ADHD Later in Life: Truths, Tools, and Aha Moments (with Dr. Jennifer Dall)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:17):
Hi there, and welcome to the Couch Next Door,
where a happy hour meets atherapy session.
I'm your host, Candace Fraser, alicensed professional counselor.
Each week I'm honored to have afriend come sit on my couch and
we'll dive into an area ofmental health that is impacting
their world.
We'll definitely laugh, probablycry, and maybe go on a rant or

(00:39):
too, because we are all humansfull of emotions.
Come hang out with us.
Dr.
Jennifer Dahl is agrief-informed neurodivergence

(00:59):
specialist and the founder ofADHD holistically.
Diagnosed with ADHD in her 50safter years of being told she
couldn't possibly have it, Dr.
Jennifer knows firsthand thechallenges of navigating
misinformation and maskingsymptoms, especially for women
diagnosed later in life.
Now she specializes in helpingothers identify what truly works

(01:19):
for them, focusing on practical,quick-fix strategies that
simplify daily life withoutrelying on medication or a
one-size-fits-all approach.
With over 25 years of experienceas an educator and a background
in ADHD coaching, yogainstruction, and grief
education, Dr.
Jennifer offers a holistic,deeply personal approach to
helping neurodivergentindividuals thrive.

(01:42):
Y'all, I had some real ahamoments in this conversation
with Dr.
Jennifer Dahl.
As you'll hear, I open up a bitabout my own personal journey,
specifically getting an ADHDdiagnosis in my 40s.
It's a topic that hits close tohome for me, but it's also
something I've been seeing moreand more in the therapy room,
especially among women later inlife.
This isn't a new thing.

(02:03):
ADHD has always been there, butthanks to people like Dr.
Jennifer and the growingconversations around
neurodiversity, we're finallystarting to see it more clearly.
And let me tell you, Dr.
Jennifer is truly one of ourbiggest allies in this space.
She gets it, both professionallyand personally.
And her insight is a gift.
As you listen, I want to inviteyou to be curious.

(02:26):
Curious about how some of thesepatterns might show up in your
life.
Curious about the way you talkto yourself when things feel
hard.
Curious about how you see otherswho may be struggling with the
same invisible challenges.
And most importantly, let thisbe a space where you extend
grace to yourself and to thosearound you.
All right, here is myconversation with Dr.

(02:49):
Jennifer Dahl.
All right, Dr.
Jennifer Dahl.
Welcome to the couch next door.
Thank you, Candace.
I'm so happy to be here.
This is really exciting.
Yes, I'm happy to have you.
Um so tell us a little bit aboutyourself, like who you are, what
you do, um, maybe even a littlebrief overview of why you do the

(03:13):
work that you do.

SPEAKER_01 (03:14):
Okay, sure.
Um, I'm Dr.
Jennifer Dahl.
I spent many years, what 25years maybe, in education.
I was a teacher.
I did a little bit ofadministrative work, worked a
lot with special education andsome general education, mostly
high school.
I liked secondary and highschool best.
They were my my people.

(03:35):
Um I was your typical, I think,overachieving Gen Xer and did
not understand why.
Um so I had a background inADHD.
I taught students, I've takenclasses, I I've done all of it.
And over time, little littlethings just keep clicking.
And I think part of it was alsowe learned more, you know.

(03:56):
So many people think about ADHD,and it's that eight-year-old boy
who you know can't controlthemselves and can't shut up and
all those kinds of things.
And so anything else was notseen as that.
Um so over time, the just keptclicking and clicking, and I
learned more and more, and Ifinally got the nerve and the I
guess internal power to actuallybe very assertive with my

(04:18):
doctors and say, I think we needto talk about this.
And we did, and it was like,yeah, yeah, you have ADHD.
And so the process of that itwas not the end, you know, it
was not like, oh, all theanswers are here.
Um wouldn't that be nice?
It was, it would be, it wasanother chapter, another book.

(04:40):
It was like, okay, here we go.
You're going into a whole notherpart of life.
Um, and I left education partlybecause I really wanted to start
working with people on my ownterms.
You know, in in the schools,you're you've got certain
requirements, certain ways youhave to do things.
And I really wanted to just beable to work with people.
I started off working withstudents and developed more and

(05:02):
more of an interest in workingwith um adults, particularly
women, um, just because I know Iknow where they've been and I
know the how much important howimportant it is to me when I
meet somebody who um is a littlebit ahead of me and I can learn
from them.
Absolutely.
So I have taken time.
I I quit teaching, I started myown business, which has been its

(05:23):
own journey.
Um and I've gone into reallywanting to help and work with
that along the way.
Many other things have happenedin the past five years, uh,
which has led me to understandnot just ADHD, but what I call
ADHD plus one, which is howother things really impact all
of it.
And we're gonna talk about thatbecause I love I love yes, how

(05:44):
you how you look at that.
Um including how we seeourselves.
Um I really want to be, I don'tknow, your sister, your friend,
your whatever, that's like, hey,I'm a couple of steps ahead of
you.
Yeah and let's figure this outbecause I believe in you.
Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 (06:00):
So your company's ADHD holistically.
Yes.
Okay.
And so why is that name soimportant to what you're doing?

SPEAKER_01 (06:08):
Um, because I tend to look at things in kind of an
eclectic, holistic way.
I um I am not here to downplayour medical environment or
medication or anything, but Ialso truly believe that we have
to look at so many parts ofourselves, all parts of
ourselves.
And so it's kind of thisholistic view of all the
components I can control or Ican work on or I can learn

(06:31):
about, and looking at andlooking at all of it and getting
the big picture.
And so that's why holisticallyspoke to me is a word.

SPEAKER_00 (06:39):
Yeah, yeah, I love that.
Well, and and uh we're gonnalink your website because I
think your website is I mean,just even looking at it first
first of all, it's visually justvery pretty and very well
organized.
I just, yeah, it's very easy tofind with that.
Well, whoever you hired, you dida good job hiring.
Um, but but also and and I don'tknow, let's let's talk really

(07:02):
briefly about your card deckthat you created.
Can we talk about that just realquick?

SPEAKER_01 (07:08):
We certainly talk about that.
Yeah.
The ADHDSO's card deck.
Um it was created as yet anotherway to get information out in a
manageable, manageable sort ofsystem.
So it's a card deck that umpresents kind of just scenarios
that are specific and yet vague.

(07:28):
So even if you're like, no, thishas not happened to me, you may
be able to replace some otherwords and be like, oh yeah, this
isn't happening at work, this ishappening at home.
And it gives you somesuggestions, real quick
suggestions and a little bitmore information.
Um, and some quick hints.
So, I mean it's it's a carddeck, so it's not a novel.
It's right, it's down and dirty.
Um, it's in areas like work andrelationships and organization

(07:51):
and emotional regulation.
Some of the big ones that reallyhit us with ADHD.
And so it's, you know, it's carddeck size, so you can carry it
in your bag, or you can keep itquiet.
You can you can do the tarotcard thing where you pull out
three those games, or you can bethis just happened at work.
Let's look through here.

(08:12):
Or you can pull one out and andjournal and talk to yourself,
like, hey, is this somethingthat I do well?
Is this something that I reallyneed to work on?
Is this something I just can'tdeal with right now?
So let's pull another card.
Um but it was so much fun, andit it's just really been an
exciting adventure.
And I've heard from people whoare using them in so many

(08:33):
different ways, um, even thoughI sort of made them for adults.
I have, you know, contacts ineducation, and one of them is a
school psychologist who workswith secondary students who's
like, I'm gonna start using thisbecause you know you can pull
them out.
Like, so this is what's going onin your life.
And how does this sound to you?

(08:53):
You know, is there anything youcould take out of this?

SPEAKER_00 (08:56):
Yeah, so it's like I'm I mean, I don't want to say
a quick fix, but it is somethinglike you can, like you're
saying, you pull and it can, Imean, like you said, it's down
and dirty.
We don't have to do a whole lotof processing, there's not a
whole lot of barriers you haveto overcome to to access that
tool, but it it sort of laysthings out that will be
happening.

SPEAKER_01 (09:14):
They're just little things, or you know, like if if
there's really something that'simpacting you, go look in that
section.

SPEAKER_00 (09:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So good.
And I love how you have itbroken down into different parts
of somebody's life too, thatthat they're they can grab from
that particular area to be ableto get that quick hack.
Yeah.
Love it.
What a what a fascinating,fantastic idea.
Such an easy tool.

SPEAKER_01 (09:37):
And I am actually thinking about making one for um
teens, free teens, you know,just changing.
Yes.
Please do.
Yeah.
You know, just enough of a of atweak of a different splendid.
Right, right, right, right,yeah.
For school, because they'relearning so much more.
They're probably, even ifthey've known for a long time

(09:57):
they have ADHD, chances are thepeople around them don't know
that much about it.
Um so then they're learningabout themselves.
And I think one of the things iskind of a tangent, but as I've
learned more about ADHD and I'velearned things, it's made
connections like, oh, that's whythis happened, or that's why I
do this.

SPEAKER_00 (10:15):
Right.
And yes.

SPEAKER_01 (10:16):
Then if you can, you can allow a little more kindness
in.
Okay.
Because you're not broken.

SPEAKER_00 (10:23):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Big difference.
Well, and with those youngeryounger generations too, like
there's a lot more of a parentalpiece to it, right?
And and even just, you know, I Ifind myself as a therapist
sometimes having to educate theparents on that because I might
see certain um, you know,indicators that maybe we need to
investigate that.

(10:43):
But a lot of times, kind of likegoing back to what you were
saying, parents might say, well,but sh, you know, he or she is
fine.
Like there's no behavioralissues, her grades are fine, his
grades are fine.

unknown (10:54):
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (10:54):
But there's other parts that I'm noticing in a
little bit more of an intimatesetting.
Um, so even that education pieceto to kind of broaden the
horizon of what ADHD actuallyis.

SPEAKER_01 (11:05):
And it can also be a really good talking point,
whether you're a teen or anadult with your with your boss
or your friends or your partneror whoever, like, you know, I
saw this card and it just wentwhoa.
Yeah.
And I'm having a hard timeexplaining this to you.
But this is something thathappened, and this is why, and
this is what I'm trying to do.

SPEAKER_00 (11:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Giving words, giving language tosomebody's experience so so
other people can have a betterunderstanding of that.
Yeah.
Oh, that's great.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, keep us posted becauseYeah.

SPEAKER_01 (11:36):
So that is and I started working on the teen and
then, you know, the ADHD.
But every time somebody saysyes, then I think I just do it.

unknown (11:51):
Just do it.

SPEAKER_00 (11:53):
Come on, just do it.
Yeah.
All right, Dr.
Jennifer.
Well, we want to get a get toknow you a little bit better.
So, what's your rant for today?
What do you have to rant ranttoday about?

SPEAKER_01 (12:04):
We kind of dove into this a little bit.
My rant is that I think that wejust need to be so much nicer to
ourselves.
I think we need to acceptwhether it's ADHD or your
listeners have have otherthings.
And you know, we can have manythings.
We can have a whole slew ofthings.
Um, and learn, be willing tolearn and have that honesty and

(12:26):
grace towards ourselves.
So that, you know, yes, I havean ADHD and I do this, and this
is part of me.
Um, and maybe I can work on it,but maybe you can accept it a
little bit better, and maybe wecan work on it.
And and going along with that,really figuring out what you
need, you know, what is it thatyou need and standing up for

(12:47):
yourself and advocating foryourself.
And you know, you've probablyhad you've had this your whole
life and you've told yourselfall kinds of stories about it
because you've heard otherthings, and maybe there's parts
of your life you need to changeor cut out, you know.
If somebody is just simply notable to be supportive, yeah,
that's on them, not on you.

(13:09):
And and just the more you canyou can learn and have grace
with yourself.
That that is what I want peopleto just know, and and not
changing it all at once.
So let's have grace, let's takea little tiny bit.
That's what the card deck isabout.
The other things I do, I'mreally starting to do is ADHD.
We want to buy a book and wewant to like fix it all

(13:31):
tomorrow.
Yes, or yesterday.
Right.
And that doesn't work for mostkids so far.
I have not seen anybody,including myself, that this has
worked for.
Yeah, yeah.
I really focus on, I reallythink the more little things.
Find something, find somethingand start there.
And celebrate it.
And then remember that littlenugget of of what you learned,

(13:53):
what you did well, how you'remaking progress.

SPEAKER_00 (13:56):
And like you said, we're not broken.
You know, you're not broken.
You are not a broken person tobe fixed.
There are things that you cando, kindness that you can extend
to yourself, shifts, and I don'twe'll talk about that, shifts
that you can make, um, just tobe able to adjust to how your
brain is operating.
It doesn't mean that it's wrong.

SPEAKER_01 (14:16):
I can come up with a hundred great ideas.
Yes.
They don't all have to happen.
And then also there's there'sthings just like everybody else
that I don't do as well or Idon't like.
And it's okay to ask somebodyelse, to hire somebody else to
not do it.
You know, we get into sometimesget into this, I have to do it
all, and I have to do it allperfectly.
And part of that's the maskingand wanting to present, and that

(14:37):
is exhausting and not good forour health, any kind of our
health.
Um, and so yeah.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (14:45):
So so what I hear you saying, yeah.
So what I hear you saying aroundthis rant, like to be kinder to
ourselves is we don't have to doeverything.
Right.
Be aware of the narratives,right?
Like what are the stories you'vebeen telling to yourself about
yourself, because you've hadADHD this whole time.
But I mean, there can be somepretty cruel uh messages that
we're internalizing if we don'tknow some of the worst are maybe

(15:08):
in here.
Yeah, so just being gentle,being kind, being graceful, um,
and don't do it all at once.
Like small, small bite-sizedchunks.
Yes, yes, yeah.
Yes.
And and check out Dr.
Jennifer's website.
She's got a lot of really greattools and that that are very
easy and tangible, and like,yeah, you can do this, you can

(15:31):
do this.

SPEAKER_01 (15:32):
And it may feel like, well, this is nothing, but
you know.
Do that one thing.

SPEAKER_00 (15:36):
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 (15:38):
Feel a little success.
Right.

SPEAKER_00 (15:39):
We feel better when we just do the one thing.
Yes, absolutely, absolutely.
Not such a good encouragement.
I mean, like you said, foranything, but specifically, you
know, today we're talking aboutADHD.
Um, and so yeah, just just try.
Just try the one thing.
See what happens.
Uh right.
Well, let's get into it.
I know we kind of have alreadyjumped in a little bit, but um,
yeah, so we are talking aboutADHD specifically later in life.

(16:03):
Um, and this has been, you know,as a therapist in practice, has
been an interesting sort oftrend and pattern that I've
started to notice in my clients,um, specifically women, um, more
in their 40s.
They may have, you know,full-time job, maybe a couple of
kids, you know, they've got alot of things going on, um, and

(16:24):
noticing that they're just notkeeping up like they once felt
like they could and did.
Um, and so, you know, justseeing in my clients their
exploration of this ADHDdiagnosis, which, you know, that
was one of the reasons Ipersonally thought that I needed
to explore it because I startedto see myself in some of these
things that my clients weresaying.
Then my youngest ended upgetting diagnosed with ADHD.

(16:46):
So I was like, okay, I reallyprobably need to look at this
within myself.
And so, you know, speaking tothe stories that we tell
ourselves, you know, I was agood student.
I didn't have behavior problems,but school felt really, really
hard for me.
Um, and, you know, being in my40s now and and feeling a little
bit more emotionally overwhelmedby some things, I did some

(17:08):
digging and investigating.
And turns out I do have ADHD andI've had it all along.
So this topic is very personalto me, but also again, just
seeing how in in my professionand the clients that I'm
serving, there's just not a lotof information about this in
this particular stage of ourlife.
And so that's really a focus,you know, that that you've sort

(17:30):
of honed in on is looking atthat later in life and and in
women.
So as adults, what are someindicators that we need to be
aware of?
Indicators or symptoms to beaware of that that might say
that might point to an ADHDdiagnosis.

SPEAKER_01 (17:46):
Well, well, some of it is, you know, emotional
regulation can be a big thingfor us.
You may have been told thatyou're too emotional.
Uh things may happen and it ithits you or hits you hard, and
other people don't don'tvalidate that.
And so this could be something.
And then when you think aboutit, like with a lot of these
things, if you really sit andget quiet and think about it,

(18:09):
it's been there all along, goingback.
Yeah.
Um managing things, the theorganization, the issues with
time, and it's not just, youknow, it's easy to say, oh,
people with ADHD are late, butit's it's not that, it's this
bizarre different feel abouttime.
Time hits us different, time isharder to manage.

(18:33):
Um, you know, all of those thosesorts of things, you know,
organization, task initiation.
One thing is you may find thatyou are really good at some
things, like interest-basedbeing uh for things that are
interest-based that that matchour interests, we can be all in
on.
Yeah.
And then there's other thingsthat we don't have interest in

(18:56):
that we cannot explain at alevel to which we are not
interested in.
And this thinking back, this maygo back to school.
There may have been a subject,and this may have been like, you
know, some of us had learned howto do school, right?
Yes.
We learned how to do that.

SPEAKER_00 (19:10):
That's exactly what I did.
Yes, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 (19:12):
And there were classes that I liked, and there
were subjects that I liked, andI could do them, and I could do
them at the last minute.
I could write essays at the lastminute and get A's.
Okay.
Okay.
But there were some subjects.
I it wasn't that I wasn't good.
Even math, I was good at it, butI didn't really care.
And so then people, teachers,parents, even friends may look
at this and like makeassumptions like, oh, you're

(19:35):
just being lazy here, you'rejust being difficult here.
Because you're so good here,you're so on it here.
Maybe at work you hold it alltogether.
Just like with our kids,sometimes like at school, they
hold it all together and theyget home and they fall apart,
right?
Because they don't know therules.
It's different.
So I would say looking at thingslike that, and what I've really

(19:56):
started talking about is there'sso much information out there.
Well, there's like quizzes.

unknown (20:01):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (20:01):
Information, we're still getting information.
Research flags, yes, you know,research, right, like quizzes or
podcasts or talking to people.
If you're hearing things aboutADHD and things are being
triggered in your brain, andyou're thinking, oh, oh, I would
start by looking at those sortsof things.
Why is this speaking to you?

(20:23):
Has this always been there?
And honestly, whether you haveADHD or not, is this something
that you want to kind of work onmaking life a little easier
around?
Like you said, we're not broken,you're not gonna fix it, but
there's there's strategies orways to make it a little bit
easier for you and to work withit better.
Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 (20:41):
Yeah, just be curious, right?

SPEAKER_01 (20:42):
When you hear some of these things.
Right.
So if I'm talking or anybody'stalking, because I still hear
things, you know, I still readthings, I still hear things, or
somebody says it in a slightlydifferent way.
You know, I say, um, we have ahard time with time and it
doesn't resonate, but somebodyelse says it in a different way,
and you're like, yes, that's it.
So so think about that, becausethat's a starting point.

(21:05):
Right.
Because what we talked aboutbefore, we can't, I know we want
to fix it all tonight.
I know we want to read the bookand you know, have the plan.
But where's that starting point?
So if you're thinking you mighthave ADHD, why are you thinking
that?
And start there.
Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 (21:21):
Well, okay, so it's funny that you just said that
because you mentioned theemotional regulation piece.
And I've never heard anybody sayit that way.
I've heard them say it like overstimulation, right?
And so when you say it likethat, and I think back to my
younger self, I I was I wasknown to throw some temper
tantrums.
And so when I think about it inthat context of emotional

(21:44):
dysregulation and not knowing, Imean, I was an ex I mean, I'm an
exploding emotional bomb on atany point.
And and it was just looked at asanger.
She has anger problems or shehas a hot temper.

SPEAKER_01 (21:58):
Right.
You're moody, you're emotional,you have anger issues.
Yes, not maybe.
Yes.
Think different and you actdifferent and you have ADHD.

SPEAKER_00 (22:09):
Right.
And so as an adult, I started touse that word overstimulated
because I could I connected withthat because it would just like,
you know, there were so manythings happening, and then I
would just like scream becauseit was just too much.
But when I think about it inthose terms that you just used,
that's been there all along.
And now it's like connecting itto that piece of because of the
ADHD brain that I have had allalong, just didn't know.

(22:32):
And so what did people connectto you?

SPEAKER_01 (22:34):
How did you feel about it?
How has that continued?
How does it show up now?
Yeah.
Some of us then were maskingeven harder, and we keep it in
more so that then when I do letit out, it's like way, it's like
over.
I'm just thinking aboutsomething laughing yesterday
with somebody.
Yeah, right, yeah.

(22:56):
You know, holding it, holding init, holding it in.
And whether the other personunderstands it all is what's
going on, which I was I waslucky.
This person was like, you know,you you do tend to be overly
sensitive, but that's part ofyou, and that's why this is
somebody I met recently later.
Yeah, who I think that's alsoeasier sometimes.
People like you meet later whodidn't know you didn't have this

(23:19):
whole history with you, like,oh, you've always been so
emotional, you're just you'rejust like that.

SPEAKER_00 (23:23):
And then that kind of um discards well, then it
becomes like your identity,right?
Like then I I mean, really, Ibecame the girl that had a hot
temper.
I mean, like that's how peopleknew me.
Just watch out, you know, shemight throw things, and that
that became my identity.

SPEAKER_01 (23:38):
But in reality, like temper or you're too emotional.
And then if you do go to adoctor and the doctor's not
thinking, then it's like here,take, I don't know, an
antidepressant and anti-anxiety,which isn't really the issue.
Right, right.
Right, right, for sure.
It's masking or covering a partof it, it's not helping you
learn strategies, it's nothelping you accept this.

(24:01):
Yeah.
So then you feel worse about it,perhaps, right?
Right, you know, it's a sure yousee this in clients.

SPEAKER_00 (24:07):
Oh, yeah, because maybe you've done the thing, but
it's not again, not fixing it.
And so, yeah, what is wrong withme?
There's still something wrongwith me.
And and it that's the thing Ioften hear like, what's wrong
with me?
Why can't I get this together?
Why can't I get my lifetogether?
Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that can be damaging.
So damaging.

SPEAKER_01 (24:26):
And if you're 40, 50 years old and that's the story
you've heard for the most part.
Yeah.
That's what's hard.

SPEAKER_00 (24:34):
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, what is it aboutdiagnosing in women?
Why do you think what are someof the reasons why you think
that gets that tends to getmissed?
Maybe it's in starts with whenthey're younger girls or maybe
women, I don't know.
What are what is yourperspective on that?

SPEAKER_01 (24:50):
My perspective is that first of all, there hasn't
traditionally been a lot ofresearch.
A lot of the research has beenon boys and men by boys and men
and has looked at at that.
And so, you know, when youconsider the lag time, you know,
you you know, you know, scienceis like they have to do the
research and they have to lookat it and publish it, and it has
to get disseminated.
So that's a really long time.

(25:10):
Right.
So the information hasn't beenthere.
Um, we've been misdiagnosed asanger issues, as defiant, as
depressed, as anxious, which youmay also be also be right.
Dealing with the ADHD can makeyou anxious and depressed and
tired and angry.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um so we're not from a medicalstandpoint looking at that, and

(25:32):
we tend to look at the medicalstandpoint, right?
So if you don't have people inyour life and you don't have
access to resources that arekind of encouraging you and
helping you dive in and findthings, it's just looked at
that.
And so, you know, if if you tryto express your feeling
overstimulated and you're shotdown as being too emotional, you
learn, especially girls, right?

(25:54):
Not all girls, but girls like inour age, like we've learned to
just you mask, you mask it upand you shove it in, and then
maybe you self-medicate or youdo other things that turn into
other riskier behaviors.
And again, I'm not saying thateverybody does this.

SPEAKER_00 (26:09):
Right, but but it can happen.
Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (26:11):
And then but then that's still looked at as
something else.
You know, you're you'retroubled, you're this or that,
not what's at the base of this,and maybe it has to do with the
executive dysfunction and thejust executive the emotional
dysregulation from the ADHD in asociety that wants you to be
like this, right?
And you're never really helpedand taught and given the space

(26:33):
to like, oh, but this is a goodpart of me.
This is good.
I can do this and it's good.
And yeah, I struggle with this.
And so it's okay to ask for helpalso.
It's okay to not do it, it'sokay to delegate it, it's okay
to pay for it if you can affordit, it's okay to ask, it's okay
to trade things, you know.
I think that the masking is iswhen we look at the last, it's

(26:56):
not just like today, it's likethe last what 40, 50 years of
our life.
Right.
What's been going on in ourculture, and it's this is this
is how you're supposed to be,and we we take that in, right?

SPEAKER_00 (27:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I think I think in inour society, I don't want to say
that men don't do it, becauseI'm sure there's a version of
that, but we're two ladiestalking.
Um so I know I know that thatmasking for men when men speak
for me.

SPEAKER_01 (27:26):
Right.
I mean, they don't a man canmuch more eloquently and
accurately speak to what it'slike for men.

SPEAKER_00 (27:33):
Right.
Right.
But we I mean, as ladies,especially uh, you know, within
the ADHD um diagnosis, that thatis something that happens.
And, you know, it makes mewonder if have we been forced
into that masking because for solong girls didn't have ADHD,
right?
This is the boys' thing.
Um and so you can't possiblyhave it.
So then it's got to be somethingelse.

(27:54):
And so you got to like pull ittogether.

SPEAKER_01 (27:56):
This isn't the right diagnosis for you.
You're defiant, you'redifficult, you're lazy,
especially, you know, I speakfor myself, like when you're
really good at one thing andthen you're not at another.
And unless it's like a learningdisability, okay.
We recognize you have alearning, you can't have a
reading disability or something.

SPEAKER_00 (28:12):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (28:12):
Yeah.
Like people don't know what todo with that.
So they take it poorly.

SPEAKER_00 (28:17):
Right, right, right.
Well, so can you speak a littlebit on, you know, I the thing
that I often hear from clients,and even when I think about
myself, is my coping strategiesworked to a point.
And then it got to be where Ithat emotional dysregulation was
becoming so difficult for me tomanage that I and again hearing

(28:40):
these different things, youknow, in my ears about
potentially an ADHD diagnosis,that I I investigated that a
little bit more.
So can you speak a little bit tolike coping skills that maybe
worked for us up to a point thatstopped, maybe stopped working
or stopped being as effective,and how that can kind of
encourage us to do some researchand investigating of our own

(29:03):
diagnosis?

SPEAKER_01 (29:05):
So I think some of those skills, those coping
strategies, especially for thoseof us who were able to fake it
and make it in school, um, isthat school went away.
Yeah.
Right.
Nothing else.
Or you kept going.
Hello at graduate school.
Graduate school again.
You know, those are thestructures that I understood
that I could nail.

(29:26):
And as I went through further,you know, when you're first in
high school and then when you'regetting your BA, like there's
still classes you don't want totake that you have to take.
But if you go on and you get tohigher levels, it's all on your
hyperfixation.
It's all on what you'reinterested in.
You're not going to get amaster's or a doctorate in
something you hate.
Exactly.
Yes.
Why would you do that?
Don't do that.
So I think we learn startingearly, partly how to be in that.

(29:52):
That becomes a huge um structurefor us.
And then that goes away.
And then you add in maybe a jobthat doesn't.
Work like that.
You add in relationships, youadd in kids, you add in our
changing world, yeah, and all ofthat.
And I think it becomes so much,and we get tired.

(30:13):
And we're starting to learn howhormones um impact some of this,
is which is why sometimes moregirls are being diagnosed when
they're starting to hit puberty,and that's where starting to
come in.
And you know, the research isstill out, we're still learning
so much, but when you startgoing to perimenopause,
menopause, what that's reallyabout, we we don't know.

(30:34):
We're trying to learn, but theydon't even know that much about
menopause anyway.
Right.
Let alone menopause.

SPEAKER_00 (30:39):
It's an ADHD, right, right, right.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (30:42):
So I think that just like in your therapist, so you
know, people who've been throughtrauma or abuse or other things,
they they find their strategiesthat get them through, and then
they stop working, right?
Because uh their lives havechanged, things have changed,
they're tired.
Um and so, and so some of thosestrategies they may have worked,

(31:04):
but maybe they didn't even workthat well.
So looking now at whatstrategies did you have?
Do they actually honestly work?
Do they still work?
What areas do you want to havestrategies in?
Because again, we can't fixeverything.
So so is it like the low-hangingfruit you really want to try to

(31:25):
work on this and strategies forthis, or is it something big
like this is really impactingyour relationship or your your
work, you know, your livelihood?
And you really need to figureout a better way to, you know,
manage time or manage youremotions, not fix them, but
understand and work with it andfigure out what you need, what

(31:45):
really works with you today,because that can change, right?
Right.
Um and I think at the base ofthat is also this acceptance of
yourself, which we can have areally hard time with.
And believe me, I still work onit.
It's it's not done.

SPEAKER_02 (31:57):
Right.

SPEAKER_01 (31:58):
It's I really need this right now.
This really works for me rightnow, and I believe that this is
okay.
So I'm gonna stand up formyself, which is something that
some of us have a hard timedoing.
I find that it's easier for meto stand up to something I've
been dealing with lately andthinking about is I stand up for
other people much easier than Istand up for myself, um, which

(32:18):
you may understand, or some ofyour clients totally understand.
Yes, yeah, yeah.
So I can very relatable all ofyou with ADHD, but then wait,
I'm supposed to do it for myselftoo.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (32:31):
No, okay, so that's that's really helpful.
And I want people to hear thattoo.
Like that piece of thingschange.
It like that's life, right?
Like things change.
So what once worked, or in thatparticular stage of your life,
maybe that worked in that time.
But if it doesn't work anymore,again, doesn't mean there's
something wrong with you.
It just means you've got tofigure out how to shift and
adjust.
Yeah.

(32:51):
And it's when we have thatinsight.

SPEAKER_01 (32:52):
Yeah.
You did have something thatworked.
Look, in the past this worked.
So do we just discard it?
Do we change it?
You know, maybe it didn't workas well as you thought.
You were just getting by.
Right.
But yeah, and things, thingschange based on what's going on
around you and your health.
Yes.
Just everything.
Right.
Right.

(33:13):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (33:13):
Well, and so even thinking about like myself in
school in high school, I I've,like you said, I figured out how
to do it.
It was a lot of memorization.
Like I don't really think Ilearned much.
Um, and then when I once I gotto to college and really in my
graduate program, even though itwas focused on what I was
interested in, any of those likemore scientific, you know, um uh

(33:34):
I don't know, like we weretalking about the brain, we're
talking about stats.
Yes, I struggled, reallystruggled.
Um and so I'll never forget whenI was talking to my doctor about
a potential ADHD diagnosis, likewe were talking about what
school looked like for me.
Um, and she was like, Well, whatabout work?
And I was like, Oh, I don't havea problem with work.
She was like, Oh, you got into ajob that works with your brain,

(33:56):
because I can remember anythinganybody tells me.
Like if we're in a conversation,it connects.
It connects.
And so that's how I'm able to bea therapist and not feel like
I'm missing things or I'm havingto memorize things.
Like, that's not what worked inmy brain.
And this is what works for menow, right?
But even thinking about whatyou're saying, there could be
changes, right?

(34:16):
That may change at some point inmy life, and that's okay.
Um, but I'll never forget thatshe said, like, you found a job
that works for you.
And so you don't feel that sortof um, you know, that hole um in
missing things or missinginformation or not being able to
keep up like I once.

SPEAKER_01 (34:34):
But if you were in a job that was all based on
reading something, yes, right,little more.
Absolutely.
Yes, and to be honest, that'sthat's kind of why I think
continuing an education helpedfor me is like especially
secondary, like there's bells,there's periods.
You eat lunch now, you run tothe bathroom now, right?

(34:56):
Now, and when I quit, inaddition to uh there there were
some other things going on, butlike all structure was right out
of the water, and that took alot of time.
Yeah, and so then a lot ofkindness and understanding,
because when you're used to whenyou spent most of your life
somehow in a in a system, a suresystem, being out of that system

(35:21):
can be and you look around, youthink everybody else knows what
they're doing, which they don'teither.
No, no, right, right, right.
You found a job that works foryou.
But if you were then or if somebig change happened and they
were like, no, this is how it'sgonna be, you might struggle.

SPEAKER_00 (35:37):
Absolutely, absolutely.
And so I think it's importantfor people to hear that, right?
Just because you're notstruggling now doesn't mean
there might be an there now maynot be a change, there may be a
change that shifts that.
But again, that's okay.
Like you you can do this, youjust have to know that
information and know where thatmight need to guide, guide your
decision making.
Yeah.

(35:57):
Okay.

SPEAKER_01 (35:58):
And even being a parent, you know, when they're
this age, this is what being aparent looks like.
And then this, and that and thenas they get older and it gets
wilder and crazier, and there'sless information, like they
leave.
Yeah.
That and when you've got theemotional dysregulation and
yeah, and all of that, and maybenot positive memories of your
whole situation, you know.

(36:20):
Yeah, that's it.
These are all things that kindof come down, which goes back to
the 40, 50-year-old woman who isthere's a lot of this.

SPEAKER_00 (36:27):
It's a lot of well, yeah, there's a lot.
There's a lot of moving piecesfor sure.
Yes.
Um, okay, well, let's talk aboutyour contact concept of ADHD
plus one, which I I like how youput that.
I don't know, it just makes itmake sense in my brain.
Um, so why would you say it'simportant for us to consider
other diagnoses along with ADHD?

SPEAKER_01 (36:48):
Because they all intermingle.
For me, um the plus one is islike some some grief.
I had some some trauma and somegrief.
My husband died in a traumaticway uh in the last few years.
I then um I got hit by a guy ona bike and ended up in the
trauma ward with um head injury.

(37:09):
And so looking at all of these,so it's this this lived
experience thing, which this I'mtwo steps ahead of you, and and
realizing that if the traits ofsay grief are this and the
traits of ADHD are this, or thetraits of, and they know there's
a lot of talk of autism in ADHD,you know, they're not they're
not separate, they're like Venndiagrams, and maybe you have

(37:31):
many Venn diagrams.
Sure.
So uh difficulty um organizingtime in ADHD looks like this,
and with grief, it can look likethis.
So it may not even matter whichis which.
It's sure what's right.
Figuring out what's helping you,and some of this has to do with
the grief, and some of this hasto do with the ADHD.

(37:53):
Um, you know, part of this cameabout in I found a really good
grief therapist, and she's greatat that, but she also I've been
teaching her a lot about ADHD.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, this understanding of,you know, she'd say things or we
talk about things and be like,okay, but that's not an ADHD
thing, that's just not gonnawork.
And so understanding I don'tknow if I'm being clear about

(38:16):
this, but the ADHD plus one islike you're bringing plus one to
a party.
Okay.
So yeah, you got ADHD, butprobably pretty much all of us
have at least some other plusone, if nothing else, it's
stress or yes, right, absolutelykind of thing.
Um, so yes, the ADHD and yes,the whatever the one or the two
other things are, and bringingthem together and seeing what's

(38:42):
the same, what's a variation,what's totally different, but
you still need to deal with bothof them.
Right.
So you can't just like it's notjust ADHD.
It's not just that you need toeat more protein if you're
right.
Right, right.
Like you said, there's manymoving pieces and really
acknowledging that and you know,going into talking about ADHD,

(39:03):
first of all, from the livedexperience and also from the
understanding that, you know, Ihave a couple plus ones, and you
may have plus ones that I mightnot understand, but I understand
that it's there.

SPEAKER_00 (39:12):
Yeah, right, right.
Well, because if if you have anADHD diagnosis and a plus one,
kind of like what you weresaying in your grief therapy,
like she may be telling you todo certain things, and and maybe
that works for grief, but that'snot gonna work for the ADHD.
Or maybe that's gonna work forthe ADHD, but not necessarily
the grief.
And so when we have a fullerpicture of what is going on for

(39:34):
you emotionally andphysiologically, then you're
gonna have more tools, right?
And that's what we want.
We want people to have moretools and more understanding of
how to use those tools.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (39:45):
Yeah.
So sometimes in being intherapy, maybe telling someone
strongly encouraging them tojust do something because they
maybe you think they need thatpush.
Right.
With ADHD, sometimes that justdo something, I'm pushing back.
You know, right.

SPEAKER_00 (40:01):
Well, and I think that's a good point.
Because like depression, right?
If somebody's lack that la hasfatigue or low motivation or
whatever, we may just be like,okay, well, let's just come up
with one goal or let's come upwith a list of things.
If they also have ADHD withthat, that might be really
overwhelming.
And now we've got something elseto deal with.
Like, how do we prioritizethose?
Right.
Right.
Great.
I have a list of 10 things.

(40:22):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (40:22):
I'm not doing none of them.

SPEAKER_00 (40:23):
I'm not doing any of them.
Yes.
Yes.
Well, and even to hear even tolike think about, you know,
therapists to be able to assessthat, you know, like to kind of
suss out these different mentalhealth diagnoses along with
ADHD.
Because again, you could, I hateto say it, but you could be
doing some damage, right?
If you're not factoring that in.

SPEAKER_01 (40:45):
Yeah.
Yeah.
At a time when whatever is themost prominent, if ADHD is the
most prominent, if the grief, ifthe depression is the most
prominent.
Um, and you're not allowing forthat space that we need to take
this into a little bit moreconsideration to get it more
into homeostasis.
You know, to, okay, right, rightnow the grief is really, really

(41:07):
hitting you.
Right or the ADHD is reallyhitting you.

SPEAKER_02 (41:10):
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 (41:11):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And it can help you to know whatto, like you're saying, focus on
and be able to address that.
And but also, I mean, I think weall need to remember that there,
the other things also contributeto it, right?
And so knowing that along withwhatever it is that you're
doing.

SPEAKER_01 (41:29):
That thought just came to me, like, like when
you're sick, you know, likesometimes they like there's
medicines you can get that haveeverything they have on it.
Right.
Decongestant and and a hist,like I have everything.
And if you're taking somethingfor everything, but maybe you
need to just be takingindividual medications.
Right.
Right.
You just want my mind's notworking, but like you just want

(41:49):
a decongestant or anexpectorant.
You don't want like some ofthose like have everything in
the world.
Right.
And then you're just like, hopewe're medicated.
And you're not dealing with,okay, right now the cough is the
worst.
Right.
So we can't do anything elseuntil we get the cough under
control so you can sleep, so youcan get healthy.
So these other things canhappen.

SPEAKER_00 (42:08):
Yes, yeah.
Well, and I also think that'sgood for people to hear if
they're going into therapy orthey're going into their doctor
for diagnosis or or whatever, tokind of just again be curious.
Where are you finding thebiggest obstacles?
Like, where are you finding thebiggest biggest struggles for
yourself so that you can knowwhat's most important to address
first?

SPEAKER_01 (42:28):
Why are you here?
Why are you what made youactually finally pick up the
phone and make the phone call?
Right.
Um, because ADHD, depression,whatever they're huge terms.
It could be so many things.

SPEAKER_00 (42:39):
And you like, like you said, uh so many overlapping
parts of that.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
And then it's the professional'sjob to figure out, right, based
on the symptoms that you'retalking about.
I also know that theprofessionals don't get a lot of
training in it.

SPEAKER_01 (42:53):
And you're also overwhelmed and tired and all
that.

SPEAKER_00 (42:58):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So true.
So true.
So, so I mean, what you're alsosaying without saying is you
need to agate for yourself.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.

SPEAKER_01 (43:06):
And you need to know yourself.
And you know, I was I was luckythat I have all this education.
But even with all of that, ittook me a really long time.
Right.
To like listen to myself.

SPEAKER_00 (43:17):
Yeah.
You know.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (43:18):
Yeah.
Because people would say, oh no,you can't, you can't, you can't
possibly.
You have a master's, you have adoctor.
You like you do all thesethings.
Look at you.
You look like you're puttogether.
Except for those times whenyou're falling apart and you're
overly emotional.
And yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (43:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
But it couldn't be, it couldn'tbe ADHD, right?
No, no.
You're just difficult sometimes.
Oh man.
Okay.
So we talked about your carddeck.
Um, can you share a little bitof some like some easy hacks
that that people might, youknow, kind of be able to hear
today?

(43:51):
And and and let's talk to, andthis so this may be a little bit
of a two-parter, about thesubtle shift that you talk
about.
Um, you know, along with thosehacks and and kind of introduce
listeners to this concept of theshut subtle shift.

SPEAKER_01 (44:04):
So the subtle told I have to slow down when I say
this.
The subtle shift kind of goesalong with those ideas of just
hacks, small steps, um, littlemicro things.
So if we try to go in and I'mgoing to do everything to change

(44:24):
my organization policy, right?
Like I don't know about you,like I'm gonna go through my
clothes.
And I know there are thosesystems that talk about pulling
everything out of your closetand going through it piece by
piece.
What I can tell you is thateverything's going to be on my
floor for the next three monthsbecause I'm gonna start it and
get distracted and overwhelmed,so that and I don't want to do

(44:45):
it anymore.

SPEAKER_00 (44:46):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (44:47):
So that's not gonna help.
Okay, now I have lost my train alot.

SPEAKER_00 (44:52):
Subtle shift.

SPEAKER_01 (44:53):
Welcome to ADHD.

SPEAKER_00 (44:54):
Yeah, hey, we're in this together.

SPEAKER_01 (44:58):
Okay, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 (45:00):
I have the paper.
That's what's helping me.

SPEAKER_01 (45:04):
So making just little tiny changes, like I
talked about it.
Is it a low-hanging fruit?
Is it something that's reallyseriously impacting your life
that you need to start changing?
But even if it's at work or yourrelationship, you can't change
at all.
You you something really subtle,something small where you feel
like you can handle this, it'seasier.
And then you can feel somesuccess.

(45:25):
You can see, okay, I did thisand it worked, or I did this and
it didn't work, so we trysomething else.
Because that's another kind ofidea I've been playing with is
experiments, terming coachingthings as experiments so it
doesn't feel so heavy.
So the subtle shift is findinglittle things that work now to
move me a little bit forward inthis one area.

(45:47):
Okay.
Okay.
And if it's um looking at uhlooking more at yourself, a lot
of times it has to do with someof the basic questions.
Do I need to eat?
Do I need to drink water?
Do I need to go outside and movemy body?
Do I need to rest?
And those sound really overlysimple at times.

(46:08):
But uh you may find that inparticular one of them really
helps.
Maybe having certain snacks,maybe um taking kind of like
these meditative naps I've beendoing, where um I realize that
in the afternoon, because thisis part of me learning how not
to be in a certain structurefrom a system.
Yeah.
Um it's okay sometimes to justgo.

(46:30):
I just go lay down somewhere andI listen to like some sort of
either meditative music orsomething like that.
I set a timer so I'm not out onthe couch all day.
And sometimes I sleep andsometimes I read, and sometimes
I actually just check out, youknow, whether it's a guided
meditation that's actuallyguiding me in meditation, or

(46:51):
it's just one one of some likesome soft music without words or
nature music or whatever.
Um, really allowing that time toregroup, refresh.
So that's just like a littlesubtle thing.
And then I've learned thatsometimes I'm able to do that
for a much shorter period when Ireally need, like you talked
about, being overstimulated.

(47:12):
So I've had a busy day, I'm outwith a lot of people, being able
to take that little vacation,that little rest in your brain
to reset because we can getvery, very overstimulated.

SPEAKER_00 (47:25):
Yeah.
And so even just noticingdifferent cues that may tell us
we need to have a small shift.
Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 (47:35):
That's good and so what works for you and what
works for your friend orsomebody else may not work for
you, or it may not work for youright now, or in this
environment, or this setting, orwhatever.

SPEAKER_00 (47:46):
Yeah, yeah.
So just paying attention toyourself, paying attention and
just small things.

SPEAKER_01 (47:51):
Um, because I can make lists till the end of time.
Like if you've ever seen thosethings, like making a list is a
whole other hobby.
No, it's like I have this is theone I found.
It's uh it's one line a day.
It's a five year, I guess you'resupposed to like maybe put a
meditation or whatever.

(48:12):
But um I find it useful when Iremember to use it to write down
what I've done, especially likein the work situation.
Okay, yeah, I did a podcast, Ihad a call with this person.
Right.
Because at the end of the day,otherwise, I feel like I know
I've done something, but like Ican't remember what I've done.
Right.
And I feel like I haven't doneanything.
And so then I can pick this upand be like, oh, okay, I did

(48:37):
these things.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so this for me has beenhelpful.
I don't do it every day.
I forget or I don't have it orsure, sure.
Yeah.
But you know, especially whereit's like, yeah, I worked on
this and I worked, I did do, Idid do something.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (48:51):
So instead of making a list of to-dos, it's this is
what I have done.
But sure, but this is anintentional practice of
reminding yourself of what youdid do.

SPEAKER_01 (49:00):
Yeah, I was on the podcast with Candace.
Okay.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (49:03):
I did this.
Right.
You know, that's I love that.
That's really cool.
I did something.
Mm-hmm.

unknown (49:09):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (49:10):
Okay.
Super tangible shift.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Okay.
Um, if someone's listening andthey're resonating with some
things that we're talking about,a lot of things that we're
talking about, what would yourencouragement be?
And what would you say theirfirst step would be?
Like how what what first stepwould you recommend?

SPEAKER_01 (49:29):
My first step is if you're listening and something
is resonating you, whether it'sa, I don't know, how you process
a journal, a walk, callingsomebody up, what is it that
resonated with you?
What did we just talk about thatjust set like light vulture
fireworks off in your brain?
Um, and then spend some realtime thinking about were these

(49:52):
positive reactions, were thesenegative, were they both?
It was probably both.
The more you think about it, areyou like, I remember in fifth
grade, I I remember at home.
I like what because you're gonnafind probably that all of a
sudden all these little blocksare gonna start falling in
place, or however you visuallywant to look at it.

SPEAKER_00 (50:10):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (50:10):
Um and starting there, and what is this telling
you?
And and and does this helpingyou understand things?
And then is whatever we'retalking about, is this this
could be something that you feellike you got under control?
Great.
Sure.
Congratulate yourself.
That's perfect.
Yeah, yeah.
Um but what are the other areas?
Not trying to take, you know,take you can take one of those

(50:31):
online tests, but if you scoreon a bunch of them, you're not
gonna fix them all right now.
So so what is resonating withyou and doing some real thinking
about it and what you've done,what helps?
Um and then you know, I offershort fixes.
Uh quick win coaching, really,really working on let's just do

(50:57):
the one thing, just figure thisone thing out.
So the card deck, some of thestuff that offer, some of the
stuff that I'm working on isreally let's let's figure out
the one thing.

SPEAKER_00 (51:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay, I love that.
What would you say are like oneor two things if somebody has an
ADHD diagnosis that they shoulddo to take care of themselves
well?

SPEAKER_01 (51:23):
I I I would say learning how to check in with
yourself.
Okay, it can be hard.
It can be something we don'tknow how to do or we don't have
permission to do.
But but but taking care ofyourself has to be what you
need.
So back to like those basicneeds, right?
Basic needs.

(51:43):
Um what's really really heavy onyou right now and what's one of
the little things you could doabout it.

SPEAKER_00 (51:53):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (51:54):
Or ask for help about it.
Because you don't have to haveall I mean, somewhere inside
you, you probably have all theanswers, but maybe you need help
accessing them, you know,figuring out what they are.

SPEAKER_00 (52:02):
That's good.

SPEAKER_01 (52:03):
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (52:04):
So how would somebody check in with
themselves?

SPEAKER_01 (52:07):
What would you recommend?
Well, so you can if you're ifyou're someone who likes to
meditate or do breathingexercises, just finding a quiet
place and breathing into it andletting yourself be.
If you like to journal or write,you could you could do that.
You could ask yourself somequestions.
What is bothering me?
You know, there's the thingswhere you keep asking why five

(52:28):
times.
Yeah.
Or what now?
Um, maybe talking to somebody,maybe there's somebody you trust
who either is new to you andcomes from a clean slate or
somebody who's been around whoyou trust who could be able to
say, yeah, I know what you'retalking about.
Right, right.
Talking to somebody.
Um finding your way, how do youaccess yourself?

(52:51):
And if it's something you're notused to doing, this this can
take some time and this can takesome practice.
Right.
Maybe it is a therapist, maybeit is a coach, maybe it is a
bunch of things.
Yeah.
Maybe it's reading a book, maybeit is going and getting
something or listening to apodcast or some information
specifically about it just toget more information for you for

(53:13):
right now.
So you kind of see the biggerpicture.

SPEAKER_00 (53:16):
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Just take, I mean, yeah, kind ofgive yourself space to explain
for that.
Yeah, yeah.
Especially like you said,especially if you've never
really done that before.
And so really slowing down soyou can notice some of these
patterns and track some of thesedifficulties.
Yeah, yeah.
And it doesn't have to be anhour of meditating.

SPEAKER_01 (53:33):
Maybe it's just I'm gonna get a glass of water or
coffee or whatever.
Right.
And I'm just gonna sit outside,I'm gonna set a timer for five
minutes, and I'm just for fiveminutes, I'm just gonna see what
comes up.
Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 (53:43):
No, that's really good.
Well, so you mentioned doingsort of your meditative um
practice.
Is there anything else that youdo to take care of yourself
personally?

SPEAKER_01 (53:53):
Um I'm working on some basic parameters for my
life.
So, number one is I'm learningand I'm working on setting up my
work time, looking at um asprint, what I call a sprint.
So instead of having a projectand it's this big project and

(54:14):
this uh, you know, vaguewhatever, like my sprint this
week, my three days, what is thething that I'm working on?
And getting better at realizingI can do this amount and then on
a time I have.
And it's not this list of 25things, it's right, I'm working
on this and these three thingson this.
And that's one.
Yeah.

(54:34):
The other thing is like Imentioned when I taught, I was
told when to eat.
And so eating, especially withADHD, you can get into this,
like, I don't know what to eat.
Like, you forget.
So I'm working on it, and I'mnot a nutritionist, so some
nutritionists may get mad.
But this idea of I'm I'm tryingto get myself to if nothing
else, eat three meals a day.

SPEAKER_00 (54:56):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (54:56):
And the meals have to have like a protein, a carb,
and a fat and a fruit orvegetable.
Like not into this whole bitthing, like can we just eat
three meals a day?
Right.
And anything else I eat,whatever.
But if I don't remember to eat,like I haven't eaten breakfast
yet because I didn't, and it'salmost 10 o'clock my time.

(55:17):
Like it spirals through the day.
Because that's basic needs.
Yeah.
The day that I do this, I feelit and I notice it.
Yeah.
And the weeks that I do that, Ifeel it and I notice it.

SPEAKER_00 (55:31):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
And so just starting simple.
Like I know I need three mealsand I need to look like this.

SPEAKER_01 (55:38):
And yeah, three meals, or just one.
Just is it right?
What do you feel is the mostimportant in your every oh
breakfast is the most importanttoday?
But maybe it's not for you.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Something else.

SPEAKER_00 (55:50):
So just okay, just one meal.
Right.
Yeah.
Okay.
That's really good.
I think that's really good thatpeople are hearing that.
Because I I mean, kind of goingback to what you said, I think
it's easy for people to minimizehow important those things are,
but they have a big impact onus, especially over time.
Um yeah.
Yeah.
Especially if, like you said, ifyou've been in a structure where

(56:11):
it made sense when to eat andhow to eat and all the things,
if you don't have that anymore,it's harder to, it feels
overwhelming to know how toimplement it.

SPEAKER_01 (56:19):
Yeah.

unknown (56:19):
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (56:20):
And my husband, he always cut up the vegetables and
the fruit for our lunches.
Right.
Who's doing it?

SPEAKER_00 (56:26):
I don't know.
Yeah.
Right, right.
So it's harder to access that.

SPEAKER_01 (56:30):
Uh-huh.
Yeah.
And so for people who this isn'ta problem, they're like, what's
your problem?

SPEAKER_00 (56:35):
Well, yeah.
Well, you have other problems,thank you.
This is my my my struggle rightnow.
Your struggles are different.
Yeah.
There you go.
There's a rant.
There's another rant in there, Ithink.

unknown (56:50):
No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 (56:51):
We're keeping it nice.
We're keeping it in supposedway.

SPEAKER_00 (56:56):
Oh my gosh.
Well, thank you so much.
Um, people are just gonna lovethis conversation.
I know there's a lot of peoplethat uh will just eat this up.
I think it's good encouragingand helpful.
And again, like you're justyou're breaking it down to make
it tangible and and things thatpeople can easily implement.
Like you said, the hacks.
Um, so how can we find you ifsomebody's interested in even

(57:18):
working with you?
Like, how can they do that?
In what capacity can they dothat?

SPEAKER_01 (57:22):
Um on Instagram, adhd.holistically, um, go to my
website, adhdholistically.com,um, and sign up and um you'll
get some 30 quick and easy hacksfor free and some information
about the quick win coaching.
It also has the informationabout the card deck and some of
the places I'm starting to go.
I'm trying to get out in thecommunity a little bit more and

(57:43):
do things.
Um then as I put more things outthere and just newsletters and
blogs and just little bits ofinformation, and then there's
also a way of like if if there'ssomething that I can help design
for you or for your business orfor for whatever.
I mean, I'm ADHD.
I'm I'm open to anything.

SPEAKER_00 (58:02):
Yeah.
That's right.

SPEAKER_01 (58:04):
That's right.
Love it, love it.
And then wait for me to make thecard deck for the teens.

SPEAKER_00 (58:09):
Yes, yeah, yeah.
So get over on the website, geton Instagram, you can follow her
there.
Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 (58:14):
Um, and yeah, I mean, I I think I think get on
my mailing list is the best wayjust to an Instagram to find out
everything that I'm doing.

SPEAKER_00 (58:21):
Absolutely.
And I I just love that, I mean,you're living this life out,
right?
Like you, you know, which Ithink can be really helpful.
Like you get it, you totally getit.
And so um I think that I thinkthat, I mean, again, it just
helps us to feel less alone whenwe're going through something
like this, or when we're sort ofkind of grasping at what is

(58:43):
going on with me to hearsomebody like yourself that you
know, you didn't get diagnoseduntil later in life as well.
And this is something you'vebeen working with forever.
So it happens, it happens,people, and that's okay.
Um, so yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Well, thank you.
Thank you so much for yeah,coming on, and I'm so excited to
know you and follow you, followalong with you, and I'm glad we

(59:03):
have this resource now.

SPEAKER_01 (59:05):
Thank you so much.
This has been great.

SPEAKER_00 (59:07):
Yeah.
Did you catch my aha moment inthere?
Y'all, I literally realizedright in the middle of this
conversation that what I've beencalling anger issues for years
was actually ADHD all along.
Humans are so complex.
What looks like one thing on thesurface can often be something
entirely different underneath.

(59:27):
That's why it's so important tostay curious, to be open, to
exploring what's really goingon, to advocate for yourself,
and to seek out professionalswho can help guide that journey.
And remember, life changes.
Strategies that may have workedfor you five years ago, or even
last month, might not serve younow.
That doesn't mean you'refailing.

(59:49):
It just means it's time togently shift, to adjust, to
experiment with new tools, andthat can be transformational.
Be sure to check out the shownotes where you'll find links to
Dr.
Jennifer's.
Website and the amazing SOS ADHDcard deck.
You can also sign up for hermailing list and grab her
resource 30 quick and easy hacksfor ADHD.

(01:00:09):
Trust me, you do not want tomiss that.
And again, let's just becurious.
Let's notice what's serving usand what's not serving us well
in these areas, and be willingto be flexible and kind to
yourself in the process.

(01:00:31):
The information included in thispodcast does not replace that of
your own professional therapy.
If you believe you're in need ofprofessional assistance, please
reach out to the medicalcommunity in your area.
The Couch Next Door with CandaceFraser was created by me,
Candace Fraser, graphics byJason Frasier, music by Josh
Bissell.

(01:00:52):
You can find the show notes andaffiliate links on
CandaceFrasierLPC.com.
Click on the tab Podcast andyou'll find all podcast-related
content there.
I'd love to connect with you onInstagram.
Find me at Candace Fraser LPC.
Give the show a rating or reviewwherever you listen to podcasts.
This really helps get the showto more listeners in the world,

(01:01:14):
and I would be so grateful tosee what you all are loving.
Until next time, show kindnessto yourself and those around
you.

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