Breaking the Silence: Unmasking Mental Health in the Field of Duty - Amanda Coleman

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Throughout our lives, we've looked to our heroes in law enforcement, firefighting, and emergency medical services for protection and safety. Yet, we seldom stop to think about the silent battles they fight within themselves due to the heavy emotional toll of their job. This episode uncovers the stark truth about the mental health struggles and addiction issues faced by our first responders and veterans, spotlighting the formidable work of Amanda Coleman, the founder of Irish Angel.

Amanda's passion and commitment to supporting those who shield us daily is nothing short of inspiring. Her non-profit, Irish Angel, serves as a powerful support network for individuals who bear the brunt of trauma and stress in their line of work. Through candid discussions about the macho culture prevalent in these professions, we shed light on the often-ignored mental health issues that plague these communities. We also discuss how the emotional weight of the job can lead to addiction, depression, and a high rate of suicide among first responders. Amanda's unwavering dedication to this cause is a testament to the power of compassion, resilience, and the capacity of the human spirit to heal.

But the conversation doesn't end there. We delve into the uniquely challenging world of doctors, particularly those in the cosmetic field, exploring the immense emotional labor entailed in their profession. Amanda shares her own experiences, providing a raw and real insight into the pressures, expectations, and the often overlooked emotional toll that this profession takes on its practitioners. This episode is a must-listen if you've ever wondered what it's like on the other side of the siren and the scalpel. Join us as we navigate the often unseen struggles of those who selflessly serve and protect us, reminding us all of the power of listening, empathy, and understanding.

Contact Amanda Coleman at: 
Website: https://irishangel.org/
Linkedin: Irish Angel Inc
Instagram: @blue_irish_angel
Facebook: https://facebook.com/IrishAngelinc

Tweet me @realdrhamrah
IG @drhamrah

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:03):
All right, welcome everyone to the Darihammer
podcast, to another amazingepisode with an amazing human
being.
So this podcast is very goingto be very inspiring.
It means a lot to me personallybecause of what I went through

(00:24):
as a first responder, especiallywhen I was in training as a
resident at Jackson MemorialHospital and other hospitals
like Chicago and Boston, so wewill delve into stories of
resilience, empowerment andchange.
Today we have an amazing guest.
Like I said, she's a beacon ofsupport for the unsung heroes

(00:48):
amongst us the law enforcementofficers, firefighters,
dispatchers, emergency medicalservices providers and military
veterans who face uniquechallenges on and off duty.
Our guest today is the veryAmanda Coleman, also known as
Irish Angel, passionate founderof Irish Angel, a nonprofit that

(01:12):
serves the powerful supportnetwork for these brave
individuals.
Amanda's commitment toprotecting our protectors has
garnered her organization over300,000 followers and
connections on social media.
Her mission to tackle growingrates of post traumatic stress,
mental health issues andaddiction within these

(01:34):
communities.
She does this remarkable worknot for applause, but because
she truly believes in givingback to those who give so much
to us every single day.
Irish Angel not only offersaccess to essential services and
counseling, but also provideseducation, funding and resources

(01:56):
to help those struggling tofind their way back to healing.
With chapters across the UnitedStates and a vision that's
continuously expanding, amanda'sdedication is making an impact
on countless lives.
She's a testament to the powerof compassion and resilience.
So let's dive into her journey,her challenges and her

(02:20):
unwavering commitment to thosewho protect us.
Please join me in welcomingAmanda.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Great to be here.
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Thanks, amanda.
So it means this again.
Like I said in an intro, thismeans a lot to me just because I
was affected from a lot ofthese issues for many years in
training, where today I'm ableto, as a result of what I went

(02:52):
through in the past.
I was able today to go througha lot of stresses in
professional and personal lives,in my personal life.
But many of us don't come outof stressful situations strong
and many of us don't know thatthere is help.
Many of us don't know how tocope with it because of the

(03:18):
stigma that's attached to thisissue, where it's usually
perceived as weakness.
I remember when I was a resident, I never wanted to talk about
it because I didn't want to beperceived as a weak person.
I didn't want it to affect mycareer negatively.
So I basically, like I was told, I sucked it up like a man.

(03:44):
But there was days in my career, in my early career, when I was
in training, that I didn't knowhow I could survive the next
day.
I just didn't.
I had no answer.
It got to a point I got sotired thinking about it that the

(04:09):
time just passed while I wasthinking about it and then the
next day was already there.
It's almost like just take onefoot in front of the other and
don't even worry about the thirdstep.
And what I'm talking about hereis our issues, that there are

(04:30):
studies, and I want you to shareyour experience with us.
Also, just for the audience toknow the context we're talking
about, about PTSD, which ispost-traumatic stress disorder
and depression, that isestimated that 30% of first
responders develop these typesof behavioral health conditions,
compared to less than 20% in ageneral population, so that's a

(04:54):
pretty significant difference.
Statistically.
It's pretty significant.
You know, I read about a whitepaper on mental health and
suicide of first responders,which was dated 2018, that more

(05:15):
firefighters and police officersdied by suicide than in the
line of duty in 2017.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
And it's been consecutively with law
enforcement, in particular forthe last two years.
It's been the same.

Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, and this is pre-COVID, by the way.
I just don't.
I'm scared to ask about thenumber during COVID, like the
2020 number.
I don't want to know.
To be honest, an anxiety morecommon amongst first responders.
You know it's obviously due tothe high stress nature of the
work, so I want a minute.

(05:52):
So, first of all, welcome again, and please tell me how does
your organization approachsupporting the first responders
law enforcement, firefighters,dispatchers, ems providers,
veterans to translate to theunique pressures and stresses
faced by healthcareprofessionals, like, how do you
guys do it?
If you can help understand ouraudience, understand how you

(06:17):
guys approach it and how youcame about to create this
foundation?
Just so we have some context.

Speaker 2 (06:26):
Yeah, so back in 2015 , we were having trouble.
Obviously, I'm from Ireland andhopefully you can understand me
.
Your audience.
But, I'll try to keep it, keepit, keep it slow, but yeah, so
we were going through our ownstuff in Ireland and it was
impacting our law enforcementmassively and I have family in

(06:50):
law enforcement and I was reallybothered by it and I wanted to
take the social media just toshow support for them because
there was so much hatred towardsthem.
And my cousin was like no, hesays we don't have it as bad as
America.
He said you need to see what'shappening in America.
So he said police officers arebeing ambushed in their cars
while they're sitting havinglunch and I was like nah, can't

(07:12):
be.
Like America is big carry guns,our police officers don't.
So I'm like how can that be?
And I did the research and Iwas absolutely devastated by
seeing what I was seeing.
I just took to LinkedIn postand messages of support, not
even thinking it would make itto the United States, and it did

(07:36):
.
And a SWAT team actually inyour hometown now Virginia got
together and they gave me anhonorary call sign which was
Irish Angel and that's beautiful.
Yeah, it's great.
So I used that and I turned itinto.
I created a website that wasusername and password.
It was a safe haven for them togo and talk amongst themselves

(07:58):
and to invite the families on aswell.
We would just share, like we doon LinkedIn today, just sharing
news, relevant topics, mentalhealth stuff, the fallen heroes,
all that kind of stuff.
But it was an open forum so wecould see the conversations, and
in doing that, I too personallyhave had repeated trauma since

(08:19):
I was a child till 10 years agoand aside from that, my mom
suffered with PTS because ofgrief and her PTS sadly brought
her to abuse and alcohol andprescription meds and that and
so on, and then she developedsomething called parapsychosis

(08:40):
and so I have a clearunderstanding of addiction.
I have a clear understanding oftrauma, and so I was watching
the conversations on our forumback and forth and with the
families and what have you.
It was triggering things in meand I was like this is an issue,
this is a problem.
So I did research, just likeyou, on the suicides.

(09:03):
I knew the suicides was high inthe veteran community, but I
didn't realize just how highthey were climbing up there
within the first respondercommunity too.
So I spoke with a friend a goodfriend of mine is a sheriff in
Schenectady, new York and he waslike Angel, you've got all this
following, now what do you wantto do?
And I was like I can't reallydo anything.

(09:24):
I'm not from America.
He said.
No, he said, but I am.
He said I believe in you.
He said and I believe in yourpassion.
He said do the research andwe'll start at 501.
So we did that was in.
We got our letter ofdetermination in December 2019.
And so we I went around, didsome research on how we could

(09:48):
actually help people.
I did not want to just beanother raise awareness kind of
an organization and not thatthere's anything wrong with that
, but I I'm very much aboutbeing proactive and helping
people, and especially those whoare leaving their families
every single day to go and takeon everybody else's traumas and

(10:10):
everybody else's problems, andyou know so I respect them.
So I went around treatmentfacilities that cater to first
responders and I was like, well,how can, if I start this
nonprofit, how can we help?
So the consensus was that ifyou're a first responder, a lot

(10:31):
of the time they're sent out ofstate for treatment, because
they don't want to put them in aposition where they're with
people they may have arrested orthey may go into altercations
with or whatever, and so they goout of state for treatment and
a lot of the time, if someone isin crisis, so is their finances

(10:52):
, and so they can't alwaysafford the travel expenses when
it comes to going to get thetreatment.
And so I was like right, that'swhere we need to start, you
know, helping, and we were notwithout our headaches too, when
we got the 501, because we gotthat in December and we were
launching in Boston in March2020 and COVID hit, and so we

(11:16):
were hit with that.
That put a spanner in the works.
And then, sadly, there was theriots, which that had a profound
impact on nonprofits, thathelped law enforcement and,
because it wasn't that, peopledidn't want to invest in us,
they were afraid of what wouldhappen to their businesses, and
so we just kind of had to takeit back seat, and I was glad

(11:39):
that we did that, because, youknow, I think everything happens
either for a lesson or ablessing, and for us, I think it
was a bit of both, because itallowed us to develop our
network our resources and getmore educated on stuff and put
together a good team.
And so we did.
And now we.

(12:00):
What we do as a whole for thecompany is we help send people
for treatment.
So we don't have a hotline forIrish Angel, but we do have
people because we're soprominent on social media.
People trust us.
Our board is built of servicemembers, past and present, so
they're able and they all haveexperienced trauma or addiction.

(12:24):
So this is a labor of love forall of us and none of us take a
wage.
We all do it because we havehard for doing it and so we have
different members of the teamthat they're very educated in,
not just the field of mentalhealth but the living, living

(12:47):
that daily.
So people, when people reachout to us, they know they're
going to talk to.
They call them brothers orsisters right, they're going to
talk to someone who has been ontheir level.
So they do reach out to usquite a lot for help and when
they do, we then have amazingresources that we go to.
We have gotten some people helpwithin it.

(13:08):
Within it was 20 minutes.
We got someone in New York somehelp and so we could have
helped to someone from 20minutes to 24 hours, no matter
where you are in the States, butthat's again for that time.
We just built up our resourcesand the medical professionals

(13:29):
around us to be able to helpthem.
So that's what we do.
We fund people to go fortreatment and then if a
treatment is not covered underinsurance and insurance
companies are a bit of anightmare, to be perfectly
honest because they agree tojust say, for instance, someone
needs six weeks treatment theywill agree to the six weeks

(13:50):
treatment and then if thatindividual is doing well two
weeks in, they'll pull thefunding from it.
You'll say they're doing okay,they need to go home now.
So we try to help with that.
But thankfully, the resourcesthat we work with also work with
other nonprofits and we canpull together to be able to help
them all stay in treatment whenwe can.
So we do as much as we can tohelp them all.

(14:12):
Plus, we go around to differentdepartments that don't have
funding and be able to talkabout peer to peer, to talk
about crisis intervention, totalk about resources we have
available for people and to showpeople that it's okay to not be
okay.
And Scott normally comes anddoes the training with us and

(14:34):
Scott's my vice president andhe's a former assistant chief in
Alabama and he has been throughthe wars and back again and so
he is very passionate abouthelping.
So we go around and we go tothose departments that don't
have the funding to be able toeducate them on certain things.
Because the key, the fundamentalkey and this is why I'm so in

(14:58):
awe of you the fundamental keyis to have someone who is in
that position of power right,who has been in that position
and understands it, to haveexperienced trauma and to have
experienced that not okaysituation you know and you've
lived through it and you comeout the other side of that.

(15:19):
To have that taught down topeople beneath them not beneath
them, wrong word, but people wholook up to them basically is a
huge thing, because that's thefundamental key to reach and get
people to reach out and lettingthem know it's okay to have
these difficult conversations.
We all need to have them.
We're all human beings, nomatter what side of the

(15:43):
profession that you're on.
Nobody and I mean absolutelynobody in this world is exempt
from mental health issues orfrom having trauma in their
lives.
We all process traumadifferently, you know.
So trauma is trauma.
It doesn't matter whether I've.
I think you know my story, butmy story was like a complete

(16:08):
note or cluster of a life.
But versus somebody who youmight think has an insignificant
trauma, it's not that at all.
It's how we process it and howwe deal with it right.
When you and I just discussedthis before, we jumped on about
using that like we're kind of arare breed in many ways because
we utilized our trauma and weturned it into our superpower

(16:31):
right, and so that drives us towhere we are today.
So I am in awe of you as adoctor, thank you.
You're now saying about yourtrauma.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
Well, I appreciate your kind words.
You know it's.
I feel that we come to a placein our lives where we start
developing so much compassionand empathy for the ones that
have gone through similar traumaand similar hardships in their

(17:00):
lives than we have, and there'snothing more compelling than
wanting to help these people,because, especially when you see
people that mean a lot to you,like friends or family, who
don't come out the other sidestronger, it starts with them
where it raises awareness inyour mind like oops, I guess

(17:24):
it's.
You know, not everybody is ableto come out stronger from the
other side, and maybe we should.
And then, obviously, naturally,what I do I try talking to them
, try to basically help them bysharing my experience, how I did
it.
Maybe they can use it as a toolto first of all have known

(17:49):
someone that has done it andthen also get receive a tool
that helps them to come out ofit and not getting crushed,
because I feel a lot of times itis the lack of perspective that
crushes people, when they thinkthe world has come to an end

(18:10):
and there is no door they canget through.
There is no way they can comeout of this, however miserable
situation it is and they justdon't see a way.
And for someone to show themthe way.
I mean to me that's the verypurpose of humanity, where

(18:31):
people are supposed to help eachother because without each
other we don't have a world.
And when people realize thatwithout each other for example,
the stories that you said aboutpeople ambushing police officers
and responders just becausethey're upset about whatever

(18:54):
news came out the day before andit's terrible because I mean,
think of it what is the firstthing we do when we feel
threatened?
What three numbers do we dial?

Speaker 2 (19:06):
Exactly.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
And to ambushing those people because of a story
you got wrong or your emotionsgot the better of you.
It just doesn't make sense andI feel it's also.
We live in a society where themedia has so much power, and
just to sell eyeballs theycreate these dramatic stories

(19:28):
and exaggerations.
They influence people just sothey can sell eyeballs.
What they don't realize is thatthey're threatening the very
people that help them when theirhouse is on fire, when their
child got lost or kidnapped,when they got in an accident or
when there is a burglar in theirhouse.

(19:48):
And so this is just such a lackof perspective.
It does make me upset.
It just makes me sad thatpeople have the especially in
the media the audacity to claimthese stories true and create
this turmoil and this justhatred towards our first

(20:13):
responders.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
And that has a profound impact on the first
person.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
Of course, like for you guys, like you said, it was
an issue with funding afterthose protests.
You know, like people, I knowpeople hated first responders
and especially officers, andthere's good and bad in every
profession and that's whatpeople need to realize.
I mean, that's the nature ofthe beast, but that doesn't mean

(20:43):
you get to just attack someonethat you don't even know that
could actually be the one thatwould save your life one day.
Think of it that way.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
So people forget as well that they're human beings.
Yes, they have a job to do, butthey're human beings.
They feel just like you and I.
They feel they bleed the same,they get hurt, they have family
issues just as we have.
And, funny thing, they probablyhave worse ones.
Because when you work and you'llget this as well from your

(21:17):
profession when you're working,as on the front line, and you
are seeing, you're going to ascene where you've just had to
tell someone that their childwas dead, you had to pick a
little girl up or a little boyup who's been raped.
I mean, you associate.
The automatic thing is toassociate your children with
those children, and that is oneof the number one things that a

(21:39):
police officer in general or afirefighter or an EMS worker
will tell you.
They automatically associatetheir own children with that
child and that has a horribleimpact on them.
So if they're seeing, ifthey're going to different
scenes every night or every dayor whatever the shift is,
they're on and they're goinghome and then, just with family

(22:03):
life your wife has a little nagat you or your husband has a
little nag at you it's going toescalate, right, or either
escalate or you'll shut down.
And when you shut down or if youescalate it, it's just more
drama, it's more just layeringit on top of you.
It's just you know it's awful.
So I try my best.

(22:24):
We share new stories on oursocial media, about cops in
particular, just because we wantto educate the people that you
know what.
Ask yourself could you do thisjob and be okay?
You know?

Speaker 1 (22:40):
I could tell you I couldn't.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
Yeah, I couldn't do it.

Speaker 1 (22:44):
No, no, no, because especially, I've seen what they
have done and the things theyhave done when I was working at
the trauma center and I justcouldn't do it.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
Yeah, and you see what comes through your doors,
right, they're seeing the scenes.
They're seeing the people thatis at the scene, the trauma that
they're experiencing, and thesad thing about it is that law
enforcement and the firstresponder community it's a very
macho industry, right, they'vegot egos because they have to

(23:20):
right, they have to come acrosslike it doesn't affect them.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
Authoritarian.

Speaker 2 (23:26):
And even to their brothers and sisters.
They won't say it affects them,but they'll go home and that's
how they turn to addiction.
They will drink, they will takesleeping meds, they will do
whatever they can just to tryand drown out the noise you know
.

Speaker 1 (23:39):
It's a very principle that you can't sustain faking
something long term.
You can do it once or twice,but these people have to almost
fake an unnatural strength andpower.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (23:54):
Even, like you said, in front of their families, just
so that they show a little bitof weakness because they're
perceived as this powerfulauthority.
Yes, and I can relate to that,because I remember when I was a
resident, there was times whereI was under so much stress that

(24:17):
I went to the bathroom.
I had two pagers on me and awalkie-talkie.
I was receiving every traumathat would come in from the city
of Miami and Dade County.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
Right.

Speaker 1 (24:29):
And for two months I had those things strapped on me
every day and it got to a pointwhere everything was beep.
I went to the bathroom.
After like waiting six hours togo to the bathroom, I just
didn't get to it.
But then I said I can't, I wasin pain because I had to go to

(24:50):
the bathroom.
So I went to the bathroom.
Every beeper, every radio,every phone on me was ringing at
once.

Speaker 2 (24:59):
Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
And then I was trying to figure out which one to pick
up first and then somethingshut down in me and I remember I
said, fuck it, I can't do this.
And I put my hands on my faceand I just started crying and I

(25:22):
was in the bathroom, the doorwas locked and I don't know how
much time passed by and theserings and everything, they
became very distant and then,once they stopped because they
stopped all of a sudden it got.
I snapped out of it and justthat.
I don't know how many minutesthat was that I was crying.

(25:43):
It just was a relief, the sortof relief where I said, okay,
you know what?
And I just got a grip of myself.
I said, okay, one miracle at atime, daria.
So let's see what these beepsare beeping for.
So I walk out of the bathroom.
The bathroom was in the traumacenter.
The nurses came to me where areyou?

(26:04):
Where have you been?
I said I was just in thebathroom.
So I came out and it wasbasically a mass casualty.
It was a inmate bus on I-95 hadflipped over and there was like
16 inmates.
They got ejected from that busand all of them were coming via,

(26:27):
some of them by helicopter.
So we're watching on TV.
The scene was live.
It was live on TV and all I wasthinking is like, okay, how
many people are we Like we don'thave enough people.
So I started running to otherERs.
I got every intern, everymedical student.
I said you come with me now.

(26:47):
And the attendings were askingwhat are you doing?
I said we have a mass casualty,I need hands, because my chief
resident and the attending thatwere in the operating room
dealing with a liver laceration.
So it was me, two medicalstudents, one intern and two
trauma nurses and one armyphysician who was in training,

(27:10):
because the army sent always themilitary sent their residents
to us for training because wewere such a big trauma center.
So basically, all of a sudden,this calmness went to me where I
just went.
Literally it was like in mybrain everything turned into an

(27:33):
orchestra.
I said you do this now.
You do that, just all pragmatic.
Five minutes before that Ididn't have an answer.
I thought I'm just going toflush the toilet and I'm going
to go down that flush, I'm justgoing to disappear.
I can't do this.
I always use that moment in mylife as an anchor whenever I get

(27:55):
in a high stress situationwhere I'm like I don't have an
answer right now, I don't knowhow I'm going to get out of this
.
I use that moment and thiscalmness comes through me.
But I do know that noteverybody necessarily has that
ability and that experience.
That whoever Angel was sittingon my shoulder that night helped

(28:17):
me to overcome that.
I know that not everybodynecessarily is that lucky and
for me that moment serves as ananchor to every hardship in my
life to overcome it, because Iknow I did that and I always
tell myself if I can do that, Ican do anything.

(28:40):
Because this topic is soimportant to me, because I
couldn't talk to anybody aboutthe issues, because the stigma
that was attached to what wewent through was perceived as a
complain, as weakness, and youwanted to make sure they don't
kick you out and you graduate.
That was the pressure that wason you.

(29:01):
You didn't want to be thelaughingstock of the hospital
and you definitely couldn't goto your chief residence because
they were like, kind of like theattitude.
I went through the same crap,so you better shut up or you're
out, or worse, even you wouldget an extra call.

(29:22):
So we're already post-called.
You had to sit for another call.
So now you didn't sleep for 36hours and so that pressure was
on you.
So you didn't dare to talk toanyone about it and no one
talked to each other even aboutit.
Because we thought maybe if yousay to one person, the other

(29:43):
person is going to talk about usto our superior and then
they're going to think we'relike a wuss or a wimp.
So we didn't want to have thaton us and that was crushing
really.
I mean now thinking back, Idefinitely was suffering,
definitely from anxiety.
I mean, even today, when I heara beeper going on, it's like

(30:07):
Pavlov, right, it's a trigger.
I get anxiety.
But I was depressed because Icouldn't talk to anybody about
it.
So I had to internalizeeverything and the only reason
why I came out of it stronger isbecause of my personality.
I'm very stubborn and I'm verydetermined.

(30:30):
So my determination was I knewPromised Land is outside of
those four walls.
All I had to do is finish thesefour years and then I'm done.
So I did it for a purpose.
So I saw the light at the endof the tunnel.
But many people do not have alight, do not see a light at the

(30:50):
end of the tunnel.
And I think of myself if thatwas the case, I probably
wouldn't have made it.
The only thing that motivatedme was that little light at the
end of the tunnel, and thecloser I would get to it, the
more motivated it would make me.
So I want you to share yourthoughts on how this type of
stress and burnout experiencedby doctors and mainly surgical

(31:13):
residents in hospital, whichmany don't know, that a lot of
the work in the hospital isbeing done by the residents and
there are doctors but there arestill residents in training, but
they do all the legwork, allthe hard work, all the dirty
work and how that might mirrorwhat you guys do and how you

(31:39):
guys serve the first responders,and have you thought of
creating a support system forthose residents and interns in
hospitals?

Speaker 2 (31:54):
Absolutely, and in many ways we already do, because
we never turn anybody away.
A lot of our police officerswho follow us, their wives for
nurses, so you'll get a lot ofmedical people coming through as
well.
So I mean, we turn nobody away.
If someone reached out to usfor help, we won't go to them.

(32:16):
No, you're not a cop or you'renot a first responder.
We will make sure that we tryto get the best care to them
that we can.
We collaborate with some of themost amazing organizations,
which is one is Kadia Health.
I'm sure you know them.

Speaker 1 (32:32):
Yes, of course.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
Yeah, so they have a phenomenal first responder
program.
It's headed by two formerchiefs of police, very dear
friends of mine, bill Mazer andJoe Collins, both incredible
human beings, and they do a lotcentered around wellness for the

(32:55):
hospital community, likedoctors, nurses.
They even do pilots.
They do all professional, allanybody, I think, who has a high
pressure job or is involvedwith the public.
Because, as much as we love thepublic, public are nasty
sometimes.
You know they're not yourfriends a lot of the time and so

(33:19):
the people are put in awkwardsituations, stressful situations
, so they cater for everybody.
So they are an amazing tool foryour arsenal and I would
totally suggest to have thoseguys go out and talk with you or
departments, hospitaldepartments but yes, absolutely,

(33:40):
we would happily put theresidents and nurses, doctors
and what have you on there,because the professionals they
need their help and they're theones that the professional field
, I think professional field is,because you have to maintain a
certain level of diplomacy andhow you act around people and

(34:07):
you have that authority overpeople.
They believe that they can showthat weakness, they have to be
vulnerable and they have to knowthat it's okay to be vulnerable
, because being vulnerable isthe strongest thing that you can
ever do, because it's the firststep to you getting the help
that you need when you need it.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
Isn't that true?
Isn't that true?
And isn't that ironic that ourvery bosses, so to speak, they
say that's a sign of weakness,and they say this is only for
people with thick skin, and ifyou're not made out of thick
skin, there is no place for youhere.
What do you have to say to that?

Speaker 2 (34:50):
I think that mentality is just so wrong.
It's so wrong.
I think the problem from all thefirst responder communities is
you know it starts withleadership.
Your leaders have to be abeacon of life for your people,
because, think about it, nomatter what your profession is

(35:12):
right, and just using theanalogy of a veteran or a cop,
so you're given a budget, right,you're given a budget to run
your department, you get newuniforms, training, clothes,
training in your cars, equipment, all that kind of stuff.
You're given all of these toolsto do your job, but they forget

(35:35):
about the one tool that's themost important tool that you
have, and it's your brain.
And so if you're not lookingafter your brain, you're not
going to be 100% at your job, nomatter what profession you're
in, you know.
And so I believe that theseleaders have a duty of care to
their people, to make sure notjust their communities, but to

(35:59):
their actual people underneaththem that they need to be well,
they need to have that supportnetwork that's there for them
because, like they said, no oneis exempt.
You will have that moment, justlike you did, that day where you
will shut down Like you will.
You will either freeze and goin a total opposite direction or

(36:23):
you will just like you havethat come to Jesus moment where
you just you know you turn itaround, but there's many people
out there who can't and theydon't know how to process that,
and so it's down.
It's up to the leaders tochange that.
I think personally Now in thelaw enforcement and the first
responder community that'sstarting to change, but it's not

(36:46):
changing fast enough.
When you look at the rate ofsuicide.

Speaker 1 (36:50):
Why do you think that is when?
In your experience, have itreally Is the resistance or the?

Speaker 2 (36:56):
friction, I think.
I think before COVID, I think,yes, everyone was on board with
it.
And then when?
And I hate to use politics, butI think politics.
I know you're going to say thatpolitics has gotten involved
massively in the first respondercommunity, and to the detriment

(37:18):
of the first responders, youknow, because when you think of
it logically, right, just say,for instance, law enforcement's
immunity was threatened to betaken away.
If that happened, it meant thatthey're on their own, basically
.
So if they get sued, they haveto pay for that themselves.
The government was no longergoing to do that, so they're
stressed out about that.

(37:39):
Then the training had to haveto change, right?
So you're already puttingyourself just think about it
with the training that you'regiven when you go into an
academy or whatever, and thetraining that you get all the
time.
When your structure is changedand you're put in a high intense
situation and your hypervigilance is off the charts,

(38:01):
right, and you're put into thatsituation, you're thinking
within your mind within thatsplit second, am I going to get
shot?
Am I going to kill somebody?
Am I going to get sued?
Am I going to, am I going toget jailed?
These are all the things.
The high stresses that theseguys have a split second
decision to make within a moment, and that is extremely

(38:25):
difficult, and so the governmentdoesn't see that, and so
they're just implementing all ofthese rules and regulations
without even contemplating theimpact that it is having on the
individuals.
And when we talk with firstresponders now, when they reach
out to us for help, it's reallyfunny to see how it's evolving.

(38:46):
Right, so it would always bearound their families, it would
be around what they'veexperienced on the job.
But now, just from talking todoctors all the time that we
deal with it, but in certainorganizations, when they strip
it back, there is two thingsthat it's becoming a very clear

(39:07):
and I would never have thoughtof it before is like it's a very
clear path to their destructionis one they have childhood
trauma that they've never dealtwith.
Right, that they've.
They've compartmentalized itand forgot all about it.
But what they experience on thejob triggers whatever that was
in the past right.
And then you have which is areally new thing is the

(39:29):
administration.
There are administrationsfailing them and they know that
there's no hope.
There is a mass exodus withinlaw enforcement right now, a
veteran police officers massexodus and they don't want.
They didn't want to leavebecause they love the job and
they actually a lot of them.
We talk to feel guilty forleaving because they're leaving

(39:50):
these kids, but they know, ifthey know the risks involved now
with all of these laws that'simplemented by the government.
So they had to get out.
They just had to get out.
But now you have these youngkids that are coming in.
We don't have the veterans tolook after them and help them on
their way.
And these kids are coming inand they're not as hard tough as

(40:12):
the veterans are and so they'regetting more impact impacted by
what they're seeing.
And for the good thing aboutthe younger generation now is
their will and talk.
It's the older generation thatwon't talk, you know.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
So that's good.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
Yeah, so that's a positive.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
But how do we motivate people getting into
this type of line of work, Goinginto how are the police
academies dealing with?
I guess, a meager applicationnumbers and they're not.

Speaker 2 (40:50):
How does?

Speaker 1 (40:50):
that happen.
They're not.
It's changed.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
It's bad.
Right now.
No one wants to join the policeforce.
Right, so Remember they're waydown, Like way way down.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
So is there any solution?
Any way?
Has that risen awareness withinthe politicians to realize?
Okay, the strategy I guess isnot working out to anybody's
benefit?

Speaker 2 (41:12):
Yeah, but it's the same even with the veterans
right now they can't.
Or with the military, theycan't get people to sign up.
Now you know, yeah, and again Ihate bringing it into this, but
it's like we've joined thisworld culture that is now
intoxicating these people thathave a tough job to do when they
their entities.

(41:33):
That should never be.
Those lines should not becrossed.
You know they have to act aspecific way.
They need to be allowed to dotheir job and that's the issue
is, they're not allowed to dotheir jobs.
You know they're villainizedfor doing their jobs.
So it's just, it's somethingthat has got to give within the

(41:54):
ranks of the politician world,because I can't see it getting
any better.
You know I really can't, andthat's disheartening for those
who are who we need valuably tojoin the services, but it's just
not happening.
The numbers are down, thequality of candidates is down.
It's not good.

(42:15):
You know it's really not good,yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
So I know and I hope that people will wake up and
realize that the people who arein the enterprise are going to
realize that this vocal culture,mentality and this
fear-mongering is not going tohelp any of us.
And I guess you know, likehistory has told us, unless

(42:43):
things get bad enough, peoplewon't do anything about it.
There's too many politicians whoare so worried about their
careers and about how they canmaximize these types of issues
to their benefit that, you know,until one of their own family

(43:06):
members or they themselves getaffected from it, and then all
of a sudden they become thespokesperson.
So it's tough to say, but it isthe way it is and I hate to be
the one saying it, but you know,unless we've gotten burned
ourselves, we probably won'tnecessarily, or we kind of close
both eyes on issues like that,and I think that will change, I

(43:30):
just don't know when.
But I wanted to circle back alittle bit on these resources
that you guys have.
You said you know you settingpeople up with resources, how,
what kind of resources are youtalking about?
And if you can kind of explainus a little bit how, if someone

(43:51):
is seeking help and they contactyou guys or they come in touch
with you, and, when you do,channel them to the resources
that you mentioned, what arethose resources specifically?

Speaker 2 (44:02):
So when we do that, we tend to.
We have a lot of resources, sothere's loads of different
treatment facilities that wewould reach out to depending on
the situation.
So when, when they contact us,we'll have like a couple of
questions that we will ask themso we will know what level of
care they need or who we need togo to.

(44:23):
So if it's somebody who needssome treatment for addiction, if
it's someone who who needsmental health treatment, or if
it's someone who who just needsoutsourced, like you know, out
of treat, out of facilitytreatment, we we judge it on
that and then we contact thepeople out where on a resource

(44:44):
team.
Then they assess the individualand the thing that I love about
, particularly about Acadia, isbased on the individual's
assessment, they will send themto the treatment facility that
best suits the individual'sneeds and that does not mean
their own, their own facilities.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
Oh, that's, one.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
Yeah, it's great because they invest so many
other other agencies that theycould partner with if a
treatment is needed, a specifictreatment within a specific area
for that individual, and sothey put them out to whatever
treatment facility best suitsthat person's needs.
Because mental health as awhole is a minefield and

(45:26):
everybody's everybody.
How they deal with it andprocess it is different, and so
is the treatment.
It's nearly like it's tailoredto an individual.
So they do that.
And then for the outsourced andfor the outpatients, we work
with a great company calledForge Health.
We've sent a lot of peopletheir direction too, and they I

(45:51):
think they're in about 10 statesnow, but they have like a tele
telemedical as well.
So they're really they're greatpeople and if they don't know
someone, they have someonewithin their field or their area
that will know someone who willget them help, you know.
So it's all about utilizing theresources we have to assess the

(46:12):
individual and then find thebest care needed for those,
those people.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
That's wonderful and I think having that type of
triage that is also done bypeople that have been in the
trenches, like you said, is whatmakes it more relatable to the
individual that is seeking help,that knows that they're
speaking to someone that likethem.
And you know, because a lot ofus not doctors but people out

(46:43):
there, they don't havenecessarily very healthy
relationship with doctors ortherapists sometimes.
You know, I've seen that hateand mistrust on social media a
lot where I tried to educatewhich is all I do on social
media try to educate people onthe stuff that I know best and I

(47:06):
never tried to talk about stuffthat I don't know.
And then I see comments like youguys are just saying that
because all you care about ismoney and the pharmaceutical
industry is so corrupt, they putus all in one pot and yeah
category and start judging usand I'm thinking, wow, I mean,

(47:28):
if you go through life with thattype of attitude, you know like
there's no way you can ever gethelp if you need it.
So but but again it's politics.
Again I again blame it on mediacreating these types of stories
.

Speaker 2 (47:47):
It is 100% correct there.

Speaker 1 (47:51):
And it's so sad, it makes me so upset.
I'm like here I am trying togive the best advice and someone
takes it exactly opposite,almost like I'm doing everything
for money.
And so sometimes I just commentwith empathy.
I said I'm sorry you feel thisway.
You know there are the ones ofus that care more about helping
people, that care about money.

(48:12):
If you believe in humanity, butif you've lost your trust and
you know your love for humanity,then you know God help you.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
Yeah, because and you know I, because I've been
following you for a long timenow and I love your honesty.
I absolutely love your honesty,thank you, and everything else.
But from a standpoint of youand I can relate to this I'd be
in it being just saying if I wasa patient and I was, because I

(48:49):
think I told you about my weightloss and I've lost 100 pounds,
and so me as a person can, yes,I feel much better myself, I'm
really healthy now and all thatkind of stuff, but I in many
ways still suffer with bodydysmorphia and you know like to

(49:10):
me, I've traded in one problemfor another set of problems.
There's other things that needsto be fixed.
Now you know what I mean,there's always something.
There's always something.
So but for as a doctor likeparticularly in the field you
work in, where people, peoplewho reach out a lot there's a
lot of people who reach out forhelp to plastic surgeons, and

(49:35):
you know people who dobariatrics and all that kind of
stuff and they're reaching outbecause they're at their most
lowest, they believe thatthere's something wrong with
them and they want to changethat for the better.
Like, granted, some people areamazing at it and they just get
it done because they want to getit done, but there is an
underlying issue of thatindividual suffering mentally

(49:57):
about how they physically lookand how they feel.
And so I can't imagine as adoctor particularly one like you
give a great bedside manner andyou're great with people and
you care.
So you're taking on people'sstories, they're talking to you
about their lowest points, andso you're layering that up as

(50:17):
well.
You know so as much as you knowfirst responders doing their
things.
You're actually layering thatupon yourself.
So you're taking on otherpeople's heartache and that's
difficult, and then you're goinghome to your family and then
you have to try and decompressor compartmentalize, whatever
way you process it.
So I think, just because youwork in the cosmetic field and

(50:43):
people think it's a reallyglamorous job and it is.
It makes people beautiful andmakes people very happy with
themselves.
But at the same time, patientsare patients and patients have
problems and they will emotional.
You know.
So I think it does not matterwhat sort of a doctor you are,

(51:05):
what sort of a nurse you are,whatever field you work in,
things is going to impact you.
If you're a human being, itwill impact you in some way.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
So far, yeah, thank you.
I really appreciate yousegwaying into that, because
that's actually how we met.
And I remember, you know, thatday that I sat on my desk and it
kind of felt like that day whenI was in the trauma center
where I was just exhausted and Ijust sat on my desk and there

(51:38):
was this utter silence and thenI just picked up the phone and I
just started talking to a pointI don't even remember right now
.
I wouldn't be able to recallwhat I said.
I would have to see if I canfind that post to listen to what
I said, because I just startedtalking and when you talk from

(51:59):
your heart, you don't rememberwhat you said because it didn't
go through my brain, it camestraight from my heart to my
mouth, to my vocal cords.
But I remember that day.
I had a whole week and thatparticular day back to back to
back patients, where you knowthat's the part that people

(52:21):
don't know about our job.
We certainly don't save lives,but what I try to do is improve
people's lives by giving themback their self-esteem, their
self-confidence, and I'm sopassionate about it that I feel
everything my patients say andsometimes I struggle to keep my

(52:47):
composure and hold my emotionsback, because I can feel how
they feel You're an inspiration.
Yeah, I just I feel it and viceversa, I share their happiness
afterwards when I was able tohelp them, which is there's
nothing more beautiful than whensomeone just looks you in the

(53:10):
eyes and, straight up, saysthank you, and you can feel what
that thank you means.
There's two words, but you canfeel, you can sense, you know
with all your fibers in yourbody, you can sense what that
meant and how the patient meantit.
That is, it's the superpowerthat I feel.

(53:35):
It gives me to try to helpevery single person that I can
see or touch, and so that'sreally something I do with a lot
of conviction because I see itevery day, I see a
transformation, but thatparticular day I sit several
consultations and patients allthe patients had, you know,

(53:59):
crazy stories, that fromdomestic abuse to just someone
one patient, her mother, wasconstantly telling her that
she's ugly, that she should dosomething about herself.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
And that's what I mean about you taking it all on.
You know, people don't realizethat that you do.
You layer all that up and itdoes have an effect on you and
your well-being.
And I always remember that post, I always remember seeing it
and I just I had to reach out toyou because I could feel it

(54:45):
from you.

Speaker 1 (54:46):
And it meant a lot to me, by the way, just knowing
that someone heard it and thereis people like you that actually
have their lives missionconsists of helping others, but
for me, just knowing is thatbasically, hey, I see you and I

(55:07):
hear you, which is what you saidthat just made me feel so much
better.
So that's why I'm reallygrateful, not just for what you
do with your foundation, helpingfirst responders, but you have
your eyes and ears out there onsocial media.

(55:31):
So that day, back to the story,and so basically, instead of
talking about surgical ornon-surgical solutions to their
problem, I just tried to givethem self-worth, teach them

(55:52):
self-love, tell them that theonly important thing is what
they think and not what othersthink, that today is the first
day of their future and the pastis the past, it doesn't exist
anymore, it only desists intheir minds.
And so I was more of a lifecoach that day.

(56:18):
But when I do that, I don'tjust check boxes, I don't just
read a script.
I really, because I feel thepatient's pain, I really want
them to hear me, I really it'sso important to me that they
understand what I'm saying, so Igive it my all.
I put everything I have, thelast piece of me, into that

(56:42):
conversation, to the point thatmy staff now knows they cannot
disturb the room when thathappens, to tell me, hey, the
next patient is waiting.
Because when that happens Iusually have a talk with them to
realize that, yes, we'rerunning a business, but first we

(57:02):
treat human beings, and this ismore important than anyone.
And let me deal with thepatient that had been waiting,
because I will explain why theyhad been waiting and, trust me
they will be okay with it, sodon't worry about it.
So my staff and my staff knowsthat.
And the way I learned thatlesson is because the very first

(57:25):
time I had to explain to thepatient why apologize for that
they've been waiting, and Iexplained why they had been
waiting, the patient got up andgave me a hug.
So that's when I learned it'slike well, people, there is
human beings out there.
They understand people stillhave a heart out there.

(57:47):
They're not just out there toget you or complain or leave a
bad review on Google to corneryou or to pressure you.
So that was that very learningexperience.
So that day I gave it my all andI was able to really get to a
point with those patients thatat the end of the conversations

(58:12):
they were so full of gratitudeand so much they felt so much
more hope and they verbalized it.
That's why I know it, you cansense it, but when they
verbalize it it's a differentthing.
That means it really meant alot to them.
That means, hey, I really heardyou, thank you, and things like

(58:32):
no one ever spent this timewith me, no one.
So all of those things theymean a lot and it's very
uplifting, yes, it's also ithelps my own self.
It's maybe it's a little bit ofselfishness involved in there
too, but because it makes mefeel amazing to know that I

(58:52):
could make a difference, notjust with the scalpel, but just
by giving someone justperspective.
Right, all I do is I give themperspective and how much that
helps these people, how itaffects them, and so I'm so
passionate about it and it'ssomething that in our field, in
cosmetic or plastic surgery, notonly it's not talked about,

(59:14):
it's frowned upon, it's like,hey, we're not, this is not our
problem.
Those patients need to see apsychologist or a shrink.
You're a surgeon, do your joband be done with it and don't
deal with those patients.
I disagree because the humanpart of me can't let me see past
that.
It's just part of it, becausewhen I do see transformations of

(59:35):
when I do some work on thesepatients, it's the joy it brings
me is not any different thanthe joy it brings me by spending
the 15 or 30 minutes talking tothem, even if they walk out
without any treatment plan,knowing that I helped them.
Because some of these patients,their problems is more

(59:56):
psychological.
They have just self-esteemissues and, yes, someone might
have some problems that itreally, if I feel, or they
verbalize that that's reallywhat is affecting their
self-esteem and if I can augmentit with that physical change

(01:00:17):
together with my let's call itpep talk, then that's a double
winner and that's what I'mpassionate about.
But I cannot separate them.
I can't separate the human,their spirit, their brain from
their body Just not possible.
It's just they go hand in handand there are studies that in

(01:00:43):
social psychology that has shownthat it's embedded in our DNA.
We feel better when we lookbetter, we have more
self-confidence.
It boosts our self-esteem.
I mean, they're related, it'slike a cycle and you can't
separate them.
You can't say, oh no, thisperson is crazy or this person

(01:01:06):
is shallow.
There's more important stuff inlife and that's the stigma
that's attached to when peoplechoose to improve their physical
appearance.
To me it's not any differentthan someone trying to go to the
gym or losing weight or combingtheir hair, putting their
favorite shirt or dress on to goto an event.

(01:01:27):
You walk differently, you talkdifferently.
As a result, it's not anydifferent.
And yet people judge cosmeticor plastic surgery and they
separate that, and so one of mymissions is to give them
perspective, to tell them look,it's not any different than you
just putting your favorite shirton, look how you feel.

(01:01:49):
I mean, how would you feel likegoing in a hoodie and jumpsuit
to a wedding?
You would feel weird.
And then you can blame thesociety for it, say, well,
that's societal pressure.
I refuse to bend to societalpressure.
Well then, don't.
Then stay home.
But if you come to the eventand if you do these, if you

(01:02:10):
dress up, stop judging peoplethat are worried about their
physical appearance and want toimprove it.
And that's part of thelifestyle.
And it's 2023.
It's not 1920.

Speaker 2 (01:02:24):
You know I got so relate to it exactly how you
talked about that.
It's like as much as I'm in theface of Irish Angel like I
would be happily be the onebehind the scenes just doing the
work, and so when I was heavier, I would never get in

(01:02:46):
photographs.
I would.
I would shy away from it and Istill hate getting in
photographs, like thephotographs he saved me online.
They're like avatars.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
That's not what it is me, but it's not me, I actually
, I actually like you betterthan your photographs, to be
honest with you, and I mean it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:04):
Thank you, but I'm so camera shy so I totally I had
that whole.
People would judge me all thetime by my appearance and I
would always be the very firstperson to put myself down in
front of people so that no oneelse I would never give them the
opportunity to do it.
You know what I mean.
And that's all destroying tosomebody.

(01:03:25):
So when I went through mygastric sleeve, so I'd read it
till it was white, because Ibattled on and off for years, I
was yo-yo dieting all the timeand then I got really sick and
I'm an asthmatic and I got hadto get the job and the job put
me in hospital with a blood clotand I was like I have to do
something and so I did.

(01:03:45):
But the difference in me I'mstill shy, like I will talk to
anybody.
Put me in a room, 100 people,I'll yuck, yuck, yuck away, no
problem.
But when it comes to standingup and me being the center of
attention, I hate it.
I actually hate it and it's soironic given the work I do.
But I'm like just from that andI know it's in here For me.

(01:04:10):
It's in here, right, theconstant beating down on your
appearance, because I've hadthat all my life and I've had
that where people put me downand so people would comment on
how you look or whatever.
And yes, I have to look acertain way now given the role
that I'm in.
But does it mean that in here isfixed, that you can fix this?

(01:04:36):
It will make you feel better?
But sometimes that's my trauma,that part of my trauma, that
has to heal and it is.
It's getting better all thetime.
But it's good people like youwho help people like us feel
better.
And that is the start.

(01:04:57):
Like you just said, it's thebeginning of the rest of your
life and people need tounderstand that just because
someone goes for cosmeticsurgery doesn't mean that
they're vain.
It doesn't mean that they're,you know, they're up to
themselves or whatever.
And it means sometimes theyhave issues and it stems with
here or with the support networkof people they have around them

(01:05:20):
.
Toxic people reads horriblestuff on good people and it has
a profound impact on theirwell-being.
So I appreciate people like you, trust me, and I never judge
anybody.
I never judge anybody onimproving themselves.
If that's what they want to do,go, do you.
If it makes you happy, do it.

(01:05:42):
Well luckily for a short whileluckily it is changing.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
You're absolutely right.
Luckily that is changing, eventhough slowly.
But if I just look at the past10 years, we've come a long way.
And I love the new generation.
I love the millennials and GenZ's.
They're extremely intelligent.
They're a highly intelligentgeneration that is more in touch

(01:06:13):
with themselves.
It's more honest than mygeneration, which is Gen X, or
even the millennials that areall you know.
Their behaviors are led bystigmatae and just judgment,
self-judgment even, and it'susually the people that judge

(01:06:37):
themselves, judge others themost, and that's something that
I noticed during my career andmy line of work.
But it's important to talk aboutthese things because I feel the
more you talk about thesethings, the more normal they
become.
And then, all of a sudden,people will come out and they

(01:06:57):
will voice and I've seen that onsocial media when people say,
okay, I guess he's talking aboutit, hey, I'll share my story
too, and then someone else comesout and is like, yeah, me too.
And then all of a sudden, wehave more people talking about
it, and to me, progress alwaysstarts with a conversation.

(01:07:21):
And then, when the conversationhappens, that's when the chips
just fall in the right place.
And so, opening up theconversation, which is what we
are doing today in essence, andI hope this episode will be
shared by people, just so othersthat don't know about you and

(01:07:45):
me can listen to this and knowthat, oh wow, so there are
people that are aware of thisproblem, so it is okay to talk
about it, and that's what I'mtrying to raise is awareness.
But, just like you, not justawareness, but also at work, I

(01:08:07):
try to do every day somethingabout it.
With my patients that I come intouch, I'm in a unique situation
where I meet strangers everysingle day of my life and they
let me into their lives throughtheir stories and I get to help
them, and I consider this aprivilege and I'm so grateful

(01:08:31):
because by doing so, I gain somuch more perspective that helps
me in my personal life so muchmore.
That's how I've grown as aperson through my patient's
stories, through gaining moreperspective, realizing, oh wow,
for example, I thought I haveproblems.

(01:08:51):
I guess, compared to thatperson, I'm not really that bad
in a bad situation, or viceversa.
You find someone that's in asimilar situation.
You're like, oh my God, me too,and then you share experiences
and then all of a sudden itdoesn't look like a problem
anymore just because you justtalked about it.
And I think conversations areso much more valuable and people

(01:09:13):
underestimate it.
And for what you guys do, a lotof it is just helping people to
come out and crying for helpand getting help just by talking
to them.
So I wish there was an Irishangel everywhere, in every
profession, and one of thethings I hope you guys get into

(01:09:38):
and is to also help or notforget about those in training,
because the training for medicalresidents is anywhere from four
to seven years and that'sduring a time when you're in
your 20s and early 30s where youdon't have life experience,

(01:10:03):
where you just thrown out thereand you're supposed to deal with
certain pressures that you'venever even imagined exist and
you're expected to deal with itwithout any help.
And I remember the first day Ihad to tell in the trauma center
.
I had to tell a parent thatthey're 17 year old after eight

(01:10:25):
gunshot wounds that didn't makeit.
I was in the trauma bay and wetried everything we could and
unfortunately he didn't make it.
And I remember his face and Iremember him asking, before we

(01:10:49):
put him to sleep, if he's gonnadie.
And I told him don't worry, wegot you.
And then 30 minutes later Ifelt a hand on my shoulder.
I said you need to go talk tothe family.
And because he didn't make itand then I looked at was one of

(01:11:10):
the nurses and said why I haveto go?
Like isn't that the attending'sjob?
I'm just a resident, just likethe attending is.
In the operating room there'sno one but you here.
A doctor has to go and talk tothe family.
And I couldn't refuse.
I couldn't say no and I didn'tknow what to say.

(01:11:32):
I didn't even know the words.
No one has taught me had taughtme how to say it.

Speaker 2 (01:11:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:11:40):
So and then, nurses, don't worry, a social worker
will be coming with you and thenyou just you have to explain
the cause of death and break thenews, and then the social
worker will take over.
I'm like, okay, next thing, thesocial worker was there, we'll
go to the waiting room.
It was a packed waiting room.
There was like 50 people thereand 20 of them were family

(01:12:04):
members.
Like the whole family of thekid had come to the hospital.
And I walked.
I didn't know who I'm supposedto talk to.
I keep looking and I'm likewho's the parent?
So, as I call the family name,the mother and the father come
approach me and before I couldsay who I am, or hello, she said

(01:12:27):
did my baby make it?
Did my?
How's my baby doing?
How's my baby doing?
And I'm shaking right nowtelling the story because all
those emotions, I'm reliving it.
But I just didn't know what tosay.
So I said, as soon as I saidsorry.
When I saw her face I got somuch anxiety I thought she's

(01:12:51):
going to like attack me orsomething, or she's going to
blame me.
And I said we did everything wecould and then all of a sudden,
she grabs me and she shakes me,screaming no, no, and then she
just slams herself on the floorand cries.
And then everybody came some ofthem were angry and next thing

(01:13:14):
I see I'm in the air, I'mairborne and I'm moving
backwards.
And I look, look to my back.
One of the security people hadliterally picked me up and was
running me towards the exit ofthe waiting room, back into the
trauma center, back for my ownsafety.
And then the door slams and Ididn't know.

(01:13:39):
It took me a moment to realizewhat just happened and I was so
perplexed.
No one came and I was all bymyself Because there was no one
there, and the security justasked me are you okay, doc?
I said yeah, I'm okay.
And I said thanks for gettingme out of there.
He says, yeah, no problem, thatyou know, we do that all the

(01:13:59):
time.
And he said again are you okay?
I'm like yes, I wasn't okay.
But I just said yes.
And then he left and I just Iremember I sat on a chair and I
just started crying.
Because I was crying, because Icouldn't cope with that.
I couldn't process it.
I didn't know this is going tohappen.

(01:14:20):
I didn't know what I'm supposedto do now.
Should I talk to someone aboutit.
Should I go say I'm not goingto do this again?
Or like why don't you guysteach us how to do this?
Like, can at least someone tellus what I can expect?
Like just go there and talk tothem and tell them, like what
are you talking about?
Like this is someone's child.
And now, thinking back right,so, and every day, whenever

(01:14:46):
someone came through the door, Iwas worried that I'm going to
have to go and tell the family.
I had this anxiety and so whileI'm working, I was always
scared that what if they don'tmake it?
And a lot of people don't makeit right.
No, when you come to a traumacenter with eight gunshot wounds
, I mean your chances are prettyslim, your chances are pretty

(01:15:09):
slim.
So, and for me this was just twomonths rotation, right.
And for people, some of thesetrauma residents or surgeons,
they do that day in and day out,like I don't know how I get,
like, how do you do that, how doyou cope with it?
And yes, you know there are alot of alcoholism is, in that

(01:15:35):
profession, a problem, you knowthey.
They try to still it withalcohol or drugs or just, I
guess, encapsulating themselvesbecause they can't show weakness
, can they?
They can't complain, can they?
Because you're supposed to dothat, that's your job.

(01:15:57):
And if you can't do that, thengo sell ice cream, you know.
Go tell stories in elementaryschool and read books to
children in elementary school.
But then who else is going todo this?
You know what, if, what, if?
You're passionate about this,you know.
But then, you know, support us.

Speaker 2 (01:16:17):
You know, of course, you just have to cope with it.
You gave me chills when youwere saying that, because my
brother was killed in a caraccident in 93.

Speaker 1 (01:16:26):
Oh sorry.

Speaker 2 (01:16:27):
No, it's okay, but we , how you just described the
family being there andeverything just brought it back
to me and I always remember itwas a because David was.
David died at the scene.
Well, en route to the hospitalhe died, but we went in to see

(01:16:49):
him and my mother I alwaysremember my mother and she was
just vomiting.
She was, she was just in a bad,bad way.
But I always remember the, the.
We call them bangards, so apolice officer in Ireland, a
female, is called a banger.
So I always remember lookingover her and she was a young
girl she was only young and shewas crying and it was her first

(01:17:13):
time that she ever to tellsomebody that their child was
dead.
And she brought my heart.
She really did.
And so when I, when I heard yousay that, it just brought it
back to me.
And you know one thing about andagain trying to change the
culture between civilians andfirst responders is if a police

(01:17:38):
officer stops you when he's in apissy humour, you can be sure
his eggs is eggs.
He's in a pissy humour for areason.
You don't know if he's justcome from telling somebody that
their loved one is dead.
You don't know if he's whatscene he's at or what he's seen
that triggered his PTS.
And I'm not justifyingsomeone's attitude, I'm really

(01:18:01):
not.
But we need to be like you saidearlier on.
There has to be More kindhumanity out there, like we have
to be more mindful of people.
You know that we are humanbeings, regardless of our
professions.
We are human beings and they andyou see, you have seen some of

(01:18:24):
the worst things that anybodycould ever see.
You know, like firefighters goin and see born bodies and you
guys get them into the hospital.
Then right, it's just acontinuation you see things
bodies that are mangled in caraccidents.
You see, you know, you see theworst scenes, smells, you know

(01:18:48):
everything and people don'trealise that that it does have
such a profound effect on youand, although we compare,
mentalise it, things willtrigger that sense, will trigger
that you know, seeing somethingdriving down the street that
you once seen an accident on,that was serious and it had an

(01:19:11):
impact on your life or like foryou, if you, if you you're
seeing victims come through thedoor, it might trigger something
that you've seen that reallyaffected you on a particular day
.
We just all, as human beings,need to be more mindful about
each other, Be kinder to eachother.
We're not, we're nasty, Peopleare nasty, and I think if the

(01:19:32):
world was a little bit morekinder, the world would be a
better place, that's for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:19:37):
Thank you I.
These were, these were greatwords of wisdom and advice and I
actually want to leave it atthat, because what you just said
, like amen to that, and I cansummarise it in one word, which
is called actually two words.

(01:19:59):
It's called empathy andcompassion, and that was very
well and beautifully said, and Ihope people listen to what
Amanda just said very, verycarefully, especially the people
that are in power, that are inmedia and care about their own

(01:20:25):
agenda more about the commonagenda.
And with that, from the bottomof my heart, thank you, amanda
for coming on and I really hopethat a lot of people will listen
to this.
And how can people get in touchwith you if you can say it on
air?
It's just irishangelorg.

Speaker 2 (01:20:48):
You can reach out to us there and again, we're on all
social media platforms.
Linkedin is our main one, butwe are on all of them, so just
reach out to anybody I mean, inany profession that's feeling in
any way like they're strugglingand they just want someone to
talk to or listen to.
That we will listen.
You know we're there.

(01:21:09):
That's what we do.
No one is alone and I knowpeople get to a breaking point
sometimes where they can't seethe wood for the trees, but
you're really, really not alone.
There is people out there andon irishangel's team that will
talk to you, that have been inthose trenches with you.

(01:21:29):
So please reach out to us,please.

Speaker 1 (01:21:33):
And I will share Amanda's links in the caption of
the podcast.
So if you want to get in touchwith her and donate to her
foundation, you will essentiallyhelp yourself by helping the
first responders, the verypeople that come when you dial

(01:21:54):
911.
Don't forget.
Thank you very much, amanda.
Thank you All right guys.
Episode's over Hope.
You enjoyed my conversation withthe irish angel, the one and
only Amanda Coleman.
It was a very emotionalconversation for me as I had to

(01:22:21):
show my vulnerable side, but itwas a very safe place talking to
Amanda, and I'm so glad thatthere are angels like her
amongst us that help us when weneed them and that support us
and lift us up when we aretrying to lift others up.
So please, don't forget to dothe most important thing.

(01:22:45):
If you really enjoyed thispodcast, don't forget to leave
me a review on Apply Tunes andleave comments on Spotify.
That way, others will get thebenefit that you got to be
listening to what you thoughtbrought you to Amanda's Valley.
So, from the bottom of my heart, thank you very much and until
next time.
Have a great night and Godspeed.