February 14, 2025 • 57 mins
Join us as we sit down with the manager of one of Western Europe's largest brothels. Catherine De Noire has her master's degree in organizational psychology and sociology and is currently in a PhD program to continue her research in managing legal sex work and diving into sex workers' experiences within their work. We had such a delight interviewing her to hear about her unique perspective on the sex industry and talk about our aligned values in advocating for sex positivity, swinging, polyamory, and so on...
Guest(s): Catherine De Noire
Hosts and Producers: Cali, Fox, and Ruby
Follow and DM us on: Instagram
Sponsor(s): CouplesNextDoor.com and Seek, Discover, Connect (SDC)
SDC Promo code: 37887 (Sign up today for a free trial and we'll be notified of any new member who officially decides to seek, discover, and connect. We will reach out to you personally!)
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Before we begin the first episode of Season 3, I wanted to
take a second to acknowledge that we had some extremely
difficult audio quality issues, as our guest was on the other
side of the world while recording, and we actually had
almost 15 hours of editing on this episode, including bringing
in a professional to scrub the data and remove the echoes.
That said, please excuse any short audio anomalies during
(00:23):
this episode. Welcome to the Down and Dirty
podcast. This is your home for tuning
into topics such as sex positivity, swinging, polyamory,
E&M, and everything in between. We are your throuple swinger
host Callie Ruby and me Fox. This show contains explicit
(00:46):
content and is for 18 plus only.With that said, enjoy the show.
Welcome back Sex Positive Nation.
We're so excited to be here for Season 3.
I already just got double goosebumps.
You know how I do that right offthe bat because I'm so excited
for our guests today. So excited to start Season 3.
I'm your host. Fox and the other hosts of the
(01:08):
show are here as well. I'm Callie and Ruby.
Thank you so much for joining us.
We are so thrilled to introduce our guest for today's show,
Catherine Day Noir. She is a brothel manager for one
of the biggest brothels in Europe and one of the only
female brothel managers in the world.
She has over a half a million followers on her socials and is
(01:30):
a leader in the sex positive community.
With a master's in organizational psychology and
sociology, She provides a uniqueperspective on the sex industry
and normalizes the human need for sex.
She emphasizes the importance ofcreating a safe environment and
is able to do so with the legality of sex work in her
country. Welcome, Catherine.
(01:51):
Thank you so much for joining ustoday.
Good. Well, first of all, thank you
for having me. It's a pleasure.
So I'm 31 years old. I live in Europe and for the
past 8 1/2 years I've been a manager of one of the biggest
brothels here. I also study PHDI, study
(02:15):
psychology and my topics are management of legal sex work and
sex workers experience with the work itself.
And as you said, I like to talk about the sex sex industry and
the things behind the scenes. So this is basically what I do.
(02:35):
Yes, you give. People a safe place to explore
their desires and fantasies. And we know a lot of our
listeners are swinger based. And so, Catherine, you are also
a swinger, is that correct? Yeah.
Can you tell us A. Little bit about that, what that
looks like for you in your worldand just how long you've been in
that lifestyle. So I basically started to go to
(02:59):
swingers when I was 18 years old, which is I think the legal
age here, here in my country. It was like a huge coincidence.
One of my friends, he wanted to go there and I was like, yeah,
let's just try it because I was always very, very sexually open.
You know, I like to try different things.
And when he came to me and he was like, yeah, but I need like
(03:21):
a girl with me because I don't know if you have this in in the
US, but here in Europe, in most of the clubs, when you are a
single guy, you can enter. So you always need to go in a
pair. He kind of came to me and he was
like, yeah, well, do you want tojoin me?
I was like, yeah, I want to, youknow, let's just try it.
(03:44):
The first experience was like a little bit weird because we got
drunk on tequila. So we got like a little bit
drunk. And then we went there and we
were basically the youngest one there.
So that was like a little bit awkward.
But then I kind of decided to give it one more chance and I
went to the different club, I went by myself and it was great.
(04:06):
So I love the experience and then I kind of decided to
explore it a little bit more because I was single.
So I kind of decide to try different clubs all over the
Europe. Is that kind of how is that kind
of what the swinger lifestyle inEurope looks like?
Is it very club based? Are there a lot of private
parties, are there events, things like that?
(04:27):
I'm just curious how it works. Some of the differences between
there and here, for example, here, a lot of the bigger things
there's there's websites, some of them specifically US based,
some of them around the world based.
But they might host like a hoteltakeover, for example, right,
where the entire swinger community in the area takes over
a hotel and maybe there's 800 people there for a whole weekend
or there could be a private house parties, right.
(04:48):
But it's kind of more low key here in the States where it's
not really something you talk about.
It's not really something you talk about at work or it's not
really something that you tell your friends about.
It's really it's. No, it's.
Very discreet. It's very discreet here though
Style here are very I think there is still a lot of stigma
(05:08):
behind open relationships here. And so that's kind of part of
our goal through this podcast isto talk about, you know, sex,
the sex positive community, talkabout non traditional
relationships, ethical non monogamy and all of that.
So yeah, we're curious what it looks like over there in Europe.
I feel like we, we Europeans, weare definitely much more open
(05:29):
because when I was visiting lastyear, Nevada and I spoke with
some Americans then they're like, oh, you are from Europe.
I heard that you are like sexually very crazy.
And I'm like, what do you mean? Like, what do you mean?
And they're like, yeah, well, weheard that there are like
topless beaches that you can be like naked there.
(05:52):
I was like, yeah, that's like normal.
That's pretty normal here. So, yeah, I mean, here in Europe
we are definitely more open whenit comes to sexuality.
So, and as, as you said, I mean,I can't imagine hiding the fact
that I used to go to swinger spot.
I I don't go there as much as I would like to right now because
(06:13):
I'm focusing on the studies and work and I just really don't
want to. I need to be in that special
mood. So here in Europe, it's like you
can either go to the clubs, especially like when you go to
Berlin. These parties are very crazy and
(06:34):
I love that. Then I used to go to to London.
Actually, there is this brand called Killing Kittens.
These are my favorite because it's like an it's like a regular
evening. You just go there with the
dresses all like sexual injury. Sometimes you need to wear a
mask and it's like in one big mansion.
(06:56):
They have like different types of the parties.
Yeah, but the the ones that I used to go to was in this huge
mansion and the guys, they are wearing like a black tuxedo.
There is a yeah, there's a dresscode.
And these are the types of the parties that that are my
(07:17):
favorites because it's also likea social event in my country.
It's mostly about the sex, whichis completely fine, but I like
to have this contact with the with the people.
You know you like an underwater.Action.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like, it's like networking
for me sometimes, you know? Sure.
Are we sex allowed at these parties as well?
(07:39):
Yeah, of course. I mean, it's like it's
definitely a part of it, but there is also this, this part
when he can just hang out with the people, talk.
And then I, I remember like few,few years ago, I was in, in
Budapest and I was there alone and I was like, yeah, well,
(08:02):
maybe I will go. I, I had like A2 glasses of wine
and I was like, yeah, today is the day for me to go to explore
like Budapest swingers parties. That was absolutely crazy.
There was like a one small villa, so I wandered there and
everybody was drinking, drinkinglike really heavily.
There was a DJ playing Hungarianlong.
(08:27):
I don't speak Hungarian. So for me it was like completely
different language. I didn't understand nothing.
The people were drinking and it was like heavily focused on the
sex and everybody was speaking that language.
So I didn't understand the shit and I was sitting in the air and
one guy, he approached me with their like a heart spirit
(08:47):
bilinga or something. It was awful.
So I just got like few shots andthen I was like no, I need to
leave. This is like not the place or
not the right. Right.
Wasn't the right vibe. Yeah, that is interesting.
There's so many different vibes in the lifestyle.
So in the United States, Nevada is the only state where it's
legal to have a brothel. You visited that recently?
(09:08):
What are the differences betweenAUS Brothel and?
A European brothel. I was surprised by the number of
the brothels in Nevada because Ithink that there is only like 20
brothels for the whole stay and then in Europe you have like
hundreds, maybe thousands. Whoa.
(09:29):
So I mean, it's, it's pretty common here prices that the
rules for the for the workers that the whole sex work service
is just completely different. I mean, the price is there.
I spoke with one of the sex workers and I know that they are
not allowed to to say the priceslike publicly publicly, but
(09:52):
2000? Yeah.
Exactly. And she was like, yeah, I charge
like several thousands for one hour.
Whereas here in Europe, the the workers, they usually charge
like €200, it's like $250. Oh my God, it's pretty pretty
similar. So that's $200.
(10:13):
That's like, that's what about a15 minute VIP lap dance would
cost literally $200. Yeah.
And so with no sacks involved. No.
No sacks. No.
Yeah. So everything was like super,
super expensive there if you compare this to Europe, right,
Right. And also the, because it's the,
(10:34):
the price is just so different and like not everybody can
afford it. Not too many people go there
actually. Whereas like in our club, like
during Fridays or Saturdays, there's like 506 hundred people
coming in every day. Whereas they get like like few,
I, I don't know, like 103040 million.
(10:56):
Right for a whole day. Wow, that.
'D make difference. Yeah.
I mean, I think like it's, you've said it's more common
there, right? So you're putting more people
coming in and they're they're not like ashamed about it versus
here. I feel like there's a lot of
shame behind even just going to a brothel or going even like
strip clubs. Both Ruby and I dance and you
(11:17):
know, we would we're we talk about being nervous about like
our real life colleagues coming in and seeing up there because
there is so much stigma behind sex work here.
But going back, I'm curious because you just visited the red
light district with Amsterdam. And so I know that's kind of
like the OG of brothels. You know, I think of Amsterdam,
(11:38):
right. What was your experience
recently when you went and comparatively to your brothel?
Well, I was a little bit sad when when I left the Amsterdam
because what, what the city is trying to do is that they are
trying to get rid of the of the windows.
(12:00):
And they are basically they havethis plan to build like a huge
brothel outside of the city. So they want to get rid
completely of the brothels from the from the city centre.
Wow. I spoke with many sex workers
and I spoke with people from prostitution Centre, which is
amazing. There are very lovely people and
(12:22):
they know a lot about the industry and they are all
against it because it's it's part of the history.
Yeah. Even the people that lives in
the city, they don't agree with moving the windows outside of
the cities. So that kind of left me with
like a little bit of said less, yeah, because I don't think that
(12:43):
it should be happening. It's such a big touristy area
too. People go to Amsterdam
specifically for. Right.
They count on that for tourism, I'm sure at some level, even if
people don't use the services, just the idea of going in like
seeing it right, like. A.
Yeah, yeah. I studied abroad in Amsterdam
for a semester in my undergrad degree.
And it was, it was so like bizarre for us, you know,
(13:07):
because we don't see that in theUS.
And I was 2020 years old. And we went to a live sex show,
which was the name. They have those rooms where you
like walk in. We, and we also ate a space
cake, you know, like this, you know, pot in it.
And we didn't, at that time, it wasn't legal here.
So we were like, OK, let's get high and go watch this live sex
(13:28):
show. And you walk into this, it's
like basically like you, you would put euros in and the light
would come on, right? I don't know if you've seen
this, Catherine, but yeah. And then it's like this
revolving bed, like kind of likeAustin Power style.
Like or Hugh Hefner? Yeah.
And like, people are just fucking like in the room and
(13:50):
we're like, Oh my gosh. And then the euro runs out, or
the time runs out and out goes all black.
I know that's how they hook you in.
Right. Yeah.
So we're constantly putting coins in to make sure we don't
miss anything. But even that experience, so
we're relating that back to whatCatherine is saying about it
being a lot more money here. You're talking about putting
coins in to watch people have sex live.
Yeah. That would be thousands of
(14:10):
dollars a year, probably. I mean, do you imagine?
Yeah, but I loved that experience.
Like it was great exposure for me.
Like and I that is really sad that they're looking to get rid
that. Yeah, I think it's really sad,
but I think the process already started because when I was there
for the first time, I think it was like, I don't know, 10 years
ago or something, there was around 300 windows.
(14:33):
Wow. And now there is around like
150, something like that. So they are like slowly getting
pretty with. And the final part should be
that they will actually move thewhole thing outside of the city.
Wow. So I'm sure there's a range of
people that come into a brothel,right from ages and backgrounds,
(14:57):
etcetera. So I guess my question is, is,
is it common at all for couples to come into your brothel?
And if so, what does that look like?
Are they, are they swingers? Are they just one and done type
things? What does that look like?
Or maybe they don't come in at all.
Yeah, it's sometimes they come in, but it's not very common.
I would say like few times a year.
Really. Oh my gosh.
(15:18):
It's not so common. I mean, we sometimes we, we have
them, but it's not so common. And usually I think the last
time when I saw it, this it was young couple and they came in
and they were already drinking. And then and then they decide to
(15:38):
to gets to the role with one of the ladies and it end up
terribly basically that the the women, the girl, she got very
upset. Yeah.
What's going on? Because they didn't they didn't
talk about it before. And boundary is that mine?
Right. It was something probably
different that it started to happen and they didn't, they
(16:00):
just didn't communicate it. They didn't communicate about
it, they just thought it was going.
To be just a walk in the park, yeah.
And then exactly. And then I saw the lady running
away from the room and yeah. So would you say that when a
couple the very infrequent timesa couple does come in and sounds
like, would you say that the what is the right word to use?
(16:22):
The what? What word do you use there to
describe the employees there that are providing services?
Well, I just say like workers because when I when I talk about
sex work on Instagram, Instagramdoesn't like that.
Perfect, that makes sense because there's Instagram owned
by that's AUS app. I'm I think.
OK, so I'll say another layer ofshame exactly.
(16:45):
So I'll say workers. So when when a couple comes in,
do the workers shy away from couples or is it or is there
maybe a factor of like, well, there's two people for one time
frame? Or is it more like they want to
maybe explore that because it isn't an anomaly for them to
come in? How are couples perceived among
the workers I guess is my question.
When they do come in, don't go anywhere.
We'll be right back. And also, please find us on our
(17:07):
new Instagram page at Kelly Fox Ruby, as this season we'll be
uploading behind the scenes content and other fun moments.
We're sitting here at the professor in his kitchen.
We have a fun party come up in March.
And I want you to tell us a little about him, Professor.
Yeah. So we're going to do a 2 day,
Yep, two days at one of our new hotel sites that we just started
using here. So it's going to be a 2 day
hotel takeover. The sexy seduction so the
(17:30):
premise with this one is is thatyou know with everything
nowadays are so many themes and you got to dress up for holidays
and this and that you don't get to wear what you really want to
wear this one ladies were going back to the old school you wear
what you think you. Turn.
I love that. Yeah, dudes get dressed.
Whatever you think you look bad in, wear it at.
And that's including them dresses, the lingerie pieces,
(17:52):
the heels. They don't have a certain color.
Wear your ones with your spikes,straps, all that so come out two
days. Love that fun whole hotel ours.
And this is the one that's this is the newer hotel in Apple
Valley, which one is? It hotel down in Apple.
Valley, right, where you did theWhite Party there last year,
right. That one.
Yep. OK, cool.
That one. Let me tell you too, if you are
(18:12):
into hosting rooms, those particular hotel rooms to me
lend themselves the best for a room call party because the
bedroom is separate and it has kind of like that kitchenette
deal and the living room. It's an all, they're all suites,
right. So that is the time to host a
pre party if you're going to host a pre party.
And I'll tell you what I'm goingto I I just got goosebumps.
Here we go again. Goosebumps every time.
I'm excited about this. Callie and Ruby have been we've
(18:35):
all been talking about for a while.
We're going to host our first room party together.
There. Yep, we've never done that as a
truffle yet. And here's the thing, though,
it's going to be wild. We're bringing a keg.
There's going to be topless keg stands.
There's going to be a few other surprises.
Let me tell you, you ain't seen nothing like this.
Pre party before. I haven't been to a.
(19:00):
Pre party in years I'm saying. Stop by this.
One we hope you do I. Haven't seen the naked.
Kids. And there's a whole lot more
than that. Not.
Since freshman year in. College, right, exactly.
We're bringing it back. We're bringing it back.
It's going to be a full keg, nota Little Pony keg.
There's a full keg it's going tohave, you know, Yup.
And maybe some Miller highlight or some golden classic with some
(19:21):
with some red Dixie cups, Solo cups.
Oh, this is happening. The whole thing Highlight.
I love it I. Love it.
All right. So we hope to see you guys there
and we'll get back to show here.It really depends on the on the
girl. So some of them, they really
don't like it. They don't know how to handle
(19:43):
the dynamics between between thecouple and they just don't want
to see them. And it's not a matter of prize.
Have a few few women that works with us and they are completely
fine with that. They even are fine to to make
the service for single for single girl.
But it's not that many that would actually like to do it
(20:07):
because for for some of them this service is almost like a
learned choreography so they don't need to think about it.
With the guys it's all the time the same.
By the way, the woman is different.
So sometimes they just don't like to go into it.
Yeah, I have so many questions. I know that girls are allowed to
(20:31):
reject customers, right? But when customers come, do they
pick who they want to be with? And then like, how?
What's the process look like? Like a select, like a pairing
process, right? Like the customer arrives, then
what? Yeah.
So the customer arrives and there is a bar, there is like
AVIP area. There are some lounges where he
can like hang out, have a drink.And then we have a special bar
(20:56):
with the rooms and the workers. They are either like standing in
front of the room and they are talking with the guys that are
just like walking past them or they are just chilling in the
room with the door open and the guys just, you know, look into
the room and then maybe they start a conversation.
(21:16):
So this is basically how it goes.
Like we as a management, we are never part of the deal between
between the workers and the customers.
So the girls, they need to speakto the customers and the
customers also need to speak to the girls.
Sure. OK.
They kind of pick and choose like it's like an open area
where it's like, yeah, OK, let'shave a conversation.
I'm interested. Are you interested and.
(21:37):
Exactly. Exactly.
So I'm curious too. Is it, are they all the workers
female or do you have a male or two as well to fulfill maybe
those fantasies where those raretimes the couples come in and
it's an MFM or or whatever situation.
Maybe, you know, there's some gay people coming in as well
that want that is is that a thing there or no?
(21:58):
Or they're all females? So right now 100% of them, they
are females. OK, we used to have few trans
persons. They were super cool, but they
weren't so successful with us. Sure.
So they they decide to work to in different countries.
But we are definitely open to basically anybody.
(22:21):
But we are like very heterosexual place.
So we haven't got any any male workers here in our country.
It's very separate. So if you talk about like gay
services, they are like very separate and they have their own
community. Sure.
(22:42):
Curious question, What makes oneworker more successful than
another? Oh yeah.
The attitude, yeah. So over the years, I met, like,
so many very beautiful women, like Victoria's Secret level,
but they weren't successful because they only rely on the
(23:06):
beauty. Yeah, but and they weren't able
to talk with people. They weren't able to handle some
sort of situations. They weren't able to, to set the
boundaries and still have this empathy towards the clients.
And then I met, like many women,they were in their 40s.
(23:28):
I mean, the oldest, oldest girl that works with us, she's around
60 years old and she's amazing. She is, she's really good at
business. And it's not about the look.
She doesn't look like because sex works gonna, you know, does
the stereotypical image that's that usually comes to the mind.
(23:49):
And she's just so successful because she has this really cool
attitude. She likes to speak with people.
She has empathy, she's funny, she knows languages, good
personality. Exactly.
Just just the personality. That's all that matters.
Social skills. So kind of a follow up question
of that. So is it, is it 100% of the time
(24:12):
that people when they come in the, the customers come in that
they're looking for sex as a service?
Or sometimes are they just looking for like companionship,
like hey, just like sit and talkme for two hours or there's a
new service in the States that'shappening.
It's like a cuddle service. You can like get cuddled for
like an hour for $100 or whatever it costs.
Is that a service as well that'sthat is common or that is there?
(24:34):
So I would say it's like 6060% of people, they are coming for
sex. But for the people, for the 40%
of people, they are coming and they are searching for the
companionship. Wow.
We have a lot of people and theyare coming in and they're like,
I don't do have sex. It's like, no, just just sit
(24:54):
down and talk with me because that's what I meant in my life.
I I love that, though, I love that I never would expect to be
that high one. And that just shows you 2 like
it's it's not always about sex, right?
Even we talk about that in the swinging land, right?
Like what you just said, you need more of a connection, like
emotional connection, right? I'm the same way where I'm not
ADTF right? That means down to fuck in a
first night of meeting somebody.Rarely does that happen, right?
(25:17):
I I like the connection with people.
So that just goes to show too, like in that we all need
connection different ways and there's nothing not shaming
people that want to do one nightstand or things like that too.
It's you know, time and play. But, but I'm I'm actually really
encouraged that it's that high, like 40% aren't there.
They've also made it so much more affordable, right, that you
can seek that companionship. Right.
(25:37):
Well, I love just like the positive touch too, like a lot
of people don't get that and thehormones that are released like
the oxytocin and like I mean, everyone needs that.
So I love that you provide that service for many.
People there actually there are,I would say like 70% of the
workers that we have. And they don't like to provide
(25:59):
like any emotional service. They have this.
They have this notion that the sex work is just about like
making the guy calm, Yeah. And making him to leave.
So that was when they don't liketo, when there's a guy and
they're like, I want to spend the whole night with you.
Maybe we will go for a dinner, then to the bar.
(26:19):
We will talk and I will pay you like this amount.
And she's like, yeah, but I would rather have like 20 guys
every. I will last 15 minutes.
Yeah, but I will have the same amount of money and I don't need
to think about it. Right.
That, that's interesting. But can you talk more about like
(26:40):
the workers and their relationships?
Like are most of them married orsingle?
Just curious about what kind, what types of people that you
get working there? I would say most of them, they
are either in a relationship or they are married.
Some of the husbands, they know what they do and they fully
(27:01):
support it. They some of them, they actually
unlike Rivers general. So she's the breadwinner and he
takes care of the household, raises the seeds, sure, take
care basically of everything. So this this is very typical
(27:22):
because, you know, she makes a lot of money.
So he kind of stays at home. Take care, take, take, take care
of everything. Some of them they are married
and the husband, heaven, the husband has no idea.
Wow. So they are very good at hiding
(27:43):
it and some of them they are single and they just like to
enjoy this, this work and this like part of the lifestyle
before they maybe decide to staywith somebody.
And then we have like girls thatare divorced and then we have
(28:04):
like girls that are single. I mean, as I told you about the
60 years old, she's single. She, she likes to be single for
the whole of her life. She doesn't even like want to
have a relationship. So it's it's very different and
it changes over the time. So for people searching gears
here, so for people that have ever been to a brothel or even
(28:24):
really thought much about it, I would imagine everybody thinks
that there is, you know, some safety practices in place.
So what? What kind of safety does does
your brothel provide for the ladies and for even the
customers in some cases? Maybe, I don't know.
So we have like a couple of security procedures.
(28:45):
So the first thing is that like there are cameras everywhere
except the rules. So all over the club there are
cameras in case anything happened.
Also the customers, they are notallowed to to come in when they
are super drunk or drugged, but basically like when they when
they seem aggressive, the the receptionist, they don't even
(29:08):
let them in. So this is like the first
selection. And then also we have and this
is the most important thing, thepanic buttons.
Every room has at least one panic button.
They are hidden so it looks likea regular like light switch.
And the workers, they are instructed how to press them.
(29:30):
And our our employees they are, they are instructed to be in the
room within 8 seconds from the time when the panic button is
pressed. And they are trained regularly
for this. So this is the the one of the
biggest security procedure that we have that's.
(29:53):
Awesome. Is that something that's
regulated or is that just kind of like a House policy you guys
have? This is stated by the law.
Perfect. Wow.
OK, interesting. I read somewhere also that
because this is legal, you're allowed to get support from the
police if you ever needed it. Exactly.
Yeah. I mean, if there is some
situation when we just don't want to deal with this anymore
(30:17):
or maybe because our our employees, they are instructed
to not to use any physical powerunless super needed.
So and sometimes we get get situations and these are not
extreme situations. Just to give you an example.
So recently we had a guy and theservice was over and he refused
(30:40):
to leave the room. He was sitting there naked.
Well, he thick out and he was sitting there naked and he
didn't want to leave the room. And the girl was like, yeah, but
you need to leave. You know, the service is over.
If you want to stay, you need topay me more.
And he's like, yeah, I don't want to pay you more, but I want
to stay. Oh my.
God, Oh no. And he?
And was he drunk or no? He wasn't drunk.
(31:01):
He wasn't that drunk. He was like, I think he had like
a couple of beers, but nothing extreme.
And it was like 3 AM, 4:00 AM inthe morning.
No, no, that was this guy. And he didn't want to leave.
So our our employees came in andthey were like, yeah, well, you
really need to leave. And we spoke with him and he was
like, yeah, I'm not going anywhere.
(31:21):
Yeah. So then was the time when we
needed to call the police to actually use the force because
we didn't come to harm him in any way.
And it was just a stupid situation.
So to escort him out. Exactly.
So that's that's what the policedid eventually.
It's a huge boss that we are in a legal like low frame that we
(31:43):
can call a police. Your girls are always.
Safe. It's an extra safety measure
that we wouldn't have. Here because otherwise we we
would need to hide, we wouldn't get the opportunity to call the
police so. I want to switch gears for a
second in our world in the States and being swingers and
being polyamorous for us people,our our family and our friends
(32:05):
know what we do. They know about the podcast,
they know about us and our lifestyle preferences, things
like that, which is not common here.
So we've gone through kind of the the, the ropes of the
challenges with coming out to family and things like that.
So I'm curious if you're willingto go down this road with us in
the show here. And it's OK if you're not, how
(32:26):
did the conversations go with your family with with saying
that you are a manager of a brothel?
And again, I don't know, like ifwith a stigma that may or may
not be around that in your country versus here.
But just like, how was it received?
Was it just like any other job with were there tears?
Was there questions? Just how did that kind of
conversation go? Well.
It was definitely hard at the beginning because I accepted the
(32:47):
job. I knew I want to do this.
Also my friend said this. I was 22 exactly.
Right. OK, perfect.
Thank you guys. So my friends, they, they
already knew that I'm applying for this job.
So when I got the job offer, they were like, you know, if, if
it's good for you, then just go for it.
And then I waited like 3 months to actually tell my family
(33:10):
because I don't know if you havethis in US but here you have
like 3 months of probation period.
Right. And basically, like after three
months, you are offered the contract.
So I waited those three months to to be offered the contract.
Then I signed it. And then I went to my family and
I was like, I'm going to be a manager of a brothel.
(33:33):
And they were like, what, what are you going to be?
I was like, yeah. Right.
I already decided and my father,he was like super supportive
from the beginning. And your father is like a rocket
scientist, is that right? Did I read that somewhere?
And people lazy maybe? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He's a nuclear scientist. Yeah.
So he was super understanding about all of this.
(33:55):
I talked with him about what I do, and he was like, yeah,
that's cool. I mean, if you like it, just go
for it. Completely understand.
My mother on the other way, she was like, what are you going to
do with her? It's still a longer time.
She needed to talk about it a lot with me, which was fine,
(34:20):
yeah, but it took her, I think, several years to actually accept
that. OK, and what about freaking
girls? Do they face any backlash
backlash from their friends or family for being the one
employed in a sex work industry?Yeah, they do.
They do. So that's the reason why most of
them, they don't tell anybody. OK.
(34:42):
Yeah, like very, very few peoplefrom their from their circle.
No. So they said like usually the
husband, not so much the parents.
They don't like to tell them, right?
So, yeah, there's, there's thosestigma.
Even though the sex work is legal, there is a still huge
stigma around it. So, right, I completely
understand that they don't want to tell anybody.
(35:05):
I'm very open about what I do. And you know, if the people
don't like it, it's not really my problem.
It's funny when you think about it.
That's an interesting question because I'm getting the sense
that, you know, outside of America, which I think some of
us could have guessed but maybe not to agree that sex and sex
positivity is much more than norm.
But even in that role of being asex worker at a brothel, like
(35:27):
that's still extremely stigmatized to where you really
wouldn't want to tell anybody. So like, what does that mean
here if you're a sex worker here, right?
Even if like even being a. Stripper, open community there,
it's still stigmatized and then it's like double the back.
And we talked about that here with you and Ruby being
strippers. That is something even that you.
We don't share. With you don't share with there
(35:47):
any people. I mean, we have in the podcast
now recently, but people, you know, in a workplace.
Parents. Not my parents.
Yeah, things like that because that that would be maybe the
equivalent of, you know, in in that country.
Well, I think like when you lookinto the history of monogamy and
how it became the norm, especially women, there's just
so much shame behind even just showing your body.
(36:12):
Yeah. And then losing your body for
money. There is this like, you know,
double standard, because when you are a guy and you're gigolo,
you're ace, but if you're a girland you do the same work, you're
slut, you're whore. Yep, exactly.
So you just think about like, I mean the patriarchy again.
(36:33):
I'm gonna go back to this because you said I read
somewhere your highest paid, you're the girl that makes the
most. She made like 50,000 in a month.
There's going to be this narrative of women should not be
selling their bodies for money because they don't want us to
make more money than men. Exactly.
You know, the money it gives you, it gives you power, power.
(36:56):
You're independent and actually doesn't really like this.
And when I speak with the girls,you know, they are, like, very
most of them. They really enjoy what they do.
You know, they are happy when the client is happy.
But then they are like, yeah, but I can't tell anybody about
this. What?
I like to say the hardest thing about this lifestyle is you
(37:17):
can't share anybody with anybodycan't tell them when I go into
work, I have a regular job righttoo.
I I own a business, but also have a regular job.
When I go into my regular job, every Monday morning when I go
in, the questions are the same from the people, right?
Like how was your weekend? What did you do?
You know, I can't tell them that, Oh, we, we went on a road
trip and we recorded a podcast episode and we stopped at a
(37:38):
strip club for a night and, or Ally and Ruby, you know, did
amazing there. Or yeah, or we can't talk about
swinging or all these fun thingsthat that are really just
positive connection points. We just they're muted in our
life because of the sexual stigma.
Well, and again, going back to the shame factor, why is it
acceptable for a man to visit aninstitution like that but not
(38:00):
for a woman to work there? Kind of a a major double
standard. Yeah, I also got like a little
bit of a backlash because most of the people they kind of
expect die to be at my place. But when there is, when there is
A and she's being a manager, I was told like by many people
that I'm betraying the women because I should be the one who
(38:26):
who wouldn't support this. So yeah.
Interesting. Yeah.
And see, I do that kind of as the opposite.
Those roles, whether stripping or working at brothels, like
it's empowerment to like, yeah, you're, it's, it's confidence to
me to to see that. And being a female manager, I
imagine you understand the needsof your girls probably better
(38:47):
than a male manager. Was exactly well, and I'm going
to go like I want to go down like your background too, like
I'm so interested in. So I majored in psychology as
well, and then I got a masters in counseling.
I see that you're doing organizational psychology, which
will even better help you understand your girls needs and
(39:07):
just how to run a business. And so can you tell us a little
bit more about, yeah, why psychology and like how that
helps you with your profession? So the the psychology choice
was, so I went to this high school.
I don't know if you have this inthe US, but here in Europe you
have this high school for like, smart kids.
(39:28):
Yeah, you need to pass some special exams to, to be able to
study there. So all of my classmates, they
wanted to be like a doctor's lawyer, right, Those kind of
professions. And then I was like, I don't
know what I want to do. Don't we already have a lot of
those? Right, I was.
I just knew that I'm really goodaround people.
(39:48):
I enjoy talking with people. I enjoy like, thinking why
people behave in the way they behave.
What's going on in your hands? So I was like, yeah, well, maybe
psychology. There was very short moment when
I wanted to to join a circus, like, no, you're not doing this.
(40:12):
So then I need to go to university.
So I graduated from psychology but I get the bachelor's degree
from psychology and. And then I kind of felt it was
the time when I was already working as a manager and at the
(40:32):
time I felt like I don't want todo psychology anymore because I
got like a little bit angry on psychology that it has this.
It's so strict sometimes. Exactly.
And there are like norms. What is normal?
What is? It's very black and white
sometimes. Yeah, yeah.
(40:53):
Exactly. And I didn't want to continue
with this. So I took like a gap year and I
wanted to figure it out, like what I want to do.
Like I said, I definitely wantedto study more because this is
something I enjoy. And then I went to study
sociology for the masters and inmy first year of like after the
first year and I decide to go for organizational psychology as
(41:17):
well. So there was this one year when
I studied 2 universities at the same time and I had the full
time job. So that was crazy.
So but I finished the whole thing.
And then I decide to continue with the PhD because I still
wanted to study and I really like the researcher role.
(41:37):
Yeah. So I wanted to just continue
with this and I like my topics so.
Your master's is in organizational psychology as
well. And sociology, Yeah.
And sociology. OK.
Wow, that's awesome. And you're still currently in
your PhD program as well. Or you're done with that.
Yeah, yeah. No, enough of that's already
(41:59):
done. No.
How much longer do you have? Just curious.
I think like eternity. Eternity.
It should be done like normal normally in four years, but
realistically I can't handle it because I, you know, with the
socials and I'm trying to reallythink also about myself.
(42:20):
So I like to have some time justfor me.
Oh, absolutely. But I don't want to push it.
I don't push it like the time when I was studying to masters,
that was really extreme and I don't want to do this anymore.
Yeah. So I like that.
You can take it, do it on your own pace then.
Super healthy to take time for yourself.
Yeah, I love that. This question is going to seem
out of place. I had thought of it earlier but
(42:42):
then our conversation just kept flowing so I never got to ask
it. But I'm still really curious.
So backtracking our conversationnow.
Why would a man get rejected as a potential customer?
Don't go anywhere, We'll be right back.
And also, please find us on our new Instagram page at Cali Fox
Ruby, as this season we'll be uploading behind the scenes
(43:04):
content and other fun moments. Hey Sexies, Cali and Ruby here.
We wanted to take a moment to let you know about a site we're
really excited about and want toshare with you.
SDC Seek Discover Connect is a site for swingers and other non
traditional relationships where you can find people just like
(43:24):
us. With over 3 million members in
over 100 countries, you're certain to find your next sexy
adventure worldwide. On SDC, you can learn more about
the lifestyle through educational articles, podcasts,
and blogs. If you really want to get down
and dirty, you can watch live stream videos or share your own
exhibitions. A favorite element of mine is
(43:47):
the travel feature. When traveling, you can change
your location on your profile, which allows you to connect with
local members and see lifestyle events and clubs in that area.
I can tell you with certainty that some of my favorite nights
have been with members we've metthrough SDC.
Sign up today using our special code 37887 to Get full access
(44:09):
for three days completely free, and follow us at Cali Fox Ruby.
That's CALIFOXRUBY. When you sign up with our promo
code 37887, we'll be able to seeyour profile and connect with
you right away. See you out there.
(44:32):
So either he's being disrespectful, he's thinking
that he can he can have any typeof the service and sometimes
they can be very pushy. And now they are trying to get
like unprotected services and they are trying to to see if the
(44:53):
workers, they can cross their boundaries.
Yeah. So most of like they are like
very skilled. So sometimes they can be like
very pushy. Sometimes they are like drunk
and they are like drunk so much that it is like there is no
point of of trying evil. How often does that happen to
where somebody comes in like percentage wise or like out of
(45:14):
100 or whatever where somebody gets rejected right where
they're like, no, you don't do can't be.
I mean, I don't, I don't have any statistics for this sure,
but it it happens, Yeah, and but.
Every night, maybe. I would say yes, different type
of the services they provide andtheir friend prices for it.
(45:36):
So when there is a customer and his budget is like €200, some of
the workers will not accept him because they their price range
is just different. Sure, it's higher, yeah.
I read a funny story you had posted recently where a customer
had come in and been rejected because his penis was too big.
(46:02):
Does that? Hasn't been a lot.
I guess it was just too big. It was actually in the middle of
the service. So she she gave him a blowjob
and at the time she already saw like he's he's more than
average. And then the blowjob happened
and then she was like, yeah, butthe sex is not happening because
(46:25):
she was too big. This was actually a complaint.
So we teared to go there and solve it.
That's so funny. That's kind of an opposite here,
the stereotypical like a woman wants a really big penis and
then there maybe it's like if you're having sex many times a
night, that might be a disadvantage because then you're
going to become sore or be able to have less sex.
So yeah, that may be the one place or a big penis is a
(46:46):
disadvantage. Right.
So I have a question. You identify as a swinger.
Do you also identify as like polyamorous?
Like do you date multiple peopleat a time?
Oh good. Question so, so far I actually
don't date. I like to be alone.
So I actually like to focus on my life.
(47:07):
But I actually I was in polyamorous relationship.
I tried it because you know, I'mpretty open yeah to experiences.
So I wanted to try. Then the job didn't work out for
me. I guess I'm like really
monogamist because I'm very possessive.
I wanted to try it, you know, And it wasn't like horrible, but
(47:27):
it just didn't fit me. So, yeah, and maybe that
particular dynamic, like a purple and our dynamic just fits
so perfectly. me and I have different needs and so Ox
doesn't feel like overwhelmed because our needs are different.
You're not like doing the same needs.
Right. Just for example, we actually
had an episode on love languagesin the podcast here and
something as simple as that. Languages for Cali is she's
(47:50):
heavier on the affirmation side of things.
Ruby is not. Ruby is more heavy on the access
service. So I feel like if they're both
affirmation anytime, if we were together, it'd be really tough
for me to give them both verbal affirmations at the same.
Time. So just give me a coffee and
tell her she's beautiful. Exactly.
Yeah, exactly. Well, and you guys, you live
together and I don't and so likewe text a lot, but like you
(48:11):
don't really like texting, but you also live together so you
don't. Need you get the proximity time,
which is also something that Ruby likes there's proximity
time right so so yeah, we we need questions about our
throuple a lot just like how does it work the dynamics of
things like that and I think like.
Is what be jealous. Yeah, right.
And I think it just, I think it works or doesn't just like
anybody else you're with and we didn't.
Kind of depends on the person that you're with.
(48:32):
And yeah, so maybe the polyamorous relationships you
were in might not have been the best.
Dynamic. I just really appreciate it when
somebody can like really do this.
I don't think it's for me, but maybe I'll be open to it again.
I like that you even explored itthough, right, Just for the sake
of exploring it to sea, because a lot of people won't even think
to explore because they're too anxious or nervous to do it,
(48:54):
like they're gonna lose themselves in it or be
stigmatized forward or things like that.
So I think it's really awesome they even tried it and.
Then one more question for you if you are comfortable sharing.
So I've we read you, you had this interview with for People
magazine. You yourself have never been a
sex worker. And can you kind of describe why
(49:16):
or why not? Why not?
Because I, I think like, especially when you're seeing
how much these girls are making,like, is that tempting?
I think I'm just curious. Well, actually I think this is
just like my theory. Yeah, but if I wouldn't be hired
as a manager, I might start to be as a sex, I might start to
(49:40):
work as a sex worker because as I said, I'm like very sexually
open. I like to try new things.
But since I started as a manager, I kind of can't, can't
go into the path anymore becauseI'm very, very known here in the
country and also like in different countries.
So I can't really imagines to bethere.
(50:03):
And the managers will be like, what do you want here?
You know? Sure.
So yeah. But financially it definitely
makes sense to be A to be a worker there, to be a manager.
OK, sure. Yeah, the trajectory that you
got on and then kept going. Well, we're coming up to close
to an hour here. We try to keep these episodes to
(50:23):
an hour. So I do have one last question,
but before we do that, definitely want to make sure
people know how to get a hold ofyou and to follow you on your
socials and things. Can you we'll, we'll drop some
links in the podcast as well, but you have an only fans that
people can subscribe to and get real, I guess behind the scenes
stories, if you want to call it that.
That's wording it that way. OK, you're on Instagram.
(50:44):
You also have TikTok. What's the best way for people
to find you that you prefer? Yeah, Instagram.
Instagram, OK. And how do I find you on
Instagram? So it's Katheria under score the
under score Nora. Catherine under score DE under
score NOIRE. Yep.
(51:05):
Right. Exactly.
Yeah. We will put that in the show
notes as well, but for those listening, definitely follow her
on Instagram. Before we wrap things up, is
there any other misconceptions you wanted to talk about or
anything else you had to share some light on and?
Then I'll have one last question.
I guess like the common misconception about sex workers
(51:27):
is that they are, you know, Alcoholics doing drugs, very
irresponsible. Sure.
That's actually the opposite. You know, these women are the
most hard working people that I've ever met.
They have amazing communication skills.
And like a lot of the people, they feel that that sex work is
(51:50):
last resort. But most of them, they have
university degrees. They speak.
I mean, I know one of my really good friends from the industry,
she speaks 6 languages. Wow.
So she can be anywhere else but right, It's a better rational
choice for her to be a sex worker and to earn shit ton of
money. So you're saying like the
(52:11):
misconception is this is they'renot choosing this job, they
can't do anything else because they have no skills, but it's
actually the opposite. Right, they're they're doing it
because they have lots of skillsand they want right it's just a
confident thing to do and. A great way to save up money.
Find a job like that anywhere else.
Probably retire within a couple a couple years.
Or start up a business with thatmoney in a few years or
whatever, Yeah. This is what they do like most
(52:33):
of them, they they retire from the industry and they just start
to invest in some business or they just buy some flats.
Wow. It's awesome.
Or travel the rest of their lives.
Exactly. Here's my last question, right.
And this is open-ended for whatever you want to say.
And I'm sure you get asked this question in different ways, but
what is the craziest story you would like to share with us
(52:56):
that's happened at the Rothwell that you're allowed to share?
Woo Hoo, there's so many fair a few I.
Mean the US, right? Things can be crazy.
But my my favorite is the guy that really likes to do better
cosplay. So he came in this huge polar
(53:18):
bear costume and he wanted to dolike a schema role play.
And it was very cute. You know, he was very prepared
for it. And yeah, super keen about it.
So this is this is what I like to do.
This is what I like about my job, you know, to see the sexual
fantasies about people and some people, they are like very
(53:38):
creative and I really appreciatethat.
So, so the guy comes in. I just want to paint the picture
here in my head. So the guy comes in with a polar
bear costume. He comes in the door already
wearing it. Is that right?
He was already wearing it and wehave this policy that when you
are entering the club, we need to see your head because the
camera. So in case like something's.
Right in the face. So he needed to, actually.
(54:00):
Remove it from the. Exactly.
He needed to remove the the hat so we can see him and you're
like, what is happening here? Why you are wearing a ball?
Butter Costino feels like, yeah,it's my fantasy, I really want
to do this. So then we just let him in and
then he went to enjoy his night.Here's how many people turned
him down. Like I don't know if I can work
(54:21):
with this. Or maybe they gravitate towards
it. The end of that fantasy, then,
Was there another costume that the worker had to wear, or just
all in him to wear the costume? He heard this bag with another
costume for the I think it was like Eskimo costume.
Oh, this is what they play, Eskimo.
Oh yeah, Eskimo. OK, so he's the polar bear
(54:42):
wanting to have sex with the Eskimo God.
That's the fantasy. That's what I was trying to.
That's what I was trying to think through is like, what's
the what's the rest of the fantasy in there?
Right. I'm still confused how these
costumes work. Right.
How do? You flap like there's pride is a
flap. In the last that lifts up.
I don't know. Yeah, I bet just.
(55:03):
And again, with your background in psychology, like just bizarre
behavior, like witness. I love it.
I love it. I know.
Yeah. Yeah.
You're probably are very entertaining.
It's live reality TV, yes. Well, and then now somebody.
Can say they had sex with a polar bear, yeah.
I know, right? Yeah.
There's two sides to this. Story, right?
(55:24):
Yeah, the girl had a great experience.
And for the record too, like notshame that no, we're giggling
about in things only because it's like it's new like story to
hear and. Weird.
Weird is great, Yeah. It doesn't mean that we're gonna
put a polar bear costume on ourselves, but we like hearing
about it. We like people and people being
authentic. So that's what's fun to hear
about it, I think. OK, well, we're going to wrap
(55:44):
the show there, Catherine, if you'd be.
So kind of stay on for a second here to Speaking Top Shop for a
second. And then to the rest of Sex
Positive Nation, thank you so much for joining us for the
first episode of Season 3. We're very excited.
Hopefully you get a hold of of Catherine if you have some
questions or if you're maybe visiting Western Europe and
(56:07):
maybe it'll happen upon her brothel.
We're not giving a location intentionally just for safety
reasons and things like that andother things we adhere to
regarding policies and things. So, but reach out to her and you
know, hopefully you can find herbrothel if you're there.
Thanks, Catherine. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you for having me,
absolutely thank you for tuning in to the Down and Dirty.
(56:28):
We hope we sparked some curiosity for you today.
If you've enjoyed our content, please like follow our podcast
and share it with your sexy friends.
If today's topic resonated with you, leave us a message at
calliefoxruby@gmail.com. That's CALIFOXRUBY.
(56:49):
We'd also like to take a moment to acknowledge and thank our
gracious sponsors, Couples nextdoor.com.
If you're not a member yet, signup right away so we can see you
at the next event.
Before we begin the first episode of Season 3, I wanted to
take a second to acknowledge that we had some extremely
difficult audio quality issues, as our guest was on the other
side of the world while recording, and we actually had
almost 15 hours of editing on this episode, including bringing
in a professional to scrub the data and remove the echoes.
That said, please excuse any short audio anomalies during
(00:23):
this episode. Welcome to the Down and Dirty
podcast. This is your home for tuning
into topics such as sex positivity, swinging, polyamory,
E&M, and everything in between. We are your throuple swinger
host Callie Ruby and me Fox. This show contains explicit
(00:46):
content and is for 18 plus only.With that said, enjoy the show.
Welcome back Sex Positive Nation.
We're so excited to be here for Season 3.
I already just got double goosebumps.
You know how I do that right offthe bat because I'm so excited
for our guests today. So excited to start Season 3.
I'm your host. Fox and the other hosts of the
(01:08):
show are here as well. I'm Callie and Ruby.
Thank you so much for joining us.
We are so thrilled to introduce our guest for today's show,
Catherine Day Noir. She is a brothel manager for one
of the biggest brothels in Europe and one of the only
female brothel managers in the world.
She has over a half a million followers on her socials and is
(01:30):
a leader in the sex positive community.
With a master's in organizational psychology and
sociology, She provides a uniqueperspective on the sex industry
and normalizes the human need for sex.
She emphasizes the importance ofcreating a safe environment and
is able to do so with the legality of sex work in her
country. Welcome, Catherine.
(01:51):
Thank you so much for joining ustoday.
Good. Well, first of all, thank you
for having me. It's a pleasure.
So I'm 31 years old. I live in Europe and for the
past 8 1/2 years I've been a manager of one of the biggest
brothels here. I also study PHDI, study
(02:15):
psychology and my topics are management of legal sex work and
sex workers experience with the work itself.
And as you said, I like to talk about the sex sex industry and
the things behind the scenes. So this is basically what I do.
(02:35):
Yes, you give. People a safe place to explore
their desires and fantasies. And we know a lot of our
listeners are swinger based. And so, Catherine, you are also
a swinger, is that correct? Yeah.
Can you tell us A. Little bit about that, what that
looks like for you in your worldand just how long you've been in
that lifestyle. So I basically started to go to
(02:59):
swingers when I was 18 years old, which is I think the legal
age here, here in my country. It was like a huge coincidence.
One of my friends, he wanted to go there and I was like, yeah,
let's just try it because I was always very, very sexually open.
You know, I like to try different things.
And when he came to me and he was like, yeah, but I need like
(03:21):
a girl with me because I don't know if you have this in in the
US, but here in Europe, in most of the clubs, when you are a
single guy, you can enter. So you always need to go in a
pair. He kind of came to me and he was
like, yeah, well, do you want tojoin me?
I was like, yeah, I want to, youknow, let's just try it.
(03:44):
The first experience was like a little bit weird because we got
drunk on tequila. So we got like a little bit
drunk. And then we went there and we
were basically the youngest one there.
So that was like a little bit awkward.
But then I kind of decided to give it one more chance and I
went to the different club, I went by myself and it was great.
(04:06):
So I love the experience and then I kind of decided to
explore it a little bit more because I was single.
So I kind of decide to try different clubs all over the
Europe. Is that kind of how is that kind
of what the swinger lifestyle inEurope looks like?
Is it very club based? Are there a lot of private
parties, are there events, things like that?
(04:27):
I'm just curious how it works. Some of the differences between
there and here, for example, here, a lot of the bigger things
there's there's websites, some of them specifically US based,
some of them around the world based.
But they might host like a hoteltakeover, for example, right,
where the entire swinger community in the area takes over
a hotel and maybe there's 800 people there for a whole weekend
or there could be a private house parties, right.
(04:48):
But it's kind of more low key here in the States where it's
not really something you talk about.
It's not really something you talk about at work or it's not
really something that you tell your friends about.
It's really it's. No, it's.
Very discreet. It's very discreet here though
Style here are very I think there is still a lot of stigma
(05:08):
behind open relationships here. And so that's kind of part of
our goal through this podcast isto talk about, you know, sex,
the sex positive community, talkabout non traditional
relationships, ethical non monogamy and all of that.
So yeah, we're curious what it looks like over there in Europe.
I feel like we, we Europeans, weare definitely much more open
(05:29):
because when I was visiting lastyear, Nevada and I spoke with
some Americans then they're like, oh, you are from Europe.
I heard that you are like sexually very crazy.
And I'm like, what do you mean? Like, what do you mean?
And they're like, yeah, well, weheard that there are like
topless beaches that you can be like naked there.
(05:52):
I was like, yeah, that's like normal.
That's pretty normal here. So, yeah, I mean, here in Europe
we are definitely more open whenit comes to sexuality.
So, and as, as you said, I mean,I can't imagine hiding the fact
that I used to go to swinger spot.
I I don't go there as much as I would like to right now because
(06:13):
I'm focusing on the studies and work and I just really don't
want to. I need to be in that special
mood. So here in Europe, it's like you
can either go to the clubs, especially like when you go to
Berlin. These parties are very crazy and
(06:34):
I love that. Then I used to go to to London.
Actually, there is this brand called Killing Kittens.
These are my favorite because it's like an it's like a regular
evening. You just go there with the
dresses all like sexual injury. Sometimes you need to wear a
mask and it's like in one big mansion.
(06:56):
They have like different types of the parties.
Yeah, but the the ones that I used to go to was in this huge
mansion and the guys, they are wearing like a black tuxedo.
There is a yeah, there's a dresscode.
And these are the types of the parties that that are my
(07:17):
favorites because it's also likea social event in my country.
It's mostly about the sex, whichis completely fine, but I like
to have this contact with the with the people.
You know you like an underwater.Action.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like, it's like networking
for me sometimes, you know? Sure.
Are we sex allowed at these parties as well?
(07:39):
Yeah, of course. I mean, it's like it's
definitely a part of it, but there is also this, this part
when he can just hang out with the people, talk.
And then I, I remember like few,few years ago, I was in, in
Budapest and I was there alone and I was like, yeah, well,
(08:02):
maybe I will go. I, I had like A2 glasses of wine
and I was like, yeah, today is the day for me to go to explore
like Budapest swingers parties. That was absolutely crazy.
There was like a one small villa, so I wandered there and
everybody was drinking, drinkinglike really heavily.
There was a DJ playing Hungarianlong.
(08:27):
I don't speak Hungarian. So for me it was like completely
different language. I didn't understand nothing.
The people were drinking and it was like heavily focused on the
sex and everybody was speaking that language.
So I didn't understand the shit and I was sitting in the air and
one guy, he approached me with their like a heart spirit
(08:47):
bilinga or something. It was awful.
So I just got like few shots andthen I was like no, I need to
leave. This is like not the place or
not the right. Right.
Wasn't the right vibe. Yeah, that is interesting.
There's so many different vibes in the lifestyle.
So in the United States, Nevada is the only state where it's
legal to have a brothel. You visited that recently?
(09:08):
What are the differences betweenAUS Brothel and?
A European brothel. I was surprised by the number of
the brothels in Nevada because Ithink that there is only like 20
brothels for the whole stay and then in Europe you have like
hundreds, maybe thousands. Whoa.
(09:29):
So I mean, it's, it's pretty common here prices that the
rules for the for the workers that the whole sex work service
is just completely different. I mean, the price is there.
I spoke with one of the sex workers and I know that they are
not allowed to to say the priceslike publicly publicly, but
(09:52):
2000? Yeah.
Exactly. And she was like, yeah, I charge
like several thousands for one hour.
Whereas here in Europe, the the workers, they usually charge
like €200, it's like $250. Oh my God, it's pretty pretty
similar. So that's $200.
(10:13):
That's like, that's what about a15 minute VIP lap dance would
cost literally $200. Yeah.
And so with no sacks involved. No.
No sacks. No.
Yeah. So everything was like super,
super expensive there if you compare this to Europe, right,
Right. And also the, because it's the,
(10:34):
the price is just so different and like not everybody can
afford it. Not too many people go there
actually. Whereas like in our club, like
during Fridays or Saturdays, there's like 506 hundred people
coming in every day. Whereas they get like like few,
I, I don't know, like 103040 million.
(10:56):
Right for a whole day. Wow, that.
'D make difference. Yeah.
I mean, I think like it's, you've said it's more common
there, right? So you're putting more people
coming in and they're they're not like ashamed about it versus
here. I feel like there's a lot of
shame behind even just going to a brothel or going even like
strip clubs. Both Ruby and I dance and you
(11:17):
know, we would we're we talk about being nervous about like
our real life colleagues coming in and seeing up there because
there is so much stigma behind sex work here.
But going back, I'm curious because you just visited the red
light district with Amsterdam. And so I know that's kind of
like the OG of brothels. You know, I think of Amsterdam,
(11:38):
right. What was your experience
recently when you went and comparatively to your brothel?
Well, I was a little bit sad when when I left the Amsterdam
because what, what the city is trying to do is that they are
trying to get rid of the of the windows.
(12:00):
And they are basically they havethis plan to build like a huge
brothel outside of the city. So they want to get rid
completely of the brothels from the from the city centre.
Wow. I spoke with many sex workers
and I spoke with people from prostitution Centre, which is
amazing. There are very lovely people and
(12:22):
they know a lot about the industry and they are all
against it because it's it's part of the history.
Yeah. Even the people that lives in
the city, they don't agree with moving the windows outside of
the cities. So that kind of left me with
like a little bit of said less, yeah, because I don't think that
(12:43):
it should be happening. It's such a big touristy area
too. People go to Amsterdam
specifically for. Right.
They count on that for tourism, I'm sure at some level, even if
people don't use the services, just the idea of going in like
seeing it right, like. A.
Yeah, yeah. I studied abroad in Amsterdam
for a semester in my undergrad degree.
And it was, it was so like bizarre for us, you know,
(13:07):
because we don't see that in theUS.
And I was 2020 years old. And we went to a live sex show,
which was the name. They have those rooms where you
like walk in. We, and we also ate a space
cake, you know, like this, you know, pot in it.
And we didn't, at that time, it wasn't legal here.
So we were like, OK, let's get high and go watch this live sex
(13:28):
show. And you walk into this, it's
like basically like you, you would put euros in and the light
would come on, right? I don't know if you've seen
this, Catherine, but yeah. And then it's like this
revolving bed, like kind of likeAustin Power style.
Like or Hugh Hefner? Yeah.
And like, people are just fucking like in the room and
(13:50):
we're like, Oh my gosh. And then the euro runs out, or
the time runs out and out goes all black.
I know that's how they hook you in.
Right. Yeah.
So we're constantly putting coins in to make sure we don't
miss anything. But even that experience, so
we're relating that back to whatCatherine is saying about it
being a lot more money here. You're talking about putting
coins in to watch people have sex live.
Yeah. That would be thousands of
(14:10):
dollars a year, probably. I mean, do you imagine?
Yeah, but I loved that experience.
Like it was great exposure for me.
Like and I that is really sad that they're looking to get rid
that. Yeah, I think it's really sad,
but I think the process already started because when I was there
for the first time, I think it was like, I don't know, 10 years
ago or something, there was around 300 windows.
(14:33):
Wow. And now there is around like
150, something like that. So they are like slowly getting
pretty with. And the final part should be
that they will actually move thewhole thing outside of the city.
Wow. So I'm sure there's a range of
people that come into a brothel,right from ages and backgrounds,
(14:57):
etcetera. So I guess my question is, is,
is it common at all for couples to come into your brothel?
And if so, what does that look like?
Are they, are they swingers? Are they just one and done type
things? What does that look like?
Or maybe they don't come in at all.
Yeah, it's sometimes they come in, but it's not very common.
I would say like few times a year.
Really. Oh my gosh.
(15:18):
It's not so common. I mean, we sometimes we, we have
them, but it's not so common. And usually I think the last
time when I saw it, this it was young couple and they came in
and they were already drinking. And then and then they decide to
(15:38):
to gets to the role with one of the ladies and it end up
terribly basically that the the women, the girl, she got very
upset. Yeah.
What's going on? Because they didn't they didn't
talk about it before. And boundary is that mine?
Right. It was something probably
different that it started to happen and they didn't, they
(16:00):
just didn't communicate it. They didn't communicate about
it, they just thought it was going.
To be just a walk in the park, yeah.
And then exactly. And then I saw the lady running
away from the room and yeah. So would you say that when a
couple the very infrequent timesa couple does come in and sounds
like, would you say that the what is the right word to use?
(16:22):
The what? What word do you use there to
describe the employees there that are providing services?
Well, I just say like workers because when I when I talk about
sex work on Instagram, Instagramdoesn't like that.
Perfect, that makes sense because there's Instagram owned
by that's AUS app. I'm I think.
OK, so I'll say another layer ofshame exactly.
(16:45):
So I'll say workers. So when when a couple comes in,
do the workers shy away from couples or is it or is there
maybe a factor of like, well, there's two people for one time
frame? Or is it more like they want to
maybe explore that because it isn't an anomaly for them to
come in? How are couples perceived among
the workers I guess is my question.
When they do come in, don't go anywhere.
We'll be right back. And also, please find us on our
(17:07):
new Instagram page at Kelly Fox Ruby, as this season we'll be
uploading behind the scenes content and other fun moments.
We're sitting here at the professor in his kitchen.
We have a fun party come up in March.
And I want you to tell us a little about him, Professor.
Yeah. So we're going to do a 2 day,
Yep, two days at one of our new hotel sites that we just started
using here. So it's going to be a 2 day
hotel takeover. The sexy seduction so the
(17:30):
premise with this one is is thatyou know with everything
nowadays are so many themes and you got to dress up for holidays
and this and that you don't get to wear what you really want to
wear this one ladies were going back to the old school you wear
what you think you. Turn.
I love that. Yeah, dudes get dressed.
Whatever you think you look bad in, wear it at.
And that's including them dresses, the lingerie pieces,
(17:52):
the heels. They don't have a certain color.
Wear your ones with your spikes,straps, all that so come out two
days. Love that fun whole hotel ours.
And this is the one that's this is the newer hotel in Apple
Valley, which one is? It hotel down in Apple.
Valley, right, where you did theWhite Party there last year,
right. That one.
Yep. OK, cool.
That one. Let me tell you too, if you are
(18:12):
into hosting rooms, those particular hotel rooms to me
lend themselves the best for a room call party because the
bedroom is separate and it has kind of like that kitchenette
deal and the living room. It's an all, they're all suites,
right. So that is the time to host a
pre party if you're going to host a pre party.
And I'll tell you what I'm goingto I I just got goosebumps.
Here we go again. Goosebumps every time.
I'm excited about this. Callie and Ruby have been we've
(18:35):
all been talking about for a while.
We're going to host our first room party together.
There. Yep, we've never done that as a
truffle yet. And here's the thing, though,
it's going to be wild. We're bringing a keg.
There's going to be topless keg stands.
There's going to be a few other surprises.
Let me tell you, you ain't seen nothing like this.
Pre party before. I haven't been to a.
(19:00):
Pre party in years I'm saying. Stop by this.
One we hope you do I. Haven't seen the naked.
Kids. And there's a whole lot more
than that. Not.
Since freshman year in. College, right, exactly.
We're bringing it back. We're bringing it back.
It's going to be a full keg, nota Little Pony keg.
There's a full keg it's going tohave, you know, Yup.
And maybe some Miller highlight or some golden classic with some
(19:21):
with some red Dixie cups, Solo cups.
Oh, this is happening. The whole thing Highlight.
I love it I. Love it.
All right. So we hope to see you guys there
and we'll get back to show here.It really depends on the on the
girl. So some of them, they really
don't like it. They don't know how to handle
(19:43):
the dynamics between between thecouple and they just don't want
to see them. And it's not a matter of prize.
Have a few few women that works with us and they are completely
fine with that. They even are fine to to make
the service for single for single girl.
But it's not that many that would actually like to do it
(20:07):
because for for some of them this service is almost like a
learned choreography so they don't need to think about it.
With the guys it's all the time the same.
By the way, the woman is different.
So sometimes they just don't like to go into it.
Yeah, I have so many questions. I know that girls are allowed to
(20:31):
reject customers, right? But when customers come, do they
pick who they want to be with? And then like, how?
What's the process look like? Like a select, like a pairing
process, right? Like the customer arrives, then
what? Yeah.
So the customer arrives and there is a bar, there is like
AVIP area. There are some lounges where he
can like hang out, have a drink.And then we have a special bar
(20:56):
with the rooms and the workers. They are either like standing in
front of the room and they are talking with the guys that are
just like walking past them or they are just chilling in the
room with the door open and the guys just, you know, look into
the room and then maybe they start a conversation.
(21:16):
So this is basically how it goes.
Like we as a management, we are never part of the deal between
between the workers and the customers.
So the girls, they need to speakto the customers and the
customers also need to speak to the girls.
Sure. OK.
They kind of pick and choose like it's like an open area
where it's like, yeah, OK, let'shave a conversation.
I'm interested. Are you interested and.
(21:37):
Exactly. Exactly.
So I'm curious too. Is it, are they all the workers
female or do you have a male or two as well to fulfill maybe
those fantasies where those raretimes the couples come in and
it's an MFM or or whatever situation.
Maybe, you know, there's some gay people coming in as well
that want that is is that a thing there or no?
(21:58):
Or they're all females? So right now 100% of them, they
are females. OK, we used to have few trans
persons. They were super cool, but they
weren't so successful with us. Sure.
So they they decide to work to in different countries.
But we are definitely open to basically anybody.
(22:21):
But we are like very heterosexual place.
So we haven't got any any male workers here in our country.
It's very separate. So if you talk about like gay
services, they are like very separate and they have their own
community. Sure.
(22:42):
Curious question, What makes oneworker more successful than
another? Oh yeah.
The attitude, yeah. So over the years, I met, like,
so many very beautiful women, like Victoria's Secret level,
but they weren't successful because they only rely on the
(23:06):
beauty. Yeah, but and they weren't able
to talk with people. They weren't able to handle some
sort of situations. They weren't able to, to set the
boundaries and still have this empathy towards the clients.
And then I met, like many women,they were in their 40s.
(23:28):
I mean, the oldest, oldest girl that works with us, she's around
60 years old and she's amazing. She is, she's really good at
business. And it's not about the look.
She doesn't look like because sex works gonna, you know, does
the stereotypical image that's that usually comes to the mind.
(23:49):
And she's just so successful because she has this really cool
attitude. She likes to speak with people.
She has empathy, she's funny, she knows languages, good
personality. Exactly.
Just just the personality. That's all that matters.
Social skills. So kind of a follow up question
of that. So is it, is it 100% of the time
(24:12):
that people when they come in the, the customers come in that
they're looking for sex as a service?
Or sometimes are they just looking for like companionship,
like hey, just like sit and talkme for two hours or there's a
new service in the States that'shappening.
It's like a cuddle service. You can like get cuddled for
like an hour for $100 or whatever it costs.
Is that a service as well that'sthat is common or that is there?
(24:34):
So I would say it's like 6060% of people, they are coming for
sex. But for the people, for the 40%
of people, they are coming and they are searching for the
companionship. Wow.
We have a lot of people and theyare coming in and they're like,
I don't do have sex. It's like, no, just just sit
(24:54):
down and talk with me because that's what I meant in my life.
I I love that, though, I love that I never would expect to be
that high one. And that just shows you 2 like
it's it's not always about sex, right?
Even we talk about that in the swinging land, right?
Like what you just said, you need more of a connection, like
emotional connection, right? I'm the same way where I'm not
ADTF right? That means down to fuck in a
first night of meeting somebody.Rarely does that happen, right?
(25:17):
I I like the connection with people.
So that just goes to show too, like in that we all need
connection different ways and there's nothing not shaming
people that want to do one nightstand or things like that too.
It's you know, time and play. But, but I'm I'm actually really
encouraged that it's that high, like 40% aren't there.
They've also made it so much more affordable, right, that you
can seek that companionship. Right.
(25:37):
Well, I love just like the positive touch too, like a lot
of people don't get that and thehormones that are released like
the oxytocin and like I mean, everyone needs that.
So I love that you provide that service for many.
People there actually there are,I would say like 70% of the
workers that we have. And they don't like to provide
(25:59):
like any emotional service. They have this.
They have this notion that the sex work is just about like
making the guy calm, Yeah. And making him to leave.
So that was when they don't liketo, when there's a guy and
they're like, I want to spend the whole night with you.
Maybe we will go for a dinner, then to the bar.
(26:19):
We will talk and I will pay you like this amount.
And she's like, yeah, but I would rather have like 20 guys
every. I will last 15 minutes.
Yeah, but I will have the same amount of money and I don't need
to think about it. Right.
That, that's interesting. But can you talk more about like
(26:40):
the workers and their relationships?
Like are most of them married orsingle?
Just curious about what kind, what types of people that you
get working there? I would say most of them, they
are either in a relationship or they are married.
Some of the husbands, they know what they do and they fully
(27:01):
support it. They some of them, they actually
unlike Rivers general. So she's the breadwinner and he
takes care of the household, raises the seeds, sure, take
care basically of everything. So this this is very typical
(27:22):
because, you know, she makes a lot of money.
So he kind of stays at home. Take care, take, take, take care
of everything. Some of them they are married
and the husband, heaven, the husband has no idea.
Wow. So they are very good at hiding
(27:43):
it and some of them they are single and they just like to
enjoy this, this work and this like part of the lifestyle
before they maybe decide to staywith somebody.
And then we have like girls thatare divorced and then we have
(28:04):
like girls that are single. I mean, as I told you about the
60 years old, she's single. She, she likes to be single for
the whole of her life. She doesn't even like want to
have a relationship. So it's it's very different and
it changes over the time. So for people searching gears
here, so for people that have ever been to a brothel or even
(28:24):
really thought much about it, I would imagine everybody thinks
that there is, you know, some safety practices in place.
So what? What kind of safety does does
your brothel provide for the ladies and for even the
customers in some cases? Maybe, I don't know.
So we have like a couple of security procedures.
(28:45):
So the first thing is that like there are cameras everywhere
except the rules. So all over the club there are
cameras in case anything happened.
Also the customers, they are notallowed to to come in when they
are super drunk or drugged, but basically like when they when
they seem aggressive, the the receptionist, they don't even
(29:08):
let them in. So this is like the first
selection. And then also we have and this
is the most important thing, thepanic buttons.
Every room has at least one panic button.
They are hidden so it looks likea regular like light switch.
And the workers, they are instructed how to press them.
(29:30):
And our our employees they are, they are instructed to be in the
room within 8 seconds from the time when the panic button is
pressed. And they are trained regularly
for this. So this is the the one of the
biggest security procedure that we have that's.
(29:53):
Awesome. Is that something that's
regulated or is that just kind of like a House policy you guys
have? This is stated by the law.
Perfect. Wow.
OK, interesting. I read somewhere also that
because this is legal, you're allowed to get support from the
police if you ever needed it. Exactly.
Yeah. I mean, if there is some
situation when we just don't want to deal with this anymore
(30:17):
or maybe because our our employees, they are instructed
to not to use any physical powerunless super needed.
So and sometimes we get get situations and these are not
extreme situations. Just to give you an example.
So recently we had a guy and theservice was over and he refused
(30:40):
to leave the room. He was sitting there naked.
Well, he thick out and he was sitting there naked and he
didn't want to leave the room. And the girl was like, yeah, but
you need to leave. You know, the service is over.
If you want to stay, you need topay me more.
And he's like, yeah, I don't want to pay you more, but I want
to stay. Oh my.
God, Oh no. And he?
And was he drunk or no? He wasn't drunk.
(31:01):
He wasn't that drunk. He was like, I think he had like
a couple of beers, but nothing extreme.
And it was like 3 AM, 4:00 AM inthe morning.
No, no, that was this guy. And he didn't want to leave.
So our our employees came in andthey were like, yeah, well, you
really need to leave. And we spoke with him and he was
like, yeah, I'm not going anywhere.
(31:21):
Yeah. So then was the time when we
needed to call the police to actually use the force because
we didn't come to harm him in any way.
And it was just a stupid situation.
So to escort him out. Exactly.
So that's that's what the policedid eventually.
It's a huge boss that we are in a legal like low frame that we
(31:43):
can call a police. Your girls are always.
Safe. It's an extra safety measure
that we wouldn't have. Here because otherwise we we
would need to hide, we wouldn't get the opportunity to call the
police so. I want to switch gears for a
second in our world in the States and being swingers and
being polyamorous for us people,our our family and our friends
(32:05):
know what we do. They know about the podcast,
they know about us and our lifestyle preferences, things
like that, which is not common here.
So we've gone through kind of the the, the ropes of the
challenges with coming out to family and things like that.
So I'm curious if you're willingto go down this road with us in
the show here. And it's OK if you're not, how
(32:26):
did the conversations go with your family with with saying
that you are a manager of a brothel?
And again, I don't know, like ifwith a stigma that may or may
not be around that in your country versus here.
But just like, how was it received?
Was it just like any other job with were there tears?
Was there questions? Just how did that kind of
conversation go? Well.
It was definitely hard at the beginning because I accepted the
(32:47):
job. I knew I want to do this.
Also my friend said this. I was 22 exactly.
Right. OK, perfect.
Thank you guys. So my friends, they, they
already knew that I'm applying for this job.
So when I got the job offer, they were like, you know, if, if
it's good for you, then just go for it.
And then I waited like 3 months to actually tell my family
(33:10):
because I don't know if you havethis in US but here you have
like 3 months of probation period.
Right. And basically, like after three
months, you are offered the contract.
So I waited those three months to to be offered the contract.
Then I signed it. And then I went to my family and
I was like, I'm going to be a manager of a brothel.
(33:33):
And they were like, what, what are you going to be?
I was like, yeah. Right.
I already decided and my father,he was like super supportive
from the beginning. And your father is like a rocket
scientist, is that right? Did I read that somewhere?
And people lazy maybe? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
He's a nuclear scientist. Yeah.
So he was super understanding about all of this.
(33:55):
I talked with him about what I do, and he was like, yeah,
that's cool. I mean, if you like it, just go
for it. Completely understand.
My mother on the other way, she was like, what are you going to
do with her? It's still a longer time.
She needed to talk about it a lot with me, which was fine,
(34:20):
yeah, but it took her, I think, several years to actually accept
that. OK, and what about freaking
girls? Do they face any backlash
backlash from their friends or family for being the one
employed in a sex work industry?Yeah, they do.
They do. So that's the reason why most of
them, they don't tell anybody. OK.
(34:42):
Yeah, like very, very few peoplefrom their from their circle.
No. So they said like usually the
husband, not so much the parents.
They don't like to tell them, right?
So, yeah, there's, there's thosestigma.
Even though the sex work is legal, there is a still huge
stigma around it. So, right, I completely
understand that they don't want to tell anybody.
(35:05):
I'm very open about what I do. And you know, if the people
don't like it, it's not really my problem.
It's funny when you think about it.
That's an interesting question because I'm getting the sense
that, you know, outside of America, which I think some of
us could have guessed but maybe not to agree that sex and sex
positivity is much more than norm.
But even in that role of being asex worker at a brothel, like
(35:27):
that's still extremely stigmatized to where you really
wouldn't want to tell anybody. So like, what does that mean
here if you're a sex worker here, right?
Even if like even being a. Stripper, open community there,
it's still stigmatized and then it's like double the back.
And we talked about that here with you and Ruby being
strippers. That is something even that you.
We don't share. With you don't share with there
(35:47):
any people. I mean, we have in the podcast
now recently, but people, you know, in a workplace.
Parents. Not my parents.
Yeah, things like that because that that would be maybe the
equivalent of, you know, in in that country.
Well, I think like when you lookinto the history of monogamy and
how it became the norm, especially women, there's just
so much shame behind even just showing your body.
(36:12):
Yeah. And then losing your body for
money. There is this like, you know,
double standard, because when you are a guy and you're gigolo,
you're ace, but if you're a girland you do the same work, you're
slut, you're whore. Yep, exactly.
So you just think about like, I mean the patriarchy again.
(36:33):
I'm gonna go back to this because you said I read
somewhere your highest paid, you're the girl that makes the
most. She made like 50,000 in a month.
There's going to be this narrative of women should not be
selling their bodies for money because they don't want us to
make more money than men. Exactly.
You know, the money it gives you, it gives you power, power.
(36:56):
You're independent and actually doesn't really like this.
And when I speak with the girls,you know, they are, like, very
most of them. They really enjoy what they do.
You know, they are happy when the client is happy.
But then they are like, yeah, but I can't tell anybody about
this. What?
I like to say the hardest thing about this lifestyle is you
(37:17):
can't share anybody with anybodycan't tell them when I go into
work, I have a regular job righttoo.
I I own a business, but also have a regular job.
When I go into my regular job, every Monday morning when I go
in, the questions are the same from the people, right?
Like how was your weekend? What did you do?
You know, I can't tell them that, Oh, we, we went on a road
trip and we recorded a podcast episode and we stopped at a
(37:38):
strip club for a night and, or Ally and Ruby, you know, did
amazing there. Or yeah, or we can't talk about
swinging or all these fun thingsthat that are really just
positive connection points. We just they're muted in our
life because of the sexual stigma.
Well, and again, going back to the shame factor, why is it
acceptable for a man to visit aninstitution like that but not
(38:00):
for a woman to work there? Kind of a a major double
standard. Yeah, I also got like a little
bit of a backlash because most of the people they kind of
expect die to be at my place. But when there is, when there is
A and she's being a manager, I was told like by many people
that I'm betraying the women because I should be the one who
(38:26):
who wouldn't support this. So yeah.
Interesting. Yeah.
And see, I do that kind of as the opposite.
Those roles, whether stripping or working at brothels, like
it's empowerment to like, yeah, you're, it's, it's confidence to
me to to see that. And being a female manager, I
imagine you understand the needsof your girls probably better
(38:47):
than a male manager. Was exactly well, and I'm going
to go like I want to go down like your background too, like
I'm so interested in. So I majored in psychology as
well, and then I got a masters in counseling.
I see that you're doing organizational psychology, which
will even better help you understand your girls needs and
(39:07):
just how to run a business. And so can you tell us a little
bit more about, yeah, why psychology and like how that
helps you with your profession? So the the psychology choice
was, so I went to this high school.
I don't know if you have this inthe US, but here in Europe you
have this high school for like, smart kids.
(39:28):
Yeah, you need to pass some special exams to, to be able to
study there. So all of my classmates, they
wanted to be like a doctor's lawyer, right, Those kind of
professions. And then I was like, I don't
know what I want to do. Don't we already have a lot of
those? Right, I was.
I just knew that I'm really goodaround people.
(39:48):
I enjoy talking with people. I enjoy like, thinking why
people behave in the way they behave.
What's going on in your hands? So I was like, yeah, well, maybe
psychology. There was very short moment when
I wanted to to join a circus, like, no, you're not doing this.
(40:12):
So then I need to go to university.
So I graduated from psychology but I get the bachelor's degree
from psychology and. And then I kind of felt it was
the time when I was already working as a manager and at the
(40:32):
time I felt like I don't want todo psychology anymore because I
got like a little bit angry on psychology that it has this.
It's so strict sometimes. Exactly.
And there are like norms. What is normal?
What is? It's very black and white
sometimes. Yeah, yeah.
(40:53):
Exactly. And I didn't want to continue
with this. So I took like a gap year and I
wanted to figure it out, like what I want to do.
Like I said, I definitely wantedto study more because this is
something I enjoy. And then I went to study
sociology for the masters and inmy first year of like after the
first year and I decide to go for organizational psychology as
(41:17):
well. So there was this one year when
I studied 2 universities at the same time and I had the full
time job. So that was crazy.
So but I finished the whole thing.
And then I decide to continue with the PhD because I still
wanted to study and I really like the researcher role.
(41:37):
Yeah. So I wanted to just continue
with this and I like my topics so.
Your master's is in organizational psychology as
well. And sociology, Yeah.
And sociology. OK.
Wow, that's awesome. And you're still currently in
your PhD program as well. Or you're done with that.
Yeah, yeah. No, enough of that's already
(41:59):
done. No.
How much longer do you have? Just curious.
I think like eternity. Eternity.
It should be done like normal normally in four years, but
realistically I can't handle it because I, you know, with the
socials and I'm trying to reallythink also about myself.
(42:20):
So I like to have some time justfor me.
Oh, absolutely. But I don't want to push it.
I don't push it like the time when I was studying to masters,
that was really extreme and I don't want to do this anymore.
Yeah. So I like that.
You can take it, do it on your own pace then.
Super healthy to take time for yourself.
Yeah, I love that. This question is going to seem
out of place. I had thought of it earlier but
(42:42):
then our conversation just kept flowing so I never got to ask
it. But I'm still really curious.
So backtracking our conversationnow.
Why would a man get rejected as a potential customer?
Don't go anywhere, We'll be right back.
And also, please find us on our new Instagram page at Cali Fox
Ruby, as this season we'll be uploading behind the scenes
(43:04):
content and other fun moments. Hey Sexies, Cali and Ruby here.
We wanted to take a moment to let you know about a site we're
really excited about and want toshare with you.
SDC Seek Discover Connect is a site for swingers and other non
traditional relationships where you can find people just like
(43:24):
us. With over 3 million members in
over 100 countries, you're certain to find your next sexy
adventure worldwide. On SDC, you can learn more about
the lifestyle through educational articles, podcasts,
and blogs. If you really want to get down
and dirty, you can watch live stream videos or share your own
exhibitions. A favorite element of mine is
(43:47):
the travel feature. When traveling, you can change
your location on your profile, which allows you to connect with
local members and see lifestyle events and clubs in that area.
I can tell you with certainty that some of my favorite nights
have been with members we've metthrough SDC.
Sign up today using our special code 37887 to Get full access
(44:09):
for three days completely free, and follow us at Cali Fox Ruby.
That's CALIFOXRUBY. When you sign up with our promo
code 37887, we'll be able to seeyour profile and connect with
you right away. See you out there.
(44:32):
So either he's being disrespectful, he's thinking
that he can he can have any typeof the service and sometimes
they can be very pushy. And now they are trying to get
like unprotected services and they are trying to to see if the
(44:53):
workers, they can cross their boundaries.
Yeah. So most of like they are like
very skilled. So sometimes they can be like
very pushy. Sometimes they are like drunk
and they are like drunk so much that it is like there is no
point of of trying evil. How often does that happen to
where somebody comes in like percentage wise or like out of
(45:14):
100 or whatever where somebody gets rejected right where
they're like, no, you don't do can't be.
I mean, I don't, I don't have any statistics for this sure,
but it it happens, Yeah, and but.
Every night, maybe. I would say yes, different type
of the services they provide andtheir friend prices for it.
(45:36):
So when there is a customer and his budget is like €200, some of
the workers will not accept him because they their price range
is just different. Sure, it's higher, yeah.
I read a funny story you had posted recently where a customer
had come in and been rejected because his penis was too big.
(46:02):
Does that? Hasn't been a lot.
I guess it was just too big. It was actually in the middle of
the service. So she she gave him a blowjob
and at the time she already saw like he's he's more than
average. And then the blowjob happened
and then she was like, yeah, butthe sex is not happening because
(46:25):
she was too big. This was actually a complaint.
So we teared to go there and solve it.
That's so funny. That's kind of an opposite here,
the stereotypical like a woman wants a really big penis and
then there maybe it's like if you're having sex many times a
night, that might be a disadvantage because then you're
going to become sore or be able to have less sex.
So yeah, that may be the one place or a big penis is a
(46:46):
disadvantage. Right.
So I have a question. You identify as a swinger.
Do you also identify as like polyamorous?
Like do you date multiple peopleat a time?
Oh good. Question so, so far I actually
don't date. I like to be alone.
So I actually like to focus on my life.
(47:07):
But I actually I was in polyamorous relationship.
I tried it because you know, I'mpretty open yeah to experiences.
So I wanted to try. Then the job didn't work out for
me. I guess I'm like really
monogamist because I'm very possessive.
I wanted to try it, you know, And it wasn't like horrible, but
(47:27):
it just didn't fit me. So, yeah, and maybe that
particular dynamic, like a purple and our dynamic just fits
so perfectly. me and I have different needs and so Ox
doesn't feel like overwhelmed because our needs are different.
You're not like doing the same needs.
Right. Just for example, we actually
had an episode on love languagesin the podcast here and
something as simple as that. Languages for Cali is she's
(47:50):
heavier on the affirmation side of things.
Ruby is not. Ruby is more heavy on the access
service. So I feel like if they're both
affirmation anytime, if we were together, it'd be really tough
for me to give them both verbal affirmations at the same.
Time. So just give me a coffee and
tell her she's beautiful. Exactly.
Yeah, exactly. Well, and you guys, you live
together and I don't and so likewe text a lot, but like you
(48:11):
don't really like texting, but you also live together so you
don't. Need you get the proximity time,
which is also something that Ruby likes there's proximity
time right so so yeah, we we need questions about our
throuple a lot just like how does it work the dynamics of
things like that and I think like.
Is what be jealous. Yeah, right.
And I think it just, I think it works or doesn't just like
anybody else you're with and we didn't.
Kind of depends on the person that you're with.
(48:32):
And yeah, so maybe the polyamorous relationships you
were in might not have been the best.
Dynamic. I just really appreciate it when
somebody can like really do this.
I don't think it's for me, but maybe I'll be open to it again.
I like that you even explored itthough, right, Just for the sake
of exploring it to sea, because a lot of people won't even think
to explore because they're too anxious or nervous to do it,
(48:54):
like they're gonna lose themselves in it or be
stigmatized forward or things like that.
So I think it's really awesome they even tried it and.
Then one more question for you if you are comfortable sharing.
So I've we read you, you had this interview with for People
magazine. You yourself have never been a
sex worker. And can you kind of describe why
(49:16):
or why not? Why not?
Because I, I think like, especially when you're seeing
how much these girls are making,like, is that tempting?
I think I'm just curious. Well, actually I think this is
just like my theory. Yeah, but if I wouldn't be hired
as a manager, I might start to be as a sex, I might start to
(49:40):
work as a sex worker because as I said, I'm like very sexually
open. I like to try new things.
But since I started as a manager, I kind of can't, can't
go into the path anymore becauseI'm very, very known here in the
country and also like in different countries.
So I can't really imagines to bethere.
(50:03):
And the managers will be like, what do you want here?
You know? Sure.
So yeah. But financially it definitely
makes sense to be A to be a worker there, to be a manager.
OK, sure. Yeah, the trajectory that you
got on and then kept going. Well, we're coming up to close
to an hour here. We try to keep these episodes to
(50:23):
an hour. So I do have one last question,
but before we do that, definitely want to make sure
people know how to get a hold ofyou and to follow you on your
socials and things. Can you we'll, we'll drop some
links in the podcast as well, but you have an only fans that
people can subscribe to and get real, I guess behind the scenes
stories, if you want to call it that.
That's wording it that way. OK, you're on Instagram.
(50:44):
You also have TikTok. What's the best way for people
to find you that you prefer? Yeah, Instagram.
Instagram, OK. And how do I find you on
Instagram? So it's Katheria under score the
under score Nora. Catherine under score DE under
score NOIRE. Yep.
(51:05):
Right. Exactly.
Yeah. We will put that in the show
notes as well, but for those listening, definitely follow her
on Instagram. Before we wrap things up, is
there any other misconceptions you wanted to talk about or
anything else you had to share some light on and?
Then I'll have one last question.
I guess like the common misconception about sex workers
(51:27):
is that they are, you know, Alcoholics doing drugs, very
irresponsible. Sure.
That's actually the opposite. You know, these women are the
most hard working people that I've ever met.
They have amazing communication skills.
And like a lot of the people, they feel that that sex work is
(51:50):
last resort. But most of them, they have
university degrees. They speak.
I mean, I know one of my really good friends from the industry,
she speaks 6 languages. Wow.
So she can be anywhere else but right, It's a better rational
choice for her to be a sex worker and to earn shit ton of
money. So you're saying like the
(52:11):
misconception is this is they'renot choosing this job, they
can't do anything else because they have no skills, but it's
actually the opposite. Right, they're they're doing it
because they have lots of skillsand they want right it's just a
confident thing to do and. A great way to save up money.
Find a job like that anywhere else.
Probably retire within a couple a couple years.
Or start up a business with thatmoney in a few years or
whatever, Yeah. This is what they do like most
(52:33):
of them, they they retire from the industry and they just start
to invest in some business or they just buy some flats.
Wow. It's awesome.
Or travel the rest of their lives.
Exactly. Here's my last question, right.
And this is open-ended for whatever you want to say.
And I'm sure you get asked this question in different ways, but
what is the craziest story you would like to share with us
(52:56):
that's happened at the Rothwell that you're allowed to share?
Woo Hoo, there's so many fair a few I.
Mean the US, right? Things can be crazy.
But my my favorite is the guy that really likes to do better
cosplay. So he came in this huge polar
(53:18):
bear costume and he wanted to dolike a schema role play.
And it was very cute. You know, he was very prepared
for it. And yeah, super keen about it.
So this is this is what I like to do.
This is what I like about my job, you know, to see the sexual
fantasies about people and some people, they are like very
(53:38):
creative and I really appreciatethat.
So, so the guy comes in. I just want to paint the picture
here in my head. So the guy comes in with a polar
bear costume. He comes in the door already
wearing it. Is that right?
He was already wearing it and wehave this policy that when you
are entering the club, we need to see your head because the
camera. So in case like something's.
Right in the face. So he needed to, actually.
(54:00):
Remove it from the. Exactly.
He needed to remove the the hat so we can see him and you're
like, what is happening here? Why you are wearing a ball?
Butter Costino feels like, yeah,it's my fantasy, I really want
to do this. So then we just let him in and
then he went to enjoy his night.Here's how many people turned
him down. Like I don't know if I can work
(54:21):
with this. Or maybe they gravitate towards
it. The end of that fantasy, then,
Was there another costume that the worker had to wear, or just
all in him to wear the costume? He heard this bag with another
costume for the I think it was like Eskimo costume.
Oh, this is what they play, Eskimo.
Oh yeah, Eskimo. OK, so he's the polar bear
(54:42):
wanting to have sex with the Eskimo God.
That's the fantasy. That's what I was trying to.
That's what I was trying to think through is like, what's
the what's the rest of the fantasy in there?
Right. I'm still confused how these
costumes work. Right.
How do? You flap like there's pride is a
flap. In the last that lifts up.
I don't know. Yeah, I bet just.
(55:03):
And again, with your background in psychology, like just bizarre
behavior, like witness. I love it.
I love it. I know.
Yeah. Yeah.
You're probably are very entertaining.
It's live reality TV, yes. Well, and then now somebody.
Can say they had sex with a polar bear, yeah.
I know, right? Yeah.
There's two sides to this. Story, right?
(55:24):
Yeah, the girl had a great experience.
And for the record too, like notshame that no, we're giggling
about in things only because it's like it's new like story to
hear and. Weird.
Weird is great, Yeah. It doesn't mean that we're gonna
put a polar bear costume on ourselves, but we like hearing
about it. We like people and people being
authentic. So that's what's fun to hear
about it, I think. OK, well, we're going to wrap
(55:44):
the show there, Catherine, if you'd be.
So kind of stay on for a second here to Speaking Top Shop for a
second. And then to the rest of Sex
Positive Nation, thank you so much for joining us for the
first episode of Season 3. We're very excited.
Hopefully you get a hold of of Catherine if you have some
questions or if you're maybe visiting Western Europe and
(56:07):
maybe it'll happen upon her brothel.
We're not giving a location intentionally just for safety
reasons and things like that andother things we adhere to
regarding policies and things. So, but reach out to her and you
know, hopefully you can find herbrothel if you're there.
Thanks, Catherine. Thank you.
Thank you. Thank you for having me,
absolutely thank you for tuning in to the Down and Dirty.
(56:28):
We hope we sparked some curiosity for you today.
If you've enjoyed our content, please like follow our podcast
and share it with your sexy friends.
If today's topic resonated with you, leave us a message at
calliefoxruby@gmail.com. That's CALIFOXRUBY.
(56:49):
We'd also like to take a moment to acknowledge and thank our
gracious sponsors, Couples nextdoor.com.
If you're not a member yet, signup right away so we can see you
at the next event.
Popular Podcasts
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.