September 16, 2024 • 39 mins
In this episode of Ditto, Ashley Hatch and Professor Matt Moore discuss the concept of mental contrasting. They explain that mental contrasting involves conducting mental rehearsal of a desired future outcome while also acknowledging and planning for potential obstacles. They discuss the benefits of mental contrasting in various areas of life, including sports, business, and personal goals. They also highlight the importance of being self-aware and proactive in addressing weaknesses and challenges. Overall, mental contrasting helps individuals prepare for and overcome obstacles, leading to greater success.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
So something I read from our friend,
(00:02):
Ottigen, she was talking about using mental contrasting
in your goals or your dreams or your wishes
in preparation for the things that you want to achieve.
They found in research,
like if you have a big dream or a goal or a wish,
and you don't have any sort of plan
or you don't do any sort of mental contrasting,
a lot of times you don't achieve those goals.
(00:23):
It's really important when setting a goal
or if you have a big dream or a wish,
to look at potential obstacles
so then you are more prepared to overcome those obstacles,
to get to your goal.
It's why gyms in January are packed.
Then by the second week of February,
80% of people have already abandoned
(00:45):
their fitness resolutions.
It's because they're not contrasting
and expecting hurdles
and what they will do to overcome those hurdles.
We all understand when departments or Vert Mina
are physicians having an important job
(01:05):
and not getting the job or the switching that I need,
or even getting the job,
makes me feel more confident and carefree.
I can't help but notice that a lot of people
in their dressing room,
guys are like, well what can I do?
Or what can I do to get that job?
sound as radio and professional. I have headphones on because I'm at work slash office, the office
(01:28):
today but I'm doing well. It's been a great day, you know, teaching and doing the professor thing.
Nice. Yeah, how are you? I'm doing good. What was on the agenda today for your students?
So we wrapped up a really interesting chapter, very pertinent to the podcast.
Um, it was chapter four in our applied exercise psychology textbook for those that are wondering.
(01:54):
We wrapped up today, at least in terms of like the lecture and discussion.
The title of the chapter is the, I'm trying to think here, the psycho biological effects
of exercise and physical activity. And there was a large focus on stress and the role that stress
(02:15):
plays in one's life, especially as it pertains to exercise and physical activity. There was one
model that is really interesting. In fact, I'm going to bring it up because I think it's awesome.
You ready? Yeah. Okay, so here we go. Very theoretical. It's called the cross stressor
(02:36):
adaptation theory. Okay. Okay, so let me say that one more time, because with a lot of theories,
it's in the title. If you can break apart the title, it's like, Oh, I think this is kind of
what it's getting at cross stressor adaptation theory. And so what it's postulating is that
stress in one area of your life, life, physical activity or exercise can have a crossover,
(03:03):
a beneficial crossover into other areas of your life as it pertains to adapting to stress.
Does that make sense? Yeah. So let me ask you, Ash, being a professional athlete,
this is the discussion we had in class today. We need to bring you in as a guest speaker,
don't we? I'm going to figure that out. Okay, so let me ask you, Ash, how has the cross stressor
(03:29):
adaptation theory been relevant in your life? Meaning, let's start with physical activity and
direct your size. How has that domain of your life, and we'll even throw in like the physical
poll of being a professional soccer player. How has that had beneficial crossover to other areas
(03:50):
of your life? Well, I actually have, I want to make sure I understand it correctly. Sure.
So as you were explaining it, an instance popped into my mind of when I was actually
in college and I had broken up with a longtime boyfriend and I was very stressed and upset about
it. And the only thing that I could do to feel better was to go on a run. And so I went on a run
(04:16):
and I feel like that stress of running on my body, like helped me manage the stress of the breakup
and kind of like cleared my head and I was able to like release some anger. But is that an
appropriate example? Yes, I think it is. But here's going even further and maybe even a little more
clarity. Think of what running or just soccer, the physical toll of those domains does for you
(04:46):
holistically. So some of the things we talked about is like if you're engaged in regular exercise,
consistent exercise, be it being a professional soccer player or just going to a gym or a gym
or just going to the gym or going on runs consistently, there's so much that you can
learn from that experience or that those micro stress moments that apply to other areas of
(05:11):
your life. Like one of the things that we talked about was the consistency of being a soccer player
or going into exercise, like just consistently being diligent with something like exercise
or going to soccer practice can translate over to being a consistent partner in your relationship.
(05:32):
Okay. Yeah. And translate or crossover, right? Or crossover into you go do something else hard,
like public speaking. You're a soccer player, you're not trained to do public speaking.
And like most human beings, it's probably a very stressful experience. But you've done really hard
things before like play soccer at the highest level that you're able in theory or according to
(05:58):
this theory, utilize that experience as a facilitative kind of tool for public speaking.
Does that make sense? Yeah, totally. Yeah, that makes more sense. I feel like it's similar to
what we talked about with confidence of using past experiences to also help facilitate confidence
in maybe another domain, like you said, from like soccer to public speaking. Okay. Yeah,
(06:22):
that makes tons of sense. I feel like that's the reason why people say like soccer has made me into
the person that I am today. Soccer has given me the skills to do X, Y, and Z after my career.
Soccer has given me the confidence to start a podcast, to try new things, to be able to
(06:44):
teach other people how to play soccer or whatever it is. Yeah, I feel like it applies to all areas
of my life. Right, right. You know, something very relevant that I heard a number of years ago,
I think it was from a football coach, American football. And I know you've heard this before,
and probably in soccer as well. I think every sport could relate to this. He said, football
(07:10):
builds character. Or soccer builds character or softball builds character or whatever. I'm like,
yeah. But it's not like football, the game of football and scoring touchdowns is going to do
that. It's having to get up at 530 a.m. in the summer. It's having to work cohesively on a team,
(07:36):
even if you think the offensive tackle that stands right next to you is a big goofball.
It's having to deal with huge losses. You lost the state championship, you lost the national
championship, whatever it might be. Those are things that are going to, in theory, build the
(07:56):
character. I think it's very relevant to this cross-stressor theory idea is, once you're able
to adapt to the losses, once you're able to adapt and learn from being in a cohesive team unit and
work with other people, even if you don't like them, and once you're able to be disciplined and
get up at five in the morning and during the summers to go do workouts, that is what's building
(08:22):
adaptation or character in this, because like the coach said, for other domains of your life.
That's why sport can be so amazing if coaches, players are able to recognize that, right?
And recognize that it's these things. And if you ask many coaches, and I'm sure whenever you're
(08:43):
ready to retire from this game, Ashley, you'll look back and be like, yeah, it was great to win,
you know, Golden Boot. It was great to win NWSL League, but I really miss like sweating it out in
the gym with my teammates, practice random conversations, getting up together, going through
(09:04):
this grind, getting better, seeing mental, physical progression. Like it's those little things,
I'm guessing, that you'll remember a lot more that are going to 100% adapt to other areas of
your life, like being a spouse, maybe a mother, business woman, coach, whatever you might do.
Yeah, totally. Cool. Yeah. Well, thanks for teaching us.
(09:26):
That's what we talked about. Sorry, that was really long.
No, that was great. I think that was really good. And like you said, I do feel like the topic of
this, what did you call it? Cross-dresser adaptation theory.
Cross-dresser adaptation theory.
I always want to say cross-dresser. In fact, my students laugh.
It's kind of a tongue twister.
(09:47):
My students would always laugh at my kid. Don't let me say cross-dresser because I know
I'm going to say, but of course I did. Cross-dresser.
Yes. I feel like that is pretty relevant in what we're talking about today. Would you say?
Yeah. Yeah. I think this is included within that 100%.
Cool. Well, I'm going to have you introduce what we're talking about today because I know that
(10:11):
I'm not going to be able to articulate it as well as the professor. But the theme of our topic today
or our topic is mental contrasting. Would you like to enlighten us on what exactly mental contrasting
is? Yes, I will. And I know you're going to have some wonderful kind of anecdotal evidence,
(10:36):
if you will, to support this because of your career. So get ready for some awesome insight
stories on your end. Okay. Yeah. Mental contrasting. It's such an interesting thing, mostly within the
field of sports psychology, but just kind of largely within the broader field of psychology.
(10:57):
So mental contrasting was essentially first authored or experimented with by, here we go,
Ashley, by Oten Tingen, or Tingen. I think that's how you say her last name.
Sorry for you out there that I'm probably butchering the name. And Stephen. So Oten Tingen,
(11:19):
or Tingen and Stevens, and it was roughly 2009. Anyways, it's an application or a technique within
applied sport and performance psychology that essentially involves mental rehearsal and the
desired future outcome while simultaneously acknowledging slash contrasting that mental
(11:43):
contrasting and planning for obstacles that could or might stand in the way of you obtaining that
future state or the future goal that you're wanting to get to. Now, there's a lot to unpack there.
Essentially, you're conducting mental rehearsal as the as the individual within this
(12:05):
within this broader skill set of mental contrasting. So what's mental rehearsal?
Well, it's essentially two things visualization and imagery. Imagery. Well, let me start
visualization. Visualization, as you might guess, is the visual system. So you're seeing,
whether it's you closing your eyes and internally seeing something, or externally seeing something.
(12:26):
And sometimes that's you watching film, it can be that utilizing the power of the vision system
to incorporate this idea into mental contrasting. And then, and then like I mentioned, there's
imagery, imagery is involving all five of your senses. And so you're not only seeing it, and I
have to point to my senses so I can remember all five. You're not only seeing it, but you're
(12:48):
smelling it. You're tasting it, you're hearing it, and you're feeling it. That all five, two, three,
four, five. Yes, there we go. And so, you know, in teaching this skill set of mental contrasting,
or even more specifically mental rehearsal, I start with visualization, because it's one
(13:09):
simple thing. And for the most part, most human beings are pretty good about seeing things
internally or externally. Then as they, you know, kind of master this skill set of visualization,
I personally then move on to the incorporation of more senses. So then I invite them, okay,
let's write down the visual component of whatever scene that we're depicting you going into a
(13:34):
competition, let's say. They write it out. This is what they're seeing. They're seeing the fans,
they're seeing the coaches, they're seeing teammates, they're seeing the field, they're
seeing the ball, scoreboard, whatever. Now it's, oh, okay, let's, let's do smell. Can you smell
popcorn? Can you smell sweat? Can you smell the grass? I know freshly cut grass has a very
(13:56):
distinct smell. What are you smelling during this, this mental rehearsal or this mental contrasting?
And then it's seeing, or then it's tasting, and then it's hearing all of these things. And we're
writing this down, and we're going over it. Writing it down, and then we're going over it.
Now that's again mental rehearsal, but if we throw contrasting in there,
(14:19):
then you're throwing obstacles into this image, challenges, hurdles, if you will.
So some of the things I've done in the past is what are some common hurdles, challenges that you
expect to encounter, that are that you might encounter for this competition? And sometimes
(14:40):
it's, well, I don't know if I'm going to be starting. That could be a hurdle, especially
psychologically. And so I'm going to plan for me not knowing whether I'm going to be starting.
There's one. Number two, getting into the game. Well, maybe I don't feel physically ready. I need
a longer warm up, or I need to do something else to overcome feeling physically ready to actually
(15:03):
go and do full sprint, you know, getting into competition mode. And then it's seeing, you know,
I'm going to be doing this, and then it's, we can go into as much detail as they want with some of
these potential hurdles or challenges. I get the ball, none of my teammates are open. Where do I
pass it? What do I do with it? Okay, in those scenarios, this is what I would do. Or someone
(15:27):
gets past me. I'm a defender in soccer. What am I going to do? Okay, well, this is what I'm going to
do. So that's basically contrasting. And then we're throwing in this skill set of mental
with some subskill sets of visualization and imagery. Okay, that was a lot. So, Ashley,
yes, I know we've discussed this before. Yeah. And correct me if I'm wrong, you're a big fan
(15:55):
of writing some of this stuff down over the years. And going through some of this mental
rehearsal and even contrasting that within your rehearsal, what you could do if or not with when
things go wrong. So let me ask you a couple questions, I guess, what has this been like for
you over the last kind of five years, this skill set of contrasting mental rehearsal,
(16:18):
imagery, visualization? And then what is it? How was it helped? Like, what specifically what have
you done to integrate this powerful kind of skill set or tool, if you will? I know that was a lot.
Yeah, definitely. I mean, I feel like we've had a lot of conversations throughout our time together.
And we talked like I know last episode, we talked about, or not last couple episodes ago, we talked
(16:42):
about helpful and hurtful, instead of using like positive and negative. But when it comes to like
mental contrasting, I think it's really important to address, like you said, the obstacles that you
might encounter along your way to your ultimate goal, because like, you're going to encounter
something, it's never smooth sailing. So then when you do encounter these obstacles, you are more
(17:05):
prepared, more motivated, and you have a little bit more self belief to overcome these obstacles.
And so like, an example that I can think of is something that's outside of my control is the
weather. So especially like in the summer, sometimes we'll have to deal with these like crazy
summer storms, whether we're on the road or whether we're at home. So like something I do,
(17:28):
especially in preparation for a game that I've worked with you on is like writing out my plan
for the next day, like when I'm going to wake up, when I'm going to eat, the timing of my nap.
But also, as a part of that exercise, when I'm just like mentally preparing the next day for the
game, I have already checked the weather to see if there's a potential of a storm, or if it's going
(17:51):
to be hot, or if it's going to be cold. And when I do that, and I see okay, it's gonna be hot, like
I'm already like doing things to prepare myself mentally and physically to prepare for the heat.
If it's gonna be cold, I'm doing things mentally and physically to prepare myself for the cold.
If there's a potential of a storm, I'm already mentally preparing myself by saying like, okay,
(18:15):
what am I going to do if we do have a weather delay? Like, what's my eating look like? What are
some plans? Like plans B, when I have to like come in and we have a 30 to 2 hour break and I have to
eat, like okay, what's available in the locker room? Okay, I can make myself a PB and J. Like,
these are some things. I'm not worrying over them, I'm just recognizing them. And I think that's where
(18:38):
the positive and negative conversation can, I feel like, hinder mental contrasting, is if you like
stress and worry over these obstacles, it's more of it's preparation. And so if you're just giving
yourself all the tools and all the knowledge that you can to use to best prepare yourself, to set
(18:59):
yourself up for success. So those are some examples of ways that I would use mental contrasting, like
on a game day, is just weather, like looking at the weather and how can I best prepare myself
for whatever obstacles the weather may present during game day. Yeah, I love that. With you
like tactically integrating this into your routines, is it like the night before competition? Is it
(19:27):
10 minutes before? Like in the locker room? What does that look like kind of tactically?
Well, to be honest, I always checked the weather at the beginning of the week,
because I'm just curious of what the week's going to look like, especially with training and stuff.
But say we do have potential of weather or storm or lightning. Usually, like so if I get to the
(19:53):
locker room, I try not to like worry about it until like someone from the staff like tells us
we have to stop playing. So I like, I intentionally like don't stress or don't worry about it because
I know that the right people will tell me what's supposed to happen when it's supposed to happen.
And then if we do have a weather delay, then I'm like, okay, like, did we just warm up? Did we just
play? Like, what does my body need in this moment to then go back out there and perform and be ready
(20:18):
for whatever it is. I've experienced on the flip side of having no plan, no experience. I'm obviously
drawing from previous experience of not being prepared or not knowing how to handle a weather
delay. I've had some crazy weather delays in my time and then to be self. So I feel like that's
helped prepare me. So I do know what I need. But yeah, for example, we had a weather delay a couple
(20:39):
years ago where I had already taken my caffeine before the game. And let's say time that I already
take it. And so we had to come in after the first like halfway through the first half. And I know,
I think we came in maybe after warm up like it was really soon. So like, I was super like,
jittery, like ready for the game. And I had just taken my caffeine and there was nothing I could
(21:02):
do about it, obviously at that moment. So I just did what I could to kind of just like, stay relaxed
and not get too tired and like stress from the caffeine. So I ate some snacks. I went into the,
my teammates were listening to like really loud music in the locker rooms. I went into the training
room, turned off the lights, put a towel over my head and just laid there until they told us like,
(21:26):
until I told us like, okay, we have 30 minutes, like maybe start like everyone start like getting
ready. And so then I was like, okay, I'm gonna get up, eat maybe eat another snack and then start
getting ready. Because I didn't want to, I didn't want to be too like hyped, too excited and exert
too much energy without knowing like how long we were going to be in there for and then play the
game, whatever. And it worked great. But in that moment, I knew what I needed to do. I didn't like,
(21:53):
I didn't have that plan obviously like written out. But I was like, aware enough to be like,
okay, like I should probably like, just like calm down, relax. Okay, this the training room,
the lights aren't on in there, it kind of feels nice. I'm going to lay down, put a towel over my
head and just like take a little nap. And so I just like laid in there until it was time. So a
(22:14):
little bit of it is like scripted or preparation or like from previous experience. And then a lot
of it is like in the moment recognizing like what I need to be able to overcome this obstacle.
In the moment though, in my opinion, you wouldn't have been able to adapt to that had you not been
proactively prepared beforehand. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And that's the whole point is just like any other
(22:39):
skill set, it's, it's something that needs to be integrated and then deliberately and consistently
practice, right? For you to be able to adapt to those very unexpected type of situations like you
have been mentioning, you know, funny you mentioned the towel thing. I remember hearing a story a
number of years ago about Pele, Brazilian great soccer player. Everybody knows who Pele is. If
(23:02):
you don't, then I don't know who you are. Before games, he would conduct mental rehearsal. And I
don't know the specifics. I just heard kind of general stories about him. I think it was like
locking himself in a closet near the locker room, half hour or so before game time before kickoff.
(23:25):
And he would lay a towel down on the floor and close his eyes. It looked like he was asleep,
but he was going through everything that he was about to go do in the upcoming game in the next
half hour. And he was contrasting, ooh, if this player, this team does this because they're,
they're really good about shots on goal, or they tack a lot, or they're, they stay back and they're
(23:49):
really good at defending. This is how I can adjust. And this is what I'm going to do. And I would say
it was what one of the many, many, many things that made him great is his mental capacity to,
to engage in those types of things and involve, you know, the contrasting involve the mental
rehearsal within his game. You know, there's a study I was trying to read, you know, before the
(24:13):
podcast, actually, I was trying to think about some of these, some of the research that has been
conducted over the years regarding this. And there's this kind of seminal piece of research a
number of years ago, I think his name is Alvaro Pasqual Leon. I think he's at Harvard, I could be
(24:33):
wrong. He's at one of the really prestigious schools. Anyways, he and his colleagues conducted
this research around the effects of mental imagery on brain activity and muscle activation,
specifically with downhill skiers. And so what they did, and I think this is even on YouTube,
(24:53):
is they put them in an fMRI machine, and then they put electrodes all over their body.
Then they gave them this scenario of kind of a typical downhill ski race, whether it was,
I don't know, at the Olympics in Italy or here in Park City and Utah, I don't know where it was,
they picked a race they were very familiar with. Then in the study, it showed brain activation,
(25:20):
it showed brain activation, and in particular, it showed the same brain regions that were involved
in actual execution of the skill just light up as they're mentally rehearsing going through
their course. So brain activation is going crazy motor activation of this motor cortex.
(25:43):
Then there's this phenomenon called motor imagery that happened as well. So muscle activation. So
not only were brain regions firing up as they're rehearsing what's going on, going down the hill,
as you know, downhill skiers are going, well, like 115 miles per hour down the mountain.
Way too fast, yeah.
Oh my gosh, I know. But they also analyzed that muscle activation, again, which is called motor
(26:08):
imagery was happening as well. So the study essentially suggesting that the brain is sending
signals to these muscles, similar to those that would be sending them during the actual or real
physical activity of them doing the event. So while the muscles weren't actually producing the same
force or the same movement, there was activation nonetheless. And so there's been other studies
(26:34):
and there's been other studies like it as well. But this one in particular is so,
as they say in academia, salient or important. Because it showed how powerful, you know, rehearsal,
mental contrasting is especially in athletics. So what it does, and I tell athletes this all the
(26:55):
time with imagery and visualization in particular, what it's doing, essentially, if we had to throw
one kind of overarching theme, is it's providing you with comfort for something that's uncomfortable,
or it's preparing you for something that's a little foreign. As you go into the actual activity.
(27:19):
So in theory, when you get to the activity, it's not going to be as foreign, or it's not going to
be as uncomfortable because you've been there before in your mind. So you're practicing
everything beforehand. So when you get to the pitch or you get to the top of the mountain to go down
as a downhill skier, it's in theory, you know, not as scary. And there's not as much pressure,
(27:43):
not saying it's zero pressure or zero stress. It's just more manageable because you've been able to
conduct this beforehand. So anyways. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like what you just explained is also
why the cross stressor 100% applies so well. Bravo on that connection. Thank you. Thank you.
(28:05):
I should be one of your students. Just kidding. I basically am. But yeah, like as you were talking
about that, and you're talking about telling the story of Pele, it also just reminded me of
our preparation as a team. And when we're prepping for our opponent and the things that our coach
presents us with is like, he presents us with their areas of weakness, but he also presents
(28:29):
us with their areas of strength. So as we're going up against an opponent, like here's what we can
expect to be difficult when we face them. And so I feel like when that actually plays out in the
game, it's really, it's so much easier as a team to be like, oh, we knew this was coming and this
is how we're going to combat it, or this is how we're going to overcome it. Because it also helps
(28:54):
us all be on the same page. And I think back also to Aubrey's episode when she talked about her
preparation for games and how she studies the forwards that she's about to play against,
because she ends all week, she practices those types of shots or those type of crosses that the
team or the opponent likes, typically likes to do. And so therefore she's ready and she's seen it
(29:19):
before, or she's just prepared and it's not a surprise. And so it's kind of cool to connect
those dots as we're talking about mental contrasting. Yeah, it's a very, very powerful
tool. Here's the caveat, or I guess the kind of word of caution with this. I know people out there
(29:41):
being like, you've heard this before in kind of pop media, like, why would I visualize or imagine
you know, obstacles or challenges? Like, isn't that going to just do detriment? It's like, well,
the objective is to visualize them or imagine them. But then you overcoming them, or addressing them,
that is key to these rehearsals or these contracting contrasting skill sets. And so make sure
(30:12):
you're doing that within these images. So that again, proactivity is coming into play when those
challenges actually present themselves. And maybe it's not the exact challenge or the exact hurdle
that you're picturing. That's okay. But guess what? It's still going to cross over to other
potential challenges that are maybe or most likely really similar. I remember in fact,
(30:37):
preparing as a mental performance coach, you're essentially a teacher, you know, teaching whoever
the population is. And in this case, I was I was I had a job with the military. And so I was preparing
as a teacher to go teach soldiers in the US Army. My colleagues beforehand wanted to role play.
(30:58):
And I hate role play. I just don't enjoy like just pretending that this is a mental
performance coach. I just don't enjoy like just pretending that this is what's going to be happening.
Yeah. However, my colleagues, you know, they pretended to be a soldier that wasn't really
understanding what I was saying. And so he kept raising his hand like, wait, what do you mean?
(31:20):
What do you mean? What do you mean? And then there was another colleague who was kind of a dick,
like, that won't work for me. Come on, get off the stage. And it wasn't fun, like during the
role play, right. And so I had to adapt and do my best with my colleagues. But guess what I
encountered, you know, similar things in the actual scenario when I was actually teaching soldiers.
(31:41):
And I was that much more prepared because I prepared beforehand, not only mentally,
but physically and actually teaching the content. And so, you know, if you're in business,
or if you're not an athlete, there's 100% ways that you can mentally contrast mentally rehearse,
whatever it is that you're trying to do, maybe you're going on a huge sales pitch,
(32:06):
and you're going to their building or their office, and you have 20 minutes in a PowerPoint
to talk about why you think they should buy your product. Go over that mentally and physically,
but especially mentally, and the contrasting viewpoints or the contrasting scenarios. So when
(32:27):
it happens, or if it happens, man, you're, you're just that much more prepared to knock the sales
out of the park and bring home a huge bonus. Yeah, totally. It's funny that you mentioned
that example, because Jeff and I are actually watching Shark Tank this morning. And you can
tell which I don't know if you would call them contestants, but which contestants are prepared
(32:48):
and which ones aren't, or which ones go in there with just this like, optimism, because their
product is so great, but they weren't mentally prepared for whatever scenario and then the
contestants who are just like, so dialed in on the negotiations and what they want, but also like
their, their confidence and belief in their product and they like get it done. And then you
(33:11):
see the ones that are like rattled because things don't go how they hoped they would. And then
they don't stay like composed in front of the sharks. So that's interesting that you brought
up that example, but I think also, so something I read from our friend, Auti-Gan, how did you say it?
I don't know how to say her name and I feel so bad. But anyway, she was talking about using
(33:38):
mental contrasting in like, in your goals or your dreams or your wishes and like preparation
for the things that you want to achieve. And in the video I was watching, she was saying that
they found in research, like if you have a big dream or a goal or a wish and you don't have any
(34:00):
sort of plan or you don't do any sort of mental contrasting, a lot of times you don't achieve
those goals because like, you, I feel like I'm not going to articulate it as well as she did, so
people should look it up. But essentially you have all this like, you know, like,
these high hopes and then as soon as something kind of gets in the way or it becomes challenging
(34:22):
or difficult, it's really easy for you to like quit or that your positivity of the whole situation
just essentially goes down. And so she said that it's really important when like setting a goal
or if you have a big dream or a wish to look at potential obstacles so then you are more prepared
(34:43):
to overcome those obstacles to get to your goal. And I just feel like it just makes things a little
bit like more realistic and more tangible of like, okay, like I want to be a billionaire.
Okay, what does that look like? There's probably going to be a ton of obstacles that I'm going to
have to face to actually get there. But if you're kind of thinking about, okay, these are the
(35:07):
obstacles I might encounter, but like they're obstacles, they're not robed. I'm not going to
completely like, it's not going to like derail me and I'm not going to get to my goal. I'm just
going to have to like work through them. But anyway, that's kind of a way that she applies it
to just everyday life or everyday goals or dreams that people might have. Yeah, it's why
(35:30):
I was a personal trainer for years. It's why gyms in January are packed.
But then by the second week of February, that's not very long, a month and a half.
80% of people have already abandoned their fitness resolutions. There's been studies showing that
that is huge. And I think in part, like you were just saying, it's because they're not
(35:53):
contrasting and expecting hurdles and what they will do to overcome those hurdles, lack of
motivation, laziness, nobody going to the gym with them. They're not seeing any results after a month,
nutrition goes by the wayside, whatever it might be. And I think a huge reason is that
(36:15):
they're not incorporating some of these things that I think, well, that I know
could be so facilitated in that process, whether it's fitness or being a billionaire or whatever
it might be. Yeah. Yeah. And she talks about like, recognize that you're not going to be
like recognizing the obstacles and then also having a plan to overcome those obstacles.
(36:36):
So I think recognizing is important. And then also having a plan just helps you continue to
move in the direction that you're wanting to move. It may not be at the rate you want it to be
because of the obstacle, but you're still moving in the right direction. So I thought that was
pretty cool. But I feel like it also is all encompassing with what you say when you say
mental flexibility, because there's so many things in life that are outside of our influence and
(37:02):
that we can't control, that we need to be able to be flexible around. And that skill is really
important and it applies to all aspects of life. A soccer example that I can think of is being told
you're not starting and then all of a sudden in five minutes before the game, you're starting
because someone on the starting roster gets hurt during warmups.
(37:24):
How are you going to handle a situation like that? And you can't handle it if you're not prepared
mentally to be able to go out and do something that maybe wasn't planned from the beginning.
Yeah, totally. To kind of wrap this up, I think it goes perfectly with this. I heard a quote,
I think his name is Jim Schwartz. He's been a coach in the NFL for years now. He said,
(37:49):
the greatest predictor of success in the NFL is guys that are self-aware.
I think this goes into it. You're not only self-aware of your strengths and what you can do at a
really high level, but you're also aware of what you're weak at. And you're proactive about
(38:10):
strengthening that contrasting strengths, weaknesses, etc. moving forward. So you're
have a plan to address as much of it as you possibly can and be as prepared as you possibly
can. I think it goes into that. So, anyways. Yeah, totally. I think that's a great spot to end.
I think that was really well said. Thanks for sharing.
(38:31):
Rock the mic.
Yes, mic.
All right. Well, thanks everyone for joining us. Hopefully this was an interesting topic. I know
this is one that is always interesting to me, this concept. So, yes. Thanks Ash. I loved your
insight in your stories.
Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for your insight. Hopefully everyone enjoyed it. Go practice
(38:54):
some mental contrasting and hopefully it helps you achieve your wildest dreams.
Yes. Ditto out.
Peace.
So something I read from our friend,
(00:02):
Ottigen, she was talking about using mental contrasting
in your goals or your dreams or your wishes
in preparation for the things that you want to achieve.
They found in research,
like if you have a big dream or a goal or a wish,
and you don't have any sort of plan
or you don't do any sort of mental contrasting,
a lot of times you don't achieve those goals.
(00:23):
It's really important when setting a goal
or if you have a big dream or a wish,
to look at potential obstacles
so then you are more prepared to overcome those obstacles,
to get to your goal.
It's why gyms in January are packed.
Then by the second week of February,
80% of people have already abandoned
(00:45):
their fitness resolutions.
It's because they're not contrasting
and expecting hurdles
and what they will do to overcome those hurdles.
We all understand when departments or Vert Mina
are physicians having an important job
(01:05):
and not getting the job or the switching that I need,
or even getting the job,
makes me feel more confident and carefree.
I can't help but notice that a lot of people
in their dressing room,
guys are like, well what can I do?
Or what can I do to get that job?
sound as radio and professional. I have headphones on because I'm at work slash office, the office
(01:28):
today but I'm doing well. It's been a great day, you know, teaching and doing the professor thing.
Nice. Yeah, how are you? I'm doing good. What was on the agenda today for your students?
So we wrapped up a really interesting chapter, very pertinent to the podcast.
Um, it was chapter four in our applied exercise psychology textbook for those that are wondering.
(01:54):
We wrapped up today, at least in terms of like the lecture and discussion.
The title of the chapter is the, I'm trying to think here, the psycho biological effects
of exercise and physical activity. And there was a large focus on stress and the role that stress
(02:15):
plays in one's life, especially as it pertains to exercise and physical activity. There was one
model that is really interesting. In fact, I'm going to bring it up because I think it's awesome.
You ready? Yeah. Okay, so here we go. Very theoretical. It's called the cross stressor
(02:36):
adaptation theory. Okay. Okay, so let me say that one more time, because with a lot of theories,
it's in the title. If you can break apart the title, it's like, Oh, I think this is kind of
what it's getting at cross stressor adaptation theory. And so what it's postulating is that
stress in one area of your life, life, physical activity or exercise can have a crossover,
(03:03):
a beneficial crossover into other areas of your life as it pertains to adapting to stress.
Does that make sense? Yeah. So let me ask you, Ash, being a professional athlete,
this is the discussion we had in class today. We need to bring you in as a guest speaker,
don't we? I'm going to figure that out. Okay, so let me ask you, Ash, how has the cross stressor
(03:29):
adaptation theory been relevant in your life? Meaning, let's start with physical activity and
direct your size. How has that domain of your life, and we'll even throw in like the physical
poll of being a professional soccer player. How has that had beneficial crossover to other areas
(03:50):
of your life? Well, I actually have, I want to make sure I understand it correctly. Sure.
So as you were explaining it, an instance popped into my mind of when I was actually
in college and I had broken up with a longtime boyfriend and I was very stressed and upset about
it. And the only thing that I could do to feel better was to go on a run. And so I went on a run
(04:16):
and I feel like that stress of running on my body, like helped me manage the stress of the breakup
and kind of like cleared my head and I was able to like release some anger. But is that an
appropriate example? Yes, I think it is. But here's going even further and maybe even a little more
clarity. Think of what running or just soccer, the physical toll of those domains does for you
(04:46):
holistically. So some of the things we talked about is like if you're engaged in regular exercise,
consistent exercise, be it being a professional soccer player or just going to a gym or a gym
or just going to the gym or going on runs consistently, there's so much that you can
learn from that experience or that those micro stress moments that apply to other areas of
(05:11):
your life. Like one of the things that we talked about was the consistency of being a soccer player
or going into exercise, like just consistently being diligent with something like exercise
or going to soccer practice can translate over to being a consistent partner in your relationship.
(05:32):
Okay. Yeah. And translate or crossover, right? Or crossover into you go do something else hard,
like public speaking. You're a soccer player, you're not trained to do public speaking.
And like most human beings, it's probably a very stressful experience. But you've done really hard
things before like play soccer at the highest level that you're able in theory or according to
(05:58):
this theory, utilize that experience as a facilitative kind of tool for public speaking.
Does that make sense? Yeah, totally. Yeah, that makes more sense. I feel like it's similar to
what we talked about with confidence of using past experiences to also help facilitate confidence
in maybe another domain, like you said, from like soccer to public speaking. Okay. Yeah,
(06:22):
that makes tons of sense. I feel like that's the reason why people say like soccer has made me into
the person that I am today. Soccer has given me the skills to do X, Y, and Z after my career.
Soccer has given me the confidence to start a podcast, to try new things, to be able to
(06:44):
teach other people how to play soccer or whatever it is. Yeah, I feel like it applies to all areas
of my life. Right, right. You know, something very relevant that I heard a number of years ago,
I think it was from a football coach, American football. And I know you've heard this before,
and probably in soccer as well. I think every sport could relate to this. He said, football
(07:10):
builds character. Or soccer builds character or softball builds character or whatever. I'm like,
yeah. But it's not like football, the game of football and scoring touchdowns is going to do
that. It's having to get up at 530 a.m. in the summer. It's having to work cohesively on a team,
(07:36):
even if you think the offensive tackle that stands right next to you is a big goofball.
It's having to deal with huge losses. You lost the state championship, you lost the national
championship, whatever it might be. Those are things that are going to, in theory, build the
(07:56):
character. I think it's very relevant to this cross-stressor theory idea is, once you're able
to adapt to the losses, once you're able to adapt and learn from being in a cohesive team unit and
work with other people, even if you don't like them, and once you're able to be disciplined and
get up at five in the morning and during the summers to go do workouts, that is what's building
(08:22):
adaptation or character in this, because like the coach said, for other domains of your life.
That's why sport can be so amazing if coaches, players are able to recognize that, right?
And recognize that it's these things. And if you ask many coaches, and I'm sure whenever you're
(08:43):
ready to retire from this game, Ashley, you'll look back and be like, yeah, it was great to win,
you know, Golden Boot. It was great to win NWSL League, but I really miss like sweating it out in
the gym with my teammates, practice random conversations, getting up together, going through
(09:04):
this grind, getting better, seeing mental, physical progression. Like it's those little things,
I'm guessing, that you'll remember a lot more that are going to 100% adapt to other areas of
your life, like being a spouse, maybe a mother, business woman, coach, whatever you might do.
Yeah, totally. Cool. Yeah. Well, thanks for teaching us.
(09:26):
That's what we talked about. Sorry, that was really long.
No, that was great. I think that was really good. And like you said, I do feel like the topic of
this, what did you call it? Cross-dresser adaptation theory.
Cross-dresser adaptation theory.
I always want to say cross-dresser. In fact, my students laugh.
It's kind of a tongue twister.
(09:47):
My students would always laugh at my kid. Don't let me say cross-dresser because I know
I'm going to say, but of course I did. Cross-dresser.
Yes. I feel like that is pretty relevant in what we're talking about today. Would you say?
Yeah. Yeah. I think this is included within that 100%.
Cool. Well, I'm going to have you introduce what we're talking about today because I know that
(10:11):
I'm not going to be able to articulate it as well as the professor. But the theme of our topic today
or our topic is mental contrasting. Would you like to enlighten us on what exactly mental contrasting
is? Yes, I will. And I know you're going to have some wonderful kind of anecdotal evidence,
(10:36):
if you will, to support this because of your career. So get ready for some awesome insight
stories on your end. Okay. Yeah. Mental contrasting. It's such an interesting thing, mostly within the
field of sports psychology, but just kind of largely within the broader field of psychology.
(10:57):
So mental contrasting was essentially first authored or experimented with by, here we go,
Ashley, by Oten Tingen, or Tingen. I think that's how you say her last name.
Sorry for you out there that I'm probably butchering the name. And Stephen. So Oten Tingen,
(11:19):
or Tingen and Stevens, and it was roughly 2009. Anyways, it's an application or a technique within
applied sport and performance psychology that essentially involves mental rehearsal and the
desired future outcome while simultaneously acknowledging slash contrasting that mental
(11:43):
contrasting and planning for obstacles that could or might stand in the way of you obtaining that
future state or the future goal that you're wanting to get to. Now, there's a lot to unpack there.
Essentially, you're conducting mental rehearsal as the as the individual within this
(12:05):
within this broader skill set of mental contrasting. So what's mental rehearsal?
Well, it's essentially two things visualization and imagery. Imagery. Well, let me start
visualization. Visualization, as you might guess, is the visual system. So you're seeing,
whether it's you closing your eyes and internally seeing something, or externally seeing something.
(12:26):
And sometimes that's you watching film, it can be that utilizing the power of the vision system
to incorporate this idea into mental contrasting. And then, and then like I mentioned, there's
imagery, imagery is involving all five of your senses. And so you're not only seeing it, and I
have to point to my senses so I can remember all five. You're not only seeing it, but you're
(12:48):
smelling it. You're tasting it, you're hearing it, and you're feeling it. That all five, two, three,
four, five. Yes, there we go. And so, you know, in teaching this skill set of mental contrasting,
or even more specifically mental rehearsal, I start with visualization, because it's one
(13:09):
simple thing. And for the most part, most human beings are pretty good about seeing things
internally or externally. Then as they, you know, kind of master this skill set of visualization,
I personally then move on to the incorporation of more senses. So then I invite them, okay,
let's write down the visual component of whatever scene that we're depicting you going into a
(13:34):
competition, let's say. They write it out. This is what they're seeing. They're seeing the fans,
they're seeing the coaches, they're seeing teammates, they're seeing the field, they're
seeing the ball, scoreboard, whatever. Now it's, oh, okay, let's, let's do smell. Can you smell
popcorn? Can you smell sweat? Can you smell the grass? I know freshly cut grass has a very
(13:56):
distinct smell. What are you smelling during this, this mental rehearsal or this mental contrasting?
And then it's seeing, or then it's tasting, and then it's hearing all of these things. And we're
writing this down, and we're going over it. Writing it down, and then we're going over it.
Now that's again mental rehearsal, but if we throw contrasting in there,
(14:19):
then you're throwing obstacles into this image, challenges, hurdles, if you will.
So some of the things I've done in the past is what are some common hurdles, challenges that you
expect to encounter, that are that you might encounter for this competition? And sometimes
(14:40):
it's, well, I don't know if I'm going to be starting. That could be a hurdle, especially
psychologically. And so I'm going to plan for me not knowing whether I'm going to be starting.
There's one. Number two, getting into the game. Well, maybe I don't feel physically ready. I need
a longer warm up, or I need to do something else to overcome feeling physically ready to actually
(15:03):
go and do full sprint, you know, getting into competition mode. And then it's seeing, you know,
I'm going to be doing this, and then it's, we can go into as much detail as they want with some of
these potential hurdles or challenges. I get the ball, none of my teammates are open. Where do I
pass it? What do I do with it? Okay, in those scenarios, this is what I would do. Or someone
(15:27):
gets past me. I'm a defender in soccer. What am I going to do? Okay, well, this is what I'm going to
do. So that's basically contrasting. And then we're throwing in this skill set of mental
with some subskill sets of visualization and imagery. Okay, that was a lot. So, Ashley,
yes, I know we've discussed this before. Yeah. And correct me if I'm wrong, you're a big fan
(15:55):
of writing some of this stuff down over the years. And going through some of this mental
rehearsal and even contrasting that within your rehearsal, what you could do if or not with when
things go wrong. So let me ask you a couple questions, I guess, what has this been like for
you over the last kind of five years, this skill set of contrasting mental rehearsal,
(16:18):
imagery, visualization? And then what is it? How was it helped? Like, what specifically what have
you done to integrate this powerful kind of skill set or tool, if you will? I know that was a lot.
Yeah, definitely. I mean, I feel like we've had a lot of conversations throughout our time together.
And we talked like I know last episode, we talked about, or not last couple episodes ago, we talked
(16:42):
about helpful and hurtful, instead of using like positive and negative. But when it comes to like
mental contrasting, I think it's really important to address, like you said, the obstacles that you
might encounter along your way to your ultimate goal, because like, you're going to encounter
something, it's never smooth sailing. So then when you do encounter these obstacles, you are more
(17:05):
prepared, more motivated, and you have a little bit more self belief to overcome these obstacles.
And so like, an example that I can think of is something that's outside of my control is the
weather. So especially like in the summer, sometimes we'll have to deal with these like crazy
summer storms, whether we're on the road or whether we're at home. So like something I do,
(17:28):
especially in preparation for a game that I've worked with you on is like writing out my plan
for the next day, like when I'm going to wake up, when I'm going to eat, the timing of my nap.
But also, as a part of that exercise, when I'm just like mentally preparing the next day for the
game, I have already checked the weather to see if there's a potential of a storm, or if it's going
(17:51):
to be hot, or if it's going to be cold. And when I do that, and I see okay, it's gonna be hot, like
I'm already like doing things to prepare myself mentally and physically to prepare for the heat.
If it's gonna be cold, I'm doing things mentally and physically to prepare myself for the cold.
If there's a potential of a storm, I'm already mentally preparing myself by saying like, okay,
(18:15):
what am I going to do if we do have a weather delay? Like, what's my eating look like? What are
some plans? Like plans B, when I have to like come in and we have a 30 to 2 hour break and I have to
eat, like okay, what's available in the locker room? Okay, I can make myself a PB and J. Like,
these are some things. I'm not worrying over them, I'm just recognizing them. And I think that's where
(18:38):
the positive and negative conversation can, I feel like, hinder mental contrasting, is if you like
stress and worry over these obstacles, it's more of it's preparation. And so if you're just giving
yourself all the tools and all the knowledge that you can to use to best prepare yourself, to set
(18:59):
yourself up for success. So those are some examples of ways that I would use mental contrasting, like
on a game day, is just weather, like looking at the weather and how can I best prepare myself
for whatever obstacles the weather may present during game day. Yeah, I love that. With you
like tactically integrating this into your routines, is it like the night before competition? Is it
(19:27):
10 minutes before? Like in the locker room? What does that look like kind of tactically?
Well, to be honest, I always checked the weather at the beginning of the week,
because I'm just curious of what the week's going to look like, especially with training and stuff.
But say we do have potential of weather or storm or lightning. Usually, like so if I get to the
(19:53):
locker room, I try not to like worry about it until like someone from the staff like tells us
we have to stop playing. So I like, I intentionally like don't stress or don't worry about it because
I know that the right people will tell me what's supposed to happen when it's supposed to happen.
And then if we do have a weather delay, then I'm like, okay, like, did we just warm up? Did we just
play? Like, what does my body need in this moment to then go back out there and perform and be ready
(20:18):
for whatever it is. I've experienced on the flip side of having no plan, no experience. I'm obviously
drawing from previous experience of not being prepared or not knowing how to handle a weather
delay. I've had some crazy weather delays in my time and then to be self. So I feel like that's
helped prepare me. So I do know what I need. But yeah, for example, we had a weather delay a couple
(20:39):
years ago where I had already taken my caffeine before the game. And let's say time that I already
take it. And so we had to come in after the first like halfway through the first half. And I know,
I think we came in maybe after warm up like it was really soon. So like, I was super like,
jittery, like ready for the game. And I had just taken my caffeine and there was nothing I could
(21:02):
do about it, obviously at that moment. So I just did what I could to kind of just like, stay relaxed
and not get too tired and like stress from the caffeine. So I ate some snacks. I went into the,
my teammates were listening to like really loud music in the locker rooms. I went into the training
room, turned off the lights, put a towel over my head and just laid there until they told us like,
(21:26):
until I told us like, okay, we have 30 minutes, like maybe start like everyone start like getting
ready. And so then I was like, okay, I'm gonna get up, eat maybe eat another snack and then start
getting ready. Because I didn't want to, I didn't want to be too like hyped, too excited and exert
too much energy without knowing like how long we were going to be in there for and then play the
game, whatever. And it worked great. But in that moment, I knew what I needed to do. I didn't like,
(21:53):
I didn't have that plan obviously like written out. But I was like, aware enough to be like,
okay, like I should probably like, just like calm down, relax. Okay, this the training room,
the lights aren't on in there, it kind of feels nice. I'm going to lay down, put a towel over my
head and just like take a little nap. And so I just like laid in there until it was time. So a
(22:14):
little bit of it is like scripted or preparation or like from previous experience. And then a lot
of it is like in the moment recognizing like what I need to be able to overcome this obstacle.
In the moment though, in my opinion, you wouldn't have been able to adapt to that had you not been
proactively prepared beforehand. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And that's the whole point is just like any other
(22:39):
skill set, it's, it's something that needs to be integrated and then deliberately and consistently
practice, right? For you to be able to adapt to those very unexpected type of situations like you
have been mentioning, you know, funny you mentioned the towel thing. I remember hearing a story a
number of years ago about Pele, Brazilian great soccer player. Everybody knows who Pele is. If
(23:02):
you don't, then I don't know who you are. Before games, he would conduct mental rehearsal. And I
don't know the specifics. I just heard kind of general stories about him. I think it was like
locking himself in a closet near the locker room, half hour or so before game time before kickoff.
(23:25):
And he would lay a towel down on the floor and close his eyes. It looked like he was asleep,
but he was going through everything that he was about to go do in the upcoming game in the next
half hour. And he was contrasting, ooh, if this player, this team does this because they're,
they're really good about shots on goal, or they tack a lot, or they're, they stay back and they're
(23:49):
really good at defending. This is how I can adjust. And this is what I'm going to do. And I would say
it was what one of the many, many, many things that made him great is his mental capacity to,
to engage in those types of things and involve, you know, the contrasting involve the mental
rehearsal within his game. You know, there's a study I was trying to read, you know, before the
(24:13):
podcast, actually, I was trying to think about some of these, some of the research that has been
conducted over the years regarding this. And there's this kind of seminal piece of research a
number of years ago, I think his name is Alvaro Pasqual Leon. I think he's at Harvard, I could be
(24:33):
wrong. He's at one of the really prestigious schools. Anyways, he and his colleagues conducted
this research around the effects of mental imagery on brain activity and muscle activation,
specifically with downhill skiers. And so what they did, and I think this is even on YouTube,
(24:53):
is they put them in an fMRI machine, and then they put electrodes all over their body.
Then they gave them this scenario of kind of a typical downhill ski race, whether it was,
I don't know, at the Olympics in Italy or here in Park City and Utah, I don't know where it was,
they picked a race they were very familiar with. Then in the study, it showed brain activation,
(25:20):
it showed brain activation, and in particular, it showed the same brain regions that were involved
in actual execution of the skill just light up as they're mentally rehearsing going through
their course. So brain activation is going crazy motor activation of this motor cortex.
(25:43):
Then there's this phenomenon called motor imagery that happened as well. So muscle activation. So
not only were brain regions firing up as they're rehearsing what's going on, going down the hill,
as you know, downhill skiers are going, well, like 115 miles per hour down the mountain.
Way too fast, yeah.
Oh my gosh, I know. But they also analyzed that muscle activation, again, which is called motor
(26:08):
imagery was happening as well. So the study essentially suggesting that the brain is sending
signals to these muscles, similar to those that would be sending them during the actual or real
physical activity of them doing the event. So while the muscles weren't actually producing the same
force or the same movement, there was activation nonetheless. And so there's been other studies
(26:34):
and there's been other studies like it as well. But this one in particular is so,
as they say in academia, salient or important. Because it showed how powerful, you know, rehearsal,
mental contrasting is especially in athletics. So what it does, and I tell athletes this all the
(26:55):
time with imagery and visualization in particular, what it's doing, essentially, if we had to throw
one kind of overarching theme, is it's providing you with comfort for something that's uncomfortable,
or it's preparing you for something that's a little foreign. As you go into the actual activity.
(27:19):
So in theory, when you get to the activity, it's not going to be as foreign, or it's not going to
be as uncomfortable because you've been there before in your mind. So you're practicing
everything beforehand. So when you get to the pitch or you get to the top of the mountain to go down
as a downhill skier, it's in theory, you know, not as scary. And there's not as much pressure,
(27:43):
not saying it's zero pressure or zero stress. It's just more manageable because you've been able to
conduct this beforehand. So anyways. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like what you just explained is also
why the cross stressor 100% applies so well. Bravo on that connection. Thank you. Thank you.
(28:05):
I should be one of your students. Just kidding. I basically am. But yeah, like as you were talking
about that, and you're talking about telling the story of Pele, it also just reminded me of
our preparation as a team. And when we're prepping for our opponent and the things that our coach
presents us with is like, he presents us with their areas of weakness, but he also presents
(28:29):
us with their areas of strength. So as we're going up against an opponent, like here's what we can
expect to be difficult when we face them. And so I feel like when that actually plays out in the
game, it's really, it's so much easier as a team to be like, oh, we knew this was coming and this
is how we're going to combat it, or this is how we're going to overcome it. Because it also helps
(28:54):
us all be on the same page. And I think back also to Aubrey's episode when she talked about her
preparation for games and how she studies the forwards that she's about to play against,
because she ends all week, she practices those types of shots or those type of crosses that the
team or the opponent likes, typically likes to do. And so therefore she's ready and she's seen it
(29:19):
before, or she's just prepared and it's not a surprise. And so it's kind of cool to connect
those dots as we're talking about mental contrasting. Yeah, it's a very, very powerful
tool. Here's the caveat, or I guess the kind of word of caution with this. I know people out there
(29:41):
being like, you've heard this before in kind of pop media, like, why would I visualize or imagine
you know, obstacles or challenges? Like, isn't that going to just do detriment? It's like, well,
the objective is to visualize them or imagine them. But then you overcoming them, or addressing them,
that is key to these rehearsals or these contracting contrasting skill sets. And so make sure
(30:12):
you're doing that within these images. So that again, proactivity is coming into play when those
challenges actually present themselves. And maybe it's not the exact challenge or the exact hurdle
that you're picturing. That's okay. But guess what? It's still going to cross over to other
potential challenges that are maybe or most likely really similar. I remember in fact,
(30:37):
preparing as a mental performance coach, you're essentially a teacher, you know, teaching whoever
the population is. And in this case, I was I was I had a job with the military. And so I was preparing
as a teacher to go teach soldiers in the US Army. My colleagues beforehand wanted to role play.
(30:58):
And I hate role play. I just don't enjoy like just pretending that this is a mental
performance coach. I just don't enjoy like just pretending that this is what's going to be happening.
Yeah. However, my colleagues, you know, they pretended to be a soldier that wasn't really
understanding what I was saying. And so he kept raising his hand like, wait, what do you mean?
(31:20):
What do you mean? What do you mean? And then there was another colleague who was kind of a dick,
like, that won't work for me. Come on, get off the stage. And it wasn't fun, like during the
role play, right. And so I had to adapt and do my best with my colleagues. But guess what I
encountered, you know, similar things in the actual scenario when I was actually teaching soldiers.
(31:41):
And I was that much more prepared because I prepared beforehand, not only mentally,
but physically and actually teaching the content. And so, you know, if you're in business,
or if you're not an athlete, there's 100% ways that you can mentally contrast mentally rehearse,
whatever it is that you're trying to do, maybe you're going on a huge sales pitch,
(32:06):
and you're going to their building or their office, and you have 20 minutes in a PowerPoint
to talk about why you think they should buy your product. Go over that mentally and physically,
but especially mentally, and the contrasting viewpoints or the contrasting scenarios. So when
(32:27):
it happens, or if it happens, man, you're, you're just that much more prepared to knock the sales
out of the park and bring home a huge bonus. Yeah, totally. It's funny that you mentioned
that example, because Jeff and I are actually watching Shark Tank this morning. And you can
tell which I don't know if you would call them contestants, but which contestants are prepared
(32:48):
and which ones aren't, or which ones go in there with just this like, optimism, because their
product is so great, but they weren't mentally prepared for whatever scenario and then the
contestants who are just like, so dialed in on the negotiations and what they want, but also like
their, their confidence and belief in their product and they like get it done. And then you
(33:11):
see the ones that are like rattled because things don't go how they hoped they would. And then
they don't stay like composed in front of the sharks. So that's interesting that you brought
up that example, but I think also, so something I read from our friend, Auti-Gan, how did you say it?
I don't know how to say her name and I feel so bad. But anyway, she was talking about using
(33:38):
mental contrasting in like, in your goals or your dreams or your wishes and like preparation
for the things that you want to achieve. And in the video I was watching, she was saying that
they found in research, like if you have a big dream or a goal or a wish and you don't have any
(34:00):
sort of plan or you don't do any sort of mental contrasting, a lot of times you don't achieve
those goals because like, you, I feel like I'm not going to articulate it as well as she did, so
people should look it up. But essentially you have all this like, you know, like,
these high hopes and then as soon as something kind of gets in the way or it becomes challenging
(34:22):
or difficult, it's really easy for you to like quit or that your positivity of the whole situation
just essentially goes down. And so she said that it's really important when like setting a goal
or if you have a big dream or a wish to look at potential obstacles so then you are more prepared
(34:43):
to overcome those obstacles to get to your goal. And I just feel like it just makes things a little
bit like more realistic and more tangible of like, okay, like I want to be a billionaire.
Okay, what does that look like? There's probably going to be a ton of obstacles that I'm going to
have to face to actually get there. But if you're kind of thinking about, okay, these are the
(35:07):
obstacles I might encounter, but like they're obstacles, they're not robed. I'm not going to
completely like, it's not going to like derail me and I'm not going to get to my goal. I'm just
going to have to like work through them. But anyway, that's kind of a way that she applies it
to just everyday life or everyday goals or dreams that people might have. Yeah, it's why
(35:30):
I was a personal trainer for years. It's why gyms in January are packed.
But then by the second week of February, that's not very long, a month and a half.
80% of people have already abandoned their fitness resolutions. There's been studies showing that
that is huge. And I think in part, like you were just saying, it's because they're not
(35:53):
contrasting and expecting hurdles and what they will do to overcome those hurdles, lack of
motivation, laziness, nobody going to the gym with them. They're not seeing any results after a month,
nutrition goes by the wayside, whatever it might be. And I think a huge reason is that
(36:15):
they're not incorporating some of these things that I think, well, that I know
could be so facilitated in that process, whether it's fitness or being a billionaire or whatever
it might be. Yeah. Yeah. And she talks about like, recognize that you're not going to be
like recognizing the obstacles and then also having a plan to overcome those obstacles.
(36:36):
So I think recognizing is important. And then also having a plan just helps you continue to
move in the direction that you're wanting to move. It may not be at the rate you want it to be
because of the obstacle, but you're still moving in the right direction. So I thought that was
pretty cool. But I feel like it also is all encompassing with what you say when you say
mental flexibility, because there's so many things in life that are outside of our influence and
(37:02):
that we can't control, that we need to be able to be flexible around. And that skill is really
important and it applies to all aspects of life. A soccer example that I can think of is being told
you're not starting and then all of a sudden in five minutes before the game, you're starting
because someone on the starting roster gets hurt during warmups.
(37:24):
How are you going to handle a situation like that? And you can't handle it if you're not prepared
mentally to be able to go out and do something that maybe wasn't planned from the beginning.
Yeah, totally. To kind of wrap this up, I think it goes perfectly with this. I heard a quote,
I think his name is Jim Schwartz. He's been a coach in the NFL for years now. He said,
(37:49):
the greatest predictor of success in the NFL is guys that are self-aware.
I think this goes into it. You're not only self-aware of your strengths and what you can do at a
really high level, but you're also aware of what you're weak at. And you're proactive about
(38:10):
strengthening that contrasting strengths, weaknesses, etc. moving forward. So you're
have a plan to address as much of it as you possibly can and be as prepared as you possibly
can. I think it goes into that. So, anyways. Yeah, totally. I think that's a great spot to end.
I think that was really well said. Thanks for sharing.
(38:31):
Rock the mic.
Yes, mic.
All right. Well, thanks everyone for joining us. Hopefully this was an interesting topic. I know
this is one that is always interesting to me, this concept. So, yes. Thanks Ash. I loved your
insight in your stories.
Yeah. Thank you. Thanks for your insight. Hopefully everyone enjoyed it. Go practice
(38:54):
some mental contrasting and hopefully it helps you achieve your wildest dreams.
Yes. Ditto out.
Peace.
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