June 2, 2025 • 32 mins
Divorced dads: Are you navigating the complex world of parenting plans? From holiday schedules to transportation logistics, our latest episode covers the essential components you need to address. Don't leave your custody arrangement to chance.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
Hello and welcome to the Divorced Dadvocate Divorce
Support for Dads, where we helpdads create a healthy and less
traumatic divorce.
My name is Jude Sandoval andI'm your host.
I created this podcast in theDivorced Advocate community as a
result of my own high conflictdivorce and because you, as a
dad, deserve all the resourcesnecessary to thrive through this
(00:39):
challenging time.
I encourage you to check outour website at
thedivorcedadvocatecom, wherethere are resources that
correspond to this episode, aswell as free access to our
membership community, where youwill find live meetings, free
workshops and courses, privatediscussion groups and more.
And now on to this week'sepisode.
(01:01):
Hello and welcome to the show.
I sincerely appreciate youbeing here today, and we've got
a great topic.
It is one that I realizedduring our group meeting this
morning that I had not recordeda podcast on it, and not exactly
sure why I missed this, butwe're going to be talking about
(01:21):
common questions about parentingplans.
We spent about half of ourmeeting this morning with the 12
guys on the call talking aboutthe different types of parenting
plans and how those impact eachand every different kind of
circumstance or each of theindividual guys', circumstances,
and so I wanted to share alittle bit more today about some
(01:44):
of those questions that came upin our group meeting and that I
hear on a regular basis.
Before we get into it, though,I do want to welcome some dads
to the community T Ilya, andy,bill, matt, tyler, dan, tony,
adam and Mark.
Welcome to the DivorcedAdvocate community, tony, adam
and Mark.
Welcome to the DivorcedAdvocate community.
(02:04):
If you are not part of thecommunity, go to
thedivorcedadvocatecom, click onthat membership and you can get
involved in the group meetingsthat we have, which are
fantastic.
Again, you hear me talkingabout surrounding yourself with
others, not self-isolating,during this, and it's a good
(02:24):
opportunity for you and theother dads that are going
through or have been throughdivorce to talk about what's
going on, share strategies,ideas and just be with others
that are going through some ofthe same challenging times.
So check that out atthedivorcedadvocatecom under the
membership tab, and also thedivorce quiz is still up there,
so check that out too.
(02:45):
It gives you a greatopportunity to see where you are
at in comparison to others whohave gone through divorce and
give you some immediate resultsthat you can look at and kind of
gauge how you're doing.
All right, let's talk about somecommon questions about
parenting plans.
Now, all right, let's talkabout some common questions
(03:07):
about parenting plans.
Now, one of the first questionsI get is oh, hey, do you have a
template?
Or hey, do you have a what'spretty standard for a parenting
plan?
And the answer to that isreally there is no single
standard parenting plan thatapplies to every situation,
because everybody'scircumstances are different,
(03:28):
every family is different, theenvironment is different,
people's jobs are different,people's interests are different
and the kids' extracurricularactivities are different.
There is no just one standardor typical parenting plan that
applies to all families.
Now, this is something to becognizant of when you're talking
(03:51):
to your attorney or hearingfrom your spouse's attorney,
also about well, this is justthe plan or this is just how
these plans work.
These plans can be, they can bechanged and they can be made to
suit and custom, tailored toexactly what your circumstances
(04:14):
are.
Now, obviously, you both haveto agree to that if you're going
to come into agreement and filethis with the court outside of
going to trial.
But these can be customized andyou can ask for different
things and you can ask fordifferent kinds of changes and
ways in which you want to dothis, and I've seen all kinds of
(04:39):
different things and all kindsof unique and creative ways in
which people have crafted thesein order to find a way in which
it works for their specificcircumstances and for their
families.
I guess the number one thing I'dsay is and I'm going to talk
about this maybe a little bitlater is just think about how
it's going to impact you.
The parenting plans are goingto impact the kiddos.
(05:00):
When you're doing that withinthe context of how effective and
how reasonable is it thatyou'll be able to execute it and
be able to have it be effectiveand good for all parties.
So there is a caveat to that.
You want to put the bestinterests of the kiddos first,
(05:22):
but if it makes absolutely nosense and it's going to be a
complete burden, absolutelyimpossible, to perform any of
the components of the parentingplan, then it's obviously
something that maybe you need tofight for a change or a
creative solution to.
So let's talk about some moreof that in a little bit of
(05:43):
detail.
But first I want to clarify andthis came up in our group
meeting this morning kind of themindset of the court and the
two-pronged approach in whichdivorce is executed.
One is the parenting plan andthey call it custody, call it
visitation In different placesyou'll hear it called different
(06:04):
things but that is basicallyaround the parenting time who
has parenting time, some of theadditional components that go
into the parenting time.
We're going to talk about someof those coming up here, and
then the other second part ofthat, or the alternative part of
that, is everything else thatis not the parenting plan, and
(06:29):
so that would include thingslike finances or splitting of
marital property and assets andstuff like that.
So the court's really going tobe looking at this in two
different lights One, theparenting plan and two,
everything else around that.
Most of us say finances orfinancially related stuff.
So we're talking about the onepart of this, which is the
(06:53):
parenting plan, and visitationor custody, allocation of
parental responsibilities, stufflike that.
So that is what I'm talkingabout with the parenting plan
here.
So, just so you understand,almost at least in the United
States here, almost every singlestate is going to be looking
for some sort of plan during adivorce.
(07:13):
So in order to issue a decreeof divorce, they're going to be
looking for some sort.
Now obviously only if you'remarried and you have kids, which
is all of you who are probablylistening right, they're going
to be looking for some sort ofparenting plan to be filed with
them so that they can approvethat.
And you know this is just goingto provide some stability and
(07:37):
well-being and some comfortlevel for the state when issuing
that, that there is a plan forwhat happens with the kids.
So that's why you're going tobe required to see that.
For those of you that arerequired to issue that to the
court and maybe answer somequestions around that to the
court, for the most part, if youare doing this yourself and
(07:58):
you're not working through anattorney, or even if you're
working through an attorneythat's just helping you to do
this, maybe in a collaborativedivorce circumstance, or maybe
you're working with a mediatorand you're submitting your plan
that the court will pretty muchagree to any plan that the two
of you have come to agreementwith, unless they see that this
(08:19):
is something that is going to bea circumstance that is
detrimental to the children.
And when I say detrimental, thecourts are going to be looking
for like severe, somethingsevere that could be detrimental
to the kids.
So you can be creative in howyou put this together and most
of the time, the courts aregoing to be agreeable to that
(08:39):
and approve the parenting planIf you are both coming to the
court saying yes, we both agreewith this, even though it's
unique or creative or somethingdifferent from what they see as
quote, unquote the normal typesof parenting plans that they may
see on a regular basis or aremore standard, so just know that
.
So let's talk about some of theelements that go into what I'd
(09:06):
say a standard, or some of thebasics that will go into a
parenting plan.
Some of these common componentsare the residential schedule
for the children this is wherethey're going to live and which
parent they're going to livewith and which parent they're
going to live with and thesecond part of that, which would
(09:32):
be the schedule for where theywill be living and which parent
they will be with.
So that's going to be reallythe basic one.
I know the first thing that youthink of, or that most people
think of, when they think of theparenting plan or the
allocation of parentalresponsibilities or visitation
or custody, whatever you call itin your area Is that that
residential schedule for thekids, where they're going to
(09:52):
live and what is the parentingtime for each of those, each of
those parents.
Now the parenting time I thinkwe've talked you talked.
We have talked in a previousepisode, so check that out, if
you haven't the episode aboutwhat is the right parenting time
(10:13):
plan for you and that can varyagain depending upon your
circumstances.
There's so many variables thatgo into it your work schedule,
your spouse's work schedule, howmany kids you have.
If they're older, what aretheir extracurricular activities
and how do you get them tothose activities.
There's just a myriad ofdifferent things that go into it
(10:36):
.
So that's why it's also reallyimportant to talk through that
with somebody, because some ofthese schedules we were talking
about a 2-2-3 schedule thismorning, which is that it's like
two for one two days for oneparent, two days for the other
parent, three days for the otherparent and then it goes back to
two and like that is reallyconfusing and can be very
challenging.
(10:57):
But there are some benefits toit, definitely for the kids
where they're not uh with one orthe other parent for too many
days, and it works particularlywell for younger kids that might
not do as well being away froma parent, say for five days or
for a week, if you're doing aweek on or a week off, so make
(11:17):
sure to run that by somebodythat can be a family therapist
or a kid's therapist.
It could be a divorce coach,the kids therapist.
It could be a divorce coach,which I would highly recommend
because they see all thedifferent variations of this.
It could be their pediatricianmight have some feedback around
that.
So just get some advice,because your attorney will have
(11:41):
kind of a stock idea, butthey're not ones making these
decisions.
They're just coming up withways in which you can come to
resolution, but they're notgoing to really focus in on and
talk about all the myriad ofdifferent things that are going
on with your life.
They will know generallyhopefully, if your attorney is
(12:01):
good, know, have a really goodworking understanding of a lot
of the dynamics in yourhousehold and with your families
, but they don't know everythingthat's going on and they
definitely are not taking theintimate time to know and learn
and understand.
And this isn't bashingattorneys, it's just that they
have a finite amount of timethat they have to work on it and
(12:22):
you're paying them for thatfinite amount of time and so if
you're spending time talkingwith them and working through
all of this, you're spendingmoney on what they're doing or
you're spending money on themand what they do best is the
legal system and helping youthrough the process.
So that's why I say find someother outside alternative
(12:43):
resource in addition to talkingto your attorney about this, to
work out what is the bestresidential schedule, parenting
time schedule for you and yourkiddos.
One of the next components thatis pretty common is a
visitation schedule for theholidays and vacations, or even
(13:05):
birthdays and anything else thatmight be important for you to
be with your kids or your spouseto be with the kids.
Make sure that you look at inspecific detail all of these,
and this is one of those oneswhere, if a holiday is important
to one person, not to the other, it's a good way in which you
(13:25):
can negotiate which holidays orwhich things you would like to
have the kids for, and whichones your soon-to-be ex will
have them as well.
One example for me was I liketo celebrate and do the
celebration of Christmas onChristmas Eve, on the 24th, so
we celebrate the evening beforeand then Christmas Day is just
(13:48):
really just about relaxing, etcetera, and my ex celebrates
Christmas on Christmas Day, andso it worked out well.
So I have most Christmas Evesor I try to, and she has time
during Christmas Day, and sothat's just an example.
(14:08):
And again, you can create thesecreatively to how it is best
for you and your family and yourkiddos creatively, to how it is
best for you and your familyand your kiddos.
And one of the things I'm goingto say now and I'm going to talk
about this well, I'll just sayit now is make sure to get into
specific detail about all ofthis stuff.
(14:29):
Actually, let me just I'm goingto stop here with some of these
common elements and say themore detail that you put into
these parenting plans, the lessconflict that you're going to
have or the other parent's goingto have, if you put it in
specific detail.
When I say specific detail,that means drop-off times,
(14:50):
pick-up times, what the holidayis and what that parenting time
looks like 5 o'clock on whateverday to 8 am on whatever day is
deemed as the holiday, and thatis the time on every other year
or odd number of years or evennumber of years or whatever.
Lot easier to work and loosenfrom and make arrangements from
(15:20):
something that's very specific,to agreeing to something
different, as opposed to arguingover what the intent of a
loosely written agreement is.
So be very specific.
That might seem like it's a lotof work, it might seem like
it's maybe even punitive, butit's not, trust me.
(15:41):
You are just going to behappier, but you're just going
to avoid lots and lots ofconflict, misunderstandings,
arguments and maybe even havingto go back to court to figure
some stuff out which you don'twant to do again.
Because getting through thisonce, if you can get through it
and make this as airtight aspossible, then you're going to
(16:01):
be much happier.
So, make sure, put it inspecific, specific, detail, and
you can always reach out to me.
One of the things we did withour group meeting this morning
is we shared some of us sharedthat have already gone through
it our respective parentingplans with some of the other
guys so that they have atemplate that they can go to
their attorneys with and take.
(16:22):
Every attorney is going to havekind of a boilerplate template
that they work with.
But you can get other ideas andother templates, and that's
kind of what we do in our groupmeetings, and so we shared
several of those with each otherthis morning too.
So and feel free to connectwith me if you have questions
about that.
I'm happy to share anyinformation or some of mine that
(16:44):
I found that worked well too.
Another component istransportation procedures for
the children.
That could be times that youare picking up, times that
you're dropping off.
Where you're picking up, whereyou're dropping off, who's
responsible for picking up anddropping off?
Who's responsible for thatafter holiday time, how that
(17:09):
resumes after holiday time.
Who is allowed to pick up anddrop off if there's a right of
first refusal to pick up anddrop off the kids all kinds of
stuff like that aroundtransportation procedures for
the kiddos.
Another one is the transitiondetails between visits, and then
(17:31):
this can include whether you'repicking up and dropping off
directly at the other person'shome, or that could be that it's
at daycare picking up anddropping off at daycare or at
school or at after school careor at a grandparent's or a
family member's house orwhatever it might be.
(17:53):
Again, have it in specificdetail of what these transitions
are going to look like, howthey're going to work.
I've seen some that are in likereal specific detail that they
park wherever that at a specificplace and the kids come out, or
they park at a specific placeat a specific time and they make
(18:15):
a call or send a text messageor a talking parents message, or
they ring the doorbell orwhatever.
You can do however you want.
However makes you mostcomfortable in arranging this.
Another component is child carearrangements.
So again, this would be aroundhow the kiddos are going to be
(18:36):
cared for if you're workingwhich we probably all are, or at
least most of us are is whatthose arrangements are going to
be during the respectiveparent's parenting time, because
we definitely want to make surethat there's proper care at all
times, obviously for the kiddos, but writing that specifically
(18:57):
in the agreement is incrediblyhelpful.
So that might be that you'reneeding to negotiate or figure
out and talk about what that'sgoing to look like with your
soon-to-be ex.
Is that going to be we're goingto have them in daycare and
they're going to stay in daycareuntil they're old enough to go
into school, and then, whenthey're in school, they'll have
after school care and they'll bein whatever it's called in your
(19:20):
area kids club or after schoolcare, extended school care or
whatever that might be.
Or is that a family memberthat's going to be responsible
for watching one of the kiddos,or are you going to hire a nanny
and have a nanny and that'sgoing to be part of the
agreement that you'll have care.
That's maybe a traveling nannythat goes in between the homes.
(19:41):
Again, this can be however youdecide to create it, but
specifically talk about it andget it into writing.
The next component can bevisitation with extended family
members.
Obviously, we do want to makesure that the kiddos have the
opportunity to be spending timewith their extended family and
(20:02):
their family members.
But with divorce comes all thisweirdness sometimes, and
sometimes there's people thatare having hurt feelings or
upset and whatnot, and so itmakes it a little more difficult
to arrange those.
So, having that stuff inspecific writing, particularly,
(20:22):
I think, probably with thefamily members maybe aunts and
uncles and grandparents thatthey're used to having a
relationship with and seeing ona regular basis, having that
stuff outlined in real, specificdetail as to what that
visitation can be like and whatthat contact with those family
(20:44):
members is like.
Another component could berules and restrictions on dating
partners for either one of theparents.
So, yeah, a lot of the time,many of us and you might not be
thinking about this now, whichis perfectly fine and probably
advisable, but starting to dateagain and starting to have
(21:06):
another romantic relationshipand romantic partner is
something that is hopefullygoing to happen in the future,
and then how does that gethandled between both parents?
And then how does that gethandled between both parents?
And thinking about that fromthe perspective of how would you
(21:27):
want to be treated if it'shappening on the other side is a
really good perspective fromwhich to guide your thought
process around this, and I knowthis is wrought with a lot of
feelings and a lot of emotions.
So talk with somebody about it.
Talk with somebody who maybehas gone through this, that is
divorced, that has had to dealwith that, particularly us guys
with other men around ourchildren.
(21:48):
I know that that can betriggering, no question about it
, it can be definitelytriggering.
And so having conversationswith other divorced dads about
how to best write in some rulesand restrictions around that for
yourself as well as yoursoon-to-be exes, would be really
, really critical, and it'llhelp you to just feel some level
(22:10):
of comfort, hopefully, indealing with that when it comes
up.
Dealing with that when it comesup, another component could be
what happens if one parent mustrelocate or wants to move.
(22:32):
You can have a process aroundthat, some language around just
generally moving, as like, ifsomebody's going to move, giving
notification about when that'sgoing to happen, a time frame
you can put some minimum timeframes in there 30 days notice
that we're going to be movingand I think that's really fair,
(22:55):
because oftentimes schooldistricts may change.
There's all kinds of differentconsiderations.
There's again the transitions,the pickups and drop-offs that
have to happen, and so beingable to plan and help the other
parent plan around that, ifthere is going to be a move or
even more than that, arelocation, that you have some
(23:19):
real specific language in theparenting plan about how that's
going to work out, how you'regoing to communicate that and
what that looks like.
Another component could bemethods to negotiate the changes
to the parenting plan.
Now, this is a great one thatyou definitely want to have and
I'm going to say absolutelypositively have something in
there, because you do not wantto be coming back to the court
(23:44):
every time that you need to makea change.
So some kind of agreement inthere that allows you to make
changes to the parenting planoutside of court, as long as you
both agree to things.
And so let say in writing thatyou're going to do something and
deviate from the originalparenting plan, and I highly
(24:07):
recommend that you have that besomething in writing that you
both agree to and maybe not somuch sign off on, but at least
you'll have an exchange ofsomething that you can document
to the court that you've bothagreed to deviate from the
original parenting plan butdefinitely put something in
there on how you're going to dothings, because, particularly if
(24:28):
you have younger kids, you wantto be able to or you're going
to have really you're going tohave to have some changes over a
period of time as life changesand evolves.
From the small, small kids tothe middle-aged kids you know
(24:51):
what I mean Going from thelittle kids all the way to the
teenagers.
There's going to be a bigchange in life and lifestyle and
you want to be able to havesome flexibility in negotiating
those changes in life andlifestyle and you want to be
able to have some flexibility innegotiating those changes in
the parenting plan.
Another one is methods tonegotiate disagreements, and
this is also a really importantone too, to keep you out of
(25:15):
court.
So hopefully you're going tocome to agreement if you're
listening to this and you havenot yet finalized your divorce.
You're going to come to anagreement outside of court.
You're not going to have to goto court and have the court make
the decision for you.
It's always a great idea if youcan come to some understanding
of maybe 85 or 90 percent ofwhere you feel comfortable to be
(25:39):
able to agree upon and not haveto go to court, because once
you go to court, you are justleaving this in the hands of
somebody that is literallyspending a few hours maybe
listening to your arguments andyour soon-to-be ex's arguments
and then making a very bigdecision about your family and
your family's future without aton of information.
(26:01):
Now, it's just the way thesystem is.
Again, it's not a knock onanybody that's in the system,
but they're doing their job tothe best of their abilities
within the constraints of thesystem.
I think the system sucks and Ithink it needs to be completely
revamped, but that's what we'restuck with right now, but that's
a whole different podcast.
So just make sure that you havea way in which you can negotiate
(26:22):
disagreements.
That could be mediation.
That can be binding mediation,which means whatever the
mediator says goes.
It can be a PCDM, which is aparental coordinator slash
decision maker that you bringsome of these disagreements to
and they will help you to eitherwork through them or they can
be the final decision maker onthose.
(26:45):
So there's different ways to dothat, but really really good
idea to do that and I've seenthis work really really well,
and then I've also seen whereit's not in the parenting plan.
It would be incredibly helpful.
So, if you have a high conflictdivorce, I highly highly
recommend considering this andlooking into this and figuring
(27:07):
out a way to get this languageinto your parenting plan.
It's going to help you avoidbeing in court and being with
attorneys and paying attorneysand being in front of judges and
going through all this headacheand stress and strife in the
family law court and allow youto be able to work through this
more autonomously, albeit withsomebody else that is going to
(27:30):
help make these decisions.
But it can just save you just alot of time and heartache and
definitely a lot of money.
Ok, so those are some of thereally standard kind of basic
things let's talk about now.
I mentioned about being detailedin your parenting plan and I
know, man, I've already spentalmost a half hour just talking
(27:52):
about some of the basic standardthings.
So I'm just gonna briefly gothrough some more stuff and I
know your head might be spinningright now going, oh my God,
like this, I didn't even thinkabout half of this, of this
stuff, and that's okay.
You and everybody else that hasgone through doors has not
thought about any of this stuffor all this stuff, and it's and
(28:13):
you're not going to get ahundred percent of everything
figured out in the parentingplan.
There is going to be somethingthat is different or unique
comes up in your life thatwasn't covered, and that's okay.
You're wanting, again, to getthis as close to being very
specific as you can possiblythink about.
So here's some other things toconsider.
(28:36):
Also, again, the more detailedyou are, the less conflict there
will be.
Consider also again, the moredetailed you are, the less
(28:57):
conflict there will be, andpotentially being very specific
about how that care is going tolook.
Or even if you're not in thatkind of situation but you want
to come to some sort ofagreement on medications and
what that's going to look likeas far as you do or don't
(29:18):
believe in vaccinations could beone of them or in giving
different over-the-countermedications to the kids or not.
You can get as detailed as thatin your parenting plan.
Another one would be maybespecial dietary standards If a
kiddo has some challenges maybearound diet or medically altered
(29:44):
diet because of medicalconditions or unique
circumstances, so you can putstuff in there that's specific,
agreed upon methods ofdiscipline on how you're going
to co-parent.
Hopefully you'll be able toco-parent and not have to
(30:05):
parallel parent.
If you don't know thedifference between co-parenting
and parallel parenting, go backin some of the episodes here and
check those out.
The difference is we've got atleast two or three episodes
about co-parenting versusparallel parenting and what the
differences are.
But if you can't effectivelyco-parent and you can't agree
(30:26):
upon a method of discipline,writing that in there is good as
well.
To hear the rest of thisepisode and access the
corresponding resources, visitthedivorcedadvocatecom and
become a member of our community.
It's free to join and we'llprovide you with the resources
you deserve as a divorced ordivorcing dad.
(30:46):
Thank you.
Hello and welcome to the Divorced Dadvocate Divorce
Support for Dads, where we helpdads create a healthy and less
traumatic divorce.
My name is Jude Sandoval andI'm your host.
I created this podcast in theDivorced Advocate community as a
result of my own high conflictdivorce and because you, as a
dad, deserve all the resourcesnecessary to thrive through this
(00:39):
challenging time.
I encourage you to check outour website at
thedivorcedadvocatecom, wherethere are resources that
correspond to this episode, aswell as free access to our
membership community, where youwill find live meetings, free
workshops and courses, privatediscussion groups and more.
And now on to this week'sepisode.
(01:01):
Hello and welcome to the show.
I sincerely appreciate youbeing here today, and we've got
a great topic.
It is one that I realizedduring our group meeting this
morning that I had not recordeda podcast on it, and not exactly
sure why I missed this, butwe're going to be talking about
(01:21):
common questions about parentingplans.
We spent about half of ourmeeting this morning with the 12
guys on the call talking aboutthe different types of parenting
plans and how those impact eachand every different kind of
circumstance or each of theindividual guys', circumstances,
and so I wanted to share alittle bit more today about some
(01:44):
of those questions that came upin our group meeting and that I
hear on a regular basis.
Before we get into it, though,I do want to welcome some dads
to the community T Ilya, andy,bill, matt, tyler, dan, tony,
adam and Mark.
Welcome to the DivorcedAdvocate community, tony, adam
and Mark.
Welcome to the DivorcedAdvocate community.
(02:04):
If you are not part of thecommunity, go to
thedivorcedadvocatecom, click onthat membership and you can get
involved in the group meetingsthat we have, which are
fantastic.
Again, you hear me talkingabout surrounding yourself with
others, not self-isolating,during this, and it's a good
(02:24):
opportunity for you and theother dads that are going
through or have been throughdivorce to talk about what's
going on, share strategies,ideas and just be with others
that are going through some ofthe same challenging times.
So check that out atthedivorcedadvocatecom under the
membership tab, and also thedivorce quiz is still up there,
so check that out too.
(02:45):
It gives you a greatopportunity to see where you are
at in comparison to others whohave gone through divorce and
give you some immediate resultsthat you can look at and kind of
gauge how you're doing.
All right, let's talk about somecommon questions about
parenting plans.
Now, all right, let's talkabout some common questions
(03:07):
about parenting plans.
Now, one of the first questionsI get is oh, hey, do you have a
template?
Or hey, do you have a what'spretty standard for a parenting
plan?
And the answer to that isreally there is no single
standard parenting plan thatapplies to every situation,
because everybody'scircumstances are different,
(03:28):
every family is different, theenvironment is different,
people's jobs are different,people's interests are different
and the kids' extracurricularactivities are different.
There is no just one standardor typical parenting plan that
applies to all families.
Now, this is something to becognizant of when you're talking
(03:51):
to your attorney or hearingfrom your spouse's attorney,
also about well, this is justthe plan or this is just how
these plans work.
These plans can be, they can bechanged and they can be made to
suit and custom, tailored toexactly what your circumstances
(04:14):
are.
Now, obviously, you both haveto agree to that if you're going
to come into agreement and filethis with the court outside of
going to trial.
But these can be customized andyou can ask for different
things and you can ask fordifferent kinds of changes and
ways in which you want to dothis, and I've seen all kinds of
(04:39):
different things and all kindsof unique and creative ways in
which people have crafted thesein order to find a way in which
it works for their specificcircumstances and for their
families.
I guess the number one thing I'dsay is and I'm going to talk
about this maybe a little bitlater is just think about how
it's going to impact you.
The parenting plans are goingto impact the kiddos.
(05:00):
When you're doing that withinthe context of how effective and
how reasonable is it thatyou'll be able to execute it and
be able to have it be effectiveand good for all parties.
So there is a caveat to that.
You want to put the bestinterests of the kiddos first,
(05:22):
but if it makes absolutely nosense and it's going to be a
complete burden, absolutelyimpossible, to perform any of
the components of the parentingplan, then it's obviously
something that maybe you need tofight for a change or a
creative solution to.
So let's talk about some moreof that in a little bit of
(05:43):
detail.
But first I want to clarify andthis came up in our group
meeting this morning kind of themindset of the court and the
two-pronged approach in whichdivorce is executed.
One is the parenting plan andthey call it custody, call it
visitation In different placesyou'll hear it called different
(06:04):
things but that is basicallyaround the parenting time who
has parenting time, some of theadditional components that go
into the parenting time.
We're going to talk about someof those coming up here, and
then the other second part ofthat, or the alternative part of
that, is everything else thatis not the parenting plan, and
(06:29):
so that would include thingslike finances or splitting of
marital property and assets andstuff like that.
So the court's really going tobe looking at this in two
different lights One, theparenting plan and two,
everything else around that.
Most of us say finances orfinancially related stuff.
So we're talking about the onepart of this, which is the
(06:53):
parenting plan, and visitationor custody, allocation of
parental responsibilities, stufflike that.
So that is what I'm talkingabout with the parenting plan
here.
So, just so you understand,almost at least in the United
States here, almost every singlestate is going to be looking
for some sort of plan during adivorce.
(07:13):
So in order to issue a decreeof divorce, they're going to be
looking for some sort.
Now obviously only if you'remarried and you have kids, which
is all of you who are probablylistening right, they're going
to be looking for some sort ofparenting plan to be filed with
them so that they can approvethat.
And you know this is just goingto provide some stability and
(07:37):
well-being and some comfortlevel for the state when issuing
that, that there is a plan forwhat happens with the kids.
So that's why you're going tobe required to see that.
For those of you that arerequired to issue that to the
court and maybe answer somequestions around that to the
court, for the most part, if youare doing this yourself and
(07:58):
you're not working through anattorney, or even if you're
working through an attorneythat's just helping you to do
this, maybe in a collaborativedivorce circumstance, or maybe
you're working with a mediatorand you're submitting your plan
that the court will pretty muchagree to any plan that the two
of you have come to agreementwith, unless they see that this
(08:19):
is something that is going to bea circumstance that is
detrimental to the children.
And when I say detrimental, thecourts are going to be looking
for like severe, somethingsevere that could be detrimental
to the kids.
So you can be creative in howyou put this together and most
of the time, the courts aregoing to be agreeable to that
(08:39):
and approve the parenting planIf you are both coming to the
court saying yes, we both agreewith this, even though it's
unique or creative or somethingdifferent from what they see as
quote, unquote the normal typesof parenting plans that they may
see on a regular basis or aremore standard, so just know that
.
So let's talk about some of theelements that go into what I'd
(09:06):
say a standard, or some of thebasics that will go into a
parenting plan.
Some of these common componentsare the residential schedule
for the children this is wherethey're going to live and which
parent they're going to livewith and which parent they're
going to live with and thesecond part of that, which would
(09:32):
be the schedule for where theywill be living and which parent
they will be with.
So that's going to be reallythe basic one.
I know the first thing that youthink of, or that most people
think of, when they think of theparenting plan or the
allocation of parentalresponsibilities or visitation
or custody, whatever you call itin your area Is that that
residential schedule for thekids, where they're going to
(09:52):
live and what is the parentingtime for each of those, each of
those parents.
Now the parenting time I thinkwe've talked you talked.
We have talked in a previousepisode, so check that out, if
you haven't the episode aboutwhat is the right parenting time
(10:13):
plan for you and that can varyagain depending upon your
circumstances.
There's so many variables thatgo into it your work schedule,
your spouse's work schedule, howmany kids you have.
If they're older, what aretheir extracurricular activities
and how do you get them tothose activities.
There's just a myriad ofdifferent things that go into it
(10:36):
.
So that's why it's also reallyimportant to talk through that
with somebody, because some ofthese schedules we were talking
about a 2-2-3 schedule thismorning, which is that it's like
two for one two days for oneparent, two days for the other
parent, three days for the otherparent and then it goes back to
two and like that is reallyconfusing and can be very
challenging.
(10:57):
But there are some benefits toit, definitely for the kids
where they're not uh with one orthe other parent for too many
days, and it works particularlywell for younger kids that might
not do as well being away froma parent, say for five days or
for a week, if you're doing aweek on or a week off, so make
(11:17):
sure to run that by somebodythat can be a family therapist
or a kid's therapist.
It could be a divorce coach,the kids therapist.
It could be a divorce coach,which I would highly recommend
because they see all thedifferent variations of this.
It could be their pediatricianmight have some feedback around
that.
So just get some advice,because your attorney will have
(11:41):
kind of a stock idea, butthey're not ones making these
decisions.
They're just coming up withways in which you can come to
resolution, but they're notgoing to really focus in on and
talk about all the myriad ofdifferent things that are going
on with your life.
They will know generallyhopefully, if your attorney is
(12:01):
good, know, have a really goodworking understanding of a lot
of the dynamics in yourhousehold and with your families
, but they don't know everythingthat's going on and they
definitely are not taking theintimate time to know and learn
and understand.
And this isn't bashingattorneys, it's just that they
have a finite amount of timethat they have to work on it and
(12:22):
you're paying them for thatfinite amount of time and so if
you're spending time talkingwith them and working through
all of this, you're spendingmoney on what they're doing or
you're spending money on themand what they do best is the
legal system and helping youthrough the process.
So that's why I say find someother outside alternative
(12:43):
resource in addition to talkingto your attorney about this, to
work out what is the bestresidential schedule, parenting
time schedule for you and yourkiddos.
One of the next components thatis pretty common is a
visitation schedule for theholidays and vacations, or even
(13:05):
birthdays and anything else thatmight be important for you to
be with your kids or your spouseto be with the kids.
Make sure that you look at inspecific detail all of these,
and this is one of those oneswhere, if a holiday is important
to one person, not to the other, it's a good way in which you
(13:25):
can negotiate which holidays orwhich things you would like to
have the kids for, and whichones your soon-to-be ex will
have them as well.
One example for me was I liketo celebrate and do the
celebration of Christmas onChristmas Eve, on the 24th, so
we celebrate the evening beforeand then Christmas Day is just
(13:48):
really just about relaxing, etcetera, and my ex celebrates
Christmas on Christmas Day, andso it worked out well.
So I have most Christmas Evesor I try to, and she has time
during Christmas Day, and sothat's just an example.
(14:08):
And again, you can create thesecreatively to how it is best
for you and your family and yourkiddos creatively, to how it is
best for you and your familyand your kiddos.
And one of the things I'm goingto say now and I'm going to talk
about this well, I'll just sayit now is make sure to get into
specific detail about all ofthis stuff.
(14:29):
Actually, let me just I'm goingto stop here with some of these
common elements and say themore detail that you put into
these parenting plans, the lessconflict that you're going to
have or the other parent's goingto have, if you put it in
specific detail.
When I say specific detail,that means drop-off times,
(14:50):
pick-up times, what the holidayis and what that parenting time
looks like 5 o'clock on whateverday to 8 am on whatever day is
deemed as the holiday, and thatis the time on every other year
or odd number of years or evennumber of years or whatever.
Lot easier to work and loosenfrom and make arrangements from
(15:20):
something that's very specific,to agreeing to something
different, as opposed to arguingover what the intent of a
loosely written agreement is.
So be very specific.
That might seem like it's a lotof work, it might seem like
it's maybe even punitive, butit's not, trust me.
(15:41):
You are just going to behappier, but you're just going
to avoid lots and lots ofconflict, misunderstandings,
arguments and maybe even havingto go back to court to figure
some stuff out which you don'twant to do again.
Because getting through thisonce, if you can get through it
and make this as airtight aspossible, then you're going to
(16:01):
be much happier.
So, make sure, put it inspecific, specific, detail, and
you can always reach out to me.
One of the things we did withour group meeting this morning
is we shared some of us sharedthat have already gone through
it our respective parentingplans with some of the other
guys so that they have atemplate that they can go to
their attorneys with and take.
(16:22):
Every attorney is going to havekind of a boilerplate template
that they work with.
But you can get other ideas andother templates, and that's
kind of what we do in our groupmeetings, and so we shared
several of those with each otherthis morning too.
So and feel free to connectwith me if you have questions
about that.
I'm happy to share anyinformation or some of mine that
(16:44):
I found that worked well too.
Another component istransportation procedures for
the children.
That could be times that youare picking up, times that
you're dropping off.
Where you're picking up, whereyou're dropping off, who's
responsible for picking up anddropping off?
Who's responsible for thatafter holiday time, how that
(17:09):
resumes after holiday time.
Who is allowed to pick up anddrop off if there's a right of
first refusal to pick up anddrop off the kids all kinds of
stuff like that aroundtransportation procedures for
the kiddos.
Another one is the transitiondetails between visits, and then
(17:31):
this can include whether you'repicking up and dropping off
directly at the other person'shome, or that could be that it's
at daycare picking up anddropping off at daycare or at
school or at after school careor at a grandparent's or a
family member's house orwhatever it might be.
(17:53):
Again, have it in specificdetail of what these transitions
are going to look like, howthey're going to work.
I've seen some that are in likereal specific detail that they
park wherever that at a specificplace and the kids come out, or
they park at a specific placeat a specific time and they make
(18:15):
a call or send a text messageor a talking parents message, or
they ring the doorbell orwhatever.
You can do however you want.
However makes you mostcomfortable in arranging this.
Another component is child carearrangements.
So again, this would be aroundhow the kiddos are going to be
(18:36):
cared for if you're workingwhich we probably all are, or at
least most of us are is whatthose arrangements are going to
be during the respectiveparent's parenting time, because
we definitely want to make surethat there's proper care at all
times, obviously for the kiddos, but writing that specifically
(18:57):
in the agreement is incrediblyhelpful.
So that might be that you'reneeding to negotiate or figure
out and talk about what that'sgoing to look like with your
soon-to-be ex.
Is that going to be we're goingto have them in daycare and
they're going to stay in daycareuntil they're old enough to go
into school, and then, whenthey're in school, they'll have
after school care and they'll bein whatever it's called in your
(19:20):
area kids club or after schoolcare, extended school care or
whatever that might be.
Or is that a family memberthat's going to be responsible
for watching one of the kiddos,or are you going to hire a nanny
and have a nanny and that'sgoing to be part of the
agreement that you'll have care.
That's maybe a traveling nannythat goes in between the homes.
(19:41):
Again, this can be however youdecide to create it, but
specifically talk about it andget it into writing.
The next component can bevisitation with extended family
members.
Obviously, we do want to makesure that the kiddos have the
opportunity to be spending timewith their extended family and
(20:02):
their family members.
But with divorce comes all thisweirdness sometimes, and
sometimes there's people thatare having hurt feelings or
upset and whatnot, and so itmakes it a little more difficult
to arrange those.
So, having that stuff inspecific writing, particularly,
(20:22):
I think, probably with thefamily members maybe aunts and
uncles and grandparents thatthey're used to having a
relationship with and seeing ona regular basis, having that
stuff outlined in real, specificdetail as to what that
visitation can be like and whatthat contact with those family
(20:44):
members is like.
Another component could berules and restrictions on dating
partners for either one of theparents.
So, yeah, a lot of the time,many of us and you might not be
thinking about this now, whichis perfectly fine and probably
advisable, but starting to dateagain and starting to have
(21:06):
another romantic relationshipand romantic partner is
something that is hopefullygoing to happen in the future,
and then how does that gethandled between both parents?
And then how does that gethandled between both parents?
And thinking about that fromthe perspective of how would you
(21:27):
want to be treated if it'shappening on the other side is a
really good perspective fromwhich to guide your thought
process around this, and I knowthis is wrought with a lot of
feelings and a lot of emotions.
So talk with somebody about it.
Talk with somebody who maybehas gone through this, that is
divorced, that has had to dealwith that, particularly us guys
with other men around ourchildren.
(21:48):
I know that that can betriggering, no question about it
, it can be definitelytriggering.
And so having conversationswith other divorced dads about
how to best write in some rulesand restrictions around that for
yourself as well as yoursoon-to-be exes, would be really
, really critical, and it'llhelp you to just feel some level
(22:10):
of comfort, hopefully, indealing with that when it comes
up.
Dealing with that when it comesup, another component could be
what happens if one parent mustrelocate or wants to move.
(22:32):
You can have a process aroundthat, some language around just
generally moving, as like, ifsomebody's going to move, giving
notification about when that'sgoing to happen, a time frame
you can put some minimum timeframes in there 30 days notice
that we're going to be movingand I think that's really fair,
(22:55):
because oftentimes schooldistricts may change.
There's all kinds of differentconsiderations.
There's again the transitions,the pickups and drop-offs that
have to happen, and so beingable to plan and help the other
parent plan around that, ifthere is going to be a move or
even more than that, arelocation, that you have some
(23:19):
real specific language in theparenting plan about how that's
going to work out, how you'regoing to communicate that and
what that looks like.
Another component could bemethods to negotiate the changes
to the parenting plan.
Now, this is a great one thatyou definitely want to have and
I'm going to say absolutelypositively have something in
there, because you do not wantto be coming back to the court
(23:44):
every time that you need to makea change.
So some kind of agreement inthere that allows you to make
changes to the parenting planoutside of court, as long as you
both agree to things.
And so let say in writing thatyou're going to do something and
deviate from the originalparenting plan, and I highly
(24:07):
recommend that you have that besomething in writing that you
both agree to and maybe not somuch sign off on, but at least
you'll have an exchange ofsomething that you can document
to the court that you've bothagreed to deviate from the
original parenting plan butdefinitely put something in
there on how you're going to dothings, because, particularly if
(24:28):
you have younger kids, you wantto be able to or you're going
to have really you're going tohave to have some changes over a
period of time as life changesand evolves.
From the small, small kids tothe middle-aged kids you know
(24:51):
what I mean Going from thelittle kids all the way to the
teenagers.
There's going to be a bigchange in life and lifestyle and
you want to be able to havesome flexibility in negotiating
those changes in life andlifestyle and you want to be
able to have some flexibility innegotiating those changes in
the parenting plan.
Another one is methods tonegotiate disagreements, and
this is also a really importantone too, to keep you out of
(25:15):
court.
So hopefully you're going tocome to agreement if you're
listening to this and you havenot yet finalized your divorce.
You're going to come to anagreement outside of court.
You're not going to have to goto court and have the court make
the decision for you.
It's always a great idea if youcan come to some understanding
of maybe 85 or 90 percent ofwhere you feel comfortable to be
(25:39):
able to agree upon and not haveto go to court, because once
you go to court, you are justleaving this in the hands of
somebody that is literallyspending a few hours maybe
listening to your arguments andyour soon-to-be ex's arguments
and then making a very bigdecision about your family and
your family's future without aton of information.
(26:01):
Now, it's just the way thesystem is.
Again, it's not a knock onanybody that's in the system,
but they're doing their job tothe best of their abilities
within the constraints of thesystem.
I think the system sucks and Ithink it needs to be completely
revamped, but that's what we'restuck with right now, but that's
a whole different podcast.
So just make sure that you havea way in which you can negotiate
(26:22):
disagreements.
That could be mediation.
That can be binding mediation,which means whatever the
mediator says goes.
It can be a PCDM, which is aparental coordinator slash
decision maker that you bringsome of these disagreements to
and they will help you to eitherwork through them or they can
be the final decision maker onthose.
(26:45):
So there's different ways to dothat, but really really good
idea to do that and I've seenthis work really really well,
and then I've also seen whereit's not in the parenting plan.
It would be incredibly helpful.
So, if you have a high conflictdivorce, I highly highly
recommend considering this andlooking into this and figuring
(27:07):
out a way to get this languageinto your parenting plan.
It's going to help you avoidbeing in court and being with
attorneys and paying attorneysand being in front of judges and
going through all this headacheand stress and strife in the
family law court and allow youto be able to work through this
more autonomously, albeit withsomebody else that is going to
(27:30):
help make these decisions.
But it can just save you just alot of time and heartache and
definitely a lot of money.
Ok, so those are some of thereally standard kind of basic
things let's talk about now.
I mentioned about being detailedin your parenting plan and I
know, man, I've already spentalmost a half hour just talking
(27:52):
about some of the basic standardthings.
So I'm just gonna briefly gothrough some more stuff and I
know your head might be spinningright now going, oh my God,
like this, I didn't even thinkabout half of this, of this
stuff, and that's okay.
You and everybody else that hasgone through doors has not
thought about any of this stuffor all this stuff, and it's and
(28:13):
you're not going to get ahundred percent of everything
figured out in the parentingplan.
There is going to be somethingthat is different or unique
comes up in your life thatwasn't covered, and that's okay.
You're wanting, again, to getthis as close to being very
specific as you can possiblythink about.
So here's some other things toconsider.
(28:36):
Also, again, the more detailedyou are, the less conflict there
will be.
Consider also again, the moredetailed you are, the less
(28:57):
conflict there will be, andpotentially being very specific
about how that care is going tolook.
Or even if you're not in thatkind of situation but you want
to come to some sort ofagreement on medications and
what that's going to look likeas far as you do or don't
(29:18):
believe in vaccinations could beone of them or in giving
different over-the-countermedications to the kids or not.
You can get as detailed as thatin your parenting plan.
Another one would be maybespecial dietary standards If a
kiddo has some challenges maybearound diet or medically altered
(29:44):
diet because of medicalconditions or unique
circumstances, so you can putstuff in there that's specific,
agreed upon methods ofdiscipline on how you're going
to co-parent.
Hopefully you'll be able toco-parent and not have to
(30:05):
parallel parent.
If you don't know thedifference between co-parenting
and parallel parenting, go backin some of the episodes here and
check those out.
The difference is we've got atleast two or three episodes
about co-parenting versusparallel parenting and what the
differences are.
But if you can't effectivelyco-parent and you can't agree
(30:26):
upon a method of discipline,writing that in there is good as
well.
To hear the rest of thisepisode and access the
corresponding resources, visitthedivorcedadvocatecom and
become a member of our community.
It's free to join and we'llprovide you with the resources
you deserve as a divorced ordivorcing dad.
(30:46):
Thank you.
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