Sam Oshtry Interview: What Tom Thibodeau's Firing Means for the Knicks and Other Teams - 06/03/25

Sam Oshtry joins Sean Brace and Sean Barnard to talk about the #Knicks firing Tom Thibodeau, the potential replacement, and whether Thibs will find himself another coaching job or just take the buyout into the sunset.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Number one on your car radio preset hand the new
and improved Diehard Radio w YES and WD two seven
Break d Philadelphia. I is Fox Sports Radio The Gambler.
You're listening to The Daily Ticket with Sean Brakes on
Fox Sports Radio The Gambler. Yes, the action starts here.

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Yes, it does four o'clock our Daily Ticket with you
here and Sham Bernard. The weather is warming up outside. Man,
you know what time it is. It's Rita's time. Stop
buy a Rita's near you. Check them out online readers,
ice dot com. Make you sign up for the membership.
You get all the rewards right now. They got the skittles.

(00:46):
I'll call it skittles. John, oh, so good, so good.
I think it's called Sharkleberry. I want to say, I'll
be your huckleberry. I'll be your Sharkleberry. And uh it
is it's red. It's so good man. And you know
that's the best part about Rita's for me is I
don't rely need the small guy.

Speaker 3 (01:04):
Just boom are you?

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Are you? And I see Sam is a water ice guy.
He is a Rita's guy. Are you an ice cream guy?
Or do you prefer the water ice?

Speaker 4 (01:11):
I've been a big misto guy from Rita specifically here,
but I'll do it all in general.

Speaker 3 (01:15):
I'm a water ice guy, but I do like to
to mix it. You're going to a deserted island, you
could take one with you. What do you take? Mango?
Water ice? There? It is? Yeah, mango. That's a strong flavor.

Speaker 2 (01:25):
Right, They're very popular, Sam Austri that next job is
going to be pretty popular.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
Sarah, how are we doing today? It sure is.

Speaker 5 (01:32):
I'm doing good. I'm doing good. It's never a dull
day in the NBA. How are you, Fellas, No, it's not.

Speaker 2 (01:39):
Now you know where we're starting because you had me
believing like there was this was This has now been
brought up between the three of us, and we're not
the only ones.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
We understand that.

Speaker 2 (01:50):
But this has been talked about, probably dating back six
weeks ago, in maybe five, but I'll say six weeks
and when I originally brought it up, what you said
to me stuck with me and I go, he's probably right.
And oh, by the way, everything on the back of
the baseball card for the freaking head coach.

Speaker 3 (02:10):
Just had an unbelievable run. Made the Eastern Conference.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
I was first time in twenty five years, back to
back fifty plus win seasons. Four out of five times
he coached the Knicks to the playoffs. You think that
would mean something after the results that and done. Nope,
not so fast, see it. Thibbs is out as the
head coach of the New York Knicks, and you laid
the framework, You led the groundwork that. Look, there's more
to the story than just firing him and bringing some

(02:32):
new coaching because you got to think about the logistics
when it comes to Jalen Brunton on the team, his
dad is on the coaching staff. Leon Rose, you can
go into a little bit of that. That partnership, that friendship.
I don't know if it exists anymore, but I mean
from a scale of on the scale of one to ten,
ten being absolutely Florid Seaan's of six, I'm probably six
and a half seven.

Speaker 3 (02:53):
Where are you at right now?

Speaker 5 (02:55):
I'm like a nine or ten.

Speaker 6 (02:57):
Bow can never be surprised in the NBA these days
because after this season with the craziness what we saw
with forgot the player trades with Luca, but the coaching
firings where Taylor Jenkins and Mike Malona out with just
a few weeks ago in the regular season. You can
never be surprised by anything in the NBA anymore. But
the reason I thought this was different, and the reason
I told you this is not happening weeks ago and

(03:18):
I would be shocked if it did, and now I'm
sitting here shocked talking to you guys, was because this
organization is different, and the relationship between Leon Rose and
Tom Thibodeau is different than or was different than most
presidents and coaches relationships.

Speaker 5 (03:34):
Because they're actually friends.

Speaker 6 (03:36):
And that's why Leon Rose hired this way back, when
those guys can tell you for legitimate fact they are friends.
They are like more than just friend guys who just
do working relationships.

Speaker 5 (03:46):
Those guys are friends.

Speaker 6 (03:47):
I think they would have considered each other friends, and
I don't know if.

Speaker 5 (03:50):
They still do.

Speaker 6 (03:51):
But that's why I always thought that the dynamics were
different where things would have to get so dire And
doesn't mean Leon Rose would ever be above firing Tom Thibodeau,
but things would have to get so dire with that organization.
They would have had to have a first round exit
to the Pistons for leon Rose to actually let him go.

Speaker 5 (04:06):
But that didn't happen at all. That didn't happen at all.

Speaker 6 (04:10):
Not only did things not get dire, there are three
people responsible for the turn for the next turnaround. And
let's let's go back and realize what franchise we're talking about.
We're talking about New York Knicks. The New York Knickerbocker
is what we're talking about right now, a franchise that,
since Jim Dolan acquired the team in nineteen ninety nine,
has been a complete joke and a complete laughing stock
of the entire NBA. There are three people responsible for

(04:31):
the turnaround over the last five years. That's A Leon Rose,
who's done a phenomenal job turning this team around. B
Jalen Bronson, who's obviously a superstar in the Kinge New
York and the captain of the Knicks. And three Tom Thibodeaux,
who has done a great job building a winning culture
within an organization that has had a losing culture for
decades and really the entirety of Jim Dolan's ownership, they've

(04:54):
been a losing franchise and a losing culture. And three
guys are responsible for that turnaround. And now one of
them has gone, not after he had a poor season,
not after the Knicks descended it anyway, or even plat
Totin anyway. Every single year since Jalen Brunson has been there,
every single year since Tom Dibodeaux has been there. When
he went, they actually got Jalen Brunson. They've ascended and

(05:14):
they just made the first conference finals in twenty five years.

Speaker 5 (05:17):
And what's Tom Dibdeau's reward for that? Out the door?

Speaker 6 (05:20):
See you later, Sayonara, it's a it's an unfathomable decision.
And then you factor in the Jalen Brunston situation, and
the Jalen Brunston situation is Rick Brunson is Jalen Brunson's
dad who's on that staff. Jalen Brunson just turned down
one hundred and thirteen million dollars for this organization in
this franchise to see sacrifice that type of money to

(05:40):
help them build a winning team. This organization just slapped
him in the face because they didn't just fired Tom Thibodeaux.

Speaker 5 (05:46):
They fired his staff and that includes his dad, Rick Brunson.

Speaker 6 (05:49):
And you could say, theoretically, sure, Rick Brunson can just
can just get clatch onto the next staff he'll be
a coach on the next staff.

Speaker 5 (05:55):
And maybe that's true. I'm not I don't know if
that could be true.

Speaker 6 (05:58):
But Tom Dibdeau didn't just hire Rick Brunson because he
was Jalen's dad. They have a relationship going back years.
Rick Brunson was a player for the Knicks when Tom
Diabdeau was an assistant coach for the Knicks. In the nineties,
Rick Brunson went an assistant coach under Tom.

Speaker 5 (06:12):
Dibideau for the Bulls and the Wolves. This relationship goes
back years.

Speaker 6 (06:16):
So yeah, maybe the next coach will also hire Rick Brunson.
It probably won't be the same role if he does.
But this is this is a fire in Tom Tabbideau
and Jalen Brunson's dad, a guy who had full who
fully supported Tom Dibbindeaux and just sacrificed one hundred and
thirteen million dollars for your organization.

Speaker 3 (06:32):
Wow, well said my only following, My only follow up
would be jewelling beat and Paul George for Jalen Brunson.
Does that would that work? Does that work in the
apron world? I kid?

Speaker 2 (06:45):
Well, Okay, what does it mean for Jalen Brunson. Then
if he's getting slapped in the face, what does it mean?
What if you had to guess right now? Again, it's
it's very very fresh. It just happened literally about an
hour ago. What does it mean for Jalen Brunson right
now as we're sitting here.

Speaker 6 (07:01):
I mean, doesn't mean much. It's not like Jaylen Bruns
is asking out like he loves New York. He Leon
Rose is still the president, Leon Rose father and he's
still the king in New York.

Speaker 5 (07:11):
Who doesn't really mean much other than.

Speaker 6 (07:13):
He's probably pissed, Like I don't I don't know exactly,
but I would imagine he's probably pissed because now his
dad's certain is on future on that staff.

Speaker 5 (07:20):
He obviously liked Tom Thibodeaux.

Speaker 6 (07:22):
And what it really means for not just Jalen Bruns,
him for the Knicks as a whole is why I
don't buy this spin now that this was a Leon
Rose decisition for everything I just laid out, Because of
the dynamics between him and Tom Thibodeaux, because of the
dynamics between Jalen Brunson and his.

Speaker 5 (07:35):
Dad and his relationship with Tom Tibdeau.

Speaker 6 (07:37):
I believe This was Jim Dolan meddling with basketball decisions.
And the reason why the Knicks have been so good
able to turn around the last few years is because
Jim Dolan hasn't medaled with basketball decisions. He's left it
all to Leon Rose and world Wide West and their
entire staff, and they've done a great job because they're
brilliant executives. If Leon Roe, excuse me, if James Dolan,

(07:59):
Jim Dolan, what everyone call was back to meddling and
basketball decisions, that's a problem for New York. And that's
what this signals to me, because even two days ago, the.

Speaker 5 (08:07):
Athletic reported that Leon Rose fully.

Speaker 6 (08:09):
Backed, fully backed bringing back Tom Thibodeaux, but his status
was uncertain because of ownership and they weren't sure what ownership.
The Athletic reported that two days ago, and that's what
I've been saying.

Speaker 5 (08:20):
For for weeks now because of the relationship.

Speaker 6 (08:22):
So now this to me is telling me that ownership
is meddling, and I don't care about to spin the
next one and put on now when it was oldly
on Rose's decision. To me, this is saying that ownership
is now meddling with basketball decisions.

Speaker 3 (08:34):
Yeah, and look and Sean, I would just say, so
somebody gets Dolan's ear.

Speaker 2 (08:40):
Now, Dolan's a diehard, He's at every game. He loves
to be the focal point. He still sits front row whatever.
And of course, like you said, Sam, that was my
understanding was, like man, one of the reasons why things
started turning around for the next of these past couple
of seasons. Of course it's brunts and it starts and
ends there. But oh, by the way, he's fallen off
and no longer a mainstay and the decision making. That's

(09:01):
how I understood it. Now he's the owner, and the
end of the season they fall short. If they get
to the finals, Thibbs is probably still the guy, but
they lost, and there is a lot of voices right
now saying that this is the type of coach that
will get you to where he could, but probably is
not going to get over the hump. So therefore you
need to go out there and get somebody that has

(09:23):
that championship mentality, somebody that can take what has been
built in these last five seasons something of significance and
take them that next step. And I'm sure Dolan was
probably going, you know what, yeah. And oh, by the way,
the way he plays these players with the.

Speaker 3 (09:40):
Because that's alarming.

Speaker 4 (09:41):
Which by the way, they had the best health luck
they could possibly ask for in this playoffs.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
That's alarming when you tell when you start throwing those
numbers about the combined minutes together from the starters versus
the pacers, versus these other teams. And I know they
beat the Celtics and they deserve a ton of credit,
but then like, it takes a lot for you to
get to the NBA Finals, and maybe Dolan was saying
that it's probably gonna be a little bit too much
to overcome.

Speaker 5 (10:05):
I don't know, but part of it is.

Speaker 6 (10:08):
Part of it is that there were legitimate gripes with
Tom Thibodeaux that that's true. He was unimaginative offensively, like
how he utilized mchil bridges this year. Really towards the
second half of the season, their offense really got way
worse and when it should have gotten better with the
addition of kar Anthony Towns, and it got way worse
than second half of the year compared to the first half.
And part of that is because the Cat and Brunson

(10:29):
pick and roll wasn't nearly as effective. They started going
away from it. Like I said, he's unimaginable offensively. So
there were legitimate gripes with them Thibodeaux, but all the
normal complaints and criticisms of him, he kind of answered,
like he plays his guys too much. You could say
it's lucked this year, but everyone, every main player was
healthy at the end of a conference finals run. Everyone
was healthy. You could say he never adapts. That's what

(10:50):
people say. He doesn't adapt. In the Celtics series, he
completely shifted his ideology with the Knicks, never switched anything defensively. Ever,
against the Celtics, they start whitching everything. And part of
that was to limit the Celtics threes and make them
play more one on one.

Speaker 5 (11:04):
And it worked.

Speaker 6 (11:05):
It worked pretty well because obviously the next one that
series another thing he doesn't use his bench enough. That
could be true too, but let's be honest, like that
was more of a roster issue to me this season
than it was a coaching issue, because yeah, Landrew Shammitt
and Delon Wright had great production, productive shifts in the playoffs,
and he didn't go to them earlier. When those guys

(11:26):
went in for the first time in that lineup.

Speaker 5 (11:27):
I was like, what is this lineup?

Speaker 2 (11:29):
Like?

Speaker 6 (11:29):
Those aren't legitimate bench players that you wanted to playoff
or teaching. So I thought this team just didn't have
a lot of bench to play. And so yeah, when
Thibbs keeps the starters in when they're up by twenty
five with three minutes to go, do I yell at
the TV?

Speaker 5 (11:42):
Too? And does every single NBA fan yell the TV
like what are you doing? Tom Thibodeaux?

Speaker 6 (11:46):
Of course, but that's just who he is. He also
helped build this culture round.

Speaker 4 (11:50):
Yeah, I think you're right on a lot of this, Sam,
and I love like that was excellent the way you
portrayed all this. The point that I really want to
circle back to. You mentioned that athletic apport the Athletic Report.
What we're telling part of that story to me was
sort of the direct digs on Karl Anthony town specifically here. Now,
my sort of feeling and what I think is the
correct move from a next perspective is you got to
move on from Karl Anthony Towns, and I don't think

(12:10):
you can win a championship or go farther than was
the case than they did this season with Kat as
the problem here.

Speaker 3 (12:15):
I don't care if it's Phil Jackson, I don't care.

Speaker 4 (12:17):
If it's Jay Wright, if it's Tom Thibodeaux, whoever it is,
that with Karl Anthony Towns as a staple of your team,
there are holes that are impossible to fill there. But
with that being said, that seems like the opposite direction
of what they're going I think if the true intentions
were to move on from Kat, that you're running it
back with Thibodeau, who's just had all the success here.
Do you think that was sort of the decision making
behind the scenes. Is it's either a coach or a

(12:38):
roster change or do you think that could still be
on the table.

Speaker 5 (12:41):
I think it could be on the table.

Speaker 6 (12:42):
But really the only avenue for improvement is a honest
treed or how much you would have to give up,
which would be like a cat and maybe mckel bridges
in three way deal, which would be really complicated. Like otherwise,
where are you shipping Kat to? Where your rosters are
going to improve?

Speaker 3 (12:57):
Phoenix?

Speaker 6 (12:57):
And you're way more critical of Kat than me, and
I'm critical of him too, but you really are critical
of him, and I just I still think you can
win with Cat. He has obvious limitations defensively, if he's
in the right system and the right team, you can
still be a great defense.

Speaker 5 (13:12):
You saw that on Minnesota. That was a great defense
with Kat.

Speaker 6 (13:15):
Yes, it's a problem if him and Jalen Brunson are
on the floor together defensively, because they're both both liabilities defensively.
But the bigger problem to me was those guys didn't
make each other better offensively, like over the last couple
of months of the season.

Speaker 5 (13:28):
Really throughout the playoff run.

Speaker 6 (13:29):
Jaylen Brunson was the phenomenal most of the playoff run and
Cat had some great moments, and I thought he was
really good as a score against the Pacers, but they
weren't complimenting each other well at all. It was take
your turn, my turn type of stuff. So I want
to see them compliment each other more. And I so
think that's part of the prognosis with Tom Thibodeau, where
it's like these He wasn't improving this offense in a
way that he should have. So yes, I think you're

(13:50):
right that this probably means that Cat's gonna stick around,
But I also thought he's always gonna stick around just
because there's no real avenue for improvement other than some
Yiannis trade, which is probably really difficult to facility.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
This is the one.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
Giannis is the end all, be all, whatever picks you want.
For the most part, for all these teams, I would
say san Antonio is probably in that conversation that maybe
they might want.

Speaker 3 (14:10):
To Houston Orlando.

Speaker 2 (14:12):
Well, no, I mean from the standpoint of like not
doing the deal, not giving everything up. I think san
Antonio is doing all right right now. I get it.
It would make sense, but it's going to be a
tall ass to get Yannis. But they should do it.

Speaker 3 (14:25):
Man. Yeah, if I'm saying, are you good luck scoring.

Speaker 4 (14:29):
On a team with Giannis and Wemby as the two
front court options there? And by the way, Wenby can
space the floor allow Giannis to attack ther I get like,
they're obviously very young. Wenby's twenty one years old, so
the fan Castle reigning rookie of the Year. Yeah, but
they kind of already showed their cards when they traded
for Darren Fox this year. That was a win now move.
That was that we're starting to go all in and like, realistically,
Victor Wembanyama has arrived. This is not him up and coming.

(14:51):
He is among the best players in the NBA right now.
So if I'm san Antonio, I absolutely am making that
call for Giannis, I would do it.

Speaker 3 (14:58):
I did want to bring back the sam.

Speaker 4 (15:00):
Kevin Durant is not an upgrade to you or is
not a guy that you consider from the next perspective,
And why not?

Speaker 6 (15:07):
No, no, because look, I'm Kevin Durant's awesome. He's just old,
like thirty seven, but the seven in September.

Speaker 5 (15:16):
I was about, say thirty five. He's thirty seven years old.

Speaker 6 (15:19):
And we're talking about a guy where where all these
Knicks players are in their late twenties around twenty seven,
twenty eight or like, or like just turning.

Speaker 5 (15:26):
Thirty or so. But the window is right out, a
nice window here. What do you have to give up
for two years?

Speaker 3 (15:31):
What do you have to give up to ghetto? Right?

Speaker 4 (15:33):
Like, yeah, probably Cat You're sending Kat to Phoenix is
sort of the staple that it's gonna be complicated, like
all these trades are due to all the CBA stuff.
It probably involves bridges too. And you do that ten
times out of ten of miles like you're saying that
about Kevin Durant.

Speaker 5 (15:45):
Then you're giving up, you're.

Speaker 6 (15:46):
Giving up more depth, Like look what the Phoenix Suns
just built when they were just star hunted and had
no depth.

Speaker 5 (15:51):
Bridges is an important piece to that.

Speaker 6 (15:53):
If you're doing Cat KD straight up, maybe I'd have
the conversation. Man, Probably not just because I think I
think you have a longer runway with Cat, because he
has more left in his career than Kad does as
far you never know what Katy's gonna start start descending
as a player.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
The big picture conversation for me is, Man, you just
went to the e CF and now you're blowing us
all up, new head coach. You're trading two major pieces
of Karl Anthony towns and bridges.

Speaker 3 (16:17):
Like, I get it.

Speaker 2 (16:18):
Yannis is the end. I'll be all you're right about Yiannis.
I'll give up whatever you want. But if it's not Yannis,
we're talking about Vin Durant. I love KD, but he's
not Kevin Durant from five six years ago. He's thirty
seven years old. The dude's injury prone.

Speaker 4 (16:31):
He you know what the average last year he brace
he shut He averaged twenty eight point six points per
game four points to assists, six point oh rebound shot
forty three percent from three.

Speaker 3 (16:39):
That's still Kevin Duran's record.

Speaker 5 (16:41):
What was his team's record.

Speaker 3 (16:42):
You're putting that on Kevin Durant there, Well, not all
of it.

Speaker 5 (16:44):
But I think a contributes. It's a contributing.

Speaker 6 (16:46):
Factor when you just have stars that you pile up
without a real roster, like a roster building a roster
in medic I think.

Speaker 2 (16:52):
You are rolling the dice believing that he's going to
give you sixty plus games like he did this year.

Speaker 4 (16:58):
I just here's here's my pitch is if you're the
next right now, the window to win is next year,
to win a championship. That the East will never be
a clear path than what it currently is. Jason Tatum
has an achilles tear. Giannis is out of on his
way out of Milwaukee. Who knows what the Sixers team
is even gonna look like. Indiana is good, but not
this team that you should be running from. The Calves

(17:18):
are good, but not this team that you should be
running from. And you saw their flaws in the playoffs.
That if you're in New York right now, it's time
to go for it. That Kevin Durant being old is
not a bad thing to me in my mind.

Speaker 5 (17:28):
Yes, yet it's time to go for it.

Speaker 6 (17:30):
But this next team that we're looking at, all these
avenues to improve without the flukeous game one collapse in
NBA history. Yeah, they're in a Game seven and probably
one game that would be would have been last night.
That were one game away from an NBA Finals appearance.
So like, going for it can also mean running this
team back and holding around the margins, adding depth Mason

(17:51):
and for them a coaching change.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
That's where I'm at, and I'm minus the coaching change.
I would have kept it the same and try and
add and see what who else you can get in
there to New York to play in this arena where
the fans are absolutely just maniacals.

Speaker 3 (18:06):
So I thought that that would have been.

Speaker 6 (18:09):
Are It kind of tells you what the Knicks actually
thought about their season, where they were actually more disappointed
than on them. They probably saw this playoff run as
a bit fluky.

Speaker 3 (18:21):
Then shame on them because.

Speaker 6 (18:24):
After he brought you to your first conference finals in
twenty five years. Yeah, so they probably saw this as
a bit fluky as this run because like, look, they
were down by twenty and three other win playoff wins
this year. It was the first time in the history
a team came back from twenty points three times. But
the other equation is that you can say, like they
need to voice in the locker room.

Speaker 5 (18:42):
There probably is some truth to the.

Speaker 6 (18:44):
Fact that he might have lost the voice of a
locker room, and like there was a lot of player
only meetings, like after Game two that that locker room
apparently was was pretty ugly after the Game two lost
to the Pacers, with the things with Kat where he
wasn't being receptive to some of the things they were
telling him to do with pick.

Speaker 5 (19:00):
And roll coverages.

Speaker 6 (19:01):
It's like there could be some truth to him losing
his voice in the locker room. But he's still the
bolltom from the best player on the team, and that yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
Kyle Fisher checking in, He's got a good one here.
I apologize. Let me bring this one up. Uh Tims
has taking every one of his teams to their best
record in ten plus years and then taking two of
them to their deepest playoffs runs in the twenty first century.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
The dude backs it up. That's for sure.

Speaker 5 (19:26):
One of the most misunderstood coaches of this generation.

Speaker 4 (19:29):
I've got a soft spot for Thibs as well that
I like. I like Thiss too, and I understand like,
would you get rid of Nick Nurse right now?

Speaker 3 (19:35):
For him?

Speaker 4 (19:36):
Uh not? Based on the context of the Sixers now correct? Yeah,
the rosters a little little bleak.

Speaker 3 (19:42):
I wouldn't go that far.

Speaker 2 (19:43):
I can come on, these guys aren't lasting, They're not healthy.

Speaker 4 (19:48):
Well, that's why I don't think top fib but it
was the answer for proaching Joel Embiid is trying to
play Joel right, That's where I landed on.

Speaker 3 (19:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm went to there the guy. I
also want to bring up Josh hart Man.

Speaker 4 (20:01):
Can we have a Josh hart conversation of can this
dude be as important to a contending championship winning team
as he is the New York Knicks, Because if we
want to call a spade a spade and.

Speaker 3 (20:11):
He put the he'd put this fully on himself.

Speaker 4 (20:12):
He stood up and took it like a man after
the game or after the series here, he was a
large reason why they lost that series.

Speaker 3 (20:18):
I think Jay Reich can get more out of him.
Do you you think he can?

Speaker 2 (20:21):
I think he had no, no, no, I just think
from the entertainment stamp. But I do sure. I am
intrigued by Jay Wright though getting one more crack and
going into that situation, because it does seem like that
would really you know, Jay's coming out of retirement. Number one,
you're getting the best of them, and then number two,
it would just raise the game. From the entertainment standpoint,
it'd be so much fun to tune into. And and oh,

(20:43):
by the way, with Brunson, there is that connection. I
don't think he would be locked into running it back
with all Villanova alum. I don't know if that would
be the smart approach. But Brunson isn't going anywhere, that's
for damn sure.

Speaker 3 (20:56):
Sure.

Speaker 6 (20:56):
To Stron's point about Josh part, he does have two
larger role. And look, when they traded for him, he
was to be a bench player and give him some depth.

Speaker 5 (21:04):
He wasn't.

Speaker 6 (21:05):
He became a starter because Julius Randall went out and
then he was great last year. And look, he was
awful against the Pacers, and he'll be the first to
tell you that.

Speaker 5 (21:12):
Yeah, but he was awful.

Speaker 6 (21:13):
Defensively, which is shocking from him because he's a great
defender in transition.

Speaker 3 (21:17):
But in transition.

Speaker 5 (21:19):
Yeah, it was.

Speaker 6 (21:19):
It was a weird series. It was an uncharacteristic series.
I'm not like super concerned about Josh Hart. The bigger
concern has always been with this offensive role as offensive
fit with that team. It was just a weird series
where like some guys just have bad series, good players
have bad series. Mental stuff comes up, and he just
had a bad series. He does have two large a
role in this on this next team for sure. He's
capable of playing so many minutes a night and he's

(21:40):
such a workhorse where it will embrace that challenge. But again,
part of what I mean by building around the margins
is building that depth, building adding another starting spot that
could replace Josh Hart, maybe even a Mitchell Robinson goes
into the starting lineup and Josh Hart comes off the bench,
like they actually implemented in the playoffs. If Mitch is
healthy for an entire year, if actually hold on to

(22:00):
Mitch because he's an expiring deal, they might want.

Speaker 5 (22:03):
To look to treat him.

Speaker 6 (22:04):
But look, yeah, you're right that Josh Archers has too
large a role, and that'll be one of the things
where they try to address that this season.

Speaker 5 (22:09):
But he'll still be on the roster, just hopefully coming
off the bench.

Speaker 2 (22:11):
Yeah, but that's my point is how can you improve
the roster. Of course we understand what takes as far
as money is concerned, and bump a guy like Josh
Hart to the bench like that. He's a great player
coming off the bench, full of that energy. What he
does as far as rebounding his concern Maybe that's the
type of guy you won off the bench, not starting
for you. And I know he had some moments this

(22:34):
year and definitely last year as a starter, but that's
how you really raise the game up.

Speaker 3 (22:39):
And again, the biggest.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
Point for me, guys is we're talking about a team
and Bibbs made the joke. He didn't make a joke,
excuse me, but he did say it. And I know
he's getting terrorized for it was we were one of
the final three. It's like, what are you talking about?
One of the final three? Like, get out of here
with that nonsense. Look, the Knicks were all in right,
they made all these moves. They came up short front

(23:02):
office saying thanks but no thanks, it's not good enough.
And now they need to find a new head coach.

Speaker 6 (23:07):
And my point has always been that they weren't all
in for one year, like these guys are all under
contract and they have to work out the Bridges extension.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
So these it was clear the front office isn't thinking
that or at least somebody isn't thinking that way.

Speaker 5 (23:21):
Yeah, yeah, I guess not.

Speaker 6 (23:22):
And again I think it's ownership, but they were They
should have been all in for a three to four
year window because that's what they had when they traded
for Cat.

Speaker 5 (23:30):
It wasn't going to be a one year thing.

Speaker 6 (23:32):
And I guess expectations raised throughout the season and throughout
the playoff run and they didn't meet them. And this
was probably a decision that was made more towards the
end of the regular season because when you look at
the run they made, what could Dips have really done,
especially when he showed that all his guys stayed healthy
and he adapted throughout the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
And that's another point too. Thank you for saying what
you just said there, right Like when we talk about
the Knicks and yeah, they are flawed, and yes they
did have the battleback from down twenty two times in
that Celtics series, three times in this.

Speaker 4 (23:58):
Say what are we saying about the Pacers they're good,
they're they're a good team, but have they not had
a horseshoe up their ass too as well?

Speaker 2 (24:04):
In his playoff run, like being lucky or saying there's
always a certain amount of luck when it comes to
teams that eventually play for a championship, win a championship.
We can even go back to Eagles, we can talk about,
you know, the Phillies in Oay, Like there's always an amount.

Speaker 3 (24:19):
Of luck, ball bouncing your way, whatever it may be.

Speaker 2 (24:21):
But it's like, all right, now, if the Pacers came
up shorter, they fired and everybody.

Speaker 4 (24:25):
But the Pacers just did this exact same thing last year.
They built off where they went last year and got
fur Like, there's linear steps the Pacers have taken, and
you can make the same case that the Knicks have here.

Speaker 3 (24:35):
They absolutely have moving in the proper direction.

Speaker 4 (24:38):
I'm a little bit I think the Knicks, or i
mean the Pacers are still not getting the respect that
they should have earned with how they're playing here. It's
sort of my case here it's a different, different formula
than they have been a lot of NBA teams.

Speaker 3 (24:48):
But it's successful.

Speaker 4 (24:50):
It's working for them, and like the success should speak
for itself in a way that I still don't think
people are quite acknowledged.

Speaker 6 (24:56):
You know, what we've kind of realized throughout the last
couple of years is NBA organizations do not value coaches
at all commodity to them. And look, someone said, uh,
pretty recently, I heard this that NBA coaches are like
the tenth most most important person in the NBA. In
the organization, you got the owner obviously, you got the GM,

(25:19):
the president, bast operations, the CEO.

Speaker 5 (25:21):
Then you have the best.

Speaker 6 (25:21):
Players, the stars, the stars agents, and then you have
the coach.

Speaker 5 (25:26):
So NBA coaches just are replaceable.

Speaker 6 (25:28):
And you're seeing that more and more throughout the NBA,
where these guys have such a short lease and they
just see them as replaceable guys, where it's like anyone
can really come in and and have these same offensive
and defensive philosophies because the copycat league and build the
same culture. So these guys are just like they're just easily.
They're getting fired and fired left and right.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
They just let me let me just say this is
this one just bounced to my timeline. Apparently Thibs is
going to make thirty million dollars. Wow, they fired he
got He just signed an extension, didn't even kick in yet.

Speaker 5 (25:57):
Apparently that its last year sign it. It's going to
kick in next year.

Speaker 3 (26:02):
What that's like. I didn't even know that, Phoenix.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
You know how many coaches are paying Milwaukee same thing?

Speaker 3 (26:08):
Right? Are the Sixers paying other coaches right now?

Speaker 4 (26:11):
Well, the deal is if you get another head coaching gig,
that supersedes it. So like, if that's choice to take
another job, that's off the table and.

Speaker 5 (26:18):
Get another job.

Speaker 3 (26:19):
This is it.

Speaker 4 (26:20):
Why would you if you're getting paid thirty million dollars
sit at home?

Speaker 3 (26:22):
Why would you?

Speaker 5 (26:23):
Man?

Speaker 3 (26:23):
Okay, but he okay.

Speaker 6 (26:24):
But what we know about thim is this guy loves
bull like he coached for free.

Speaker 5 (26:28):
He's a grinder. He has no family.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
This guy loves bull And now those people without families
you got to watch out for.

Speaker 3 (26:35):
It's those people for a year. Oh, he's brutal.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
He's got the personality of that wall right there. I
don't want to see you know what. Actually, ESPN will
hire him. That that's right, man, put them right in
the middle exactly.

Speaker 3 (26:49):
All right.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
Look, Sam's here, Shamanard's here, and we will talk all
things next down. I don't even think we got this one,
so let's hit on this and I want to get
the finals with you with you too. But as far
as coaching right now, is there one automatic call?

Speaker 3 (27:07):
Is there a dark horse candidate?

Speaker 2 (27:10):
If Brunson has some saying this as I would hope
he would, as dominant as he is, as gifted as
he is, you know, putting Jay Wright to the side,
of course, like, is there somebody else that Brunson might like?
What's your approach right now? As far as finding that
next head coach for the.

Speaker 6 (27:25):
Next yeah, luckily, because these teams just fire good head
coaches all the time. There's a lot of them available. True,
there's a ton of them available. So look, the first
call is obviously.

Speaker 5 (27:34):
The Jay Wright.

Speaker 6 (27:35):
And I know you guys talked about it already, and
I brace that's all you put it at twenty.

Speaker 5 (27:41):
I don't know Jay Wright.

Speaker 6 (27:42):
I know I know some people that know him, but
I have no idea what he's thinking about the situation.
He'll get a call, Leona Rows will call him.

Speaker 5 (27:50):
I'd probably be pretty surprised if he took it.

Speaker 6 (27:52):
Yeah, I think he has to consider it, and I
think he would consider it for sure. I think he
really likes his life right now. Yeah, I think he
really enjoys his life now. Just being on TV during
the college basketball that's it.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
He's gonna he's gonna answer that phone call and he's
gonna say, this is it?

Speaker 3 (28:06):
Is this the opportunity, like this is this is it?
This is the one?

Speaker 5 (28:10):
You have to New York Nick to think.

Speaker 2 (28:12):
If it's not this, then I am done coaching for
the rest of my life.

Speaker 3 (28:16):
Hands down.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
Now the USA Basketball could play into assistant coach, could
scratch that, it's whatever it may be. But man, that
actually pushed me to believing even more because Luke and
I love Luke. I'm not picking on him, but he
was like he's a college basketball coach. I'm like, he's
got NBA chops. Like, let's let's be realistic.

Speaker 6 (28:32):
He would succeed in the NBA for sure, exceeding at
any coach coaching at any level correct and especially coaching.
A bunch of his former guys all respect him, respect
him a tumming credit their their rise and their success
to him.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
Boy, man, my dude, damage to that wig. Though he
might turn gray, just say, guy, great.

Speaker 5 (28:50):
Could we borrow some of his hair? At sixty five
years old. I'm asking a sixty five year old to
borrow his hair.

Speaker 3 (28:56):
It's never too late, Sam, It's never too late.

Speaker 2 (28:58):
Speaking of the hair with Thibbs, like, yeah, thirty million,
go fly to Turkey, Thibs, all right.

Speaker 3 (29:03):
The come over. It's been hanging on by thread for years.

Speaker 5 (29:06):
I think he's past Turkey.

Speaker 6 (29:07):
I think I think the days are getting ready, way
past back.

Speaker 5 (29:12):
Back to Jay right.

Speaker 3 (29:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (29:13):
I think he thinks about it. You have to think
about it's the New York next, it's coaching and former guys.
I do think he really likes his life right now,
and I think he's past coaching and he just he
he just goes does college basketball during that season. He chills,
He goes to the beach down the shore in the
Jersey Shore. Around here, he's don Wayne, going to concerts
with his wife and his family.

Speaker 5 (29:34):
I think he's really like love. It's a complete different lifestyle.
We're gonna go coach the NBA and coach the Knicks.

Speaker 6 (29:38):
And what he's doing right now, and it seems like
he hasn't had that urge or that itch definitely not
to get back to college basketball.

Speaker 5 (29:44):
I think he's way done with for good reason.

Speaker 6 (29:46):
Everyone should be but he's he's he's I think he's
probably passed the NBA too.

Speaker 5 (29:52):
I think he's just past coaching. Beyond him, whole got
the first call. Though.

Speaker 6 (29:55):
Beyond him, there's a lot of good names available just
because all these good coaches just got fired. You got
Mike Brown, the King's old coach, Mike Bunholzer championship coach,
Michael Malone.

Speaker 5 (30:03):
Michael Malone Mike Bunhos are also CIA guys. Of course.

Speaker 6 (30:08):
Roger's old agency, so there will be a lot of
connections there. And Thibbs was a CIA guy, not Taylor Jenkins.
Taylor coach like Jenkins. And then there's some assistants out
there like Chris Quinn. I'm a huge fan of he's
the Miami assistant associate head coach.

Speaker 2 (30:22):
Do you think that do you think that they would
go new though, Like, that's that's the role the dice
that I don't think you would do with the Knicks
in New York.

Speaker 6 (30:32):
Look, a lot of new coaches have had success throughout
the league, like not necessarily winning championship. You know, if
Steve Kirr won a championship in his first year, Joe
Missoulu had Mossola had success.

Speaker 3 (30:41):
Former player I could see get a new start shore.

Speaker 4 (30:44):
The dude I hear in from like next people sort
of in the know or at least filing close is
Johnny Bryant as the guy. And to lay out his
whole story here, he's currently an associate head coach for
the Cavs.

Speaker 3 (30:56):
He was on the next staff the.

Speaker 4 (30:57):
Past four years and is currently a finalist for Thathoenix job.
So the theory or the connecting the dots here is
that they wanted to jump to the frontal line to
get in on Johnny Bryant before he could take the
Sun's job.

Speaker 5 (31:08):
Yeah, I saw I saw that as well.

Speaker 6 (31:09):
And Jordan Ott is also a a Cav's assistant who's
the finalist for the Phoenix job. So I think there's
there could be some truth to that to it could
be Johnny Bryant. That would be a new guy.

Speaker 5 (31:18):
Look. I think he would be a pretty good option.

Speaker 6 (31:20):
Definitely a prior relationship with those players, So I think
that would be a good option.

Speaker 5 (31:25):
But there's a lot there's a lot of names. There's
just so many names.

Speaker 3 (31:27):
Out then A Smith, Timothy Shallow, Ben still.

Speaker 6 (31:32):
Board, Yeah, let's go good bench Still after a disastrous
season of Severance.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Hey, Ben, I didn't watch Severance, but I I just
wrapped up the studio on Apple Man that is a
great show. Quick watch Seth Rogan is perfect and uh,
if you like Ntourage, you'll like it. Apple's doing some
good stuff, all right.

Speaker 5 (31:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (31:57):
They also I have a whole list of shows I
gotta watch before after.

Speaker 5 (32:01):
The NBA season ends.

Speaker 6 (32:02):
And it's well, what's what's this new show Your Friends
and Neighbors on Apple TV with with John Ham.

Speaker 3 (32:09):
Yeah, it's it's good.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
Like I'm it's one of those I fired off four
episodes and I'm stuck on like six and it's like,
all right, I get through it, but it's kind of
lost me a little bit.

Speaker 3 (32:19):
But it is.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
John Ham's is a stud and apparently he's really blessed.

Speaker 3 (32:24):
Let's just put it that way.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
Uh, don't ask me how I Howard Stern. That's what
it was. I know it from Howard Stern. I'm like,
blessed in what way? Blessed?

Speaker 1 (32:34):
You know.

Speaker 3 (32:42):
Let's keep it moving here.

Speaker 2 (32:43):
I'm an idiot, Darly Ticket, Sam Oustry Shamanard all right, boys,
we'll talk about the NBA finals. There's actually some play
on the field. Five o'clock hour, we'll get on over
to the world of baseball. Shamard's gonna stick with me.
We got Sam until five pm. Let's talk about the
NBA Finals. Nine points spread at this point in time.
Game going up on Thursday. Line movement Sam u two
thirty one down from two thirty three. I know we

(33:06):
talked about this on Monday, and UH to bring people
up to speed here, just to let you know. The
Pacers and the Knicks as high as two twenty three.
I think that was the highest total in one of
those games out of the sixth that they played.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
And in that game they went up to two fifty one.
So here's the.

Speaker 2 (33:25):
Way I'm looking at this series specifically when it comes
to scoring. I just feel like Oklahoma City is gonna
get what they want. Pacers limited on defense, and I
do think that we are going to see a ton
of action. Two thirty one is your number there. Take
a look at the team totals. One twenty for the
Okay see one ten for the Pacers. I know it's risky,
but I think it's high for a reason. I like

(33:46):
the fact that it came down. Please keep coming south, please,
I'll take the over on two thirty one. Is there
a way you're looking at the total right now? Sam,
let's start there with you.

Speaker 6 (33:56):
Yeah, and the under the under is how I'm looking
at the total, and it's it's it's keep going down,
which is interesting. And also the team total under which
I presume the Pacers team total under probably went down
a notch or two from one ten and a half
where it was yesterday. But when we discussed it, and
the big reason is because yeah, yesterday losses in wait,
what's it app?

Speaker 3 (34:16):
I see?

Speaker 2 (34:16):
Yeah, yesterday was Monday, my fault. Yeah, so it's all
running together still my bad.

Speaker 6 (34:21):
And and what the reason is because the Pacers two
losses against the Knicks, they failed to score one hundred
and ten.

Speaker 3 (34:30):
Has a move one ten is still the number. One
and a half is still the number.

Speaker 5 (34:33):
Still. I still like that under.

Speaker 6 (34:34):
That's my favorite play of game one, and it's because
Tyris Saliman doesn't doesn't know what's coming, like he just
he can look go look, go back and look at
the regular season film, and he can go back and
look at the under his previous playoffs and watch all
the film and he will obviously, until you experience that
aggressive ball pressure in a playoff setting, in an NBA
Final setting, is he doesn't know what's coming. It's completely

(34:55):
shut off the Pacers entire offense. Because when he shut off,
the Pacers offense is shut off. They need him to
get downhill and drive and kick and put the defense rotation.

Speaker 5 (35:04):
And this defense rotates and recovers so well.

Speaker 6 (35:06):
So the Thunder are gonna have a really or excuse me,
the Pacer are gonna have a really hard time scoring
against this Thunder defense. And I think Tyre's Halliburn is
gonna really struggle. His drives were way down in the
regular season against the Thunder, his shot attempts were way down,
his rim shots were way down. Everything's points were way down.
He scored four points in one of those two games
against the Thunder earlier this season, I believe, back in December.

(35:29):
So everything is just way down for Tyre's Halliburn. And
when he's not going, he's the engine for this PACER's offense.
This pace of offense isn't gonna be going. So I
don't think this pace offense is going to score easily.
So I like they're under one ten and a half.
And as we talked about yesterday. I like the thunder
to roll as well.

Speaker 3 (35:43):
Yeah, that's great. We're going to head to head on
that one. We'll have to cook up a little wager. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
Well, I got an idea. Why don't we do like
SGA style right, like no free throw, merchant free throw? No?
Like you know, he wears these baggy pants. We gotta
dress each other, Like, if you win, I'll dress you. Yeah,
we'll go to the stript shop exactly.

Speaker 3 (36:07):
Also, what was the one I was thinking of?

Speaker 2 (36:11):
Just you know, when you got to pay off a bet,
like if we take Hoosiers, you know, we got to
kick this around a little bit and we will tonight
at the f one.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
You know, the great movie Hoosiers, my all time favorite movie.

Speaker 2 (36:24):
You know, we were talking about the seventies, if I'm
not mistaken, early seventies where you know that those style
with and and you got the short shorts with the
tank top and in high white socks and the loser
has to go run on and see if they can
get in a pickup basketball game dressed up like Hoosiers.

Speaker 3 (36:41):
I like that. I think that's pretty funny.

Speaker 4 (36:43):
Sam, are you gonna recreate my Hoosiers scene for our
next I completely.

Speaker 6 (36:47):
I just was thinking that we did did we make
that bet for the next Pacer series?

Speaker 3 (36:50):
I was ready to hold up my end of the bark.

Speaker 5 (36:54):
I honestly forgot until this this moment right here. I
honestly forgot. You never texted me about it. I forgot.

Speaker 4 (37:00):
I guess we can find the receipts in the group
chat here, but I know it happened.

Speaker 3 (37:04):
What's the wager? We got to pay off? We got
to pay off? What is it?

Speaker 4 (37:07):
So? Those stakes were for the Knicks verse Pacers that
if the Knicks were to win that series, I would
recreate a New York style rap video as a social post. Wow,
Sam is going to Sam is going to do a
scene from Hoosiers, a little Jimmy Chitwood action.

Speaker 3 (37:20):
That's kind of a side nice. I know you that
like Jimmy's dad drunk. I'll come down the next lost.

Speaker 6 (37:28):
I honestly saw Who's Whosiers years ago and haven't seen
a while, so I don't know exactly who that is
and what that and.

Speaker 4 (37:35):
Recreated maybe the measure in the basket that might be
the that's probably the best you want. You want have
to dig through the archives for that, but yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:44):
All right, back to the NBA Finals again with the
number that is, as far as wagering on this series
just way too expensive, Schampannader is they're a way you're
looking to get involved with this series.

Speaker 3 (37:56):
The series as a whole.

Speaker 4 (37:57):
Yes, I do like the over the games over five
and a half is I believe where the number is
sitting at for this one here, I think the Pacers
are going to give a better run for the money
than sam Ostrian. A lot of people are giving them
credit here, and in fact, I'll take this step further.
I like Pacers money line for Game one that I
do think of it. I think it's a punch in
the face. Wow, put it lord, So you want to
know my basketball sick. I don't know what you guys

(38:19):
are doing watching TV shows, but I did watch the
Pacers verse Thunder regular season matchup last night. There was
nothing on TV, and I for some reason it was on.
So shout out to the NBA take for that.

Speaker 3 (38:28):
They do a good job with that.

Speaker 2 (38:29):
Yeah, they was at the game one or Game two,
because Game one was the day after Christmas.

Speaker 4 (38:33):
Now I watched the full one of that, saw a
little bit of the second one as well.

Speaker 3 (38:36):
They played them back to them four points.

Speaker 4 (38:38):
Yeah, and my takeaway from that game is that Indiana
Pacers team looked nothing like the Indiana Past Pacers team
that we've seen a break here, like they got a
backcourt violation with thirty seconds left to go in that
game at that point when it was a five point game,
like it was a two point game with a minute
and a half to go in that matchup there, I
don't think it was as much of a gap now
to the same point.

Speaker 3 (38:57):
The Thunder have gotten better as well, for sure a
little bit.

Speaker 4 (39:00):
This is where stylistically, I think it breaks down. I
think we're gonna see a lot of his own defense
from this Pacers team, and I think they're gonna live
and die with lou Dort and Alex Caruso shooting three pointers.

Speaker 3 (39:08):
That's what I think they're gonna sell out.

Speaker 4 (39:09):
The counter to this, I think Indiana's defense is better
than a lot of people will giving them credit. And
their defenders can also fill it up that Aaron Nasmith
Andrew Nemhard, those guys can get red hot. Not quite
the case with Alex Caruso and lou Dort there that
I think that's gonna be the clear focus. It's easier
said than done, there's no doubt about it. But I
do think this Pacers team is different than they were
in the regular season. Then we saw them. Then these

(39:30):
teams faced early on and they are gonna give them
a run for their money.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
Issue is it's just like it won't surprise me, And
I told Sam this yesterday that it will not surprise
me if it does play out in five games the
way that December game did. Now, again, the points spread
per game is at nine. You're at nine points spread.
So I'm not gonna sit here and tell to take
OKAYC minus nine, right, But it won't surprise me that

(39:53):
if it's a competitive game, back and forth, fourth quarter comes,
defense prevails in Oklahoma City, Thunder win by an average
margin of six points in five games.

Speaker 6 (40:03):
So I watched that first Pacers Thunder game two, I
went back and watched that in the regular season, and
you're right that this Pacers team is completely different.

Speaker 5 (40:10):
Like that was certainly a takeaway.

Speaker 6 (40:11):
The Spacer's team is completely different, and it's impressive how
far they've come. It's also true, though that Tyre Saliburton
struggled because those are some of the best individual defenders
that will see all seasons, sure, and he hasn't faced
defenders like that who they can just throw so many
different guys in them, Lou dort Auxcruso, Cason Wallace, Jalen Williams,
all of them. They can just throw them at there,
at him, and and he hasn't faced that type of defense.

Speaker 5 (40:35):
All playoff run.

Speaker 6 (40:36):
And also chet Holmgan didn't play in those two games
against the Pacers during the regular season, which is a
big difference.

Speaker 5 (40:42):
So yeah, I don't disagree with you.

Speaker 6 (40:44):
The Pacers are gonna go zone and they could have
some success just throwing everything at Shay and Jalen Williams. Yeah,
for me, it's all about the Thunders defense though, because yes,
Aaron Smith and Andrew Nemmer and all those guys, Andrew.

Speaker 5 (40:55):
NEvAr are shart poorly last series.

Speaker 6 (40:56):
Of course, Aarony Smith has been shooting great from three
throughout this playoff run. The Pacers are shooting forty percent
from three though, because they're averaging twenty one wide open
three point attempts per game. Yeah, that's that's the They
have the number one wide open three point frequency in
the entire NBA playoffs. The reason for that is because
they're getting downhill so easily, and the point of attack

(41:17):
defense that they've played, whether it's the Knicks or the
Caves or the Bucks, throughout this playoff run, they've been poor,
poor point of attack defenses. It's a completely different story.
The Pacers create those threes by getting downhill and getting
in the lane.

Speaker 5 (41:30):
And through their drives.

Speaker 6 (41:31):
Those drives are gonna be shut off because the thunders
defense is that good and they rotate them orcover that well.

Speaker 5 (41:35):
So those threes are gonna be way more difficult threes.

Speaker 6 (41:37):
They're not gonna be nearly as open, and that percentages
from three is gonna go way down because of that.
So I don't I don't buy ie this Pacer offense
is gonna have a lot of success against the Thunder.
And that's why I think it's gonna be the Thunders
defense that take care of business in Game one and
throughout the whole series.

Speaker 5 (41:51):
And that's why I got I Gotta go and five.

Speaker 4 (41:53):
Yeah, I mean, it's certainly not gonna be easy. I'm
not gonna undersell that by any means. I do think
Indiana's gonna play a lot of Haliburton off ball as
sort of a little bit of a counter too. I
think Naysmith probably steps up his or probably Nemhard honestly
is more of a primary creator, and that's sort of
the counter for stopping Halliburton from just getting swallowed up.
Now the obvious kind of concern there, It's not like
Halliburton is this quick release guy that you can run

(42:14):
pin downs to create looks for him. He's got that
unique look that like is problematic there. But I do
think you can combat that in a little bit by
getting him off ball, running screens, getting him cutting ways
like that that I think they'll explore a ton throughout
the series. There's no doubt that this Thunder defense is legit.
They have bodies after bodies. But I do think that,
like offensively, this Pacers team has more ways in which

(42:34):
they can score and Shaggilds Alexander is sort of the
trump card here that you put him in any isolation
situation which he will still get plenty. He's gonna get
his He's gonna score thirty plus points in most of
these games in this series. But I just think, like,
once again, I don't know what Indiana has to do
to get a little bit more respect for who they
are as a basketball team.

Speaker 3 (42:51):
These numbers do.

Speaker 4 (42:52):
Feel disrespectful from a betting perspective to me.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
They know that, Yeah, but the whole public is on
the Pacers. That's the issue.

Speaker 3 (43:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (43:01):
I mean like as Zim taking that as like a
reason to not believe in them.

Speaker 2 (43:06):
No, my point is like, all right, the numbers are
the numbers, like they set the numbers, and if everybody
was believing in Oklahoma City, then they would be even
more inflated. But here we are still holding at nine
with eighty percent of the money coming in on the Pacers.

Speaker 6 (43:18):
But it's like, what are you gonna do throwing Oklahoma
City minus seven hundred?

Speaker 3 (43:22):
Right? Right?

Speaker 5 (43:22):
That's that's I'm talking about the serious price.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
I'm talking about the I'm talking about points spread more
than anything with nine and and and that does tell me, yeah,
this is going to be a beatdown.

Speaker 3 (43:32):
I'm not here to argue that.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
And there is a little part of me that believes
that the Pacers are being disrespected. But also, dude, you
said it, Sean, this is one of the best defensive
teams we've ever seen ever. I and and on the
flip side, the one thing that I took away watching
the Pacers and the Knicks.

Speaker 3 (43:47):
Was that Oklahoma City might score two hundred niggas.

Speaker 6 (43:51):
And for the wrong about the pace. I picked against
the Pacers every series. Finally they just beat a healthy,
mixed team, so they finally earned my respect. But this
isn't about the Pacers. This is not me disrespecting the
Pacers at all. I have the utmost respect for how
they play. Sounds like it all credit. This is all

(44:13):
credit the historically great Thunder defense and based on net
rating a historically great Thunder team that is just doesn't
matter who they play from the East, West, whatever, the
Thunder We're gonna win the NBA Championship. I've been saying
it all year, and I have no doubt that it's
gonna happen against the Pacers' series. So it's more about
the Thunder than is the Pacers. There's one more point.

Speaker 5 (44:32):
The Pacers whole.

Speaker 6 (44:33):
Play style is pace, right like pace, pascete pace. That's
what we know this Pacers team as they play really fast.
The Thunder actually have played with a faster pace this
playoffs than the Pacers. So like the Thunder do everything
the Pacers do, they just do it better. And from
the turnover perspective, from the force turnover perspective, everything, it
all favors the Thunder, and I just I don't really see.

Speaker 5 (44:54):
A path where like I saw I saw it last series.

Speaker 6 (44:56):
Even though I picked against the Pacers, I saw the
path where they could beat the.

Speaker 4 (44:59):
Next negative zero chance, I believe It'll say, I think
you said negative zero chance of the Pacers beating the
Nicks there, I said.

Speaker 6 (45:05):
All right, Mark, Mark Henry loves to bring this up.
I said negative chance in the group chat, my official lord,
my official pick with nix and seven.

Speaker 5 (45:14):
So it's not like I gave the Pacers no chance.

Speaker 4 (45:16):
True, you did say seven plus to set the record
straight on the public betting stuff right now, So this
just for game one. Here, this courtesy of DraftKings Network
DraftKings betting splits right here. Yeah, on the money line,
the Thunder are fifty one percent of the bets and
thirty five percent of the betting handle.

Speaker 3 (45:32):
Changed a little bit, the spread.

Speaker 4 (45:33):
The minus nine in favor of the Thunder thirty eight
percent of the bets, fifty eight percent of the handle.
So Pacers are forty two percent of the handle sixty
two percent of the bets.

Speaker 3 (45:41):
So not that crazy.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
No, Yeah, we've definitely had some shifting over the last
day or so. Could call on that one. Wait to
correct a record there, Shavi. Alright, it made me look
like an app kid. Good job, doesn't take much. All right, Hey, Sam,
we'll see you in a little bit down at the
F one RK looking forward to race and my friend,
uh quick one though. You are a Phillies guy. Phillies
headed north through the border. You ever been to Canada?

Speaker 5 (46:03):
Yeah? I had been to Montreal.

Speaker 3 (46:05):
How did it go? What'd you do?

Speaker 5 (46:07):
Well?

Speaker 3 (46:07):
Were you up there for work?

Speaker 2 (46:08):
You don't want to know what I did from Miami
City to Montreal?

Speaker 5 (46:13):
Nineteen years old?

Speaker 3 (46:14):
Sam doesn't all nineteen.

Speaker 5 (46:16):
Asian in Montreal is eighteen. So we went we were nineteen.

Speaker 2 (46:19):
Sam's also a coach. I didn't know this too. I
didn't coach coaches some kids.

Speaker 5 (46:24):
You wouldn't say, like a title of mind as a coach.
But I volunteered. I volunteer coach.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
Yes, yeah, we didn't know that. We're learning more and more.
He likes to hang out on boats in Miami. He
went to Montreal when he was nineteen. He coaches kids.
Sam Astrey read.

Speaker 3 (46:36):
Him at the store.

Speaker 5 (46:37):
Those three.

Speaker 2 (46:40):
All right, named the Phillies player that got stuck at
the border and for what reason off the top of
your head, go.

Speaker 5 (46:46):
If one did?

Speaker 2 (46:47):
Or yeah yeah yeah yeah hypothetical yeah yeah yeah, we
had JT. They were questioning about January sixth that's old,
tired and used. People were, I would say, strong one
just going again. You guys are just going off.

Speaker 3 (47:02):
For the sheer.

Speaker 6 (47:02):
Look wow, look looks just like let's stop this guy.
Give him a little check next to check. Actually, story
for another day. I got stopped coming back into America
from Montreal.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
Really wow, how don't we save that for a Thursday story? Yes,
got Thursday story time.

Speaker 6 (47:19):
Order coming back from from Canada to month, from Montreal
back to Philip.

Speaker 3 (47:22):
I love it.

Speaker 6 (47:23):
So it's a hell of a story I can tell
now because I'm I'm way past twenty one, all right,
hell of us? Wow?

Speaker 2 (47:29):
Okay, well, I can't wait to hear this one. Sammy
breaking the law back in the day. It's all right, nikid,
all right, he's gonna join me in studio on Thursday.
Looking forward to that, of course, Game one NBA Finals
taking place Thursday evening. DraftKings sportsbook showing ok see nine
point favorite Sam, we will see you at the F
one Arcade five o'clock hour.

Speaker 3 (47:45):
On the other side, John and I's gonna hang with me.
We got a lot to discuss.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
We'll stay with the New York Knicks discussion, and again
people want to get involved. Love to hear some opinions
on this, because with Tom Thibodeaux being fired today, the
question that I had Sean Bnard for the people out
there was firing Fibbs the right move or is this
possibly a mistake the Knicks will regret and that when
you answer that question, will they regret firing Tom Thibodeau.

(48:14):
I think it's pretty easy to come up with that
answer on the right way, and then you kind of
find out, like, all right, maybe that led them in
this direction of moving on. We'll talk more about, of course,
the Knicks firing Tom Thibodeau and whether or not Jay
Wright picked up the phone's to daily take it.

Speaker 3 (48:29):
Five o'clock hour. On the other side,