September 19, 2024 • 20 mins
"Managing confrontation is hard, leading through conflict is harder, avoiding either is not an option." - Andrew Netschay
In this Disruptor podcast episode, Andrew Netschay of Warm Steel Consulting returns to the show to explore his Leadership Mindset module on Leading Through Confrontation.
Andrew shares strategies from his Enter The Leader program, focusing on conflict management and negotiation—critical skills for today's leaders.
He emphasizes emotional intelligence, empathy, and awareness as foundational tools for handling high-stakes negotiations and challenging discussions.
Drawing from his martial arts and boardroom experience, Andrew offers actionable advice on navigating challenging conversations, maintaining relationships, and driving positive outcomes.
Key Takeaways:
- Tough conversations are inevitable in leadership.
- Traditional conflict management approaches often fall short.
- Andrew's unique framework combines martial arts and business insights.
- Mastering these skills improves client relationships and employee retention.
- Practical tips include developing awareness, building empathy, and disarming difficult situations.
Andrew also discusses his Conflict Management Workshop, a 95-minute session that arms participants with essential tools like ACE’ing Conflict (Awareness, Connection, and Empathy) and Disarming Speech techniques.
Leaders will leave the workshop better prepared to tackle daily conflicts gracefully and respectfully, ensuring long-term client relationships and team satisfaction.
About Andrew Netschay:
Andrew is a leadership coach with over 35 years of experience in confrontation's emotional, mental, and physical aspects. He helps organizations and individuals develop skills to navigate challenging situations and achieve their goals.
Learn more: Warm Steel Coaching and connect with Andrew on LinkedIn
Comments or Questions? Send us a text
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Enter the leader knowing what to do when you
don't know what to do.
Hi everybody, I'm your host,john Kunz, and welcome to
another edition of the DisruptorPodcast.
For those that are new to ourshow, the Disruptor Series is
your blueprint forgroundbreaking innovation.
(00:22):
We started the podcast back inDecember of 2022 as a periodic
segment of the Apex podcast.
Our vision was to go beyondconventional wisdom by
confronting the status quo andexposing the raw power of
disruptive thinking.
Today we welcome back a guestthat we had on our earlier show,
Andrew Nitsche of Warm SteelConsulting, as this time we
(00:45):
explore Andrew's leadershipmindset module on leading
through confrontation.
We will discuss the valuableadvice on the pitfalls and the
mistakes many executives makewhen entering the ring high
stakes negotiation sessions.
Welcome back to the show,andrew.
How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Doing great.
John, Thanks for having me back.
It's always a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I have been having a good summer, although it's
starting to feel like fallaround here, it's starting to
get cool again, Nights aregetting longer and the days are
getting shorter.
I'm super excited to have youback on the show.
I thought we had a greatconversation on your Enter the
Leader series of modules andyour coaching programs.
I thought we had a greatconversation on your Enter the
Leader series of modules andyour coaching programs.
I thought we'd have a follow-upsession and talk about
(01:29):
negotiations and your programsand some of the things you've
learned over the years.
For those that were not on ourshow or haven't listened to our
show for the last time, whydon't you tell us a little bit
about your background, youreducation and your experiences?
Feel free to start anywhere youwant.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Okay, yeah, so quick recap my experience in
negotiation and managingconfrontation and conflict
really started in a boxing ring.
My initial goal as a youngteenager was to teach mixed
martial arts around the world.
I was always fascinated with thephysical aspects of managing
confrontation, understanding thepsychological components and
(02:09):
then delving into the emotionalcomponents, because emotions
drive your actions.
After many years of training andmany injuries, I stepped out of
the ring and into the boardroom.
In a variety of stressfulconversations I drew upon my
experience training in themartial arts and I started to
see a lot of parallels and Ifound you know, hearkening back
(02:32):
to the strategies I used whenteaching RCMP law enforcement
officers how to handleconfrontation extremely valuable
in handling tough conversationswith either an executive team,
shareholders, vendors, customersall tough conversations when
you're responsible for amulti-million dollar project.
(02:53):
In a nutshell, started offunderstanding the physical
aspects, really got fascinatedwith the psychology and
emotional aspects of toughconversations and that's what
really spawned Enter the Leader,which is a coaching system, a
leadership development programwith a framework that prepares
people for leading through toughtimes, because I don't think
(03:15):
you need that much preparationwhen times are rosy, when the
numbers are great and customersare happy and there is no
dissatisfaction in your ranks.
Those are rare circumstances.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Speaking of tough conversations, those of you who
may not know Andrew and Iprobably started working
together I don't know 15 yearsago by now on a project in
Vancouver, canada, with a bankthere.
It was a data center strategywhere we helped them figure out
what they needed to do and whereto relocate their data center.
The real purpose was to get itoff the active fault zone in the
(03:48):
Vancouver area and move theirmission-critical business
systems more inland so theywould be safer.
We certainly had our share ofinteresting and tough
conversations, but at the end ofthe day, both the client and
our team thought it was a veryvaluable project.
It went well.
So I'm not only friends with theclient, I'm friends with some
of the people on the projectitself.
(04:08):
That was a lot of fun,absolutely All right.
Well, I urge you and I beg youto write this down that managing
confrontation is hard.
Leading through conflict isharder.
Avoiding either is not anoption.
I was hoping you could expoundon that and how your approach
(04:29):
benefits companies and theirexecutives that provide this
negotiation training as part oftheir leadership development.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, absolutely.
People can't just shy away fromthose tough conversations.
People don't like deliveringbad news, but in the bad news
there's opportunities to resolveissues.
So I find that helpingexecutives manage their emotions
, understanding theirstakeholders' emotions when
they're delivering maybe notfantastic quarterly numbers,
(04:58):
those are key skills you need tohave, as we talked about.
When times are rosy andeverything's looking green,
they're easy conversations.
I got fascinated inconfrontation management,
negotiation management, when Istarted bridging the world from
martial arts into business.
One of my clients was topexecutive in a wealth management
(05:21):
company in North America.
He would share his negotiationtips with me and again, I was in
my early 20s and I just soakedit up like a sponge.
But I left those conversationsthinking well, it's easy for him
to do because his team managesabout $4 to $5 billion worth of
assets, so when he walks in thenegotiation negotiation he has a
(05:41):
ton of leverage.
So I was always wondering well,how does a little guy like me,
who's got very little jobexperience breaking into
technology and business and Idon't have five billion dollars
under management, so I don'thave that leverage how can I
start enhancing my position in anegotiation where maybe I'm not
holding all the cards.
(06:02):
That was the genesis of whatare some of the tools, the
tactics that you can use whenmaybe you're not in that
ultimate power position.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
You're working on a collaborative solution
negotiations is sort of viewedas a one-way street right.
It's like I'm going to get thebest deal I possibly can, and I
think what I hear you saying isin some cases, the guy you were
talking to had a big stick.
But I think, at the end of theday, successful negotiations is
(06:31):
where both parties come outahead.
Is that a fair statement?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Well, absolutely.
If you carry the big stick innegotiation, you may beat the
other guy into submission andclose the deal, but chances are
you're not going to benegotiating another deal when
this one's up right.
I think it's quite myopic tohandle a tough conversation by
just win or the typical win-win.
A lot of people use that.
Obviously you want tocollaborate on a solution, so
(06:57):
both parties walk away, wantingto come back in the future to
negotiate future agreements.
I try to look at it as gettingon the same page.
You can physically sit on thesame side of the table with your
negotiating partner.
That's a physiological tacticyou can use.
Some people see through thatwhen you're trying to build
rapport.
(07:18):
But if you can really empathize, you know, connect with the
other person, show them respect,show them that you really
understand their position, theywill see you less as an
adversary and someone whoactually understands you know
what their challenges are.
Yes, you probably have tocompromise, but if they see you
(07:38):
as someone who respects theirposition, empathizes with their
needs and challenges, you've gota much better chance of working
out an agreement.
It might not be quote perfect,you may not tick all the boxes,
but you're going to be talkingto that same person in a couple
of years, when it's time torenew a license agreement or
they have additional work foryour team.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Excellent.
They have additional work foryour team Excellent.
It's funny the second podcastin a row where I've gotten down
to the empathy theme, which isso important these days.
You really got to walk in theshoes of the people you're
working with.
If you understand what they'rethinking, what they're saying,
what they're doing, what they'refeeling the classic design
thinking, empathy mapping kindof approach it really does build
(08:19):
a trusting relationship becauseyou really are walking in their
shoes and they can see that.
They realize that you're tryingto help them, not just yourself
.
I think a lot of folks havethese common misconceptions or
make some mistakes or there's anumber of pitfalls that
organizations fall into whenthey're taking a more
traditional approach to conflictmanagement training.
(08:42):
I wonder if you could allude tosome of those that you've seen
over the years.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
One of the pitfalls is expecting short-term ROI.
You put your team through thistraining.
They're not going to walk outas master negotiators and all of
a sudden your profit margin isgoing to increase because all of
your agreements are justmagically 100% beneficial for
your term.
It doesn't happen that way.
It is a skill you developthrough practice and practice
takes time.
(09:07):
Managing the expectations oftaking an executive team through
this training it's not anovernight success story, but it
starts building that skill setthat only gets better with
practice.
So I try to get all the peoplewith 10-hour seminars to find
opportunities to practice dailywith your family, your children,
(09:27):
your spouse, buying a car,buying a house, just really
practicing those empathy skills.
The key pitfall is expecting ashort-term ROI.
If you avoid getting this typeof skill set for your team, you
may see some short-term losses,Because if you've got guys
walking into negotiations like abulldozer, you're going to have
(09:49):
not very happy clients,customers or shareholders.
So I would definitely say thisis a long-term approach.
Build a foundation, Encourageyour team to practice.
But, like I said, it's not anovernight success story.
It's going to be benefits thatyou realize over time.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Interesting.
Yeah, it's got to take the longroad.
So many things today.
Everybody wants somethinginstantly, but how does someone
get started?
How do you get going?
How do you get on a path thatleads to long-term value, as
opposed to just trying to hit aquick win?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, I'd say one of the foundational pillars of our
framework is developingawareness skills.
You don't need to take atwo-day workshop on building
awareness skills.
Start watching people's bodylanguage.
Start really listening to thetone behind the words when
someone's speaking.
(10:42):
Try to get an awareness of whatis the other person talking
about.
When they're happy, what arethey complaining about?
Because they're giving youindications on their needs.
Where they're dissatisfied.
These are opportunities for youto start that conversation.
Number one I would work onawareness skills.
With those awareness skills, asyou listen to the other person
(11:04):
describing maybe a deal thatwent south, they're actually
giving you some gold right now,potentially disarming them in a
kind way, taking some of thelandmines out of a confrontation
or negotiation by you couldstart telling them what you're
not going to do.
So an example I've used beforeis, if I know I have a client
who's really nervous about aproject running over time and
(11:28):
then there's licensing feessix-figure impacts if a project
isn't done on time.
I start out the conversationsaying I don't want to delay
this project.
I don't want to talk aboutslippage.
I really want to work on how dowe bring this project in on
time.
So you call out the elephant inthe room before they can start
shooting at it.
It actually works with familymembers as well.
(11:50):
My 10-year-old brought back areport card.
That wasn't that great.
I started out with saying look,max, I don't want to talk about
grounding you right now.
I want to talk about what arewe going to do to get these
grades up?
That lowers people's guards,because you take away what
they're expecting to be acontentious point and you just
start talking about where to gonext.
(12:10):
It sounds simple, but it reallydoes pay off A lot of these
things are fairly simple, butnot so simple in execution.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
right yeah, exactly Cool.
So I know you've worked with alot of different organizations,
people, program and projectleaders over the years.
What are some of the benefitsan individual might get by
taking on your unconventionalapproach to disruptive
leadership for developing yourmethodology, and someone that
(12:39):
wants to enhance communicationand negotiations abilities?
Speaker 2 (12:43):
The more you practice , the more this becomes part of
your comfort zone.
Right, If you start feeling thetightness in your chest or
accelerated heart rate when atough conversation is coming up,
try to refrain that to yourselfas okay.
Well, that is my signal to jumpin.
The more you do that, the morecomfortable you're going to get.
Standing on the other side of areally tough conversation is
(13:06):
growth, because you startnegotiating the smaller
contracts and then work up tothe multi-year, seven-figure
contract.
That becomes part of yourcomfort zone.
So the more you practice itlike a muscle right, you got to
work at it You're going to beable to take on a greater load.
One of the biggest benefits isconfidence, because people
(13:28):
aren't comfortable havinguncomfortable conversations.
If they could delegate that,they will.
If they could delay it, theywill.
A delayed tough conversationcan result in resentment.
You're actually buryinglandmines in the field in front
of you and you or yournegotiating partner may step on
(13:51):
them in six months to 12 months.
The key benefit from myexperience has been confidence
Confidence to take on more.
It really is personal growth.
You can surprise yourself withhow well you start navigating
through tough conversations themore you do it tough
conversations the more you do it, I could see.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Confidence breeds trust by the client and trust
breeds more work andresponsibilities from your
employer and your clients.
People look at you again as theleader in the room and
therefore will give you enhancedresponsibilities, hopefully
enhanced pay and all kinds ofgood things as you move on in
your career.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
And it's infectious too.
So that confidence you exude,naturally because you've walked
through the fire, so to speak,negotiating a raise.
If you hate doing it, chancesare no one's going to come up to
you and say, hey, you're doingsuch a great job, john, I want
to top up your salary by 20%just because I feel you're doing
a great job.
That doesn't happen, right.
So the more of thoseconversations you prepare for
(14:50):
and go through, the confidencebuilds.
And again, it is infectious.
You see a courageous leader.
You want to work with thatleader.
You see someone who's consumedby fear.
That's not a team you reallywant to join.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Right, awesome, all right.
I always ask one final questionbefore we get into the
conclusion of the show.
Is there?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
anything I haven't asked you that you'd like to
share with our audience.
One valuable lesson I'velearned in the past year is
really keeping an open mind tothe sources of information as
you prepare for a negotiation,to the sources of information as
you prepare for a negotiation Alesson I learned, and
thankfully it was a good one.
I'll just give you the bulletpoints.
A couple of years back, I waslooking at buying a new vehicle
(15:38):
and trading in my currentvehicle.
I test drove one vehicle and Irealized it wasn't for me.
I was going to go to the crossthe street and look at a
competitor's vehicle, but thatsalesperson sat me down and
tried to do the sales pitch onme when it came to the trade-in
value appraisal.
I asked them to put that inwriting and they actually put a
(16:01):
very attractive trade-in numberfor my current vehicle.
I thanked them for their time.
I went across the street and Iwas talking about vehicle number
two and in my negotiation withthem I mentioned I had been
across the street.
Long story short, they statedboth dealerships were owned by
the same company and had tohonor the trade and appraisal
(16:25):
from car vendor number one.
I walked away from car vendornumber one saying I'm never
going to back there, I'm moreinterested in that shiny vehicle
across the street.
I almost underestimated thevalue of spending an hour in
that dealership, but thattrade-in appraisal basically
saved me thousands of dollars.
So that little nugget ofinformation, which I did not
(16:48):
think would have any value forme, actually was quite, quite
important.
So the lesson I learned is,when you're preparing for a
negotiation, don't discount anytidbits of information you
gather along the way.
You never know you pull outthat card during that
negotiation.
It may have high ROI for you.
(17:08):
So just really have an openmind as you prepare for
negotiation, as you learn moreabout what the other, what's
important to that other person,because it can pay off big when
it comes down to the shortstrokes, interesting.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Great points.
How can people get started withyour leadership coaching?
What's the best way?
If they were interested inlearning more about what you do
with your coaching program.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Fastest way, just go to warmsteelcom slash coaching.
Or you can find me on LinkedIn.
I think there's only one,andrew Netshaw, on LinkedIn
right now.
Or look up Warm Steel, but yeah, the fastest way, warmsteelcom
slash coaching.
Up Warm Steel?
But yeah, the fastest way,warmsteelcom slash coaching.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Cool, and we'll of course put those links into the
show notes so people can findthem.
You mentioned your conflictmanagement workshop.
I'm assuming that's one of themodules that you do as part of
the Enter, the Leader program.
Give us a little bit more onthat as well, please.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Again, we focus on the four pillars of leadership
development and we start at thefoundation, which is emotions,
managing emotional states.
We talk about fear management,awareness, internal and external
, and we just work on strategiesto.
As a leader, you're typicallybreaking new ground, you want to
take your team to a largercustomer base, new services, et
(18:22):
cetera.
As a leader, you're responsiblefor growth and growth usually
means fear for a lot of people.
So we really hit a nail on thehead in terms of preparing
leaders for the fear and stressof leading, getting them armed
with strategies that buildstheir confidence, which is
infectious, and gets their teamsreally wanting to work with
(18:42):
that leader.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Spectacular All righty.
Thanks, andrew.
I took away some notes.
Let me just sort of summarizethem and we'll wrap this up.
Here's some of the few keypoints that I made notes to
remember.
Tough conversations areunavoidable, but having a team
trained to lead them with grace,compassion and respect will
keep your clients longer.
(19:05):
Providing this training to yourteam translates into higher
retention of your top talent,less burnout of your team and
happier clients that will staylonger and hopefully pay you
more money.
So that's what I took away,andrew.
For those listening, don'tforget to check out Andrew's
leadership coaching services.
The links will be in the shownotes.
(19:26):
Andrew, thanks again forsharing your insights into
leadership development andrevealing your genuine
strategies for overcomingobstacles to produce.
It's truly appreciated.
I always love having you on theshow.
I always love catching up withyou.
It's been a great friendshipover the years.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Thanks so much, john, it's been great.
Really appreciate theconversation today Excellent.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
All right everybody, I'm John Kuntz.
Thanks for joining us on thisedition of the Disruptor Podcast
.
Have a great day.
Enter the leader knowing what to do when you
don't know what to do.
Hi everybody, I'm your host,john Kunz, and welcome to
another edition of the DisruptorPodcast.
For those that are new to ourshow, the Disruptor Series is
your blueprint forgroundbreaking innovation.
(00:22):
We started the podcast back inDecember of 2022 as a periodic
segment of the Apex podcast.
Our vision was to go beyondconventional wisdom by
confronting the status quo andexposing the raw power of
disruptive thinking.
Today we welcome back a guestthat we had on our earlier show,
Andrew Nitsche of Warm SteelConsulting, as this time we
(00:45):
explore Andrew's leadershipmindset module on leading
through confrontation.
We will discuss the valuableadvice on the pitfalls and the
mistakes many executives makewhen entering the ring high
stakes negotiation sessions.
Welcome back to the show,andrew.
How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Doing great.
John, Thanks for having me back.
It's always a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
I have been having a good summer, although it's
starting to feel like fallaround here, it's starting to
get cool again, Nights aregetting longer and the days are
getting shorter.
I'm super excited to have youback on the show.
I thought we had a greatconversation on your Enter the
Leader series of modules andyour coaching programs.
I thought we had a greatconversation on your Enter the
Leader series of modules andyour coaching programs.
I thought we'd have a follow-upsession and talk about
(01:29):
negotiations and your programsand some of the things you've
learned over the years.
For those that were not on ourshow or haven't listened to our
show for the last time, whydon't you tell us a little bit
about your background, youreducation and your experiences?
Feel free to start anywhere youwant.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Okay, yeah, so quick recap my experience in
negotiation and managingconfrontation and conflict
really started in a boxing ring.
My initial goal as a youngteenager was to teach mixed
martial arts around the world.
I was always fascinated with thephysical aspects of managing
confrontation, understanding thepsychological components and
(02:09):
then delving into the emotionalcomponents, because emotions
drive your actions.
After many years of training andmany injuries, I stepped out of
the ring and into the boardroom.
In a variety of stressfulconversations I drew upon my
experience training in themartial arts and I started to
see a lot of parallels and Ifound you know, hearkening back
(02:32):
to the strategies I used whenteaching RCMP law enforcement
officers how to handleconfrontation extremely valuable
in handling tough conversationswith either an executive team,
shareholders, vendors, customersall tough conversations when
you're responsible for amulti-million dollar project.
(02:53):
In a nutshell, started offunderstanding the physical
aspects, really got fascinatedwith the psychology and
emotional aspects of toughconversations and that's what
really spawned Enter the Leader,which is a coaching system, a
leadership development programwith a framework that prepares
people for leading through toughtimes, because I don't think
(03:15):
you need that much preparationwhen times are rosy, when the
numbers are great and customersare happy and there is no
dissatisfaction in your ranks.
Those are rare circumstances.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Speaking of tough conversations, those of you who
may not know Andrew and Iprobably started working
together I don't know 15 yearsago by now on a project in
Vancouver, canada, with a bankthere.
It was a data center strategywhere we helped them figure out
what they needed to do and whereto relocate their data center.
The real purpose was to get itoff the active fault zone in the
(03:48):
Vancouver area and move theirmission-critical business
systems more inland so theywould be safer.
We certainly had our share ofinteresting and tough
conversations, but at the end ofthe day, both the client and
our team thought it was a veryvaluable project.
It went well.
So I'm not only friends with theclient, I'm friends with some
of the people on the projectitself.
(04:08):
That was a lot of fun,absolutely All right.
Well, I urge you and I beg youto write this down that managing
confrontation is hard.
Leading through conflict isharder.
Avoiding either is not anoption.
I was hoping you could expoundon that and how your approach
(04:29):
benefits companies and theirexecutives that provide this
negotiation training as part oftheir leadership development.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, absolutely.
People can't just shy away fromthose tough conversations.
People don't like deliveringbad news, but in the bad news
there's opportunities to resolveissues.
So I find that helpingexecutives manage their emotions
, understanding theirstakeholders' emotions when
they're delivering maybe notfantastic quarterly numbers,
(04:58):
those are key skills you need tohave, as we talked about.
When times are rosy andeverything's looking green,
they're easy conversations.
I got fascinated inconfrontation management,
negotiation management, when Istarted bridging the world from
martial arts into business.
One of my clients was topexecutive in a wealth management
(05:21):
company in North America.
He would share his negotiationtips with me and again, I was in
my early 20s and I just soakedit up like a sponge.
But I left those conversationsthinking well, it's easy for him
to do because his team managesabout $4 to $5 billion worth of
assets, so when he walks in thenegotiation negotiation he has a
(05:41):
ton of leverage.
So I was always wondering well,how does a little guy like me,
who's got very little jobexperience breaking into
technology and business and Idon't have five billion dollars
under management, so I don'thave that leverage how can I
start enhancing my position in anegotiation where maybe I'm not
holding all the cards.
(06:02):
That was the genesis of whatare some of the tools, the
tactics that you can use whenmaybe you're not in that
ultimate power position.
Speaker 1 (06:10):
You're working on a collaborative solution
negotiations is sort of viewedas a one-way street right.
It's like I'm going to get thebest deal I possibly can, and I
think what I hear you saying isin some cases, the guy you were
talking to had a big stick.
But I think, at the end of theday, successful negotiations is
(06:31):
where both parties come outahead.
Is that a fair statement?
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Well, absolutely.
If you carry the big stick innegotiation, you may beat the
other guy into submission andclose the deal, but chances are
you're not going to benegotiating another deal when
this one's up right.
I think it's quite myopic tohandle a tough conversation by
just win or the typical win-win.
A lot of people use that.
Obviously you want tocollaborate on a solution, so
(06:57):
both parties walk away, wantingto come back in the future to
negotiate future agreements.
I try to look at it as gettingon the same page.
You can physically sit on thesame side of the table with your
negotiating partner.
That's a physiological tacticyou can use.
Some people see through thatwhen you're trying to build
rapport.
(07:18):
But if you can really empathize, you know, connect with the
other person, show them respect,show them that you really
understand their position, theywill see you less as an
adversary and someone whoactually understands you know
what their challenges are.
Yes, you probably have tocompromise, but if they see you
(07:38):
as someone who respects theirposition, empathizes with their
needs and challenges, you've gota much better chance of working
out an agreement.
It might not be quote perfect,you may not tick all the boxes,
but you're going to be talkingto that same person in a couple
of years, when it's time torenew a license agreement or
they have additional work foryour team.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Excellent.
They have additional work foryour team Excellent.
It's funny the second podcastin a row where I've gotten down
to the empathy theme, which isso important these days.
You really got to walk in theshoes of the people you're
working with.
If you understand what they'rethinking, what they're saying,
what they're doing, what they'refeeling the classic design
thinking, empathy mapping kindof approach it really does build
(08:19):
a trusting relationship becauseyou really are walking in their
shoes and they can see that.
They realize that you're tryingto help them, not just yourself
.
I think a lot of folks havethese common misconceptions or
make some mistakes or there's anumber of pitfalls that
organizations fall into whenthey're taking a more
traditional approach to conflictmanagement training.
(08:42):
I wonder if you could allude tosome of those that you've seen
over the years.
Speaker 2 (08:46):
One of the pitfalls is expecting short-term ROI.
You put your team through thistraining.
They're not going to walk outas master negotiators and all of
a sudden your profit margin isgoing to increase because all of
your agreements are justmagically 100% beneficial for
your term.
It doesn't happen that way.
It is a skill you developthrough practice and practice
takes time.
(09:07):
Managing the expectations oftaking an executive team through
this training it's not anovernight success story, but it
starts building that skill setthat only gets better with
practice.
So I try to get all the peoplewith 10-hour seminars to find
opportunities to practice dailywith your family, your children,
(09:27):
your spouse, buying a car,buying a house, just really
practicing those empathy skills.
The key pitfall is expecting ashort-term ROI.
If you avoid getting this typeof skill set for your team, you
may see some short-term losses,Because if you've got guys
walking into negotiations like abulldozer, you're going to have
(09:49):
not very happy clients,customers or shareholders.
So I would definitely say thisis a long-term approach.
Build a foundation, Encourageyour team to practice.
But, like I said, it's not anovernight success story.
It's going to be benefits thatyou realize over time.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
Interesting.
Yeah, it's got to take the longroad.
So many things today.
Everybody wants somethinginstantly, but how does someone
get started?
How do you get going?
How do you get on a path thatleads to long-term value, as
opposed to just trying to hit aquick win?
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, I'd say one of the foundational pillars of our
framework is developingawareness skills.
You don't need to take atwo-day workshop on building
awareness skills.
Start watching people's bodylanguage.
Start really listening to thetone behind the words when
someone's speaking.
(10:42):
Try to get an awareness of whatis the other person talking
about.
When they're happy, what arethey complaining about?
Because they're giving youindications on their needs.
Where they're dissatisfied.
These are opportunities for youto start that conversation.
Number one I would work onawareness skills.
With those awareness skills, asyou listen to the other person
(11:04):
describing maybe a deal thatwent south, they're actually
giving you some gold right now,potentially disarming them in a
kind way, taking some of thelandmines out of a confrontation
or negotiation by you couldstart telling them what you're
not going to do.
So an example I've used beforeis, if I know I have a client
who's really nervous about aproject running over time and
(11:28):
then there's licensing feessix-figure impacts if a project
isn't done on time.
I start out the conversationsaying I don't want to delay
this project.
I don't want to talk aboutslippage.
I really want to work on how dowe bring this project in on
time.
So you call out the elephant inthe room before they can start
shooting at it.
It actually works with familymembers as well.
(11:50):
My 10-year-old brought back areport card.
That wasn't that great.
I started out with saying look,max, I don't want to talk about
grounding you right now.
I want to talk about what arewe going to do to get these
grades up?
That lowers people's guards,because you take away what
they're expecting to be acontentious point and you just
start talking about where to gonext.
(12:10):
It sounds simple, but it reallydoes pay off A lot of these
things are fairly simple, butnot so simple in execution.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
right yeah, exactly Cool.
So I know you've worked with alot of different organizations,
people, program and projectleaders over the years.
What are some of the benefitsan individual might get by
taking on your unconventionalapproach to disruptive
leadership for developing yourmethodology, and someone that
(12:39):
wants to enhance communicationand negotiations abilities?
Speaker 2 (12:43):
The more you practice , the more this becomes part of
your comfort zone.
Right, If you start feeling thetightness in your chest or
accelerated heart rate when atough conversation is coming up,
try to refrain that to yourselfas okay.
Well, that is my signal to jumpin.
The more you do that, the morecomfortable you're going to get.
Standing on the other side of areally tough conversation is
(13:06):
growth, because you startnegotiating the smaller
contracts and then work up tothe multi-year, seven-figure
contract.
That becomes part of yourcomfort zone.
So the more you practice itlike a muscle right, you got to
work at it You're going to beable to take on a greater load.
One of the biggest benefits isconfidence, because people
(13:28):
aren't comfortable havinguncomfortable conversations.
If they could delegate that,they will.
If they could delay it, theywill.
A delayed tough conversationcan result in resentment.
You're actually buryinglandmines in the field in front
of you and you or yournegotiating partner may step on
(13:51):
them in six months to 12 months.
The key benefit from myexperience has been confidence
Confidence to take on more.
It really is personal growth.
You can surprise yourself withhow well you start navigating
through tough conversations themore you do it tough
conversations the more you do it, I could see.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
Confidence breeds trust by the client and trust
breeds more work andresponsibilities from your
employer and your clients.
People look at you again as theleader in the room and
therefore will give you enhancedresponsibilities, hopefully
enhanced pay and all kinds ofgood things as you move on in
your career.
Speaker 2 (14:28):
And it's infectious too.
So that confidence you exude,naturally because you've walked
through the fire, so to speak,negotiating a raise.
If you hate doing it, chancesare no one's going to come up to
you and say, hey, you're doingsuch a great job, john, I want
to top up your salary by 20%just because I feel you're doing
a great job.
That doesn't happen, right.
So the more of thoseconversations you prepare for
(14:50):
and go through, the confidencebuilds.
And again, it is infectious.
You see a courageous leader.
You want to work with thatleader.
You see someone who's consumedby fear.
That's not a team you reallywant to join.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Right, awesome, all right.
I always ask one final questionbefore we get into the
conclusion of the show.
Is there?
Speaker 2 (15:16):
anything I haven't asked you that you'd like to
share with our audience.
One valuable lesson I'velearned in the past year is
really keeping an open mind tothe sources of information as
you prepare for a negotiation,to the sources of information as
you prepare for a negotiation Alesson I learned, and
thankfully it was a good one.
I'll just give you the bulletpoints.
A couple of years back, I waslooking at buying a new vehicle
(15:38):
and trading in my currentvehicle.
I test drove one vehicle and Irealized it wasn't for me.
I was going to go to the crossthe street and look at a
competitor's vehicle, but thatsalesperson sat me down and
tried to do the sales pitch onme when it came to the trade-in
value appraisal.
I asked them to put that inwriting and they actually put a
(16:01):
very attractive trade-in numberfor my current vehicle.
I thanked them for their time.
I went across the street and Iwas talking about vehicle number
two and in my negotiation withthem I mentioned I had been
across the street.
Long story short, they statedboth dealerships were owned by
the same company and had tohonor the trade and appraisal
(16:25):
from car vendor number one.
I walked away from car vendornumber one saying I'm never
going to back there, I'm moreinterested in that shiny vehicle
across the street.
I almost underestimated thevalue of spending an hour in
that dealership, but thattrade-in appraisal basically
saved me thousands of dollars.
So that little nugget ofinformation, which I did not
(16:48):
think would have any value forme, actually was quite, quite
important.
So the lesson I learned is,when you're preparing for a
negotiation, don't discount anytidbits of information you
gather along the way.
You never know you pull outthat card during that
negotiation.
It may have high ROI for you.
(17:08):
So just really have an openmind as you prepare for
negotiation, as you learn moreabout what the other, what's
important to that other person,because it can pay off big when
it comes down to the shortstrokes, interesting.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
Great points.
How can people get started withyour leadership coaching?
What's the best way?
If they were interested inlearning more about what you do
with your coaching program.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Fastest way, just go to warmsteelcom slash coaching.
Or you can find me on LinkedIn.
I think there's only one,andrew Netshaw, on LinkedIn
right now.
Or look up Warm Steel, but yeah, the fastest way, warmsteelcom
slash coaching.
Up Warm Steel?
But yeah, the fastest way,warmsteelcom slash coaching.
Speaker 1 (17:45):
Cool, and we'll of course put those links into the
show notes so people can findthem.
You mentioned your conflictmanagement workshop.
I'm assuming that's one of themodules that you do as part of
the Enter, the Leader program.
Give us a little bit more onthat as well, please.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Again, we focus on the four pillars of leadership
development and we start at thefoundation, which is emotions,
managing emotional states.
We talk about fear management,awareness, internal and external
, and we just work on strategiesto.
As a leader, you're typicallybreaking new ground, you want to
take your team to a largercustomer base, new services, et
(18:22):
cetera.
As a leader, you're responsiblefor growth and growth usually
means fear for a lot of people.
So we really hit a nail on thehead in terms of preparing
leaders for the fear and stressof leading, getting them armed
with strategies that buildstheir confidence, which is
infectious, and gets their teamsreally wanting to work with
(18:42):
that leader.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Spectacular All righty.
Thanks, andrew.
I took away some notes.
Let me just sort of summarizethem and we'll wrap this up.
Here's some of the few keypoints that I made notes to
remember.
Tough conversations areunavoidable, but having a team
trained to lead them with grace,compassion and respect will
keep your clients longer.
(19:05):
Providing this training to yourteam translates into higher
retention of your top talent,less burnout of your team and
happier clients that will staylonger and hopefully pay you
more money.
So that's what I took away,andrew.
For those listening, don'tforget to check out Andrew's
leadership coaching services.
The links will be in the shownotes.
(19:26):
Andrew, thanks again forsharing your insights into
leadership development andrevealing your genuine
strategies for overcomingobstacles to produce.
It's truly appreciated.
I always love having you on theshow.
I always love catching up withyou.
It's been a great friendshipover the years.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Thanks so much, john, it's been great.
Really appreciate theconversation today Excellent.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
All right everybody, I'm John Kuntz.
Thanks for joining us on thisedition of the Disruptor Podcast
.
Have a great day.
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