March 8, 2024 • 34 mins
In this episode, I interview Laura Perry Smalts, who lived for nearly a decade as a transgender man named "Jake," before realizing the deception of the transgender lifestyle and leaving it all behind. Now Laura not only embraces her true identity as a woman and shares her story at churches, conferences, and more, but she and her husband have also created a nonprofit ministry, Eden's Redemption, to help others find the same freedom she now has.
Find Laura Perry Smalts online at: https://edensredemption.org/
Order her book "Transgender to Transformed" at: https://transgendertotransformed.com/
Find me online at: https://www.donawatson.com/
Look for my new nonfiction book coming April 2024: "Be the Warrior Queen: Practical Christian Strategies for Women to Achieve Victory in a Chaotic World"
#transgender #redemption #Jesus
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dona Watson (00:00):
I am so excited to have with me today, Laura Perry
(00:03):
Smaltz, and she has an amazingstory to share with us today.
Welcome, Laura.
I'm so glad you're here with me.
Laura Perry Smalts (00:13):
Thank you so much for having me on.
Dona Watson (00:16):
It's my pleasure.
So give us a little highlight.
I know that the Lord has donesome amazing things in your
life.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself.
Laura Perry Smalts (00:28):
Yeah, the Lord has given me the amazing
opportunity to travel and speakand to share what he's done in
my life.
And I like to, you know, peoplealways ask me to share my story,
but I, I like to say that Ishare the Lord's story because
this is really all about him.
And you know, I, so I grew up ina Christian home and we were one
of those families that we wereat church every time the door
(00:49):
was open, And was involved inall the little programs.
And I remember being involved inBible drill, you know,
memorizing tons of scripture andI loved Bible drill, but I
really, I really neverunderstood the gospel.
And I think one of the thingsthat was so difficult is I grew
up being told I was a Christian.
And I think I assumed because myparents were Christians, I was
supposed to be a Christian,never really understood that it
(01:13):
was a personal decision that Ineeded to make.
And so there was thisrebelliousness in me that didn't
like the fact that I couldn'tmake my own decision.
And there was a lot of otherthings I could have pointed to.
You know, there's a lot ofpeople that have hurt me.
I really struggled in myrelationship with my mom and I,
I used to blame her for a lot ofthings, but now I've realized,
you know, we're all sinnersraising other sinners, none of
(01:33):
us could be the perfect parent.
And the reality is there is alot of brokenness in our
relationships, even the mostgodly of relationships.
We're all, we're all sinners.
And I think one of the mostprofound things that I've
learned is that children don'thave the same perspective that a
parent does.
We're all created for the Gardenof Eden.
We're created for a world that'sperfect, for a world that never
(01:55):
had any sin or pain or diseaseor war or any of these things.
And so when we encounterbrokenness, especially as a
young child, we tend to thinkit's just us.
And why is my life so bad?
You know, why did I get theshort end of the stick?
And I, I think we, we tend toblame God.
And so I think even as an earlychild, I was, as a young child,
(02:16):
I was very angry at God formaking me a girl.
I had this perception for somereason that my mom loved my
brother more than me.
I didn't understand the painthat she was going through that
she had miscarried two boysbetween my brother.
And so that was part of it.
And part of it, just personalitydifferences.
But my mom also was goingthrough a tremendous amount of
stress.
(02:36):
She was in a lot of pain.
She started having chronichealth problems.
And so a lot of my perception ofher not wanting me around, not
wanting to be with me was herjust being really too stressed
to handle life.
She's told me since then, sheused to feel like she was on
this performance treadmill forGod.
never able to do enough, neverbeing good enough.
And so, but I began tointernalize so much of that.
(02:58):
And as a result, I built wallsagainst her.
And there's a verse in Proverbsthat struck me recently that
said, he who builds a high gateinvites destruction.
And I, I think that's a lot ofwhat happens to young kids is
we, we build walls, we makeinner vows.
We say, I will never be like soand so, you know, I'll never let
that person hurt me again.
(03:19):
And, but it's kind of like, youknow, in ancient days, if a
kingdom built walls arounditself, if the enemy really
wanted to, couldn't get insidethe walls, they would just lay
siege outside.
And so the enemy uses thoseopportunities to to really
starve us in a sense.
You know, the thing I'm cuttingoff is what I needed so much.
I needed the love of my motherand I needed to let her in and I
(03:42):
needed to forgive her but Ididn't understand that.
And as a result, I was veryuncomfortable around girls.
I didn't know how to talk to thegirls at school.
They were weird and foreign andawkward.
Whereas I spent all my time withmy dad and my brother.
So that was very familiar.
And as I grew up, I always hadthis sense that I was not like
the other girls and I had thisdissociation and I was told over
(04:07):
and over and over many, manytimes in my childhood that I was
just like my dad.
And I know, I know it was meantwell, you know, maybe it was, I
mean, I don't understand themotivation, but kids, you know,
we desperately need bothparents.
Kids need to hear how they'relike their same sex parents.
Cause it's not aboutstereotypical interests.
God has wired and designed us.
(04:29):
And I can get into more of thatlater of what I'm studying and
really teaching on a lot now.
God has designed us, revealedthat there's over 6,500
biological differences betweenmen and women and nearly every
part of our body is designed assex specific.
There are many differencesbetween us that have nothing to
do with what we're interested inand really not, even, really not
anything to do with personality.
(04:51):
So it's easy sometimes, and Ithink the enemy kind of
capitalizes on that and says,"Oh, you're like this person."
But there's a reality to the waythat God has designed us.
It's so much deeper and moreprofound than that.
But of course, I didn'tunderstand that.
And so as a kid, as I wasgetting angry about being a
girl, wishing that I had a boybody, and I would write stories
(05:11):
about me being a boy, and reallylived in this fantasy world
playing video games a lot.
I spent enormous amounts of timein video games and fantasizing
about what if I had been theboy.
And then when I was 14, I wasdiagnosed with polycystic
ovarian syndrome.
I had cysts all over my ovaries.
So I was in constant chronicexcruciating pain.
(05:32):
And I was so angry that God mademe a girl.
I didn't want my period in thefirst place.
I didn't want this female body.
And then to have that muchexcruciating pain all the time.
And then I was told I wouldlikely never get pregnant.
And I was so angry at the Lordand I really turned away from
the Lord.
I told him I would never servehim again.
I wanted nothing to do withChristians.
(05:52):
I wanted nothing to do withchurch.
I told God I wanted to sin inevery way possible because I
just wanted to hurt God and hurtmy parents that I blamed.
And so I started trying to findlove in all the wrong ways.
Got into a lot of sexual sin.
I started giving myself away forfree for, you know, any man that
(06:14):
wanted it, any man that wouldpay attention to me.
So hoping that I would find thelove that I was so desperately
longing for and to be valued andto be accepted.
Because I really never heard theword transgender.
So that wasn't even on my radarthat that was possible.
Otherwise I probably would havetried to transition at a much
younger age, but I was just noteven aware of that possibility.
(06:37):
So it was like, well, you know,if I have to live like this,
then I'm, I'm going to live in away that feels good in a way
that makes me feel valued.
So I thought that getting theattention of men would give me
the value I was seeking.
But I didn't realize that megiving myself away for free, I
was the one devaluing myself.
I was the one telling them I hadno value because I used to blame
(06:59):
these men for using me andabusing me.
I felt I was rejected and dumpedand just abused over and over
and over and over again.
But the Lord revealed to methat, later, that, you know, I
was the one telling them I hadno value.
And it was kind of, God gave mean analogy this summer as my
husband and I had a garage sale.
And we, we finally put thistable out there marked"free" and
(07:22):
just all this junk we didn'twant and you know, things that
are labeled free have no value.
And it's like, it, it might beuseful to someone for a little
bit, but there, that's not goingto be some real treasure.
And I didn't understand thevalue that I had and how God saw
me as a woman and how heintended for a man to see a wife
(07:42):
as such a valued treasure.
So I was just so broken and Ifelt so used.
And I remember thinking thereason this never works out, the
reason I'm never happy isbecause I was supposed to be the
man.
If I was the man, I know how totreat a woman.
And so I, I found a supportgroup in Tulsa.
I literally just startedresearching this idea on Google.
Does anyone ever felt like this?
(08:02):
And then I began to discover theword transgender.
I found all these people thatfelt like I did.
I found a support group.
And within five minutes of thesupport group, they're like, Oh,
you are definitely transgender.
I was like,"I knew that! I knewthis was me." And so that's
really what began.
In fact, I remember one of themsaid, I was worried I would
never look like a man.
They said,"Oh, don't worry aboutit.
After a year or so of hormones,no one will ever know you were a
(08:24):
girl." And that's really whatbegan to set that hook in me and
begin to draw me into thatlifestyle.
But the further I went in thatlifestyle, I had all the legal
changes, like hormones for nineyears.
You know, I began to get facialhair and body hair, voice begin
to get lower, and it seemed likeit was getting real, but I was
so aware that this wasartificial.
I was binding my breasts.
(08:45):
I was injecting myself withtestosterones, like in a sense,
like I kept trying to convincemyself this is who I was born
as.
I was supposed to be a male.
I just somehow had the wrongbody, but I knew I was doing
this artificially.
And then I, a couple yearslater, I had a double mastectomy
and eventually I had ahysterectomy and had the ovaries
removed.
(09:06):
And I remember being sodevastated because I realized
that this didn't make me a man.
And no matter what I was doingto my body, this wasn't real.
And sorry.
Dona Watson (09:22):
No that's fine.
Laura Perry Smalts (09:23):
It still gets very emotional for me.
But I remember being sodevastated and realizing that no
matter what I was doing to mybody, I was never going to be a
man.
And I began to wonder, what doesit even mean to be a man or a
woman?
I really didn't know.
And, but I had so many peoplearound me.
My parents never affirmed it,but I had so many people around
me that did.
(09:44):
And I remember I had this jobwhere I was only known as male.
They didn't even know I wastrans.
And I was standing in this groupof guys one day, just talking to
them.
And I had this deep realization,not just this feeling of not
feeling like I fit in.
That was different.
But this was a deep innerknowing that had to be from the
Lord, but I just couldn't escapeit that I knew at the core of my
(10:04):
being that I was not like them,there was something different.
There was something thatseparated me that was like I, I
just understood that there was adifference between male and
female and I was never going tobe a man.
And I began to wonder, what doesthat even mean?
I don't know what it means to bea man or a woman.
But during that time, and I gotvery suicidal I, I just
couldn't, there was no way Iwanted to go back to being a
(10:26):
woman.
I realized I couldn't be a man;there was no way I wanted to be
a woman, it was just toopainful, and I really didn't
even know why it was so painful.
All I know is I just cringedevery time I thought about being
a woman.
I just would rather die, but theLord had been pursuing me during
that time.
God began to reveal himself tome and my parents were praying
and they got a lot of otherpeople praying with them and the
(10:48):
whole church was praying and theLord just began to pursue me and
I can't explain it other thanGod just began to draw my heart
back and he began to revealhimself to me through a series
of lots of events, lots ofthings he brought into my life:
over the radio, people hebrought into my life you know,
tracts that were left on my car,all kinds of things.
(11:08):
And the Lord began to revealhimself to me.
You know, it's the, the Biblesays it's the goodness of God
that leads to repentance.
And the thing that I've learned,there's so much connection
between bitterness andunforgiveness, being bitter
about our circumstances, beingangry at God for things that
happen in our life.
(11:29):
A couple of years ago, the Lord,I was watching hundreds and
hundreds of testimonies oneweekend of just all walks of
life from, you know, theselittle testimony videos.
And in almost every case, therewas some form of this question
that, that turned them away fromthe Lord.
Some, maybe not the exact words,but something to the idea of:"if
God is good, why did he allowthis in my life?" And I realized
(11:50):
that in most cases, that's whatturns people away from the Lord
and sin becomes more enticing aswe turn our heart away from the
Lord.
And I realized that, you know,the flip side of that is, it's
the goodness of God that leadsto repentance.
So as God began to revealhimself to me and how good he
(12:10):
is, then I began to see how muchGod loved me.
And I began to understand whoGod is.
And I began to want God in a wayI never had before.
And the other amazing thing thatafter everything that had
happened in my childhood and allthe problems I had with my mom,
the Lord had been working on herthat whole time.
And she'd really surrendered meinto the Lord's hands.
(12:30):
And as he began to transformher, I'd begin to open my eyes
to what he was doing in her.
And, you know, a lot of parentsget upset because there's,
there's these long breaks wheretheir children won't talk to
them and they've cut them out oftheir lives.
That was actually an incredibleblessing.
One, because my mom didn't haveto think about what I was doing
every day, which was good.
She didn't need to know all thesin I was in, but also it was,
(12:53):
because of that time, I was ableto see incredible changes in
her.
And every time I would get backtogether with her and my dad,
which may have been months oryears between, but I could see
what God was doing in them.
And that's ultimately a lot of,it wasn't the only thing God
used.
God used lots of other things.
I ended up at a job where myboss was a Christian.
So it's not like that.
(13:13):
God does, he has many options.
I mean, God has endlessresources.
I think sometimes we as parentsor as loved ones, we think if I,
if I'm not in my child's life,they're not ever going to hear
about Jesus.
And that's a really narcissisticview of Christianity.
And we've got to remember thatGod has resources all over the
planet, that he can use anythingto bring your child to Christ.
(13:36):
But he ended up showing me whathe'd done in my parents.
But I also want to say that hecan use you for somebody else's
life, because one of the things,God used lots of things I heard
over the radio, things left onmy car, I had this boss, but for
the most part, one of my firstthoughts when I got saved is:
where were all the Christians?
I had very few people come up tome and share their faith.
(13:58):
And so we can, as Christians,why are we not out there sharing
our faith?
We're so worried about our ownchild or our own loved one, but
what about the millions of soulsaround you that need Jesus?
Are you as concerned about them?
And so that, that was one of myfirst thoughts that really
grieved me.
And so I really wanted to sharemy faith a lot.
And I, I ended up gettingradically saved.
(14:20):
The Lord so transformed me whenI gave my heart to the Lord and
begin to repent of all my sinand begin to just desperately
want the Lord and wanteverything he had for me.
And I began to pursue the Lord.
And as I did, I thought I couldbe a man of God, but the Lord
began to pursue me.
And even more and begin toconvict me of the life I was
(14:42):
living and begin to draw me outof that life and as I did, I
finally walked away from it alland it was the hardest thing
that I have ever done in mylife.
But God began to like, little bylittle, begin to heal me begin
to peel the layers off of me.
He began to, as I began toforgive my mom, as I began to
forgive those that had hurt me,as you know, I began to forgive
(15:02):
all the men that had hurt me inthe past, and I began to repent
of my own sin, and it was likelayer by layer, and as God
peeled it all away, who I reallywas began to emerge, and I began
to realize I was never thatperson--that, that identity that
I had created.
I was always who God, I wasalways the girl Laura, that God
(15:22):
had created.
And as that began to emerge, Ibegan to embrace being a woman
more, I begin to love being awoman more, and I began to love
God's design of male and female.
And I began to ask the Lord toteach me about his design of
male and female.
And then I began to desire ahusband.
(15:43):
I began to pray and God gave mea vision of traveling around the
country, with a husband sharingthese things.
I had already been travelingaround the country quite a bit,
sharing my testimony, but Godbegan to give me a vision of
teaching God's design in maleand female with a husband.
And so that's when you can seethe picture in the back there.
God brought this incredible maninto my life.
And so we were married about twoyears ago.
(16:05):
His name is Perry.
And if you're confused by thename, my maiden name is Perry.
That's why I go by Laura PerrySmalts, his first name is Perry.
So God has a sense of humor, butit's been amazing to see.
And now just recently we'veopened our own nonprofit
ministry to teach and equip thechurch on how to talk about
(16:26):
gender and sexuality and really,our heart is to teach, among
other things, but our, one ofour big focuses is to teach
God's design of male and female,and why this is so important,
the beauty that Satan is tryingto steal from these kids.
God has an incredible design formale and female that is so good.
And I think, you know, it's justbeen lost in our culture, but
(16:49):
God's ways truly are so muchbetter.
Dona Watson (16:54):
Wow.
Yes.
His ways are better.
I love how you talked about thelayers that he can peel and he
does, he does peel away.
And that he makes us to besomebody specific and no matter
what we do, no matter how far werun, we are still that person.
(17:18):
We are still that core personthat he created us to be.
And when we give ourselves tohim, he just starts peeling
those layers back.
And sometimes when we don't giveourselves to him, he still peels
those layers back.
Laura Perry Smalts (17:32):
Right.
That's great.
Dona Watson (17:35):
The hound of heaven.
Laura Perry Smalts (17:36):
Yes.
Yeah.
I did not want to be aChristian.
I didn't want to be pursued.
I did not, I didn't want God.
But over the years he softenedmy heart a little more and a
little more, profound things Iheard over the radio.
People need to not forget.
Cause sometimes when you're onradio or a podcast like this,
you think,"Oh, who, you know,nobody's going to listen to
(17:57):
that." And you see that a coupleof comments from scoffers or
whatever, you know, but younever know who's listening.
And it can have a profoundimpact.
Dona Watson (18:06):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I couldn't agree more.
I also love how you said aboutvalue and acceptance.
I think often that is a stickingpoint for us where the enemy
lies to us and tells us that wehave no value, that nobody loves
us, and that is just so wrong,so wrong.
(18:31):
God loves us.
If nobody else says they do, Godis there.
Laura Perry Smalts (18:37):
Right.
Dona Watson (18:39):
And pursuing us and loving us with all of his heart.
So tell me a little bit moreabout the non profit
organization that you guys areworking, that you, you just
started this up, what, thisyear?
Last year?
Laura Perry Smalts (18:53):
Yeah, no this year in, in January, it is
called Eden's Redemption.
And the reason for that, weinitially were going to call it
Created for Eden because wereally had a heart to teach
God's incredible design, thatmale and female was a good
design, even though we'rebroken, we're under the curse of
sin, but God's design is sopowerful and it, it's so
(19:15):
profound because it's not justgood, but it points to our
relationship as Christ and thebride, it represents the church
and Christ.
And so and really male andfemale really represents our
relationship with God.
And there's so manycharacteristics and aspects that
God has revealed in male andfemale, and we reflect those to
(19:36):
one another.
So those are some things thatGod really had on our heart.
And it was actually kind offunny.
It's a long story, but we werekind of devastated.
We realized that somebody elsehad already had that name and it
just felt like this.
We were really crushed becausewe really had our hearts set on
that.
And when we realized that Godwas wanting to take it a step
further and talk about theredemption of all things that
(19:58):
God has not only has created aperfect design, but that we will
all for those that belong toChrist that we will live
eternally.
Those that don't belong toChrist will die eternally.
They will miss out on God'sredemption that he's going to
create a new heaven and a newearth that will be the perfect
paradise that we were allcreated for.
(20:20):
And I love JRR Tolkien has aquote that said that we are all
well now I can't remember thequote.
Shoot.
I had it memorized at one point,but basically said that we are
all, that our whole existencebasically is soaked with the
sense of exile.
And you know, we really areexiles here.
We're longing for what we werecreated for.
(20:41):
And I think even as children,they don't realize that they're
in an imperfect and sinfulworld.
They're created.
We're all created for the Gardenof Eden.
That's what God intended.
We're born into this world ofsin.
But I think that ultimately wewant to highlight the fact that
God wants to redeem, not only inthis life and there is
(21:02):
redemption that God is doingnow.
He redeems our souls, ourspirits, redeems relationships.
There's so much healing that Godbrings, but that ultimately he
is going to redeem all ofcreation.
Everything that we're longingfor in this life are things that
God has already promised.
I think if you go back to theGarden of Eden, everything that
Adam and Eve longed for, God hadalready promised them.
(21:24):
And I think Satan tries to getus to satisfy legitimate needs
in illegitimate ways, in waysthat are not pleasing to God,
when God has already promisedthose things.
And it may not be in the way wewanted, or the way that we
thought we needed sodesperately, but God's ways are
so much better.
And so really our heart in thisministry is to teach and equip
(21:46):
the church how to talk aboutgender and sexuality, how to
reach the LGBT.
And one of the things we'regoing to be doing is creating
lots of resources ourselves, butalso connecting to lots of
resources.
So there's things that we'restill working on.
There's lots of ministriesbecause I have, I have been all
over the country talking to lotsof ministries.
So the Lord has given me lots ofconnections.
(22:09):
So now we want, I hear frompeople all the time that there's
no resources out there, and, butit's not, there are lots of
amazing resources out there.
Dona Watson (22:17):
They tend to get buried.
Laura Perry Smalts (22:20):
They do, they do, but there's lots of
them out there.
And so I, we want to helpconnect people to those
resources and help people havethe hope, Christ in this.
That God is going to redeem andrestore all this junk and
everything happening to ourculture.
That God promises that allthings will work together for
good for those who love him andare called according to his
purpose.
(22:40):
One thing I've seen is that thishas really woken up the church.
And you can, I mean, it was likethe church was asleep for so
long, and like the church ofLaodicea in Revelation, and for
decades, the church did not dealwith LGBT at all.
Many churches wouldn't talkabout it, many churches wouldn't
even allow them in theircongregations, you know, or and
(23:02):
it was just like, even, I'veeven heard many stories from
back in like 20, 30 years ago,people that had come out of
those lifestyles and wererepentant still weren't allowed
in congregation.
You know, I'm certainly not foraffirming and celebrating
anybody's sin, but for peoplethat are repentant for who are
trying to change their life, whohave come to Christ and they
still weren't allowed in thechurch.
(23:22):
And so I think as a result, Godbrought it to our front door
because now this is in everychurch that I have, I've been to
so many churches.
Every church is dealing withthis and I think it's really
woken up the church and I've,I'm seeing parents now getting
radically on fire for Jesus.
And it is so exciting to me tosee them catch that vision of
(23:43):
what God wants for them in thislife now.
Cause I think we tend to get sofocused on our kids and what
they need and we forget what Godwants for us.
And so I think, you know, Godhas a mission, all of us.
And that, so, that's kind of asnapshot though of what we're,
our heart really is to to helpthe parents and to equip them
(24:05):
and to equip the church and thento train them to reach the LGBT.
Dona Watson (24:11):
That is an amazing network that you're building up.
Are you still traveling and, andseeking speaking engagements?
Laura Perry Smalts (24:18):
Yeah, I do.
I, I speak all over the country.
And we do that pretty regularly.
So please reach out if you wouldlike to bring us.
My husband can't travel with meall the time.
He has a full time job at StateFarm, so he's not able to travel
with me all the time, but hedoes, he has a very gracious
boss who gives him some time offto go with me.
Dona Watson (24:38):
Oh, that's awesome.
Okay before we end, I want tomake sure we get your contact
information out there so thatpeople can do some more research
and look you up and support youin your ministry and in your
efforts.
I think this network ofconnecting resources is so
valuable.
I think that's going to be supersuper important.
(24:59):
You also have a book that youwrote, published a few years
ago.
I forget when it was.
Laura Perry Smalts (25:08):
Yeah.
Here it is.
It's,
Dona Watson (25:09):
Yeah, I've got it back here on my shelf behind me
somewhere.
Laura Perry Smalts (25:13):
Oh good.
Yeah.
Transgender to Transformed.
And that came out in 2019.
And that is a more detailedversion of my story.
You know, I do wanna update onething that is in the last
chapter that I need to update.
Transgenderism has changed somuch.
Just since I came out in 2016,there was not the media
influence that there is now,this was not being taught in
(25:34):
schools.
This was not pushed in societyreally at all.
And so there are many kids now,I talked about how, you know, in
most cases there was sexualabuse.
But now I think kids are beingabused by pornography.
It's causing the same effect assexual as like molestation.
And so many of these kids willsay,"Well, I wasn't ever
(25:56):
abused." Well, they probably,I've never, I'm sure there might
be some, but I've never known aperson who's struggled with
gender or sexuality that had notbeen involved in pornography.
And, but of course there areyoung kids now who I think are
just being really confused.
They're being told to choosetheir gender before they
understand what that means.
Here's just an example, the showabout Jazz Jennings.
(26:19):
You know, I am Jazz.
His real name is Jared from whatI've read, but he was at two
years old, came to his mom.
He said he had a dream about it,but I don't, I mean, he, he came
to his mom and said, asked,"Whenis the good fairy going to turn
my penis into a vagina?" No twoyear old has that language.
I mean, clearly somebody toldhim that and planted that idea
(26:40):
in his head.
And so, I, you know, I thinkthat happens with a lot of young
kids.
There was even a boy on adocumentary called Transhood.
Transhood is quite an insightfuldocumentary.
It is not from a Christian orformer trans perspective at all.
But they accidentally tell a lotof truth, which I think, I'm
always amazed as I watch thingsas how God always puts truth
(27:03):
even in secular sources somehow.
And so there was this boy whowas very young and he was
adamant that he was a girl-boyand he liked wearing girl's
clothes and all this.
Well, the mother and father getdivorced and apparently there
was a lot of influence from thedad.
And I don't know, they never gointo detail why that might have
been, but they get divorced andshe moves in with grandpa, and
(27:25):
grandpa's like this realmasculine guy, and the boy all
of a sudden wants nothing to dowith being a girl.
He becomes this really masculineboy.
And I think so much of it isinfluence and confusion on these
young children who can't quiteprocess what they're feeling.
So that is very different, Ithink, from what it was even 10
(27:46):
years ago.
Dona Watson (27:48):
I agree.
I think some of our schooldistricts have really played a
huge role in, I don't know whatthe word is, propaganda.
Laura Perry Smalts (28:02):
Right.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
In fact, I remember a story.
A friend that she knew, who hadtwin girls that were four years
old, they were in preschool, andthey came home one day and they
said,"Mom, guess what we learnedin school today?" And she's
thinking, a new color, a newletter.
And one of them said,"We learnedwe might have boys inside us."
(28:25):
And they were four.
But that's what they told them.
These kids, I mean, they have nochance when they're, when
they're being confused at thatearly of an age.
And I did some research onetime, there were 82 that I could
find, this was about three yearsago.
But at that time, there were 82cartoons targeted to very young
(28:45):
children that had LGBTQcharacters.
And in fact, one of the most,there was a song about pride
from, that was have featured adrag queen and these really,
really bright colors.
And honestly, this song is socatchy.
Every time I've worked on videoedit, editing some videos to
show clips of this, like in mypresentations or in other
videos, and this song is socatchy, it gets stuck in my head
(29:08):
for hours.
I can't imagine what these kids,this was played on Nick Jr.
to like, you know, three, four,five year olds and it's a song
about pride and loving who youare.
Doesn't it feel great to be whoyou are on the inside?
The lyrics are just full ofpropaganda.
And so these kids are beingconfused at young ages.
Dona Watson (29:30):
I think as Christians, one thing that we
forget is that Satan was God'sworship leader in heaven,
Laura Perry Smalts (29:37):
So true.
Dona Watson (29:38):
He was one of the first creators of beautiful
music.
Laura Perry Smalts (29:43):
Yeah,
Dona Watson (29:43):
And when you when you turn things upside down, it
goes the wrong way and Satan isvery good at creating music that
will set a mood and evenspell-like to influence you in
the way the person wrote thesong wants to be.
(30:06):
We need to be really, reallycareful with what we listen to,
with what we read, with what weexpose ourselves to, what we
allow our children to be exposedto.
My children are grown now, so Ilook back and there are some
things I wish I would have donea little bit differently.
Yeah.
Well, you, you learn.
Laura Perry Smalts (30:26):
Yeah.
Dona Watson (30:27):
You learn.
And if we can be the voice thatwill help other people, I'm all
about that.
Laura Perry Smalts (30:34):
Right.
Dona Watson (30:35):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So I highly recommend thatpeople read your book.
It's a quick read.
It's really informative.
It's raw.
It's honest.
It's so good.
Such a good book.
I read it a couple of years ago.
It's still stuck with me, I wantyou to know.
(30:56):
And it encouraged me.
Very much so.
Let's get, make sure they haveyour contact information.
Where can they find you online,Laura?
Laura Perry Smalts (31:05):
They can go to edensredemption.org.
And that is our current website.
And like I said, we are stilladding a lot to that.
Keep checking back with us.
But we also, we want to bemaking lots of Q and A videos.
That's part of what I'm workingon and some other things.
So we have a lot of good contentcoming and we will link our
(31:25):
YouTube and our social mediafrom there as well.
Once we have everything up andgoing, like I said, we are,
we're pretty new.
But I do have a lot ofexperience.
If you're interested in bookingme to speak, I've been doing
this for about six or sevenyears.
It's just that this new ministryis, I was under a different
ministry before.
So it's edensredemption.org,there's a contact page there.
Or you can also go to my oldwebsite that has my old blog and
(31:49):
order my books from there.
I don't have the ability toorder books on the new website
yet.
I've got to get that set up, butyou can go to
transgendertotransformed.com.
It's the same as the book title.
So again, that'stransgendertotransformed.com.
And check me out there as well.
Dona Watson (32:05):
I will make sure, dot com, right?
Laura Perry Smalts (32:07):
Yeah.
Dona Watson (32:08):
I'll make sure that,
Laura Perry Smalts (32:09):
It's edensredemption.org.
Dona Watson (32:10):
Got it.
I'll make sure these links arein the show notes.
Laura Perry Smalts (32:14):
Okay.
Dona Watson (32:14):
So people can just go down in the notes and click
through to where you are.
I really appreciate you comingand spending some time with us
to share your heart and yourstory.
Any other thoughts or thingsthat you want to bring up before
we close?
Laura Perry Smalts (32:33):
I just want to say to anybody out there who
may be listening who is livingas trans and I remember
especially when I came to Christand I was still living as trans
and I was so desperate to knowthat somebody else felt like I
did, that somebody had beenthere, that this was truly
possible that, that God couldchange my heart.
God has so completelytransformed me.
(32:55):
And it's been hard at times thisjourney, but it's hard to be a
Christian.
At this time, this Christianlife in this broken world is
full of tribulation.
And yet God's been so faithful.
He is, it has been worth everymoment.
And despite all the difficulty,I am so glad and so thankful
that God delivered me out ofthat lifestyle and that he has
(33:17):
redeemed and restored my life.
And so I just want to giveanyone that hope and for parents
out there, yes, keep praying foryour child, but seek the Lord
for what he wants to do in yourlife because he wants your life
to count for the kingdom as muchas theirs.
Dona Watson (33:32):
Absolutely.
No, that's, that's reallycritical.
And I want to chime in and agreewith you.
If anybody is looking for helpand having trouble finding
resources, please reach out toone of us and we will make sure
to get you connected withsomeone who can support you and
talk to you where you are.
(33:53):
We'll make sure to do that.
Thank you so much, Laura.
I appreciate you.
God bless you and your ministrywherever you go, whatever you
do.
I know that God is in this andmy prayers are with you.
Laura Perry Smalts (34:09):
Thank you.
God bless.
Dona Watson (34:11):
You too.
I am so excited to have with me today, Laura Perry
(00:03):
Smaltz, and she has an amazingstory to share with us today.
Welcome, Laura.
I'm so glad you're here with me.
Laura Perry Smalts (00:13):
Thank you so much for having me on.
Dona Watson (00:16):
It's my pleasure.
So give us a little highlight.
I know that the Lord has donesome amazing things in your
life.
Tell us a little bit aboutyourself.
Laura Perry Smalts (00:28):
Yeah, the Lord has given me the amazing
opportunity to travel and speakand to share what he's done in
my life.
And I like to, you know, peoplealways ask me to share my story,
but I, I like to say that Ishare the Lord's story because
this is really all about him.
And you know, I, so I grew up ina Christian home and we were one
of those families that we wereat church every time the door
(00:49):
was open, And was involved inall the little programs.
And I remember being involved inBible drill, you know,
memorizing tons of scripture andI loved Bible drill, but I
really, I really neverunderstood the gospel.
And I think one of the thingsthat was so difficult is I grew
up being told I was a Christian.
And I think I assumed because myparents were Christians, I was
supposed to be a Christian,never really understood that it
(01:13):
was a personal decision that Ineeded to make.
And so there was thisrebelliousness in me that didn't
like the fact that I couldn'tmake my own decision.
And there was a lot of otherthings I could have pointed to.
You know, there's a lot ofpeople that have hurt me.
I really struggled in myrelationship with my mom and I,
I used to blame her for a lot ofthings, but now I've realized,
you know, we're all sinnersraising other sinners, none of
(01:33):
us could be the perfect parent.
And the reality is there is alot of brokenness in our
relationships, even the mostgodly of relationships.
We're all, we're all sinners.
And I think one of the mostprofound things that I've
learned is that children don'thave the same perspective that a
parent does.
We're all created for the Gardenof Eden.
We're created for a world that'sperfect, for a world that never
(01:55):
had any sin or pain or diseaseor war or any of these things.
And so when we encounterbrokenness, especially as a
young child, we tend to thinkit's just us.
And why is my life so bad?
You know, why did I get theshort end of the stick?
And I, I think we, we tend toblame God.
And so I think even as an earlychild, I was, as a young child,
(02:16):
I was very angry at God formaking me a girl.
I had this perception for somereason that my mom loved my
brother more than me.
I didn't understand the painthat she was going through that
she had miscarried two boysbetween my brother.
And so that was part of it.
And part of it, just personalitydifferences.
But my mom also was goingthrough a tremendous amount of
stress.
(02:36):
She was in a lot of pain.
She started having chronichealth problems.
And so a lot of my perception ofher not wanting me around, not
wanting to be with me was herjust being really too stressed
to handle life.
She's told me since then, sheused to feel like she was on
this performance treadmill forGod.
never able to do enough, neverbeing good enough.
And so, but I began tointernalize so much of that.
(02:58):
And as a result, I built wallsagainst her.
And there's a verse in Proverbsthat struck me recently that
said, he who builds a high gateinvites destruction.
And I, I think that's a lot ofwhat happens to young kids is
we, we build walls, we makeinner vows.
We say, I will never be like soand so, you know, I'll never let
that person hurt me again.
(03:19):
And, but it's kind of like, youknow, in ancient days, if a
kingdom built walls arounditself, if the enemy really
wanted to, couldn't get insidethe walls, they would just lay
siege outside.
And so the enemy uses thoseopportunities to to really
starve us in a sense.
You know, the thing I'm cuttingoff is what I needed so much.
I needed the love of my motherand I needed to let her in and I
(03:42):
needed to forgive her but Ididn't understand that.
And as a result, I was veryuncomfortable around girls.
I didn't know how to talk to thegirls at school.
They were weird and foreign andawkward.
Whereas I spent all my time withmy dad and my brother.
So that was very familiar.
And as I grew up, I always hadthis sense that I was not like
the other girls and I had thisdissociation and I was told over
(04:07):
and over and over many, manytimes in my childhood that I was
just like my dad.
And I know, I know it was meantwell, you know, maybe it was, I
mean, I don't understand themotivation, but kids, you know,
we desperately need bothparents.
Kids need to hear how they'relike their same sex parents.
Cause it's not aboutstereotypical interests.
God has wired and designed us.
(04:29):
And I can get into more of thatlater of what I'm studying and
really teaching on a lot now.
God has designed us, revealedthat there's over 6,500
biological differences betweenmen and women and nearly every
part of our body is designed assex specific.
There are many differencesbetween us that have nothing to
do with what we're interested inand really not, even, really not
anything to do with personality.
(04:51):
So it's easy sometimes, and Ithink the enemy kind of
capitalizes on that and says,"Oh, you're like this person."
But there's a reality to the waythat God has designed us.
It's so much deeper and moreprofound than that.
But of course, I didn'tunderstand that.
And so as a kid, as I wasgetting angry about being a
girl, wishing that I had a boybody, and I would write stories
(05:11):
about me being a boy, and reallylived in this fantasy world
playing video games a lot.
I spent enormous amounts of timein video games and fantasizing
about what if I had been theboy.
And then when I was 14, I wasdiagnosed with polycystic
ovarian syndrome.
I had cysts all over my ovaries.
So I was in constant chronicexcruciating pain.
(05:32):
And I was so angry that God mademe a girl.
I didn't want my period in thefirst place.
I didn't want this female body.
And then to have that muchexcruciating pain all the time.
And then I was told I wouldlikely never get pregnant.
And I was so angry at the Lordand I really turned away from
the Lord.
I told him I would never servehim again.
I wanted nothing to do withChristians.
(05:52):
I wanted nothing to do withchurch.
I told God I wanted to sin inevery way possible because I
just wanted to hurt God and hurtmy parents that I blamed.
And so I started trying to findlove in all the wrong ways.
Got into a lot of sexual sin.
I started giving myself away forfree for, you know, any man that
(06:14):
wanted it, any man that wouldpay attention to me.
So hoping that I would find thelove that I was so desperately
longing for and to be valued andto be accepted.
Because I really never heard theword transgender.
So that wasn't even on my radarthat that was possible.
Otherwise I probably would havetried to transition at a much
younger age, but I was just noteven aware of that possibility.
(06:37):
So it was like, well, you know,if I have to live like this,
then I'm, I'm going to live in away that feels good in a way
that makes me feel valued.
So I thought that getting theattention of men would give me
the value I was seeking.
But I didn't realize that megiving myself away for free, I
was the one devaluing myself.
I was the one telling them I hadno value because I used to blame
(06:59):
these men for using me andabusing me.
I felt I was rejected and dumpedand just abused over and over
and over and over again.
But the Lord revealed to methat, later, that, you know, I
was the one telling them I hadno value.
And it was kind of, God gave mean analogy this summer as my
husband and I had a garage sale.
And we, we finally put thistable out there marked"free" and
(07:22):
just all this junk we didn'twant and you know, things that
are labeled free have no value.
And it's like, it, it might beuseful to someone for a little
bit, but there, that's not goingto be some real treasure.
And I didn't understand thevalue that I had and how God saw
me as a woman and how heintended for a man to see a wife
(07:42):
as such a valued treasure.
So I was just so broken and Ifelt so used.
And I remember thinking thereason this never works out, the
reason I'm never happy isbecause I was supposed to be the
man.
If I was the man, I know how totreat a woman.
And so I, I found a supportgroup in Tulsa.
I literally just startedresearching this idea on Google.
Does anyone ever felt like this?
(08:02):
And then I began to discover theword transgender.
I found all these people thatfelt like I did.
I found a support group.
And within five minutes of thesupport group, they're like, Oh,
you are definitely transgender.
I was like,"I knew that! I knewthis was me." And so that's
really what began.
In fact, I remember one of themsaid, I was worried I would
never look like a man.
They said,"Oh, don't worry aboutit.
After a year or so of hormones,no one will ever know you were a
(08:24):
girl." And that's really whatbegan to set that hook in me and
begin to draw me into thatlifestyle.
But the further I went in thatlifestyle, I had all the legal
changes, like hormones for nineyears.
You know, I began to get facialhair and body hair, voice begin
to get lower, and it seemed likeit was getting real, but I was
so aware that this wasartificial.
I was binding my breasts.
(08:45):
I was injecting myself withtestosterones, like in a sense,
like I kept trying to convincemyself this is who I was born
as.
I was supposed to be a male.
I just somehow had the wrongbody, but I knew I was doing
this artificially.
And then I, a couple yearslater, I had a double mastectomy
and eventually I had ahysterectomy and had the ovaries
removed.
(09:06):
And I remember being sodevastated because I realized
that this didn't make me a man.
And no matter what I was doingto my body, this wasn't real.
And sorry.
Dona Watson (09:22):
No that's fine.
Laura Perry Smalts (09:23):
It still gets very emotional for me.
But I remember being sodevastated and realizing that no
matter what I was doing to mybody, I was never going to be a
man.
And I began to wonder, what doesit even mean to be a man or a
woman?
I really didn't know.
And, but I had so many peoplearound me.
My parents never affirmed it,but I had so many people around
me that did.
(09:44):
And I remember I had this jobwhere I was only known as male.
They didn't even know I wastrans.
And I was standing in this groupof guys one day, just talking to
them.
And I had this deep realization,not just this feeling of not
feeling like I fit in.
That was different.
But this was a deep innerknowing that had to be from the
Lord, but I just couldn't escapeit that I knew at the core of my
(10:04):
being that I was not like them,there was something different.
There was something thatseparated me that was like I, I
just understood that there was adifference between male and
female and I was never going tobe a man.
And I began to wonder, what doesthat even mean?
I don't know what it means to bea man or a woman.
But during that time, and I gotvery suicidal I, I just
couldn't, there was no way Iwanted to go back to being a
(10:26):
woman.
I realized I couldn't be a man;there was no way I wanted to be
a woman, it was just toopainful, and I really didn't
even know why it was so painful.
All I know is I just cringedevery time I thought about being
a woman.
I just would rather die, but theLord had been pursuing me during
that time.
God began to reveal himself tome and my parents were praying
and they got a lot of otherpeople praying with them and the
(10:48):
whole church was praying and theLord just began to pursue me and
I can't explain it other thanGod just began to draw my heart
back and he began to revealhimself to me through a series
of lots of events, lots ofthings he brought into my life:
over the radio, people hebrought into my life you know,
tracts that were left on my car,all kinds of things.
(11:08):
And the Lord began to revealhimself to me.
You know, it's the, the Biblesays it's the goodness of God
that leads to repentance.
And the thing that I've learned,there's so much connection
between bitterness andunforgiveness, being bitter
about our circumstances, beingangry at God for things that
happen in our life.
(11:29):
A couple of years ago, the Lord,I was watching hundreds and
hundreds of testimonies oneweekend of just all walks of
life from, you know, theselittle testimony videos.
And in almost every case, therewas some form of this question
that, that turned them away fromthe Lord.
Some, maybe not the exact words,but something to the idea of:"if
God is good, why did he allowthis in my life?" And I realized
(11:50):
that in most cases, that's whatturns people away from the Lord
and sin becomes more enticing aswe turn our heart away from the
Lord.
And I realized that, you know,the flip side of that is, it's
the goodness of God that leadsto repentance.
So as God began to revealhimself to me and how good he
(12:10):
is, then I began to see how muchGod loved me.
And I began to understand whoGod is.
And I began to want God in a wayI never had before.
And the other amazing thing thatafter everything that had
happened in my childhood and allthe problems I had with my mom,
the Lord had been working on herthat whole time.
And she'd really surrendered meinto the Lord's hands.
(12:30):
And as he began to transformher, I'd begin to open my eyes
to what he was doing in her.
And, you know, a lot of parentsget upset because there's,
there's these long breaks wheretheir children won't talk to
them and they've cut them out oftheir lives.
That was actually an incredibleblessing.
One, because my mom didn't haveto think about what I was doing
every day, which was good.
She didn't need to know all thesin I was in, but also it was,
(12:53):
because of that time, I was ableto see incredible changes in
her.
And every time I would get backtogether with her and my dad,
which may have been months oryears between, but I could see
what God was doing in them.
And that's ultimately a lot of,it wasn't the only thing God
used.
God used lots of other things.
I ended up at a job where myboss was a Christian.
So it's not like that.
(13:13):
God does, he has many options.
I mean, God has endlessresources.
I think sometimes we as parentsor as loved ones, we think if I,
if I'm not in my child's life,they're not ever going to hear
about Jesus.
And that's a really narcissisticview of Christianity.
And we've got to remember thatGod has resources all over the
planet, that he can use anythingto bring your child to Christ.
(13:36):
But he ended up showing me whathe'd done in my parents.
But I also want to say that hecan use you for somebody else's
life, because one of the things,God used lots of things I heard
over the radio, things left onmy car, I had this boss, but for
the most part, one of my firstthoughts when I got saved is:
where were all the Christians?
I had very few people come up tome and share their faith.
(13:58):
And so we can, as Christians,why are we not out there sharing
our faith?
We're so worried about our ownchild or our own loved one, but
what about the millions of soulsaround you that need Jesus?
Are you as concerned about them?
And so that, that was one of myfirst thoughts that really
grieved me.
And so I really wanted to sharemy faith a lot.
And I, I ended up gettingradically saved.
(14:20):
The Lord so transformed me whenI gave my heart to the Lord and
begin to repent of all my sinand begin to just desperately
want the Lord and wanteverything he had for me.
And I began to pursue the Lord.
And as I did, I thought I couldbe a man of God, but the Lord
began to pursue me.
And even more and begin toconvict me of the life I was
(14:42):
living and begin to draw me outof that life and as I did, I
finally walked away from it alland it was the hardest thing
that I have ever done in mylife.
But God began to like, little bylittle, begin to heal me begin
to peel the layers off of me.
He began to, as I began toforgive my mom, as I began to
forgive those that had hurt me,as you know, I began to forgive
(15:02):
all the men that had hurt me inthe past, and I began to repent
of my own sin, and it was likelayer by layer, and as God
peeled it all away, who I reallywas began to emerge, and I began
to realize I was never thatperson--that, that identity that
I had created.
I was always who God, I wasalways the girl Laura, that God
(15:22):
had created.
And as that began to emerge, Ibegan to embrace being a woman
more, I begin to love being awoman more, and I began to love
God's design of male and female.
And I began to ask the Lord toteach me about his design of
male and female.
And then I began to desire ahusband.
(15:43):
I began to pray and God gave mea vision of traveling around the
country, with a husband sharingthese things.
I had already been travelingaround the country quite a bit,
sharing my testimony, but Godbegan to give me a vision of
teaching God's design in maleand female with a husband.
And so that's when you can seethe picture in the back there.
God brought this incredible maninto my life.
And so we were married about twoyears ago.
(16:05):
His name is Perry.
And if you're confused by thename, my maiden name is Perry.
That's why I go by Laura PerrySmalts, his first name is Perry.
So God has a sense of humor, butit's been amazing to see.
And now just recently we'veopened our own nonprofit
ministry to teach and equip thechurch on how to talk about
(16:26):
gender and sexuality and really,our heart is to teach, among
other things, but our, one ofour big focuses is to teach
God's design of male and female,and why this is so important,
the beauty that Satan is tryingto steal from these kids.
God has an incredible design formale and female that is so good.
And I think, you know, it's justbeen lost in our culture, but
(16:49):
God's ways truly are so muchbetter.
Dona Watson (16:54):
Wow.
Yes.
His ways are better.
I love how you talked about thelayers that he can peel and he
does, he does peel away.
And that he makes us to besomebody specific and no matter
what we do, no matter how far werun, we are still that person.
(17:18):
We are still that core personthat he created us to be.
And when we give ourselves tohim, he just starts peeling
those layers back.
And sometimes when we don't giveourselves to him, he still peels
those layers back.
Laura Perry Smalts (17:32):
Right.
That's great.
Dona Watson (17:35):
The hound of heaven.
Laura Perry Smalts (17:36):
Yes.
Yeah.
I did not want to be aChristian.
I didn't want to be pursued.
I did not, I didn't want God.
But over the years he softenedmy heart a little more and a
little more, profound things Iheard over the radio.
People need to not forget.
Cause sometimes when you're onradio or a podcast like this,
you think,"Oh, who, you know,nobody's going to listen to
(17:57):
that." And you see that a coupleof comments from scoffers or
whatever, you know, but younever know who's listening.
And it can have a profoundimpact.
Dona Watson (18:06):
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
I couldn't agree more.
I also love how you said aboutvalue and acceptance.
I think often that is a stickingpoint for us where the enemy
lies to us and tells us that wehave no value, that nobody loves
us, and that is just so wrong,so wrong.
(18:31):
God loves us.
If nobody else says they do, Godis there.
Laura Perry Smalts (18:37):
Right.
Dona Watson (18:39):
And pursuing us and loving us with all of his heart.
So tell me a little bit moreabout the non profit
organization that you guys areworking, that you, you just
started this up, what, thisyear?
Last year?
Laura Perry Smalts (18:53):
Yeah, no this year in, in January, it is
called Eden's Redemption.
And the reason for that, weinitially were going to call it
Created for Eden because wereally had a heart to teach
God's incredible design, thatmale and female was a good
design, even though we'rebroken, we're under the curse of
sin, but God's design is sopowerful and it, it's so
(19:15):
profound because it's not justgood, but it points to our
relationship as Christ and thebride, it represents the church
and Christ.
And so and really male andfemale really represents our
relationship with God.
And there's so manycharacteristics and aspects that
God has revealed in male andfemale, and we reflect those to
(19:36):
one another.
So those are some things thatGod really had on our heart.
And it was actually kind offunny.
It's a long story, but we werekind of devastated.
We realized that somebody elsehad already had that name and it
just felt like this.
We were really crushed becausewe really had our hearts set on
that.
And when we realized that Godwas wanting to take it a step
further and talk about theredemption of all things that
(19:58):
God has not only has created aperfect design, but that we will
all for those that belong toChrist that we will live
eternally.
Those that don't belong toChrist will die eternally.
They will miss out on God'sredemption that he's going to
create a new heaven and a newearth that will be the perfect
paradise that we were allcreated for.
(20:20):
And I love JRR Tolkien has aquote that said that we are all
well now I can't remember thequote.
Shoot.
I had it memorized at one point,but basically said that we are
all, that our whole existencebasically is soaked with the
sense of exile.
And you know, we really areexiles here.
We're longing for what we werecreated for.
(20:41):
And I think even as children,they don't realize that they're
in an imperfect and sinfulworld.
They're created.
We're all created for the Gardenof Eden.
That's what God intended.
We're born into this world ofsin.
But I think that ultimately wewant to highlight the fact that
God wants to redeem, not only inthis life and there is
(21:02):
redemption that God is doingnow.
He redeems our souls, ourspirits, redeems relationships.
There's so much healing that Godbrings, but that ultimately he
is going to redeem all ofcreation.
Everything that we're longingfor in this life are things that
God has already promised.
I think if you go back to theGarden of Eden, everything that
Adam and Eve longed for, God hadalready promised them.
(21:24):
And I think Satan tries to getus to satisfy legitimate needs
in illegitimate ways, in waysthat are not pleasing to God,
when God has already promisedthose things.
And it may not be in the way wewanted, or the way that we
thought we needed sodesperately, but God's ways are
so much better.
And so really our heart in thisministry is to teach and equip
(21:46):
the church how to talk aboutgender and sexuality, how to
reach the LGBT.
And one of the things we'regoing to be doing is creating
lots of resources ourselves, butalso connecting to lots of
resources.
So there's things that we'restill working on.
There's lots of ministriesbecause I have, I have been all
over the country talking to lotsof ministries.
So the Lord has given me lots ofconnections.
(22:09):
So now we want, I hear frompeople all the time that there's
no resources out there, and, butit's not, there are lots of
amazing resources out there.
Dona Watson (22:17):
They tend to get buried.
Laura Perry Smalts (22:20):
They do, they do, but there's lots of
them out there.
And so I, we want to helpconnect people to those
resources and help people havethe hope, Christ in this.
That God is going to redeem andrestore all this junk and
everything happening to ourculture.
That God promises that allthings will work together for
good for those who love him andare called according to his
purpose.
(22:40):
One thing I've seen is that thishas really woken up the church.
And you can, I mean, it was likethe church was asleep for so
long, and like the church ofLaodicea in Revelation, and for
decades, the church did not dealwith LGBT at all.
Many churches wouldn't talkabout it, many churches wouldn't
even allow them in theircongregations, you know, or and
(23:02):
it was just like, even, I'veeven heard many stories from
back in like 20, 30 years ago,people that had come out of
those lifestyles and wererepentant still weren't allowed
in congregation.
You know, I'm certainly not foraffirming and celebrating
anybody's sin, but for peoplethat are repentant for who are
trying to change their life, whohave come to Christ and they
still weren't allowed in thechurch.
(23:22):
And so I think as a result, Godbrought it to our front door
because now this is in everychurch that I have, I've been to
so many churches.
Every church is dealing withthis and I think it's really
woken up the church and I've,I'm seeing parents now getting
radically on fire for Jesus.
And it is so exciting to me tosee them catch that vision of
(23:43):
what God wants for them in thislife now.
Cause I think we tend to get sofocused on our kids and what
they need and we forget what Godwants for us.
And so I think, you know, Godhas a mission, all of us.
And that, so, that's kind of asnapshot though of what we're,
our heart really is to to helpthe parents and to equip them
(24:05):
and to equip the church and thento train them to reach the LGBT.
Dona Watson (24:11):
That is an amazing network that you're building up.
Are you still traveling and, andseeking speaking engagements?
Laura Perry Smalts (24:18):
Yeah, I do.
I, I speak all over the country.
And we do that pretty regularly.
So please reach out if you wouldlike to bring us.
My husband can't travel with meall the time.
He has a full time job at StateFarm, so he's not able to travel
with me all the time, but hedoes, he has a very gracious
boss who gives him some time offto go with me.
Dona Watson (24:38):
Oh, that's awesome.
Okay before we end, I want tomake sure we get your contact
information out there so thatpeople can do some more research
and look you up and support youin your ministry and in your
efforts.
I think this network ofconnecting resources is so
valuable.
I think that's going to be supersuper important.
(24:59):
You also have a book that youwrote, published a few years
ago.
I forget when it was.
Laura Perry Smalts (25:08):
Yeah.
Here it is.
It's,
Dona Watson (25:09):
Yeah, I've got it back here on my shelf behind me
somewhere.
Laura Perry Smalts (25:13):
Oh good.
Yeah.
Transgender to Transformed.
And that came out in 2019.
And that is a more detailedversion of my story.
You know, I do wanna update onething that is in the last
chapter that I need to update.
Transgenderism has changed somuch.
Just since I came out in 2016,there was not the media
influence that there is now,this was not being taught in
(25:34):
schools.
This was not pushed in societyreally at all.
And so there are many kids now,I talked about how, you know, in
most cases there was sexualabuse.
But now I think kids are beingabused by pornography.
It's causing the same effect assexual as like molestation.
And so many of these kids willsay,"Well, I wasn't ever
(25:56):
abused." Well, they probably,I've never, I'm sure there might
be some, but I've never known aperson who's struggled with
gender or sexuality that had notbeen involved in pornography.
And, but of course there areyoung kids now who I think are
just being really confused.
They're being told to choosetheir gender before they
understand what that means.
Here's just an example, the showabout Jazz Jennings.
(26:19):
You know, I am Jazz.
His real name is Jared from whatI've read, but he was at two
years old, came to his mom.
He said he had a dream about it,but I don't, I mean, he, he came
to his mom and said, asked,"Whenis the good fairy going to turn
my penis into a vagina?" No twoyear old has that language.
I mean, clearly somebody toldhim that and planted that idea
(26:40):
in his head.
And so, I, you know, I thinkthat happens with a lot of young
kids.
There was even a boy on adocumentary called Transhood.
Transhood is quite an insightfuldocumentary.
It is not from a Christian orformer trans perspective at all.
But they accidentally tell a lotof truth, which I think, I'm
always amazed as I watch thingsas how God always puts truth
(27:03):
even in secular sources somehow.
And so there was this boy whowas very young and he was
adamant that he was a girl-boyand he liked wearing girl's
clothes and all this.
Well, the mother and father getdivorced and apparently there
was a lot of influence from thedad.
And I don't know, they never gointo detail why that might have
been, but they get divorced andshe moves in with grandpa, and
(27:25):
grandpa's like this realmasculine guy, and the boy all
of a sudden wants nothing to dowith being a girl.
He becomes this really masculineboy.
And I think so much of it isinfluence and confusion on these
young children who can't quiteprocess what they're feeling.
So that is very different, Ithink, from what it was even 10
(27:46):
years ago.
Dona Watson (27:48):
I agree.
I think some of our schooldistricts have really played a
huge role in, I don't know whatthe word is, propaganda.
Laura Perry Smalts (28:02):
Right.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
In fact, I remember a story.
A friend that she knew, who hadtwin girls that were four years
old, they were in preschool, andthey came home one day and they
said,"Mom, guess what we learnedin school today?" And she's
thinking, a new color, a newletter.
And one of them said,"We learnedwe might have boys inside us."
(28:25):
And they were four.
But that's what they told them.
These kids, I mean, they have nochance when they're, when
they're being confused at thatearly of an age.
And I did some research onetime, there were 82 that I could
find, this was about three yearsago.
But at that time, there were 82cartoons targeted to very young
(28:45):
children that had LGBTQcharacters.
And in fact, one of the most,there was a song about pride
from, that was have featured adrag queen and these really,
really bright colors.
And honestly, this song is socatchy.
Every time I've worked on videoedit, editing some videos to
show clips of this, like in mypresentations or in other
videos, and this song is socatchy, it gets stuck in my head
(29:08):
for hours.
I can't imagine what these kids,this was played on Nick Jr.
to like, you know, three, four,five year olds and it's a song
about pride and loving who youare.
Doesn't it feel great to be whoyou are on the inside?
The lyrics are just full ofpropaganda.
And so these kids are beingconfused at young ages.
Dona Watson (29:30):
I think as Christians, one thing that we
forget is that Satan was God'sworship leader in heaven,
Laura Perry Smalts (29:37):
So true.
Dona Watson (29:38):
He was one of the first creators of beautiful
music.
Laura Perry Smalts (29:43):
Yeah,
Dona Watson (29:43):
And when you when you turn things upside down, it
goes the wrong way and Satan isvery good at creating music that
will set a mood and evenspell-like to influence you in
the way the person wrote thesong wants to be.
(30:06):
We need to be really, reallycareful with what we listen to,
with what we read, with what weexpose ourselves to, what we
allow our children to be exposedto.
My children are grown now, so Ilook back and there are some
things I wish I would have donea little bit differently.
Yeah.
Well, you, you learn.
Laura Perry Smalts (30:26):
Yeah.
Dona Watson (30:27):
You learn.
And if we can be the voice thatwill help other people, I'm all
about that.
Laura Perry Smalts (30:34):
Right.
Dona Watson (30:35):
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So I highly recommend thatpeople read your book.
It's a quick read.
It's really informative.
It's raw.
It's honest.
It's so good.
Such a good book.
I read it a couple of years ago.
It's still stuck with me, I wantyou to know.
(30:56):
And it encouraged me.
Very much so.
Let's get, make sure they haveyour contact information.
Where can they find you online,Laura?
Laura Perry Smalts (31:05):
They can go to edensredemption.org.
And that is our current website.
And like I said, we are stilladding a lot to that.
Keep checking back with us.
But we also, we want to bemaking lots of Q and A videos.
That's part of what I'm workingon and some other things.
So we have a lot of good contentcoming and we will link our
(31:25):
YouTube and our social mediafrom there as well.
Once we have everything up andgoing, like I said, we are,
we're pretty new.
But I do have a lot ofexperience.
If you're interested in bookingme to speak, I've been doing
this for about six or sevenyears.
It's just that this new ministryis, I was under a different
ministry before.
So it's edensredemption.org,there's a contact page there.
Or you can also go to my oldwebsite that has my old blog and
(31:49):
order my books from there.
I don't have the ability toorder books on the new website
yet.
I've got to get that set up, butyou can go to
transgendertotransformed.com.
It's the same as the book title.
So again, that'stransgendertotransformed.com.
And check me out there as well.
Dona Watson (32:05):
I will make sure, dot com, right?
Laura Perry Smalts (32:07):
Yeah.
Dona Watson (32:08):
I'll make sure that,
Laura Perry Smalts (32:09):
It's edensredemption.org.
Dona Watson (32:10):
Got it.
I'll make sure these links arein the show notes.
Laura Perry Smalts (32:14):
Okay.
Dona Watson (32:14):
So people can just go down in the notes and click
through to where you are.
I really appreciate you comingand spending some time with us
to share your heart and yourstory.
Any other thoughts or thingsthat you want to bring up before
we close?
Laura Perry Smalts (32:33):
I just want to say to anybody out there who
may be listening who is livingas trans and I remember
especially when I came to Christand I was still living as trans
and I was so desperate to knowthat somebody else felt like I
did, that somebody had beenthere, that this was truly
possible that, that God couldchange my heart.
God has so completelytransformed me.
(32:55):
And it's been hard at times thisjourney, but it's hard to be a
Christian.
At this time, this Christianlife in this broken world is
full of tribulation.
And yet God's been so faithful.
He is, it has been worth everymoment.
And despite all the difficulty,I am so glad and so thankful
that God delivered me out ofthat lifestyle and that he has
(33:17):
redeemed and restored my life.
And so I just want to giveanyone that hope and for parents
out there, yes, keep praying foryour child, but seek the Lord
for what he wants to do in yourlife because he wants your life
to count for the kingdom as muchas theirs.
Dona Watson (33:32):
Absolutely.
No, that's, that's reallycritical.
And I want to chime in and agreewith you.
If anybody is looking for helpand having trouble finding
resources, please reach out toone of us and we will make sure
to get you connected withsomeone who can support you and
talk to you where you are.
(33:53):
We'll make sure to do that.
Thank you so much, Laura.
I appreciate you.
God bless you and your ministrywherever you go, whatever you
do.
I know that God is in this andmy prayers are with you.
Laura Perry Smalts (34:09):
Thank you.
God bless.
Dona Watson (34:11):
You too.
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