June 17, 2025 • 24 mins
Subscribe to Simplify My Money:
https://www.debtfreedad.com/newsletters/simplify-my-money
You’ve read the books. You’ve downloaded the budget templates. You know what to do—so why aren’t things changing? In this episode of the Debt Free Dad Podcast, Brad and the team get real about the behavioral blocks that keep people stuck in debt. It’s not about knowledge—it’s about habits, mindset, and community. If you’ve ever said, “I know better, but I just can’t seem to do better,” this episode is for you.
- Learn why knowledge isn’t enough
- Hear real stories of what finally made the difference
- Understand the role of accountability and support
- Walk away with practical tips to finally get unstuck
The Totally Awesome Debt Freedom Planner https://www.debtfreedad.com/planner
Connect With Brad
Website- https://www.debtfreedad.com
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/thedebtfreedad
Private Facebook Group - https://www.facebook.com/groups/debtfreedad
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/debtfreedad/
TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@debt_free_dad
YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@bradnelson-debtfreedad2751/featured
Thanks For Listening
Like what you hear? Please, subscribe on the platform you listen to most: Apple Podcasts, iHeartRadio, Spotify, Tune-In, Stitcher, YouTube Music, YouTube
We LOVE feedback, and also helps us grow our podcast! Please leave us an honest review in Apple Podcasts, we read every single one.
Is there someone that you think would benefit from the Debt Free Dad podcast? Please, share this episode with them on your favorite social network!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Brad Nelson (00:00):
All right, so you've read all the books,
you've watched the YouTubevideos, you've downloaded the
budget templates, but why doesit still feel like nothing is
really changing for you?
Now, if you've ever thought Iknow what I should be doing with
my money, I just can't seem todo it.
Well, this episode is going tobe perfect for you.
Today, we're going to be divinginto the real reason most
people stay stuck and spoileralert it's not a lack of
(00:23):
information.
It's all about behavior, habitsand really the stuff that
happens between your ears, andonce you understand what's
really holding you back, you canfinally get out of your own way
.
So let's break it down.
Announcer (00:37):
You're listening to the Debt-Free Dad Podcast with
Brad Nelson.
Brad and his co-hostsexperience the anxiety of living
paycheck to paycheck beforelearning the fundamentals of
financial success.
They are now on a mission toempower regular people to pay
off their debt for good andenjoy happier, less stressful
lives.
Keep listening forinspirational interviews, tips,
(00:59):
tricks and practical advice togain financial freedom.
Brad Nelson (01:07):
Hey guys, welcome to gain financial freedom.
Hey guys, welcome to today'sshow.
My name is Brad Nelson.
I'm the founder of Debt-FreeDebt.
I paid off about $45,000 indebt.
I've been debt-free now formore than 12 years and I've also
been fortunate to helpthousands of other people save
and pay off tens of millions ofdollars with the work that we do
here at Debt-Free Debt.
Chris Hawkins (01:22):
And my name is Chris Hawkins, and my wife and I
started our journey way back 20years ago, almost 2005.
And we have been debt-freesince 2008.
Kati Hatfield (01:33):
And I'm Katie Hatfield and I am still on my
journey to debt freedom, but inthe last almost seven years I
have paid off $222,604 in debton a single income.
Ryan Nelson (01:49):
And my name is Ryan Nelson.
My wife and I paid off about$160,000 over eight years while
we were raising three kids.
Katie, did you?
Brad Nelson (01:57):
say $202,000?
.
Kati Hatfield (01:59):
Two, two, two $222,000.
Brad Nelson (02:03):
What happened over the last I mean, it was at like
below $2,000 for a while Did you, I mean $200,000,.
Kati Hatfield (02:08):
Yeah, I have been working really hard.
Let's see my annual bonus taxrefund.
I've just been plugging away.
Brad Nelson (02:16):
Dang getting after it.
Chris Hawkins (02:17):
I love that Every time I hear her give the number
.
It keeps going up I know.
Kati Hatfield (02:31):
Listen, I hate to say this, but I'm like what the
hell did she buy to go thatmuch right?
Well, let's see, there are acouple of medical bills, two
college student loans, um bunchof credit cards, uh, several
cars that I had negative equitythat I rolled over.
Brad Nelson (02:39):
It's just a lot of poor decisions and behaviors
which is what we're going to befocusing on today.
And, guys, after listening tothis episode, if you guys want
to take things to the next level, if you're ready to break free
from living paycheck to paycheck, you would like to be like
Katie, paying off $200,000 plus.
You want to reduce financialstress, build your savings,
(02:59):
finally pay off debt for good.
But, again, maybe you're notsure where exactly to start.
We've created some incrediblefree resources here at Debt Free
Dad to help you get there, andwe'll be sharing some details
about some of those later on intoday's episode.
So, as I mentioned, we'retalking about how to get on
stock with your finances, and alot of people tend to focus on
just learning education right,and not that that's a bad thing.
(03:22):
Education is important.
We've all had to start thereand figure this out, but I think
in today's day and age, withthe internet, especially with
the popularity now and thegrowing popularity of AI and all
of that information isn'treally the problem, and I would
really like to hit on what youguys feel about this, because we
all had to learn somethingabout this to get out of debt,
(03:44):
but I can pretty much guaranteethat all of us it wasn't really
the education.
That was the real issue.
It was doing it.
That was really the hard part,right.
Kati Hatfield (03:52):
Absolutely, I would say.
For me it was definitely thebehaviors I read Dave Ramsey I
got out of.
Let's see, I paid off $22,000before I ever joined Roots on my
own, but my problem was I wasstill charging to my credit
cards and so you have to stopdigging the hole so you can
(04:14):
finally get out of the hole.
That was definitely something,but I knew all the things, but I
had to learn something new andhave the accountability that
your program provides.
That definitely was the switchthat had to flip in my brain.
Chris Hawkins (04:31):
For me, it was overcomplicating things a couple
of times, almost too muchinformation, trying to be too
sophisticated, thinking that ifI did everything X, y and Z
perfectly, then it should bereally simple.
And it is simple, but it's hard.
If that makes sense, okay, butfor me it was overcomplicating
things and I had to learn thatI'm not the only one and that
(04:57):
you are going to get stuck.
Nobody's going to go throughthis perfectly.
I did a podcast episode, Ithink, last year the financial
roadmap that everybody's goingto go through, and I talked
about this a lot.
There are going to be timeswhere you go back to step number
one and you have to be willingto keep trying I think that's a
big part of it and learn fromyour own mistakes.
And eventually it took me twiceto learn that, hey, maybe I
(05:19):
shouldn't overcomplicate things,Keep it simple, and it makes it
a lot easier.
Ryan Nelson (05:25):
I think this episode applies to life.
So I've been suffering justI'll give you kind of a personal
story.
I've been suffering withplantar fasciitis for a couple
of years and so a few months agoI finally went to the doctor.
I'm like, okay, I've had enough, I'm going to go to the doctor.
He gave me all the information.
There's everything you need todo, and if you do all these
things, it'll get better.
I don't want to do it, and Ithink that that's the reality
(05:47):
for a lot of people.
Now I started to do it andguess what happened?
It started to get better, butthat first month and a half or
whatever and it was the same waywith debt.
I wanted to get better with mydebt, but I didn't want to do
the work.
I don't want to do what'snecessary to get better in my
finances, or and you just kindof take this and you can really
(06:07):
apply this to a lot of yourareas in your life it's like a
lot of people want to do thething that they want.
It's like this is the goal, thisis where I want to get to, but
then when you show them all thecrap they got to do to get there
, I don't want to do all that, Ijust want to get there.
(06:28):
You know they want the magicpill.
I want the magic pill.
It's going to make my feet feelbetter.
Because he said, well, we cangive you a shot.
And I've been denying itbecause I know if he gives me
the shot, it's going to make methink it feels better and I'm
definitely not going to do thework.
So it's like I've been avoidingto get that.
So I just think this is just agood episode, not just for your
finances, but for anything inyour life.
You know, if you want something, you got to be willing to do
all the crap that nobody'swilling to do to get there.
Brad Nelson (06:45):
Yeah, you know there was two things that really
kept me stuck from gettingstarted as number one and this
is still even applicable todayis that I hate stinking and
sucking at things.
I just hate it.
Like when you start anythingnew, you're not good at any of
it.
You're kind of dumb yeah, youdon't, you're just not good at
(07:07):
it and I hate that feeling.
I hate it.
But the only way to really getgood at it is, unfortunately,
you got to start right.
I think that's what kept mestuck for a while is that I just
I didn't want to suck at it.
I find myself stuck at some ofthose things even today, at 45
years old.
You know that I just don't wantto have that feeling that I'm
not good at something.
The other one is too.
It was a habit thing, eventhough it was painful, my stress
(07:29):
was high, I had no savings, myfinancial life was terrible, but
it was familiar.
I hate to use the wordcomfortable, but it was.
It's what I've known, it's whatI've always known, and I think
just that familiarity and justbeing comfortable also can keep
you stuck.
And I use this analogy.
(07:49):
Nobody really likes it, but Ilike it.
It's like a kid or like a babyin their poopy diaper, right,
they don't want to be changed,they'd rather just sit in it
sometimes, right, and that'swhat I feel like.
I was feeling like when I had areally bad financial situation.
I just was comfortable.
I didn't want to get out of it.
Chris Hawkins (08:06):
Yeah, in the book , the one thing they talk about
why comfortable, even though itmay not be good for you,
comfortable is comfortable, andthe analogy he uses in there is
we all have a meal.
The analogy he uses in there iswe all have a meal, some meal
that you know how to cook realeasy, real quick.
That's your go-to meal whenyou're short on time or you're
(08:29):
in a hurry or you just don'twant to spend a lot of time
cooking.
There's that one thing that yougo to.
Why?
Because it's the mostcomfortable thing.
It's the thing that you knowthe most.
And I think you're right, brad,even though you know you need
to make some changes.
It's the unknown that makes youuncomfortable.
At least you know how bad it is, or you think you know how bad
(08:50):
it is, and it's weird howsometimes that's the comfortable
position that you'll stay in,versus trying something
different.
Kati Hatfield (08:59):
You can't stretch and grow if you don't at least
try to leave your comfort zone alittle bit.
Ryan Nelson (09:04):
Yeah, I think the one challenge with it, though,
especially for us we never wereto the point where we couldn't
afford the bills.
It was tight.
There were weeks and monthswhere we only had $20 or $30
left in the checking account,but there was never a point
where we really hit a pointwhere we couldn't afford
anything.
So, going back to what you said, brad, is it's easy to stay
(09:25):
there because it's familiar.
I, technically, am affordingeverything.
Yeah, it's stressful, but I'drather not change it.
I'd rather keep doing what I'mdoing than to kind of like what
you said stink at something new,try something new, get out of
your comfort zone, especiallywhen you can afford.
When you can afford things,it's easier to change, because
now it's like something's got tochange.
We got to change something nowBecause we are in a in a spot,
(09:47):
but it's in.
It's to a lot of those peoplewhere you're just that monthly
grind of paycheck to paycheckyeah, you're affording life, but
it's a lot of stress, a lot ofmisery.
I think it's a lot easier tolike go back to old habits and
just keep doing what you'redoing because, technically,
you're not hitting rock bottomyet.
Brad Nelson (10:04):
Yeah, yeah, I've heard that before where they say
you know self-developmentpeople or any lot of books that
you'll read, they'll say we'redoing okay, is one of the most
dangerous places that you can be, because you get complacent and
you do, you get comfortable andyou don't want to make any
changes.
And I would be willing to bet alot of the people that we work
with, especially here atDeferredad, are probably some of
(10:24):
those individuals.
And then what ends up happeningis a life event happens and all
of a sudden we're doing okayAll of a sudden turns into now
it's a crisis, I lost my job, Iwas sick, I lost income, I got
behind on bills.
They're basically just gettingby enough and then all of a
sudden something happens whereit triggers them to want to make
a change.
(10:44):
The other thing I want to do,too, is hit on where Katie was
talking earlier, when she wasmentioning that she's paid off
over $222,000 in debt.
Katie, you had mentionedsupport and, when you joined
Roots, how that really helpedyou.
You paid $22,000 of debt off byyourself, but then you joined
Deferredad and Roots and gotinside of a community.
So I'd like to hit on how thatreally, I guess, helped you push
(11:08):
the gas pedal down a little bitmore versus doing it on your
own.
Kati Hatfield (11:11):
Well, when it was just me on my own, I was
embarrassed.
I didn't want to tell myfriends or my family that, hey,
I am not really sure if I'mgoing to pay rent or my credit
card bill this month, because inmy head, I had to pay the
credit card bill, so my creditscores stayed nice and high
(11:33):
which it wasn't even that highto begin with, because I was
really bad at debt and so when Ihad accountability with other
people in a community that havealso gotten into debt and are
trying to get out of debt andare just trying new, different
ways of thinking and newbehaviors, it was just so much
(11:54):
easier to be like oh okay, soI'm not the only one struggling,
I'm not the only one feelingall this pressure and like
trying to keep appearances toeverybody else, like it is hard
work to keep that mask up.
Chris Hawkins (12:09):
So, speaking of that, I've done financial
coaching, brad.
You've done financial coaching,still doing it, obviously.
But one thing that shocked mewas the number of times that I
heard people who would admitthey had $60,000, $70,000,
$100,000 worth of credit carddebt.
It happened more often than youthink and, of course, as a
financial coach, in the back ofyour mind it's like holy smokes,
(12:31):
how does somebody do that?
But then, the second time Iheard it, the third time I heard
it, the fourth time I heard it,it's like I began to expect it.
And so, katie, I'm curious iswhen you got into Roots, did you
find that there were otherpeople who had large amounts of
debt like yourself?
And I don't want to say it madeyou feel comfortable, but made
(12:51):
you see that this is doable andyou're not alone.
Kati Hatfield (12:54):
Yes, and when I saw other people, they're like I
have $10,000 in debt, I'm likethat's like nothing.
You should be over this in likeno time.
But I also had to think okay,I've got a lot in front of me.
When I wrote that number down,it was literally made me sick to
my stomach of how much debt wasaccumulated.
(13:15):
Plus it was accumulatinginterest on top of that.
So even though I was making theminimum payments on everything,
that gets you nowhere.
I had to really figure outwhere to put more money or get
more money, like taking on gigjobs or a second job to have
more income, because I only madeso much at my day job, so I had
(13:37):
to sell stuff and you just haveto come up with other ways.
You have to be creative.
So, like what was not working,I had to change.
Chris Hawkins (13:48):
So by being in the group that helped you
realize that you're not alone,Is that correct?
Kati Hatfield (13:53):
Yes, absolutely.
There were running buddies.
Like I had a couple of gals atthe time that I just looked up
to them like, okay, they havethis much and they're getting it
done.
So like I don't feel quite soon my own.
Brad Nelson (14:07):
Yeah Well, it makes a huge difference and people
will often ask they'll say, howare these people able to do this
?
And this is the answer you guys, it is just the power of
accountability.
That is it Support andaccountability.
Like Katie, you probablyweren't doing anything massively
different when you did it onyour own versus doing it in the
group, but you had thataccountability and support.
So it keeps your feet to thefire, it keeps you accountable,
(14:29):
it keeps you doing it whenyou're on your own.
You can be very loosey-gooseybecause we are terrible
accountability partners toourselves, and this is a stat we
often share in our Life WithoutPayments workshop that we do
about every three months or so.
But the American Society ofTraining and Development
actually did a study onaccountability.
They found that people are 65%more likely to reach a goal in
whatever goal they have in theirlife with an accountability
(14:51):
partner.
But if they have an ongoingaccountability meeting meaning
they have to show up to ameeting where someone's going to
hold them accountable for doingthe actions that they said that
they were going to do thatnumber jumps up to 95%
likelihood that they're going tocomplete that goal.
So at the end of the day, it'snot about always just trying
harder.
It's really about gettingyourself the right support and
(15:13):
environment.
And we see that all the time inRoots Heck.
If you guys listen to some ofour Roots members who come on
this podcast and they share whatthey've done, many of them
actually all of them say I neverwould have believed I could pay
off this much debt.
But the real secret is justthat they had support and
accountability.
We held their feet to the fire.
We told them like hey, you saidyou're going to do this, let's
(15:34):
do it.
And they're doing it now andthat's it.
Kati Hatfield (15:36):
It's just consistency, discipline and just
doing it day in and day out andalso it's not a judgmental
environment because you're notsaying, oh, you didn't do what
you said you were going to dolast week.
Life happens and things come up, but it's just that reminder
like, hey, we're here for you.
If you know you fell off thewagon for a week or a month or
(15:58):
whatever.
You, you know what to do.
Just get back on, brushyourself off, get back on the
right track and it's okay.
I have fallen off and gotten offtrack more times than I can
count in the last seven years.
You know what the right thingis.
You just have to sometimes stopyourself and go okay, put the
money back.
(16:19):
Don't hit submit on that onlineorder.
Do you really need this?
Is it just a want?
Is it an impulse?
It's just making differentdecisions and then celebrating
the wins.
This week, I have not gonegrocery shopping and I've just
eaten what's in my fridge and mypantry.
Sometimes those are the wins.
(16:39):
It doesn't even just have to be.
I've paid off so much in debt.
It's what didn't I do to savemyself that money?
Brad Nelson (16:46):
Right.
Well, it kind of goes back towhat Chris said, too, about you
didn't feel alone.
If you think about when youstarted anything new, think
about when you started yourfirst day of freshman year of
high school.
That's a scary time, but youalso have a bunch of other kids
that are also starting new aswell.
Like, there's camaraderie there, there's connection.
You guys have something incommon, right?
(17:07):
Or even, let's say, you start anew job and there's multiple
new people that are starting.
You're all going throughtraining together.
It feels less overwhelming whenyou have people around you in
the same position as you are,versus you having to do
everything by yourself andyou're the new person, right.
I think that makes just a hugedifference, especially when
you're talking about somethingas sensitive as finances, where
(17:27):
there's a lot of shame andembarrassment and people feel
somewhat dumb that they don'tknow what they're supposed to be
doing or they don't have alltheir stuff figured out.
Those emotions can really keepyou stuck as well.
Ryan Nelson (17:37):
You are what you hang around, and I think, when
it comes to support andaccountability, I mean, if you
want to just test this, go toyour family and friends tomorrow
and tell them all that you wantto get out of debt and then
report back and let us know whatthey say.
I guarantee you most of themare going to laugh call you
crazy.
I called my brother crazy fordoing it.
It's just a natural reaction.
(17:59):
No-transcript to the mall andgo do all these things.
(18:32):
There's a high chance that youare going to just follow them
and you're going to maybe makesome progress for a month or two
and you'll go right back todoing what you're doing and then
you'll try it again and you'llnever do anything.
You've got to get around peopleconsistently that are trying to
do this and you will start toadopt that mindset and start to
think differently and startsaying no to your friends will
be easier than it is right now.
Brad Nelson (18:54):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I lost.
I wouldn't say I lost, butobviously relationships weakened
when I got out of debt.
It just, but obviouslyrelationships weakened when I
got out of debt.
They just did.
Because it was very similar towhat you just said, right, some
of the people I was hanging outwith it was causing me to spend
money that I didn't have and Icouldn't keep up anymore.
So, either I had to make achoice, like, if I want to do
this, I can't keep doing thisstuff anymore, and so I had to
start saying no a lot.
(19:15):
And because I said no a lot,guess what I?
I got less and less invited toa lot of those things and, over
time, those relationships, theyjust didn't stay like they were.
But honestly, at the end of theday I didn't really lose out
too much.
But that's something you doneed to think about.
You do have to take a stand foryour financial life and say
this just doesn't align with myfinancial goals anymore, and
sometimes relationships mightsuffer, but at the end of the
(19:37):
day, I think you're going tolook back and say it was worth
it.
Ryan Nelson (19:40):
And you'll be surprised at some of those
people that will come back andsay you know, hey, can you help,
can you help me?
Because we had that happen.
We did it and we had somepeople that we've had friends
and family that started askinglike, how did you do it?
And now you're kind of startingto pay it forward to other
people who also thought you werecrazy at first Like again my
(20:01):
brother who I thought he wascrazy and then after a while
it's like, oh, this kind ofworks, because at first it's
just so foreign.
You're like this is just it'snot going to work.
But when you start seeing itwork, then you just have a
mindset shift.
Chris Hawkins (20:13):
The important thing is to open up.
You've got to be willing to putit all out there, and
oftentimes to a new group,somebody different, and that's
temporarily.
Like Ryan said, you may losesome friends or some family
temporarily, but you'd besurprised it's happened to me as
well.
How many people come back laterand go hey, how did you do that
?
And people watch.
(20:34):
They may not always saysomething, but the next thing
you know they're following yourlead, doing some of the very
same things that you're doing orhave done simply because of
your actions.
And you have an opportunity toreally influence a lot of other
people when you make it throughit.
But that does mean opening upto a new group of people and
sharing information.
(20:54):
That can be shameful and makeyou feel like you're terrible,
but you're not.
You're normal, You're average.
And if you want to go and begreat and get out of debt and do
the same things that we're ableto do, finding a group, an
accountability group, will go along way and then I think in the
long run you're going to findthat you influence a lot of
(21:15):
people that you didn't realizethat you were doing so.
Kati Hatfield (21:18):
And I think we just want to point out in case
you are new to the podcast Ryanis Brad's brother, so if you
didn't catch that relation he'stalking about.
Thank, you.
Thank you.
Brad Nelson (21:30):
All right, guys, if you're ready to break free from
living paycheck to paycheck,you want to reduce financial
stress, build savings andfinally pay off debt for good.
But again, maybe you're notsure where to get started.
Maybe you feel stuck, just likewe talked about in today's
episode.
Don't worry, we've got youcovered.
Simplify my Money is sent toyou each and every Sunday, to
your email, and it's going to beyour step-by-step roadmap to
better financial control.
You're also going to learn someeasy to follow strategies to
(21:52):
manage your money moreeffectively stress-free money
decisions that are going to helpyou simplify your financial
life with proven tips thatactually work for normal people,
and you're going to gain thetools and confidence to tackle
your financial goals head on.
You can sign up for Simplify myMoney by clicking the link at
the top of the show notes.
Chris Hawkins (22:12):
Let's talk about that baby, let's talk about your
money.
Let's talk about all the goodthings, all the bad things that
may be.
Let's talk about that.
Let's talk about that.
Tune into Dead, free Dance Tuneinto Dead Free Dance.
Brad Nelson (22:33):
All right, guys.
That sound means it's time forthe celebrations of the show,
and today we're kicking off withLauren.
Lauren says today I went intoone of my favorite stores just
to see what they had.
I went up and down the aislesnever feeling the need to
purchase anything, happy to havewalked out empty handed and no
purchase.
Regrets Lauren man, you aretesting your behavior on that.
(22:54):
One Great job, great win,awesome.
And Mary says you are testingyour behavior on that.
One Great job, great win,awesome.
Chris Hawkins (22:57):
And Mary says this is the month of no N-O.
No, she's got several thingsgoing on, so there's no room to
add anything new.
Brad Nelson (23:07):
Yeah, no is a complete sentence.
I like that Way to go, mary.
Kati Hatfield (23:10):
And Vanessa definitely separating her
financial planning from hereveryday planning has helped so
much.
She loves paper planners, buthaving all of it together was
just not working.
So the debt free dad planner ismuch more involved than just a
bill, name and amount on acalendar.
So glad she bought it.
(23:30):
It is a game changer for sure.
I have that and I have beenusing it for years and it is
awesome.
Brad Nelson (23:37):
All right, guys.
As always, congratulations toall of you guys who are taking a
stand for your financial lifeand you're wanting better.
Hey, we get that.
Getting out of debt isn't easy,but with our help and with your
consistency and discipline, wepromise you guys, this will be
some of the best work that youguys do in your entire life.
Thanks for joining us ontoday's show and we will see you
guys on the next episode.
Announcer (24:01):
Thanks for listening to the Debt-Free Dad podcast.
Connect with us on Facebook,tiktok, youtube and Instagram.
Just search Debt-Free Dad.
If you found value in today'sepisode, please leave us a
rating and review.
We so appreciate it.
For resources, show notes andlinks mentioned in today's show
visit debtfreedadcom.
(24:21):
Catch you next week.
All right, so you've read all the books,
you've watched the YouTubevideos, you've downloaded the
budget templates, but why doesit still feel like nothing is
really changing for you?
Now, if you've ever thought Iknow what I should be doing with
my money, I just can't seem todo it.
Well, this episode is going tobe perfect for you.
Today, we're going to be divinginto the real reason most
people stay stuck and spoileralert it's not a lack of
(00:23):
information.
It's all about behavior, habitsand really the stuff that
happens between your ears, andonce you understand what's
really holding you back, you canfinally get out of your own way
.
So let's break it down.
Announcer (00:37):
You're listening to the Debt-Free Dad Podcast with
Brad Nelson.
Brad and his co-hostsexperience the anxiety of living
paycheck to paycheck beforelearning the fundamentals of
financial success.
They are now on a mission toempower regular people to pay
off their debt for good andenjoy happier, less stressful
lives.
Keep listening forinspirational interviews, tips,
(00:59):
tricks and practical advice togain financial freedom.
Brad Nelson (01:07):
Hey guys, welcome to gain financial freedom.
Hey guys, welcome to today'sshow.
My name is Brad Nelson.
I'm the founder of Debt-FreeDebt.
I paid off about $45,000 indebt.
I've been debt-free now formore than 12 years and I've also
been fortunate to helpthousands of other people save
and pay off tens of millions ofdollars with the work that we do
here at Debt-Free Debt.
Chris Hawkins (01:22):
And my name is Chris Hawkins, and my wife and I
started our journey way back 20years ago, almost 2005.
And we have been debt-freesince 2008.
Kati Hatfield (01:33):
And I'm Katie Hatfield and I am still on my
journey to debt freedom, but inthe last almost seven years I
have paid off $222,604 in debton a single income.
Ryan Nelson (01:49):
And my name is Ryan Nelson.
My wife and I paid off about$160,000 over eight years while
we were raising three kids.
Katie, did you?
Brad Nelson (01:57):
say $202,000?
.
Kati Hatfield (01:59):
Two, two, two $222,000.
Brad Nelson (02:03):
What happened over the last I mean, it was at like
below $2,000 for a while Did you, I mean $200,000,.
Kati Hatfield (02:08):
Yeah, I have been working really hard.
Let's see my annual bonus taxrefund.
I've just been plugging away.
Brad Nelson (02:16):
Dang getting after it.
Chris Hawkins (02:17):
I love that Every time I hear her give the number
.
It keeps going up I know.
Kati Hatfield (02:31):
Listen, I hate to say this, but I'm like what the
hell did she buy to go thatmuch right?
Well, let's see, there are acouple of medical bills, two
college student loans, um bunchof credit cards, uh, several
cars that I had negative equitythat I rolled over.
Brad Nelson (02:39):
It's just a lot of poor decisions and behaviors
which is what we're going to befocusing on today.
And, guys, after listening tothis episode, if you guys want
to take things to the next level, if you're ready to break free
from living paycheck to paycheck, you would like to be like
Katie, paying off $200,000 plus.
You want to reduce financialstress, build your savings,
(02:59):
finally pay off debt for good.
But, again, maybe you're notsure where exactly to start.
We've created some incrediblefree resources here at Debt Free
Dad to help you get there, andwe'll be sharing some details
about some of those later on intoday's episode.
So, as I mentioned, we'retalking about how to get on
stock with your finances, and alot of people tend to focus on
just learning education right,and not that that's a bad thing.
(03:22):
Education is important.
We've all had to start thereand figure this out, but I think
in today's day and age, withthe internet, especially with
the popularity now and thegrowing popularity of AI and all
of that information isn'treally the problem, and I would
really like to hit on what youguys feel about this, because we
all had to learn somethingabout this to get out of debt,
(03:44):
but I can pretty much guaranteethat all of us it wasn't really
the education.
That was the real issue.
It was doing it.
That was really the hard part,right.
Kati Hatfield (03:52):
Absolutely, I would say.
For me it was definitely thebehaviors I read Dave Ramsey I
got out of.
Let's see, I paid off $22,000before I ever joined Roots on my
own, but my problem was I wasstill charging to my credit
cards and so you have to stopdigging the hole so you can
(04:14):
finally get out of the hole.
That was definitely something,but I knew all the things, but I
had to learn something new andhave the accountability that
your program provides.
That definitely was the switchthat had to flip in my brain.
Chris Hawkins (04:31):
For me, it was overcomplicating things a couple
of times, almost too muchinformation, trying to be too
sophisticated, thinking that ifI did everything X, y and Z
perfectly, then it should bereally simple.
And it is simple, but it's hard.
If that makes sense, okay, butfor me it was overcomplicating
things and I had to learn thatI'm not the only one and that
(04:57):
you are going to get stuck.
Nobody's going to go throughthis perfectly.
I did a podcast episode, Ithink, last year the financial
roadmap that everybody's goingto go through, and I talked
about this a lot.
There are going to be timeswhere you go back to step number
one and you have to be willingto keep trying I think that's a
big part of it and learn fromyour own mistakes.
And eventually it took me twiceto learn that, hey, maybe I
(05:19):
shouldn't overcomplicate things,Keep it simple, and it makes it
a lot easier.
Ryan Nelson (05:25):
I think this episode applies to life.
So I've been suffering justI'll give you kind of a personal
story.
I've been suffering withplantar fasciitis for a couple
of years and so a few months agoI finally went to the doctor.
I'm like, okay, I've had enough, I'm going to go to the doctor.
He gave me all the information.
There's everything you need todo, and if you do all these
things, it'll get better.
I don't want to do it, and Ithink that that's the reality
(05:47):
for a lot of people.
Now I started to do it andguess what happened?
It started to get better, butthat first month and a half or
whatever and it was the same waywith debt.
I wanted to get better with mydebt, but I didn't want to do
the work.
I don't want to do what'snecessary to get better in my
finances, or and you just kindof take this and you can really
(06:07):
apply this to a lot of yourareas in your life it's like a
lot of people want to do thething that they want.
It's like this is the goal, thisis where I want to get to, but
then when you show them all thecrap they got to do to get there
, I don't want to do all that, Ijust want to get there.
(06:28):
You know they want the magicpill.
I want the magic pill.
It's going to make my feet feelbetter.
Because he said, well, we cangive you a shot.
And I've been denying itbecause I know if he gives me
the shot, it's going to make methink it feels better and I'm
definitely not going to do thework.
So it's like I've been avoidingto get that.
So I just think this is just agood episode, not just for your
finances, but for anything inyour life.
You know, if you want something, you got to be willing to do
all the crap that nobody'swilling to do to get there.
Brad Nelson (06:45):
Yeah, you know there was two things that really
kept me stuck from gettingstarted as number one and this
is still even applicable todayis that I hate stinking and
sucking at things.
I just hate it.
Like when you start anythingnew, you're not good at any of
it.
You're kind of dumb yeah, youdon't, you're just not good at
(07:07):
it and I hate that feeling.
I hate it.
But the only way to really getgood at it is, unfortunately,
you got to start right.
I think that's what kept mestuck for a while is that I just
I didn't want to suck at it.
I find myself stuck at some ofthose things even today, at 45
years old.
You know that I just don't wantto have that feeling that I'm
not good at something.
The other one is too.
It was a habit thing, eventhough it was painful, my stress
(07:29):
was high, I had no savings, myfinancial life was terrible, but
it was familiar.
I hate to use the wordcomfortable, but it was.
It's what I've known, it's whatI've always known, and I think
just that familiarity and justbeing comfortable also can keep
you stuck.
And I use this analogy.
(07:49):
Nobody really likes it, but Ilike it.
It's like a kid or like a babyin their poopy diaper, right,
they don't want to be changed,they'd rather just sit in it
sometimes, right, and that'swhat I feel like.
I was feeling like when I had areally bad financial situation.
I just was comfortable.
I didn't want to get out of it.
Chris Hawkins (08:06):
Yeah, in the book , the one thing they talk about
why comfortable, even though itmay not be good for you,
comfortable is comfortable, andthe analogy he uses in there is
we all have a meal.
The analogy he uses in there iswe all have a meal, some meal
that you know how to cook realeasy, real quick.
That's your go-to meal whenyou're short on time or you're
(08:29):
in a hurry or you just don'twant to spend a lot of time
cooking.
There's that one thing that yougo to.
Why?
Because it's the mostcomfortable thing.
It's the thing that you knowthe most.
And I think you're right, brad,even though you know you need
to make some changes.
It's the unknown that makes youuncomfortable.
At least you know how bad it is, or you think you know how bad
(08:50):
it is, and it's weird howsometimes that's the comfortable
position that you'll stay in,versus trying something
different.
Kati Hatfield (08:59):
You can't stretch and grow if you don't at least
try to leave your comfort zone alittle bit.
Ryan Nelson (09:04):
Yeah, I think the one challenge with it, though,
especially for us we never wereto the point where we couldn't
afford the bills.
It was tight.
There were weeks and monthswhere we only had $20 or $30
left in the checking account,but there was never a point
where we really hit a pointwhere we couldn't afford
anything.
So, going back to what you said, brad, is it's easy to stay
(09:25):
there because it's familiar.
I, technically, am affordingeverything.
Yeah, it's stressful, but I'drather not change it.
I'd rather keep doing what I'mdoing than to kind of like what
you said stink at something new,try something new, get out of
your comfort zone, especiallywhen you can afford.
When you can afford things,it's easier to change, because
now it's like something's got tochange.
We got to change something nowBecause we are in a in a spot,
(09:47):
but it's in.
It's to a lot of those peoplewhere you're just that monthly
grind of paycheck to paycheckyeah, you're affording life, but
it's a lot of stress, a lot ofmisery.
I think it's a lot easier tolike go back to old habits and
just keep doing what you'redoing because, technically,
you're not hitting rock bottomyet.
Brad Nelson (10:04):
Yeah, yeah, I've heard that before where they say
you know self-developmentpeople or any lot of books that
you'll read, they'll say we'redoing okay, is one of the most
dangerous places that you can be, because you get complacent and
you do, you get comfortable andyou don't want to make any
changes.
And I would be willing to bet alot of the people that we work
with, especially here atDeferredad, are probably some of
(10:24):
those individuals.
And then what ends up happeningis a life event happens and all
of a sudden we're doing okayAll of a sudden turns into now
it's a crisis, I lost my job, Iwas sick, I lost income, I got
behind on bills.
They're basically just gettingby enough and then all of a
sudden something happens whereit triggers them to want to make
a change.
(10:44):
The other thing I want to do,too, is hit on where Katie was
talking earlier, when she wasmentioning that she's paid off
over $222,000 in debt.
Katie, you had mentionedsupport and, when you joined
Roots, how that really helpedyou.
You paid $22,000 of debt off byyourself, but then you joined
Deferredad and Roots and gotinside of a community.
So I'd like to hit on how thatreally, I guess, helped you push
(11:08):
the gas pedal down a little bitmore versus doing it on your
own.
Kati Hatfield (11:11):
Well, when it was just me on my own, I was
embarrassed.
I didn't want to tell myfriends or my family that, hey,
I am not really sure if I'mgoing to pay rent or my credit
card bill this month, because inmy head, I had to pay the
credit card bill, so my creditscores stayed nice and high
(11:33):
which it wasn't even that highto begin with, because I was
really bad at debt and so when Ihad accountability with other
people in a community that havealso gotten into debt and are
trying to get out of debt andare just trying new, different
ways of thinking and newbehaviors, it was just so much
(11:54):
easier to be like oh okay, soI'm not the only one struggling,
I'm not the only one feelingall this pressure and like
trying to keep appearances toeverybody else, like it is hard
work to keep that mask up.
Chris Hawkins (12:09):
So, speaking of that, I've done financial
coaching, brad.
You've done financial coaching,still doing it, obviously.
But one thing that shocked mewas the number of times that I
heard people who would admitthey had $60,000, $70,000,
$100,000 worth of credit carddebt.
It happened more often than youthink and, of course, as a
financial coach, in the back ofyour mind it's like holy smokes,
(12:31):
how does somebody do that?
But then, the second time Iheard it, the third time I heard
it, the fourth time I heard it,it's like I began to expect it.
And so, katie, I'm curious iswhen you got into Roots, did you
find that there were otherpeople who had large amounts of
debt like yourself?
And I don't want to say it madeyou feel comfortable, but made
(12:51):
you see that this is doable andyou're not alone.
Kati Hatfield (12:54):
Yes, and when I saw other people, they're like I
have $10,000 in debt, I'm likethat's like nothing.
You should be over this in likeno time.
But I also had to think okay,I've got a lot in front of me.
When I wrote that number down,it was literally made me sick to
my stomach of how much debt wasaccumulated.
(13:15):
Plus it was accumulatinginterest on top of that.
So even though I was making theminimum payments on everything,
that gets you nowhere.
I had to really figure outwhere to put more money or get
more money, like taking on gigjobs or a second job to have
more income, because I only madeso much at my day job, so I had
(13:37):
to sell stuff and you just haveto come up with other ways.
You have to be creative.
So, like what was not working,I had to change.
Chris Hawkins (13:48):
So by being in the group that helped you
realize that you're not alone,Is that correct?
Kati Hatfield (13:53):
Yes, absolutely.
There were running buddies.
Like I had a couple of gals atthe time that I just looked up
to them like, okay, they havethis much and they're getting it
done.
So like I don't feel quite soon my own.
Brad Nelson (14:07):
Yeah Well, it makes a huge difference and people
will often ask they'll say, howare these people able to do this
?
And this is the answer you guys, it is just the power of
accountability.
That is it Support andaccountability.
Like Katie, you probablyweren't doing anything massively
different when you did it onyour own versus doing it in the
group, but you had thataccountability and support.
So it keeps your feet to thefire, it keeps you accountable,
(14:29):
it keeps you doing it whenyou're on your own.
You can be very loosey-gooseybecause we are terrible
accountability partners toourselves, and this is a stat we
often share in our Life WithoutPayments workshop that we do
about every three months or so.
But the American Society ofTraining and Development
actually did a study onaccountability.
They found that people are 65%more likely to reach a goal in
whatever goal they have in theirlife with an accountability
(14:51):
partner.
But if they have an ongoingaccountability meeting meaning
they have to show up to ameeting where someone's going to
hold them accountable for doingthe actions that they said that
they were going to do thatnumber jumps up to 95%
likelihood that they're going tocomplete that goal.
So at the end of the day, it'snot about always just trying
harder.
It's really about gettingyourself the right support and
(15:13):
environment.
And we see that all the time inRoots Heck.
If you guys listen to some ofour Roots members who come on
this podcast and they share whatthey've done, many of them
actually all of them say I neverwould have believed I could pay
off this much debt.
But the real secret is justthat they had support and
accountability.
We held their feet to the fire.
We told them like hey, you saidyou're going to do this, let's
(15:34):
do it.
And they're doing it now andthat's it.
Kati Hatfield (15:36):
It's just consistency, discipline and just
doing it day in and day out andalso it's not a judgmental
environment because you're notsaying, oh, you didn't do what
you said you were going to dolast week.
Life happens and things come up, but it's just that reminder
like, hey, we're here for you.
If you know you fell off thewagon for a week or a month or
(15:58):
whatever.
You, you know what to do.
Just get back on, brushyourself off, get back on the
right track and it's okay.
I have fallen off and gotten offtrack more times than I can
count in the last seven years.
You know what the right thingis.
You just have to sometimes stopyourself and go okay, put the
money back.
(16:19):
Don't hit submit on that onlineorder.
Do you really need this?
Is it just a want?
Is it an impulse?
It's just making differentdecisions and then celebrating
the wins.
This week, I have not gonegrocery shopping and I've just
eaten what's in my fridge and mypantry.
Sometimes those are the wins.
(16:39):
It doesn't even just have to be.
I've paid off so much in debt.
It's what didn't I do to savemyself that money?
Brad Nelson (16:46):
Right.
Well, it kind of goes back towhat Chris said, too, about you
didn't feel alone.
If you think about when youstarted anything new, think
about when you started yourfirst day of freshman year of
high school.
That's a scary time, but youalso have a bunch of other kids
that are also starting new aswell.
Like, there's camaraderie there, there's connection.
You guys have something incommon, right?
(17:07):
Or even, let's say, you start anew job and there's multiple
new people that are starting.
You're all going throughtraining together.
It feels less overwhelming whenyou have people around you in
the same position as you are,versus you having to do
everything by yourself andyou're the new person, right.
I think that makes just a hugedifference, especially when
you're talking about somethingas sensitive as finances, where
(17:27):
there's a lot of shame andembarrassment and people feel
somewhat dumb that they don'tknow what they're supposed to be
doing or they don't have alltheir stuff figured out.
Those emotions can really keepyou stuck as well.
Ryan Nelson (17:37):
You are what you hang around, and I think, when
it comes to support andaccountability, I mean, if you
want to just test this, go toyour family and friends tomorrow
and tell them all that you wantto get out of debt and then
report back and let us know whatthey say.
I guarantee you most of themare going to laugh call you
crazy.
I called my brother crazy fordoing it.
It's just a natural reaction.
(17:59):
No-transcript to the mall andgo do all these things.
(18:32):
There's a high chance that youare going to just follow them
and you're going to maybe makesome progress for a month or two
and you'll go right back todoing what you're doing and then
you'll try it again and you'llnever do anything.
You've got to get around peopleconsistently that are trying to
do this and you will start toadopt that mindset and start to
think differently and startsaying no to your friends will
be easier than it is right now.
Brad Nelson (18:54):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I lost.
I wouldn't say I lost, butobviously relationships weakened
when I got out of debt.
It just, but obviouslyrelationships weakened when I
got out of debt.
They just did.
Because it was very similar towhat you just said, right, some
of the people I was hanging outwith it was causing me to spend
money that I didn't have and Icouldn't keep up anymore.
So, either I had to make achoice, like, if I want to do
this, I can't keep doing thisstuff anymore, and so I had to
start saying no a lot.
(19:15):
And because I said no a lot,guess what I?
I got less and less invited toa lot of those things and, over
time, those relationships, theyjust didn't stay like they were.
But honestly, at the end of theday I didn't really lose out
too much.
But that's something you doneed to think about.
You do have to take a stand foryour financial life and say
this just doesn't align with myfinancial goals anymore, and
sometimes relationships mightsuffer, but at the end of the
(19:37):
day, I think you're going tolook back and say it was worth
it.
Ryan Nelson (19:40):
And you'll be surprised at some of those
people that will come back andsay you know, hey, can you help,
can you help me?
Because we had that happen.
We did it and we had somepeople that we've had friends
and family that started askinglike, how did you do it?
And now you're kind of startingto pay it forward to other
people who also thought you werecrazy at first Like again my
(20:01):
brother who I thought he wascrazy and then after a while
it's like, oh, this kind ofworks, because at first it's
just so foreign.
You're like this is just it'snot going to work.
But when you start seeing itwork, then you just have a
mindset shift.
Chris Hawkins (20:13):
The important thing is to open up.
You've got to be willing to putit all out there, and
oftentimes to a new group,somebody different, and that's
temporarily.
Like Ryan said, you may losesome friends or some family
temporarily, but you'd besurprised it's happened to me as
well.
How many people come back laterand go hey, how did you do that
?
And people watch.
(20:34):
They may not always saysomething, but the next thing
you know they're following yourlead, doing some of the very
same things that you're doing orhave done simply because of
your actions.
And you have an opportunity toreally influence a lot of other
people when you make it throughit.
But that does mean opening upto a new group of people and
sharing information.
(20:54):
That can be shameful and makeyou feel like you're terrible,
but you're not.
You're normal, You're average.
And if you want to go and begreat and get out of debt and do
the same things that we're ableto do, finding a group, an
accountability group, will go along way and then I think in the
long run you're going to findthat you influence a lot of
(21:15):
people that you didn't realizethat you were doing so.
Kati Hatfield (21:18):
And I think we just want to point out in case
you are new to the podcast Ryanis Brad's brother, so if you
didn't catch that relation he'stalking about.
Thank, you.
Thank you.
Brad Nelson (21:30):
All right, guys, if you're ready to break free from
living paycheck to paycheck,you want to reduce financial
stress, build savings andfinally pay off debt for good.
But again, maybe you're notsure where to get started.
Maybe you feel stuck, just likewe talked about in today's
episode.
Don't worry, we've got youcovered.
Simplify my Money is sent toyou each and every Sunday, to
your email, and it's going to beyour step-by-step roadmap to
better financial control.
You're also going to learn someeasy to follow strategies to
(21:52):
manage your money moreeffectively stress-free money
decisions that are going to helpyou simplify your financial
life with proven tips thatactually work for normal people,
and you're going to gain thetools and confidence to tackle
your financial goals head on.
You can sign up for Simplify myMoney by clicking the link at
the top of the show notes.
Chris Hawkins (22:12):
Let's talk about that baby, let's talk about your
money.
Let's talk about all the goodthings, all the bad things that
may be.
Let's talk about that.
Let's talk about that.
Tune into Dead, free Dance Tuneinto Dead Free Dance.
Brad Nelson (22:33):
All right, guys.
That sound means it's time forthe celebrations of the show,
and today we're kicking off withLauren.
Lauren says today I went intoone of my favorite stores just
to see what they had.
I went up and down the aislesnever feeling the need to
purchase anything, happy to havewalked out empty handed and no
purchase.
Regrets Lauren man, you aretesting your behavior on that.
(22:54):
One Great job, great win,awesome.
And Mary says you are testingyour behavior on that.
One Great job, great win,awesome.
Chris Hawkins (22:57):
And Mary says this is the month of no N-O.
No, she's got several thingsgoing on, so there's no room to
add anything new.
Brad Nelson (23:07):
Yeah, no is a complete sentence.
I like that Way to go, mary.
Kati Hatfield (23:10):
And Vanessa definitely separating her
financial planning from hereveryday planning has helped so
much.
She loves paper planners, buthaving all of it together was
just not working.
So the debt free dad planner ismuch more involved than just a
bill, name and amount on acalendar.
So glad she bought it.
(23:30):
It is a game changer for sure.
I have that and I have beenusing it for years and it is
awesome.
Brad Nelson (23:37):
All right, guys.
As always, congratulations toall of you guys who are taking a
stand for your financial lifeand you're wanting better.
Hey, we get that.
Getting out of debt isn't easy,but with our help and with your
consistency and discipline, wepromise you guys, this will be
some of the best work that youguys do in your entire life.
Thanks for joining us ontoday's show and we will see you
guys on the next episode.
Announcer (24:01):
Thanks for listening to the Debt-Free Dad podcast.
Connect with us on Facebook,tiktok, youtube and Instagram.
Just search Debt-Free Dad.
If you found value in today'sepisode, please leave us a
rating and review.
We so appreciate it.
For resources, show notes andlinks mentioned in today's show
visit debtfreedadcom.
(24:21):
Catch you next week.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.