September 3, 2024 • 21 mins
In this episode of The Disruptor Podcast, host John Kundtz interviews Luká Yancopoulos, CEO and founder of Grapevine, a groundbreaking startup revolutionizing the healthcare supply chain landscape.
They explore the pressing challenges and inefficiencies plaguing the healthcare sector, including high costs, tech lags, and dependency on single suppliers.
Luká shares insights on the benefits of digital transformation in healthcare procurement and management and outlines the common pitfalls organizations face in this journey.
Episode Highlights:
- Luká shares his journey from studying renewable energy to tackling healthcare supply chain issues during the COVID-19 pandemic.
- The shocking reality of outdated systems used by major healthcare suppliers and the ripple effects on patient care.
- How digital transformation in healthcare supply chains can lead to significant cost savings - up to 60% on medical supplies and drugs.
- The potential to reduce patient costs by 25% through efficient supply chain management.
- Common pitfalls organizations face when addressing critical issues in the healthcare supply chain.
- The importance of user experience in successful technology adoption.
Key Insights:
- Improved supply chain management could potentially save the healthcare industry $350 billion in the next five years.
- Successful digital transformation requires benefiting all stakeholders, from procurement personnel to clinicians.
- Start with improving the shopping experience before changing suppliers or products.
- The concept of "11:59" - preserving what works while coaxing stakeholders into beneficial changes.
- Implementing change in small, digestible increments is crucial for successful adoption.
Deep Dive Opportunities:
Ready to revolutionize your healthcare supply chain and potentially save millions?
To learn more about Grapevine and how it can benefit your organization, visit www.go-grapevine.com. Join for free.
Connect directly with Luká Yancopoulos by email: luka@go-grapevine.com
Comments or Questions? Send us a text
***
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
disrupting the status quo and overcoming healthcare
supply chain challenges.
Hi everybody, I'm your host,john Kunz, and welcome to
another edition of the DisruptorPodcast.
For those that are new to ourshow, the Disruptor Series is
(00:21):
your blueprint forgroundbreaking innovation.
We started the podcast back inDecember of 2022 as a periodic
segment of the Apex podcast.
Our vision was to go beyondconventional wisdom by
confronting the status quo andexposing the raw power of
disruptive thinking.
Today, we will talk to avisionary entrepreneur who is
(00:42):
the driving force behindGrapevine, a groundbreaking
startup transforming thehealthcare supply chain
landscape.
Our guests will share valuableadvice for those attempting to
address critical issues inhealthcare supply chain, such as
skyrocketing healthcare costs,tech lag, single supplier
dependence, backorderfrustration and manual inventory
(01:03):
management.
In addition, we'll talk aboutsome of the pitfalls and the
mistakes many organizations canmake before they even get
started.
I'd like to welcome to the showLuca, ceo and founder of
Grapevine.
Luca, how you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I'm doing pretty great, John.
Thanks for having me on.
I'm very excited to pick yourmind.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
This should be some fun.
A little background on my end.
I used to manage the healthcarebusiness for IBM in Northeast
Ohio, and amongst them were anumber of large healthcare
organizations.
We did a supply chain projectprobably 10 years, maybe 20
years ago by now and I tell youwhat it was eye-opening, and so
(01:45):
I think what you're trying to dowill probably be very relevant.
Before we get started, justgive me a little bit about your
background, your education, yourexperiences, sort of how did
you get from wherever youstarted to this grapevine and
start anywhere you want?
Sure.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I always thought of myself as a creative since I was
a little kid, but I hope toapply my creative skills and
entrepreneurial dreams to theworld of renewable energy,
bioengineering, environmentalscience.
When COVID hit, my reaction toCOVID was not just fear for
(02:27):
myself or fear for what theworld might become, but more
importantly to me at the timewas a fear I had for my parents'
well-being.
My parents are both in themedical space they're both
medical providers.
My dad's a doctor, my mom's anurse practitioner and I was
scared about the exposure theywere facing due to supply chain
disruption, and I wasn't one whohad any experience in supply
(02:50):
chains, let alone healthcaresupply chains, at the time.
But that was my reason forgetting involved.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Wow, fascinating.
We also sometimes get intothese businesses serendipitously
, by mistake.
As I mentioned earlier, I spentsome time doing a healthcare
supply chain implementationconsulting project a while ago
and I learned a lot about thehealthcare supply chain.
I'm sure it's changed, butknowing healthcare maybe hasn't
changed that much.
(03:17):
What are some of thesignificant benefits that you
started to see as you dove intothe healthcare supply chain, and
what would leaders who aretrying to embrace this digital
overhaul of the supply chainpotentially see?
Speaker 2 (03:31):
As we started getting involved in the healthcare
supply chain space, I waspersonally shocked by the
systems being used in doctor'soffices to procure medical
supplies from some of thebiggest companies in the United
States companies like McKessonor Cardinal Health or
AmerisourceBurgeon, doinghundreds of billions of dollars
of sales revenue each year.
(03:52):
Right, and what felt likeancient system before my time
systems.
It blew my mind.
I think of supply chains likeAmazon and a customer experience
where you order something, itcomes the next day.
Right, I can order from anyonein the world, right From the
palm of my hand and in my iPhone, and then you look at the
systems that are being used thehundreds, if not thousands, of
(04:13):
employees in a hospital that aremanaging what's called
procurement right Everythingfrom negotiating contracts to
managing inventory, to usingthose inventory depletions to
send out orders and thendistribute their products and
check the products throughoutthe hospital.
It was a crazy different systemand something that I didn't
expect.
I couldn't have imagined untilwe got involved.
(04:33):
Part of that's a B2B sort ofworld and different needs, but
part of it's just a veryoutdated technology and
information systems that haven'tchanged much, and I think one
of the big reasons they haven'tchanged much is that doctors,
medical practices.
Their focus is on patient careand providing the highest
quality of patient care.
(04:53):
That's where their expertise is.
It's where their training is,and even a lot of the leadership
in larger medical practiceshave a clinical background right
being a doctor, being a nursethat's worked their way up and
became a leader.
They aren't the types of peoplethat have an expertise in
supply chain.
That's not their background.
So you got these systems thatare sort of tangential to the
(05:17):
priorities of a medical practiceor falling to the wayside for
decades and they work forpeople's needs for the last 25,
30 years.
So if it works, don't fix it.
Not worth shaking things up,potentially causing major
problems that could lead to lossof patient life or disrupting
patient care.
So I think that's a lot ofhealthcare leadership's
(05:38):
mentality going into the COVIDdisruption event.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
And it ain't broke, so we'regood.
But then you get an event likeCOVID, a supply chain disruption
event at the scale that we'dnever seen really in my lifetime
, and people's perspectiveschange.
System weaknesses are broughtto light and turn into entire
system failures.
A huge new wave of interest inboth engineering and inventing
(06:04):
solutions to these problemscomes out from people like me,
but also a motivation to adoptthose changes.
From healthcare, leadership isborn.
That's where my company,grapevine, really found its spot
and its opportunity in a movecrisis as an opportunity to
respond and make things betterfor future.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
So if an organization goes forward and does a digital
overhaul of their supply chain,what kind of benefits might
they directly see?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
By the numbers.
We've had oncology instituteswith hundreds of locations to
small practices saving over 60%on their budget for medical
supplies and drugs.
For some larger hospitalsthat's literally billions of
dollars, right, Billions ofdollars.
That is often either reinvestedinto direct patient care
(06:54):
improvements right, they havemore budget to improve the
quality of care, experiment andresearch, new clinical trials
and advance the quality ofpatient care directly, or it's a
cost that can be cut and passedforward right, that cut, or
those savings can be passedforward directly to the patient.
We've had medical practices thatare able to cut their patient
(07:14):
costs by close to 25% becausethey're saving so much money.
They maintain their same profitmargin and their goal is to
deliver the highest qualityservice at the best price to
their customers their customersbeing patients and they're given
now an opportunity to lowertheir costs.
So at Grapevine we're talkingabout saving the entire
healthcare industry more than50% in the next five years.
(07:37):
So right now in the US we'respending almost $700 billion on
medical supplies.
We believe we can cut that to$350 billion, hopefully cut down
the cost of patient care foreveryone.
I think we are everyone'ssolution, not directly, but
indirectly.
I think we can cut down theaverage cost of medical bill
that I receive as a random Joewalking into an urgent care
(08:00):
clinic.
I think that we can cut ourcosts by about 25% by cutting
these supply costs by more than50%.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Wow, so we're really talking real money.
A billion here, a billionairestarts to add up right, it's
huge, we're only talking realmoney.
A billion here, a billion there, it all starts to add up right.
It's huge, yeah.
So that's sort of the incentive.
Now.
I've worked on a lot of digitaltransformation projects and
talked to a lot of people inthis space, but there's always a
couple of mistakes or pitfalls.
What common mistakes orpitfalls might organizations
(08:28):
make when attempting to addressthese critical issues in the
healthcare supply chain?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Yeah, I think that, looking at it by the numbers,
creating a financial incentivefor savings is not enough.
It is the tip of the iceberg inimplementing a real solution.
There is a real way to save ahuge amount of money for any
medical practice, but how do weactually seamlessly fold that
into the day-to-day practices ofreal people clinicians, doctors
, the people that sit behind ascreen and place orders on four
different websites?
How do we bring that alltogether and make things not
(08:59):
just easy for the CFO but forevery single person involved in
supply chain, from the personwho opens the cabinet to use a
syringe with a patient to theprocurement personnel placing
these orders?
I think that most disruptorsmake right.
They create change, they createsomething of value, but they
don't account for all of thepeople that are going to need to
sort of buy in or engage withthat innovation.
(09:21):
They leave some peoplecomplaining right.
They're balancing a costagainst the benefit as opposed
to just giving everyone benefits.
And at GreatBuy we are trying togive everyone benefits, and by
that I mean we've created anentire sort of procurement
solution right that allowsmedical practices, current
personnel, office managers tolink their various suppliers.
(09:42):
So maybe they work with fivecontracted suppliers, maybe 10,
bring all those shoppingexperiences under one screen
where you can click and buy fromany of the suppliers you're
choosing.
As you shop, your usualsuppliers on their contracted
prices will redirect you to newsources, not just your own
sources, but new suppliers thatyou could sort of unlock
manufacturers, cut out themiddleman and work directly with
(10:05):
the manufacturer.
Where you can save 20% here,save 20% there.
So the shopping experienceitself is equally important to
the savings that are received.
It needs to be easier to shop,while it's more cost effective
to shop using grapevine.
That's really only thebeginning of what we're trying
to do, beyond just the shoppingexperience.
We believe there's a day in thenear future where nobody at a
(10:27):
medical practice will need toplace an order or shop online at
all.
They don't even need to look ata screen.
They simply pull something outof their cabinet, right, and
once those cabinets get low,orders will be immediately shot
out to any of their linkedsuppliers or the best of their
linked suppliers in an instantright, creating a harmonious
relationship between the supplycabinet all the way through to
(10:50):
the thousands of differentsources from which you can buy
or restock that supply cabinet,making the best choice and
restocking for your needs andfor your patients, so you're
always prepared.
The idea of not includingeveryone or benefiting everyone
that touches a solution or aninnovation or a piece of
technology is an oftenshortcoming right, and it's not
just in healthcare or software,it's across the board.
(11:11):
If you are trying to pitch yourfamily on a brand new type of
car, it better be comfortablefor the kids, it better have a
good safety rating.
It better check all the boxes.
It can't just look cool, evenif that's your priority.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
No, you're spot on.
In my opinion, you can have agreat value prop, but if you
don't take into account the userexperience, especially on
high-end practitioners likedoctors and nurses and other
healthcare providers, they'rejust not going to do it.
Their time is very valuable andif they don't have a good
experience, it's going to fail.
I see this all the time.
(11:44):
The other thing I see we're allused to our shopping experience
today, right?
So it's with the Amazonexperience that we want.
The reason we do that isbecause of the experience.
We may not even save moneysometimes, but we use those
services because we know theyhave what we need and we get
what we want fast.
We have a great experience.
So I think that's great advice.
(12:06):
A little more advice from youwould be what would someone
considering embarking on a fullscale digital transformation
that can bring long-termefficiency and resilience to the
healthcare supply chain?
How would they start?
What would they do?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Right, if we're talking about a digital
transformation, supply chain isa great area to start in.
Why?
Because it's not the core focusof a business.
It's not putting directly yourpatients at risk or the
day-to-day operations of all ofyour clinicians, right your
doctors and nurses at risk.
It's something that feeds intothose systems but isn't going to
(12:40):
, you know, affect the loudestvoices in the room and the most
important people.
So healthcare supply chain is agreat place to start with.
A digital transformation, asfar as how do you start on that
journey, is the easiest thing tochange.
There are people whose day isbased around shopping.
They call them either officemanagers or German personnel,
(13:02):
and these people are going tospend hours bopping around
different websites trying tomake sure that the price on this
website is better than thatwebsite.
Don't change the products,don't change the sources from
which you buy, but make thatshopping experience for the
people that are stuck shopping.
Anyway, make that simpler.
Bring together those suppliersinto a single place so people
don't need to compare by loggingin and logging out and opening
(13:25):
up different windows, but theyget exactly what they usually
buy now on one screen and thesystem, being great, compares
those things for you right.
When something's on backwaterfrom your usual supplier, we
redirect you to a new sourceright With the click of a button
as you add to cart, we'reswapping in the thing that makes
more sense for your preferences.
In case I think changing howyou shop is a great first step,
(13:47):
I would fold in changing fromwhom you shop or changing up
your suppliers.
I don't think most peoplerealize this, but of those
hundreds of billions of dollarsof medical supply being
purchased in the United States,they're running through mostly
distributors Medline, henrySchein, mckesson, cargill.
Most of their catalog is comingfrom third-party manufacturers,
(14:10):
like brands that people know,like Becton, dickinson, bd, the
list goes on and on.
Pfizer, right Drugs, whateverit may be.
They're not the only peoplewith these drugs or these
medical devices right.
You can actually get the sameexact product from any one of
them.
So consider different options.
We talk about this as if it'slike a kayak or an Expedia of
(14:32):
medical supplies.
Bring those options together soyou can see them all in one
place.
Look at the different sourcesfrom which you can buy the same
exact supplies.
Again, the experience for theclinician isn't going to change.
They're getting the sameproduct, the same syringe with
the same little tip cap they'regoing to inject into the patient
.
We haven't changed anything forclinicians or patient care yet,
but we're already able to avoidbackwaters, save the
(14:53):
procurement people a lot of timeand cut costs by shifting spend
to more sensible suppliers.
Finally, the last step ofimplementing major changes in
the supply chain would belooking at brand substitutes.
Right, you might buy theFerrari of syringes or needle.
Do you need the Ferrari ofsyringes or needle for this
particular office, for this typeof patient care?
(15:14):
Maybe not Consider differentFDA approved substitutes to the
same exact item, and that mightbe a clinical change.
Now you might have a doctorsaying wait a minute, how do I
unscrew this thing or how do Ichange this in, and that has an
actual burden, sort of all theway through the company.
Which is why I'd say that's asort of last step and a step
that most of our customers don'teven end up taking, because
(15:36):
they're saving 30, 40, 50%without even changing the
products they buy.
It's just from where they buyand how they buy.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Great advice.
It seems to make a lot of sense.
Well, I want to start wrappingthis up.
One of the last things Iusually ask people is if there's
anything I should have askedyou, but I didn't, or something
else additionally you'd like toshare you, but I didn't?
Or something else additionallyyou'd like to share.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
I think that when you're trying to disrupt an
industry or create change in aspace, it's important to meet
the customer where they're at.
It's something that I didn'treally understand the meaning of
, but the way that me and myteam now understand it is a
concept called 1159.
Everyone's comfortable withwhere they're at today.
If I ask you where you'resitting today, john, you'll say
(16:18):
oh, I'm in my office chair.
You know, I got this on thewall.
You know exactly where you areand people are comfortable
knowing where they are.
But everyone has a bit ofhesitation about change, the
unknown.
What's coming.
Will the things I'm doing nowbe relevant to my future?
Am I spending my time andenergy in the right ways?
Change can be scary.
So understanding what peopleappreciate about their present,
(16:42):
about the moment they're inright now, understanding what
they wish could be different,preserving what they appreciate
about their present and thencoaxing them into a tomorrow
that has the change they wantwhile respecting the changes
they don't want, that's a reallyimportant thing for creating
change.
You can't disrupt everything atonce.
(17:02):
No one wants that.
No one wants a whole new worldwith a snap of the fingers.
But if you play your cardsright and you know your customer
well enough to know what theylike, about what they do and
what they don't, then you canbring them to that moment that
we call 1159 pm, the edge oftoday.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Then you can bring them to that moment that we call
11 59 pm, the edge of today andhelp them step through into
tomorrow.
The edge of today, yeah, in thestart of tomorrow.
That's great, because that'sactually something I preach a
lot, uh, in my work is you gotto empathize with the personas
that are involved in your worldand if you do that, if you
really understand what they doand how they feel, what they say
, you can dress them in small,bite-sized pieces right.
(17:38):
Most digital transformations,or any transformations, fail
when they try to do the big bang.
People are hesitant to change weall are but if I take it in
small increments and I make sureI'm walking in those people's
shoes, then there's going to bebuy-in and they're going to see
value more quickly.
The days of us implementingsystems that took 18 to 20
(17:59):
months are over.
Got to be able to do somethingquickly, show small incremental
change and then pivot.
Continue to do what's workingwell, but pivot on the stuff
that needs to be changed orimproved, because a lot of times
you just don't know what youdon't know.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Exactly and the whole idea of like.
I would never say to mycustomer we're going to overhaul
anything.
I like to say you're not goingto notice a single change, but
you're going to save a lot ofmoney.
Or you're not going to notice asingle change for the doctors,
the nurses, but this person'sday is going to get easier.
Just one person, one job title,one little gap and piece by
piece you can create theoverhaul.
(18:36):
But making it into small,digestible chunks that people
can really chew, swallow anddigest is important.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Excellent.
Well, let's wrap it up.
I want to thank you, luca, fora great interview.
Before we ask one more questionhow can people learn more about
you, your company Grapevine?
Where do they go?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Our platform is totally free to use.
If you're interested inchecking it out, you could do so
at go-grapevinecom that's golike hyphen symbol, grapevinecom
and if you sign up, you'll hearfrom us shortly and start
saving a ton of money.
If you need to reach out to medirectly, you could shoot me an
email.
My email is luka L-U-K-A at thesame website.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
I know you're on LinkedIn, so we'll include your
LinkedIn profile if people wantto reach out to you that way as
well.
So I got one last question.
You really already alluded toit, but we'll summarize it as we
wrap up.
Why is Grapevine an excellentoption for organizations looking
to save on medical supply?
Speaker 2 (19:30):
costs.
I think exactly like you put it, John.
We'll summarize here.
It shouldn't cost money to savemoney.
It does not cost money to startusing Grapevine.
You don't have to pay $10,000,$50,000 to implement a solution
that now you're stuck with somecost that maybe we just need to
get it across the finish line.
You're 20 months deep andyou're still waiting to see the
(19:51):
benefit.
There's no cost associated withit.
There's very minimal change.
If you just want your shoppersto save money, that can be the
change we start with.
Then nothing else happens otherthan one person's day is better
and you're getting time back.
If you want to take all thedifferent steps going through
this process, it's a few weeksof implementation to make a
(20:11):
dozen changes that'll drive upto 60% savings on your medical
supply spend.
To me, it's not just a greatchoice or an option.
I consider it an obligation asa patient, as a child of two
healthcare workers, it's anobligation to lower the costs of
healthcare where we can.
Healthcare costs are crazy highin this country.
A few small changes can be thedifference between people
(20:33):
getting treatment they need andpeople being left out to dry.
We're excited to be part ofthat future.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Thanks so much, luca, for sharing your visionary,
groundbreaking startup that'strying to transform the
healthcare supply chain.
I'm John Kuntz.
Thanks for listening to thisedition of the Disruptor Podcast
.
Don't forget to check outGrapevine's website and connect
with Luca via email or LinkedIn.
We'll put those in the shownotes, and so here's just a few
(21:01):
final points to remember.
If you want to save 50% on yourmedical supply costs, reduce
order times by 90% andseamlessly work with multiple
vendors, you don't have to do itby yourself.
You've got a partner likeGrapevine that can help you.
Have a great day all, andthanks for listening.
disrupting the status quo and overcoming healthcare
supply chain challenges.
Hi everybody, I'm your host,john Kunz, and welcome to
another edition of the DisruptorPodcast.
For those that are new to ourshow, the Disruptor Series is
(00:21):
your blueprint forgroundbreaking innovation.
We started the podcast back inDecember of 2022 as a periodic
segment of the Apex podcast.
Our vision was to go beyondconventional wisdom by
confronting the status quo andexposing the raw power of
disruptive thinking.
Today, we will talk to avisionary entrepreneur who is
(00:42):
the driving force behindGrapevine, a groundbreaking
startup transforming thehealthcare supply chain
landscape.
Our guests will share valuableadvice for those attempting to
address critical issues inhealthcare supply chain, such as
skyrocketing healthcare costs,tech lag, single supplier
dependence, backorderfrustration and manual inventory
(01:03):
management.
In addition, we'll talk aboutsome of the pitfalls and the
mistakes many organizations canmake before they even get
started.
I'd like to welcome to the showLuca, ceo and founder of
Grapevine.
Luca, how you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
I'm doing pretty great, John.
Thanks for having me on.
I'm very excited to pick yourmind.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
This should be some fun.
A little background on my end.
I used to manage the healthcarebusiness for IBM in Northeast
Ohio, and amongst them were anumber of large healthcare
organizations.
We did a supply chain projectprobably 10 years, maybe 20
years ago by now and I tell youwhat it was eye-opening, and so
(01:45):
I think what you're trying to dowill probably be very relevant.
Before we get started, justgive me a little bit about your
background, your education, yourexperiences, sort of how did
you get from wherever youstarted to this grapevine and
start anywhere you want?
Sure.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
I always thought of myself as a creative since I was
a little kid, but I hope toapply my creative skills and
entrepreneurial dreams to theworld of renewable energy,
bioengineering, environmentalscience.
When COVID hit, my reaction toCOVID was not just fear for
(02:27):
myself or fear for what theworld might become, but more
importantly to me at the timewas a fear I had for my parents'
well-being.
My parents are both in themedical space they're both
medical providers.
My dad's a doctor, my mom's anurse practitioner and I was
scared about the exposure theywere facing due to supply chain
disruption, and I wasn't one whohad any experience in supply
(02:50):
chains, let alone healthcaresupply chains, at the time.
But that was my reason forgetting involved.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
Wow, fascinating.
We also sometimes get intothese businesses serendipitously
, by mistake.
As I mentioned earlier, I spentsome time doing a healthcare
supply chain implementationconsulting project a while ago
and I learned a lot about thehealthcare supply chain.
I'm sure it's changed, butknowing healthcare maybe hasn't
changed that much.
(03:17):
What are some of thesignificant benefits that you
started to see as you dove intothe healthcare supply chain, and
what would leaders who aretrying to embrace this digital
overhaul of the supply chainpotentially see?
Speaker 2 (03:31):
As we started getting involved in the healthcare
supply chain space, I waspersonally shocked by the
systems being used in doctor'soffices to procure medical
supplies from some of thebiggest companies in the United
States companies like McKessonor Cardinal Health or
AmerisourceBurgeon, doinghundreds of billions of dollars
of sales revenue each year.
(03:52):
Right, and what felt likeancient system before my time
systems.
It blew my mind.
I think of supply chains likeAmazon and a customer experience
where you order something, itcomes the next day.
Right, I can order from anyonein the world, right From the
palm of my hand and in my iPhone, and then you look at the
systems that are being used thehundreds, if not thousands, of
(04:13):
employees in a hospital that aremanaging what's called
procurement right Everythingfrom negotiating contracts to
managing inventory, to usingthose inventory depletions to
send out orders and thendistribute their products and
check the products throughoutthe hospital.
It was a crazy different systemand something that I didn't
expect.
I couldn't have imagined untilwe got involved.
(04:33):
Part of that's a B2B sort ofworld and different needs, but
part of it's just a veryoutdated technology and
information systems that haven'tchanged much, and I think one
of the big reasons they haven'tchanged much is that doctors,
medical practices.
Their focus is on patient careand providing the highest
quality of patient care.
(04:53):
That's where their expertise is.
It's where their training is,and even a lot of the leadership
in larger medical practiceshave a clinical background right
being a doctor, being a nursethat's worked their way up and
became a leader.
They aren't the types of peoplethat have an expertise in
supply chain.
That's not their background.
So you got these systems thatare sort of tangential to the
(05:17):
priorities of a medical practiceor falling to the wayside for
decades and they work forpeople's needs for the last 25,
30 years.
So if it works, don't fix it.
Not worth shaking things up,potentially causing major
problems that could lead to lossof patient life or disrupting
patient care.
So I think that's a lot ofhealthcare leadership's
(05:38):
mentality going into the COVIDdisruption event.
If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
And it ain't broke, so we'regood.
But then you get an event likeCOVID, a supply chain disruption
event at the scale that we'dnever seen really in my lifetime
, and people's perspectiveschange.
System weaknesses are broughtto light and turn into entire
system failures.
A huge new wave of interest inboth engineering and inventing
(06:04):
solutions to these problemscomes out from people like me,
but also a motivation to adoptthose changes.
From healthcare, leadership isborn.
That's where my company,grapevine, really found its spot
and its opportunity in a movecrisis as an opportunity to
respond and make things betterfor future.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
So if an organization goes forward and does a digital
overhaul of their supply chain,what kind of benefits might
they directly see?
Speaker 2 (06:34):
By the numbers.
We've had oncology instituteswith hundreds of locations to
small practices saving over 60%on their budget for medical
supplies and drugs.
For some larger hospitalsthat's literally billions of
dollars, right, Billions ofdollars.
That is often either reinvestedinto direct patient care
(06:54):
improvements right, they havemore budget to improve the
quality of care, experiment andresearch, new clinical trials
and advance the quality ofpatient care directly, or it's a
cost that can be cut and passedforward right, that cut, or
those savings can be passedforward directly to the patient.
We've had medical practices thatare able to cut their patient
(07:14):
costs by close to 25% becausethey're saving so much money.
They maintain their same profitmargin and their goal is to
deliver the highest qualityservice at the best price to
their customers their customersbeing patients and they're given
now an opportunity to lowertheir costs.
So at Grapevine we're talkingabout saving the entire
healthcare industry more than50% in the next five years.
(07:37):
So right now in the US we'respending almost $700 billion on
medical supplies.
We believe we can cut that to$350 billion, hopefully cut down
the cost of patient care foreveryone.
I think we are everyone'ssolution, not directly, but
indirectly.
I think we can cut down theaverage cost of medical bill
that I receive as a random Joewalking into an urgent care
(08:00):
clinic.
I think that we can cut ourcosts by about 25% by cutting
these supply costs by more than50%.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
Wow, so we're really talking real money.
A billion here, a billionairestarts to add up right, it's
huge, we're only talking realmoney.
A billion here, a billion there, it all starts to add up right.
It's huge, yeah.
So that's sort of the incentive.
Now.
I've worked on a lot of digitaltransformation projects and
talked to a lot of people inthis space, but there's always a
couple of mistakes or pitfalls.
What common mistakes orpitfalls might organizations
(08:28):
make when attempting to addressthese critical issues in the
healthcare supply chain?
Speaker 2 (08:38):
Yeah, I think that, looking at it by the numbers,
creating a financial incentivefor savings is not enough.
It is the tip of the iceberg inimplementing a real solution.
There is a real way to save ahuge amount of money for any
medical practice, but how do weactually seamlessly fold that
into the day-to-day practices ofreal people clinicians, doctors
, the people that sit behind ascreen and place orders on four
different websites?
How do we bring that alltogether and make things not
(08:59):
just easy for the CFO but forevery single person involved in
supply chain, from the personwho opens the cabinet to use a
syringe with a patient to theprocurement personnel placing
these orders?
I think that most disruptorsmake right.
They create change, they createsomething of value, but they
don't account for all of thepeople that are going to need to
sort of buy in or engage withthat innovation.
(09:21):
They leave some peoplecomplaining right.
They're balancing a costagainst the benefit as opposed
to just giving everyone benefits.
And at GreatBuy we are trying togive everyone benefits, and by
that I mean we've created anentire sort of procurement
solution right that allowsmedical practices, current
personnel, office managers tolink their various suppliers.
(09:42):
So maybe they work with fivecontracted suppliers, maybe 10,
bring all those shoppingexperiences under one screen
where you can click and buy fromany of the suppliers you're
choosing.
As you shop, your usualsuppliers on their contracted
prices will redirect you to newsources, not just your own
sources, but new suppliers thatyou could sort of unlock
manufacturers, cut out themiddleman and work directly with
(10:05):
the manufacturer.
Where you can save 20% here,save 20% there.
So the shopping experienceitself is equally important to
the savings that are received.
It needs to be easier to shop,while it's more cost effective
to shop using grapevine.
That's really only thebeginning of what we're trying
to do, beyond just the shoppingexperience.
We believe there's a day in thenear future where nobody at a
(10:27):
medical practice will need toplace an order or shop online at
all.
They don't even need to look ata screen.
They simply pull something outof their cabinet, right, and
once those cabinets get low,orders will be immediately shot
out to any of their linkedsuppliers or the best of their
linked suppliers in an instantright, creating a harmonious
relationship between the supplycabinet all the way through to
(10:50):
the thousands of differentsources from which you can buy
or restock that supply cabinet,making the best choice and
restocking for your needs andfor your patients, so you're
always prepared.
The idea of not includingeveryone or benefiting everyone
that touches a solution or aninnovation or a piece of
technology is an oftenshortcoming right, and it's not
just in healthcare or software,it's across the board.
(11:11):
If you are trying to pitch yourfamily on a brand new type of
car, it better be comfortablefor the kids, it better have a
good safety rating.
It better check all the boxes.
It can't just look cool, evenif that's your priority.
Speaker 1 (11:24):
No, you're spot on.
In my opinion, you can have agreat value prop, but if you
don't take into account the userexperience, especially on
high-end practitioners likedoctors and nurses and other
healthcare providers, they'rejust not going to do it.
Their time is very valuable andif they don't have a good
experience, it's going to fail.
I see this all the time.
(11:44):
The other thing I see we're allused to our shopping experience
today, right?
So it's with the Amazonexperience that we want.
The reason we do that isbecause of the experience.
We may not even save moneysometimes, but we use those
services because we know theyhave what we need and we get
what we want fast.
We have a great experience.
So I think that's great advice.
(12:06):
A little more advice from youwould be what would someone
considering embarking on a fullscale digital transformation
that can bring long-termefficiency and resilience to the
healthcare supply chain?
How would they start?
What would they do?
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Right, if we're talking about a digital
transformation, supply chain isa great area to start in.
Why?
Because it's not the core focusof a business.
It's not putting directly yourpatients at risk or the
day-to-day operations of all ofyour clinicians, right your
doctors and nurses at risk.
It's something that feeds intothose systems but isn't going to
(12:40):
, you know, affect the loudestvoices in the room and the most
important people.
So healthcare supply chain is agreat place to start with.
A digital transformation, asfar as how do you start on that
journey, is the easiest thing tochange.
There are people whose day isbased around shopping.
They call them either officemanagers or German personnel,
(13:02):
and these people are going tospend hours bopping around
different websites trying tomake sure that the price on this
website is better than thatwebsite.
Don't change the products,don't change the sources from
which you buy, but make thatshopping experience for the
people that are stuck shopping.
Anyway, make that simpler.
Bring together those suppliersinto a single place so people
don't need to compare by loggingin and logging out and opening
(13:25):
up different windows, but theyget exactly what they usually
buy now on one screen and thesystem, being great, compares
those things for you right.
When something's on backwaterfrom your usual supplier, we
redirect you to a new sourceright With the click of a button
as you add to cart, we'reswapping in the thing that makes
more sense for your preferences.
In case I think changing howyou shop is a great first step,
(13:47):
I would fold in changing fromwhom you shop or changing up
your suppliers.
I don't think most peoplerealize this, but of those
hundreds of billions of dollarsof medical supply being
purchased in the United States,they're running through mostly
distributors Medline, henrySchein, mckesson, cargill.
Most of their catalog is comingfrom third-party manufacturers,
(14:10):
like brands that people know,like Becton, dickinson, bd, the
list goes on and on.
Pfizer, right Drugs, whateverit may be.
They're not the only peoplewith these drugs or these
medical devices right.
You can actually get the sameexact product from any one of
them.
So consider different options.
We talk about this as if it'slike a kayak or an Expedia of
(14:32):
medical supplies.
Bring those options together soyou can see them all in one
place.
Look at the different sourcesfrom which you can buy the same
exact supplies.
Again, the experience for theclinician isn't going to change.
They're getting the sameproduct, the same syringe with
the same little tip cap they'regoing to inject into the patient
.
We haven't changed anything forclinicians or patient care yet,
but we're already able to avoidbackwaters, save the
(14:53):
procurement people a lot of timeand cut costs by shifting spend
to more sensible suppliers.
Finally, the last step ofimplementing major changes in
the supply chain would belooking at brand substitutes.
Right, you might buy theFerrari of syringes or needle.
Do you need the Ferrari ofsyringes or needle for this
particular office, for this typeof patient care?
(15:14):
Maybe not Consider differentFDA approved substitutes to the
same exact item, and that mightbe a clinical change.
Now you might have a doctorsaying wait a minute, how do I
unscrew this thing or how do Ichange this in, and that has an
actual burden, sort of all theway through the company.
Which is why I'd say that's asort of last step and a step
that most of our customers don'teven end up taking, because
(15:36):
they're saving 30, 40, 50%without even changing the
products they buy.
It's just from where they buyand how they buy.
Speaker 1 (15:43):
Great advice.
It seems to make a lot of sense.
Well, I want to start wrappingthis up.
One of the last things Iusually ask people is if there's
anything I should have askedyou, but I didn't, or something
else additionally you'd like toshare you, but I didn't?
Or something else additionallyyou'd like to share.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
I think that when you're trying to disrupt an
industry or create change in aspace, it's important to meet
the customer where they're at.
It's something that I didn'treally understand the meaning of
, but the way that me and myteam now understand it is a
concept called 1159.
Everyone's comfortable withwhere they're at today.
If I ask you where you'resitting today, john, you'll say
(16:18):
oh, I'm in my office chair.
You know, I got this on thewall.
You know exactly where you areand people are comfortable
knowing where they are.
But everyone has a bit ofhesitation about change, the
unknown.
What's coming.
Will the things I'm doing nowbe relevant to my future?
Am I spending my time andenergy in the right ways?
Change can be scary.
So understanding what peopleappreciate about their present,
(16:42):
about the moment they're inright now, understanding what
they wish could be different,preserving what they appreciate
about their present and thencoaxing them into a tomorrow
that has the change they wantwhile respecting the changes
they don't want, that's a reallyimportant thing for creating
change.
You can't disrupt everything atonce.
(17:02):
No one wants that.
No one wants a whole new worldwith a snap of the fingers.
But if you play your cardsright and you know your customer
well enough to know what theylike, about what they do and
what they don't, then you canbring them to that moment that
we call 1159 pm, the edge oftoday.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Then you can bring them to that moment that we call
11 59 pm, the edge of today andhelp them step through into
tomorrow.
The edge of today, yeah, in thestart of tomorrow.
That's great, because that'sactually something I preach a
lot, uh, in my work is you gotto empathize with the personas
that are involved in your worldand if you do that, if you
really understand what they doand how they feel, what they say
, you can dress them in small,bite-sized pieces right.
(17:38):
Most digital transformations,or any transformations, fail
when they try to do the big bang.
People are hesitant to change weall are but if I take it in
small increments and I make sureI'm walking in those people's
shoes, then there's going to bebuy-in and they're going to see
value more quickly.
The days of us implementingsystems that took 18 to 20
(17:59):
months are over.
Got to be able to do somethingquickly, show small incremental
change and then pivot.
Continue to do what's workingwell, but pivot on the stuff
that needs to be changed orimproved, because a lot of times
you just don't know what youdon't know.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Exactly and the whole idea of like.
I would never say to mycustomer we're going to overhaul
anything.
I like to say you're not goingto notice a single change, but
you're going to save a lot ofmoney.
Or you're not going to notice asingle change for the doctors,
the nurses, but this person'sday is going to get easier.
Just one person, one job title,one little gap and piece by
piece you can create theoverhaul.
(18:36):
But making it into small,digestible chunks that people
can really chew, swallow anddigest is important.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
Excellent.
Well, let's wrap it up.
I want to thank you, luca, fora great interview.
Before we ask one more questionhow can people learn more about
you, your company Grapevine?
Where do they go?
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Our platform is totally free to use.
If you're interested inchecking it out, you could do so
at go-grapevinecom that's golike hyphen symbol, grapevinecom
and if you sign up, you'll hearfrom us shortly and start
saving a ton of money.
If you need to reach out to medirectly, you could shoot me an
email.
My email is luka L-U-K-A at thesame website.
Speaker 1 (19:15):
I know you're on LinkedIn, so we'll include your
LinkedIn profile if people wantto reach out to you that way as
well.
So I got one last question.
You really already alluded toit, but we'll summarize it as we
wrap up.
Why is Grapevine an excellentoption for organizations looking
to save on medical supply?
Speaker 2 (19:30):
costs.
I think exactly like you put it, John.
We'll summarize here.
It shouldn't cost money to savemoney.
It does not cost money to startusing Grapevine.
You don't have to pay $10,000,$50,000 to implement a solution
that now you're stuck with somecost that maybe we just need to
get it across the finish line.
You're 20 months deep andyou're still waiting to see the
(19:51):
benefit.
There's no cost associated withit.
There's very minimal change.
If you just want your shoppersto save money, that can be the
change we start with.
Then nothing else happens otherthan one person's day is better
and you're getting time back.
If you want to take all thedifferent steps going through
this process, it's a few weeksof implementation to make a
(20:11):
dozen changes that'll drive upto 60% savings on your medical
supply spend.
To me, it's not just a greatchoice or an option.
I consider it an obligation asa patient, as a child of two
healthcare workers, it's anobligation to lower the costs of
healthcare where we can.
Healthcare costs are crazy highin this country.
A few small changes can be thedifference between people
(20:33):
getting treatment they need andpeople being left out to dry.
We're excited to be part ofthat future.
Speaker 1 (20:39):
Thanks so much, luca, for sharing your visionary,
groundbreaking startup that'strying to transform the
healthcare supply chain.
I'm John Kuntz.
Thanks for listening to thisedition of the Disruptor Podcast
.
Don't forget to check outGrapevine's website and connect
with Luca via email or LinkedIn.
We'll put those in the shownotes, and so here's just a few
(21:01):
final points to remember.
If you want to save 50% on yourmedical supply costs, reduce
order times by 90% andseamlessly work with multiple
vendors, you don't have to do itby yourself.
You've got a partner likeGrapevine that can help you.
Have a great day all, andthanks for listening.
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