December 3, 2024 • 48 mins
In this Season #1 BONUS episode, Ashley and Matt answer a few of your listener questions! They discuss the significance of mental performance in sports, particularly in the military and competitive environments. They explore the growing acceptance of mental performance coaching, the importance of resilience, and the foundational trust necessary in coaching relationships. The conversation also includes listener questions, providing insights into the field of sports psychology and advice for aspiring professionals.
Stay tuned for weekly challenges on the Ditto Instagram (@ditto_podcast) as we enter the Ditto "off-season." As always...if you enjoyed listening, please leave a rating or review wherever you are listening.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
As a girl dad of three daughters, how can I help them to develop resiliency to deal with the stresses and challenges of competitive sports?
(00:07):
And she asks you, Matt, what advice would you give to someone starting out in the field?
Actually, why do you wear number 33? That was my soccer number.
Ash, from an athlete's perspective, what is something helpful Matt has done to gain your trust and confidence?
So you'll listen to his advice. Oh boy. Hello everyone and welcome to our bonus episode of Ditto.
(00:38):
We have our Q&A today with Matt. Matt, how are you doing?
Actually, I'm doing pretty good. I'm sorry if you hear sniffles and coughing, I'm battling allergies right now this wonderful time of year.
But other than that, doing really well. Actually, I'm on fall break from the University of Utah.
(00:59):
So I have this entire week off that we're recording. It's like the seventh through the twelfth or something like that.
Thirteenth. Anyways, so doing extra good because I have time to just catch up and chill.
What about you? How are you Ash? I'm glad you're on a fall break. I'm not.
But I'm doing good and enjoying the fall weather. So that's great.
(01:23):
We've got a couple more games left in the season and then we got playoffs. So exciting times ahead.
Playoffs are in November or are they more October?
November. Yep. First week of November.
Okay, cool. And fall weather in DC, is that like instead of it being 95, like it's 85?
(01:48):
Or what's fall weather? No, it was actually like 60s, 70s.
Oh, sweet. Yeah, and we'll have some hot days pop up here and there.
But yeah, like right now, like the high this week is like 78 and it's in the 60s. So like 60s, 70s.
It's warmer in Utah right now than it is in DC.
(02:11):
Yeah. Okay, should we start with a question? Here we go.
Yes, question time.
Bonus episode. Question number one is coming to you from Tom.
Tom is from Utah and he has a pretty long but good question.
That's a two part question. So we'll start off with the first part, which is for you.
(02:33):
And he says, the other week, your guest, John Edwards, alludes to the fact that some members of the military were skeptical or unenthusiastic about taking mental performance training.
Matt, do you feel like there's a stigma surrounding this field?
Are there a lot of people who don't think this aspect of performance is important or feel like they don't need help with it?
(02:57):
Is this perception, is the perception around this shifting?
Matt, what are your thoughts?
All fantastic questions. And if I break up, let me know.
Or should I do the fake out where I'm like, actually.
No, you're good.
Yeah. So the answer to all that is yes, yes, yes, because there's a few questions in there.
(03:22):
Definitely a stigma surrounding this field in the military, at least in my experience.
And I was more specifically embedded with the U.S. Army, but I saw this with the U.S. Air Force a little bit as well.
And I have colleagues who are all over the military branches that do this.
And yes, yes, yes, there still is a stigma.
I'm not sure, honestly, if that stigma ever is going to be like 100 percent destigmatized.
(03:50):
I think there's always going to be skepticism around psychology, around mental performance, around counseling, just because I mean for a number of reasons.
But in my humble opinion, you know, measuring, quote unquote, success with mental performance is really hard to explicitly do.
(04:12):
And to see that this person advanced from here to here, you can do that on some level,
but it's until the advancement of technology and everything else really comes into play.
It's hard to do that. And so in my opinion, that's one of the main reasons why I think stigma is going to continue to to be around.
Do you think a lot of people is important?
(04:34):
I think most in the military, one hundred percent thinks that this is an important aspect of their performance.
I would say. I hate to put a percentage on it, but here we go.
Ninety percent plus that I have encountered in the military space agree that training the mind is vitally important.
(05:00):
It was more of the kind of old school mentality, not necessarily older people,
but just old school mentality that believe that you don't need to you know, you're either mentally tough or you're not or you're mentally flexible or you're not.
And so those individuals that understand the importance of that is in the majority, one hundred percent, I would think.
(05:25):
And I would say in my experience. And then I also believe the last part of the question is the perception around this shifting.
Yes. In fact, so being a professor at the University of Utah.
I get to meet a lot of wonderful students and talking about exercise, psychology, sports, psychology, et cetera.
(05:49):
I had a military vet come up to me after class.
I didn't know he was in the military, but he's an army ranger.
So he was in the in the army for I think it was six years and he was a ranger, did like two deployments.
And he came up to me afterwards, like, I want to talk to you about your career and talk about what you do, especially when you were in the army.
(06:09):
So we chatted for like an hour and a half in my office and the overarching theme from this gentleman was,
gosh, I wish I would have received that training when I was in the military for some reason.
Don't know why his particular unit, his particular experience didn't receive a lot of this resilience training or mental performance training.
(06:34):
But he was very adamant about I wish 100 percent I would have received this training.
It would have made my experience that much better.
Now, that was one elite military guy.
Right. But I've had similar conversations with those that have received it and have told me what a difference it truly makes.
(06:57):
In their physical performance, going through obstacle courses, going through using their weapons to shoot rifles and targets,
they can see kind of a difference quantitatively in integrating some of this stuff.
But a lot of it is subjective and them letting us know as a team in the mental performance realm just how much better they feel prepared,
(07:21):
how much better they feel in terms of overcoming the adversity that's inevitable and especially in a space like the military.
So yes, yes, yes.
And I'm hoping the perspective can continue to shift and can continue to be as accepted as possible within this particular space, all spaces, but especially the military.
(07:42):
So, yeah, definitely. That's my long winded answer.
Nice. Yeah, that's a good answer.
No, I think that was really good.
He then continues on in the second half of his question.
Yeah. Do you want me to read it?
And sure, go ahead.
OK, so we're continuing with the great Tom from the great state of Utah.
(08:02):
This is the second part of this one question, which is so great.
Ashley, do many of your teammates have mental performance coaches and or experts that they work with, or are you in the minority?
And then he continues. Is there a greater emphasis on mental performance in women's sports than in men's sports?
Or are there certain sports where the athletes seem to put a greater emphasis on it?
(08:29):
So a couple of questions in there.
Yeah, those are all great questions.
I'll do my best to answer all of them succinctly so we can get to all the other questions.
But yes, I would say from the beginning of my career to where I'm at now,
there are definitely more and more of my teammates who are seeking mental performance coaches or experts on their own.
(08:54):
But like we've said and talked about in previous episodes, the teams in this league are now required and are all noticing that it makes a big difference for their athletes to have this type of mental performance support from coaches.
And they're required to have a mental performance coach with them.
So we have a full time mental performance coach at the Spirit, which I think is great because it gives athletes the opportunity to just get introduced to working with a mental performance coach and just start figuring out that side of their game.
(09:26):
I think you have athletes who come to a roadblock in their game like me and they're like, OK, I need this.
And they figure that out on their own.
Or you have athletes that are don't really understand the full importance of it yet.
But then they're introduced to it and they see that I can continue to help improve their game.
Everyone's path and journey is different.
But I feel like the conversation around help with your mental side of your game is growing.
(09:54):
I can't really speak to the difference between men's and women's sports, mostly because I'm with the women's side of the game.
But I do think it's growing on both sides, which I think is really important.
I think there's different stigmas for both sides with men's soccer or women's soccer and vice versa.
But I think the overarching message is that it's growing for both.
(10:18):
I think both groups of people understand that it's really important.
And then are there certain sports where athletes seem to put greater emphasis on it?
I mean, I think you're just you see it from different athletes.
I think individual sports are very different.
I think the mental side of your game is, I don't want to say more important, but maybe more clear because it's just you.
(10:46):
When you're with a team, there's so many more variables.
You have a coach that's deciding if you play or you don't play.
You have other teammates.
There's just so many other variables, which is also maybe another reason why mental performance training and coaching is even more important.
So I just feel like the dynamic is different with individual sports versus team sports.
(11:10):
But I would say that the importance for mental performance training and coaching is just as important.
Did I did I get all of them?
I think you did on that one.
OK, nice. Yeah.
Can I can I add just a tiny bit to the last part of that question?
Sure.
(11:30):
Just generally in the field of sports psychology, I would say, you know,
sports psychology, again, in general, is accepted in every sport.
Now, in terms of deliberately and explicitly hiring mental performance coaches.
Baseball, in my experience, seems to be the most on board.
I mean, they have teams of mental performance coaches for their clubs.
(11:53):
Now, granted, you know, one Major League Baseball team has, I don't know, five farm team clubs throughout the country,
throughout the world sometimes and Dominican Republic and in some other places.
But nonetheless, in terms of like who's the number one employer for mental performance coaches in all of sports,
(12:14):
objectively, it would have to be baseball, in my experience, just because, again, they hire so many for so many of their ball players.
But that's not to say that soccer and football and basketball and softball don't.
It's just right now, Major League Baseball seems to be objectively the most on board with hiring these as full time coaches.
(12:36):
So, anyway. Nice.
Yeah. And I also think it has it's just access to resources, a.k.a. funding.
I feel like baseball is one of those sports that does have a lot of funding, which is which is great.
And so they're able to access those resources for their athletes.
But I think as teams in a sport see that the the value and the importance of mental performance coaches,
(12:59):
I think we're definitely going to see a lot more sports and teams getting on board because it is really important.
But, yeah, thanks for adding that. I could see why baseball is so important,
just the way that the sport is for mental performance coaching.
OK, let's go to our next question. This is for you, Matt.
(13:21):
Sally from Ohio, she says that she's she's in college for sports psychology.
And she asks you, Matt, what advice would you give to someone starting out in the field?
Yeah. Oh, and yeah, there's a question for you. OK.
Well, first, Sally, I'm going to challenge you to make sports singular sport psychology.
(13:50):
It's a very, very common mistake. So no worries at all, Sally.
I think a lot of people are calling this sports psychology.
But from the get go, you know, we're starting out in this field.
Let's let's make that singular. Let's let's start calling it sports psychology.
That's that's important for me.
I didn't know that. So thanks for sharing that with me, too.
I think I say sports psychology all the time.
(14:12):
Well, a lot of a lot of people do. But the correct the correct way I get.
Yeah, it's the singular sport psychology.
OK, now, all kidding aside, what advice would you give someone starting out in the field?
Oh, boy. I get calls quite often and emails quite often from kind of younger or not necessarily
(14:34):
or objectively younger, just individuals getting coming out in this field.
And my my first question is always, what do you want to do?
Because there's a number of different ways that you can go within this field.
Do you want to go into academics and teach like myself?
Do you want to which is generally where a lot of people want to go?
Do you want to go into professional or college sports and work with with athletes and coaches?
(14:57):
Again, that's generally where most people want to go.
Or do you want to go work in the military space or do you want to open up your own business?
Or do you want to be a counselor or a licensed psychologist and then do some sport
and performance psychology consulting kind of mingled in?
So first, I think, Sally, it would be important to answer that question.
What do you want to do within this field?
(15:19):
Now, if you're in the majority and you want to work with athletes and coaches from youth to professional.
Here's where I've been really adamant lately.
I think it's really, really important to get a mental health piece first and foremost as your foundation
and then supplement that with sport and performance psychology training,
(15:43):
like getting the CMPC, Certified Mental Performance Consultant Certification.
The reason I say that is objectively colleges and professional organizations, for the most part,
are hiring first and foremost mental health professionals.
So they're psychologists, they're counselors, et cetera.
(16:04):
Then kind of supplemental to that, it's OK, do you have sport and performance psychology training
in addition to your mental health training?
That's where professionals, that's where clubs, athletic departments and professional organizations are going.
That's why I always tell individuals coming up in this field, I wish I would have gotten a master's degree
(16:28):
in clinical mental health counseling and then supplemented that with my Ph.D.
in sport and performance psychology because and I love being in academics
and I will probably always be in academia.
But I can't apply to any job under the sun when it comes to sports psychology because there's,
for the most part, especially with college athletic departments and professional organizations,
(16:54):
a lot of them are now requiring this licensure of being a mental health therapist of some sorts.
And I don't have that.
Now, I do have a CMPC, which part of the certification requires one to take counseling
and psychology type of courses at a graduate level, which helps.
And so I always tell people I'm able to spot the red flags when it comes to more serious mental health issues.
(17:22):
That's kind of where my training is.
But I am not trained both ethically and competently to address and diagnose and prognose mental health concerns.
So that is kind of my drawback, at least with my training.
So I tell kids all the time again, not kids, but just individuals coming up on this field.
If you want to work with athletes and coaches, and usually it's at the college level and above,
(17:48):
they're now requiring, for the most part, that you receive first and foremost that mental health piece
and then supplement it with something like the certification of being a mental performance consultant.
So hopefully that answers the questions.
Yeah. Second part of this, Ash, is for you.
You ready? Yeah, let's hear it.
(18:08):
I'm going to read it. OK, here we go.
Oh, and she called you Ash. I love that she shortened it.
Ash, from an athlete's perspective, what is something helpful?
Oh, Matt has done to gain you on the spot.
I know. Go. Here we go.
OK, Ash, from an athlete's perspective, what is something helpful Matt has done to gain your trust and confidence?
(18:31):
So you'll listen to his advice.
Oh, boy. Here we go.
Dun, dun, dun.
No, I love this question.
I think it's really important, especially when you're trying to find someone, a mental performance coach,
to help you with your mental performance journey in your field, in your sport, in whatever it is that you're doing.
(18:55):
I think having that initial trust is really, really important because you know, Matt,
like we have to share a lot of vulnerable things and we have to be open and honest about our thoughts and our feelings
and our struggles and the things that we're going through.
So having that initial trust and confidence and building that foundation is, first and foremost,
(19:17):
probably the most important key to having a good relationship with a mental performance coach.
And I think that that's why I was so excited to work with you, because we had that foundation from the very beginning.
I think we initially met when you were coming out and visiting Jeff,
and I just knew that you were one of Jeff's cousins and you came to a game and I didn't know what you did.
(19:40):
But we had, you know, that's the first time that we met and we just had a normal, like,
friendship foundation from you being Jeff's cousin and then learning more about what you did.
And then at that time in my life, I was talking to Jeff about probably needing to just invest more in the mental side of my game.
And you were just forefront of mind because you had just visited.
(20:03):
And so I feel like that that is why we were able to start off on such a strong foot.
But then also just the way that you're able to listen, I think that is really, really important.
I didn't ever feel like when we started working together, you were trying to, like,
force me to do some curriculum or like this this theory is going to help change your life.
(20:29):
It was like, no, like you listened, you understood, you did your best to try and understand my world.
And I think that built a lot of trust.
And I would say to specifically answer Sally's question of what is something
Matt has done or something that you have taught me is definitely I know we talk about it a lot,
(20:50):
but it's so important is just this aspect of self-awareness.
I feel like I'm a completely different person from when we first started to where I am now because of this tool and this skill of self-awareness that you've taught me.
And I feel like it's something that we always come back to no matter what I'm dealing with.
(21:13):
So, yeah, I would say trust, confidence and then self-awareness is something that you've taught me.
And you're just an overall great person.
So, I mean, I feel like that that definitely helps.
But yeah, those are a few things that I would say Matt has done to help gain my trust and confidence.
Well, you're too nice, actually. It's just the truth.
(21:36):
Well, thanks, Golly.
Now I'm blush and red and embarrassed to expound on that experience.
I think it would be interesting to note what does the process of working with someone like myself from your perspective look like?
I mean, is it for the first year you have to meet every week or for the first six months, every other.
(21:59):
And then it's like it tailors off into just needs by needs basis for you.
What has that look like and what has been the best kind of M.O. so to speak in working with these type of coaches like myself?
Yeah, definitely. I think we should count this as Amy from Tennessee's question.
I was just going to say, I think Amy asked that question.
(22:20):
So let's take that. We'll just take that off.
But yes. So for our, I guess, relationship specifically, like it first started with just like general introduction.
I think you sent me like a little worksheet of like, OK, like, what are your goals?
Like, what do you what are you wanting to get out of this?
(22:42):
And I had a few questions on there. And I think our first session, we kind of went over those questions and answers and we just talked about it.
Like what what I'm wanting out of this relationship, what areas of my skills am I wanting to improve?
And so we just initially talked about that. And I think we started on a few things that I was struggling with the time.
(23:05):
I think I had a difficult coach at the time. And so we kind of worked through a few of those things.
So I think we met probably like once a week.
But as time went on and as I continued to kind of learn the things that you're teaching me and learn how to like.
To meditate and to journal and to use all these skills that you're teaching me, like I feel like we didn't need to meet as often.
(23:31):
So then it kind of turned into maybe like once a month or if something another challenge arose, I felt like I needed to talk to you about.
Then we would, you know, get on back a cadence of meeting once a week.
So it was kind of like whatever I needed. And also, like as I graduated in my mental performance journey,
I feel like we didn't need to meet as often, but I feel like you're always good to like check in with a text message or motivational quote here and there.
(24:02):
So, yeah, I feel like it's kind of evolved. It's right now it's a needs by needs basis,
but it definitely started off on more of a cadence of once a week.
And I think that's what's so great about like meeting a mental performance coach is like it's individual.
Your training and your curriculum is very specific to you and what you what you want and what your needs are.
(24:28):
And that's something that like Matt and I have figured out together and that has done a really good job of that.
So I guess that's my answer from my perspective to that question. Do you have anything else to add?
No, I think well, just a little, but I think that was beautifully articulated.
Now, if we're going to the literature within sports psychology, which here we go, right.
(24:51):
But on the professor cap, they use this word self-regulation.
So from a mental performance standpoint, quote unquote, you're like done or you're kind of you.
You've helped them to the best that you can when they reach this level of self-regulation.
So, like you said, I mean, you alluded to it once I felt comfortable meditating,
(25:14):
once I felt comfortable journaling, and once I felt comfortable on my own integrating and applying some of these concepts.
It was almost like, OK, hands are clean.
I'm going to move on to the next one now as a mental performance coach.
That's not my perspective. I like any other kind of development in life.
(25:34):
I don't think you're ever fully there as an individual.
Now, one hundred percent, you can reach a more regulatory state. Absolutely.
But you're never truly done training the mind.
There's always something that's going to come up that you need to address and you need to become more self-aware.
(25:55):
And you need to reintegrate some of the things that you did three years ago that you've kind of forgotten about.
You forgot about. Right. So for me, yes, self-regulation is a huge portion of it,
but it's also regularly checking in even if you feel like and they feel like self-regulation has been achieved.
(26:16):
And so for me and you, Ashley, I mean, again, we've been as most people know, we've been going at it for five years,
working together for almost five years ish. I think it is like almost exactly five years.
November 2019, I believe, was the first time we like started.
So five years we've been saying five years. I think it is exactly five years next month.
(26:38):
Anyways, nice. They make you start saying six years.
I know. Right. Heading into six. Yeah.
At first, it was once a week and then it was every other and then it was once a month.
But then like the last year, for the most part, it's been check ins like me sending you a text.
How are things? Here's a quote. Here's a thought.
(27:00):
And then you say, hey, I would love to chat. It's been three months. It's been two months.
I think there's some things that I need to get off my chest.
I think there's some things that we need to revisit.
So that needs by needs basis for me is really important, even though I would argue you've definitely achieved this kind of self regulatory state, if that makes sense.
(27:21):
It's just so fluid because you're going to have one obstacle and one challenge that's going to be so different from another obstacle and another challenge.
And so it's going to require a different flexibility psychologically.
And sometimes that requires a new set of eyes, a new perspective.
And that's where mental performance coaches, I think, will always come into play and always, quote unquote, have a job because of the inevitable fluidity of challenges and setbacks that will occur regardless of your situation.
(27:53):
So hopefully that makes sense. Yeah, totally. No, that's great.
It's a good question. All right, let's let's try and pound out some of these questions so you get to a few more.
I need to be more concise in the way I respond.
No, no, no. We love we love the in-depthness of your questions.
But I think some of these we can like, for example, I can answer this one from Anna from Colorado.
(28:19):
Actually, why do you wear number 33? That was my soccer number growing up because someone else took number three, so I chose number 33.
Honestly, and I have pretty much the same story as you, except for my soccer number was six growing up and then someone took it and three plus three is six.
So that is why I am number 33.
(28:42):
What's what's six? Why? I mean, is there a significant?
Yeah, well, I there's just six members in my family growing up.
And so when it came time to choose a number and that was available, that's the meaning that I put behind it.
And so I really liked the number six.
And then I was really upset when it got taken when I switched teams.
(29:05):
And so I was like, I don't want it to be ever taken again.
So I was like, no one's going to want number 33. Let's do it.
So, yeah, that's like when you celebrate, like put two threes up.
Yeah. For like six or I don't know, like somehow.
Or maybe you do like a like a six with your hand.
(29:25):
Maybe there's something cool that you could do after you celebrate.
And it could be like you play a game. That's not a bad idea.
And you see little girls around the country going, hmm, or like putting up a six.
That's not a bad idea. I'll definitely have to brainstorm some ideas around that.
But yeah, that's that's a good question. Cool.
All right. What other ones do we have? Let's see.
(29:46):
What about this one, Matt? I know that you have podcasts that you like to listen to.
This is from Fred from Idaho.
What podcasts are you both listening to or what are your listening recommendations, books, podcasts, et cetera?
Yeah. Yeah. So.
One of my if we're going like specifically sports psychology, we had Pete Olusaga on our last episode.
(30:13):
He has a podcast called 80 Percent Mental.
Phenomenal podcast. He I know I'm biased, but he comes from this researcher, really understands the literature of sports psychology.
And then he brings on these guests that are like minded when it comes to literature and research,
but also from a very applicable kind of real world application standpoint as well from a sports psychology lens.
(30:36):
So I highly recommend 80 percent mental if sports psychology is the realm you want to go in.
And then I don't know why I just thought of this, actually, but I'm going to suggest it.
OK, I like to kind of divvy things up and go outside of my realm of, quote unquote,
expertise and see if there's other things that I can learn from other domains. And so I love nature and I love the wild.
(31:03):
And so, in fact, there's a podcast called The Wild and it's this podcast of this gentleman traveling the world and learning about
jaguars, learning about bears, learning about magpies like there's it's so random, but like you can hear him walking through the forest.
(31:26):
Like he has he has these microphones on as he's going.
And then you can hear like the crackling of fire in the background.
And then he goes on these adventures of uncovering and unpacking what all these different creatures and geographical locations are all like.
I think it's fascinating and we can learn a whole bunch from nature and from the wild.
And again, it's called The Wild and I think it's what Chris Morgan is his name.
(31:51):
And then I have one more kind of book recommendation because he he just said book.
I just I love all kinds of books, but this is just kind of, you know, recency bias.
This is what I'm reading right now. And it's called Same As Ever.
(32:12):
And the subtitle is a guide to what never changes. It's like kind of a weird title.
It's really good because it dives into things that we should, but not always be learning from the past.
Like, I think we always as as creatures, human creatures, as human beings, we want to like reinvent the wheel.
(32:38):
We want to learn from the past and do things differently. We want to be better.
We want to improve and grow, which is great and fantastic.
But there's also so much that we can learn from the past that we're continually doing and not doing a better job at.
And so he this his name is Morgan Housel.
I think it's how you say his last name. He's and I'm only like a quarter of the way in.
(33:02):
But so far, it's a phenomenal book. He just goes over that it's like these timeless lessons about whether it's money or life or storytelling and ambition and satisfaction and how we can learn from all of these different experiences of history.
Because that's the way they did it. And this is the way it's going to continue to be.
(33:24):
So we need to embrace it and continue to to learn from it.
Anyways, that's the recommendation book wise that I have for everybody.
Those are good. That's a good one.
My recommendations. I have been enjoying the Heberman Lab podcast.
Just I just love learning a lot.
(33:46):
And I feel like he does a really good job of articulating like really complicated things so that I can understand them.
But he recently had an episode. I'm trying to find it.
I can't find it right now. Oh, with Stacey Sims, a female specific.
(34:06):
She's like a female health expert kind of.
And she just goes over like specific exercises and nutrition for health for women of all ages.
And something that's like very interesting that I learned, which I feel like is like duh.
But I didn't really didn't really click until she talked about it, is the difference between men and women and the different like so quote unquote diets that are out there.
(34:34):
So she talked about like fasting and how it's not as beneficial for women as it is for men.
And it's kind of funny because Jeff and I will argue is a strong word, but we disagree a lot in some of each other's like eating habits.
And like I cannot go work out or start my day off unless I have breakfast because I just like I can't do it.
(34:58):
But Jeff can like wake up, drink a glass of water and then like go run or go work out or do whatever.
And I'm just like, you're crazy. That's so unhealthy for you.
Like, what are you doing? But she did a really good job of articulating that like that's OK for men, but not as OK for women.
And these are the reasons why. And so anyway, I think that his the guests that he has on are great.
I think he has a really good job of just helping me learn a lot of really cool, fun, new things.
(35:23):
His episodes are really long, so I usually have to break it up or I listen to it on my way to training.
And then a book that I recently not recently, but it was early this year, Kill a Unicorn by Emma Hayes is really, really good.
She reads it. I listen to it in audible and it's her voice.
But she has a really cool perspective and just a lot of her stories from her coaching experiences and the lessons that she's learned.
(35:51):
I really enjoyed. So there's a two women's national team. Yes.
Yeah. Yeah. So that's those are two pretty good recommendations that I would have.
But thanks. Thanks, Fred, from Idaho for the question.
Hey, you want to hear something really random? So this honestly, I think this is one of the best.
(36:15):
Compliments I have received a student came up to me last week after class, and he goes, Dr. Moore, have you heard of Andrew Huberman?
And I'm like, 100 percent I have. And he goes, you remind me of him.
Oh, my gosh. That's a good comment. Yes.
(36:37):
And I like my smile from ear to ear.
And I go, if I can even be like a quarter, a fraction of a superman, that's my goal in life professionally.
So thank you. You just made my year. Not only my day, but.
Yeah, that's awesome. That's a good compliment.
And I think it's because I have a beard and I had a black shirt on that day and Andrew always wears black shirts.
(36:59):
And so like even appearance wise, I was putting off Andrew Huberman vibes.
Maybe that's who you should be for Halloween. I should.
I'm just kidding. That's cool. That's a good compliment.
All right. You want to do one more, two more? How many you want to do?
(37:22):
We can do a couple more. Let's just try and be again, more concise, succinct about it.
Yeah, let's see. I don't know how bad I was at this until we started.
This is a fun one. Susan from Maryland.
Does the humidity bother you when playing, especially since you don't really get water breaks?
(37:42):
Yes, I hate the humidity. It makes my job a lot more difficult.
But since moving out to the East Coast, I am definitely more acclimated to the humidity.
But yes, short answer. Yes, it does bother me. I hate it.
That's hilarious. Can I do a funny one from Jerry from California?
(38:03):
Yeah, let's do it.
Matt, do your colleagues think you're cool for having this podcast or do they just think you should spend more time publishing?
Yeah, great question, Jerry.
So I don't think any of my colleagues at the University of Utah actually realize I have a podcast.
Now, other colleagues within the sports psychology field, I think, do understand that.
(38:28):
And I think they think it's cool. I don't really know.
They better answer. I know. Answer your publishing question.
Fortunately, my main responsibility at the University of Utah is to teach.
So publishing for me is not, quote unquote, like a part of my responsibilities at the university.
(38:48):
Now, that's not to say I'm not doing research and not publishing, but it's not something I, quote unquote,
have to be doing as a professor at the University of Utah.
So great question, Jerry.
Good question. We have two questions about from dads.
(39:11):
About teaching girls to develop resiliency and to deal with stresses and challenges of competitive sports.
This is a good one. I feel like we could both answer this, but I think you should start.
(39:35):
OK, do we want to read the question or do we want to just kind of take it?
Yeah, for sure. As a girl dad of three daughters, this is from Ken from Utah.
How can I help them to develop resiliency to deal with the stresses and challenges of competitive sports?
That is a great question. And in fact, Ash and I will most likely do an entire episode on this,
(39:58):
I think just because it's such a influential, profound skill set to have being a resilient individual.
And I say this, I think on every episode, I love resiliency and I love the science behind it.
And I love telling individuals that I work with or that I'm around that I want to help them become a more resilient person,
(40:22):
just because I believe it bleeds into everything else and just enhances everything else around you,
whether that's your inner experience or outer experience.
So again, I think we're going to do an entire episode on this,
but I want to invite you dads to go read Tomorrow Mind by Rosen Kellerman.
(40:47):
Rosen Dash or Hyphen Kellerman is the first one. Gabriella Rosen Kellerman, that's her full name.
And then Martin Seligman, he's the positive psychology guy.
There's a lot of stuff in there that's fantastic, directly or indirectly touching on resiliency.
(41:08):
But one thing in particular, one section, it's probably even a few chapters within that book,
is they go over these five drivers of resiliency.
And again, I think we're going to do an entire episode on all of these,
or maybe we do like one episode with one driver, one episode with the second driver, third driver, et cetera.
Here are their drivers, cognitive agility, emotional regulation, self-compassion, optimism and self-efficacy.
(41:37):
Now, again, we could unpack those from so many different angles.
And here we go. I'm not being concise again.
So sorry about that.
But for you girl dads, I'm imagining they're right like junior high, high school girls,
like pick one of those and start to help that girl, your daughter develop that.
I would think at that age that self-compassion is a huge one.
(42:03):
Help them be more accepting of who they are, help them be more compassionate for their flaws,
and help them develop a better relationship with failure in soccer or softball or basketball or academics or relationships or whatever else.
That's going to 100% directly influence their resiliency.
(42:24):
Sorry. Once again, long winded answer.
No, it was great.
I feel like it's hard to answer this one succinctly because it is such a good question and resiliency is such a great topic.
And I think we should do another episode on it for sure.
But I think the last part about what you said is really important from my perspective when I look back on my career and I think about all the challenges that I had to overcome from junior high, middle school, all the way up till now in my career.
(42:56):
Every time I look back, it doesn't really matter what the challenge was, but it was my reaction to that challenge and also not letting that challenge define me.
And also realizing that this challenge is just a moment in time and one day I'll be able to look back on this challenge and what am I going to learn from it?
And I think that's the most important thing you can help your daughters learn is like no matter what the challenge is, what's going to be my reaction and how do I want what type of person, what type of athlete do I want to be?
(43:30):
And I know especially from like when you're in youth soccer and you get all these different perspectives and you need to do this and you need to do this and you need to do this.
If you want to become this, it can be overwhelming and any challenge or setback can feel like the end of the world.
But I'm here to tell you, I promise you it's not. So helping your daughters see and realize that perspective for themself is just going to set them up for success in life, not just in their sport.
(44:03):
And it's really hard and it's something that I feel like we all have to learn and practice over and over and over.
But the more you do it, the better at resiliency, the better you'll get when challenges do come your way.
So, yeah, I would just add to what Matt said, just help them.
(44:24):
What was the word that you use? Self? Self-compassion?
Yes, self-compassion.
And I think help them develop that skill is is really what it's going to take to help them through anything.
And they're going to be able to take that with them once they leave your home. So, yes, that's my not so succinct answer.
But we should definitely talk about this more.
(44:46):
I know I need to I need to share a quick story about you and maybe we can end on this.
Ashley is like. The prime example of this, in my opinion, she's she's developed this resilient emotional and psychological frame of life.
(45:07):
In fact, I remember talking to a young mother with two young soccer players.
This was like last year, I think.
And she found out that I was working that we were working together and she comes up and she goes,
my daughter, one made the net like the travel team or the some AAU team or whatever.
(45:30):
And then one didn't. And they were like a year apart.
And the one that did it was devastated.
But then she goes, but then she read Ashley's story about not making the women's national team and how much she's learned and grown from that experience and how much she's continuing to develop and find success.
And she goes. And then I realized we all have these Ashley moments that we need to learn from.
(45:55):
And my daughter in that moment was so inspired by her Ashley moment that she's now thriving and getting better and learning from this devastating devastating experience.
I'm like, boom, resiliency. There you go.
Prime example of what it's like to actually look look at its face right in the real world and integrate its principles.
(46:17):
So, yeah. Oh, that was so cool.
Thanks for sharing. That was sweet. Yeah.
Yeah. OK, I had to add one more thing, though, from what you said.
I think I think I'm not a parent and I hope to be one day.
But I'm sure you can relate to this being a parent.
But like when you see your child going through something difficult, you really just want to like protect them and you want to like put them in a bubble and you want to be like, it's OK.
(46:46):
Like, and just make them feel better.
But I think allowing them to have that space to realize like this sucks, like this isn't fun.
I hate this. But then helping them.
OK, like, what do you want to do about it?
Don't try and remove the pain as much as you want to, because like feeling that pain is is really important.
(47:07):
And that's going to help you in the next stage of your life and the next problem that you have to solve.
So like help them navigate that pain, but don't try and remove that pain.
I think that's also really, really important.
And it's so hard to do. I'm sure we could have Jeff on here and he could talk about that with me because I know he would do anything to like remove that pain for me sometimes.
(47:30):
But navigating it together and recognizing it and letting it help you learn.
And then, like you said, then thrive is like it's really key to being able to thrive in a situation that's not most ideal.
So anyway, that's that's the last thing I'll say about that.
I love it. I know this this is an episode that or two or three that we need to.
(47:54):
Really unpack here in the next season, so stay tuned, everybody.
Yes. Awesome. Well, thank you, everyone, for your questions.
Appreciate it. This was fun. We'll have to do this again for season two.
Season two is going to be bigger and better than ever. Right, Matt?
We are learning. So we're hoping it's going to be just that much better.
(48:17):
So, yes. So thank you, everyone. Excited.
Yes. In the meantime, follow, like, listen to episodes that you haven't listened to.
We love your feedback. Subscribe and also follow us on Instagram, the Ditto podcast on Instagram.
We continue to post quotes, videos from previous episodes from our guests.
(48:41):
So we'll still be active there. So make sure you give us give us a follow.
Awesome. Until next time, everybody.
See you soon. Adios.
As a girl dad of three daughters, how can I help them to develop resiliency to deal with the stresses and challenges of competitive sports?
(00:07):
And she asks you, Matt, what advice would you give to someone starting out in the field?
Actually, why do you wear number 33? That was my soccer number.
Ash, from an athlete's perspective, what is something helpful Matt has done to gain your trust and confidence?
So you'll listen to his advice. Oh boy. Hello everyone and welcome to our bonus episode of Ditto.
(00:38):
We have our Q&A today with Matt. Matt, how are you doing?
Actually, I'm doing pretty good. I'm sorry if you hear sniffles and coughing, I'm battling allergies right now this wonderful time of year.
But other than that, doing really well. Actually, I'm on fall break from the University of Utah.
(00:59):
So I have this entire week off that we're recording. It's like the seventh through the twelfth or something like that.
Thirteenth. Anyways, so doing extra good because I have time to just catch up and chill.
What about you? How are you Ash? I'm glad you're on a fall break. I'm not.
But I'm doing good and enjoying the fall weather. So that's great.
(01:23):
We've got a couple more games left in the season and then we got playoffs. So exciting times ahead.
Playoffs are in November or are they more October?
November. Yep. First week of November.
Okay, cool. And fall weather in DC, is that like instead of it being 95, like it's 85?
(01:48):
Or what's fall weather? No, it was actually like 60s, 70s.
Oh, sweet. Yeah, and we'll have some hot days pop up here and there.
But yeah, like right now, like the high this week is like 78 and it's in the 60s. So like 60s, 70s.
It's warmer in Utah right now than it is in DC.
(02:11):
Yeah. Okay, should we start with a question? Here we go.
Yes, question time.
Bonus episode. Question number one is coming to you from Tom.
Tom is from Utah and he has a pretty long but good question.
That's a two part question. So we'll start off with the first part, which is for you.
(02:33):
And he says, the other week, your guest, John Edwards, alludes to the fact that some members of the military were skeptical or unenthusiastic about taking mental performance training.
Matt, do you feel like there's a stigma surrounding this field?
Are there a lot of people who don't think this aspect of performance is important or feel like they don't need help with it?
(02:57):
Is this perception, is the perception around this shifting?
Matt, what are your thoughts?
All fantastic questions. And if I break up, let me know.
Or should I do the fake out where I'm like, actually.
No, you're good.
Yeah. So the answer to all that is yes, yes, yes, because there's a few questions in there.
(03:22):
Definitely a stigma surrounding this field in the military, at least in my experience.
And I was more specifically embedded with the U.S. Army, but I saw this with the U.S. Air Force a little bit as well.
And I have colleagues who are all over the military branches that do this.
And yes, yes, yes, there still is a stigma.
I'm not sure, honestly, if that stigma ever is going to be like 100 percent destigmatized.
(03:50):
I think there's always going to be skepticism around psychology, around mental performance, around counseling, just because I mean for a number of reasons.
But in my humble opinion, you know, measuring, quote unquote, success with mental performance is really hard to explicitly do.
(04:12):
And to see that this person advanced from here to here, you can do that on some level,
but it's until the advancement of technology and everything else really comes into play.
It's hard to do that. And so in my opinion, that's one of the main reasons why I think stigma is going to continue to to be around.
Do you think a lot of people is important?
(04:34):
I think most in the military, one hundred percent thinks that this is an important aspect of their performance.
I would say. I hate to put a percentage on it, but here we go.
Ninety percent plus that I have encountered in the military space agree that training the mind is vitally important.
(05:00):
It was more of the kind of old school mentality, not necessarily older people,
but just old school mentality that believe that you don't need to you know, you're either mentally tough or you're not or you're mentally flexible or you're not.
And so those individuals that understand the importance of that is in the majority, one hundred percent, I would think.
(05:25):
And I would say in my experience. And then I also believe the last part of the question is the perception around this shifting.
Yes. In fact, so being a professor at the University of Utah.
I get to meet a lot of wonderful students and talking about exercise, psychology, sports, psychology, et cetera.
(05:49):
I had a military vet come up to me after class.
I didn't know he was in the military, but he's an army ranger.
So he was in the in the army for I think it was six years and he was a ranger, did like two deployments.
And he came up to me afterwards, like, I want to talk to you about your career and talk about what you do, especially when you were in the army.
(06:09):
So we chatted for like an hour and a half in my office and the overarching theme from this gentleman was,
gosh, I wish I would have received that training when I was in the military for some reason.
Don't know why his particular unit, his particular experience didn't receive a lot of this resilience training or mental performance training.
(06:34):
But he was very adamant about I wish 100 percent I would have received this training.
It would have made my experience that much better.
Now, that was one elite military guy.
Right. But I've had similar conversations with those that have received it and have told me what a difference it truly makes.
(06:57):
In their physical performance, going through obstacle courses, going through using their weapons to shoot rifles and targets,
they can see kind of a difference quantitatively in integrating some of this stuff.
But a lot of it is subjective and them letting us know as a team in the mental performance realm just how much better they feel prepared,
(07:21):
how much better they feel in terms of overcoming the adversity that's inevitable and especially in a space like the military.
So yes, yes, yes.
And I'm hoping the perspective can continue to shift and can continue to be as accepted as possible within this particular space, all spaces, but especially the military.
(07:42):
So, yeah, definitely. That's my long winded answer.
Nice. Yeah, that's a good answer.
No, I think that was really good.
He then continues on in the second half of his question.
Yeah. Do you want me to read it?
And sure, go ahead.
OK, so we're continuing with the great Tom from the great state of Utah.
(08:02):
This is the second part of this one question, which is so great.
Ashley, do many of your teammates have mental performance coaches and or experts that they work with, or are you in the minority?
And then he continues. Is there a greater emphasis on mental performance in women's sports than in men's sports?
Or are there certain sports where the athletes seem to put a greater emphasis on it?
(08:29):
So a couple of questions in there.
Yeah, those are all great questions.
I'll do my best to answer all of them succinctly so we can get to all the other questions.
But yes, I would say from the beginning of my career to where I'm at now,
there are definitely more and more of my teammates who are seeking mental performance coaches or experts on their own.
(08:54):
But like we've said and talked about in previous episodes, the teams in this league are now required and are all noticing that it makes a big difference for their athletes to have this type of mental performance support from coaches.
And they're required to have a mental performance coach with them.
So we have a full time mental performance coach at the Spirit, which I think is great because it gives athletes the opportunity to just get introduced to working with a mental performance coach and just start figuring out that side of their game.
(09:26):
I think you have athletes who come to a roadblock in their game like me and they're like, OK, I need this.
And they figure that out on their own.
Or you have athletes that are don't really understand the full importance of it yet.
But then they're introduced to it and they see that I can continue to help improve their game.
Everyone's path and journey is different.
But I feel like the conversation around help with your mental side of your game is growing.
(09:54):
I can't really speak to the difference between men's and women's sports, mostly because I'm with the women's side of the game.
But I do think it's growing on both sides, which I think is really important.
I think there's different stigmas for both sides with men's soccer or women's soccer and vice versa.
But I think the overarching message is that it's growing for both.
(10:18):
I think both groups of people understand that it's really important.
And then are there certain sports where athletes seem to put greater emphasis on it?
I mean, I think you're just you see it from different athletes.
I think individual sports are very different.
I think the mental side of your game is, I don't want to say more important, but maybe more clear because it's just you.
(10:46):
When you're with a team, there's so many more variables.
You have a coach that's deciding if you play or you don't play.
You have other teammates.
There's just so many other variables, which is also maybe another reason why mental performance training and coaching is even more important.
So I just feel like the dynamic is different with individual sports versus team sports.
(11:10):
But I would say that the importance for mental performance training and coaching is just as important.
Did I did I get all of them?
I think you did on that one.
OK, nice. Yeah.
Can I can I add just a tiny bit to the last part of that question?
Sure.
(11:30):
Just generally in the field of sports psychology, I would say, you know,
sports psychology, again, in general, is accepted in every sport.
Now, in terms of deliberately and explicitly hiring mental performance coaches.
Baseball, in my experience, seems to be the most on board.
I mean, they have teams of mental performance coaches for their clubs.
(11:53):
Now, granted, you know, one Major League Baseball team has, I don't know, five farm team clubs throughout the country,
throughout the world sometimes and Dominican Republic and in some other places.
But nonetheless, in terms of like who's the number one employer for mental performance coaches in all of sports,
(12:14):
objectively, it would have to be baseball, in my experience, just because, again, they hire so many for so many of their ball players.
But that's not to say that soccer and football and basketball and softball don't.
It's just right now, Major League Baseball seems to be objectively the most on board with hiring these as full time coaches.
(12:36):
So, anyway. Nice.
Yeah. And I also think it has it's just access to resources, a.k.a. funding.
I feel like baseball is one of those sports that does have a lot of funding, which is which is great.
And so they're able to access those resources for their athletes.
But I think as teams in a sport see that the the value and the importance of mental performance coaches,
(12:59):
I think we're definitely going to see a lot more sports and teams getting on board because it is really important.
But, yeah, thanks for adding that. I could see why baseball is so important,
just the way that the sport is for mental performance coaching.
OK, let's go to our next question. This is for you, Matt.
(13:21):
Sally from Ohio, she says that she's she's in college for sports psychology.
And she asks you, Matt, what advice would you give to someone starting out in the field?
Yeah. Oh, and yeah, there's a question for you. OK.
Well, first, Sally, I'm going to challenge you to make sports singular sport psychology.
(13:50):
It's a very, very common mistake. So no worries at all, Sally.
I think a lot of people are calling this sports psychology.
But from the get go, you know, we're starting out in this field.
Let's let's make that singular. Let's let's start calling it sports psychology.
That's that's important for me.
I didn't know that. So thanks for sharing that with me, too.
I think I say sports psychology all the time.
(14:12):
Well, a lot of a lot of people do. But the correct the correct way I get.
Yeah, it's the singular sport psychology.
OK, now, all kidding aside, what advice would you give someone starting out in the field?
Oh, boy. I get calls quite often and emails quite often from kind of younger or not necessarily
(14:34):
or objectively younger, just individuals getting coming out in this field.
And my my first question is always, what do you want to do?
Because there's a number of different ways that you can go within this field.
Do you want to go into academics and teach like myself?
Do you want to which is generally where a lot of people want to go?
Do you want to go into professional or college sports and work with with athletes and coaches?
(14:57):
Again, that's generally where most people want to go.
Or do you want to go work in the military space or do you want to open up your own business?
Or do you want to be a counselor or a licensed psychologist and then do some sport
and performance psychology consulting kind of mingled in?
So first, I think, Sally, it would be important to answer that question.
What do you want to do within this field?
(15:19):
Now, if you're in the majority and you want to work with athletes and coaches from youth to professional.
Here's where I've been really adamant lately.
I think it's really, really important to get a mental health piece first and foremost as your foundation
and then supplement that with sport and performance psychology training,
(15:43):
like getting the CMPC, Certified Mental Performance Consultant Certification.
The reason I say that is objectively colleges and professional organizations, for the most part,
are hiring first and foremost mental health professionals.
So they're psychologists, they're counselors, et cetera.
(16:04):
Then kind of supplemental to that, it's OK, do you have sport and performance psychology training
in addition to your mental health training?
That's where professionals, that's where clubs, athletic departments and professional organizations are going.
That's why I always tell individuals coming up in this field, I wish I would have gotten a master's degree
(16:28):
in clinical mental health counseling and then supplemented that with my Ph.D.
in sport and performance psychology because and I love being in academics
and I will probably always be in academia.
But I can't apply to any job under the sun when it comes to sports psychology because there's,
for the most part, especially with college athletic departments and professional organizations,
(16:54):
a lot of them are now requiring this licensure of being a mental health therapist of some sorts.
And I don't have that.
Now, I do have a CMPC, which part of the certification requires one to take counseling
and psychology type of courses at a graduate level, which helps.
And so I always tell people I'm able to spot the red flags when it comes to more serious mental health issues.
(17:22):
That's kind of where my training is.
But I am not trained both ethically and competently to address and diagnose and prognose mental health concerns.
So that is kind of my drawback, at least with my training.
So I tell kids all the time again, not kids, but just individuals coming up on this field.
If you want to work with athletes and coaches, and usually it's at the college level and above,
(17:48):
they're now requiring, for the most part, that you receive first and foremost that mental health piece
and then supplement it with something like the certification of being a mental performance consultant.
So hopefully that answers the questions.
Yeah. Second part of this, Ash, is for you.
You ready? Yeah, let's hear it.
(18:08):
I'm going to read it. OK, here we go.
Oh, and she called you Ash. I love that she shortened it.
Ash, from an athlete's perspective, what is something helpful?
Oh, Matt has done to gain you on the spot.
I know. Go. Here we go.
OK, Ash, from an athlete's perspective, what is something helpful Matt has done to gain your trust and confidence?
(18:31):
So you'll listen to his advice.
Oh, boy. Here we go.
Dun, dun, dun.
No, I love this question.
I think it's really important, especially when you're trying to find someone, a mental performance coach,
to help you with your mental performance journey in your field, in your sport, in whatever it is that you're doing.
(18:55):
I think having that initial trust is really, really important because you know, Matt,
like we have to share a lot of vulnerable things and we have to be open and honest about our thoughts and our feelings
and our struggles and the things that we're going through.
So having that initial trust and confidence and building that foundation is, first and foremost,
(19:17):
probably the most important key to having a good relationship with a mental performance coach.
And I think that that's why I was so excited to work with you, because we had that foundation from the very beginning.
I think we initially met when you were coming out and visiting Jeff,
and I just knew that you were one of Jeff's cousins and you came to a game and I didn't know what you did.
(19:40):
But we had, you know, that's the first time that we met and we just had a normal, like,
friendship foundation from you being Jeff's cousin and then learning more about what you did.
And then at that time in my life, I was talking to Jeff about probably needing to just invest more in the mental side of my game.
And you were just forefront of mind because you had just visited.
(20:03):
And so I feel like that that is why we were able to start off on such a strong foot.
But then also just the way that you're able to listen, I think that is really, really important.
I didn't ever feel like when we started working together, you were trying to, like,
force me to do some curriculum or like this this theory is going to help change your life.
(20:29):
It was like, no, like you listened, you understood, you did your best to try and understand my world.
And I think that built a lot of trust.
And I would say to specifically answer Sally's question of what is something
Matt has done or something that you have taught me is definitely I know we talk about it a lot,
(20:50):
but it's so important is just this aspect of self-awareness.
I feel like I'm a completely different person from when we first started to where I am now because of this tool and this skill of self-awareness that you've taught me.
And I feel like it's something that we always come back to no matter what I'm dealing with.
(21:13):
So, yeah, I would say trust, confidence and then self-awareness is something that you've taught me.
And you're just an overall great person.
So, I mean, I feel like that that definitely helps.
But yeah, those are a few things that I would say Matt has done to help gain my trust and confidence.
Well, you're too nice, actually. It's just the truth.
(21:36):
Well, thanks, Golly.
Now I'm blush and red and embarrassed to expound on that experience.
I think it would be interesting to note what does the process of working with someone like myself from your perspective look like?
I mean, is it for the first year you have to meet every week or for the first six months, every other.
(21:59):
And then it's like it tailors off into just needs by needs basis for you.
What has that look like and what has been the best kind of M.O. so to speak in working with these type of coaches like myself?
Yeah, definitely. I think we should count this as Amy from Tennessee's question.
I was just going to say, I think Amy asked that question.
(22:20):
So let's take that. We'll just take that off.
But yes. So for our, I guess, relationship specifically, like it first started with just like general introduction.
I think you sent me like a little worksheet of like, OK, like, what are your goals?
Like, what do you what are you wanting to get out of this?
(22:42):
And I had a few questions on there. And I think our first session, we kind of went over those questions and answers and we just talked about it.
Like what what I'm wanting out of this relationship, what areas of my skills am I wanting to improve?
And so we just initially talked about that. And I think we started on a few things that I was struggling with the time.
(23:05):
I think I had a difficult coach at the time. And so we kind of worked through a few of those things.
So I think we met probably like once a week.
But as time went on and as I continued to kind of learn the things that you're teaching me and learn how to like.
To meditate and to journal and to use all these skills that you're teaching me, like I feel like we didn't need to meet as often.
(23:31):
So then it kind of turned into maybe like once a month or if something another challenge arose, I felt like I needed to talk to you about.
Then we would, you know, get on back a cadence of meeting once a week.
So it was kind of like whatever I needed. And also, like as I graduated in my mental performance journey,
I feel like we didn't need to meet as often, but I feel like you're always good to like check in with a text message or motivational quote here and there.
(24:02):
So, yeah, I feel like it's kind of evolved. It's right now it's a needs by needs basis,
but it definitely started off on more of a cadence of once a week.
And I think that's what's so great about like meeting a mental performance coach is like it's individual.
Your training and your curriculum is very specific to you and what you what you want and what your needs are.
(24:28):
And that's something that like Matt and I have figured out together and that has done a really good job of that.
So I guess that's my answer from my perspective to that question. Do you have anything else to add?
No, I think well, just a little, but I think that was beautifully articulated.
Now, if we're going to the literature within sports psychology, which here we go, right.
(24:51):
But on the professor cap, they use this word self-regulation.
So from a mental performance standpoint, quote unquote, you're like done or you're kind of you.
You've helped them to the best that you can when they reach this level of self-regulation.
So, like you said, I mean, you alluded to it once I felt comfortable meditating,
(25:14):
once I felt comfortable journaling, and once I felt comfortable on my own integrating and applying some of these concepts.
It was almost like, OK, hands are clean.
I'm going to move on to the next one now as a mental performance coach.
That's not my perspective. I like any other kind of development in life.
(25:34):
I don't think you're ever fully there as an individual.
Now, one hundred percent, you can reach a more regulatory state. Absolutely.
But you're never truly done training the mind.
There's always something that's going to come up that you need to address and you need to become more self-aware.
(25:55):
And you need to reintegrate some of the things that you did three years ago that you've kind of forgotten about.
You forgot about. Right. So for me, yes, self-regulation is a huge portion of it,
but it's also regularly checking in even if you feel like and they feel like self-regulation has been achieved.
(26:16):
And so for me and you, Ashley, I mean, again, we've been as most people know, we've been going at it for five years,
working together for almost five years ish. I think it is like almost exactly five years.
November 2019, I believe, was the first time we like started.
So five years we've been saying five years. I think it is exactly five years next month.
(26:38):
Anyways, nice. They make you start saying six years.
I know. Right. Heading into six. Yeah.
At first, it was once a week and then it was every other and then it was once a month.
But then like the last year, for the most part, it's been check ins like me sending you a text.
How are things? Here's a quote. Here's a thought.
(27:00):
And then you say, hey, I would love to chat. It's been three months. It's been two months.
I think there's some things that I need to get off my chest.
I think there's some things that we need to revisit.
So that needs by needs basis for me is really important, even though I would argue you've definitely achieved this kind of self regulatory state, if that makes sense.
(27:21):
It's just so fluid because you're going to have one obstacle and one challenge that's going to be so different from another obstacle and another challenge.
And so it's going to require a different flexibility psychologically.
And sometimes that requires a new set of eyes, a new perspective.
And that's where mental performance coaches, I think, will always come into play and always, quote unquote, have a job because of the inevitable fluidity of challenges and setbacks that will occur regardless of your situation.
(27:53):
So hopefully that makes sense. Yeah, totally. No, that's great.
It's a good question. All right, let's let's try and pound out some of these questions so you get to a few more.
I need to be more concise in the way I respond.
No, no, no. We love we love the in-depthness of your questions.
But I think some of these we can like, for example, I can answer this one from Anna from Colorado.
(28:19):
Actually, why do you wear number 33? That was my soccer number growing up because someone else took number three, so I chose number 33.
Honestly, and I have pretty much the same story as you, except for my soccer number was six growing up and then someone took it and three plus three is six.
So that is why I am number 33.
(28:42):
What's what's six? Why? I mean, is there a significant?
Yeah, well, I there's just six members in my family growing up.
And so when it came time to choose a number and that was available, that's the meaning that I put behind it.
And so I really liked the number six.
And then I was really upset when it got taken when I switched teams.
(29:05):
And so I was like, I don't want it to be ever taken again.
So I was like, no one's going to want number 33. Let's do it.
So, yeah, that's like when you celebrate, like put two threes up.
Yeah. For like six or I don't know, like somehow.
Or maybe you do like a like a six with your hand.
(29:25):
Maybe there's something cool that you could do after you celebrate.
And it could be like you play a game. That's not a bad idea.
And you see little girls around the country going, hmm, or like putting up a six.
That's not a bad idea. I'll definitely have to brainstorm some ideas around that.
But yeah, that's that's a good question. Cool.
All right. What other ones do we have? Let's see.
(29:46):
What about this one, Matt? I know that you have podcasts that you like to listen to.
This is from Fred from Idaho.
What podcasts are you both listening to or what are your listening recommendations, books, podcasts, et cetera?
Yeah. Yeah. So.
One of my if we're going like specifically sports psychology, we had Pete Olusaga on our last episode.
(30:13):
He has a podcast called 80 Percent Mental.
Phenomenal podcast. He I know I'm biased, but he comes from this researcher, really understands the literature of sports psychology.
And then he brings on these guests that are like minded when it comes to literature and research,
but also from a very applicable kind of real world application standpoint as well from a sports psychology lens.
(30:36):
So I highly recommend 80 percent mental if sports psychology is the realm you want to go in.
And then I don't know why I just thought of this, actually, but I'm going to suggest it.
OK, I like to kind of divvy things up and go outside of my realm of, quote unquote,
expertise and see if there's other things that I can learn from other domains. And so I love nature and I love the wild.
(31:03):
And so, in fact, there's a podcast called The Wild and it's this podcast of this gentleman traveling the world and learning about
jaguars, learning about bears, learning about magpies like there's it's so random, but like you can hear him walking through the forest.
(31:26):
Like he has he has these microphones on as he's going.
And then you can hear like the crackling of fire in the background.
And then he goes on these adventures of uncovering and unpacking what all these different creatures and geographical locations are all like.
I think it's fascinating and we can learn a whole bunch from nature and from the wild.
And again, it's called The Wild and I think it's what Chris Morgan is his name.
(31:51):
And then I have one more kind of book recommendation because he he just said book.
I just I love all kinds of books, but this is just kind of, you know, recency bias.
This is what I'm reading right now. And it's called Same As Ever.
(32:12):
And the subtitle is a guide to what never changes. It's like kind of a weird title.
It's really good because it dives into things that we should, but not always be learning from the past.
Like, I think we always as as creatures, human creatures, as human beings, we want to like reinvent the wheel.
(32:38):
We want to learn from the past and do things differently. We want to be better.
We want to improve and grow, which is great and fantastic.
But there's also so much that we can learn from the past that we're continually doing and not doing a better job at.
And so he this his name is Morgan Housel.
I think it's how you say his last name. He's and I'm only like a quarter of the way in.
(33:02):
But so far, it's a phenomenal book. He just goes over that it's like these timeless lessons about whether it's money or life or storytelling and ambition and satisfaction and how we can learn from all of these different experiences of history.
Because that's the way they did it. And this is the way it's going to continue to be.
(33:24):
So we need to embrace it and continue to to learn from it.
Anyways, that's the recommendation book wise that I have for everybody.
Those are good. That's a good one.
My recommendations. I have been enjoying the Heberman Lab podcast.
Just I just love learning a lot.
(33:46):
And I feel like he does a really good job of articulating like really complicated things so that I can understand them.
But he recently had an episode. I'm trying to find it.
I can't find it right now. Oh, with Stacey Sims, a female specific.
(34:06):
She's like a female health expert kind of.
And she just goes over like specific exercises and nutrition for health for women of all ages.
And something that's like very interesting that I learned, which I feel like is like duh.
But I didn't really didn't really click until she talked about it, is the difference between men and women and the different like so quote unquote diets that are out there.
(34:34):
So she talked about like fasting and how it's not as beneficial for women as it is for men.
And it's kind of funny because Jeff and I will argue is a strong word, but we disagree a lot in some of each other's like eating habits.
And like I cannot go work out or start my day off unless I have breakfast because I just like I can't do it.
(34:58):
But Jeff can like wake up, drink a glass of water and then like go run or go work out or do whatever.
And I'm just like, you're crazy. That's so unhealthy for you.
Like, what are you doing? But she did a really good job of articulating that like that's OK for men, but not as OK for women.
And these are the reasons why. And so anyway, I think that his the guests that he has on are great.
I think he has a really good job of just helping me learn a lot of really cool, fun, new things.
(35:23):
His episodes are really long, so I usually have to break it up or I listen to it on my way to training.
And then a book that I recently not recently, but it was early this year, Kill a Unicorn by Emma Hayes is really, really good.
She reads it. I listen to it in audible and it's her voice.
But she has a really cool perspective and just a lot of her stories from her coaching experiences and the lessons that she's learned.
(35:51):
I really enjoyed. So there's a two women's national team. Yes.
Yeah. Yeah. So that's those are two pretty good recommendations that I would have.
But thanks. Thanks, Fred, from Idaho for the question.
Hey, you want to hear something really random? So this honestly, I think this is one of the best.
(36:15):
Compliments I have received a student came up to me last week after class, and he goes, Dr. Moore, have you heard of Andrew Huberman?
And I'm like, 100 percent I have. And he goes, you remind me of him.
Oh, my gosh. That's a good comment. Yes.
(36:37):
And I like my smile from ear to ear.
And I go, if I can even be like a quarter, a fraction of a superman, that's my goal in life professionally.
So thank you. You just made my year. Not only my day, but.
Yeah, that's awesome. That's a good compliment.
And I think it's because I have a beard and I had a black shirt on that day and Andrew always wears black shirts.
(36:59):
And so like even appearance wise, I was putting off Andrew Huberman vibes.
Maybe that's who you should be for Halloween. I should.
I'm just kidding. That's cool. That's a good compliment.
All right. You want to do one more, two more? How many you want to do?
(37:22):
We can do a couple more. Let's just try and be again, more concise, succinct about it.
Yeah, let's see. I don't know how bad I was at this until we started.
This is a fun one. Susan from Maryland.
Does the humidity bother you when playing, especially since you don't really get water breaks?
(37:42):
Yes, I hate the humidity. It makes my job a lot more difficult.
But since moving out to the East Coast, I am definitely more acclimated to the humidity.
But yes, short answer. Yes, it does bother me. I hate it.
That's hilarious. Can I do a funny one from Jerry from California?
(38:03):
Yeah, let's do it.
Matt, do your colleagues think you're cool for having this podcast or do they just think you should spend more time publishing?
Yeah, great question, Jerry.
So I don't think any of my colleagues at the University of Utah actually realize I have a podcast.
Now, other colleagues within the sports psychology field, I think, do understand that.
(38:28):
And I think they think it's cool. I don't really know.
They better answer. I know. Answer your publishing question.
Fortunately, my main responsibility at the University of Utah is to teach.
So publishing for me is not, quote unquote, like a part of my responsibilities at the university.
(38:48):
Now, that's not to say I'm not doing research and not publishing, but it's not something I, quote unquote,
have to be doing as a professor at the University of Utah.
So great question, Jerry.
Good question. We have two questions about from dads.
(39:11):
About teaching girls to develop resiliency and to deal with stresses and challenges of competitive sports.
This is a good one. I feel like we could both answer this, but I think you should start.
(39:35):
OK, do we want to read the question or do we want to just kind of take it?
Yeah, for sure. As a girl dad of three daughters, this is from Ken from Utah.
How can I help them to develop resiliency to deal with the stresses and challenges of competitive sports?
That is a great question. And in fact, Ash and I will most likely do an entire episode on this,
(39:58):
I think just because it's such a influential, profound skill set to have being a resilient individual.
And I say this, I think on every episode, I love resiliency and I love the science behind it.
And I love telling individuals that I work with or that I'm around that I want to help them become a more resilient person,
(40:22):
just because I believe it bleeds into everything else and just enhances everything else around you,
whether that's your inner experience or outer experience.
So again, I think we're going to do an entire episode on this,
but I want to invite you dads to go read Tomorrow Mind by Rosen Kellerman.
(40:47):
Rosen Dash or Hyphen Kellerman is the first one. Gabriella Rosen Kellerman, that's her full name.
And then Martin Seligman, he's the positive psychology guy.
There's a lot of stuff in there that's fantastic, directly or indirectly touching on resiliency.
(41:08):
But one thing in particular, one section, it's probably even a few chapters within that book,
is they go over these five drivers of resiliency.
And again, I think we're going to do an entire episode on all of these,
or maybe we do like one episode with one driver, one episode with the second driver, third driver, et cetera.
Here are their drivers, cognitive agility, emotional regulation, self-compassion, optimism and self-efficacy.
(41:37):
Now, again, we could unpack those from so many different angles.
And here we go. I'm not being concise again.
So sorry about that.
But for you girl dads, I'm imagining they're right like junior high, high school girls,
like pick one of those and start to help that girl, your daughter develop that.
I would think at that age that self-compassion is a huge one.
(42:03):
Help them be more accepting of who they are, help them be more compassionate for their flaws,
and help them develop a better relationship with failure in soccer or softball or basketball or academics or relationships or whatever else.
That's going to 100% directly influence their resiliency.
(42:24):
Sorry. Once again, long winded answer.
No, it was great.
I feel like it's hard to answer this one succinctly because it is such a good question and resiliency is such a great topic.
And I think we should do another episode on it for sure.
But I think the last part about what you said is really important from my perspective when I look back on my career and I think about all the challenges that I had to overcome from junior high, middle school, all the way up till now in my career.
(42:56):
Every time I look back, it doesn't really matter what the challenge was, but it was my reaction to that challenge and also not letting that challenge define me.
And also realizing that this challenge is just a moment in time and one day I'll be able to look back on this challenge and what am I going to learn from it?
And I think that's the most important thing you can help your daughters learn is like no matter what the challenge is, what's going to be my reaction and how do I want what type of person, what type of athlete do I want to be?
(43:30):
And I know especially from like when you're in youth soccer and you get all these different perspectives and you need to do this and you need to do this and you need to do this.
If you want to become this, it can be overwhelming and any challenge or setback can feel like the end of the world.
But I'm here to tell you, I promise you it's not. So helping your daughters see and realize that perspective for themself is just going to set them up for success in life, not just in their sport.
(44:03):
And it's really hard and it's something that I feel like we all have to learn and practice over and over and over.
But the more you do it, the better at resiliency, the better you'll get when challenges do come your way.
So, yeah, I would just add to what Matt said, just help them.
(44:24):
What was the word that you use? Self? Self-compassion?
Yes, self-compassion.
And I think help them develop that skill is is really what it's going to take to help them through anything.
And they're going to be able to take that with them once they leave your home. So, yes, that's my not so succinct answer.
But we should definitely talk about this more.
(44:46):
I know I need to I need to share a quick story about you and maybe we can end on this.
Ashley is like. The prime example of this, in my opinion, she's she's developed this resilient emotional and psychological frame of life.
(45:07):
In fact, I remember talking to a young mother with two young soccer players.
This was like last year, I think.
And she found out that I was working that we were working together and she comes up and she goes,
my daughter, one made the net like the travel team or the some AAU team or whatever.
(45:30):
And then one didn't. And they were like a year apart.
And the one that did it was devastated.
But then she goes, but then she read Ashley's story about not making the women's national team and how much she's learned and grown from that experience and how much she's continuing to develop and find success.
And she goes. And then I realized we all have these Ashley moments that we need to learn from.
(45:55):
And my daughter in that moment was so inspired by her Ashley moment that she's now thriving and getting better and learning from this devastating devastating experience.
I'm like, boom, resiliency. There you go.
Prime example of what it's like to actually look look at its face right in the real world and integrate its principles.
(46:17):
So, yeah. Oh, that was so cool.
Thanks for sharing. That was sweet. Yeah.
Yeah. OK, I had to add one more thing, though, from what you said.
I think I think I'm not a parent and I hope to be one day.
But I'm sure you can relate to this being a parent.
But like when you see your child going through something difficult, you really just want to like protect them and you want to like put them in a bubble and you want to be like, it's OK.
(46:46):
Like, and just make them feel better.
But I think allowing them to have that space to realize like this sucks, like this isn't fun.
I hate this. But then helping them.
OK, like, what do you want to do about it?
Don't try and remove the pain as much as you want to, because like feeling that pain is is really important.
(47:07):
And that's going to help you in the next stage of your life and the next problem that you have to solve.
So like help them navigate that pain, but don't try and remove that pain.
I think that's also really, really important.
And it's so hard to do. I'm sure we could have Jeff on here and he could talk about that with me because I know he would do anything to like remove that pain for me sometimes.
(47:30):
But navigating it together and recognizing it and letting it help you learn.
And then, like you said, then thrive is like it's really key to being able to thrive in a situation that's not most ideal.
So anyway, that's that's the last thing I'll say about that.
I love it. I know this this is an episode that or two or three that we need to.
(47:54):
Really unpack here in the next season, so stay tuned, everybody.
Yes. Awesome. Well, thank you, everyone, for your questions.
Appreciate it. This was fun. We'll have to do this again for season two.
Season two is going to be bigger and better than ever. Right, Matt?
We are learning. So we're hoping it's going to be just that much better.
(48:17):
So, yes. So thank you, everyone. Excited.
Yes. In the meantime, follow, like, listen to episodes that you haven't listened to.
We love your feedback. Subscribe and also follow us on Instagram, the Ditto podcast on Instagram.
We continue to post quotes, videos from previous episodes from our guests.
(48:41):
So we'll still be active there. So make sure you give us give us a follow.
Awesome. Until next time, everybody.
See you soon. Adios.
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