August 25, 2025 • 32 mins
Court-appointed Guardian Ad Litems can significantly impact divorce outcomes but often present challenges for fathers seeking fair custody arrangements. They serve as independent investigators tasked with determining what arrangement best supports a child's safety and development, though their recommendations frequently disadvantage dads.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to the show.
Thanks for tuning in again thisweek.
I sincerely appreciate youbeing here.
We have an important topic thisweek and that is whether or not
you should worry about aguardian ad litem in your
divorce case.
But before we jump in, as usual, let's welcome our newest
(00:22):
member to the Divorced Advocatecommunity.
That is David Welcome.
If you're not part of theDivorced Advocate community,
check out the website directlyat thedivorcedadvocatecom.
That is where we house all ofour resources.
It is the central place whereyou can get all of the help that
(00:46):
you need or that you want.
I do want to point out on thewebsite we have a new page.
It is our Trusted Allies page.
Go and check that out.
These are individuals that havebeen carefully vetted that are
coming on board and alongside usas a community to assist you in
(01:10):
the challenges that you'regoing through.
Some of these people aresponsors that have been paid.
Some of them are working orthat have paid us.
Some of them are working withus and collaborating with us,
maybe doing Q&As, doing liveevents, wherever they might be
at, but they are trusted alliesthat we're bringing more and
(01:35):
more and more on so that we canget everybody the help that they
need, wherever you're at inyour divorce, wherever you're at
in the country or the world, sothat you all have a resource.
So check that out at thewebsite.
It is our new Trusted Alliespage.
Okay, we're going to be talking.
We are talking about what aguardian ad litem, and so I
(01:57):
apologize.
Gentlemen, I have never done apodcast in five years on what a
guardian ad litem is and thebenefits or the detriments to
that.
And on that note, I just wantto point out if you ever have a
topic that you can't find helpabout or information about at
our website, atthedivorcedadvocatecom, or while
(02:18):
you're involved in ourcommunity, or just need some
feedback, please send me anemail at
judeatthedivorcedadvocatecom andlet me know, so that I have a
ton of information.
I have a ton of knowledge,obviously, but sometimes stuff
like this slips through thecrack.
(02:39):
I don't know why I haven't donethis podcast.
I don't know why I haven'ttalked about this.
You're getting me solo thisweek.
We've had lots of great,amazing guests really over the
last three weeks.
Last three or four weeks, Ithink, have been some of the
best information and contentthat we've put together in quite
a long time.
And then this one this weekwith the Guardian ad litem.
(02:59):
I think is important.
It came up because I was on acall with a guy yesterday that
was talking about his terribleexperience with a guardian ad
litem and it just struck me thatwe hadn't talked about it.
So let's get into this.
As you know, divorce andcustody battles are challenging
and when you're trying to be adad, that's proving you're not
(03:24):
just a weekend parent but aconsistent, loving and capable
father, which seems like we areall doing all the time because
of the lens and the bent of thefamily law court.
So you might have a guardian adlitem that is appointed by the
court, or you might have theattorneys that will recommend
(03:46):
that you get a guardian ad litemappointed.
So this might worry you.
It should worry you.
There are some potentialbenefits to it, but there are
some drawbacks too.
So this is just another person,right Another stranger,
involved amongst many otherstrangers of this family law
cottage industry court that isgoing to be involved in this
(04:09):
situation.
So, again, it can be positive,there can be positive outcomes
and it can be helpful, but thereare a myriad of drawbacks to
pay attention to.
So let's break it downspecifically in how it plays out
for divorced or divorcing dads.
First, what is it?
What is a guardian ad litem?
(04:30):
This is the best definition Ican come up with.
It's a person appointed by thecourt.
So you can either agree to itregardless.
If you agree to it or not, thecourt will appoint one point one
(04:50):
, and what they are there to dois to represent the best
interests of a child during thelegal proceeding.
So this is a representativedirectly representing and
looking at the best interests ofyour kiddos.
It's usually in custody,visitation or abuse and neglect
cases, but not always.
I'm seeing it used more andmore just in a high conflict.
(05:11):
The guardian ad litem is not alawyer for the child or either
of the parents.
Instead, all they're doing isthey're acting as an independent
investigator.
An advocate is really the bestway, as an independent
investigator and advocate isreally the best way an
independent advocate tasked withfiguring out what arrangement
or outcomes best supports thechild's safety, well-being and
(05:34):
development.
So they can be attorneys, theycan be social workers, they can
be specially trainedprofessionals.
This kind of all depends on thestate.
This is also where it kind ofbecomes difficult and
challenging if they're not justguardian ad litems and this is
just not how they're makingtheir living.
(05:55):
This is one of the challengesthat I find.
It's the same challenge I findwith the PCDMs, the same
challenge I find less so withthe PREs.
Also, some of these new whatare they called?
Licensed legal professionals,llps in Colorado here and some
(06:15):
other places across the country.
So it's kind of some folksdoing side stuff which if you
kind of do stuff as a hobby, youknow that you're not exactly
proficient at it.
But I start to digress off thebat.
Let's talk about how a guardianad litem works in court.
(06:37):
So once a guardian ad litem isappointed, they begin an
independent investigation.
Now, item is appointed, theybegin an independent
investigation.
Now they can either be activelyinvestigating or they can be
passively working with thechildren and the parents.
They're going to interview bothparents to start out, or both
guardians to start out.
They're going to talk to thechild or the children if that's
(07:01):
age appropriate.
They're going to observe,potentially, parent-child
interactions, hopefully.
Sometimes they do, sometimesthey don't.
They could potentially visityour home.
They will take information thatis provided to them review
school medical counselingrecords, other stuff like that.
(07:23):
They could speak with teachersor doctors or therapists or
anybody else that is involved ina child's life.
So what they'll do is, aftergathering information, they will
either write just a full-scalereport to pay, on the scope that
they've been given by the courtin the court order.
So it could be just a report atthe end of a specific
(07:46):
investigation, or it could beongoing, where they're reporting
to the court on an ongoingbasis what they feel is
something that is necessary.
They'll talk about the summaryof their findings, they'll
create an analysis of thechild's needs and then they'll
make recommendations on whatshould happen.
Maybe that's custody, parentingtime or whatever other decision
(08:11):
that might affect the child.
Now the other thing to keep inmind and to know is that in the
courtroom, the guardian ad litemmay testify as a witness.
So that's going to be big andwe're going to talk about that
here in a moment.
Their report is submitted in.
Whatever they submit to thecourt is evidence, so it can be
(08:33):
used for or against you, andthen judges often give just like
they do any third party, quote,unquote, expert significant
weight to the guardian adlitem's recommendation.
So, especially when parents arehighly conflicted or when there
are concerns about safety,neglect or manipulation which
(08:56):
those last three are reallyimportant.
High conflict we're going totalk about why that can get
somewhat misconstrued andweaponized against you.
So it's important for you toknow that the guardian ad litem
is not on your side and they arenot on your ex's side.
(09:17):
Their only role is to look outfor the child's best interest,
even if that means recommendingsomething neither parent wants.
All right, so this sounds great.
Right, so it sounds like, well,it's just somebody looking out
for the kiddo.
And I've had lots of guys agreeto this and it has turned out
horribly, horribly wrong.
(09:38):
Now I'm going to.
I've put together somepositives.
I'll be honest with you, it'sbeen a little bit.
It's a little bit of achallenge with these positives.
I'm going to convey them in thelight of them being a positive,
but I'm also going to talkabout what potentially is wrong
with this, with this positive.
The first positive is what Ijust stated the child's needs
(10:00):
stay front and center.
Many of our high conflict,divorces and custody battles
often become about what maybeeach parent wants, but the court
cares about what's the bestinterest of the kid, and the
guardian ad litem is supposed tobring the focus back to the
best interest of the kids andthey'll assess who's more stable
(10:23):
, more engaged and betterequipped to meet the child's
emotional, educational, physicalneeds, not who wins more
arguments, et cetera.
So for dads, this can be reallyreally good if you've been the
steady one while your ex iscreating drama, moving
frequently, using the child as apawn, et cetera, the guardian
(10:45):
ad litem, hopefully, will noticethis and it's a chance to
separate parenting from thefight and prove you're in this
for your kid not to score points.
Now that sounds terrific,except that typically when there
is a high conflict, it is oneor the other person that is just
(11:06):
not reasonable and wanting toagree or come to terms or
negotiate or agree or figure outor put the kids in the
forefront and as the mostimportant thing, and so those
people that do that and theperson that is that are usually
(11:28):
often very manipulative.
So, while it is supposed to befocused on your kiddos and the
guardian ad litem can hopefully,if they're well-trained and
good, can see through that,oftentimes that is not the case
and they become a tool tomanipulate.
So we're going to talk aboutthat in the negatives a little
bit later.
To manipulate so we're going totalk about that in the
(11:48):
negatives a little bit later.
Another positive for dads is itcan level the playing field if
you're being unfairly painted.
Let's just be real about this.
Dads walk into court already ata disadvantage.
Your ex is potentially playingthe victim better than you are,
(12:09):
and maybe there are andoftentimes are especially in
high conflict false allegations.
Maybe you've made a mistake ortwo in the past, which happens,
and we all make them as parentsand it's being exaggerated or
used against you now.
So this is where a guardian adlitem can help.
They don't just rely on whatyour ex says in court documents.
They dig deeper.
They talk to both sides.
They visit your home, watch howyou interact with your child
(12:31):
and interview people whoactually know you as a parent.
So if you've beenmisrepresented, this can be an
opportunity for you to correctthe record.
So they'll see if you are doingthings right, if you're
creating the environment that isconducive and the best interest
of your kiddos, that it's cleanand safe, you have child
(12:54):
appropriate routines and rules,you're involved in their school
activities, healthcare, and youhave a strong loving bond with
your kiddos.
So if you've been doing thework and you're doing all this,
you're creating the environmentthen this is where it can be a
positive and that will comeacross in either the report or
(13:14):
the regular updates to the court.
The other one is credibility.
I'm calling credibility in yourcorner, so the judges don't
have time to get to know you andyour lawyers only have so much
time.
Also, and it's the time thatthey're billing you frankly.
But the guard and ad litem,they have the judge's ear and
(13:38):
technically they're supposed tocome with receipts.
So if you are prioritizing yourchild's needs, communicating
respectfully to your ex even ifshe's not, and keep your
promises and show upconsistently, the report
hopefully and should and theirupdates to the court should
(13:58):
reflect that.
That can be powerful, that canbe beneficial.
It carries, like I said, a lotmore weight than just the he
said she said in court thatoften happens and a positive
Gardner-Ed Lightham evaluationcan help you with your joint
custody, increasing yourparenting time or a schedule
(14:22):
that might work better or worsefor the kiddos.
Okay, so those are the positivesthat I came up with.
That is all in theory,gentlemen, and I'm sorry to say
that because we're going to gothrough the negatives now and
I've got to say that I haveheard more negatives about
guardian ad litems in court thanI have heard positives and when
(14:44):
I say that I don't mean by asmall margin, I mean by a very
large margin, like the data Iwas talking to yesterday and the
unfair reports and updates tothe court that he was receiving
by the Guardian ad litem, whodid not even talk with him over
some of these topics andsubjects and just decided to
(15:07):
write a report.
So the negatives, it's out ofyour hands.
Mostly that's the first one.
The kicker is you don't get topick who's assigned to your case
unless your attorneys aresuggesting this and then you
agree upon one.
But be very careful if you doagree upon one.
Just like any one of these thirdparties that are involved in
(15:28):
family law court, this is acottage industry.
They make their money off ofbeing in family law court.
They see each other all thetime.
You might get lucky and land afair, professional guardian ad
litem, or you might get one thatbrings their own biases or is
not going to go out on a limbfor you because they know that
(15:49):
they're not going to piss offthe judge or the magistrate, or
they're not going to piss offthe other attorney or anybody
because they make their livingby getting referred from the
court or somebody else or one ofthe other attorneys, in order
to continue to feed their family.
So, in order to continue tofeed their family.
So some guardian ad litems leanmaternally by default, even if
(16:13):
unintentionally.
But we already know that that'sjust the way the family law
court is structured.
So know that that each one ofthese professionals that you're
working with has got a bias andas much as they might be trying
to work against it, got a biasand and as much as they might be
trying to work against it, thatit's not going to go so far in
your, it's not likely to go sofar in your favor, even if there
(16:33):
is egregious stuff.
Others.
Others are just overworked andrushed through their
investigations and then, theworst case, they spend more time
talking to your ex than you andnever fully understand your
side, or never, or just don'teven talk to you, like the guy I
was talking to yesterday andcomes up with some assessment
based upon what his soon to beex said and a brief conversation
(16:57):
with the children.
So if that happens, the reportand the updates could skew
against you.
And it's in writing.
It's tough to undo, especiallybecause it's one of the quote
unquote experts that the judgeis going to be leaning on to
make their decision.
You have to understand,gentlemen, the judges want cover
.
They want cover because theywant to say, hey, this is what
(17:20):
the feedback was that I got.
These are the quote unquoteprofessionals that gave their
recommendations.
I'm going with those that givesme cover, and and, and that's
why I'm making my decision.
So, so you've got to know,you've got to understand, you've
got to keep that in mind whenyou're, when you're working in
this, in this context and in inthis environment.
(17:40):
So what is a tip for you to tobe able to mitigate this?
The fact that it's out of yourhands Document, document,
document, document, every singlething.
One of the first things we dowhen I am doing individual
coaching with dads is we set upa system for them to document
(18:00):
everything that is going onthroughout the entire process.
And why is that important?
It's important in this casebecause you can be proactive
about suggesting people thatthey can talk to, or teachers,
coaches, babysitters, anyonethat can speak on your behalf as
to what kind of parents you are.
It'll also help you if theguardian ad litem, like in this
(18:25):
gentleman's case that I was justspeaking to, does not talk to
you and does not come up withsomething that is positive, that
if you have documentationaround all this, you can be able
to mitigate and argue againstthis quote, unquote expert in
court if it is being used asevidence against you.
(18:45):
So document everything and alsounderstand, gentlemen, when
you're documenting everything,your divorce case might end.
When you finish, well, hopefully, you come to agreement and then
you, and then you get thedivorce decree and then you have
the parenting time agreementand all that, and you've done
that in an amicable way way.
(19:07):
But your communication, yourco-parenting, the rest of this
does not stop and I thinkoftentimes we think that we're
getting to the finish line, thatthat's the end zone and you're
done.
This is just the beginning,then, of the process that's
going forward in dealing with amyriad of other things, and if
(19:28):
you listen to 260, some podcasts, or you've been on a group call
, or if you talk to anotherdivorced dad, some of this
conflict does not stop,especially if you have somebody
that is very, very challenging,has mental, emotional issues,
personality disorders, whatever,that's not going to agree or
collaborate or come to agreementon stuff.
(19:48):
So documenting everything isexhausting.
It feels like a full-time job,you feel like a secretary that
you got to pay attention to.
But again, get yourdocumentation, get a system for
it and you're going to be usingit and use it for years to come.
Okay, the next negative for dadswith guardian adult items is
that they can be very expensiveIf you and you're probably
(20:13):
already stretched.
Paying child support, legalfees, possibly maintenance and
the guardian ad litem bill canhit too, and, depending on your
state, that may or may not, mostlikely not be split and you
might be ordered to pay all ofit.
Or you might be ordered to payall of it, or you might be
ordered might be ordered to payall of it and, subject to to
(20:39):
review at final orders or at atrial, to to have it reallocated
, which somehow typically alwaysfalls through the cracks and
never gets done.
Right, if especially if it'shigh conflict and there's 5
million other things that gettalked about that reallocation
never gets done, so you getstuck with it.
So what are their hourly rates?
(20:59):
Basically, they're the same asattorneys I'm a high-end
attorney, so they're notinexpensive, and so if the case
drags on and the investigationgets complex or there's multiple
things that they need tocontinue to report to the court.
The guardian ad litem has totake multiple visits,
appearances and whatever else,and the price keeps climbing.
(21:21):
So if you're on a budget, askearly on, or if your attorneys
are recommending this orsuggesting this or kicking this
around, how is the guardian adlitem going to be paid?
Who is going to pay it?
What is the estimated cost ofthat, and is there any room to
request payment plans or feecaps?
(21:42):
So it can be very expensive.
I've seen it sometimes where itactually just becomes almost
like as much as another attorneybill.
So you're already paying yourattorney.
You're likely to be ordered topay the guardian ad litem's
attorney.
If your act is high conflictand is always involving the
guardian ad litem, then you'realways talking to the guardian
ad litem.
The guardian ad litem is alwaysdoing an investigation and
(22:05):
writing some sort of report tothe court on what they feel
should happen and the court'sreviewing those and is always in
communication with them.
So it can get really reallyridiculously expensive Another
reason why it may, inprobability, not be a good idea.
The last negative and there'smore than these three, but I'm
(22:28):
just highlighting the top ones.
I think you're starting to getthe feeling.
These three, but I'm justhighlighting the top ones.
I think you're starting to getthe feeling.
The message of how I feel aboutthis Is that a guardian ad
litem is that you are under amicroscope.
So, again, like I said, ifyou've got an ex that wants to
complain or whine or have someissue with everything from
drop-offs to what you're feedingthe kids, to how you look at
(22:50):
them or the emails that you'resending them, in the tone of the
emails, then they're going tobe involved potentially nonstop
and they're going to be in yourbusiness nonstop.
Did you text your ex in anger?
Did you forget the school event?
Did your child mentionsomething innocent?
Like dad, let me stay up late.
That sounds like bad parenting.
(23:11):
It can all be taught, be takenout of context, and this is what
I was mentioning earlier they,they will start to ask questions
.
They will.
And here's the other thing toois and this is just a function
of how court is working familycourt is working in the attempt
to move things in the directionof asking kids about what should
(23:37):
happen and what they want, etcetera.
Asking 13-year-olds and14-year-olds whether they want
to spend time with dad or not.
It's absolutely insanity.
So they'll be talking to kidsand kids.
Look 13, 14, 15 years old.
You have no clue what is goodor bad for you.
So making these decisions andtalking about this stuff and and
(24:01):
and.
While it's good to be heard andallow your kids to be here,
having them make decisions aboutstuff that is going to have a
critical impact on them, likewhether or not they should have
a father in their lives, and thepositive and the positives that
their father brings to theirlives, like authoritative
parenting, which is discountedin family law court.
(24:22):
They have no clue about.
So this guardian ad litem isgoing to be in there talking
about that stuff and making adecision on that.
So just make sure that youwrite down what they see and
hear, and if you're not careful,those details can create a
distorted picture.
So that's why documentingconversations, recording
(24:46):
conversations all that is reallyimportant.
Also, here's something you canexpect surprise visits.
Now, this is on the extreme end, but a guardian ad litem might
just show up at your house on arandom Wednesday to see how
you're parenting in real time.
If you're unprepared, it maynot reflect your usual standards
, but just know.
(25:06):
So you're under the microscopewith this person all the time.
What can you do?
Just make sure that you'recreating the environment, like
we talked about earlier, withyour kiddos.
Make sure that your home isfunctioning well, that you're
staying calm in all of yourcommunication, even if your ex
is being difficult.
Don't involve the kids in thedrama.
(25:29):
Supposedly, guardian med itemsare trained to spot emotional
manipulation, but again, theseare maybe attorneys that are
doing this because they haven'tbeen able to be family law
attorneys and make a livingdoing that, or social workers
because they haven't been ableto get enough of a practice, or
somebody else that just became aguardian ad litem.
So make sure to have all ofyour ducks in a row and that you
(25:54):
are appearing and acting likeand hopefully that you are just
being a ward cleaver, a reallygood dad in creating a positive
environment and I know, if youare listening to this podcast,
that that is you, because youcare about figuring out how to
get through this process in apositive light.
So final thoughts are reallythis the guardian ad litem is
(26:19):
not your friend, but they're notyour enemy also.
So let's just put it in thoseterms the guardian ad litem is
not your friend.
Just don't be clueless aboutthat.
But don't treat them as anenemy.
If you get one appointed to you,their job is not to advocate
(26:40):
for you, to advocate for thechild, but, as we know, that
gets distorted and screwed up infamily law court, especially if
you have an ex.
That's that is.
That is non-cooperative andhigh conflict.
It can't work in your favor.
I will say oftentimes it doesnot.
The majority and I say majoritylike 80, 90% of the time that
I've talked to dads that havedealt with this it does not work
(27:04):
out well.
So best thing you can do is, ifyou are in the situation where
you have one, be consistent, berespectful and keep your kids at
the center of every choice thatyou make and point out how and
why you are doing that, howyou're doing that, why you're
doing that and the documentationof that as well.
(27:27):
And that's why you keep thatdocumentation and keep track of
all that well, and that's whyyou keep that documentation and
keep track of all that, becauseif it does get used against you,
if it does get misconstrued orweaponized against you, then you
have the conversations, youhave the decisions, you have
what you said to them, you knoweverything so that you can
provide to your attorney and youcan mitigate any of those
(27:49):
circumstances that come up.
Look, you can't be perfect.
We're not going to be perfect,especially going through this
difficult and challenging time.
But be present, be reliable, bechild focused that's what they
are looking for and if you cankeep it that way and just like
you're doing it through yourentire process, then you can
(28:12):
hope for the best and hopefullythings are gonna turn out really
great for you.
So that is my take on theGuardian ad litem.
If you found some value in this, I appreciate if you would
share this far and wide thecomments.
We've been getting some morecomments on the podcast
platforms.
Guys, I can't tell you enoughhow much that helps, especially
(28:36):
if other dads are looking forsome resources.
There are not a ton ofresources like this podcast.
On that note, share it far andwide Every week.
If you're not on the email list, get on the email list at the
website.
Share this with other dads.
Get on the email list at thewebsite.
Share this with other dads.
If you're in dad's groups or ifyou know other dads are going
(28:59):
through it, get them involvedand listen to the at least be
able to listen to the podcast.
Even more.
So get onto the website withthe blog posts We've got.
We've got an app.
We've got so many resourcesthere, depending on where you're
at in the divorce before,during or after.
Where you're at in resourcesbefore, during or after.
Where you're at in resources.
I know resources are a bigthing.
That's why we started theFoundation for Fathers to offset
some of this.
It's also why we have thetrusted allies that are coming
(29:22):
in and supporting us indifferent ways financial as well
as other needs for divorcedebts.
Just share this as much aspossible.
Leave a comment, give us a starrating, everything we can
possibly do.
If you found some value in this, pay it forward to somebody
else.
And again, I always appreciateyou listening every week.
It's a blessing for me to behere in front of you this week
(29:45):
and pray that you have aterrific week, god bless.
Hello and welcome to the show.
Thanks for tuning in again thisweek.
I sincerely appreciate youbeing here.
We have an important topic thisweek and that is whether or not
you should worry about aguardian ad litem in your
divorce case.
But before we jump in, as usual, let's welcome our newest
(00:22):
member to the Divorced Advocatecommunity.
That is David Welcome.
If you're not part of theDivorced Advocate community,
check out the website directlyat thedivorcedadvocatecom.
That is where we house all ofour resources.
It is the central place whereyou can get all of the help that
(00:46):
you need or that you want.
I do want to point out on thewebsite we have a new page.
It is our Trusted Allies page.
Go and check that out.
These are individuals that havebeen carefully vetted that are
coming on board and alongside usas a community to assist you in
(01:10):
the challenges that you'regoing through.
Some of these people aresponsors that have been paid.
Some of them are working orthat have paid us.
Some of them are working withus and collaborating with us,
maybe doing Q&As, doing liveevents, wherever they might be
at, but they are trusted alliesthat we're bringing more and
(01:35):
more and more on so that we canget everybody the help that they
need, wherever you're at inyour divorce, wherever you're at
in the country or the world, sothat you all have a resource.
So check that out at thewebsite.
It is our new Trusted Alliespage.
Okay, we're going to be talking.
We are talking about what aguardian ad litem, and so I
(01:57):
apologize.
Gentlemen, I have never done apodcast in five years on what a
guardian ad litem is and thebenefits or the detriments to
that.
And on that note, I just wantto point out if you ever have a
topic that you can't find helpabout or information about at
our website, atthedivorcedadvocatecom, or while
(02:18):
you're involved in ourcommunity, or just need some
feedback, please send me anemail at
judeatthedivorcedadvocatecom andlet me know, so that I have a
ton of information.
I have a ton of knowledge,obviously, but sometimes stuff
like this slips through thecrack.
(02:39):
I don't know why I haven't donethis podcast.
I don't know why I haven'ttalked about this.
You're getting me solo thisweek.
We've had lots of great,amazing guests really over the
last three weeks.
Last three or four weeks, Ithink, have been some of the
best information and contentthat we've put together in quite
a long time.
And then this one this weekwith the Guardian ad litem.
(02:59):
I think is important.
It came up because I was on acall with a guy yesterday that
was talking about his terribleexperience with a guardian ad
litem and it just struck me thatwe hadn't talked about it.
So let's get into this.
As you know, divorce andcustody battles are challenging
and when you're trying to be adad, that's proving you're not
(03:24):
just a weekend parent but aconsistent, loving and capable
father, which seems like we areall doing all the time because
of the lens and the bent of thefamily law court.
So you might have a guardian adlitem that is appointed by the
court, or you might have theattorneys that will recommend
(03:46):
that you get a guardian ad litemappointed.
So this might worry you.
It should worry you.
There are some potentialbenefits to it, but there are
some drawbacks too.
So this is just another person,right Another stranger,
involved amongst many otherstrangers of this family law
cottage industry court that isgoing to be involved in this
(04:09):
situation.
So, again, it can be positive,there can be positive outcomes
and it can be helpful, but thereare a myriad of drawbacks to
pay attention to.
So let's break it downspecifically in how it plays out
for divorced or divorcing dads.
First, what is it?
What is a guardian ad litem?
(04:30):
This is the best definition Ican come up with.
It's a person appointed by thecourt.
So you can either agree to itregardless.
If you agree to it or not, thecourt will appoint one point one
(04:50):
, and what they are there to dois to represent the best
interests of a child during thelegal proceeding.
So this is a representativedirectly representing and
looking at the best interests ofyour kiddos.
It's usually in custody,visitation or abuse and neglect
cases, but not always.
I'm seeing it used more andmore just in a high conflict.
(05:11):
The guardian ad litem is not alawyer for the child or either
of the parents.
Instead, all they're doing isthey're acting as an independent
investigator.
An advocate is really the bestway, as an independent
investigator and advocate isreally the best way an
independent advocate tasked withfiguring out what arrangement
or outcomes best supports thechild's safety, well-being and
(05:34):
development.
So they can be attorneys, theycan be social workers, they can
be specially trainedprofessionals.
This kind of all depends on thestate.
This is also where it kind ofbecomes difficult and
challenging if they're not justguardian ad litems and this is
just not how they're makingtheir living.
(05:55):
This is one of the challengesthat I find.
It's the same challenge I findwith the PCDMs, the same
challenge I find less so withthe PREs.
Also, some of these new whatare they called?
Licensed legal professionals,llps in Colorado here and some
(06:15):
other places across the country.
So it's kind of some folksdoing side stuff which if you
kind of do stuff as a hobby, youknow that you're not exactly
proficient at it.
But I start to digress off thebat.
Let's talk about how a guardianad litem works in court.
(06:37):
So once a guardian ad litem isappointed, they begin an
independent investigation.
Now, item is appointed, theybegin an independent
investigation.
Now they can either be activelyinvestigating or they can be
passively working with thechildren and the parents.
They're going to interview bothparents to start out, or both
guardians to start out.
They're going to talk to thechild or the children if that's
(07:01):
age appropriate.
They're going to observe,potentially, parent-child
interactions, hopefully.
Sometimes they do, sometimesthey don't.
They could potentially visityour home.
They will take information thatis provided to them review
school medical counselingrecords, other stuff like that.
(07:23):
They could speak with teachersor doctors or therapists or
anybody else that is involved ina child's life.
So what they'll do is, aftergathering information, they will
either write just a full-scalereport to pay, on the scope that
they've been given by the courtin the court order.
So it could be just a report atthe end of a specific
(07:46):
investigation, or it could beongoing, where they're reporting
to the court on an ongoingbasis what they feel is
something that is necessary.
They'll talk about the summaryof their findings, they'll
create an analysis of thechild's needs and then they'll
make recommendations on whatshould happen.
Maybe that's custody, parentingtime or whatever other decision
(08:11):
that might affect the child.
Now the other thing to keep inmind and to know is that in the
courtroom, the guardian ad litemmay testify as a witness.
So that's going to be big andwe're going to talk about that
here in a moment.
Their report is submitted in.
Whatever they submit to thecourt is evidence, so it can be
(08:33):
used for or against you, andthen judges often give just like
they do any third party, quote,unquote, expert significant
weight to the guardian adlitem's recommendation.
So, especially when parents arehighly conflicted or when there
are concerns about safety,neglect or manipulation which
(08:56):
those last three are reallyimportant.
High conflict we're going totalk about why that can get
somewhat misconstrued andweaponized against you.
So it's important for you toknow that the guardian ad litem
is not on your side and they arenot on your ex's side.
(09:17):
Their only role is to look outfor the child's best interest,
even if that means recommendingsomething neither parent wants.
All right, so this sounds great.
Right, so it sounds like, well,it's just somebody looking out
for the kiddo.
And I've had lots of guys agreeto this and it has turned out
horribly, horribly wrong.
(09:38):
Now I'm going to.
I've put together somepositives.
I'll be honest with you, it'sbeen a little bit.
It's a little bit of achallenge with these positives.
I'm going to convey them in thelight of them being a positive,
but I'm also going to talkabout what potentially is wrong
with this, with this positive.
The first positive is what Ijust stated the child's needs
(10:00):
stay front and center.
Many of our high conflict,divorces and custody battles
often become about what maybeeach parent wants, but the court
cares about what's the bestinterest of the kid, and the
guardian ad litem is supposed tobring the focus back to the
best interest of the kids andthey'll assess who's more stable
(10:23):
, more engaged and betterequipped to meet the child's
emotional, educational, physicalneeds, not who wins more
arguments, et cetera.
So for dads, this can be reallyreally good if you've been the
steady one while your ex iscreating drama, moving
frequently, using the child as apawn, et cetera, the guardian
(10:45):
ad litem, hopefully, will noticethis and it's a chance to
separate parenting from thefight and prove you're in this
for your kid not to score points.
Now that sounds terrific,except that typically when there
is a high conflict, it is oneor the other person that is just
(11:06):
not reasonable and wanting toagree or come to terms or
negotiate or agree or figure outor put the kids in the
forefront and as the mostimportant thing, and so those
people that do that and theperson that is that are usually
(11:28):
often very manipulative.
So, while it is supposed to befocused on your kiddos and the
guardian ad litem can hopefully,if they're well-trained and
good, can see through that,oftentimes that is not the case
and they become a tool tomanipulate.
So we're going to talk aboutthat in the negatives a little
bit later.
To manipulate so we're going totalk about that in the
(11:48):
negatives a little bit later.
Another positive for dads is itcan level the playing field if
you're being unfairly painted.
Let's just be real about this.
Dads walk into court already ata disadvantage.
Your ex is potentially playingthe victim better than you are,
(12:09):
and maybe there are andoftentimes are especially in
high conflict false allegations.
Maybe you've made a mistake ortwo in the past, which happens,
and we all make them as parentsand it's being exaggerated or
used against you now.
So this is where a guardian adlitem can help.
They don't just rely on whatyour ex says in court documents.
They dig deeper.
They talk to both sides.
They visit your home, watch howyou interact with your child
(12:31):
and interview people whoactually know you as a parent.
So if you've beenmisrepresented, this can be an
opportunity for you to correctthe record.
So they'll see if you are doingthings right, if you're
creating the environment that isconducive and the best interest
of your kiddos, that it's cleanand safe, you have child
(12:54):
appropriate routines and rules,you're involved in their school
activities, healthcare, and youhave a strong loving bond with
your kiddos.
So if you've been doing thework and you're doing all this,
you're creating the environmentthen this is where it can be a
positive and that will comeacross in either the report or
(13:14):
the regular updates to the court.
The other one is credibility.
I'm calling credibility in yourcorner, so the judges don't
have time to get to know you andyour lawyers only have so much
time.
Also, and it's the time thatthey're billing you frankly.
But the guard and ad litem,they have the judge's ear and
(13:38):
technically they're supposed tocome with receipts.
So if you are prioritizing yourchild's needs, communicating
respectfully to your ex even ifshe's not, and keep your
promises and show upconsistently, the report
hopefully and should and theirupdates to the court should
(13:58):
reflect that.
That can be powerful, that canbe beneficial.
It carries, like I said, a lotmore weight than just the he
said she said in court thatoften happens and a positive
Gardner-Ed Lightham evaluationcan help you with your joint
custody, increasing yourparenting time or a schedule
(14:22):
that might work better or worsefor the kiddos.
Okay, so those are the positivesthat I came up with.
That is all in theory,gentlemen, and I'm sorry to say
that because we're going to gothrough the negatives now and
I've got to say that I haveheard more negatives about
guardian ad litems in court thanI have heard positives and when
(14:44):
I say that I don't mean by asmall margin, I mean by a very
large margin, like the data Iwas talking to yesterday and the
unfair reports and updates tothe court that he was receiving
by the Guardian ad litem, whodid not even talk with him over
some of these topics andsubjects and just decided to
(15:07):
write a report.
So the negatives, it's out ofyour hands.
Mostly that's the first one.
The kicker is you don't get topick who's assigned to your case
unless your attorneys aresuggesting this and then you
agree upon one.
But be very careful if you doagree upon one.
Just like any one of these thirdparties that are involved in
(15:28):
family law court, this is acottage industry.
They make their money off ofbeing in family law court.
They see each other all thetime.
You might get lucky and land afair, professional guardian ad
litem, or you might get one thatbrings their own biases or is
not going to go out on a limbfor you because they know that
(15:49):
they're not going to piss offthe judge or the magistrate, or
they're not going to piss offthe other attorney or anybody
because they make their livingby getting referred from the
court or somebody else or one ofthe other attorneys, in order
to continue to feed their family.
So, in order to continue tofeed their family.
So some guardian ad litems leanmaternally by default, even if
(16:13):
unintentionally.
But we already know that that'sjust the way the family law
court is structured.
So know that that each one ofthese professionals that you're
working with has got a bias andas much as they might be trying
to work against it, got a biasand and as much as they might be
trying to work against it, thatit's not going to go so far in
your, it's not likely to go sofar in your favor, even if there
(16:33):
is egregious stuff.
Others.
Others are just overworked andrushed through their
investigations and then, theworst case, they spend more time
talking to your ex than you andnever fully understand your
side, or never, or just don'teven talk to you, like the guy I
was talking to yesterday andcomes up with some assessment
based upon what his soon to beex said and a brief conversation
(16:57):
with the children.
So if that happens, the reportand the updates could skew
against you.
And it's in writing.
It's tough to undo, especiallybecause it's one of the quote
unquote experts that the judgeis going to be leaning on to
make their decision.
You have to understand,gentlemen, the judges want cover
.
They want cover because theywant to say, hey, this is what
(17:20):
the feedback was that I got.
These are the quote unquoteprofessionals that gave their
recommendations.
I'm going with those that givesme cover, and and, and that's
why I'm making my decision.
So, so you've got to know,you've got to understand, you've
got to keep that in mind whenyou're, when you're working in
this, in this context and in inthis environment.
(17:40):
So what is a tip for you to tobe able to mitigate this?
The fact that it's out of yourhands Document, document,
document, document, every singlething.
One of the first things we dowhen I am doing individual
coaching with dads is we set upa system for them to document
(18:00):
everything that is going onthroughout the entire process.
And why is that important?
It's important in this casebecause you can be proactive
about suggesting people thatthey can talk to, or teachers,
coaches, babysitters, anyonethat can speak on your behalf as
to what kind of parents you are.
It'll also help you if theguardian ad litem, like in this
(18:25):
gentleman's case that I was justspeaking to, does not talk to
you and does not come up withsomething that is positive, that
if you have documentationaround all this, you can be able
to mitigate and argue againstthis quote, unquote expert in
court if it is being used asevidence against you.
(18:45):
So document everything and alsounderstand, gentlemen, when
you're documenting everything,your divorce case might end.
When you finish, well, hopefully, you come to agreement and then
you, and then you get thedivorce decree and then you have
the parenting time agreementand all that, and you've done
that in an amicable way way.
(19:07):
But your communication, yourco-parenting, the rest of this
does not stop and I thinkoftentimes we think that we're
getting to the finish line, thatthat's the end zone and you're
done.
This is just the beginning,then, of the process that's
going forward in dealing with amyriad of other things, and if
(19:28):
you listen to 260, some podcasts, or you've been on a group call
, or if you talk to anotherdivorced dad, some of this
conflict does not stop,especially if you have somebody
that is very, very challenging,has mental, emotional issues,
personality disorders, whatever,that's not going to agree or
collaborate or come to agreementon stuff.
(19:48):
So documenting everything isexhausting.
It feels like a full-time job,you feel like a secretary that
you got to pay attention to.
But again, get yourdocumentation, get a system for
it and you're going to be usingit and use it for years to come.
Okay, the next negative for dadswith guardian adult items is
that they can be very expensiveIf you and you're probably
(20:13):
already stretched.
Paying child support, legalfees, possibly maintenance and
the guardian ad litem bill canhit too, and, depending on your
state, that may or may not, mostlikely not be split and you
might be ordered to pay all ofit.
Or you might be ordered to payall of it, or you might be
ordered might be ordered to payall of it and, subject to to
(20:39):
review at final orders or at atrial, to to have it reallocated
, which somehow typically alwaysfalls through the cracks and
never gets done.
Right, if especially if it'shigh conflict and there's 5
million other things that gettalked about that reallocation
never gets done, so you getstuck with it.
So what are their hourly rates?
(20:59):
Basically, they're the same asattorneys I'm a high-end
attorney, so they're notinexpensive, and so if the case
drags on and the investigationgets complex or there's multiple
things that they need tocontinue to report to the court.
The guardian ad litem has totake multiple visits,
appearances and whatever else,and the price keeps climbing.
(21:21):
So if you're on a budget, askearly on, or if your attorneys
are recommending this orsuggesting this or kicking this
around, how is the guardian adlitem going to be paid?
Who is going to pay it?
What is the estimated cost ofthat, and is there any room to
request payment plans or feecaps?
(21:42):
So it can be very expensive.
I've seen it sometimes where itactually just becomes almost
like as much as another attorneybill.
So you're already paying yourattorney.
You're likely to be ordered topay the guardian ad litem's
attorney.
If your act is high conflictand is always involving the
guardian ad litem, then you'realways talking to the guardian
ad litem.
The guardian ad litem is alwaysdoing an investigation and
(22:05):
writing some sort of report tothe court on what they feel
should happen and the court'sreviewing those and is always in
communication with them.
So it can get really reallyridiculously expensive Another
reason why it may, inprobability, not be a good idea.
The last negative and there'smore than these three, but I'm
(22:28):
just highlighting the top ones.
I think you're starting to getthe feeling.
These three, but I'm justhighlighting the top ones.
I think you're starting to getthe feeling.
The message of how I feel aboutthis Is that a guardian ad
litem is that you are under amicroscope.
So, again, like I said, ifyou've got an ex that wants to
complain or whine or have someissue with everything from
drop-offs to what you're feedingthe kids, to how you look at
(22:50):
them or the emails that you'resending them, in the tone of the
emails, then they're going tobe involved potentially nonstop
and they're going to be in yourbusiness nonstop.
Did you text your ex in anger?
Did you forget the school event?
Did your child mentionsomething innocent?
Like dad, let me stay up late.
That sounds like bad parenting.
(23:11):
It can all be taught, be takenout of context, and this is what
I was mentioning earlier they,they will start to ask questions
.
They will.
And here's the other thing toois and this is just a function
of how court is working familycourt is working in the attempt
to move things in the directionof asking kids about what should
(23:37):
happen and what they want, etcetera.
Asking 13-year-olds and14-year-olds whether they want
to spend time with dad or not.
It's absolutely insanity.
So they'll be talking to kidsand kids.
Look 13, 14, 15 years old.
You have no clue what is goodor bad for you.
So making these decisions andtalking about this stuff and and
(24:01):
and.
While it's good to be heard andallow your kids to be here,
having them make decisions aboutstuff that is going to have a
critical impact on them, likewhether or not they should have
a father in their lives, and thepositive and the positives that
their father brings to theirlives, like authoritative
parenting, which is discountedin family law court.
(24:22):
They have no clue about.
So this guardian ad litem isgoing to be in there talking
about that stuff and making adecision on that.
So just make sure that youwrite down what they see and
hear, and if you're not careful,those details can create a
distorted picture.
So that's why documentingconversations, recording
(24:46):
conversations all that is reallyimportant.
Also, here's something you canexpect surprise visits.
Now, this is on the extreme end, but a guardian ad litem might
just show up at your house on arandom Wednesday to see how
you're parenting in real time.
If you're unprepared, it maynot reflect your usual standards
, but just know.
(25:06):
So you're under the microscopewith this person all the time.
What can you do?
Just make sure that you'recreating the environment, like
we talked about earlier, withyour kiddos.
Make sure that your home isfunctioning well, that you're
staying calm in all of yourcommunication, even if your ex
is being difficult.
Don't involve the kids in thedrama.
(25:29):
Supposedly, guardian med itemsare trained to spot emotional
manipulation, but again, theseare maybe attorneys that are
doing this because they haven'tbeen able to be family law
attorneys and make a livingdoing that, or social workers
because they haven't been ableto get enough of a practice, or
somebody else that just became aguardian ad litem.
So make sure to have all ofyour ducks in a row and that you
(25:54):
are appearing and acting likeand hopefully that you are just
being a ward cleaver, a reallygood dad in creating a positive
environment and I know, if youare listening to this podcast,
that that is you, because youcare about figuring out how to
get through this process in apositive light.
So final thoughts are reallythis the guardian ad litem is
(26:19):
not your friend, but they're notyour enemy also.
So let's just put it in thoseterms the guardian ad litem is
not your friend.
Just don't be clueless aboutthat.
But don't treat them as anenemy.
If you get one appointed to you,their job is not to advocate
(26:40):
for you, to advocate for thechild, but, as we know, that
gets distorted and screwed up infamily law court, especially if
you have an ex.
That's that is.
That is non-cooperative andhigh conflict.
It can't work in your favor.
I will say oftentimes it doesnot.
The majority and I say majoritylike 80, 90% of the time that
I've talked to dads that havedealt with this it does not work
(27:04):
out well.
So best thing you can do is, ifyou are in the situation where
you have one, be consistent, berespectful and keep your kids at
the center of every choice thatyou make and point out how and
why you are doing that, howyou're doing that, why you're
doing that and the documentationof that as well.
(27:27):
And that's why you keep thatdocumentation and keep track of
all that well, and that's whyyou keep that documentation and
keep track of all that, becauseif it does get used against you,
if it does get misconstrued orweaponized against you, then you
have the conversations, youhave the decisions, you have
what you said to them, you knoweverything so that you can
provide to your attorney and youcan mitigate any of those
(27:49):
circumstances that come up.
Look, you can't be perfect.
We're not going to be perfect,especially going through this
difficult and challenging time.
But be present, be reliable, bechild focused that's what they
are looking for and if you cankeep it that way and just like
you're doing it through yourentire process, then you can
(28:12):
hope for the best and hopefullythings are gonna turn out really
great for you.
So that is my take on theGuardian ad litem.
If you found some value in this, I appreciate if you would
share this far and wide thecomments.
We've been getting some morecomments on the podcast
platforms.
Guys, I can't tell you enoughhow much that helps, especially
(28:36):
if other dads are looking forsome resources.
There are not a ton ofresources like this podcast.
On that note, share it far andwide Every week.
If you're not on the email list, get on the email list at the
website.
Share this with other dads.
Get on the email list at thewebsite.
Share this with other dads.
If you're in dad's groups or ifyou know other dads are going
(28:59):
through it, get them involvedand listen to the at least be
able to listen to the podcast.
Even more.
So get onto the website withthe blog posts We've got.
We've got an app.
We've got so many resourcesthere, depending on where you're
at in the divorce before,during or after.
Where you're at in resourcesbefore, during or after.
Where you're at in resources.
I know resources are a bigthing.
That's why we started theFoundation for Fathers to offset
some of this.
It's also why we have thetrusted allies that are coming
(29:22):
in and supporting us indifferent ways financial as well
as other needs for divorcedebts.
Just share this as much aspossible.
Leave a comment, give us a starrating, everything we can
possibly do.
If you found some value in this, pay it forward to somebody
else.
And again, I always appreciateyou listening every week.
It's a blessing for me to behere in front of you this week
(29:45):
and pray that you have aterrific week, god bless.
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