August 4, 2025 • 53 mins
Mortgage assumptions after divorce could save you hundreds of thousands of dollars, yet most attorneys and divorcing homeowners don't understand how to make them work. In this eye-opening conversation, Certified Divorce Lending Professional Karla Kyte reveals the hidden mortgage opportunities many divorces miss.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello and welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for tuning inthis week and we've got an
excellent topic probably a veryunderserved topic for sure that
has probably one of the greatestimpacts on everybody who goes
through divorce and that may, infact, not even be known by most
(00:23):
people the impact that theyexperience in going through this
and this topic of assumptionstoday and just basically divorce
mortgage as well.
So before I get to introduceour guest today, I just wanted
to welcome Michael to theDivorced Advocate community.
If you're not part of thecommunity, check it out at the
the Divorced Advocate community.
(00:44):
If you're not part of thecommunity, check it out at
thedivorcedadvocatecom.
Wherever you're at in divorce,whatever your resources, we have
something there for you.
And also just a reminder keepthis podcast free.
If you own a business thattakes credit cards or you know
of a business that takes creditcards, please refer them here to
me at jude at thedivorcedadvocatecom.
(01:07):
We can save them some money andwe can continue to help finance
our non-profit that keeps thisshow going and helps other dads
that are in need.
Okay, my guest today, carla Kite, is a certified divorce lending
professional who believesdeeply in the power of home
ownership.
After going through her owndivorce, carla realized that
(01:29):
staying in her home was onlypossible because of her mortgage
lending expertise and carefulplanning.
That experience sparked hermission to help others navigate
the financial and emotionalchallenges of divorce without
losing the roof over their heads.
Carla founded my DivorceMortgage Planning to guide
divorcing couples through one oflife's toughest transitions.
(01:52):
With years of experience inresidential mortgage lending,
she works to ensure separationagreements are written smartly
that is huge properly addressingsupport payments, debt
obligations and every detailthat impacts home ownership.
She also educates attorneys,realtors and collaborates with
other experts nationwide, makingher a true leader in the field
(02:15):
of divorce mortgage planning.
Welcome to the show, carla.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Thank you, thanks for having me on today.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
My pleasure.
Hey, we got to meet.
Was it last week already?
No, and we had a greatconversation and we're going to
be talking about assumptionsspecifically, and how to go
through the assumption process,something that's very, very,
that can be very complex andcomplicated but can have a huge,
huge impact.
(02:42):
But before we jump into thattopic, share just a little bit
with the audience about what gotyou into niching divorce and
divorce mortgages.
I know you talk a little bitabout your divorce, but why the
shift?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yeah.
So you know, through my wholelending career I was constantly
frustrated with people callingme, asking if I could help them
to refinance, and then only tofind out that they were not set
up properly in the settlementagreement.
And I said for years, why don'tattorneys reach out to us
before they put something inwriting that their client can't
(03:19):
actually execute?
And I didn't know anythingabout the CDL piece that stands
for Certified Divorce LendingProfessional.
I didn't know anything aboutthe CDL piece that stands for
certified divorce lendingprofessional.
I didn't know anything aboutthat certification.
And I actually expressed, youknow, that same feeling to a
mediator who I met in anetworking group and she said,
well, do you have your CDLP?
And I was like what in the heckis that?
(03:40):
I didn't even know what it was.
So when I discovered what thecertification was, I honestly
thought you know, I'll go andget this silly certification and
then maybe I'll get someattorneys to work with me.
And you know, I can work thisas another.
You know like little, you knowside hustle to my business,
right.
And then when I did this, Iflew down to Arizona, took the
(04:01):
certification class and it was awhole lot of I didn't know what
I didn't know in this space.
I had never thought of actuallyopening a practice where I was
consulting and helping people tocome up with settlement
agreements that actually work.
Like, how do we finally get infront of attorneys, attorneys,
(04:22):
so they really listen to us andset these people up properly?
Because there's so and I can'tsave everybody, I can't save the
homeownership for everyone, but, man, there's a lot of cases
where it's just a couple oftweaks here or there, you know,
or swapping out one thing foranother in terms of an asset or
(04:43):
maintenance, or something likethat, that can help keep both
people in homeownership, whichtoday is very difficult with the
cost of housing and theinterest rates.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
It's a completely different story today, yeah, and
so let's talk a little bitabout that because, like I
alluded to in the intro, lots ofpeople have no idea that some
of the things that they can doand the literally tens or
hundreds of thousands of dollarsthat they can save going
through this process primarilybecause of what you described,
(05:20):
which is attorneys don't evenknow this.
You didn't know this, I didn'tknow this.
I didn't know this.
When I went through my divorce12 years ago and I'm in the
business too right, I wasselling real estate as well.
So there's just not a whole lotof education out there around
this, and the first person thatmost people go to are attorneys,
(05:42):
and attorneys are probably theones that ignore this the most,
because they're trying to getyou through the legal process.
We're not going to go down thatroad with the attorneys, but
they've got their focus on wherethey want to go and how they
want to get this done.
But the ones that do buy intothis and do want to get their
(06:03):
clients with somebody that'sgoing to do their finances pay
attention to that do theirmortgages, sell their real
estate.
Hopefully, mental, emotionalhelp, et cetera just is a
service that is amazing fordivorcees going through this
Because, look, it's a simplemath equation we talk about it
all the time right, onehousehold into two means there's
(06:24):
going to be more expenses.
Your living, your environmentand your living is going to be
different.
So if you can minimize thatimpact as much as possible, not
only for yourself but for yourkiddos, man, what an amazing
life 2.0 you can have.
(06:45):
And it's a shame that attorneysdon't.
It's not one of the, becausethis is like the large one of
the, probably the largest assetfor the majority of people that
are going through divorce andlike we've talked about it and
we're not going to lament thefact that the first thing they
should be doing is like you goget a coach and then you get a
mortgage planner, and you get afinancial planner and you get a
therapist.
Right, that should be the nextthing you do after you hire an
(07:07):
attorney, and the attorneyshould be telling their clients
that.
But let's dive into it, becauseyou mentioned the agreements
and like temporary agreementsand stuff.
So take us through a little bitabout why that's important and
how it can benefit somebodythat's going through the divorce
(07:31):
and either wants to assumewe're going to talk mostly about
assumptions and how to do thatprocess, but it kind of all
works together in gettingqualified for the assumption as
well if you want to qualify forpurchasing something after.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Exactly so.
First of all, I think thebiggest problem is when somebody
hires an attorney or maybe inthe state of Colorado they could
use an LLP or any kind ofdivorce professional.
They're looking to that personto guide them through the whole
entire process, looking to thatperson to guide them through the
(08:07):
whole entire process.
Here's the problem.
Almost all attorneys say reachout to your lender, call your
lender right.
And so clients either calltheir lender that helped them
buy the home or they call theirservicer, the person that
they're paying their mortgage to.
Right now, those are notcertified divorce lending
professionals.
Okay, so that's the first stepis getting to a CDLP.
(08:28):
The second step is getting to aCDLP that actually runs a
fee-based business.
That will look very objectivelyat your case and help you
figure out the best path to moveforward, because if you're
working, with.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
I want to stop on that because, being in the
industry, I know a little bitmore and I want to make that
point that you just made, whichis somebody that's feed-based.
And the reason you and I'm justgoing to save you because you
probably won't say it, but Iwill say it the reason for that
is because there are multitudeof ways that mortgage lenders
(09:03):
can make money on the back endof your mortgage.
So if they are only looking tomake the maximum amount of money
, it's not necessarily going tobe in your best interest.
And that's not to say, that'snot to slam any mortgage lenders
or anything like that, butthere are, like there's bad
actors everywhere, right?
So if you find somebody likeCarla that's gonna talk to you
(09:26):
upfront and charge you to createa plan for this, then hopefully
you're gonna use Carla right,and you should, because she
really knows how to get throughit, but you're gonna have a plan
that is the best plan for you,not a plan that might be it's
gonna be good for you, but it'sgonna be really good for you,
but it's going to be really goodfor the lender, right, because
(09:47):
they're going to maybe make alot more money on that.
So I just wanted to point thatout.
That is a huge, huge point thatI think that is unknown out
there.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yeah, so Sorry continue.
No, that's fine.
If they call their servicer ortheir past loan officer.
They're just going to talk theminto a refinance because they
don't make a dime unless theyactually do a loan for you.
If they call a CDLP, you mightget a little bit of a mixed bag,
but if they're not charging youanything, understand that the
(10:18):
only way that they are going toever make money off of you is if
they get you to do a loan withthem, right.
Make money off of you is ifthey get you to do a loan with
them, right.
So really it is in your bestinterest to go with a fee-based
CDLP that's going to look atyour case objectively, because a
lot of people are in these verylow rate mortgages that we're
going to talk about.
You know, doing an assumptionand it might make the best sense
(10:41):
for you to do an assumption,and I will preface that, and now
we're going to get into this.
It doesn't always make sense todo an assumption in the case of
a divorce.
So that's the first thing is youknow attorneys and divorce
professionals.
They don't know what they don'tknow when they're saying call
your lender like they need to bemore specific and call somebody
(11:04):
who's really going to help youthrough this process, you know.
So when I bring somebody in asa new client, I look at how they
qualify today without havingany support or paying out any
support.
What does your qualificationlook like right now?
And then as we get further intothe divorce and we figure out
who's going to get what andwho's paying who how much, then
(11:31):
we can take those pieces andmove them around and figure out
what's the best path forward.
And people will hire me oftenas a couple and I will work for
both of them and I will givethem both the best advice that I
can give them for them both toremain in homeownership.
If I'm only working with oneclient, I will be their advocate
and I will figure out whateverway I can to keep them in
homeownership.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
So when is it a good idea to do an assumption and
when is it a bad idea to do anassumption?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Yeah, so this is very .
Speaker 1 (12:04):
And let's define what an assumption is first versus
what a refi is and what theirother options are.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Okay, so let me start with this.
Okay, so let me start with this.
(12:32):
During COVID, our rates gotextremely low and almost
everybody I know refinanced intoa new mortgage during COVID.
I would say the majority ofthose people refinanced into a
Fannie Mae or a Freddie Mac loan.
Okay, on the closing disclosureand this is a big giveaway that
I'm giving in this right Inthis podcast, this is huge On
your closing disclosure, whenyou did that refinance or when
you purchased during those lowrate years, your closing
disclosure clearly stated thatthis loan is not assumable.
(12:53):
Okay, so these loans are notassumable.
So if people just go straightto their documents, they're
going to read that and they'regoing to think, ah, I can't
assume this loan from my exspouse anyway.
But Fannie Mae and Freddie Macboth have a clause that states
if you're going through adivorce, they will allow for
what's called a release ofliability.
(13:13):
So those loans are notassumable in the sense that if
you put that home on the marketand a third party wanted to buy
your house from you, they can'tassume that loan at the current
rate.
But if you're going through adivorce, you can release your
spouse of the liability on thatmortgage, but you have to go
(13:34):
through an entirerequalification process, just
like you did when you refinancedyour purchase.
Okay, and you have to do thatwith the servicer.
And here's the problem.
A lot of people, when theyrefinanced their purchase, they
left one person off of the loan.
So like, let's say, bob andJane own a home together.
(13:55):
Bob and Jane might both be ontitle, but maybe only Bob is on
the mortgage.
If Jane is keeping the home,she can ask the servicer if they
will do a release of liabilityand allow her to take over that
loan.
But you've got to think aboutthat.
That's not really a release ofliability.
That's adding Jane on andremoving Bob.
(14:17):
So at that point it's a lenderdiscretion call.
At that point you just have toask have I seen it happen?
Yes, I have.
I've seen it happen with my owneyes, so it's possible.
You have to ask the rightquestions.
When you call the servicer,don't ask if your loan is
assumable.
Ask if they will allow for arelease of liability and if they
(14:40):
will release your spouse thatis not staying in the home.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah.
Well and yeah, well, and I wantto say when you call, hopefully
you've already talked to Carla,right, because if you call, the
call might go like this no,it's not assumable.
Thanks for calling, goodbye,right, like they're not going to
look into the details of yourloan for you on the phone.
(15:04):
Because, frankly, there'slittle, there's very little
incentive for them to do that.
Right, and do you want to talkabout that?
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, there's very little incentive.
Of course they don't want tokeep the loan on the records and
it's not even necessarily thatthey want to redo a new loan for
you they would love that, butmore so they just kind of want
that low rate mortgage off thebooks, right.
So there is no incentive thereand they don't make assumptions
easy.
So like where I come in andwhere I help people with the
(15:37):
divorce mortgage planning pieceis we look at that and we look
to see can Bob qualify to keepthat mortgage without Jane?
And this is where it getsreally tricky for me and I have
to give a big disclaimer whenI'm working with clients, I can
only do this to the best of myability.
I don't work for your servicer.
(15:59):
I'm not the one that's going tomake that final call on whether
or not it will be approved ornot.
I know typically what they'relooking for in terms of
guidelines.
It's typically what's called amanual underwrite.
So I think the thing thatpeople need to be really careful
of is that as a lender, I coulddo a loan for you at a very
(16:20):
different qualification thanwhat you're going to go through
under this release of liabilityor assumption, whatever you want
to call it.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Right.
So what you're saying is therecould be different criteria by
which the servicer is going tomake that determination.
It might actually be easier foryou to qualify to get a new
loan than to assume it.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
The criteria to do an assumption in the case of a
divorce release of liability.
That's kind of interchangeable.
The criteria is it's moredifficult, it's tighter
guidelines.
They want lower and why is thatso when you do?
I don't know why they're notrunning it through the automated
(17:11):
system, but they're running allof these as manual underwrite.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
And let's just clarify what manual underwrite.
And let's just clarify whatmanual underwrite.
Manual underwrite means thatthe file's actually going to an
underwriter, they're taking alook at it, they're scrutinizing
it, they're asking youquestions coming back, as
opposed to automated, which isan automated system that it kind
of just gives the, you put inall the parameters and then it
gives you an approval and thenprovide the documentation in it.
(17:37):
As long as the documentationsupports what you put into the
system, you're good.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Yes, that's a pretty yes.
Yes, because there still is ahuman underwriter that checks
all of that documentation.
But what automated underwritingallows for is like it looks at
the whole file and if you havereally good credit and you have
lots of assets, it will let youexceed the guidelines for debt
(18:05):
ratio.
So like if the debt ratioguideline is 45, automated
underwriting often lets us go to49.9 as long as you have decent
credit and a couple extra bucksin the bank.
Often lets us go to 49.9 aslong as you have decent credit
and a couple extra bucks in thebank.
When you're doing these releaseof liability or assumptions, you
(18:25):
are held hard at 45% and that'sjust the back-end debt ratio.
That's not even working at thefront-end.
So the investor might also havea requirement for the front-end
debt ratio.
So your front end is just yourhousing to the income.
Your back end debt ratio isyour housing and all of your
monthly debt to your income.
So they are going to be lookingat this just under much
(18:51):
stricter guidelines.
So you have to be prepared forthat guidelines.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
You have to be prepared for that, and so, then,
what makes it so important totalk to somebody like you is,
then, in structuring a temporaryagreement or a post-snap, that
there are ways in which you canensure not ensure, but position
them to be better able toqualify for that assumption
(19:20):
right.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yeah, I mean, I literally have people every week
that make agreements that theycan't execute and so, like the
one that just came to mind, sheagreed to assume the loan and
she never even checked to seewhat she would look like on
paper.
And she owns an insuranceagency and she is technically
(19:44):
self-employed and she comesnowhere close to qualifying for
anything, let alone to assumethis mortgage from her ex.
And she's in an agreement whereshe has to get this assumption
done in six months.
Or there's always that verbiage, or if you can't make this
(20:06):
happen, you got to sell yourhouse, right.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
No, she's going to have no choice.
She's going to have to sell herhouse.
I asked her if she has aco-signer so we can do like a
refinance instead.
But she's hemming and hawingbecause she wants to hold on to
that low rate and I get it, butit's not going to happen.
Like there is no way under thesun that she will qualify to
assume that current loan.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Right and let's and let's talk about that a little
bit because some of the thethings that are necessary to to
qualify are the same as if youwould be qualifying
independently.
However, there's timelines thatare different here, like with
income and things that you cancount towards income, say
(20:52):
spousal support, et cetera thatif you have this written into
your agreement, that then ithelps you because it starts to
clock sooner.
So let's say, your divorce takesnine months right, I think
that's a fair timeframe nine to12 months and you put in
something in your agreementlet's talk a little bit about
(21:13):
this and how you can do that Putsomething in your agreement
that allows you to thendemonstrate to the servicer or
the bank that you then have thisand then also, depending upon
what happens at your finalorders, that that's going to go
for a period of time that isenough to allow you to qualify.
(21:35):
I just said that in generalterms because I want you to dial
into a little more granulararound that, because, no, I
don't think anybody knows orunderstands this.
Part of it is you've got todemonstrate income and that you
you know the, the spousalsupport, whichever way or
whatever you're using, can bedone, whichever way or whatever
(21:56):
you're using can be done can beutilized for that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
So if you are the person receiving support and
different loan types havedifferent requirements, and so
I'm going to go back toassumptions here in just a
minute.
This is just a generalqualifying requirement for
income.
So for a conventional loanFannie Mae, Freddie Mac and most
jumbo loans you have to havereceived the support for six
months on time, and then it hasto continue for three years
(22:23):
after the date of closing on theloan or the refinance or the
assumption whatever.
For an FHA loan, you only needthree months.
Receipt Still has to continuefor three years.
Okay, three months.
Receipt still has to continuefor three years, Okay.
So when you're negotiatingsupport, like if you do anything
less than I mean, if you'regetting support for three years,
it's not going to help you asingle bit, Right, and so like
(22:47):
something you could do there, ifyou're getting 10 grand a month
for three years, that's notgoing to help you at all.
But maybe you lower that toeight grand a month and stretch
it out for a few more years andthen you've got qualifying
income to help you there.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
So that's where talking to somebody like you can
help in the negotiations, andparticularly if the couple is
doing this and is amicable andcan talk about hey, let's do
this, let's try this.
Maybe there's an asset that Igive you or we trade, an asset
that offsets whatever this isand you can set yourself up both
(23:24):
of you up for successpost-divorce.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Yes, 100%, and I've absolutely helped couples figure
that out.
So one of the things you weretalking about was temporary
orders, I think.
So that's really important too,and a lot of attorneys don't
want to get into temporaryorders.
But there's different thingswith temporary orders.
(23:48):
The reason I want temporaryorders is because it starts that
clock ticking right.
If we need six months and threemonths or whatever for us to
count temporary orders to getthat clock ticking right.
If we need six months and threemonths or whatever for us to
count temporary orders to getthat clock ticking for
qualifying income, we have tohave a court order in place and
the payment has to be made froman individual account to an
individual account.
So Bob and Jane can't have ajoint account that's paying Jane
(24:13):
her support every month it hasto come from Bob to Jane.
Court order has to be in placeand then we can start counting
that for that three months orsix months, whatever timeframe
we need.
Now if they go to theirattorney and they say I need to
get temporary support put inplace because I need to start
counting for my mortgage, andthe attorney is like, oh my God,
(24:34):
no, that's really costly, blah,blah, blah, I will tell you
this If you guys are amicable,this is not costly.
It's simply a stipulation andit's very easy to execute.
It's very easy to get intoplace.
If you're not amicable, youprobably won't get it.
And it's a and it is a big bigthing, right?
So that's very different.
(24:55):
But talking about just amicableclients, this is something easy
to get into place.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
So yeah, and for those listening, I just wanted
to.
It's called different things indifferent places.
Temporary orders is that it'syour temporary agreement while
you're going through the divorceprocess to your final final
orders or or or whatever youknow if you're going to trial
and then you get file orders.
So what it does, is it it?
It?
(25:21):
It separates everything, bothcategories financial, what's
happening, who's paying what,what's a spousal support might
be more like all of that stuff,and then also it will it will
determine what parenting time is, et cetera, and all that.
So basically it's a temporarysetup and agreement, but there
(25:42):
are myriads of reasons that itis beneficial.
Sometimes it's not, but for themost part I feel like it can be
a positive for a myriad ofreasons, but specifically and
most importantly for thefinancial piece of it, with the
mortgage lending in particular,because then, like you said, and
I'm just going to reiteratethat then when those temporary
(26:07):
orders are executed and let'ssay there's spousal support,
that's happening, then that thatthen starts that timeline,
instead of waiting the ninemonths or the 12 months until
the divorce is finalized andthen it gives and then you might
have to be waiting Well,depending on where you're
(26:27):
getting the loan right Threemonths, six months, whatever it
might be in order to count thatincome, so you're just able to
get things going faster.
It makes it so much easier.
You can potentially reduce oreliminate the need to do a
double move right To movesomewhere temporarily before you
(26:47):
can qualify for anotherproperty and then move again.
That makes the transition somuch easier on your kiddos.
So by doing this, by doing thetemporary order, by having it
structured very clearly, thenyou're just putting yourself way
, way ahead of the curve andgetting all this stuff done and
getting all your life settled.
(27:08):
So continue.
I just want to clarify some ofthat.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Well, the bills are getting paid anyway.
Well, hopefully, right, I guesssome cases they're not, but in
most cases the bills are stillgetting paid.
All we're doing is a littleshift of money so that we can
start counting income for thatperson that needs it, and I mean
, this is incredibly importantto the stay-at-home parent, and
(27:32):
that could be stay-at-home momor stay-at-home dad.
My situation at my house is myhusband's been a stay at home
dad for years, so, like for himto continue on and be able to
purchase anything or be able tokeep the home, I would have to
put temporary orders in place sothat by the time we finalize,
he's in a place that he can moveon, right?
(27:54):
So, yeah, and it doesn't.
The temporary order doesn'thave to match the permanent
order Exactly.
It needs to be in the ballpark,like you might have temporary
orders at four grand a month andthen when they go permanent,
they're 4,500.
That's okay, we just want to seethat one payment of permanent
support and then we'll countthat 4,500.
So I wanted to talk reallyquick is difficult and if you
(28:23):
need support to help you qualifyfor an assumption, then you're
possibly pushed out even further.
But I want to tell you everyservicer is different on this
and so I've seen some servicersjust run with the court order
and not have that six monthreceipt requirement, which is
very strange to me, becausethere's no way under the Senate
(28:49):
ever be able to do that forsomebody if I was doing a
refinance or a purchase for them.
We have to show this receipt.
So when you're doing anassumption it could look
something like this If you don'tput a temporary order in place
and we go through the process tosee if you qualify, we know you
don't qualify.
You need that support to qualify.
(29:10):
Let's say that you're notamicable, so temporary orders is
not even an option, right?
So then at the time of finaldecree, which is usually when
the investors will allow you tostart that assumption process,
they usually won't allow you tostart before you have final
decree.
So you get final decree andthen you need to show six months
of support to qualify.
(29:31):
So then you don't qualify foranother six months, then you
submit right and then theassumption process I always tell
everybody can take like six toeight months.
So in your settlement agreementyou have to make sure that
you're allowed the time that youneed to get this process done,
because if you need support toqualify you might have to wait
(29:53):
that six months.
Some of them won't make youwait, but they're not going to
communicate this with you beforeeither.
So your settlement agreementhas to be really specific on
this.
Especially if you're notamicable, you need to make sure
that the attorneys and thejudges understand the timeline
that you're up against if you'retrying to salvage this interest
(30:17):
rate and do an assumption.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Right, and that would be at least 12 months.
I would say and I think this isprobably the number one thing I
see all the time which is okay,you have six months to do it,
and it's just not feasible,right, like I get guys all the
time that are oh well, and thenif they have somebody that's not
(30:40):
agreeable they're taking themback for contempt If they don't
have it done in six months andthen you're spending more money
and you're arguing more, like itbecomes a big giant nightmare.
So at least 12 months, really18 months, because, like you
said, if you need the six monthsto qualify, then you need like
(31:01):
12 months to deal with theservicers and just know you're
going to be on the phone withthem nonstop.
You're going to be calling them, it is, you're following up
with them.
Again, they have no incentive.
Just think of it as that you'reworking with somebody that has
no incentive to do this.
If there's something on theirdesk, or literally, if it's
lunchtime or it's to do yourservicing, they're going to eat
(31:25):
lunch, right.
There's just no incentivewhatsoever.
So the longer you put this out,the better.
Let's talk for a quick secondabout, let's say, you are the
breadwinner, if you will andyou're going to be the one
paying spousal support and childsupport.
Paying spousal support andchild support, then if you have
(31:47):
the temporary orders in place,does that help?
If you're doing that, does thatstart the timeline the same for
them as it would if they werereceiving it, or do they still
have to wait until final ordersand then know exactly what that
(32:07):
dollar amount is going to be?
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Okay, so you're the main income earner and you're
going to be paying the supportand you're keeping the house and
you want to assume the loan.
Is that the case, correct, okay?
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
So temporary orders really has no impact here in
that case, because they can'tstart the assumption process
until they have final decreeanyway and the permanent orders
will be part of that.
So there's no impact.
Temporary orders has no impacton that at all.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Okay.
So for the dads listening, ifthey're going to be paying
spousal support, child support,then this isn't going to have an
impact for them, but it willhave an impact on their soon to
be ex.
So that if you guys are amicableand you're able to communicate,
you can say hey look, we wantto be, we want you to be in a
(33:01):
good position, so we need to getthese temporary orders in place
.
So I'm going to assume, I'mgoing to assume the place, but
we want you to be able toqualify for something, let's say
when, when we're done, so thatthere's a there's a smoother
transition to either moving outor finding a new play, whatever
it might be.
So let's get this set up andstarted.
(33:22):
And then you know this is whileI'm working on the assumption
and doing that you can befinding your mortgage broker,
you can be looking for homes,you can start that process
knowing relatively confidentlythat you're going to be able to
qualify for something.
Once you know, provided theyhave all the regular income
(33:43):
requirements, they have a joblike, the job is seasoned enough
, they've had it for long, etcetera, right, all the same
things that they would bequalifying for, but at least
they are able to count thisincome Correct.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yep absolutely.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Okay, got it.
So how about some tips I justalluded to it in dealing with?
So they're going to be workingwith you, but in their work with
you, you're the coach, right,Like you're not the one
executing this, You're the coach, they're the quarterback, right
.
They're going to have to bedealing with servicers.
Give us some tips on how todeal with servicers and how to
(34:21):
talk to them.
How often to call them?
Do you bug them?
Do you blow up their emails anddo what do you do with these
servicers that have little to nointerest in really helping you?
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Yeah, so unfortunately the servicer
dictates the communication.
And just to be really clear, sowhen I do divorce mortgage
planning with couples, they canretain me for the planning piece
and I help them get set up forthis.
If they want to also hire me toexecute the assumption, I will
(34:52):
help them with the facilitationof the assumption.
So I will be there to kind ofcoach them through it.
I will help them with thepaperwork and all of that.
And those are two separatethings.
But, believe it or not, thereare some servicers out there
that will only deal with you viasnail mail.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
No joke.
Well, I'm not surprised.
I've been in the business longenough, so that doesn't surprise
me.
But it might surprise everybodyelse that's listening Sure.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Yeah, I mean, is that not the craziest thing in?
Speaker 1 (35:22):
this thing.
It's insane.
Yeah, we should just be faxingthem too, right?
Speaker 2 (35:26):
craziest thing in this thing.
Yeah, we should just be faxingthem too, right?
Yeah, to me it's just.
Let's just poke you a littlebit more and see if you really
want to go through this process,right, um, so, but not all of
them, I think, and I can'tremember who it is right now,
but somebody has actually goneto an online application, which
was shocking.
That was a client I talked tolast month, and so they really
dictate that process.
(35:47):
Most of them will say, once yousubmit everything to me, and
like I will, I'll call out Chasereally quick because I think
they've done a decent job at theassumptions.
They're very clear Do not, donot submit this until your final
decree.
You got to have that in handand then we're going to work
(36:08):
with you and I think, in allfairness, the reason that they
are not interested in doinganything before is because
things change during the courseof the divorce process.
Things are negotiated outdifferently, so what you might
think is going to happen mightnot be what actually happens.
So why are we going to wasteour time on this?
There is a fee for goingthrough an assumption.
I've not seen anything over$2,000.
(36:31):
So just expect that from theinvestor, but they make you wait
until your divorce is final andthen you submit everything to
them and then what they say isonce we've received all of your
documents, we get 45 days andthen we'll get back to you
within 45 days.
So if they're communicatingwith you over email, that's
(36:54):
fantastic.
They're not big at talking onthe phone.
Reason why is because you knowwhen you're doing assumption,
when you did your loan, when youdid your refinance, you had
somebody like me, you had a loanofficer.
Whether you were working with abank or a broker or whatever,
you had a loan officer that wasbasically holding your hand
(37:16):
through the process and gettingyou through this.
I mean, we don't get paid ifyou don't close, so we have a
huge incentive to get you tothat finish line.
When you're doing an assumption,there's nobody in your corner
that is gunning for you Like itis not a thing, and so you don't
have any help.
So I also don't think thatthese services that are doing
(37:39):
this they don't they don't havethe people to to necessarily
handle this Like assumptionshave not been a thing since the
eighties.
Okay, like it just hasn't.
So the assumption departmentswith the services are thin, and
probably the people that theyhave in there that are fielding
any phone calls or doing theemails.
(38:01):
They're probably entry-levelpeople, right?
So they probably don't have anymortgage knowledge.
The underwriters who areactually signing off on these
and approving these?
Well, I don't know.
Have you ever talked to anunderwriter?
No, because that's our job aslenders.
We handle that between you andthe underwriter, right?
(38:21):
Underwriters are notconsumer-facing people, so I
think there's a bit of abreakdown there, right.
Underwriters are not consumerfacing people, so I think
there's just a there's a bit ofa breakdown there, right.
So, like they're going to,they're going to set the,
they're going to set how theywant to communicate and how they
will communicate with you.
Hopefully it's at least email.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Okay.
So so you're not, you're notlikely to be able to get
somebody on the phone.
The person you do get on thephone and the 1-800 number is
going to give you limited to noinformation.
So that's why it's incumbentupon you to be able to find your
loan docs.
First, look at your loan docs.
If you can't understand orfigure out what it says, what
(39:01):
you can and can't do in yourloan docs and then, when you do
call them, that you may or maynot get the right answer based
upon that.
That's why it's incrediblyimportant to take it to somebody
like Carla and say, hey, here'smy loan docs, let's talk about
this.
Is this something that I can do?
That's just the very start ofthe process, because then, after
(39:26):
Carla puts the plan togetherfor you, you can take it and
execute it on your own if youwant, or you can work with her.
I highly recommend working withher because you do not want to
have to be doing this on yourown.
This is from somebody that'sdone loans, so I used to be a
lender too right, and it ishighly complex.
(39:47):
It is highly frustrating.
There is so many things that goon during this process that it
is money well worth it.
And look, here's the fact ofthe matter.
You are saving, over the lifeof your loan, by getting this
assumption down, potentiallyhundreds of thousands of dollars
(40:09):
.
So pay the thousands of dollarsto get this done with Carla and
get it done and have it set,and don't try to do it yourself.
Again, you can do it yourself,but it comes down to the same
philosophy.
You can do your brakes on yourcar if you want, or you can fix
your engine or anything else Ifyou want.
(40:30):
To take the time and you wantto go through the brain damage
and maybe you're going to screwsomething up and it's going to
really screw up your car or yourfuture finances or your home or
your kid's home and all that.
I don't know about you, but Idon't want to mess with that.
Spend the money at least to geta plan through Carla and I know
sometimes finances are adifficult challenge and whatnot,
(40:50):
but it's important.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
You said something there that kind of brought
something else up.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
And we kind of touched on this earlier but we
didn't go into it.
So when does an assumption notmake sense?
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
You know, everybody thinks that assuming their
mortgage is the best way to go,always because they've got a low
rate, like a sub three interestrate, right.
But you have to look at what isthe total cost of keeping this
house.
Because you might have amortgage of $200,000 at two and
a half, but you might owe yourspouse $400,000.
(41:24):
And you might think that it'sso important that you keep this
two and a half interest rate.
You might owe your spouse$400,000.
And you might think that it'sso important that you keep this
two and a half interest ratethat you will drain another
asset to pay out that $400,000.
So that's what I help peopleunderstand too is let's look at
the big picture, becauseeverybody today is so, so rate
sensitive and they are so honedin on just keeping their current
(41:47):
mortgage rate they don't carewhat the cost is to buy out.
I have seen people give uptheir entire retirements.
Bad move You're getting rid ofan account that's compounding
interest and that's going totake you how long to build back
up.
You have to look at the wholeentire picture here and you have
to again.
(42:08):
This is where it comes down toworking with a fee-based CDLP,
because we are going to give youthe actual rundown of what is
your best case scenario movingforward, Not what's best for me
and if I'm going to make anymoney off of you or not.
Right, right.
So it's so important to gothrough this whole process.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
That's a great point and that's like an even bigger
conversation.
But the takeaway for me on thatis not only do you need a
certified divorce mortgageexpert like Carla, you need a
certified divorce mortgageexpert like Harla, you need a
certified divorce financialprofessional also that can then
(42:51):
look at all of the rest of thatstuff your retirement, your
pensions, whatever other assetsyou have.
There's lots of different waysto maneuver this.
That's the beauty.
If you've created all theseassets which is a fantastic
thing you just need somebodythat can be smart and help you
(43:12):
through that process, and that'sa whole nother thing in
splitting up 401ks or IRAs andthere's tricks and stuff that
you can do with that as well.
But if you've got Carla andthen you've got the financial
person as well, and then you'reall working in conjunction, even
if you can't cooperate withyour soon-to-be ex, at least you
(43:35):
can bring this information tothe court.
If you've got a plan and you'vegot a good plan and I'll say, if
you've done the work and youhave experts like Carla and a
financial person, and you bringthis to court and you
demonstrate to the court whythis makes sense for everybody
involved, you are much betterpositioned and they are more
(43:58):
inclined to rule in your favorthan if you just show up.
You don't do any of this andthen I'm telling you what's
going to happen is it's going tobe just split it and sell the
house.
That's the default, and thenyou lose hundreds, if not
millions, of dollars by doingthat.
So even if you are in a highconflict and I'd say if you are
(44:20):
in a high conflict it's evenmore important for you to do
this and pay attention to thisand bring all of the knowledge
and the education, because againwe'll come full circle.
The attorneys don't know thisinformation.
The judges, who are formerattorneys, don't know this
information.
So even if they don't give animmediate ruling at your hearing
(44:44):
, even when they go back andthey look, and they look at the
transcripts and the testimony,they still don't understand this
stuff.
So if you don't have an expertlike Carla or an expert for
finances, and you have this outthere, it's just they're not
going to know.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
They're not going to figure it out for you.
Their job is to legallyseparate you.
Right, their job is not legallyseparate you Right.
It's their job is not to knowany of this stuff you know, and
and you're right Like a CDFA is.
I mean, I, I don't.
I don't know the value of theequity in the home compared to
your retirement accounts,compared to the cash in the bank
(45:23):
.
That's where a CDFA, acertified divorce financial
analyst, comes in and reallylike, together we are able to
come up with, hopefully, areally good solution, you know,
for you to remain inhomeownership and not lose your
tail on all of your assets andso on.
So I, I love the CDFAs that Iwork with and it's just so
important to know that, likeattorneys know legally how to
(45:49):
separate you.
That doesn't mean that it willwork with mortgage guidelines.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
Nope, exactly, and we can just leave it at that.
If you, if, if it is, if,unfortunately, the first thing
you did was hire an attorney,that's OK.
You still need an attorney onyour team, that's good.
The next thing you should is acoach, and the next thing you
should get is then yourfinancial people and your
therapist, and and then and thentrainer, ok, so then you have
(46:20):
your team helping you mentally,emotionally, physically,
spiritually, and you're going tobe able to get your finances
done.
You're going to go through thelegal system and you're going to
come out this.
It sounds real easy, right, buthaving gone through it, right,
both of us knowing that it's notthat easy.
There's a lot going on and we'retalking just specific numbers
(46:40):
here and how to deal withservices.
We're not even talking aboutthe mental, emotional aspect of
a house, or a house that youbuilt together or remodeled or
whatever, and changing all thatstuff.
So we do recognize that thereis a lot that goes on with that,
but that's just again.
For me, that's just anotherreason to bring somebody to your
(47:01):
team that's going to helpsupport you and that's going to
be looking at this aspect of it,right, the attorneys look at
the legal aspect.
They're very narrow.
Carla's looking at the mortgageaspect that's very narrow.
The divorce planner is, or thefinancial divorce planner is
looking at that that's verynarrow.
A coach might be looking at itall holistically for you.
(47:24):
Your therapist is looking atyou mentally, emotionally.
That's very narrow, right.
So having all these peopletogether helping support you and
then a coach that's guiding youthrough it really is the best
way to go.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
And that's the beauty Like when we all work together,
we can make amazing thingshappen.
And I think that might soundlike, oh my God, like I'm
shelling out all this money inall these different directions.
The money that it costs you tonot do this is far greater.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
It is and that's the.
That is the unintended, unknownconsequence of all of this, one
that you get post-divorce andthen all this is just a mess.
And that's where I would get alot of guys coming like I'm in
contempt because I didn't get itdone.
I wanted to get the assumptiondone.
I said six months and I'm like,well, it's too late now.
(48:13):
Well, you're talking to me nowI can't get you to anybody
that's going to really help youthrough this at this point.
Or you don't qualify, orwhatever it might be.
The, the unintended is thatyou've lost thousands of dollars
and you don't even know it.
You don't even know it becauseyou just got through it and
that's the.
Unfortunately, that's kind ofthe attorney's mindset.
Well, if we just get themthrough the divorce, that's the
(48:34):
thing and the how you get themthrough and the quality is
really, really important.
That's where the rest of usreally come in.
So, carla, where can?
So Carla?
Carla does this across thecountry and and and maybe I
don't know, we have listenersacross the world and I don't
know you probably you're notgoing to be able to do the loan,
(48:55):
but you might be able to givesome guidance around, around
lending, but at least in theUnited States, and you do also
lend in all 50 States, in theUnited States too, right?
So where can the listeners getahold of you and contact you?
Speaker 2 (49:07):
Yeah, so my company that I founded is my Divorce
Mortgage Planning.
I am based out of Denver,colorado.
I will let you know there'smany places within my website
where you can just go in andbook a call.
I don't do free consultations,so to get on my calendar you do
have to go through that link andpay for that little time slot
(49:29):
and that's not really for me tosolve your problems in that 20
minute phone call.
That's to see if we are fit towork together.
If I think that I can help youthrough your situation, so at
that point you can then retainme to work with you through your
divorce process, where I willhelp you with the whole planning
stage of mortgage and how toeither keep you in the marital
(49:53):
home or move on and purchase anew home.
Everybody's situation isincredibly unique and so it's
really just taking the time tofind out what do you want.
Can we do that, and if we can't, what's the alternative?
To me, staying in homeownershipis absolutely the most
(50:14):
important thing that I didduring my divorce.
So I've only rented a home forsix months out of my whole life
since I turned 20.
And that was when we remodeledthis home.
So I am a fan of homeownershipthrough and through and it's
just, it's.
It's important, it's animportant way to grow your
wealth and, you know, continuethat stability on for your
(50:37):
family.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
Absolutely Perfect.
So the the website ismydivorcemortgageplanningcom.
Check it out.
Get the help that you need, youdeserve.
Get connected with Carla.
Carla, thanks so much forsharing a tip of the iceberg of
your expertise and what's goingon, but really give us the
lowdown on how to get this donein the right way.
(51:01):
I sincerely appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
Yeah, thank you for having me on.
Assumptions are huge right now.
Big topic right now.
Hello and welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for tuning inthis week and we've got an
excellent topic probably a veryunderserved topic for sure that
has probably one of the greatestimpacts on everybody who goes
through divorce and that may, infact, not even be known by most
(00:23):
people the impact that theyexperience in going through this
and this topic of assumptionstoday and just basically divorce
mortgage as well.
So before I get to introduceour guest today, I just wanted
to welcome Michael to theDivorced Advocate community.
If you're not part of thecommunity, check it out at the
the Divorced Advocate community.
(00:44):
If you're not part of thecommunity, check it out at
thedivorcedadvocatecom.
Wherever you're at in divorce,whatever your resources, we have
something there for you.
And also just a reminder keepthis podcast free.
If you own a business thattakes credit cards or you know
of a business that takes creditcards, please refer them here to
me at jude at thedivorcedadvocatecom.
(01:07):
We can save them some money andwe can continue to help finance
our non-profit that keeps thisshow going and helps other dads
that are in need.
Okay, my guest today, carla Kite, is a certified divorce lending
professional who believesdeeply in the power of home
ownership.
After going through her owndivorce, carla realized that
(01:29):
staying in her home was onlypossible because of her mortgage
lending expertise and carefulplanning.
That experience sparked hermission to help others navigate
the financial and emotionalchallenges of divorce without
losing the roof over their heads.
Carla founded my DivorceMortgage Planning to guide
divorcing couples through one oflife's toughest transitions.
(01:52):
With years of experience inresidential mortgage lending,
she works to ensure separationagreements are written smartly
that is huge properly addressingsupport payments, debt
obligations and every detailthat impacts home ownership.
She also educates attorneys,realtors and collaborates with
other experts nationwide, makingher a true leader in the field
(02:15):
of divorce mortgage planning.
Welcome to the show, carla.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Thank you, thanks for having me on today.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
My pleasure.
Hey, we got to meet.
Was it last week already?
No, and we had a greatconversation and we're going to
be talking about assumptionsspecifically, and how to go
through the assumption process,something that's very, very,
that can be very complex andcomplicated but can have a huge,
huge impact.
(02:42):
But before we jump into thattopic, share just a little bit
with the audience about what gotyou into niching divorce and
divorce mortgages.
I know you talk a little bitabout your divorce, but why the
shift?
Speaker 2 (02:57):
Yeah.
So you know, through my wholelending career I was constantly
frustrated with people callingme, asking if I could help them
to refinance, and then only tofind out that they were not set
up properly in the settlementagreement.
And I said for years, why don'tattorneys reach out to us
before they put something inwriting that their client can't
(03:19):
actually execute?
And I didn't know anythingabout the CDL piece that stands
for Certified Divorce LendingProfessional.
I didn't know anything aboutthe CDL piece that stands for
certified divorce lendingprofessional.
I didn't know anything aboutthat certification.
And I actually expressed, youknow, that same feeling to a
mediator who I met in anetworking group and she said,
well, do you have your CDLP?
And I was like what in the heckis that?
(03:40):
I didn't even know what it was.
So when I discovered what thecertification was, I honestly
thought you know, I'll go andget this silly certification and
then maybe I'll get someattorneys to work with me.
And you know, I can work thisas another.
You know like little, you knowside hustle to my business,
right.
And then when I did this, Iflew down to Arizona, took the
(04:01):
certification class and it was awhole lot of I didn't know what
I didn't know in this space.
I had never thought of actuallyopening a practice where I was
consulting and helping people tocome up with settlement
agreements that actually work.
Like, how do we finally get infront of attorneys, attorneys,
(04:22):
so they really listen to us andset these people up properly?
Because there's so and I can'tsave everybody, I can't save the
homeownership for everyone, but, man, there's a lot of cases
where it's just a couple oftweaks here or there, you know,
or swapping out one thing foranother in terms of an asset or
(04:43):
maintenance, or something likethat, that can help keep both
people in homeownership, whichtoday is very difficult with the
cost of housing and theinterest rates.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
It's a completely different story today, yeah, and
so let's talk a little bitabout that because, like I
alluded to in the intro, lots ofpeople have no idea that some
of the things that they can doand the literally tens or
hundreds of thousands of dollarsthat they can save going
through this process primarilybecause of what you described,
(05:20):
which is attorneys don't evenknow this.
You didn't know this, I didn'tknow this.
I didn't know this.
When I went through my divorce12 years ago and I'm in the
business too right, I wasselling real estate as well.
So there's just not a whole lotof education out there around
this, and the first person thatmost people go to are attorneys,
(05:42):
and attorneys are probably theones that ignore this the most,
because they're trying to getyou through the legal process.
We're not going to go down thatroad with the attorneys, but
they've got their focus on wherethey want to go and how they
want to get this done.
But the ones that do buy intothis and do want to get their
(06:03):
clients with somebody that'sgoing to do their finances pay
attention to that do theirmortgages, sell their real
estate.
Hopefully, mental, emotionalhelp, et cetera just is a
service that is amazing fordivorcees going through this
Because, look, it's a simplemath equation we talk about it
all the time right, onehousehold into two means there's
(06:24):
going to be more expenses.
Your living, your environmentand your living is going to be
different.
So if you can minimize thatimpact as much as possible, not
only for yourself but for yourkiddos, man, what an amazing
life 2.0 you can have.
(06:45):
And it's a shame that attorneysdon't.
It's not one of the, becausethis is like the large one of
the, probably the largest assetfor the majority of people that
are going through divorce andlike we've talked about it and
we're not going to lament thefact that the first thing they
should be doing is like you goget a coach and then you get a
mortgage planner, and you get afinancial planner and you get a
therapist.
Right, that should be the nextthing you do after you hire an
(07:07):
attorney, and the attorneyshould be telling their clients
that.
But let's dive into it, becauseyou mentioned the agreements
and like temporary agreementsand stuff.
So take us through a little bitabout why that's important and
how it can benefit somebodythat's going through the divorce
(07:31):
and either wants to assumewe're going to talk mostly about
assumptions and how to do thatprocess, but it kind of all
works together in gettingqualified for the assumption as
well if you want to qualify forpurchasing something after.
Speaker 2 (07:45):
Exactly so.
First of all, I think thebiggest problem is when somebody
hires an attorney or maybe inthe state of Colorado they could
use an LLP or any kind ofdivorce professional.
They're looking to that personto guide them through the whole
entire process, looking to thatperson to guide them through the
(08:07):
whole entire process.
Here's the problem.
Almost all attorneys say reachout to your lender, call your
lender right.
And so clients either calltheir lender that helped them
buy the home or they call theirservicer, the person that
they're paying their mortgage to.
Right now, those are notcertified divorce lending
professionals.
Okay, so that's the first stepis getting to a CDLP.
(08:28):
The second step is getting to aCDLP that actually runs a
fee-based business.
That will look very objectivelyat your case and help you
figure out the best path to moveforward, because if you're
working, with.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
I want to stop on that because, being in the
industry, I know a little bitmore and I want to make that
point that you just made, whichis somebody that's feed-based.
And the reason you and I'm justgoing to save you because you
probably won't say it, but Iwill say it the reason for that
is because there are multitudeof ways that mortgage lenders
(09:03):
can make money on the back endof your mortgage.
So if they are only looking tomake the maximum amount of money
, it's not necessarily going tobe in your best interest.
And that's not to say, that'snot to slam any mortgage lenders
or anything like that, butthere are, like there's bad
actors everywhere, right?
So if you find somebody likeCarla that's gonna talk to you
(09:26):
upfront and charge you to createa plan for this, then hopefully
you're gonna use Carla right,and you should, because she
really knows how to get throughit, but you're gonna have a plan
that is the best plan for you,not a plan that might be it's
gonna be good for you, but it'sgonna be really good for you,
but it's going to be really goodfor the lender, right, because
(09:47):
they're going to maybe make alot more money on that.
So I just wanted to point thatout.
That is a huge, huge point thatI think that is unknown out
there.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
Yeah, so Sorry continue.
No, that's fine.
If they call their servicer ortheir past loan officer.
They're just going to talk theminto a refinance because they
don't make a dime unless theyactually do a loan for you.
If they call a CDLP, you mightget a little bit of a mixed bag,
but if they're not charging youanything, understand that the
(10:18):
only way that they are going toever make money off of you is if
they get you to do a loan withthem, right.
Make money off of you is ifthey get you to do a loan with
them, right.
So really it is in your bestinterest to go with a fee-based
CDLP that's going to look atyour case objectively, because a
lot of people are in these verylow rate mortgages that we're
going to talk about.
You know, doing an assumptionand it might make the best sense
(10:41):
for you to do an assumption,and I will preface that, and now
we're going to get into this.
It doesn't always make sense todo an assumption in the case of
a divorce.
So that's the first thing is youknow attorneys and divorce
professionals.
They don't know what they don'tknow when they're saying call
your lender like they need to bemore specific and call somebody
(11:04):
who's really going to help youthrough this process, you know.
So when I bring somebody in asa new client, I look at how they
qualify today without havingany support or paying out any
support.
What does your qualificationlook like right now?
And then as we get further intothe divorce and we figure out
who's going to get what andwho's paying who how much, then
(11:31):
we can take those pieces andmove them around and figure out
what's the best path forward.
And people will hire me oftenas a couple and I will work for
both of them and I will givethem both the best advice that I
can give them for them both toremain in homeownership.
If I'm only working with oneclient, I will be their advocate
and I will figure out whateverway I can to keep them in
homeownership.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
So when is it a good idea to do an assumption and
when is it a bad idea to do anassumption?
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Yeah, so this is very .
Speaker 1 (12:04):
And let's define what an assumption is first versus
what a refi is and what theirother options are.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
Okay, so let me start with this.
Okay, so let me start with this.
(12:32):
During COVID, our rates gotextremely low and almost
everybody I know refinanced intoa new mortgage during COVID.
I would say the majority ofthose people refinanced into a
Fannie Mae or a Freddie Mac loan.
Okay, on the closing disclosureand this is a big giveaway that
I'm giving in this right Inthis podcast, this is huge On
your closing disclosure, whenyou did that refinance or when
you purchased during those lowrate years, your closing
disclosure clearly stated thatthis loan is not assumable.
(12:53):
Okay, so these loans are notassumable.
So if people just go straightto their documents, they're
going to read that and they'regoing to think, ah, I can't
assume this loan from my exspouse anyway.
But Fannie Mae and Freddie Macboth have a clause that states
if you're going through adivorce, they will allow for
what's called a release ofliability.
(13:13):
So those loans are notassumable in the sense that if
you put that home on the marketand a third party wanted to buy
your house from you, they can'tassume that loan at the current
rate.
But if you're going through adivorce, you can release your
spouse of the liability on thatmortgage, but you have to go
(13:34):
through an entirerequalification process, just
like you did when you refinancedyour purchase.
Okay, and you have to do thatwith the servicer.
And here's the problem.
A lot of people, when theyrefinanced their purchase, they
left one person off of the loan.
So like, let's say, bob andJane own a home together.
(13:55):
Bob and Jane might both be ontitle, but maybe only Bob is on
the mortgage.
If Jane is keeping the home,she can ask the servicer if they
will do a release of liabilityand allow her to take over that
loan.
But you've got to think aboutthat.
That's not really a release ofliability.
That's adding Jane on andremoving Bob.
(14:17):
So at that point it's a lenderdiscretion call.
At that point you just have toask have I seen it happen?
Yes, I have.
I've seen it happen with my owneyes, so it's possible.
You have to ask the rightquestions.
When you call the servicer,don't ask if your loan is
assumable.
Ask if they will allow for arelease of liability and if they
(14:40):
will release your spouse thatis not staying in the home.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
Yeah.
Well and yeah, well, and I wantto say when you call, hopefully
you've already talked to Carla,right, because if you call, the
call might go like this no,it's not assumable.
Thanks for calling, goodbye,right, like they're not going to
look into the details of yourloan for you on the phone.
(15:04):
Because, frankly, there'slittle, there's very little
incentive for them to do that.
Right, and do you want to talkabout that?
Speaker 2 (15:14):
Yeah, there's very little incentive.
Of course they don't want tokeep the loan on the records and
it's not even necessarily thatthey want to redo a new loan for
you they would love that, butmore so they just kind of want
that low rate mortgage off thebooks, right.
So there is no incentive thereand they don't make assumptions
easy.
So like where I come in andwhere I help people with the
(15:37):
divorce mortgage planning pieceis we look at that and we look
to see can Bob qualify to keepthat mortgage without Jane?
And this is where it getsreally tricky for me and I have
to give a big disclaimer whenI'm working with clients, I can
only do this to the best of myability.
I don't work for your servicer.
(15:59):
I'm not the one that's going tomake that final call on whether
or not it will be approved ornot.
I know typically what they'relooking for in terms of
guidelines.
It's typically what's called amanual underwrite.
So I think the thing thatpeople need to be really careful
of is that as a lender, I coulddo a loan for you at a very
(16:20):
different qualification thanwhat you're going to go through
under this release of liabilityor assumption, whatever you want
to call it.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Right.
So what you're saying is therecould be different criteria by
which the servicer is going tomake that determination.
It might actually be easier foryou to qualify to get a new
loan than to assume it.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
The criteria to do an assumption in the case of a
divorce release of liability.
That's kind of interchangeable.
The criteria is it's moredifficult, it's tighter
guidelines.
They want lower and why is thatso when you do?
I don't know why they're notrunning it through the automated
(17:11):
system, but they're running allof these as manual underwrite.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
And let's just clarify what manual underwrite.
And let's just clarify whatmanual underwrite.
Manual underwrite means thatthe file's actually going to an
underwriter, they're taking alook at it, they're scrutinizing
it, they're asking youquestions coming back, as
opposed to automated, which isan automated system that it kind
of just gives the, you put inall the parameters and then it
gives you an approval and thenprovide the documentation in it.
(17:37):
As long as the documentationsupports what you put into the
system, you're good.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Yes, that's a pretty yes.
Yes, because there still is ahuman underwriter that checks
all of that documentation.
But what automated underwritingallows for is like it looks at
the whole file and if you havereally good credit and you have
lots of assets, it will let youexceed the guidelines for debt
(18:05):
ratio.
So like if the debt ratioguideline is 45, automated
underwriting often lets us go to49.9 as long as you have decent
credit and a couple extra bucksin the bank.
Often lets us go to 49.9 aslong as you have decent credit
and a couple extra bucks in thebank.
When you're doing these releaseof liability or assumptions, you
(18:25):
are held hard at 45% and that'sjust the back-end debt ratio.
That's not even working at thefront-end.
So the investor might also havea requirement for the front-end
debt ratio.
So your front end is just yourhousing to the income.
Your back end debt ratio isyour housing and all of your
monthly debt to your income.
So they are going to be lookingat this just under much
(18:51):
stricter guidelines.
So you have to be prepared forthat guidelines.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
You have to be prepared for that, and so, then,
what makes it so important totalk to somebody like you is,
then, in structuring a temporaryagreement or a post-snap, that
there are ways in which you canensure not ensure, but position
them to be better able toqualify for that assumption
(19:20):
right.
Speaker 2 (19:21):
Yeah, I mean, I literally have people every week
that make agreements that theycan't execute and so, like the
one that just came to mind, sheagreed to assume the loan and
she never even checked to seewhat she would look like on
paper.
And she owns an insuranceagency and she is technically
(19:44):
self-employed and she comesnowhere close to qualifying for
anything, let alone to assumethis mortgage from her ex.
And she's in an agreement whereshe has to get this assumption
done in six months.
Or there's always that verbiage, or if you can't make this
(20:06):
happen, you got to sell yourhouse, right.
Speaker 1 (20:09):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
No, she's going to have no choice.
She's going to have to sell herhouse.
I asked her if she has aco-signer so we can do like a
refinance instead.
But she's hemming and hawingbecause she wants to hold on to
that low rate and I get it, butit's not going to happen.
Like there is no way under thesun that she will qualify to
assume that current loan.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
Right and let's and let's talk about that a little
bit because some of the thethings that are necessary to to
qualify are the same as if youwould be qualifying
independently.
However, there's timelines thatare different here, like with
income and things that you cancount towards income, say
(20:52):
spousal support, et cetera thatif you have this written into
your agreement, that then ithelps you because it starts to
clock sooner.
So let's say, your divorce takesnine months right, I think
that's a fair timeframe nine to12 months and you put in
something in your agreementlet's talk a little bit about
(21:13):
this and how you can do that Putsomething in your agreement
that allows you to thendemonstrate to the servicer or
the bank that you then have thisand then also, depending upon
what happens at your finalorders, that that's going to go
for a period of time that isenough to allow you to qualify.
(21:35):
I just said that in generalterms because I want you to dial
into a little more granulararound that, because, no, I
don't think anybody knows orunderstands this.
Part of it is you've got todemonstrate income and that you
you know the, the spousalsupport, whichever way or
whatever you're using, can bedone, whichever way or whatever
(21:56):
you're using can be done can beutilized for that, yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
So if you are the person receiving support and
different loan types havedifferent requirements, and so
I'm going to go back toassumptions here in just a
minute.
This is just a generalqualifying requirement for
income.
So for a conventional loanFannie Mae, Freddie Mac and most
jumbo loans you have to havereceived the support for six
months on time, and then it hasto continue for three years
(22:23):
after the date of closing on theloan or the refinance or the
assumption whatever.
For an FHA loan, you only needthree months.
Receipt Still has to continuefor three years.
Okay, three months.
Receipt still has to continuefor three years, Okay.
So when you're negotiatingsupport, like if you do anything
less than I mean, if you'regetting support for three years,
it's not going to help you asingle bit, Right, and so like
(22:47):
something you could do there, ifyou're getting 10 grand a month
for three years, that's notgoing to help you at all.
But maybe you lower that toeight grand a month and stretch
it out for a few more years andthen you've got qualifying
income to help you there.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
So that's where talking to somebody like you can
help in the negotiations, andparticularly if the couple is
doing this and is amicable andcan talk about hey, let's do
this, let's try this.
Maybe there's an asset that Igive you or we trade, an asset
that offsets whatever this isand you can set yourself up both
(23:24):
of you up for successpost-divorce.
Speaker 2 (23:28):
Yes, 100%, and I've absolutely helped couples figure
that out.
So one of the things you weretalking about was temporary
orders, I think.
So that's really important too,and a lot of attorneys don't
want to get into temporaryorders.
But there's different thingswith temporary orders.
(23:48):
The reason I want temporaryorders is because it starts that
clock ticking right.
If we need six months and threemonths or whatever for us to
count temporary orders to getthat clock ticking right.
If we need six months and threemonths or whatever for us to
count temporary orders to getthat clock ticking for
qualifying income, we have tohave a court order in place and
the payment has to be made froman individual account to an
individual account.
So Bob and Jane can't have ajoint account that's paying Jane
(24:13):
her support every month it hasto come from Bob to Jane.
Court order has to be in placeand then we can start counting
that for that three months orsix months, whatever timeframe
we need.
Now if they go to theirattorney and they say I need to
get temporary support put inplace because I need to start
counting for my mortgage, andthe attorney is like, oh my God,
(24:34):
no, that's really costly, blah,blah, blah, I will tell you
this If you guys are amicable,this is not costly.
It's simply a stipulation andit's very easy to execute.
It's very easy to get intoplace.
If you're not amicable, youprobably won't get it.
And it's a and it is a big bigthing, right?
So that's very different.
(24:55):
But talking about just amicableclients, this is something easy
to get into place.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
So yeah, and for those listening, I just wanted
to.
It's called different things indifferent places.
Temporary orders is that it'syour temporary agreement while
you're going through the divorceprocess to your final final
orders or or or whatever youknow if you're going to trial
and then you get file orders.
So what it does, is it it?
It?
(25:21):
It separates everything, bothcategories financial, what's
happening, who's paying what,what's a spousal support might
be more like all of that stuff,and then also it will it will
determine what parenting time is, et cetera, and all that.
So basically it's a temporarysetup and agreement, but there
(25:42):
are myriads of reasons that itis beneficial.
Sometimes it's not, but for themost part I feel like it can be
a positive for a myriad ofreasons, but specifically and
most importantly for thefinancial piece of it, with the
mortgage lending in particular,because then, like you said, and
I'm just going to reiteratethat then when those temporary
(26:07):
orders are executed and let'ssay there's spousal support,
that's happening, then that thatthen starts that timeline,
instead of waiting the ninemonths or the 12 months until
the divorce is finalized andthen it gives and then you might
have to be waiting Well,depending on where you're
(26:27):
getting the loan right Threemonths, six months, whatever it
might be in order to count thatincome, so you're just able to
get things going faster.
It makes it so much easier.
You can potentially reduce oreliminate the need to do a
double move right To movesomewhere temporarily before you
(26:47):
can qualify for anotherproperty and then move again.
That makes the transition somuch easier on your kiddos.
So by doing this, by doing thetemporary order, by having it
structured very clearly, thenyou're just putting yourself way
, way ahead of the curve andgetting all this stuff done and
getting all your life settled.
(27:08):
So continue.
I just want to clarify some ofthat.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Well, the bills are getting paid anyway.
Well, hopefully, right, I guesssome cases they're not, but in
most cases the bills are stillgetting paid.
All we're doing is a littleshift of money so that we can
start counting income for thatperson that needs it, and I mean
, this is incredibly importantto the stay-at-home parent, and
(27:32):
that could be stay-at-home momor stay-at-home dad.
My situation at my house is myhusband's been a stay at home
dad for years, so, like for himto continue on and be able to
purchase anything or be able tokeep the home, I would have to
put temporary orders in place sothat by the time we finalize,
he's in a place that he can moveon, right?
(27:54):
So, yeah, and it doesn't.
The temporary order doesn'thave to match the permanent
order Exactly.
It needs to be in the ballpark,like you might have temporary
orders at four grand a month andthen when they go permanent,
they're 4,500.
That's okay, we just want to seethat one payment of permanent
support and then we'll countthat 4,500.
So I wanted to talk reallyquick is difficult and if you
(28:23):
need support to help you qualifyfor an assumption, then you're
possibly pushed out even further.
But I want to tell you everyservicer is different on this
and so I've seen some servicersjust run with the court order
and not have that six monthreceipt requirement, which is
very strange to me, becausethere's no way under the Senate
(28:49):
ever be able to do that forsomebody if I was doing a
refinance or a purchase for them.
We have to show this receipt.
So when you're doing anassumption it could look
something like this If you don'tput a temporary order in place
and we go through the process tosee if you qualify, we know you
don't qualify.
You need that support to qualify.
(29:10):
Let's say that you're notamicable, so temporary orders is
not even an option, right?
So then at the time of finaldecree, which is usually when
the investors will allow you tostart that assumption process,
they usually won't allow you tostart before you have final
decree.
So you get final decree andthen you need to show six months
of support to qualify.
(29:31):
So then you don't qualify foranother six months, then you
submit right and then theassumption process I always tell
everybody can take like six toeight months.
So in your settlement agreementyou have to make sure that
you're allowed the time that youneed to get this process done,
because if you need support toqualify you might have to wait
(29:53):
that six months.
Some of them won't make youwait, but they're not going to
communicate this with you beforeeither.
So your settlement agreementhas to be really specific on
this.
Especially if you're notamicable, you need to make sure
that the attorneys and thejudges understand the timeline
that you're up against if you'retrying to salvage this interest
(30:17):
rate and do an assumption.
Speaker 1 (30:20):
Right, and that would be at least 12 months.
I would say and I think this isprobably the number one thing I
see all the time which is okay,you have six months to do it,
and it's just not feasible,right, like I get guys all the
time that are oh well, and thenif they have somebody that's not
(30:40):
agreeable they're taking themback for contempt If they don't
have it done in six months andthen you're spending more money
and you're arguing more, like itbecomes a big giant nightmare.
So at least 12 months, really18 months, because, like you
said, if you need the six monthsto qualify, then you need like
(31:01):
12 months to deal with theservicers and just know you're
going to be on the phone withthem nonstop.
You're going to be calling them, it is, you're following up
with them.
Again, they have no incentive.
Just think of it as that you'reworking with somebody that has
no incentive to do this.
If there's something on theirdesk, or literally, if it's
lunchtime or it's to do yourservicing, they're going to eat
(31:25):
lunch, right.
There's just no incentivewhatsoever.
So the longer you put this out,the better.
Let's talk for a quick secondabout, let's say, you are the
breadwinner, if you will andyou're going to be the one
paying spousal support and childsupport.
Paying spousal support andchild support, then if you have
(31:47):
the temporary orders in place,does that help?
If you're doing that, does thatstart the timeline the same for
them as it would if they werereceiving it, or do they still
have to wait until final ordersand then know exactly what that
(32:07):
dollar amount is going to be?
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Okay, so you're the main income earner and you're
going to be paying the supportand you're keeping the house and
you want to assume the loan.
Is that the case, correct, okay?
Speaker 1 (32:19):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
So temporary orders really has no impact here in
that case, because they can'tstart the assumption process
until they have final decreeanyway and the permanent orders
will be part of that.
So there's no impact.
Temporary orders has no impacton that at all.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Okay.
So for the dads listening, ifthey're going to be paying
spousal support, child support,then this isn't going to have an
impact for them, but it willhave an impact on their soon to
be ex.
So that if you guys are amicableand you're able to communicate,
you can say hey look, we wantto be, we want you to be in a
(33:01):
good position, so we need to getthese temporary orders in place
.
So I'm going to assume, I'mgoing to assume the place, but
we want you to be able toqualify for something, let's say
when, when we're done, so thatthere's a there's a smoother
transition to either moving outor finding a new play, whatever
it might be.
So let's get this set up andstarted.
(33:22):
And then you know this is whileI'm working on the assumption
and doing that you can befinding your mortgage broker,
you can be looking for homes,you can start that process
knowing relatively confidentlythat you're going to be able to
qualify for something.
Once you know, provided theyhave all the regular income
(33:43):
requirements, they have a joblike, the job is seasoned enough
, they've had it for long, etcetera, right, all the same
things that they would bequalifying for, but at least
they are able to count thisincome Correct.
Speaker 2 (33:55):
Yep absolutely.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Okay, got it.
So how about some tips I justalluded to it in dealing with?
So they're going to be workingwith you, but in their work with
you, you're the coach, right,Like you're not the one
executing this, You're the coach, they're the quarterback, right
.
They're going to have to bedealing with servicers.
Give us some tips on how todeal with servicers and how to
(34:21):
talk to them.
How often to call them?
Do you bug them?
Do you blow up their emails anddo what do you do with these
servicers that have little to nointerest in really helping you?
Speaker 2 (34:31):
Yeah, so unfortunately the servicer
dictates the communication.
And just to be really clear, sowhen I do divorce mortgage
planning with couples, they canretain me for the planning piece
and I help them get set up forthis.
If they want to also hire me toexecute the assumption, I will
(34:52):
help them with the facilitationof the assumption.
So I will be there to kind ofcoach them through it.
I will help them with thepaperwork and all of that.
And those are two separatethings.
But, believe it or not, thereare some servicers out there
that will only deal with you viasnail mail.
Speaker 1 (35:12):
No joke.
Well, I'm not surprised.
I've been in the business longenough, so that doesn't surprise
me.
But it might surprise everybodyelse that's listening Sure.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Yeah, I mean, is that not the craziest thing in?
Speaker 1 (35:22):
this thing.
It's insane.
Yeah, we should just be faxingthem too, right?
Speaker 2 (35:26):
craziest thing in this thing.
Yeah, we should just be faxingthem too, right?
Yeah, to me it's just.
Let's just poke you a littlebit more and see if you really
want to go through this process,right, um, so, but not all of
them, I think, and I can'tremember who it is right now,
but somebody has actually goneto an online application, which
was shocking.
That was a client I talked tolast month, and so they really
dictate that process.
(35:47):
Most of them will say, once yousubmit everything to me, and
like I will, I'll call out Chasereally quick because I think
they've done a decent job at theassumptions.
They're very clear Do not, donot submit this until your final
decree.
You got to have that in handand then we're going to work
(36:08):
with you and I think, in allfairness, the reason that they
are not interested in doinganything before is because
things change during the courseof the divorce process.
Things are negotiated outdifferently, so what you might
think is going to happen mightnot be what actually happens.
So why are we going to wasteour time on this?
There is a fee for goingthrough an assumption.
I've not seen anything over$2,000.
(36:31):
So just expect that from theinvestor, but they make you wait
until your divorce is final andthen you submit everything to
them and then what they say isonce we've received all of your
documents, we get 45 days andthen we'll get back to you
within 45 days.
So if they're communicatingwith you over email, that's
(36:54):
fantastic.
They're not big at talking onthe phone.
Reason why is because you knowwhen you're doing assumption,
when you did your loan, when youdid your refinance, you had
somebody like me, you had a loanofficer.
Whether you were working with abank or a broker or whatever,
you had a loan officer that wasbasically holding your hand
(37:16):
through the process and gettingyou through this.
I mean, we don't get paid ifyou don't close, so we have a
huge incentive to get you tothat finish line.
When you're doing an assumption,there's nobody in your corner
that is gunning for you Like itis not a thing, and so you don't
have any help.
So I also don't think thatthese services that are doing
(37:39):
this they don't they don't havethe people to to necessarily
handle this Like assumptionshave not been a thing since the
eighties.
Okay, like it just hasn't.
So the assumption departmentswith the services are thin, and
probably the people that theyhave in there that are fielding
any phone calls or doing theemails.
(38:01):
They're probably entry-levelpeople, right?
So they probably don't have anymortgage knowledge.
The underwriters who areactually signing off on these
and approving these?
Well, I don't know.
Have you ever talked to anunderwriter?
No, because that's our job aslenders.
We handle that between you andthe underwriter, right?
(38:21):
Underwriters are notconsumer-facing people, so I
think there's a bit of abreakdown there, right.
Underwriters are not consumerfacing people, so I think
there's just a there's a bit ofa breakdown there, right.
So, like they're going to,they're going to set the,
they're going to set how theywant to communicate and how they
will communicate with you.
Hopefully it's at least email.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Okay.
So so you're not, you're notlikely to be able to get
somebody on the phone.
The person you do get on thephone and the 1-800 number is
going to give you limited to noinformation.
So that's why it's incumbentupon you to be able to find your
loan docs.
First, look at your loan docs.
If you can't understand orfigure out what it says, what
(39:01):
you can and can't do in yourloan docs and then, when you do
call them, that you may or maynot get the right answer based
upon that.
That's why it's incrediblyimportant to take it to somebody
like Carla and say, hey, here'smy loan docs, let's talk about
this.
Is this something that I can do?
That's just the very start ofthe process, because then, after
(39:26):
Carla puts the plan togetherfor you, you can take it and
execute it on your own if youwant, or you can work with her.
I highly recommend working withher because you do not want to
have to be doing this on yourown.
This is from somebody that'sdone loans, so I used to be a
lender too right, and it ishighly complex.
(39:47):
It is highly frustrating.
There is so many things that goon during this process that it
is money well worth it.
And look, here's the fact ofthe matter.
You are saving, over the lifeof your loan, by getting this
assumption down, potentiallyhundreds of thousands of dollars
(40:09):
.
So pay the thousands of dollarsto get this done with Carla and
get it done and have it set,and don't try to do it yourself.
Again, you can do it yourself,but it comes down to the same
philosophy.
You can do your brakes on yourcar if you want, or you can fix
your engine or anything else Ifyou want.
(40:30):
To take the time and you wantto go through the brain damage
and maybe you're going to screwsomething up and it's going to
really screw up your car or yourfuture finances or your home or
your kid's home and all that.
I don't know about you, but Idon't want to mess with that.
Spend the money at least to geta plan through Carla and I know
sometimes finances are adifficult challenge and whatnot,
(40:50):
but it's important.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
You said something there that kind of brought
something else up.
Speaker 1 (40:56):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
And we kind of touched on this earlier but we
didn't go into it.
So when does an assumption notmake sense?
Speaker 1 (41:02):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
You know, everybody thinks that assuming their
mortgage is the best way to go,always because they've got a low
rate, like a sub three interestrate, right.
But you have to look at what isthe total cost of keeping this
house.
Because you might have amortgage of $200,000 at two and
a half, but you might owe yourspouse $400,000.
(41:24):
And you might think that it'sso important that you keep this
two and a half interest rate.
You might owe your spouse$400,000.
And you might think that it'sso important that you keep this
two and a half interest ratethat you will drain another
asset to pay out that $400,000.
So that's what I help peopleunderstand too is let's look at
the big picture, becauseeverybody today is so, so rate
sensitive and they are so honedin on just keeping their current
(41:47):
mortgage rate they don't carewhat the cost is to buy out.
I have seen people give uptheir entire retirements.
Bad move You're getting rid ofan account that's compounding
interest and that's going totake you how long to build back
up.
You have to look at the wholeentire picture here and you have
to again.
(42:08):
This is where it comes down toworking with a fee-based CDLP,
because we are going to give youthe actual rundown of what is
your best case scenario movingforward, Not what's best for me
and if I'm going to make anymoney off of you or not.
Right, right.
So it's so important to gothrough this whole process.
Speaker 1 (42:30):
That's a great point and that's like an even bigger
conversation.
But the takeaway for me on thatis not only do you need a
certified divorce mortgageexpert like Carla, you need a
certified divorce mortgageexpert like Harla, you need a
certified divorce financialprofessional also that can then
(42:51):
look at all of the rest of thatstuff your retirement, your
pensions, whatever other assetsyou have.
There's lots of different waysto maneuver this.
That's the beauty.
If you've created all theseassets which is a fantastic
thing you just need somebodythat can be smart and help you
(43:12):
through that process, and that'sa whole nother thing in
splitting up 401ks or IRAs andthere's tricks and stuff that
you can do with that as well.
But if you've got Carla andthen you've got the financial
person as well, and then you'reall working in conjunction, even
if you can't cooperate withyour soon-to-be ex, at least you
(43:35):
can bring this information tothe court.
If you've got a plan and you'vegot a good plan and I'll say, if
you've done the work and youhave experts like Carla and a
financial person, and you bringthis to court and you
demonstrate to the court whythis makes sense for everybody
involved, you are much betterpositioned and they are more
(43:58):
inclined to rule in your favorthan if you just show up.
You don't do any of this andthen I'm telling you what's
going to happen is it's going tobe just split it and sell the
house.
That's the default, and thenyou lose hundreds, if not
millions, of dollars by doingthat.
So even if you are in a highconflict and I'd say if you are
(44:20):
in a high conflict it's evenmore important for you to do
this and pay attention to thisand bring all of the knowledge
and the education, because againwe'll come full circle.
The attorneys don't know thisinformation.
The judges, who are formerattorneys, don't know this
information.
So even if they don't give animmediate ruling at your hearing
(44:44):
, even when they go back andthey look, and they look at the
transcripts and the testimony,they still don't understand this
stuff.
So if you don't have an expertlike Carla or an expert for
finances, and you have this outthere, it's just they're not
going to know.
Speaker 2 (45:01):
They're not going to figure it out for you.
Their job is to legallyseparate you.
Right, their job is not legallyseparate you Right.
It's their job is not to knowany of this stuff you know, and
and you're right Like a CDFA is.
I mean, I, I don't.
I don't know the value of theequity in the home compared to
your retirement accounts,compared to the cash in the bank
(45:23):
.
That's where a CDFA, acertified divorce financial
analyst, comes in and reallylike, together we are able to
come up with, hopefully, areally good solution, you know,
for you to remain inhomeownership and not lose your
tail on all of your assets andso on.
So I, I love the CDFAs that Iwork with and it's just so
important to know that, likeattorneys know legally how to
(45:49):
separate you.
That doesn't mean that it willwork with mortgage guidelines.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
Nope, exactly, and we can just leave it at that.
If you, if, if it is, if,unfortunately, the first thing
you did was hire an attorney,that's OK.
You still need an attorney onyour team, that's good.
The next thing you should is acoach, and the next thing you
should get is then yourfinancial people and your
therapist, and and then and thentrainer, ok, so then you have
(46:20):
your team helping you mentally,emotionally, physically,
spiritually, and you're going tobe able to get your finances
done.
You're going to go through thelegal system and you're going to
come out this.
It sounds real easy, right, buthaving gone through it, right,
both of us knowing that it's notthat easy.
There's a lot going on and we'retalking just specific numbers
(46:40):
here and how to deal withservices.
We're not even talking aboutthe mental, emotional aspect of
a house, or a house that youbuilt together or remodeled or
whatever, and changing all thatstuff.
So we do recognize that thereis a lot that goes on with that,
but that's just again.
For me, that's just anotherreason to bring somebody to your
(47:01):
team that's going to helpsupport you and that's going to
be looking at this aspect of it,right, the attorneys look at
the legal aspect.
They're very narrow.
Carla's looking at the mortgageaspect that's very narrow.
The divorce planner is, or thefinancial divorce planner is
looking at that that's verynarrow.
A coach might be looking at itall holistically for you.
(47:24):
Your therapist is looking atyou mentally, emotionally.
That's very narrow, right.
So having all these peopletogether helping support you and
then a coach that's guiding youthrough it really is the best
way to go.
Speaker 2 (47:35):
And that's the beauty Like when we all work together,
we can make amazing thingshappen.
And I think that might soundlike, oh my God, like I'm
shelling out all this money inall these different directions.
The money that it costs you tonot do this is far greater.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
It is and that's the.
That is the unintended, unknownconsequence of all of this, one
that you get post-divorce andthen all this is just a mess.
And that's where I would get alot of guys coming like I'm in
contempt because I didn't get itdone.
I wanted to get the assumptiondone.
I said six months and I'm like,well, it's too late now.
(48:13):
Well, you're talking to me nowI can't get you to anybody
that's going to really help youthrough this at this point.
Or you don't qualify, orwhatever it might be.
The, the unintended is thatyou've lost thousands of dollars
and you don't even know it.
You don't even know it becauseyou just got through it and
that's the.
Unfortunately, that's kind ofthe attorney's mindset.
Well, if we just get themthrough the divorce, that's the
(48:34):
thing and the how you get themthrough and the quality is
really, really important.
That's where the rest of usreally come in.
So, carla, where can?
So Carla?
Carla does this across thecountry and and and maybe I
don't know, we have listenersacross the world and I don't
know you probably you're notgoing to be able to do the loan,
(48:55):
but you might be able to givesome guidance around, around
lending, but at least in theUnited States, and you do also
lend in all 50 States, in theUnited States too, right?
So where can the listeners getahold of you and contact you?
Speaker 2 (49:07):
Yeah, so my company that I founded is my Divorce
Mortgage Planning.
I am based out of Denver,colorado.
I will let you know there'smany places within my website
where you can just go in andbook a call.
I don't do free consultations,so to get on my calendar you do
have to go through that link andpay for that little time slot
(49:29):
and that's not really for me tosolve your problems in that 20
minute phone call.
That's to see if we are fit towork together.
If I think that I can help youthrough your situation, so at
that point you can then retainme to work with you through your
divorce process, where I willhelp you with the whole planning
stage of mortgage and how toeither keep you in the marital
(49:53):
home or move on and purchase anew home.
Everybody's situation isincredibly unique and so it's
really just taking the time tofind out what do you want.
Can we do that, and if we can't, what's the alternative?
To me, staying in homeownershipis absolutely the most
(50:14):
important thing that I didduring my divorce.
So I've only rented a home forsix months out of my whole life
since I turned 20.
And that was when we remodeledthis home.
So I am a fan of homeownershipthrough and through and it's
just, it's.
It's important, it's animportant way to grow your
wealth and, you know, continuethat stability on for your
(50:37):
family.
Speaker 1 (50:39):
Absolutely Perfect.
So the the website ismydivorcemortgageplanningcom.
Check it out.
Get the help that you need, youdeserve.
Get connected with Carla.
Carla, thanks so much forsharing a tip of the iceberg of
your expertise and what's goingon, but really give us the
lowdown on how to get this donein the right way.
(51:01):
I sincerely appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
Yeah, thank you for having me on.
Assumptions are huge right now.
Big topic right now.
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