March 14, 2024 • 32 mins
In this special Throwback Thursday edition of The Disruptor Podcast, we re-release an episode originally aired in March 2021 with Yolanda Albergottie on her podcast "5 Easy Things."
As we celebrate Women's History Month, join us in revisiting this insightful conversation that explores actionable tips and strategies aimed at advancing women in the workplace.
Drawing from research conducted by IBM's Advanced Business Institute, the episode highlights alarming statistics underscoring the challenges women, particularly women of color, continue to face in corporate America.
Despite the proven benefits of gender diversity at leadership levels, the data reveals systemic barriers and biases that the COVID-19 pandemic has exacerbated.
The 5 “Not So” Easy Steps:
- Pair Bold Thinking with Big Commitments: Emphasizing the importance of treating gender equity as a critical business priority.
- Insist on Making Room: The necessity of asking "Who's missing?" and ensuring diverse voices are included in every aspect of the business.
- Identify Specific Crisis-Related Interventions: Focus on middle management and implement diverse task forces and leadership groups.
- Use Technology to Accelerate Performance: Leverage technology, including AI, to foster innovation and inclusivity and eliminate bias.
- Create a Culture of Intention: Moving beyond programs to cultivating a growth mindset that embraces and amplifies diverse perspectives.
The candid discussion emphasizes the need to move past intentions to measurable actions that hardwire equity into organizational DNA.
John advocates for leaders to act as allies, using their platform to drive cultural change.
Download the full report: Women, leadership, and missed opportunities.
Comments or Questions? Send us a text
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
John Kundtz (00:00):
Welcome to this throwback thursday edition of
the disruptor podcast.
Back in march of twenty twentyone, I had the privilege to be a
guest on your land albergatti'spodcast five easy things.
In honor of woman's historymonth, we are re-releasing the
show five not so easy things todo to create bull breakthroughs
for the advancement of women inthe workplace.
Hope you enjoy the show.
Yolanda Albergottie (00:28):
Hey everybody, welcome back to five
easy things to podcast.
I'm your land, albergatti, yourholes.
So glad to have you on thisjourney where we discover and
explore five actionable tips orhacks to help you live your best
life.
Cannot wait for you for listento my next guest, john, it's so
(00:50):
good to have you here, welcome.
John Kundtz (00:52):
Thank you.
It's great to be here.
This is the first time on apodcast guest.
I'm usually in your shoes and Iam interviewing people for my
podcast, the disruptor so thisshould be a fun sort of a dual
podcasting host experience.
Yolanda Albergottie (01:07):
I love it.
We're flipping this.
Hey, we're disrupting, right,that's what you're at, my
favorite disruptor.
Let me go ahead and telleverybody who you are, what you
do and how they can reach out toyou if they'd like to share.
John Kundtz (01:20):
Thanks, yes, my name is john coins.
I wear a lot of hat.
As I alluded to, I host apodcast show called the
disruptor where we talk aboutdigital disruption and
disruptive events and thingslike that which will tell in
today's discussion.
I do a bunch of mentoring forstartups, do design thinking, or
(01:46):
say, sales coaching for justusing design thinking, and so a
bunch of not for profit andadvisory work, but during the
day I works for it as a salesexecutive for a Large technology
firms, and some what we'regonna talk about today came out
of the research that we've beendoing it at that firm.
Yolanda Albergottie (02:08):
I love it, thank you.
John Kundtz (02:10):
Oh, I didn't tell you how to get a hold of it,
yeah yeah, probably the best wayis linked in when you can just
search for john and my last name, k u n d t z I love it.
Yolanda Albergottie (02:25):
So you and I, we have been having some
amazing conversations for Idon't know, over the past year
or so, actually, and, and justto give full disclosure, john is
one of our dear customers atchucks.
We appreciate your support verymuch.
An act paid your drinkers.
So we share that common andjust an all around really cool
(02:49):
guy, and we got to talk to eachother more because of cove.
So a nice little silver liningfrom cove it and found out we
have Some shared passions andbefore we came on today I was
just talking about how Iconsider john to be an ally.
So this is a conversation I'msuper excited to have.
So share with us what fivethings you're going to talk
(03:12):
about tonight, sure?
John Kundtz (03:15):
I'm going to talk about five unfortunately not so
easy things to do to create bullbreakthroughs for the
advancement of women in theworkplace in particular and in
general.
Yolanda Albergottie (03:28):
So why I love that is because it's so
timely.
So yesterday so as we'rerecording this yesterday was
equal payday and I rememberbeing a young budding feminist
back in the day and it was 69cents to the dollar.
(03:48):
That was the thing.
And here we are, 20 years later, and we're which I'm lap, but
it's not funny, it's a reallypathetic and sad and pathetic.
You're absolutely I'm excitedto dive into the five things, so
why don't you go ahead andstart with your first one?
John Kundtz (04:09):
can I give it just a little bit of background and
context on what, why I thinkthis is important?
If you is that, okay.
Oh yeah, absolutely, because Ijust so you don't think I just
made all this stuff up.
As I mentioned, we have aresearch arm within my firm
called the Institute forBusiness Value, and we did a
(04:30):
study back in 2019 and then weredid it again this year,
focusing on women and issues inthe workplace and and, by way,
we're happy to share the actualreport that came out that's 25
or six pages as part of the shownotes but we interviewed almost
(04:51):
3,000 executives, both men andwomen, within 10 industries,
nine countries, and we followedup from the study we did in 2019
.
We did this all, or basically,relatively recently, so we did
it the fourth quarter of lastyear and ended up this year.
What really hit me, and one ofthe reasons I wanted to talk, to
(05:12):
talk about the five things wecan do, is because I want to
make sure people are aware ofall the things that sort of
impacting it, and a lot of youwill reference this In COVID in
2020, it hit everybody, but itreally hit women and women of
color and Hispanic women evenharder.
There's some statistics just ofrolling your head.
(05:35):
As we try to go talk about howwe fix some of the.
I have some ideas the fivethings we can try to do One.
5 million US women lost or leftthe job force in 2020.
86% of Hispanic women haveexperienced discrimination
because of their ethnicity, 70%because of their gender.
Black women are paid 38% lessthan white men and 21% less than
(06:00):
white women.
Hispanic women must work 23months to earn what white men
earn in 12.
And what's really unfortunateis women of color hold just one
in 25 C level roles withinorganizations, and the other
thing is what's also so contraryis that, if you do the research
(06:21):
, organizations with the mostwomen at the top can potentially
deliver higher shareperformance and profits in
organizations with less, andsometimes it's nearly 50% higher
.
So we've got this statisticsthat suggest that having a
(06:41):
diverse and balanced,particularly C suite or
executive suite will drivebetter shareholder value and
it'll bring more money and thecompanies will be more
successful.
But then, on the other hand, wehave these dismal statistics,
and so that's why I thought itwould be valuable to talk about
(07:02):
the five things we can do to tryto have CREATE breakthrough
advancements.
Yolanda Albergottie (07:07):
So I love it.
So I'm going to interrupt youbefore you dive in, because
something that I think ispivotal, right.
So we've neared a lot aboutdiversity and so we hear that
term thrown around a lot, butwhat I noticed you said was
(07:28):
balance, and I think that adifferent dialogue, that's a
different verbiage that gives adifferent meaning of feeling to
it.
In other words, it is out ofbalance when there are only old
white men.
It's out of balance, right.
And so when you have thatbalance, of course your company
(07:49):
is going to do better, course,sales will be better, of course
all those things, because youhave balance right.
It's like what I love in wineand beer.
I love balance.
John Kundtz (07:58):
Well, and you're going to get better, more and
better.
I guess I don't know if that'svery good English, but you're
going to get a lot more ideasand they're going to be more
innovative because and insteadof even because, if you just
have the same people looking atthe same thing, you're just
going to get the same idea.
So by having a diverse andbalanced organization or group,
(08:24):
you're going to have ideas thatyou can.
You're going to have a lot ofapplying design thinking.
When you start like reallydigging into what people do and
feel and say and think and youget empathy with them and you
start to get do idea generationswith large groups of people,
you can get some.
That's how you come up with thebreakthrough ideas, and so
that's actually your point, Ithink, is why the statistics lay
(08:45):
out that these organizationsthat have this have a good
balance and good diversity, havebetter bottom lines.
That's simple.
Yolanda Albergottie (08:53):
I love it.
Okay, I'm going to dive in.
What's the thing?
John Kundtz (08:57):
All right, number one, step one we call it pair
bold thinking with bigcommitments, and so what we mean
by that is you want to treatgender equity and diversity as
though your business survivaldepends on it.
So you and this actually goesback to my mantra and this sort
of the stuff that I've beenpitching on the disruptor, which
(09:19):
is you're.
We're in a period of greatdisruption today, and it's
digital, right, it's all.
Everything's moving quickly,and so I at least like to say
you're either being disrupted oryou're the disruptor, right.
In other words, you are eitherNetflix or your blockbuster,
you're the taxi cab industry, oryou're Uber or Lyft, and so
(09:42):
your business is going to dependon being disrupted, or either
responding to disruption orbecoming a disruptor.
So it just sits right in.
Make it a top formal businesspriority and then defend success
with clear and concrete terms.
So, just, I think some of the Ididn't go into the reasons, but
(10:05):
one of the reasons is we have alot of programs and not a lot of
actions.
In other words, we have a lotof.
Go to this seminar, take thisclass, learn this right, check
this box right.
Oh, do your business conductguidelines.
There's a whole section onthere I'm being.
You can't say bad things, youcan't bully, you can't bust,
right, but we don't actuallydefine it as in clear and
(10:29):
concrete.
And then the last is driveaccountability and don't settle
for acknowledges.
Going back to what I said,where people just acknowledge oh
yeah, I went to that diversityclass and I took that training
right, nobody thinks this is abad idea, but they don't
actually do anything, so theydon't care.
Big thinking, bold thinkingwith big commitments, that's
(10:51):
number one.
Yolanda Albergottie (10:52):
Yeah, so that's that disruptor thing,
yeah.
John Kundtz (10:56):
And giving managers across the business goal
measurable goals.
You and I were talking aboutthis before we started.
You got to be able to see stuffbefore you can measure it.
So part of what we're trying todo and this is not necessarily
the most comfortable thing I'veever done is talking about this
subject, because I'm one ofthese old white guys and it's
(11:17):
part of the problem, or I mightmy tribe's or whatever.
Hopefully I'm not, yes, but thereality.
Yolanda Albergottie (11:28):
Yeah, I mean exactly.
John Kundtz (11:29):
But so you got to give people stuff.
First you got to be aware andsee the problem.
Then you got to be able tomeasure the problem, because you
can't measure what you can'tsee and you can't fix what you
can't measure One of my othermantras.
So that's number one.
We on to number two.
Yolanda Albergottie (11:46):
We are, whenever you're ready, ok by the
way.
John Kundtz (11:49):
I love this format.
I think this is fantastic.
This five, five, anyway.
Number two insist on makingroom.
And so what?
What we mean by that is and I,I subconsciously had done this
and now I do it more consciously, but it's it's make it a mantra
to ask who's missing.
(12:09):
I'm in the technology businessand we're pretty good, I would
say, at the management level.
But when we get down into theraw technology world part of the
business, the engineers, theprogrammers, the architects it's
about a 90 to 10 ratio of mento women, and as part of that
(12:29):
whole different conversation wecould have on that, but make it
a mantra to like who's not inthis meeting or who's not in
this room.
And then you have to adoptpractices to make sure diverse
voices and points of view areincluded, and that's.
That goes back to what I talkedbefore.
If you get a good grouptogether, you're going to get
(12:50):
some great ideas.
You're going to get innovativeideas, things to improve,
because you're going to get awider spectrum of viewpoints, if
you will.
Yeah, the second then leads intoyou've got to set the rules of
engagement, so you've got torequire that your business
(13:11):
partners are aligned with yourorganizational commitment.
You've got to get everybody inthe supply chain, if you will,
or the food chain, to commit toimproving diversity and gender
equity.
And then the way you do that is, you will, simple.
You reward the rock stars andhold the line on the others, in
other words, celebrate thosethat operationalize a diverse
(13:31):
and inclusive workforce andremove support for those adults.
So, again, insist on makingroom.
Yolanda Albergottie (13:38):
And another point, because it goes back to
what we were talking about interms of being an ally.
Ok, so part of the ally's jobis to be on the lookout to see
who's missing and then bringthat up to his peers, right?
So that's your ally, is the onewho's defending you and looking
(13:59):
out for you and has your backwhen you're not there, exactly
by your role and those who.
There are other trailblazers,allies who are doing that.
But that's really what makesthat whole number two work.
If having that ally be that oneto say, ok, who's missing, and
now we're going to hold thisteam accountable or not, we're
(14:21):
following through with theincentives and the goals that we
have.
So I love that one, all right.
John Kundtz (14:28):
Number three they're pretty number three
identify specific crisis relatedinterventions.
And the way you do that is youfirst you focus on the middle
right.
So you focus on, like themiddle management right, the
middle tier, not necessarily theentry tier and certainly not
the the.
You certainly want toultimately focus on the C suite
(14:50):
and the board level, but if youfocus on the middle tier, fix
that it's going to propagateupwards as those people get
promoted and it's going topropagate downwards as their
philosophies and just their, theculture and stuff is propagated
down to the people that if youwill work for them, and so you
(15:11):
again we're going to start toget to this notion of you got to
be able to measure stuff.
So you seek solutions todeliver exponential gains.
So you go, and again it's thisagile concept Move quickly,
track performance with data,prioritize the initiatives that
are showing tangible value inthe one, like any other sort of
agile approach, which is goingto technology way of doing
(15:37):
things quickly, inexpensively,and then keeping the good and
getting rid of the bad orpivoting to do better, and then
again.
But it got to show visiblecommitment.
So you got to establish taskforce and leadership groups and
things that you can start toshow measurement and be visible
(15:59):
within the organization.
So that's number three.
Number three, yeah, yeah, okay.
Four.
Number four, number four.
So here's where I get into thestuff that I like is that use
technology to accelerateperformance.
So what you want to do is youwant to surface and validate the
new ideas.
(16:19):
So it's the whole idea of usingthese technologies that are out
there disrupting the rest ofthe world.
And one thing we learned inCOVID is you could do a whole
lot of things that we didn'treally think we could do with a
whole lot of people, withouthaving to get on airplanes and
travel and bring everybody intoconference rooms.
I've facilitated workshopswhere I've done it physically,
(16:44):
where I've gone full and over toEurope and I spend a day trying
to recover.
I run a couple of workshops andI jump on an airplane and I
come home and I have no ideawhat day it is.
But now I can pull people inand I can do surveys and virtual
jams and design thinkingsessions and do all this
brainstorming and crowd sourceand all these sort of disruptive
(17:07):
technologies that are actuallybuilding the Ubers and the
Airbnbs and the Netflix and youname it the world that is
disrupting the technology worldwe can take advantage of those
technologies and use it tosurface and validate the ideas.
So I always like to say separateyour idea generation from your
(17:29):
idea prioritization and judging.
So you generate a lot of ideasand then you judge them and then
you prioritize them and thatallows you to expand your routes
to market.
So you can invest incollaborative tools.
There are lots of collaborativetools like Slack and Zoom and
Trello, and we Is Mural, whichis a sort of really cool Think
(17:51):
of it as a giant whiteboardwhere you would stick sticky
notes but you're doing itelectronically.
We had to encompass all thosetechnologies because of the
pandemic, because we were all ofa sudden working virtually, but
now we can continue to takeadvantage of that stuff and
continue to expand those routesusing these sort of
collaborative tools and thenhardwire fairness into the
(18:15):
screening.
So this one I love becauseanother podcast that I hosted
was a friend of mine, judge RayHedden, and he discovered that
there's a bunch of institutionalracism in the judicial system,
but the problem is he can'tprove it.
It's all subjective and theyknow it's there but nobody has
(18:37):
the data because they neverbother to capture the data.
So this idea is use things likeartificial intelligence to flag
gender and age and ethnicitybiased languages, because a lot
of this stuff we don't dointentional, to be honest, but
some people just don't knowbetter.
(18:57):
Some people do, but I thinkmost people are trying to do the
right things.
They just haven't been madeaware of what they're doing is
maybe not the right verbage orthe right sentence and stuff.
So you can start to use AI tolook at job posts and other
things that you write and allthese kinds of things that could
(19:19):
potentially give this sort ofimplicit bias or truly a sort of
institutional bias that we,like I said, can't fix unless
you can see it and measure it.
So that's the technology pieceof this.
On step four, Two things run.
Yolanda Albergottie (19:39):
I almost feel like the COVID situation
has facilitated the changethat's required to move to that
next level.
So if you think about all ofthe social unrest, the racial
social unrest, it happened insuch a way that now it's in
people's faces in a way that itnever was before and it opened
(20:02):
up this dialogue and thisconversation.
Some authentic things havehappened and this exchange has
been made.
And then you look at with womenin the workforce.
So unfortunately, most womenare penalized for child work.
But if we have this technologythat allows a woman who desires
(20:22):
to be able to be very flexiblein her work and still be able to
be at home and run thatconference, it is the whole
dynamic.
So I love that technology canbe used in a way that can change
things for the better,especially on this particular
(20:42):
topic.
John Kundtz (20:43):
Well and think about it.
Let's just use working fromhome.
For the last year for some ofus, or more, it's all of a
sudden even five years, even ayear ago.
You would be horrified if youwere on a conference call or a
video conference and your dogbarked or your cat walked across
(21:06):
your computer or your kids cameflying into the room or
whatever.
Now we all realize that that'sthe reality of life, because
we've all had to literally pickup and go back home and people
are working in their bathtubsbecause they don't have any
place to make a little desk andthey sit in the bathtub because
(21:26):
they can't work anywhere else,because they got kids.
So the good news about thiswhole mess we've been through is
that now people have seen thehuman side of the workforce, and
so if your kid comes and sitson your lap while you're trying
to have a meeting, nobody reallycares.
It's not that they don't care,it's just a way.
(21:46):
It's like it's okay.
We know you've got kids and weknow you're trying to figure out
how to juggle 17 balls.
So I think a lot of the silverlining in this is that people
all of a sudden have taken thesort of the human-centric view
of the workforce, which intheory, should allow us to be
able to be more flexible.
Right, because at the end ofthe day, especially for
(22:07):
knowledge workers, it'sdifferent if you're doing a
physical, where you've got to beworking, paving a road or
something.
But in most of us who are inthe knowledge working business,
as long as we can get our workdone every day, there's no
reason why you can't take anhour out the middle of the day
to go teach your kid or feedthem Right.
Yolanda Albergottie (22:29):
Whatever Simple things like, oh, so just
I don't want to forget my otherpoint, but I will say that.
So it's simple things like theinfrastructure of childcare.
So childcare should be aninfrastructure in this country
that allows both parentsflexibility, right?
So we've had this problem, andone of the reasons that women
(22:51):
have left the workforce isbecause we do not have an
infrastructure that includeschildcare.
Who's going to put the kids onthe bus?
Who's going to get them off thebus?
Who's going to be with the kidsif they have to stay home at
work?
All this technology helps uslive in a good direction, right?
That's great.
So let me forget my point.
(23:12):
Let me say that because I thinkit's crucial to understand how
you can avoid bias.
So I happened to be in aclubhouse room with someone.
Why?
The family sisters?
We were talking about women inwine, of course.
And so one of the things shesaid in they interview people
(23:32):
no-transcript.
When they look at theirapplications, they don't know
the sex of the applicant.
They don't allow for that to beknown by the people Greetings,
and then someone else in theroom shared that's how some
orchestras now hold theirauditions, and so they will.
(23:53):
They do blind auditions.
They have no idea what the sexor gender is of the person
playing the instrument and whatthey sound surprisingly as they
hire more women and thatinteresting.
So it goes back to what youwere saying this unconscious
bias that people have it allowsfor that to be done away with in
(24:16):
many ways.
So I love the point, that pointthat you brought up.
Okay, if you can remember yourpoint, I didn't mean to
interrupt you, but I knew I wasgoing to forget if I just didn't
.
John Kundtz (24:25):
No, no, no, I'm good, we can go to five if you
want.
Yolanda Albergottie (24:28):
Okay, I'm ready.
John Kundtz (24:30):
So number five is create a culture of intention.
And so this goes back to theidea of you got to move away
from this program mindset.
I need to get a program forthis.
I got a diversity program, Igot this program.
I got to and move away and makeit a growth mindset.
Let's get out of this.
What we've been doing is we'vebeen taking these little baby
(24:52):
steps and we were expecting bigresults and then we're never
going to get them.
So you've got to have a growthmindset.
So you have to have leadershipsacross the business to just
demonstrating inclusiveattitudes and behaviors to drive
the cultural change.
You have to be an amplifier.
So empower all your employees,especially the managers.
(25:13):
That's why we talked aboutworking in the middle, first, to
look for ways that marginalizedvoices can be heard, because
that's the other problem.
We've all been in thesemeetings where there's always
this one big, loud, stupid guywho thinks he knows it all and
he monopolizes the meetingbecause he's big and he talks a
lot.
And then there's always a shy,quiet person in the corner who
(25:35):
has brilliant ideas but to neverget a word in edgewise.
And so again back to ourtechnology.
Now there's all kinds offacilitation and techniques and
co-creation.
Yolanda Albergottie (25:47):
The mute button, honey, that's what it's
called.
John Kundtz (25:49):
There's ways now to facilitate collaboration so all
voices can be heard.
Because you don't have to be inthese meetings.
Like I said, where and again,that's one of the reasons I've
always tried to say whenever Iget into a situation like that,
even in the old days when wewere face to face, I'd say we're
going to do idea generationfirst.
(26:10):
You can't judge, you justgenerate ideas.
We'll do judging separately,and that usually helps.
But now there's technology andother collaboration techniques
and just the ability to workglobally.
I can get people because there'sa global diversity by the way,
which I've learned in my travelsthat I worked in every
(26:33):
continent for business exceptAntarctica and so you get this
cultural diversity which isreally important.
So the way they think aboutstuff in Germany or Finland or
Sweden or South Africa or Brazilor Australia or Japan are all
totally different.
And so bringing those kind ofpeople together again, you can
(26:55):
get this unbelievable wealth ofdifferent ideas that you would
never think of, because yourculture, our culture, would
never even go down there.
We just don't have it, we'venever been exposed to it.
And then the last piece of thiscreate this culture of
intention is you really got tohave and we've just talked about
(27:15):
this you got to have thecourage to embrace the
discomfort.
Believe me, this is not it.
This is a bit of a discomfortdiscussion for me, like I said,
because I'm part of the peoplethat look like me and are my age
and stuff.
Yeah, cause it's probably, yeah,you are.
You got to admit that change ismessy and, as I always say
(27:37):
that's one of my mantras isdisruption is messy.
So you got to admit that it'smessy and you got to commit to
pushing your way through it.
And that's really the, I think.
At the end, like you said, yougot to have this courage to
realize and be able to talkabout uncomfortable things or
things that aren't within yourcomfort zone, cause that's the
(27:59):
only way we're going to allfigure out Again.
Going back to the, you got tosee the problem before you can
measure the problem.
You got to measure the problemin order to fix the problem.
So that is the five things.
Yolanda Albergottie (28:14):
I love it and let me just say you all need
to feel uncomfortable, becausewe can feel uncomfortable for a
long time, so it is your turnnow.
Oh no, I believe you.
John Kundtz (28:25):
Well, it's funny because I got, I've been in
these situations like when I didbusiness in South Africa and I
go down there and I did work inNairobi, kenya, and then I'm all
of a sudden I am in funny andeven as a white man, there are
very few Western US white peopleright, and usually from from
(28:45):
the UK or Europe.
So it was like you had thepeople, you had the Africans,
but then you had the sort of thenext minority was people from
India, because a lot of peoplecome into Africa to work and
then they still have theleftover people from Europe,
mainly UK and maybe the Dutchand stuff but then there's very
(29:08):
few people from the UnitedStates.
Same thing in like Japan, forinstance, even more so, because
all of a sudden I'm only 5'8 andI get in an elevator and I'm
like six inches taller thaneverybody.
It's wow.
So you start to.
If you put yourself in thosesituations globally, you'll
start to understand again someof the things that you guys that
(29:29):
maybe I you take for granted ornot take for granted, but you
experience every day and maybepeople like me are a bit
oblivious or just unfortunatelyaren't paying attention.
So, anyway, those are the fivethings that came out of this
report and, as I said, we werehappy to make this report
available to people to read themore details.
(29:51):
I just gave you the five steps.
Not so easy, unfortunately.
I think they should be easy,but I don't know if they are,
and that's what we're hoping tobe able to create bold
breakthroughs for theadvancement of women in the
workplace.
Yolanda Albergottie (30:07):
I love it.
I love it, and I will put thatlink in the show notes so people
will have access to that.
Thank you so much, john.
So again, tell us how peoplecan reach out to you ransom.
John Kundtz (30:21):
The easiest way is, again, probably through
LinkedIn, and you can.
I have a very unique last nameso you probably can search on
that, but it's really just myfirst name, John, and my last
name KUN Delta Tango Zulu, asthey say in the military.
But LinkedIn has sent me aprivate message.
(30:43):
I'll get you copies of it if we.
I'll probably put somethingdirectly to the corporate
website and the show notes orwe'll figure it out, but anyway,
this has been fun, yolanda.
Yolanda Albergottie (30:56):
Yeah, you know you're going to be back.
You've got stuff to talk about.
John Kundtz (31:00):
And, yeah, this was not our original idea.
I pivoted in the middle ofprepping for this.
Yolanda Albergottie (31:08):
But I love your original idea, so we've got
to have you back on for that.
John Kundtz (31:11):
I'm happy.
Yolanda Albergottie (31:12):
Do our conversation on Clubhouse.
We're going to do that.
John Kundtz (31:15):
Well, you know, while we're doing this, I think
that's let's put a plug in forthat.
So it would be fun and maybeuncomfortable, for me at least
but to have the continue thisconversation, maybe after the
podcast is released or inconjunction of it, so that
people can we can talk liveabout some of these things and
get.
This is, again, not necessarilymy opinion.
(31:37):
I agree with it, but I I'm not.
I didn't make this stuff up, soI'm just the news reporter for
this particular event.
So it'd be very interestingjust to get other people's
perspective and jeed back, andcertainly I'm sure we could even
feed it back to the people thatwrote the stuff.
Yolanda Albergottie (31:55):
I love that idea.
We have a plan that for sureCool.
All right, thank you, sir.
John Kundtz (32:01):
All right the rest of you, thank you.
Yolanda Albergottie (32:03):
All right Cheers.
I just want to say thank you somuch to everybody who's been
listening to the podcast andshowing us mad love and really
appreciating the support.
Welcome to this throwback thursday edition of
the disruptor podcast.
Back in march of twenty twentyone, I had the privilege to be a
guest on your land albergatti'spodcast five easy things.
In honor of woman's historymonth, we are re-releasing the
show five not so easy things todo to create bull breakthroughs
for the advancement of women inthe workplace.
Hope you enjoy the show.
Yolanda Albergottie (00:28):
Hey everybody, welcome back to five
easy things to podcast.
I'm your land, albergatti, yourholes.
So glad to have you on thisjourney where we discover and
explore five actionable tips orhacks to help you live your best
life.
Cannot wait for you for listento my next guest, john, it's so
(00:50):
good to have you here, welcome.
John Kundtz (00:52):
Thank you.
It's great to be here.
This is the first time on apodcast guest.
I'm usually in your shoes and Iam interviewing people for my
podcast, the disruptor so thisshould be a fun sort of a dual
podcasting host experience.
Yolanda Albergottie (01:07):
I love it.
We're flipping this.
Hey, we're disrupting, right,that's what you're at, my
favorite disruptor.
Let me go ahead and telleverybody who you are, what you
do and how they can reach out toyou if they'd like to share.
John Kundtz (01:20):
Thanks, yes, my name is john coins.
I wear a lot of hat.
As I alluded to, I host apodcast show called the
disruptor where we talk aboutdigital disruption and
disruptive events and thingslike that which will tell in
today's discussion.
I do a bunch of mentoring forstartups, do design thinking, or
(01:46):
say, sales coaching for justusing design thinking, and so a
bunch of not for profit andadvisory work, but during the
day I works for it as a salesexecutive for a Large technology
firms, and some what we'regonna talk about today came out
of the research that we've beendoing it at that firm.
Yolanda Albergottie (02:08):
I love it, thank you.
John Kundtz (02:10):
Oh, I didn't tell you how to get a hold of it,
yeah yeah, probably the best wayis linked in when you can just
search for john and my last name, k u n d t z I love it.
Yolanda Albergottie (02:25):
So you and I, we have been having some
amazing conversations for Idon't know, over the past year
or so, actually, and, and justto give full disclosure, john is
one of our dear customers atchucks.
We appreciate your support verymuch.
An act paid your drinkers.
So we share that common andjust an all around really cool
(02:49):
guy, and we got to talk to eachother more because of cove.
So a nice little silver liningfrom cove it and found out we
have Some shared passions andbefore we came on today I was
just talking about how Iconsider john to be an ally.
So this is a conversation I'msuper excited to have.
So share with us what fivethings you're going to talk
(03:12):
about tonight, sure?
John Kundtz (03:15):
I'm going to talk about five unfortunately not so
easy things to do to create bullbreakthroughs for the
advancement of women in theworkplace in particular and in
general.
Yolanda Albergottie (03:28):
So why I love that is because it's so
timely.
So yesterday so as we'rerecording this yesterday was
equal payday and I rememberbeing a young budding feminist
back in the day and it was 69cents to the dollar.
(03:48):
That was the thing.
And here we are, 20 years later, and we're which I'm lap, but
it's not funny, it's a reallypathetic and sad and pathetic.
You're absolutely I'm excitedto dive into the five things, so
why don't you go ahead andstart with your first one?
John Kundtz (04:09):
can I give it just a little bit of background and
context on what, why I thinkthis is important?
If you is that, okay.
Oh yeah, absolutely, because Ijust so you don't think I just
made all this stuff up.
As I mentioned, we have aresearch arm within my firm
called the Institute forBusiness Value, and we did a
(04:30):
study back in 2019 and then weredid it again this year,
focusing on women and issues inthe workplace and and, by way,
we're happy to share the actualreport that came out that's 25
or six pages as part of the shownotes but we interviewed almost
(04:51):
3,000 executives, both men andwomen, within 10 industries,
nine countries, and we followedup from the study we did in 2019
.
We did this all, or basically,relatively recently, so we did
it the fourth quarter of lastyear and ended up this year.
What really hit me, and one ofthe reasons I wanted to talk, to
(05:12):
talk about the five things wecan do, is because I want to
make sure people are aware ofall the things that sort of
impacting it, and a lot of youwill reference this In COVID in
2020, it hit everybody, but itreally hit women and women of
color and Hispanic women evenharder.
There's some statistics just ofrolling your head.
(05:35):
As we try to go talk about howwe fix some of the.
I have some ideas the fivethings we can try to do One.
5 million US women lost or leftthe job force in 2020.
86% of Hispanic women haveexperienced discrimination
because of their ethnicity, 70%because of their gender.
Black women are paid 38% lessthan white men and 21% less than
(06:00):
white women.
Hispanic women must work 23months to earn what white men
earn in 12.
And what's really unfortunateis women of color hold just one
in 25 C level roles withinorganizations, and the other
thing is what's also so contraryis that, if you do the research
(06:21):
, organizations with the mostwomen at the top can potentially
deliver higher shareperformance and profits in
organizations with less, andsometimes it's nearly 50% higher
.
So we've got this statisticsthat suggest that having a
(06:41):
diverse and balanced,particularly C suite or
executive suite will drivebetter shareholder value and
it'll bring more money and thecompanies will be more
successful.
But then, on the other hand, wehave these dismal statistics,
and so that's why I thought itwould be valuable to talk about
(07:02):
the five things we can do to tryto have CREATE breakthrough
advancements.
Yolanda Albergottie (07:07):
So I love it.
So I'm going to interrupt youbefore you dive in, because
something that I think ispivotal, right.
So we've neared a lot aboutdiversity and so we hear that
term thrown around a lot, butwhat I noticed you said was
(07:28):
balance, and I think that adifferent dialogue, that's a
different verbiage that gives adifferent meaning of feeling to
it.
In other words, it is out ofbalance when there are only old
white men.
It's out of balance, right.
And so when you have thatbalance, of course your company
(07:49):
is going to do better, course,sales will be better, of course
all those things, because youhave balance right.
It's like what I love in wineand beer.
I love balance.
John Kundtz (07:58):
Well, and you're going to get better, more and
better.
I guess I don't know if that'svery good English, but you're
going to get a lot more ideasand they're going to be more
innovative because and insteadof even because, if you just
have the same people looking atthe same thing, you're just
going to get the same idea.
So by having a diverse andbalanced organization or group,
(08:24):
you're going to have ideas thatyou can.
You're going to have a lot ofapplying design thinking.
When you start like reallydigging into what people do and
feel and say and think and youget empathy with them and you
start to get do idea generationswith large groups of people,
you can get some.
That's how you come up with thebreakthrough ideas, and so
that's actually your point, Ithink, is why the statistics lay
(08:45):
out that these organizationsthat have this have a good
balance and good diversity, havebetter bottom lines.
That's simple.
Yolanda Albergottie (08:53):
I love it.
Okay, I'm going to dive in.
What's the thing?
John Kundtz (08:57):
All right, number one, step one we call it pair
bold thinking with bigcommitments, and so what we mean
by that is you want to treatgender equity and diversity as
though your business survivaldepends on it.
So you and this actually goesback to my mantra and this sort
of the stuff that I've beenpitching on the disruptor, which
(09:19):
is you're.
We're in a period of greatdisruption today, and it's
digital, right, it's all.
Everything's moving quickly,and so I at least like to say
you're either being disrupted oryou're the disruptor, right.
In other words, you are eitherNetflix or your blockbuster,
you're the taxi cab industry, oryou're Uber or Lyft, and so
(09:42):
your business is going to dependon being disrupted, or either
responding to disruption orbecoming a disruptor.
So it just sits right in.
Make it a top formal businesspriority and then defend success
with clear and concrete terms.
So, just, I think some of the Ididn't go into the reasons, but
(10:05):
one of the reasons is we have alot of programs and not a lot of
actions.
In other words, we have a lotof.
Go to this seminar, take thisclass, learn this right, check
this box right.
Oh, do your business conductguidelines.
There's a whole section onthere I'm being.
You can't say bad things, youcan't bully, you can't bust,
right, but we don't actuallydefine it as in clear and
(10:29):
concrete.
And then the last is driveaccountability and don't settle
for acknowledges.
Going back to what I said,where people just acknowledge oh
yeah, I went to that diversityclass and I took that training
right, nobody thinks this is abad idea, but they don't
actually do anything, so theydon't care.
Big thinking, bold thinkingwith big commitments, that's
(10:51):
number one.
Yolanda Albergottie (10:52):
Yeah, so that's that disruptor thing,
yeah.
John Kundtz (10:56):
And giving managers across the business goal
measurable goals.
You and I were talking aboutthis before we started.
You got to be able to see stuffbefore you can measure it.
So part of what we're trying todo and this is not necessarily
the most comfortable thing I'veever done is talking about this
subject, because I'm one ofthese old white guys and it's
(11:17):
part of the problem, or I mightmy tribe's or whatever.
Hopefully I'm not, yes, but thereality.
Yolanda Albergottie (11:28):
Yeah, I mean exactly.
John Kundtz (11:29):
But so you got to give people stuff.
First you got to be aware andsee the problem.
Then you got to be able tomeasure the problem, because you
can't measure what you can'tsee and you can't fix what you
can't measure One of my othermantras.
So that's number one.
We on to number two.
Yolanda Albergottie (11:46):
We are, whenever you're ready, ok by the
way.
John Kundtz (11:49):
I love this format.
I think this is fantastic.
This five, five, anyway.
Number two insist on makingroom.
And so what?
What we mean by that is and I,I subconsciously had done this
and now I do it more consciously, but it's it's make it a mantra
to ask who's missing.
(12:09):
I'm in the technology businessand we're pretty good, I would
say, at the management level.
But when we get down into theraw technology world part of the
business, the engineers, theprogrammers, the architects it's
about a 90 to 10 ratio of mento women, and as part of that
(12:29):
whole different conversation wecould have on that, but make it
a mantra to like who's not inthis meeting or who's not in
this room.
And then you have to adoptpractices to make sure diverse
voices and points of view areincluded, and that's.
That goes back to what I talkedbefore.
If you get a good grouptogether, you're going to get
(12:50):
some great ideas.
You're going to get innovativeideas, things to improve,
because you're going to get awider spectrum of viewpoints, if
you will.
Yeah, the second then leads intoyou've got to set the rules of
engagement, so you've got torequire that your business
(13:11):
partners are aligned with yourorganizational commitment.
You've got to get everybody inthe supply chain, if you will,
or the food chain, to commit toimproving diversity and gender
equity.
And then the way you do that is, you will, simple.
You reward the rock stars andhold the line on the others, in
other words, celebrate thosethat operationalize a diverse
(13:31):
and inclusive workforce andremove support for those adults.
So, again, insist on makingroom.
Yolanda Albergottie (13:38):
And another point, because it goes back to
what we were talking about interms of being an ally.
Ok, so part of the ally's jobis to be on the lookout to see
who's missing and then bringthat up to his peers, right?
So that's your ally, is the onewho's defending you and looking
(13:59):
out for you and has your backwhen you're not there, exactly
by your role and those who.
There are other trailblazers,allies who are doing that.
But that's really what makesthat whole number two work.
If having that ally be that oneto say, ok, who's missing, and
now we're going to hold thisteam accountable or not, we're
(14:21):
following through with theincentives and the goals that we
have.
So I love that one, all right.
John Kundtz (14:28):
Number three they're pretty number three
identify specific crisis relatedinterventions.
And the way you do that is youfirst you focus on the middle
right.
So you focus on, like themiddle management right, the
middle tier, not necessarily theentry tier and certainly not
the the.
You certainly want toultimately focus on the C suite
(14:50):
and the board level, but if youfocus on the middle tier, fix
that it's going to propagateupwards as those people get
promoted and it's going topropagate downwards as their
philosophies and just their, theculture and stuff is propagated
down to the people that if youwill work for them, and so you
(15:11):
again we're going to start toget to this notion of you got to
be able to measure stuff.
So you seek solutions todeliver exponential gains.
So you go, and again it's thisagile concept Move quickly,
track performance with data,prioritize the initiatives that
are showing tangible value inthe one, like any other sort of
agile approach, which is goingto technology way of doing
(15:37):
things quickly, inexpensively,and then keeping the good and
getting rid of the bad orpivoting to do better, and then
again.
But it got to show visiblecommitment.
So you got to establish taskforce and leadership groups and
things that you can start toshow measurement and be visible
(15:59):
within the organization.
So that's number three.
Number three, yeah, yeah, okay.
Four.
Number four, number four.
So here's where I get into thestuff that I like is that use
technology to accelerateperformance.
So what you want to do is youwant to surface and validate the
new ideas.
(16:19):
So it's the whole idea of usingthese technologies that are out
there disrupting the rest ofthe world.
And one thing we learned inCOVID is you could do a whole
lot of things that we didn'treally think we could do with a
whole lot of people, withouthaving to get on airplanes and
travel and bring everybody intoconference rooms.
I've facilitated workshopswhere I've done it physically,
(16:44):
where I've gone full and over toEurope and I spend a day trying
to recover.
I run a couple of workshops andI jump on an airplane and I
come home and I have no ideawhat day it is.
But now I can pull people inand I can do surveys and virtual
jams and design thinkingsessions and do all this
brainstorming and crowd sourceand all these sort of disruptive
(17:07):
technologies that are actuallybuilding the Ubers and the
Airbnbs and the Netflix and youname it the world that is
disrupting the technology worldwe can take advantage of those
technologies and use it tosurface and validate the ideas.
So I always like to say separateyour idea generation from your
(17:29):
idea prioritization and judging.
So you generate a lot of ideasand then you judge them and then
you prioritize them and thatallows you to expand your routes
to market.
So you can invest incollaborative tools.
There are lots of collaborativetools like Slack and Zoom and
Trello, and we Is Mural, whichis a sort of really cool Think
(17:51):
of it as a giant whiteboardwhere you would stick sticky
notes but you're doing itelectronically.
We had to encompass all thosetechnologies because of the
pandemic, because we were all ofa sudden working virtually, but
now we can continue to takeadvantage of that stuff and
continue to expand those routesusing these sort of
collaborative tools and thenhardwire fairness into the
(18:15):
screening.
So this one I love becauseanother podcast that I hosted
was a friend of mine, judge RayHedden, and he discovered that
there's a bunch of institutionalracism in the judicial system,
but the problem is he can'tprove it.
It's all subjective and theyknow it's there but nobody has
(18:37):
the data because they neverbother to capture the data.
So this idea is use things likeartificial intelligence to flag
gender and age and ethnicitybiased languages, because a lot
of this stuff we don't dointentional, to be honest, but
some people just don't knowbetter.
(18:57):
Some people do, but I thinkmost people are trying to do the
right things.
They just haven't been madeaware of what they're doing is
maybe not the right verbage orthe right sentence and stuff.
So you can start to use AI tolook at job posts and other
things that you write and allthese kinds of things that could
(19:19):
potentially give this sort ofimplicit bias or truly a sort of
institutional bias that we,like I said, can't fix unless
you can see it and measure it.
So that's the technology pieceof this.
On step four, Two things run.
Yolanda Albergottie (19:39):
I almost feel like the COVID situation
has facilitated the changethat's required to move to that
next level.
So if you think about all ofthe social unrest, the racial
social unrest, it happened insuch a way that now it's in
people's faces in a way that itnever was before and it opened
(20:02):
up this dialogue and thisconversation.
Some authentic things havehappened and this exchange has
been made.
And then you look at with womenin the workforce.
So unfortunately, most womenare penalized for child work.
But if we have this technologythat allows a woman who desires
(20:22):
to be able to be very flexiblein her work and still be able to
be at home and run thatconference, it is the whole
dynamic.
So I love that technology canbe used in a way that can change
things for the better,especially on this particular
(20:42):
topic.
John Kundtz (20:43):
Well and think about it.
Let's just use working fromhome.
For the last year for some ofus, or more, it's all of a
sudden even five years, even ayear ago.
You would be horrified if youwere on a conference call or a
video conference and your dogbarked or your cat walked across
(21:06):
your computer or your kids cameflying into the room or
whatever.
Now we all realize that that'sthe reality of life, because
we've all had to literally pickup and go back home and people
are working in their bathtubsbecause they don't have any
place to make a little desk andthey sit in the bathtub because
(21:26):
they can't work anywhere else,because they got kids.
So the good news about thiswhole mess we've been through is
that now people have seen thehuman side of the workforce, and
so if your kid comes and sitson your lap while you're trying
to have a meeting, nobody reallycares.
It's not that they don't care,it's just a way.
(21:46):
It's like it's okay.
We know you've got kids and weknow you're trying to figure out
how to juggle 17 balls.
So I think a lot of the silverlining in this is that people
all of a sudden have taken thesort of the human-centric view
of the workforce, which intheory, should allow us to be
able to be more flexible.
Right, because at the end ofthe day, especially for
(22:07):
knowledge workers, it'sdifferent if you're doing a
physical, where you've got to beworking, paving a road or
something.
But in most of us who are inthe knowledge working business,
as long as we can get our workdone every day, there's no
reason why you can't take anhour out the middle of the day
to go teach your kid or feedthem Right.
Yolanda Albergottie (22:29):
Whatever Simple things like, oh, so just
I don't want to forget my otherpoint, but I will say that.
So it's simple things like theinfrastructure of childcare.
So childcare should be aninfrastructure in this country
that allows both parentsflexibility, right?
So we've had this problem, andone of the reasons that women
(22:51):
have left the workforce isbecause we do not have an
infrastructure that includeschildcare.
Who's going to put the kids onthe bus?
Who's going to get them off thebus?
Who's going to be with the kidsif they have to stay home at
work?
All this technology helps uslive in a good direction, right?
That's great.
So let me forget my point.
(23:12):
Let me say that because I thinkit's crucial to understand how
you can avoid bias.
So I happened to be in aclubhouse room with someone.
Why?
The family sisters?
We were talking about women inwine, of course.
And so one of the things shesaid in they interview people
(23:32):
no-transcript.
When they look at theirapplications, they don't know
the sex of the applicant.
They don't allow for that to beknown by the people Greetings,
and then someone else in theroom shared that's how some
orchestras now hold theirauditions, and so they will.
(23:53):
They do blind auditions.
They have no idea what the sexor gender is of the person
playing the instrument and whatthey sound surprisingly as they
hire more women and thatinteresting.
So it goes back to what youwere saying this unconscious
bias that people have it allowsfor that to be done away with in
(24:16):
many ways.
So I love the point, that pointthat you brought up.
Okay, if you can remember yourpoint, I didn't mean to
interrupt you, but I knew I wasgoing to forget if I just didn't
.
John Kundtz (24:25):
No, no, no, I'm good, we can go to five if you
want.
Yolanda Albergottie (24:28):
Okay, I'm ready.
John Kundtz (24:30):
So number five is create a culture of intention.
And so this goes back to theidea of you got to move away
from this program mindset.
I need to get a program forthis.
I got a diversity program, Igot this program.
I got to and move away and makeit a growth mindset.
Let's get out of this.
What we've been doing is we'vebeen taking these little baby
(24:52):
steps and we were expecting bigresults and then we're never
going to get them.
So you've got to have a growthmindset.
So you have to have leadershipsacross the business to just
demonstrating inclusiveattitudes and behaviors to drive
the cultural change.
You have to be an amplifier.
So empower all your employees,especially the managers.
(25:13):
That's why we talked aboutworking in the middle, first, to
look for ways that marginalizedvoices can be heard, because
that's the other problem.
We've all been in thesemeetings where there's always
this one big, loud, stupid guywho thinks he knows it all and
he monopolizes the meetingbecause he's big and he talks a
lot.
And then there's always a shy,quiet person in the corner who
(25:35):
has brilliant ideas but to neverget a word in edgewise.
And so again back to ourtechnology.
Now there's all kinds offacilitation and techniques and
co-creation.
Yolanda Albergottie (25:47):
The mute button, honey, that's what it's
called.
John Kundtz (25:49):
There's ways now to facilitate collaboration so all
voices can be heard.
Because you don't have to be inthese meetings.
Like I said, where and again,that's one of the reasons I've
always tried to say whenever Iget into a situation like that,
even in the old days when wewere face to face, I'd say we're
going to do idea generationfirst.
(26:10):
You can't judge, you justgenerate ideas.
We'll do judging separately,and that usually helps.
But now there's technology andother collaboration techniques
and just the ability to workglobally.
I can get people because there'sa global diversity by the way,
which I've learned in my travelsthat I worked in every
(26:33):
continent for business exceptAntarctica and so you get this
cultural diversity which isreally important.
So the way they think aboutstuff in Germany or Finland or
Sweden or South Africa or Brazilor Australia or Japan are all
totally different.
And so bringing those kind ofpeople together again, you can
(26:55):
get this unbelievable wealth ofdifferent ideas that you would
never think of, because yourculture, our culture, would
never even go down there.
We just don't have it, we'venever been exposed to it.
And then the last piece of thiscreate this culture of
intention is you really got tohave and we've just talked about
(27:15):
this you got to have thecourage to embrace the
discomfort.
Believe me, this is not it.
This is a bit of a discomfortdiscussion for me, like I said,
because I'm part of the peoplethat look like me and are my age
and stuff.
Yeah, cause it's probably, yeah,you are.
You got to admit that change ismessy and, as I always say
(27:37):
that's one of my mantras isdisruption is messy.
So you got to admit that it'smessy and you got to commit to
pushing your way through it.
And that's really the, I think.
At the end, like you said, yougot to have this courage to
realize and be able to talkabout uncomfortable things or
things that aren't within yourcomfort zone, cause that's the
(27:59):
only way we're going to allfigure out Again.
Going back to the, you got tosee the problem before you can
measure the problem.
You got to measure the problemin order to fix the problem.
So that is the five things.
Yolanda Albergottie (28:14):
I love it and let me just say you all need
to feel uncomfortable, becausewe can feel uncomfortable for a
long time, so it is your turnnow.
Oh no, I believe you.
John Kundtz (28:25):
Well, it's funny because I got, I've been in
these situations like when I didbusiness in South Africa and I
go down there and I did work inNairobi, kenya, and then I'm all
of a sudden I am in funny andeven as a white man, there are
very few Western US white peopleright, and usually from from
(28:45):
the UK or Europe.
So it was like you had thepeople, you had the Africans,
but then you had the sort of thenext minority was people from
India, because a lot of peoplecome into Africa to work and
then they still have theleftover people from Europe,
mainly UK and maybe the Dutchand stuff but then there's very
(29:08):
few people from the UnitedStates.
Same thing in like Japan, forinstance, even more so, because
all of a sudden I'm only 5'8 andI get in an elevator and I'm
like six inches taller thaneverybody.
It's wow.
So you start to.
If you put yourself in thosesituations globally, you'll
start to understand again someof the things that you guys that
(29:29):
maybe I you take for granted ornot take for granted, but you
experience every day and maybepeople like me are a bit
oblivious or just unfortunatelyaren't paying attention.
So, anyway, those are the fivethings that came out of this
report and, as I said, we werehappy to make this report
available to people to read themore details.
(29:51):
I just gave you the five steps.
Not so easy, unfortunately.
I think they should be easy,but I don't know if they are,
and that's what we're hoping tobe able to create bold
breakthroughs for theadvancement of women in the
workplace.
Yolanda Albergottie (30:07):
I love it.
I love it, and I will put thatlink in the show notes so people
will have access to that.
Thank you so much, john.
So again, tell us how peoplecan reach out to you ransom.
John Kundtz (30:21):
The easiest way is, again, probably through
LinkedIn, and you can.
I have a very unique last nameso you probably can search on
that, but it's really just myfirst name, John, and my last
name KUN Delta Tango Zulu, asthey say in the military.
But LinkedIn has sent me aprivate message.
(30:43):
I'll get you copies of it if we.
I'll probably put somethingdirectly to the corporate
website and the show notes orwe'll figure it out, but anyway,
this has been fun, yolanda.
Yolanda Albergottie (30:56):
Yeah, you know you're going to be back.
You've got stuff to talk about.
John Kundtz (31:00):
And, yeah, this was not our original idea.
I pivoted in the middle ofprepping for this.
Yolanda Albergottie (31:08):
But I love your original idea, so we've got
to have you back on for that.
John Kundtz (31:11):
I'm happy.
Yolanda Albergottie (31:12):
Do our conversation on Clubhouse.
We're going to do that.
John Kundtz (31:15):
Well, you know, while we're doing this, I think
that's let's put a plug in forthat.
So it would be fun and maybeuncomfortable, for me at least
but to have the continue thisconversation, maybe after the
podcast is released or inconjunction of it, so that
people can we can talk liveabout some of these things and
get.
This is, again, not necessarilymy opinion.
(31:37):
I agree with it, but I I'm not.
I didn't make this stuff up, soI'm just the news reporter for
this particular event.
So it'd be very interestingjust to get other people's
perspective and jeed back, andcertainly I'm sure we could even
feed it back to the people thatwrote the stuff.
Yolanda Albergottie (31:55):
I love that idea.
We have a plan that for sureCool.
All right, thank you, sir.
John Kundtz (32:01):
All right the rest of you, thank you.
Yolanda Albergottie (32:03):
All right Cheers.
I just want to say thank you somuch to everybody who's been
listening to the podcast andshowing us mad love and really
appreciating the support.
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