Shaping the Next Generation of Plastic Surgeons with Dr. Ben Talei

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
All right, everyone, welcome to another great episode
of the Dariah Hammer podcast.
Today's guest is very specialto me just because he is in a
similar branch of business andmedicine and he is actually at
the forefront of our field andI'm very proud to have him here

(00:23):
on my podcast to share hisperspective and experience with
us.
So stay tuned.
Dr Ben Tellay, out of BeverlyHills, california, who is a
native of California.
He graduated with a degree inphysiological sciences from UCLA
and then went on and actuallystudied abroad in Spain.

(00:45):
So I'm curious to hear what hewould let him to travel to Spain
for education, where he workedfor the sisterhood of blood
donors at the Red Crosspromoting donations, blood
donations in Andalutia, spain,at the University of Mendez
Pelaio, mendez Pelaio in Spain,and then took his talents to
back to California, went to UCSDin San Diego where he got his

(01:09):
MD, and then came to the EastCoast, to New York, and did his
residency at Columbia Cornell,new York Presby Hospital in Head
and Neck Surgery and ENT andthen further did a fellowship
with world renowned surgeon DrStephen Perlman, as well as
fellowship in reconstructivesurgery, sloan Kettering Cancer

(01:33):
Center where he trained with DrMilton Wainer.
Did I pronounce it right at theVascular Birthmark Institute of
New York and Manhattan Eye andEar.
So he has a vast experience inboth aesthetic medicine and
reconstructive, had neck surgeryand something that is very

(01:54):
unique, you know, usually mostyoung surgeons they branch out
early, but he did it all, andnot only that.
He's an amazing entrepreneurand very interesting person.
He has a.
He's a great educator andmentor to many surgeons all

(02:15):
across the world, as well asmyself from the distance
watching his content and hisamazing surgical videos, which
are one of the most educationalthat I've come across in my
career, and so I'm very proudand honored to have him on the
show.
Ben welcome from California.

(02:35):
Thank you that?

Speaker 2 (02:36):
was the most impressive introduction anyone's
ever given me anyway.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
Well, I just summed up the facts.
So that's your own work andyour own doing so.
I didn't want to cut it anyshort because I think every
experience in our lives and ourcareers there are significant
for who we have become and ourabilities and who we can inspire

(03:01):
.
So I want to delve deeper intohow your path evolved, because
we have a lot of listeners thatyou know, as you yourself are
educator currently and educatingyoung, from young students to
already well seasoned surgeons.
They all come to us withquestions of how to do certain
things or why we made a certaindecision, even though it's

(03:24):
unique to you and unique to eachindividual.
You know, I think there are alot of lessons to learn.
Not everybody has to reinventthe wheel.
We can just.
You know, one of my models isjust look at what successful
people have done and just try todo the same.
You know.
You know, kind of like within,what makes you happy.
But before we get into that,you know, I want to just get

(03:47):
right into it with you.
What is going on in theaesthetic world currently?
It seems to me like it's a wildwest out there and there's so
much controversy, there's somuch confusion there.
You know, there's not a day wego on social media we see two
different, quote unquote expertsbattling about different
viewpoints, which is gotten to apoint where the consumer slash

(04:13):
patient or customer, whateveryou want to call them.
They are confused becausethey're trying to do their due
diligence and research and,based on who they follow, who
they listen to, they hearconflicting questions or or or.
You know, I don't know aboutyou, I get.
There's not a day where I get aDM.
Someone sends me a video wheretwo people are arguing about a

(04:34):
viewpoint and then they ask mewhat do?
I think I'm sure you get those.
So what's going on in your mind?
Where is the confusion and whyis there a confusion?

Speaker 2 (04:45):
Well, the there's two reasons why you see those
debates.
The debates happen eitherbecause there is no answer yet,
which is because we're in thiskind of ever evolving field and
things keep changing andnobody's figured out the best
way, and one person has a 70%success rate this way, the other
one has a 70% success rate thatway.

(05:07):
That's one reason that you seeit.
The other is based onperpetuation of falsities and
lies and things that have beentold over and over again over
time.
And you have a debate betweenone surgeon who has a 95% 99%
success rate and a surgeon whothinks they do, but

(05:29):
realistically has a 50 to 70%success rate and in whatever
they do and that happensprobably more often and it's
because the not as good surgeonor the one who hasn't evolved as
much or isn't really advancedas much, has convinced himself

(05:49):
or herself that there are manyways to skin a cat.
And they've heard it over andover again that other doctors
have told them no, there's somany ways and in my hands I can
get this, and in my hands I canget that, and in my hands I can
get this, and in some sense it'strue where, yes, in one
person's hand they do it thisway, they get an amazing result.
And that person's hand they doamazing with.

(06:10):
You know a slightly differenttechnique, but in most cases
there is a better way.
There is somebody who's better.
This isn't you know theselittle leagues where they're
giving you trophies foreverything and everybody's equal
.
No, there are better surgeons.
There are smarter surgeons,clearly more intelligent people
who see things better, and moreadvanced surgeons.
But the less advanced surgeondoesn't know the difference and

(06:32):
so they argue and using as theirdefense, someone told them to
make them feel better, that youcan do it so many different ways
and get the same result.
No, realistically, in thisworld, things have advanced and
they've advanced because someonewas better, not because
everybody slowly evolved.
It's because one person cameforward and had an idea.

(06:53):
Another person came forward andhad an idea.
So obviously there are peoplewho are better at things.
It's just the surgeons who arenot as good don't know the
difference.
They don't have the taste, theydon't have the insight and they
produce average results.
And they perpetuate the averageresults by justifying it by
always saying there's many waysto do things and they just don't

(07:16):
know any better, and theyattribute things to esoteric
stuff.
So they start talking aboutartistry, they started talking
about evolution, they startedtalking about all these things
that you can't put your hands on, they're not tangible, versus
the good surgeon says no, here'smy result.
It's better on a hundred out ofa hundred patients.

(07:38):
I'm going back to make anexcuse for myself, which is what
surgeons do, right, you're onthese threads and I'll mention
mandibular ligament release,I'll mention whatever, and then
to or skin release or whateverpeople are talking about, and to
defend their viewpoint, ratherthan opening their mind and
saying Ben obviously understandsthis, he knows he can do the

(08:01):
technique I'm doing.
He's doing it different for areason.
They say let me go find the oneresult out of 10 where I can
prove my point, and they go grabthat one photo of the one
patient that they got it righton out of 10 and they show it to
you.
And that's the one they put ontheir website Right, and the
other nine they're like oh well,just you know that patient

(08:23):
didn't heal.
Well, it's not my fault.
That's why this depends on.

Speaker 1 (08:27):
So I'm curious because you know, I mean one
would argue, everyone in ourfield, you know, has a
relatively high intelligent rateof intelligence, otherwise they
wouldn't get this far.
I mean you could argue that andthe way we learned all of this
stuff is because we were curious, curious beings and we

(08:48):
obviously learned this stuff andthen we continuously learns.
How much of this I call it whatyou just illustrated, I call it
opinion, how much of one'sopinion as a professional, even
you or me, do you think isguided by our mentors in the
past, and how much of it isguided by Because it's very deep

(09:14):
psychology, what you just said,by true science, by current
science, because science doeschange.
I mean, I mean you readliterature from just two years
ago.
It's based on literature thatwas Docmatized for decades and
people assume it's correct andno one questions it ever.
So how much of how much of usis influenced really by our

(09:38):
mentors or by people, almostlike religion, by people we Try
to learn from, and how much ofit should be really guided by
curiosity and constantquestioning of the way we're
doing things?

Speaker 2 (09:50):
in your opinion.
Yeah well, so as far as thatquestion goes, I mean, we
wouldn't be where we are withoutevolution and history.
So learning the principles ofplastic surgery is like reading
a history book.
You have to know your history,so you have to go and know your
history about facelifting.
You have to know aboutMassplication, which is history,

(10:12):
it's ancient history.
You have to know these thingsthat you have to know about high
smash, extended smash, skinonly techniques.
You have to know your historyto advance and Figure out why
are the new techniques better?
Where did we go wrong?
So you don't ever regress.
So that's one thing.
But people don't look at it ashistory.
They look at it as Everconstant fact when it stays the

(10:38):
same throughout time doesn'tchange, which is not true.
Right, science changes.
The other issue Is the biggestfallacy ever, which is what you
just said, is that we're allintelligent.
Okay, kind of, you know, butObviously we're Relatively, but

(11:00):
obviously we're not, because youstill have bad results in
cosmetic surgery all over theplace.
So Someone's missing something,and it's pretty common.
So the real way to look at it is, and the way to strengthen
ourselves and advance and nothold ourselves back, is Realize
that what you said is right, butit's completely wrong and it's.
Yes, we had to have a certainintelligence above the general

(11:24):
population To get to where weare.
But it doesn't mean, first ofall, that we understand Things
all over the place.
It means maybe we can read abook, maybe we can take a test,
maybe we can reproduce whatsomebody else did.
It doesn't mean we understandbeauty doesn't mean we under, we
can open our eyes and seethings that other people don't
see.

(11:44):
It doesn't mean we cancriticize ourselves and advance.
It doesn't mean that we thinkabout things nonstop and have to
improve them.
It doesn't mean any of that?
not at all.
It just means that we made itto this point because we can
retain information generallybetter than the general
population.
Now, within medicine, the thingthat we do have to realize is

(12:05):
yeah, sure, ok, ratherintelligent people.
Is that good or bad, right?
Have you?
Have you met a narcissistbefore?
Yeah, play, you've met anarcissist?
Ok, have you ever met anintelligent narcissist?
An intelligent narcissist isone of the most dangerous people
in the world.
True, because they can convincethemselves of anything, and
they can convince themselvesthat they're right, and they

(12:25):
think that because they'reintelligent which they are that
what they're saying must beright.
So these are the most dangerouspeople.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
Do you think we have a lot of that in our field?
Do you think likeproportionality?

Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah, we're so plastic surgery is filled with
cluster view personalities,whether it's narcissistic,
histrionic, sociopathic.
We have a higher rate of itthan all other specialties,
whether it's facial plastics orplastics.
Plastics is here, facialplastics, next oculoplastics,
next derm plastics, least in thelevel of how much cluster be
you have in them.
But there's a lot of it.

(12:56):
And the thing we have torealize is humility is what gets
us far.
Now, confidence and humilityhave to go hand in hand.
You can't be an unconfidentsurgeon.
Ok, so how do you be aconfident surgeon who still has
humility and criticizesthemselves constantly?
It takes a special personality.

(13:16):
This is why some people reallyadvance a lot more is because
they're able to criticizethemselves.
Yet they have enough balls tolearn things, retain things, see
things and then try to advancethemselves.
So they're OK with beingfailures.
So this is where theadvancement comes from, and from
realizing that none of us is ofhigh intelligence.

(13:37):
So you know, yes, generalrelative to the general
population, but to me that's notimpressive.
Impressive is Albert Einstein.
You know, this is trueintelligence and these are rare
people.
So instead we have to assumethat.
Forget the rest of the world.
Look at just within medicine,within medicine itself.
Whatever specialty you're in,there is going to be the same

(14:00):
standard deviation.
You're going to have averageall over here below average,
above average, and you're goingto have the outliers, and so you
have.
That's what we need to reallybe looking at, to say this does
exist.
Yeah, and the average ones arenot the ones who are right.
They're not the ones who areadvancing us.
We need to be the people whoare at the extreme, on the top 5

(14:23):
percent, top 1 percent of this,top 1 percent of the population
.
Everyone look at it, that'sadvancing things.
If not, then all these averagepeople that I look at were
average surgeons, and there'snothing wrong with an average
surgeon.
The world needs them.
You know you have to haveaverage surgeons.
But that the average surgeonsjust, instead of opening their

(14:43):
mouths and defending theirmediocrity, they shut up, they
sit back, they learn, theyadvance and they keep advancing
and just listen to what otherpeople say who are at the top if
they can't advance it, ratherthan holding it back.
But what they do is theircluster B personality, their
average in terms of let's justcall it talent, and that average

(15:07):
person with a cluster Bpersonality is a narcissist and
what they do and theircompetitive and their business
minded, and what they do todrive their own business is they
defend everything they do andthey drag the whole field back.
And you have these people incharge of major journals, which
is what we've seen forever.
They're in charge of majorjournals.

(15:28):
They're megalomaniacs withaverage talent and average
intelligence, but a whole lot ofarrogance, and they hold back
the field because they want todefend what they do, because
they can't admit that they'rewrong, whereas the good surgeons
are always asking themselveswhere am I feeling?
Why am I?

Speaker 1 (15:45):
wrong.
Yeah, this is very deeppsychology.
I actually accidentallystumbled upon the science of I
don't know if you're familiarwith the Dunning and Kruger
effect.
Dunning and Kruger wereactually social psychologists
from Cornell University and in1999, they started studying the
relationship between competenceand confidence.

(16:06):
They wanted to know what is arelationship.
Is it true that you have to becompetent in order to be
confident, or can you just beconfident even though you're not
competent?
So it's called theDunning-Kruger effect.
So what they noticed is thatlet's break the population up in

(16:28):
incompetent people, kind oflike a curve incompetent people
and then mediocre and thenextremely competent.
So they found out that thehighest confidence level is in
the least competent, and thenthat confidence drops as people
kind of start learning, becauseas they learn they find out oh

(16:52):
shit, there's so much I don'tknow.
I thought I knew this.
This is really hard, and thatmotivates them to up their game,
to start learning and studyingand just becoming better, which
takes a long time until few ofthem actually become experts.
And as you become an expert,your confidence level goes up.
But here's the problem, and theystudied it on their psychology

(17:16):
students and across differentuniversities in Florida and East
Coast, west Coast.
They in OBGYN departments,general surgery departments.
They tested the concept of theDunning-Kruger effect Because
they wanted to know if it's true, if it's reproducible, if in
fact the least competent peopleare the most confident.

(17:36):
So, for example, they askedresidents after they took the
mock board exam in the OBGYNdepartment and I think it was at
Jacksonville Florida how theythink they did the ones that
scored the poorest.
They actually were veryconfident that they did amazing.
So the gap between how theythink they did let's say they

(17:57):
thought they're going to get anA but then they got a C or a D
that gap is called theDunning-Kruger effect.
And so I stumbled upon it justto read a little bit about
psychology because, like you,I'm also an educator, so I
wanted to know how I cancommunicate best with my
students, residents and fellowsand how I can really get into a

(18:21):
head and teach them what theyneed to know in order to advance
.
And then I stumbled upon thisand that's when I realized
everything you just said isreally kind of based on that.
And the highest predictor theyfound is intellectual humility,
which is what you're mentioningit.

(18:41):
But intellectual humility hasnothing.
What they found and that'saccording to them, has nothing
to do with actual intelligence,but more so with how much
knowledge one has, meaning kindof like someone like you, the
more knowledge you have, themore intellectually,

(19:02):
intellectual humility you willactually have.
And they found thatrelationship to be kind of
parallel and it's not apredictor for actual
intelligence, because one couldbe very intelligent, but because
maybe they're stubborn, becausethey think they're right, maybe
they're too righteous and theydon't open themselves up for

(19:23):
maybe a new viewpoint, they robthemselves of the opportunity to
learn something new.
Like both, even you can learneveryday something new.
I know you're probably one ofthe most intellectual, humble
experts that I've known and I'vebeen following you for many

(19:45):
years and I've been watchingyour videos and intellectually
humble people, they have noproblem in saying, hey, I don't
know what the reason is, butthis is one of the things we
should find out or investigate.
But certainly we shouldn't takesome dogma for which is like
maybe decades old as our script,just to take it as it is and

(20:09):
not question it so as to theconsumer.
Now back to the patient.
How can the patient protectthemselves or actually know who
is who?
How do they know that theyshould listen to Ben Tellay
versus someone that is just and,by the way, the Dunning and
Kruger also found out the leastcompetent ones that are

(20:31):
excessively confident.
They're actually the loudest.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
They're the loudest out there, yeah of course, yeah,
this is the way of the world.

Speaker 1 (20:39):
So they have the biggest microphone, so people
tend to listen to them.
And the experts, which are alsoconfident, they're not as loud.
They just say what they know.
Because also another fallacythere is for someone like you
they think that because theyknow it, everybody else should
know it, because it's a secondnature.

(21:00):
I mean, it's easy, right?
No, it's not.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
Yeah, so we call this that's undereducated, over
opinionated.
That's the way of the world andyou saw this with the people
who have figured this out is thenewer political campaigns and
you see it with what's going onin the Middle East now.
You see it, with the Trumpadministration was the biggest
one to do it.
They start taking advantage ofthose people and targeting those

(21:24):
people.
They target the most hostile,least intelligent, which is the
same person in general.
It's like a barking chihuahua.
So they go after them becausethey are very confident that
everything they know is true andyou can tell them anything and
they take it as a fact.
And now they live by thosefacts and they bark it at

(21:44):
everybody else and to a pointwhere they'll threaten their
existence.
So this is something that bigmarketing groups which you can
put them in the group ofpropaganda marketing, all that
have really really gone afterthis, because it's really
numbers that they're going after.
It's not convincing theintelligent people anymore.

(22:05):
It's trying to get the mosthostile people on your side.
You convince them of whateveryou want pretty easily and they
scare everybody else to quietdown and not express their
opinion.
And this happens in medicine too, in a different way, in a
softer way, but this happened in.
Massplication is the easiestway to really show this.

(22:28):
You can talk about this inmicro show surgery micro show
surgery with Brent Techniqueversus Nagata and all those.
It happened there too.
But you can see it in facelifting and massplication where
it is the more insecure.
In general, less talented haveto defend their businesses
because they have no talent andthey rely on marketing.

(22:51):
Those are the ones who are theloudest and most adamant in
holding everybody back.
And this whole Kruger effectthat you're talking about is
very applicable to most of thepopulation, to all of the
population, because you do havetrue genius out there.
True genius exists.
It's not me, it's not you, it'sno offense.

Speaker 1 (23:13):
But it's just not.
You're very humble.

Speaker 2 (23:15):
No, but it's not.
It's not either of us.
There is true genius and I'veseen true genius.
I've met a couple true geniusesin my life and there's only a
few that you'll be in the entirelife.
Who in?

Speaker 1 (23:26):
your mind that you have met In your mind, because I
know it's obviously opinionbased and is a true genius, or
has been a true genius in ourfield.
Can you drop a couple of namesIn our field?
No one currently or in the pastand in history, in high school.

Speaker 2 (23:43):
In high school there was a kid in high school Is one
of the only kids that I lookedat ever to this day as really
being genius, and one kid inresidency Not in my residency,
but in anesthesia.
And I know genius, I can tell,I can see in their eyes, I can
see what they understand.

(24:04):
And they're not justintelligent by the meters that
we have, because this DennisKruger effect or whatever it's
called.
We don't know how they'remeasuring intelligence versus
understanding.
Understanding is different.
Understanding is in farce.
They call it au revoir.
It's like someone who sits backand just understands things and
soaks in things.
And they're softer Because youcan be sharp in something where

(24:27):
they can measure by how youretain.
Who knows what they're doing.
But they're two differentthings.
But I've only met those twogeniuses.
They were positive geniuses whoreally promoted things and
accelerated things.
But then there's the black holegenius, which is the most
dangerous genius, which is likemy dad.
So my dad has a narcissisticpersonality disorder undiagnosed

(24:49):
.
He has got a gambling disorderUndiagnosed, yet he grew up as a
child prodigy, true genius.
When you're comparingintelligence levels as far as
understanding goes, pure shit,like knows nothing, and the
problem with those geniuses isthey are the most dangerous

(25:12):
because they have pure genius,pure confidence, but nothing
useful and it tanks every.
So you look at it a lot.
Are you comparing?
Like social, are you?

Speaker 1 (25:22):
talking about social emotional intelligence versus
analytical and.
Yeah, useful intelligence.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
I think they call it social.
You can call it street smarts,you can call it intuition.
He's got shit intuition andthat becomes the most harmful
person to be around, becausethey're true genius and nobody
can say they're not, but they'rea black hole genius.
They just suck in everythingaround them.

(25:50):
So what these guys are talkingabout and I've never read their
studies but they're talkingabout the main population, main
population where you haveintelligence and you do have
these extremes, the way that Iteach.
So how does the patient choosewho's the good one, who's the
bad one amongst all these people?
Especially when you have thesefucking dangerous geniuses

(26:12):
around, it's very difficult.

Speaker 1 (26:17):
And the bigger question is how do the doctors
Because you never want to poop,because you never want to trash
someone, but you still have totell the truth.
I mean, how do you do that?
How do you navigate?

Speaker 2 (26:27):
Well, so I first.
I teach my residents, so theresidents, doctors, visiting
fellows, I teach them First off.
Never assume everybody, whateverybody does is correct.
The proper assumption is thatif what everybody did were
correct, everything would beperfect.
Everything is not perfect, soyour actual assumption is that

(26:48):
what everybody is doing isincorrect in some sense not
totally wrong, but no, that'sgreat advice.
Yeah, so when you're learningsomething new.
Realize you're just learningsomething.
You're not learning the correctthing.
You're not learning.
It's not the Bible or howeveryone says is your fact.
It's not.
It's not constant, and we haveto learn everything as history,

(27:10):
which means pick up everythingyou can soak in and absorb
everything around you.
You can go to the worst surgeonin the history of the world and
come out with something verypositive.
They can teach you something.
They're still intelligentpeople, so they still have
something, even the one thatmakes everybody look fake.
You go watch them.
You're like, oh shit, I learnedthe most amazing trick that
just changed my career, eventhough all the results are total

(27:33):
shit.
So I tell them look at theworld that way.
When you go learn from peoplebiggest name, smallest name
absorb everything, whomever theyare, it doesn't matter.
Just absorb.
But don't assume for a secondany of it is correct now or will
be in 10 years.
Then you have to really look atthe photos and analyze yourself,
and this is where the patienthas to really do their homework

(27:54):
too, and doctors have to dotheir homework.
Look at the results, because asfar as the doctors go on, what
you're learning from the doctorsare like oh, but this doctor
said you can do all this volumereduction and you can do this
and you can do that, you can dothat.
I'm like, well, that's reallyfucking creative that they came
up with all that stuff.
But the more creative you are,the more dangerous you are.
Look how simple I do it.

(28:15):
I do just a few things and I'mshowing you 10 out of 10 results
, or actually 99 out of 100 or95 out of 100.
There's always something wrong,right?
95 out of 100 where I'm gettingit better than they are in
their one out of 10 they showedyou I go.
So you have to really look atthat and understand that the
simpler it's explained to you,the simpler it is most of the

(28:36):
time, the better it is.

Speaker 1 (28:38):
It's kind of interesting.
I just lectured at this eyeface conference, which I think
you are also part of, and Italked about the temporal brow
lift, which is a very simpletechnique.
I actually do it exactly theway you do it.

(28:59):
I've been doing it like thatfor over 10, 15 years because I
come from the endoscopic browlift and this is just pretty
much a lateral approach of theendoscopic brow lift, to
simplify things, and I alwaysget consistent results and it's
very simple to me.
But in literature there's somany different techniques on

(29:20):
brow lift.
I mean so many and you were thefirst person that I ever
listened to that actually brokeit down beautifully, to the
point that it made it so clearand obvious and describing how

(29:41):
the brow age is and everything.
And it doesn't age vertically.
I mean, all of these things areobvious, we all know these
things, but yet the techniqueswe choose they're completely
contradictory to all of thestuff we know and we just it's
almost like we pick techniquesjust because someone else does
them that way or we were taughtthat way and we never questioned
it.
Now, so at the end of mylecture it was a long, it was

(30:04):
almost like a 45 minute Q&Asession afterwards, one of the
longest I ever had every singlequestion.
It appeared that almost no oneit appeared to me like no one
was listening because they wereso caught up in their old ways
in what they knew from the past.
Even though I presented it verysimple, technique, even

(30:27):
anatomically, I did a wholeanatomic description of all
layers and approach very simple,like my fellows.
They literally see one and thenthe next one.
They do one perfectly.
You know that speaks for itssimplicity.
Anything that's simple isreproducible and if it's
reproducible that means it'ssimple.
But what shocked me and some ofthe questions came from very

(30:51):
renowned surgeons because theyannounced who asked the question
and I thought, well, maybe theytuned in later, or.
But then, exactly what you said.
They were asking how thatcompares to some other
techniques which are way overcomplicated.
They have nothing to do, evenconceptually, with the anatomy

(31:11):
and physiology of aging.
So I don't even know why peopleeven perform them and it was a
little disheartening.
It was disheartening because Ifelt like, well, either I'm a
poor communicator or people arejust too caught up in their old
ways.
In your opinion, you're a greateducator.
You travel all across the world, you talk to surgeons from all

(31:34):
kinds of cultures, ethnicities,medical, surgical backgrounds.
What, in your opinion, is thisthe problem?
Why are we so caught up in ourold ways to the point that we
don't even hear something that'sso simple laid out in front of
us?

Speaker 2 (31:49):
Well, one of the reasons is, yes, we're poor
communicators.
So I've given these lecturesthe brow lectures that you're
talking about and I used to havea lot of kickback from people
what do you mean?
Same things.
They bring up the old stuff,the old stuff.
It's like they weren't evenable to understand.
I began to understand the browsso well that I realized that

(32:14):
the way that we were teaching itwas just so wrong that I had to
reteach that first.
So I went into, instead ofsurgical technique, just all
concepts, and I don't even wastemy time on surgical technique
anymore, I just talk aboutconcept only, because people can
barely understand that.
And the thing is they have theseold theories, and their old
theories are supported over andover again by a two out of 10

(32:40):
success rate or a five out of 10success rate, and it's like a
broken clock is right.
Twice a day.
I've seen this a million times.
And what they do is they lookat when the clock is when a
clock broke at two o'clock,right, and then they go look and
when it's actually two o'clock,they look at it.
It works, it works, it works.
And so this is what they do andthey perpetuate it.

(33:00):
The other is they don't evenknow how to tell time.
So brow lifting specifically,they don't know what a good
result is, and that sounds crazy, but they don't know what a
good result is.
So half my lecture, when I talkabout brow lifting now, is
getting them to understand whatis the actual result you're
looking for.
Because they're so used tolooking for a big change,

(33:25):
because they have failures andthey think that the way to fight
a failure is to get a biggereffect.
So they think you know not thatthey pulled in the wrong
direction, but not enough in theright direction or whatever.
They don't realize.
So they keep pulling harder inthe wrong direction.
And so I teach them in thebeginning.
I go, you're not supposed tomake someone look like a
surprised idiot.

(33:46):
I go.
The brow lift is specificallyintended to relax the face
because you have strain thatoccurs with age and changes in
the brow shape that occur withage.
They're happening because ofthe dynamic of the brow and if
you reposition the scalp, thedynamic of the muscle corrects
itself.
If you're not in the rightposition, the dynamic stays and

(34:06):
is compensating always.
So I keep teaching them this,but they don't know what the how
to tell time is my point.
So they don't know what a goodbrow lift is.
They don't have no idea becausethey've been shown a million
different ones and they startgetting impressed with big
changes rather than properchanges, which for me.
I keep trying to look at myafters.
They look more relaxed.
This is the point.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
People are the wrong end point.
Do you fall to the educationalsystem from universities,
residencies, fellowships,whatever?
Why is there so muchdiscrepancy in the understanding
in something that'sconceptually fairly simple and

(34:49):
evidence based?
Why is it?
Why is it?
Why is it?
I always ask a question why?

Speaker 2 (34:55):
Well, our understanding keeps getting
better.
So previously, if you'relooking at brow lift texts and
this, and that they're allfocused on brow shape, brow arc,
brow, this and that, becausethey didn't get that.
The aging brow looks differentbecause of the dynamic changes
that happen in the muscle fromstrain.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
So you think it's evolving?

Speaker 2 (35:15):
all the texts.
It started wrong.
They started talking about thewrong thing to begin with and
everybody keeps picking up andtrying to evolve the wrong thing
, instead of going back andsaying, oh well, that wasn't the
problem.
The reason we're overcorrecting and the reason we're
this and the reason people don'tlike endoscopic and all of this
is because we're looking at thebrow incorrectly, so we keep

(35:36):
repeating the old ideas and then.

Speaker 1 (35:39):
So what makes?
You so what makes you theperson you are to question
everything and to try to improve?
Was it your innate nature?
Was it one of your mentors,from Steven Perlman to others
who you trained with?
Who do you think instilled thatcuriosity in you?
Or is it just?
Your innate nature.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
No well, I've been curious forever.
As a kid.
I would just sit there andeverybody's talking in the car
and I'm just staring out thewindow looking at things, just
understanding the world.
That's how I've always been.
The thing that really changedme, I'd say positively, wasn't a

(36:20):
specific mentor at all.
It was in medical school.
One of the first things theystarted teaching you is looking
at outcome based results Period,and you either understand this
or you don't.
It doesn't matter about thescience.
Forget the science, okay, ofhow to read results and read
studies.
That's a whole other thingwhich, in plastic surgery, never

(36:42):
happens.
It's extremely rare to have anactual evidence based study in
plastics.
It's very difficult becauseit's an artistic endeavor and
you can't quantify these things.
It's mainly photos.
You know it's like so andpeople think it's science, but
it's not.
But just understanding outcomebased meaning live your life

(37:02):
like this.
Live your life like this.
If everything in your life isturning out perfectly all the
time, you're doing it right.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
That's your outcome?

Speaker 2 (37:11):
Yeah, if your life isn't perfect, if something's
wrong, if you're stressed, ifyour kids are mad at you, if you
know you're getting fat, ifyou're getting a heart attack,
if you're whatever, however youwant to look at it, it means
that whatever you're doing isobviously wrong or else you
would have had the right result.

(37:31):
So when I look at surgery, I'mdoing it the same way.
I keep looking at it and I keepsaying why is it not perfect?
Why didn't I get it right?
Why didn't I get it right?
I'm obviously doing somethingwrong.
Obviously it's not, andsometimes it's me, sometimes
it's the surgeon who taught me,sometimes not, you know, not any
specific surgeon.
All the articles you read, allthe things you know, sometimes

(37:54):
it was them.
Maybe they just didn't have itright and I need to figure out
what's wrong with it.
Or I need to figure out what'swrong with myself.
Why am I getting it wrong?
You know, I was using TXA for awhile.
Holy shit, all these thingswere going wrong because of me.
I didn't know, because I didn'tunderstand the cause and effect
of it.
And then I look at it later,finally, and I look back and I'm

(38:16):
like holy shit, it wasn'tperfect because I was
introducing something that wasbad, you know, unhealthy.
So, either way, that's themindset that got me to change
over and over and over again.
And then when I built mypractice was the other.
When I was building my practice, I called a lot of people to
seek their opinion.
And this is when I reallyrealized in my life that you

(38:41):
cannot seek the opinion of theaverage.
So when people talk aboutcommon sense, common sense is
average, it's common, it's whatcommon people would understand.
I need it to be not the common,I need it to be the best, and
it doesn't matter if it's inmedicine or in marketing or
whatever it is, I have to begood at it.
It's a game.
And that's when I realized, whenI called everybody and they

(39:02):
said, oh, just hang a shingle,just go work for a academic,
just do this, just do that.
I realized that all thesepeople lived an average life and
they had a 10 year course untilthey were decent, 20 year
course until they were fullyestablished.
I don't want to be that person.
I want it to be the two to fiveyear.
You know you can't rushanything, but I want it to be
the two to five year.
And I know people out therehave done it.

(39:23):
So why am I listening to thecommon people?
Okay, I listened to them tolearn my history and to learn
where they went wrong.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
So what did you do?
And then I really have to lookat the top.
So what did you then?

Speaker 2 (39:34):
end up doing.

Speaker 1 (39:35):
What did you end up then doing?

Speaker 2 (39:37):
Well, I started looking at the top 5%, top 1% in
all these fields not justmedicine and how they
accelerated.
How did they do it?
What are they doing differently?
What are they seeingdifferently?
Right, Everybody else goes left, you go right.
So what is what are they doingdifferently?
Or how are they approaching it?
And then you know, one of thethings you realize is that there

(39:58):
is no correct answer foranything for anybody.
So if you ask what's yoursecret, my secret is to trying
everything.
It's like it's it's shotgunapproach.
You do a thousand things Fail,fail, fail, fail, fail.
Oh, that one's it.
Let's go and you kind of keepgoing, and the faster you can do
this, the faster you evolve.
This is why good, you know,high volume and surgery is good
because you evolve faster andyou find your failures faster.

(40:21):
Otherwise it's like a needle ina haystack.
You'll never find it in 20years of failures.
You have to find it within oneyear.
So in my practice that's how Igrew it was realizing quickly
that everybody I was asking wasleading me to in the wrong
direction, because they kepttelling me the same thing.
And I'm like, if it's that easy, why isn't everyone successful?
You realize, because, just like.

(40:42):
You're talking about educationand universities.
Universities are not teachingyou to be intelligent and smart.
They're teaching you to beaverage.
It is teaching you whateverybody can understand in a
book.
It's what's average, and that'swhy high school is harmful the
way it's structured.
That's why university is harmfulthe way it's structured,
because you don't take advantageof true geniuses.
True geniuses suffer in thoseareas because they're being

(41:05):
taught to be average, notconformity.
You know people think it'sconformity.
It's not conformity.
It's that they only know how toteach you to be average.
They don't know how toaccelerate somebody because
they're not acceleratorsthemselves.
I had one teacher in college whounderstood this.
It was an education class andwe go in the education class and

(41:25):
the first thing he says is ourstereotypes good or bad.
And then people are like well,stereotypes are bad, stereotypes
are bad.
And he says no, stereotypes areactually can sometimes be true
and they can be good.
And like an Asian as smart, asa stereotype.
And he says who's the, thepeople who have the most PhDs

(41:49):
and whatever in this world.
After he says this, andeveryone was the Asians, he's
like no, by large percentage isthe Jews.
He goes, he goes.
You have to understand thatstereotypes may be right, they
may be wrong.
Sure, what you understand abouteducation may be right, may be
wrong.
We understand about what youthink about the world may be
right, may be wrong, but thepeople who accelerate in this

(42:13):
world are the ones who go aftertheir strengths and who support
each other, and that's why yousee in, like Jewish community
and the culture, they acceleratebecause they help each other
and they focus on strength, notfailure, and when you're looking
at most education, it'sfocusing on failures.
It's focusing on you suck it,math, make your math better.

(42:33):
You suck it this, make thatbetter.
And there's some truth to that.
But really, the people whoaccelerated in this world in any
form of arts is because theyfound what they're strong in and
they keep accelerating in that,and that, for me, was another
thing that really changed theway I look at things and how to
not really be average, becauseeveryone else teaches you to be

(42:54):
average.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
Now you have a very great understanding and sense
for business entrepreneurship.
At what point did you know thatyou have that or did you have
someone that mentored you inthat regard?
Because everybody knows thatdoctors are not the best
businessmen and nothing getstaught in medical schools on

(43:17):
business and entrepreneurship.
Where did that come?
Did you have a mentor or was itjust innate to you?
And also, I want you to talk tome in that regards and what
you're doing as far as businessand entrepreneurship within your
practice and what your secretsauce to success has been.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
So with business, there's the part with just
numbers and not understandingthem, which I still fully don't.
That's because in oureducational system here in the
US, they never teach us finances.
It's probably the mostimportant thing of anything you
could learn of all thesesubjects that they teach

(44:03):
interestingly, and it's what'snot taught.
I don't know if I'll ever bereally good at finance stuff.
However, what you had mentionedabout entrepreneurship I like
being creative and I like doingthings For me.
I like being good at things andtechnical things and things
where I can actually measure mychange, knowing that I got

(44:25):
better at something Business ormarketing or brand development
or business development orpractice growth.
How we want to look at it wasone of those things where I
hated the idea of it at firstbecause it seemed dirty to me.
It seemed dirty to mix medicineand any kind of business.
I just wanted to be a puredoctor healing people, helping
people, that's it.

(44:46):
But then I started doing it andI started looking at not
doctors, because doctors suck atit.
Right, I suck, you suck.

Speaker 1 (44:55):
It's not in us.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
We don't know how to do it.
So I started looking ateverybody else in different
fields.
I'm looking at my friends ChrisJenner, I'm looking at this
hairstylist, I'm looking at thisartist.
I'm looking at all thesedifferent people.
How did they do it?
And I started just takinglittle tips and tricks and tips
and tricks from the successfulones, because we don't know what
we're doing.
And then it became a game forme and I started to like it for
a little bit, or not even likeit.

(45:16):
It just is a game and you haveto be good at the game and I
like playing games, I like beinggood at it, I like creating, I
like doing something new.
And my practice kind of grewlike that where I just started
trying all these differentthings and no specific thing
worked.
It wasn't Google AdWords, itwasn't Yelp, it wasn't real self
, it wasn't seminars, it wasn'tall the classic stuff everybody

(45:39):
did it was like in my place,Beverly Hills.
By chance this thing worked inthe world.
By chance this worked, so Ijust kept growing it and it got
to the point where I even amhaving fun now growing my new
business.
I'm doing this new two newoffices.
One of them is called CupidLips and you just had the grand

(46:00):
opening.

Speaker 1 (46:01):
It's like my baby yeah.

Speaker 2 (46:02):
Yeah, well, grand opening is February 29th.
But I had a soft opening, yeah,soft opening, and congrats,
yeah, and this became for meanother artistic outlet.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
Tell us a little bit about it.
What is that for people thatdon't know you that well or
don't know what I mean?
Everybody knows what Cupid Lipsare, but what's a business
model?

Speaker 2 (46:21):
Yeah.
So Cupid Lips is my lip center.
It's not a lip clinic, it's nota lip store, it's not a lip
anything, it's a lip everything.
So the idea is you walk in andthe front of this whole place is
retail, where you're walkinginto like Sephora and it's only
that and it's beautiful andthat's part of the fun of it is
making somewhere pretty, and I'mnot good at that.

(46:41):
My friend is an artistic genius, antonio Tadresi.
He's a designer and architect.
He did it, but with me, liketelling you know, he extracts
things out of you.
He is very, very talented andwe made this place that you walk
in, you feel amazing and you'rejust like, oh my god, and you
look around and it's great.
So that's step one where it'sfun.

Speaker 1 (47:01):
I like the Al Pacino picture.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
So, that has a history to it, because this is
where they filmed Gina's hairsalon, which was his sister, was
my location, so that's why wehave that Amazing.
But it's a product place andthe reason I wanted to make a
product place is because there'sall these lip products out
there and nobody knows what'sgood or bad, and so we're trying
to make a place that is notnecessarily doctor researched or

(47:25):
this and that, but it's doctorapproved, meaning I look at the
product, I looked at what's init and I said you know what?
This is a good product andwe're going to carry it and
we're starting slow.
We're starting with like 10, 12lines and then we're going to
get to like 100.
So we're going to have onlineand in person and really try to
sift out like what, the what,the ones are that a doctor would
approve.

Speaker 1 (47:43):
That's the idea for you guys have makeup artists or
anything.
Do you have any makeup artiststhere?

Speaker 2 (47:48):
No, we're going to have makeup people who help out
with stuff, but and we haveactually a location if we're
going to do makeup stuff forevents but the other part of it
is lip noninvasive meaninginjectable laser, radio
frequency, nano fat all thisstuff that you could do to the
lips.
That is not surgery and notmakeup, something to make the

(48:11):
lip sexier, better, whatever ormore natural.
So we're the place where youcome.
If you have these big, nasty LAlips, we take it back to normal
.
We're expert at dissolving,we're expert at refilling.
We know how to deal with thisstuff.
Now, of course, we do all theother things as well, with
noninvasive under eye filler andBotox and lasers, but our focus
for marketing and branding isreally just the lip.

(48:33):
And then we do the lip lift,which is the cupid lift that we
do once, twice a week there atthe location.
So people, they want apermanent result, they can get
it, and we do quality control.
So I'm going to set this placeup in Miami, I'm going to set it
up in Newport, I'm going to setit up in Dallas, Toronto,
eventually Dubai, riyadh.
So I'm going to have it in someof my favorite places to hang

(48:55):
out, so I can hang out there.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
What happened to New York?

Speaker 2 (48:59):
New York is a hard market.
I train there and I love itthere, but it's going to be a
little bit of a harder market, Ithink, for me, just the way it
feels Like Miami.
It's made for cupid lips.
When you walk into cupid lipsyou're like this is Miami.

Speaker 1 (49:15):
I could tell you, I lived in Miami, I trained in
Miami, so I would say probablyin Miami and LA are number one
and two in that regards, when itcomes to lips.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
So that's what it's going to be, and we even have an
area where we can put art forlips, where you can buy art lip
art by lip artists.
And we're going to have cupidcompendium, which is an online
video library for surgeons andinjectors who want to learn
injection technique not just forme, but from my friend surgeons
or doctors or injectors who Iwould think are master injectors

(49:47):
or radio frequency anything.
Really.
I'll start it with lips, butreally go do the whole face,
because injection techniquespeople don't know what they're
talking about and there's somany master injectors and
anatomists out there that arelike self-proclaimed who I think
are a joke.
When I know anatomy and I lookat what they teach, what the

(50:09):
fuck are you talking about?
You do not know anatomy.
That's textbook anatomy.
I get it.
Not real dynamic physicalanatomy you don't get it.
This is going to be really toteach all that stuff muscle,
dynamic and all that's going tobe included.
All this is going to be in thecupid compendium.
That's amazing.
And then we have the cupidcalculator, which is an app that
we've developed to actuallyshow for the first time ever,

(50:32):
what a lip lift can look like.
No other app can do that andI've figured out what you're
doing.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
I think that's going to be very valuable, because I
think the lips change theappearance of one's face more so
than anything, even to me, morethan the nose.
I mean, up until now, I alwaysthought the nose, but when you
see and, by the way, and I'm notsaying this just because you're

(50:58):
here and you're on my podcastand I don't want to just be
tooting your horn but I've neverseen a good lip lift result
other than yours, and I'm notjust saying it because you're on

(51:18):
my podcast is because it's sohard to get it right.
It's so hard to get it rightand if you get one millimeter
wrong, you really could makesomeone look terrible and right,
and it almost makes someonelook like they had a clubflip
repair.
If you over shorten it, if youover shorten the center portion

(51:42):
and don't address the lateralportion, it's like so many
things can go wrong.
And you have this amazing wayto measure things and I want you
to tell the audience how didyou come up with these
measurements, Because I think itwas.
I don't remember two years ago.
We're lecturing together at thetalk meeting and you were
lecturing on the.
My lecture came right afteryours.

(52:03):
Yours was online and youactually were talking about your
lip lift measurements, but youdidn't really talk about how you
came up with it.
How did you come up with that?
Because you would do all thesemeasurements Like how did you
decide, is it the chicken or theegg?

Speaker 2 (52:19):
This actually came from trying to teach people.
So I kept trying to teachpeople how to do it and they
would go back and do it wrongand I would show them on their
visit.
You know, this one, you have togo laterally biased.
This one, you have to go moreasymmetric.
And I would eyeball the lip,I'd look at the lip and I would.

(52:42):
I'm good at measuring like tothe half millimeter.
At some point I got good at itfrom just seeing so many.
So I at some point realized thatwhat I was teaching them wasn't
sticking.
And it's not because it's acomplicated technique for
surgery.
They could do the surgery.
They just couldn't figure outthe measurements, because that's

(53:02):
some kind of like understandingof looking at the face and
being able to like say, okay,this needs to come up more than
it needs to come up more,whatever.
So I went back and I said, okay, let me find a way to teach
them.
Maybe I can do somemeasurements because I kind of
know what I'm doing, and let mejust go see if there's a way to
put some math to this, eventhough I hate math.
So I don't hate math in general.

(53:24):
I was great at math as a kid.
I don't like mathematics andbeauty.
Mathematics and beauty they'recontradictory in general.
Most of the faces shouldn't bemathematical, it shouldn't be
strictly numbers.
Ratios are off all the time.
So I went and started measuringand I saw holy shit, what I've
been doing this whole time iscreating a slope between these

(53:47):
relaxing intention lines thatI've created, and doing that
actually got me to perfect theslope.
So some cases I'd have afailure on the lateral lip, some
cases I have a little asymmetry, shape change.
All this and this allowed me tolike go, perfect the slope
where I actually figured out thereal numbers.
So I went and started measuringthem.

(54:09):
My friend's trying to come intomy house, Sure man.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
Someone's breaking into your house.
Should I call the cops?

Speaker 2 (54:16):
Yeah, so I started measuring these slopes out and I
got the numbers for a cupid andI evolved it and once you get
one, you find the next one.
You get one, you find out thenext one, and then you see a
couple failures and you're like,ah, got it.
So it took a little while but Ifigured it out and now it's

(54:37):
something that I made itinitially to teach others.
I thought I was okay.

Speaker 1 (54:43):
Did that improve the teachability of it?

Speaker 2 (54:48):
Oh yeah, teachability is way improved because I also
understand the lip better.
But what it really did waschange my results.
My results kept getting betterand better and more consistent,
especially on revisions.
It saves my ass all the timeand I measure things out.
Sometimes I'm like, oh my God,I didn't see that in the picture
and you can measure thedisparity.
And not just that I got to learnthe difference between anatomy

(55:10):
of the sub facial lip, the subnasal lip.
I got to understand what makespeople look angry versus happy.
What is it that makes thisperson look mad?
Because the lip goes too farthere and then down, you know.
And I started to realize allthese things about lip character
.
So the calculations reallyhelped me out because I realized
that I could write a book aboutlip shape and lip character and

(55:32):
how that projects onto otherpeople.
So someone would look at justlike if you have ptosis.
They look at you and say, okay,you look tired or mean or mad.
The lip can do that, and soI've got this better
understanding of it through that, and now that's what we call
the Cupid Lift is using thatalgorithm.

Speaker 1 (55:48):
I think the risk with lip lifts is because
technically it seems like it's avery simple procedure and it is
a simple procedure, but I thinkthe-.
Simple technically, but thehard part is the diagnosis and
then the design, and I thinkthat's why it's such a rabbit
hole, it's so tricky, where alot of people get themselves

(56:09):
into trouble, and it's very hardto correct once you get it
wrong.
It's very difficult to correct,especially when it's
over-resected.
And so, guys, if you'relistening if you're in the
market for a lip lift, I swearto God, just buy a damn ticket
and fly to Beverly Hills.
And because I'm telling you,it's not as easy as it looks,

(56:32):
because it's all about thediagnosis and design and that
requires a certain eye andartistry and that's the stuff
that you can't teach and that'swhy, personally, I don't do lip
lifts, because I take myresponsibility very seriously
and if I'm not good at something, I'm not gonna do it and I'm

(56:52):
certainly not gonna try to learnit on my patients account.
So I stick to my faceless, myrhinoplasty, and you will see
all my lip lifts.
Now, ben, I have a question foryou as someone that's educating
and teaching.
How do you?

(57:13):
You have a fellowship, right?
You train fellows.
Like what are they?
They spend a year with you.
Yeah, I have residents andfellows, so I'm a professor in
Mexico.

Speaker 2 (57:23):
So I have my Mexican residents come in for one month
at a time and then I have afellow who's there for one year
and, yes, it's largely like anobservational fellowship and
then they have their own cases.
The second half of the year.

Speaker 1 (57:37):
So how do you pick them?
If someone wants to reach outto you, how do you pick them?
Because I'm sure you gethundreds of applications.
So how do you pick them?
Because you can train only somany people.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
Well, my prior fellows were mainly plastic
surgeons and then now I'm partof the American Academy of
Facial Plastics, so they'refacial plastics or plastics.
So there's a you go to theAAFPRS website and you apply
through the fellowship programand it can be plastic, you can
be plastic surgery or facialplastics.
It's actually a blend and welook through the applications

(58:12):
and anybody who seems remotelydecent or intelligent or likable
we have them come through, evenif it's somebody that I may not
ultimately take.
And the reason for that is I'mdoing them a favor.
Like they may not know it, butone of the biggest, best
fellowships I had was theinterview process, was going

(58:34):
through and learning whatdifferent people had to say,
their approaches, theirviewpoints and their techniques,
all of that and the differentpersonalities.
And if you don't see that inyour fellowship interviews, you
may never see it because you getto see 20, 30 people in a row.
So for that reason, if it'sanybody I'd like to have for the
day, even I just invite them tocome, even if I think I may not

(58:55):
take them ultimately.

Speaker 1 (58:56):
How do you assess their artistic, how do you
assess their artistic ability?
Because much of what we do Ithink most of what we do has to
do with an artistic eye.
Now, if you don't, how do yousearch for that?
How do you find that personthat has that artistic ability?

Speaker 2 (59:11):
You're not gonna get all winners.
So, ultimately, who would pick?
You have a way?
Well, most of mine is.
Number one thing that cancelsyou as an option is if you don't
have a good personality.
So if it's somebody who, let'ssay, is uptight, cancel culture,
this millennial bullshit.

(59:33):
You can't make jokes, thingslike that.
Good luck, you're not coming tomy office.
Get the fuck out Like it's nothappening.
I'm gonna be around somebody Ilike, who can take a joke, and I
do not care for this newculture that's going on.
They can all go eat shit.
So and this is coming out ofeven my program, colombian
Cornell, which was classically,we were rough, like we were.

(59:58):
We used to get tortured and youcould say anything to us and do
anything to us and we were fine, not like that.
They're little princesses now.
So even those programs thatwere rough, the New York
programs you know New York wasrough Like the New York programs
now they have like work hoursand oh my God, I don't wanna
overwork.
So that's number one.
You're not even getting closeto me because I don't wanna be

(01:00:18):
around and I'm not doing afellowship because I have to.
I'm doing it, it's fun for me.
I lose money doing a fellowship, I lose time and I have to pay
them and they're not giving meanything in return.
I don't need them.
So that's number one.
Number two becomes like how welldid they listen?
So do they get it?
Is it somebody who comes in andis saying I know, I know, I

(01:00:39):
know, or like huh, interesting,oh, I didn't see it that way.
You know, like it's a differentperson.
This is how I pick my nurseinjectors.
This is how I pick people whowork in my office.
I'm very harsh, I'm veryinsulting.
And then if they're resilientand they listen and they truly
get it, you can see it in theireyes, you can hear in their
voice.
They can't act.
If they really get it, I'm like,wow, this is someone who's

(01:01:01):
teachable, cause I don't expectanybody to come in and be an
artist.
I don't expect anybody to comein and be a genius.
I don't expect anybody to comein and be already talented.
I expect them to have someinnate talent and innate ability
to understand.
If they have those two things,they're going to be a strong
surgeon.
Now, if they have, on top ofthat, true insight,
self-criticism, drive to worktheir ass off, you know, and

(01:01:25):
they're curious and want to doeverything all the time and see
everything, and instead oftaking a vacation they go see a
surgeon.
You know, if they're thatperson and they have a little
artistic kind of creative mind,then they're going to be great.
Yeah well said, but you're notgoing to get all of those.
You may not get all of those.

Speaker 1 (01:01:42):
Yeah, I tried to get some pointers because I'm faced
with that challenge every yearas I myself have a fellowship
and so far I had great luck.
I love my fellows smart guysand very curious, and so I was
trying to you know, see how youshop for artists, and so you
know, you, you.
Well, let me tell you what Idid.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
We.
So it's myself, Richard Zumalem, who's my co-director and
current deer.
We sat down at dinner and welooked through all these
applications and you know,before I used to just meet the
person and say, okay, you know,I'll take you, because it wasn't
a formal fellowship, Sure.
If I like them I.
We looked at it and all of uscame to the same kind of
conclusion, which is we reallyonly ranked like out of 40

(01:02:26):
people.
We ranked like three, four orfive, something like that.
Like maybe four or five people,that's it.
We didn't rank any othersbecause I either want those
people or I don't want a fellow.
I'll just pick someone later IfI want to have someone around.
I have residents, you know Idon't give a shit.
Why would I want to havesomebody around who's again, you
know, annoy me and or embarrassme after they leave and my, you

(01:02:49):
know they have my name on themforever and if they go around
and say I was trained by Ben andthey're doing these shit
surgeries, it's embarrassing.
So we only ranked like four orfive people maximum.
We threw away all the othersbecause we weren't convinced
that I'd want to be around themfor a year.
Some of them because the waythey looked at me, some of the

(01:03:10):
way because the way they talked.
One of them tried to interviewme.
Get the fuck out of here.
So I don't know how you do yourfellowship, but I'm extremely
offensive during mine and ifthey can take it, that's step
one.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
You know I tried to find a line.
You know I was in a veryabrasive, malignant residency
myself at the University ofMiami and I don't know if it's
an East Coast thing or what itis, but you know, I don't know.
But the one thing that I lookfor is because when I every

(01:03:43):
opportunity I got during mytraining and I was very lucky is
, I was always grateful for anopportunity.
I would do anything.
Basically, all the things yousaid, kind of like that was me.
So I look for the same thing.
And there is, I think.
I do agree.
I think this new generation hasgotten softer, has gotten a
little bit more what's the wordentitled?

(01:04:06):
And, like you said, I had I had.
They were interviewing me, I'mlike wait a second, I'm doing
this for you.
I'm not getting anything fromit, you know, I just do it
because I enjoy teaching and Iwant to this field to progress.
I want to butt out surgeonsthat do it the right way at

(01:04:26):
least my way and not the wrongway.
And so there are people,obviously, that are grateful for
it, for the opportunity it likewhen you and I mentioned these
things and I, during theinterview process, I talk about
it and if and you can youabsolutely right, you can tell
from their facial expressionshow they take it and if they get

(01:04:47):
it, you know it.
And so, but the one thing I canfigure out, if they have that
the artistic eye because thatyou learn, you'll never know
it's just like towards thesecond half of the fellowship,
then you will.
I look for it through askingquestions.
So, for example, hey, what doyou think looks wrong here?
Or what do you think looksright here, or why is this a

(01:05:08):
great result, or why is this abad result?

Speaker 2 (01:05:10):
And then, based on how, they find out and diagnose
it.
If they're creative and curious, they will develop this.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
So, but you know I'm not an artist.
Let me show you something.

Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
It's getting here fun enough, like I can't paint for
shit.
Okay, this is I mean grantedthis is outside.

Speaker 1 (01:05:26):
Is that your boat?

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
It's my boat and I did it.
This is at Alec Monopoly'shouse.
We both did a skin tighteningtreatment together and we were a
little bit high on themedication.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
Hey, it looks good.
It looks like a Picasso to me.
Yeah, the Picasso with theheadphone Point is.

Speaker 2 (01:05:46):
I'm not the painting kind of artist, but as long as
you're like, really creative andcurious and you like to look at
things and understand things,they'll develop.
You know my current fellow,she's developing it.
The surgical technique is thefirst thing you learn
understanding the face.
It takes forever.
It's like the ABC, it's likelearning the alphabet.

Speaker 1 (01:06:07):
You know you gotta teach someone the alphabet
before you have them.
You know design a poem and thenwrite a poem.
In a way it's like beautifullywritten.
So I know everything is stagesMe and you went through the same
evolution and you know you haveto learn the basics first, the
principles first, and I thinkanyone doing your fellowship is

(01:06:28):
lucky.
They might not know how luckythey are until like maybe 10
years into their career, becauseI think the most important
thing, what I value the mostfrom my mentors, is the
principles they taught me.
Not necessarily a technique,because you can watch a video
and learn a technique, that'swhatever, but the principles.
That's the one thing.
I think I take thatresponsibility most seriously

(01:06:51):
and I tell my fellows I'm like,look, whatever you learn here is
only maybe 10% of what you'regonna do for the rest of your
career.
However, the principles willpave which road you're gonna be
on.
And that's my job in the shortone year to teach you the
principles.
So, from being empatheticsurgeon, from being a ethical

(01:07:15):
surgeon, from being a curioussurgeon and for not believing
any dogma or any statement,always questioning everything,
if I get that through you inthat one year, your career will
be successful, no matter what,as long as you don't fuck things
up.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
Yeah, no, and interestingly so, I learned from
my two main mentors well, threeprobably, but my two main
mentors who guided the way I actare Pearlman and Giacomo.
So Pearlman, C Pearlman I waswith him for three years in
residency and he taught me a lotabout surgery, a lot about how

(01:07:51):
to deal with people and like howto word things, like even you
know the things you wouldn'teven think about he was just
good at, naturally.
And then Andrew Giacomo was myfellowship director for my
fellowship over there in NewYork, really taught me how to,

(01:08:11):
you know, question things inadvance, beyond what everybody
else is doing and you have to bethe best.
And because I was convinced byothers that kept talking about
oh, but recovery times, but ifsomeone wants something, minimal
, but if somebody wants just, alittle bit of a bullshit and
they didn't understand, likethey weren't there to be the

(01:08:31):
best, those people who say thatthey're not there to be the best
.

Speaker 1 (01:08:34):
It's an excuse that all of that is justifying what
you don't want to do.
Well, they just see things thewrong way, you know.
I 100% agree with you.

Speaker 2 (01:08:41):
I 100% agree with you .
So he's the one who taught meno, you do this, you do the best
, you do this to get the bestresults.
And he told me to there's arole for what these people are
talking about.
There's a role for the little,this little, that it's just not
for us.
Let them go to somebody else.
Let somebody else do that forthem.
We're only here to get the bestresults.

(01:09:01):
That's it, period.
And that made my life easy,because I don't even have to
worry about these tiny.
How do I do less for thisperson?
How do I do?
No, if they want less, theywant to do the lesser stuff.
They can go to somebody elseand there's a role for that in
this world.

Speaker 1 (01:09:14):
It's just not for me Not for what I want to do.
I want the best result.

Speaker 2 (01:09:18):
I want to look at my before and after, have a good
day, move on to the next one.
That's really what I want to do.

Speaker 1 (01:09:23):
I love what you just said, because that's exactly
that I think.
Most of us that settle for lessor mediocrity it's just a
really subconsciousjustification.
While we don't want to walkthat extra mile and we don't
want to choose the hard way, wewant to choose the easy way, and
then we justify it well, thepatient doesn't want it.
It's like no, no patient.

(01:09:45):
No patient signs up for amediocre result, like I don't
care how much you pay, whetheryou pay 10,000 or 100,000, no
patient wants a mediocre result.
And so that's the biggestbullshit that people talk about
and they say, even in meeting.
Sometimes, you see, in ameeting, that's the introduction
, the reason why I choose this,because I have patients that

(01:10:06):
want this really.

Speaker 2 (01:10:09):
Which is fine.
There's a place in the worldfor it.
It's just I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:10:14):
The patients don't dictate for me where it goes.

Speaker 2 (01:10:16):
I think if you give?

Speaker 1 (01:10:18):
patients two meals one tastes amazing, looks
amazing, and one looks like shitand tastes like shit.
I think at the end of the day,patients or the customer is
gonna look at the value andeither they're not gonna eat
because if they can't afford thegreat one, they're just gonna
go and make themselves asandwich.
They're not gonna eat some shitthat they get like food

(01:10:38):
poisoning.

Speaker 2 (01:10:39):
So some people eat shit and like it.
Some people eat shit and likeit.

Speaker 1 (01:10:42):
Now you're a foodie right, is that correct?

Speaker 2 (01:10:45):
Yeah, yeah, just a bit.
You're a foodie you offer.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
Also, I saw you offer sushi and your.
How did that come about?
It's just like some fun thingor it's another kind of creative
thing Are we gonna have a telerestaurant?
Next year in Beverly Hills.

Speaker 2 (01:11:06):
It's one of my goals in life?
Yes, to have one eventually.
I've never had any formaltraining, so I don't know about
formal cooking techniques andthings like that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:16):
It's a tough business , so make sure you partner up
with the right people.
It's a very tough business.

Speaker 2 (01:11:22):
Yeah, but I'll do eventually.
I have a couple of friends whoare like actual chefs, but I've
been cooking since I was a kidand for me it's always been fun
to create new recipes.
And what I do is I go shoppingand I just walk around and find
whatever new thing and I imaginewhat it would taste like with
something else.
I bring it home, I look what'son my counter, I make something
totally different and I make itonce and never make it again.

(01:11:45):
And sometimes I really like arecipe, so I'll just evolve it,
make a couple different things,but for me it's a little game
and I had made so many recipesat some point I forgot I started
to hashtag them or put them onFacebook.
So it was under Blendtale'skitchen and I had a Facebook
page for it and then a hashtagand eventually I said, oh, let
me make an Instagram page for it.

(01:12:05):
But that was only for like ayear or two that I did that, so
there aren't that many photos onthere, but there were just
recipes that I would make once,never make again.
And I do a lot of sushi sashimi,because I used to race both
these other boats, so mymechanic is actually who's
retired from racing now, buthe's a fisherman too and he goes

(01:12:26):
out to Mexico, 500 miles offshore, he's fishing and he comes
back and he barely eats fishhimself.
So he comes back with all thisstuff and gives it to me, and I
have all this yellowtail,bluefin, yellowfin, you know, to
Ono, and that's why you'd see alot of sushi on there, other
than the fact that I like itInteresting.

Speaker 1 (01:12:47):
So what's your favorite Persian dish for the
Persian audience?

Speaker 2 (01:12:51):
So one of the first things that I made when I was a
kid was actually a dish.
It was a mix between reime andOoh it's my favorite, which is
Reime and Badinchu.
And I made a dish, a lentil dish.
I combined them and added alittle jalapeno and some
different potato stuff and itwas actually one of the best
things I've made since that time.

(01:13:12):
It was amazing, Great.
My mom taught me how to cookPersian food in general, so she
had left to Iran to go pick upmy grandma when we were like 10
years old and that's when Istarted cooking Persian food a
lot Interesting.
So I was making Kreme,Rormasazi, all that stuff when I
was about like nine, 10 yearsold or so.

Speaker 1 (01:13:29):
Amazing, amazing.
So last question, before we getto our rapid fire, to wrap
things up, based on everythingthat's going on, the Wild West
that we started off with in ourfield, what do you think the
future holds for facial plasticsurgery?
What are, in your mind, goingto be the biggest breakthroughs

(01:13:51):
in our field, even though it's asurgical field, but let's look
at facial aesthetics in general,not just surgery, but also what
do you think our future holds?
And by future I'm not talkingabout in 30 years, I'm talking
about the next five to 10 years,while we are being used to our
own practice.

Speaker 2 (01:14:09):
Yeah, so lots changed in results because of social
media and exposure of resultsand things like that.
And the things that havechanged are the patients are
seeing more natural results.
They're also like it's Googlenow on social media, so they
just see there's all theseoptions out there whether
they're good or not, but they'reexposed to them, which is it's

(01:14:30):
cool.
The other is that we're seeingthat the fandom is changing.
So before, when we used to befans of only the people running
the journals and people who areable to publish, or the
academicians, now we're actuallyseeing that, wow, like Joe
Schmoe in Texas is getting themost incredible results doing

(01:14:53):
so-and-so technique and eventhough he's not lecturing, he's
lecturing online and he's gotthis new medium of teaching.
So I think that evolutiontowards better techniques is
happening faster because there'snot as much-how much more can
you justify fuckingsmasplication?
Give me a break.
How much more can you do it?
It's a joke at this point, Iknow it is.

(01:15:16):
People can't hide anymore andkeep defending everyone else and
each other because the oldpeople are getting so old they
can't defend it anymore.
They're not on social media.
The young people is who youhave to speak to now and defend
yourself against.
And they are no fools because,even though they lack the
experience, they are on thesocial media pages and they see
all these results and you can'tdeny it anymore.

(01:15:38):
You can say whatever you wantabout smasplication, but in the
end, proof's in the pudding.
You've got these photos and soI think that a lot is advancing
towards these people who arepushing out the results
repeatedly, and then you reallysee the results and you see who
the best ones are and we'relearning from them.
So we're not learning from the90-year-old rhino surgeon

(01:15:58):
anymore, who has a lot to offeragain for history and
understanding.
But the newer techniques arecoming from Carlos Neves and
they're coming from Giacono andthey're coming from everybody
else who really are proponentsof change change where change is
needed, not change where nochange is needed.
There's a lot of people wholike to talk about new things
for the sake of having somethingto talk about, because their

(01:16:20):
lives are boring, which happens50% of what we're seeing.

Speaker 1 (01:16:24):
That's how it used to be when everything was based on
publications.
People used to just publishbullshit, just to publish, and
it was completely worthless.

Speaker 2 (01:16:31):
So, yeah, it still happens.
It still happens, but we aregoing towards more natural
because of this.
So is there still a?

Speaker 1 (01:16:38):
place for fillers, by fillers I'm talking about.
So where in your mind is aplace for fillers?
And how do we protect our nurseinjectors and PAs to get rid of
this type of cognitive bias,because the truth of the matter
is that's pretty much the onlytool in their toolbox, and how

(01:17:01):
do we protect them fromthemselves in order not to
expect too much from it?

Speaker 2 (01:17:07):
What is one of the so one is really stopping all the
bullshit about euphemisms andhow you describe it.

Speaker 1 (01:17:13):
But how do you do that?
Biostimulers, how do you dothat?

Speaker 2 (01:17:17):
You just have to aggressively teach people.
I mean biostimulator.
Using the word biostimulator,it's a joke.
It's like calling a nuclearbomb biostimulator.

Speaker 1 (01:17:27):
Or like liquid facelift.
That's another one I loveLiquid facelift, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:30):
Well, those are marketing tools.
So those are liquid facelifts.
I don't mind so much.
Those are little marketingtools and it's like before I've
done a photo.
But biostimulation is a realbad euphemism For.

Speaker 1 (01:17:43):
Well, it is a marketing tool too.

Speaker 2 (01:17:44):
I mean, that's what they use.

Speaker 1 (01:17:45):
It is it's a bad.

Speaker 2 (01:17:47):
It's a harmful one, because liquid facelift doesn't
harm anybody.
At some point you have to knowhow much you can put in a face
and you're not going to get afacelift.
I get that, but biostimulationdoes harm people because you
think it's a vitamin, you thinkyou're injecting college in a
healthy way.
So the first, and you're not.
You can get a poison to benefityou, as we've seen with Botox,

(01:18:12):
but it's still a poison.
You have to know how to use itand when people call something
instead of a toxin, they call ita modulator or whatever else.
It's harmful.
You should know the potentialdamage that these things can do
to use them better.
So biostimulators are notinherently bad, but the way they
teach them is inherently bad,because they tell you that it's
just beneficial period and theythink that telling you anything

(01:18:34):
else means that, oh my God, it'ssacrilegious and you can't use
it.
Instead of, this is a productwhen used properly is great.
When not, it has major risks.
But the people doing it theythink that if they speak badly
against it in any way, thatinstead of making use of it more
safe and precise, that they'rejust telling you not to use it.

(01:18:54):
So they don't.
They're black and white.
They're not understanding thatwe don't live in black and white
.
So fillers are fantastic.
I love using fillers.
I can use it for musclemodulation.
I can use it for volume contour.
I can use it for a lot ofthings.
But I know it's a when you saymuscle modification.

Speaker 1 (01:19:11):
What do you mean by that?

Speaker 2 (01:19:14):
Muscle modulation.
I can get muscles on the faceto work better.
How so?
There are certain muscles thatI can get to work better and I
can improve color on the facewith filler placement.
So I know it's a whole notherworld of filler teaching, but if
you look at people who smile,get big smile lines and a little
bit of a dip on the chin,that's a muscle modulation.

(01:19:35):
So I know how to change themuscle function with putting
filler to support the muscle.
So many smiles again in and outhere on the zygomaticus is
because it's that the fascialexpansion of the zygomaticus,
and it's in that because there'sno support under it.
And I know how to put fillerunder it to get the muscle back
into a shape where it canfunction and flex better.
Somebody's hyper flexing aroundthe lip and around the mouth.

(01:19:56):
I know I'm not doing Botox.
I'm adding filler to put aspacer in between the skin and
the muscle which disperses theenergy to the skin but also
diminishes the amount of muscleflexion by causing some
resistance.
So these are things that youcan do with filler that are so
easy to do.
So I love these things.
Most people don't understandthose things.
They don't understand color,they don't understand muscle

(01:20:17):
function and then they don'tunderstand the limits of filler.
But I love doing filler.
I'm probably one of the betterteachers of it.
Even though I don't teachconstantly, I know how to teach
it and so I love teaching it.
I love doing it.
It's just it's taught wrong Alleverywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:20:35):
So that's the problem .

Speaker 2 (01:20:37):
So hopefully the people you come across
understand filler and there's nodefinitive Everyone's like.
Filler lasts forever.
Filler goes away at six months.

Speaker 1 (01:20:46):
No, the answer is.

Speaker 2 (01:20:49):
Maybe you know it's like some people who goes away,
some people doesn't, some peoplewho kind of does, some people
who changes.
That's the reality of it.
And when people realize that,they start to become more
responsible with how to use it,because then they realize you
don't serially keep adding it onthe face, you don't serially do
all thorough to people becauseyou're not serially stimulating

(01:21:09):
collagen, you're seriallycausing fibrosis at some point.
So radio frequency, laserfillers, these are things that
change the way the facefunctions and stimulates the
face.
And when you're stimulating theface you got to understand how
simulation can be bad.
So you have to do it withrespect to the face.

Speaker 1 (01:21:30):
And I think it's very difficult to teach.
I think the way all of thesethings are taught in like
weekend courses or in a one weekcourse, which is there is no
way, and the educators that areselected to teach, I mean, I
think there is so much lack ofstructure in a very quickly
advancing science and I thinkthat's why it's a wild west out
there, and I think it's reallyup to the consumer to do their

(01:21:53):
due diligence and find theexperts and, like you said,
based on results, just look atwho gets the good results.
It's not that hard and asopposed to just getting suckered
into a pseudo science, that wasgreat advice.
Now let's go to our rapid fire,as we're concluding here, and

(01:22:13):
so the first question is quicklyname the procedure you find
most rewarding to perform.

Speaker 2 (01:22:20):
I know it's hard one, but Well facelift is the
facelift the most rewardingbecause it's not the most
technically difficult for me oranything, it's just the one that
you do like one thing and youget so many improvements in
facial function and facialappearance.
So you lift the face neck andyou see, the brow gets better,

(01:22:42):
the eyes look better even whenyou don't touch them and it's
because you've kind of alteredthe dynamic of how the muscles
pulling the things like that.
And facelift for me is like thebiggest bang for your buck for
facial rejuvenation.

Speaker 1 (01:22:53):
Love it, Feel the same way.
What's the best piece of adviceyou've ever received In your
life?
Not just wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:23:04):
Yeah, it's, it's.
My mom told me, benny, you'renot perfect.
You know, it's always aboutimprovement, improvement,
improvement.
She told me that a milliondifferent ways.
I can't quarter once, but thatwas her viewpoint was always
you're not perfect.
She would call me perfect.
Funny enough, you know, you'remy.

(01:23:25):
You know the Farsi.
They say little, perfect,golden, golden dick, but oh,
golden.
But then she golden, we need,yeah.
So she, she would say reallylike it's about improvement,
improvement, improvement.
Always improve yourself, don'tblame anybody.
That was like two things.
She would say Don't blameanybody else, and just that's

(01:23:46):
great advice I love it, I loveit.

Speaker 1 (01:23:50):
Give her a big much from me for that advice.
Who was your hero growing up?
Einstein, my hero fromchildhood.

Speaker 2 (01:24:00):
From.
I was reading his books fromwhen I was second grade, like
seven years old.
Yeah, I admired that kind ofintelligence in the world more
than anything, because I, I wasalways very curious about the
world and wanted to understandthe world, and not just science.
Science is kind of the world,you know, but I just wanted to

(01:24:23):
understand everything and I Iadmired him and still do,
because we're never going to getto somebody like that, you know
, but it's just that's likethat's the coolest thing ever to
me.
And then, yeah, past that, it'slike anybody who's talented in
any field, like I just admirethem.
You know, I see singers, I seepainters, I see racers, you know

(01:24:45):
F1, anything like they dothings we can just never do.
It's like it's just cool tocool to watch.
You know, I like watchingpeople in the extreme.
I like watching my friend cook.
You watch my friend cook,michael Voltageo, and it's
another level, like when he'scooking.
It's like it's just things youcan never do.
It's like it's so cool See.

Speaker 1 (01:25:06):
I'm like you.
I'm, I get inspired byexcellence.
It doesn't matter what field itis or what part of life it is,
and I mean, it's one of the mostinspiring things to me in life
Ever since I was a kid.
Every time I saw excellence, Ijust to me, it was like you know
, watching something beautiful,and so I really, I really feel

(01:25:28):
you there.
What is the greatest, biggestmistake you've ever made?

Speaker 2 (01:25:35):
That's a girlfriend.

Speaker 1 (01:25:38):
Other than other than women.

Speaker 2 (01:25:39):
Other than women.
I'm a little bit of a per dayto Latin pop style.
I'll tell you that right now.
Okay.
That would be the biggestmistake I've.
I don't have many regrets in mylife because I don't mind
failures, like they don't hurtme, they don't draw me back, you
kind of just.
It is what it is.
You fall and you keep me.
Like you know, I wouldn't havegotten a good at skiing if I
didn't fall a bunch of times.

(01:26:00):
The only regret I had in mylife was that there's no other
regrets really, like everythingare like little minor regrets
Like ah, I should have done this, should have done that, but
didn't draw me back.
So not many other things.
I mean there's little thingswhere I wish I had done things
sooner in life, but I'm in adecent place.

Speaker 1 (01:26:18):
So what, what?
What are you going to do whenyou retire, If you retire?

Speaker 2 (01:26:24):
I've got so many things, so that's not.
A.
Retirement is not an issue forme, like it is for most people.

Speaker 1 (01:26:29):
What's the number one on your bucket list?
What's going to be the numberone thing on your bucket list
when you can't talk about thenumber?

Speaker 2 (01:26:35):
one thing.
It's not.
Uh, I can't talk about thenumber one thing.
It's a secret, it's perceivedas negative by most of the world
, so I won't, I won't go into it, but I have an artistic
endeavor of me revisiting peopleof the past, which will be very
fun for me.
But, uh, there are other thingsthat I have planned with.
I want to get back into racingcars, boats um, you know, I've

(01:26:56):
got a lot of hobbies and it'snot just those things, so there
is no end to the things that Iwill be doing.
The second I have time, and youknow, with Cupid, like I love
growing this thing and I'mgrowing the Beverly Hills hair
group, which is our hairtransplant stuff, and like, uh,
I developed a lot of things forhair that I never published and,

(01:27:17):
uh, it just wasn't, you know,exciting to me.
Once I developed it, it was fundeveloping, and then, once you
finished developing and it's notany better I kind of lost
interest.
But I have a lot to give to theworld for that.
So there's a lot I can do and Idon't think I'll ever fully
retire, but certainly I'm goingto become hyper selective on

(01:27:38):
whom I operate on and do lessdays a week.
So I've already taken it downat four days a week, but, uh,
that's what I'm going to do,probably at some point when,
instead of retiring and it's notgoing to be that far in the
future Uh, I've, I'm, I'mgetting close to like plateauing
on certain things and surgery,and if I can't improve them, I
get bored and it uh.

(01:27:59):
What excites me and makes mework hard is the challenge
chance to keep getting somethingbetter or creating something.
If I can't create, I I feelvery boring, Like I feel like
it's like someone telling a jokeover and over again.
You know, um, it's not excitingto me to do that.
I don't want to be somebody who, you know, puts Ikea furniture

(01:28:21):
together and calls himself acarpenter.

Speaker 1 (01:28:23):
That's like, that's not me, love it Porsche or
Ferrari.

Speaker 2 (01:28:29):
It's always Porsche.
I'm looking at a Ferrari rightnow, so there's a Ferrari
hanging right over there.
I love.

Speaker 1 (01:28:37):
I love you for that answer.

Speaker 2 (01:28:39):
Yeah, ferrari is a more beautiful car, like you
can't say.
It's not like Ferrari andclassics that I want to have a
collection out of a collectionof Ferraris, but if I had to
like, drive myself to death andbe the happiest driving, porsche
wins um on the driving front.
And don't forget, porsche hasthe Carrera GT, which is one of

(01:29:00):
the greatest cars.

Speaker 1 (01:29:01):
It's actually my favorite car in the world, the
Carrera GT.
You know, I grew up in Germany,so Porsche, to me goes, is very
near to my heart.
So yeah, I'm a Porsche guy.
Um, early bird or night owl,which one describes you best?

Speaker 2 (01:29:17):
Yeah, I'm, I'm unfortunately both I, um I.
I burn the candle at all ends.
So when people talk about likethe work hard, play hard, I kind
of just laugh at them.
I'm like you're.
You're a joke, you know.
Like the way I've lived, mylife is pretty severe.
Um, I would prefer not to be anearly bird.
So if you want preference, Iwould rather be a night owl.

(01:29:39):
I'd rather not be up at five inthe morning.
It's just for me to beefficient, I have to.
Um, when COVID happened, I waswaking up naturally at 10 am
every day, so my body wants tobe up at 10, even though my
alarm clock in my head wakes upat five, five, 30.
Interesting.

Speaker 1 (01:29:54):
I feel that I'm the same way.
Now, last question.

Speaker 2 (01:29:56):
We're Middle Eastern, I know.

Speaker 1 (01:29:59):
Um, my wife goes to bed at nine.
That's when my my brain startsfunctioning.
Um, you're go to last question.
You're go to relaxation after ahard days of work.
What's your go to thing?
You do.

Speaker 2 (01:30:14):
I had a funny answer that I was going to say but
let's not say away from happyending, so it's joke, it's total
joke.
Um my, my relaxation after workis really like coming at home
plopping on the couch Like youhad a shit day, like you had a
shit day.

Speaker 1 (01:30:34):
You're like you know screw all of this.

Speaker 2 (01:30:37):
I like to just watch.
So I have this like specialplace in my house.
Um, I like to sit on the coucheat while I stare at my cars, my
car, my cars are behind my TV.

Speaker 1 (01:30:49):
It's like a glass, like a glass wall, or something.

Speaker 2 (01:30:52):
It's a wall, yeah.
And so I'm staring at the carswhile I'm eating and like for me
it's having, it's like staringat someone you love, you know,
for somebody who's single.
So you like stare at the carsand I like talk to them and I
say, like I get warm, fuzzyfeeling and I get butterflies
and I talk, I say I love you, sofor me, that's.

Speaker 1 (01:31:13):
And they don't complain either.
Right, and they can't complain,they can't talk, they do you
have to take into the mechanic?
Oh, that's true, it's okay,yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:31:22):
So for me it's like when I'm exhausted, my happy
place in the world is on theocean.
Nice, throw me on a boat.
And I've instructed my brother,uh, when I die, to throw me
into the ocean.
And he's like, oh, cremate you.
I'm like, no, throw me into theocean.
But he finds that strategicallyto be difficult.
So we may have to do yeah,that's going to be.

Speaker 1 (01:31:40):
either way, that's where I want to be is in the
ocean.
Beautiful Ben dude.
Thank you so much.
It was um very inspiring uhconversation.
I love you for who you are, forcoming on and giving me the
privilege and honor to just chatwith you.
Shoot the shit for an hour uhand 30 minutes actually now, and

(01:32:00):
um, I I'll definitely come andvisit you next time in
California.
Uh, even if I just loaned forthe car, uh, your car collection
, just to you know, check outyour.
Carrera GT, which is my favoritecar in the world, the best car
in the world, thank you.
Thank you, ben.
All right, buddy.
Thank you.
So, um, if anybody wants to getin touch with you, uh, how do

(01:32:23):
they get in touch with you?

Speaker 2 (01:32:26):
Uh, they can contact me.
Instagram is the easiest.
It's just Dr Ben Talib.
So the R B E N T and you're theone responding, and then my not
always if you're really goodlooking over, but it's a.
It's usually my staff responsebecause there's a lot of
messages on there.
And then there is a BeverlyHills centercom is our website.
Uh, there's a beautiful consultform on there now.

(01:32:48):
Uh, courtesy of Dr Mike Nyax.
Genius, and how he set up hiswebsite.

Speaker 1 (01:32:54):
Uh, so perfect, which he was a previous guest on this
show and I know you guys aregood friends and uh any question
that I should have asked youthat I didn't ask.
No, sir, you, you, you got tothe heart of it.
Thank you so much, ben Love.
You Keep on with the success.
Can't wait to see uh all yourfuture endeavors and uh

(01:33:14):
definitely will come and visityou next time in California.
Thank you, sir, my pleasure.

Speaker 2 (01:33:19):
My pleasure.
I can't wait to to watch ustalk, Thank you brother,
appreciate you Everyone episodesover.

Speaker 1 (01:33:26):
I hope you enjoyed my conversation with the one and
only Dr Ben Talib from BeverlyHills, california, and, uh,
please, please, please, don'tforget to leave me a review on
that lie tunes or put a commenton the Q and a section on
Spotify, and thanks for tuningin Until next time, bye.

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