Hormone Optimization: The Key to Male Vitality - with Dr. Christopher Asandra - The Daria Hamrah Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hey everyone, welcome back to the show.
I'm your host, dario Hamra, andtoday's episode of the Dario
Hamra podcast is one I've reallybeen looking forward to,
because we're diving into theraw and real science of men's
health, longevity and what itactually takes to live with
strength, energy and claritywell into your 40s, 50s and

(00:29):
beyond.
Joining me is Dr ChristopherIsandra out of Beverly Hills,
one of the top anti-aginghormone optimization doctors in
the country.
You've probably seen him on theDoctor Show years ago or maybe
you've heard of his work withelite athletes, high performers
and men who want more out oftheir life than just aging

(00:49):
gracefully.
Today we're breaking downtestosterone myths, sexual
health, muscle and longevity,muscle as a longevity organ, and
cutting-edge therapies likepeptides, hormones, nad and more
.
But beyond the science, we'realso going to talk about what it
means to feel like yourselfagain and how to take ownership

(01:12):
of your health one step at atime.
So let's dive in, christopher,really excited to have you on
making time in your busy, busyschedule.
Now.
Most guys in their 30s or 40sfeel the crash less energy, poor
sleep, low sex drive and theyjust kind of chalk it up to

(01:33):
aging.
But is it really that, or is itsomething else.
It's something that particularmen I don't know if it's a pride
thing, it's a masculine thingthey don't like to talk about it
much.
How is it being brought up inyour practice, and how do you

(01:53):
lead the horse to the water?

Speaker 2 (01:55):
Yeah, thanks for having me, daria.
I think you know part of it isbecause it's becoming more
talked about on things like yourpodcast.
People are opening up more onpodcasts.
You know we've got Joe Roganand all these biohackers that
are talking about testosteronetherapy and hormone replacement
therapy in general for both menand women, and it's, I think,
becoming more accepted as oursociety has gotten more
stressful.

(02:16):
Um, you know they did studieswhere they checked people's
testosterone from today versus,you know, 40, 50, 60 years ago
and the average male is likelike their average testosterone
is like almost in half of whatit used to be and what's causing
it and what?
Why are people losing hormonesand feeling the way they are now
?
You know there's there's manytheories on it.
One, it could be the foods thatwe're eating.

(02:37):
Two, it's a lot of theestrogens xenoestrogens are
found in our water from plasticsand all that.
Now we can't really pinpoint it, I can't say.
But I also think it's also thestress that we deal with every
day from I don't know socialmedia.
It's being bombarded from everydirection now digitally.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
People don't sleep as well.
Now I'm really curious to talkabout these causes that you
mentioned, these potentialcauses that it's hard to
pinpoint because there are justso many.
It's hard to conduct a studywhere you're going to isolate
one versus the other and whereyou have a real control group.
But what are the first warningsigns when your hormones are

(03:19):
crashing and most guys kind ofmiss them?
What are those signs that youcan?

Speaker 2 (03:25):
look out for?
We look out for a few things,and it could be anything that
brings them in.
Sometimes it's erectiledysfunction, sometimes it's just
simply fatigue, no libido, orI'm grumpy we always hear the
term grumpy old man and I thinkthat comes from low testosterone
, but it's a myriad of thingsnow I think that are symptom
wise because, like, maybe Idon't know for you, for example,

(03:46):
or me we're kind of at that agenow where it would benefit us.
We start noticing things aren'tfunctioning as well, whether
it's our muscle mass, our gymperformance, our erection
quality, our libido, or we justfeel more tired lately in the
fatigue, and I've noticed thatpeople are noticing that a lot
more, as they in their thirtiesnow, even more so than I think

(04:08):
you know, maybe 10, 15, 20 yearsago, but it's usually the first
time it's like, oh, mentalclarity it's down, I've got that
brain fog, I crash in theafternoon, I don't feel like
myself, and I'm also noticingthat, you know, things aren't
functioning as well physicallyon me, and that's really what
brings men in and unfortunately,the doctors that they go to

(04:28):
don't really address it, and so,you know, we're kind of their
last hope sometimes.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yeah, it's interesting that you said that
Now you used to be aconventional doctor.
I mean, you went toconventional medical school and
I believe you did a residency inemergency medicine.
And I believe you did aresidency in emergency medicine

(05:06):
and so tell us a little bitabout that experience compared
to how and of you know, justsexual drive, tiredness,
grumpiness and those things andand their doctors may have just
given them an antidepressant ortold them, like I was told,
you're just working too hard orwell, you're getting older, so
better age, gracefully.
How do you address that?

(05:28):
How do you explain that to thepatient?
And tell us a little bit aboutyour journey, how you
transitioned from conventionalmedicine, emergency medicine
into this field.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
So yeah, I was doing emergency medicine for a while.
We work a lot of night shiftsand I've noticed in my early 30s
I wasn't functioning as well.
But when you saw people come tothe ER, you look at the list of
medications they're on.
I mean, they're on sometimes alaundry list of 10, 15 different
medications.
Oh, this one's used to counterthe effects of this one and this

(05:59):
one's used to counter theeffects.
It becomes this whole meltingpot of medications that they're
stuck on.
It becomes this whole likemelting pot of medications that
they're stuck on.
I was like there's got to be abetter way to get these patients
healthier without just reactivemedicine where we just stick
them on.
We look at your numbers, westick you on a medication and
suddenly, boom, we treated thepatient.
No, no, no.
We need to go back and look atthe beginning and the history on

(06:23):
this patient.
Why they're feeling this way.
What led up to why that theystarted?
Why were they put on theantidepressant at 50 years old,
when they were going throughmenopause or whatever the cause
may be?
But I started researching it andlooking into it because a lot
of my patients, even in the ER,would ask me you know, hey, doc,
can you get me Viagra, can youget me testosterone?
And I thought to myself, why do?
Why do these older men wantthis?
And I was like there's gotta bea reason why.

(06:44):
So I started looking into itmore and really dealt, diving
into the basic fundamentals ofmedicine that we learned in
medical school.
We forget about all thatbecause we become polluted by
just big pharma and what theytell us to prescribe, where it
becomes, like I said, reactivemedicine.
And so I started my journey kindof looking into, you know, what
keeps men younger, what makesthem feel better, what keeps
them sexually, you know, younger, you know, and more potent.

(07:07):
And so I started with that areaand I really I joined the way a
four and the American Academyof anti aging medicine and I
really opened my eyes to a lotof things that there's other
ways to treat patients, not justwith meds but with, you know,
natural things like hormones,change of your lifestyle, sleep,
you, you know, and I think inmedicine doctors are just so you
know we have to move fast.

(07:28):
It's like five, ten minuteswith the patient max, but when
you can't get a good history,where you're just looking at
their labs and their numbers andintriguing that so yeah, one I
wonder why that is that we haveto move fast.

Speaker 1 (07:38):
You know, is that really in service of the patient
or in service of something else?
But that's a different topics.
But I commend you for at leastresponding to your own curiosity
and not just accepting thestatus quo.
And I mean, that's how medicineor science should be.

(07:59):
We should ask, we should beasking questions and not
accepting something that we weretold Right.
And how do you feel medicine ingeneral is moving along in that
department, your colleagues inparticular?
Do you think we're on thistrend, that finally they're
realizing it, or do still manyphysicians live under the rock

(08:23):
and do you think it's going tobe a very uphill battle?

Speaker 2 (08:28):
Well, it's both.
I think the good news is a lotmore physicians are opening up
to this and I think it's notnecessarily because suddenly
they had this epiphany.
I think it's because theirpatients are demanding it.
Their patients are coming inand said hey, I heard this
podcast with whomever it was,and they're doing this type of
treatments.
How do you feel about it?

(08:49):
And nine times out of 10 ormore doctors don't know what it
is or what they're talking about.
So they start doing their ownresearch and I think it's coming
from that.
But then on the other side ofit too, um, I think,
unfortunately.
I think a lot of doctors haveego and you know, we've been
kind of trained a certain way.
They think they're always rightwith their treatments.
But when a lot of my patientscome in and we get them
healthier with just ourtreatments, they look better,

(09:10):
they lose weight, their numberslook better.
Sometimes doctors don't likethat.
So a lot of times these primarydoctors will call me and
literally bitch me out and sayyou know, why do you have my
patient on this, this and that?
And I'll tell them.
Well, let's look at theirnumbers.
How's their blood pressure now?
How's their cholesterol?
Is he more active and theydon't like that.
They actually get offended byit.

(09:31):
So I don't like the fact that alot of doctors are still stuck
in that bubble and, like yousaid, being under a rock.
I think we need to be moreopen-minded about medicine and
really look to turning to thepatient and seeing what the best
type of treatment is for thepatient, not what suits our ego
and what we've been taught allthe time.

Speaker 1 (09:53):
Interesting that you said that because, even though
it makes sense what you'resaying and I deal communicating
with doctors all the time aboutmy patient's health I feel the
ones that respond that way Ithink it comes more from a point
of insecurity.
I feel the ones that respondthat way, I think it comes more
from a point of insecurity, yeah, but I think the patient today,
more so than ever, is in aposition where they are their
own best advocate, because welive in the day of information

(10:19):
where living unhealthy honestlyat this point is a choice.
Living unhealthy honestly atthis point is a choice Because
in a world of information welive in today, there's no excuse
and I feel the patient is moreempowered than ever to keep
their doctors honest and keepthem on their toes, to enforce

(10:40):
them to do their research, tomake that progression into the
modern type of medicine, themedicine 3.0, where they educate
themselves beyond what theywere taught in medical school 20
, 30 years ago, and this almostthis perpetuating this dogmatic

(11:01):
group thing that doesn't reallyserve anyone health-wise.
So I think the patients, moreso than ever, thanks to the
internet and social media, is inthe best position to find
people like you, becoming awarethrough podcasts like this or
Joe Rogan, you know who's theother one.

(11:26):
Maybe, Huberman, atiyah thoseguys you know.
They raised great awareness and, I think, a lot of men.
I don't know what yourexperience is.
Do you feel men are more opento admitting that they have a
problem than maybe five or 10years before, before these
podcasts came out?

(11:48):
Do you see any trend there inyour practice, huge, huge trend.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
I think it's the same thing with, like, botox and
laser hair removal.
I mean, people were embarrassedto go talk about it before.
Now it's like, oh, I got myBotox appointment coming up, I
got to go.
You know, it's like people areunderstanding that it's more
about longevity and health andit's interesting you bring that
up.
I just someone was telling methe other day that you know, the
youth are not drinking as muchalcohol.
Now, right, they're going forwellness.

(12:14):
Now they're, they're onto thisbiohacking wellness thing, and
so people are losing moneybecause, um, you know, kids
aren't drinking as much alcohol.
But to me that's awesome and Ithink it's because, like you
said, the internet, thesepodcasts that are making people
more aware of, of you know, whathealth is, and I'm glad that
we're.
We have the internet to to dothings like what we're doing, to

(12:34):
to spread the word and reallyget the word out there about
what makes us healthier.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
It's it's.
You're so right, it's all abouteducation.
It's funny because I have, forevery patient above the age of
50 that's asking me aboutsupplements, I have two Gen
Z-lers asking me aboutsupplements like NAD.
And I'm like you're 20, youdon't need NAD, your body is
generating enough NAD.
Just go exercise, don't eatjunk, and you'll be fine.

(13:00):
And it is a testament to thefact that this awareness and
that they're so smart, you know,and even my four-year-old.
Every morning he wakes up, he'slike Dada, I need my vitamins.
So this morning I gave him hisvitamins and he has his
probiotics, his prebiotics.
He has his vitamin D, you know,and he literally I actually

(13:21):
just posted it on my storiesbecause I thought it's funny he
literally went into oursupplements drawer, pulled it
out and he knows where hissupplements are.
He took it out, put it on thetable.
But that goes back to education.
You wouldn't expect afour-year-old to be this aware,
but we, as parents, made themaware so he knows what junk food
is.

(13:41):
He doesn't ask for it.
So I think education is key andI think the current, younger
generation is much more educatedthan we were when we were that
age.
And a lot of these myths areeasy to bust, which want to
bring me to the next myth, abouttestosterone in particular,

(14:05):
where those doctors you talk tokind of come at you and ask you
why you're putting theirpatients on this, and I would
think that it's because of thesemyths around these peptides and
therapies.
So is testosterone dangerous,or is everything we've heard

(14:27):
just outdated science?
Can you kind of um you know umdive into it and explain for the
, for our colleagues, but alsofor the layman that is listening
, in simple terms, and we'll,we'll talk about the, these
specific medical terms, whatthey mean in layman's terms, so
our audience can understandRight.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
Listen, anything in excess is not good.
And I think where we starthearing about the bad side
effects of testosterone one isyou know, there was I think
there was this myth that itcaused heart attacks.
But we also have the myth onthe other side where you hear
about bodybuilders dying fromusing steroids.
But we also have the myth onthe other side where you hear
about bodybuilders dying fromusing steroids and a lot of my
patients ask me you know, isthis safe?
Because I heard about thisbodybuilder dying and all this

(15:10):
person dying.
And I tell them listen, thosepeople are abusing it.
There's a difference betweentherapy and abuse.
Okay, people are using 10 timesthe amount they should.
They're combining it with otherblack market steroids.
They're probably not even usingreal testosterone or they don't
know what they're gettingbecause it's literally made in
someone's kitchen.
So that's where it kind of cameout.
But we're starting to see this.
You know, just one or two weeksago they just took the black

(15:32):
box warning off testosterone.
Uh, the fda just removed theblack box warning because we're
finding out more studies that itdoesn't cause heart attacks and
it's not as dangerous as peoplethink.
The studies that came out thetraverse study, traverse study
show that it's not increasingheart disease.
It's not, you know, versusplacebo.
It's actually in some studiesare shown it helps men with
heart disease because it makesyou get more active and

(15:53):
healthier and the heart is amuscle.
So, and and you also have tocontrol the estrogen with it too
, you got to make sureeverything's in balance right.
So you can't just taketestosterone, expect miracles,
and it can't be aone-size-fits-all.
We've got to check your bloodwork, adjust the dosing so it's
exactly in the right levels thatwe want it at, versus just
bombarding you with aone-size-fits-all.

(16:13):
So I think that's where thestigma comes that you were
mentioning about why it's bad.
But if it's done under doctorsupervision, it's monitored,
it's completely.
If not, it's very healthy foryou in many ways it's completely
.

Speaker 1 (16:27):
If not, it's very healthy for you in many ways.
Yeah, it's.
Uh reminds me of a quote.
Say that the uh greatest enemyof knowledge is not, uh,
ignorance, it's the illusion ofknowledge, and a lot of these
doctors they think they theyknow it because of certain myths
that they follow.
But it's, it's, it's not sotrue.
So tell us a little bit about,also, the estrogen in

(16:48):
combination with testosterone,because a dude listening here
this is like wait a second, Idon't want estrogen.
Isn't that a female hormone?
So talk a little bit about theimportance of the balance
between estrogen andtestosterone.

Speaker 2 (17:00):
Right, right, so the big myth is that men don't need
estrogen.
It's bad, you're going to growboobs, you're going to be moody
and emotional and all that.
But in reality we need someestrogen for our brain health,
for our bone health and also forour mood.
But it's got to be in the rightamount.
So when we hear about roid ragefrom a lot of bodybuilders,

(17:21):
it's not necessarily thetestosterone that's too high.
They're not controlling theirestrogen.
The estrogen is through theroof.
So they're super emotional andthat's what makes them more
snappy and more hot-headed.
We want to keep it in the rightbalance.
We don't want to bottom it outeither, like a lot of
bodybuilder myths do.
They completely try to wipe outtheir estrogen because they

(17:41):
think it's bad.
We see a lot of side effects.
With that too, memory goes down.
I had one patient who was, youknow, crashed his estrogen for
so many years takinganti-estrogens that he started
having osteoporosis.
I mean, he had bone lossbecause he had no estrogen.
So having the right amount andit can fluctuate in many people
because some guys will say youknow what.

Speaker 1 (18:13):
Their estrogen will be lower, but they have no
libido or it'll be too high.
And they watch a disney movieand they start crying.
So it's really that finebalance.
Wait, I I do cry when I uhwatch some of these movie, but
my, actually my estrogen andtestosterone is is perfect, um
and um.
You know, I don't want peopleto think just, it's not okay to
cry, it's okay, but I guess notuh, to an excessive emotional,
right, uh, sense, that'sinteresting.
So so, um, okay, so it seems tome that a lot of people they

(18:36):
manage their hormones themselves.
First of all, how is that evenpossible?
Like, where do they get thesehormones and how?
Why would they do that?
Why wouldn't they come tosomeone like you, like a
professional?

Speaker 2 (18:48):
Right?
I think a couple of reasons.
One, it could be a cost issue.
I mean, you know, we've got torun regular blood work on people
.
That takes time and we have tosee the doctor.
Hormones aren't something youmess around with.
It's something that reallyneeds to be followed.
I think a lot of people go tothe gym and they're influenced
by people at the gym.
They say, oh, this guy, wow,look at his body, he's ripped,

(19:08):
he looks great.
I just want to be like him.
And so they go and ask him andthey start getting all these.
They use Dr Google and they goon these forums and they kind of
advise you on what dose to useand all that.
But it's really something thatneeds to be monitored.
But also, don't be using stuffthat you get from the guy at
your local gym.
You don't know where it'scoming from.
It may be good, it may be bad,we don't know.

(19:30):
I've seen guys come up withabscesses injecting themselves
with this or they really screwthemselves up and they want a
quick fix.
They think going to a doctormay be too cumbersome, but it's
so important that we watch you,we monitor your levels, we give
you the right amount and it'sbeing followed.
It's not something you want tomess with.
It can be very dangerous too ifit's not done correctly.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yeah, it's very bizarre to me for someone
injecting themselves withparticularly something like
hormones and under nosupervision and having no clue
where the source is.
I mean this is probably themost bizarre thing.
I mean I wouldn't even take apill if someone gave it to me.
I didn't know where it comesfrom if I don't see the bottle

(20:12):
etc.
But I think a lot of it has todo with especially in those
circles.
It's kind of normal.
They look at it as just asupplement as opposed to a
hormone.
Look at it as just a supplementas opposed to a hormone, right?
So let's say, a patient walksinto your office and says hey,
doc, I just don't feel likemyself.
Like where do you start?

Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yep, the first thing we do, let's do some blood,
let's check a blood panel on you, see what's happening in the
body, see if you're deficient inanything, you know, check their
thyroid, their testosterone,estrogen, even check their PSA,
you know, their CBC, chem, allthat stuff to kind of see what's
what's going on in the body.

(20:54):
And we then we set up theconsultation and I think really
a lot of it comes in the history.
So how long have they beenfeeling this for?
What are their symptoms?
How's your sleep?
Do you have sleep apnea?
I mean, there's so many factorsthat we ask that you're
probably your regular doctordoesn't ask, and and we want to
really touch on those things sothat they improve it overall.
But I had a patient this morning.
You know he's 260 pounds nowand his testosterone levels
total was like 200 and he's only34.

(21:17):
And you know he he was abusingsteroids from the gym and all
that.
But I said you know, and hewanted to start right away.
But he came in for blood work.
I said let's get your bloodwork first and see where you're
at.
And I spent like 30, 45 minuteswith him just asking the
history to try to get the besttype of treatment for him.
And so that's really key isunderstanding the history, their
medical problems, themedications they may be taking,

(21:39):
why they feel this way.
Is it because they abusesteroids, or is it just because
they're getting older, and or isit some other factors that are
causing this?
Um, so we we always we don'tnecessarily treat the number all
the time we also treat thepatient.
So you could have a normaltestosterone level let's say
it's 500 and still have thosesymptoms.
Your 500 to you may not be thesame 500 as somebody else you

(22:01):
know.
So for me, like optim,optimally, I feel good around a
thousand.
That's where I feel normal andI have the motivation to do what
I do and have the energy towork out whatever it may be.
But someone else maybe find it800.
I have some guys that onlyfunction at 1200.
It really depends on thepatient and that's why it's so
important to find the history,keep checking the blood work and
then really fine-tuning what,where they need to be at.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
So when you, when you talk about function like
someone functions at that bestsomeone, how does one actually
know if, especially if they'vebeen not functioning well for a
decade and to them that's theirnorm, how would they?
What would they compare it to?
I mean, I guess any guess, whenyou're low, any improvement is

(22:45):
great.
Like, how do you know if youcan actually feel greater than
that improvement that youinitially got, and how do you
find that optimal range for eachindividual?

Speaker 2 (22:56):
Right.
So one thing about testosteroneis like, as we age, we kind of
slowly decrease and kind of justget used to it.
And so I'll ask them questionslike oh, were you as high
function as you were 15 yearsago?
10 years ago, did you have asmuch energy?
Were you working out as much?
Are we able to recover easilyor better at the gym than you
did 10 years ago?

(23:16):
And nine times out of 10, it'sno.
I mean, I don't have the sameenergy, I don't have the same
mental clarity.
And then you ask also people intheir orbit, because people will
say that he's grumpy now.
He is not.
His libido is down, he doesn'twant to, you know, have intimacy
with me or whatever it may be,it may be their significant
other.
And so, asking these Questionsbecause men sometimes don't
realize it because we've gottenso used to it over the years and

(23:37):
we just gradually decline it'simportant that we ask the right
question to see what's whatthey're lacking in.
And sometimes I'll ask them howdid you feel now versus you
know, 20 years ago?
Oh, it's huge different.
You know, I didn't feel thatway, I couldn't do this and that
.
So I think it's, it's settingthe, the, you know the, the
standards here and understandingwhere their baseline or where
they feel the best in is,especially even with their job

(23:58):
performance.
And now we know because our jobI feel like we're just so so
much more stress and more demandthat people need that extra
boost to feel optimal becausethey just feel wiped out by the
end of the week.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
I mean, I'm sure you have patients that are not very
honest about these things, orthey're honest but they're kind
of in denial, which is a verymasculine thing.
Especially the older I feel menget, the more they're in denial
.
Do you ever get their spousesinvolved into getting that

(24:32):
information and how do you bringit up?
How do you involve or bring inthe spouse to get that
information?
Because I think the spousesknow a lot of stuff, since
they're living together, aboutwhat your patient might not
admit or be in denial about 100%.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
And I encourage them to bring their spouse and
sometimes their spouse is theone who makes the appointment
and drags them in and says hey,listen, you need to come in, we
need to figure out what's goingon with you, because something's
not right.
You're grumpy, you don't wantto have intimacy with me,
there's ED, whatever it may be.
So sometimes it's them draggingthem in too.
And I encourage them to come inbecause, like you said, some

(25:11):
men don't want to admit it.
I mean, all the time if theirwife sitting next to them,
they're like no, honey, it'syou're really this, that, this
that you know.
So it's important that theycome in and understand it too.
But that led me into you know,kind of, and sometimes I'll be
treating a woman and she'll belike gosh.
I feel 10 times better.
I need to bring my husband innow because I'm up here, he's
down here.
We're not on the same level.

(25:32):
So it's funny how and it viceversa.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
So it works both ways so and I think for people that
I guess for the female audiencethat's listening, this episode
is not just for men.
It's for women that have men intheir lives and want to help
them and want to think outsideof the box and beyond their

(25:56):
primary care.
So this is interesting, I think, for both sexes.
So this is interesting, I think, for both sexes.
As to the biomarkers and labtests, what are the important
things to note and as far as,for example, total testosterone,
free testosterone and otherbiomarkers that you're looking

(26:16):
for, because I think there's alot of confusion when it comes
to analyzing or ordering theselab studies too, so can you kind
of dive a little bit into that?

Speaker 2 (26:26):
Sure, you know, I think it's all of the above
Testosterone total free, eventheir hemoglobin sometimes,
because I notice a lot of guyswith sleep apnea have higher
hemoglobin levels.
It's almost like training atelevation.
They're not oxygenating it aswell.
So I always follow thehemoglobin and have people do a
phlebotomy if needed.
So it's things like that theirPSA to make sure it's nothing.

(26:48):
With the prostate Thyroid too,we check a lot of thyroid to
make sure their thyroid'soptimal.
I see it more so with women,where we have a lower thyroid,
more thyroid issues with women,obviously.
But for men we want to checkall those biomarkers.
We want to check their cmp,make sure their liver, renal
kidney function is good.
You know I I usually leave thecholesterol and all that to
their primary care doctor.

(27:08):
But I will say that thoseimprove after they get on
hormone therapy because they'remore active they're they're
doing more um.
And then we also check someother biomarkers too, sometimes
like their a1c, to make sureit's not out of range or if we
can improve that.
It really depends on thepatient and we kind of specify
it for the patient depending onwhat their needs are.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
And so what is the importance between measuring?
So, when you look attestosterone levels, what do you
really look for?
Which value do you look for?
And based on the decade of ofage I know we talked a little
bit about everybody lives intheir ideal range and so that
you can't really compare numbersfrom person to person but what
kind of basic guidelines do yougo by within those lab tests,

(27:56):
and which number do you look for?
Do you look for the totaltestosterone, for the free
testosterone, and why is thatimportant?

Speaker 2 (28:04):
Most of the time I check just the total and because
it kind of correlates with thefree a lot of times, unless
they've got a high SHBG leveland they have some sort of liver
issues or something like that.
So I really look at just thetestosterone.
The total is what I mostly lookat most of the time, along with
their estrogen levels right, tomake sure.
But I also correlate along withtheir estrogen levels right To
to make sure.
But I also correlated withtheir symptoms.
So if someone has a 600, 700level and they're like man,

(28:26):
that's a really good level, buthe's still got ED, he's still
tired, he has no libido.
Maybe he functioned at athousand when you know 10, 15
years ago.
Maybe that was his baseline.
So I really go based on thesymptoms as well, not just the
number.
The numbers are great becauseit helps me kind of adjust the
dosing for the patient, but Ialways say treat the patient,

(28:49):
not always the number.

Speaker 1 (28:50):
So it seems like a baseline is important.
It's important to establish abaseline early.
So do you recommend youngerpatients in their 20s or 30s to
come in to get their hormonestested to, and not just to see
if there's any issues, but alsoto establish a baseline for
their future?

(29:10):
Is this something you recommendor you think?
Yeah, it would be a good thing,but not really necessary?

Speaker 2 (29:17):
yeah, it's a good thing, not necessarily unless
they're having symptoms.
I'm seeing more and morepatients in their you know, 20s,
30s and 30s now that are havingsymptoms and sometimes they do
have low testosterone.
Now, testosterone I wouldn'tnecessarily just start them on
actual TRT yet Sometimes I tryto say can we modify your
lifestyle?
What's causing it?
Or we put them on sometestosterone supplements or

(29:37):
boosters to kind of stimulatetheir own body production again.
Right, we don't just want tojump into TRT right away, but I
think it's good to at least geta baseline.
If you have the symptoms, askyour doctor hey, doc, can we
just can we check our test?
Can I check my testosterone?
See where I'm at?
I think all men should be doingthat.
It should be part of everydoctor's.
You know battery, a test thatwe do If we're running a CBC and

(29:57):
a chem on them.
Yeah, they're.
Whatever it is, why aren't wechecking the men's testosterone?
It baffles, baffles me.
But I see why.
It's probably because theydon't know how to treat it.
They don't know what to.
Okay, I got a low value orwhatever it is.
What do I do with it?
And so it's it's.
It needs to be educated more, Ithink, among healthcare
professionals that it's okay tocheck, you know, testosterone

(30:18):
levels on patients and we shouldbe doing that regularly.

Speaker 1 (30:20):
Do you know if there's anything happening in
that department in our currentmedical school education?
Is that now integrated or stillnot?

Speaker 2 (30:29):
I still don't think it is.
I deal with.
You know, new graduate internalmedicine docs all the time
still don't check a testosteroneunless their patient asks for
it.
And the reason they ask for itis really because of podcasts.
Like you're doing it, they'rehearing about what we're talking
about and they're saying hey,doc, you know I heard I should
be checking the testosterone.
Can we do that?
That's the only reason thatdoctors are doing it.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
Well, I have patients that said they asked their
doctor to check theirtestosterone and their doctor
literally told them that it'snot necessary and they were
fighting with them and then sothey ended up going to one of
these direct-to-consumer labslike Function Health or what's
the other one Inside Tracker.
They just do their ownbiomarkers and then they go and

(31:11):
shop for doctors that understand, like you and do.
You have sometimes patientscome to your office that had
already direct-to-consumer labtesting and say, hey, here's my
lab and fix me up.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
Yeah, you see that trend.
Yeah, and I do.
I do get that.
But I also tell these patientsyou know you really want someone
that you can see, maybe inperson.
More so I think telehealth itworks sometimes if you have a
really good doctor thatunderstands.
No.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
I'm not talking about telehealth.
I'm literally talking aboutgetting their labs.
Oh, the labs, just labs, justgetting their biomarkers and
then going physically to adoctor to break it down and kind
of guide them.
Yes, yes, that's, that's.

Speaker 2 (31:46):
I see that a lot.
Now They'll bring it into meand they'll say hey, I did this
online test, look what I havehere.
But if you bring it to yourregular doctor, I think you're
going to be blown off.
I really do.

Speaker 1 (31:55):
I think your, your regular internist is just going
to be like, okay, well sorryBecause, honestly, you know, a
couple of years ago I startedjust doing my own labs and just
getting more of the biomarkersthan the traditional CBC and BMP
that my primary care takes,just because I wanted to get to

(32:19):
the bottom of things.
And you know, my testosteronelevel was actually always normal
, was within range, was evenhigher for my age group, which
is I'm 51 now.
So I started changing mylifestyle habits and I want to
also now kind of segue into whatcan one do to improve their

(32:39):
testosterone and hormones levelswithout particular hormone
therapy, just with other methods, and I want you to talk about
those so I could tell you,coincidentally, how my
testosterone levels went upwithout hormone therapy.

(33:00):
And it was an accidental thingwhere I just changed my
lifestyle.
I ate clean, I reduced umeating uh, fats and starches, I
my performance increased.
So I went to the gym a lot, Ibulked up on muscle mass and all
those things, and then mytestosterone levels they went up
by 30%.

(33:21):
Wow, and I was surprised, andso I know I'm N of one.
So I don't know whether, gosh,one could even argue it was a
lab error, but the trend isgoing up because I did three
tests.
Talk to us a little bit aboutwhat one can do today, literally

(33:42):
at their home, to work towardsimprovement, or, if they have,
if they don't have lowtestosterone levels or hormone
levels, how they can maintainand sustain that level into the,
into the next decade, yeah well, I think there's a few things
one is like you're doing.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
Is is really doing the resistance training and
exercise, particularly in thelower body.
A lot of guys neglect the lowerbody but you know we need to
increase blood flow below thewaist.
I tell guys our biggest musclesare there.
You're going to increase bloodflow to the, the growing area,
which which helps stimulatethings.
I actually I tell them that ifthey have ed is to do more lower
body exercise, squatting,everything to get blood flow

(34:19):
moving.
Uh, I think, like you,improving our diet is huge.
I think what we've beenpolluted with so many things.
I just got back from Asia.
I'm like why is?
everybody here.
So thin and like nobody's fathere.
Right, you know they, I knowthey walk more, but like it's
what the content in our food is.
So eating clean number.

Speaker 1 (34:34):
Yeah, you can't out walk a bad diet, so I'm pretty
sure it's more of the diet thananything.

Speaker 2 (34:39):
It's more of the diet , what's in our food, I would
say that.
But at number three, sleep.
I mean we're not getting asmuch sleep.
We're on our phones, we'reseeing that blue light.
It's hitting us.
We're waking up several times anight.
Sleep apnea is a big one that Isee that a lot of guys are
underdiagnosed with.
You know you need to make sure.
Ask your spouse or whomever aremy snoring a lot, because maybe
that's what's driving your testthat's what how I noticed I had

(35:00):
low testosterone for me becauseI had sleep apnea.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
It's not because I was overweight, it's more
functional thing for me.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
But I had sleep apnea and I'm like that's why my
testosterone levels are in thegutter.
I wasn't getting good sleep, Iwasn't oxygenating at night.
So sleep is hugely important.
And then you know, gettingsunlight, vitamin d, all these
things that help us naturally to, to help improve our immunity
and improve our health, reallyhelp with the testosterone.
And, like you, I do see 20, 30%inclines.

(35:25):
Once a patient will changetheir lifestyle and start paying
attention more to these littlethings that could influence
their testosterone levels.
So very important.
And giving up drinking I mean Idon't drink alcohol and I tell
people to try not to drink somuch.
I think it ages you quicker andI think there's more side
effects with it.
I can tell their skin doesn'tlook as good.
I mean you know more about itthan me, but yeah, I think it's,

(35:46):
it's big.

Speaker 1 (35:47):
It's interesting that you mentioned those points
because I could tell you thefirst thing that I did more is,
um, do more, focus more on lowerbody, which I traditionally
hated and I still hate it.
Um, and I never did anythingfor like I hated like days, but
I started integrating that,especially doing squats.
Um.

(36:08):
The other thing is Isignificantly cut down on
alcohol.
I would drink like maybe threeor four glasses of wine a week
and one might might say, well,that's nothing, I do, like
double, and that that's normal.
It isn't.
I mean, you know, we now it'sbeen established that alcohol is
just bad for you.
It doesn't matter one glass or10 glasses, alcohol is just bad.

(36:29):
And so that's one thing Ireduced.
And the other thing is I makesure I get more sleep.
So I traditionally used to getabout six hours of sleep and now
I make sure at least I getseven and a half to eight hours
of sleep.
And actually I saw my cortisollevel significantly drop and my

(36:51):
hscrp level significantly drop,which are all signs of stress
reduction and and so you look atthose.
It totally makes sense and um,it's, it's just something that,
if you talk to the patient aboutit.
How do you?
How should I say it?
How do you say it without themnot thinking that this is like

(37:12):
woo-woo signs, or you don'tsound like a broken record and
they're like well, I know, mymom told me I need to eat
healthy and exercise, blah, blah, blah, blah.
How do you really, I guess, getthem to do it?

Speaker 2 (37:27):
Yeah, it's cliche I know, yeah, it's totally cliche
it is, but sometimes our parentsdo best, and these are things
that have been passed downgenerations right.

Speaker 1 (37:34):
More like grandparents.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
Right, get some rest when you're sick versus just
thrown out.
You know you don't besurprisingly not.
A lot of doctors will ask thosetypes of things instead of just
telling them oh, get bettersleep, exercise, good luck.
I asked him how are yousleeping Like when you go to
sleep?
Are you really getting eighthours?
How many times do you wake up?
Do you snore?
I mean, these are questions thatwe need to ask our patients,

(37:56):
beyond just saying telling themto get more sleep.
You exercise, okay.
What type of exercises do youdo?
How often Are you doingresistance training?
Are you just doing theelliptical and doing cardio?
And if they'd say that I saidyou really need, at your age, to
start integrating things thatadd more muscle mass to you.
By adding muscle mass now,we're going to reduce
osteoporosis, heart disease,diabetes, all these different

(38:17):
things.
I think it's in the questioningthat we do for our patients to
ask them little details and notjust tell them diet, exercise,
diet, exercise, eat better, goto the gym more.
We need to ask them whatthey're doing and then give them
pointers on what they can do tohelp themselves optimize all of
these little aspects thatthey're taking part in.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
A hundred percent.
And one thing I also consider,which is actually based on
studies they've done when askingpatients about their diet and
about their exercise over 80%over-report their exercise
habits and their good diethabits Over 80%.
And it's shocking, because it'snot that they're lying, they're

(39:00):
just under the wrong perception.
They believe they're doingbetter or they're doing more
than they're actually doing.
I think that creates a lot ofdisconnect between us telling
them what they should be doingand them thinking well, I'm
already doing that, I'm alreadydoing a great job, then nothing

(39:21):
will change and the needle won'tmove Correct.
And so I haven't figured out howto address it other than just
specifically asking them okay,so you exercise four days a week
.
Exactly what are you doing andhow many minutes each day do you
exercise?
And now I get into the bottomof exactly what they're doing

(39:41):
and then get them to realizethat, oh shoot, I'm actually not
doing that well.
And so it requires spending alot of time with them, a lot of
Q&A, to get to the bottom of it.
And so how much time, onaverage would you say, do you
spend with your patients?
Of course it depends on howmuch they already know and how

(40:03):
much they understand, or whetherthis is completely new to them.
They just crawled from under arock or even patients that are
skeptic do you, you know?
Or skeptic, or even cynic?

Speaker 2 (40:14):
yeah, I mean initially.
Sometimes we spend I mean I'min the patient room and doing,
talking to them or doingwhatever sometimes over an hour
initially, just to figure outwhat's going on and we follow up
with them in six weeks for moreblood work and for more an
update on how they're doing, andwe want to guide them too in
finding the right resources forthem, and maybe sometimes they
do need a trainer to realizethat the way they're training

(40:35):
currently is not really like yousaid.
it's not as good as they thinkit should be, really like you
said.
It's not as good as they thinkit should be, because with
hormone therapy and all this, weshould be seeing results rather
quickly If you are exercisingcorrectly, if you're doing the
right amount of workouts andeating correctly.
If not, something else is goingon.
And you know, and now we've gotthis whole, you know, glp one,
those epic kind of craze Nowthat we're seeing it's like

(40:57):
people are cheating even moreand thinking they don't need a
workout and they're doing allthese GLPs and they're losing
muscle mass and they're you know, they're losing weight, but
they're losing all this musclemass too.
So it's become this whole likeyeah, it's a wild west.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
It's not any different than people getting
their testosterone elsewhere.
It's what the GLPs do.
I mean, they can get itanywhere If it's not under
supervision of a doctor.
You know, I treat my obesepatients preoperatively with
GLPs, but we have a very strictcriteria for starting them.
I have all my patients submit afood diary for about four weeks

(41:36):
and their exercise schedule,and if they consistently perform
well, then we will start themon it and then we'll continue to
monitor.
So we keep them honest, or elsewe just don't give it to them
or if we gave it to them, wetake it away from them because

(41:57):
of the things you mentioned.
I think we have a biggerresponsibility than just writing
a prescription or giving them adrug and thinking it will do
the thing, because we're our ownworst enemy here and we could
make or break things.
But what do you all yoursuccess stories, your patients
that have figured it out, whatdo they all have in common and

(42:22):
what percentage of the patientsthat you see fit in that group
you would say?

Speaker 2 (42:28):
I would say you know, the majority of them are happy
and they're they're.
They're feeling like they havea second chance again, they feel
like their life they alwaysdescribe it, they're all in yes,
it's, life-changing, it's it'sit's improved them, not just
physically and stopped all that.
It's improved them mentally.
It's improved the relationshipsthey're in um and those are

(42:50):
really good.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
Yeah, yeah, it's.
That's.
The best success story is whenthey said they're a different
person.

Speaker 2 (42:54):
Now I'm a changed person, I'm a new person and I
feel better about myself.
I have confidence again.
People around me love me again.
You know, uh, that's reallywhat.
What I really look forward to,it's not just the physical
aspects and looking you knowmuscular, you know, looking
great Um, that's, I think, abyproduct, but it's how they
feel and everybody around themthat's telling them that you are

(43:15):
a better person.

Speaker 1 (43:16):
now it's amazing.
It's amazing because last weekI had a patient and I always now
focus on a more comprehensive,holistic way to assess my
patients, more than a CBC or aPMP, preoperatively what used to
be the standard or still is andthis patient told me that he's

(43:36):
on hormone therapy.
I'm like, oh great, like underwhose care are you?
Because I want to know ifthey're getting it off the black
market or they're really beingtreated by someone like you.
And he was really being treatedby a legit clinic that I knew
is local.
I said that's fantastic.
And then he started tearing upand he said it saved my marriage

(43:57):
, it saved my life, it made youknow he was I wouldn't say he
was suicidal, but he was almosta brink of just letting things
go just because he couldn't gethis life together, he couldn't
get his marriage, was fallingapart for all the reasons that

(44:20):
we talked about.
And for me to see this grownman being beyond excited, to the
point he got emotional andsaying it saved his life and he
saved his marriage and his wifewas sitting right next to him
and I could feel that energy.
I was like man.

(44:40):
I mean what a responsibilityyou have as a doctor.
It goes beyond just makingsomeone feel good you are, you
are fixing relationships.
I mean, we're talking about twopeople that at some point fell
in love, assumably, and gotmarried, have multiple children

(45:00):
and all of a sudden, you know,they part ways.
People saying, well, you knowirreconcilable differences and
stuff like that.
But how much of that is reallybased on hormone dysregulations?

Speaker 2 (45:17):
you know, it's funny, you see it, both men and women,
by the way yeah, because we seeit when, when women start going
through menopause, they startchanging jobs.
They have depression, they'reyou know, their husband wants to
leave them because they'rethey're they're emotionally, you
know, distressed, whatever itmay be.
But, um, yes, we see that allthe time with in terms of how
they've changed internally andhow it really influences their

(45:39):
mood.
And how often, if you went to aregular doctor and told them
those symptoms here's zoloft,here's prozac, here's um effects
or whatever it may be can youjust stop for a minute and maybe
check their hormones.
Perhaps that's what it may beLike, instead of just being
reactive and throwing everyantidepressant, like you're
taught to these patients, maybecheck and see if it's hormonal

(46:02):
and maybe that's what they'remissing, and giving that back is
going to change their life andbring them back to normal.

Speaker 1 (46:08):
It's so sad.
Yeah, this is, I mean I couldtell your story.
I went with my wife to backthen, like many years ago, 10
years ago, when we just met.
She says I got to go to my newdoctor and get my thyroid
medicine and I said, well, I'llcome with you, you know.
So I went there and wasliterally sitting there and it
was a new doctor, so took a newHNP and everything.

(46:31):
And she didn't't know her doctor, didn't know that I'm a doctor,
I was just sitting there, Idon't like to kind of get
involved.
And then she, my wife, was likeyeah, you know, I'm here for my
prescription, for to get arefill, my thyroid prescription,
and you know, I haven't had mythyroid medicine in three days
now I feel really tired and uh,you know, um, you know my mood,

(46:54):
it's affected my mood andeverything.
And then so the doctor waslistening, she was writing
things down.
She's like, hmm, um, have youever thought of, uh,
antidepressant, I might describeyou.
And also I was on my phone,just like reading something, and
I looked up and said whathappened, what happened, I swear
to God.
So I said, excuse me, did yousay antidepressant?

(47:17):
And my wife, she threw a fitBack then.
She wasn't my wife, she was myfiance.
She threw a fit.
She's like excuse me, I justtold you I have Hashimoto's.
I've been on thyroid medicinefor 10 years.
I'm here for a refill.
I'm not here forantidepressants.
I don't have depression, as amatter of fact, I'm very happy,
yeah.

(47:38):
And so the doctor startedarguing.
She's like well, I'm not sosure, your symptoms, the things
that you've been telling me.
And then I kind of I didn'tflip out.
I said, look, just, you know,don't worry about it, we can
just find someone else.
Thank you very, very much.
We literally got up and leftand I was like I just can't
believe it.
I was so embarrassed in frontof my wife that that actually

(48:01):
happened, because there's nowonder that patients lose trust
and start going rogue because ofexperiences like that.
Yes, 100%.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
I mean, how sad is that, isn't it?
Yeah, we've come to this now,where, you know, I see it all
the time with family membersthat go visit their GP or their
regular doctor about how theywant to start them on all these
like medications right away,statins and and and and,
antidepressants and all this.
I'm like hold up, hold up.
Did they talk about maybeexercising first, changing your

(48:31):
diet or whatever it may be?
It's really sad that it's justand I think a lot of it's
influenced by, maybe a lot oftimes, pharmaceuticals.
They're saying, if your patientjust says they're unhappy or
whatever, maybe boom.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
Check a box.
Yeah, check a box here's a drug.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
Good luck.

Speaker 1 (48:46):
Yeah, they don't understand these things have
side effects.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
Yeah, no kidding it can make things worse for them.

Speaker 1 (48:52):
There's a lot of preventative things when it
comes to, like, diet andexercise simply to, for example,

(49:18):
raise your serotonin levels,which they've done.
Comparative studies to SSRIs,and you know, those remedies
beat them all day long, but youknow so, but people don't know
that because the doctors don'tknow these things.
The studies are out there, it'snot really a secret, and so I

(49:40):
think the consumer is starting,hopefully, to get smarter and
doing their own due diligencebefore getting on those SSRIs in
particular, which I'm curiousto see what the next several
years teach us about the truthabout these SSRIs.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
Well, I think we're on the brink of that now.
I think we have RFK in officewho's a big proponent of natural
remedies, hormone therapy,peptides and all that.
So I think we're kind ofbreaking through that.
The more exposure we do likewhat we're doing, I think more
and more people are.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
Yeah, I'm excited about new signs emerging in
those departments.
You know we do have signs, butreally more controls, uh data on
larger uh subjects and subjectgroups.
But you know, um, we talk a lotabout hormones and as they're
related to mood and as relatedto erectile dysfunction, and

(50:33):
even saving the marriage.
But how about saving yourhealth, you know?
So erectile dysfunction do youthink it can be the first sign
for something that's moreserious, like cardiovascular

(50:56):
disease?
Do you ever connect that, whensomeone comes with erectile
dysfunction also to check ifthey have cardiovascular disease
, could it be the first sign?

Speaker 2 (51:04):
Absolutely.
I think it's a window to thebody.
You know, ophthalmologists willsay the eyes are a window to
the body, because if something'swrong there but I also think
the way they function down thereis also a sign.
Now you have to determine is itpossibly mental?
Is it from medications they'reon?
Is it from drugs, is it fromwhatever it may be, or is it
just unhealthy?
But I tell guys, if that's notworking, something else is going

(51:25):
on in the body, something isnot right, something needs to be
corrected.
You need to start getting, andthat sometimes is the spark to
get men to start exercising andchanging their lifestyle again.
Because you know women, it'smore about beauty and all that
for them.
But guys, we want to make surewe function down there, you know
.
So I tell them, if you don'tuse it you'll lose it, and so

(51:45):
that usually kicks them in thebutt, gets them going yeah,
that's a, that's a masculinepride.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
But you know, sexual health is definitely the cannery
in the coal mine.
You know, sure, something isoff this, really just about sex
it's.
It's to me, I think, it'stypically a system, wide message
, absolutely, and, um, you know,I don't know, um, if you know,
do you ever uh, feel it'swarranted to get maybe a calcium

(52:11):
score or, you know, a moredetailed cardiovascular
examination with these patients?
Is this part of your protocol?
At what point would you say youwould order that?

Speaker 2 (52:22):
Yeah, well, I mean, if I do see any of those signs
in a patient, I do encouragethem to, you know, refer back to
their primary, to theircardiologist, to get this done.
I'll refer a lot of people forsleep studies, um, because I
think it's underdiagnosed, thesleep apnea, all these little
things that we see.
Uh, sometimes these men don'twant to talk about it with their
doc, or they talk abouterectile dysfunction and it's

(52:44):
immediate.
Here's Viagra, good luck, youknow.
So I will try to refer them tothe right people and to get,
have them do the those type oftests, calcium scores sometimes
we even do, like the prunovo,mris and all these type of
different things that we want toencourage our patients to get
ahead of their health.
Um, so they can be proactive init, certainly.

Speaker 1 (53:04):
I actually did a podcast with the ceo of prunovo
and I did that.
Yeah, it's, I think it's uh twofrom two months ago.
Uh, feel free to listen to that.
I do prenuva scans every year.
I just want to be ahead of thegame.
I'm not one of those that isscared to know the truth or find
out, because I like to kill themonster while it's little and I

(53:25):
don't like to wait for a tumorto grow the size of a tennis
ball or a football to treat it.
But many argue against it.
They think it's too much.
But look to each their own.
I mean, you can check your oillevels or your gas levels on
your car and top them off beforeyou hit the bottom.

(53:45):
I'm just not that guy.
But I think everybody has tolook for themselves.
But let's shift gears here alittle bit, because one thing I
know you've definitely beenahead of the curve on the
cutting-edge therapies, and nowI know you stay on top of the
latest biohacks and longevitytools.

(54:06):
What's got you most excitedright now when it comes to the
next-gen therapies?

Speaker 2 (54:15):
Yeah, well, several things I think we're starting to
see and it's difficult because,you know, in the United States
we're somewhat limited but whatI hear about around the world…
what do you mean by that?
Well, for things like stemcells, even Like we're starting
to see more emerging you know Idon't want to cures because
that's kind of a taboo word inmedicine we're seeing a lot of

(54:36):
better treatments, treatments,yeah, treatments for stem cells,
these types of emergingtreatments that are, I want to
say, more allowed or moreliberal in other countries to do
.
I think that's huge.
I wish we could I don't want tosay experiment with it, but
conduct more studies here to seehow those things help.
The peptides are huge now too, Iknow that they were somewhat

(54:59):
banned by the FDA for beingmanufactured, but I think that
was.
I think there was ulteriormotives behind that to get them.
It's probably more politicalthan anything, you know.
I think it had to do with, youknow, economical reasons as well
, because you know we wereseeing such great results with
patients and peptides and theywere healing quicker.
They were with less side effectsof the medications they would

(55:21):
get just from their localdrugstore.
So I think that's going tobecome the next thing with
generations is finding thesepeptides.
Because they're so specific, wecan kind of tailor it to the
individual patient.
That's going to be big.
Even the things like, um, we'reseeing with uh, I'm seeing more
with, like the ozone therapy uh, it's kind of growing as well.
Um, it's one thing I really wantto start integrating into my

(55:43):
practice, because we've seen alot of people with long covid or
people that were injured from acertain shot, if you, if you
will, um, we're seeing a lotmore, uh, people with side
effects.
So I think there's a lot ofemerging therapies that are
going to be helpful, andincluding the things you can
just do at home the coldplunging, the red light therapy
but I think we're still on theverge of doing even just

(56:05):
hormones.
I think it's becoming so muchmore accepted now, and when I
visit other countries they don'treally have this yet.
We're kind of ahead of thecurve here, but I think it's
becoming more accepted and we'regoing to start seeing people
live not only longer but betterquality of life.
The more people we could get tooptimize their hormones, the
more it becomes more popularizedand I feel like it already is

(56:25):
in the media, which is a goodthing, and people are starting
to catch on more to that and Ihopefully we can start bringing
some of the other integrativetherapies like the stem cells
hopefully eventually if we will,but um yeah, I think those are,
I think we're.

Speaker 1 (56:39):
Yeah, and any, any peptides on your radar that you
would like to, or that youalready integrated in your
practice, or that you would liketo, that sound promising to you
, that you would like to seemore research on yeah, I think
any of the peptides that boostgrowth hormone levels naturally
are great, because obviously,when we boost our growth hormone
levels, we see, you know,increased muscle mass, longevity

(57:01):
, less fat.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
You know even the copper peptide.
A lot of ladies are liking todo the copper now because they
find it works well for theirskin and collagen production.
There's some other ones, Ithink, that work well too, that
we and in collagen production.
There's some other ones I thinkthat work well too, like
BPC-157, I think is a great onefor healing post-op.
Usually a lot of people usethat with the copper peptides
post-op to help their woundsheal quicker, whether it's
orthopedic, whether it's plastic.

(57:24):
They notice a big differencewhen they use those type of
peptides.
Holy cow, I really healedquickly, and sometimes doctors
will call me and be like, hey,can you get my patient on this
before and after?
Because they're healing faster,and so I think surgeons are
going to start, I think they'regoing to start using it more too
in their practice, or send themto people like myself to start
doing it.
Oh, yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
I already know surgeons.
I actually did a podcast withMatt Thompson, an orthopedic
surgeon friend of mine, who isusing bpc for 157 and copper in
in exactly what you saidpost-operatively and seeing
amazing acceleration in thewhole healing and regeneration
process.
And, um, you know, I thinkother countries like, I think,
mexico or brazil they are really, uh, using those, um, have been

(58:08):
using those with a lot of data.
But I totally agree, agree withyou.
I think there's so muchpromising stuff out there.
We need more controlled humantrials to convince, first of all
, convince us what we have seenclinically, from an
observational standpoint andtalking about it anecdotally, to

(58:30):
have evidence, to make sureit's not confirmation bias,
right, um, I think we owe thatto to approach this
scientifically.
But then again, we scienceneeds funding and I think up
until now, hopefully, with rfkuh in charge, we get more
financing for for studies likethat, which I think everybody

(58:51):
will benefit from it.
And to the cynics out there,it's like, hey, look, unless we
look for evidence we won't know.
So let's not debate uh rightnow.
Let let that history teach us,like it has with all the other
stuff.
You know, one of the biggest, Ithink I think disasters in

(59:12):
medicine has been the hormonetherapy for women, the HRT study
.

Speaker 2 (59:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:22):
Yeah, like what was it 25 years ago?
Yeah, I mean, that was, I think, wasn't it like the most
expensive study of all time,like something like $2 billion?
What a disaster yes, what adisaster.
I mean, whole generation ofbaby boomers were omitted and I

(59:43):
believe for for female hormones.
I know we're talking about male, but for female hormones.
I think the window is likeabout five to ten years where
you can get them on it to makethe difference and reduce their
chance for stroke or cardiacevents in the future.

Speaker 2 (59:58):
Yeah, I mean they were using equine derived and
using synthetic hormones.
Now we have the bioidenticals,but unfortunately it's just
stuck around, and so when youhear doctors calling me I
literally had a Kaiser doctorcall me the day just ream me a
new one about how I should youknow you shouldn't be using
hormones are going to causecancer and heart attacks and all
this, and it just.
I'm just like I didn't evenwant to argue, it's just okay,

(01:00:20):
you know, if that's what youthink, you know they were
referring to the studies from 25years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
Yeah, that's sad, but but talk to us quickly.
You mentioned something aboutthe different types of hormones
by identical versus.
So can you, can you?
There's a lot of confusion inthat with with a lot of people
can you kind of?

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
explain those terms yes, so easiest way to look at
it is like this when you go geta birth control pill or you, you
know, when people look at thebirth control packaging, it's
always some weird chemicalhormonal name levo, norgestrel,
syntholol, whatever.
It is Something you can'tpronounce.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
If you can't pronounce it, that's it.
You can't pronounce it.
Right, that's it.
That's the one.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
Right, that's synthetic.
But if you have something likeestrogen, testosterone,
progesterone, those arenaturally found in your body,
those are what your bodynaturally makes.
So when you saybioidenticalical, you're
matching the hormone one for one.
It's the same one that you'reusing versus a synthetic which
may have extra I don't knowelement of carbons or whatever

(01:01:22):
hydroxyl, whatever you knowthose, but they're all made in
the lab, they're all right, andso those aren't considered
bioidentical, um meaning it'snot like the human body produces
right so why would they makethe other ones?

Speaker 1 (01:01:36):
then you can patent, because you can patent it.
Oh, this is okay, monetize it.
Actually, muller is talkinghere, I see.

Speaker 2 (01:01:45):
Okay, that's good to know you can't patent a hormone
it's already found in nature,just like they can't patent
marijuana, right, it's alreadyfound in nature it's kind of
like ozempic and semi-glutides.

Speaker 1 (01:01:56):
Right, right, right that you can easily compound it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:59):
The active ingredient , yes, versus adding a side
chain and calling it somethingexactly a side chain yeah,
that's what it is and those sidechains come with side effects
interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:02:10):
Yeah, is there any studies that compare one with
the other?

Speaker 2 (01:02:15):
I don't think so I mean, who would fund that right
exactly?
Who's gonna fund it right?
That's, that's kind of thesecret.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
Yeah, let me shoot myself on my own foot and fund
this study real quick.

Speaker 2 (01:02:25):
Right cause my business to crash, oh my.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
God.

Speaker 2 (01:02:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:29):
I think, man, you clearly walk the talk.
I think I can tell the vastknowledge you have about these
things.
To me, this is the essence ofwhat medicine should look like,
and it's the more I get into itit becomes my world.

(01:02:51):
I feel now I'm so deep intothis bubble that I just can't
fathom.
I'm too far away fromconventional medicine now that
sometimes it makes me a littlebit angry, to be honest.
But that is what motivates me,and it motivated me enough to

(01:03:12):
write a book on, at least for myown field, how to integrate all
of this functional medicineinto my aesthetic practice so
that patients don't just lookgood but also feel good, and
vice versa.
If they feel good, they come tome and want to look good.
That's what actually rose myawareness to do it both ways,

(01:03:33):
and you know we need moredoctors like you doing that.
Yeah, awareness to do it bothways.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
We need more doctors like you doing that.

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
Yeah, I think it's coming, I think the time has
come, I think more.
I can't tell you that there isnot a day when a patient comes
to my office and I don't knowwhether it's a national
selection process.
That's why they find me.
They always say like finds,like they're not aware about
these things.
And so, especially themiddle-aged one in their late

(01:03:59):
40s and 50s, especially the men,more so than the women.
There is so much bro talk goingon and so much awareness in
that department that I don'thave a middle-aged man come into
my office that still lives ontheir rock, and to me that's a
testament that I think the cat'sout of the bag.

(01:04:19):
Good People are waking up, yeah,so that's cool.
I love what you do and how youaddress it.
But let's talk about now aboutthe brain function, how it
affects brain function, mood andand the role of testosterone in
that equation.

(01:04:40):
You've mentioned how, you know,optimized hormones can boost,
you know, clarity and mood,initially with your patients.
What's the connection betweentestosterone and mental health?
You know, is low testosteronethe real reason why so many men
feel anxious or tired or moody?
Uh, above the age of 35, howmuch of it is testosterone?

(01:05:00):
And kind of um educate us alittle bit.

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
Yeah, certainly it could be definitely could be a
factor um, it could, you know,be related to that, and I think
a lot of times, you know, beingon testosterone boosts your mood
because it helps boostneurotransmitters to the brain,
blood flow to the brain.
It's the male hormone thatreally vitalizes us and makes us
feel like men.
That's why when we're in ourearly twenties like teens, early

(01:05:24):
twenties we have so much moreenergy, we have more mental
clarity, we're able to, we'rehappier, I guess.
But yes, it does.
It does boost a lot of theneurotransmitters to the brain.
So we have less depression, andin women too, it's for both.
I don't want to just limit tomen, but we do see it that in
both men and women, theincreased blood flow,
neurotransmitters everythingincreases after that and that's

(01:05:46):
why a lot of my patients are offable to get off a lot of their
antidepressants.

Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
Got it and so okay.
So, yeah, I want to wrap thisup with something super
practical, kind of to bring itall together.
If a guy's listening right nowfeeling run down or stuck, what
are a few simple steps he can dotoday to reclaim his health
over the next like 90 days?

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
Yeah so, first and foremost, I think, you know, you
got to make a commitment toyourself and to commit to the
lifestyle change If you are, ifyou're not living that optimal
lifestyle.
Number two, you need to go toyour doctor If you're feeling
that way to figure out what theproblem is and ask them to run
your hormones, ask them to runyour thyroid, whatever it may be

(01:06:31):
, and have them sit down withyou to explain, if they can,
what's going on in the humanbody.
But being proactive and gettingmotivated to do that.
Now, a lot of times men,they're so low in their
testosterone they can't get themotivation to do that, to start
exercising again or whatever itmay be.
So maybe you do need to go getyour levels checked.
But go get your levels checked,find out what's going on.

(01:06:53):
If you know and you feel inyour heart something's wrong, we
know our own bodies better thananybody Ask the people around
you, you know, if they'venoticed a difference in you as
you age.
So really take that firstinitiative, that first step and
go check yourself out.

Speaker 1 (01:07:06):
Thanks, christopher, that was phenomenal.
I really I can't believe it'salready time I could talk to you
for hours and, um, I will pickyour brain in the future.
But thank you for sharing yourinsight and your experience and
giving men real hope that agingdoesn't have to mean decline.
Um, that's was my personalexperience and that's why I'm

(01:07:27):
deep into this, and if you'relistening and you're tired of
feeling like a shell of who youused to be, this is your wake-up
call.
Guys, you don't need to acceptfatigue like I didn't, low sex
drive or brain fog as normal,whatever normal means.
You just feel you know, justneed the right tools and the

(01:07:48):
right guidance and just makesure you follow Dr Sandra online
.
Check out his clinic If you'rein California, if you want to go
there I mean, he is right inBeverly Hills and, as always,
don't forget to subscribe andshare this episode with someone
who needs to hear it, and thisis also for the women in our
audience.

(01:08:09):
So, chris, how can people getin touch with you if they want
to hit?

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
you up.
You know, I know.
Go to my website.
It's asandramd.
A-s-a-n-d-r-a-m-d dot com ora-s-a-n-d-r-a-m-d at Instagram.
Just follow me there and get incontact with me thank you,
chris.

Speaker 1 (01:08:24):
Until next time, guys , stay strong, stay curious and
stay Stay Optimized.
Bye-bye.

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Hormone Optimization: The Key to Male Vitality - with Dr. Christopher Asandra

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Hormone Optimization: The Key to Male Vitality - with Dr. Christopher Asandra