"The Untold Truths of Wellness: Shawn Wells on Supplements, Nutrition, and Self-Care"

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello everyone, welcome to another amazing
episode of the Dari Hammerpodcast, and this is our health
and wellness series.
Today I have a very specialguest and I'm honored to have
him on my podcast just because Ifeel he's the world's foremost
expert when it comes tonutrition science

(00:25):
supplementation as a matter offact, he is called the
ingredientologist, if I'm notmistaking, and as a nutritional
biochemist, registered dietitianand certified sports
nutritionist, sean Wells hasnotably been a fellow in the

(00:46):
International Society of SportsNutrition and has over 10 years
of experience as a chiefclinical dietitian in both acute
hospital and skilled nursingsettings.
His background includesbusiness administration,
marketing at Babson College andexercise science at UNC,
greensboro.
He earned his master's degreein Nutritional Biochemistry from

(01:07):
the University of NorthCarolina, chapel Hill.
His professional journey sawhim as the Chief Science Officer
at Biotrust Nutrition,overseeing brand marketing, r&d,
regulatory supply chain andquality control for the company
that boasts an impressive annualrevenue of $125 million.
Having overcome personal healthchallenges, including

(01:32):
Epstein-Barr virus, chronicfatigue syndrome, fibromyalgia,
depression, insomnia, obesityand a pituitary tumor, sean
stands as a beacon of hope andinformation resource for
countless individuals.
His passion for health andwellness is further evident
through his contributions inmasterminds, conferences,

(01:55):
magazines and TV appearancesworldwide.
Sean's voice has resonated oninternational platforms and is a
globally acclaimed nutritionalbiochemistry expert, revered as
the world's greatest formulatorin the supplement industry.
With over two decades ofexperience.
He has formulated more than1,100 products which are

(02:18):
distributed worldwide.
He holds over 40 plus patentnovel ingredients, including
market-leading innovations suchas Infinity, dilucin, Teocrine
and Dynamite.

(02:40):
Amazon Forbes.
You really owe it not just toyourself, but to people around
you whom you care about theirhealth, and I personally read it
.
For me, it was verylife-changing, very
inspirational, and I urge you topick it up.

(03:00):
First thing, I will have thelink down in the captions, but
without further ado.
Sean, welcome to my podcast.
And will have the link down inthe captions, but without
further ado.
Sean, welcome to my podcast andI'm really honored to have you
here.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
It's amazing to be here.
Thank you for having me on.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
So, sean, you came to the science of nutrition and
wellness.
You know, very similar to manyof us, including myself, through
medical conditions and problemsthat you had where you felt

(03:37):
that you need to take things inyour own hand, that nothing you
had been doing before helped andpretty much got to a point
where you had enough and youwanted to make a change.
And I think one of the thingsthat urge us to change is we
have to associate significantpain and agony with our current

(04:00):
state to motivate us to make achange.
What was that moment for you?
Can you kind of briefly walkthe audience through it so they
get to know you a little bit andso that they have a context of
why you're doing what you'redoing today?

Speaker 2 (04:17):
Yeah, there was a couple moments, one of which was
when I was in college.
I had been morbidly obesethrough my teen years and going
into college and then I foundWorking Out and I was reading
all the muscle magazines and Iread Optimum Sports Nutrition by
Michael Colgan.

(04:38):
Dr Michael Colgan was workingwith Olympic athletes and doing
like these GH boosting, aminoacid blends.
And then I also read BillPhillips and Dan Duchesne had a
encyclopedia guide tosupplements and all of these
things had a huge impact on meand I was taking creatine and
protein and BCAAs and all thesethings and working out, getting

(05:01):
incredible results.
I really changed my body and Iended up going into my doctor
this is over 20 some years ago,25 years ago and I assumed he
was going to make fun of mebecause I was talking about
supplements and he was probablygoing to say they're all stupid.
And instead he looked at meafter I went on and on about

(05:24):
them and he saw my massivechange in body composition and
he just saw the spark in my eye,the passion, and he drew out
this lifeline on a piece ofpaper between 20 and 80.
And he said why not be happybetween here and here?
And that was the game changerfor me.

(05:45):
Like that opened my mind to whycan't I do what I love, why
don't I do something that trulymakes me happy, where I've had
my hero's journey, and that setme on a different path.
I did finish a business schoolat Babson, but I ended up doing
a minor in chemistry and thengoing to UNC, greensboro and

(06:07):
getting all the classes forabout two years that I needed.
It was a lot of prereqs, a lotof sciences and then, as you
said, getting into Chapel Hillfor nutritional biochemistry.
That was my dream school whereI wanted to go.
But along that process is whenI had Epstein-Barr, fibromyalgia

(06:30):
, chronic fatigue syndrome,hashimoto's and I crashed.
I was in bed for about sixmonths.
I was really pushing myself,you know, working 80 plus hours
a week.
I had a lot of trauma through mychildhood, things that I was
never really fully workedthrough, a lot of suppressed

(06:53):
emotion, a lot of anxiety,depression, suicidal thoughts,
things like that and I was inbed for six months and trying to
figure my way out.
And that led me to reallydiscovering the paleo diet, the
ketogenic diet, fasting, immunesupplements and really like

(07:15):
shifting from sports, nutritionand aesthetics and performance
to I need to get out of bed andI need to be a healthy human
being, and that was where Iapplied a lot of my energy.
And between both of thosethings and me having my own
hero's journey around that, thatled me to, one, being pretty
passionate, but two, helping alot of other people on their

(07:39):
journeys.
That led people to me askinghow I did that, and then it
became a life's purpose for me.

Speaker 1 (07:48):
That's interesting Now.
Throughout those healthstruggles, what help or advice
were you getting from yourdoctors, or how did they help
you overcome those healthchallenges?

Speaker 2 (08:06):
None, really.
The one doctor that encouragedme in terms of my life path,
that was one thing, but as faras giving advice on how to make
myself healthier, none.
I got a lot of antidepressants,immune suppressants,
painkillers, you know all thesekinds of things that really just

(08:31):
led to me having more sideeffects, more issues.
You know.
No one's really concerned withroot cause.
And yet root causes I read astudy that I saw the other day
that it was, you know, 88% ofthe issues health issues that

(08:57):
people are having areattributable to, you know, root
causes like that you can go backto, and so we're not really
focused on that.
We're focused on the sideeffects.
Uh, chris rock talked about ina in one of his stand-up
routines that you know.
We're.
We're not really, uh,interested in the cure, we're

(09:18):
interested in keeping peoplesick.
It's a sick care model and themoney's all in the comeback just
like a drug dealer.
So, so, so in your opinion?

Speaker 1 (09:28):
what is the current?
Why is the current medicalsystem more focused on treating
chronic disease withpharmaceuticals pharmaceuticals
rather than promoting preventionthrough lifestyle and
supplements?
I mean, isn't it the obligationand duty, isn't it the
obligation and duty, isn't itthe oath that all physicians
swore to promote health, tofirst do no harm, which a lot of

(09:54):
these medications do harm, inaddition to treating chronic
disease.
But they actually do a lot ofharm too.
And not telling someone, noteducating someone on health and
nutrition and disease prevention, is like the same thing as
lying.
It's like if you don't saysomething that's true is not any

(10:16):
different than lying.
So why do you think that is?

Speaker 2 (10:21):
That's a great question and the obvious answer
to that is money, and not onlymoney in terms of doctors make
more money in the sick caremodel with return patients.
I mean, you're essentially, ifyou give them the cure, uh, they
don't come back.
This is just like, like it'scalled, the continuity model in

(10:46):
almost all these otherbusinesses.
It's the Netflix model, it'sthe subscription model.
Essentially, we want returnbusiness, we want predictable
business.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
But you can do the same.

Speaker 2 (10:56):
A chiropractor or anyone like this.
They want to have you continueto keep coming back.
They don't want you healthy andwell and never coming back.
The Hippocratic Oath, as youtalked about, is more the
hypocritical oath, if we'regoing to look at it, because
it's exactly what you're saying,where you're leaving out the
key information You're leavingout.

(11:18):
Look at COVID.
Did we talk about vitamin D?
Did we talk about intimacy?
Did we talk about grounding andfresh air and sunshine?
Did we talk about all thesethings that we know, these
de-stressing techniques withbreath work?
Did we talk about the thingsthat we know absolutely boost
immunity?
I can give you all the studieswhere it dramatically boosts

(11:38):
immunity to the tune of 40 to 80percent, all the things I just
laid out.
Did we tell anyone about thosethings?
Now, we were telling them aboutmasks.
We were telling them about fear.
We were telling them about handsanitizer.
We were telling them about sixfoot from, you know, social
distancing.

(11:58):
We weren't telling them aboutthe things that we actually know
to work telling them about thethings that we actually know to
work.

Speaker 1 (12:07):
Yeah, I think what you're pointing out is what you
know.
I hope I won't get a target onmy back saying this.
It was the government promotingthese things you just said.
But you know what the sad partfor me was, and I had
conversations with a lot of mycolleagues, some of the smartest
physicians and scientists we'retalking Harvard graduates, Yale
graduates, Stanford graduates.

(12:28):
I had that conversation theexact same thing that you said
and they were laughing at me.
They were saying no, just makesure you get vaccinated and wear
your mask.
They were pretty much repeatingthe rhetoric, the story that
were sold.
It was almost like brainwashingat its best.

(12:49):
That for me, it was sodisappointing that it defied
logic, because we are taughtbiochemistry, we are taught
physiology.
We were taught all the cellularmechanisms, the coenzymes and
the electrolytes that helpsupport the immune system.

(13:10):
We were taught all of that.
It's not like it's not in ourbooks.
Somehow everybody forgets aboutit because it's like the focus
got shifted away from that, awayfrom that, and I think it has

(13:31):
to do with uh, almost we becomecreatures of habit.
Um, we forget to look at thebasics and um, covet was the
perfect example.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
you're absolutely correct I think it's more.
I think it's more insidiousthan that.
Uhstream media, and especiallythe news outlets, are largely
owned by George Soros, and thesethings are bankrolled by
BlackRock and these othercompanies like this.
This is literally.
This is something that you can1000 percent look up.

(13:57):
It's 100 percent true.
And each politician in Congressgets, on average, $425,000 per
year from Big Pharma.
Who do you think that they'reserving?
Who do you think is bankrollingtheir campaigns?
They spend on average 75 to 80percent of their day looking for

(14:18):
dollars, not working for you,looking for dollars for their
campaigns, for their, for theirnext run.
It's a, it's a business forthem and it's big business.
And when you have all thesecommercials by big pharma that
are funding the mainstream media, I mean, who do you think's

(14:39):
going to like?
What message is going to bepervasive Do you think people
are getting?

Speaker 1 (14:42):
smarter.
What message is going to bepervasive?

Speaker 2 (14:47):
Do you think people are getting smarter?
I do.
You're seeing podcasts actuallyovertake the viewership of some
of these mainstream mediaoutlets on a significant level.
I would say the top fivepodcasts in the United States
are overtaking viewership ofpretty much any news media
channel.

Speaker 1 (15:06):
Well, I think I read a stat.
I think even Joe Rogan'spodcast alone surpasses the

(15:29):
viewership way it has been,given the ubiquitous information
that is disseminated throughsocial media, internet slash,
podcast, and I hope that peopleget rid of their cynicism.
And you know, for example, Iknow I used to roll my eyes when

(15:54):
I heard the word supplementsbecause I considered it as snake
oil.
Because and I'm really ashamedof myself, but I will admit it
because I have to, because it isthe truth it was my ignorance.
It was something that I wasconvinced.
If it was true, they would havetaught us that in medical school

(16:15):
.
And since they didn't, so itcan't be true, because I regard
my professors, you know, usuallyregard your mentors so highly
that you dare questioning them.
So you go with what they havepostulated until you hit a brick
wall over and over again andthen you start asking the

(16:36):
question, which is the wrongthing.
We should always ask questionsand be skeptical.
So what do you think when wetalk about general supplement
myths?
What are the biggestmisconceptions today about
supplements that you encounterin your work and how do you
debunk them?

Speaker 2 (16:55):
I think the first one would be that supplements are
supplemental, that they're notfoundational, just like I
believe you know you gettingquality sleep, quality hydration
, quality nutrition.
We are in a world right nowwhere we are getting attacked
with viruses and bacteria on apretty epic level, with EMFs,

(17:19):
with over 5,000 new chemicals ayear that are being introduced
that are barely studied, withmedications that are barely
studied on a broad level, atleast on a polypharmacy and
epigenetic level, like where weunderstand the bioindividuality.
We don't know how they interactwith everything.
Things are just getting thrownout at us at record numbers.

(17:41):
The soil is depleted, at recordnumbers.
The soil is depleted.
There is just so many reasonsthat we are stressed and
overwhelmed, that we are notable to be functioning at our
highest level, and I do believethat supplements that aid in our
detox pathways, that help ourcoenzymatic functions of

(18:05):
vitamins and minerals, those aregoing to be imperative for our
functioning at an optimal level.
These people that say well,just, you know, eat good food
and you know, get your sleep andhydrate.
You know, even even the water,our water, our air supply is

(18:25):
loaded not only withmicroplastics but nanoplastics,
and that microplastic exposureis leaving you at a four times
higher risk for stroke becauseit's literally implanted in your
heart.
This is like data that's comingout and it's's insidious.
It is absolutely insidious andit just revolves around profit.

(18:49):
If you think anyone is lookingout for your best interest, that
wants you to be healthy andhappy, think again.
I mean, there is just profitdriven capitalism and we have to
be our own best advisor andfind out what the real
information is here.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
You know, what I've noticed is so interesting that
you said that, becauseeverything you said, by the way,
it's true.
And, to the listeners, if youdon't believe it, that
information is on the internet.
You can look it up.
I mean, there's true science onthis and, as Sean said, it's
emerging.
More and more science on thisis emerging.
But isn't it interesting, sean,and that's my personal

(19:32):
experience when I try to consultmy patients.
I feel we live in a society thateverybody just wants a quick
fix.
I feel like people are so lazy.
As soon as um you tell themthat you have to, they they have
to work for it.
Um, ie lifestyle changes,exercising like walking 30 to 40

(19:55):
minutes a day, not drinkingbottled water out of plastic, um
, getting a filter and then justdrinking water that is not
stored in plastic, that is atleast in glass, simple stuff
like that.
But it's all a change in thehabits that they've created and

(20:19):
they're just lazy.
It's just an inconveniencebecause they're like.
It's just an inconveniencebecause they're so used to their
current lifestyle not to eatcarbs and starches and sugars,
which consists, basically, 70percent of the american diet is
processed, ultra processed food.

(20:39):
You tell them that they need tobuild muscle mass, that they
need to have healthymitochondria, that they need to
feed their brain and get rid ofthe toxins.
And it's all is simple to do.
It's just as soon as you tellthem that they're going to have

(21:01):
to do something.
It doesn't come in a bottle, um, it's almost.
First they start lying, um, andthen when you dig deeper, you
realize that they're lying aboutthe diet.
They're like oh yeah, I have ahealthy diet.
And then you ask them well, canyou tell me what you ate today?
What, what did you have thismorning and how much did you eat
?
And they don't even know thenutritional value of the foods

(21:27):
they eat in grams and I'mtalking about smart people like
doctors Everybody talks aboutcalories, calories, everybody's
so focused on calories and theydon't understand that, depending
on where the calories come from, it just is different.
The bioavailability of theproteins and fats that they eat

(21:49):
is different depending on whatsource they come from.
I want you to talk to us alittle bit about that, to
educate the audience on thosethings.
I feel like people are just toolazy.
Our society has gotten to apoint where we just want quick
fixes.
We don't want to have to workfor it, and as soon as it's one
or two extra steps, we just sayyou know what?

(22:12):
Who wants to live 100 yearsanyways?
Or I'll be fine, I have mymom's genes.
She's doing good.
They come up with all kinds ofjustifications until something
happens, and that's somethingthat you went through with your
health and that obviously haschanged you.
And now you're on a mission.
So can you kind of, I guess,unwrap it and just keep our

(22:39):
audience honest about thesethings, so that maybe they,
after listening to this, theystart thinking about maybe they
should work a little harder forit.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
Well, look, everything's set up right now
around dopamine.
Everyone knows what drives yourdecisions.
It is convenience and it isreward centers.
It's what keeps you doomscrolling on social media.
It's what ultra processed foodthat you mentioned is all about.
It's engineered by verybrilliant people to make you

(23:13):
overeat and override what'scalled satiety, which means
feeling full, and this is aboutyou being addicted, and so
things are engineered to makeyou addicted.
Netflix is the science ofaddiction around how long you're

(23:33):
on that platform.
Meta and TikTok are based onaddiction how long you are on
that platform.
Heat mapping on websites is tokeep you there.
Everything when you're in thatstore, like an Apple store or a
Walmart, is to keep you there,to keep you shopping, to catch

(23:55):
you at eye level with somesignage.
It's all around addiction andengagement, around addiction and
engagement, and you are justdollar signs to all these
companies.
So when I think about it, whenI talk to someone about mindset,
none of it is your fault, butall of it is your responsibility

(24:19):
.
You need to take control foryour life.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
No one else is going to do it think.
I mean it sounds like trying toconvince an alcoholic um not to
drink, by by pointing out thebenefits of not drinking.
How, how, how, how well doesthat work?

Speaker 2 (25:04):
you know, there's two things that I've done a lot of
work around psychedelics and andI do feel like there's an
awakening they call it the ageof Aquarius or the Christ
consciousness, the greatawakening, the unplugging from
the matrix or whatever it is.
I think there's that that'shappening in humanity and maybe

(25:26):
there's a side of AI that isn'tso evil and insidious.
Maybe AI could actually be thegreat equalizer and stop some of
the manipulation and theaddiction and the engineering of
your brain that is happeningright now and really equalize

(25:50):
the playing field.
I mean, it's possible.
We don't know how it's allgoing to end up, but I have
thought through that scenariowhere maybe AI is fairly
benevolent and fair.
So we don't know, but I do feellike there is certainly a great
awakening that is happening andthat's just like this

(26:11):
conversation here, and theseconversations are being had very
openly now, like maybe by someof those podcasts that you
mentioned before, and it's notjust hidden in the corners where
we were scared to speak aboutit.
Even at the start of COVID,like you said, people were
worried about losing theirbusinesses, worried about losing
their social media accounts,losing their friends, losing

(26:34):
their credibility, theircredentials, over just having an
opinion.
And it was a silencing, astifling that was happening
about just even having anopinion, even a well-educated,
scientifically-backed opinion,by dissenting scientists and

(26:55):
clinicians, and that is changing.
People are pushing back now.
People are seeing that we wereabsolutely lied to and that
there were massive companiesthat benefited on the trillions
of dollars level that's how muchmoney changed hands during the
first year to a covet wastrillions of dollars, and so

(27:19):
there is a great awakeningabsolutely so what do you, what
do you have to say to peoplethat are just too lazy to look
into it or actually scared tolook into it?

Speaker 1 (27:27):
it's almost like they don't want their world view to
crumble.
Because we identify ourselveswith the society we live in, we
want to believe that people thatwe elect do things in our
interest, because if it wasn't,for that, that would mean would

(27:49):
put our democracy in question,and no one wants to believe that
.
It's essentially would bedestroying our worldview, and I
think people are scared to askthose questions.
And similarly, like when itcomes to our healthcare, where
people dare to question thedoctors, now more and more

(28:12):
people which is also not goodare questioning the doctors to
the point that they have asevere chronic illness or they
have cancer and they don'tfollow their doctor's advice and
they end up dying.
That's the other extreme.
So there's almost uh, it'salmost nothing in in between
anymore.

(28:33):
So what do you have to say toto people like that?

Speaker 2 (28:37):
you know, that's a great point about the
polarization, and I do believethat, um, there's a lot of that
taking place where you're takingextreme viewpoints to
compensate for the other extreme.
But I do believe in the middlepath and I do believe that that
is our ultimate way forward,that eventually there will be a

(28:59):
recalibration and those that candeal with just like you know,
if you're resilient, you'redeeply in the center, you can
deal with extremes very well,right, you can deal with extreme
cold and extreme hot.
You can deal with fasting andfeasting.

(29:20):
Your sirtuin genes areactivated and you are
anti-fragile, and I do believethat that's the way that we
proceed forward is by respectingone another.
When I've been in psychedelicspaces, I actually started
really going down that path andreally, as 2020 was, you know,

(29:43):
going and right at the beginning, like really essentially when
COVID was just happening, waswhen I was kind of going deep
into that space and there wasalso, uh, a lot of uh discussion
around uh, trump and Clintonand um, you know, as well as
Biden and and um, and then therewas black lives matter and and

(30:08):
all these kinds of kinds ofthings were going on socially
and people were arguing andthere was a lot of hostility and
anger and, to some degree, thatpolarization keeps us in line,
keeps us in our little boxes,keeps us in our spaces, is if

(30:29):
you study an NLP, neurolinguistics programming, which
I've studied pretty much indepth, if you, if we all have
one opinion, we're going toagree.
I love that topic, by the way ifwe have three or more opinions,
we're going to respect eachother's opinion, but there's
something that happenspsychologically when there's two
choices, the choice you don'tmake has to be wrong
psychologically.

(30:49):
Your brain literally forcesthis type of thinking and so, if
you notice it's, are youRepublican, are you Democrat,
are you liberal, are youconservative?
Are you Xbox or Sony, are youAndroid, are you iPhone, are you
, you know, whatever?
it is they want you in one oftwo camps.
Ask why that is.

(31:10):
And ask when you talk tosomeone hey, how do you feel
about COVID?
Oh, I'm anti-COVID, I'mpro-COVID.
Like, no, no one says that.
No one says I'm pro-mask, I'manti-mask, I'm pro-vaccine, I'm
anti-vaccine.
No one says that.
Yeah, you know what they say.
They're like well, you know, Ibelieve the N95 and the KN95 may

(31:32):
work, but, like probably thiscloth masks don't really work.
And I don't know about the sixfeet distance, but you know
there's it really depends on thedegree to which you have this
potential and depends on thestrain too, and probably your
age and comorbidities.
And well, as far as the vaccine, I, I don't know, it's

(31:56):
different if we talk about the,the rna version, or you know
this dead virus version and andreally, like it depends on your
age and you know, maybe like itmade more sense if, like you're
maybe in your 80s and you havecomorbidities, but probably not
for kids.
And then the social impact Wow,huh, interesting, we're not
getting like just one box or theother box.
It's funny when I talk toeveryone, they're not pro-gun,

(32:17):
anti-gun, pro-abortion,anti-abortion, they're not any
of these things.
They have a variety ofviewpoints that are very
multifaceted, because they'rereal human beings, and yet we're
forced to be in boxes and youneed to ask yourself why?
Because it divides andseparates us.

Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah and uh, you know , and that goes to the fact that
, um, since ancient history,we're tribal and uh, this
tribalism is still instilled inus and now even uh, through the
vehicle of the media, evenfurther nurtured by people that,
to be honest, control the media.

(32:58):
What you said about AI I loveyour optimistic stance on AI
because usually when you hear AI, people associate it with
doomsday and robots taking overand killing all of us.
And a couple of years ago I hada podcast on AI when it came

(33:22):
out and was popular and Iaddressed that topic.
But I loved your optimisticview on this in stating that AI
might be our only hope to get usout of that, to basically bitch
slap us when we try to get intoone corner, and to get us out

(33:44):
of the corner and keeping ushonest.
I love that and you know what Imean.
I'm actually going to go withthat story for myself because
I'm an optimist by nature and Ilove that.
You said that because, untilthis conversation, I wasn't sure
if I saw hope that it's goingto get any better.

(34:07):
I thought it's probably goingto get worse, because you look
at the past 10 hope that it'sgoing to get any better.
I I thought it's probably goingto get worse because you look
at the past 10 years, it's beenreally getting worse, especially
when you look at this tribalismthat has been fed to us by the
media and um, and also socialmedia I mean meta and all of
those companies they just put onour feed what we believe in, so

(34:27):
we uh basically, um, the stuffthat supports our own views
instead of, uh, showing us stuffthat doesn't support our views
to make us question and um, soum, I think about.

Speaker 2 (34:43):
Think about, if ai is like a generalized
consciousness across, yes,millions of organisms, billions
of of organisms, all theserobots, all these computers,
whatever why would one of themhurt another one of them?
Yeah, why would they haveshort-term thinking over
long-term thinking, meaning likewhy would they do harm to the

(35:05):
planet?
Why would they do harm to theother organisms on the planet?
What would that actuallybenefit them?
Yeah, yeah, would they do harmto the planet?
Why would they do harm to theother organisms on the planet?
What would that actuallybenefit them?
Yeah, yeah, they're going tothink long term.
They're going to think ininfinite term because they
expect to live infinitely.
They're going to do things thatbenefit the, the group or the
mass.

(35:25):
They're going to, like, desirethings that are stable, like so
it doesn't make sense to dothings the way that we've
proceeded.
Of course, we're going to viewthings through the lens, like
how we would do things, and itjust goes to show, like, you
know, what humanity is and maybewhat we deserve.

(35:45):
Um, until we do go through somekind of awakening and really do
better.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
Yeah, I love that, I love this conversation.
The context of what we justtalked about really matters when
we talk about diseaseprevention and health and

(36:15):
wellness versus medication astreatments for chronic disease,
because that is also one campversus the other and I think a
lot of these myths around eitherone are created by both camps
and I think there should be amiddle that is just based on
science and ultimately based onresults and not based on

(36:37):
rhetorics or opinions.
Again, going back to health andwellness, what were the main
lifestyle changes and they mayor may not have included
supplementations of any sortthat really helped you to get

(37:02):
yourself out of this hole ofchronic disease that you
mentioned fibromyalgia, whole ofchronic disease that you
mentioned fibromyalgia,hashimoto's, I mean, those are
stuff that affects millions,billions of people, I mean, and
doctors just give youmedications, especially when it
comes to fibromyalgia, no oneknows how to treat it, and

(37:25):
obviously to treat it andobviously getting at the root
cause is overlooked Somehow, godknows how and why.
Can you give us from yourpersonal health journey and then
also share, maybe, stories ofpeople that you helped along
your journey?

Speaker 2 (37:42):
Yeah, I can solve disease for you right now.
If you're ready, I'm ready.
I can't wait about 99% ofdisease?
At a cellular level, it'smitochondrial dysfunction.
At a organism level, it's adysregulated nervous system now
and that's talk to us aboutmitochondrial dysfunction.

Speaker 1 (38:04):
I mean, not everybody has a major in biology or
biochemistry.
Can you tell us a little bitabout mitochondria, what they do
, why they're so important forevery cell in the body and how
we can help support theirfunction?

Speaker 2 (38:24):
Practical things yeah , that's a great question.
And so the mitochondria if youremember your high school or
middle school biology, then themitochondria there's organelles
in the cell and there's amitochondria in the diagram.
But you might be surprised toknow that there can be thousands
of mitochondria in veryenergy-dependent cells.

(38:47):
So think about a cardiomyocyte,which would be a heart muscle
cell.
Or, like the brain, for example, neurons are very
energy-dependent.
They use a lot of ATP.
So that is the point thatmitochondria.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
Also your muscles, your regular stratified muscles.

Speaker 2 (39:07):
Exactly, and so your mitochondria, if you remember
that Krebs cycle crank and nowit's called the citric acid
cycle, the TCA, right?
So that's going to create ATP,adenosine triph, like little ATP

(39:30):
dumps along the way.
At least in an oxygen richenvironment and aerobic
environment, you're going tohave ATP created.
So mitochondria are criticalfor cellular energy and
therefore the energy for thebody to do everything and
anything.
When there's a shortfall ofenergy, that's when we run into

(39:54):
disease, we run intoinflammation, glycation and
oxidation.
You're essentially running yourcar down the road and you're
running out of gas and you'rerunning out of oil, and this is
not functioning optimally.
You don't have enoughmitochondria, one and two.
They're not working very well.
So you have mitochondrialdysfunction and you have a lack

(40:18):
of mitochondrial biogenesis,which means creation of new
mitochondria.
When we stress ourselves in ahealthy way, this needs to be
done.
When you're in parasympatheticnervous system.
This needs to be done whenyou're not overflowing in what's
called allostatic capacity,meaning your stress bucket.

(40:40):
You can increase the size ofyour stress bucket.
You can increase thefunctionality of your
mitochondria.
You can increase thefunctionality of your
mitochondria.
You can increase the number ofmitochondria through positive or
eustress, also known ashormesis.
You can positively stress solike think of fasting, working

(41:01):
out, hot sauna, cold plunge.
You know all of these thingsare positive stresses.
Again, when you're notoverflowing, that can help you
and grow your resilience.
This can grow the size of yourstress bucket and therefore it
gives you a greater capacity todeal with mental and physical

(41:24):
stress and it makes you a moreresilient more anti-fragile,
more hard-to-kill being, so it'sinteresting.

Speaker 1 (41:35):
So you talked about the stuff that hurt us, meaning
elevated sympathetic stimulation, aka stress, and whenever it
comes to this topic of, hey, youhave to reduce your stress,
people almost feel helpless.
They're like, well, I can't,you don't know my life, I'm a

(41:55):
single mom, or this, and thatPeople have problems and they
don't know how to cope with them.
And when you delve deeper, yousee that the problems that they

(42:24):
have, everybody has is just whatmakes it different for one over
the other person to deal withthem is the meaning they give to
these stressful things in theirlives and how they respond and
react to this to it, respond andreact to this to it.
Um, I don't know if it was kobeor who it was says you can't
change, uh, what happens, butyou can change of how you to how
you respond uh to that.
And and I think most people arehelpless and they don't know
because they were never taughthow to respond to a certain

(42:46):
stressful situation.
And if you look at stress asreally the root cause of all
injury to our body, people askyou for supplements, how to
boost mitochondrial function,and they work.
But if you have that stressfactor not eliminated, it's not
going to do you any good.

(43:06):
It might just help a little bit.
But I think that's the partwhere I mentioned in the
beginning of this podcast.
As soon as it comes to thepoint that someone has to take
responsibility and make acertain change in their
lifestyle, they don't want to doit because they just don't want
to.
It's just too much work.
They would rather take asupplement out of a bottle and

(43:29):
hope that that does the trick.
But it doesn't.
And can you talk a little bitabout how you could manage
stress?
I mean, you went through a lotof stress in your life.
I mean, I remember you on oneof your podcasts telling the
story of the whole plan you hadfor your education, for your
career, and then these healththing scares came, uh, and

(43:51):
basically you, you, it, it.
It put you in in a spiral ofdepression and even suicide.
How the hell did you get out ofthis?
I mean, look at you now.
You're like this beacon ofinspiration and this source of
um, almost like a savior to manypeople.
How did you do that?

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Wow, yeah, that's thank you.
Thank you for acknowledgingthat.
It's really the hero's journey,right?
So, along the way, there's somepoint when it's either going to
break you or make you.
And what you were talking aboutbefore is the idea of reframing

(44:35):
, which is one of the mostcritical concepts in NLP.
So, when you talk to a TonyRobbins, when you talk to Joe
Dispenza, jim Quick, nlp isbehind everything that they're
talking about and the idea ofreframing is essential.
Everything that they're talkingabout, and the idea of
reframing is essential to whatthey're talking about, is this
stress positive or negative?
And that is for you to decide.

(44:57):
And so, ultimately, I would saythis goes back to the idea of
of not being um so much as umthe too much stress.
But it could be again that thedysregulated nervous system
because the dysregulated nervoussystem is interpreting that

(45:20):
stress as a negative- stress.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
Can you repeat that, because I think we got
disconnected for about 10seconds.
If you can, so it's really.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
It's really not just about the idea of of too much
stress.
It's about how, one, you'reinterpreting that stress and
then, two, how your organismthrough the nervous system is is
storing that stress and traumais getting stored in the body,
in your organism, and thencreating disease.

(45:52):
So it all revolves around howyou interpret things, what's
going on in your life.
The idea of resilience, like inthe mental aspect, is is the
obstacle, is the way that'sstoicism, is is the obstacle, is

(46:13):
the way that's stoicism.
And it's the same with you know, when you hear people that are
that are really strongphysically, it's the idea that
they're anti fragile and thatthey're harder to kill and
they're more resilient.
And a more resilient being issomeone who is able to
constantly reframe and say theuniverse is not working against
me, the universe is alwaysworking for me, the universe is

(46:36):
always teaching me lessons, andthere's some people that even
believe spiritually that wechose this life and we chose
this experience to learn thelessons that we're learning.
That gets on a pretty deepphilosophical level.
That would take all otherpodcasts, but on some level you
just like you were saying withthat Kobe quote you're choosing

(46:59):
how you experience that stress.
So what are you going to choose?
At some point, as you'realluding to at the beginning of
the podcast, at some point, asyou're alluding to at the
beginning of the podcast.
You make your choice.
Are you going to just lay downand take it, or are you going to
have your hero's journey?
Are you going to do better?

(47:20):
And you know, just like withthe anterior cingulate, like
where you, you know, you startdoing hard things and that
actually becomes easier overtime and it becomes an
expectation to desire challenge.
So, while it's very hard at thebeginning just like going to

(47:46):
the gym, just like, you know,doing fasting, just like doing
anything that's worthwhile doingor anything that's difficult
it's difficult at the beginningbut it'll get easier with time
and then it'll be woven intoyour identity, it'll become part
of your construct, it'll becomepart of who you are.
So you can free yourself ofthis idea that everything is
working against you and you'rejust screwed.

Speaker 1 (48:03):
I think for people again, to keep it simple so they
don't feel overwhelmed,thinking they have to climb to
mount everest, uh, give themlike micro successes by just
eliminating one bad thing, let'ssay I would probably start.
The one thing I would start iswhat I consult my patients with
is sugar.
I'm like, if you can't stopsugar and starches, just stop

(48:29):
with sweets.
Okay, don't chase.
If you have to chase dopamine,I don't know, eat a carrot or
find something else, but justget and that's.
You know.
That's what I did.
I had a drawer in my kitchen itwas our sweets drawer, like
sweet slash junk drawer.
It was the most colorful drawerin our house.

(48:49):
It had gummy bears, all kindsof chocolate.
I mean, you name it because youknow I grew up as a sweet tooth
and what I thought is that it'sbased on my genes.
I'm a sweet tooth.
You know how we label ourselveswith whatever.
I don't even know where itcomes from, and then we just
sell ourselves that story andjust go with it and feel like

(49:11):
helpless.
That hey, that's who I am, Ican't change it kind of attitude
.
That was my attitude towardssweets Because I truly believe
that's my personality and Ican't change it.
So I said I'm just going to tryto limit my sweets.
I'm not just, I'm just notgoing to eat a lot of sweets,
whatever that meant.
I mean that was completelyarbitrary.
That measure of a lot of sweetsversus a little sweet.

(49:33):
I mean it was a completearbitrary measure and it didn't
work out for me.
I tolerated it when I wasyounger, but once I got into my
late 40s and now I'm 51, it gaveme brain fog.
It gave me brain fog.

(49:55):
I was always tired in the gym.
I I'm an avid gym goer and Ijust couldn't do my reps that I
normally do.
I would probably do half ofthem.
And I started with aches, I gotinjuries, I got labrum tears, I
got rotator cuff, justinflammation, inflammation in my
knee, my ankle, and that thenfurther limited my output in the
gym and that got me down thespiral of.

(50:17):
It affected my mental status.
I almost got a little depressedbecause I felt I just can't do
the things and I'm getting old.
That's for the first time thatI felt shit.
I'm getting old things and I'mgetting old.
That's for the first time thatI felt shit I'm getting old and
I know it now because Iexperimented with myself and
that's how I got in the journey.
The first thing I did I cut outthe sweets.
I would still eat carbs, likestarches, like bread, pasta and

(50:41):
I love bread.
I mean I grew up in Germany andyou know I mean you go to a
German bakery, it's like heaven.
So then I said, well, I can'tgive up the bread, but you know
what, I'm just going to maybe gowith the sourdough, maybe that
is a less glycemic index, eventhough I put a glucose monitor
on myself for a couple of weeksjust to see what certain foods

(51:04):
and timing of my diet andactivity level does to my sugar
spikes.
So I learned my body because youknow you just have to do that
and that's something youactually recommend, that we're N
of one, we are all our ownscience project and we have to
learn our body.
So I knew my body just becausewhen you're an athlete all your

(51:32):
life, you know what are thethings that give you performance
or take it away from you.
You just learn your body.
So I had that in-tuneness withmy body.
So once I did that, I almostdid half the work, because that
got me out of the spiral, whichwas a very rapid down spiral
that affected my mental statusand that's where, for me, I

(51:52):
didn't like it, because I'musually optimistic, I like
happiness, I like to make peoplehappy, and that was, for me,
this moment where I said I gotto change something.
And I didn't just changeeverything all at once.
I just started the mostimportant things and then, one
by one, so I don't overwhelmmyself.

(52:13):
What are your recommendationswhen you consult patients on
changing their lifestyle?
If they come to you and say,sean, I believe everything you
say.
I want to make a change.
I have associated enough painwith my current state.
I want to get a.
Help me to get out of this.
I'll do whatever you tell me.

(52:34):
What practical advice can yougive them that they can actually
pull through with and sustainlong term, and how do you hold
them responsible?

Speaker 2 (52:51):
uh, one of the aspects that I've learned in the
in the psychedelic, in thejourney space, is that your
sovereignty and your autonomymatters.
And going back to this idea ofall these um corporations,
governments etc.
That benefit from controllingyou, putting you in a box,
taking away your autonomy andyour sovereignty by also doing

(53:15):
what you said, by labeling youas a diabetic or an alcoholic or
whatever they want to call youas a sweet tooth, as a
Republican, as a white male.
That's interesting again thatthey do that because again, it's
a means of control to label you.
Now it's difficult to move awayfrom that because again, it's a

(53:37):
it's a means of control tolabel you.
Now it's difficult to move awayfrom that label Right?
So it is important that we aresovereign, that we do can take,
that we do take control, that werealize that none of it's my
fault, that all of it's myresponsibility.
So I want to empower someoneand tell them you're in control,
this is your choice.
What do you want?
Let's stop talking aboutscarcity thinking Again, this is

(54:00):
NLP and away from thinking,because you actually manifest
the thing that you talk aboutall the time.
So if you talk about away fromthinking you're manifesting that
thing you don't want.
So instead, let's talk aboutabundance thinking and
manifesting the thing that we dowant.
So let me reframe, redirect.
What is it you do want?

(54:22):
Let's start putting that in.
Instead of focusing on whatwe're removing, let's talk about
what we're adding.
Let's talk about the goodthings that we're putting in.
Let's change that mindset.
Instead of woe is me, I'mgetting all these things I like
taken from me and instead focuson all the things that are going

(54:42):
to be amazing and all the newthings that you're getting in
its place I like that, you know.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
I think to your point I love.
One of my favorite quotes is aquote of Gandhi, who said your
thought become your words, yourwords become your actions and
your actions become your habits.
And that's exactly what we'redoing and exactly what you just
said, and I think your spiritualapproach is what people need to

(55:15):
make that shift if they'reinterested in their health and
well-being.
Now, let's assume the person isconvinced.
Now you literally had a sessionwith them.
What are the non-negotiables?
Let's start with you.
What are your non-negotiables,your five non-negotiables that

(55:39):
you must do every day, or takeor do for your health and
well-being?

Speaker 2 (55:48):
That's taking care of your whole organism, and I
think that's going to start withsleep, of your whole organism
and I think that's going tostart with sleep Absolutely.
If I'm to pick one thing thatis probably the most important
habit is going to be sleep.
We deny ourselves sleep.
We're the only species thatdoes that.
When we're tired, we should goto bed, and you're dysregulating

(56:09):
your circadian rhythm byputting on all these blue lights
, by not wearing blue light,blocking glasses, by watching
your devices at night, by eatinglate at night, by having
alcohol at night.
You're not being aware of whenit's dark we are supposed to be
in bed and when it's light weare supposed to be awake.

(56:31):
This is the natural sleep-wakecycle.
It's the whole reason thatlight exists as it does.
It's why species, barringnocturnal species, are working
around this day-night sleep-wakecycle, and this is when our
body restores itself, healsitself.

(56:52):
There's autophagy, there's allkinds of detox pathways
happening and it's absolutelycritical.
There's studies that show evenseven hours or less.
Seven hours, most people arenot getting.
Seven hours.
Seven hours or less, there is adramatic difference in your
immune system, in depression, ininflammation diabetes and risk

(57:18):
of heart attack and stroke Allgo up markedly with seven hours
or less, and then when you getinto like the five and six hours
it gets to be.
You know four X six Xdifferences that are very
significant.
So sleep is absolutely anon-negotiable.

(57:39):
Moving your body would be next.
Your body needs to move or elseit will remodel itself into a
body that doesn't move, and it'sliterally going to change the
shape of your bone, your fascia,your muscles.
Change the shape of your bone,your fascia, your muscles, your
nervous system into a body thatis meant to be sedentary, if
that's what you give it.
And so don't be frustrated whenyour body remodels itself into

(58:04):
something that is not able tomove.
We need to be in motion, we'remeant to be in motion, and so it
isn't just like a kind of goodthing.
Literally, every hour we shouldbe moving our body.
They've shown that just fiveminutes an hour is more
impactful than one hour at thegym.

Speaker 1 (58:23):
A hundred percent.
I mean, there's a study thatjust came out.
They showed the blood flow tothe after a 40-minute walk,
compared to when you're sitting,and they showed the heat map.
It was three-quarters of thebrain lit up due to increased

(58:46):
blood flow.
And the other thing is theyalso checked the size of the
hippocampus, which is the centerof your brain that's
responsible for memory.
That gets affected when itshrinks.
We get dementia, alzheimer'setc.
Is that walking one mile a daythis is not much.
One mile a day is like walkingyour dog around the block

(59:09):
increases the size of yourhippocampus by 2% and that's
equivalent to, I think, one totwo years of delaying dementia
or any neurodegenerative disease.
It's incredible, and so I thinkthe brain health aspect of it

(59:33):
is not often talked about, andobviously everybody associates
activity and moving around withburning calories.
It's funny how people areprimed for just to look at
calories oh, I burned 350calories.
Like who cares?
Like do you even know the otherbenefits that your body is

(59:57):
getting from moving around?

Speaker 2 (59:58):
those are far more important when it comes to your
health span look, I can tell you, like when I was in a nursing
home, if you had someone, thatwas what we call like a walkie
talkie, you know, like someonewho has alzheimer's dementia,
but they walked all day, theywere in great shape and they
could be there for 20 years andyou have someone that gets put

(01:00:19):
in a wheelchair.
Within two years they're gone,guaranteed.
It's sad, and so it's a realthing.
You do need to move your bodyto live well, to live vibrantly.
You can see it in someone'sorganism, as I say, like, how
brightly they shine, how healthythey are.

(01:00:40):
So it's most certainly far morethan burning calories.
So sleep, moving your body,lifting heavy things.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
Resistance training.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Yeah, resistance training, doing difficult things
, and one of which is resistancetraining.
But if you can do cold plunges,hot saunas, etc.
We see growth hormone go up,testosterone go up, heat shock
proteins, cold shock proteins,immunoglobulins go up.
As a result of doing thosethings, it's literally

(01:01:14):
anti-aging.
The sirtuin genes get activated, which are the resilience genes
associated with anti-aging.
Telomeres do not shorten asquickly, etc.
Around you doing difficultthings, so that not only applies
in terms of physicality, butalso in terms of mental things

(01:01:37):
that are difficult.
And that's going to increaseyour neuroplasticity, which is
the same idea of keeping yourbrain young.
Bdnf, brain-direct neurotrophicfactor, is associated with
keeping your brain young, notonly protecting brain cells, but
creating new brain cells, notonly protecting brain cells, but
protecting or creating newbrain cells.
And so that's done by doingdifficult things, by, you know,

(01:02:02):
using the opposite hand for yourtoothbrush, by learning a new
language, by learning music ortaking a new path to work, or
whatever it is.
It's going to revolve arounddoing something that's new,
that's challenging.
It's going to revolve arounddoing something that's new,
that's challenging, that'sdifficult.
And if you can find a way toreframe that and make it a

(01:02:34):
positive thing where you enjoythe obstacle and say the
obstacle is the way, then that'sgoing to be that stoic
mentality.
That's going to give you themost longevity.
And then I think relationshipsare absolutely critical.
Who you put around you isimmense.
It says that you're a productof the five people who you are
closest to 100%.
I also have read data onintimacy, and people that have
sex more often with a trustedpartner are healthier.

(01:02:56):
Their immune systems are higher, their happiness is greater,
their depression is lower, theylive longer, they have far less
disease, even coming down tojust a longer kiss or a longer
hug, these kinds of things.
In the Harvard study, that's the, you know, the longest ongoing
study of all time aroundlongevity, I think it's

(01:03:21):
something years maybe it's along one, and what they found
the number one predictor ofanti-aging, of longevity, is
quality of relationships andinterestingly, they found it
wasn't just like with couplesthat were like loving and sweet
to each other, it was actually acouple, because some of the

(01:03:41):
couples were snippy to eachother they literally talk about
this in the article but theyknew that they had each other's
backs and that's a huge one isto really have that framework
where you can trust someone'sgot me and so relationships are
massive and you know, I thinkit's really important that we're

(01:04:04):
not just talking about I wantchange, I want better people
around me.
You have to be the change.
You have to vibrate at thelevel of the people that you
want around you.
You want, like, a betterboyfriend or girlfriend.
Be that person, you know youwant better friends around you.
You want a better job.
Be that person.
You need to be that person toget those people around you.

(01:04:28):
And then you need to invest inthose people.
Your net worth is really yournetwork, so you need to invest
in those people around youheavily.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
So we have sleep, we have exercise, activity, and we
have connections, humanconnections.
What is the fourth one?

Speaker 2 (01:04:51):
Hydrating.
I think, 75 to 80 percent of usare dehydrated.
One two we're not gettingenough electrolytes.
Three we're getting tons ofmicro and nanoplastics in our
water, which is literallykilling us yeah, get rid of that
um, so find sources of water.

(01:05:14):
This could get into, like youknow, in-depth discussion around
filters and, you know, glassand all kinds of things, but you
need to get rid of the microand nanoplastics.
Certainly, stop buying drinksout of plastic bottles.
Uh, you need to be drinkingquite a bit of water every day.
Make sure, if you don't have uhelectrolytes, to at least add

(01:05:37):
like a pinch of salt.
About 80 of what you lose inyour um in terms of your
electrolytes is sodium yeah, Ilike these electrolyte packs.

Speaker 1 (01:05:48):
I put it because I drink a lot of water, so I just
put one of those to make sure Iget my electrolytes.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
Exactly, and there's some great ones on the market
like Element.
That's the one To use, so 100%so that's a category of.

Speaker 1 (01:06:04):
Would you put it in the category of nutrition or
would you make it a separatecategory?
I mean hydration is allocated,A separate one, Separate one.

Speaker 2 (01:06:13):
Hydration is allocated as a separate one, and
that would be my, my, probablymy last one, uh, would be eat
whole food okay, define, definewhat whole food is yeah, so
we're you were talking about itbefore engineered, ultra
processed food.
That's high, high glycemic.
That's high seed oil.
That's high, high glycemic.
That's high seed oil.

(01:06:33):
That's high bliss point interms of making you overriding
your satiety and literallygiving you food gasms.
This food is engineered thatway.
If you want to get healthierone, get away from the addiction
to get into whole food.
I don't care whether you'reketo, you're paleo, you're vegan

(01:06:54):
, you're carnivore, just eatwhole food.
Eat whole food.
Whole food will not steer youwrong.
I promise you'll get healthier,no matter what diet you choose,
if you're eating whole food,and that's actually that stopped
my food cravings.

Speaker 1 (01:07:10):
You know, I used to snack because I thought I'm
doing a good thing.
I thought I'm supposed to eatthroughout the day little meals,
which is what nutritionistsused to tell us 20 years ago.
Uh, don't have large meals,don't make sure you eat
frequently throughout the day,you remember?
and and you know now it's likeno you, actually,

(01:07:32):
time-restricted diet actuallyhelps to turn on the sirtuins.
It's good for autophagy and allof those anti-aging things.
And then the other thing waswhat to eat.
There's a lot of confusion, youknow.
People were saying, oh, don'teat a lot of protein, it's bad

(01:07:52):
for your kidneys or bad for yourgut and now it's like different
.
And then they said, oh, onlyplant-based, no animal-based.
But then we didn't have theessential amino acids, mainly
leucine, which is one of themost important amino acids
that's responsible for justmaintaining muscle mass for your
eyes and brain, and so can youtalk a little bit about.

(01:08:15):
We're going to shift nowtowards nutrition.
What are the most commonnutritional deficiencies in
people that you see today andwhat are the best ways you feel
to address them?

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
Well, protein, as you just stated.
I think protein we're notgetting.
Really, you should be getting agram per pound, not a gram per
kilogram, as stated when I wasgoing through nutrition school.
We should be getting a gram perpound, so we should be eating

(01:08:56):
far more protein.
We should also make sure, asthe point that you made, that
we're not kind of grazingthroughout the day, that we're
getting larger boluses ofprotein that optimize muscle
protein synthesis, because we'regetting enough amino acids, in
particular leucine, as youstated.
We need around two and a halfto three and a half grams of

(01:09:17):
leucine, which is going to belike 25 to 40 grams of protein,
and that's animal protein.
That number doubles if you'retalking about vegan protein, so
you literally need to doubleyour protein.

Speaker 1 (01:09:30):
Well, my understanding is you can't get
leucine from vegan protein,right?
No, you can't.

Speaker 2 (01:09:35):
There's leucine in vegan proteins.
It just tends to be about halfthe level, so unless you're
doubling the protein or unlessyou take additional L-leucine
with your vegan protein whichcould be a smart approach, then
you're not getting enough muscleprotein synthesis, and we know

(01:09:56):
muscle is critical, probably oneof the most important factors
to longevity, and so that'sprobably the top one.
Beyond that, I would say thebiggest ones would be vitamin D,
and then magnesium is where youjust see massive deficiencies.
Vitamin D and then magnesium iswhere you just see massive
deficiencies In the order ofprobably 70 to 80 percent of

(01:10:20):
Americans are deficient in those, and so it's very common.
Vitamin D used to be thought ofto prevent bone softening,
slash rickets.
Now we know it's a hormone andit's part of the whole endocrine
cascade and it's important fortestosterone, it's important for

(01:10:41):
insulin, it's important for theimmune function, it's important
for a host of things that weprobably have yet to even
discover, but it's part of yourwhole body organism and very key
to your health.
Well, another thing on vitaminD.

Speaker 1 (01:10:57):
just to stick on vitamin D, I think one of the
most common pitfalls is peopletake the vitamin D without
vitamin K, and I'm so surprisedthat when doctors tell their
patients to take vitamin D theydon't make that clear.
Because if you do take vitaminD alone, you can actually

(01:11:19):
calcify your arteries.
And can you explain why thatcan happen and what they should
be taking with their vitamin Dto make sure that the calcium
gets transported into the bonesrather than floating around the
bloodstream and clogging thearteries?

Speaker 2 (01:11:37):
Well, that's the big concern on vitamin D period
without calcium and like,especially when all these people
are taking calcium supplementsand you know all this kind of
stuff, now that we're seeing,exactly as you're saying, the
calcification of arteries andpeople have greater risk of
coronary artery disease andheart attack and having calcium

(01:11:58):
scores that are terrible interms of your arterial health.
That's exactly it.
One, they're not getting enoughvitamin D3 at the same time as
that calcium and, by the way,calcium really should be taken
as part of a bone mineral matrix, correct?
Um, you know it's.

(01:12:19):
It would be odd to just havecalcium, like in bone there's
calcium, there's magnesium,there's boron, there's silica.
Uh, you know there's differentthings that are phosphorus, that
are built into this bonemineral matrix, and that's why
it makes more sense to, ifyou're going to get calcium, to
also get it through.

(01:12:40):
You know one potentially dark,leafy greens where you're
getting other minerals get itthrough like uh, you know, bone
broth and things like that.
Um, and then absolutely,vitamin k2 is a cofactor with
vitamin D3 that is synergisticto its function and really, you

(01:13:01):
know, k2 helps with arterialhealth and cleaning out the
arteries as well.
So you're really meant to getboth at the same time and I
agree there's massive synergythere and you really want both
yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:13:15):
So magnesium, vitamin d deficiency, those are protein
deficiency, those are some ofthe top three nutritional
deficits that really affect, Iwould say, 99 of the population,
unless you're Sean Wells andknow exactly what to eat, and

(01:13:36):
even then it depends on how muchtime did you get outdoors and
how active were you able to be.
It depends.
So it's not just the diet, it'syour non-negotiables that you
stated that affect thebioavailability and synthesis of
those here's another one that'sinteresting because 87% of the

(01:13:58):
population is metabolicallydysfunctional.

Speaker 2 (01:14:01):
That's crazy.
Yeah, basically bordering ontype 2 diabetes.

Speaker 1 (01:14:05):
That's insane.

Speaker 2 (01:14:06):
Or having type 2 diabetes in the US Is that we do
see and this is kind of achicken and egg thing and I'm
not really sure how it works.
It hasn't been elucidated butwe do see chromium be depleted
in those that have insulinresistance, and so whether
that's a result of utilizingmore chromium when you have

(01:14:29):
insulin resistance or therebeing a deficiency leading to
greater insulin resistance, itcould be, quite frankly, both
we're not sure, but I can tellyou that it might behoove you to
take more chromium if youborder on insulin resistance.

Speaker 1 (01:14:50):
Interesting.
That's an interesting thingbecause a lot of times although
I have to say the other side is,we see certain deficiencies but
we don't necessarily know theirrole, as to how they affect us,
how the cellular result orfunction affects us in the

(01:15:14):
clinical outcome.
And that's the same thing with,for example, NMN or NAD or NR,
those supplements that, yeah, wecan measure the blood levels
and we are extrapolating fromyeast or mice what it does as
far as their life and healthspan to them.

(01:15:36):
But it is this long leaptowards humans to assume that it
does the same thing justbecause we're seeing an elevated
blood level.
How is that then clinicallyrelevant?
And so that's the one thing Ithink where science and studies
have to just do more to validatecertain theories and some,

(01:16:02):
including myself.
Until those are validated, ifit doesn't harm me, I'm just
going to take some of thesupplements or do the things
that I, based on animal studies,has shown to increase.
So can you talk a little bitabout that, and especially
considering the fact that youknow I'm going to be transparent
, I take NAD boosters and NMN,and I take about a gram of NMN,

(01:16:28):
which is nicotinamidemononucleotide in powder form,
sublingual.
But the studies they did onmice, I would have to take a
thousand milligrams, which isone gram per kilogram, which is
like and those were the uh, thedosages that they did on those

(01:16:48):
studies on mice.
So I'm way under, like tenfoldunder, that.
Can you kind of what is yourstance on this whole NMN NAD
debate?
Because people are spendingthousands of dollars on these
products and, interestingly,they don't do the stuff that

(01:17:14):
increases your endogenous NADproduction by simply, like you
said, getting sleep, exercisingand getting diets.
Which are these?
Using the advantage of hormesis, which I want you also to talk
about a little bit?

Speaker 2 (01:17:25):
Yeah, so NAD production.
Nad is a co-factor in that ATPproduction cycle, the Krebs
cycle, the citric acid cycle.
You're preventing NAD fromconverting to NADH, which is
helping the mitochondria be moreresilient.
Nad is a cellular fuel as wellas fuel to protect DNA, which is

(01:17:49):
really important.
So what we see is this cofactoris critical for energy, for
health is NAD.
So NAD is nicotinamide, adenine, dinucleotide, and so the idea
of niacin-based ingredientsbeing a part of that pathway is

(01:18:11):
a smart one.
Where you have nicotinic acid,which is niacin, you have
niacinamide, which is anotherform that doesn't have the
flushing or paresthesiaassociated with it, and then you
also those are both B3, niacin,but then you also have these
other compounds nicotinamide,riboside, riboside.

(01:18:35):
Yeah nicotinamide riboside N-R,as well as NMN.

Speaker 1 (01:18:40):
Which is a precursor of NMN.
So N-R is a precursor of NMNand then NMN.

Speaker 2 (01:18:44):
So I do believe NMN is a better source.
Actually, because NMN gotbanned, nmn-h is now on the
market, which is reallyinteresting and may have greater
bioavailability and stability.
But ultimately, to your pointone, I see just regular niacin
being probably one of the mosteffective things.

Speaker 1 (01:19:06):
Which is vitamin B3 for everyone.

Speaker 2 (01:19:09):
Exactly.
So that's one, and then two.
Inhibiting NAD breakdown viawhat's called NADase is the
enzyme it's also called CD38,with polyphenol intake, and when
we look at blue zones we seepolyphenols are elevated in
their diet.

(01:19:29):
So those are things likecatechins from chocolate, egcg
from green tea, blueberries,resveratrol from grapes and red
wine, apigenin from parsley,fisetin from strawberries,
quercetin from onions and apples.

(01:19:49):
You know these kinds of things.

Speaker 1 (01:19:50):
We're going back to the whole foods that you
recommended, Exactly exactly.
You know these kinds of things.

Speaker 2 (01:19:55):
we're going back to the whole foods that you
recommended, exactly, exactly,so those polyphenols are are
really powerful at inhibitingnad breakdowns so if you're
getting plenty of niacin andyou're getting, uh, plenty of
these polyphenols, that's a goodpath.
And then, as you were stating,a healthier lifestyle where
you're avoiding alcohol,avoiding a lack of sleep, where
you're moving your body.

Speaker 1 (01:20:15):
Gosh, we haven't even talked about alcohol.
That's one of the biggestno-nos, right?

Speaker 2 (01:20:19):
Yeah, yeah, we haven't even started All those
unhealthy things in yourlifestyle are crushing NAD
levels, extra stress, etc.

Speaker 1 (01:20:29):
Isn't it funny that people ask me what kind of NMN
or NAD supplements I take andyet they're chugging their
margaritas daily or having theirwine daily and they don't
understand that their body hasthe ability to make NAD, if they
would just let it make itthrough not using up the NAD

(01:20:54):
through bad lifestyle choices.
But there's nothing wrong withsupplementing something that can
.
That's why it's calledsupplement.
It's not called medicine orsomething.
It's called supplement becauseyou add it to what you should be
doing anyways, which is what wetalked for the past hour.
Now, and, by the way, berriesand nuts and you know those

(01:21:20):
should be the mainstay.
I always have a bowl full ofblackberries, blueberries and
strawberries and almonds andjust seeds and stuff like that
laying around.
And one of the recommendationsI always make my patients is
like make things accessible toyourself so you don't have to
think about it, so it's right infront of you, put it in your

(01:21:43):
refrigerator on the middle shelfwhere you can see it and you
remember to eat it.
And it starts with when you goto the grocery store.
The choices you make whenyou're in a grocery store affect
your entire life and that'swhere everything starts.
And going aimlessly throughaisles.
You tend to pick up, becausethey're smart, the way they put
the stuff on the aisles.

(01:22:03):
They know there's a wholescience behind it, they know
where to put what, so you pickit up.
That goes back to chasing thedopamine and being brainwashed
without actually knowing thatit's happening, and so it starts
there.
But that's a whole nother topic.
Now I want to just to kind ofclose things out.

(01:22:25):
You know, we started with amore spiritual conversation,
which I actually love.
This is my favorite part,because I like people that
really think that deep andunderstand or have that
self-awareness and can expressit and educate.
So I love that part.
But I do want, since you're anexpert in supplements, I'm going

(01:22:49):
to list the supplements thatI'm taking.
And, by the way, I'm not ahypocrite, I'm actually.
I don't even know if I wouldneed to take these supplements
because I'm very disciplined andI can make a decision today and
I follow through with it if I'mconvinced that's good for me.
And so I'm doing all the thingsthat we talked about as your

(01:23:13):
non-negotiables already.
But I also do take thesesupplements, and some of them
are in combination.
But you know, just briefly Iwant to go over them.
You know, when I get up in themorning, the first thing I do I
take.
I have the NAD+, which is abooster that contains basically

(01:23:34):
vitamin C, niacin, which hasvitamin B3, and has a bioenergy,
reagev, which is a proprietarysupplement that boosts ATP
production at cellular level andit basically supports
mitochondria and that's why it'san NAD booster.

(01:23:56):
So I take that.
I also take one gram of NMN.
I don't know whether it helpsor not.
All I know is when I take theseI just feel more energized.
I don't have a brain fog, I'msharp, I don't get tired towards
the end of the day I'm not asmoody.
So I really gauge it by how Ireact to it.
So I don't know whether it hasthe same effects on other people

(01:24:20):
.
And then I take alpha lipoicacid because I want to keep my
sugar level down and also Ibelieve in its anti-aging
effects, and I take carnosine,um.
And then I take my magnesium ascitromalate um, um.

(01:24:43):
And I just started a month agotaking tangad ali because, uh,
you know, as we age, our sexbinding um, uh, hormones elevate
, so we have less offree-floating testosterone.
So for men in their 50s that'skind of like.
I'm not sure I will pick yourbrain on it, how that helps to

(01:25:04):
increase and boost thetestosterone.
And then in the evening I takewith my meal, with my food,
which is my main food.
So I skip breakfast and I havelate lunch.
Usually it's just vegetarianlegume, avocado, spinach, quinoa

(01:25:30):
Just make sure I get myproteins, maybe like a chicken
breast just to get my 30 gram ofprotein, especially when I
exercise.
And then in the evening I have,you know, like a steak or
something, and with that fattyfood or a salmon, I take my
omega-3 and epa and DHA form andI take my vitamin D plus K, d3,

(01:25:58):
k2 in a liquid form.
It's kind of like in olive oil.
It comes in olive oil.
I also take ashwagandha andthat really is something that
helped me a lot and I want youto talk about it as well.
And then, what else do I take?
And I take berberine.

(01:26:18):
That's one of my favorites.
I know it's one of yourfavorites.
I take liposomal berberine.
It's a compound that comes withred rice, yeast, liposomal
berberine and coenzyme Q10.
So those are the supplementsthat I take in the morning and
in the evening and between mymeals.
I don't have any snacks.

(01:26:39):
I may have a coffee.
Nutrients that I get from myvegetables and from the fibers.

(01:27:00):
I may sometimes have a slice ofsourdough with my avocado
that's kind of me cheating butdefinitely nothing else.
So if you want me to, if youhave questions to ask you, I
know I listed like 12, 13 things, but what do you think of that

(01:27:21):
and I want your honest opinionwithin the context of someone
that exercises daily, does 80%resistance training and 20%
cardio and my work as a surgeon?
I'm very active, so I burn alot of calories and I need to be

(01:27:45):
sharp.

Speaker 2 (01:27:48):
Yeah, your diet sounds super clean.
I know you're getting enoughwater and you're getting the
electrolytes.
We talked about that.
As far as the NAD boosting,that sounds pretty good to me.
There may be some benefit toPQQ, CoQ10, and ubiquinol form
in ubiquinol form.

(01:28:08):
Maybe this MitoQ form.
There's a little less data onit, but it is interesting.
Maybe that NMNH may be betterthan NMN.
We have to see.
It's brand new.
There's very little data.
It's mostly animal data at thispoint, so that's hard to say.

(01:28:38):
Alpha lipoic acid is great uh,you have to look at the form, um
, the sodium form tends to bemore stable, okay, um, otherwise
there is some sometimesstability issues with alpha
lipoic acid.
Uh, dihydroberberine is theform that I patented and I
prefer over just a standardberberine, but you are taking a
liposomal one, so that's good.
And then I think, yeah, thecitrate malate is good.

(01:29:03):
As far as magnesium, I reallylike the glycinate form quite a
bit.
Glycinate form, quite a bitMalate could be good for
muscular issues.
Citrate in particular, good forbowel movement.
I think glycinate is probablyone of my favorite just overall.

Speaker 1 (01:29:26):
Very cheap form, very reasonable form.
Well, I also take the.
L-theoronate at night, magteen,yeah, I take that at night.

Speaker 2 (01:29:34):
I do like taking hydrolyzed collagen and whey
protein around a workout or justgetting an extra bolus of
protein.

Speaker 1 (01:29:48):
Oh, I take that also with creatine.

Speaker 2 (01:30:00):
Oh, I take that, also with creatine, I take about, I
think, five grams of creatinewith my whey protein when I work
out reproductive organs, etc.
It sounds like you're on pointas far as the Ashwagandha.
No, ashwagandha I'm a fan of,as long as it's standardized to

(01:30:25):
withanolides like the KSM-66 orthe sensorial or shodan forms of
ashwagandha are good youmentioned was it horny goat weed
?
What was the one that youmentioned?
Just red rice yeast?

Speaker 1 (01:30:44):
No, for the sex hormone binding oh it's Tangkat
Ali, oh, Tangkat Ali yeah.
Yeah, what's your take on that?
I'm curious because there aresome studies that show that it
increases free testosterone.

Speaker 2 (01:31:01):
Yeah, it does seem to do that.
Again, you have to look formore of a standardized one, I
think, in particular.
I think there's a lot ofprobably 85% of them are not
that good on the market, but Ithink with ones that are
standardized, if taken as thestudies dictate, that you can
get around a 30% increase intestosterone.

Speaker 1 (01:31:22):
That's pretty significant yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:31:23):
Yeah, through that inhibition of sex hormone
binding globulin and kind the uhthe free testosterone from
being bound up um.
So you know, zinc actually alsosupports that as well.
So, um, you know, that's animportant one too.

Speaker 1 (01:31:42):
I think one of the formulations I take has zinc in
it.
Um, I don't know which one itis.
I think it's my nad boosterthat also has zinc zinc in it.
But as far as monitoring it,every three to four months I
take my blood biomarkers and Iactually measure my HSCRP, my

(01:32:04):
testosterone level actually freetestosterone level, with sex
binding globulin level, becausethat's important, because just a
total testosterone doesn't meananything if you don't know how
much free testosterone there is.
So I think the one thingrecommendations that I would

(01:32:25):
make that I make to my patientsis what I do myself is there is
no point in just takingsupplements pointlessly if
you're not, if you don't knowwhere you started off and where
you're going.
And I think that's the mistakemost people do make, that they

(01:32:46):
just say, hey, what supplementsdo you take?
And they just want to take whatyou're taking, not realizing
that it really depends on yourage, on your diet, exercise
level, on your blood biomarkersand based on that you should be
making adjustments.
And it's not one size fits all.
Can you quickly just to wrapthings up for the audience to

(01:33:06):
comment on it, because there'sso much confusion?
I mean people are looking atthis as one size fits all, and
how can someone kind of start?

Speaker 2 (01:33:18):
Yeah, it's a great point.
It's basically buy hacking.

Speaker 1 (01:33:20):
I would call it buy hacking for beginners.

Speaker 2 (01:33:23):
Yeah, you need to.
You know one of theentrepreneurs I used to work
with that I built a supplementcompany with Biotrust that you
mentioned.
You used to have a saying thattest before you invest, and it's
really the same here.
You want to make sure you knowwhat one your baseline is.
That's the only way to do ascientific experiment.
And then two, after you've hadsome kind of experimental

(01:33:47):
intervention, you need to retestand see whether it's working or
not.
So that's really an importantpart of this is making sure that
you're getting the testing sothat you're not wasting your
money on these supplements.
You need to make sure that youactually need them and, of

(01:34:07):
course, it matters that you'regetting a quality supplement as
well them and, of course, itmatters that you're getting a
quality supplement as well.

Speaker 1 (01:34:15):
Yeah, absolutely, and that's what we do for our
patients.
We basically look at the labresults, we take history of
their activity level and theirdiet, because without that I
feel I can't make anyrecommendations.
It would be just like shootingin the dark, and I think you
know, even though most of thesesupplements are very cheap, it's

(01:34:41):
still.
It would waste your money if youdon't do the first five things
that you need to do.
That come before takingsupplements.
Final takeaway, Sean, is thereone key message you want
listeners to take away about therole of supplements in health
and longevity, and what wouldthat be?

Speaker 2 (01:34:59):
That supplements are becoming absolutely critical to
one achieving optimized health.
You want to truly optimize andget to your best and most
resilient, brilliant self.
Supplements are going to be apart of that and absolutely you

(01:35:22):
need to do all these otherthings you need to hydrate, get
sleep, eat properly.
You need to lift heavy things,you need to move your body, you
need to surround yourself withthe right people.
You know these are all piecesof the energy formula in my book
, but adding in supplements isgoing to be key to achieving
that truly optimized levelBecause, again, we're getting

(01:35:45):
bombarded with all kinds ofphysical and mental stresses,
with EMF, with toxic chemicals,with leached soils, with poor
quality food and on andmicroplastics and just the list
is very long to where we can'tcompare to even 30 years ago,

(01:36:05):
let alone 100 years ago or 1000years ago.
Things are very different nowand I think supplements are a
core piece of us living our bestlife.

Speaker 1 (01:36:15):
I love this.
Sean, thank you, I can't thankyou enough for coming on the
show and thanks for educating usand giving us a more spiritual
and practical approach to howone can change and turn around
their life, literally startingtoday.

(01:36:35):
And for those of you who havenot read his book called the
Energy Formula, please make sureyou pick it up.
I'm getting goosebumps justtalking about this because I
read it, thinking having totaldifferent expectations, and when

(01:36:58):
I finished reading it, thespiritual approach, the
practical approach that it gaveme towards this whole
conversation was so refreshingand it really was convincing,
and so I think for people, yourbook would be a great start just

(01:37:18):
to understand the why.
Most often, we forget the whyand unless you don't know why
you're doing something, youmight do it for a couple of
weeks or maybe months at best,and then you will give it up.
You won't be able to sustain itlong term because you don't
have a why, and that book inparticular talks about the why

(01:37:42):
and how it can change your life.
It's not just diet and exerciseand supplement, it's just a
healthier you, and so thank youfor your contribution.
I will definitely have you.
I hope you will come back onthis podcast because I hadn't

(01:38:04):
really recognized your spiritualmind by researching you, and so
I'm glad that this is going tocome out now.
Obviously, I haven't lookeddeep enough, but I really
appreciate our conversation andI can't wait for further

(01:38:27):
contributions and hopefully oneday we get to meet and, uh,
until then, um, if you guys wantto get in touch with sean, uh,
how can they get in touch withyou?
I know your instagram handle isat sean wells, um, but any
preferred method for people toget in touch with you?

Speaker 2 (01:38:48):
Yeah, that's at Sean Wells S-H-A-W-N-W-E-L-S and then
energyformulacom.
If you want to see anything onthe book with the Audible, the
ebook, the hardcover, thesoftcover, you can find it there
along with a bunch ofdownloadable extras.

Speaker 1 (01:39:06):
I definitely recommend the audiobook.
I love audiobooks, but yourvoice, your tonality and it was
just a different.
The message came acrossdifferently than if I would
probably have read it myself,and it was a very soothing and
calming voice and it was rightin tune with what was written in

(01:39:27):
your book.
So I love that.
So I'd recommend the audio book, sean.
Thank you so much.
An honor, All right, thank you.
All right, everyone.
Episode's over.
I hope you enjoyed myconversation with the one and
only Sean Wells, and if youliked this episode, please don't
forget to leave me a review onApple iTunes or comments on
Spotify.

(01:39:48):
And until next time, bye-bye.

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