them to explain
in simple terms.
You know what I mean?
Because They know what they'retalking about.
Others don't.
Chris Hudson (05:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And obviously it's not just thekind of outward expression in
terms of how you talk abouttechnology, but you're thinking
about the people that you'retalking to with that
information.
You're thinking about youraudiences, like you would with
any other marketing activity.
What are the insights behind thepeople that are receiving that
information and how can youtailor, that communication or
(06:01):
that, that engagement in someway to those groups how have you
found that in your experience,what's kind of coming up as some
big themes?
Olga Bubnova (06:09):
Well, I think I would consider myself as a
person who's bridging the gapbetween non tech and tech
people.
With my experience, if I canexplain it to my mum.
I can explain it to anyonebecause my mum is not really a
technical person at all.
If I can explain it to her, Ithink this is how I was training
(06:30):
on explaining blockchaintechnology.
So now my mum knows what theblockchain technology is and how
it works.
I mean, the really, reallybasics.
I'm not in the blockchainexpert, but I can understand
some of the factors and aspectsof that tech.
And my mum knows it.
Now, I think that's quite asuccessful story.
Chris Hudson (06:51):
Yeah, yeah.
There was UX, but they talkabout designing for eight year
olds, but not just eight yearolds, drunk eight year olds.
So, you've got to think about asmall child that's under the
influence of alcohol and whetheryour design is going to work in
some way for them.
It's a similar thing, but you'reobviously using your mother for
that kind of purpose.
(07:11):
Is
Olga Bubnova (07:11):
that a guinea pig?
Chris Hudson (07:15):
Yeah, yeah.
Does she get a lot of phonecalls?
Does she, do you use her quite alot?
Olga Bubnova (07:19):
I do, sometimes I do.
And, well Now she knows about AIand how it works too, maybe not
as much as I do, but she knowssome basic things, yes, and what
AI can do.
Chris Hudson (07:33):
And talk me through your process, there are
a lot of people out there thatwould really benefit from this
skill, because they're takingtechnological terms, talking
about them, but probably notreally understanding them that
much, but they're having totalk, now people feel like they
have to talk about it, andreally come across as if they
understand AI.
The technology and itsapplication, all the things that
you would do with it, for thepeople out there that are really
looking to understand it at adeeper level and then do what
(07:56):
you're doing to some extent whatwould be some of the steps that
you would typically take tounderstand the technology and
then go about this level oftranslation or interpretation
and preparing it for releaseinto the outside world as a
message in some way what aresome of the things that you
think would help?
Olga Bubnova (08:11):
If someone you mean, who's not technical person
and wants to learn more abouttechnology and how to understand
it properly.
Chris Hudson (08:18):
Yeah, probably.
If you think about say softwarecompany, there'll be people
within a software company thataren't technical probably
because they might work inpeople and culture or they might
work in a finance team and theyneed to understand what's going
on, but they don't really, theytalk about it, but without
really understanding.
So how would they go aboutlearning things in the best way,
(08:40):
do you think
Olga Bubnova (08:41):
that's a good question?
And I think they should startwith putting, forgetting about
technology and thinking aboutproblem solving, because quite
often what I see in a techcompany and you mentioned
software developers, quite oftenI see they start talking about
technology, the features theyhave, the coding, the languages
(09:05):
they use for coding, I alwayssay, forget about it.
People don't care how manysoftware engineers you have they
want to know, especially if it'syour potential client and you
want to explain what's yourvalue proposition, explain how
you're solving the problem.
Don't explain how you built it,because if they want to get into
(09:29):
details, you will go to, youwill go into details later on,
but let them think.
You, the only one who wouldsolve the problem.
So it's more about problemsolving.
It's more about challenges.
The software development companycan solve.
Rather than explaining how manyfeatures they have.
(09:50):
For example, we're using asoftware recording this podcast
right now.
I don't really care what sort oflanguage they use behind it.
As soon as the solver, like, youknow, the serve the purpose it's
recording, it's working nicely.
You can put a really niceepisode after that.
It's all the tech, all thefeatures we have is there.
That's it.
(10:10):
That's what we need.
We don't need to know the codebehind it.
We're not tech people.
And I think I would start withchanging a little bit of mindset
and get out there, go to a talkto different teams and saying,
okay, this is tech we have, andthis is how it can solve the
problem.
Help us to put everything insimple terms.
(10:33):
And market it out there.
You know, that's another thing Iwould say, and I, I heard from
somewhere and I reallyremembered and really resonated
with me that tech people andsoftware developers, any
engineers, they now need to haveskills on presenting on sales.
(10:54):
Not just being who's actuallybuilding behind, you know, in a
dark room with hundreds ofmentors and sitting and building
and writing a code.
Now they need to have, now theyneed to be agile and need to
have this presenting in salesskills as well.
Chris Hudson (11:11):
Yeah, I mean, it's a very interesting time, isn't
it?
Because a lot of technology in away is becoming more accessible,
which means that in the hands ofeverybody that didn't used to
know how to be able to do a lot,even on their phone suddenly
people are able to startbuilding apps and they're using
AI and they're kind of gettinginto the tools a little bit.
So at one point, It felt likewe're fronting a lot of the
(11:33):
technological advances andtalking about them, but not
having to actively work on themthemselves from a technician's
point of view or in engineeringor as a developer that's sort of
changing.
And then, obviously, thetraditional coders and the
engineers they're needing topresent their own personal
brands probably in a moreoutward ways than they were
before as well.
So it feels like there's a lotof changing part, you know,
(11:55):
changing parts and changingroles within the industry.
Is that something that you'reseeing as well?
Olga Bubnova (11:59):
Absolutely.
And you know what?
And another thing I would liketo mention, it's vice versa at
some non technical, technicalpeople needs to learn more about
technology because We usetechnology on a daily basis now,
especially with AI.
You don't need to understand howlarge language model works, for
example, but you need tounderstand if it's open source,
(12:24):
don't chuck your data into it.
Sensitive data.
You need to understand how thebasics just have this digital
literacy to understand howeverything works.
Because I, there was a funnysituation many years ago, and
one of my managers asked, therewas after 5 PM, I believe at
(12:46):
work, and she started panickingand saying like, Oh, what's,
what's the phone number of ourtech guy?
And so like, what's happened?
Maybe I can help you with.
And she was like, Oh my God, Ijust, I don't know, I don't know
how to send a PDF in via email.
I was like, what do you mean?
You don't know how to send aPDF?
(13:08):
She was struggling with a PDFfile.
She couldn't attach it.
So I had to go and download itto put it in my email and send
it to her.
And I was really surprisedbecause she never showed the
signs of that she's not capableof Attaching a PDF, I was really
surprised.
And for me, it's quite importantto see that other people have
(13:31):
this basic digital literacy.
So it's not just tech peopleneed to learn more about non
technical skills, presentationskills, sales skills, marketing
skills.
The other people need to put alittle bit more effort on
learning digital skills to belike a little bit more agile
with that.
(13:52):
Because that's a little bitembarrassing these days, you
know?
Chris Hudson (13:54):
Yeah, that's an interesting point, isn't it?
Because I feel like there mayhave once been a tolerance, or
more of a tolerance, for peoplethat don't understand the
technology.
I feel like now it's prettyexpected that you understand how
to do all those things.
And the training, in some cases,isn't Isn't that formalized?
It's not like you learn how todo Excel or you learn how to do
(14:15):
PowerPoint or, whatever thetype, whatever the software is
you're doing, there's so muchexpectation in the broader sense
for technology, just beingthere.
And you're understanding how touse it from your phone all the
way through to anything elsethat you would like use in a
boardroom setting, if you'retrying to set up the
presentation or whatever else.
Like if you can't do it, thenit's quite noticeable.
And like you say, it's quiteembarrassing.
(14:36):
So yeah.
How do we fix that?
Do you think?
Olga Bubnova (14:38):
Quite interesting question.
And I will try to answer it.
And I should have told myselfyears ago, never be scared of
asking for help.
So I think if you can't dosomething and sometimes the
simple things, they don't work,you know, that's the ironical
thing.
And I actually, had a couple ofsituation like this when my work
(15:01):
laptop just didn't work.
There's something happened.
I just like try too manydifferent things.
And I consider myself knowing alittle bit about.
Tech.
And I definitely can deal with alaptop, but something doesn't
work.
I call a tech guy.
So I'm like, can you please helpme?
As soon as he comes, a laptopstarts working.
I don't know.
That's the magic of tech peoplearound technology.
(15:23):
I don't know what it is, but atthe same time, never be scared
or asking for help.
When you work in anorganization.
I think our organization shouldprovide some basic training as
well.
Not everyone has to be on thesame level of expectations,
knowing different tools knowingdifferent softwares, not
(15:48):
everyone on the same level andorganization should provide that
training.
At least basic training forthose people.
And I think this is what we'retrying to do and break this wall
with tech confusion.
They explain the companies, ifyou don't have capacity and you
don't have employees.
(16:08):
Who actually understand the techwell, train your staff, train
your team, providing was a basicdigital literacy skills, provide
them with that.
And it's not really hard.
And now it may be, we'll takeyou a couple of workshops.
It's not that hard.
You can organize a videotraining as well.
(16:30):
So I think the organization orcompanies should think about.
Providing just the basictraining for people.
Chris Hudson (16:37):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's a hard one to kindof bring.
You mentioned a team of, I don'tknow, 20 people or however many
people it is.
Everyone's going to be atdifferent levels and they're
going to know different things.
And then it might be a bit like,you know, we're trying to
explain really basic things toeverybody.
So there's a sharedunderstanding.
I feel like the, It's probablythe same with, um, same with
product management and it's thesame with agile.
(16:59):
You always walk into the roomthinking that there are
different levels ofunderstanding and you're still
going to have to level thatteam's understanding in some way
by giving everyone the sameconsistent message.
For technology, it's the thingwhere, okay, so I'm like, 10
percent of the room might know alot and 10 percent of the room
might not know anything thatyou're talking about, but you've
got to bring everyone together.
(17:20):
So have you been in situationswhere that's, that's had to
happen?
Olga Bubnova (17:25):
Yes.
And it happened in one companywhen I, we worked with
Salesforce on daily basis.
So I could work with Salesforcewith my eyes closed.
And at one stage we had a changemanager who would explain, uh,
everyone, every new employeewould come on board.
(17:48):
They would get a training abouthow to work with Salesforce.
And then when she was gone, theydidn't have anyone to replace
her.
So I started actually learningdifferent things and asking
people, or how can I do that?
How can I do that?
So I ended up within a fewyears, I was working for this
(18:10):
company, ended up learning somuch about Salesforce that I was
putting a guide, a guidelines ofhow to use one part of the
Salesforce for the rest of thecompany.
And I think I remember there waslike a handful of staff who
would understand the sales forceon like sort of advanced level
(18:34):
and we would share the knowledgewith the rest of the company who
needed, like was the rest ofpeople who needed to work with
Salesforce too.
So don't be afraid asking.
For health.
This is what I was doing when Iwas learning and putting all my
knowledge together.
Yeah.
Chris Hudson (18:53):
Yeah, no, definitely.
And I think there's somethingreally nice in there as a
takeaway, which is around thefact that no matter how
technological you are, like ifyou're learning technology for
the first time, then you'restill learning about it.
For the first time, it's not asif people that are
technologically minded actuallyknow everything walking in life.
They're picking up a newsoftware application whatever it
(19:13):
is, they don't know that untilthey've tried it out themselves.
So people that are lesstechnologically comfortable, I
want to say, are going to belooking at those people
thinking, oh, they knoweverything, but actually
everyone is on their own journeyof learning in one way or
another.
And so all you have to do isreally start and take the next
step on that journey to then.
Become more technologicallyaware.
(19:33):
And in that example that yougave with Salesforce,
effectively, it's like faking ittill you make it right.
You're going, you're learning,you're learning, you're
learning.
And then all of a sudden youlearn, you know, more than
everybody else.
And you're running a course oryou're starting a business
around it.
That can be the beauty oftechnology because if you do put
the effort in and focus in on itand obviously develop an area of
knowledge or expertise, thenpeople really value that around
(19:55):
you.
Don't you think?
Olga Bubnova (19:56):
Yes, I absolutely agree.
You know, this was another,probably a personal skill that
is quite important when youstart learning and explaining to
artists.
I think I can be really annoyingperson because I actually like
to put everything in details.
Sometimes I go too much intodetails.
But it helps me with creatingdifferent templates or
(20:20):
implementation guides, forexample.
Chris Hudson (20:22):
Yeah, yeah.
And actually, I think from whatyou were saying before about the
interpretation and thetranslation almost of technology
and its language to somebodyelse who doesn't know.
If you are going into details,then you can see in real time,
really, how people areresponding to those things that
you're talking about.
If I describe to you blockchainin one sentence and you describe
to me blockchain in 10sentences, and we both look at
(20:44):
each other's reactions you'regoing to get more from my
reaction to you saying it in 10sentences, if that makes sense,
because you'll have explainedmore of it.
And that way can definitely be agood way to gather understanding
as to how it's being received aswell.
Olga Bubnova (20:59):
Yes, it's definitely helps within the
organizations or if I startworking with a client in, I
become a part of a team.
It definitely helps when I getinto detail.
I try to stop myself not to borepeople with details that are
important for my work.
You know, there's some detailsthat are not important for
(21:19):
people's work.
And I tried to actually stopmyself and filter the words,
filter what I say.
Otherwise people get lost.
Same as like with the techpeople.
If they go into details of thetechnology, it's just like, slow
down.
I lost you like 10 minutes ago.
Chris Hudson (21:35):
Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Olga Bubnova (21:38):
I think it's a balance of, you have to
understand who you need toexplain more or who you need to
explain less.
Chris Hudson (21:44):
Yeah.
Okay.
So you got the one minuteversion or the 10 minute version
ready?
Pretty
Olga Bubnova (21:50):
much.
Chris Hudson (21:51):
Yeah.
Yeah.
In terms of how you deliverthat, is there a technique in
the way that you do it inrelation to maybe storytelling
and you giving a kind ofheadline up front and then
you're explaining everything andyou come back to it with, is
there a sort of like anarrative?
technique that you use, or doyou always start with background
and then build up to a bigexplanation or, you know, big
(22:12):
point that you're going to raiseat the end?
Is there anything that you findworks well in the way that you
communicate there?
Olga Bubnova (22:16):
I think it's a mix and you normally read a person.
You normally read someone who'stalking to, if it's like the
client and already know how, theway they receive the
information.
I already know how to talk tothem.
If it's someone new, notnecessarily it's a client or
someone else, I'm trying tocollaborate and do the project
(22:36):
together.
I normally read and understandhow they react.
I will try to start with abackground to cover in a short
version, everything, and thenasking questions, whether they
interested in learning more,whether they may be already know
this sort of information and Idon't have to repeat myself,
yes, it's.
(22:57):
Both, both.
Chris Hudson (22:58):
Yeah, great, great.
I mean, I think there'ssomething really valuable in, in
obviously not just talking atpeople, but using the
opportunity to listen quiteactively to, to what people are
saying to you before you startpitching your new technology
concepts or whatever it is tothem.
Because if you hear how they'reactually describing their
situation, their problems, theircustomers problems whatever it
(23:19):
is.
You can then.
Almost play that back throughyour pitch to some extent, and
that will create the connectionbetween what it is they've got
in their head and what it isyou're talking about in the
technology.
I think that can be reallyhelpful too.
Olga Bubnova (23:31):
Yes.
And I think there's my advice toany startups, whoever needs to
pitch the technology, try tomake it as short as possible.
Two sentences, make it twosentences.
Because you have 10 seconds tograb people's attention.
And if you pitch it for 10minutes, people are not
(23:54):
listening.
They stop listening like nineand a half minutes ago.
Chris Hudson (23:57):
And if they stop listening, what do you do to
hook them back in?
What do you do?
Olga Bubnova (24:03):
Well, I personally didn't really have that
experience, but normally if.
Person is not interested is notinterested, or maybe I want to
see myself that I've never hadthis experience.
Maybe I did My advice would bestart with a short version and
then go into A longer versionand if you see that you're
losing a person You probablywant to ask a question whether
(24:25):
are you still interested?
Do you want to hear moredetails?
Just wondering are we on thesame page?
But probably you just doublecheck with the person.
Chris Hudson (24:34):
The other one I want to ask you about, it's not
exactly the same, but it's kindof related.
It's around this concept ofoverwhelm because in a lot of
other conversations if we'retalking about the world of work
and sensory and all the thingsaround neurodivergence and the
conversation around that,there's this sense of overwhelm.
And you know, if there's toomuch, then there's too much and
you can't take it in.
So what have you noticed havebeen like the main situations
(24:56):
where, you know, from anoverwhelm point of view, it's
tech overwhelm because peopleare just trying to like, you
could see the rabbit in theheadlights, they're trying to
take in too much information.
How do you notice thosesituations and what do you do in
those situations?
Olga Bubnova (25:10):
I think you need to go back to the challenge.
So not to know and learn aboutevery single tech that out
there.
You actually need to go back andsay like, what's my challenge?
My goal.
What I need to achieve and thenprobably narrowing down a tech
(25:33):
and tools resources you need.
for solving your problem.
So you're going back to theproblem.
You're going back to thechallenge.
Chris Hudson (25:41):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And if you see somebody elsereacting in that way, then
obviously you can facilitate theconversation around that so that
they then start thinking notabout all of the information
that they have to take in, butthe problem, the challenge, the
goal, you know, talking in, insimpler, higher level.
Terms that people can get backinto a normal conversation about
essentially.
Olga Bubnova (26:00):
Yes, absolutely.
This is what I was trying to dowith my marketing for tech
business.
We began that if you need tosolve a marketing challenges, if
you don't run any marketing, youneed just a simple CRM.
You don't have to have a three,four, five different tools.
They just sitting there.
(26:20):
And again, it's all some toolsthat can be too complicated, too
expensive.
Okay.
It depends on the size of acompany, for example, if the
amount of data they have,there's some people that don't
understand.
They pay for tech so much, butnot utilizing it properly that
utilizing maybe like a 30percent of this tech.
Like, why would you need thistool to you paying so much money
(26:45):
for this?
And not really using it.
Let's say we had a conversationwith a company that's the, they
were having the Salesforce andusing the Salesforce and
Salesforce is quite complicated,advanced CRM platform, quite
customized and quite expensivetoo.
And the data was just sittingthere.
They won't do anything with it.
(27:07):
They're not buildingconversations.
They won't be following anynotes.
The data was just sitting is itwas a storage.
It's like, you don't utilizeSalesforce as a storage.
You need something simple.
If I see, and when I see this asa challenge for the company, I
(27:27):
try to understand like, okay,what do you want to do with this
data?
If you don't want to utilize, ifyou just need to.
Story it and from time to timeto use as a contact point, let's
say you send like EDMs, um,newsletters, um, emails, let's
go back and just use a simpletool that you will be paying
probably, I don't know, 50 amonth.
(27:50):
Not a few thousand dollars.
So you're going back to thechallenge and going back for
the, for your goal.
What are you going to do withit?
Chris Hudson (27:55):
Yeah.
And that comes down to theconversation at that point,
right?
Around what the requirements areand how are you going to use it
and what do you need?
And I feel like the decisioningin that part for any
organization is actually reallyhard because there are certain
people within the room thatobviously know the technology
and there'll be other people inthe room that don't.
That know it less, and I'mbasically looking to those CTO,
(28:17):
whoever it is, looking to thosepeople for the recommendation on
what the business should takeforward and business never
stands still.
So a set of requirements thatyou're defining in that time,
they might be correct for thiscurrent state of the business,
but they don't want to invest insomething they're going to have
to.
Rethink about in two years orthree years, they want to build
on it.
And so there might be a tendencyto basically buy the deluxe
(28:38):
version that has all of thesethings and to overpay.
But like you say you might onlybe using 10 percent of the
functionality if you're goingabout it that way.
So it's a hard one to swallow, Ithink from a commercial point of
view, because a lot ofbusinesses are having to over
invest upfront and that's howthe pricing models are designed
by.
You know, the likes of thesesoftware companies.
So it's a really hard one tonavigate.
(28:58):
Don't
Olga Bubnova (28:59):
you think?
Absolutely.
And from the company's point ofview, if they're selling it they
don't really maybe care too muchabout who's buying they had
onboarding session, they're nothaving any troubles, any issues
with that.
The way they use it is theproblem, right?
But for the company who isbuying tech, they need to
(29:19):
understand a few things.
What's the goal?
Like how are they going toutilize this tool?
Who is going to utilize it justto make sure it's not over
complicated for resources youhave in house.
If you have just the onemarketer, just to make sure that
this person is trained enough touse this tool properly, and then
who's going to maintain it,who's going to look after it.
(29:43):
Do you need a tech personspecifically, or maybe just the
IT person that will have an houra week just to make sure this
the tool is working properly, doyou need someone to maintain it?
Or you can from time to time tocall a company and say like,
Hey, I have a challenge.
This is not working.
It's going to be enough for you.
(30:04):
And what are you going to dowith it?
So it is a few things.
Who's utilizing, what are youutilizing for?
Who's maintaining and how areyou utilizing it?
I think it's quite simple.
As soon as you answer thisquestions, it becomes quite
simple for you to make adecision on What exactly you
need.
Chris Hudson (30:20):
Yeah.
Yeah, that's right.
And I think change management isprobably done in a more
structured way in largerorganizations, but some of those
key questions that you're askingwould be incredibly relevant,
obviously for any smallbusiness, it doesn't have to be
that all of those people thatyou mentioned are different,
that you're just basicallyassigning roles to maybe one or
two people as you weredescribing.
So, yeah, I think it'sdefinitely an opportunity to
(30:41):
think about that, almost that,that ownership of the technology
in one way or another.
And it's quite tempting with itwhen you're in those roles,
obviously, to just consideryourself as like a user.
But I think there's aresponsibility in a sense to
basically make the most of thetechnology.
If you're paying for it, you mayas well make the most of it,
right?
Olga Bubnova (30:59):
Yeah, absolutely.
And because these days, We dohave so many tools, people get
lost.
And as you mentioned beforethere's so many tools.
People just don't know.
They were like, there was thiscrazy eyes looking at those
tools and say, like, I don'tknow what to do.
Do I need to use all of them 50percent or just one tool?
(31:22):
That's why those questions needsto be answered.
And this is for small businessesthey never heard about.
Change management they simplydon't have a room for that in a
company with a medium sizeorganizations.
It's a little bit different.
So there's differentdepartments, they have
innovation, digitaltransformation, change
(31:44):
management.
So those areas are looked afterfor small businesses.
They need to be really smartwith how they utilize.
On human resources.
I'm not even talking aboutdigital resources, human
resources as well, just to makesure that your staff members are
comfortable with whatever youimplementing, whatever you
(32:06):
bringing on the table.
Chris Hudson (32:07):
Yeah, that's it.
Yeah.
I mean, You and I have bothwitnessed when it goes wrong,
right?
Technology's all there.
And like, you can be the bestuser in the world, but if the
technology is not working andthere's a bad day, then it is a
bad day, right?
There's a meltdown.
It works 99.
9 percent of the time.
And then all of a sudden there'snothing you can do.
Can't do my job.
It feels like that.
So that can be really hard forpeople to come to terms with,
(32:28):
particularly in a stressfulmument.
Have you got any copingstrategies for that kind of
moment in technology?
Olga Bubnova (32:34):
Well, always have a plan B.
I think when chat GPT wasreleased, lots of people started
jumping on board saying like,you know, we don't need anyone
now.
We don't need any staff member.
The chat GPT will do everythingfor us.
And then all of a sudden therewas outage.
I think it was like a year agoit was Optus outage and then
(32:55):
nothing was working.
I was like, okay, where is yourchat GPT?
So you always have to have aplan B.
On if something goes wrong, whatare you going to do?
It's like a risk assessment.
I would say if you, if we talk alittle bit like a bigger words,
risk assessment and saying like,okay, if one of my tool is not
working, what I got to do?
(33:16):
Am I using just an emailaddress?
And letting my customers know,but I need to know how to go
into a data.
If I can't send anything, but doI have an access to this data?
How I store it?
And there's so many differentthings.
Just have a plan B.
It just depends on thesituation, but have a plan B and
risk assessment in place.
Chris Hudson (33:35):
Yeah.
I think it's a good one.
Like we're talking about theaudience of this show are
intrapreneurs and they'rethinking about how they can make
positive change within theirbusinesses and the things they
can do to help.
So even something as simple astechnology and getting people to
all have a shared understandingof it.
And then, like you say in theevent of disaster, what is the
plan and what's the plan B andhow do we work if all of the
(33:56):
team is using chat GPT to do allof their work tomorrow?
If that doesn't work, how are wegoing to come up with work?
Yep.
Yeah, it's going to stop if wedon't know how to think for
ourselves anymore, then how arewe going to do the work?
Olga Bubnova (34:09):
Exactly.
Exactly.
And I think there's lots ofpeople maybe realized with that
particular challenge, like ayear ago, that people realize
it's like, now I can't reallyrely on technology, like a
hundred percent, you know, likeyou have to have this plan B.
Chris Hudson (34:25):
Yeah.
Yeah.
No, it's interesting.
It's interesting.
Obviously my uncle in Germany,he was a car mechanic, right?
And he worked for Peugeot and hewas fine to the point that they
brought all these, the, youknow, digital systems and
computer systems in.
And then all of a sudden thatchanged the role of the car
mechanic.
And he wasn't that quick ingetting on board with some of
the new advances.
But nowadays, if you want to fixa car, you need to know how all
(34:48):
the computer systems work.
To be able to do it and run thediagnostic and everything.
Whereas if all of that failed,he'd still know how to fix the
car and make it drive, you
know, yeah.
I feel sort of like there's a responsibility
when it comes to thistechnology, a lot of things to
consider in its usage.
What are you taking on yourself?
What does it say about you whenyou're using it?
(35:09):
What do you recognize as yourown strengths and maybe some
gaps in your knowledge that Ithink we need to be aware of a
little bit about what we, youknow, how we're using the
technology and how we couldimprove its usage and not just
sort of jump in and use itwithout a break of thought.
I don't know.
What do you think?
Is it becoming one of thesethings that we have to be a bit
more careful about?
Olga Bubnova (35:26):
Oh, hundred percent, hundred percent.
And I think it'd go, we can goback.
To that part we were discussingabout the digital literacy, you
know, basic digital literacy, mybusiness partner says your
stuff, most likely your stuffalready using AI, you just don't
know about it.
So what you can do, you canteach your staff how to use it
(35:52):
in a smart way, just to makesure your data is safe.
The data of your clients issafe.
Your brand identity, your brandis not being compromised.
If you use a chat GPT, let's sayfor marketing, for social media,
just don't copy and paste it,you know, well make some edits.
Don't embarrass yourself becauseit, it gets the point when
(36:17):
people don't even think peopledon't even, uh, make any effort
to edit text.
You're probably, you, I believethat you saw on the LinkedIn,
this type of post where you cansee a clear chat GPT talking.
My point is just teach yourstuff.
Most likely they already usingit, but just at least explain.
(36:39):
How to use it in a smart wayjust to make sure that your
organization and everyone who'sinvolved in it are safe.
Chris Hudson (36:47):
Yeah, for sure.
For sure.
And I think that's another thingthat the intrapreneurs or
leaders should be setting upreally, if that's not in place.
I think that an acknowledgementof people using it, obviously,
but I think the safeguardingaspects, you know, it feels like
everyone is riding the crest ofthe wave a little bit.
They don't, There haven't beenany major backlashes from
companies using ChatGPT so far.
(37:09):
Anyway, I don't know.
Maybe that's a ticking timebomb.
Maybe it's going to happen.
That's going to be a big kind ofexposure of all of this company
data that somehow sits there andit's out of people's control.
But yeah, it's a hard one, isn'tit?
Who should be leading the changefor that?
How do they safeguard forsomething that's moving and
developing so quickly?
I think that's always been thecase with technology.
(37:29):
The point at which youunderstand it and you can start
writing policy documents and youput it up on your intranet, like
the technology's already changedand it's doing something else
and you don't need to startagain.
So, um, yeah, some of that canbe pretty hard to manage.
Don't you think?
Olga Bubnova (37:42):
I believe that a small business, it's.
It's a little bit more flexiblebecause they don't really have
this time to waste.
They need to make sure they arenot falling behind with medium
sized businesses.
With the organizationalstructure is quite big and
comprehensive and quitedifficult to understand change
(38:04):
to this organization toimplement any new change in this
organization becomes quitechallenging because it takes
time.
For anything you want to do forany innovation, for any change,
you need to get so manydifferent approvals and This is
where executives have tounderstand and keep an eye on
(38:25):
what's happening in the market.
You know how market behaves,what's the changes out there,
what's coming, always keep aneye on anything that's happening
in the market.
Because as I said, for largerorganizations take Longer to
implement anything to make anychange,
Chris Hudson (38:46):
looking for change and knowing where to look and
what information to trust.
Have you got a, have you got apoint of view around the leaders
and where they should be lookingfor that level of insight?
Olga Bubnova (38:56):
I personally stay up to date with trusted sources,
obviously different news.
Sources, I subscribe for a fewnewsletters, also follow
different influences.
This is how I stay up to datewith all the information.
Maybe not with every singlepiece of information, but at
(39:16):
least trying to educate myselfon a daily basis.
Probably reading more and nowit's everything digital, you
don't need to subscribe for aphysical magazine or newspaper
to get any updates.
Now you get them straight awayinto your mailbox.
Now you go into a LinkedIn oneof the most trusted social media
(39:39):
platforms for professionals.
You go to LinkedIn and lots ofpeople are talking about,
there's so many influentialvoices out there.
You know, they know before.
You actually open your eyes inthe morning, so they already
know what's happening.
This is the job, sort of, uh, tostay up to date.
I would recommend to followthese people, subscribe for
(40:00):
different sources, newsletters.
EDMs, anything like that.
That would be my piece ofadvice.
Chris Hudson (40:08):
Yeah.
Good advice.
Yeah.
I think we should all do a bitmore of that just to make sure
that we know what's going on.
And based on what you're seeingmaybe as we draw this
conversation to a close, whatare you thinking, uh, some of
the, the bigger challenges thatare coming up for leaders within
organizations what are thethings that people need to be
aware of and probably startthinking about.
(40:28):
More seriously, as big, bigthings to fix or any challenges,
anything like that,
Olga Bubnova (40:33):
they need to be ready to react quicker.
Every single day they have toreact, adopt and adapt to
changes quicker than yesterday.
Because two, three years ago, wewouldn't even think about
anything.
(40:53):
I'm not talking about AI.
AI already being there in someform of AI already.
For years with us, but somethinglike generative AI, you know,
there's a charge of your team,different tools for marketers,
creative people, for designers,like you have to be faster.
Now you have to be faster.
And it probably in the otherpoint I would raise with that is
(41:16):
have a conversation with yourteam, with your staff, because
if you didn't hear about thosenews, one of your staff members
probably heard.
They're probably tech savvies,let's say, and they follow
different influencers, as I saidbefore, they subscribe for so
many different newsletters, theyknow what's coming, they know
the changes.
(41:38):
Have a like, I don't know, 15minutes meeting and say there's
anything you heard yesterday orthis week or last month, that's
something that we need to payattention to.
Chris Hudson (41:47):
That's definitely worth doing.
And I think the power of manyand the collective knowledge of
many is also really powerfulwithin a business context.
So I'm always thinking, can youunlock different people are
interested in different things.
Can you bring those peopletogether?
Can you share learnings?
Can you, yeah.
So anyone in entrepreneurs outthere couldn't can be.
Setting some of those rituals upin a way where the knowledge is
(42:08):
shared and it just becomes partof the natural conversation and
part of the way in which youdon't just talk about the work
or the deadlines or the statusof this project but in a way
that allows for some of thesebigger topics and trends.
I mean, it doesn't have to bethat formal either.
You probably just talk about itover coffee or whatever, or if
something interesting came uptoo, it doesn't have to be an
agenda point in the meeting.
Olga Bubnova (42:30):
No, not necessarily, but it's good for
your staff as well, for youremployees.
So there's someone who willactually will feel valued, I
would say, just to bringsomething to the table.
You ask for the opinion and theexperience rather than telling
them what to do every time.
Sometimes there's this.
type of management still exists,but you ask them what's
(42:51):
happening.
Does anything interestinghappening?
Maybe you heard something.
Do you read about something?
Chris Hudson (42:56):
Yeah, definitely.
Definitely.
I want to also finish the chatwith your perspective on what's
exciting about this.
technology and maybe a story ifyou'd like to tell it around how
you got into technology just forthe listeners out there that are
maybe still trying to find theirfeet a little bit with
technology just so that you cangive an impression of what makes
you interested in it so thatpeople can hear that and maybe
(43:17):
they'll find it interesting too.
So what made you interested intechnology to begin with and how
did that all come about?
Olga Bubnova (43:22):
For me, it was probably a challenge.
And curiosity of just trying tounderstand how everything works
and more, I trying to digdeeper, like, you know, becoming
fascinating for me, don't afraidto be replaced by technology
because you will never, you'llnever be replaced by the
(43:45):
technology.
Because a human knowledge isreally, really important.
Only humans can say what's bad,what's good, and only humans can
make decisions.
Technology not making decisions.
They just help you withanalyzing information, put
everything together connectdifferent dot points.
(44:08):
You will still be that personwho will make a decision, but
don't be afraid of that.
You will be replaced by AI.
You know, there's another trendtrendy topic going around and we
will be replaced by technology,artificial intelligence.
No, AI is just analyzinginformation.
It doesn't make decisions.
(44:29):
So don't be afraid.
And, uh, you probably need tostay a little bit more creative
to think what's The differentways I can learn and explain the
tech, not necessarily tech, justwhatever I know and passionate
about.
Just be creative and curious.
Chris Hudson (44:46):
Yeah, I think everyone can learn from that.
Thank you.
Thank you.
I think there are differentresponses to something that,
that you don't know about.
This can be anything, right?
If you see something and you'renot sure about it, then you
might look at it and you mighttry and Understand it a little
bit.
You might fear it and you know,the fear instinct obviously
tells you to run in the otherdirection a lot of the time.
(45:06):
But in the case of technology,it just feels like there's a way
for it to become useful to you.
If you're open to finding outwhat that would be, I'd like you
to say, be curious, be openminded find a way to understand
it to the extent that you candetermine, you know How are you
going to use it yourself and howit might be able to help other
people within your teams aswell?
So, um, I think you'vesummarized it even better
Olga Bubnova (45:29):
than I
Chris Hudson (45:30):
said Hey, i'll just say i'm playing back what
you said, so um Olga, I reallyloved our chat this evening and
yeah I really appreciate thetime you've taken to join us
here on the company road podcastAnd yeah people want to get in
touch with you.
How would they?
How would they find out moreabout you?
And if they had a question,where could they go?
Olga Bubnova (45:50):
Really active on LinkedIn.
So you can find me on LinkedIn.
If you share the links, thatwould be awesome.
I also have my YouTube channel.
It's started growing.
It's Olga underscore B gain.
That's my YouTube channel andyeah, LinkedIn and YouTube
channel as my main platforms.
Chris Hudson (46:09):
Amazing.
Well, thank you so much.
I'll let you do what you need todo for the rest of the evening,
but yeah, really enjoyed thechat and thanks so much for
coming on.
Olga Bubnova (46:16):
Thank you so much, Chris.
Thanks for inviting me.
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