February 10, 2025 • 50 mins
What if you could become the CEO of your own divorce, steering your life towards a future that truly aligns with your values and desires? Join us for a compelling conversation with Bill Miles co-founder of Best Self Magazine and the Best Self Intuitive Divorce Coaching program, as he shares his transformative journey through difficult divorces. Learn how his experiences led him to develop tools and strategies aimed at helping fathers take control, minimizing trauma and unnecessary suffering for themselves and their children.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hello and welcome to the Divorced Advocate, where we
help dads create a healthy andless traumatic divorce.
My name is Jude Sandoval andI'm your host.
Today.
We're going to be talking abouttaking control of your divorce,
and we got a phenomenal guestthat has both practical and
(00:36):
personal experiences so many ofus do in this topic and I'm
really excited to talk with him.
Before we jump into it Again,show note, the divorce quiz is
still up.
Many of you are getting many ofthese a day, which is awesome,
which means, I think, that it ishelping you to gauge where
you're at in your divorceprocess compared to where others
(01:00):
have and are at in theirdivorce, and so check it out.
It takes about 10 minutes.
It's going to give you someimmediate results to take a look
at, and if you want to schedulea time to interpret those
results or just talk aboutanything, then you'll have the
opportunity to do that right asyou get those results.
So check it out, either at thewebsite at
(01:22):
thedivorcedadvocatecom underdivorce quiz or directly at
thedivorcequizcom.
My guest today is a father ofthree, just like me and probably
many of you listening, whoendured a highly toxic divorce
nearly 18 years ago and for manyyears that followed.
(01:43):
We all know about that.
His partner, kristen Knoll, amother of one, also survived a
dramatic divorce with a youngchild and as part of their
healing journey, they co-foundedBest Self Magazine, a leading
voice for holistic health andconscious living, and, most
recently, the Best SelfIntintuitive divorce coaching
(02:04):
program to help other parents inthe early stages of divorce
take control over the divorceand avoid a prolonged, expensive
process and a lot of emotionalsuffering for themselves and
their children.
In short, they now teach thatwhich they needed to learn.
Please welcome Bill Miles.
Bill, how are you?
Thank you, I'm doing great.
(02:24):
Thank you very much for theintroduction.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Please welcome Bill Miles.
Bill, how are you?
Thank you, I'm doing great.
Thank you very much for theintroduction.
Happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
I think your introduction basically describes
a lot of myself or what a lotof people, or a lot of the men
that are listening, have gonethrough.
So share, just maybe elaboratea little bit more about your
divorce and about yourself, andI just I want to start off by
saying kudos to you, and I'm sograteful for people like you
(02:52):
that have taken something thatis so challenging and are doing
something good and then comingand talking to us about it, so I
really appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Well, the bottom line is, I feel that there is so
much unnecessary suffering thatgoes on in divorce, both through
, you know, for us fathers,through any parent, and for the
children of course.
So it's really become a work ofpassion right here because I
know it can make a difference.
But just briefly on the details, my divorce process started
(03:27):
about 18 years ago and it takesa little while to actually get
divorced.
But that's just the beginning.
Then you actually live with thedivorce for the years that come
, and so the time I got divorced, my kids were very young.
They were five, eight and 10 atthat point.
Now, you know, I see them asadults and I've seen they're
(03:53):
still wrestling, they're stillgrappling with the process of
the divorce and the years thatfollowed, and in different ways,
and it's just fascinating to mesometimes painful and sometimes
heartening as well to see howthey navigate this and how
things could have been differentfor them.
(04:14):
You know, and so that's reallythe genesis of this, and my
partner, kristen Noel, and we'vebeen together about 16 years at
this point and she ended upgetting divorced about the same
time with her son at that pointwas five or four, I guess, and
again, so he's now an adult andwe've seen you know we have, yes
(04:36):
, a blended family at this pointbut we've seen what strategies
work and what strategies don'twork.
And we kind of created this BestSelf magazine about seven years
ago as a labor of love.
It's kind of taken on a wholelife of its own which we're
excited about.
It's become kind of a leadingvoice for holistic health and
conscious living.
(04:57):
It's really aboutself-empowerment, but it was a
process of learning all thetools that neither of us had in
our toolbox when we were up tothis point.
It's like how do you recoverfrom how do you not only recover
from the ashes of a collapse?
How do you learn from it?
(05:18):
How do you let that guide youso that you don't make the same
life mistakes going forward?
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Right?
Well, do any of us have thetools to go through divorce?
Right?
Hopefully, none of us gothrough it more than once.
So if you don't go throughsomething more than once, have
you ever really developed thosetools?
Speaker 2 (05:39):
You.
This is the thing I now knowthat we all actually have tools
within us to.
Yes, it's a new experience, butwe have tools to handle the
chaos and we have tools to makeimportant decisions.
We have to make it from agrounded place.
(06:00):
If we can access, if someonecan guide us, if we can learn
how to access those tools.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Right, that makes sense.
So we're literally like ifdivorce is the Home Depot and
we're trying to do a drywallrepair, but all the tools are in
the Home Depot, we just don'tknow which ones to use.
We need somebody like you orsomebody else to say, okay,
these are the tools, this iswhere you go buy them and this
(06:26):
is what you.
You know, this is how youimplement them and you know this
is a guy.
Analogy, right?
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Tools, that's a really good analogy.
Yeah, yeah, that's what it is.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Well, let's talk about that a little bit, then,
about how to take control ofyour divorce.
And you've to take control ofyour divorce, and you've, you've
, you've, you've identifiedthese tools or these, these five
different ways in in in whichyou can do that.
What's what's the, what's thefirst one, that that you need to
do?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah.
So there's Kristen and I'vekind of developed a methodology
and they're basically five, fiveshifts mental shifts that you
have to make to take control.
It can be very effective toallow you to take control of
your divorce, and the caveat tothis is that I'm really speaking
to well.
(07:15):
I'm speaking to any person atany stage in their journey, but
especially people in the firsthundred days of their divorce.
And the reason that that's soimportant is to catch them in
the early stage is because it'swhen you're emotionally so
charged right, whether it'sshame or anger or chaos or
(07:37):
confusion, it's really anemotionally charged period.
Yet in those first hundred daysyou're asked to make decisions
that are critical to both yourfinancial security and the
emotional security for you andyour children for years and
years to come.
So that's why, if you can get ahold of it early on, it can
really dramatically shape youroutcome.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
And when you say the first 100 days of your divorce,
you mean hundred days ofstarting the divorce process or
considering filing for divorce.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
It's clearly not a concrete definition of when it
starts, but basically, once youcross the line, you know we're
not really involved in savingmarriages or marriage counseling
and so forth, and I hopemarriages do survive.
But when you cross that lineand you know the divorce is
imminent, so either you've madethat emotional shift or you've
discussed it, or maybe youalready starting the divorce
(08:29):
process.
Um, but you know it takes awhile to get divorced.
The average divorce is is inthis country is 11 months and if
it goes to trial it's 18 monthsor longer.
So it's a long road ahead, butthe stage is set is set quite
early actually, because youstart with your initial, your
temporary agreement and it justbuilds from there.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Right, and I'd add because the majority of men are
the ones that are served withdivorce papers that that process
starts right there.
Right then, whether you'reaware of it and consciously
aware of it, that this is allgoing to start a whole cascading
effect of emotions and feelingsand all kinds of things that
are going to be happening,whether you want it to or not,
(09:15):
because you were just servedpapers.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
That's right, it is going to happen.
That train is moving Exactly,and that kind of is another
analogy is what we want to helpyou prevent is this runaway
train.
Yeah, your life feels like atrain wreck right now.
I mean, that's a very commonemotion, so Right.
So how?
What do we do?
All right, so the first, thefirst shift, is to view your
(09:41):
divorce as the opportunity of alifetime, is to view your
divorce as the opportunity of alifetime, and that seems
counterintuitive, because if youare in the thick of this chaos
and you feel like your life hasbeen ripped apart and your
dreams have just collapsed, thelast thing it looks like is an
opportunity.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Yes, I get that all the time right.
I say it's an opportunity, itcan be an opportunity.
And sometimes you get thatsplank stare like opportunities
are good, right, right.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Ain't nothing good happening here my life Exactly,
but.
But you know, we've got somehindsight here, and the fact is
it is an opportunity, and it'snot just for the obvious reasons
.
It's an opportunity to rebuildyour life and get right things
that you didn't get right before.
(10:30):
And that's a lot deeper thanjust maybe choosing a different
partner, if that's what it feelslike it should be to you.
What it really means is gettingin touch with yourself and
taking accountability for yourrole, and that's a hard pill to
swallow for a lot of people,especially if they are the ones
(10:52):
that feel like divorce hashappened to them, like I mean.
There are many situations.
Maybe your spouse had an affair, maybe you felt dumped, maybe
who knows what it was, maybethey just fell out.
But if you're on the receivingend of that, you know it can be
hard to have to do that innerwork to see the role that you
(11:13):
played.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
It took me a long time, but I see it now, and so
let's, can we talk briefly aboutwhat you just said there, which
is divorce happening to you,because I find that interesting,
and I find interesting thatwhen I hear that from some of
(11:37):
the divorced dads going throughthat divorce is never going to
just happen to you, divorce isnever going to just happen to
you, that there's some dynamicthat has evolved in the marriage
(12:21):
and in the relationship thattook both, something that
happened, whether that's abetter marriage or parenting or
whatever it could be.
At least for me, it was anentire better life, right,
because the dynamic wasn't justexclusive to the, to the
marriage, it was permeatingthrough my entire life.
(12:42):
So talk about, talk about thata little more detail so we can
help, like some of the, some ofthe dads that are like this is
horrible, but like I do want tohave a better life and I want to
have.
If this is an opportunity Ireally want to, I want to seize
on it.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
You want to seize it.
It's a lot to grasp and it'sgoing to be a lot to grasp in
the short time that we have.
But it is very easy to feellike this.
This impending train of divorceis happening to you.
I felt like that way.
It's not what I wanted to seehappen.
I was, my life was literallyblown apart overnight and it was
(13:20):
like, oh my God, this is, thisis real, this is going to happen
.
This is happening to me.
But so there are two parts tothat.
One is that you, as in me,happened equally to get to this
end result.
Right, that's theaccountability part.
Go back in time and look at thered flags.
(13:45):
How many times did you notlisten to that inner voice which
is something I'll get to in aminute when maybe you swallowed
what you felt was really correctfor you in the name of, I don't
know, social appearances or thechildren, or not wanting to
(14:09):
rock the boat, whatever it maybe?
There are many reasons that westay into things that maybe we
shouldn't.
The other part, the other sideof happening to the divorce is
that you actually can havecontrol.
That's really what I want toempower our people to realize is
that they're going throughdivorce.
You can take a controllingposition in this and shape the
(14:31):
outcome and design the life thatyou want.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
That's really what it's about, so don't take it
passively Go ahead.
Well, and why is that important?
Well, I guess I got to getsincere.
To the next one.
Why is that important to takethat active role?
right, Because that's a hugepoint and I also want to say
(14:55):
that the points we're makinghere, bill's going to have an
opportunity and offer for youguys to be able to plug into
this and get more informationabout it.
So if you're taking notes or ifyou're like wanting to get more
, we'll have at the end of theshow, some more information for
you.
But why is that taking controlso incredibly important?
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Here's the setup If you don't take control to design
the life that you want, it willget designed anyway.
It's going to get designed byyour ex, by your lawyers, by
your family, by your friends, byyour children, none of whom
probably have your bestinterests at heart or know what
(15:39):
you really want, period.
So something's going to happen.
You will have a life that'sdesigned, but if you want it
designed by you, you have tostep up and be proactive about
it If you want to take commandof what your financial future is
going to look like, what yourrelationship with your children
is going to look like much less,of course, the logistics of
(16:02):
where you're going to live andall that sort of stuff, but even
the bigger picture.
What kind of a future loverelationship do you want to have
?
These things have to beconsidered, they have to be
actively thought about, becauseyou can control these and if you
don't as I said they will beyou'll get a result anyway.
(16:23):
It just won't be the one youwant.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Yes and they you don't.
As I said, they will be.
You'll get a result anyway.
It just won't be the one youwant.
Yes, and they all correlatetogether.
So the parenting plan that youcreate impacts your future
relationship.
It impacts the relationship youhave with your children.
It impacts the financialsituation that you have.
I mean, this impacts everythingthat you do.
So burying your head in thesand or just allowing your
attorney to determine what stockagreement they may have that
(16:57):
they use on 95% of cases is nota good plan for getting through
this process.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
And the attorneys in particular, and I have nothing
personal against attorneysexcept that I spend a lot of
time with them and paying them.
Right, yeah, and I can tell youthat however well-intended they
are, their agenda is verydifferent than yours.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
It is.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
They have a lot of knowledge.
I'm not saying you don't needattorneys you probably will but
you can manage them as well.
You can manage that outcome.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Well, it is your job to manage them.
You are hiring them, and justlike you hire anybody else as a
team member or for a service oranything else, it is incumbent
upon you to be the one that is Icall it driving the bus.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
And so that actually is a good segue into shift
number two, which is to becomethe CEO of your divorce.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
It's really taking charge of your team and what do
you do as a CEO?
You set the vision and the tone.
Okay, this is how I want toproceed, this is what I want for
my outcomes, this is how I wantto conduct myself and what's
your objective for the team.
And once you have clarity and,as I mentioned before, I'm not a
(18:23):
lawyer, I'm not a therapist,I'm not a child psychologist,
not a financial advisor you will.
You might need all of thosepeople.
They all serve a role, but youneed to be clear with them what
your goal is and what tone youwant to have through the divorce
Right.
So I want you to.
You know all the dads out there, so step up and start taking
(18:48):
control of this at an earlystage.
Even if it feels awkward rightnow, you do need to lead this
and if you do, you'll haveamazing results.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Yeah, and for many listening, that may be a new
thing.
That may be a new thing.
They may not have been and thismay be have been a part of the
challenge in the dynamic and whythe dynamic was unsuccessful in
their, in their relationship,because they had not taken
control, they not led like, likethey may have needed to.
(19:33):
They're faced with this.
You know this very challengingtime that is going to determine
a good part of the next decade,maybe two decades of their lives
, and if there's no biggerwake-up call in your life than
right now, then you're going tobe stuck with an incredibly
difficult and challenging andpotentially unhappy life if you
don't step up now.
(19:54):
And that may be hard to do andthat may be scary, and there may
be all kinds of stuff going onin your mind as to what could
happen.
But now is the time to do it,because the impact is and, if
not for anybody other than yourkids, because it's going to
impact your kids too.
And I want to circle back towhat you said, which is your
(20:17):
kids, your parent or your kids,your family, um, your ex, any
none of them are thinking aboutyou first.
They're thinking aboutthemselves, and that's not a bad
thing.
That's just, that's just humannature.
Yeah, that's just human andthat's just.
That's okay.
But you need to be thinkingabout you and what your needs
are and how you move forward andhow you get clear on all that
(20:40):
and I think we're going to talka little bit about that too,
coming up here too, because thatis incredibly important.
But I just want to emphasizewhat you said, which is now's
the time.
Be the CEO, be the bus driverwhatever you want to call it Now
is the time You've got to stepup, get your head out of the
sand.
Hopefully this is a wake-upcall that it's time for you to,
(21:01):
at the very least, lead your ownlife.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
And the fact is it sounds like work to say that,
but it actually is joyful.
And I say joyful that may be anoverarch of the word, but when
you realize that you actuallyhave control to design something
in the future, that suddenlygives meaning to the whole
process.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
It kind of carries you through through yeah, yeah,
and, and so again, you and Ihave the um, uh, the pleasure,
if you will, of hindsight andbeing able to look at that and
say, yes, I can see that, uh,that this is a positive and this
is a good way to do it.
(21:45):
Now, I'm sure you did it a lotsmarter than I did.
Mine was like all throughmistakes and screwing itself up,
and everything else.
But you strike me a lot, a lotsmarter than me, but we at least
have I at least have thehindsight to say, yes, you can
do that.
You can through you know,through control and being able
(22:05):
to be proactive in this, designit how you want.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I certainly, when I went through.
I don't think it has any morecapable or smarter or anything
else.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
I was blindsided, we all are, that's the thing, and
I'm setting you up for a salespitch here, just a mini one in
the middle here Like yeah, I'llwork out for you guys my five
shifts, you know, check out thewebinar.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Anyway, you guys my five shifts, you know.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
check out the webinar anyway, All right.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
So shift number three these all tied together is to
harness the power of yourintuition.
And now that sounds very woowoo to a lot of people,
especially a lot of guys, butit's not, and there's actually
(22:55):
science behind it.
You know, the brain emits anenergy field, right?
The heart emits an energy field, and the heart brain emits an
energy field 5,000 times aspowerful as as the brain does
itself.
How you feel, the energy thatyou put out is incredibly
(23:18):
powerful at influencing things.
But most importantly, whereintuition comes into play, is
that too many people, whenthey're going through divorce,
defer their higher self, theirinner guidance, to the experts,
to the lawyer, to your mother,to your father, to your brother,
(23:40):
to your friend, maybe to yourchildren yeah, there's only one
expert.
There's only one expert.
There's only one expert, andit's right here.
You know what you want and howit feels.
So when I say, tune in, youknow, harness the power of your
(24:01):
intuition what it really meansis okay, I've got a big decision
to make here.
You know, it's a custody issue,or it's a living arrangement,
or it's a financial arrangement.
It's a custody issue, or it's aliving arrangement, or it's a
financial arrangement.
How does that make you feel whenyou are considering option A or
B?
Sure, make the pros and conlists and check them off, but
(24:22):
then sit with it.
You know how does it feel?
Does one feel more expansive orconstricting?
Does one feel more expansive orconstricting?
Does one feel just more painful?
Does one feel aligned with yourvalues?
Does one feel in conflict?
(24:42):
It's not a natural thing.
It's something you have tocultivate.
But I promise you that theanswer is always there and if
you listen to your feelings, ifyou tune into that and you have
to get quiet and find solitudeto do that the answer will
emerge.
And the answer doesn't come toyou as obvious as an email that
(25:03):
says do this.
But sometimes you do get theselittle winks from the universe,
if you will, that kind ofreinforce your idea.
But it does come to you with asense of calm about the answer
and this is what guides you andI promise you, when you follow
your heart, it will never be thewrong answer.
Period Period there are nomistakes to be made.
(25:26):
That's why it's such a powerfulconcept.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Absolutely, and that's the philosophy.
We talked about it on the showthat life is working for you,
not against you.
And so that's a and that's a,that's a.
Chat like that was an ahamoment for me in life in general
, but through this processparticularly, because it's so
incredibly challenging.
But again I have the hindsightof looking back and saying, oh
(25:53):
well, I see why that happenedthe way that it did and that's
led to something that's beenbetter and I can connect the
dots now.
So we're fortunate to have that.
But at least those of youlistening can can, if you can,
reframe and say there is no.
I love what you said.
(26:13):
There's, there are no baddecisions.
There's no negative decisions,there's just decisions, and it's
it's moving you in a directionthat you're supposed to go, for
whatever reason that might be.
And the other thing I want tosay is one of the words that I
like to use is does it make youfeel empowered?
That's it, that's really it yes.
(26:34):
Yeah, does it make?
So when you think about thedecision you want to make and if
everybody is telling you theopposite, trust if it makes you
feel empowered, because nobodyelse what you said is spot on.
Nobody else knows what is bestfor you, so everybody can tell
you the opposite.
(26:54):
But if it doesn't make you feelempowered, or all the other
ways that you described it, orhowever you want to get quiet
and you want to do this process,that, if it doesn't feel right
to you, don't do it.
Just trust your intuition.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
And I made mistakes going through, where I made
concessions to my ex for thewrong reasons.
Yeah, that didn't feel right tome, like I made concessions to
try and make her happy or thatit would ease the friction with
(27:30):
the kids and so forth.
Right, guess what Didn't?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
I just lost out financially Right.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I just gave away money which worsened my ability
to support my family over thelong, many years ahead.
You know what I'm saying.
This is why you've got tolisten to.
You really have to listen toyourself, so yeah, yeah,
absolutely, and, and.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
and I'll add you know there've been times where I've
done that and there have beentimes that I finally learned,
finally, after beating my headagainst the wall so many times,
to just trust it and had theattorney say I absolutely,
adamantly believe that youshould not do that, and I'd say
sorry, and then have it turn outand have my attorney say that's
(28:18):
not how I would have done it,but you are right and so it's
only.
It will be right for youbecause it is empowering to you
and, again, the attorneys you'rea segment of a part of their
day, of many people, and sothey're not tuned in to all of
what you are tuned into in yourlife, in your families, in your
(28:40):
children, in your ex and all theother experts and people that
you might have working on yourteam.
That's why you're the CEO.
So trust your intuition.
It's just like a coach that hasthe intuition to go for it on
the goal line, or a certainplayer to take that last second
shot, or whatever it is.
You're doing the exact samething, yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yeah, that's exactly it.
It's just hard.
We're not taught to do it thisway.
We're not taught to considerourselves in this way, because
it's not tangible.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
It's not tangible and we're doing it through this
high pressure situation thatwe've never been in before.
It's not like we've practicedthis over and over again and
over and over and how to figureit out.
We might just be learning howto do this right now, which is
like what I was doing and it waslike a lot.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
And you know what, when you're paying lawyers 400,
$500 an hour, 300, whatever itis, it's a, it's a lot.
I'm not saying you, I'm notsaying dismiss them.
I'm saying, if you're payingthem, they have good information
, but just use it as that, useit as information, and then get
them off the payroll as quicklyas you can.
Amen.
(29:53):
Yes, my god, the system isrigged to bleed you.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Yes, it really is.
Yeah, yeah, that's a wholenother podcast episode.
Yeah, all right, so the.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
The fourth, uh, the fourth shift is to choose you
first, and and you've used thisanalogy too, but it's like when
you're on the airline and theysay put the oxygen mask on you
first before you try and helpyour children and your neighbor,
or whatnot.
Absolutely true.
You have to fortify yourself inorder to be strong for this
(30:27):
journey, because if you don'tand it hits on a few self-care
is one of them If you don't takecare of yourself physically,
you're going to be anxietyridden, you're going to fall
into weight changes.
You may well deal with sleepdisorders during divorce because
it's so anxiety provoking.
You really have to take care ofyourself, provoking, right, you
(30:51):
really have to take care ofyourself, and it's too easy for
people, for parents, to fallinto the trap of subjugating
their needs for their childrenor for just dealing for the
lawyers for their family,whatever it is, and not saying
stepping back and going wait, Ifeel, I feel terrible, I feel
like shit, I'm not sleeping,whatever.
(31:12):
You know, I need to shore upmyself if I'm going to make
responsible decisions for mychildren.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Yeah, it's absolutely , absolutely, absolutely
critical, and we talk on theshow about it being mental,
emotional, physical andspiritual, like a four-legged
stool, taking care of all ofthose parts, because they all
interact with each other.
And if you're not, no matterwhat your dynamic, if you've
(31:44):
maybe been the primarybreadwinner and you've been at
work and working all the timeand now you're shifting to have
to take care of kids, or theopposite, where you're not.
So, whatever it is, you stillhave to step back and focus,
because this is going to be awholesale change in your life.
So if you're making a wholesalechange anyway, you may as well
(32:06):
start with the foundation ofwhat is most important, which is
yourself.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Which is yourself.
Yeah, you want to be in agrounded position when you make
these decisions.
What does that mean?
Speaker 1 (32:19):
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (32:21):
It means you're not emotionally charged, it means
that you're letting go, You'repausing.
If you were, I don't know.
I don't want to speak for allthe dads out there, but
certainly for many of them theymay be really angry at their ex
or soon-to-be ex.
Whatever happened, whatever thecircumstances are, whatever led
to it, they may be really bitter.
(32:42):
That is not a foundation formaking responsible choices for
your children.
It's just not.
Or you may feel really shameful.
You may have done something youfeel your children Right.
It's just not.
Or you may feel really shameful.
You may have done something youfeel terrible about Right, so
you're feeling weak and small.
That is not a good foundationfor making responsible decisions
for you and for your children.
(33:03):
It's just not.
So what grounded means?
It's taking a step back,anchoring again in your heart
what you want.
What are your values?
Step away from the emotion.
What is best for me, what isbest for my children, what's
best for the family in the longterm?
(33:24):
What's best for our finances inthe long term?
Not in the short-term?
And that's often a mistake,because divorce, in the scheme
of things, is a short-termprocess but it has long-term
consequences and there are twolayers of finances.
Right, you've got the cost ofdivorce, which are primarily
legal costs and court fees andadmin costs, and then you've got
(33:45):
the settlement costs, which arethe alimony or child support,
and you know that's the hugesetup.
Right there, there's so manyexpenses down the line Kids
going to private school orcollege or camps and everything
else down the line after divorcedust is settled.
This is what you're living with, right, so you know the
(34:11):
repercussions are huge on that.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
So grounding being grounded when you make these
decisions is what's important orframing this as an opportunity.
But man, we're going throughall this.
You've been off through thisthree kids.
This is a transition and we gotto work and we're still like
(34:37):
how in the heck do you do that?
I mean, how do you, how do youmanage all that?
Or where do you?
How do you figure it all out?
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Okay.
So there are certain things youstep back and you have to.
So, to get tactical about it,you have to write some things
down Like okay, how do I want toapproach my interaction with my
ex?
Okay, I'm mad as hell that shedid this or that or treated the
kids this way, or whatever itwas.
That she did this or that ortreated the kids this way, or
(35:13):
whatever it was, but for thesake of the kids, I resolve that
I'm not going to disparage herin front of the children.
Absolutely Right.
You know I'm making these up.
There'd be different foreverybody, sure.
And another huge one is truthtelling right.
As crazy as things may be foryou right now, you can anchor
yourself and say I resolve totell the truth and be honest
(35:34):
with my kids.
It's a value right, Because it'svery easy to not or to start
lying a little bit, or maybeit's a little white lie that
turns into a big lie, and thenthe thing is, if you don't tell
the truth to the kids, theycreate their own truth about it
and it may be far darker or moredivergent than the reality, and
(35:57):
that's very damaging.
And now truth telling I meanthat's a whole nother
conversation too, but it has tobe done in age appropriate bites
, right, absolutely.
They don't need to knoweverything that happened, but
they do need to know what it is.
That you tell them has to betruthful, right and something
you can build upon.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Right.
So those, those are good tips,but but how?
Like some of these, some ofthese tools need some
facilitation.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Let's have give me an example.
Give me I'll.
I'll try and respond to you.
Tell me something that could beout of control.
You can't get your hand around.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Yeah, so what does my life look like as a single dad
of three kids, when I've beenworking all of the time, because
now I have 50-50 and I have noidea what to do?
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Okay, what would you like your life to look like?
Speaker 1 (36:55):
I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Okay, let's break it down.
That's a very broad question,so let's make it a little bit
more specific.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Because I've been working, I've been at the office
for our entire marriage and, um, now I have three kids 50% of
the time and I have to figureout how to get them to school
and like their appointments andwhat they eat and how they dress
and you know all all that stuff.
Like I don't even.
I don't even know how to thinkabout what that that looks like.
(37:25):
I don't know how to create thatvision of what I want it to
look like because I don't evenknow.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Okay.
So, going back to values, couldyou say, okay, I don't know how
to get the kids dressed.
I've never really done that,that's been her job, whatever
that.
Maybe that isn't so important,they will get dressed.
Okay, I'm not worried aboutthem going to school naked, so
let's just take a little weightoff that.
(37:53):
Okay, they will eat, so maybethey don't.
Maybe I don't have to haveeverything organized, you know,
in nice neat little boxes thenight before, or maybe I do.
Maybe that's the way I can havecontrol over this.
Okay, engage them in theprocess.
Okay, what steps?
So, right now, what you justdescribed is feeling out of
(38:15):
control, right Out of control.
I just don't know.
I'm out of control.
What steps can you do to bringcontrol back into it?
Okay, let's let's start withmealtime.
If that feels chaotic, let'sstart.
Let's start simple.
Okay, what can?
Can we do this together?
Can we involve the kidstogether?
Can we just say, okay, we willhave dinner together as a family
(38:38):
period, instead of it beingchaotic, because mom used to do
this and they used to be atsports and this and this and
this.
How can I do it differently tosimplify all this chaotic
nonsense that's going on?
right, okay um, when I don'tknow how I'm ever going to date
again or find love again orwhatever, how about I don't
(38:58):
worry about that right now, sure?
I'm going to just take that offthe table and let that evolve
when I'm ready to open my mindor my heart to that kind of
thinking.
So I don't need to stress aboutthat.
What I need to do is not tryand win the year or win the
divorce.
What I need to do is win theday.
What can I do to win the day?
(39:21):
Let's just focus on today.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Yeah, good, I like that.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
That's it when you're blown apart.
You just got to break it downto a little win.
Can I make it to lunch?
Can I get them to school todayand make it to lunch and still
get to work and get that projectdone?
Can I do that?
I don't know what chaos tonightwill bring, but why don't we
all center and come together fordinner and then we'll divvy up
(39:48):
and see who needs to do whattomorrow and what can and can't
work period?
I'm not going to deal with allthe overwhelm right now because
I'm in the office.
We'll deal with it at the endof the workday.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Right, and this is going to be, would you agree, a
process?
Right?
It's going to be a learningprocess.
It's a new thing, and withanything that's new, you might
need help, right?
Yes, I think it's the last year, like your last.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
That's the fifth shift, really is to get help and
what really you know.
Get coaching, get a mentor, getsomeone who has kind of been
through this and can guide you,and this is somebody different,
as I said, from your team.
This is not your.
I'm not saying therapist.
Therapy doesn't have a value.
Therapy is incredibly valuable.
(40:41):
It's different than coaching.
Yes, the coaching is like aSherpa.
It's like you need to climbthat mountain.
I'm going to hold your hand andhelp you take the steps you
need to get there.
You know, therapy is more likemy ankle hurts.
I can't climb that mountainright now.
(41:01):
Okay, the therapist is going tohelp you heal your ankle so
that you can take the next steps.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Right, exactly, yeah, the therapy is backwards,
looking, to get you to the pointwhere you're at, and coaching
is where you're at, in forwardlooking, where you want to be,
and both are incrediblyimportant but they're different,
but combined they can be very,very effective.
(41:28):
So if you've got a therapist,that's great, but if we're,
we're just we're we're justtalking about in the context of
overwhelm and challenges andgoing through this time where
you, where you don't know what'sgoing on, coaching is
completely, completely differentbecause it's going to help you
figure out where you want to getand clarify where you want to
(41:51):
get and how to get there.
Like we, like you just did amasterful job of breaking it
down.
You don't have to figure outdating and everything.
Like you need to figure out howyou're going to get meals for
tomorrow and that might be.
You do it together and it's assimple as that.
And then how do you do that?
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Then you realize that that works.
I can do that.
Okay, now I can tackle the next, the next thing, right, yeah,
absolutely it's, and coaching isvery outcome driven.
That's the thing, the therapyand I've been through plenty of
therapy and it has helped forcertain certain resolutions.
It's far less, it's moreprocess and less outcome driven,
(42:29):
and there's, there's value inthat.
But, yeah, so if I had somebodylike you or we're doing in my
life 18 years ago, things wouldhave been so different.
And I think that's why I wasdriven to this work right now,
because I felt completely alone.
(42:49):
And that's the irony Half ofthe marriages wind up in divorce
.
So there are so many peoplegoing through divorce millions
but you feel like you're theonly one.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
You feel like you're in a cave like you're the only
one and you don't know where tolook.
I mean, you know you've got tocall a lawyer at some point and
they tell you some informationand all this sort of stuff.
Someone who can guide youthrough is priceless and,
furthermore, you can put adollar value on it because they
can save you through the process.
Through following your heart,through limiting this train
(43:23):
wreck, this runaway train of adivorce, you can save a ton of
money, both in legal costs and,more importantly, in making the
right choices in terms ofsettlements that you might not
otherwise make.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
That might be a show that we do in the future to talk
about, because that's notsomething.
You know, what you justdescribed, and I think that
other people like yourself andmyself and others who have been
on the show get into this forheartfelt reasons, to want to
help people, because we wentthrough such pain and difficulty
(43:59):
and see that we now have theability to help mitigate some of
that.
And what you said was exactlyhow I felt like it's crazy,
right, all these people aregoing through it, but we all
feel alone and that's why we'vecreated the Divorced Advocate
Community so people can getplugged in and we don't we don't
self isolate that we're talkingwith other men and other men
are sharing and we do this inour, in our group coaching.
(44:22):
But but we I think it would beimportant at some point to talk
about this from a financialperspective and how beneficial
it is, because we I don't everyweek, almost every day I talk to
, uh, one of the dads isdecimated by a, a bad agreement.
(44:42):
Yes, that's that the that he gotinto for whatever reason, but
it is having an impact on hischildren because he's unable to
be the best dad he can becauseit is so onerous and difficult,
and this is happening all thetime.
So maybe that'll be somethingin the future that we can talk
about and maybe quantify,because I don't think folks like
(45:04):
us do that enough to put avalue, if you will, because I
don't think I don't think folkslike us do that enough to to put
a put a value, if you will,because I don't know about you,
I just don't think in thoseterms like putting, trying to
put a dollar value on it.
But I think it's important thatwe start talking about that a
little bit more.
I got off track with that but Ithink it's important.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
Well, it's an important.
I mean, look, money's the thingthat wears you down.
Many things wear you down, butyou'll get worn down by money
and divorce for sure it's just ahuge elephant that you've got
to work through in the process.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
Yeah, so well, bill.
Thank you so much.
It was.
This was phenomenal.
We could, like I said when wewere chatting before, we could
probably talk for a couple moreand but I think we should come
back and maybe revisit that andand have a show, uh, about the
financial benefits of havingsomebody guide you, or a coach
guide you through this processand taking control of your
(45:59):
divorce.
Where can the listeners connectwith uh, with you and get more
information on these, these fivesteps?
Speaker 2 (46:09):
So our program is called the best, best self
intuitive divorce program.
But if you go to best self, youknow like be your best self,
best self intuitive divorcecom.
Okay, that's it.
You go to that.
There's a landing page thattells you about us and invites
you to watch a masterclass thatkind of walks you through these
(46:29):
shifts, but in a more detailedand organized way so that you
feel really empowered by the endof it.
You know we offer freediscovery calls breakthrough
calls is what we call them withpotential clients to help them
(46:50):
really identify the trueproblems that they're facing and
the stakes that they're facingand give them a solution forward
.
So yeah.
Bestselfintuitivedivorcecom.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Yeah, bestselfintuitivedivorcecom, and
it's free.
So I mean, at the very least,anybody who's listening is going
through this challenge.
Every I would say everybody hasgot to get on a free call with
somebody in those first hundreddays to talk with somebody and
not not just an attorney, acoach to get a global picture,
(47:24):
or like we were talking about,of what's going on and just even
if it's just pointing you in adirection that is going to help
you, if it's free, why would younot do it?
So go check it out and if youenjoyed what you heard today,
please share this far and wideon social media.
(47:44):
Share this far and wide onsocial media.
Leave us a review, give us alike, give us a star or leave
comments in whatever podcastplatform that you're listening
to, because our whole goal here,bill and Kristen and myself and
everybody else in thiscommunity who's trying to help
(48:04):
divorcing people or divorcingdads is to get this information
out, and this helps us immenselyby doing that.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
And it's so good to talk with you.
You know this kind ofconversation is it touchy-feely?
Is it woo-woo?
Maybe a little?
Yes, honestly, it's reallypractical.
It's really hardcore.
Practical.
This is about how you not onlysurvive, but thrive through the
process and beyond and setyourself up for a fantastic next
(48:33):
chapter.
That's what it's all about, sothank you.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
Thank you, bill, it was such a pleasure having you.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
Very good, till next time, take care.
Hello and welcome to the Divorced Advocate, where we
help dads create a healthy andless traumatic divorce.
My name is Jude Sandoval andI'm your host.
Today.
We're going to be talking abouttaking control of your divorce,
and we got a phenomenal guestthat has both practical and
(00:36):
personal experiences so many ofus do in this topic and I'm
really excited to talk with him.
Before we jump into it Again,show note, the divorce quiz is
still up.
Many of you are getting many ofthese a day, which is awesome,
which means, I think, that it ishelping you to gauge where
you're at in your divorceprocess compared to where others
(01:00):
have and are at in theirdivorce, and so check it out.
It takes about 10 minutes.
It's going to give you someimmediate results to take a look
at, and if you want to schedulea time to interpret those
results or just talk aboutanything, then you'll have the
opportunity to do that right asyou get those results.
So check it out, either at thewebsite at
(01:22):
thedivorcedadvocatecom underdivorce quiz or directly at
thedivorcequizcom.
My guest today is a father ofthree, just like me and probably
many of you listening, whoendured a highly toxic divorce
nearly 18 years ago and for manyyears that followed.
(01:43):
We all know about that.
His partner, kristen Knoll, amother of one, also survived a
dramatic divorce with a youngchild and as part of their
healing journey, they co-foundedBest Self Magazine, a leading
voice for holistic health andconscious living, and, most
recently, the Best SelfIntintuitive divorce coaching
(02:04):
program to help other parents inthe early stages of divorce
take control over the divorceand avoid a prolonged, expensive
process and a lot of emotionalsuffering for themselves and
their children.
In short, they now teach thatwhich they needed to learn.
Please welcome Bill Miles.
Bill, how are you?
Thank you, I'm doing great.
(02:24):
Thank you very much for theintroduction.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
Please welcome Bill Miles.
Bill, how are you?
Thank you, I'm doing great.
Thank you very much for theintroduction.
Happy to be here.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
I think your introduction basically describes
a lot of myself or what a lotof people, or a lot of the men
that are listening, have gonethrough.
So share, just maybe elaboratea little bit more about your
divorce and about yourself, andI just I want to start off by
saying kudos to you, and I'm sograteful for people like you
(02:52):
that have taken something thatis so challenging and are doing
something good and then comingand talking to us about it, so I
really appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Well, the bottom line is, I feel that there is so
much unnecessary suffering thatgoes on in divorce, both through
, you know, for us fathers,through any parent, and for the
children of course.
So it's really become a work ofpassion right here because I
know it can make a difference.
But just briefly on the details, my divorce process started
(03:27):
about 18 years ago and it takesa little while to actually get
divorced.
But that's just the beginning.
Then you actually live with thedivorce for the years that come
, and so the time I got divorced, my kids were very young.
They were five, eight and 10 atthat point.
Now, you know, I see them asadults and I've seen they're
(03:53):
still wrestling, they're stillgrappling with the process of
the divorce and the years thatfollowed, and in different ways,
and it's just fascinating to mesometimes painful and sometimes
heartening as well to see howthey navigate this and how
things could have been differentfor them.
(04:14):
You know, and so that's reallythe genesis of this, and my
partner, kristen Noel, and we'vebeen together about 16 years at
this point and she ended upgetting divorced about the same
time with her son at that pointwas five or four, I guess, and
again, so he's now an adult andwe've seen you know we have, yes
(04:36):
, a blended family at this pointbut we've seen what strategies
work and what strategies don'twork.
And we kind of created this BestSelf magazine about seven years
ago as a labor of love.
It's kind of taken on a wholelife of its own which we're
excited about.
It's become kind of a leadingvoice for holistic health and
conscious living.
(04:57):
It's really aboutself-empowerment, but it was a
process of learning all thetools that neither of us had in
our toolbox when we were up tothis point.
It's like how do you recoverfrom how do you not only recover
from the ashes of a collapse?
How do you learn from it?
(05:18):
How do you let that guide youso that you don't make the same
life mistakes going forward?
Speaker 1 (05:24):
Right?
Well, do any of us have thetools to go through divorce?
Right?
Hopefully, none of us gothrough it more than once.
So if you don't go throughsomething more than once, have
you ever really developed thosetools?
Speaker 2 (05:39):
You.
This is the thing I now knowthat we all actually have tools
within us to.
Yes, it's a new experience, butwe have tools to handle the
chaos and we have tools to makeimportant decisions.
We have to make it from agrounded place.
(06:00):
If we can access, if someonecan guide us, if we can learn
how to access those tools.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
Right, that makes sense.
So we're literally like ifdivorce is the Home Depot and
we're trying to do a drywallrepair, but all the tools are in
the Home Depot, we just don'tknow which ones to use.
We need somebody like you orsomebody else to say, okay,
these are the tools, this iswhere you go buy them and this
(06:26):
is what you.
You know, this is how youimplement them and you know this
is a guy.
Analogy, right?
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Tools, that's a really good analogy.
Yeah, yeah, that's what it is.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Well, let's talk about that a little bit, then,
about how to take control ofyour divorce.
And you've to take control ofyour divorce, and you've, you've
, you've, you've identifiedthese tools or these, these five
different ways in in in whichyou can do that.
What's what's the, what's thefirst one, that that you need to
do?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah.
So there's Kristen and I'vekind of developed a methodology
and they're basically five, fiveshifts mental shifts that you
have to make to take control.
It can be very effective toallow you to take control of
your divorce, and the caveat tothis is that I'm really speaking
to well.
(07:15):
I'm speaking to any person atany stage in their journey, but
especially people in the firsthundred days of their divorce.
And the reason that that's soimportant is to catch them in
the early stage is because it'swhen you're emotionally so
charged right, whether it'sshame or anger or chaos or
(07:37):
confusion, it's really anemotionally charged period.
Yet in those first hundred daysyou're asked to make decisions
that are critical to both yourfinancial security and the
emotional security for you andyour children for years and
years to come.
So that's why, if you can get ahold of it early on, it can
really dramatically shape youroutcome.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
And when you say the first 100 days of your divorce,
you mean hundred days ofstarting the divorce process or
considering filing for divorce.
Speaker 2 (08:08):
It's clearly not a concrete definition of when it
starts, but basically, once youcross the line, you know we're
not really involved in savingmarriages or marriage counseling
and so forth, and I hopemarriages do survive.
But when you cross that lineand you know the divorce is
imminent, so either you've madethat emotional shift or you've
discussed it, or maybe youalready starting the divorce
(08:29):
process.
Um, but you know it takes awhile to get divorced.
The average divorce is is inthis country is 11 months and if
it goes to trial it's 18 monthsor longer.
So it's a long road ahead, butthe stage is set is set quite
early actually, because youstart with your initial, your
temporary agreement and it justbuilds from there.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Right, and I'd add because the majority of men are
the ones that are served withdivorce papers that that process
starts right there.
Right then, whether you'reaware of it and consciously
aware of it, that this is allgoing to start a whole cascading
effect of emotions and feelingsand all kinds of things that
are going to be happening,whether you want it to or not,
(09:15):
because you were just servedpapers.
Speaker 2 (09:17):
That's right, it is going to happen.
That train is moving Exactly,and that kind of is another
analogy is what we want to helpyou prevent is this runaway
train.
Yeah, your life feels like atrain wreck right now.
I mean, that's a very commonemotion, so Right.
So how?
What do we do?
All right, so the first, thefirst shift, is to view your
(09:41):
divorce as the opportunity of alifetime, is to view your
divorce as the opportunity of alifetime, and that seems
counterintuitive, because if youare in the thick of this chaos
and you feel like your life hasbeen ripped apart and your
dreams have just collapsed, thelast thing it looks like is an
opportunity.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Yes, I get that all the time right.
I say it's an opportunity, itcan be an opportunity.
And sometimes you get thatsplank stare like opportunities
are good, right, right.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
Ain't nothing good happening here my life Exactly,
but.
But you know, we've got somehindsight here, and the fact is
it is an opportunity, and it'snot just for the obvious reasons
.
It's an opportunity to rebuildyour life and get right things
that you didn't get right before.
(10:30):
And that's a lot deeper thanjust maybe choosing a different
partner, if that's what it feelslike it should be to you.
What it really means is gettingin touch with yourself and
taking accountability for yourrole, and that's a hard pill to
swallow for a lot of people,especially if they are the ones
(10:52):
that feel like divorce hashappened to them, like I mean.
There are many situations.
Maybe your spouse had an affair, maybe you felt dumped, maybe
who knows what it was, maybethey just fell out.
But if you're on the receivingend of that, you know it can be
hard to have to do that innerwork to see the role that you
(11:13):
played.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
It took me a long time, but I see it now, and so
let's, can we talk briefly aboutwhat you just said there, which
is divorce happening to you,because I find that interesting,
and I find interesting thatwhen I hear that from some of
(11:37):
the divorced dads going throughthat divorce is never going to
just happen to you, divorce isnever going to just happen to
you, that there's some dynamicthat has evolved in the marriage
(12:21):
and in the relationship thattook both, something that
happened, whether that's abetter marriage or parenting or
whatever it could be.
At least for me, it was anentire better life, right,
because the dynamic wasn't justexclusive to the, to the
marriage, it was permeatingthrough my entire life.
(12:42):
So talk about, talk about thata little more detail so we can
help, like some of the, some ofthe dads that are like this is
horrible, but like I do want tohave a better life and I want to
have.
If this is an opportunity Ireally want to, I want to seize
on it.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
You want to seize it.
It's a lot to grasp and it'sgoing to be a lot to grasp in
the short time that we have.
But it is very easy to feellike this.
This impending train of divorceis happening to you.
I felt like that way.
It's not what I wanted to seehappen.
I was, my life was literallyblown apart overnight and it was
(13:20):
like, oh my God, this is, thisis real, this is going to happen
.
This is happening to me.
But so there are two parts tothat.
One is that you, as in me,happened equally to get to this
end result.
Right, that's theaccountability part.
Go back in time and look at thered flags.
(13:45):
How many times did you notlisten to that inner voice which
is something I'll get to in aminute when maybe you swallowed
what you felt was really correctfor you in the name of, I don't
know, social appearances or thechildren, or not wanting to
(14:09):
rock the boat, whatever it maybe?
There are many reasons that westay into things that maybe we
shouldn't.
The other part, the other sideof happening to the divorce is
that you actually can havecontrol.
That's really what I want toempower our people to realize is
that they're going throughdivorce.
You can take a controllingposition in this and shape the
(14:31):
outcome and design the life thatyou want.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
That's really what it's about, so don't take it
passively Go ahead.
Well, and why is that important?
Well, I guess I got to getsincere.
To the next one.
Why is that important to takethat active role?
right, Because that's a hugepoint and I also want to say
(14:55):
that the points we're makinghere, bill's going to have an
opportunity and offer for youguys to be able to plug into
this and get more informationabout it.
So if you're taking notes or ifyou're like wanting to get more
, we'll have at the end of theshow, some more information for
you.
But why is that taking controlso incredibly important?
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Here's the setup If you don't take control to design
the life that you want, it willget designed anyway.
It's going to get designed byyour ex, by your lawyers, by
your family, by your friends, byyour children, none of whom
probably have your bestinterests at heart or know what
(15:39):
you really want, period.
So something's going to happen.
You will have a life that'sdesigned, but if you want it
designed by you, you have tostep up and be proactive about
it If you want to take commandof what your financial future is
going to look like, what yourrelationship with your children
is going to look like much less,of course, the logistics of
(16:02):
where you're going to live andall that sort of stuff, but even
the bigger picture.
What kind of a future loverelationship do you want to have
?
These things have to beconsidered, they have to be
actively thought about, becauseyou can control these and if you
don't as I said they will beyou'll get a result anyway.
(16:23):
It just won't be the one youwant.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Yes and they you don't.
As I said, they will be.
You'll get a result anyway.
It just won't be the one youwant.
Yes, and they all correlatetogether.
So the parenting plan that youcreate impacts your future
relationship.
It impacts the relationship youhave with your children.
It impacts the financialsituation that you have.
I mean, this impacts everythingthat you do.
So burying your head in thesand or just allowing your
attorney to determine what stockagreement they may have that
(16:57):
they use on 95% of cases is nota good plan for getting through
this process.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
And the attorneys in particular, and I have nothing
personal against attorneysexcept that I spend a lot of
time with them and paying them.
Right, yeah, and I can tell youthat however well-intended they
are, their agenda is verydifferent than yours.
Speaker 1 (17:19):
It is.
Speaker 2 (17:21):
They have a lot of knowledge.
I'm not saying you don't needattorneys you probably will but
you can manage them as well.
You can manage that outcome.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
Well, it is your job to manage them.
You are hiring them, and justlike you hire anybody else as a
team member or for a service oranything else, it is incumbent
upon you to be the one that is Icall it driving the bus.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
And so that actually is a good segue into shift
number two, which is to becomethe CEO of your divorce.
Speaker 1 (17:58):
Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
It's really taking charge of your team and what do
you do as a CEO?
You set the vision and the tone.
Okay, this is how I want toproceed, this is what I want for
my outcomes, this is how I wantto conduct myself and what's
your objective for the team.
And once you have clarity and,as I mentioned before, I'm not a
(18:23):
lawyer, I'm not a therapist,I'm not a child psychologist,
not a financial advisor you will.
You might need all of thosepeople.
They all serve a role, but youneed to be clear with them what
your goal is and what tone youwant to have through the divorce
Right.
So I want you to.
You know all the dads out there, so step up and start taking
(18:48):
control of this at an earlystage.
Even if it feels awkward rightnow, you do need to lead this
and if you do, you'll haveamazing results.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
Yeah, and for many listening, that may be a new
thing.
That may be a new thing.
They may not have been and thismay be have been a part of the
challenge in the dynamic and whythe dynamic was unsuccessful in
their, in their relationship,because they had not taken
control, they not led like, likethey may have needed to.
(19:33):
They're faced with this.
You know this very challengingtime that is going to determine
a good part of the next decade,maybe two decades of their lives
, and if there's no biggerwake-up call in your life than
right now, then you're going tobe stuck with an incredibly
difficult and challenging andpotentially unhappy life if you
don't step up now.
(19:54):
And that may be hard to do andthat may be scary, and there may
be all kinds of stuff going onin your mind as to what could
happen.
But now is the time to do it,because the impact is and, if
not for anybody other than yourkids, because it's going to
impact your kids too.
And I want to circle back towhat you said, which is your
(20:17):
kids, your parent or your kids,your family, um, your ex, any
none of them are thinking aboutyou first.
They're thinking aboutthemselves, and that's not a bad
thing.
That's just, that's just humannature.
Yeah, that's just human andthat's just.
That's okay.
But you need to be thinkingabout you and what your needs
are and how you move forward andhow you get clear on all that
(20:40):
and I think we're going to talka little bit about that too,
coming up here too, because thatis incredibly important.
But I just want to emphasizewhat you said, which is now's
the time.
Be the CEO, be the bus driverwhatever you want to call it Now
is the time You've got to stepup, get your head out of the
sand.
Hopefully this is a wake-upcall that it's time for you to,
(21:01):
at the very least, lead your ownlife.
Speaker 2 (21:04):
And the fact is it sounds like work to say that,
but it actually is joyful.
And I say joyful that may be anoverarch of the word, but when
you realize that you actuallyhave control to design something
in the future, that suddenlygives meaning to the whole
process.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
It kind of carries you through through yeah, yeah,
and, and so again, you and Ihave the um, uh, the pleasure,
if you will, of hindsight andbeing able to look at that and
say, yes, I can see that, uh,that this is a positive and this
is a good way to do it.
(21:45):
Now, I'm sure you did it a lotsmarter than I did.
Mine was like all throughmistakes and screwing itself up,
and everything else.
But you strike me a lot, a lotsmarter than me, but we at least
have I at least have thehindsight to say, yes, you can
do that.
You can through you know,through control and being able
(22:05):
to be proactive in this, designit how you want.
Speaker 2 (22:09):
I certainly, when I went through.
I don't think it has any morecapable or smarter or anything
else.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
I was blindsided, we all are, that's the thing, and
I'm setting you up for a salespitch here, just a mini one in
the middle here Like yeah, I'llwork out for you guys my five
shifts, you know, check out thewebinar.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Anyway, you guys my five shifts, you know.
Speaker 1 (22:28):
check out the webinar anyway, All right.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
So shift number three these all tied together is to
harness the power of yourintuition.
And now that sounds very woowoo to a lot of people,
especially a lot of guys, butit's not, and there's actually
(22:55):
science behind it.
You know, the brain emits anenergy field, right?
The heart emits an energy field, and the heart brain emits an
energy field 5,000 times aspowerful as as the brain does
itself.
How you feel, the energy thatyou put out is incredibly
(23:18):
powerful at influencing things.
But most importantly, whereintuition comes into play, is
that too many people, whenthey're going through divorce,
defer their higher self, theirinner guidance, to the experts,
to the lawyer, to your mother,to your father, to your brother,
(23:40):
to your friend, maybe to yourchildren yeah, there's only one
expert.
There's only one expert.
There's only one expert, andit's right here.
You know what you want and howit feels.
So when I say, tune in, youknow, harness the power of your
(24:01):
intuition what it really meansis okay, I've got a big decision
to make here.
You know, it's a custody issue,or it's a living arrangement,
or it's a financial arrangement.
It's a custody issue, or it's aliving arrangement, or it's a
financial arrangement.
How does that make you feel whenyou are considering option A or
B?
Sure, make the pros and conlists and check them off, but
(24:22):
then sit with it.
You know how does it feel?
Does one feel more expansive orconstricting?
Does one feel more expansive orconstricting?
Does one feel just more painful?
Does one feel aligned with yourvalues?
Does one feel in conflict?
(24:42):
It's not a natural thing.
It's something you have tocultivate.
But I promise you that theanswer is always there and if
you listen to your feelings, ifyou tune into that and you have
to get quiet and find solitudeto do that the answer will
emerge.
And the answer doesn't come toyou as obvious as an email that
(25:03):
says do this.
But sometimes you do get theselittle winks from the universe,
if you will, that kind ofreinforce your idea.
But it does come to you with asense of calm about the answer
and this is what guides you andI promise you, when you follow
your heart, it will never be thewrong answer.
Period Period there are nomistakes to be made.
(25:26):
That's why it's such a powerfulconcept.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
Absolutely, and that's the philosophy.
We talked about it on the showthat life is working for you,
not against you.
And so that's a and that's a,that's a.
Chat like that was an ahamoment for me in life in general
, but through this processparticularly, because it's so
incredibly challenging.
But again I have the hindsightof looking back and saying, oh
(25:53):
well, I see why that happenedthe way that it did and that's
led to something that's beenbetter and I can connect the
dots now.
So we're fortunate to have that.
But at least those of youlistening can can, if you can,
reframe and say there is no.
I love what you said.
(26:13):
There's, there are no baddecisions.
There's no negative decisions,there's just decisions, and it's
it's moving you in a directionthat you're supposed to go, for
whatever reason that might be.
And the other thing I want tosay is one of the words that I
like to use is does it make youfeel empowered?
That's it, that's really it yes.
(26:34):
Yeah, does it make?
So when you think about thedecision you want to make and if
everybody is telling you theopposite, trust if it makes you
feel empowered, because nobodyelse what you said is spot on.
Nobody else knows what is bestfor you, so everybody can tell
you the opposite.
(26:54):
But if it doesn't make you feelempowered, or all the other
ways that you described it, orhowever you want to get quiet
and you want to do this process,that, if it doesn't feel right
to you, don't do it.
Just trust your intuition.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
And I made mistakes going through, where I made
concessions to my ex for thewrong reasons.
Yeah, that didn't feel right tome, like I made concessions to
try and make her happy or thatit would ease the friction with
(27:30):
the kids and so forth.
Right, guess what Didn't?
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:36):
I just lost out financially Right.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I just gave away money which worsened my ability
to support my family over thelong, many years ahead.
You know what I'm saying.
This is why you've got tolisten to.
You really have to listen toyourself, so yeah, yeah,
absolutely, and, and.
Speaker 1 (27:56):
and I'll add you know there've been times where I've
done that and there have beentimes that I finally learned,
finally, after beating my headagainst the wall so many times,
to just trust it and had theattorney say I absolutely,
adamantly believe that youshould not do that, and I'd say
sorry, and then have it turn outand have my attorney say that's
(28:18):
not how I would have done it,but you are right and so it's
only.
It will be right for youbecause it is empowering to you
and, again, the attorneys you'rea segment of a part of their
day, of many people, and sothey're not tuned in to all of
what you are tuned into in yourlife, in your families, in your
(28:40):
children, in your ex and all theother experts and people that
you might have working on yourteam.
That's why you're the CEO.
So trust your intuition.
It's just like a coach that hasthe intuition to go for it on
the goal line, or a certainplayer to take that last second
shot, or whatever it is.
You're doing the exact samething, yeah.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
Yeah, that's exactly it.
It's just hard.
We're not taught to do it thisway.
We're not taught to considerourselves in this way, because
it's not tangible.
Speaker 1 (29:13):
It's not tangible and we're doing it through this
high pressure situation thatwe've never been in before.
It's not like we've practicedthis over and over again and
over and over and how to figureit out.
We might just be learning howto do this right now, which is
like what I was doing and it waslike a lot.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
And you know what, when you're paying lawyers 400,
$500 an hour, 300, whatever itis, it's a, it's a lot.
I'm not saying you, I'm notsaying dismiss them.
I'm saying, if you're payingthem, they have good information
, but just use it as that, useit as information, and then get
them off the payroll as quicklyas you can.
Amen.
(29:53):
Yes, my god, the system isrigged to bleed you.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
Yes, it really is.
Yeah, yeah, that's a wholenother podcast episode.
Yeah, all right, so the.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
The fourth, uh, the fourth shift is to choose you
first, and and you've used thisanalogy too, but it's like when
you're on the airline and theysay put the oxygen mask on you
first before you try and helpyour children and your neighbor,
or whatnot.
Absolutely true.
You have to fortify yourself inorder to be strong for this
(30:27):
journey, because if you don'tand it hits on a few self-care
is one of them If you don't takecare of yourself physically,
you're going to be anxietyridden, you're going to fall
into weight changes.
You may well deal with sleepdisorders during divorce because
it's so anxiety provoking.
You really have to take care ofyourself, provoking, right, you
(30:51):
really have to take care ofyourself, and it's too easy for
people, for parents, to fallinto the trap of subjugating
their needs for their childrenor for just dealing for the
lawyers for their family,whatever it is, and not saying
stepping back and going wait, Ifeel, I feel terrible, I feel
like shit, I'm not sleeping,whatever.
(31:12):
You know, I need to shore upmyself if I'm going to make
responsible decisions for mychildren.
Speaker 1 (31:20):
Yeah, it's absolutely , absolutely, absolutely
critical, and we talk on theshow about it being mental,
emotional, physical andspiritual, like a four-legged
stool, taking care of all ofthose parts, because they all
interact with each other.
And if you're not, no matterwhat your dynamic, if you've
(31:44):
maybe been the primarybreadwinner and you've been at
work and working all the timeand now you're shifting to have
to take care of kids, or theopposite, where you're not.
So, whatever it is, you stillhave to step back and focus,
because this is going to be awholesale change in your life.
So if you're making a wholesalechange anyway, you may as well
(32:06):
start with the foundation ofwhat is most important, which is
yourself.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Which is yourself.
Yeah, you want to be in agrounded position when you make
these decisions.
What does that mean?
Speaker 1 (32:19):
What does that mean?
Speaker 2 (32:21):
It means you're not emotionally charged, it means
that you're letting go, You'repausing.
If you were, I don't know.
I don't want to speak for allthe dads out there, but
certainly for many of them theymay be really angry at their ex
or soon-to-be ex.
Whatever happened, whatever thecircumstances are, whatever led
to it, they may be really bitter.
(32:42):
That is not a foundation formaking responsible choices for
your children.
It's just not.
Or you may feel really shameful.
You may have done something youfeel your children Right.
It's just not.
Or you may feel really shameful.
You may have done something youfeel terrible about Right, so
you're feeling weak and small.
That is not a good foundationfor making responsible decisions
for you and for your children.
(33:03):
It's just not.
So what grounded means?
It's taking a step back,anchoring again in your heart
what you want.
What are your values?
Step away from the emotion.
What is best for me, what isbest for my children, what's
best for the family in the longterm?
(33:24):
What's best for our finances inthe long term?
Not in the short-term?
And that's often a mistake,because divorce, in the scheme
of things, is a short-termprocess but it has long-term
consequences and there are twolayers of finances.
Right, you've got the cost ofdivorce, which are primarily
legal costs and court fees andadmin costs, and then you've got
(33:45):
the settlement costs, which arethe alimony or child support,
and you know that's the hugesetup.
Right there, there's so manyexpenses down the line Kids
going to private school orcollege or camps and everything
else down the line after divorcedust is settled.
This is what you're living with, right, so you know the
(34:11):
repercussions are huge on that.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
So grounding being grounded when you make these
decisions is what's important orframing this as an opportunity.
But man, we're going throughall this.
You've been off through thisthree kids.
This is a transition and we gotto work and we're still like
(34:37):
how in the heck do you do that?
I mean, how do you, how do youmanage all that?
Or where do you?
How do you figure it all out?
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Okay.
So there are certain things youstep back and you have to.
So, to get tactical about it,you have to write some things
down Like okay, how do I want toapproach my interaction with my
ex?
Okay, I'm mad as hell that shedid this or that or treated the
kids this way, or whatever itwas.
That she did this or that ortreated the kids this way, or
(35:13):
whatever it was, but for thesake of the kids, I resolve that
I'm not going to disparage herin front of the children.
Absolutely Right.
You know I'm making these up.
There'd be different foreverybody, sure.
And another huge one is truthtelling right.
As crazy as things may be foryou right now, you can anchor
yourself and say I resolve totell the truth and be honest
(35:34):
with my kids.
It's a value right, Because it'svery easy to not or to start
lying a little bit, or maybeit's a little white lie that
turns into a big lie, and thenthe thing is, if you don't tell
the truth to the kids, theycreate their own truth about it
and it may be far darker or moredivergent than the reality, and
(35:57):
that's very damaging.
And now truth telling I meanthat's a whole nother
conversation too, but it has tobe done in age appropriate bites
, right, absolutely.
They don't need to knoweverything that happened, but
they do need to know what it is.
That you tell them has to betruthful, right and something
you can build upon.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Right.
So those, those are good tips,but but how?
Like some of these, some ofthese tools need some
facilitation.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Let's have give me an example.
Give me I'll.
I'll try and respond to you.
Tell me something that could beout of control.
You can't get your hand around.
Speaker 1 (36:33):
Yeah, so what does my life look like as a single dad
of three kids, when I've beenworking all of the time, because
now I have 50-50 and I have noidea what to do?
Speaker 2 (36:49):
Okay, what would you like your life to look like?
Speaker 1 (36:55):
I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (36:58):
Okay, let's break it down.
That's a very broad question,so let's make it a little bit
more specific.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Because I've been working, I've been at the office
for our entire marriage and, um, now I have three kids 50% of
the time and I have to figureout how to get them to school
and like their appointments andwhat they eat and how they dress
and you know all all that stuff.
Like I don't even.
I don't even know how to thinkabout what that that looks like.
(37:25):
I don't know how to create thatvision of what I want it to
look like because I don't evenknow.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Okay.
So, going back to values, couldyou say, okay, I don't know how
to get the kids dressed.
I've never really done that,that's been her job, whatever
that.
Maybe that isn't so important,they will get dressed.
Okay, I'm not worried aboutthem going to school naked, so
let's just take a little weightoff that.
(37:53):
Okay, they will eat, so maybethey don't.
Maybe I don't have to haveeverything organized, you know,
in nice neat little boxes thenight before, or maybe I do.
Maybe that's the way I can havecontrol over this.
Okay, engage them in theprocess.
Okay, what steps?
So, right now, what you justdescribed is feeling out of
(38:15):
control, right Out of control.
I just don't know.
I'm out of control.
What steps can you do to bringcontrol back into it?
Okay, let's let's start withmealtime.
If that feels chaotic, let'sstart.
Let's start simple.
Okay, what can?
Can we do this together?
Can we involve the kidstogether?
Can we just say, okay, we willhave dinner together as a family
(38:38):
period, instead of it beingchaotic, because mom used to do
this and they used to be atsports and this and this and
this.
How can I do it differently tosimplify all this chaotic
nonsense that's going on?
right, okay um, when I don'tknow how I'm ever going to date
again or find love again orwhatever, how about I don't
(38:58):
worry about that right now, sure?
I'm going to just take that offthe table and let that evolve
when I'm ready to open my mindor my heart to that kind of
thinking.
So I don't need to stress aboutthat.
What I need to do is not tryand win the year or win the
divorce.
What I need to do is win theday.
What can I do to win the day?
(39:21):
Let's just focus on today.
Speaker 1 (39:23):
Yeah, good, I like that.
Speaker 2 (39:28):
That's it when you're blown apart.
You just got to break it downto a little win.
Can I make it to lunch?
Can I get them to school todayand make it to lunch and still
get to work and get that projectdone?
Can I do that?
I don't know what chaos tonightwill bring, but why don't we
all center and come together fordinner and then we'll divvy up
(39:48):
and see who needs to do whattomorrow and what can and can't
work period?
I'm not going to deal with allthe overwhelm right now because
I'm in the office.
We'll deal with it at the endof the workday.
Speaker 1 (40:00):
Right, and this is going to be, would you agree, a
process?
Right?
It's going to be a learningprocess.
It's a new thing, and withanything that's new, you might
need help, right?
Yes, I think it's the last year, like your last.
Speaker 2 (40:19):
That's the fifth shift, really is to get help and
what really you know.
Get coaching, get a mentor, getsomeone who has kind of been
through this and can guide you,and this is somebody different,
as I said, from your team.
This is not your.
I'm not saying therapist.
Therapy doesn't have a value.
Therapy is incredibly valuable.
(40:41):
It's different than coaching.
Yes, the coaching is like aSherpa.
It's like you need to climbthat mountain.
I'm going to hold your hand andhelp you take the steps you
need to get there.
You know, therapy is more likemy ankle hurts.
I can't climb that mountainright now.
(41:01):
Okay, the therapist is going tohelp you heal your ankle so
that you can take the next steps.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Right, exactly, yeah, the therapy is backwards,
looking, to get you to the pointwhere you're at, and coaching
is where you're at, in forwardlooking, where you want to be,
and both are incrediblyimportant but they're different,
but combined they can be very,very effective.
(41:28):
So if you've got a therapist,that's great, but if we're,
we're just we're we're justtalking about in the context of
overwhelm and challenges andgoing through this time where
you, where you don't know what'sgoing on, coaching is
completely, completely differentbecause it's going to help you
figure out where you want to getand clarify where you want to
(41:51):
get and how to get there.
Like we, like you just did amasterful job of breaking it
down.
You don't have to figure outdating and everything.
Like you need to figure out howyou're going to get meals for
tomorrow and that might be.
You do it together and it's assimple as that.
And then how do you do that?
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Then you realize that that works.
I can do that.
Okay, now I can tackle the next, the next thing, right, yeah,
absolutely it's, and coaching isvery outcome driven.
That's the thing, the therapyand I've been through plenty of
therapy and it has helped forcertain certain resolutions.
It's far less, it's moreprocess and less outcome driven,
(42:29):
and there's, there's value inthat.
But, yeah, so if I had somebodylike you or we're doing in my
life 18 years ago, things wouldhave been so different.
And I think that's why I wasdriven to this work right now,
because I felt completely alone.
(42:49):
And that's the irony Half ofthe marriages wind up in divorce
.
So there are so many peoplegoing through divorce millions
but you feel like you're theonly one.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
You feel like you're in a cave like you're the only
one and you don't know where tolook.
I mean, you know you've got tocall a lawyer at some point and
they tell you some informationand all this sort of stuff.
Someone who can guide youthrough is priceless and,
furthermore, you can put adollar value on it because they
can save you through the process.
Through following your heart,through limiting this train
(43:23):
wreck, this runaway train of adivorce, you can save a ton of
money, both in legal costs and,more importantly, in making the
right choices in terms ofsettlements that you might not
otherwise make.
Speaker 1 (43:38):
That might be a show that we do in the future to talk
about, because that's notsomething.
You know, what you justdescribed, and I think that
other people like yourself andmyself and others who have been
on the show get into this forheartfelt reasons, to want to
help people, because we wentthrough such pain and difficulty
(43:59):
and see that we now have theability to help mitigate some of
that.
And what you said was exactlyhow I felt like it's crazy,
right, all these people aregoing through it, but we all
feel alone and that's why we'vecreated the Divorced Advocate
Community so people can getplugged in and we don't we don't
self isolate that we're talkingwith other men and other men
are sharing and we do this inour, in our group coaching.
(44:22):
But but we I think it would beimportant at some point to talk
about this from a financialperspective and how beneficial
it is, because we I don't everyweek, almost every day I talk to
, uh, one of the dads isdecimated by a, a bad agreement.
(44:42):
Yes, that's that the that he gotinto for whatever reason, but
it is having an impact on hischildren because he's unable to
be the best dad he can becauseit is so onerous and difficult,
and this is happening all thetime.
So maybe that'll be somethingin the future that we can talk
about and maybe quantify,because I don't think folks like
(45:04):
us do that enough to put avalue, if you will, because I
don't think I don't think folkslike us do that enough to to put
a put a value, if you will,because I don't know about you,
I just don't think in thoseterms like putting, trying to
put a dollar value on it.
But I think it's important thatwe start talking about that a
little bit more.
I got off track with that but Ithink it's important.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
Well, it's an important.
I mean, look, money's the thingthat wears you down.
Many things wear you down, butyou'll get worn down by money
and divorce for sure it's just ahuge elephant that you've got
to work through in the process.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
Yeah, so well, bill.
Thank you so much.
It was.
This was phenomenal.
We could, like I said when wewere chatting before, we could
probably talk for a couple moreand but I think we should come
back and maybe revisit that andand have a show, uh, about the
financial benefits of havingsomebody guide you, or a coach
guide you through this processand taking control of your
(45:59):
divorce.
Where can the listeners connectwith uh, with you and get more
information on these, these fivesteps?
Speaker 2 (46:09):
So our program is called the best, best self
intuitive divorce program.
But if you go to best self, youknow like be your best self,
best self intuitive divorcecom.
Okay, that's it.
You go to that.
There's a landing page thattells you about us and invites
you to watch a masterclass thatkind of walks you through these
(46:29):
shifts, but in a more detailedand organized way so that you
feel really empowered by the endof it.
You know we offer freediscovery calls breakthrough
calls is what we call them withpotential clients to help them
(46:50):
really identify the trueproblems that they're facing and
the stakes that they're facingand give them a solution forward
.
So yeah.
Bestselfintuitivedivorcecom.
Speaker 1 (47:04):
Yeah, bestselfintuitivedivorcecom, and
it's free.
So I mean, at the very least,anybody who's listening is going
through this challenge.
Every I would say everybody hasgot to get on a free call with
somebody in those first hundreddays to talk with somebody and
not not just an attorney, acoach to get a global picture,
(47:24):
or like we were talking about,of what's going on and just even
if it's just pointing you in adirection that is going to help
you, if it's free, why would younot do it?
So go check it out and if youenjoyed what you heard today,
please share this far and wideon social media.
(47:44):
Share this far and wide onsocial media.
Leave us a review, give us alike, give us a star or leave
comments in whatever podcastplatform that you're listening
to, because our whole goal here,bill and Kristen and myself and
everybody else in thiscommunity who's trying to help
(48:04):
divorcing people or divorcingdads is to get this information
out, and this helps us immenselyby doing that.
Speaker 2 (48:12):
And it's so good to talk with you.
You know this kind ofconversation is it touchy-feely?
Is it woo-woo?
Maybe a little?
Yes, honestly, it's reallypractical.
It's really hardcore.
Practical.
This is about how you not onlysurvive, but thrive through the
process and beyond and setyourself up for a fantastic next
(48:33):
chapter.
That's what it's all about, sothank you.
Speaker 1 (48:37):
Thank you, bill, it was such a pleasure having you.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
Very good, till next time, take care.
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