July 29, 2024 • 47 mins
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In Episode #15, Ashley Hatch and Dr. Matt Moore discuss the concepts of the MAC approach and APE in sports psychology. They also talk about their walk-up songs and the experience of teaching. The main theme of the conversation is controlling the controllables, which refers to focusing on the things that one can control or influence in a given situation. They emphasize the importance of awareness, acceptance, and concentration on these controllable factors. They also discuss how attitude influences effort and how preparation sets the foundation for success. They share personal examples and highlight the correlation between these three components. The conversation concludes with a reflection exercise for listeners to assess their attitude, preparation, and effort on a daily basis.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Why in your experience is it important to place focus on things that are inside of your realm of controllability or influence in competition, training, and the whole experience?
(00:12):
I feel like the easy answer is there is so much outside of our control, especially in a sport like soccer, where it's not an individual sport.
You have teammates, coaches, fans, media.
There's so much that you can't control.
And so the more that we focus on those things, the more our attention is being taken away from the things that we can have direct influence over.
(00:34):
And the things that we can have direct influence over are the things that will most likely help us mentally, physically, emotionally improve in our sport.
Just there's so many things outside of our control and our influence.
So don't waste your time on all the other stuff.
Hey, everyone.
(00:56):
Welcome to Ditto.
I'm Ashley Hatch, professional soccer player for the Washington Spirit in the NWSL.
And I'm here with my co-host, Dr. Matt Moore.
Matt, how are you doing today?
Hey, everybody.
Hope you're doing well.
I'm doing really well.
I actually have a question for you, Ashley.
This has been in my mind, and I'm curious to see what your answer is.
(01:18):
Yeah, things are going really well.
Here's an interesting conversation that I had with my family.
We were talking about our walk up songs.
So if you were going up to the plate, you're playing softball, baseball, or even in my...
This is where I went, like going up to the octagon and you're like an MMA fighter and you're ready to just like literally kick somebody's face in.
(01:42):
What would be the walk up song that you would have playing while you're coming out of the locker room, walking up to this octagon?
Do you have your answer for that?
If you put it into that context of like walking into the octagon, I don't know if the song that I normally say like works.
Yeah, it's different.
(02:04):
The song that I normally say and it's a song that I used in track when I ran track in field in high school.
I use it to like calm me down and get me like in the right mindset for my race because I had some like so much nerves was My Girl by Temptations.
And I feel like I also would use it if I was playing baseball as a walk up song.
(02:26):
It's like a feel good song that everyone can connect to like emotionally.
Yeah.
And it's a little more like chill and casual, but like still kind of gets me in the groove.
But like walking into the octagon, I don't know. I had to think more about that one because that's like a whole nother level.
I know you need it.
You need it kind of dark.
(02:47):
I would probably have to do something by Halsey, but I don't know.
I don't know which song I'd have to look at her stuff.
Yeah, she's got some good ones.
I could weirdly see My Girl being a good choice for MMA.
Like it's like it's for me.
(03:08):
It's like, okay, maybe it could paint this picture.
I mean, depending on how you are as a fighter, right?
And what your record is and everything.
But if you're like really bad, A.S.S. and you're winning and you're kicking people's teeth in, that could be really cool.
I'm really confident.
You know, I know.
(03:28):
Yeah.
Anyways, I like the choice.
Okay.
Well, then once you find out a darker song, you'll have to.
What about you?
Let me know.
What did you say?
Yeah, I had two songs.
One was kind of up your alley.
Not as happy.
But it wasn't like I don't think a lot of people would pin this song in like the like rip your head off dark pump up mode like what MMA tends to be.
(03:54):
It's Johnny Cash.
And when the man comes around.
I think so.
But even the title itself.
I feel like it's really good.
Yeah.
So he's he's I believe most of the song he's quoting revelations like from the Bible.
(04:14):
But it's like I mean, the words and the tune is very like I first heard it actually training at an MMA gym.
And ever since then, it was like, oh, this is a great song.
Yeah.
So that's first.
And then my like really dark song is from Marilyn Manson.
It's the only song I like from Marilyn Manson.
So don't judge me people.
(04:36):
And it's called Beautiful People.
Have you heard that?
I think so.
Yeah.
Yep.
Yes.
You probably have.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The beautiful people.
The beautiful people.
That's a good one.
That one.
Anyways, those are my walk up songs.
Isn't that interesting?
I actually was in funnily enough, I was in my doctoral program with other PhD students and some of them being counseling students.
(05:02):
And one student's dissertation research was on music and counseling and music and psychology.
And like his area of focus was walk up songs.
That's that was his research.
Yeah.
I wish I knew more about it and like what his findings were and some of the supplemental research that he utilized.
But anyways, I'll have to check back in with him.
(05:24):
How close are you with him?
I think it's interesting.
Can we bring him on?
I think it kind of says a lot.
I honestly, I know we should.
I can't even remember his name.
It was five years ago.
I can see his face.
I'm really good with faces.
Are you good with faces or names or both?
Yeah, it's a lot easier for me to remember a face than name.
(05:45):
Yeah.
And there's a lot of stuff around that too.
Anyways, we could really get in the weeds here with a lot of this stuff.
Listeners, I want to hear what your walk up songs are.
Type in the socials.
What's your walk up song?
Because I think it's so fun to see people's choices, whether it's my girl or Marilyn Manson.
(06:07):
I think it's fun.
Anyways, so that was my opening question for you.
Yeah, thanks for playing along.
That is a good question.
Speaking of like your doctoral program,
you're looking very professorial today with your glasses.
When does school start for you?
Yeah, thanks.
(06:27):
My eyes were hurting today, so I had to put on my glasses.
School starts really early this year.
I don't know what the school system is doing.
Maybe it's here in the state of Utah, but I think it's nationwide.
We start the 19th.
I teach on Tuesdays and Thursdays at the U and it's so that'd be on the 20th.
August 20th.
So like a month from now?
(06:49):
I think so.
I'm actually like 10 weeks in and preparing my new lectures.
I was telling you the other week, I have to prepare all new lectures and we're using a
whole new textbook.
Thanks to me, I just wanted a more updated textbook and that was the trouble I put myself through.
But I'm like the first 10, 11 weeks in already with like assignments and PowerPoints and
(07:12):
lectures and discussions and everything.
So I'm excited to deliver and do it.
It's fun.
Teaching's fun.
Do you teach at all?
I know you do a lot of like speaking and like people invite you to go talk at this or go
do that.
Do you ever do any kind of teaching?
Yeah, more speaking events, coaching more than teaching.
(07:35):
I mean, unless I get asked to do like a Sunday school lesson or something in church.
But nothing else really outside of that.
Mostly just sharing experiences and speaking and that kind of stuff.
But the preparation part of it is probably my favorite because I feel like that's where I
am very intentional and I get to like remind myself of things and lessons that I've learned and
(08:01):
try and think of ways to be able to articulate that that I can share with others so they can
also relate to the lessons.
I really enjoy that aspect of it.
But the actual like standing in front of people and like speaking always makes me so nervous.
But it's always a lot of fun.
It's I feel like I grow a lot.
So I'm sure being a professor, you probably feel similar, but it's kind of fun.
(08:24):
Yeah, I still get nervous.
In fact, I have to have a water bottle with me when I teach because my mouth gets dry
because I'm nervous.
But it's weird how like, here we go, like the awareness of your nervousness and then
changing your relationship with it.
Like I totally recognize that I get nervous and one of the symptoms physiologically for
me is my mouth goes dry.
(08:46):
And so I combat that with like, honestly, sometimes it's every two minutes I'm sipping
on my water bottle when I'm like really nervous.
But then you get in this weird flow of, oh my gosh, I love this material.
This stuff is so applicable.
Hopefully they find it interesting.
And it kind of, it doesn't go away, but you just, you know, get accustomed to what you
(09:10):
have to do while getting in this state of and just pure enjoyment and, you know, telling
people about something that you love, at least in my case, I know sometimes you're having
to teach whether it's Sunday school or somewhere else where, you know, you're teaching about
things you don't always love.
But I mean, the old adage of if you really want to learn something, you have to be able
(09:32):
to learn something, teach it is so, so true.
I mean, you just alluded to that concept and, you know, I'm having to reread an entire textbook
and create lesson plans on it.
And, you know, 90% of it in theory, I already know, but as I'm reviewing it, I'm like, oh
yeah, this theory is really applicable.
Oh my gosh, this model, I totally forgot that it has this component to it.
(09:56):
And, and then there's updated research with it that makes it even more interesting and
applicable.
So that's so cool.
It's funny.
Do you think you'll have or is that some, is that something that you set or is it the
university that sets that?
No, I wish I wish.
So University of Utah is a pretty big school and the Department of Health and Kinesiology
(10:17):
is pretty big.
And so I have two sections where there's about 80 students in each section.
And then, and then a third section where I think there's like seven students.
So the, so I'm teaching this semester and usually it's for this semester, I'm teaching
three courses, two sections of exercise psychology, and then a sports psychology course.
(10:38):
The exercise psych is a requirement.
And so you get every health and kinesiology major having to take exercise psychology.
And they're usually freshmen, if not kind of sophomore range.
So there's a lot, there's a lot of students.
It's kind of hard to formulate discussion.
With that many people.
And kind of a hands-on approach.
(11:00):
Yeah, because I really enjoy doing that.
And so I've tried to be creative and making it more interesting and more engaging for
that many students.
And then there's an online section of it.
And so I have to make, be even more creative with that so they can spend.
Like students attending online, is that what you're saying?
It's fun.
Or?
So one section is all online and then one section is in person and you can,
(11:23):
sure you can register for either.
Yeah.
For either method or methodology.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So tell me soccer stuff for those.
I know this is going to come out like later than where we are present day.
But where are we at with Washington Spirit?
How's the season going?
How you feeling overall?
Give us kind of what.
Yeah, season is going well.
(11:44):
We just got off our CBA break, which is really nice.
So we had a mandatory.
CBA stands for?
Bargaining agreement, so our agreement between the players and the NWSL,
which we ratified a year over a year, a little over a year ago.
(12:05):
And in that negotiations, we negotiated for a break for all players in the middle of the season.
So this is our second year of being able to actually enjoy it.
So Jeff and I went out to Wilmington, North Carolina and spent some time with
an old teammate and friend, Tori Huster.
She's living out there and just went to the beach every day
(12:26):
and enjoyed lots of good food and sunshine and sand everywhere.
What did you eat?
Tell me what you ate.
We got some really good Italian style, like Neapolitan style pizza.
So that was really good.
Yep.
(12:46):
Like wood fire burn.
Yeah.
Throwed in a classic oven.
It was amazing.
Oh, it's so good.
It comes out kind of black, the crust.
So that was really good.
That's delicious.
We also went, Italian was our theme.
We also went to this really nice Italian restaurant and we just got a bunch of like
different pasta dishes and starters and kind of shared everything and it was amazing.
(13:08):
And then of course we ate probably too much ice cream.
So.
Gelato or did you just do ice cream?
Mostly, I think it was all ice cream.
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, we did.
You didn't continue with the Italian thing.
Yeah.
To get gelato.
There might have been one place that was gelato, I can't remember, but yeah, just ice cream.
But yeah, so it was a lot of fun and now we're back at it.
(13:29):
We have a summer cup coming up, so we have a game on Sunday and just preparing for that.
People coming back from break and getting ready for the second half of the season.
So yeah, things are going well.
And then season, that's awesome.
Season is September.
It kind of wraps up in September.
Is that right?
Or August?
(13:49):
Championship is like the week before Thanksgiving.
So we go all the way to November.
Oh, wow.
It's really far to then I thought.
That's why we needed this break.
We got to get ready for the second half of the season.
So yeah, so plenty of season ahead of us.
So yeah, we're in a good spot.
Totally.
Who's kind of top of the line?
(14:09):
Who's definitely one of the top teams?
I think we're third on the table right now.
And then you got Kansas City and Orlando, who are both sitting one and two right now,
I think.
So like I said, like I always say, like every team is good and every game is hard.
So like last season, we went all the way until like the very last day to see who made it
(14:34):
to playoffs and.
It was crazy.
They called it decision day for a good reason because it made a lot of decisions.
Yeah.
D-Day.
Yeah, so it was really good.
But yeah, things are good.
Cool.
Are we going to talk about something sports psyche or mental performance today?
(14:57):
I think so.
What should we talk about?
I know.
So audience for those of you who are watching, I think you're going to be able to talk about
those that are wondering.
Like we we try our best to find topics that are generalized that anyone and everyone can
relate to, you know, especially from a sporting context.
(15:19):
This is where the world that we're where we're coming from.
But the idea is, you know, for you to walk away going, oh, as a mother, as a business
person, as an athlete, as a coach, as a high school student, whatever, I can apply these
principles.
And so that's kind of the thought processes that Ashley and I go through when we're like,
(15:40):
OK, what topic should we choose today?
What topics we choose today?
And today we were both incorrect.
Me from wrong, Ashley.
In this headspace of.
We haven't specifically and explicitly talked about.
This idea of being able to control what you can control in the domain or the environment
(16:02):
that you find yourself in.
A lot of the times, especially in the sporting world, they call this the controlling the
controllables experience or.
Headspace or mindset or whatever you want to phrase it.
So that is kind of the theme and where we want to go today.
So what do we mean by controlling the controllables?
(16:26):
I mean, it's exactly how it sounds, essentially, right?
You in whatever domain that you find yourself in.
Are picking first, you have to become aware this is where once again, mindfulness really
comes into play.
You have to know in the environment of the domain that you find yourself in, what can
I control in this space?
(16:50):
And then you place your full effort and your concentration on those things.
Here's the.
Paradoxical thing for me and the weird and challenging thing, at least for me and how
I teach this.
Unfortunately, there's very little things in our life that we have control over.
(17:12):
And I would argue even full 100% control is very important.
Control is very unlikely.
And so I even like to throw in the word influence like what rather than control, what do you
have direct influence over that for me?
Sometimes, you know, paints this picture of acceptance, which for me is paramount.
(17:34):
We've already talked about this vital role of accepting and acknowledging the reality
of your situation.
So again.
Recognizing I can influence X, Y, Z.
That's where I'm going to be placing my focus.
Does that make sense?
So before we kind of go over, Ash, like what are some of the things that you can influence
(17:57):
or you can control?
I want to ask you, you know, especially as a soccer player.
Why in your experience is it important to place focus on things that are inside of your
realm of controllability or influence?
In competition, in training, in the whole experience.
(18:17):
I mean, I feel like the easy answer, I mean, what you kind of already said and alluded
to is there is so much outside of our control, especially in a sport like soccer where it's
not an individual sport.
You have teammates, you have coaches, you have fans, you have media and just those that
list alone.
(18:40):
There's so much that you can do.
There's so much that you can't control.
And so the more that we focus on those things, the more our attention is being taken away
from the things that we can have direct influence over and the things that we can have direct
influence over are the things that will most likely help us mentally, physically, emotionally
(19:04):
improve in our sport.
So that's my short answer for you is just there's so many things outside of our control
and our influence.
So don't waste your time.
Don't waste your time on all the other stuff.
It's a beautiful, it's a beautiful, simple answer.
Like don't waste your time because it's precious, especially if you're in a very high performing
(19:25):
environment like professional soccer.
The other answer that I often allude to, I often tell people and teach people is more
often than not, when you are experiencing debilitating anxiety or stress, especially
psychologically, you're going to this place of rumination, especially if it's after an
(19:46):
event or prior to an event, right?
Where anxiety and stress tend to set in.
And again, more often than not, we're thinking about things that we can't control.
So if it's after an event that happened, something that already happened, and maybe something
went bad, you're a goalie and you let a ball go by you and they scored one zero and you
(20:08):
lost the game.
Okay.
Okay.
Well, now you're ruminating on things that you can't do.
It's, it's past like that thing already happened.
So why are we, like you said, Ashley, wasting time ruminating, psychologically spending
time, real estate in that arena, we can't control it.
(20:29):
What we can't control is what we are doing moving forward.
And then with anxiety, like anxiety tends to creep up.
Especially psychologically when we're thinking about, and when we're thinking about something
that hasn't happened yet, and we're starting to think about again, more often than not,
things that we can't control.
(20:50):
This opponent is really fast.
This opponent has scored five goals just in the last game alone.
This team is 15 and oh, or whatever it might be.
These are things that we can't control.
But we as human beings tend again, more often than not to spend so much time in these areas
(21:10):
psychologically.
And so the huge benefit one is like Ashley was alluding to or said is, well, spend your
time wisely and don't waste your time.
And one of those things is psychologically zeroing in on things that you have direct
influence over now.
What do you have direct influence over?
(21:33):
What are these so-called controllables?
And I want to break these down and then get your take, especially from your perspective
in professional soccer, Ashley, what these actually look like.
So for the past, I don't know, six, seven years of my young professional career, I've
used this acronym APE.
I don't know who I stole it from.
We're always as professionals stealing things from other professionals.
(21:54):
So I can't credit where I'm at.
I'm sorry, but APE.
So when I go over, okay, Ashley or Fred or whoever it is I'm talking to, what do you
have direct influence over, whether it's in training or competition or anywhere else?
It's APE.
A stands for attitude.
P stands for preparation.
(22:16):
And E stands for effort.
So what does it look like?
So A essentially is your disposition.
Like are you willing to do something?
Disposition like are you going into training on a day to day basis with optimism?
Are you, do you have good energy around your teammates or are you bringing people down?
(22:37):
Do you have a positive attitude or a negative attitude?
And I know even five year olds, I have a seven year old in fact, she knows what a good attitude
is, whether it's going to church or going to school or wherever else.
So you as a human being, again, more often than not, you have direct influence on an
(22:58):
attitude.
So bringing a positive attitude to practice, to the boardroom, to relationships is in your
control.
So spend time in preparing for a good attitude.
Right now, before I go into preparation, let me ask you, Ashley, both kind of ends of the
spectrum, negative attitudes, positive attitudes.
(23:19):
What has been your experience both in training and in competition of this role of attitude
and its influence on you holistically and your teammates as well?
I mean, it has a huge influence on me and my teammates.
I would like to say that I'm a more positive and optimistic type person.
(23:43):
And so therefore, when I'm around other people, hopefully that like rubs off on them.
But as you were talking about this, I actually just looked at my journal and I have two examples
that one's a good one and one's a bad one of what I was journaling about.
Yeah.
When I was journaling about APE and one day I said yesterday I had an optimistic attitude.
(24:07):
My effort was there all day on the field and in the gym.
And then this has to do with preparation.
But I also watched film that helped me find areas where I can improve on my finishing.
So that one I started with my attitude.
I had an optimistic attitude.
I feel like that bled into my effort because I had a more positive outlook on my training
(24:30):
or just the opportunity in front of me.
And I feel like that directly bled into my effort.
And so I feel like if our attitude is in the right spot, then our effort will be going
in the right direction.
And then the bad example was actually just the next day.
I said I noticed my attitude drop for a split second during a drill.
(24:52):
I let my frustration visibly show.
Once it happened, I noticed it and fixed my attitude and had more helpful conversations
with my teammates.
So that's an example of where I feel like my attitude directly influenced my body language
and my effort.
But when I was able to recognize that my attitude was the problem, I was able to fix it and
(25:18):
then have more helpful conversations or find a solution or actually move in the right direction
instead of dwelling on mistakes.
So those are two examples for you that I just like flipped to.
Beautiful examples.
It's amazing how on both times you correlated your attitude with your behaviors and how
(25:41):
you performed.
It's amazing that connection that this from a scientific standpoint is very cognitive
behavioral.
So CBT, it's a therapy, it's a theory that essentially highlights the importance of
thoughts and its relationship with how it affects our emotions and how those emotions
and those thoughts ultimately affect our behaviors and vice versa.
(26:03):
How behaviors affect our emotions and emotions affect our thoughts.
Having a good attitude is the engine to that.
Yeah.
Right.
And so if we can have a positive attitude, and it doesn't mean people like always being
this positive person, happy person.
(26:24):
You know what I mean?
Like, you know people when they're positive air quotes and it's just not authentic.
And then like SHIT hits the fan and it goes down, right?
Because it's this facade of positivity.
That for me is this toxic type of positivity.
(26:45):
You can still be positive and not always have to smile and not always have to be telling
jokes and not always have to paint this picture of the happy person.
Right?
So and find that unique and more importantly, authentic positive attitude in yourself.
(27:06):
First, like Ashley was talking about, it starts and ends with awareness.
You need to become more aware of where your attitude is currently, where it usually goes
and what happens.
And then you can adjust microcosms and macrocosms of adjustments with your attitude from there.
But then finding the authenticity behind it is where the power comes from.
(27:28):
So then you're adjusting consistently and continuously throughout the day on finding
this positive attitude and something that you can control your spending time and something
that is worth your time, not not worth your time.
That makes sense.
(27:48):
Anyways, okay, so there's the A for attitude.
Then we got the P for preparation.
Obviously for professional athletes and coaches, this is a huge thing.
One quote that I've always used for this preparation one is, I think it's from Gary Player.
He was a professional golfer like a long time ago.
He said, the more I practice, the luckier I get.
(28:09):
That for me is preparation.
Like Peyton Manning, one of my favorite football players of all time because he's a Tennessee
Vol and he's a Denver Broncos, two teams that I absolutely love.
He was the king of preparation.
And I mean, you can share numerous examples throughout history, especially in sports,
of how preparation is key to being successful, especially long term success.
(28:36):
Those that I would argue are in the Goat Hall of Fame and whatever sport you can think of,
were kings and queens and princes and princesses of preparing and preparing religiously for
their craft.
So let me ask you, Ashley, being a professional soccer player, similar to attitude, how has
(28:58):
preparation, both good, bad, in between, played a role in your experience, individual experience
and in kind of this collective team experience as well?
Again, it plays a huge role.
I think there's so many different aspects of preparation when it comes to, especially
individual preparation, whether it's my preparation for the day, nutrition, sleep, taking care
(29:20):
of my body, taking care of my mind, preparing for a specific opponent, studying the opponent,
watching film of myself, areas that I can improve on.
Then you look at preparation when it comes to gym and activation and cool down and warm
up and all that kind of preparation.
(29:41):
There's just so much preparation, so many different aspects of the game where you do
need to prepare.
A lot of that preparation has become habitual just because it is so important.
But from a team aspect and preparing for an opponent, we have a pretty good rhythm of
what that looks like when we come in after a game.
We rewatch our game, areas where we can improve, areas that we did good.
(30:07):
What areas from that game can we then take and implement to prepare us for the next opponent,
if there are any, and then throughout the week on different days we'll study different areas
of the opponent's game and we'll implement that into our training.
So yeah, I could go on for hours probably on all the preparation that I do.
(30:28):
Right.
So let me throw a hypothetical, and maybe in your experience this isn't a hypothetical,
maybe it's actually happened.
Has there ever been a time where either your preparation has been cut short for whatever
reason, and then as a result, how do you feel afterwards, either going into training or
competition or whatever?
(30:49):
Maybe you were sick, maybe COVID happens, maybe anything.
As a result, for some reason, preparation was cut short.
What happened?
I actually have a recent example.
It's like a small example, but taking corner kicks is something that I haven't done since
like high school.
Like I am usually in the box trying to score at the ball.
(31:12):
Last year I got asked to do it several times and it was something that I practiced pretty
regularly.
But we had a game recently where when I went in, all of our roles were kind of mixed up
and a coach asked me to take the corner kicks and I was like, okay.
And I had always taken them, if you're looking at the goal, on the left side so I can take
(31:33):
it with my right foot and it'll be an end swinger.
Are you following?
Okay.
I love that term.
There you go.
New soccer term for you.
It sounds kind of weird.
It sounds kind of dirty, but keep going.
Why did you have to do that?
That's a proper term.
Okay.
(31:54):
I know.
I'm sorry.
I got in and I had to take a corner kick, but this time it had to be on the right.
And I can't remember the last time I've taken a corner kick on the right.
So do I try taking it left footed or do I take it right footed?
And could you even do it with your right?
If it was on the right side?
Is that way too awkward?
So it'll curl out instead of into the goal.
All right.
So I can take it on my right.
(32:14):
It's just the approach is different.
And most of the time if you have a lefty on your team, they'll take it from that side.
So it can be an end swinger because it's more advantageous for your team.
So anyway, I get the ball.
My thought process was not the best.
I was like, okay, what do I do?
I didn't know what to do.
I was like, I hope he calls it a short corner.
(32:37):
Sure enough, he didn't call a short corner.
I'm supposed to kick it in there and I'm like, okay, let's see how this goes.
And it was terrible.
I didn't even get it in the air.
My execution was terrible.
I know that I can do it, but I hadn't practiced it.
And I do remember that week of training, kind of thinking, oh, I should probably practice
(32:58):
this from both sides.
But I didn't because I ran out of time.
There were so many other things that I practiced and the training.
That crossed your mind before the match, before the game?
Yeah.
And I ran out of time.
And the training before, which we call match day minus one.
It's another term for you.
The training before.
(33:18):
Okay.
Yes.
Before the game.
So match day minus one training.
It's supposed to be a feel good training.
Like you're supposed to do, we play a lot of games.
We were competitive.
We touched the ball a lot.
We do a lot of shooting.
It's supposed to be a training that helps you like feel good mentally, physically, and
prepare for the game.
And usually get like 10, 15, 20 minutes at the end to do what we want.
(33:42):
A lot of times I'll practice my PKs during that time or shooting.
And that's the time to like practice free kicks, corner kicks, any set plays that you
feel like you just need a little bit extra reps on.
And I wanted to get to corners, but we ran out of time and we had to go in.
And so I was just like, whoops, like didn't have time to do it.
(34:04):
So then I had that experience in the game and I was kind of like upset with myself because
like it was an opportunity that I could have helped the team, you know, execute a little
bit better on a corner kick, but I didn't make the same mistake twice.
I, the next week I practiced it, had the exact same scenario.
I went in, got asked to take the corner kicks.
(34:25):
It was on the right side.
I was in the better head space about it.
I knew what I did wrong from the last time and I executed it well.
So there's an example for you of when my preparation wasn't as good as it could have been.
Yeah, I love it.
Wow.
Yeah.
Beautiful example again of utilizing a component of your experience that you can control to
(34:51):
make it to your advantage eventually, right?
You learned kind of the negative aspect of it and not being as prepared as you could
have been.
And then the positive and being as prepared as you possibly can.
I know we all as human beings can relate to this.
Especially my domain of academia and being a student, I remember it was like to be a
student and then going into a test, ill-prepared, unprepared.
(35:14):
Well, of course you're not going to feel good.
And of course you're most likely going to do bad, right?
In fact, I remember I had to pass math.
Yeah.
Math was not good.
Pass math. Math was never my thing.
Jeff is good.
So at least one of us in the family is good at math.
Oh, he is good.
(35:35):
Yeah.
My wife's actually pretty good at math as well.
Of course I needed to pass to move on and eventually get my degree.
And I had experienced this same horrible preparation leading like three years up to this
of not preparing for math tests and not preparing for homework and not...
(35:56):
Because I didn't like it mostly, but I became lazy with the preparation.
So finally I thought, okay, I need to change this.
And so my preparation became I need to utilize the services of this university and go get a tutor.
They had tutors for free.
(36:16):
Didn't have to do anything.
You just had to go set up an appointment.
I know.
And I said, hey, I'm taking this math class.
I need some help with this math.
I need to get a good grade.
And they gave me a tutor.
And so for the next five months, I met with this tutor in the library
three days a week, maybe two days a week.
And that one-on-one setting of him going over this math with me was a game changer.
(36:40):
And so of course I went into these tests that semester much more prepared.
And I got a B plus out of the class.
And that was huge for me because it was like Ds prior to that.
Anyways, utilizing this one, especially I would argue might be, maybe I won't even say that.
It might be the most important of the three, this attitude, preparation, and effort.
(37:02):
But I think all have a very, very important role.
Anyways, preparation people.
Okay, so here's the last one.
And we can wrap up on this topic is effort.
Again, I think something that we can all relate to, right?
Quoting some of the greats, at least in sport, something that I've loved to say
(37:25):
as it pertains to effort is Billie Jean King's, the wonderful tennis player
and advocate of women's sports in general.
She said, champions keep playing until they get it right.
So it's not that champions are always getting it right.
They are continuously failing and continuously getting better until they become champions.
(37:47):
Until they become champion after champion after champion, right?
That for me screams effort.
Knowing that failure is a part of the process, especially in a sport for me,
following softball and following baseball where failure is a part of the game.
I mean, if you're hitting three out of 10 pitches, you're considered really, really great.
(38:14):
Which is, it sounds really, really weird.
Three out of 10 sounds very good.
But in the game of baseball and softball, it's excellent.
You're batting 300 and that's an excellent batting average.
So for me, it's that, it's this kind of growth mindset orientation of knowing that effort
(38:34):
is paramount in whatever it is that you're doing so that you can get better.
If we're not putting effort into things, we're not going to get better.
And something that I've always advocated for and I've always taught is, as it pertains to effort,
is, you know, you're never going to consistently on a day-to-day basis, fill 100%.
(39:01):
Whether it's soccer or business or school or whatever it might be.
And that's okay because you're a human being.
It's like a phone battery.
Sometimes you forget to charge your battery overnight and you wake up with like 30%.
And then sometimes you leave the phone in the charger and you're at 100%.
That's the same for our activity, our physiological and psychological batteries.
We just aren't consistently always, always filling at 100%.
(39:24):
But here's the thing.
The important thing is to give 100% of whatever percentage that you have for that day.
That's effort.
Recognizing that I'm at 75% today.
I'm not feeling very well.
I only got five hours of sleep, but I'm going to give everything I can to what I have for today.
That's improvement.
That for me is success.
(39:45):
And that is effort and is something that you have direct influence over.
So similarly, Ashley, let me ask you, what has the concept of effort played?
What role has it played?
I'm going to get this question right.
In your experience of being a professional soccer player.
Similar to other two, a huge role.
(40:06):
I feel like effort is probably one of my favorite because I feel like I'm a very hardworking
type player where it's like I, when I'm putting in the effort,
I therefore have more confidence.
And therefore that confidence leads to just more success.
And effort is one thing that I feel like I always turn to if I feel like I'm not playing well,
(40:30):
or if I want to improve, or if we lost a game.
Like the first thing I want to do is go practice again or go try again.
And I feel like that is where the effort piece comes in to things that we can control.
And just even growing up, that's something that my sister and I always did.
We always put in the effort.
(40:50):
We always went in high school, we would run sprints.
We would do these PK runs every single day where we'd line up on the 18.
And one by one we'd take a PK and you'd have to, as soon as the person took it,
you'd have to run to half field and back.
And then anyone who missed it had to go again.
And if they missed it, we'd have to run there and back.
(41:11):
And my sister and I were the two annoying players that every single rep we put in the effort.
We didn't like sandbag it until the last one.
But yeah, I think effort is huge.
And when you are consistently putting in the effort, then you will continue to see improvement
and you will get to, no matter what is outside your control, you will improve as an individual
(41:37):
and as a player.
And it will also, I feel like, build your character and you'll be able to figure out
what you're capable of and you'll be able to push your limits and you'll be able to
just continue to climb.
And so effort is something that I think is just paramount when it comes to sports in general.
Yeah, I mean, I couldn't agree more.
Ditto.
It's interesting to talk about effort specifically with people or individuals that
(42:05):
don't know that threshold.
You know what I mean?
Like they haven't gone in the uncomfortable.
In whatever domain it might be, especially in a domain like sport where physically is
kind of the uncomfortable.
They haven't pushed themselves to exhaustion or where they're going to throw up or even
being in a real high pressure situation where you're having to kick a PK or having to shoot
(42:29):
the game winning free throw.
And so it's interesting to again have this conversation of, you know, self-discovery
is required so that you know where your efforts lie and how much you're actually able to give.
Because guess what? You're probably able to give a lot more than you think you are.
(42:52):
One of my favorite guys to read and to listen to, and he has a wonderful book, is David Goggins.
And he has this amazing quote.
I'm paraphrasing here that none of it's backed by evidence-based research.
So I'm coming from pop culture here, which is fine.
But he's been through so much.
He's a Navy SEAL and like a green beret and he's run a thousand like ironmans and
(43:15):
ultra marathons.
And anyways, his quote is, again, paraphrasing is,
usually as human beings, we've only given 40%.
That's the number he landed on with what we actually think we're capable of giving.
So when we think, oh my gosh, I'm exhausted.
Oh my gosh, mentally, this is way too hard.
(43:36):
It's in his mind and his theory and in his lived experiences, which is very much,
it's only 40% of what we're actually able to do.
And so it requires going in the uncomfortable.
It requires pushing the limits in a safe and respectful and reasonable way,
kind of on that day to day basis so that you can again, harness this amazing component of
(44:01):
controllability and one of them being.
I mean, I feel like your attitude and your preparation can directly influence your effort.
Like I know for me, when my attitude is right, when I have put in the preparation,
then my effort is going to be there.
It's going to increase.
I'm going to have that confidence because of my preparation and my attitude is going to drive
(44:23):
that, that body language of like, okay, I believe in myself.
I can do this.
And I feel like that corner kick example is a perfect example.
Like I was my attitude.
I, the Ashley who just totally botched the corner kick, you know, I could have dwelled on that.
I could have like, had that paralyze me, but like instead I was like, okay, my attitude is going to
(44:49):
be, I'm not going to let that happen again.
I'm going to put in the preparation and then therefore that my effort, my next effort of
doing it was, was better and improved.
And so now that is going to therefore fuel my next effort and I'm going to do it again.
I'm going to like, okay, I'm going to continue to prepare because that's what brought me success.
(45:09):
And so I think if your attitude and your preparation are in the right spot and if they're
there, then your effort will automatically benefit from both of those things.
It's amazing to see the correlation and the relationship of all three of those.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
As you just, as you just expanded upon.
So people out there get your ape on, become the, your inner ape, feed the inner ape, which is your
(45:36):
attitude and your preparation, your effort.
I promise.
And I know Ashley can attest to this.
It will make life a lot easier in whatever domain you find yourself in, especially from a
psychological and emotional level.
You won't be tied down to rumination and anxiety and stress as much.
Now you still, because you're a human being are going to experience those things, but the
(45:58):
trick is the awareness, the acceptance, and then going to those controllables, going to those
things that you can influence during training, during competition, during the meetings, during
whatever it might be, and then consistently practicing, you know, going to these so-called
tools of controllability.
Hopefully that was helpful, everybody.
(46:19):
I think so.
I think one thing that taught me is like we've, we've referenced the journal many times, but if
anyone is looking for something to actively do with this stuff that we're talking about, like
write on a piece of paper, how was my ape today attitude?
What, what did it look like?
What was my preparation?
What did that look like?
What was my effort?
(46:39):
What did that look like?
And I just feel like that increases your self-awareness.
And then the next, the next day, I feel like you'll be able to reflect on what you've written and
then you'll be able to just continue to improve. And when you look back at your week, you'll see
the progress that you've made and it's, it's very rewarding, but it's also something, an action that
you could take to actually do these things and apply them to your life.
So I just want to invite people to do that.
(47:04):
Wonderful exercise reflection.
How was your ape today?
Love it.
Wonderful way to improve.
Excellent advice.
Awesome.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, should we wrap this up?
Our favorite part.
We don't like saying goodbye.
Bye.
Bye.
Thanks everyone.
Thanks for joining us.
Like, subscribe, comment, share your walkout song.
(47:26):
All of the above.
Yeah.
Yeah.
See that.
Why in your experience is it important to place focus on things that are inside of your realm of controllability or influence in competition, training, and the whole experience?
(00:12):
I feel like the easy answer is there is so much outside of our control, especially in a sport like soccer, where it's not an individual sport.
You have teammates, coaches, fans, media.
There's so much that you can't control.
And so the more that we focus on those things, the more our attention is being taken away from the things that we can have direct influence over.
(00:34):
And the things that we can have direct influence over are the things that will most likely help us mentally, physically, emotionally improve in our sport.
Just there's so many things outside of our control and our influence.
So don't waste your time on all the other stuff.
Hey, everyone.
(00:56):
Welcome to Ditto.
I'm Ashley Hatch, professional soccer player for the Washington Spirit in the NWSL.
And I'm here with my co-host, Dr. Matt Moore.
Matt, how are you doing today?
Hey, everybody.
Hope you're doing well.
I'm doing really well.
I actually have a question for you, Ashley.
This has been in my mind, and I'm curious to see what your answer is.
(01:18):
Yeah, things are going really well.
Here's an interesting conversation that I had with my family.
We were talking about our walk up songs.
So if you were going up to the plate, you're playing softball, baseball, or even in my...
This is where I went, like going up to the octagon and you're like an MMA fighter and you're ready to just like literally kick somebody's face in.
(01:42):
What would be the walk up song that you would have playing while you're coming out of the locker room, walking up to this octagon?
Do you have your answer for that?
If you put it into that context of like walking into the octagon, I don't know if the song that I normally say like works.
Yeah, it's different.
(02:04):
The song that I normally say and it's a song that I used in track when I ran track in field in high school.
I use it to like calm me down and get me like in the right mindset for my race because I had some like so much nerves was My Girl by Temptations.
And I feel like I also would use it if I was playing baseball as a walk up song.
(02:26):
It's like a feel good song that everyone can connect to like emotionally.
Yeah.
And it's a little more like chill and casual, but like still kind of gets me in the groove.
But like walking into the octagon, I don't know. I had to think more about that one because that's like a whole nother level.
I know you need it.
You need it kind of dark.
(02:47):
I would probably have to do something by Halsey, but I don't know.
I don't know which song I'd have to look at her stuff.
Yeah, she's got some good ones.
I could weirdly see My Girl being a good choice for MMA.
Like it's like it's for me.
(03:08):
It's like, okay, maybe it could paint this picture.
I mean, depending on how you are as a fighter, right?
And what your record is and everything.
But if you're like really bad, A.S.S. and you're winning and you're kicking people's teeth in, that could be really cool.
I'm really confident.
You know, I know.
(03:28):
Yeah.
Anyways, I like the choice.
Okay.
Well, then once you find out a darker song, you'll have to.
What about you?
Let me know.
What did you say?
Yeah, I had two songs.
One was kind of up your alley.
Not as happy.
But it wasn't like I don't think a lot of people would pin this song in like the like rip your head off dark pump up mode like what MMA tends to be.
(03:54):
It's Johnny Cash.
And when the man comes around.
I think so.
But even the title itself.
I feel like it's really good.
Yeah.
So he's he's I believe most of the song he's quoting revelations like from the Bible.
(04:14):
But it's like I mean, the words and the tune is very like I first heard it actually training at an MMA gym.
And ever since then, it was like, oh, this is a great song.
Yeah.
So that's first.
And then my like really dark song is from Marilyn Manson.
It's the only song I like from Marilyn Manson.
So don't judge me people.
(04:36):
And it's called Beautiful People.
Have you heard that?
I think so.
Yeah.
Yep.
Yes.
You probably have.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
The beautiful people.
The beautiful people.
That's a good one.
That one.
Anyways, those are my walk up songs.
Isn't that interesting?
I actually was in funnily enough, I was in my doctoral program with other PhD students and some of them being counseling students.
(05:02):
And one student's dissertation research was on music and counseling and music and psychology.
And like his area of focus was walk up songs.
That's that was his research.
Yeah.
I wish I knew more about it and like what his findings were and some of the supplemental research that he utilized.
But anyways, I'll have to check back in with him.
(05:24):
How close are you with him?
I think it's interesting.
Can we bring him on?
I think it kind of says a lot.
I honestly, I know we should.
I can't even remember his name.
It was five years ago.
I can see his face.
I'm really good with faces.
Are you good with faces or names or both?
Yeah, it's a lot easier for me to remember a face than name.
(05:45):
Yeah.
And there's a lot of stuff around that too.
Anyways, we could really get in the weeds here with a lot of this stuff.
Listeners, I want to hear what your walk up songs are.
Type in the socials.
What's your walk up song?
Because I think it's so fun to see people's choices, whether it's my girl or Marilyn Manson.
(06:07):
I think it's fun.
Anyways, so that was my opening question for you.
Yeah, thanks for playing along.
That is a good question.
Speaking of like your doctoral program,
you're looking very professorial today with your glasses.
When does school start for you?
Yeah, thanks.
(06:27):
My eyes were hurting today, so I had to put on my glasses.
School starts really early this year.
I don't know what the school system is doing.
Maybe it's here in the state of Utah, but I think it's nationwide.
We start the 19th.
I teach on Tuesdays and Thursdays at the U and it's so that'd be on the 20th.
August 20th.
So like a month from now?
(06:49):
I think so.
I'm actually like 10 weeks in and preparing my new lectures.
I was telling you the other week, I have to prepare all new lectures and we're using a
whole new textbook.
Thanks to me, I just wanted a more updated textbook and that was the trouble I put myself through.
But I'm like the first 10, 11 weeks in already with like assignments and PowerPoints and
(07:12):
lectures and discussions and everything.
So I'm excited to deliver and do it.
It's fun.
Teaching's fun.
Do you teach at all?
I know you do a lot of like speaking and like people invite you to go talk at this or go
do that.
Do you ever do any kind of teaching?
Yeah, more speaking events, coaching more than teaching.
(07:35):
I mean, unless I get asked to do like a Sunday school lesson or something in church.
But nothing else really outside of that.
Mostly just sharing experiences and speaking and that kind of stuff.
But the preparation part of it is probably my favorite because I feel like that's where I
am very intentional and I get to like remind myself of things and lessons that I've learned and
(08:01):
try and think of ways to be able to articulate that that I can share with others so they can
also relate to the lessons.
I really enjoy that aspect of it.
But the actual like standing in front of people and like speaking always makes me so nervous.
But it's always a lot of fun.
It's I feel like I grow a lot.
So I'm sure being a professor, you probably feel similar, but it's kind of fun.
(08:24):
Yeah, I still get nervous.
In fact, I have to have a water bottle with me when I teach because my mouth gets dry
because I'm nervous.
But it's weird how like, here we go, like the awareness of your nervousness and then
changing your relationship with it.
Like I totally recognize that I get nervous and one of the symptoms physiologically for
me is my mouth goes dry.
(08:46):
And so I combat that with like, honestly, sometimes it's every two minutes I'm sipping
on my water bottle when I'm like really nervous.
But then you get in this weird flow of, oh my gosh, I love this material.
This stuff is so applicable.
Hopefully they find it interesting.
And it kind of, it doesn't go away, but you just, you know, get accustomed to what you
(09:10):
have to do while getting in this state of and just pure enjoyment and, you know, telling
people about something that you love, at least in my case, I know sometimes you're having
to teach whether it's Sunday school or somewhere else where, you know, you're teaching about
things you don't always love.
But I mean, the old adage of if you really want to learn something, you have to be able
(09:32):
to learn something, teach it is so, so true.
I mean, you just alluded to that concept and, you know, I'm having to reread an entire textbook
and create lesson plans on it.
And, you know, 90% of it in theory, I already know, but as I'm reviewing it, I'm like, oh
yeah, this theory is really applicable.
Oh my gosh, this model, I totally forgot that it has this component to it.
(09:56):
And, and then there's updated research with it that makes it even more interesting and
applicable.
So that's so cool.
It's funny.
Do you think you'll have or is that some, is that something that you set or is it the
university that sets that?
No, I wish I wish.
So University of Utah is a pretty big school and the Department of Health and Kinesiology
(10:17):
is pretty big.
And so I have two sections where there's about 80 students in each section.
And then, and then a third section where I think there's like seven students.
So the, so I'm teaching this semester and usually it's for this semester, I'm teaching
three courses, two sections of exercise psychology, and then a sports psychology course.
(10:38):
The exercise psych is a requirement.
And so you get every health and kinesiology major having to take exercise psychology.
And they're usually freshmen, if not kind of sophomore range.
So there's a lot, there's a lot of students.
It's kind of hard to formulate discussion.
With that many people.
And kind of a hands-on approach.
(11:00):
Yeah, because I really enjoy doing that.
And so I've tried to be creative and making it more interesting and more engaging for
that many students.
And then there's an online section of it.
And so I have to make, be even more creative with that so they can spend.
Like students attending online, is that what you're saying?
It's fun.
Or?
So one section is all online and then one section is in person and you can,
(11:23):
sure you can register for either.
Yeah.
For either method or methodology.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So tell me soccer stuff for those.
I know this is going to come out like later than where we are present day.
But where are we at with Washington Spirit?
How's the season going?
How you feeling overall?
Give us kind of what.
Yeah, season is going well.
(11:44):
We just got off our CBA break, which is really nice.
So we had a mandatory.
CBA stands for?
Bargaining agreement, so our agreement between the players and the NWSL,
which we ratified a year over a year, a little over a year ago.
(12:05):
And in that negotiations, we negotiated for a break for all players in the middle of the season.
So this is our second year of being able to actually enjoy it.
So Jeff and I went out to Wilmington, North Carolina and spent some time with
an old teammate and friend, Tori Huster.
She's living out there and just went to the beach every day
(12:26):
and enjoyed lots of good food and sunshine and sand everywhere.
What did you eat?
Tell me what you ate.
We got some really good Italian style, like Neapolitan style pizza.
So that was really good.
Yep.
(12:46):
Like wood fire burn.
Yeah.
Throwed in a classic oven.
It was amazing.
Oh, it's so good.
It comes out kind of black, the crust.
So that was really good.
That's delicious.
We also went, Italian was our theme.
We also went to this really nice Italian restaurant and we just got a bunch of like
different pasta dishes and starters and kind of shared everything and it was amazing.
(13:08):
And then of course we ate probably too much ice cream.
So.
Gelato or did you just do ice cream?
Mostly, I think it was all ice cream.
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
Yeah, we did.
You didn't continue with the Italian thing.
Yeah.
To get gelato.
There might have been one place that was gelato, I can't remember, but yeah, just ice cream.
But yeah, so it was a lot of fun and now we're back at it.
(13:29):
We have a summer cup coming up, so we have a game on Sunday and just preparing for that.
People coming back from break and getting ready for the second half of the season.
So yeah, things are going well.
And then season, that's awesome.
Season is September.
It kind of wraps up in September.
Is that right?
Or August?
(13:49):
Championship is like the week before Thanksgiving.
So we go all the way to November.
Oh, wow.
It's really far to then I thought.
That's why we needed this break.
We got to get ready for the second half of the season.
So yeah, so plenty of season ahead of us.
So yeah, we're in a good spot.
Totally.
Who's kind of top of the line?
(14:09):
Who's definitely one of the top teams?
I think we're third on the table right now.
And then you got Kansas City and Orlando, who are both sitting one and two right now,
I think.
So like I said, like I always say, like every team is good and every game is hard.
So like last season, we went all the way until like the very last day to see who made it
(14:34):
to playoffs and.
It was crazy.
They called it decision day for a good reason because it made a lot of decisions.
Yeah.
D-Day.
Yeah, so it was really good.
But yeah, things are good.
Cool.
Are we going to talk about something sports psyche or mental performance today?
(14:57):
I think so.
What should we talk about?
I know.
So audience for those of you who are watching, I think you're going to be able to talk about
those that are wondering.
Like we we try our best to find topics that are generalized that anyone and everyone can
relate to, you know, especially from a sporting context.
(15:19):
This is where the world that we're where we're coming from.
But the idea is, you know, for you to walk away going, oh, as a mother, as a business
person, as an athlete, as a coach, as a high school student, whatever, I can apply these
principles.
And so that's kind of the thought processes that Ashley and I go through when we're like,
(15:40):
OK, what topic should we choose today?
What topics we choose today?
And today we were both incorrect.
Me from wrong, Ashley.
In this headspace of.
We haven't specifically and explicitly talked about.
This idea of being able to control what you can control in the domain or the environment
(16:02):
that you find yourself in.
A lot of the times, especially in the sporting world, they call this the controlling the
controllables experience or.
Headspace or mindset or whatever you want to phrase it.
So that is kind of the theme and where we want to go today.
So what do we mean by controlling the controllables?
(16:26):
I mean, it's exactly how it sounds, essentially, right?
You in whatever domain that you find yourself in.
Are picking first, you have to become aware this is where once again, mindfulness really
comes into play.
You have to know in the environment of the domain that you find yourself in, what can
I control in this space?
(16:50):
And then you place your full effort and your concentration on those things.
Here's the.
Paradoxical thing for me and the weird and challenging thing, at least for me and how
I teach this.
Unfortunately, there's very little things in our life that we have control over.
(17:12):
And I would argue even full 100% control is very important.
Control is very unlikely.
And so I even like to throw in the word influence like what rather than control, what do you
have direct influence over that for me?
Sometimes, you know, paints this picture of acceptance, which for me is paramount.
(17:34):
We've already talked about this vital role of accepting and acknowledging the reality
of your situation.
So again.
Recognizing I can influence X, Y, Z.
That's where I'm going to be placing my focus.
Does that make sense?
So before we kind of go over, Ash, like what are some of the things that you can influence
(17:57):
or you can control?
I want to ask you, you know, especially as a soccer player.
Why in your experience is it important to place focus on things that are inside of your
realm of controllability or influence?
In competition, in training, in the whole experience.
(18:17):
I mean, I feel like the easy answer, I mean, what you kind of already said and alluded
to is there is so much outside of our control, especially in a sport like soccer where it's
not an individual sport.
You have teammates, you have coaches, you have fans, you have media and just those that
list alone.
(18:40):
There's so much that you can do.
There's so much that you can't control.
And so the more that we focus on those things, the more our attention is being taken away
from the things that we can have direct influence over and the things that we can have direct
influence over are the things that will most likely help us mentally, physically, emotionally
(19:04):
improve in our sport.
So that's my short answer for you is just there's so many things outside of our control
and our influence.
So don't waste your time.
Don't waste your time on all the other stuff.
It's a beautiful, it's a beautiful, simple answer.
Like don't waste your time because it's precious, especially if you're in a very high performing
(19:25):
environment like professional soccer.
The other answer that I often allude to, I often tell people and teach people is more
often than not, when you are experiencing debilitating anxiety or stress, especially
psychologically, you're going to this place of rumination, especially if it's after an
(19:46):
event or prior to an event, right?
Where anxiety and stress tend to set in.
And again, more often than not, we're thinking about things that we can't control.
So if it's after an event that happened, something that already happened, and maybe something
went bad, you're a goalie and you let a ball go by you and they scored one zero and you
(20:08):
lost the game.
Okay.
Okay.
Well, now you're ruminating on things that you can't do.
It's, it's past like that thing already happened.
So why are we, like you said, Ashley, wasting time ruminating, psychologically spending
time, real estate in that arena, we can't control it.
(20:29):
What we can't control is what we are doing moving forward.
And then with anxiety, like anxiety tends to creep up.
Especially psychologically when we're thinking about, and when we're thinking about something
that hasn't happened yet, and we're starting to think about again, more often than not,
things that we can't control.
(20:50):
This opponent is really fast.
This opponent has scored five goals just in the last game alone.
This team is 15 and oh, or whatever it might be.
These are things that we can't control.
But we as human beings tend again, more often than not to spend so much time in these areas
(21:10):
psychologically.
And so the huge benefit one is like Ashley was alluding to or said is, well, spend your
time wisely and don't waste your time.
And one of those things is psychologically zeroing in on things that you have direct
influence over now.
What do you have direct influence over?
(21:33):
What are these so-called controllables?
And I want to break these down and then get your take, especially from your perspective
in professional soccer, Ashley, what these actually look like.
So for the past, I don't know, six, seven years of my young professional career, I've
used this acronym APE.
I don't know who I stole it from.
We're always as professionals stealing things from other professionals.
(21:54):
So I can't credit where I'm at.
I'm sorry, but APE.
So when I go over, okay, Ashley or Fred or whoever it is I'm talking to, what do you
have direct influence over, whether it's in training or competition or anywhere else?
It's APE.
A stands for attitude.
P stands for preparation.
(22:16):
And E stands for effort.
So what does it look like?
So A essentially is your disposition.
Like are you willing to do something?
Disposition like are you going into training on a day to day basis with optimism?
Are you, do you have good energy around your teammates or are you bringing people down?
(22:37):
Do you have a positive attitude or a negative attitude?
And I know even five year olds, I have a seven year old in fact, she knows what a good attitude
is, whether it's going to church or going to school or wherever else.
So you as a human being, again, more often than not, you have direct influence on an
(22:58):
attitude.
So bringing a positive attitude to practice, to the boardroom, to relationships is in your
control.
So spend time in preparing for a good attitude.
Right now, before I go into preparation, let me ask you, Ashley, both kind of ends of the
spectrum, negative attitudes, positive attitudes.
(23:19):
What has been your experience both in training and in competition of this role of attitude
and its influence on you holistically and your teammates as well?
I mean, it has a huge influence on me and my teammates.
I would like to say that I'm a more positive and optimistic type person.
(23:43):
And so therefore, when I'm around other people, hopefully that like rubs off on them.
But as you were talking about this, I actually just looked at my journal and I have two examples
that one's a good one and one's a bad one of what I was journaling about.
Yeah.
When I was journaling about APE and one day I said yesterday I had an optimistic attitude.
(24:07):
My effort was there all day on the field and in the gym.
And then this has to do with preparation.
But I also watched film that helped me find areas where I can improve on my finishing.
So that one I started with my attitude.
I had an optimistic attitude.
I feel like that bled into my effort because I had a more positive outlook on my training
(24:30):
or just the opportunity in front of me.
And I feel like that directly bled into my effort.
And so I feel like if our attitude is in the right spot, then our effort will be going
in the right direction.
And then the bad example was actually just the next day.
I said I noticed my attitude drop for a split second during a drill.
(24:52):
I let my frustration visibly show.
Once it happened, I noticed it and fixed my attitude and had more helpful conversations
with my teammates.
So that's an example of where I feel like my attitude directly influenced my body language
and my effort.
But when I was able to recognize that my attitude was the problem, I was able to fix it and
(25:18):
then have more helpful conversations or find a solution or actually move in the right direction
instead of dwelling on mistakes.
So those are two examples for you that I just like flipped to.
Beautiful examples.
It's amazing how on both times you correlated your attitude with your behaviors and how
(25:41):
you performed.
It's amazing that connection that this from a scientific standpoint is very cognitive
behavioral.
So CBT, it's a therapy, it's a theory that essentially highlights the importance of
thoughts and its relationship with how it affects our emotions and how those emotions
and those thoughts ultimately affect our behaviors and vice versa.
(26:03):
How behaviors affect our emotions and emotions affect our thoughts.
Having a good attitude is the engine to that.
Yeah.
Right.
And so if we can have a positive attitude, and it doesn't mean people like always being
this positive person, happy person.
(26:24):
You know what I mean?
Like, you know people when they're positive air quotes and it's just not authentic.
And then like SHIT hits the fan and it goes down, right?
Because it's this facade of positivity.
That for me is this toxic type of positivity.
(26:45):
You can still be positive and not always have to smile and not always have to be telling
jokes and not always have to paint this picture of the happy person.
Right?
So and find that unique and more importantly, authentic positive attitude in yourself.
(27:06):
First, like Ashley was talking about, it starts and ends with awareness.
You need to become more aware of where your attitude is currently, where it usually goes
and what happens.
And then you can adjust microcosms and macrocosms of adjustments with your attitude from there.
But then finding the authenticity behind it is where the power comes from.
(27:28):
So then you're adjusting consistently and continuously throughout the day on finding
this positive attitude and something that you can control your spending time and something
that is worth your time, not not worth your time.
That makes sense.
(27:48):
Anyways, okay, so there's the A for attitude.
Then we got the P for preparation.
Obviously for professional athletes and coaches, this is a huge thing.
One quote that I've always used for this preparation one is, I think it's from Gary Player.
He was a professional golfer like a long time ago.
He said, the more I practice, the luckier I get.
(28:09):
That for me is preparation.
Like Peyton Manning, one of my favorite football players of all time because he's a Tennessee
Vol and he's a Denver Broncos, two teams that I absolutely love.
He was the king of preparation.
And I mean, you can share numerous examples throughout history, especially in sports,
of how preparation is key to being successful, especially long term success.
(28:36):
Those that I would argue are in the Goat Hall of Fame and whatever sport you can think of,
were kings and queens and princes and princesses of preparing and preparing religiously for
their craft.
So let me ask you, Ashley, being a professional soccer player, similar to attitude, how has
(28:58):
preparation, both good, bad, in between, played a role in your experience, individual experience
and in kind of this collective team experience as well?
Again, it plays a huge role.
I think there's so many different aspects of preparation when it comes to, especially
individual preparation, whether it's my preparation for the day, nutrition, sleep, taking care
(29:20):
of my body, taking care of my mind, preparing for a specific opponent, studying the opponent,
watching film of myself, areas that I can improve on.
Then you look at preparation when it comes to gym and activation and cool down and warm
up and all that kind of preparation.
(29:41):
There's just so much preparation, so many different aspects of the game where you do
need to prepare.
A lot of that preparation has become habitual just because it is so important.
But from a team aspect and preparing for an opponent, we have a pretty good rhythm of
what that looks like when we come in after a game.
We rewatch our game, areas where we can improve, areas that we did good.
(30:07):
What areas from that game can we then take and implement to prepare us for the next opponent,
if there are any, and then throughout the week on different days we'll study different areas
of the opponent's game and we'll implement that into our training.
So yeah, I could go on for hours probably on all the preparation that I do.
(30:28):
Right.
So let me throw a hypothetical, and maybe in your experience this isn't a hypothetical,
maybe it's actually happened.
Has there ever been a time where either your preparation has been cut short for whatever
reason, and then as a result, how do you feel afterwards, either going into training or
competition or whatever?
(30:49):
Maybe you were sick, maybe COVID happens, maybe anything.
As a result, for some reason, preparation was cut short.
What happened?
I actually have a recent example.
It's like a small example, but taking corner kicks is something that I haven't done since
like high school.
Like I am usually in the box trying to score at the ball.
(31:12):
Last year I got asked to do it several times and it was something that I practiced pretty
regularly.
But we had a game recently where when I went in, all of our roles were kind of mixed up
and a coach asked me to take the corner kicks and I was like, okay.
And I had always taken them, if you're looking at the goal, on the left side so I can take
(31:33):
it with my right foot and it'll be an end swinger.
Are you following?
Okay.
I love that term.
There you go.
New soccer term for you.
It sounds kind of weird.
It sounds kind of dirty, but keep going.
Why did you have to do that?
That's a proper term.
Okay.
(31:54):
I know.
I'm sorry.
I got in and I had to take a corner kick, but this time it had to be on the right.
And I can't remember the last time I've taken a corner kick on the right.
So do I try taking it left footed or do I take it right footed?
And could you even do it with your right?
If it was on the right side?
Is that way too awkward?
So it'll curl out instead of into the goal.
All right.
So I can take it on my right.
(32:14):
It's just the approach is different.
And most of the time if you have a lefty on your team, they'll take it from that side.
So it can be an end swinger because it's more advantageous for your team.
So anyway, I get the ball.
My thought process was not the best.
I was like, okay, what do I do?
I didn't know what to do.
I was like, I hope he calls it a short corner.
(32:37):
Sure enough, he didn't call a short corner.
I'm supposed to kick it in there and I'm like, okay, let's see how this goes.
And it was terrible.
I didn't even get it in the air.
My execution was terrible.
I know that I can do it, but I hadn't practiced it.
And I do remember that week of training, kind of thinking, oh, I should probably practice
(32:58):
this from both sides.
But I didn't because I ran out of time.
There were so many other things that I practiced and the training.
That crossed your mind before the match, before the game?
Yeah.
And I ran out of time.
And the training before, which we call match day minus one.
It's another term for you.
The training before.
(33:18):
Okay.
Yes.
Before the game.
So match day minus one training.
It's supposed to be a feel good training.
Like you're supposed to do, we play a lot of games.
We were competitive.
We touched the ball a lot.
We do a lot of shooting.
It's supposed to be a training that helps you like feel good mentally, physically, and
prepare for the game.
And usually get like 10, 15, 20 minutes at the end to do what we want.
(33:42):
A lot of times I'll practice my PKs during that time or shooting.
And that's the time to like practice free kicks, corner kicks, any set plays that you
feel like you just need a little bit extra reps on.
And I wanted to get to corners, but we ran out of time and we had to go in.
And so I was just like, whoops, like didn't have time to do it.
(34:04):
So then I had that experience in the game and I was kind of like upset with myself because
like it was an opportunity that I could have helped the team, you know, execute a little
bit better on a corner kick, but I didn't make the same mistake twice.
I, the next week I practiced it, had the exact same scenario.
I went in, got asked to take the corner kicks.
(34:25):
It was on the right side.
I was in the better head space about it.
I knew what I did wrong from the last time and I executed it well.
So there's an example for you of when my preparation wasn't as good as it could have been.
Yeah, I love it.
Wow.
Yeah.
Beautiful example again of utilizing a component of your experience that you can control to
(34:51):
make it to your advantage eventually, right?
You learned kind of the negative aspect of it and not being as prepared as you could
have been.
And then the positive and being as prepared as you possibly can.
I know we all as human beings can relate to this.
Especially my domain of academia and being a student, I remember it was like to be a
student and then going into a test, ill-prepared, unprepared.
(35:14):
Well, of course you're not going to feel good.
And of course you're most likely going to do bad, right?
In fact, I remember I had to pass math.
Yeah.
Math was not good.
Pass math. Math was never my thing.
Jeff is good.
So at least one of us in the family is good at math.
Oh, he is good.
(35:35):
Yeah.
My wife's actually pretty good at math as well.
Of course I needed to pass to move on and eventually get my degree.
And I had experienced this same horrible preparation leading like three years up to this
of not preparing for math tests and not preparing for homework and not...
(35:56):
Because I didn't like it mostly, but I became lazy with the preparation.
So finally I thought, okay, I need to change this.
And so my preparation became I need to utilize the services of this university and go get a tutor.
They had tutors for free.
(36:16):
Didn't have to do anything.
You just had to go set up an appointment.
I know.
And I said, hey, I'm taking this math class.
I need some help with this math.
I need to get a good grade.
And they gave me a tutor.
And so for the next five months, I met with this tutor in the library
three days a week, maybe two days a week.
And that one-on-one setting of him going over this math with me was a game changer.
(36:40):
And so of course I went into these tests that semester much more prepared.
And I got a B plus out of the class.
And that was huge for me because it was like Ds prior to that.
Anyways, utilizing this one, especially I would argue might be, maybe I won't even say that.
It might be the most important of the three, this attitude, preparation, and effort.
(37:02):
But I think all have a very, very important role.
Anyways, preparation people.
Okay, so here's the last one.
And we can wrap up on this topic is effort.
Again, I think something that we can all relate to, right?
Quoting some of the greats, at least in sport, something that I've loved to say
(37:25):
as it pertains to effort is Billie Jean King's, the wonderful tennis player
and advocate of women's sports in general.
She said, champions keep playing until they get it right.
So it's not that champions are always getting it right.
They are continuously failing and continuously getting better until they become champions.
(37:47):
Until they become champion after champion after champion, right?
That for me screams effort.
Knowing that failure is a part of the process, especially in a sport for me,
following softball and following baseball where failure is a part of the game.
I mean, if you're hitting three out of 10 pitches, you're considered really, really great.
(38:14):
Which is, it sounds really, really weird.
Three out of 10 sounds very good.
But in the game of baseball and softball, it's excellent.
You're batting 300 and that's an excellent batting average.
So for me, it's that, it's this kind of growth mindset orientation of knowing that effort
(38:34):
is paramount in whatever it is that you're doing so that you can get better.
If we're not putting effort into things, we're not going to get better.
And something that I've always advocated for and I've always taught is, as it pertains to effort,
is, you know, you're never going to consistently on a day-to-day basis, fill 100%.
(39:01):
Whether it's soccer or business or school or whatever it might be.
And that's okay because you're a human being.
It's like a phone battery.
Sometimes you forget to charge your battery overnight and you wake up with like 30%.
And then sometimes you leave the phone in the charger and you're at 100%.
That's the same for our activity, our physiological and psychological batteries.
We just aren't consistently always, always filling at 100%.
(39:24):
But here's the thing.
The important thing is to give 100% of whatever percentage that you have for that day.
That's effort.
Recognizing that I'm at 75% today.
I'm not feeling very well.
I only got five hours of sleep, but I'm going to give everything I can to what I have for today.
That's improvement.
That for me is success.
(39:45):
And that is effort and is something that you have direct influence over.
So similarly, Ashley, let me ask you, what has the concept of effort played?
What role has it played?
I'm going to get this question right.
In your experience of being a professional soccer player.
Similar to other two, a huge role.
(40:06):
I feel like effort is probably one of my favorite because I feel like I'm a very hardworking
type player where it's like I, when I'm putting in the effort,
I therefore have more confidence.
And therefore that confidence leads to just more success.
And effort is one thing that I feel like I always turn to if I feel like I'm not playing well,
(40:30):
or if I want to improve, or if we lost a game.
Like the first thing I want to do is go practice again or go try again.
And I feel like that is where the effort piece comes in to things that we can control.
And just even growing up, that's something that my sister and I always did.
We always put in the effort.
(40:50):
We always went in high school, we would run sprints.
We would do these PK runs every single day where we'd line up on the 18.
And one by one we'd take a PK and you'd have to, as soon as the person took it,
you'd have to run to half field and back.
And then anyone who missed it had to go again.
And if they missed it, we'd have to run there and back.
(41:11):
And my sister and I were the two annoying players that every single rep we put in the effort.
We didn't like sandbag it until the last one.
But yeah, I think effort is huge.
And when you are consistently putting in the effort, then you will continue to see improvement
and you will get to, no matter what is outside your control, you will improve as an individual
(41:37):
and as a player.
And it will also, I feel like, build your character and you'll be able to figure out
what you're capable of and you'll be able to push your limits and you'll be able to
just continue to climb.
And so effort is something that I think is just paramount when it comes to sports in general.
Yeah, I mean, I couldn't agree more.
Ditto.
It's interesting to talk about effort specifically with people or individuals that
(42:05):
don't know that threshold.
You know what I mean?
Like they haven't gone in the uncomfortable.
In whatever domain it might be, especially in a domain like sport where physically is
kind of the uncomfortable.
They haven't pushed themselves to exhaustion or where they're going to throw up or even
being in a real high pressure situation where you're having to kick a PK or having to shoot
(42:29):
the game winning free throw.
And so it's interesting to again have this conversation of, you know, self-discovery
is required so that you know where your efforts lie and how much you're actually able to give.
Because guess what? You're probably able to give a lot more than you think you are.
(42:52):
One of my favorite guys to read and to listen to, and he has a wonderful book, is David Goggins.
And he has this amazing quote.
I'm paraphrasing here that none of it's backed by evidence-based research.
So I'm coming from pop culture here, which is fine.
But he's been through so much.
He's a Navy SEAL and like a green beret and he's run a thousand like ironmans and
(43:15):
ultra marathons.
And anyways, his quote is, again, paraphrasing is,
usually as human beings, we've only given 40%.
That's the number he landed on with what we actually think we're capable of giving.
So when we think, oh my gosh, I'm exhausted.
Oh my gosh, mentally, this is way too hard.
(43:36):
It's in his mind and his theory and in his lived experiences, which is very much,
it's only 40% of what we're actually able to do.
And so it requires going in the uncomfortable.
It requires pushing the limits in a safe and respectful and reasonable way,
kind of on that day to day basis so that you can again, harness this amazing component of
(44:01):
controllability and one of them being.
I mean, I feel like your attitude and your preparation can directly influence your effort.
Like I know for me, when my attitude is right, when I have put in the preparation,
then my effort is going to be there.
It's going to increase.
I'm going to have that confidence because of my preparation and my attitude is going to drive
(44:23):
that, that body language of like, okay, I believe in myself.
I can do this.
And I feel like that corner kick example is a perfect example.
Like I was my attitude.
I, the Ashley who just totally botched the corner kick, you know, I could have dwelled on that.
I could have like, had that paralyze me, but like instead I was like, okay, my attitude is going to
(44:49):
be, I'm not going to let that happen again.
I'm going to put in the preparation and then therefore that my effort, my next effort of
doing it was, was better and improved.
And so now that is going to therefore fuel my next effort and I'm going to do it again.
I'm going to like, okay, I'm going to continue to prepare because that's what brought me success.
(45:09):
And so I think if your attitude and your preparation are in the right spot and if they're
there, then your effort will automatically benefit from both of those things.
It's amazing to see the correlation and the relationship of all three of those.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
As you just, as you just expanded upon.
So people out there get your ape on, become the, your inner ape, feed the inner ape, which is your
(45:36):
attitude and your preparation, your effort.
I promise.
And I know Ashley can attest to this.
It will make life a lot easier in whatever domain you find yourself in, especially from a
psychological and emotional level.
You won't be tied down to rumination and anxiety and stress as much.
Now you still, because you're a human being are going to experience those things, but the
(45:58):
trick is the awareness, the acceptance, and then going to those controllables, going to those
things that you can influence during training, during competition, during the meetings, during
whatever it might be, and then consistently practicing, you know, going to these so-called
tools of controllability.
Hopefully that was helpful, everybody.
(46:19):
I think so.
I think one thing that taught me is like we've, we've referenced the journal many times, but if
anyone is looking for something to actively do with this stuff that we're talking about, like
write on a piece of paper, how was my ape today attitude?
What, what did it look like?
What was my preparation?
What did that look like?
What was my effort?
(46:39):
What did that look like?
And I just feel like that increases your self-awareness.
And then the next, the next day, I feel like you'll be able to reflect on what you've written and
then you'll be able to just continue to improve. And when you look back at your week, you'll see
the progress that you've made and it's, it's very rewarding, but it's also something, an action that
you could take to actually do these things and apply them to your life.
So I just want to invite people to do that.
(47:04):
Wonderful exercise reflection.
How was your ape today?
Love it.
Wonderful way to improve.
Excellent advice.
Awesome.
Yeah.
Okay.
Well, should we wrap this up?
Our favorite part.
We don't like saying goodbye.
Bye.
Bye.
Thanks everyone.
Thanks for joining us.
Like, subscribe, comment, share your walkout song.
(47:26):
All of the above.
Yeah.
Yeah.
See that.
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