"The Aesthetic Approach to Vitality and Social Connection" with Dr. Tim Pearce

Episode Transcript
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Dr. Daria Hamrah (00:10):
Hello everyone , welcome to another amazing
episode of the Daria Hamrahpodcast.
Today I have a very specialguest, a very inspiring guest, a
colleague and celebrity on theinternet whose mission is to
help ethical condition mastermedical aesthetics.
He's an expert in medicalaesthetics and anti-aging, dr

(00:34):
Tim Pierce, out of Manchester,the UK, and he is coming on
today to just not only talkabout the art and science of
aesthetics and beauty, but we'realso going to discuss a science
that has actually been therefor quite a while, just not
known to the general publicenough, which is the science of

(00:59):
longevity and anti-aging fromthe inside and anti-aging from
the inside.
So we're going to talk aboutboth how we can anti-age from
the outside as well as from theinside today, and I think you'll
find it very interesting tohear what options are available
today with today's science, asthere is a lot of controversy

(01:24):
out there, as there is still adichotomy between the
traditional physicians,insurance doctors and what's
taught currently in medicalschools versus what emerging
science has revealed in the pastdecade, which is fascinating.
But just to introduce Dr Piercea little bit, you know he's a

(01:48):
very inspiring person at least Iknow it to many of it as well
as me, and that's why I wantedto have him on this podcast
today, since he really has anamazing talent and ability to
communicate and educate.
And I can't tell you I mean I Istudied anatomy and physiology

(02:09):
for probably 30 years now andevery time I see one of his
e-learning lessons I learnedsomething new, and whether it is
a reminder of something thatI've forgotten or something that
truly I actually didn't know.
So I always love his posts andhis YouTube videos.
So we will share the linksafter the podcast, but just to

(02:34):
show his vast experience.
Over the past 20 years, he hascompleted over 25,000 cosmetic
procedures and is the owner ofSkinViva, which is one of the
UK's top aesthetic clinics.
As well as SkinViva Trainingand also has an e-learning site,

(02:57):
and you can check out hiswebsite in the link below in
this podcast.
So, without further ado, tim,welcome to my show, and it's an
honor to have you and tell mehow did your journey start in
medical aesthetics?
Now, you studied medicine andthen what?

(03:19):
All of a sudden, you thoughtyou want to make people
beautiful.

Dr. Tim Pearce (03:24):
Great question.
Thank you very much for thatlovely introduction.
Like I said just before we cameon, I really value like a
really authentic, honestconversation.
So I'm going to be completelyhonest with that question, which
was I saw an ability to havesome autonomy and to make a bit
of cash on the side, and I thinkthat's how many clinicians
start.
We work in the public healthsector.

(03:47):
At one point it was my dreamjob until I was doing it and
then as much as and I stillactually work in the public
sector just very part-time, butI could not see myself doing
that for a lifetime.
I'm creative.
I don't fit the typical kind ofprofile of a doctor, if you, if
you do the psychotype of a, ofa clinician.

(04:08):
Um, I'm very open and creativeand I value autonomy and it's
the creative element inparticular that I I could I
could see was not going to havean outlet in the nhs and I would
.
I tried many times.
I tried.
Um, it was like this juniordoctor's dragon den was the
first time I really went for it.
I was trying to get funding forthis idea for a system that
would build a feedback loopbetween clinicians in the ER,

(04:30):
because there was a lot of badpractice going on and I could
see the clinicians were nottalking up to their superiors
saying, I don't think you shoulddo it that way, and the
superiors were kind ofsustaining kind of relatively
out of date stuff or justunnecessary stuff, and I wanted
to solve that problem.
But there was never any fundingor any backing or there's

(04:51):
always a reason why the systemhad to stay the same, and so
there was a lack of autonomy andthere was a lack of potential
for growth in what I saw.
Once I was in what was once mydream job and I started to look
for other things and there wasnothing quite like aesthetics
for just an easy transition out.
At least it seemed that way.
To be honest, it wasn't as easyas I thought it was going to be

(05:12):
.
But you know, you think you caninject, so why not do a few
injections, as many cliniciansstart out thinking, and so that
was my move into it.
It was never the plan, but itdid tick a few boxes.
And then I think, like a lot ofpeople, when you're in the new
situation, you start to look formore value and more things that
you can do, and it actuallybecame richer the longer I was

(05:36):
in it, as opposed to what Ithought was going to happen,
which I thought I was going toget bored with it.

So to explain us the journey from being a
student I know we're alwaysstudents of the field, that's
not what I mean I mean fromtruly becoming a master and
feeling that now I have theability to educate, to teach.
When did you, at what point didyou find yourself ready and

(06:04):
what motivated you?
I mean you find yourself readyand what motivated you?
I mean you're probably busyenough doing what you do.
What motivated you now to goout of your way and educate, not
just like in a very informalway, but really in in such a
professional way that mostmedical schools are not able to

(06:27):
teach that way.
With the visuals and the justin detail and in-depth
discussions of anatomy and howit pertains to just the clinical
techniques, like, did you havea teacher that inspired you?
Like, oh my god, I want to dothe same or is it just?

(06:49):
How did all of that evolve?
Kind of walk us through that sopeople get to know you a little
bit it's funny.

I remember being a junior doctor, on the ward I
learned to take blood.
You know done a few hundred ofthose, a few thousand probably
by then and I saw these twojunior nurses and they had to do
the blood round and I rememberthinking I really want to teach
them, um, and I don't reallyknow where that came from, but I
got really excited.
I knew I could do it.
I knew I could and I knew whatthey were going through, because

(07:17):
I remember what it was like notknowing and not being able to
get the blood out and feelingawkward about stabbing people
that you just met with a needle.
Because you know there's whenyou're very junior, it's a, it's
a shift you have to go throughyeah and um and I just I just
got I really knew that I I couldteach them something and I
wanted to do it.
That was the first time I kindof had a penny drop moment of
it's really fun helping peopleum, progress and it's still.

(07:42):
I would say that's the thingthat's actually at the heart of
everything I want to do is Ijust love to try Same with
patients.
I teach patients a lot as well.
That's probably a lot of whereit started.
If you get a patient who'sinterested in the topic, isn't
just kind of trying to solve ashort-term problem, but wants to
understand.
I talk a lot and teach a lot tothose patients and it's just

(08:04):
something I've always enjoyeddoing trying to capture ideas
and turn them into words, tryingto put boundaries on ideas as
well.
I think a lot of teaching.
If you just give thedescription of what it is
without the description of whatit isn't, it lacks something.
So a lot of my content I'mtrying to put a boundary next to

(08:25):
the idea, otherwise it's.
It basically means less.
You know there's a but afterwhere you should inject um.
That makes more sense than ifyou just give the the dot, dot,
dot to dot.
Description of actions.
Um, and I said, and I justalways enjoyed making making
sense of those sort of ideas andturning them into words and and
it it wasn't.

(08:46):
It was actually also, like Isaid, it was never the plan, but
I I found when I did teach Iwas lit up and I wanted to do
more of it, and so I kind ofwent went down that route now,
what are in in your teachingjourney?

um, you've, you've taught now thousands of
practitioners, from physicians,nurses, any sort of healthcare
providers.
What do you feel is the biggestchallenge when trying to teach
all these?
You know practitioners that arevery motivated, you know, just
like how you got into thisinitially are motivated by the

(09:26):
financial aspect of it.
How do you address theseethical boundaries and how do
you let them know all this stuffthat they don't know?
And tell me a little bit aboutthat responsibility and that
challenge that you have in doingso.

I heard someone give a good talk recently and
I'm afraid I forgot their name,but they said at one point that
God tricks you into doing goodwork, and the idea is, yeah, you
have this idea that you want tobuy a Lamborghini or something
which has never been my goal,but say that that's your goal.
But you then?
So you set out with a selfishgoal that's just about you, and

(10:07):
then you figure out that theonly way you're ever going to
achieve that goal is actually bydelivering value to other
people.
And so my introduction on myfoundation course is all about
what is the value of medicalaesthetics.
Like it, because if you startout thinking it's about
injections or it's about evenjust about beauty and not about
the actual battle that thehumans that are giving you money

(10:30):
are going through, that theyneed help with through the
medium of appearance, thenyou'll never be as good at it or
as well paid as the clinicianswho are really in touch with
what it is the patient's alreadyseeking and what they need,
which is so much more than aprocedure.
It's guidance, you know, it'sunderstanding, it's all the
safety elements, are all thethings that you have to put a

(10:51):
lot of time and effort into, andI think most people actually
love that.
I've heard a set aboutcompanies as well.
If you're a company that's onlyfocused on money, you never get
the best talent, because no onealthough everyone wants to make
money, they also want to dosomething with purpose, and and
that was my same issue, like onthe, the first week I started

(11:12):
seeing patients, I I rememberthinking I need to find some
greater purpose in this, notjust that they're paying me.
I need to understand it.
And I often tell the story of myfirst patient, who was 92 and
uh, and I remember thinking, howam I going to make a 92 year
old look younger?
Because I thought that was whatmy job was to make her look
younger.
And anyway, she told me thisamazing story and I always feel
so grateful that she told it tome on my first day, which was

(11:35):
that she didn't really want tolook younger.
She wanted to not frown so thatpeople would talk to her on the
bus, and I was like, well,that's what it's about.
It's about human connection, youknow.
It's about people connectingthrough appearance, and and then
that's the real value, and thenit makes sense why a 92 year
old would have Botox, it'sbecause she wants to connect
with people and she has abarrier.

(11:55):
I can remove the barrier andshe can go make the most of the
rest of her life.
And so that story is on is onthe front of my training manual
at Skin Viva Training, so thateveryone starts reading that,
because that's where I want themto start.
And I'm all for people makingmoney.
You know the more money youmake, the better, so long as
you're doing it to serve people.

(12:15):
You know it has to start withthe value that you generate and
I think then you know I'm astrong believer that no one
really loses if you build yourbusiness in that way.

I think I completely resonate with you.
I think, ultimately, what makesone successful or business
successful is about intent andpurpose, and that's what you're
alluding to.
If the intent is there, if thepurpose is there, you don't have
to work hard.
You know, everything comesnatural, and if you don't, you
don't have to work hard.
Everything comes natural.
And if you don't, then youcan't sustain it long term.

(12:49):
And if you can't sustain abusiness long term, you can't
buy your Lamborghini.
But I love that you said, andthat's really true we get
tricked by these materialisticthings that society makes us
believe that we need to callourselves successful, but they
just get us onto the path.

(13:10):
They just get us starting andget us going.
Once we're on the path and ifit is truly the path that we are
passionate about, our attitudeswill change and our goals
change and it becomes morepurpose than a job or anything
else.
And I think one of the thingsthat I love the most.

(13:32):
I had Dr Stephen Dayen on apodcast several years ago and he
beautifully said and I alwaysrepeat that sentiment that we're
really, if you look at it,we're self-esteem doctors, we're
self-confidence doctors, andthat's what you gave that
92-year-old by getting rid ofher frown lines is giving her

(13:54):
self-confidence back, so shefeels like others are going to
talk to her and she's not goingto be lonely.
And so it's not just aboutvanity, it's not just about
beauty she's not going to belonely.
And so it's not just aboutvanity, it's not just about
beauty.
It's about feeling accepted,feeling confident and gaining
our self-esteem back, no matterwhat the age is, whether you're
a 20 year old that is not happyabout the nose, or you're a 92

(14:16):
year old that feel people lookat you as a grumpy old lady yeah
, it's a, it's human connectionand it's what I actually think.

It's the foundation of everything that we
do.
It's like you you basicallycan't do any work in your life
without human connection andthere's also no purpose to it
without that human connection.
So, um, it's, it's so easy.
Once you talk to enoughpatients, it should become the
center of everything that you do.
And I think there are a lot ofgood practitioners who've just
been trained in a slightlydifferent way and they think the

(14:46):
center of what they do iseither anatomy or beauty or some
other commercial driver thatsomeone told them, because I
also had all of that in thebeginning.
But if you just boil it down tothat we're helping people
connect with each other, thenyou see where the value comes
from and it makes everythingmatter so much more.
And it's paradoxically thedeepest thing, even though

(15:06):
people think we're the mostsuperficial thing, the most
superficial industry.

But actually that human connection is
actually very deep and veryimportant.
And how do you feel the patient?
You know we live in an areawhere there is many there's
probably more untrainedrainedclinicians out there, especially
here in the united states whereit's all all the time, every
day, in the news.
It is now with the counterfeitbotox that's out there in the
news.
How can the consumer or thepatient protect him or herself?

(15:38):
What are some advice that youcan give the common person that
is looking for aestheticrejuvenation as seeking a
practitioner?

yeah, it's really.
It's actually.
It's really hard and,unfortunately, often the
instincts that patients have arenot correct.
Um, and I I once, as part ofresearching growing my clinic, I
I asked people to search foranother clinic with me,
overlooking their shoulder, andasked, and then I interviewed
them about how they chose.
It was really interesting, butit wasn't what I expected.

(16:09):
So, um, I remember getting alot of people choosing the
clinic based on the photographs.
They said well, it looks good,so it must be.

It must be good, you know you mean the
actual photograph of the clinic?

like yeah, the environment yeah and you.
Obviously it's a proxy forcompetence, because it, if it
looks shiny and big, it's it'sprobably they've got a competent
person behind it, butunfortunately you don't.
You don't actually know forsure.
You know we've got plenty ofclinicians who are extremely
good at marketing and buildingprocesses that drive patients

(16:42):
through, but when you talk tothe patients afterwards they
often feel worse.
They're actually not better off.
Um, you know they've.
They feel.
There's one near me famous forkind of sullying patients into
treatments and that's the word Iget you that used all the time.
It's that you need, there'ssomething wrong with you.
You need this um, and it worksbecause patients look up to
doctors and doctors they will.

(17:02):
They will just go down theroute of delivering the
procedure that they've told themthey have to have in order to
be complete um.
So, but it does get out with afew smart patients and, of
course, the more patients wholistens to, to kind of good
podcasts like yours and figureout kind of what it really
should be about them, the harderit is for those clinicians to
to run amok in that way, and Idon't think there are many of

(17:24):
them.
I think it's probably the 10%who are narcissistic and the
rest are trying their best to domore valuable work.
But as a patient, I think Iwould delve into reviews and I
would pour over the sentences,not the number of stars.
I want to look for a clinicianwho doesn't make you feel small,

(17:47):
who's listening, who isinvolved in not just the
physical but the emotional sideof stuff.
I also think it's usefullooking at dissatisfied patients
and seeing how the cliniciansrespond, because none of us get
100% satisfaction rates, butit's how you respond to that.
That's a big part of it and I'dbe looking for evidence that

(18:10):
they value safety, that they sayno to people, that they give
guidance, that there's nojudgment for asking for the
wrong thing.
And, of course, woven into that,you want the hardest bit for a
patient to spot is actually the,the technical skill.
Um, I don't know, particularlywith something like facial

(18:32):
surgery.
It's.
It's so complex and most of theoutcomes you you might see
before and after, but you don'tsee the.
You know how many nerves areinjured or whatever the issue is
and it's that's extremely hard.
But you want practitioners whoare, who are able to be, to
present their true selves andnot some cardboard cut out.

(18:52):
I think is part of this and Ithink that comes with a degree
of self-confidence and integritythat if you're able to have an
open, honest discussion forexample, I think, a podcast,
where you're you've admitted youknow sometimes the results
aren't what that, what you thinkthey are, and you have where
you're, you've admitted you knowsometimes the results aren't
what you think they are and youhave to.
You're grappling with thatversus the types who are
everything's always fine on myside.
I think that's that's someindication that you're you're

(19:14):
striving for the truth, which isreally, rather than trying to
present an idea, but aside fromthat, it's volumes of treatments
.
I'm a big believer in expertisethrough practice, like I don't
think it's very easy to become,you know, even with the training
, the best you can do withtraining um is give people a

(19:36):
simple model in their head andthen the real reality of
actually doing that is there'sinfinitely more stuff, and
that's partly why I'm neverafraid of sharing everything I
know, because there's always somuch more and so many different
ways of describing it.
But that comes from.
You know, there's a lot ofreflective learning and practice
.
That is also important.

(19:57):
So those are some of the tips.
There's probably a lot more toit, but it is a tricky thing to
do well.
There's probably a lot more toit, but it is a tricky thing to
do well.

So how do you address that with your students
or clinicians that come and youbasically teach?
How do you teach them thatmindset and that self-awareness,
that look, just because youtook this class doesn't make you
an expert, so you still shouldbe self-aware and look

(20:27):
critically at your results.
And how do you?
You know, I call it sometimes Icall it doctor dysmorphia,
where you know the change youcreated now is the norm and you
don't.
You kind of get tangled in thatand then you keep.
You see it on these patientsthat keep getting blown up with
fillers and I don't personallybelieve it's a patient's fault.

(20:47):
You know if a patient comes tome and says I want more fillers,
you know it's up to me to sayno.
So how do you?
I found it very hard to teachthat self-awareness where the
clinician can protect him orherself from that, what I call
clinician dysmorphia.

(21:08):
Is that something you addressin your classes?

So this is the problem of you know, the small
child who loves his own drawing.

Mm-hmm.
Yes, exactly.

That's a great analogy.
Yeah, it's a it's.
It's really hard, and one ofthe things I do is I always
congratulate patients who areclinicians who are dissatisfied.
A lot of people message me andthey're dissatisfied, and I'm
like this is fantastic, becauseif you're not dissatisfied with
maybe 50% of your work, thenyou're not seeing it, because
it's really hard to make a humanface.

(21:52):
It's probably reasonable to justturn everyone into a score.
If someone's a six out six andyou make them to seven or eight,
some people can do that quiteeasily, but once they're an
eight, to try and make them a 10is very easy.
That you keep them the same ormake them slightly worse, and
that the dissatisfaction issomething that you should
grapple with and accept as partof what it takes to be good, and

(22:15):
if you're not ever dissatisfied, you're missing something.
So, um, I think social mediasometimes helps people, because
the anxiety of it not beingright makes them more
self-critical.
Um, but so a lot of clinicianswill talk to us about that on
our forums, where we supportthem as they.
They feel like none of theirwork is good enough and the only

(22:35):
thing I can say is this is abetter state of mind than
thinking you're great and notbeing um.
I don't know if you can makesomeone who doesn't have that
see it it's.

I'm not sure yeah so yeah, so the one thing
I'm alluding to is taste.
You know you find people in ourprofession that have good taste
and bad taste.
You know it's hard to explainit.
I mean it.
Of course it all goes to thebeauty norms, or what we find
subconsciously as beautiful, andit doesn't necessarily have to

(23:07):
be perfect.
It's not about numbers andratios like it's taught in
textbook, it's just a harmony ofeverything, and beauty is in
the eye of the beholder.
But then you see people orclinicians that have great taste
.
They really understand beauty,and some that don't, and I know

(23:27):
I'm I'm being a little bit vaguehere with my description.
But how do you, can you evenaddress that?
Can you even teach taste?

well, I once uh over lockdown.
I I asked I server of myaudience to see if they would
want to sculpt with me, becausewe're all locked down.
Like why don't we do a coursewhere I'll buy some clay and you
can all kind of watch me?
And I got quite a negativeresponse.
People didn't want to do it andI was kind of sad by that.
I did it anyway, I didn't do itwith, I did it by myself and I

(24:04):
don't know a lot of people don'tlike the messiness of it.
I swear it's kind of a sillyreason.
But I tell you what I learnedfrom doing that is that there's
always room for more improvement.
And I would do my first one andI'd look at it and I'd be proud
of myself because I'd neverdone a sculpture before and it

(24:26):
looked a lot like a human head,would I?

like it if it was my head or my wife's head?

Absolutely not.
So then I was like, okay, thisis interesting, I'm proud of
that, I could do it.
But why don't I want to put iton social media?
It's because it looks like analien, if I'm honest.
So I need to try again and thenmake it better, and that is a
joyous process and I actuallythink it's a lot of, actually,
what is most interesting aboutlife, which is we don't

(24:50):
understand stuff.
You grapple with it and thenyou have a moment of
enlightenment where you get thiseuphoric like oh, now I
understand, there's a gentlecurve there.
Without the curve, you lookround, put the curve in or the.
You know there's so many thingsas I was sculpting that that
were, um, that that had those,that wonderful euphoric moment
and it just makes you consciousof the details and most of us,

(25:12):
um, it's worth knowing that mostpeople still respond to
beautiful people as beautifulpeople, even if they are not
artistic.
And so what that means is theyhave somewhere in their brain an
idea of what beauty is.
They just don't have it intheir cerebral cortex.
It's not a conscious idea, it'sunconscious.
So the reconnecting of thosetwo things, I believe, is

(25:33):
possible through experience.
It's not possible through justsaying oh, I looked at a
beautiful face.
That's what a beautiful facelooks like.
You actually have to trysomething not like it and then
figure out what's wrong with itand and then you get better at
it.
So, um, that's why I thinksculpting is a great thing to do
, but we're limited as trainersin terms of what people think of

(25:55):
, in terms of what they want topay for, in terms of training.
It's one of the struggles.
We've just had it again.
I was with all my trainers theother day and they were saying
we want to train in a differentorder.
Um, we don't want to start with, like a nasolabial fold
injection is too dangerous forpeople who just starting.
So we're, we're trying to thinkof ways, but but the you're
always up against the commercialsituation, of course, um, and

(26:18):
trying to do things in a waythat that people actually will.
People say they want things,but they don't want to pay for
things.
So come and come and do.
A sculpting course sounds funfor me to be worth my time.
It's.
It's unlikely that I'm.
You know, it'll be a featurethat we do once a week.
Let's put it that way.
I might.
I might get some reallypassionate clinicians who you
know, come and do it, uh, but Idon't think it's going to be or

(26:39):
I could maybe do it in differentway in terms of online but it's
not going to be something thatthe average clinician, when
they're first starting out, isgoing to do a sculpting course
in their first year.
It's just not commercially theright sequence, unfortunately.
That would be the right thingto do for people who are going
to buy in more broadly.
I think you probably could dothat with a section of the
market, but it's just not theaverage clinician who's starting

(27:01):
out.

Now this e-learning, and you also do um
live learning.
Uh, in addition to e-learning,um, you know that's a huge um
business aspect and um take, I'msure it takes a lot of your
time and I know your wife, whois um partnering with you in
that endeavor, is obviously agreat help and you guys are
doing that together.

(27:26):
And how do you and how are youguys enjoying the business
aspect of the aesthetics?
I know you know as clinicianswho were raised to take care of
people and were never taughtanything about business.
How do you learn all of that?
Is it you know?
Or your wife?
How did you guys get into it?
And how did you learn?

(27:47):
Because obviously you'resuccessful, you must be doing
something right.
Did you have good mentors?
Did you just make a bunch ofmistakes and learn from that, or
all of the above?

I've made so many mistakes, but the mistakes
are, the are usually the bestthing that you do, um, but only
once you've solved, obviously.
So, um, I knew nothing aboutbusiness, I was just hopelessly
optimistic.
Um, miranda was the same.
We both come from very publicsector.
You know, we're quite asocialist country.
We have basically socialistfamilies, some of them slightly

(28:18):
communist so you know it wasn't,we were kind of the pariahs of
the family for like going intothis whole capitalist world and
I think it starts.
I think business is the bestpersonal growth you'll ever get,
because what it does is it rubsyour ideas that you take to be
true up against reality and thegood ones help you and the bad

(28:40):
ones hurt you.
And so you know, you go intobusiness thinking yeah, you know
, if and I never did, I was, Iwas always very idealistic of
thinking like kids, sorry that'sall right.

No, worry about it um that got the dog
barking as well.
This is my home, by the way,too luckily.
Luckily they're out uh, uh withmy wife, so but yeah, no
worries, we have noise.
I can uh do a background noisecancellation, so that's not an
issue at all okay, I'll try.

I'll try my best .
Hopefully it's just yeah it canget so crazy that I might need
to stop, but I'll keep going fornow that's okay.
So, um, uh, yeah, the questionabout business.
Um, I knew nothing aboutbusiness but I we read some
autobiographies, we bought somebusiness books.
Uh, we got some training.
Most of it was nonsense.
You know, we even had a at onepoint.

(29:38):
We had a you know this nba guywho'd come and help us and he,
he gave me some very clearadvice that training was a bad
opportunity and online was nevergoing to work.
So so you know, you you've gotto figure out.
If you're an entrepreneur, yougot to make your own decisions
and I started yeah, I startedthe online stuff in 2016, um,

(29:59):
and I was getting advice fromeveryone it's a bad idea and
that.
So I don't think many peoplehave an entrepreneurial mind.
Um, by, by definition, mostpeople, it's a minority thing so
what made you?

what made you follow through if all these
experts that you thought knowmore about business than you do
say it doesn't work?
And how did you make it happen,despite?

it well, one thing I've learned about myself
and it's not always a good thing, um, it sometimes hurts a bit
is that I don't really makedecisions based on what, what
the the prevailing consensus ison stuff.

But isn't that the basis of entrepreneurship?
Is that?
Isn't that the definition ofentrepreneurship?
To think different and toidentify a need or a problem and
come up with a solution, whichis exactly what you're doing.

Yeah, I think it is.
It's very good forentrepreneurship.
It's not very good for, um, ifyou want to fit in with the
crowd, um and obviously there'salways part of you that kind of
especially when you're youngeryou want to be approved of by
your colleagues, and I mean Isometimes laugh with miranda,
how naive we were, that we werelike, oh, we'll just put our
best foot forward and try ourbest, and everyone will be
really happy when they see ustrying our best and they'll.

(31:11):
And it wasn't like that at all.
Like so.
So, realizing that you're,you're going to get a a
percentage of people who make upstories about you and a
percentage of people who resentyou and and the rest who are
grateful.
Um, it's quite useful to justaccept it that way.
Um, and until you establishit's basically only at a point
where you overtake people thatyou get friction.

(31:31):
I don't know, I'm sure you'veexperienced something like this,
but there's a thing.

it speaks to your confidence, because the
people that care too much aboutwhat others think of them, or
the people that seek otherpeople's approval, that just
comes from a point of insecurity, and that insecurity is built
in us since childhood.
And I think the fact that youguys pulled through speaks not
just about your passion of whatyou have within the field, but

(32:00):
also the confidence you had inyourself and saying you know
what.
This is something I'mpassionate about.
I could care less what othersthink.
I'm going to do it anyways andanytime.
I have a guest on my podcast,and the reason why I'm doing
this podcast because I thinkthere's so much to be learned
from the stories of someone likepeople like yourselves and

(32:21):
others is that the story isalways the same First they laugh
at you, then they hate you,then they pay attention to you,
then they love you, then theypay attention to you, then they
love you, and then they want tobe associated with you, and, and
so that's the story of allsuccessful people, and I love
steve jobs quote that says thinkdifferent.

(32:41):
And that's really the secretsauce to any successful person
entrepreneur or whatever youwill and I think it all goes
back to you know, beating yourinsecurities and just doing what
you believe in your heart isthe right thing to do, and no
one has ever gone broke tryingto help other people.

(33:01):
And that's exactly what you'redoing, and that, and one of the
reasons why I so admire andrespect you, is that the time,
effort and energy you take intoeducating this um profession
that that has no formal trainingthere is, it's not taught at a
university, um, it's usuallylike some weekend course

(33:24):
sponsored by a company, and nowthese people are going there and
injecting stuff in human bodieswith lack of understanding of
anatomy and physiology and thecomplications associated with it
, almost like being oblivious toit, saying ah, it's rare, or
kind of justifying it with it'sall baloney, that never happens

(33:47):
until it happens, happens untilit happens.
And I've seen my fair share ofcomplications, which a couple of
times I actually excused myself.
I literally went into my officeand I had to cry because I
couldn't deal with the fact thatthis person, this beautiful
person that just wanted toenhance their look a little bit,

(34:08):
now is debilitated for the restof her life and I couldn't deal
with it.
And that's when I realized itcould happen to me.
I could be responsible forsomething like that, and I
learned it in the first um fiveyears of my practice, where it
scared the living daylights outof me, because until you see
something like that, it's kindof like the fine print in a

(34:30):
textbook that you really almostforget about.
Your brain wants to forgetabout it because it has to
justify why you should do whatyou're doing, because you're
looking at other things thatcome with it.
So it is hard.
At the end of the day, we'reall humans and no one likes to
hurt another human, and I thinkwhat you're doing, in particular

(34:54):
the way you do it, is soadmirable.

And.

I think you guys are probably.
I mean, I'm on social media,I'm on the internet.
I can't think of a betterlearning factory or learning
source for clinicians trying todo injectables.
So I really commend you forthat and I really admire you.

Well, thank you, and I really resonate with what
you said about your emotionalreaction to patients, because it
dawned on me that that wiring,firstly, it's not uniform, like
not everyone feels that way.
In fact, I've seen veryprominent training schools
saying if you're going to inject, then you have to accept the
complications are part of theprocess, whereas my reaction is

(35:44):
I don't want to ever accept that.
I know that they arestatistically, but if you just
say, well, I'm going to acceptan average complication rate and
put up with patients, because Iwas the same as you, I I would.
if I saw a patient even like aresult they didn't like that was
affecting their confidence, Iwould feel I'd feel it like it
would go home with me at theweekend and I'd feel bad about

(36:05):
it, let alone the thought thatyou'd have someone who was young
and beautiful anyway, buthaving a small tweak that ends
up with them being blind likethat was such a tragedy in that
form.

It's unacceptable, that it's totally
unacceptable.

So then you exactly it's that rejection of
it.
I think it's really importantthat you, because when you start
from that point of view, youput a ton of effort into
multiple different stages to tryand reduce the risk.
And that's why I say theanxious clinicians should be the
ones doing the non-surgicalrhinoplasty, not the ones who
think it's oh, you know, it'spar for the course.

(36:39):
If you get a few blind patientsevery now and then, you know
it's definitely the ones who arescared who then need to use
that fear to inject more safely.
But you know, I've had thecriticism from people.
I had an MCAS.
Some random doctor came up tome and said you're just scaring
everyone and all I could thinkto say was I was one of those
scared doctors.
But I'm not anymore because Ilearned, and that's what I'm

(37:02):
trying to do is just teachpeople to not be scared by
giving the right information,not by saying don't worry about
it, it happens or falsereassurance, of course, and so I
think we owe it to our patients.

Remember, we're not saving lives, we're
just trying to change lives, butwe don't want to kill someone
or make someone blind in theprocess.
I can't think of anyone whowould be able to live with that.
I certainly don't want toexperience it.
But let's talk about, let'sshift gears here a little bit

(37:39):
Now.
Is it true that you're movingon from aesthetics, and is it a
rumor?
I just saw an Instagram post onyour site that you're moving on
from aesthetics.
Can you tell us a little bitabout it?
You know, what do you?
What did you mean?
Were you serious about it or,uh, was it like a code for
something else?

so that we we tried to choose a word that was
catchy, but not.
Not like I'm giving upaesthetics but I'm moving good.
I should say moving beyond ormoving up it was supposed to be.
I'm broadening out from it um,because the way that I've been
trying to teach people to doaesthetics, it is linked to
longevity in a way that mostpeople don't realize, which is

(38:20):
which, which we've alreadytouched on, but essentially, um,
human relationships areabsolutely key to longevity.
It's a ridiculous difference insomething like 50 reduction
depending on the size of yoursocial network, how socially
connected you are and thequality of your relationships is
really key, and that's whatmedical aesthetics is actually
for is to help people buildrelationships.

(38:41):
So I still think it's part ofit and if you follow I'm sure
you follow, like Brian Johnsonand the blueprint stuff and this
amazing demonstration of whatis possible.
He's having medical aesthetictreatments too, and I think it's
going to be part of it.
But what I think is happening isthe lens is shifting, like

(39:02):
we're no longer looking like.
I don't, like I don't want tobe called a cosmetic doctor
because it's not.
That implies it's just on thesurface what I do and that
doesn't fit with how I see itand that's a paradigm that I
have, which not everyone agreeswith.
But the paradigm shift to seeaesthetics as part of human
health and therefore as part oflongevity, is what I'm basically

(39:24):
making the case for is weshould all be.
All clinicians really should bethinking about what they do in
the context of live long andprosper, as Spock says.
It's a great quote, but that'swhat we're trying to help people
do is to live long and prosper,and that's the lens with which
I now see the rest of my careeris I want to help human beings

(39:45):
live long and prosper.
I don't want to be doingcosmetic work and I gave up
cosmetic work, you know, eight,nine years ago anyway.

So are you just simply changing your
perspective on what you're doing, or are you going to add or do
anything different in whatyou're doing, what you have been
doing?

Yeah, I'm going to.
I think it's going to.
I mean a lot of it.
That video was very much astatement of intent.
It's not a.
I don't actually have a 10 yeargame plan of all the things yet,
but I'm now because I triggered.
I'm a big believer intriggering a change because I've
been thinking about this stufffor longer than I've been
talking about it many yearslonger.
But now it's out there, noteven on this podcast.

(40:26):
Now I'm having to think aboutit, hear, hear, and so I can
feel it dragging me now and I'vealways been a big believer in
change is hard.
But if you stake something inthe ground and say you're going
to do it, there's an elementthat takes on a life of its own,
so similar with my clinic.
I've told them I want to startintroducing longevity stuff and

(40:49):
they're like well, what?
And I'm like well, let'sactually hash that out.
I've got a researcher now who'slike writing down everything.
She can find all theinterventions we're seeing,
which ones are very aligned withaesthetics.
You know, polynucleotides is anexample.
It kind of fits on this morescientific side of changing the

(41:11):
way that cells behave.
But there's all sorts of thingsthat I think will branch out
from it, and I don't think myclinic will.
Well, it's possible.
Who knows what you can do in 20years?
But I'm not seeing that youhave to have one expert who does
everything.
I think it's all going to bemuch more network specialty and
we'll have you know.
We're not going to have an MRIscanner in the clinic.
We're going to have people whodo that who we network with.

(41:35):
So it's building that network isa big part of it and trying to
find experts.
One of the problems I realizewe're going to face is quality
information, because there's somuch nonsense and bro science
that it's going to be hard tosift through that.
So I'm kind of thinking aboutways of getting the best people
to want to contribute to onesource of information.

(41:55):
I don't have the answer yet.
I'm thinking around.

Well, I think you're on the right path.
You know, I certainly resonatewith the fact that we need to
treat our patientscomprehensively.
So it's not just about cosmesis, it's not about just one thing.
I think it's aboutcomprehensively from inside out.
That's always been myphilosophy and I think there's

(42:20):
so much science now, especiallyin the last decade alone, that
is so rapidly evolving.
And one of the scientists thatis really at the forefront of
all this longevity treatment isDr David Sinclair out of Harvard
, and you know he started thisresearch.

(42:41):
I knew of him when I was atHarvard in 99.
He had joined the geneticsdepartment and I was involved
with the genetics departmentbecause I was doing molecular
genetic and molecular biologyresearch in head and neck cancer
, and he is a geneticist thathas really been on the forefront

(43:01):
of longevity research anddiscovery, where he started it,
and that science goes only backto the 90s.
It's not not that I mean it isnow 30 years old.
You could say that's oldscience.
But back then they've been justable to turn the clock back on

(43:23):
yeast, which gets transferred toNAD in your body, which is a
coenzyme basically that'sresponsible, as you know, for
all kind of cell function.
They literally can turn atwo-and-a-half-year-old mouse
into a six-month-old mouse andhuman age is going to be about

(43:51):
10 years.
Rejuvenation within a week.
I mean so like the Wrightbrothers are already flying.
We don't have commercialairplanes yet, but the cat's out
of the bag already.
I mean, the science is thereand it's fascinating if you
think of it, because if youthink of what we're trying to do
, which is anti-aging withexternal stuff, you can actually

(44:14):
anti-age internally.
But if you think about whatcauses the cell to age is
essentially damage to your DNA.
I'm turning 51 in two weeks andI could tell I feel much better
than I was.
I felt in my 30s.
Granted, in my 30s I was aresidence I don't know how many,

(44:37):
maybe sleeping two or threehours a day max.
I'm sure that has something todo with it.
But my lifestyle?
I changed my lifestyle when Iturned 40, because I realized
the changes in my body.
I realized like things arechanging and I didn't want to
wait until I get ill.
I didn't want to wait until Iget dementia, Alzheimer's,

(44:58):
Parkinson's, but that was moresubconscious.
Now I'm consciously looking forthese things, researching, and
I'm giving recommendations to mypatients based on the science
that's out there Simplelifestyle changes, from diet,
activity, and now I even haveintegrated weight loss in my

(45:19):
practice, because I think,especially here in America, it
is the greatest pandemic that wehave of most chronic diseases.
And if you look at how media orsome big pharmaceutical

(45:39):
companies are putting propagandaout there against that, it's
kind of interesting, Like youask yourself, why would they do
that, Aren't they?
Don't they care about thehealth, well-being of people?
Isn't that why they make drugsand medicine?

(46:00):
So we can, they can, make ushealthy.
Well, wait a second, not sofast.
You know.
I think they have a differentthey.
I don't want to raise aconspiracy, but I think it's
worth thinking about.
You have to really think moresmartly about what you should be
doing, what you can do keepingyourself healthy, and it's not

(46:20):
very fancy, it's just manageyour weight, eat healthy,
exercise, build connections withother human beings, and part of
it is like you alluded to whenyou look better, you feel better
.
When you feel better, yousocialize more.
That science is out there.
That's not.
You know that's not like myopinion or your opinion.

(46:41):
I think all of those contributeto the anti-aging aspect of what
we do, and I have people onsocial media all the time DMing
me.
They send me a picture and thenliterally the question is hey,
what can I do against my aging?
What do you recommend?
And I've taken screenshots ofmy conversations because people

(47:02):
don't believe me.
I tell them look, the firstthing you need sleep, reduce
your stress, hydrate, eat well.
You don't have to be anutritionist, Just Google it,
the information is out there.
Then we can talk hydrate, eatwell.
You don't have to be anutritionist, just Google it,
the information is out there.
Then we can talk.
Because if you don't do thosethings right, nothing I do will
actually last.
So then what's the point?
And I'm not here, out there toget your money.

(47:23):
I want you truly to look thebest version of yourself, not
just for six months.
I want you to look better in 10years than you look today, and
it's possible.
Are you interested?
And so I really question mypatients' intentions and just
make them aware that, look,there is more than you think
that you can do on your ownwithout my help.

(47:45):
And the information is outthere.
You just go find it.
It's on the internet, Forexample.
Dr Sinclair has actually apodcast, so it's available to
anyone.
But yet people watch Netflix astupid show for the fifth time,
and wonder and eat potato chipsand wonder why they look old,

(48:06):
and so it all goes back to theinability of your body repairing
your DNA.
And we have the science thatyou can actually reverse that.
Well, you know.
So I think we, as aestheticphysicians, we have that
responsibility to educateourselves first so that we can

(48:28):
be the best doctors to ourpatients, Because ultimately we
do that for the well bestdoctors to our patients, because
ultimately we do that for thewell-being of our patients,
nothing more and nothing less.

Well, you touched on something that I
think is one of the biggestbarriers, which is the
psychological approach, or thephilosophical approach to the
interventions, and I even havethis in my own household, which
is that, for example, with food,because I've been on this
journey for much longer, I nolonger associate certain foods

(49:00):
with treating myself.
I feel like it's punishingmyself if I eat a massive lump
of cake.

Now.

I don't know when that shift happened, but it
happened and I look at it andit doesn't mean the same thing
to me, but it never used to bethat way.
It used to be something else.
So, true, but Miranda's alittle bit behind on this
journey and she's like well, Iwant to eat the cake, and so we
have this.
You know, we've got kids and weobviously both feed them
differently, and it's just mademe interested to realize that

(49:29):
many people associate the stuffthat they value in life with the
stuff that's doing them harm.
So life is worth living becauseI get to eat potato chips in
front of Netflix, and that's ahard problem to solve.
But you have to go through thisjourney of experiencing
something and for me, obviouslyI had the fear of Parkinson's,

(49:51):
but also I have lots of stress,especially when the business was
first getting off and theexercise would help me feel
better during the day.
I'd have better ideas.
You know, I started fasting.
I was like, wow, I'm so muchbetter on the podcast when I
haven't had a, you know, a bigfat meal full of carbs.
And then you're like, well,this is actually making my life
better.
Now I'm not actually doing itfor the future now.
It's actually helping me rightnow and that's the thing I would

(50:14):
.
I think is a problem we need tosolve for people.
Is that your life is moremeaningful and more enjoyable
now, when you make, when youlive healthily, and it's not.
I think a lot of people see itas deprivation.
If you read the responses toBrian Johnson in particular, a
lot of people are negative, likehe's punishing himself and he's
really disciplined but that'speople's opinions.

Yeah, yeah, that's people's opinions.
Yeah, of course I mean I, Iwould not, I would never be able
to do what he's doing.
I mean he's really out therebut I admire him for that
because he has the disciplineand he's probably going to live
longer than I will.
But you know it's not foreveryone.
But that doesn't mean youshould make fun of it.

(50:57):
But that's human nature, right?
Whenever something, we feelsomething, is not within our
reach, we poo-poo it, we makefun of it so we can cope with it
, and I mean that's normal humanbehavior.
It's kind of funny, especiallyfunny when physicians do that,
when physicians frown upon it,physicians that have not spent a
minute or a second to educatethemselves about it, that really

(51:22):
take what they learned inmedical school like 20 years ago
as the Bible and just treat thepatients for chronic disease.
Basically, wait until you getill, wait until you get sick,
wait until you have cancer, andthen treat it.
And when you ask, can I have afull body scan, a full body MRI,

(51:42):
they're like well, do you haveany family history of something?
It goes back to the 20, 30, 50,100-year-old type of questions
that physicians usually askbefore they order the test,
which is predicated on theapproval of insurance companies
for those tests.
So it's kind of like we'retreating humans based on what

(52:05):
insurance companies tell us andit even handcuffs or prohibits
any clinician to think outsideof the box.
Say, well, wait a second.
So if I get an MRI like when Idon't have I'm 51.
If I get an MRI now, a fullbody MRI, now I have a baseline
I can compare it to if I getanother one in two years or five

(52:28):
years and I can see whathappened in my body, what shifts
that occur, and I canproactively treat and prevent
and change my lifestyle orbecome aware of stuff, rather
than wait until I have a tennisball-sized tumor that all of a
sudden I see wait a second.
For some reason I'm gettingthese headaches and I get these
blurry visions once in a while.

(52:49):
And then get an MRI scan a yearafter I was diagnosed with these
things that didn't resolve withTylenol or conservative
measures, and then, well, maybewe should take an MRI.
Well, guess what?
A family member.
That's what happened to them inCanada and when they got their
MRI.
This is a true story that Ijust told you.

(53:11):
That's what happened to them inCanada and when they got their
MRI this is a true story that Ijust told you he had a tumor the
size of a tennis ball in hisbrain right behind his optical
chiasm.
Six months later he passed andI told him.
When he told me about hischronic headaches, I'm like just
get a brain MRI.
And he said no.
My doctor said there's notenough evidence, insurance won't
approve it.
I'm like just go fucking payfor it it's 600 bucks.

(53:33):
How much money did you spend ondumb stuff that you don't even
need last year?
Go pay.
He's like no, that's why I haveinsurance, you know.
Blah, blah, blah.
So this entitlement, the senseof entitlement just because you
have insurance, you're forced touse it and you don't want to
spend your own private moneythat's what really killed him,

(53:55):
and I think, as um, as a society, we should really take our
health more seriously.
Um and um, just like we spendmoney on vacations, on stuff we
don't need um on you know, Idon't know, you know what?
I know?

everybody has their own weaknesses, but I
think, if we budget it right, um, we could definitely live
longer and look better this is,but this is the key shift I
think that people need to gothrough is realizing that that
that's the most valuable thingyou could do with your money.
It's not like you should trynot to spend while you're

(54:35):
spending money on all sorts ofother things, but it's not funny
take it, take something to makeyou aware of it.
But, um, you know, I have thesame issue, even worse, in the
uk, because it's mostly free butit's it's also obviously
controlled with what you canhave.
I have a patient who's probablyin her late 20s now, who's
diabetic since she was 10.
And they wouldn't give her acontinuous glucose monitor and

(54:59):
an insulin pump when she wasterrible at managing her
diabetes.
And she's now got all of thecomplications.
She's registered partiallysighted, gastroparesis, kidney
failure, waiting for a kidneytransplant, and I'm like how,
how, who is making thesedecisions?
That you can't spend a fewhundred bucks a month on someone
when they're young and thenavoid all this stuff.

(55:20):
And she's got two kids now, alsowith type one diabetes.
You know and you're thinking atleast they will, it'll be
better now, but it we alwaysseem to be so far behind.
The proactive stuff, and Ithink this is the only thing
that might eventually fliphealthcares around is when they
actually get the measurementsback of how much it's worth to
the economy to have healthypeople, because it's enormous,

(55:44):
like it's easily going to payfor itself, but it does take a
shift.
Right now it's firefighting,isn't it?

Well, I think it has to do with how the system
works.
Who is making the money, um, atthe end of the day, treating
chronic disease?
Uh, pharmaceuticals andinsurance companies.
Those are the billion dollarindustries that are guiding the
whole narrative.
And I think it's funny when you,in the beginning of our podcast
, you mentioned that the reasonwhy you went away from

(56:15):
traditional medicine and being aphysician treating patients to
aesthetic medicine is you felthelpless, like you can't do the
things that you wanted to do andthe way you want to do it, and
you're kind of like handcuffedby the NHS and traditional
insurance type of medicine.
And it's against what aphysician wants to do, which is

(56:36):
making people feel better.
And it's kind of funny howthere is this antagonizing force
against the very thing we'retrying to do, and that is
unfortunately, a shame.
And I think a lot of the younggeneration are being deterred
from entering the field ofmedicine because you know
they're smart.
I mean, the information is outthere, it's all online and

(56:59):
there's not a person thatdoesn't have a family member
that has been suffering as aresult of this system.
So what are you doing foryourself?
You know what are you doing foryourself as far as anti-aging,
healthy lifestyle, walk usthrough your routine.
You know I want to learn fromyou um.

So I by no means consider myself an expert at
this, by the way, I'm, I'm I'm.

No one is an expert, no one.

I, I call us enthusiasts, but not experts
yeah, but I I'm kind ofembracing the being a student
idea, um, and you'll see me onlike on social media, hopefully
owning that position because Ithink this is so early that we
need to look at it that way.
But the basic things areactually pretty straightforward,
like you've already alluded to.
So, um, I try and run.

(57:47):
Uh, it's about 37 minutes nowevery day.
Um, so that's about sevenkilometers.
Um, I don't do that every day.
So that's about sevenkilometers.
I don't do that every daybecause there's always, you know
, there's challenges, time andstuff.
But I'll very rarely do aproduction day without running
because my brain works so muchbetter Waits three times a week,
not quite at the moment becauseI turn my garage into a gym,
but only half there.

(58:10):
I have started BrianJohnson'sson's blueprint stuff.
I've only just started takingum ashwagandha, which I hadn't
looked into much, but it hasit's.
I think it's what's made thebiggest difference to my
recovery.
So I'm on it to myself with awhoop and, uh, the recovery
element, I've always had arelatively low um heart rate
variability.
You know I'm doing exercise andsleep, but I'd wake up, feel

(58:33):
tired, 50 recovery, and thatseems to have made a big
difference in the last week andyou know, end of one, but it's
supposed to help the recoveryand I've experienced that as
helping.
Uh, I take creatine fivemilligrams a day.
Um, I do fish oils, not theomega-3 supplement, one of the
validated ones, um, and I takean interesting supplement which

(58:58):
is a replacement.
It's an NAD booster but it hasniacinamide in it.
But it also includes I forgotthe term, the name for it, but
anyway it's in parsley and itdecreases activity of CD38,
which uses up most of your NAD.
It'll come to me in a moment.
It's got some other interestingthings in it, but it's a much

(59:20):
more strategic supplement calledNeuchido.
It comes from the UK.
There's a doctor, a clinician,she's a scientist actually
you'll see on my page coming upthe next few months who I've got
to know quite well.
So it's her company who makesit and she told me some
interesting stuff around howthese supplements come to the
market and it just affected mequite a lot thinking about the

(59:45):
commercial drivers which we havein aesthetics as well and how
these things end up.
Whoever kind of has the mostmoney has the most influence.
But I just liked her storybecause she's really a small
company.
She's mission driven, she'svery passionate about the
science.
She's passion, mission driven,she's very passionate about the
science.
Everything's like back to thescience, uh.
So that's the supplement that Itake in the morning as well.
As soon as I started taking it,I, um, I, you feel it.

(01:00:08):
You feel better.
You also feel if you take it atnight because you can't sleep.
So tells you it's working.
Um, nad, the nad levels.
I did take nmn for a while butI stopped it on the basis that
I'm fairly convinced, althoughI've never measured my nad
levels.
I'd like to do that, um, butit's.
They're interchangeable atleast, if not better to take the

(01:00:29):
other one is there anythingelse interesting?

Dr. Daria Hamrah (01:00:31):
yeah, let me know what that is.
I'm curious as to what that isbecause really, you know,
tackling it at source, which isantagonizing the reduction of
NAD is really key, as it is thekey coenzyme in a lot of the
cellular events that occur.

Dr. Tim Pearce (01:00:50):
It's in apple skin and parsley.
You will find it quite easily.
I don't think it's a secret,but I can't remember off the top
of my head.

It's not resveratrol, right, it's not
resveratrol.
No, it's not resveratrolBecause that is more in like
grapes, berries, nuts and redwine, which is something I take
actually.

It will probably pop into my head later on.

I'm sorry, I've forgotten it.

But the resveratrol thing, I don't know
if you've been following it, butyou know that the company that
bought it then couldn't makeanything out of it and it didn't
work and they said there wassome sort of assay that had
given them most of their results.
I'm not an expert on this, butI was a bit disappointed, really

(01:01:44):
, to hear that it wasn't aseffective as once thought.
But these things this is one ofthe biggest issues in this
whole sector is it is socomplicated compared with you
know stuff you can see and touch, that you do in aesthetics,
that you know either works or itdoesn't to a degree.
But it's not like that in thisworld.

It's uh, it's going to take a lot of science
and a lot of open collaborationa hundred percent, and that's
why I'm a believer of unless itharms me, it doesn't take much
to take it.
Why not?
And I mean, obviously you wantto use your food as a source of
all these things, if you can,and I think as part of part of a

(01:02:17):
Mediterranean diet, and eatinga lot of berries and nuts and
leaf vegetables, I mean, thoseare really.
I mean, that's what I basicallyhave for lunch, instead of a
pizza or some carbs.
That suck my energy for therest of the day and makes me
feel much better.
And I could tell you, though,when I started taking NMN, a lot

(01:02:38):
of my ailments that I have,like shoulder pain, back pain,
muscle pain and I'm very activeathletically those have really
improved significantly.
I don't know whether it was acoincidence of time, just my
body just had time to recoverand heal, or that's what it was.
Obviously it's not a study,it's just an observation, but I

(01:03:01):
usually go by.
What if my body feels good, uh,doing something, I just do that
, and I'm very in tuned and Ilisten to my body, and I think
we should do more of that.
Um and then take all thatinformation that's out there, as
you you mentioned, diluted towith a grain of salt, but still
keep our eyes and ears open onthese topics.

The compound I was thinking of is called
apigenin Apigenin, apigenin soit's in dried parsley and I
think in apple skin as well.
So it depresses CD38, which, asyou get older, churns through.
I think it's something like 100molecules.
It basically uses most of yourNAD up as you get older and it's

(01:03:49):
related to basicallydeteriorating cell function and
it's this is all covered onNicholas' podcast.
It's a dysfunction to do withaging, but I don't know the
details enough.
But it seems like a reallysimple and clever way of.
And what I also like aboutthese ingredients, similar to
what you said, is I like thingswhere I think this really seems

(01:04:11):
like limited downside andpotential upside.
It's not super complicated, I'mnot having a drip every week.
You know it's something that youcould get from diet in a higher
concentration.
It feels nice and safe, and whynot?

exactly, yeah.
So for those of you who arelistening, abagenin is a
flavonoid that is abundantlypresent in common fruits,
vegetables, nuts, onions,oranges and tea.
It has various beneficialhealth effects, such as
antioxidant, anti-inflammatoryand chemo prevention.
So this is basically.

(01:04:47):
All of these things help, allyou know, helps the longevity
and influence the epigenetics ofour body to just function much
better.
And I think it all goes back toa balanced diet.
All this conversation keepsgoing on a balanced diet.
I mean people take now collagenpills, collagen supplements.

(01:05:10):
That's controversial toobecause, truthfully, it's all
broken down in your gut anywaysinto amino acids, so into the
building blocks.
And you can get the samebuilding blocks from your diet
and you know, taking thesecollagen pills and I have
patients that get these stomachcramps and all these side
effects.
I'm like, well, why don't youjust adjust your diet?

(01:05:32):
Why do you make your life socomplicated?
And they're not cheap either.
You know all these supplementsare not cheap.
So if you can get it from yourdiet, do that first.
That's why it's called asupplement, meaning if you can't
get it from your diet or ifyou're not getting it from your
diet.
But I think supplementsshouldn't be a replacement, um,
there just should becomplementary, yeah, and I think

(01:05:53):
I think one of the hardestthings for patients is that
because it's so complicated,they don't.

They have we, and even for me it's the scale
that you don't understand.
Like you'd say, um, you know,to take omega-3 oils, for
example, you're supposed to getthem from fish, but fish also
has mercury in them.
And then they they think, well,what am I supposed to do?
Like it's got mercury in it andit's got the thing that's good
for me and you need a realexpert.
Like if you listen to ronda pattalk about this, it's really

(01:06:17):
interesting because she cites astudy where the intelligence of
children was higher according totheir mercury levels because
the fish oils were so powerful.
And there are a few things likethat similar with folate and
pesticides.
So pesticides cause DNA damage,but folate is so good at

(01:06:40):
defending your, your dna, thatyou actually have lower, lower
damage to your, to your dna whenyou've eaten enough folate,
even if there are pesticidesthat damage your dna on it.
So it that's one of the hardestelements to get right is like,
how do you because it?
Otherwise people get confusedand they do nothing.
Um, and so you?
We need to sift through theinformation and give those kind

(01:07:01):
of solid bits of advice, sayingyes, not dismissing it.
Yes, there are some potentialrisks, but they're outweighed
clearly.
So do those things you know andthings like sleep and diet,
exercise or at leaststraightforward, although there
was some risks with any of thesethings but it's basically we
need to get this list top 100things you can do.
That's really clear, and thenlet the patients really go for

(01:07:24):
it.

Yeah, I mean on the other side.
I have to tell you, tim, it'seasy for us to say these things.
You know, if you look at 90% ofthe population, they're really
struggling.
90% of the population they'rein survival mode.
They don't have enough time.
90% of the population are insurvival mode.
They don't have enough time,they don't have enough money,
they don't have the mindset toeven research these things.

(01:07:47):
They're struggling to.
They're living paycheck bypaycheck.
They're struggling with raisingtheir kids.
They're struggling with makingmeans to an end.
They're struggling withmanaging their lives and I'm
always careful when I try to.
I feel like it's.
I know it's our obligation totalk about these things, but in

(01:08:09):
some way it is unfair to expect90% of the population truly
struggling to have even amindset for all these things.
I mean, they just eat on therun whenever they can.
Some of them don't even havethe means to get proper food and
quality food.
I think, before these things canreach and affect the majority

(01:08:33):
of the population, the wholesystem of the world has to
change, and I don't know if wewill see it in our lifetime, but
I think all we can do is todisseminate information and then
maybe, if someone's pain pointreaches a level that they're
like you know what?
I don't want to live like thisanymore, that they do things

(01:08:56):
like they never thought theywould be doing, meaning they
would downscale, not live abovetheir means and spend more time
with family, live healthier.
And I think more people thanthink or believe could do that
starting today, but for somereason they choose not to.

(01:09:17):
Because I think society hasprogrammed us to keeping up with
the Joneses that we're makingit too hard for ourselves
including me and you.
So I wouldn't exclude at leastmyself.
I can speak for myself.
I have to constantly remindmyself that what's important in

(01:09:38):
life, what's really importantfor me, what's important for my
patients, what makes me happy,what makes me do the things,
that, when I'm in my deathbed,think that I have no regrets,
and I live every day of my lifeby that.
Whenever I make a decision, Ithink of the moment.

(01:09:58):
I'm in my deathbed thinkingwould I be proud of myself?
Would I have any regrets, yesor no?
If yes, I'm not going to do it,and that's an awareness that
came to me about seven, eightyears ago and it just can't
leave me anymore.
I just can't get rid of that.
It's almost this consciousnesssitting on my shoulder,
constantly watching over me, andI feel, uh, blessed to have

(01:10:20):
that.
And I am talking to you.
I feel, uh, I, I, I totallyfeel that, um, uh, you, you, you
feel the same way.
You do things because youbelieve in them.
You know authenticity, um,being genuine and you and really
caring about the human beingthat crosses paths with you.

(01:10:41):
So very grateful for you beingon the show, tim.
A couple of rapid fire questionsUnited or City?

United.
I used to live literally astone's throw from the stadium,
so very close, used to be closeto me stupid question soccer or
football?
Well, I grew up half my lifeplaying soccer and then the
other half football, because Igrew up in South Africa.
So I don't mind.

Oh, really did you okay?
And they're soccer players.
What do you think of the termsoccer in South Africa?
So I don't mind.

Oh, really Did you?
Okay, and they're soccerplayers though?

What do you think of the term soccer?

I'm completely used to it.
I know it's weird If you'reBritish through and through and
you think it's weird, but for me, I grew up playing soccer and
then played football from 14onwards.

Great, If you could give your 20-year-old self
one piece of advice.
What would that be?

I hesitate because I am a believer that
things happen.
You have to go through theexperiences.
But it might have been becauseI was interested in longevity
long before anything else.
I just didn't know howimportant it was.
The first book I bought aftermedical school was preventative
nutrition book, um, but I didn'tknow what it was going to turn

(01:12:04):
into.
So I might it might besomething on the lines of stay
at that, um, but at the sametime, maybe my purpose is to is
to use what I've currently builtto bring it to more people
later on.
So, um, uh, I wouldn'tnecessarily give too much advice
.
Let me think of one good thingthat would be universal.
I think it's related to whatyou were saying about patients

(01:12:29):
and how they struggle, and alsoI think that the battle that
many people are going through itis to stay hopeful.
Don't be cynical.
I think I had periods of mylife where I was a bit more
cynical and hopeless and it justslowed me down enormously, and
so I I resonate what with whatyou were saying.
Patients go through as well, orthe public, everyone, um,

(01:12:51):
because I think, but but that'sthe key if you can stay
optimistic and hopeful about thefuture and try and build the
future um that you want ratherthan just wait for things to
happen.
That that makes everythingbetter for everyone I think we
owe it to ourselves.

I mean, what else would you be rather doing?
I think we owe it to ourselves.

You know a lot of a lot of people that I think
they're like.
I've had many people close tome like who lack hope for the
future, very pessimistic aboutthe environment and politics and
all that stuff, and it breaksmy heart because it stops you
doing everything else when youdon't think there's any greater
purpose.
So that's the thing I'm alwaysrallying against is just don't

(01:13:35):
get cynical about the future.

What's your definition of capitalism?
The way you would like todefine it?

I prefer the term free market economies
because I really think there'ssomething beautiful about two
people, one with some resourcesand one with a skill, and they
weigh it up freely and make afree exchange.
That's the essence ofcapitalism, um, now, obviously
there are elements where, ifthings aren't priced incorrectly
like if you don't price in theprice of oxygen and you just see

(01:14:08):
the price of timber you chopdown the tree and you and that's
a problem with capitalism, um,but if things are priced
correctly, then exploitation.

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of people
misunderstand capitalism withexploitation, but if things are
priced correctly, then freemarkets I'll call that
exploitation.
Yeah, I mean, I think a lot ofpeople misunderstand capitalism
with exploitation.

Yeah, but I do get it that there are things
that you need governments toprice in for because capitalism
can't do it.
So I'm not an outright, youknow, just complete libertarian,
although I definitely err onthat side of the spectrum.
But I think the value exchangeis key.
I think if you make somethingvaluable and you give it to
someone who doesn't want themoney they want the valuable

(01:14:46):
thing that sounds like a reallygood exchange and that's what we
should be trying to do and andnot see it as a zero sum game.
I think if you, if you, if youthink the person who got the
money has got something and theperson who got the thing has
nothing, then it looks like asinister thing.
But that's not how any.
I don't know where that ideacomes from, because personally I
never give away money fornothing.

(01:15:07):
I give it because I want thething more than the money, and
that's how most people operate.
That's the free market, which Ithink is an unbalanced good.
There are imperfections, but itan unbalanced good.
There are imperfections, butit's unbalanced good.
Love that.

Question that is on everybody's mind, that I
personally always get being afamily man and you seem to me
like a family man.
I know you have kids and dogsand you have a very busy
professional life.
How do you find work-lifebalance and what is the meaning
of work-life balance to you?

So I mean that's a good question.
I made decisions to sacrificeopportunities to put my family
first, particularly travelingwith kids and stuff.
I knew when they were little Idid not want to be.
What was happening was I was.
I could see this path where I'dbe at every conference and and
I just didn't want to, I justdecided I'm not doing that, in
fact, so starkly that I almostgo to none of them.

(01:16:05):
You know I do online stuff andoccasionally go to them and find
out.
Everyone knows me, but I Idon't know, everyone, but it's.
But that was the right decisionfor me at the time.
Because I um, but it's, uh, butthat was the right decision for
me at the time.
Um, because I value theconnection with my kids more
than anything else.
It is the most important thingto me, um, and then I try and
make the rest of my work fit inwith that.

(01:16:26):
Like I want them to see, we dobring them to certain things so
that they get the experience.
Um.
So a lot of people talk aboutwork-life integration.
I think I'm fairly integrated.
It's.
Everything points in the same,generally points in the same
direction.
I still have to battle with it,like everyone.
This last week I did like three12-hour days and it wasn't good

(01:16:47):
, um, uh.
So you know I have to makedecisions to try and rein it in,
and if I don't tuck the kids inat night, they complain.
They're like, where were youworking late?
You know so, um, but that theydon't realize how lucky they are
, because even a regular nhs gpwould be home a lot less than I
am, of course, um of course.

I mean, everything is relative.
I think everybody has to definethe like life work balance for
themselves, and I think a lot ofus put ourselves under too much
pressure and stress, um,judging ourselves for not being
there enough.
But, on the other side, if wedon't work hard, we can't be
successful.
If we're not successful, wecan't provide a lot of the

(01:17:27):
things for the family thatothers are not fortunate enough
and privileged enough to do.
And I think, at the end of theday, work-life balance means are
you happy, is your family happy?
Is your business successful?
If you check all those boxeswith a yes, then congratulations
, and I think that's how youhave to look at it, as opposed
to saying, well, you're notthere for a big football match

(01:17:52):
or a graduation and this andthat, and you know, I think at
the end of the day, it's not too.
We're judging ourselves toomuch and putting ourselves under
too much pressure, and that'swhat the struggle truly is.
Last question Sorry.

One thing I've learned that I really appreciate
and the more I go through thechaos of life and seeing things
go wrong in other people's livesis it is those relationships
are the key.
Like to my business.
Success is key.
That my, my wife is happy, youknow, obviously we work together
, but I can't go off and ignoreher for even 24 hours is a bad

(01:18:29):
idea.
Like we need to be united.
Um, we're I'm a, we're trying tosystematize love in our family.
So it's like you don't walkpast a member of the family, I
mean there's no, I don't shoutto people, do this, but I I do
this myself.
If I'm walking past, you get ahug.
You know it's, and I find that,um, it's like a unifying part
of the day.
That means every other problemthat you hit is built on that

(01:18:51):
bedrock of we're hitting theproblem together, you know, as
opposed to separate, because Irealized with miranda that most
of our rows were aboutseparation, like we felt
separate in the battle.
And as soon as we figured thatout, it was like, okay, well,
let's just do something everyday that makes us feel together
and then we can deal with theproblems.
And that's been really helpful.
But I think my whole businessis built on that idea as well,

(01:19:12):
because I know a lot ofclinicians who work together.
You can't neglect thatrelationship.
It has to be number onebusiness number two and
otherwise everything is underthreat.

Yeah, I mean, why are we doing what we're
doing?
That's the question we have toask ourselves to have a happy
life and provide for our family,for our next of kin.
So that is the whole purposeand I think it goes back to
being purpose-oriented Socialmedia.
The whole purpose, and I thinkbeing goes back to being
purpose-oriented, um, socialmedia.
Is it, uh?
Is it going to destroy oursociety or is it the best thing

(01:19:44):
that happened to our society?

I mean, it could destroy our society because of
I'm thinking more about ai andwhen you don't know what's real
or not, um, there's none of thatgoing on already.
Um, I think, on balance, likeany powerful thing, it's, it's a
, it's a mix.
I always think this with fireas well.
Like you know, when that wasbeing discovered, you could

(01:20:11):
easily make the argument it wasa bad thing, but we also built
everything out of it, and thenwe still have bad stuff that
comes with it.
So I think you need I think weneed to be cautious about um I,
there's, there's, there's twopulls, there's the
misinformation side of things,but then there's the
authoritarianism on top of it.
That's then creates adistortion about what, what's

(01:20:33):
real and what's not.
That I'm worried about.
You know I'm a big free speechadvocate.
I I'd rather see someone Idisagree with saying things than
have it suppressed and come outin an uglier form, usually in
form of violence, later on.
But it's very hard.
I'd say it's 51% good and Ithink it could be better if

(01:20:55):
everyone was more aware of whatit actually is, because I think
our brains are very confused bythe numbers.
And I went through this withsocial media, because when you
first start, you think everyonewill be happy with the stuff you
post.
But if 100,000 people see it,there's going to be a ratio of
people there, no matter what,are having such a bad day that
they're going to respondnegatively.
But your brain thinks you're amember of a tribe with 1000

(01:21:20):
people in it and if three peopleare awful to you then you're.
It's life and death.
You know, whereas actuallythat's not the case.
You're talking to millions overtime and of course and mostly
it doesn't matter, it's justnoise.
So if you can realize this,that most of the negativity on
social media is is, you know,people on the toilet having
stressful days.
They're not actually makingcerebral decisions about whether
you're a good person or not,they're just venting.

(01:21:41):
That makes it a bit easier, butit has huge issues.
I would be particularly worriedif I had teenage daughters, for
example.
I think it's particularly hardfor girls, but if you have a
good family and you support themand you educate them, it's
probably 51% good.

That was the perfect answer and I love your
fire analogy.
We can destroy stuff with it,we can build stuff.
And I think to your lastcomment is it goes all back to
proper parenting teaching thekids values giving, nurturing
them with self-confidence sothey don't get hurt by
insecurities or by the badpeople out there.

(01:22:20):
There's good and bad ineverything in life, and social
media is both good and it's bad.

A knife is good, bad.

Fire is good and bad, so I think it depends
on how we choose to look atthings, how we utilize them.
It's just a tool, it's atechnology like anything else.
Tv in the 50s was frowned upon.
The same way social media isfrowned upon now.
And I think, as human beings,we're going to evolve.
Technology is not going to careabout our opinion, it's just

(01:22:52):
going to evolve and we just haveto learn to deal with it.
And it goes all back toespecially when you have girls,
but also boys to properparenting.
I think we should really takeon that responsibility and teach
our children proper values andbe there for them so that

(01:23:13):
they're protected against allthe bad stuff out there.

I think the biggest self-defense you can
give your children is is thatthey feel like that they love
themselves and respectthemselves.
I always come back to that asbecause I'm now at the age you
know they're going to highschool and I have to just let
them out, he's gonna.
I know there are drugs at thehigh school.
He's gonna go to um and we talkabout it, but I always come back
to you know, does he, is heloved?

(01:23:39):
Does he love himself enoughthat he wouldn't mess?
Because that that was whatstopped me when I was at school.
I was like, well, why would Imess with my body?
Like for because some skid atschool wanted me to do it.
And it never.
It literally was never even anoption.
I just never went down thatroute because, and so I just I
just go back to that of like,make them love and respect
themselves, and they can.

(01:23:59):
They can look at that socialmedia post and not go seeking
validation on social media um,which if you don't get it's
crushing, if you think it's youronly source of it.
So you need to.
They just need to become realindividuals outside of social
media before they go on to it,and hopefully that will cover
most of the bases.

Yeah, perfect.
I mean, again, social media tome is just exposing the social
issues that exist out there at ascale now, whereas when we were
children it was still there butit wasn't exposed like it is at
scale.
It was always there, you know,and I think people get that
confused and use it andweaponize it and use it as an

(01:24:39):
excuse to justify why they'renot doing their job.
And I loved your answer andyou're 100% on point.
There's nothing more that weowe our children than raising
them with proper values, properself-esteem and self-confidence,

(01:25:00):
so that we can trust them whenthey go out there, that they're
protected and don't make stupiddecisions.
Just like me and you wereprotected, obviously, by our
parents.
I grew up in Germany and drugs Imean in Germany when you're 13,
14, you start smoking.
At least in the 80s, when Igrew up and drugs were available

(01:25:26):
, I mean you just had to hopacross the border to the
Netherlands.
You couldn't get them.
It was legal there.
But I never felt the needbecause, like you said, you know
, I didn't feel I need to, Ididn't feel it's going to, I
didn't have any feeling that Ihad to quiet or down or to
suppress and I just wanted toexperience things and I loved

(01:25:48):
life, even though it was veryhard growing up as an immigrant.
But you know it goes all.
So I give a lot of that creditto my parents and, uh, so I
tried to be similar parents formy children.
Tim, yeah, any questions that Ishould have asked you that I
didn't ask?

I don't think so .
We've covered quite a widerange of stuff um, yeah, yeah it
was fun uh and uh, yeah, usefuluh to me just to talk through
these issues.
Think about it again, so Iappreciate it thank you.

Thank you for coming on.
How can people get in touchwith you?

you can just follow me at Dr Tim Pierce on
all the platforms beautiful andif you haven't seen any of his
platforms, I highly recommend.

If you're in the aesthetic and cosmetic
industry, you won't know whatyou've missed out, but there is
a lot of content out there, andthank you again, tim, for coming
on on a Saturday and enjoy therest of the weekend with your
family, and hopefully we'll meetsometime soon, whether in the
US or in Europe.

Thank, you so much.
No, I really appreciate beinginvited.
It's very honored to get themessage.
I'm glad we made it happen.

No, thank you.
That says a lot about who youare as a person and I truly
appreciate it.
And so long Tim.

Thank you very much.

Thank you, bye-bye, all right, episode's
over.
I hope you enjoyed myconversation with the one and
only Dr Tim Pierce fromManchester, england, and please
don't forget to leave me areview on Apple iTunes or leave
your comments on Spotify, andhope you tune in until next time

(01:27:37):
.
Bye-bye.

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