Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to
the show.
Thanks for tuning in this week.
I sincerely appreciate it.
I've got a great topic today.
We're going to talk a littlebit about some dating, not a
little bit?
A lot about dating.
Today I've got an extra specialguest, but before we jump into
that, I wanted to welcome ournew members to the Divorced
(00:22):
Advocate community.
Those are Craig and Alex.
Welcome to the community.
If you are not part of theDivorced Advocate community,
those are Craig and Alex.
Welcome to the community.
If you are not part of theDivorced Advocate community yet,
check it out atthedivorcedadvocatecom.
We've got all kinds ofresources for you wherever
you're at in your divorce.
We have coming up in OctoberOctober 29th group coaching.
So if you've been thinkingabout and playing around with
(00:45):
getting some coaching, this is afantastic six-week opportunity
to get involved as well as getwith some other guys that are
going through this challengingtime as well.
It's going to be a reallytransformative experience.
So check that out.
It's on the website as well.
All right, my guest today is adating and relationship coach
(01:07):
for men and the founder of BlackBox Dating.
He specializes in helping menbuild genuine confidence, foster
deeper connections and improveintimacy in their relationships.
His coaching focuses onenhancing communication and
understanding the dynamics ofattraction in the modern dating
world.
Please welcome Dallas Bluth.
(01:29):
Dallas, how are you doing?
Doing great Jude.
Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 2 (01:34):
Yeah, my friend,
thanks for making what I do
sound so much more eloquent thanI do.
That was very well stated.
Speaker 1 (01:40):
Dude, come on now.
You are the coolest because,like know, you watch the movie
hitch and and I think we'vewe've talked before and and I
watched the that that movierecently, the the materialist,
and I'm like man, like everybodyneeds dallas.
He's just, he's so cool and heknows so much and and even in
(02:01):
the brief time that that thatwe've we've known each other and
when we get to chat I justalways walk away going like,
yeah, man, he's got some really,really great tips and really,
really great feedbacks.
I wish I could almost take himon all of my dates all the time,
which maybe I don't know, maybethat's a service that you
(02:21):
provide, but that's a good segueinto telling us a little bit
about yourself and Black BoxDating.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Yeah, that is a
service that has been requested.
However, I have definitelychecked with women and they said
hell no, there's no way that weare letting your dating coach
come on the date with you.
That type of field work justisn't an option.
Yeah, so, like you said, yeah,I'm a dating and relationship
(02:49):
coach.
I work specifically with menand what I like to say in a
nutshell is I help men buildreal confidence, find deeper
connections and have really hotsex, because ultimately those
are the elements that for mostmen that they want to be feeling
, and it's really in that orderthey want to feel like they have
real, genuine confidence.
(03:09):
A lot of times the confidencethat we have, you know, for
picking it up off of socialmedia or off of just, you know,
some gist of other men in theworkplace, it's sort of this
bravado, it's some kind ofmirage of masculinity and we're
not really sure what goes intoit.
And the men that I work with,they come in looking for help in
(03:31):
dating, looking for help incommunication with women, but
ultimately, what it really comesdown to is them connecting with
themselves to find real,genuine confidence, and that
confidence then leads to betterconnections, and connections
have a lot to do withvulnerability.
They have a lot to do with youhaving the confidence to lead
and put yourself out there,first extending invitations and
(03:54):
then accepting what women in theworld want to do with those
invitations that we put outthere, and that's that
invitation to connect.
And when, as men, we have thatconfidence and that connection,
like hot sex just comes our way,it is part of it.
And having a connection and avulnerability and being able to
(04:15):
state clearly what it is that wewant, without making apology,
that leads to all kinds ofexciting elements in the bedroom
and outside the bedroom.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
Yeah, and I
appreciate that about you and
you have such good feedback allthe time.
I'm curious if there was amoment or a personal realization
in your life that led you tosay, oh man, I really need to do
this.
You know, guys need help, or Ineed help, or whatever it
might've been.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yeah, it was
definitely an I need help moment
and I wish it could.
I wish it was just a shortrealization, but really it's
more like a a crash and burnmoment.
You know, been out.
I was in my late thirties.
I'd been dating, you know,women and and I consider myself
lucky, you know I've I've had afair amount of success in
finding dates, you know, onlineand offline, but still not
(05:04):
finding the connection and thefeelings inside of me that I
wanted.
And I, looking at all theresources out there online books
, men's groups, just all thedifferent resources I didn't
find what I was looking for.
So I actually took a ratherunconventional approach and that
was I took women out of thepicture and I asked myself what
(05:27):
are the traits of masculinitythat I've experienced and that
I've enjoyed as a straight man,with other men?
So, taking women out completely, we're not trying to get their
attention.
This isn't about how do youapproach a woman, what do you
say to her.
This isn't about how good thesex is.
This isn't about any kinds ofmind games and who's texting who
(05:47):
, how much.
All of that's removed and Isimply looked back at my life
and I took an accounting of allthe moments that I had really
enjoyed genuine masculinity fromother men, and I made a list
and that list looked ratherdifferent than all of the
different sources out theresocial media, books, speakers,
(06:09):
men's groups.
It looked rather different thanwhat I'd been told and I
consolidated that list, boiledit down and then I started
sharing it with people, andwomen in particular.
I shared it with them and theysaid, well, yeah, of course,
this is exactly what we've beentalking about.
I'm like well, that's not whatyou said.
You know you're using wordslike confidence and you know
(06:29):
assertiveness, but this issomething quite different.
And I started to explain it andthey said well, actually, yeah,
that's very good.
And that was where I learned oneof my first lessons, which is
women intuitively know whatthey're looking for, but they
don't explicitly know how tostate it.
And that's one of the big youknow triples that we get, and
I'm sure every man listening tothis is like, well, duh, women
(06:54):
know what they want when theysee it, but they're not able to
tell us what they're looking for.
So, anyways, I was able toarticulate these items and women
.
I saw that they really lit upwhen I was sharing with them and
really I shared it with somemen and they're interested and
not, which makes sense, becausewe as men have fairly
established egos.
(07:15):
We like to feel like we'reconfident, we know what we're
doing and we don't really wantsome other dude coming along
telling us how to be moreconnected and have hot sex.
You know, it's like that's notreally what they're looking for.
The women, however, said DallasI have not heard anybody else
saying what you're saying and Ireally really wish men knew this
(07:35):
.
So yeah, let's talk about.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Can we talk about
that for a quick second?
I'm sorry to interrupt you, butI think that you've said that
kind of twice now, butmasculinity is taught and
learned from other masculine men, and so that is something and
that's probably a whole podcastepisode that we could get into
and talk about.
(07:58):
But you just described what youdid, which is step away from
the feminine and the women,right.
All this stuff, all this stuffand and I bring that up just to
to say to the dads that so youmight be going through a
difficult, challenging timeright now because of the, the
(08:18):
ending of your marriage, and youmight be thinking about, like,
what did, what did I do wrong?
What could I do better, etcetera.
Oftentimes we don't know what.
We don't know because we didn'tlearn.
We might feel Because, justlike anything, there's a
spectrum of it and you got tolearn how to work and the only
(08:50):
way you do that, and so if youdidn't have like I didn't have a
father figure, I had a father,obviously, but I didn't have a
father that really taught meabout this stuff and I didn't
really have anybody else in mylife that was teaching me about
this stuff.
So I didn't know, and so Ithink that's a really, really
important point to make to thedads.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah, and most of us
don't Even you know.
I grew up in a very stablefamily, you know, and my father
passed on you know certaintraits, certain things that he
knew, but there was a whole lotmore that I had to learn out in
the world.
And when we look backhistorically, you know, at
indigenous cultures, at tribalcommunities where sons and
(09:31):
fathers were much moreinterconnected, what we noticed
is very prevalent is it's notone older man teaching one
younger man how to step intomanhood and develop his
masculinity.
It is a council of elder men.
There's a group of older men,because some guys are going to
be more physical than others,and that's one aspect of
(09:51):
masculinity.
Some men are going to be morehonest than others.
That's another element ofmasculinity.
Some men are going to be morecharismatic than others and when
it comes to the tribal dance,they're going to have no problem
.
You know dancing with all thegirls in the tribe and you know
making a check.
That's a different element ofmasculinity and you know, I not
(10:13):
even ideally, but, but I thinkthe innate drive in most men is
to develop their masculinity ina way that it feeds them and
that it nourishes them and thatthey have a source of
life-giving, strength,confidence and a form of
masculine beauty that they canlive and bask in themselves.
(10:35):
That inspires other people andinspires other men and inspires
other women and ultimately itleads to far more romantic
opportunities in the marketplacethan you would have otherwise.
But really learning how toenjoy it ourselves, that's the
primary goal.
Because when we're on fire as aman and that is a term that I
(10:56):
use rather often is being onfire.
Masculinity feels like you havea life force that is burning
inside of you.
Sometimes it's super hot andraging, sometimes it's more mild
and smoldering, but it butthere is a fire that's, and
there is a warmth and a lightand and a transformation of
(11:18):
one's life that that fire isalways causing to happen.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yeah, yeah, and, and
so I think kind of what you're
describing is mindset right andoftentimes, what?
What happens when, when you geta divorce, there's a massive
blow to to your confidence aswell as your, your identity?
Where do you, when you'reworking with men or dads, where
(11:43):
do you start off when helpingthem to rebuild that sense of
self?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Yeah, the first place
.
This is going to sound not verymasculine, but the first thing
I do is I listen.
Every man that I work with iscoming there because he has pain
points, he's frustrated, he'sangry, he feels powerless, he
feels gypped, he feels like heshould be getting certain things
in life because he did allthese steps and for some reason,
(12:08):
he's not getting his dues.
Men feel not seen, they feelinvisible, they feel not valued.
There's a whole list of verybasic feelings and experiences
that a lot of men in society arefacing, and when I'm first
working with a client, I need tolet him express those elements
(12:30):
and relate to them, because Ifelt pretty much the whole
spectrum myself.
It doesn't really matter whatyour dating history is.
We've all felt these differentmoments at different times, and
one of the challenges that menhave is that we're very
disjointed.
There are men's groups outthere and that provides a
certain amount of socialcohesion and support and feeling
(12:52):
seen and understood by othermen.
So limited Are we stillrecording?
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Yeah, I think we're
still going.
We've got just some Cool.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
And it is limited.
Sorry the video went out on me.
I got just some Cool and it islimited.
It's sorry, the video went outon me.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
I hope it's.
Yeah, video went out, but I canstill hear you and still
recording.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
So All right, then we
will keep on going.
Keep it going, my friend.
Where was I before the videocut out?
Speaker 1 (13:21):
We were talking about
the.
Yeah, we were just talkingabout where you start with a guy
that's rebuilding his sense ofself-worth after ending of a
long-term relationship, or hismarriage.
Speaker 2 (13:31):
Yeah and so yeah.
So when a man comes to me andhe has these different pain
points in place, we follow thatthread of pain down to a
positive point of something thathe does want.
A lot of times, the pain isexpressed as things that we
(13:51):
don't want, or things that areunfair, or the way that women
are behaving, or things that arejust not right about society
and what they are is.
They're focused on the negativeelements, they're focused on
the obstacles, they're focusedon the things that are creating
the pain, and all of those arelegit and all of those are real.
However, when we continue tofocus on the things that are
(14:12):
creating the pain, that's likebeing on a racetrack and
focusing on the wall that you'retrying not to run your race car
into.
I've never been on a racetrack,but I've heard some pretty
vivid stories that you need tofocus on where you want that car
to go, not on where you don'twant that car to go, and so it
is.
Actually a lot of the work islistening to where the pain
points are and then helping theman articulate positively, in
(14:38):
positive terms, the experiencethat he does want to be having
with a woman, because as long asthose frustrations and those
angers and that bitterness areburied under the surface.
It doesn't matter what he sayson the date, it doesn't matter
what words are coming out of hismouth.
Women are highly intuitive andthey will sense that underneath
(15:00):
that there is a lot of anger andfrustration that is bottled up,
and no woman is attracted to afrustration that is bottled up
and no woman is attracted to aman that is waiting to explode.
They're just not so.
Most of the work really comesdown to helping the man regain
the positive thread, the threadof what he does want, and
learning how to accept the factthat it's an imperfect alignment
(15:24):
at the moment, but to worktowards and embrace the picture
that he really wants to havegoing forward.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
Yeah, yeah.
And again, I appreciate howyou're able to dive deeper.
There's so much out there, sucha echo chamber of of bad dating
advice out there right now,kind of with this whole, some of
these manosphere stuff and someof that, that other stuff, that
(15:51):
that, that that the young kidsare are hearing these days.
My daughters come home and tellme, you know, repeat all these
stupid TikTok sayings and stufflike that, and I just shake my
head around it when they'retalking about it and then you
see the little boys that they'reI have teenage daughters right
so you see the other little boysthat are walking around and how
(16:14):
they're acting and I just feellike we have, even in this
difficult and challengingexperience that we have during
divorce, a real opportunity toshow our kids a healthy way to
get through, not only to getthrough that but then to have a
healthy romantic relationshipafter that, because it can be
(16:35):
done.
And just because you failed onetime doesn't mean that you
can't have a healthyrelationship a second time
around.
So on that note, let's talk alittle bit about the modern
dating landscape for divorceddads.
My audience is full of them.
Maybe not yet.
Some of them are and some ofthem are listening or at least
(16:57):
thinking about it, but they'rereentering the dating world
after 10, 15, maybe 20 years,and it's I know.
When I started 13 years ago,when I got a divorce, it was
completely unrecognizable to me.
I had a friend who said, well,he had, he had been divorced
years earlier and online datinghad just really started to blow.
(17:17):
He's like, oh, you got to dothis.
And I'm like, what the hell isthis?
So what do you?
What do you think is the single?
And so, for me, I was like, ohman, I don't know about this.
It was just like crazy.
What do you think is the singlebiggest change or challenge to
men dating in their 30s, 40s or50s today compared to when they
were before?
Speaker 2 (17:40):
Yeah.
So if we're comparing it to,say, 10 or 15 years ago, the
biggest change really is acombination of the presence of
social media in people's livesand it's omnipresent and the
online dating scene, dating appsthose two elements combined
have really changed the datingscene, and not for the better
(18:01):
for the most part, the datingscene and not for the better for
the most part.
So the social media aspect alot of things that men don't
understand is men and women aredrawn to different platforms
online.
For the most part, women aredrawn to social media Facebook,
Instagram, TikTok far more thanmen are.
For the most part, it is moreenticing.
(18:22):
Teenage women, adolescent women,young girls are much more
susceptible to becoming addictedto and being influenced by
social media than young men are.
On the flip side, young men arefar more susceptible to video
games and pornography, Twoelements that women are not
nearly as susceptible to.
That reveals certain elementsof what men and women are after.
(18:46):
If you look at the video games,young men are looking to feel
like they've accomplishedsomething, like they've built
something, like they have asense of power these avatars
that you get at the beginning ofthe game and then you go
through the terrain and you'reupping yourself.
This is a parallel for whatyoung men should be doing in
their real lives, which ispowering up their own selves,
(19:08):
their own identity.
But it's more fun and easy todo it inside of a video game.
Pornography it's sort ofself-explanatory.
Men do like sex.
It's a very basic driving forcefor us and unfortunately,
finding sex online is an easysubstitute for going through all
the work we have to do to findit in real life.
Very similar to the video gamescenario.
(19:30):
On women's side, it's a littlemore complicated.
Women are looking for socialconnection, they're looking for
validation.
They're looking for well, it'shard to even really say it's so
complicated, but the socialmedia seems to provide it, and
one of the things that I'veheard thrown out there that I
personally think there's sometruth to is that you know, women
used to get dressed up, makethemselves look presentable, go
(19:53):
out to a bar or a club or youknow anything out in social life
to get the validation that theyare attractive.
Well, they've got social mediafor that.
Now they don't even have todress up the lower half of their
body in order for them to takea cute selfie, post it online
and get hundreds of likes andcreate this thirst trap that all
(20:13):
these guys are drooling allover them.
That that is not even talkingabout the dating apps.
This is a fundamental shift inhow much people are getting
their basic social and personaldevelopmental needs met, or
seemingly met, without going outinto public yeah, that's what I
(20:35):
was just going to point out.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
Is the, the fact that
we've, we've, we've now
discounted or almost, or almost,completely obliterated that
personal connection, thatpersonal connection that that we
, that we need to have, rightlike so that so, while they're
doing this, they're not actuallyfulfilling the need that they,
they want.
That's why it's so shallow andthat's why there's there's still
(20:56):
the, there's still so manylonely people out there, because
that just that that only takesit to a certain level, right, so
, so, so, so it's.
It's unfortunate.
Let's let's talk about the apps, because there's a ton of
frustration around those.
With many guys, it seems likeeverything is like the only
place you can meet somebody nowis on the apps.
(21:18):
If you're approaching andtalking to a woman and in real
life at the grocery store, youalmost get a look of like why
the hell are you talking to meand why are you a creeper or
whatever else it might be?
What would you say is one ofthe most common mistakes that
men make with the dating appsand their dating profiles?
Speaker 2 (21:42):
Well, let's see the
most common mistakes that guys
make with the dating apps.
I would probably be seeing itonly from their point of view.
So the experience that men andwomen have on the dating apps is
very, very different.
So I believe the most recentstatistic I heard is that for
every one message that a manreceives, the average woman
receives 18 messages.
(22:03):
So from a man's point of view,we're sitting there.
Well, why aren't you messagingme back?
Well, you've got one messageand she has 18.
There's one other dude next toyou that sent her one message.
She now has 36.
That starts to add up really,really fast and she starts to
feel very overwhelmed in thesituation.
We need to understand that ourexperience is completely valid
(22:28):
and legit and it sucks.
On dating apps, women'sexperience is very, very
different valid, legit and alsosucks, but in a whole different
kind of way.
And that is one of the mostimportant skills you can have
when you're dating as a man isto realize that women have their
(22:49):
own set of challenges that looknothing like yours.
You need to pull your head outof your own ass and realize that
there is a bigger world outthere than your own personal
frustrations.
The man that can do that isbuying for himself a whole lot
more runway, a whole lot morepatience, a whole lot more
(23:09):
acceptance and understanding,and that comes through as
relaxation and acceptance, andwomen are absolutely drawn to
that.
They warm up to it, they openup to it and they want to be in
the presence of a man that'slike that.
So the mistake that men make isyou go on the dating app and you
think you know, hot damn, hereare all these women.
I just start swiping andthey're going to message me and
(23:32):
I'm going to have all theseamazing dates.
Yeah, you're going to getdisappointed because most of
them are haven't been on therein three to six months.
Usually that's just thealgorithm, you know, doing its
magic on you and you will.
And you will also have a set ofexpectations because it gives
you this illusion of sexualabundance, of romantic abundance
, and it's an illusion, yeah,and pretty much everybody's
(23:55):
experience online is that theyget drained energetically over
time and it doesn't even takethat long.
So your best defense againstthat is to realize that it's
going to happen.
Treat it with a certain amountof distance If you can give
yourself a limited allowance ofhow often you're on it, how much
time you're on it, how manywomen you reach out to.
(24:16):
That takes a lot ofself-control and, again, that's
the last thing we want to bedoing when we're seeing
opportunities for meeting women.
Just realize there's atechnology chaperone in between
the two of you and thatchaperone doesn't have your best
interests or her best interestsat heart.
That virtual technicalchaperone is interested in both
(24:41):
of you spending as much time andpotentially money on the app as
possible and that chaperone isa gateway that is regulating and
limiting the exchange.
We don't really know when wesend a message, when that
message comes through on theother side.
We don't know what percentagecomes through.
We don't know what the timingis.
There are all kinds of unknowns.
(25:03):
We have the illusion of itbeing an open, transparent
medium and channel ofcommunication.
The truth is we don't know thatthere's a business making money
in between the two of us that'sactually deciding how that
plays out.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Yeah, so yeah,
basically you're saying it's an
inefficient, ineffective way todo it.
That seems like it is betterthan it is.
I don't know if you've everread the book Dataclysm written
by the founder of OKCupid, butit's a fascinating read.
At least the first half of thebook is fascinating.
(25:38):
The second half of the booksucks because he just complains
about the state of the country,etc.
But the first half of the bookis all of the data that they
have garnered from peopleposting their profiles on
OkCupid and then surveys thatthey've sent out to people and
trying to understand how to maketheir user experience better,
(26:00):
and so the data is really,really fascinating.
But one of the things that theytalk about in the book is that
it takes something like ahundred plus I think it was like
127 messages to get one replyfrom a woman.
And so when you think of ofthat that you've got to send,
(26:21):
you've got to send hundreds ofmessages.
And then so if you extrapolatethat even further, if you've got
a 10% conversion rate on those10 replies to getting a date,
you're literally sending youknow, five, six, 700 messages to
somebody, and that's only ifyou're good at sending messages
and or you're really incrediblygood looking and they want to
(26:44):
respond to you right away.
So it's really an interestingit's just a really interesting
world that it is.
Now I want to interject what Isee as the common mistake that
divorced dads make on this andlet me ask you your feedback on
(27:07):
it that that they use this astheir only form of dating.
Right, like it's just, they'rejust on the apps, they're just
hoping to get through the apps.
What you described, which isthey don't.
They have a false mindsetbecause they don't understand
what we just described about the, the, the women getting a bunch
of messages, that it takes 120messages to get a response, that
(27:28):
you've got to have the abilityto have a conversation.
If you're not good at doingthat over text, which lots of
people aren't, then that fallsby the wayside and then they get
disappointed and dejected andthen say screw it, and then
that's just a bad experienceperiod.
So what I have found is it is agood opportunity to incorporate
(27:50):
that into your dating, but youneed to do other things to
cultivate your dating life thanjust the apps.
Would you agree with that?
What's your feedback on that?
Speaker 2 (28:00):
I 100% agree.
Leaning completely on the datingapps is it is shaping your mind
and your neuropathways intoseeing romance in one particular
and very limited way.
One of the things about thedating apps and about texting
actually in general is a womanis only experiencing one or
(28:22):
maybe two facets of yourpersonality, of what it's like
to be in your presence.
And the reason I haven't usedthe dating apps in probably
about a year and a half nowmyself personally and the simple
reason is I was tired of havingmy.
I was tired of being flattenedout and put side by side with
men that offered way less than Idid in real life, and I hated
(28:46):
being nerfed in that sense touse a video game term that my,
you know, the powers, the powerups were you know, were shrunk
down into a miniature version ofwhat they are in real life.
In real life, it's a lot moredifficult to approach women.
It's a lot more difficult toopen up social interactions.
(29:07):
I'm not saying that it's notpossible.
It's very possible and you canactually get far better returns
off of that than you can online.
For sure, but one of the bestparts about focusing your
romantic and dating efforts ondifferent types of in-person
interactions is that the womancannot ignore the totality of
(29:28):
the experience that you'rebringing to her presence your
body language, your pacing, yourphysical presence, the tone of
your voice, the fact that youare reaching out in a more bold
way than somebody just shootinghey, you're cute on a dating app
.
It puts you in a wholedifferent league and that woman
(29:51):
is experiencing a much more richsnapshot of you in real life
than she is on the dating apps.
On the dating apps, I don'tremember.
I've heard Dataclysm, which wasfascinating to read.
I did read probably about halfof it.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Okay, that was the
only part that was worth it.
So, anyway, there we go yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:11):
One of the things
that was fascinating about that
was, you know, men tend to swiperight, which is saying yes to a
woman way, way more often, andwomen swipe no like crazy when
you, when you come to real life,there does seem to be that
tendency where, more you know,men are tend to be more open to
dating and casual encountersthan women are.
There's still that element, butit's taken to an extreme place
(30:36):
when you are in an online datingenvironment.
Also, for the dads out therethat are going to the speed
dating events, it's very, veryeasy in a speed dating event for
women to also quote-unquoteswipe left on you because
there's no consequence.
Also, in those environments,actually asking a woman out
again, you've been cut off atthe knees and you're not able to
(30:58):
walk with your full stride ofconfidence and masculinity.
That's part of what turns awoman on.
When I am motivated enough by myattraction for a woman in
person to ask her out, that doessomething to a woman.
I've asked women about this.
I actually collaborate with afemale dating coach, emerald
Sinclair, here in Denver, and Iasked her that question in one
(31:23):
of our meetings behind thescenes and she said you know, I
didn't even realize it until youjust said it that when a man
actually musters up the courageto ask me out, I'm much more
likely to say yes in person,because I know how much that
takes of him.
She can feel it instinctively.
The casual online dating scenestrips both sides of the
(31:48):
butterflies and the nervousnessthat's actually part of the
kindling that gets the romanticfire going.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Yeah.
So let's talk a little bitabout logistics and transparency
.
Let's get away from the.
We could talk about the appsfor all day and and I just I
want to.
I guess my point with talkingabout the apps a little bit with
with the guys because, like,like my buddy was like oh, you
gotta, you gotta get on, yougotta do this.
(32:17):
And, granted, it was 10 or 12years ago when it really was
starting to take off.
Speaker 2 (32:21):
Now it was more fun
it was.
Speaker 1 (32:24):
It was way, way
different back then than it is
now.
It's definitely challenging.
I feel like there's a lot ofpositives and maybe we'll do a
podcast episode on this of thelogistics of how to do it and
what benefits it can bring,because there's benefits to it
(32:47):
that are beyond actually justgetting a date.
It's learning how to escalate,how to ask somebody out, how to
be able to communicate a littlemore effectively, how to play.
There's all kinds of differentthings that can go into it that
are positives for you if you'vegot the right mindset, which is
the mindset not of I'm going tomeet somebody to get laid Right.
(33:09):
So so maybe we'll talk aboutthat.
But I just wanted to point thatout, because I get this from
guys all the time Like well, Iset up a profile and this sucks,
and not at all.
Can you look at my profile andit's like all right, no, we got
like way more steps that we cando than just figuring out your
pictures on your, on yourprofile called Dallas, right,
(33:30):
anyway.
So, anyway, so that that was mypoint in talking about it with
with guys.
But let's talk a little bit nowabout about logistics and
transparency, because, becausethat's a, that's an important
thing.
We're now in a different kindof a different situation where
we've got kids.
When do you bring up and talkabout kids and when or how do
(33:54):
you talk about your ex or yourdivorce?
When you're on a date or whenyou're with a woman?
Speaker 2 (34:03):
So I think it's
important to be transparent and
honest about things, and I thinkthe easiest thing would be to
ask yourself when do I want toknow that this person I'm going
on a date with has kids Earlyyou know?
Speaker 1 (34:15):
probably even before
you know I'm on the date.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
I would want to know.
Yeah, you have, you know, justlet you know, I have a couple of
kids.
You know I'm divorced but Ihave a couple of kids.
Okay, and and, and that enoughtells me, okay, okay, some
semblance of what I'm gettinginvolved with.
I know, sometimes I've been ona date and I'm surprised to find
out oh, she has two kids.
Well, at what point, you know,was this supposed to come?
I'm glad it came up on thefirst date, you know.
(34:46):
As far as talking about thedivorce, so that to me is when
we go on a date, we're there toput our best foot forward and to
enjoy each other's company andto not unload where we're coming
from on the other person.
And a divorce is one of themost traumatizing events that
(35:07):
people can go throughemotionally and psychologically
in their lives.
And I don't think that that's.
Telling someone that we've gonethrough it is one thing, diving
into the details of it is awhole other business.
And I think we want to wait tothe point where we've vetted
with each other that, okay,there's some ongoing interest,
there's some ongoing attraction,there's some connection.
You know probably even not thatyou have to be necessarily
(35:29):
exclusive, but we can see thatthis might be going somewhere.
There's some traction to it andI mean, if I would imagine if
somebody asked me, well, whathappened in your divorce?
You can say, you know, I'm opento talking about that.
But really, let's save that fora time when you know we're a
little, you know we're a littlemore connected.
You know that.
I would put that in the samecategory of like well, tell me
(35:50):
about your relationship withyour mother, you know, or
something, and you didn't havethe best relationship with your
mother.
You'd say you know, I'm totallyopen to sharing that.
But let's save that, you know,for for when we're a little
closer together and because it'sit's all about your, your
stepping into a relationshipwith someone.
You don't want to be diving intoit, you don't want to be
(36:10):
cannonballing into it, you wantto be stepping into it gradually
.
And I think there's certainthings, like logistically, if
they said this and you can say,well, yeah, I have two kids, I
have them 50% of the time, Ihave them 100% of the time.
These are logistical questions.
This gives people a certainframework.
But these are logisticalquestions.
This gives people a certainframework.
But I think, for the most part,save that until you found
(36:31):
someone that you feel you have aconnection growing.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Yeah, and if I can
just add, don't start
complaining about your ex andyour divorce off the bat.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Did I not?
Speaker 1 (36:44):
mention that.
Sorry, did I tip over that part?
Yeah, Maybe you haven'texperienced this as much as I
have, or I've heard about and Idon't know.
I don't know and maybe you havesome insight If women do this
more than the men do this.
But that to me is you know, wehate I think we both don't like
(37:06):
the term red flags, right,Because there's always a deeper
something behind what somebody'sbehavior is about, right?
But that will typically give mepause, if you will.
And so if you're doing that too, I think your line is great,
(37:27):
which is, hey, I'm completelyopen with this stuff and I love
to chat about it, but there'llbe a time and place for us to do
that when we're a little moreconnected.
I think that's a great way andthat builds a little intrigue
too.
Dallas, right, it helps her tosee that you're not defensive
number one, You're open numbertwo, but you're going to kind of
(37:52):
set the pace and the tone forthis when you feel comfortable
and when you've helped todevelop the relationship to the
point where you want to do that.
So I think that's really,really good advice for the guys.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
And the other thing
to keep in mind also is you know
, when you have children, whenyou are divorced, there's
there's stuff going on.
There's drama, you know,sometimes healthy, a lot of
times not that that's involvedwith that there's.
There's a there's a mess there,you know, of some sorts that
has to be dealt with.
And the woman that you're on adate with is asking herself how
(38:34):
much mess am I going to bedealing with with this guy?
How much do I have to deal withdrama with his ex?
How much responsibility ispotentially being imposed on me
with his children?
All of this is going throughthe woman's mind consciously,
but probably even more thanconsciously, subconsciously.
And when you say you know whatyou know, I'd love to share that
with you, but let's wait untilyou know, let's wait for a
little while before I share that.
What you're actuallydemonstrating is that you're
(38:56):
considerate of her experienceand that you are protecting her
from some of those elements.
You're not hiding it, you'renot.
You're not you're not treatingher like she can't handle it,
but you're also saying you knowwhat.
You don't need to worry aboutthat mess right now.
That's not really an issue andif this continues forward, I'm
(39:16):
more than happy to share withyou all of it, and you know what
?
It would be wonderful to beable to share this with someone,
but that's not your job rightnow.
Your job is to go out with me,have a good time and enjoy
dating and see whether or notwe're going to go that far
together.
Speaker 1 (39:31):
Yeah, and sometimes
I've found that using humor also
in those situations works good,because typically, if I've
found that a woman that might beasking one of those questions
very early on in the first orsecond date kind of has this
like list of questions thatshe's just rattling off and I
(39:52):
might be like, oh, time out.
I like I need to take a breakhere.
It's like I'm like in adeposition here.
So you know, like a joke orsomething around the fact that
she's really bringing up someand some pretty significant, you
know, deep, vulnerablequestions that are important, no
doubt, but have their time andtheir place.
Sometimes I try to offset thatwith a little bit of humor.
Speaker 2 (40:18):
One of the words just
to throw in a little tidbit,
one of the words that womenreally like is the word saving
it, and they'll usually talkabout it in sexual terms Well,
can we save that?
Or let's make it wait, make ita slow burn.
They'll use terms like that.
Well, if they're, okay, that'sgood, I like that.
(40:58):
And it's treating it andframing it as something that's
precious to you and, honestly,that will probably, in a lot of
ways, really cause her to takemore sensitivity to the fact
that, hey, maybe I am grillingthis guy a little bit and I
should actually be treating himwith more sensitivity.
Speaker 1 (41:17):
Okay, Well, so some
of what we're talking about here
is really being intentionalabout how you're going about
your dating process right, and Ihear you use the word
intentionality intentional,intentional dating often in our
conversations.
That means and also share alittle bit with the dads why
(41:49):
that's critical when you're adad dating and you have a
limited amount of time, energy,emotional bandwidth etc.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
Yeah, so when you're
intentional with your dating,
what you're really creating foryourself is clarity.
And when you have arelationship with somebody, when
you're having a discussion withsomeone, it gets messy and back
and forth and murky and it'shard to remember where we even
started.
A lot of the time when you'rein a conversation, women, a lot
(42:16):
of times, particularly whenthey're feeling very feminine
they're in a very fluid stateand their sense of what they
want and what they're feelingand what they're ready for it
can change and evolve quitequickly.
And the more we bring clarityon our side to the interaction,
(42:37):
the more that women typically isgoing to be drawn to us.
Now let me make a couple ofcaveats.
Clarity does not mean rigidity.
It doesn't mean being stiff andfixed in what you want.
You have an idea of what looksgood to you, what feels good to
you, to what you're really after, to what's important to you.
That's intentionality.
However, anybody that set agoal in life and says I really
(43:01):
want to get here, and then youget there and you realize that
goal in essence is what you wereshooting for, but the way that
it actually shows up actuallylooks quite different.
The car is a different color,it's a different city than you
thought.
I thought I was going to haveone kid and I have three.
I thought I was going to haveone kid and I have three.
But at the essence of it youstill have that car, that home,
(43:29):
that family that you werelooking for.
But you're letting it take theform that life actually delivers
.
And if you're really skillfulabout it, you'll see that
unknown arrival of what you'relooking for as a gift, of a
surprise.
And you don't know.
You know you know you like thisin bed, but with this woman,
(43:50):
the way it actually comes outand the way it actually presents
itself, you don't actually knowwhat that's going to be.
And it can be absolutelyamazing when you have the
clarity of what you're lookingfor.
For example, I was in amarriage with no sex and, god
damn it, I'm a sexual man and Iam never going to be in a
relationship that doesn't havethat again.
That would be intentional.
(44:11):
That would be clarity on my endNow what that good sex looks
like.
If I'm overly prescriptive anddominant and controlling about
what that picture is going tolook like in the end, that's not
going to work well.
But if I know it's important tome and then I allow an amazing
(44:32):
sexual connection to presentitself in whatever way comes out
the most naturally between meand this woman, then you get the
best of both worlds.
Speaker 1 (44:42):
I feel I went off a
topic a little bit what you said
on intentionality, no, no, Ithink, no, no, no, I think
that's that's perfect.
Another way that I kind ofdescribe it, to use a shooting
term, is, uh, taking aim.
Right, you, you need to, youneed to be taking aim, you need
to to have a direction.
You you might not be hittingthat target exactly how you
envisioned it, but then thatthat's where you're able to to,
(45:06):
to, like you said, be, beflexible and change course a
little bit, change, change youraim a little bit.
It's my, you'll makeadjustments as you go, and then
that's where it you know, we, weget.
And this is kind of this is kindof a societal thing, with the
whole goal making, where we, weset these goals and we're
(45:28):
fixated on what it is we want orwhere we're going or whatever
it might be.
And then I'm sure you'veexperienced this, all of us have
experienced it Then you getthere and it's like you're like,
oh, that's it, it's, it's justnot, not, not that exciting, or
it's now just let down.
What do I do now?
Whatever.
And so I'm an old guy now, I'vebeen around enough times to
(45:52):
learn that it's more about thatjourney, right, what you
described as taking aim for whatyou want, having clarity around
that, communicating thatclarity and then enjoying the
path that you're taking to getthere.
It's never going to be exactlyas you envision, but by doing
(46:18):
that, and especially for adivorced dad you're able to
mitigate all kinds of differentthings and pitfalls if you're
able to do that, because we dohave a limited amount of time
and energy and resources andemotional bandwidth and stuff.
So you really really need to dothat and be intentional about
dating.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
Let me just tack on
one other thing about being
intentional.
Let me just tack on one otherthing about being intentional.
I'm sure everybody's been inthe situation where there's a
group of people we're trying tofigure out where we want to go
to eat and nobody will make adecision.
Yeah right, women are notattracted to men that are just
(47:07):
waiting for them to pick theproverbial restaurant that we're
going to go to eat at.
They love it when a guy hasintentionality, when he has an
opinion followed by flexibility.
If you're coming to a datingsituation asking her to have
that clarity, if you're askingfor her to define what it is
that this should look like andyou're looking to be
accommodating, you're notbringing to the table one of the
(47:28):
sexiest masculine traits, whichis having a vision for where
you want to go and invitingsomeone to come and join you
with it.
That is a huge element of beingintentional in your life.
You're inviting someone else tojoin in it without them having
to to create it from their ownimagination.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
Yeah, yep, well, well
and perfectly said and, and you
, you know, we, we always godown these and we haven't even
gone really down a rabbit holeon this today, but we get into
this masculinity, fatherhood onreally down a rabbit hole on
this today, but we get into thismasculinity, fatherhood,
(48:09):
relationship stuff, and we cantalk, we can, you and I can talk
forever and ever, and so Ithink it'd be good to to chat a
little bit now about why andit's for me, it's the reason why
we decided to collaborate on aon a bigger platform together.
Do you want to share a littlebit about what we're working on
together and really the bigreason why you're here today and
(48:30):
you're chatting about dad'sdating after divorce?
Speaker 2 (48:34):
Well, I think the
fact that you said today was
going to be a 30-minute episodeand we just rounded 50 minutes
(48:56):
kind of says it.
It's that this topic is soimportant, I know and brought it
to the surface for you know,for us, for men and women to
really enjoy that we decided to,you know, to open up our own
show with it.
So Dad's Dating After Divorcethat is, the Jude Sandvall and
Dallas Bluth podcast, that wherewe dive into all of these
different aspects of dating lifeand we we tried to put the
(49:21):
slant on it that really speaksto what single dads are going
through, specific challengesthat they're facing, full
transparency.
I don't have children myselfand I have never been married,
so there is a certain amount ofyou teaching me, jude, about
what I don't know, about whatthey're going through.
But I think there's also acertain element of optimism and
(49:45):
hope and vitality that I'mbringing to the table that
hopefully rekindles a certainfreshness around dating and a
romantic life that men shouldabsolutely be experiencing
post-divorce.
Speaker 1 (50:01):
Absolutely be
experiencing post-divorce, yeah,
so, on that note, I feel likewhat you're able to bring is
that very, very focused and ithave studied it, have
exemplified it.
There's very few people Dallasthat I've talked to in my
(50:30):
lifetime that have such a keenawareness around it but not only
just a keen awareness around it, as the audience has heard
today the ability to really putit into words.
Where one goes, where one goes,oh yeah, that makes sense, it's
almost an aha and like I, like.
I mentioned in the beginning ofthe podcast and this was no
(50:51):
joke Every time we talk, I walkaway going oh yeah, Like and and
and.
So while I do, I do have theperspective, which I think is
why we this show I'm so excitedabout and the sister podcast I'm
so excited about doing what I'mable to bring, like the
perspective of all the logisticsaround divorce and post-divorce
(51:13):
and co-parent and dating, whichis which is great.
You bring that really focusedaspect of the masculinity and
the relationship and how to dothat and together and for the
handful of episodes we've everdone, it just works miraculously
as far as I'm concerned in ourconversations and that's why,
(51:34):
yeah, we're at like 50 minutesalready today.
Every time we talk we say, man,like okay, we got to stop now,
but we'll be back again nextweek.
And you and I just recorded thedating after divorce.
Yesterday we talked for an hourand had to cut it off.
So, yeah, so I'm incrediblyexcited about this.
You just have an innate abilitythat I really feel.
(51:58):
When you talked in thebeginning about why you started
this, I look at you and I saythis is what he's meant to do
and I think the things that he'sgoing to bring to men and to
the dads and why I'm so excitedto the dads and our audience is
going to be life changing.
So I appreciate what you do andI appreciate your willingness
(52:22):
to collaborate on this, becauseit's been on my heart really for
years and it was never rightuntil we connected.
Speaker 2 (52:30):
Well, jude, thank you
.
I don't know that I've ever hadsuch a generous amount of
praise.
That really is awesome to hear.
I appreciate it.
I love the chemistry that wehave together.
Again, we sort of feed off eachother and the energy in the
show is wonderful.
And this might actually be agood time to mention that we're
(52:51):
actually going to open up, oncea month, an open Q&A with the
single dads there.
I don't have my calendar infront of me.
Do you have yours?
Can you throw out that?
Speaker 1 (52:59):
information.
So we're going to do a Q&A oncea month for an hour just for
you to come, get on, spend sometime with Dallas, and I talk
about what questions you mighthave, about thinking about
(53:20):
dating.
Maybe you're just thinkingabout it, or maybe you're just
diving into, just trying to getsome female companionship, or
maybe you're ready to find thatromantic partner, and so we
really just want to give anopportunity for you to ask some
of the questions that might bespecific and detailed, but, man,
like I said, there's nobodybetter than Dallas to be able to
answer those for you.
We're going to start our firstone on October 23rd.
(53:41):
We're going to start our firstone on October 23rd, and so
you'll be able to find that.
We'll have it listed up atthedivorcedadvocatecom under the
events page.
You can also find it at ourmeetup.
We'll also going to bementioned.
I'll mention it on.
We'll be mentioning it on theDad's Dating After Divorce
podcast.
So if you're looking for that,gentlemen, go to any one of the
(54:04):
major podcast platforms Spotify,apple, iheart, like anywhere.
Youtube.
You can find the show there, socheck it out.
It's already so.
This show has been doingtremendous for many, many years.
The new one is already doingway better than this one has,
even after just a month.
(54:24):
So we're pretty excited aboutwhat this brings and how this is
going to help the dads outthere and moving forward and
finding another healthyrelationship.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
Yeah, and that Q&A
session we're doing.
That is one of the freeofferings right From the
dadvocate.
Speaker 1 (54:42):
Yep, absolutely.
It's going to be 100% free andit'll be on zoom.
We'll just have that link foryou.
We'll jump on and just spend alittle bit of time together.
We will be recording those.
For those of you that are inthe divorce dadvocate membership
community the the replays willbe under the membership podcast
for you there.
But yeah, so check that out.
(55:04):
Dad's Dating After Divorce.
And then Dallas.
Where can the dads listeningget connected with you at
Blackbox Dating?
Speaker 2 (55:13):
Yeah,
blackboxdatingcom, that's the
home base for all things.
That's where you can find outabout the coaching program that
I offer.
We do a Monday mastery seriesthat has to do with internal
work, wednesday night officehours.
There's a motivational talkthat I do on a different topic
every week and guys show up withtheir message threads that they
(55:33):
have on the dating app certainsituation that they're running
into.
I mean, we dive into it.
We even do some live events andI've grabbed guys' phones and
sent messages for them.
I don't hit send, but I writeit and I wait and they're like,
all right, let's do it.
And then suddenly they have adate on Saturday when they've
been dawdling for literally amonth.
You know and not sure how to doit.
(55:54):
There we also include currentlyunder construction, is the Black
Box Academy, a 24-7 multiplecourse online university for you
to take all the differentpieces of wisdom that I've
collected over the years anddistilled down into courses on
how to have great dates withwomen, how to be confident
around women, how to get nakedand have sex with women all the
(56:14):
different elements.
And there's also a wingmancommunity, both online and
offline forum and communitywhere guys can find other men to
go out with in person to bounceideas off of, because
unfortunately I'm not alwaysavailable and that sense of
community has given a lot of themen that I work with a huge
(56:34):
boost in confidence because theydon't feel like they're going
at it alone and I think we allknow the value of having yeah,
awesome, awesome.
Speaker 1 (56:42):
So, dads, definitely
check it out.
There's nobody better than thanDallas out there that that can
help you out with this and if,as always, if you found some
value in what we shared with youtoday, please, please, give us
a star rating, give us a commenton whatever platform you're
listening on or, even better, ifyou can, if you can give us, if
(57:05):
you can share this far and wideon other social media platforms
, anywhere that you are, thatjust promotes us getting the
word out to more and other dads.
So, dallas, thanks so much.
I appreciate it, my friend.
It's always such a pleasure.
Speaker 2 (57:20):
Thank you, jude,
really appreciate you having me
on.