Customer Success Playbook Podcast S3 E70 - Adrian Swinscoe - Data and Customer Storytelling

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Ready to shake up your customer experience approach with some no-fluff, straight-to-the-point wisdom? In this episode, Adrian Swinscoe – author of *Punk CX* and *How to Wow* – joins Roman Trebon to deliver a masterclass on how real, actionable data combined with firsthand customer stories can transform your CX from good to unforgettable. Learn why "going to the gemba" (that’s Japanese for “go see where the work happens”) can be the secret weapon in your customer success playbook, and why less complexity often results in more memorable experiences.Adrian Swinscoe dives deep into a pragmatic, almost punk rock philosophy of customer experience that’s anything but conventional. His call to action? Don’t get lost in the sea of binary data points and over-engineered solutions. Yes, data is king – but raw numbers alone often feel like a monochrome sketch. True customer success leaders bring color and context by blending quantitative insights with rich, qualitative stories. It’s these narratives that move teams to act and innovate, bridging the gap between cold metrics and vibrant human emotion.Swinscoe invokes the Toyota-inspired practice of “going to the gemba,” encouraging CX leaders to ditch conference rooms and dashboards for direct observation—whether it’s sitting with frontline agents or experiencing the product as a customer would. This boots-on-the-ground approach fosters empathy, reveals friction points invisible in reports, and catalyzes meaningful change.Echoing his punk ethos, Adrian warns against the natural tendency to keep piling on features and processes under the guise of “improvement.” Instead, simplicity should be your compass. If you add one new element to a process, critique what two things you can eliminate. Complexity is easy; elegance and clarity require discipline—and they pay dividends in customer loyalty.Roman’s illustrated comic example highlights the paradox: an overcomplicated onboarding and an overly simplified offboarding process reveal where brands lose customers—not because of lack of effort, but too much of the wrong kind of effort.For anyone seeking practical, actionable guidance on staying ahead in the crowded CX arena, this conversation is a treasure trove. Tune in, challenge your assumptions, and enrich your customer success playbook with these hard-earned lessons on observation, storytelling, and ruthless simplicity.Now you can interact with us directly by leaving a voice message at https://www.speakpipe.com/CustomerSuccessPlaybook

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Episode Transcript

Roman Trebon (00:05):
Customer success.
Hi everyone.
Welcome to the Customer SuccessPlaybook podcast, where we share
real world tactics elevatingyour.
Customer Success game.
I'm your host, Roman Trevon.
My co-host Kevin Metzger, thisweek is unable to join us and
he's gonna miss a great guest.

(00:25):
I'm really excited for who wehave on the show this week.
Uh, he's been shaking up the CXworld with bold thinking and
zero fluff for years.
Our guest without further ado isAdrian Scoe.
You may know him as the authorof Punk CX and how to Wow.
He's also a speaker, advisor,and provocateur helping brands
challenge the status quo ofcustomer experience.

(00:47):
Adrian, thrilled to have you onthe show.
Welcome.
I.

Adrian Swinscoe (00:50):
Ah, thank you, Roman.
That was some intro.
Blind me shaking things,provocateur blind me.
Um, no thank you.
Um, happy to be here.
Thank you for having me on.
Uh, hope I can, uh, share someideas that might get people
thinking.

Roman Trebon (01:05):
Our first show is always our number one tip,
right?
So something tactical that ouraudience can take back.
So, eh.
Adrian, for our audiencelistening, what's your, do you
have a single best tip or whatcan they do with their teams and
organizations to stand out bydelivering an unforgettable
customer experience in today'sworld?

Adrian Swinscoe (01:25):
I think the one thing I would say is that it's
all about data and, but I don'tmean kinda like data in terms
of.
The big data and all these sortthings.
I'm talking about differentlevels of data and however way
of thinking about kind of thing.
So I think that yes, we shoulduse all the Clancy tools that we
have available to us to informus like,'cause I think data
informs us, right?

(01:45):
Tells us identifies patterns,all these different things.
But oftentimes it can feel quitebinary sort of thing.
It's either this or it's not.
I think we have to take it uponourselves to actually add color
and context to that kinda data.
And so I think there's.
Data, while data can inform us,I think we always need to go out
and we need to gather kind ofcustomer stories, some of that
qualitative stuff, right?

(02:06):
Rather than just thequantitative stuff.
Also add color and context to itwith the, with the stories,
because stories actually moveus.
But I think that that, the finalthing I would, I would, I would
say that we should do, or shouldwe think about, is also gonna
understand that.
Us as us as human beings and ourown sort of psychology because
data might inform us, storiesmight move us, but if we

(02:27):
actually go and experiencesomething, either go and sit
next to an agent or actually goand be our own customer or
actually go and watch or, or, orspeak to customers out in the,
out in the field, then we getthat real life experience.
And when you see thingsfirsthand, experiences compel
us.
To do things.
So I think we need to do, whatwe need to do is we need to take

(02:48):
that data and we need to make itreal.
We need to get amongst it, weneed to, in the Japanese sense,
we gonna, there have thisexpression called going to the
gemba.
Oh, I love

Roman Trebon (02:58):
it.
Yes.
Go, go, go.
Where the work is that rightAdrian?
Am I right going where the workis?

Adrian Swinscoe (03:03):
Well, yeah, absolutely.
So gemba in, in Japanese meansthe real place.
So you might have, remember ifyou watch TV on the news, you'll
have TV reporters on the newsthat we're talking about
reporting from the gemba, theplace where something actually
happened.
Yeah.
Right.
And it so it, so it's the realplace where things actually can

(03:23):
happen.
So in Toyota, the Toyotamanagement system, they and
managers used to talk aboutwalking the floor and doing the
gemba walk because they would goand rather than just go to
instruct.
Can people about what's the bestway to do things?
They would go and learn.
They would go and listen.
They would go and observebecause I think that that, that
brings your kind of data to lifeand you see the, how people

(03:46):
interact with things, and thenyou see the really human
problems that people can haveand that can actually then go
give you some incredibleinsights in terms of what you
can do to make things different,and also to help you kinda stand
out.

Roman Trebon (03:59):
Yeah, I, I love that.
I was at an organization,Adrian, where we did the, these
a threes that Toyota used toproduce.
Right.
I dunno if you've ever seen,it's like a one pager.

Adrian Swinscoe (04:07):
Yeah.

Roman Trebon (04:07):
We would have all this data you talked about, you
know, our executives would be,you know, they'd be, oh, it's
interesting, we're wasting time,blah, blah, blah.
We would go to the gemba andthey would see the pain of our
employees and our customers andWow.
It's amazing how that stuffreally mattered when I could
actually see it when they wereactually there doing it.
All the numbers on the page,the, the client quotes we would

(04:28):
bring in.
Yeah.
They, they kind of peakedinterest when we brought it to
'em.
Wow.
Things moved amazing.
How quickly funding came and,and, and things moved once, once
they saw it.

Adrian Swinscoe (04:38):
Yeah.
No, a hundred percent.
I mean, I think that's the thingis that if you bring this stuff
as to life as much as possible,then you start to really gonna
get movement because others is,is.
It's easy to ignore kinda dataor just to observe it at arm's
length.
The stories actually start tobring it to life.
But like you said, these clientkinda quotes and stuff, but
where it really starts to hitand to kinda hit is kind of hear

(05:00):
and then kinda hear is when youactually, as you say, when you
see the pain or the friction orall that sort of like, stuff
kind of come to life and peoplego, oh, and then a head drop,
and then they feel compelled toactually do something about it.

Roman Trebon (05:12):
Yeah, absolutely.
So, so for audience, what, whatdoes.
Punk CX Media Dream, like how,you know, what does that mean to
you?
What are, how should ouraudience be thinking about punk
cx

Adrian Swinscoe (05:21):
in, in many ways, if you think about punk,
punk was like a, a stripped backversion of rock and roll, right?
It was open to anybody.
It was democratic.
Anybody could have a go at it.
It emerged on the back of, um,progressive rock in the 1970s.
It's a bit of like an anti kindof elaborate sort of thing.
And punk is the same, same sortof thing.
It's like, you know, what itmeans is like, don't

(05:43):
over-engineer it.
Ask yourself, can it be simpler?
Because we keep adding things,right?
We talk about, you know, wewanna make things simple, but
yet we keep adding things butnot taking things away.
And so maybe there's a questionyou go, if you're gonna add
something, ask yourself what twothings you're gonna take away.
Because if you're not, you'rejust adding complexity and

(06:04):
you're not making thingssimpler.
And so.
Just keep an eye on that sort ofthing.
Keep kinda simplicity, kind ofa, at, at, at the, the front of
your kinda mind.
Keep looking at things from adifferent, different
perspectives because there's no,there's, there's all sorts of
different ways that you can getto the solution.
It doesn't, you don'tnecessarily have to follow the
crowd.

Roman Trebon (06:24):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And, and it sounds like youdon't need to over-engineer
either, right?
Yeah.
Which is No, no, completely.
That's

Adrian Swinscoe (06:29):
it.
I mean, uh, we, we, we have thetendency to do that, to sort of,
to, to, you know, to add thingsthinking, oh, if we add this and
we add this and add this, it'dbe better.
You're like going, yeah.
It's better in your mind,perhaps, but when you, when
you're faced with somebodytrying to use it, you're like
going, I have no idea what'sgoing on here.
Yeah.
And that's the sort of confusionyou don't wanna do.
You wanna try and make it thingsas simple and as easy as

(06:51):
possible.
But you've gotta be on it.
You've gotta stay on it to beand be able to challenge the
sort of dominant logic and thenarrative that goes on, like by,
'cause we naturally add things.
'cause that's just the, the,the, the, the, the easiest thing
to do.
But we find it very difficult totake things away.

Roman Trebon (07:06):
I, I love it.
It reminds me of my favoritecomic.
Like there's a little comic andthere's two people looking at a
whiteboard, Adrian.
And on the one, there's allthese process maps everywhere,
and it says opening an account.
And on the other side it says,close account, and it just says,
call close account, just oneline.
And they say, how, why are moreclients leaving than, than, than
opening an accounts, right?
Because the one is overoverprocessed and the other is

(07:26):
so simple, right?
Like Right.
You don't need more all thetime.
Just simplify it.
I, I love it.
So Adrian, thanks so much.
It's a great way to kick off theweek.
Love that we're talking about CXand, and really tactical things
that our audience can do thisweek.
Go to the gemba, see the realwork happening, use the data,
gather the stories, but actuallygo do it.
Awesome stuff.
Uh, our audience, be sure tojoin us.

(07:47):
Uh, for our next episode.
Adrian's gonna come back.
We're gonna tackle a, a biggerstrategic question, how to
reduce friction without losingpersonality.
Okay.
Until then, to our audience,please subscribe to the show.
Like it, share it with yourcolleagues.
We make these shows bite-sizethat you can listen, you can
share, you get something out ofit, and you can take it back to
your organization to drive realchange.

(08:09):
So again, uh, thanks forlistening.
Until next time, keep onplaying.