Ep:14 Bonus Episode: Are courses for a Chief of Staff Role really worth it? with Annie Croner

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Learning & Development for a Chief of Staff Role

Join us in another bonus episode where we join forces to answer our listener question with the amazing Annie Croner, CEO & Founder of Whole Assistant and EA Trainer & Coach. 
Annie hosts the Whole Assistant Podcast among many other valuable offerings to the administrative profession.  Connect with Annie on LinkedIn HERE and read more about her on our website HERE   

In this episode,  we answer our listener question on the hot topic of inching towards that Chief of Staff role. You will discover that certifications can be more than just a decorative line on your resume/CV,  they’re stepping stones for personal and professional growth.

Listener question
Hi CRODIE: I want to shoot for a CoS position from an EA position of 12 years experience. There are a lot of options out there for L&D courses for CoS - are any of these worthwhile? Is there just 1 that really packs a punch? Do they matter? Do they count? Will they help me get a foot in the door? Please help

Craig, Jodie and Annie share thoughts and discuss insights on levelling up your career, whether you're aiming for a Chief of Staff role or want to become a more strategic business partner. Get ready to be empowered and love your role!
 
Annie also breaks down the key ingredients for executive assistants to seamlessly transition into strategic roles, highlighting the value of internal projects and the impact of social proof on your career path.


Value Bombs

"Do they count? Do chief of staff certifications count? Yes, but only in terms of your professional development. I don't think a chief of staff qualification is going to get you a role." - Annie Croner

"I love this role and I have a passion for it. You want to have that drive and that passion to be able to retain that information." - Craig Bryson

"Education is key, personal development, professional development is key. There is not going to be a magic pill for this chief of staff role." - Jodie Mears

Check out The Whole Assistant Podcast HERE for more information and inspiration! 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This episode was brought to you by Autograph
Events, our sponsor.
Welcome to the Quotey Filesbonus episodes and our first
lineup is Annie Kroner.
Thank you, Annie, for joiningus.

(00:21):
We're so excited to be able toshare the knowledge on this
YouTube channel so great.
Thank you for joining us.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Yeah, thank you, annie.
Please do tell us all aboutyourself, what it is you're
currently doing and how youalign with the assistant
community.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
Thank you guys so much for having me.
I love collaborations like thisand we're going to go into that
in another avenue at some point.
But my name is Annie Kroner, asJodi and Craig just said, and I
am an executive assistant coach.
So I help executive assistantsunlock their badassery and
really level up and become morestrategic business partners.

(00:58):
So I do this through coaching.
I run a group program.
I have one-on-one clients aswell.
Then I also do this throughtraining and then via my podcast
.
So Croaty Files I'm a big fanof.
My podcast is called the WholeAssistant Podcast, so please
check it out wherever you listen.
And so that's a bit about me.

(01:19):
I am a career executiveassistant over 20 years in the
industry.
I had this crazy opportunity togo into business full-time for
myself a year ago.
I did not see myself actuallygoing down that path, but here
we are, so I'm loving it.
I'm loving empoweringassistants.
I'm loving helping assistantsum really come into their power

(01:41):
at and into their roles fullyand um to love their roles as
well excellent.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
That's really interesting that you you've
you've just landed in thisposition just a year ago and how
quickly things can progressthrough the power of networking,
collaboration and and here weare.
Yeah, so we have as you know,we have the crodi files has an
initiative to get the listenersinvolved and we call that hi

(02:09):
crodi.
So it's a little bit like a um,a chat show agony aunt.
At the pa show recently we weredescribed as the doctor's
surgery for executive assistants, which I love that um.
So we have had literallythousands of different questions
phrased in different ways, butgenerally they're kind of

(02:31):
grouped into topics.
So we invited you, annie, tocome on and chat through one of
our listener questions, and thisis a real hot topic still at
the moment.
It's been going around formaybe a year and we're just
wondering if you can help usunpack this question with your
expertise and insights.

(02:54):
So here's the question from alistener anonymous, hi crodi.
I want to shoot for a chief ofstaff position from an e
position of 12 years experience.
There are a lot of options outthere for learning and
development courses for chief ofstaff.
Are any of these worthwhile?
Is there just one that reallypacks a punch?

(03:17):
Do they matter?
Do they count?
Will they help me get a foot inthe door?
Please help Annie.
What do you think?

Speaker 3 (03:27):
So I actually get this question in terms of
different iterations, in termsof different certifications out
there for executive assistants,and now there's this whole other
realm of chief of staff thatwe're adding into that.
Of course, there are chief ofstaff development programs and
things like that, and there area couple I would recommend
development programs and thingslike that, and there are a
couple I would recommend.
However, my question back wouldbe what is the purpose of

(03:50):
taking a chief of staff course,of taking a chief of staff
certification, anything likethat?
So my philosophy I'll just giveyou my general philosophy on
certifications in general, andthen we can like dive into the
chief of staff role, because wecould really unpack this.
This could be a very longepisode, but I know we're

(04:11):
wanting to keep it brief.
So, with any certification, I'ma big fan of certification as
long as you're looking at it asa learning and development
opportunity for growth, your ownpersonal growth.
Now, this goes for coachingcertifications as well.
I'm a certified life coach, andso I will say that it's

(04:32):
completely possible to be aneffective coach without any
coaching certification 100%possible and so I think the same
is true for executiveassistants in their roles and
chiefs of staff in their role aswell.
You do not need anycertification in order to be an
effective chief of staff.
Nor do you need a certificationin order to be an executive

(04:52):
assistant.
There are instances wherecertification can help.
Project management is one ofthose.
So if you want to move from anEA position to a project
management position and the PMPcertification is required for
the role that you're applyingfor, that is one very specific
instance where having acertification is helpful,

(05:13):
because it's actually arequirement of that job posting.
Now, even there, most projectmanagement roles do not require
certification.
So if you're hanging your haton getting a job and you're
hanging your hat on thecertification helping you land a
job, I would say that's not themotivation that I would support

(05:34):
in certification.
The motivation, in my mind,should always be linked back to
your personal growth and whetheror not you want to, to your
personal growth and whether ornot you want to unpack or

(05:55):
discover something about theposition or figure out where
your skill set may be lacking soyou can fill in some gaps, that
sort of thing.
So do they count?
Do, do.
Do chief of staffcertifications count?
Yes, but only in terms of yourprofessional development.
I don't think a chief of staffqualification is going to get
you a role no, and it'simportant to yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:11):
It's important to just pause there and reflect on
the process, because we talkabout adding value and
showcasing your skills.
If you're shooting for thatposition as an EA and you've had
12 years experience, myquestion would also be along the
lines of you know, what do youwant out of it in terms of are

(06:33):
you just shooting for the chiefof staff role because you want
personal growth and you justwant to get from you know A to Z
quickly?
Or what steps have you put inplace to get you in the door
without those certifications?
So what social proof?
What internal proof?
What projects have you been onrecently internally, maybe in

(06:55):
your organisation, if it's aninternal promotion, or what
value can you showcase?
Maybe at the interview stage tosay I don't have a
certification, but here are theexamples of the projects that
I've been able to deliver thathave turned x around for the
organization and put in theactual meat on the bones, as it

(07:19):
were, to your skill set and howthat translates to your
experience to then be qualifiedto apply for that chief of staff
role.
I think we're moving away,particularly in the UK.
I'm seeing a lot more job adsremoving that need for
university degree educated.

(07:42):
It's not necessary.
And if you have worked on yourlike we've just learned recently
, craig, your personal branding,you know what value are you
bringing to the role, how do youshow up, how do you speak up,
how do you lead?
Are you an executive assistant?
Or are you at the other end,where you've moved through that
and you're into the strategicexecutive assistant, going into

(08:07):
a more high level role positionand leading internal projects?
Because ultimately, that's whatyou're going to be doing in a
chief of staff role is reallymanaging the internal business
goals, liaising directly withthe chief, the ceo, the direct

(08:27):
c-suite, so there might be astep in between.
I'm thinking with this what doyou think, craig?

Speaker 1 (08:33):
yeah, I think so too, and I also find that you have
to have the passion for the role.
I mean, people sometimes justwant to get in and get out and
get their paycheck, but I lovethis role and I have a passion
for it.
So, going for those educationand your courses that you're
going, you want to have thatdrive and that passion to be
able to retain that information.

(08:54):
If you're just going to do it,just because you want it on your
CV and you just want the, youknow the letters behind your
name, I think it's it's going tobe difficult.
What do you think, annie?

Speaker 3 (09:05):
I definitely think that's true.
I think that doing things forvanity, like out of vanity, you
know it kind of like a vanitymetric, having that COS behind
our, those initials behind ourname.
And I was a very high levelexecutive assistant in my last
position, to the point where Iwas operating as a chief of
staff but my title was executiveassistant.
In my last position, to thepoint where I was operating as a
chief of staff but my title wasexecutive assistant, because we

(09:28):
were a small organization and Iwas supporting one high-level
executive, my managing partner,and the other managing partners
also had support staff, but theyworked differently with their
executives, right?
So executive assistant madesense for the organization.
Now I was doing the work of achief of staff, 100% for sure.
I was like running this guy'sentire world.

(09:50):
So I think you really have tobreak it down, like, are you
going after chief of staff forthe title or do you actually
want to sink your teeth intothose higher level projects?
Do you actually want to do thework and does the title matter
to you?
And look, I'm all about usgetting recognition, I'm all

(10:11):
about us having a title thatsuits our role, but at the end
of the day I'd be more concernedabout job fulfillment than I
would about it.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
So where are we going to point this person then?
So I think, generally, whatwe're saying is education is key
, personal development,professional development is key,
but there is not going to be amagic pill for this chief of
staff role, particularly when itmeans different things in
different organisations, acrossdifferent sectors, across

(10:42):
different countries.
It can mean I would look moreinto the job description of that
COS position.
Does it sound like the nextnatural step for you compared to
what you're currently doing?
Does it seem way off?
If it is way off, great.
So what are the steps you needto put in place the next couple

(11:05):
of years to get there?
But there isn't.
I wouldn't recommend one singlelearning and development course.
I would recommend that whateveryou choose to seek out and pay
for it encompasses many things,you know commercial awareness,

(11:26):
project management, what else?
Financial awareness, all thosethings that matter with it.
Having a great business acumenin general, being able to lead,
being able to communicateeffectively, being able to
deliver your projects on timeand being prepared I guess the
main thing to step away from thetraditional EA responsibilities

(11:50):
.
I don't know how Craig wouldfeel about not booking a
restaurant ever again.
I love doing that.

Speaker 1 (11:58):
I like doing that as well, but I think it also comes
with experience.
I think the longer you're inthe position, the more reaction
you are with being a chief ofstaff with the EAs.
You know what they are goingthrough, what the trials and
tribulations they are goingthrough, because you were there
and you grew from that into theposition that you're in.

(12:19):
So, yeah, I would like to be achief of staff, but I do like
being an EA, and so somethingneeds to drive me to be able to
want to step to that next level.
But at the moment I'm happywhere I am.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
Yeah, yeah, and it is a.
It is kind of a mindset shifttoo, like if you're so used to
being in the weeds and doing allthe tactical to do's and all of
that like it's going to be ahuge mindset shift to show up
more strategically Like I walkmy clients through this all the
time in their executiveassistant roles, let alone COS,

(12:57):
you know.
So that's, that's a realchallenge too.
So then, who do you have tobecome in order to be a COS as
well?
Like, what are you going tohave to let go of?
And then, what are you alsogoing to have to onboard?
You're going to have to onboarda whole new belief system about
yourself.
You're going to have to onboarda whole new strategic way of
thinking.
You're going to have to let goof your executive's calendar and
give that to the EA, and that'sgoing to be hard.

(13:18):
It's going to be hard.

Speaker 2 (13:21):
Yeah, that's great.
That's excellent advice.
I hope we've answered ourlistener question to the best of
our abilities.
It is a very vague question.
It is a very vague question.
It's not a straightforwardanswer because you really need
to get into the nitty gritty ofthat job description you're
shooting for and make it workfor you.
But in the meantime, don't giveup with your learning and

(13:43):
development.
Seek out professional andpersonal growth.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
The two must align and keep learning, keep
absorbing information and let usknow how you get on.