May 27, 2024 • 45 mins
Jeff Dickamore joins Ash and Matt on Episode 6 and shares his journey in the film industry. He initially pursued a career in medicine and international law but always had a passion for storytelling and acting. Meeting his wife Aurora and their shared love for storytelling propelled them to pursue careers in the film industry. They decided to take the leap into the unknown and moved to LA to develop their own stories and maintain creative control. Jeff discusses the challenges and triumphs of pursuing a career in the film industry while balancing family life. He emphasizes the importance of belief and purpose in sustaining motivation. Jeff also addresses the misconceptions about the industry and highlights the positive impact of storytelling.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
you guys were moving out to LA.
(00:01):
I remember going, oh, sweet, did you get a gig?
This is what you said, I remember.
No, not really, but we're gonna go figure it out.
I think there's a whole lot of people right in this world
that don't want the uncomfortable.
And so why for you was that something that you sought out?
If you're willing to go into the unknown,
whoever's going with you has to be ready for that as well.
We were like really passionate about,
we're gonna tell our own stories,
we're gonna develop our own projects.
(00:21):
We're not even gonna try to get an agent,
we're not gonna be on casting networks and stuff.
We are going to develop stories that we wanna tell
and get them made.
Welcome everybody to another episode of Ditto,
to today's episode of Ditto.
What a pleasure it is to have one of my really good friends,
(00:43):
Jeff Dickmore with us today.
An award-winning filmmaker and actor based in LA,
which seems to be kind of a congregation
for many of those folks.
He most often works with his brilliant wife, Aurora,
who I also know, who is wonderful,
who is currently, and he just told me this today
and this is phenomenal.
She's enrolled as a master's student
(01:04):
at USC School of Cinematic Arts.
Tell me Jeff really quickly, is it ranked number one?
Like is it the best cinematic arts program in the country?
Maybe the world, I don't know.
So there are different rankings for different programs.
It is, the program she's in is called
the Peter Sark program for creative producing
(01:27):
and film, TV and new media.
I think it's the official title.
It's the only program like it.
And it's, I mean, it's, from what I understand,
it's the best program.
It sure seems like the best program and yeah,
it's pretty phenomenal.
Do you wanna go get here really quick?
She can come and take your place if that's okay.
(01:48):
Seriously though.
It's a little swap.
She's not all over us.
No more really, no more really.
Okay, let me keep going.
So Jeff, their film work, when I say there again,
I'm referring to Aurora and Jeff,
has played at festivals across the world,
including Slam Dance and the Austin Film Festival
with Austin putting them on the list
(02:10):
of the 25 screenwriters to watch in 2021.
That's so cool.
Their pilot, the anxious taxidermist,
which is such a great title,
won best in fast at the Women in Comedy Festival
and best international pilot at Pilot Light TV Fest,
among other awards.
Amazing.
(02:30):
Keep going.
Here we go.
During his undergrad, Jeff worked as a,
get this, Romanian cinema research assistant.
Really quick, what the heck does that mean?
I had one teacher who's particularly interested
in writing a lot about Romanian cinema.
(02:51):
And so she, like, I worked for her a little bit
to kind of do some research about what was going on.
And during the time there was this thing called
the new wave on the Black Sea, which is like,
was this, there was a lot of attention
being pulled towards Romania and Romanian cinema.
It was doing well at Cannes, things like that.
(03:13):
So that's what that was.
Did you get to travel to Romania and do some work
or is it all?
Not for this job.
It was just a lot of online stuff.
And then while I was there for a different project, though,
I was able to buy a bunch of DVDs
and bring them back to her.
And anyway, so yeah.
Yeah, okay.
(03:34):
Here we go, we're continuing.
He also taught French 101, so bonjour.
He's fluent in French
and received a Kennedy International Scholar Award
during this time period.
We're continuing on.
Jeff, after pulling his law school applications,
Jeff studied acting at, let me get this right, hold on.
(03:54):
Le Cor Florent.
Laurent, yeah.
Le Cor Florent.
Le Cor Florent in Paris.
Then went on to earn his MFA at the University of Tennessee.
That's where we met, the University of Tennessee.
So go Vols at the Clarence Brown Theater.
So really quickly, I actually lived with Jeff and Aurora.
(04:17):
We lived beneath them in their basement.
So we rented their house.
They lived on top, their cute family.
At the time they had two kids.
We had one and we rented a basement from them.
And we were both graduate students
at the University of Tennessee.
That's where we met.
Cute.
In Knoxville, Tennessee,
one of the most wonderful places on earth.
(04:40):
Okay, so there at UT, which is University of Tennessee,
when I say UT, it's not University of Texas, people.
Come on.
There he was awarded a Thomas Fellowship
for his original adaptation of Tarzan of the Apes.
I actually went and saw this,
what would you call it, a final project?
Your master, like your thesis?
It was a workshop performance of the.
(05:00):
Yeah, amazing.
And talk about the physique of developing to be Tarzan.
I remember how hard you were working out
at that time period.
I don't know if you've kept that up, but it was fantastic.
It was a physical theater piece.
Again, a wonderful to go watch involving
large scale puppetry and aerial acrobatics.
(05:21):
And so for me, knowing very little about this,
it was like Cirque de Soleil, acting story narrative.
It was wonderful to be, again, to be a part of
and to watch I remember seeing it.
It was all so novel and wonderful.
Okay, I'm almost done.
Jeff's still us saying he works by day
(05:42):
as a content strategist at Ben Labs
and sometimes acts in movies and commercials.
By night and weekend, he and Aurora, his wife,
write screenplays and are currently preparing
for their first independent feature film called Too Soon.
I'm gonna touch on this here in just a minute.
Shooting it this summer, so here in what, two months or so?
(06:02):
At least from where we're recording this episode.
And then most importantly, last but certainly not least,
Jeff and Aurora have three amazing kids,
almost four, is what I mean, so she's pregnant?
Our three year old is almost four.
Oh, almost four.
Sorry.
So I listed our three kids and the three year old is,
(06:22):
it will be four, so there's nine, seven, and almost four.
The three year old is almost four.
Jeff's like, oh.
I read almost four.
Just three kids.
Three kids, only three, not four, don't mistake it.
But you do have a dog, so maybe that could be
your fourth child, a long-legged, doe-eyed,
black shelter dog named Eliza Minnelli.
(06:44):
All right, again, wonderful human being.
Thanks for coming on, Jeff.
You are officially our second guest on this show.
And for many reasons, I reached out to Jeff to come on.
Now, obviously Ashley's a professional soccer player,
and I'm coming from this field of sport, mostly sport,
but also performance psychology.
(07:05):
So for me especially, it's fascinating to study,
talk about, learn from other quote unquote performers,
whether they're athletes or actors or directors
or business persons or whatever it might be.
And so I wanted to get another performance domain
on the show and I knew you, and so luckily I reached out.
(07:28):
And here we are.
Here we are, for better or for worse.
You got it.
I know, yeah.
Okay, so there's Jeff.
Ashley's gonna get the ball rolling with some questions
and get some of this discussion going.
Yeah, well, like Matt said, thank you so much, Jeff,
for joining us.
We're really excited to talk to you and hear more
about your journey and your profession.
(07:48):
Super glad Matt has friends so we can invite them
onto our podcast.
Only a few, just one of two.
Perfect.
So I guess my first question is pretty simple.
We would just like to know how you got into the profession
that you are in today.
Is it something that you always wanted to do?
(08:10):
Did you stumble into it?
But can you kind of just walk us through
how you got to be such a cool person
after hearing your really long, amazing bio?
Oh man, so it definitely is a long story.
If you want to truncate any of this and be like,
(08:32):
great, we got that, let's move on.
Look into that.
But it was a really long process and a long journey
because, so I grew up in bountiful Utah,
bountiful Utah.
And I was always very interested in storytelling.
I remember writing stories, writing plays,
(08:54):
like from really young age, elementary school.
I started acting in elementary school
at a local theater called Page's Lane Theater,
which was in Centerville.
And now like the new iteration of that same theater
is called Centerpoint Legacy Theater,
which is also in Centerville.
But I, so I didn't know anyone who was a professional actor
(09:23):
that was able to do that full time.
And like, I was the youngest of four boys
and I really, like I saw it, like the important thing,
that like the principles from the faith community
I was raised in like was all about like,
(09:45):
as a man, you become a provider for your family
and you do everything you can to like reach your potential
and like make an impact in the world and all this stuff.
And I did finance, like I did well in school
and I saw acting as kind of this like lesser thing.
(10:06):
And my aspirations were to be a doctor
and to like go into like Doctors Without Borders
and I got involved in some humanitarian work internationally
from a pretty young age.
And I really just, I knew I was wanted to be an actor
and a storyteller, a writer, all these things,
(10:28):
but it never seemed like a viable path for me,
especially if I was gonna be like an upstanding Mormon boy,
you know what I mean?
And so I tried for the longest time
to do all the other things.
When I started college, my undergrad,
I was only in like the pre-med track for like two weeks
and then I switched to the international studies.
(10:50):
I realized as much as I had really enjoyed
like emergency medicine and I had been
first responder certified in high school
and all this stuff and I really enjoyed that.
I liked taking care of people and knowing like what to do
in an emergency situation,
but I wasn't that good at science.
(11:12):
But like chemistry, I was supposed to be in chemistry 105,
I think, and I was starting in chemistry 101
because I was like, oh, I don't know about that.
And like all of it was like, this is not for me.
And so after a lot of like thought and prayer
and really like kind of digging into what my life
like as a doctor, I decided to pivot and went in
(11:35):
to go into international law and diplomacy instead.
So again, I was thinking like on this grand global scale,
like how do I help people?
How do I like make the biggest impact and all that?
And so I wasn't acting at the time
and I was plugging along, you know,
I was gonna be some kind of international mover
and shaker to like make the world a more humane place.
(11:57):
And about two years into my undergrad,
I started, let's see,
I was living in the French house at BYU and-
Well, what does that mean?
The French house?
So the foreign language student residence,
the Flisser they called it, I think they still have it.
(12:20):
So you live in apartments where every apartment
has a native speaker of that language
and you're supposed to speak that language all the time
when you're in the apartment.
And then they, you would have dinner together
with all of the apartments of your language every weekday.
Maybe it was only Monday through Thursday, can't remember.
(12:41):
But so you're always speaking the language.
And I served a mission for the LDS church in Romania.
So I spoke Romanian and that has a Latin base to it.
And so I wanted to get another language
and a lot of my interests were in Africa
and a little bit of Southeast Asia
because of colonialism, like French colonialism,
(13:02):
there was quite a bit of French influence in those areas.
So I was like, okay, I'll learn French
because I wanted to learn Arabic, but that was too hard
and I didn't have enough time.
I was having to work my way through school
to pay for things.
And so I was like, okay, I'll learn French,
get that under my belt and then I'll wait until someone's
paying me to learn Arabic and then I'll learn Arabic.
Smart.
(13:22):
But French like kind of took off for me.
And so I ended up learning Arabic.
Is this unique to BYU, these houses?
I think there are programs like this in other places,
but it seems like a pretty BYU thing.
It does, I was gonna say, this seems very BYU.
I mean, how advantageous to learn a language.
Yeah, but yeah, sorry, keep going, Jeff.
(13:44):
So this is too long of a story,
but while I was in the French house,
my friend, Aline, was a film student.
She was one of the native speakers in the French house
and her friend at the time was doing his capstone in film
and I was talking to her about it and I ended up auditioning.
(14:09):
I was like, this sounds really amazing.
Like the whole concept for the short film,
I really, like, I think I could do this.
So I auditioned for it, I got it and, you know,
I hadn't acted since high school.
And so as soon as I started, this like was kind of,
you know, a tipping point, like I broke down that barrier,
(14:29):
whatever you wanna say, and I never stopped acting
after that.
It just went from like this short film
to like one thing after the other,
just acting in different things.
And I started writing,
I was involved in some development stuff,
but even then I was still preparing for law school.
(14:50):
And it wasn't until, like I had taken the LSAT,
all my applications were in, I paid all those fees
and I was getting responses back.
Like I was, we listed at some great schools
and I was in, I got into some really great schools
and it was like time to start putting down a down payment.
And I was like, I can't do this.
I don't wanna be a lawyer.
(15:11):
I don't wanna be a lawyer.
And as soon as I like allowed myself the permission
to not go to law school, it was just this like huge relief.
And I worked that summer and like fall was coming around.
So I didn't graduate until August
(15:32):
because I was finishing my honors thesis
and finishing up some stuff for my major.
And I graduated in August and I was like,
I don't know what to do anymore
if I'm not going to law school.
And I ended up flying to Paris
and auditioning at the court floor
and got in to the second year of the program.
(15:56):
And I was like, okay, I'm gonna be an actor.
And I started going to acting school there.
It was getting more expensive.
Like the dollar was going down and the Euro was going up.
And so everything was getting more expensive.
I got a job as a nanny to three little girls.
And like I was making it work, but it was just,
it wasn't making sense.
(16:17):
I didn't have a student visa yet.
I was gonna have to come back and apply for the visa
and go back to Paris.
And so I decided to go around the States
and get a master's degree.
Because again, trying to be the responsible young Mormon boy,
I was gonna get a master's degree
so that if I wasn't able to work professionally as an actor,
I could work as a teacher and teach at a collegiate level.
(16:41):
And so I auditioned for programs,
but then I got engaged to Aurora
and she got cast in the national tour of My Fair Lady.
And we decided not to go to grad school.
And we did the national tour of My Fair Lady
for like six months and then moved to New York.
We were there for three years.
And then I ended up going back to get my master's after that.
So that's a very long winded answer.
(17:04):
Yeah, that was really, really cool.
Thanks for sharing that.
I think there's so many parts of your story
that I feel like a lot of people can relate to,
especially when you kind of emphasize
this external pressure to be something
that your culture kind of wants you to be.
And I think that's something that I specifically
can relate to, especially being a professional
(17:26):
soccer player now, but when I was going through
that process of school and soccer,
but also I wanna be a mom and all these external pressures
of what I should be doing,
but then also what I want to be doing.
Like when I was graduating or leaving BYU,
I was like, I'm gonna go play professional soccer.
And I got a lot of people kind of like, really?
(17:47):
How are you gonna find a husband
because I wasn't married at the time?
Or how are you gonna provide for yourself?
And I was kind of just like, I'll figure it out.
I had been praying about it and it felt right,
but logistically or according to the standards
of everyone around me, it didn't make sense.
But I went and did it and then I feel like
when I met my husband, we kind of had a similar pivot
(18:09):
that you guys had of like, we're gonna do this together.
And like, we were all in on soccer
and like making it my career slash our career
and he's super involved.
So I guess a follow-up question I have for you
with your story and then like you meeting your wife,
like, do you think meeting your wife really had
like a huge impact on you continuing down that trajectory
(18:31):
of like wanting to be in this industry?
Because you now had a companion that was like
as passionate as you are in something
and she was also successful.
Do you think that kind of like helped propel you
to where you are now?
Good question. 100%.
Yeah, 100%.
Like I think, you know, if we were being really smart
(18:52):
about stuff and strategic, Aurora should have married
like an accountant or a lawyer or a dentist or something.
Right?
Like, because that, you know, if you're both
in the creative world and you're both pursuing that,
that there can be times of economic uncertainty, right?
There's also the worry that, I don't know
(19:13):
if you face this as, you know, you're a collegiate athlete
and you're approaching professional levels.
Like, I don't know if you could relate to this all
but as an actor on the acting side,
like the potential is amazing.
Like if you're an A-list actor, you know,
or even not, if you're just like a working actor,
(19:34):
you can be making a lot of money.
But the idea that like, oh, I could be, I could do that.
At times I felt really delusional.
Like this could not amount to anything, right?
Yeah.
So I don't know if you ever faced that kind of uncertainty
of like, yeah, I could go for the big leagues
but like, what if I swing in there?
100%, yeah. I don't know.
Yeah.
(19:55):
I have a question about that because, okay.
So you got your master's at UT.
I was still in my program as a doctoral student.
And I remember I had a year and a half, two years left.
You were done and you guys were moving out to LA
at the time.
I remember going, oh, sweet.
Did you get a job?
(20:16):
Like, did you get a gig?
I don't know what it was.
And you're like, this is what you said.
I remember, no, not really,
but we're gonna go figure it out.
I love that.
And I'm like, wait, what?
You're just gonna go and make stuff happen.
So touch on, that was one of my questions
(20:37):
that's so interesting to me,
especially from a performance or a psychological standpoint,
going into the unknown.
And if we wanna sing Frozen right now, we can,
that would be appropriate.
What was that like?
I mean, and why go into the unknown?
I mean, I think there's a whole lot of people
(20:59):
right in this world that would want the security,
that want the comfort, that don't want the unknown,
that don't want the uncomfortable.
And so why for you was that something
that you sought out, I guess?
I mean, it's kind of a combined answer.
(21:19):
I didn't really answer your question before, Ashley.
Like, how did meeting a war and being with a war
affect that?
Oh, yes, please, sir.
So it kind of fused together.
But no, they tied together though,
because if you're willing to go into the unknown,
whoever's going with you has to be ready for that as well.
Right?
(21:41):
And I think if I had been in a more traditional relationship
with more traditional mindset,
it wouldn't have been possible, it wouldn't have worked.
I always felt like meeting Aurora
kind of expanded the possibilities
of what my life would be in ways that
(22:01):
like only led to more possibility and more opportunity.
Because we...
Sorry, I have a hard time making this up.
So at the end of my undergrad,
we got this fellowship to develop this
adaptation of Tarzan, right?
We had worked on original pieces a lot of times
(22:24):
for a lot of people,
helping other people develop the stories
that they wanna develop,
whether it's writers or it's actors assisting and directing,
whatever it was, this was the first time
that we took something that we wanted to make
from like concept through to performance.
And it was so much work, but so incredibly satisfying.
(22:46):
And that's when we're like, this is what we want to do.
Like more than acting, more than like, you know,
gigging and doing these other things,
like being able to develop the stories that we want to tell
and that we could really care about
and then inseam them through to a final product.
That's what we're passionate about.
And even more than that,
(23:07):
like we really enjoy doing it together
and we really worked together well
and we complimented each other.
We have similar tastes,
but we also like have different skills and strengths
and they compliment each other well
so that we really enjoy working together well
and our work is better when we're collaborating
than when we're doing something individually.
(23:29):
So that like deciding to go into the unknown,
it was, we couldn't move to LA
and just start pounding the pavement
and auditioning for things.
That felt too out of our control.
It felt, auditioning is brutal
and there's a lot of imposter syndrome
or a lot of just like doubt that creeps in for me
(23:51):
and it's not something I could do,
but seeing that we could take a story and tell it well,
that's what got us really excited.
And so when we moved to LA,
our strategy was like, listen,
we're not even gonna try to get an agent.
We're not gonna like, you know,
be on casting networks and stuff.
We are going to develop stories that we wanna tell
(24:11):
and get them made.
And that's when we made the anxious taxidermist.
We later made, during COVID,
we made this short series called Curated,
but, and that's why we decided to go to grad school,
this program at USC,
cause she's like, listen, people love our ideas
and they wanna take those ideas and run with them.
Like, I don't wanna be pushed around.
I wanna know, she hates saying this,
(24:33):
but like, he wants to be in charge basically.
She's smart.
She doesn't wanna be pushed around.
Exactly.
So that's why she decided to this program
because we wanna be able to maintain creative control
and not just, I don't like the word control
cause it's such a collaborative.
What we do is so collaborative,
but like, I want to be able to lead the collaboration
so that we can incorporate the representation,
(24:57):
the voices, the ideas of people
that we're really excited to work with
and really allow everyone to flourish in that collaboration,
which you don't always see in this industry.
Yeah, totally.
We were going into the unknown,
but we were like really passionate about,
okay, we're gonna tell our own stories.
We're gonna develop our own projects.
And that's where we're at.
(25:20):
Yeah.
It's taken a long time, but it's happening.
Yeah, I mean, touching on that point,
from an outside perspective,
it seems more than other occupations or domains
or professional spaces,
just harder, more, I mean,
the challenges seem to be talked about
(25:42):
more than the triumphs,
more so than any other occupation,
again, from an outside perspective.
And so, touching on kind of the tactical approach,
you guys are writing, you're producing,
you're doing a little acting.
What does that look like now to,
I don't know, like find success?
And I'm guessing that's,
(26:03):
and how are you defining that subjectively,
objectively, et cetera, if that makes sense?
So to be clear, I still have a day job.
Like I work full-time.
In August, because we're always going to school,
we're gearing up for that.
Like I switched positions in the company
so I didn't have to be in the office every day.
But I worked for four years,
(26:25):
four and a half years almost as an executive assistant.
And that job,
luckily I had a boss that allowed me like flexibility.
So when I did have a project come up,
I could take that and run with that opportunity.
Like in the summer of 2022,
(26:46):
when I got cast in the film,
I was shooting in South Africa
and they flew our whole family to South Africa
and put us up in an Airbnb.
And we got to live in South Africa for a month
and it was amazing.
And that film is called The Carpenter.
It's coming out this summer, I think,
because they're planning,
they're hoping to distribute it this summer.
Is that common, Jeff,
(27:06):
for people to have kind of odd jobs while pursuing,
yeah, okay, I'm shaking your head.
I mean, all the jokes about like,
you know, every actor has been a waiter at some point,
like a server in a restaurant, you know?
I mean, it's hard to like keep up momentum
(27:33):
and to keep like believing and going for it
when you're also having to work a full-time job
and take care of your family.
And right now we're living in LA, right?
And LA is too expensive
and everyone's leaving because it's so expensive.
But it's hard.
I'm not gonna say it's easy at all.
(27:54):
I'm not gonna say like, I mean, half, you know,
I vacillate a lot between feeling like,
we got this, we're doing it.
And like, oh, like, I think it's time
we move into my parents' basement.
Like, you know what I mean?
It's a lot of back and forth.
Again, Aurora's program,
(28:15):
like the network that that's providing her,
but also she's really shining in her program, I would say.
Like she's doing really, really well.
And that's drawing attention
from some really heavy hitters.
And it's just, we're getting more and more indication
that like we've gotta keep going on this road
and keep pushing forward.
But I, so I was speaking at a church fireside thing for youth.
(28:45):
And I, you know, whenever I talk anywhere,
I like to do like a Q and A thing at the end.
Cause I'm like, what do you guys wanna hear?
What do you wanna talk about?
And one of the questions I got was from
one of the moms in the audience.
And she's like, okay, so you're an actor.
Oh no.
How do you do that?
(29:05):
And she's like literally did air quotes.
So I was like, okay, hold on, hold on.
She did, and I was like, hold on.
That roused me up.
Why like this actor?
I mean, Ashley, I don't know if you get this.
Oh yeah.
I don't know at one point people stopped being like,
oh, you think you can be a professional soccer?
I mean, imagine once you're playing professional soccer,
like people stop saying that, but like, we get it a lot.
(29:28):
Oh yeah.
I mean, I can relate to that.
I mean, just like my team, when we walk through the airport,
like we get a lot of that kind of like,
oh, you're a professional woman's soccer team.
Like, what is that?
Or what does that look like?
Or do you guys get paid?
I'm like, sir, I said professional.
Like, yeah, we do.
Do you play for fun?
(29:48):
Yeah, I don't know, but I can definitely relate to you
in that just kind of like people not completely understanding
or like respecting the hustle.
Just because it is super unconventional.
And then you also throw on top of that,
like you guys have a family,
like people expect you to like work a normal,
(30:10):
I don't even know what, I'll put air quotes around normal,
like normal nine to five job,
like be your kid's soccer coach and take them to school
and come home and have a perfect little family
and do everything the way everyone else is doing it.
And so, yeah, I think, I mean, I can definitely relate.
I know my husband, Jeff, can definitely relate
(30:32):
to just like, we can still be passionate
about what we wanna do and chase our dreams
and also like have a family and raise them and be happy
and have these struggles and these ups and downs
because it's a very normal part of life.
And I think it's really inspiring to hear, you know,
you being honest about, hey, like, this isn't easy.
Like, we have our ups and downs, but I think,
(30:54):
I mean, correct me if I'm wrong,
I'm sure these struggles have brought you and your wife
and you and your family closer together.
Like, how cool is it that you guys traveled to South Africa
and were able to live there for,
I don't know any other kids that can say they did that
and stayed there for a month.
And I think it's really inspiring for kids probably too
to look up to their mom and dad
and see them chasing their dreams together.
(31:16):
And I think that alone is just a really cool lesson
that you're teaching your kids just by doing it
and living it instead of just telling them,
like, oh, follow your dreams,
but don't do this or do that.
But yeah, I think that's really, really cool.
I hope so.
I feel like they're gonna have a lot to unpack
with their therapists later on.
That's okay, that's normal too.
(31:37):
Yeah.
Yes, it is.
I will say like, the hardest thing right now,
so our kids are nine, seven, and almost four.
Almost four, not four children.
Almost four.
Not almost four children.
Yep, yep.
And I would say the hardest thing right now is like,
I'm working a full-time job
(31:58):
and then picking up my kids from school
because Aurora's in class,
usually afternoon through the evening.
So I'm managing our kids
while I'm also trying to wrap up the work day.
And then I get them in bed, hopefully at a decent time.
And then it's like go time for the second career that I,
(32:21):
like my primary focus is on the exterior of all that time.
And that is only something you can sustain for so long.
I'm lucky that I have a job
and that I've had a job since we went to LA
that allowed me flexibility in that.
But if our cost of living went so high or blah, blah, blah,
(32:45):
if things were different,
we could be making a lot more progress a lot more quickly.
But at the same time, like it's all happening in,
like it feels like we're being prepared.
Like we're growing through, we're working through,
(33:05):
like we're developing and honing our skills
through this hustle
so that when we do have the opportunity
to leave day jobs aside,
we'll be ready to go and be like at that level
we want to be at professionally to maintain that career.
But I am 40, I just turned 40 this last year.
(33:25):
You're 40, oh my gosh.
It's a lot, yeah.
I turned 40 in September.
Wow.
It's crazy.
That was like, when I turned 39,
it was actually like the biggest kind of kick in the face
of like, oh my goodness.
40.
I'm almost 40.
I'm not like, my career is not what I wanna be.
(33:46):
I'm an executive assistant.
And I have this beautiful family,
but like I feel like I'm not able to enjoy them
as much as I want to and be the dad I wanna be
because I'm hustling and blah, blah, blah.
It's all that.
It's wrestling with all that all the time.
Yeah.
There isn't one way to live.
(34:10):
And it's so interesting, all my friends.
And so we've moved all over the country
and trying to navigate life, but in a different way, right?
Different occupations.
And then I have friends who are all my age
with their traditional homes and cars and families
and the whole nine yards,
especially living in the culture where we live in.
(34:31):
And it's interesting to live in it,
but not be a part of it, you know,
because of our different processes to life
and how we're living and what I've done
and what my wife is doing.
And for us, I think it's just been more of the challenge
of accepting that we don't need to be like them.
(34:55):
And guess what?
That's a great way to live for them,
but we can do things differently.
And I think a lot of people, at least in my opinion,
can come to that conclusion
and how healthy that could possibly be
when that acceptance of,
there's not one way to do this life thing, right?
(35:15):
Anyways, okay, you said something, Jeff,
I wanna touch on this real quick.
You said something a minute ago about belief
and sustaining that belief that this is gonna work
and this project's gonna work for whatever reason
and we're gonna experience this.
So that belief for me is always really, really important.
And so interesting for me, again,
(35:37):
especially from a psychological standpoint,
it for me is the driving engine for action.
If that belief is present,
it seems to be the tool, the weapon, so to speak,
to overcome the inevitable challenges.
It's not that those challenges aren't gonna exist,
it's just the belief can cut through them
(35:58):
more often than not.
Just from a faith, spiritual, and maybe even Christian lens,
how is that driving the belief?
And especially in a field or in a space
where at times morals or regulations or standards
aren't a part of the process
like they are in other spaces, if that makes sense.
(36:20):
Can you touch on that and the role that this has played
in your experience?
Yeah.
It's interesting to me.
So the film industry or the acting world in general,
if you're incorporating theater or even the arts
(36:41):
as a greater whole is often painted as this
kind of God-forsaken place.
Right, yeah.
And it's fascinating to me that from what I've seen,
anywhere where there's a lot of money involved in anything,
that's like whatever the medium is,
(37:03):
whatever the business is, the industry you're talking about,
whenever there's lots of money,
that's, you're gonna deal with sketchy people.
And people are trying to get advantage
and people are trying to like game the system,
deal with all these things.
And so I feel strongly that the arts aren't any
(37:24):
more corrupt or whatever than any other industry.
It's just, they're often highlighted
because they are producing things that people,
that are trying to get people's attention, right?
And so there's more attention brought to it.
Whereas if a CPA is like super sketchy and crooked,
like you only know that if you work directly with that CPA
(37:45):
and find out about what's going on, you know what I mean?
Or like a Ponzi scheme blows up and then you're like,
oh, this is what's going on.
So like, I know that there's a lot of attention given
to art and to artists.
And so a lot of this depravity comes to the surface
a little more, it gets more attention.
But I don't think it's any more
depraved than any other space.
(38:06):
Good point.
That said, I have found that in any,
sorry, my dog is on my lap.
This is the family dog, but she likes to sit on my lap
and it drives her crazy.
Say hi to her.
Hi, this is Eliza.
Hi, Eliza.
Hi, Eliza.
We call her Nellie, because for short,
but see those eyes, that's why her name's Eliza Nellie.
(38:28):
Oh yeah.
So I would say like,
I have been so moved by the people I've met
or working in film, TV, theater, commercial,
whatever it is.
Like the same reason, there are people who are drawn to it
(38:52):
for different reasons.
The stereotypes are all true.
Like the stereotype exists because there's evidence
of those examples of those.
But I will say like, I'm drawn to storytelling
because I'm fascinated with the human experience
and I want to share and tell stories
(39:13):
that help us better understand
what it is we're all going through,
what it is we're all dealing with
and how to keep the hope alive, to keep day after day,
to keep on moving forward
and to help each other in the process, right?
That's why I'm drawn to storytelling, to film,
to TV, to theater, to all this stuff, to writing.
(39:37):
And so of course I'm meeting people
who are drawn for very similar reasons.
And those are the people I gravitate to,
those are the people I attract
because we have the same kind of tastes
and the same kind of interests and things.
And so I'm just really inspired by all the amazing people
that I've been able to work with
and that I'm hoping to work with
and that I have been working with
(39:58):
because of this shared kind of driving force
that like the stories we tell matter, you know?
They really matter and they're powerful
and we can use that power for good.
And yeah, that's quite so funny.
(40:21):
That's quite so Fox, I guess.
But, and so that's like to keep the belief alive
that like I've got to keep doing this.
First of all, I'm putting this dog down
because she's growling out the window.
So I would say, first of all,
like I've been trying to do this for so long
that at this point it kind of feels like a war of attrition
(40:43):
that like I've just got to keep holding out
because opportunities are coming my way.
And as I get older, more acting opportunities
are coming my way, like I get booked a lot
as the dad in a commercial because of like
my like type whatever and because I have kids
and because I'm getting older and I got gray hairs going on,
(41:05):
like people are like, oh yeah, like he's the dad.
Like let's put him in the commercial.
So it's, anyway, it's a lot about
maintaining belief that like it can happen
and that it matters and that if I don't tell these stories,
like who is going to tell these stories, you know?
(41:25):
So I don't know if that was a good answer to your question.
No, that's really cool.
I think Matt and I can relate.
That's why we are taking our stab at doing a podcast.
And like the reason why we named it Ditto
is because we feel like there's a lot of people
that can relate or want to hear that, you know,
they're not alone in their journey to whatever it is,
(41:47):
whether it's telling a story or finding success
in a different way.
But yeah, I think having that like bigger belief
than like just yourself or your purpose
is doing something to also like help others
and like having that passion, I think is what helps you
continue to like keep going.
And like for me, like I think inspiring the next generation
(42:08):
or just pushing on the sport of like female soccer
is something that like inspires me a lot.
And I didn't really find that until I actually started
playing soccer professionally.
And I feel like once I found that like higher purpose
or goal or motive, I feel like I found just like
kind of another gear, another level of like my profession.
So I think that's really cool.
Thanks for sharing.
Wow, yeah.
(42:29):
Yeah.
Finding and cultivating that purpose is just so powerful.
I love it.
Again, yeah, thank you for sharing.
Jeff, we are coming up on time.
So two minutes.
Here's my last question for you
because I want everyone out there,
the millions that will be listening and watching this.
You need to stop making that joke, Matt.
One day, you gotta believe.
(42:50):
I know, I know.
There will be millions.
That's actually gonna be true one day.
I know, right?
I need to believe.
Here we go.
What are you doing now?
What's forthcoming?
What's coming down the pike or the pipe,
depending on what part of the country you're from,
how you say that phrase.
Yeah, we're currently fundraising,
in the fundraising stage and soon moving into pre-production
(43:11):
for our first feature film, like our own independent.
We're producing it.
We're directing it together.
We've written it.
We're bringing a lot of amazing artists on board to do it,
but it's called Too Soon.
It's a story of a widow and a widower
who meet the day of their spouse's funerals
and form a kind of ad hoc music therapy style support group
(43:31):
for each other and eventually start, you know,
as they're filling in the gaps in each other's lives,
they eventually start having feelings for each other.
But it's like, it's too soon, right?
And so they start pulling back from that.
That creates the conflict.
But it's a romantic comedy and there's lots of music involved
because they come together to write music.
And that's the big project we're working on.
(43:56):
But yeah.
That's really cool.
So that's exciting.
Amazing.
And where, I mean, if people wanted to follow you
and follow this project or any other of the projects
that you've created or are creating,
how might one do that?
I mean, I don't post a lot, but I'm on Instagram,
Jeff Dickemore, at Jeff Dickemore.
And then St. Norma Jean is our production company
(44:18):
and that's on and then Aurora Florence,
she's on Instagram.
And anyway, it's, so that's where we are
and you can find us.
And hopefully watch our movie next year.
That's exciting.
Awesome.
Yeah.
I've watched some of your guys' YouTube stuff
and I think you guys are great and I really enjoy watching.
So I'm excited to continue to follow you guys
(44:39):
and your career and follow your success.
So thanks so much for joining us.
We really appreciate it.
Thank you for having me.
I just want to ask both of you more questions.
I want to catch up with Matt, but they're like,
Ashley, I have so many questions I would love to ask you
about what it's like to play professional soccer.
Yeah.
We'll do another episode.
How about that?
(44:59):
We'll catch up again.
Yeah.
Where I just get to ask you questions.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You just ask us questions.
Yeah, that'll be great.
Yes.
Okay, Jeff, we want to let you go.
Thank you again.
You're an amazing human being.
Respect and love you very much.
So please don't be a stranger.
I will, same to you.
Same to you.
you guys were moving out to LA.
(00:01):
I remember going, oh, sweet, did you get a gig?
This is what you said, I remember.
No, not really, but we're gonna go figure it out.
I think there's a whole lot of people right in this world
that don't want the uncomfortable.
And so why for you was that something that you sought out?
If you're willing to go into the unknown,
whoever's going with you has to be ready for that as well.
We were like really passionate about,
we're gonna tell our own stories,
we're gonna develop our own projects.
(00:21):
We're not even gonna try to get an agent,
we're not gonna be on casting networks and stuff.
We are going to develop stories that we wanna tell
and get them made.
Welcome everybody to another episode of Ditto,
to today's episode of Ditto.
What a pleasure it is to have one of my really good friends,
(00:43):
Jeff Dickmore with us today.
An award-winning filmmaker and actor based in LA,
which seems to be kind of a congregation
for many of those folks.
He most often works with his brilliant wife, Aurora,
who I also know, who is wonderful,
who is currently, and he just told me this today
and this is phenomenal.
She's enrolled as a master's student
(01:04):
at USC School of Cinematic Arts.
Tell me Jeff really quickly, is it ranked number one?
Like is it the best cinematic arts program in the country?
Maybe the world, I don't know.
So there are different rankings for different programs.
It is, the program she's in is called
the Peter Sark program for creative producing
(01:27):
and film, TV and new media.
I think it's the official title.
It's the only program like it.
And it's, I mean, it's, from what I understand,
it's the best program.
It sure seems like the best program and yeah,
it's pretty phenomenal.
Do you wanna go get here really quick?
She can come and take your place if that's okay.
(01:48):
Seriously though.
It's a little swap.
She's not all over us.
No more really, no more really.
Okay, let me keep going.
So Jeff, their film work, when I say there again,
I'm referring to Aurora and Jeff,
has played at festivals across the world,
including Slam Dance and the Austin Film Festival
with Austin putting them on the list
(02:10):
of the 25 screenwriters to watch in 2021.
That's so cool.
Their pilot, the anxious taxidermist,
which is such a great title,
won best in fast at the Women in Comedy Festival
and best international pilot at Pilot Light TV Fest,
among other awards.
Amazing.
(02:30):
Keep going.
Here we go.
During his undergrad, Jeff worked as a,
get this, Romanian cinema research assistant.
Really quick, what the heck does that mean?
I had one teacher who's particularly interested
in writing a lot about Romanian cinema.
(02:51):
And so she, like, I worked for her a little bit
to kind of do some research about what was going on.
And during the time there was this thing called
the new wave on the Black Sea, which is like,
was this, there was a lot of attention
being pulled towards Romania and Romanian cinema.
It was doing well at Cannes, things like that.
(03:13):
So that's what that was.
Did you get to travel to Romania and do some work
or is it all?
Not for this job.
It was just a lot of online stuff.
And then while I was there for a different project, though,
I was able to buy a bunch of DVDs
and bring them back to her.
And anyway, so yeah.
Yeah, okay.
(03:34):
Here we go, we're continuing.
He also taught French 101, so bonjour.
He's fluent in French
and received a Kennedy International Scholar Award
during this time period.
We're continuing on.
Jeff, after pulling his law school applications,
Jeff studied acting at, let me get this right, hold on.
(03:54):
Le Cor Florent.
Laurent, yeah.
Le Cor Florent.
Le Cor Florent in Paris.
Then went on to earn his MFA at the University of Tennessee.
That's where we met, the University of Tennessee.
So go Vols at the Clarence Brown Theater.
So really quickly, I actually lived with Jeff and Aurora.
(04:17):
We lived beneath them in their basement.
So we rented their house.
They lived on top, their cute family.
At the time they had two kids.
We had one and we rented a basement from them.
And we were both graduate students
at the University of Tennessee.
That's where we met.
Cute.
In Knoxville, Tennessee,
one of the most wonderful places on earth.
(04:40):
Okay, so there at UT, which is University of Tennessee,
when I say UT, it's not University of Texas, people.
Come on.
There he was awarded a Thomas Fellowship
for his original adaptation of Tarzan of the Apes.
I actually went and saw this,
what would you call it, a final project?
Your master, like your thesis?
It was a workshop performance of the.
(05:00):
Yeah, amazing.
And talk about the physique of developing to be Tarzan.
I remember how hard you were working out
at that time period.
I don't know if you've kept that up, but it was fantastic.
It was a physical theater piece.
Again, a wonderful to go watch involving
large scale puppetry and aerial acrobatics.
(05:21):
And so for me, knowing very little about this,
it was like Cirque de Soleil, acting story narrative.
It was wonderful to be, again, to be a part of
and to watch I remember seeing it.
It was all so novel and wonderful.
Okay, I'm almost done.
Jeff's still us saying he works by day
(05:42):
as a content strategist at Ben Labs
and sometimes acts in movies and commercials.
By night and weekend, he and Aurora, his wife,
write screenplays and are currently preparing
for their first independent feature film called Too Soon.
I'm gonna touch on this here in just a minute.
Shooting it this summer, so here in what, two months or so?
(06:02):
At least from where we're recording this episode.
And then most importantly, last but certainly not least,
Jeff and Aurora have three amazing kids,
almost four, is what I mean, so she's pregnant?
Our three year old is almost four.
Oh, almost four.
Sorry.
So I listed our three kids and the three year old is,
(06:22):
it will be four, so there's nine, seven, and almost four.
The three year old is almost four.
Jeff's like, oh.
I read almost four.
Just three kids.
Three kids, only three, not four, don't mistake it.
But you do have a dog, so maybe that could be
your fourth child, a long-legged, doe-eyed,
black shelter dog named Eliza Minnelli.
(06:44):
All right, again, wonderful human being.
Thanks for coming on, Jeff.
You are officially our second guest on this show.
And for many reasons, I reached out to Jeff to come on.
Now, obviously Ashley's a professional soccer player,
and I'm coming from this field of sport, mostly sport,
but also performance psychology.
(07:05):
So for me especially, it's fascinating to study,
talk about, learn from other quote unquote performers,
whether they're athletes or actors or directors
or business persons or whatever it might be.
And so I wanted to get another performance domain
on the show and I knew you, and so luckily I reached out.
(07:28):
And here we are.
Here we are, for better or for worse.
You got it.
I know, yeah.
Okay, so there's Jeff.
Ashley's gonna get the ball rolling with some questions
and get some of this discussion going.
Yeah, well, like Matt said, thank you so much, Jeff,
for joining us.
We're really excited to talk to you and hear more
about your journey and your profession.
(07:48):
Super glad Matt has friends so we can invite them
onto our podcast.
Only a few, just one of two.
Perfect.
So I guess my first question is pretty simple.
We would just like to know how you got into the profession
that you are in today.
Is it something that you always wanted to do?
(08:10):
Did you stumble into it?
But can you kind of just walk us through
how you got to be such a cool person
after hearing your really long, amazing bio?
Oh man, so it definitely is a long story.
If you want to truncate any of this and be like,
(08:32):
great, we got that, let's move on.
Look into that.
But it was a really long process and a long journey
because, so I grew up in bountiful Utah,
bountiful Utah.
And I was always very interested in storytelling.
I remember writing stories, writing plays,
(08:54):
like from really young age, elementary school.
I started acting in elementary school
at a local theater called Page's Lane Theater,
which was in Centerville.
And now like the new iteration of that same theater
is called Centerpoint Legacy Theater,
which is also in Centerville.
But I, so I didn't know anyone who was a professional actor
(09:23):
that was able to do that full time.
And like, I was the youngest of four boys
and I really, like I saw it, like the important thing,
that like the principles from the faith community
I was raised in like was all about like,
(09:45):
as a man, you become a provider for your family
and you do everything you can to like reach your potential
and like make an impact in the world and all this stuff.
And I did finance, like I did well in school
and I saw acting as kind of this like lesser thing.
(10:06):
And my aspirations were to be a doctor
and to like go into like Doctors Without Borders
and I got involved in some humanitarian work internationally
from a pretty young age.
And I really just, I knew I was wanted to be an actor
and a storyteller, a writer, all these things,
(10:28):
but it never seemed like a viable path for me,
especially if I was gonna be like an upstanding Mormon boy,
you know what I mean?
And so I tried for the longest time
to do all the other things.
When I started college, my undergrad,
I was only in like the pre-med track for like two weeks
and then I switched to the international studies.
(10:50):
I realized as much as I had really enjoyed
like emergency medicine and I had been
first responder certified in high school
and all this stuff and I really enjoyed that.
I liked taking care of people and knowing like what to do
in an emergency situation,
but I wasn't that good at science.
(11:12):
But like chemistry, I was supposed to be in chemistry 105,
I think, and I was starting in chemistry 101
because I was like, oh, I don't know about that.
And like all of it was like, this is not for me.
And so after a lot of like thought and prayer
and really like kind of digging into what my life
like as a doctor, I decided to pivot and went in
(11:35):
to go into international law and diplomacy instead.
So again, I was thinking like on this grand global scale,
like how do I help people?
How do I like make the biggest impact and all that?
And so I wasn't acting at the time
and I was plugging along, you know,
I was gonna be some kind of international mover
and shaker to like make the world a more humane place.
(11:57):
And about two years into my undergrad,
I started, let's see,
I was living in the French house at BYU and-
Well, what does that mean?
The French house?
So the foreign language student residence,
the Flisser they called it, I think they still have it.
(12:20):
So you live in apartments where every apartment
has a native speaker of that language
and you're supposed to speak that language all the time
when you're in the apartment.
And then they, you would have dinner together
with all of the apartments of your language every weekday.
Maybe it was only Monday through Thursday, can't remember.
(12:41):
But so you're always speaking the language.
And I served a mission for the LDS church in Romania.
So I spoke Romanian and that has a Latin base to it.
And so I wanted to get another language
and a lot of my interests were in Africa
and a little bit of Southeast Asia
because of colonialism, like French colonialism,
(13:02):
there was quite a bit of French influence in those areas.
So I was like, okay, I'll learn French
because I wanted to learn Arabic, but that was too hard
and I didn't have enough time.
I was having to work my way through school
to pay for things.
And so I was like, okay, I'll learn French,
get that under my belt and then I'll wait until someone's
paying me to learn Arabic and then I'll learn Arabic.
Smart.
(13:22):
But French like kind of took off for me.
And so I ended up learning Arabic.
Is this unique to BYU, these houses?
I think there are programs like this in other places,
but it seems like a pretty BYU thing.
It does, I was gonna say, this seems very BYU.
I mean, how advantageous to learn a language.
Yeah, but yeah, sorry, keep going, Jeff.
(13:44):
So this is too long of a story,
but while I was in the French house,
my friend, Aline, was a film student.
She was one of the native speakers in the French house
and her friend at the time was doing his capstone in film
and I was talking to her about it and I ended up auditioning.
(14:09):
I was like, this sounds really amazing.
Like the whole concept for the short film,
I really, like, I think I could do this.
So I auditioned for it, I got it and, you know,
I hadn't acted since high school.
And so as soon as I started, this like was kind of,
you know, a tipping point, like I broke down that barrier,
(14:29):
whatever you wanna say, and I never stopped acting
after that.
It just went from like this short film
to like one thing after the other,
just acting in different things.
And I started writing,
I was involved in some development stuff,
but even then I was still preparing for law school.
(14:50):
And it wasn't until, like I had taken the LSAT,
all my applications were in, I paid all those fees
and I was getting responses back.
Like I was, we listed at some great schools
and I was in, I got into some really great schools
and it was like time to start putting down a down payment.
And I was like, I can't do this.
I don't wanna be a lawyer.
(15:11):
I don't wanna be a lawyer.
And as soon as I like allowed myself the permission
to not go to law school, it was just this like huge relief.
And I worked that summer and like fall was coming around.
So I didn't graduate until August
(15:32):
because I was finishing my honors thesis
and finishing up some stuff for my major.
And I graduated in August and I was like,
I don't know what to do anymore
if I'm not going to law school.
And I ended up flying to Paris
and auditioning at the court floor
and got in to the second year of the program.
(15:56):
And I was like, okay, I'm gonna be an actor.
And I started going to acting school there.
It was getting more expensive.
Like the dollar was going down and the Euro was going up.
And so everything was getting more expensive.
I got a job as a nanny to three little girls.
And like I was making it work, but it was just,
it wasn't making sense.
(16:17):
I didn't have a student visa yet.
I was gonna have to come back and apply for the visa
and go back to Paris.
And so I decided to go around the States
and get a master's degree.
Because again, trying to be the responsible young Mormon boy,
I was gonna get a master's degree
so that if I wasn't able to work professionally as an actor,
I could work as a teacher and teach at a collegiate level.
(16:41):
And so I auditioned for programs,
but then I got engaged to Aurora
and she got cast in the national tour of My Fair Lady.
And we decided not to go to grad school.
And we did the national tour of My Fair Lady
for like six months and then moved to New York.
We were there for three years.
And then I ended up going back to get my master's after that.
So that's a very long winded answer.
(17:04):
Yeah, that was really, really cool.
Thanks for sharing that.
I think there's so many parts of your story
that I feel like a lot of people can relate to,
especially when you kind of emphasize
this external pressure to be something
that your culture kind of wants you to be.
And I think that's something that I specifically
can relate to, especially being a professional
(17:26):
soccer player now, but when I was going through
that process of school and soccer,
but also I wanna be a mom and all these external pressures
of what I should be doing,
but then also what I want to be doing.
Like when I was graduating or leaving BYU,
I was like, I'm gonna go play professional soccer.
And I got a lot of people kind of like, really?
(17:47):
How are you gonna find a husband
because I wasn't married at the time?
Or how are you gonna provide for yourself?
And I was kind of just like, I'll figure it out.
I had been praying about it and it felt right,
but logistically or according to the standards
of everyone around me, it didn't make sense.
But I went and did it and then I feel like
when I met my husband, we kind of had a similar pivot
(18:09):
that you guys had of like, we're gonna do this together.
And like, we were all in on soccer
and like making it my career slash our career
and he's super involved.
So I guess a follow-up question I have for you
with your story and then like you meeting your wife,
like, do you think meeting your wife really had
like a huge impact on you continuing down that trajectory
(18:31):
of like wanting to be in this industry?
Because you now had a companion that was like
as passionate as you are in something
and she was also successful.
Do you think that kind of like helped propel you
to where you are now?
Good question. 100%.
Yeah, 100%.
Like I think, you know, if we were being really smart
(18:52):
about stuff and strategic, Aurora should have married
like an accountant or a lawyer or a dentist or something.
Right?
Like, because that, you know, if you're both
in the creative world and you're both pursuing that,
that there can be times of economic uncertainty, right?
There's also the worry that, I don't know
(19:13):
if you face this as, you know, you're a collegiate athlete
and you're approaching professional levels.
Like, I don't know if you could relate to this all
but as an actor on the acting side,
like the potential is amazing.
Like if you're an A-list actor, you know,
or even not, if you're just like a working actor,
(19:34):
you can be making a lot of money.
But the idea that like, oh, I could be, I could do that.
At times I felt really delusional.
Like this could not amount to anything, right?
Yeah.
So I don't know if you ever faced that kind of uncertainty
of like, yeah, I could go for the big leagues
but like, what if I swing in there?
100%, yeah. I don't know.
Yeah.
(19:55):
I have a question about that because, okay.
So you got your master's at UT.
I was still in my program as a doctoral student.
And I remember I had a year and a half, two years left.
You were done and you guys were moving out to LA
at the time.
I remember going, oh, sweet.
Did you get a job?
(20:16):
Like, did you get a gig?
I don't know what it was.
And you're like, this is what you said.
I remember, no, not really,
but we're gonna go figure it out.
I love that.
And I'm like, wait, what?
You're just gonna go and make stuff happen.
So touch on, that was one of my questions
(20:37):
that's so interesting to me,
especially from a performance or a psychological standpoint,
going into the unknown.
And if we wanna sing Frozen right now, we can,
that would be appropriate.
What was that like?
I mean, and why go into the unknown?
I mean, I think there's a whole lot of people
(20:59):
right in this world that would want the security,
that want the comfort, that don't want the unknown,
that don't want the uncomfortable.
And so why for you was that something
that you sought out, I guess?
I mean, it's kind of a combined answer.
(21:19):
I didn't really answer your question before, Ashley.
Like, how did meeting a war and being with a war
affect that?
Oh, yes, please, sir.
So it kind of fused together.
But no, they tied together though,
because if you're willing to go into the unknown,
whoever's going with you has to be ready for that as well.
Right?
(21:41):
And I think if I had been in a more traditional relationship
with more traditional mindset,
it wouldn't have been possible, it wouldn't have worked.
I always felt like meeting Aurora
kind of expanded the possibilities
of what my life would be in ways that
(22:01):
like only led to more possibility and more opportunity.
Because we...
Sorry, I have a hard time making this up.
So at the end of my undergrad,
we got this fellowship to develop this
adaptation of Tarzan, right?
We had worked on original pieces a lot of times
(22:24):
for a lot of people,
helping other people develop the stories
that they wanna develop,
whether it's writers or it's actors assisting and directing,
whatever it was, this was the first time
that we took something that we wanted to make
from like concept through to performance.
And it was so much work, but so incredibly satisfying.
(22:46):
And that's when we're like, this is what we want to do.
Like more than acting, more than like, you know,
gigging and doing these other things,
like being able to develop the stories that we want to tell
and that we could really care about
and then inseam them through to a final product.
That's what we're passionate about.
And even more than that,
(23:07):
like we really enjoy doing it together
and we really worked together well
and we complimented each other.
We have similar tastes,
but we also like have different skills and strengths
and they compliment each other well
so that we really enjoy working together well
and our work is better when we're collaborating
than when we're doing something individually.
(23:29):
So that like deciding to go into the unknown,
it was, we couldn't move to LA
and just start pounding the pavement
and auditioning for things.
That felt too out of our control.
It felt, auditioning is brutal
and there's a lot of imposter syndrome
or a lot of just like doubt that creeps in for me
(23:51):
and it's not something I could do,
but seeing that we could take a story and tell it well,
that's what got us really excited.
And so when we moved to LA,
our strategy was like, listen,
we're not even gonna try to get an agent.
We're not gonna like, you know,
be on casting networks and stuff.
We are going to develop stories that we wanna tell
(24:11):
and get them made.
And that's when we made the anxious taxidermist.
We later made, during COVID,
we made this short series called Curated,
but, and that's why we decided to go to grad school,
this program at USC,
cause she's like, listen, people love our ideas
and they wanna take those ideas and run with them.
Like, I don't wanna be pushed around.
I wanna know, she hates saying this,
(24:33):
but like, he wants to be in charge basically.
She's smart.
She doesn't wanna be pushed around.
Exactly.
So that's why she decided to this program
because we wanna be able to maintain creative control
and not just, I don't like the word control
cause it's such a collaborative.
What we do is so collaborative,
but like, I want to be able to lead the collaboration
so that we can incorporate the representation,
(24:57):
the voices, the ideas of people
that we're really excited to work with
and really allow everyone to flourish in that collaboration,
which you don't always see in this industry.
Yeah, totally.
We were going into the unknown,
but we were like really passionate about,
okay, we're gonna tell our own stories.
We're gonna develop our own projects.
And that's where we're at.
(25:20):
Yeah.
It's taken a long time, but it's happening.
Yeah, I mean, touching on that point,
from an outside perspective,
it seems more than other occupations or domains
or professional spaces,
just harder, more, I mean,
the challenges seem to be talked about
(25:42):
more than the triumphs,
more so than any other occupation,
again, from an outside perspective.
And so, touching on kind of the tactical approach,
you guys are writing, you're producing,
you're doing a little acting.
What does that look like now to,
I don't know, like find success?
And I'm guessing that's,
(26:03):
and how are you defining that subjectively,
objectively, et cetera, if that makes sense?
So to be clear, I still have a day job.
Like I work full-time.
In August, because we're always going to school,
we're gearing up for that.
Like I switched positions in the company
so I didn't have to be in the office every day.
But I worked for four years,
(26:25):
four and a half years almost as an executive assistant.
And that job,
luckily I had a boss that allowed me like flexibility.
So when I did have a project come up,
I could take that and run with that opportunity.
Like in the summer of 2022,
(26:46):
when I got cast in the film,
I was shooting in South Africa
and they flew our whole family to South Africa
and put us up in an Airbnb.
And we got to live in South Africa for a month
and it was amazing.
And that film is called The Carpenter.
It's coming out this summer, I think,
because they're planning,
they're hoping to distribute it this summer.
Is that common, Jeff,
(27:06):
for people to have kind of odd jobs while pursuing,
yeah, okay, I'm shaking your head.
I mean, all the jokes about like,
you know, every actor has been a waiter at some point,
like a server in a restaurant, you know?
I mean, it's hard to like keep up momentum
(27:33):
and to keep like believing and going for it
when you're also having to work a full-time job
and take care of your family.
And right now we're living in LA, right?
And LA is too expensive
and everyone's leaving because it's so expensive.
But it's hard.
I'm not gonna say it's easy at all.
(27:54):
I'm not gonna say like, I mean, half, you know,
I vacillate a lot between feeling like,
we got this, we're doing it.
And like, oh, like, I think it's time
we move into my parents' basement.
Like, you know what I mean?
It's a lot of back and forth.
Again, Aurora's program,
(28:15):
like the network that that's providing her,
but also she's really shining in her program, I would say.
Like she's doing really, really well.
And that's drawing attention
from some really heavy hitters.
And it's just, we're getting more and more indication
that like we've gotta keep going on this road
and keep pushing forward.
But I, so I was speaking at a church fireside thing for youth.
(28:45):
And I, you know, whenever I talk anywhere,
I like to do like a Q and A thing at the end.
Cause I'm like, what do you guys wanna hear?
What do you wanna talk about?
And one of the questions I got was from
one of the moms in the audience.
And she's like, okay, so you're an actor.
Oh no.
How do you do that?
(29:05):
And she's like literally did air quotes.
So I was like, okay, hold on, hold on.
She did, and I was like, hold on.
That roused me up.
Why like this actor?
I mean, Ashley, I don't know if you get this.
Oh yeah.
I don't know at one point people stopped being like,
oh, you think you can be a professional soccer?
I mean, imagine once you're playing professional soccer,
like people stop saying that, but like, we get it a lot.
(29:28):
Oh yeah.
I mean, I can relate to that.
I mean, just like my team, when we walk through the airport,
like we get a lot of that kind of like,
oh, you're a professional woman's soccer team.
Like, what is that?
Or what does that look like?
Or do you guys get paid?
I'm like, sir, I said professional.
Like, yeah, we do.
Do you play for fun?
(29:48):
Yeah, I don't know, but I can definitely relate to you
in that just kind of like people not completely understanding
or like respecting the hustle.
Just because it is super unconventional.
And then you also throw on top of that,
like you guys have a family,
like people expect you to like work a normal,
(30:10):
I don't even know what, I'll put air quotes around normal,
like normal nine to five job,
like be your kid's soccer coach and take them to school
and come home and have a perfect little family
and do everything the way everyone else is doing it.
And so, yeah, I think, I mean, I can definitely relate.
I know my husband, Jeff, can definitely relate
(30:32):
to just like, we can still be passionate
about what we wanna do and chase our dreams
and also like have a family and raise them and be happy
and have these struggles and these ups and downs
because it's a very normal part of life.
And I think it's really inspiring to hear, you know,
you being honest about, hey, like, this isn't easy.
Like, we have our ups and downs, but I think,
(30:54):
I mean, correct me if I'm wrong,
I'm sure these struggles have brought you and your wife
and you and your family closer together.
Like, how cool is it that you guys traveled to South Africa
and were able to live there for,
I don't know any other kids that can say they did that
and stayed there for a month.
And I think it's really inspiring for kids probably too
to look up to their mom and dad
and see them chasing their dreams together.
(31:16):
And I think that alone is just a really cool lesson
that you're teaching your kids just by doing it
and living it instead of just telling them,
like, oh, follow your dreams,
but don't do this or do that.
But yeah, I think that's really, really cool.
I hope so.
I feel like they're gonna have a lot to unpack
with their therapists later on.
That's okay, that's normal too.
(31:37):
Yeah.
Yes, it is.
I will say like, the hardest thing right now,
so our kids are nine, seven, and almost four.
Almost four, not four children.
Almost four.
Not almost four children.
Yep, yep.
And I would say the hardest thing right now is like,
I'm working a full-time job
(31:58):
and then picking up my kids from school
because Aurora's in class,
usually afternoon through the evening.
So I'm managing our kids
while I'm also trying to wrap up the work day.
And then I get them in bed, hopefully at a decent time.
And then it's like go time for the second career that I,
(32:21):
like my primary focus is on the exterior of all that time.
And that is only something you can sustain for so long.
I'm lucky that I have a job
and that I've had a job since we went to LA
that allowed me flexibility in that.
But if our cost of living went so high or blah, blah, blah,
(32:45):
if things were different,
we could be making a lot more progress a lot more quickly.
But at the same time, like it's all happening in,
like it feels like we're being prepared.
Like we're growing through, we're working through,
(33:05):
like we're developing and honing our skills
through this hustle
so that when we do have the opportunity
to leave day jobs aside,
we'll be ready to go and be like at that level
we want to be at professionally to maintain that career.
But I am 40, I just turned 40 this last year.
(33:25):
You're 40, oh my gosh.
It's a lot, yeah.
I turned 40 in September.
Wow.
It's crazy.
That was like, when I turned 39,
it was actually like the biggest kind of kick in the face
of like, oh my goodness.
40.
I'm almost 40.
I'm not like, my career is not what I wanna be.
(33:46):
I'm an executive assistant.
And I have this beautiful family,
but like I feel like I'm not able to enjoy them
as much as I want to and be the dad I wanna be
because I'm hustling and blah, blah, blah.
It's all that.
It's wrestling with all that all the time.
Yeah.
There isn't one way to live.
(34:10):
And it's so interesting, all my friends.
And so we've moved all over the country
and trying to navigate life, but in a different way, right?
Different occupations.
And then I have friends who are all my age
with their traditional homes and cars and families
and the whole nine yards,
especially living in the culture where we live in.
(34:31):
And it's interesting to live in it,
but not be a part of it, you know,
because of our different processes to life
and how we're living and what I've done
and what my wife is doing.
And for us, I think it's just been more of the challenge
of accepting that we don't need to be like them.
(34:55):
And guess what?
That's a great way to live for them,
but we can do things differently.
And I think a lot of people, at least in my opinion,
can come to that conclusion
and how healthy that could possibly be
when that acceptance of,
there's not one way to do this life thing, right?
(35:15):
Anyways, okay, you said something, Jeff,
I wanna touch on this real quick.
You said something a minute ago about belief
and sustaining that belief that this is gonna work
and this project's gonna work for whatever reason
and we're gonna experience this.
So that belief for me is always really, really important.
And so interesting for me, again,
(35:37):
especially from a psychological standpoint,
it for me is the driving engine for action.
If that belief is present,
it seems to be the tool, the weapon, so to speak,
to overcome the inevitable challenges.
It's not that those challenges aren't gonna exist,
it's just the belief can cut through them
(35:58):
more often than not.
Just from a faith, spiritual, and maybe even Christian lens,
how is that driving the belief?
And especially in a field or in a space
where at times morals or regulations or standards
aren't a part of the process
like they are in other spaces, if that makes sense.
(36:20):
Can you touch on that and the role that this has played
in your experience?
Yeah.
It's interesting to me.
So the film industry or the acting world in general,
if you're incorporating theater or even the arts
(36:41):
as a greater whole is often painted as this
kind of God-forsaken place.
Right, yeah.
And it's fascinating to me that from what I've seen,
anywhere where there's a lot of money involved in anything,
that's like whatever the medium is,
(37:03):
whatever the business is, the industry you're talking about,
whenever there's lots of money,
that's, you're gonna deal with sketchy people.
And people are trying to get advantage
and people are trying to like game the system,
deal with all these things.
And so I feel strongly that the arts aren't any
(37:24):
more corrupt or whatever than any other industry.
It's just, they're often highlighted
because they are producing things that people,
that are trying to get people's attention, right?
And so there's more attention brought to it.
Whereas if a CPA is like super sketchy and crooked,
like you only know that if you work directly with that CPA
(37:45):
and find out about what's going on, you know what I mean?
Or like a Ponzi scheme blows up and then you're like,
oh, this is what's going on.
So like, I know that there's a lot of attention given
to art and to artists.
And so a lot of this depravity comes to the surface
a little more, it gets more attention.
But I don't think it's any more
depraved than any other space.
(38:06):
Good point.
That said, I have found that in any,
sorry, my dog is on my lap.
This is the family dog, but she likes to sit on my lap
and it drives her crazy.
Say hi to her.
Hi, this is Eliza.
Hi, Eliza.
Hi, Eliza.
We call her Nellie, because for short,
but see those eyes, that's why her name's Eliza Nellie.
(38:28):
Oh yeah.
So I would say like,
I have been so moved by the people I've met
or working in film, TV, theater, commercial,
whatever it is.
Like the same reason, there are people who are drawn to it
(38:52):
for different reasons.
The stereotypes are all true.
Like the stereotype exists because there's evidence
of those examples of those.
But I will say like, I'm drawn to storytelling
because I'm fascinated with the human experience
and I want to share and tell stories
(39:13):
that help us better understand
what it is we're all going through,
what it is we're all dealing with
and how to keep the hope alive, to keep day after day,
to keep on moving forward
and to help each other in the process, right?
That's why I'm drawn to storytelling, to film,
to TV, to theater, to all this stuff, to writing.
(39:37):
And so of course I'm meeting people
who are drawn for very similar reasons.
And those are the people I gravitate to,
those are the people I attract
because we have the same kind of tastes
and the same kind of interests and things.
And so I'm just really inspired by all the amazing people
that I've been able to work with
and that I'm hoping to work with
and that I have been working with
(39:58):
because of this shared kind of driving force
that like the stories we tell matter, you know?
They really matter and they're powerful
and we can use that power for good.
And yeah, that's quite so funny.
(40:21):
That's quite so Fox, I guess.
But, and so that's like to keep the belief alive
that like I've got to keep doing this.
First of all, I'm putting this dog down
because she's growling out the window.
So I would say, first of all,
like I've been trying to do this for so long
that at this point it kind of feels like a war of attrition
(40:43):
that like I've just got to keep holding out
because opportunities are coming my way.
And as I get older, more acting opportunities
are coming my way, like I get booked a lot
as the dad in a commercial because of like
my like type whatever and because I have kids
and because I'm getting older and I got gray hairs going on,
(41:05):
like people are like, oh yeah, like he's the dad.
Like let's put him in the commercial.
So it's, anyway, it's a lot about
maintaining belief that like it can happen
and that it matters and that if I don't tell these stories,
like who is going to tell these stories, you know?
(41:25):
So I don't know if that was a good answer to your question.
No, that's really cool.
I think Matt and I can relate.
That's why we are taking our stab at doing a podcast.
And like the reason why we named it Ditto
is because we feel like there's a lot of people
that can relate or want to hear that, you know,
they're not alone in their journey to whatever it is,
(41:47):
whether it's telling a story or finding success
in a different way.
But yeah, I think having that like bigger belief
than like just yourself or your purpose
is doing something to also like help others
and like having that passion, I think is what helps you
continue to like keep going.
And like for me, like I think inspiring the next generation
(42:08):
or just pushing on the sport of like female soccer
is something that like inspires me a lot.
And I didn't really find that until I actually started
playing soccer professionally.
And I feel like once I found that like higher purpose
or goal or motive, I feel like I found just like
kind of another gear, another level of like my profession.
So I think that's really cool.
Thanks for sharing.
Wow, yeah.
(42:29):
Yeah.
Finding and cultivating that purpose is just so powerful.
I love it.
Again, yeah, thank you for sharing.
Jeff, we are coming up on time.
So two minutes.
Here's my last question for you
because I want everyone out there,
the millions that will be listening and watching this.
You need to stop making that joke, Matt.
One day, you gotta believe.
(42:50):
I know, I know.
There will be millions.
That's actually gonna be true one day.
I know, right?
I need to believe.
Here we go.
What are you doing now?
What's forthcoming?
What's coming down the pike or the pipe,
depending on what part of the country you're from,
how you say that phrase.
Yeah, we're currently fundraising,
in the fundraising stage and soon moving into pre-production
(43:11):
for our first feature film, like our own independent.
We're producing it.
We're directing it together.
We've written it.
We're bringing a lot of amazing artists on board to do it,
but it's called Too Soon.
It's a story of a widow and a widower
who meet the day of their spouse's funerals
and form a kind of ad hoc music therapy style support group
(43:31):
for each other and eventually start, you know,
as they're filling in the gaps in each other's lives,
they eventually start having feelings for each other.
But it's like, it's too soon, right?
And so they start pulling back from that.
That creates the conflict.
But it's a romantic comedy and there's lots of music involved
because they come together to write music.
And that's the big project we're working on.
(43:56):
But yeah.
That's really cool.
So that's exciting.
Amazing.
And where, I mean, if people wanted to follow you
and follow this project or any other of the projects
that you've created or are creating,
how might one do that?
I mean, I don't post a lot, but I'm on Instagram,
Jeff Dickemore, at Jeff Dickemore.
And then St. Norma Jean is our production company
(44:18):
and that's on and then Aurora Florence,
she's on Instagram.
And anyway, it's, so that's where we are
and you can find us.
And hopefully watch our movie next year.
That's exciting.
Awesome.
Yeah.
I've watched some of your guys' YouTube stuff
and I think you guys are great and I really enjoy watching.
So I'm excited to continue to follow you guys
(44:39):
and your career and follow your success.
So thanks so much for joining us.
We really appreciate it.
Thank you for having me.
I just want to ask both of you more questions.
I want to catch up with Matt, but they're like,
Ashley, I have so many questions I would love to ask you
about what it's like to play professional soccer.
Yeah.
We'll do another episode.
How about that?
(44:59):
We'll catch up again.
Yeah.
Where I just get to ask you questions.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You just ask us questions.
Yeah, that'll be great.
Yes.
Okay, Jeff, we want to let you go.
Thank you again.
You're an amazing human being.
Respect and love you very much.
So please don't be a stranger.
I will, same to you.
Same to you.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial
Introducing… Aubrey O’Day Diddy’s former protege, television personality, platinum selling music artist, Danity Kane alum Aubrey O’Day joins veteran journalists Amy Robach and TJ Holmes to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Join them throughout the trial as they discuss, debate, and dissect every detail, every aspect of the proceedings. Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise, as only she is qualified to do given her first-hand knowledge. From her days on Making the Band, as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be the opposite of the glitz and glamour. Listen throughout every minute of the trial, for this exclusive coverage. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial, an iHeartRadio podcast.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.