October 7, 2025 • 57 mins
The CopDoc Podcast - Season 9 - Episode 161
In an interesting conversation from Chandler, Arizona, Assistant Chief Jason Sieczkowski reveals the innovative leadership approaches transforming his department into what he calls "the Silicon Valley of the desert." As an IACP 40 Under 40 honoree who's spent his entire 19-year career with Chandler PD, Jason shares the philosophy that's helped him rise to overseeing all field operations: continuous improvement.
The discussion dives deep into how modern police departments can measure success beyond traditional enforcement statistics. Chandler's implementation of a real-time community feedback system (their version of "Yelp for cops") displays citizen ratings throughout department facilities, reinforcing that policing is fundamentally about customer service. With an impressive 4.73/5 rating, officers receive constant visual confirmation that their community values their work.
Sieczkowski's most powerful insights come when discussing leadership vulnerability. "Vulnerability equals trust," he explains, sharing how a formative experience shaped his approach. When a superior once told him, "I don't pay you for your opinion," he resolved never to lead that way. Instead, he creates psychological safety in meetings, explicitly telling teams that their honest feedback isn't just welcome but required.
The conversation explores Chandler PD's innovative succession planning, which includes extended transition periods for critical positions, and their embrace of lateral transfers from agencies nationwide. Perhaps most refreshing is Jason's perspective on generational differences in policing. Rather than lamenting changing work attitudes, he celebrates how younger officers prioritizing wellness represents evolution, not decline: "They're better equipped mentally, physically, emotionally to do this job than we've ever been."
Whether you're a law enforcement professional, aspiring leader, or citizen interested in police innovation, this episode offers valuable insights into how one department is balancing tradition with progress. As Sieczkowski emphasizes throughout: "Care for and value people. They are everything to us."
Contact us: copdoc.podcast@gmail.com
Website: www.copdocpodcast.com
If you'd like to arrange for facilitated training, or consulting, or talk about steps you might take to improve your leadership and help in your quest for promotion, contact Steve at stephen.morreale@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Intro-Outro (00:02):
Welcome to the CopDoc podcast.
This podcast explores policeleadership issues and innovative
ideas.
The CopDoc shares thoughts andideas as he talks with leaders
in policing communities,academia and other government
agencies.
And now please join Dr SteveMorreale and industry thought
(00:25):
leaders as they share theirinsights and experience on the
CopDoc podcast.
Steve Morreale (00:33):
Hey everybody, steve Morreale coming to you
again and this is the CopDocpodcast.
I am in Hilton Head Island,south Carolina, today and I'm
going out to Arizona and we'regoing to be talking to Jason
Sikowski and he is an assistantchief at Chandler, arizona.
Hello there, jason.
How are you?
Jason Sieczkowski (00:51):
I'm well.
Good morning, how are you?
Steve Morreale (00:52):
Well, we had some technical difficulties but
we worked through them.
I am doing fine.
I'm glad to finally connectwith you.
I think what's important iswhat drew me to you is me paying
attention to IACP's 40 40.
And this year's just came out,ironically, so I'm going to
reach out to a few others.
But you were named a few yearsago as one of the 40 under 40.
(01:13):
Are you still under 40?
Jason Sieczkowski (01:16):
No, sir, I'm 41 now.
Steve Morreale (01:18):
All right, all right, so you don't qualify
anymore but you got in justunder the wire.
Well, at the time you werecommander.
You were now an assistant chiefin Chandler, so thank you for
joining us.
You've been listening to thepodcast they know once in a
while, and what I'd like you todo is to tell the audience about
Chandler, arizona.
What is it?
How big is the organization?
How big is the city?
Where is it located in Arizona?
Jason Sieczkowski (01:41):
Yeah, we're a beautiful city in the desert
southwest.
We are the city of innovation.
We like to call ourselves theSilicon Valley of the desert,
which is kind of fun because Igrew up in San Francisco,
california, so I came from theoriginal Silicon Valley to the
one where it's a little more dryand desert-like City-wise.
We've got about 280,000 to290,000 residents right now,
(02:02):
which is shy of 300,000.
We're sitting right around 348sworn officers and 191
professional staff.
But it's a beautiful communityso we welcome everyone to come
out and visit us.
We're building lots of homesand we have jobs available, so
come on out.
Steve Morreale (02:17):
Good to hear.
Well, the Sunbelt and even downhere in the South, there's so
many opportunities and so manypeople are moving in this area,
so I understand that.
How long have you been onChandler?
Jason Sieczkowski (02:27):
I just hit 19 years in August.
Actually, I'm just shy of my 20.
Is this where you startedpolicing?
It is.
It was the only agency I evenapplied for, believe it or not.
Steve Morreale (02:37):
Was it the only agency that would take you?
Is that the reason, Jason?
Jason Sieczkowski (02:40):
No, no, I don't think I was a hot
commodity.
Out of the thousand or sopeople I applied with, we hired
two out of that group, so I wasvery blessed to get this
opportunity Very competitive.
Steve Morreale (02:52):
Well, what drew you to the desert?
Jason Sieczkowski (02:56):
You know, I came down here for school, Steve
.
My dream was to teach golflessons.
That was why I moved down here.
I was in ASU's ProfessionalGolf Management Program for
about a semester Quicklyrealized that while golf is a
passion of mine, it was notgoing to be my passion.
It was more of a fun sport forme on the weekend, so quickly
changed over to degree programs,ended up getting a degree in
(03:17):
agricultural business anddecided that business wasn't
going to be the route for meeither.
And here you are decided thatbusiness wasn't going to be the
route for me either.
I was doing an internshipactually down in Phoenix and saw
Phoenix PD arresting someoneoutside my window and I thought
that'd be a good career.
I should try that Just becauseof an arrest.
Yes, I was watching Phoenix.
(03:38):
I thought the lights look cooland I go.
Man, that looks like a lot offun.
Steve Morreale (03:42):
And you're not sitting behind a desk, you're
not picking corn or planting it.
That's pretty neat.
So here you are, and you haverisen in 19 years to be the
assistant chief.
And do you have field ops?
Jason Sieczkowski (03:56):
I do.
I've got all of uniformservices, so it's if you're in
uniform, you pretty much fallunder my bureau, which is a lot
If you're in uniform, you prettymuch fall under my bureau,
which is a lot.
So talk about the layout, thehierarchy of the department and
(04:17):
what units you have, whatsections you have.
So obviously we have the chiefof police.
That's above me.
We have three assistant chiefs,so it's myself, chris Perez and
Melissa DeAnda.
I've got field operations, soI've got three precincts.
We have our downtown precinct,which is where I come to you
today from.
We have our west substation andour south substation, and each
of those precincts have 18 teams.
So at some point we got 18patrol teams in the city, and
(04:40):
then outside of those patrolteams, I have our detention
services bureau.
I have swat, um, I have all ofour training bureau which houses
field, and then outside ofthose patrol teams, I have our
Detention Services Bureau.
I have SWAT, I have all of ourtraining bureau, which houses
field training, firearmstraining, basic training,
advanced training.
I've got school resourceofficers, and then I have our
behavioral health unit that doesa lot of the mental health
(05:00):
pickups in our city, and thenI've also got peer support,
wellness.
So I've got a whole gamut ofkind of a broad, eclectic
spectrum of units and divisionsthat fall underneath me.
So it's a good time.
Steve Morreale (05:13):
Are you liking it?
Jason Sieczkowski (05:15):
I love it.
I absolutely love it.
Field ops is where my heartlies.
When I was a commander and theinterim assistant chief, I had
the investigations bureau.
It was a great time.
I had a lot of fun.
And assistant chief, I had theinvestigations bureau.
It was a great time.
I had a lot of fun anddefinitely learned a lot about
what they do.
But I've never been a detective, I've never been inside that
bureau until I got to be thecommander and then the interim
assistant chief.
Coming back to field ops, itwas like a dream come true.
(05:37):
This is home.
Steve Morreale (05:39):
That's great.
Well, having done it for solong and loved it and believed
in it, why don't you tell mewhat your approach is?
So you were a commander andthen you were promoted to be an
assistant chief and now you'reresponsible for the uniform
branch and you're sitting around.
Obviously, you have some bossesunderneath you.
(06:02):
Some bosses underneath you.
Tell me about how you came toapproach your meetings and your
sit-downs and setting yourexpectations and getting people
sort of aligned to bemission-oriented.
Jason Sieczkowski (06:21):
That's a great question.
It's really about tailoringmessaging to each individual,
each individual commander.
That falls under me.
Now.
We did something a little uniquethis year in field ops, sat
down with all the commandersover the precincts and we came
up with a standardized set ofgoals for field operations for
(06:41):
the patrol side of our house.
Historically, what we've doneis we've had kind of disparate
goals and it can vary down tothe team level, the district
level or the precinct level, andthere was always this kind of
feeling of inequity acrosspatrol.
So this year what we did is wetook a data-driven approach and
then we looked at okay, what arethe averages of traffic stops,
(07:03):
subject stops, communitycontacts, proactive work and
just some other measurables.
We looked at that data, came upwith what the commanders and
myself felt was a reasonablemetric and we outlined that and
sent that out to all of patrol.
We tried to come up with justsomething that was a baseline
that we felt everyone couldachieve but would still push
(07:25):
them a little bit out of theircomfort zone.
Understanding their main job isobviously responding to those
emergency calls for service, butwe've done a lot of things in
Chandler to take a lot of thatworkload off of their plate
maybe some of those lower levelcalls for service that consume a
lot of time.
So what we've done with this isnow I want you to focus on
being a proactive cop, Sincewe've taken a lot of burglaries,
(07:47):
low-level traffic collisions,out of their house.
Now I want you to go beproactive.
We're blessed to work in a citythat supports that kind of work
.
We want aggressive cops thatensure our city and community
stays safe, and so that's whatwe've really pushed in and out
onto them.
As far as the commanders, it's avery simple concept for me and
I try to make it as easy aspossible.
(08:08):
I push them to have acommitment to continuous
improvement.
That is the goal for themAlways be pushing boundaries of
what we can do, asking for newthings, asking your people to
try new things.
We don't want to stagnate.
We don't want to stay still andcoast.
We're going to definitely pushthe boundaries.
In a city of innovation, weshould be on the forefront of
(08:29):
that, and that's really our goal, and that's how I kind of
tailor my message to all of mycommanders every single day.
What are we doing to improvenow?
Steve Morreale (08:38):
So where does that come from?
Was that internal?
Were you around other peoplewho had that same mindset?
It seems to me that you knowyou are a lifer at Chandler, and
yet I'd be curious to knowwhere you catch new ideas.
Maybe it's with the IACP, ormaybe it's with the Chiefs
Association, or reading.
(09:00):
My question is you know what?
What pushes the boundaries foryou, for jason?
Jason Sieczkowski (09:07):
the answer is yes to all of that.
I like to joke lovingly that wedon't come up with any original
ideas.
We just steal them from otherpeople.
That's okay.
It's about leveragingrelationships, leveraging those
networks that we buildthroughout this entire career.
It's through organizations likethe FBI and Northwestern
Command College.
Iacp, the Arizona ChiefsAssociation.
(09:29):
I'm also a member, justrandomly, of the Florida Chiefs
Association because it's a goodway to get a new perspective
from the East Coast and theywould let me in.
I reached out to a number ofother chiefs associations and
they said well, if you don'tlive here, you can't really be a
part of it, but florida floridawas desperate and they brought
you in huh like hey, come onboard, why not?
that's great pay my money and Iget to go see what they're
(09:51):
talking about on the floridachiefs board, and it opens up
another avenue of ideas andinnovation, even if they're
doing the same things.
That we are right.
This cop work is the same nomatter where you go Calls for
service, the challenges thatcities deal with but the
approach to addressing some ofthose things varies
geographically, and why wouldn'twe look to that?
(10:15):
It's a perspective I've neverhad, growing up on the West
Coast and then spending myentire adult life in Arizona.
We're always looking for thosenew ideas.
Steve Morreale (10:23):
I'm glad to hear that, because sometimes you
have people who almost haveblinders on and they just become
sort of insular.
So the lesson I'm hearing fromyou is reach out to others,
because other people are doingit, but they may just have a
just a slightly differentperspective that we can adapt,
because to me, a leader issomebody who looks at material
(10:45):
and looks to figure out how toadapt it for them.
And I would presume and that'sa presumption on my part, jason,
but that when you're looking atdocumentation or reading, it's
not always from the policesector.
Is that true?
Jason Sieczkowski (11:02):
It's absolutely true.
We support classes throughArizona State University.
It's integrating with ournon-governmental partners.
Intel's a big driver ofinnovation in our city, so we
try to partner with them.
How are you leveraging whatyou're doing in your industry
and how can we translate thatinto the public sector of
government work?
(11:23):
It really comes down to justcollaborating with all sides of
industry because ultimatelywe're all kind of dealing with
the same things.
Steve Morreale (11:31):
Well, that's interesting and it seems that
many, many years ago I was I waslucky, when I was in the
business, to take advantage ofthe bootstrap program, which was
an IACP program, and what theywere doing, well before its time
I think.
They were reaching out toindustry leaders insurance,
banking, healthcare and sayingwould you be willing to grab a
(11:53):
couple of law enforcement peopleto your training for leadership
?
Because, as you understand, yes, leadership and policing is a
little bit different because ofwhat we do day to day, but
leadership is just about peopleand about motivating people, and
so that's interesting.
When you said Intel, you'retalking about the Intel
Corporation.
Yes, sir, ah, I see, yeah, thatmakes an awful lot of sense
(12:15):
because clearly they're pushingpeople for innovation, and that
makes me think about I had justwritten a book.
It is called Leading Police withAI your Thought Partner
Enhancing Strategic Thinking,productivity and Creativity, or
Innovation, and I think that'sexactly what we have to do.
You're pushing the envelope andI love to hear that.
We're talking to Jason Sikowskiand he is an assistant chief in
(12:37):
Chandler, arizona, but one ofthe things I wonder, one of the
things I wonder Jason, is whatmotivates you to never stand or
rest on your laurels, to alwaysbe moving forward and always be
looking for innovative ideas.
Jason Sieczkowski (12:57):
I want to leave the place better than I
showed up here.
I look back over 19 years and Ithink to what we had when I
started in 2006, to where we'vecome now and really just the
innovation that's taken placeacross those 19 years and the
drivers that have gotten usthere, and if we didn't have
those people in place, we wouldnever be where we are now.
I want to be one of thosepeople.
(13:17):
I want to be driving theorganization forward, on the
cutting edge.
I want to be the beacon forother agencies to look to and
say okay, the city of Chandleris doing this.
How can we now do this too?
It's leveraging real-time,leveraging AI, like you just
mentioned, utilizing non-swornstaff to take calls for service
(13:39):
away from our sworn staff, wherethey can then focus on things
that cops need to focus on.
It's being on the forefront ofthat innovation.
It's driving the businessforward and really just pushing
us into that new, new era.
We're looking at a significantgenerational shift across the
industry right now.
Um, and, quite frankly, it's.
I don't know if we'll go intothis, but it's one of the
(14:01):
struggles we're facing, where wehonor tradition, but sometimes
we're too married to it as well,and we need to break free from
that.
Tradition is there for a reason.
Tradition is fantastic and it'sgot its place.
But just because we've alwaysdone it that way, we can't
continue to do it that way.
We'd still be carrying realguns, we wouldn't have computers
in cars, we wouldn't have cellphones, we wouldn't have a
(14:22):
real-time prime, you wouldn'thave drone as first responder
right now if we stayed stagnant.
So, really, what does it looklike in five years from now, in
10 years from now, and how can Ihelp set us up and my team to
get us into that new era?
Steve Morreale (14:36):
One of the things that I espouse, and I
believe that a leader, a trueleader, is really not focused on
themselves anymore, but focusedon the other people around them
, and I have a belief that whoyou leave in your wake is sort
of your legacy in a lot of ways.
In other words, who are you,who are your commanders looking
(14:58):
to develop so that theorganization can be sustained?
Not in your own likeness, butsomebody who is willing to take
on responsibility and givingthem that opportunity.
Talk about that in your life.
Jason Sieczkowski (15:12):
I think it's a great question.
So it's one of our currentthings that we're embarking on.
We discovered historicallywe've had a lot of single points
of fit and receive where ifsomebody I think we're pretty
not unique in this arena, that Ithink it's over half of our
department could retire today ifthey wanted to, just based on
tenure and kind of how the cyclehas gone through hiring, some
(15:32):
evolutions of budgets and allthe other things that play into
that.
So we see that someone couldleave tomorrow and what kind of
institutional, organizationalknowledge are they taking with
them?
And what we've seenhistorically is we haven't done
a good job of, I guess,implementing that succession
planning to ensure that thatknowledge is passed down and
(15:53):
that the person that next fillstheir seat can basically hit the
ground running.
That's one of the things wejust did.
I just opened up a sergeantposition in our advanced
training unit.
That sergeant that's in thatseat right now retires end of
June of 2026.
We're going to identify thatnew sergeant this month and give
them almost a year of lead uptime.
Now they won't fill that seat.
(16:14):
They're still going to be inpatrol or in detectives.
Wherever they're going to comefrom, they'll still be in that
seat, but we're going to bringthem into as we build out the
training calendar for 2026,we're going to start sending
them to all those certificationclasses that they'll need to be
successful in that role.
Understanding that 11 months oflead up time is probably pretty
(16:36):
close to what it's going totake to ensure we have
continuity of operations.
So as we look to do that, we'redoing that through all ranks
now.
It's right now.
My next sergeant that's on thelist is riding full time with a
sergeant right now acting as anofficer in charge.
He's going to get promoted,probably end of October.
Steve Morreale (16:54):
So this is, this is almost a field training
sergeant.
Jason Sieczkowski (16:58):
So he's going to.
He's in detectives right now.
They can spare his position andhis fellow detectives can pick
up his caseload, his workload,and we can put him with a
sergeant right now to basicallywork through that entire field
training process.
So when one sergeant retireshe'll come in, fill that seat
and he hits the ground runningtaking over patrol squad.
This is one of our long-termgoals that our new chief chief
(17:21):
Chapman has really pushed us tointegrate into the organization
is long-term succession planningthat overlap in the long runway
.
So that's kind of where we'regoing with that.
Steve Morreale (17:32):
Yeah, that's amazingly unique.
I have to say, at least to thenumber of people I have
interviewed, that I don't hearan awful lot of that.
The military does pretty muchthe same thing.
We don't we emulate themilitary.
We say we do, but the militaryprepares you well in advance for
the next position, and itsounds like you're doing the
same thing to identify that.
And the other thing is thatperson who's getting ready to
(17:54):
retire.
It seems to me that the idea ofknowledge management would be
that somebody would be there tosay hey Joe, let's talk for a
little while.
Let's spend an hour a week totalk about what you know now
about this position that youwish you knew when you first got
there.
In other words, how can wecapture some of the information
and the beliefs and thepractices that you have
(18:15):
developed over the years so thatwe can pass it down and allow
others not necessarily to stepin the same mud as you had to?
What do you think about thatidea?
Jason Sieczkowski (18:27):
No, I think it's fantastic.
It's let's learn from ourmistakes, let's learn from where
we were maybe deficient and howcan we mitigate that.
The whole job as assistantchiefs, commanders, lieutenants
is that mitigation of liability.
And we think liability in theoperational sense right,
protecting our officers, thecity, the community.
But it's also internal,organizational liability.
(18:48):
And that's if I'm puttingleaders over teams, how have I
prepared them to deal with thepersonnel issues, the
operational issues, theadministrative issues, all of
the things that come with thoseroles and that responsibility to
make sure that we care for andvalue our people?
They are truly our greatestasset.
And if we're deficient inpreparing them to take those
(19:08):
roles on day one, we've done theteam no favors and we've
certainly done that leader nofavor.
Steve Morreale (19:14):
So interesting to hear that You're a whole much
smarter than you look, jason,I'm just saying I can see you.
I'm teasing, of course I cansee you and you've got a great
sense of humor, and I'm onlyteasing.
I know that.
But I want to ask this question.
You talked about measurementand it also strikes me that we
don't measure some of the thingswe there, and yet 90% of the
(19:35):
time policing do not go hands-onright.
Most of it is not gettinginvolved in arrests.
And I understand how dangerousit can be when it gets to that
(19:57):
point.
But you're talking aboutrelationships and knowing the
community and knowing theschools and knowing the
businesses.
And how do you convey that?
To patrol, to be ready but notalways have to be in a command
and control mindset?
Jason Sieczkowski (20:17):
It's that becomes challenging in some
areas.
Right, because we think of whatdo cops want to do?
We want to drive fast, turn onred and blue lights.
We give all this cool equipment, even though that's only 5% to
10% of the job.
Right, it is really trying tohighlight.
Hey guys, we have a programthat's called SpiderTech I think
(20:37):
it just changed its namebecause it got bought out by
another company.
It's basically Yelp reviews forcops, what we call it
internally.
We have it playing across allthe TVs in the precincts.
I can send you a picture afterwe're done filming here so you
can see what that looks like.
For us it's a state-paidprogram, so it doesn't cost us a
dime, which is great.
And so every time our officersare interacting with the public,
(21:00):
it sends that individual ifthey're a victim of crime or if
they were in a traffic collision, something like that.
Hey, here's the call number,here's the call for service and
here's a link.
Click on it and tell us how wedid.
Tell us how we serve you.
We want to know how are weserving the community.
So every morning at 6 am, I getan email of all the calls from
the day before that.
(21:20):
People filled these out.
Right now, our rating for callsfor service that we responded to
is, I think, 4.73 out of 5.
People love us.
Our cops are serving thecommunity in such an incredible
fashion and they're providingthat level of customer service.
And to be able to measure thatand then share that with city
(21:41):
council, share that with thecity manager and share that with
the community really helps usenhance our brand.
It shows the community you seecops as the enforcement wing of
the government.
There's all of these other kindof things that come with
policing, but in reality we're acustomer service organization
and I can show you why.
I can show you how we measureour level of customer service,
(22:04):
where a year and a half ago Icould just say, yeah, we're
doing well, but now I can showyou a metric to say this is from
the community.
These are people thatinteracted with our officers and
there's text boxes that theycan fill out.
Underneath those ratings, wehave the free form comments.
I just saw one when I waswalking into my office to film
this.
Officer Aguilar responded to myrear end collision.
(22:26):
He was professional, he wasfast and I love the Chandler
Police Department and we playthose constantly on the loop to
let everyone know and it's aconstant reminder for patrol
sergeants, lieutenants,commanders, everybody Everything
we do is community based andit's important.
And look at how we're servingthe community.
The community supports you,they love you and this is kind
(22:48):
of.
This is the fruits of yourlabor.
Steve Morreale (22:50):
Well, it's positive reinforcement, which is
amazing that that would happen.
And so in your time in policing, I'm sure does Chandler have
body-worn cams?
Absolutely.
How has that changed people'sbehavior, your ability to
analyze and assess someone'sdemeanor, behavior, interactions
(23:14):
?
Jason Sieczkowski (23:16):
it certainly makes it easier from an
administrative perspective.
I was actually one of the firstones in the department to get a
body worn camera on the biketeam when I was there back in
2000.
Gosh, what was that?
14, 13, somewhere in that range.
Um, I was one of the first onesin the department to get one.
I was actually open to it.
I loved it because it made mycases easier to prosecute.
Steve Morreale (23:39):
And you can remember what the hell happened,
right, because you've got videocontent on it.
Jason Sieczkowski (23:44):
They did say that.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that.
It's fantastic and again, itserves as a way to really
highlight positive behavior butalso address negative behavior,
because we know that people arepeople.
We're going to come up short attimes.
It's just the reality of humannature.
So we can certainly use it toaddress that.
But what we really try to focuson is also highlighting
(24:05):
positive behavior.
One of the goals for sergeantsand lieutenants is they have to
do a random audit of two videosa month from their officers.
We've limited it to videos of20 minutes or less.
We use Axon Performance andrunning in the background of our
evidencecom portal and it pickstwo videos at random.
They click on watch, they watchthe video.
They can put comments in there.
(24:26):
Hey, you did great on this callLove the de-escalation.
What I want you to work on ismaybe this next time, or let's
talk about the tactics you usedon this and it's a way that we
can measure and always look toimprove but also then reinforce
those positive outcomes orpositive things that we're doing
in the community and for people.
Steve Morreale (24:45):
Great.
There's a couple of questions.
We're talking to Jason Sikowskiand he is in Chandler, arizona.
He is the assistant chiefresponsible for the uniform
division and one thing is, asyou sit back and reflect early
on you talked about data-drivenoversight and management and, of
course, evidence-based policingis big now and being pushed
(25:07):
quite a bit.
Are we, in policing, measuringthe right things?
We have a tendency to countbeans.
We made these kinds of stopsand of these stops, this was a
warning, this was a ticket, thiswas a felony stop, this was a
misdemeanor.
We issued a summons.
We're counting most of theenforcement stuff.
(25:29):
Do we count the community stuff?
Jason Sieczkowski (25:34):
That's where I think we're getting better,
but I think there's definitelyroom to improve.
It's funny we just talked aboutthis kind of yesterday in a
retirement that I was in and oneof our traffic officers was
retiring after 25, almost 26years and I told him I said,
gary, the things that we can'tmeasure are things that we'll
never know.
How many lives did you save bystopping that DUI?
(25:54):
How many lives did you save bystopping a speeding car?
I'll be honest, I don't knowhow we'll ever measure that.
But I come back to things likeSpiderTech, things like Axon
Performance that are allowing usto really kind of measure how
we're interacting in thecommunity.
Getting away from enforcementstops, getting away from arrests
, tickets, subject stops,contacts those are all important
(26:16):
measurables.
I don't want to diminish that.
But it's also how are webuilding community trust, how
are we building communitycohesiveness?
Just understanding that withoutthe public support we don't
exist as law enforcement,certainly not here in Chandler,
but anywhere.
So I think we've gotten betterby kind of developing some of
these new technologies that canshow us and really stepping
(26:39):
outside the comfort zone.
Again, I hate to harp on ourspider tech.
When we rolled that out, it wasmet.
I think I had people at myoffice door with pitchforks and
torches.
I had to do a Kevlarreinforcement on the wall.
I mean it was not.
Those were some difficultbriefings to sit in, telling
people.
Hey, you know, after you meetand interact with someone,
(27:01):
they're going to get a surveylink to tell us how you did and
tell us if you did well.
If they felt you came up short,we're going to see it because
our community deserves it.
We want transparency, we wantto enhance that transparency and
it was.
There was a lot of fear, a lotof apprehension, I'll even dare
say some anger.
Steve Morreale (27:22):
Well, it was fear of the unknown and and what
.
What they're going to be?
You're going to be able tocomplain about me.
Jason Sieczkowski (27:27):
Well, it was how many eyes are you going to
cut because of this?
And, steve, do you know howmany IAs we've cut because of
that technology?
No, zero, zero.
We haven't cut a single one.
We have had conversations withpeople hey, this came up, let's
go back and watch the body-worncamera and let's assess, kind of
, where we're at.
But we've issued absolutelyzero discipline as a result of
(27:50):
that.
But it does allow usperspective in things that maybe
we would have missed before,because we can't watch Everybody
can, the sergeant can't be onscene of every call and it
allows us to kind of addressmaybe some minor things when
we've fallen short and get thatperson on track or say, hey,
let's tweak this for next time.
You know, maybe not for themthat way.
(28:11):
Or let's look at this as aperspective.
Steve Morreale (28:13):
And I was going to say perception is reality to
so many people and if you'recoming on strong, that's.
You know, everybody is touchyand again, in all of the
training I do, you can come onstrong, but you don't have to
start strong, right?
I mean, it's that whole idea ofde-escalation.
Let me ask you this Do you feelthat you are a leader when
(28:38):
you're in meetings, where you'relistening better but, more
importantly, that you're leadingwith questions?
You're posing questions to getpeople to think more deeply?
Jason Sieczkowski (28:47):
Absolutely, I think, the best meetings I run
are where I talk to me.
Absolutely, I think the bestmeetings I run are where I talk
the least, where I can just sitback, maybe do the introduction.
Hey, set kind of the vision orthe parameters.
This is where we're trying toget to.
What do you all think and howdo we get there?
Because I think you said itbest, steve, smarter than I.
Look right, if I just sit backand I let the people that
(29:14):
actually know these roles, knowthese jobs and do that process
every day talk and come up witha decision A there's better
buy-in and B it's just going tobe better.
Because I'll be honest, I don'tknow.
I've never booked someone intoour jail Once we went to the new
jail system.
I've never done it.
So how am I going to direct aproject that deals with that?
But if I talk to the detentionsergeant, the detention officers
(29:35):
, the patrol officers that aredealing with it every day, hey,
come up with a new process andtell me how to get there.
They know they're important,their opinion and their
perspective is valued and itallows them to then carry that
message forward.
Hey, we came up with this, itwasn't forward.
Hey, we came up with this.
It wasn't quote admin that cameup with this.
(29:57):
This is the process we wantedand we decided on, and we work
there collaboratively to getthere.
Steve Morreale (30:03):
That's terrific to hear, and it seems to me.
So let me go back a little bit,without throwing anybody under
the bus.
I'm sure in the past you haveworked for bosses that do not
engage, that did not seek input,that were sort of more
authoritative.
This is what we're talkingabout and you know you've been
(30:25):
at all kinds of meetings, and sohave I.
Where it is a sit down and itis a barking out of well, got to
do this, got to do that, got todo this Any questions, and when
the questions come up, theperson has a look on it that
says I don't want your questions.
I'm sure that over time youhave changed, but how do you set
the table?
(30:46):
Literally, you're chuckling.
So respond to that.
Jason Sieczkowski (30:50):
How do I set the table?
Sorry, mr Carter, you kind ofno.
No what?
Steve Morreale (30:53):
I'm asking is you chuckled a little bit?
Jason Sieczkowski (30:55):
I'm curious why obviously you know those
kinds of people.
So the quote that I've told somany people and I said it really
kind of set where I've gone ortried to go as a leader.
I'm sure there's others thatwould disagree, but I remember I
was in a meeting with meetingwith someone who was higher up
in the organization, and thequote was I don't pay you for
(31:17):
your opinion.
And I went okay, I know where Istand now.
Let me give you a spreadsheet.
Here you are.
It was that really.
It sticks with me.
I still remember the meeting tothis day, and I never wanted to
be that person, which is weird,because I'm good friends with
this person still to this day.
I still talk to them, we'revery good friends, we're close,
(31:37):
but it was in that moment I knewthat wasn't the leader I wanted
to be, and I was a sergeant atthe time, and it just kind of
sets me up.
It's a good reminder and again,I'm not perfect, I'm not here
to tell you I am.
I'm sure I've run meetings likethat.
I know I've never said thatthough, and so it's.
It's just that reminder of hey,you know, the first, the very
(31:59):
first priority that we have inleadership in our organization
is we care for and value people.
And if I'm using phrases likethat, I'm not living that.
In fact, I'm the opposite ofthat.
Right, you're diminishing them.
Steve Morreale (32:12):
Right, you're diminishing them Right, you're
diminishing them, and it'sinteresting because I say this
in so many trainings that I do,and that is that we are in a
discipline sometimes that hiressupposedly the best and then all
too often, especially whenthey're young and they're
rookies, or a couple of years in, we tell them to sit there,
(32:32):
shut up.
We're not looking for input,and I think it's a major mistake
and I think we need to valueour people and it sounds like
that's what's happening.
But again, going back to thequestion about setting the table
, so you are now no longer acommander, you've risen up, you
are one of the top four in theChandler Police Department and
you're running the meeting forthe first time.
(32:54):
How do you set the table aboutexpectations, about when I'm,
when we're having a meeting?
I value your input, I expectyour input.
I do not want silence.
Tell me how those that was setfor you.
Jason Sieczkowski (33:10):
I actually lay it out just like that.
I go hey, this meeting isn'tabout me, it's about trying to
get to a better process, get towhatever outcome we're trying to
achieve.
I need that throughconversation, through discussion
, and if I'm taking us down abad path, not only do I expect
that you're going to tell me, Idemand it Because if we go down
(33:30):
a bad path and you don't sayanything about it, we've all
failed.
It's not just on me, it's onall of us.
I need honest feedback.
I'm putting my ego aside and ifI have a bad idea, please tell
me, because I would rather pivotand change it, even if we've
already gone down the road.
Then just keep operating undersunk costs of well, we're just
(33:52):
going to keep dumping thingsinto this, even though this is
terrible.
So I think it's important tohave that open, honest dialogue,
especially at the beginning,when we start having meetings,
on whatever we're trying toaccomplish.
Let's be open and honest.
Try to take the rank out of itin here.
I gotcha.
Steve Morreale (34:10):
I think it's important for leaders to
recognize that they don't knoweverything and admit that, and I
think the leaders who I beganto lose respect for were people
who would say things just to befillers and they were wrong.
Everything.
(34:33):
And that to me was not, was notanything negative, because you
can't, you don't know what youdon't know.
And and if you don't knoweverything and you and you
realize that, how important isthis word in your bearing as a
leader vulnerability andhumility.
Jason Sieczkowski (34:48):
Incredibly important.
Talk about it.
Vulnerability equals trust.
If I'm not vulnerable to mystaff and my personnel at all
levels, they're not going totrust me.
If I look like a robot to them,why would they ever open up to
me?
Why would they talk to me?
Why would they want to?
I'm very open.
I have pictures of my wife, mykids, my dogs around my office.
(35:10):
We shoot a weekly video herecalled Inside Command.
It's kind of my joke.
One of my wife, my kids, mydogs around my office.
We shoot a weekly video herecalled Inside Command.
It's kind of my joke.
One of my dogs, portillo.
He's a little dachshund.
He sits over my shoulder inthat video and so we shoot him
at different locations and Itake that picture with me now
and he's always over my shoulderand it's a way to say look, the
assistant chief is human.
We have a lot of new cops whoprobably don't know me.
(35:40):
They know who I am when I walkby, but if it just creates a
little bit sense of no, he'sactually a normal person, that's
always a good thing.
To be vulnerable, it buildstrust.
That's the key.
And letting them know hey, I'mnot perfect, I've made mistakes.
Hey, I know, I'm giving youdiscipline out of this IA.
Let me tell you about thepursuit I had back in 2009 where
I took a hit.
You can overcome this.
Steve Morreale (35:57):
It's okay.
It's not fatal, right?
Yeah, you know we have to beaccountable.
This is our way of holding youaccountable.
But now go back, get back onyour horse and get back to work.
Jason Sieczkowski (36:09):
It's okay.
Like that's okay.
We all make mistakes.
You'll overcome this.
We've got you on a good pathand I've been there too, Like
I've got hits in my jacket, soit's okay.
Steve Morreale (36:19):
You know, and I I I love to use the word hope.
You know I had a boss who wouldsay you know, steve, I see what
you do with people and and whatI do realize is that even when
you're chewing them out, the onething you do is you give them
hope hope that they can learnfrom this and hope that they can
do better and hope that theycan overcome this and go down.
(36:39):
You know the correct path andthat that, to me, was a was a
badge of honor.
I think, in a lot of ways, thatyou always have to give people
hope.
Jason Sieczkowski (36:48):
Yeah, it always comes from a position of
love, like we love you as ahuman, as an employee, as a man
or woman, like we, we value youin the organization and just you
in general.
Steve Morreale (37:07):
And this may hurt right now, it may not make
you feel good, but we're stillhere to support you.
Well, I always say that gettinga bit from behind just gives
you calluses on your ass, andthat's what made me a little bit
stronger as I went through mylittle rips here and there.
The 40 under 40, thatparticular award what did that
mean to you?
That's pretty special.
Jason Sieczkowski (37:24):
Just an incredible honor, something I
didn't expect.
I remember my wife and I wereon a staycation in Tucson and I
got the call from my thenassistant chief saying that I
got that.
I got it.
I didn't even know they put mein for it.
Just an incredible honor to beone of those individuals
nominated, named, selected toreceive it out of the, the IACP
(37:46):
global, you know ecosystem.
Steve Morreale (37:50):
Just incredible honor what did it change for you
with that honor?
Jason Sieczkowski (37:57):
I don't think it didn't change much.
Steve Morreale (38:00):
You didn't get paid anymore.
Jason Sieczkowski (38:01):
I understand all that kind of stuff, but but
I have a great trophy that sitson my desk right back there.
Yes, it was a.
What it did was it openedanother avenue of networking.
I talked to some of thosepeople still over LinkedIn and,
just again, share perspectives.
Some of them aren't even in lawenforcement anymore and they
run their own business, aconsulting business, things
along those lines and I thinkit's an avenue of perspective
(38:26):
where you can see what otherpeople are doing.
Hey, how did you overcome this?
And again, we're not all in thesame realm, right.
Some are PIOs, some are pio,some are cops, some were.
You know other arenas in thelaw enforcement, you know big
machine.
How did you deal with this?
What technology you're using?
Now, how did you deal with thispersonnel issue?
Like, I've got an employeethat's doing this.
Have you ever seen this?
(38:46):
How?
How did you do this?
Or how did you navigate thatsuccessfully?
So I think for me, the biggestavenue that it opened was just
that networking side of it andlike-minded leaders who are
generationally similar too.
Again, kind of go back to thegenerational shift in law
enforcement, and it's good tohave people that are of a
(39:08):
similar tenure, that you canlean on and say how are you
doing?
Steve Morreale (39:13):
That's interesting because I think, and
that's why I begin to focus onthe 40 under 40 because you are
the future.
Obviously, you're here in the,you're in the present tense, but
you are the future and thosewho make it, and the 40 who were
just named, from all over theworld, just as are amazing to me
, and some are civilian staffand some are, some are I don't
mean simply, but sergeants and afew officers there.
(39:35):
So it's very, very important.
I want to ask and we're talkingto Jason Sikowsky and he's in
Arizona but if you had to giveme some words to describe your
leadership philosophy, whatmight that be?
Philosophy?
(39:56):
What might that be?
In other words, what are thethings that you hold dear to you
about interacting with otherpeople and working on your
leadership approach with them?
Jason Sieczkowski (40:03):
It all comes back to the philosophy of
continuous improvement.
That's the biggest thing.
It's pushing people to alwaysbe improving.
Every day should be a littlebit better than the last.
We should always beuncomfortable in what we're
doing, um, and be striving to bea little bit better than the
day before personally,professionally, spiritually,
(40:26):
financially, whatever that lookslike for you and it's not
always unique, it's not alwaysgoing to be the same thing,
right, you're going to have anoff day at work, that's okay.
How are you working on yourpersonal life then?
How are you working on yourphysical fitness?
How are you working on yourmental fitness?
You know, academic fitness itdoesn't have to just be
professionally related, but ifwe're always striving to be in
(40:49):
that mindset of continuousimprovement, that's where
everything starts with.
Is what we're doing hereleading to a better outcome for
you, for the organization, forour community, for our city?
How are we improving?
Steve Morreale (41:03):
They say leaders are readers.
What are you reading?
Jason Sieczkowski (41:08):
Oh man, right now Not much, Steve.
Steve Morreale (41:13):
Okay, so you're not a leader, you're not reading
.
No, no, no, no.
Jason Sieczkowski (41:16):
It's been a while.
Steve Morreale (41:17):
But what?
No, I'm not talking about booksas much as you know where.
What are you looking at?
You know to keep sharp and keepon top of things.
Are you looking at at policechief magazine?
Are you reading any blogs,those kinds of things?
You know what is what ispushing you to to think bigger,
and if you find an article, doyou share that with some of your
(41:37):
other leaders.
Jason Sieczkowski (41:40):
Oh, all the time it's the IACP monthly, the
police chief magazine, differentarticles that are coming out on
IACP PERF.
Certainly it's those lawenforcement publications.
That's what we're constantlysharing back and forth over
email blogs, just interactingwith the other, even just chiefs
here that are a part ofdifferent organizations that
(42:01):
they're seeing, you know,different publications coming
out through their arenas and howcan we leverage that in field
ops?
Steve Morreale (42:07):
Great.
I'm glad to hear that Newofficer comes in.
Obviously for most, first stopis patrol.
Do you have the opportunity tosit with them?
Jason Sieczkowski (42:19):
Every time.
Steve Morreale (42:20):
Tell me what that's about.
Jason Sieczkowski (42:22):
Yeah.
So I go meet with them whenthey're in their post-academy
phase.
So, even if they're laterals ornew recruits that have just
graduated the academy, I maketime.
I take 15 minutes or so, 20minutes maybe to go sit with
their group and I introducemyself first of all.
I tell them hey, I know, whenwe got your new hire email, I
sent you this email.
(42:42):
It says welcome.
Hey, we're part of a broaderfamily up here.
New organizations and change isalways scary, but we're here to
make sure you're successful.
Here's my phone number.
Here's my email.
It's on 24-7.
You can always call me.
I've never gotten a call fromone of them yet, but I put it
out there and when I go sit downwith them, I tell them okay,
(43:03):
this is who I am, this is how Igot here.
This has kind of been my pathto get here and this is what
I've seen.
You're going to choose your ownpath now and we're blessed to
have you as part of ourorganization, no matter where
you've come from.
We want your ideas, just like Iwant you to steal our ideas and
send them back to where you camefrom, especially if they're
(43:25):
laterals.
Maybe you've seen a processthat is better than ours, I want
you to bring that here and Iwant you to share that up the
chain.
And, conversely, if you see aprocess that we do that's better
than where you came from, or aprogram, something, steal it and
share it with your old agency.
(43:45):
Please do.
If you see a tactic that theyshould use, because you know
we're well-connected in thestate of Arizona here, send it.
We want our people to Send it.
We want our people to be safe.
We want you to serve yourcommunity better, so we are open
to it.
That is what.
That's where we've gotten halfof our ideas.
These are laterals that we'rehiring.
It's they bring ideas fromtheir agency in Michigan, in New
(44:07):
York, in Washington, california, new Mexico, wherever they're
coming from.
We're taking ideas and bringingthem and linking them ours.
Steve Morreale (44:15):
So you're, you're looking at laterals from
all over the country.
Jason Sieczkowski (44:19):
We leverage laterals.
We're literally unique in theValley.
We lean on laterals more thannew recruits.
We've seen such a high level ofsuccess with them that that's
where we're really targeting alot of our recruiting efforts.
Steve Morreale (44:33):
Really and you've had success.
Jason Sieczkowski (44:34):
It's also easy to get them on board.
We don't have to wait sixmonths for an academy and then a
full FTO process.
We can speed up the FTO processfrequently and get them solo
capable a lot faster.
I'm amazed at the amount ofsuccess we've had with Laterals.
I know when we started downthat path there was some
apprehension People are runningfrom agencies and all the other
(44:57):
kind of things that come withalways hear about laterals.
We have not seen that.
It's been a point of pride forus, in fact.
Steve Morreale (45:04):
That's an interesting concept.
I'm glad to hear that because Iknow that I saw Florida saying,
even when the FBI was havingproblems, that we'll take if if
you've been spurned by youragency will take you.
And I think that's that's veryinteresting because I know when
you're looking at laterals youhave the ability to go and look
at their background to seewhether or not they've had a lot
(45:25):
of complaints and if they passmuster then that's pretty good
because they've already come intrained.
You just have to retrain themthe Chandler way, I'm sure.
Jason Sieczkowski (45:34):
We do.
I was just talking to one inthe hallway that just finished
up his polygraph before I camein.
Steve Morreale (45:40):
So one of the things you indicated was there
were generational differencescoming.
It does not mean becausesomebody is a 20-something and
has a different life view thatthey are not going to be
beneficial to the organization.
In a lot of ways, I thinkleaders have to adapt More than
asking them to adapt to us.
(46:01):
We have to adapt to them in alot of ways because they bring a
lot to the table if we ask.
Talk about what that means toyou.
The generational differences.
Jason Sieczkowski (46:11):
I think you again you've hit it spot on.
I think those 20 plus year copsthat's who we're really leaning
on to impart institutional,organizational knowledge on our
new cops.
Tell them what the Chandler wayis.
Tell them how we've gotten towhere we are.
Tell them about the historygood and bad.
Tell them how we've missteppedas an organization the
(46:32):
controversies that we've beenembroiled in, because that's
going to help them shape theirpath to avoid those as we go
down the road.
And on that same page, I askthat our 20-year cops be open to
new ideas from our young, ouryoung cops that are coming out
of the private sector.
They're coming from real estateagents, technology backgrounds,
ai firms.
Let them teach you how to dosome new things that we've never
(46:56):
been a part of as anorganization.
So, just just like I say,generational differences doesn't
mean it's going to be a fight.
It's just we have to worktogether and be open-minded, be
willing to change, learn, grow,bend and adapt.
Steve Morreale (47:11):
Well, in a lot of ways we're hiring our own
kids, right, If you're a20-something person, you're
hiring someone similar to yourown kin and you have to be
receptive to that and be willingto understand that there are
differences.
There's a difference in workethic, and that's an adaptation
(47:34):
that we all have to deal with inmy mind.
But I love to use the ladder oflife is what I call it and I
draw a ladder, If I can have youvisualize this, I draw a ladder
and I put 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 onthe side of the ladder.
And what I say when I'm sayingthat we have 20 something, 30
(47:54):
something, 40 something, 50somethings and in some cases, 60
somethings working in ourorganization.
Each one of those generationshas a different view of work and
of the 20-somethings and it'sgoing to cause friction,
naturally, until we becomeopen-minded and receptive.
And it sounds like you'recloser, even at your age.
(48:18):
You're closer to the20-something than a late
60-something and I presume thatsometimes you have to have
conversations with someone whomay be older than you to
basically buffer what that20-something brings to the table
.
It looks like that does happen.
Talk to me.
Jason Sieczkowski (48:38):
That was one of my biggest challenges
promoting into leadership.
I was younger than a lot of thepeople I would supervise and
having to kind of overcome thegenerational gap there and
really what that looks like forthem.
But going back to your questionabout maybe being the buffer or
the conduit between thosegenerations, I think that our
(48:59):
20-year-olds, our 20-somethingsand fun fact, I've got a
21-year-old daughter who I'mlike and I could hire her in
McKinsey they're smarter thanwe've ever been, even my
generation of 19, 20 years on.
Certainly we have some peoplethat have been here for 30 years
.
They are smarter and betterequipped than we've ever been,
and I say that kindly.
They are smarter and betterequipped than we've ever been,
(49:22):
and I say that kindly.
But when we look at it fromwhat's the big?
What's the big talking point inpolicing right now?
Ai and wellness, right liketechnology and wellness are two
big kind of pillars that we'reall focusing on in the space
we're living in right now.
One of the things that ourchief tells everyone when they
retire is I hope you left herebetter or physically, mentally
fit than when you started.
(49:42):
And yesterday in the retirementI heard him say but that may
not be accurate for you becausehistorically we haven't done a
good job of making that priority.
A lot of our older generationand I see it, one of our
officers that retired last yearhe was working 50, 70 hours a
week of overtime because hevalued money.
He valued that money that camefrom that and working those
(50:04):
shifts and I worry about thatbecause, well, he valued that.
You know what he called thework ethic.
What is that doing to yourlong-term health, longevity,
resiliency Whereas I have a 21,22, 23, up to 25 year old, maybe
they want to do 40 now and theywant to spend time with their
family, their kids, their dogs,whatever that looks like and
(50:25):
work out or hike or whatever,yeah, to keep themselves fit.
That's a smarter avenue thanwe've ever taken.
Because they have longevity.
They know that pensions havechanged.
They can't retire until they're52 and a half now, right
Whereas I can retire at 42.
They're going to be here for alot longer tenure.
They've got to do a better jobof taking care of themselves and
(50:49):
they have more information todo that with, more resources to
do that with.
So, while the image or theperspective may be, well, they
don't work hard and they're nothere.
They're not picking up all theovertime.
Is that a bad thing?
We have 348 cops that can pickup overtime.
Why is it all on that oneperson?
You're going to retire in ayear and you've done 25 years.
(51:10):
They have to do 30.
They're better equippedmentally, physically,
emotionally to do this job thanwe've ever been.
So why don't we look to themand celebrate that instead and
say, hey, maybe they're actuallyon the right track and maybe a
broader section of thedepartment needs to pick up some
of those shifts and we can allcollectively split that apart?
Steve Morreale (51:32):
Yeah, that's a great perspective and a great
point of view that you hold andhave and that you've conveyed to
us.
Let me ask as we wind down.
We're talking to Jason Sikowskiand he's a Chandler, he's an
assistant chief and he was oneof the 40 under 40 with the ICP.
Jason Sieczkowski (51:53):
What did you think when I called you?
I thought it was a spam callSteve, 30 a day.
No, I was shocked.
Honestly, I did not expect that.
It's always an honor every timeI get to talk to any group and
share who we are as ChandlerPolice Department, chandler as a
city.
I believe we're a premier lawenforcement agency.
I believe we're a premier city,a city built on resilience and
(52:14):
an organization certainly builton that.
Just an honor, like I said,anytime I can share anything
that we're doing and maybe helpsomeone else out, it's a very
happy day for me Good.
Steve Morreale (52:28):
I'm glad I think you know I chided you a bit
that you look that you'resmarter than you look, but the
fact is, I think that you sitthere and what you're conveying
is that you're a thought leaderand you are working with your
agency to try to make it abetter agency than it already is
, and that's quite a step, Ithink.
I'm so glad to be able to chatwith you and look forward to
(52:52):
dealing with you in the future,but I just want to ask you what
your view is, because policinghas gone through some difficult
times and I think we're on theupswing, but what's your belief
in policing as a career?
Jason Sieczkowski (53:12):
I think it's the greatest career.
I think it's a noble profession.
It is an absolute necessity ofa job.
I think people call us whenthey're having bad days.
Human nature is we're notalways going to get along.
There will always be a need forit.
I cannot imagine a bettercareer where you can make a
bigger impact on anything froman individual's life to an
(53:37):
entire community.
I think this is the greatestjob in the world.
There's nothing else I canimagine doing.
Steve Morreale (53:44):
Well, like you said earlier, it seems to me, if
we can look, there are certainsegments of Chandler or any
other city that cause a greatdeal of problems.
That cause a great deal ofproblems and yet there are some
great people who live even inthose areas.
And you know, I just wonder,you know how you help create the
(54:08):
mindset that it's not usagainst them, that we're
guardians.
We'll be warriors when we haveto be, but generally guardians.
Is that a fair assessment?
Jason Sieczkowski (54:18):
Yeah, absolutely Every day.
We have to be integrated intothe community.
Every day we have to be a partof this city, in this community,
and we do that through justsimple interactions.
It's the moments of truth,velocity, right.
Every interaction is a chanceto make a positive impression,
where every time we're talkingto somebody, even when I stop at
at Starbucks in the morningright, I stopped there, I know
(54:40):
the baristas by now you can sayhi to people that are sitting
waiting in line for coffee Maybethey're on their phone and just
share hey, how's your day going?
It's you become human Justbecause you wear a blue suit
every day.
We're still human and so whenyou can be vulnerable again
coming back to that word youbuild trust, and that's just not
(55:01):
internally, that's externallywith our community.
So, be vulnerable, say how'syour day going, you know.
Steve Morreale (55:07):
Well, I think, I think approachability becomes
important, right that that.
That that's what ends uphappening.
And when you're on a bike,that's a great way to approach
people.
When you're a dog officer, it'sa great.
It's a great way to approachpeople.
When you're a dog officer, it'sa great way to approach people.
And I always say, wheneverpossible, make friends for the
police department.
We don't need more enemies,Right, Absolutely.
(55:29):
It's a great point, Steve.
Well, thank you very much.
You have the last word.
What do you leave yourlisteners with a positive view
on policing and leadership?
Jason Sieczkowski (55:43):
I think care for and value people.
People are our greatest asset,internally in our cities and our
communities.
If we lead with caring for andvaluing people, everything we do
will be positive after that.
People are what drives thisworld, this community, our
profession.
Everything we do ispeople-centric.
So lead with that in your heart.
(56:04):
Care for and value people.
They are everything to us.
So take care of yourselves,take care of your families and
take care of your cities andeverything else will fall into
place Terrific.
Steve Morreale (56:17):
We've been having the opportunity to talk
to Jason Sikowski in Chandler,arizona, today, and so that's
another episode of the Cop Talkpodcast in the can.
I thank you, jason, for takingthe time to be with me.
Jason Sieczkowski (56:31):
Thank you.
Steve Morreale (56:31):
I wish you the best of luck.
So that's it.
Let me know if there's anybodyI should be talking to.
Thanks for reaching out.
The last I checked 97 countriesare listening and 3,600 cities,
which just mystifies me.
Thank you, don't be afraid toreach out.
I'm always, very often, I'llcall you if you reach out.
So please let me know what weshould be talking about, who we
(56:55):
should be talking to.
Thanks, keep your people safe.
Intro-Outro (57:16):
Have a good day.
This is the CopDoc podcast forregular episodes of interviews
with thought leaders in policing.
Welcome to the CopDoc podcast.
This podcast explores policeleadership issues and innovative
ideas.
The CopDoc shares thoughts andideas as he talks with leaders
in policing communities,academia and other government
agencies.
And now please join Dr SteveMorreale and industry thought
(00:25):
leaders as they share theirinsights and experience on the
CopDoc podcast.
Steve Morreale (00:33):
Hey everybody, steve Morreale coming to you
again and this is the CopDocpodcast.
I am in Hilton Head Island,south Carolina, today and I'm
going out to Arizona and we'regoing to be talking to Jason
Sikowski and he is an assistantchief at Chandler, arizona.
Hello there, jason.
How are you?
Jason Sieczkowski (00:51):
I'm well.
Good morning, how are you?
Steve Morreale (00:52):
Well, we had some technical difficulties but
we worked through them.
I am doing fine.
I'm glad to finally connectwith you.
I think what's important iswhat drew me to you is me paying
attention to IACP's 40 40.
And this year's just came out,ironically, so I'm going to
reach out to a few others.
But you were named a few yearsago as one of the 40 under 40.
(01:13):
Are you still under 40?
Jason Sieczkowski (01:16):
No, sir, I'm 41 now.
Steve Morreale (01:18):
All right, all right, so you don't qualify
anymore but you got in justunder the wire.
Well, at the time you werecommander.
You were now an assistant chiefin Chandler, so thank you for
joining us.
You've been listening to thepodcast they know once in a
while, and what I'd like you todo is to tell the audience about
Chandler, arizona.
What is it?
How big is the organization?
How big is the city?
Where is it located in Arizona?
Jason Sieczkowski (01:41):
Yeah, we're a beautiful city in the desert
southwest.
We are the city of innovation.
We like to call ourselves theSilicon Valley of the desert,
which is kind of fun because Igrew up in San Francisco,
california, so I came from theoriginal Silicon Valley to the
one where it's a little more dryand desert-like City-wise.
We've got about 280,000 to290,000 residents right now,
(02:02):
which is shy of 300,000.
We're sitting right around 348sworn officers and 191
professional staff.
But it's a beautiful communityso we welcome everyone to come
out and visit us.
We're building lots of homesand we have jobs available, so
come on out.
Steve Morreale (02:17):
Good to hear.
Well, the Sunbelt and even downhere in the South, there's so
many opportunities and so manypeople are moving in this area,
so I understand that.
How long have you been onChandler?
Jason Sieczkowski (02:27):
I just hit 19 years in August.
Actually, I'm just shy of my 20.
Is this where you startedpolicing?
It is.
It was the only agency I evenapplied for, believe it or not.
Steve Morreale (02:37):
Was it the only agency that would take you?
Is that the reason, Jason?
Jason Sieczkowski (02:40):
No, no, I don't think I was a hot
commodity.
Out of the thousand or sopeople I applied with, we hired
two out of that group, so I wasvery blessed to get this
opportunity Very competitive.
Steve Morreale (02:52):
Well, what drew you to the desert?
Jason Sieczkowski (02:56):
You know, I came down here for school, Steve
.
My dream was to teach golflessons.
That was why I moved down here.
I was in ASU's ProfessionalGolf Management Program for
about a semester Quicklyrealized that while golf is a
passion of mine, it was notgoing to be my passion.
It was more of a fun sport forme on the weekend, so quickly
changed over to degree programs,ended up getting a degree in
(03:17):
agricultural business anddecided that business wasn't
going to be the route for meeither.
And here you are decided thatbusiness wasn't going to be the
route for me either.
I was doing an internshipactually down in Phoenix and saw
Phoenix PD arresting someoneoutside my window and I thought
that'd be a good career.
I should try that Just becauseof an arrest.
Yes, I was watching Phoenix.
(03:38):
I thought the lights look cooland I go.
Man, that looks like a lot offun.
Steve Morreale (03:42):
And you're not sitting behind a desk, you're
not picking corn or planting it.
That's pretty neat.
So here you are, and you haverisen in 19 years to be the
assistant chief.
And do you have field ops?
Jason Sieczkowski (03:56):
I do.
I've got all of uniformservices, so it's if you're in
uniform, you pretty much fallunder my bureau, which is a lot
If you're in uniform, you prettymuch fall under my bureau,
which is a lot.
So talk about the layout, thehierarchy of the department and
(04:17):
what units you have, whatsections you have.
So obviously we have the chiefof police.
That's above me.
We have three assistant chiefs,so it's myself, chris Perez and
Melissa DeAnda.
I've got field operations, soI've got three precincts.
We have our downtown precinct,which is where I come to you
today from.
We have our west substation andour south substation, and each
of those precincts have 18 teams.
So at some point we got 18patrol teams in the city, and
(04:40):
then outside of those patrolteams, I have our detention
services bureau.
I have swat, um, I have all ofour training bureau which houses
field, and then outside ofthose patrol teams, I have our
Detention Services Bureau.
I have SWAT, I have all of ourtraining bureau, which houses
field training, firearmstraining, basic training,
advanced training.
I've got school resourceofficers, and then I have our
behavioral health unit that doesa lot of the mental health
(05:00):
pickups in our city, and thenI've also got peer support,
wellness.
So I've got a whole gamut ofkind of a broad, eclectic
spectrum of units and divisionsthat fall underneath me.
So it's a good time.
Steve Morreale (05:13):
Are you liking it?
Jason Sieczkowski (05:15):
I love it.
I absolutely love it.
Field ops is where my heartlies.
When I was a commander and theinterim assistant chief, I had
the investigations bureau.
It was a great time.
I had a lot of fun.
And assistant chief, I had theinvestigations bureau.
It was a great time.
I had a lot of fun anddefinitely learned a lot about
what they do.
But I've never been a detective, I've never been inside that
bureau until I got to be thecommander and then the interim
assistant chief.
Coming back to field ops, itwas like a dream come true.
(05:37):
This is home.
Steve Morreale (05:39):
That's great.
Well, having done it for solong and loved it and believed
in it, why don't you tell mewhat your approach is?
So you were a commander andthen you were promoted to be an
assistant chief and now you'reresponsible for the uniform
branch and you're sitting around.
Obviously, you have some bossesunderneath you.
(06:02):
Some bosses underneath you.
Tell me about how you came toapproach your meetings and your
sit-downs and setting yourexpectations and getting people
sort of aligned to bemission-oriented.
Jason Sieczkowski (06:21):
That's a great question.
It's really about tailoringmessaging to each individual,
each individual commander.
That falls under me.
Now.
We did something a little uniquethis year in field ops, sat
down with all the commandersover the precincts and we came
up with a standardized set ofgoals for field operations for
(06:41):
the patrol side of our house.
Historically, what we've doneis we've had kind of disparate
goals and it can vary down tothe team level, the district
level or the precinct level, andthere was always this kind of
feeling of inequity acrosspatrol.
So this year what we did is wetook a data-driven approach and
then we looked at okay, what arethe averages of traffic stops,
(07:03):
subject stops, communitycontacts, proactive work and
just some other measurables.
We looked at that data, came upwith what the commanders and
myself felt was a reasonablemetric and we outlined that and
sent that out to all of patrol.
We tried to come up with justsomething that was a baseline
that we felt everyone couldachieve but would still push
(07:25):
them a little bit out of theircomfort zone.
Understanding their main job isobviously responding to those
emergency calls for service, butwe've done a lot of things in
Chandler to take a lot of thatworkload off of their plate
maybe some of those lower levelcalls for service that consume a
lot of time.
So what we've done with this isnow I want you to focus on
being a proactive cop, Sincewe've taken a lot of burglaries,
(07:47):
low-level traffic collisions,out of their house.
Now I want you to go beproactive.
We're blessed to work in a citythat supports that kind of work
.
We want aggressive cops thatensure our city and community
stays safe, and so that's whatwe've really pushed in and out
onto them.
As far as the commanders, it's avery simple concept for me and
I try to make it as easy aspossible.
(08:08):
I push them to have acommitment to continuous
improvement.
That is the goal for themAlways be pushing boundaries of
what we can do, asking for newthings, asking your people to
try new things.
We don't want to stagnate.
We don't want to stay still andcoast.
We're going to definitely pushthe boundaries.
In a city of innovation, weshould be on the forefront of
(08:29):
that, and that's really our goal, and that's how I kind of
tailor my message to all of mycommanders every single day.
What are we doing to improvenow?
Steve Morreale (08:38):
So where does that come from?
Was that internal?
Were you around other peoplewho had that same mindset?
It seems to me that you knowyou are a lifer at Chandler, and
yet I'd be curious to knowwhere you catch new ideas.
Maybe it's with the IACP, ormaybe it's with the Chiefs
Association, or reading.
(09:00):
My question is you know what?
What pushes the boundaries foryou, for jason?
Jason Sieczkowski (09:07):
the answer is yes to all of that.
I like to joke lovingly that wedon't come up with any original
ideas.
We just steal them from otherpeople.
That's okay.
It's about leveragingrelationships, leveraging those
networks that we buildthroughout this entire career.
It's through organizations likethe FBI and Northwestern
Command College.
Iacp, the Arizona ChiefsAssociation.
(09:29):
I'm also a member, justrandomly, of the Florida Chiefs
Association because it's a goodway to get a new perspective
from the East Coast and theywould let me in.
I reached out to a number ofother chiefs associations and
they said well, if you don'tlive here, you can't really be a
part of it, but florida floridawas desperate and they brought
you in huh like hey, come onboard, why not?
that's great pay my money and Iget to go see what they're
(09:51):
talking about on the floridachiefs board, and it opens up
another avenue of ideas andinnovation, even if they're
doing the same things.
That we are right.
This cop work is the same nomatter where you go Calls for
service, the challenges thatcities deal with but the
approach to addressing some ofthose things varies
geographically, and why wouldn'twe look to that?
(10:15):
It's a perspective I've neverhad, growing up on the West
Coast and then spending myentire adult life in Arizona.
We're always looking for thosenew ideas.
Steve Morreale (10:23):
I'm glad to hear that, because sometimes you
have people who almost haveblinders on and they just become
sort of insular.
So the lesson I'm hearing fromyou is reach out to others,
because other people are doingit, but they may just have a
just a slightly differentperspective that we can adapt,
because to me, a leader issomebody who looks at material
(10:45):
and looks to figure out how toadapt it for them.
And I would presume and that'sa presumption on my part, jason,
but that when you're looking atdocumentation or reading, it's
not always from the policesector.
Is that true?
Jason Sieczkowski (11:02):
It's absolutely true.
We support classes throughArizona State University.
It's integrating with ournon-governmental partners.
Intel's a big driver ofinnovation in our city, so we
try to partner with them.
How are you leveraging whatyou're doing in your industry
and how can we translate thatinto the public sector of
government work?
(11:23):
It really comes down to justcollaborating with all sides of
industry because ultimatelywe're all kind of dealing with
the same things.
Steve Morreale (11:31):
Well, that's interesting and it seems that
many, many years ago I was I waslucky, when I was in the
business, to take advantage ofthe bootstrap program, which was
an IACP program, and what theywere doing, well before its time
I think.
They were reaching out toindustry leaders insurance,
banking, healthcare and sayingwould you be willing to grab a
(11:53):
couple of law enforcement peopleto your training for leadership
?
Because, as you understand, yes, leadership and policing is a
little bit different because ofwhat we do day to day, but
leadership is just about peopleand about motivating people, and
so that's interesting.
When you said Intel, you'retalking about the Intel
Corporation.
Yes, sir, ah, I see, yeah, thatmakes an awful lot of sense
(12:15):
because clearly they're pushingpeople for innovation, and that
makes me think about I had justwritten a book.
It is called Leading Police withAI your Thought Partner
Enhancing Strategic Thinking,productivity and Creativity, or
Innovation, and I think that'sexactly what we have to do.
You're pushing the envelope andI love to hear that.
We're talking to Jason Sikowskiand he is an assistant chief in
(12:37):
Chandler, arizona, but one ofthe things I wonder, one of the
things I wonder Jason, is whatmotivates you to never stand or
rest on your laurels, to alwaysbe moving forward and always be
looking for innovative ideas.
Jason Sieczkowski (12:57):
I want to leave the place better than I
showed up here.
I look back over 19 years and Ithink to what we had when I
started in 2006, to where we'vecome now and really just the
innovation that's taken placeacross those 19 years and the
drivers that have gotten usthere, and if we didn't have
those people in place, we wouldnever be where we are now.
I want to be one of thosepeople.
(13:17):
I want to be driving theorganization forward, on the
cutting edge.
I want to be the beacon forother agencies to look to and
say okay, the city of Chandleris doing this.
How can we now do this too?
It's leveraging real-time,leveraging AI, like you just
mentioned, utilizing non-swornstaff to take calls for service
(13:39):
away from our sworn staff, wherethey can then focus on things
that cops need to focus on.
It's being on the forefront ofthat innovation.
It's driving the businessforward and really just pushing
us into that new, new era.
We're looking at a significantgenerational shift across the
industry right now.
Um, and, quite frankly, it's.
I don't know if we'll go intothis, but it's one of the
(14:01):
struggles we're facing, where wehonor tradition, but sometimes
we're too married to it as well,and we need to break free from
that.
Tradition is there for a reason.
Tradition is fantastic and it'sgot its place.
But just because we've alwaysdone it that way, we can't
continue to do it that way.
We'd still be carrying realguns, we wouldn't have computers
in cars, we wouldn't have cellphones, we wouldn't have a
(14:22):
real-time prime, you wouldn'thave drone as first responder
right now if we stayed stagnant.
So, really, what does it looklike in five years from now, in
10 years from now, and how can Ihelp set us up and my team to
get us into that new era?
Steve Morreale (14:36):
One of the things that I espouse, and I
believe that a leader, a trueleader, is really not focused on
themselves anymore, but focusedon the other people around them
, and I have a belief that whoyou leave in your wake is sort
of your legacy in a lot of ways.
In other words, who are you,who are your commanders looking
(14:58):
to develop so that theorganization can be sustained?
Not in your own likeness, butsomebody who is willing to take
on responsibility and givingthem that opportunity.
Talk about that in your life.
Jason Sieczkowski (15:12):
I think it's a great question.
So it's one of our currentthings that we're embarking on.
We discovered historicallywe've had a lot of single points
of fit and receive where ifsomebody I think we're pretty
not unique in this arena, that Ithink it's over half of our
department could retire today ifthey wanted to, just based on
tenure and kind of how the cyclehas gone through hiring, some
(15:32):
evolutions of budgets and allthe other things that play into
that.
So we see that someone couldleave tomorrow and what kind of
institutional, organizationalknowledge are they taking with
them?
And what we've seenhistorically is we haven't done
a good job of, I guess,implementing that succession
planning to ensure that thatknowledge is passed down and
(15:53):
that the person that next fillstheir seat can basically hit the
ground running.
That's one of the things wejust did.
I just opened up a sergeantposition in our advanced
training unit.
That sergeant that's in thatseat right now retires end of
June of 2026.
We're going to identify thatnew sergeant this month and give
them almost a year of lead uptime.
Now they won't fill that seat.
(16:14):
They're still going to be inpatrol or in detectives.
Wherever they're going to comefrom, they'll still be in that
seat, but we're going to bringthem into as we build out the
training calendar for 2026,we're going to start sending
them to all those certificationclasses that they'll need to be
successful in that role.
Understanding that 11 months oflead up time is probably pretty
(16:36):
close to what it's going totake to ensure we have
continuity of operations.
So as we look to do that, we'redoing that through all ranks
now.
It's right now.
My next sergeant that's on thelist is riding full time with a
sergeant right now acting as anofficer in charge.
He's going to get promoted,probably end of October.
Steve Morreale (16:54):
So this is, this is almost a field training
sergeant.
Jason Sieczkowski (16:58):
So he's going to.
He's in detectives right now.
They can spare his position andhis fellow detectives can pick
up his caseload, his workload,and we can put him with a
sergeant right now to basicallywork through that entire field
training process.
So when one sergeant retireshe'll come in, fill that seat
and he hits the ground runningtaking over patrol squad.
This is one of our long-termgoals that our new chief chief
(17:21):
Chapman has really pushed us tointegrate into the organization
is long-term succession planningthat overlap in the long runway
.
So that's kind of where we'regoing with that.
Steve Morreale (17:32):
Yeah, that's amazingly unique.
I have to say, at least to thenumber of people I have
interviewed, that I don't hearan awful lot of that.
The military does pretty muchthe same thing.
We don't we emulate themilitary.
We say we do, but the militaryprepares you well in advance for
the next position, and itsounds like you're doing the
same thing to identify that.
And the other thing is thatperson who's getting ready to
(17:54):
retire.
It seems to me that the idea ofknowledge management would be
that somebody would be there tosay hey Joe, let's talk for a
little while.
Let's spend an hour a week totalk about what you know now
about this position that youwish you knew when you first got
there.
In other words, how can wecapture some of the information
and the beliefs and thepractices that you have
(18:15):
developed over the years so thatwe can pass it down and allow
others not necessarily to stepin the same mud as you had to?
What do you think about thatidea?
Jason Sieczkowski (18:27):
No, I think it's fantastic.
It's let's learn from ourmistakes, let's learn from where
we were maybe deficient and howcan we mitigate that.
The whole job as assistantchiefs, commanders, lieutenants
is that mitigation of liability.
And we think liability in theoperational sense right,
protecting our officers, thecity, the community.
But it's also internal,organizational liability.
(18:48):
And that's if I'm puttingleaders over teams, how have I
prepared them to deal with thepersonnel issues, the
operational issues, theadministrative issues, all of
the things that come with thoseroles and that responsibility to
make sure that we care for andvalue our people?
They are truly our greatestasset.
And if we're deficient inpreparing them to take those
(19:08):
roles on day one, we've done theteam no favors and we've
certainly done that leader nofavor.
Steve Morreale (19:14):
So interesting to hear that You're a whole much
smarter than you look, jason,I'm just saying I can see you.
I'm teasing, of course I cansee you and you've got a great
sense of humor, and I'm onlyteasing.
I know that.
But I want to ask this question.
You talked about measurementand it also strikes me that we
don't measure some of the thingswe there, and yet 90% of the
(19:35):
time policing do not go hands-onright.
Most of it is not gettinginvolved in arrests.
And I understand how dangerousit can be when it gets to that
(19:57):
point.
But you're talking aboutrelationships and knowing the
community and knowing theschools and knowing the
businesses.
And how do you convey that?
To patrol, to be ready but notalways have to be in a command
and control mindset?
Jason Sieczkowski (20:17):
It's that becomes challenging in some
areas.
Right, because we think of whatdo cops want to do?
We want to drive fast, turn onred and blue lights.
We give all this cool equipment, even though that's only 5% to
10% of the job.
Right, it is really trying tohighlight.
Hey guys, we have a programthat's called SpiderTech I think
(20:37):
it just changed its namebecause it got bought out by
another company.
It's basically Yelp reviews forcops, what we call it
internally.
We have it playing across allthe TVs in the precincts.
I can send you a picture afterwe're done filming here so you
can see what that looks like.
For us it's a state-paidprogram, so it doesn't cost us a
dime, which is great.
And so every time our officersare interacting with the public,
(21:00):
it sends that individual ifthey're a victim of crime or if
they were in a traffic collision, something like that.
Hey, here's the call number,here's the call for service and
here's a link.
Click on it and tell us how wedid.
Tell us how we serve you.
We want to know how are weserving the community.
So every morning at 6 am, I getan email of all the calls from
the day before that.
(21:20):
People filled these out.
Right now, our rating for callsfor service that we responded to
is, I think, 4.73 out of 5.
People love us.
Our cops are serving thecommunity in such an incredible
fashion and they're providingthat level of customer service.
And to be able to measure thatand then share that with city
(21:41):
council, share that with thecity manager and share that with
the community really helps usenhance our brand.
It shows the community you seecops as the enforcement wing of
the government.
There's all of these other kindof things that come with
policing, but in reality we're acustomer service organization
and I can show you why.
I can show you how we measureour level of customer service,
(22:04):
where a year and a half ago Icould just say, yeah, we're
doing well, but now I can showyou a metric to say this is from
the community.
These are people thatinteracted with our officers and
there's text boxes that theycan fill out.
Underneath those ratings, wehave the free form comments.
I just saw one when I waswalking into my office to film
this.
Officer Aguilar responded to myrear end collision.
(22:26):
He was professional, he wasfast and I love the Chandler
Police Department and we playthose constantly on the loop to
let everyone know and it's aconstant reminder for patrol
sergeants, lieutenants,commanders, everybody Everything
we do is community based andit's important.
And look at how we're servingthe community.
The community supports you,they love you and this is kind
(22:48):
of.
This is the fruits of yourlabor.
Steve Morreale (22:50):
Well, it's positive reinforcement, which is
amazing that that would happen.
And so in your time in policing, I'm sure does Chandler have
body-worn cams?
Absolutely.
How has that changed people'sbehavior, your ability to
analyze and assess someone'sdemeanor, behavior, interactions
(23:14):
?
Jason Sieczkowski (23:16):
it certainly makes it easier from an
administrative perspective.
I was actually one of the firstones in the department to get a
body worn camera on the biketeam when I was there back in
2000.
Gosh, what was that?
14, 13, somewhere in that range.
Um, I was one of the first onesin the department to get one.
I was actually open to it.
I loved it because it made mycases easier to prosecute.
Steve Morreale (23:39):
And you can remember what the hell happened,
right, because you've got videocontent on it.
Jason Sieczkowski (23:44):
They did say that.
Oh yeah, I forgot about that.
It's fantastic and again, itserves as a way to really
highlight positive behavior butalso address negative behavior,
because we know that people arepeople.
We're going to come up short attimes.
It's just the reality of humannature.
So we can certainly use it toaddress that.
But what we really try to focuson is also highlighting
(24:05):
positive behavior.
One of the goals for sergeantsand lieutenants is they have to
do a random audit of two videosa month from their officers.
We've limited it to videos of20 minutes or less.
We use Axon Performance andrunning in the background of our
evidencecom portal and it pickstwo videos at random.
They click on watch, they watchthe video.
They can put comments in there.
(24:26):
Hey, you did great on this callLove the de-escalation.
What I want you to work on ismaybe this next time, or let's
talk about the tactics you usedon this and it's a way that we
can measure and always look toimprove but also then reinforce
those positive outcomes orpositive things that we're doing
in the community and for people.
Steve Morreale (24:45):
Great.
There's a couple of questions.
We're talking to Jason Sikowskiand he is in Chandler, arizona.
He is the assistant chiefresponsible for the uniform
division and one thing is, asyou sit back and reflect early
on you talked about data-drivenoversight and management and, of
course, evidence-based policingis big now and being pushed
(25:07):
quite a bit.
Are we, in policing, measuringthe right things?
We have a tendency to countbeans.
We made these kinds of stopsand of these stops, this was a
warning, this was a ticket, thiswas a felony stop, this was a
misdemeanor.
We issued a summons.
We're counting most of theenforcement stuff.
(25:29):
Do we count the community stuff?
Jason Sieczkowski (25:34):
That's where I think we're getting better,
but I think there's definitelyroom to improve.
It's funny we just talked aboutthis kind of yesterday in a
retirement that I was in and oneof our traffic officers was
retiring after 25, almost 26years and I told him I said,
gary, the things that we can'tmeasure are things that we'll
never know.
How many lives did you save bystopping that DUI?
(25:54):
How many lives did you save bystopping a speeding car?
I'll be honest, I don't knowhow we'll ever measure that.
But I come back to things likeSpiderTech, things like Axon
Performance that are allowing usto really kind of measure how
we're interacting in thecommunity.
Getting away from enforcementstops, getting away from arrests
, tickets, subject stops,contacts those are all important
(26:16):
measurables.
I don't want to diminish that.
But it's also how are webuilding community trust, how
are we building communitycohesiveness?
Just understanding that withoutthe public support we don't
exist as law enforcement,certainly not here in Chandler,
but anywhere.
So I think we've gotten betterby kind of developing some of
these new technologies that canshow us and really stepping
(26:39):
outside the comfort zone.
Again, I hate to harp on ourspider tech.
When we rolled that out, it wasmet.
I think I had people at myoffice door with pitchforks and
torches.
I had to do a Kevlarreinforcement on the wall.
I mean it was not.
Those were some difficultbriefings to sit in, telling
people.
Hey, you know, after you meetand interact with someone,
(27:01):
they're going to get a surveylink to tell us how you did and
tell us if you did well.
If they felt you came up short,we're going to see it because
our community deserves it.
We want transparency, we wantto enhance that transparency and
it was.
There was a lot of fear, a lotof apprehension, I'll even dare
say some anger.
Steve Morreale (27:22):
Well, it was fear of the unknown and and what
.
What they're going to be?
You're going to be able tocomplain about me.
Jason Sieczkowski (27:27):
Well, it was how many eyes are you going to
cut because of this?
And, steve, do you know howmany IAs we've cut because of
that technology?
No, zero, zero.
We haven't cut a single one.
We have had conversations withpeople hey, this came up, let's
go back and watch the body-worncamera and let's assess, kind of
, where we're at.
But we've issued absolutelyzero discipline as a result of
(27:50):
that.
But it does allow usperspective in things that maybe
we would have missed before,because we can't watch Everybody
can, the sergeant can't be onscene of every call and it
allows us to kind of addressmaybe some minor things when
we've fallen short and get thatperson on track or say, hey,
let's tweak this for next time.
You know, maybe not for themthat way.
(28:11):
Or let's look at this as aperspective.
Steve Morreale (28:13):
And I was going to say perception is reality to
so many people and if you'recoming on strong, that's.
You know, everybody is touchyand again, in all of the
training I do, you can come onstrong, but you don't have to
start strong, right?
I mean, it's that whole idea ofde-escalation.
Let me ask you this Do you feelthat you are a leader when
(28:38):
you're in meetings, where you'relistening better but, more
importantly, that you're leadingwith questions?
You're posing questions to getpeople to think more deeply?
Jason Sieczkowski (28:47):
Absolutely, I think, the best meetings I run
are where I talk to me.
Absolutely, I think the bestmeetings I run are where I talk
the least, where I can just sitback, maybe do the introduction.
Hey, set kind of the vision orthe parameters.
This is where we're trying toget to.
What do you all think and howdo we get there?
Because I think you said itbest, steve, smarter than I.
Look right, if I just sit backand I let the people that
(29:14):
actually know these roles, knowthese jobs and do that process
every day talk and come up witha decision A there's better
buy-in and B it's just going tobe better.
Because I'll be honest, I don'tknow.
I've never booked someone intoour jail Once we went to the new
jail system.
I've never done it.
So how am I going to direct aproject that deals with that?
But if I talk to the detentionsergeant, the detention officers
(29:35):
, the patrol officers that aredealing with it every day, hey,
come up with a new process andtell me how to get there.
They know they're important,their opinion and their
perspective is valued and itallows them to then carry that
message forward.
Hey, we came up with this, itwasn't forward.
Hey, we came up with this.
It wasn't quote admin that cameup with this.
(29:57):
This is the process we wantedand we decided on, and we work
there collaboratively to getthere.
Steve Morreale (30:03):
That's terrific to hear, and it seems to me.
So let me go back a little bit,without throwing anybody under
the bus.
I'm sure in the past you haveworked for bosses that do not
engage, that did not seek input,that were sort of more
authoritative.
This is what we're talkingabout and you know you've been
(30:25):
at all kinds of meetings, and sohave I.
Where it is a sit down and itis a barking out of well, got to
do this, got to do that, got todo this Any questions, and when
the questions come up, theperson has a look on it that
says I don't want your questions.
I'm sure that over time youhave changed, but how do you set
the table?
(30:46):
Literally, you're chuckling.
So respond to that.
Jason Sieczkowski (30:50):
How do I set the table?
Sorry, mr Carter, you kind ofno.
No what?
Steve Morreale (30:53):
I'm asking is you chuckled a little bit?
Jason Sieczkowski (30:55):
I'm curious why obviously you know those
kinds of people.
So the quote that I've told somany people and I said it really
kind of set where I've gone ortried to go as a leader.
I'm sure there's others thatwould disagree, but I remember I
was in a meeting with meetingwith someone who was higher up
in the organization, and thequote was I don't pay you for
(31:17):
your opinion.
And I went okay, I know where Istand now.
Let me give you a spreadsheet.
Here you are.
It was that really.
It sticks with me.
I still remember the meeting tothis day, and I never wanted to
be that person, which is weird,because I'm good friends with
this person still to this day.
I still talk to them, we'revery good friends, we're close,
(31:37):
but it was in that moment I knewthat wasn't the leader I wanted
to be, and I was a sergeant atthe time, and it just kind of
sets me up.
It's a good reminder and again,I'm not perfect, I'm not here
to tell you I am.
I'm sure I've run meetings likethat.
I know I've never said thatthough, and so it's.
It's just that reminder of hey,you know, the first, the very
(31:59):
first priority that we have inleadership in our organization
is we care for and value people.
And if I'm using phrases likethat, I'm not living that.
In fact, I'm the opposite ofthat.
Right, you're diminishing them.
Steve Morreale (32:12):
Right, you're diminishing them Right, you're
diminishing them, and it'sinteresting because I say this
in so many trainings that I do,and that is that we are in a
discipline sometimes that hiressupposedly the best and then all
too often, especially whenthey're young and they're
rookies, or a couple of years in, we tell them to sit there,
(32:32):
shut up.
We're not looking for input,and I think it's a major mistake
and I think we need to valueour people and it sounds like
that's what's happening.
But again, going back to thequestion about setting the table
, so you are now no longer acommander, you've risen up, you
are one of the top four in theChandler Police Department and
you're running the meeting forthe first time.
(32:54):
How do you set the table aboutexpectations, about when I'm,
when we're having a meeting?
I value your input, I expectyour input.
I do not want silence.
Tell me how those that was setfor you.
Jason Sieczkowski (33:10):
I actually lay it out just like that.
I go hey, this meeting isn'tabout me, it's about trying to
get to a better process, get towhatever outcome we're trying to
achieve.
I need that throughconversation, through discussion
, and if I'm taking us down abad path, not only do I expect
that you're going to tell me, Idemand it Because if we go down
(33:30):
a bad path and you don't sayanything about it, we've all
failed.
It's not just on me, it's onall of us.
I need honest feedback.
I'm putting my ego aside and ifI have a bad idea, please tell
me, because I would rather pivotand change it, even if we've
already gone down the road.
Then just keep operating undersunk costs of well, we're just
(33:52):
going to keep dumping thingsinto this, even though this is
terrible.
So I think it's important tohave that open, honest dialogue,
especially at the beginning,when we start having meetings,
on whatever we're trying toaccomplish.
Let's be open and honest.
Try to take the rank out of itin here.
I gotcha.
Steve Morreale (34:10):
I think it's important for leaders to
recognize that they don't knoweverything and admit that, and I
think the leaders who I beganto lose respect for were people
who would say things just to befillers and they were wrong.
Everything.
(34:33):
And that to me was not, was notanything negative, because you
can't, you don't know what youdon't know.
And and if you don't knoweverything and you and you
realize that, how important isthis word in your bearing as a
leader vulnerability andhumility.
Jason Sieczkowski (34:48):
Incredibly important.
Talk about it.
Vulnerability equals trust.
If I'm not vulnerable to mystaff and my personnel at all
levels, they're not going totrust me.
If I look like a robot to them,why would they ever open up to
me?
Why would they talk to me?
Why would they want to?
I'm very open.
I have pictures of my wife, mykids, my dogs around my office.
(35:10):
We shoot a weekly video herecalled Inside Command.
It's kind of my joke.
One of my wife, my kids, mydogs around my office.
We shoot a weekly video herecalled Inside Command.
It's kind of my joke.
One of my dogs, portillo.
He's a little dachshund.
He sits over my shoulder inthat video and so we shoot him
at different locations and Itake that picture with me now
and he's always over my shoulderand it's a way to say look, the
assistant chief is human.
We have a lot of new cops whoprobably don't know me.
(35:40):
They know who I am when I walkby, but if it just creates a
little bit sense of no, he'sactually a normal person, that's
always a good thing.
To be vulnerable, it buildstrust.
That's the key.
And letting them know hey, I'mnot perfect, I've made mistakes.
Hey, I know, I'm giving youdiscipline out of this IA.
Let me tell you about thepursuit I had back in 2009 where
I took a hit.
You can overcome this.
Steve Morreale (35:57):
It's okay.
It's not fatal, right?
Yeah, you know we have to beaccountable.
This is our way of holding youaccountable.
But now go back, get back onyour horse and get back to work.
Jason Sieczkowski (36:09):
It's okay.
Like that's okay.
We all make mistakes.
You'll overcome this.
We've got you on a good pathand I've been there too, Like
I've got hits in my jacket, soit's okay.
Steve Morreale (36:19):
You know, and I I I love to use the word hope.
You know I had a boss who wouldsay you know, steve, I see what
you do with people and and whatI do realize is that even when
you're chewing them out, the onething you do is you give them
hope hope that they can learnfrom this and hope that they can
do better and hope that theycan overcome this and go down.
(36:39):
You know the correct path andthat that, to me, was a was a
badge of honor.
I think, in a lot of ways, thatyou always have to give people
hope.
Jason Sieczkowski (36:48):
Yeah, it always comes from a position of
love, like we love you as ahuman, as an employee, as a man
or woman, like we, we value youin the organization and just you
in general.
Steve Morreale (37:07):
And this may hurt right now, it may not make
you feel good, but we're stillhere to support you.
Well, I always say that gettinga bit from behind just gives
you calluses on your ass, andthat's what made me a little bit
stronger as I went through mylittle rips here and there.
The 40 under 40, thatparticular award what did that
mean to you?
That's pretty special.
Jason Sieczkowski (37:24):
Just an incredible honor, something I
didn't expect.
I remember my wife and I wereon a staycation in Tucson and I
got the call from my thenassistant chief saying that I
got that.
I got it.
I didn't even know they put mein for it.
Just an incredible honor to beone of those individuals
nominated, named, selected toreceive it out of the, the IACP
(37:46):
global, you know ecosystem.
Steve Morreale (37:50):
Just incredible honor what did it change for you
with that honor?
Jason Sieczkowski (37:57):
I don't think it didn't change much.
Steve Morreale (38:00):
You didn't get paid anymore.
Jason Sieczkowski (38:01):
I understand all that kind of stuff, but but
I have a great trophy that sitson my desk right back there.
Yes, it was a.
What it did was it openedanother avenue of networking.
I talked to some of thosepeople still over LinkedIn and,
just again, share perspectives.
Some of them aren't even in lawenforcement anymore and they
run their own business, aconsulting business, things
along those lines and I thinkit's an avenue of perspective
(38:26):
where you can see what otherpeople are doing.
Hey, how did you overcome this?
And again, we're not all in thesame realm, right.
Some are PIOs, some are pio,some are cops, some were.
You know other arenas in thelaw enforcement, you know big
machine.
How did you deal with this?
What technology you're using?
Now, how did you deal with thispersonnel issue?
Like, I've got an employeethat's doing this.
Have you ever seen this?
(38:46):
How?
How did you do this?
Or how did you navigate thatsuccessfully?
So I think for me, the biggestavenue that it opened was just
that networking side of it andlike-minded leaders who are
generationally similar too.
Again, kind of go back to thegenerational shift in law
enforcement, and it's good tohave people that are of a
(39:08):
similar tenure, that you canlean on and say how are you
doing?
Steve Morreale (39:13):
That's interesting because I think, and
that's why I begin to focus onthe 40 under 40 because you are
the future.
Obviously, you're here in the,you're in the present tense, but
you are the future and thosewho make it, and the 40 who were
just named, from all over theworld, just as are amazing to me
, and some are civilian staffand some are, some are I don't
mean simply, but sergeants and afew officers there.
(39:35):
So it's very, very important.
I want to ask and we're talkingto Jason Sikowsky and he's in
Arizona but if you had to giveme some words to describe your
leadership philosophy, whatmight that be?
Philosophy?
(39:56):
What might that be?
In other words, what are thethings that you hold dear to you
about interacting with otherpeople and working on your
leadership approach with them?
Jason Sieczkowski (40:03):
It all comes back to the philosophy of
continuous improvement.
That's the biggest thing.
It's pushing people to alwaysbe improving.
Every day should be a littlebit better than the last.
We should always beuncomfortable in what we're
doing, um, and be striving to bea little bit better than the
day before personally,professionally, spiritually,
(40:26):
financially, whatever that lookslike for you and it's not
always unique, it's not alwaysgoing to be the same thing,
right, you're going to have anoff day at work, that's okay.
How are you working on yourpersonal life then?
How are you working on yourphysical fitness?
How are you working on yourmental fitness?
You know, academic fitness itdoesn't have to just be
professionally related, but ifwe're always striving to be in
(40:49):
that mindset of continuousimprovement, that's where
everything starts with.
Is what we're doing hereleading to a better outcome for
you, for the organization, forour community, for our city?
How are we improving?
Steve Morreale (41:03):
They say leaders are readers.
What are you reading?
Jason Sieczkowski (41:08):
Oh man, right now Not much, Steve.
Steve Morreale (41:13):
Okay, so you're not a leader, you're not reading
.
No, no, no, no.
Jason Sieczkowski (41:16):
It's been a while.
Steve Morreale (41:17):
But what?
No, I'm not talking about booksas much as you know where.
What are you looking at?
You know to keep sharp and keepon top of things.
Are you looking at at policechief magazine?
Are you reading any blogs,those kinds of things?
You know what is what ispushing you to to think bigger,
and if you find an article, doyou share that with some of your
(41:37):
other leaders.
Jason Sieczkowski (41:40):
Oh, all the time it's the IACP monthly, the
police chief magazine, differentarticles that are coming out on
IACP PERF.
Certainly it's those lawenforcement publications.
That's what we're constantlysharing back and forth over
email blogs, just interactingwith the other, even just chiefs
here that are a part ofdifferent organizations that
(42:01):
they're seeing, you know,different publications coming
out through their arenas and howcan we leverage that in field
ops?
Steve Morreale (42:07):
Great.
I'm glad to hear that Newofficer comes in.
Obviously for most, first stopis patrol.
Do you have the opportunity tosit with them?
Jason Sieczkowski (42:19):
Every time.
Steve Morreale (42:20):
Tell me what that's about.
Jason Sieczkowski (42:22):
Yeah.
So I go meet with them whenthey're in their post-academy
phase.
So, even if they're laterals ornew recruits that have just
graduated the academy, I maketime.
I take 15 minutes or so, 20minutes maybe to go sit with
their group and I introducemyself first of all.
I tell them hey, I know, whenwe got your new hire email, I
sent you this email.
(42:42):
It says welcome.
Hey, we're part of a broaderfamily up here.
New organizations and change isalways scary, but we're here to
make sure you're successful.
Here's my phone number.
Here's my email.
It's on 24-7.
You can always call me.
I've never gotten a call fromone of them yet, but I put it
out there and when I go sit downwith them, I tell them okay,
(43:03):
this is who I am, this is how Igot here.
This has kind of been my pathto get here and this is what
I've seen.
You're going to choose your ownpath now and we're blessed to
have you as part of ourorganization, no matter where
you've come from.
We want your ideas, just like Iwant you to steal our ideas and
send them back to where you camefrom, especially if they're
(43:25):
laterals.
Maybe you've seen a processthat is better than ours, I want
you to bring that here and Iwant you to share that up the
chain.
And, conversely, if you see aprocess that we do that's better
than where you came from, or aprogram, something, steal it and
share it with your old agency.
(43:45):
Please do.
If you see a tactic that theyshould use, because you know
we're well-connected in thestate of Arizona here, send it.
We want our people to Send it.
We want our people to be safe.
We want you to serve yourcommunity better, so we are open
to it.
That is what.
That's where we've gotten halfof our ideas.
These are laterals that we'rehiring.
It's they bring ideas fromtheir agency in Michigan, in New
(44:07):
York, in Washington, california, new Mexico, wherever they're
coming from.
We're taking ideas and bringingthem and linking them ours.
Steve Morreale (44:15):
So you're, you're looking at laterals from
all over the country.
Jason Sieczkowski (44:19):
We leverage laterals.
We're literally unique in theValley.
We lean on laterals more thannew recruits.
We've seen such a high level ofsuccess with them that that's
where we're really targeting alot of our recruiting efforts.
Steve Morreale (44:33):
Really and you've had success.
Jason Sieczkowski (44:34):
It's also easy to get them on board.
We don't have to wait sixmonths for an academy and then a
full FTO process.
We can speed up the FTO processfrequently and get them solo
capable a lot faster.
I'm amazed at the amount ofsuccess we've had with Laterals.
I know when we started downthat path there was some
apprehension People are runningfrom agencies and all the other
(44:57):
kind of things that come withalways hear about laterals.
We have not seen that.
It's been a point of pride forus, in fact.
Steve Morreale (45:04):
That's an interesting concept.
I'm glad to hear that because Iknow that I saw Florida saying,
even when the FBI was havingproblems, that we'll take if if
you've been spurned by youragency will take you.
And I think that's that's veryinteresting because I know when
you're looking at laterals youhave the ability to go and look
at their background to seewhether or not they've had a lot
(45:25):
of complaints and if they passmuster then that's pretty good
because they've already come intrained.
You just have to retrain themthe Chandler way, I'm sure.
Jason Sieczkowski (45:34):
We do.
I was just talking to one inthe hallway that just finished
up his polygraph before I camein.
Steve Morreale (45:40):
So one of the things you indicated was there
were generational differencescoming.
It does not mean becausesomebody is a 20-something and
has a different life view thatthey are not going to be
beneficial to the organization.
In a lot of ways, I thinkleaders have to adapt More than
asking them to adapt to us.
(46:01):
We have to adapt to them in alot of ways because they bring a
lot to the table if we ask.
Talk about what that means toyou.
The generational differences.
Jason Sieczkowski (46:11):
I think you again you've hit it spot on.
I think those 20 plus year copsthat's who we're really leaning
on to impart institutional,organizational knowledge on our
new cops.
Tell them what the Chandler wayis.
Tell them how we've gotten towhere we are.
Tell them about the historygood and bad.
Tell them how we've missteppedas an organization the
(46:32):
controversies that we've beenembroiled in, because that's
going to help them shape theirpath to avoid those as we go
down the road.
And on that same page, I askthat our 20-year cops be open to
new ideas from our young, ouryoung cops that are coming out
of the private sector.
They're coming from real estateagents, technology backgrounds,
ai firms.
Let them teach you how to dosome new things that we've never
(46:56):
been a part of as anorganization.
So, just just like I say,generational differences doesn't
mean it's going to be a fight.
It's just we have to worktogether and be open-minded, be
willing to change, learn, grow,bend and adapt.
Steve Morreale (47:11):
Well, in a lot of ways we're hiring our own
kids, right, If you're a20-something person, you're
hiring someone similar to yourown kin and you have to be
receptive to that and be willingto understand that there are
differences.
There's a difference in workethic, and that's an adaptation
(47:34):
that we all have to deal with inmy mind.
But I love to use the ladder oflife is what I call it and I
draw a ladder, If I can have youvisualize this, I draw a ladder
and I put 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 onthe side of the ladder.
And what I say when I'm sayingthat we have 20 something, 30
(47:54):
something, 40 something, 50somethings and in some cases, 60
somethings working in ourorganization.
Each one of those generationshas a different view of work and
of the 20-somethings and it'sgoing to cause friction,
naturally, until we becomeopen-minded and receptive.
And it sounds like you'recloser, even at your age.
(48:18):
You're closer to the20-something than a late
60-something and I presume thatsometimes you have to have
conversations with someone whomay be older than you to
basically buffer what that20-something brings to the table
.
It looks like that does happen.
Talk to me.
Jason Sieczkowski (48:38):
That was one of my biggest challenges
promoting into leadership.
I was younger than a lot of thepeople I would supervise and
having to kind of overcome thegenerational gap there and
really what that looks like forthem.
But going back to your questionabout maybe being the buffer or
the conduit between thosegenerations, I think that our
(48:59):
20-year-olds, our 20-somethingsand fun fact, I've got a
21-year-old daughter who I'mlike and I could hire her in
McKinsey they're smarter thanwe've ever been, even my
generation of 19, 20 years on.
Certainly we have some peoplethat have been here for 30 years
.
They are smarter and betterequipped than we've ever been,
and I say that kindly.
They are smarter and betterequipped than we've ever been,
(49:22):
and I say that kindly.
But when we look at it fromwhat's the big?
What's the big talking point inpolicing right now?
Ai and wellness, right liketechnology and wellness are two
big kind of pillars that we'reall focusing on in the space
we're living in right now.
One of the things that ourchief tells everyone when they
retire is I hope you left herebetter or physically, mentally
fit than when you started.
(49:42):
And yesterday in the retirementI heard him say but that may
not be accurate for you becausehistorically we haven't done a
good job of making that priority.
A lot of our older generationand I see it, one of our
officers that retired last yearhe was working 50, 70 hours a
week of overtime because hevalued money.
He valued that money that camefrom that and working those
(50:04):
shifts and I worry about thatbecause, well, he valued that.
You know what he called thework ethic.
What is that doing to yourlong-term health, longevity,
resiliency Whereas I have a 21,22, 23, up to 25 year old, maybe
they want to do 40 now and theywant to spend time with their
family, their kids, their dogs,whatever that looks like and
(50:25):
work out or hike or whatever,yeah, to keep themselves fit.
That's a smarter avenue thanwe've ever taken.
Because they have longevity.
They know that pensions havechanged.
They can't retire until they're52 and a half now, right
Whereas I can retire at 42.
They're going to be here for alot longer tenure.
They've got to do a better jobof taking care of themselves and
(50:49):
they have more information todo that with, more resources to
do that with.
So, while the image or theperspective may be, well, they
don't work hard and they're nothere.
They're not picking up all theovertime.
Is that a bad thing?
We have 348 cops that can pickup overtime.
Why is it all on that oneperson?
You're going to retire in ayear and you've done 25 years.
(51:10):
They have to do 30.
They're better equippedmentally, physically,
emotionally to do this job thanwe've ever been.
So why don't we look to themand celebrate that instead and
say, hey, maybe they're actuallyon the right track and maybe a
broader section of thedepartment needs to pick up some
of those shifts and we can allcollectively split that apart?
Steve Morreale (51:32):
Yeah, that's a great perspective and a great
point of view that you hold andhave and that you've conveyed to
us.
Let me ask as we wind down.
We're talking to Jason Sikowskiand he's a Chandler, he's an
assistant chief and he was oneof the 40 under 40 with the ICP.
Jason Sieczkowski (51:53):
What did you think when I called you?
I thought it was a spam callSteve, 30 a day.
No, I was shocked.
Honestly, I did not expect that.
It's always an honor every timeI get to talk to any group and
share who we are as ChandlerPolice Department, chandler as a
city.
I believe we're a premier lawenforcement agency.
I believe we're a premier city,a city built on resilience and
(52:14):
an organization certainly builton that.
Just an honor, like I said,anytime I can share anything
that we're doing and maybe helpsomeone else out, it's a very
happy day for me Good.
Steve Morreale (52:28):
I'm glad I think you know I chided you a bit
that you look that you'resmarter than you look, but the
fact is, I think that you sitthere and what you're conveying
is that you're a thought leaderand you are working with your
agency to try to make it abetter agency than it already is
, and that's quite a step, Ithink.
I'm so glad to be able to chatwith you and look forward to
(52:52):
dealing with you in the future,but I just want to ask you what
your view is, because policinghas gone through some difficult
times and I think we're on theupswing, but what's your belief
in policing as a career?
Jason Sieczkowski (53:12):
I think it's the greatest career.
I think it's a noble profession.
It is an absolute necessity ofa job.
I think people call us whenthey're having bad days.
Human nature is we're notalways going to get along.
There will always be a need forit.
I cannot imagine a bettercareer where you can make a
bigger impact on anything froman individual's life to an
(53:37):
entire community.
I think this is the greatestjob in the world.
There's nothing else I canimagine doing.
Steve Morreale (53:44):
Well, like you said earlier, it seems to me, if
we can look, there are certainsegments of Chandler or any
other city that cause a greatdeal of problems.
That cause a great deal ofproblems and yet there are some
great people who live even inthose areas.
And you know, I just wonder,you know how you help create the
(54:08):
mindset that it's not usagainst them, that we're
guardians.
We'll be warriors when we haveto be, but generally guardians.
Is that a fair assessment?
Jason Sieczkowski (54:18):
Yeah, absolutely Every day.
We have to be integrated intothe community.
Every day we have to be a partof this city, in this community,
and we do that through justsimple interactions.
It's the moments of truth,velocity, right.
Every interaction is a chanceto make a positive impression,
where every time we're talkingto somebody, even when I stop at
at Starbucks in the morningright, I stopped there, I know
(54:40):
the baristas by now you can sayhi to people that are sitting
waiting in line for coffee Maybethey're on their phone and just
share hey, how's your day going?
It's you become human Justbecause you wear a blue suit
every day.
We're still human and so whenyou can be vulnerable again
coming back to that word youbuild trust, and that's just not
(55:01):
internally, that's externallywith our community.
So, be vulnerable, say how'syour day going, you know.
Steve Morreale (55:07):
Well, I think, I think approachability becomes
important, right that that.
That that's what ends uphappening.
And when you're on a bike,that's a great way to approach
people.
When you're a dog officer, it'sa great.
It's a great way to approachpeople.
When you're a dog officer, it'sa great way to approach people.
And I always say, wheneverpossible, make friends for the
police department.
We don't need more enemies,Right, Absolutely.
(55:29):
It's a great point, Steve.
Well, thank you very much.
You have the last word.
What do you leave yourlisteners with a positive view
on policing and leadership?
Jason Sieczkowski (55:43):
I think care for and value people.
People are our greatest asset,internally in our cities and our
communities.
If we lead with caring for andvaluing people, everything we do
will be positive after that.
People are what drives thisworld, this community, our
profession.
Everything we do ispeople-centric.
So lead with that in your heart.
(56:04):
Care for and value people.
They are everything to us.
So take care of yourselves,take care of your families and
take care of your cities andeverything else will fall into
place Terrific.
Steve Morreale (56:17):
We've been having the opportunity to talk
to Jason Sikowski in Chandler,arizona, today, and so that's
another episode of the Cop Talkpodcast in the can.
I thank you, jason, for takingthe time to be with me.
Jason Sieczkowski (56:31):
Thank you.
Steve Morreale (56:31):
I wish you the best of luck.
So that's it.
Let me know if there's anybodyI should be talking to.
Thanks for reaching out.
The last I checked 97 countriesare listening and 3,600 cities,
which just mystifies me.
Thank you, don't be afraid toreach out.
I'm always, very often, I'llcall you if you reach out.
So please let me know what weshould be talking about, who we
(56:55):
should be talking to.
Thanks, keep your people safe.
Intro-Outro (57:16):
Have a good day.
This is the CopDoc podcast forregular episodes of interviews
with thought leaders in policing.
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