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March 8, 2022 64 mins

Talking with Charlie LeVoir about his struggles with drinking and drugging. Charlie opens up about his experiences and building a recovery podcast.  TheWayOutPodcast
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Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Carl Fessenden (00:02):
Hey guys, are you looking for a backstage
pass? How about behind thescenes look at this podcast, I
have exciting news for you.
Starting October 1, we will beopening the doors to the drunk
and warm podcast, and loving ourlisteners join in the funny
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(00:23):
Join an exclusive communitywhere you can talk to other
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and warm podcast monthlynewsletter so that you can stay
informed about upcoming guests,show topics and community. With

(00:44):
four different pledge options tofit any budget. You can flex
your power and become a superfantoday. Alright everybody, and
welcome to today's show. My nameis Carl, the host and the
creator of the drunken wormpodcast. And what a show we have
lined up for you have a reallygood friend on and I was able to

(01:06):
be a guest on his podcast, andhis name is Charlie. And we're
going to jump into which podcasthe is the creator and the host
of. And we're gonna take care ofa little bit of housekeeping
right now. So I want to remindeverybody, if you guys are using
the Apple app, please take thetime to scroll down. If you go
to the main show description,you can scroll all the way down

(01:28):
to the bottom. And there you'regonna find a set of stars. And
be sure to give us a rating, letus know how we're doing. If you
want to leave a comment, itwould be greatly appreciated.
And what that allows otherpeople to do is it allows them
to find shows like mine showslike Charlie's, and it will put
us higher up in the queue. So ifthey look for a recovery
podcast, or a mental healthpodcast, or they have questions

(01:50):
about becoming sober, they cantype those into the little
search box. And it's going toput our shows further up on the
top so that people can find thecontent that we're putting out
there. And it's very helpfulcontent, a lot of people find
our content helpful because wethey we get to tell stories, we
get to hear other people'ssuccess stories, we get to hear
about their struggles and allthe things that go along with

(02:13):
being in recovery. And we get tocelebrate and recover out loud
with those people. So it'sreally amazing when we have the
new connections, and I want totake a moment to thank everybody
for taking the time today andlistening to the show. I really
appreciate everybody's support.
Great news a couple of weeksago, we just hit 3000 downloads.

(02:36):
And that's a huge milestone forme. You know, when we first
started the podcast, I wasn'tsure if anybody was even going
to listen to the podcast. Andnow we've just hit 3000
downloads. So that's incredible.
And if you are a person that isinterested in supporting the
show, please go to the GoFundMe,we are going to be starting our
video podcasting here soon. AndI have a little fundraiser going

(02:56):
to help pay for the cost ofbuying the video equipment and
everything. So if you would liketo support that, it doesn't take
very much to to support theshow, you know, 10 Or maybe 20
bucks if you can, or even lessit, you know, every little bit
helps. But we're trying to bringyou the best content possible.
And I want to try to bring youthat video content. Now that is

(03:17):
going to be more interactive,and is going to up our game for
the drunk and warm podcast.
Welcome to the drunken wormpodcast. Each week, I will be
bringing you dynamic contentthat will educate and inspire.
This podcast was created to talkto mental health professionals
about addiction recovery andtheir own personal stories that

(03:40):
can help inspire us to becomebetter people and live healthier
lives. And again, welcome to theShow, episode number 28. Today,
and what a show we have goingon. my really good friend
Charlie is here. And Charlieactually was the first podcast
that I was interviewed on when Igot into the podcasting gig. And
now we're bringing Charlie backonto the show. And so we want to

(04:01):
make sure that we give Charlie awarm welcome to the drunken warm
podcast. And if you guys arestruggling with addiction or you
struggling with mental healthissues, I hope that the content
that we're putting out for youis going to be informative,
helpful and inspiring. So thatyou can give up drinking you can
give up drugging, and you do nothave to live like that anymore.
We want you to stay well staysober and to have the ability to

(04:23):
live your best lifeAlright, Charlie, buddy, welcome
to the show, brother.

Charlie (04:34):
super glad to be here, Carl. Thanks for having me on.
I'm excited.

Carl Fessenden (04:37):
Absolutely, man.
I just picked out some new intromusic at the beginning of the
year and I actually I reallyliked the upbeat tempo to it. So
thanks Yemen. Yeah, man, it's inand it's royalty free. I found
it on a on soundstripe. So youknow good good stuff going out
there. And and that's that's areally good resource for people
that are looking for royaltyfree music So, yeah, man. So how

(04:59):
are things going for you today?

Charlie (05:04):
Tremendous, absolutely.
Tremendous. It's a great dayhere in the Greater Twin Cities
metropolitan area. We just gotseven inches of fresh snow here.
So winter's not quite over yet.
It's not done with us yet. We'renot winter woods. Yet, Carl here

(05:27):
in the great state of Minnesota.
It's like a winter wonderland.
It's, it's

Carl Fessenden (05:32):
wonderful.
That's awesome, man. Well, I'lltell you what, you can ship some
of your snow over here becausewe desperately need it were you
last summer we were in adrought. And this year started
out really good for us. We had alot of rain come in. And it was
hitting us hard up in the CRS,we had 16 feet of snow in three
days. And but since then, wehaven't had a really good storm

(05:52):
come through. And looks like wemight be getting a little bit of
rain this this weekend whilewe're doing the recording and
stuff. So. So but if you want toship any over, I'm sure we would
not mind. We've got plenty.
That's right, brother. So youare a person and long term

(06:12):
recovery. And you are also thehost of a podcast called the way
out. So I want to talk to youabout all of that tonight or
today, man. So why don't youtell our listeners a little bit
about yourself and how you kindof got into recovery? And and
maybe some of the struggles youhad early on in recovery?

Charlie (06:32):
Yes, sir. Again, Carl, thank you so much for having me
on the show. Super happy to beon and just sharing a little bit
about my journey and what thatjourney has culminated to up to
this moment. Okay, my name isCharlie Lahore. I'm a person in
long term recovery fromaddiction and alcoholism. And

(06:54):
what that means to me is Ihaven't found it necessary to
use drugs, alcohol, or moodaltering substances since
December 6 2014. And if you'reanything like me, that's kind of
a big deal. It's a one day at atime thing for me. And it was

(07:16):
not easy. For me, it was a rockyroad to recovery, anything but
linear. But the recovery I'vebeen able to achieve, has been
nothing short of amazing. Like Ialways believe. And when we when

(07:36):
I think about Hindsight is 2020,right? But today, I always
believe that I always had bigaddict and alcoholic switches
and they were bound to gettripped. Yeah, one way or the
other, those things were gonnaget tripped. And the
circumstances that precipitatedmy addiction and alcoholism. You

(07:59):
know, were unique to me, but Ithink pretty relatable, but that
always used to say, Carl,Charlie, you had the you had the
quickest hand to the cookie jar,always from day one. So, you
know, my addict and alcoholicJean was pretty active pretty
early on. And so if I was thequickest hand of the cookie jar

(08:20):
at age six, or seven, and thathand to mouth, from an alcohol
standpoint, started prettyquick, too. But yeah, my mom
died when I was 11 years old ofcancer. And that was a really
defining moment for me, in mylife. Our worlds changed. Our

(08:43):
mom was everything to us. Shewas our social engineer. She was
our domestic engineer. She wasour educational engineer. She
was everything. She managed ourlives. And when she died, it

(09:03):
left a giant hole. In all of ourlives. I have two brothers one
that's younger than me by 18months and one that's about four
and a half years older than me.
Like we didn't know what how tocope with that. I didn't have
any tools at 11 years old tocope with something of that
magnitude. My dad didn't knowhow to cope with it. I remember

(09:24):
nights, going to sleep with twopillows over my head, because I
was trying to drown out thenoise of my dad crying himself
to sleep. Wow. And that happenedfor weeks, you know, so it was
just a really trying time. Andthat's right in that adolescent

(09:45):
range. And so I really feel likethat was fuel to the fire. I
always had big additivealcoholic switches. And if it
felt good, I wanted more by it.
Add to that A traumaticexperience and suffering, the
loss of my mother definitelyfalls into that category. I had

(10:08):
some big feelings I didn't knowwhat to do with. When you
combine these overwhelmingfeelings that I didn't know what
to do with, combined withadolescence, combined with big
additive alcoholics, which isGame On brother. And so the
first time I drank was a verymemorable experience for me,

(10:32):
Carl, it made me feel in a waythat I had never felt before it,
it instantly got rid of myanxiety, instantly got rid of my
depression, and unlocked thingsin me that I had been unable to

(10:54):
unlock up until that moment,might could stick up to the
guys, I could flirt with thegirls. I could be the person I
always wanted to be, but wasn'table to be that before that,
because I was crippled withthese overpowering emotions that

(11:16):
I didn't know what to do withit. So
at age 14, I found that magicalelixir at a friend's party, his
parents were out of town helived on the lake had a fully
stocked bar. And I couldn't getenough man it was it was the

(11:37):
best feeling that I've ever feltin my entire life. And I just
wanted more and I couldn't helpmyself, I couldn't stop
drinking. at that party. Theytried to stop me they tried to
take it away from me, they triedto cut me off, it didn't work, I
became unmanageable at thatparty. So they stuck me in a dog
kennel outside to contain me.
And they checked on me a fewhours later, and realized my

(12:02):
lips were blue and I wasn'tbreathing. This was the first
time I'd ever gotten drunk. Andmy friend was able to revive me
by pounding on my chest and Iand they proceeded to feed me an
entire bottle of syrup ofipecac. Because they didn't want
to call the cops because it wasnews. We were all underage. And
I vomited for hours, man, it wasit was terrible. It was

(12:25):
horrible. But I didn't focus onthat negative syrup of ipecac I
that I wanted to do Carlos feelthat way again. And that was the
beginning for me. I just wantedto feel that way. As often as I
possibly could.

Carl Fessenden (12:41):
Yeah. And that that really. And wow, what a
tremendous opening for the show.
Thank you for sharing all ofthat. And I'm sorry about your
loss. So early on, and leadinginto that, that path of
addiction for you. But, youknow, it just really goes to
show that when they say that anaddict will go for the feeling

(13:02):
and dam the rest of theconsequences that come from
wanting to feel that feelingagain, chasing that dragon, that
first time feeling again, andthe release that we feel when
all of that happens. That is aperfect example of that
description inside of theaddiction world.

Charlie (13:28):
No doubt about it. It was complete and total freedom
from the bondage. Have thoseterrible emotions that I didn't
know what to do with up untilthat moment? Yes, it was hard
being me, man. And it was hardto be in my own skin for a lot

(13:50):
of reasons that I didn'tunderstand. But at that time,
all I knew is that it feltreally uncomfortable being in my
own skin 99% of the time. Andthe minute I was able to put
alcohol in my system, all thatwas gone. And I felt free.

(14:15):
And I felt alive. And whowouldn't want to feel like that
all the time,

Carl Fessenden (14:23):
man. Sign me up.
Right. Yeah, I mean, it's it'sit just it's so incredible to
hear other people that you know,that I feel I can relate to and
and I'm sure other people outthere that are listening to this
today can find similarities towhere they can relate to. And
that's the danger of theaddiction portion, right is that

(14:43):
we're we look for the relationsthat go along with our
addiction. And so now we have tobreak free from those ties of
the relations, and we have toget into the solution. So
Charlie, tell me a little littlebit about what your experiences
were like, kind of going intoyour addiction. And then where

(15:05):
did that take you to the pointwhere you said I finally have
enough. And you know, I need tobreak free from this. Wait.

Charlie (15:15):
Great question, Carl.
Great question. So this was thesolution for me, right? I found
this thing, this is the answer.
This is how I'm going to be ableto deal with life now is alcohol
and definitely in high school alot of marijuana, because it was

(15:36):
easier to get it was highlyavailable and compatible with
the lifestyle at that time. Andso I did a lot of that. And that
also made me feel good. It wasthat alcohol was always my first
love, no question. So a lotharder to get before turning 21.
So marijuana definitely filledthat void. Look, I got high as

(15:58):
much as I possibly could, I gotdrunk as much as I possibly
could, because it made me feelbetter. And it got me out of me.
And anything that got me out ofme I was in. I was all in it. So
I was a binge eater through highschool, chronic marijuana smoker
and a binge drinker. And I havethese episodes, these really out

(16:24):
of control episodes with alcoholand marijuana. I mean, it was my
maintenance thing it kept minekept the IQ at bay. And I did
that every day and it kept theticket pay. And every time I
drank it was completelyunmanageable. And I would be out
of control and I didn't know howto control and I didn't want to

(16:46):
control it in the beginning. Iwent to treatment when I was 15
because of that first drunkenincident where I got locked in
the dog kennel and had alcoholpoisoning my parents made me go
to treatment and I just foundthis stuff like like what you
want me to you want me to whatnow quit for the rest of my

(17:08):
life. And I literally just foundthe magical elixir. That's
hilarious. And so I lied in theintake, so I didn't have to go
to inpatient. And I quicklylearned what they wanted to
hear. And I waxed poeticallyabout steps in recovery that I

(17:29):
had no interest in working. AndI was about to coin out I was
pointing out isn't the processof coining out and everyone
everyone in my treatment. Piedo, Charlie, you're going to
stay sober forever, Charlie, ifI had the wisdom you had your

(17:51):
great Charlie, you're like arecovery ninja. Wow. And then I
lean the head treatmentcounselor who I didn't even
think was listening. Carlusurps the circle grabs the coin
says Charlie, you're lying tothis group you're lying to
yourself you're probably goingto use again and it's probably

(18:16):
gonna kill you. Wow. And thenshe walked out of the room

Carl Fessenden (18:23):
little reality check there man. Yeah,

Charlie (18:25):
Eileen saw right through the BS for sure. And as
my use accelerated as my diseaseprogressed and as I'm wrestling
with this growing demon insideof me this thing that I'm not

(18:47):
really willing to reckon withbecause I know it's quickly got
more control of me that I dohave it. But I'm not willing to
admit that yet. I reckon withthat especially not in high
school. But every time a severeincident would happen or a

(19:10):
consequence would happen. I leanwould come back into my
consciousness and I would thinkof the you're lying to yourself,
you're lying to this groupyou're going to use again and
it's probably gonna kill you.
She was that voice of reason forme. Yeah. And out of high
school. I got a girl pregnantand had my first child and sort

(19:33):
of tried to stay straight alittle bit and cut the boosts he
met me when I was on a secondstatus stint of sobriety after a
DWI. So you know, in the highestout of high school and into my
early 20s I'm drinking heavy andit's been a lot of binge
drinking karo and, and justevery time I drink hard liquor,

(19:57):
I can't it's like How to Controlit's like it's out of control, I
have no ability to control it.
So I got a DWI. And a nudge fromthe judge. This is my second
DWI, or DUI. And so I got an adfrom the judge that said you had
to go to 12 step meetings, okay,I'll go to 12 step meetings

(20:18):
fine, and get my car outside.
And half of me was in these 12step meetings, like, wanting
what these people had, but notwilling to admit that to my son.
And half of these like thesepoor bastards. They need this
clearly, they need this. And I'mglad they have it. But I don't

(20:41):
need it. This was a phase. I'mgoing to manage this thing
better now. And I wasn't reallycommitted, I didn't work any
steps I wasn't. You know, theycall it the wall. You know,
having doing the wall steps. Ifyou work wall steps, you're
gonna have off the wall program.

(21:01):
So I stayed sober for like ayear, I was 21. I stayed sober
for a year on Wall steps andfellowship, ended up getting the
mother of my two childrenpregnant, and felt like I needed
to like step up as a father. SoI tried to check the alcohol at

(21:26):
the door. At that point, shethought she met me when I was
sober. But it was likeaddiction, whack a mole, man,
like, okay, so I wouldn't drinkand then food became a problem
or sex became a problem, or pornbecame a problem. And so there
it was like this, this monsterwas still inside of me.

(21:47):
Regardless of whether I wasactively indulging it or not,
money became a thing. I mean,like anything that felt good.
Yeah, I couldn't manage it withany sort of appropriate balance.
Yes. The marriage didn't workout, get divorced. And I'm off

(22:08):
to the races again, man, like noaccountability. And even during
the marriage, like I wouldbinge, she just wouldn't know
it. And the divorce was hard.
And another big change and a lotof overwhelming feelings and off
to the races. And from thatpoint on over to war marriages,
I ran into two truths that Iincreasingly couldn't deny. The

(22:39):
first truth was over any lengthof time, my drinking and
addictions would becomeunmanageable. I couldn't manage
them. They would result in somesort of external or internal

(23:04):
consequences, consequence thatwould become unmanageable a DWI,
a loss of a relationship, somesort of internal breakdown.
And the second truth that I keptrunning into was I couldn't stay

(23:27):
sober by myself, for any lengthof time, I just couldn't. So I
kept running into these twodifferent screws. And you know,
if I would, I would say hardliquor is the problem that only
drink beer, that becameunmanageable, wow, alcohol is a
problem. So only smoke weed, butthat became unmanageable. Well,

(23:47):
I can't do drugs or alcohol,well, then, you know, food or
porn or something else becomesunmanageable. So so it was just
this addiction, whack a mole,but I still just wasn't ready to
reckon with the fact that I thatI'm an addict and alcoholic. I'm
on my third marriage. And we'reliving together. We've got this

(24:09):
giant house. We both got greatcareers. We got kids, hers. Mine
didn't have ours together. Butwe had hers and mine kids in
this giant house with greatcareers. And I can't stop
drinking, man. I'm drinkingevery day. And I've got

(24:29):
everything like I've got I'vegot a good looking wife. I've
got this great job and she's gota great job and, you know,
externally, everything's justgangbusters and I'm dying
inside. And I'm falling apartinside. And it's a it's a game.

(24:51):
It's a shell game. Yeah, it's aJekyll and Hyde thing. And she
taps me in the hallway one timeafterward. It was a weekend.
Thanks. Like, Charlie, you drinkevery day. Wow. Oh, baby. I do.

(25:11):
You're right. But it's not aproblem. I only have a few. No.
The problem Carl with lying tosomebody that's a rd smarter
than you and Be not drunkbecause it doesn't work out very
well. So she starts counting andI'm like trying to rotate beers
in the fridge and do this thingand she quickly realizes is way

(25:33):
more than a few. Yeah. She'slike you got you're getting
drunk every night. Is are yousure? It seems odd to me? Yeah.
It's look, I can quit anytime Iwant. Huh? She's like, cool,
quit for 30 days. I'm like,Okay, I should have seen that
cup. And you know, I should?
Sure to see now. So I quit for30 days on Marlboros and

(25:58):
resentments, which I do notrecommend, right.
But I convinced her after that30 days. See, I told you, I'm
not an alcoholic. Now, her dadwas an alcoholic, and locked out

(26:20):
on her on her birthday when shewas a young gal. And so I'm not
gonna get too much of her story.
That's her story. But, butsuffice it to say that
she had not she did not havedesigns of marrying an alcoholic

(26:41):
on purpose. And I wasn't reallyready. I wasn't. I hadn't
reckoned with my own alcoholismyet. But I certainly didn't tell
her that I had been totreatment. I certainly didn't
tell her that I had had DW eyesalready have that. I didn't tell
her any of that. And I didn'ttell her that on purpose.

(27:03):
Because I knew her history. Hmm.
And I wanted to be different. Iwanted not to be an addict. I
wanted not to be an alcoholic. Ireally did and desperately
wanted to have alcohol in mylife. And but I desperately also
wanted not to be an alcoholic. Iquit for 30 days and Marlboros
and resentments and convincedher that it was cool to buy some

(27:26):
booze for Thanksgiving and myson's birthday, which every few
years falls on the same day. Andsaid, Okay, I said, Don't worry,
I'll get it. I'll get it all goto the liquor store. I got
enough booze to get an armydrunk. And there's like three of
us drinking four. And I neverlike to put myself in this box,

(27:51):
that I'm only gonna drink Xamount because I knew myself
well enough. Although I wasn'tready to reckon with the fact
that I was an alcoholic. I knewmyself well enough to know that
I shouldn't put myself in thatbox. I'm only gonna have x
amount, but like, everything wasriding on this car, all of it.
My marriage, like all of it waswriting and I just didn't want

(28:14):
to get divorced again, man,like, Yeah, really? Okay, this
was the third my third wife,okay, I just didn't want to get
divorced again. Okay. And I getdrunk. Of course, I can't stop
myself. I'm cutting the turkeyand almost cut my hand off
because I'm drunk. I'm drinkinghalf glasses of wine that aren't

(28:39):
mine. My parents leave afterthis show that I put on this.
She's What's wrong with you? Andshe wasn't trying to be mean to
really want to know. Like,what's wrong with you? My dad
looks at her no, my dad. My sonlooks at her and says, What are

(28:59):
you talking about? He's justdrunk again. And the facade that
I had, thought I had, wascompletely gone that veil of
Jekyll and Hyde like I wasfooling people, it was gone. My
son who was 11 at the time,totally saw right through it

(29:22):
all. He knew that I wasn'tdrunk. She's like, you got to go
to treatment. You just got togo. Okay, I'll go to treatment
not because I want to get sober.
Not because I'm having anydesigns on reckoning with my own
alcoholism, or addiction. Ihonestly just didn't want to get

(29:47):
divorced again and go throughthat all over again. I've done
it twice. It's awful. Yes, it'sawful. I didn't want to lose
everything again. I just didn'twant that again. And I didn't
want to fail. Again sorry, go totreat, I go to the treatment

(30:07):
counselor's office and I gotmotivated. I'm going halfway
across town man, like theydidn't have any availability. So
I'm literally driving an houracross town to this facility in
and I get into the treatmentcounselor's office for the
admission, and I just, she'slike, why are you here? And I

(30:28):
wasn't planning on it. But Ijust broke down, man, I cried
like a baby. And I and for thefirst time in my entire life,
and I cannot to this day tellyou exactly why. That was the
moment that I decided that itwas time to get completely
honest with her and myself aboutthe true on adulterated nature

(30:53):
of my addiction and alcoholism.
But I did besides to say that Iwas just sick and tired of
living the way that I was livingand I was sick of running. Yeah,
I was sick of running from it.
And I was sick of trying tomanage it. I was just, I was

(31:15):
done. I was just done. And so Ijust got honest with her about
everything. And she said, Okay,sounds like you're in the right
place. What do you want to getout of this thing, Charlie?
Well, I want to know why I amthe way I am. I just wonder why.

(31:36):
She kind of laughs and she says,Okay. Let's say it's because
your mom died when you were 11.
And that trauma was the impetus?
Let's say it was you've alwayshad big addict and alcoholic
switches and they were bound toget tripped. Let's say it's a
combination of the two. Do youthink if you figure out exactly

(31:59):
why you are an addict and analcoholic, that you'll ever be
able to drink safely again? No,no, I don't. Do you think you'll
be able to use safely again? No,I don't. And I truly reckon with
that at that moment. That Nope.
There's no way I am, in fact, onable to manage this anymore.

(32:22):
I've tried everything. I'vetried everything I've tried at
all. And my own devices were notsufficient. So I'm willing to
try something else to say cool.
So we figure out how you getbetter. Instead of worrying
about why you are the way youare. And that was that first

(32:48):
light bulb moment that it didn'tmatter how I turned into a
pickle. The reality is, I turnedinto a pickle. And now it's too
hard to figure out how to getwell. And like a good addict and
alcoholic, Carl, I dove intorecovery. Like I dove into

(33:12):
addiction and alcoholism. Yeah,100%. And I just wanted to get
better. And I just wanted to getto a place where I felt okay.
Again, cuz I hadn't felt likethat in probably 25 years.
sober, like, I never felt okay,sober. And so that was the goal

(33:35):
was just to get well enough tobe okay.

Carl Fessenden (33:38):
Wow. Well, that's, that's an incredible and
tremendous story to hear youtalk about and as you were
talking about this, it reallyreminded me of that saying that
we are as sick as our secrets.
And for you to hold on to thosesecrets through that third
marriage. And to put on thatpersona of hey, I'm okay. We're
okay. You're okay. There'snothing out of the normal going

(34:01):
on here. But to have an 11 yearold child see through the masks
and the whole production of thatevening, to call you and say
hey, no, he's drunk. And to havethat lead you into that
addiction treatment center, andfor you to now sit down and

(34:25):
think about the idea of becomingtruthful with yourself, not only
the lady across from the table,but with yourself now. And
that's so tremendous to hear,Charlie, and I'm so proud of you
to be able to do that. And thatmoment, because I am now able to
sit with you. And I know thegreat things that you have done

(34:50):
in your life. And I see thetremendous effort that you've
put into your recovery Workingthe steps and doing all of that.
So you had gone to a programbefore, and you'd gone to a 12
step program before. And you puton the, the show for them. Like,

(35:10):
hey, I'm one of you guys,everything is good. But what was
it like for you now to go backinto your 12 STEP program, with
some humility, and acceptanceand willingness now, to actually
take a look and try to work areal program or if recovery

Charlie (35:35):
was the most wonderful experience, perhaps of my life,
up until this moment in thatcar, for the first time. I
started truly listening to otherpeople's stories, and other

(36:00):
people's experience, strengthand hope. And it blew my mind.
Because I related to them forthe first time in my life on a
level that I've never related toany human being in my entire
life. In such an intimate andraw way. They felt like I felt,

(36:25):
they felt like I thought theydid what I did. They drank like
I drank, they used like I usedand they got better. And they
had this unmistakable glow ofpeace and serenity about them

(36:51):
that I wanted, they hadsomething that I finally really
wanted. And I was willing to dowhat they did, in order to get
it. Which for me meant workingthe steps in order to the best

(37:13):
of my given ability with asponsor. And I did that. And I
listened to a lot of Joe andCharlie, in the beginning,
because they say, it took Billand Bob to write the book and
Joe and Charlie to explain it.
And I couldn't agree with thatsentiment any stronger. And they

(37:35):
just kept saying, as they'rewalking me through this magical
text, just run the experiment,Charlie. Don't worry about the
process. Don't worry about ifthat makes sense. Just do it to

(37:55):
the best of your given abilityand judge the result. And if
you're not happy with theresults at the end of this
thing, will happily refund yourmisery. That made sense to me. I
had nothing to lose, right. Icould always go back to that

(38:16):
horrible moment in my life.
Like, I just never want to feellike that ever again, Carl, ever
the way that I felt when my sonsaid that and the way that I
felt when it all came crashingdown in that treatment
counselor's office. I neverwanted to feel that way again.

(38:38):
And I was willing to do whateverit took not to. And I had this
sinking feeling that if I didn'ttake this chance at recovery
seriously, that I'd be feelingthat way, a whole lot more. And
I don't know that I could havetaken that. So I dove in, and I

(39:01):
worked these steps. I wipe theslate clean on a higher power. I
hated God. I hate tid. That guytook my mom away. Yeah, okay. I
made a very fateful decision at11 years old that I didn't need
God and I didn't need otherpeople. I wiped that clean. And

(39:26):
I started praying to a God thatI didn't understand. And it's
very simple prayers. In themorning, I get on my knees and
ask for help. That's it. That isit. That night, I would thank
this unnamed mysterious forcefor another day sober, but I

(39:50):
meant it. But I meant it. And mylife started getting better and
the realization claim that thisGod that I have no real concept
of isn't changing, my boss isn'tchanging my girlfriend isn't

(40:12):
changing my kids. This higherpower is changing me. Yeah, and
how I relate to my boss, mygirlfriend and my kids.
And that karo was a big epiphanythat I had as I worked through

(40:36):
these steps,then my higher power has the
ability to change me in a waythat I was not able to do
before. I tried to be goodbefore I tried to make changes
before I tried to wasn't forlack of effort, man. I really
tried. But I was not able tostay sustain any meaningful
change prior to working aprogram of recovery. And this

(41:02):
program in recovery allows me tosustain these changes. Because I
have tools today, now that allowme to do that. Equally as
important, Carl, was therapy. SoI did the steps, the 12 steps,
and I did EMDR therapy inparallel. And I'm convinced that

(41:29):
that was the secret formula forme. Yeah, that's I need to both
I needed to work through thetrauma, right, and to work
through that stuff. Yeah. And soI'm very grateful, I'll always
be grateful to my third ex wife,because she had the grace, even

(41:54):
though she hated my guts, andhad a lot of good reason to do.
So. She had the grace, to allowme to be on her insurance so
that I could complete mytraining.

Carl Fessenden (42:12):
What a gift. It was.

Charlie (42:16):
It? Yeah, a true gift.
Yeah. So I'll always have a tonof gratitude that didn't end the
way I want. It didn't end theway I wanted it to. I don't
regret it today, I have anamazing girlfriend that I would
not have met, if it wasn't forthat. But I have a lot of
gratitude toward her for that.

(42:40):
And working through the steps.
You know, it was a messy deal,right. But I was I was able to
get through resentments. And Iwas able to get through a lot of
that stuff. Because this programgave me the tools to be able to
move through that stuff to getto a place of forgiveness of
self and others around so manythings across so many

(43:02):
relationships. And that's reallythe power of the program that I
work on a daily basis is thatit? It really restores my
relationship with myself, theGod of my understanding, and the
people around me, yeah, thosethree elements are really

(43:25):
important in life. And I wasable to get those right, working
these steps. And I continue toadd tools to my toolkit to be
able to sustain a meaningfulrecovery and continue on my path
of wellness, in that, how Iinteract with people matters,

(43:47):
the actions I choose matter. Andso today is, you know, a very
different kind of experiencebecause of the tools I've
accrued throughout my recovery.
Wow,

Carl Fessenden (44:05):
that's, that's so tremendous Charlene and I
really, I mean, I have to say,I'm so blessed to have friends
like you to have people thatthat do podcasting. Because, man
I really like if I hadn'tstarted podcasting, man, I

(44:26):
wouldn't have met all of theseamazing people like you Charlie
and to hear your stories onshows like this. And this very,
it's, it's, I feel so intimateof this episode, and the the
truth and the honesty, and theacceptance of yourself and all

(44:46):
of these wonderful things thatare going on during during this
moment right now with you and meand and the people listening.
So, you know, just my gratitudeis full right now. because I'm
able to sit here with you, andlisten to your story, and I want
to thank you for that man.

Charlie (45:07):
Thanks, brother. I appreciate that. And I
appreciate being here with youbeing able to share it.

Carl Fessenden (45:12):
Yeah, absolutely. So, Charlie, let's
talk a little bit about the wayout and how you got into the
podcast. It sounds like youwould listen to podcasting.
Originally, when you were kindof coming into recovery, very
similar to myself, I listened toyour podcast, and I listened to

(45:32):
Shane Kramer's podcast. And youknow, so there were there was
there are some similaritiesthere, between you and I, with
that. And so, tell us a littlebit about the show. And how did
you come up with the name andand what is your podcast all
about? Man?

Charlie (45:50):
It's great question. So the inspiration came because as
I said earlier, this time inrecovery coming in, I truly
listened to people for the firsttime. And their stories really
moved me and started changing mein profound ways. And truly gave

(46:17):
me hope and a true desire to dowork,
deep, uncomfortable work inorder to get what they got. So I
also listened to a lot ofspeaker tapes. But I'm thinking

(46:43):
like, like these stories have toget out of the church basements?
Yes. They have to get out of thespeaker tape.
And if they do, then otherpeople will have a chance to
hear these stories, and maybe itwill change them too. Yeah. And

(47:03):
the physical this thoughtwouldn't go away. But that was
also mixed with another thought,which was the last two attempts
at recovery me you only caredabout what you had to say. You
weren't interested in anybodyelse, or what they had to say.
So it was also a way to make anamend and share other people's

(47:26):
stories. So that was the impetusof it. A the stories need to get
out because they're going tohelp people. And they're going
to change people. They're goingto show people that this thing's
possible, that rewarding,meaningful recovery is possible.

(47:51):
And they're gonna show you howto do it. Yeah. Because they're
gonna tell you how they did it.
And that was the impetus, I callit the way out as an open mind
to The Big Book of AlcoholicsAnonymous, which was originally
going to be titled The way out.

(48:13):
Hmm. But there was already atleast one book, I think, many
called that. So they, theydidn't want to call it that. So
they just simply called itAlcoholics Anonymous. So it's a
no mind to the original workingtitle of The Big Book of
Alcoholics Anonymous. And this,the podcast shows the way out.

(48:35):
Yeah. Everybody who shares astory that shows how they got
out.

Carl Fessenden (48:40):
Absolutely. And you you guys have been been
doing podcasting. And I alsohave to we have to mention
Jason, who is one of your cohost, Jason and he was on. He
was on the recovery revolutionlive show, which I co host. He
was one of our one of our hostson there

Charlie (49:00):
is a brother from another mother. He is so great.
He's amazing. I started thepodcast by myself. And at some
point, I'm like, I need a cohost like, man, do I need a co
host because I cannot do thisthing sustainably by myself to
release one episode. We do oneepisode a week every week. Yeah.
And I just it was burning me outa little bit. Yeah. It's a lot

(49:25):
of work. You know, that carcasts a lot of work.

Carl Fessenden (49:28):
Yeah, it definitely is. Yeah,

Charlie (49:33):
it's been a beautiful relationship. Jason is a
tremendous human being. I lovethat guy. He produces tremendous
interviews. Yeah. And it's, it'sbeen a beautiful relationship.
For now. He's, he's he joinedepisode 97. And we've got 281

(49:58):
Yeah, you do the math. That'samazing. He's been a part of it
for a good stretch.

Carl Fessenden (50:03):
Yeah. And you guys are so close to the amount
of episodes that Shane hasproduced on his podcast, as
he's, I think next week will behis 300th episode. Oh, really?
Okay. Yeah. So that's, that'spretty amazing. And, and for
those of you that are listening,I want to let you in on a little
secret because Shane Raymer. AndCharlie and I, we are going to

(50:29):
be getting together and doing alive stream. On Charlie, what
did we say March 14. We did saythat March 14, which is going to
be a Monday. And it's going tobe at I believe, if 5pm or 6pm.
Pacific Standard Time, we willour shows we'll be releasing
more information about that, asit gets a little bit closer. But

(50:53):
we are going to be doing a livestream and it's going to be
myself, Shane, Charlie, and ourother good friend who I don't
think Charlie or Shane have metbefore. But Brett from The
recovery survey podcast. Sowe're going to have four
podcasts host talking recovery.
And it's it's gonna be soawesome. Because I heard the

(51:15):
roundtable that you and Shanedid on on one of his episodes. I
think it was like three monthsago or something. Yeah. And that
was so cool. I was driving downto Monterey. And it was one of
the episodes that I caughtdriving down there. And I was
like, Oh, I've got to get out onthis man.

Charlie (51:32):
It was tremendous. It was a blast doing that panel.
With Jason. Yeah, Dean. The oldway out podcast co host Seine
River and static. That wasgreat. We had a great time. You
heard it here. First, folks.
March 14, we are gonna have atremendous panel discussion with
for recovery. podcasters I can'twait. Yeah,

Carl Fessenden (51:58):
it's gonna be amazing, man. It's gonna be my
first panel. And with with noguests, we're just going to be
talking talking about us. We'regoing to be talking about
recovery. And we're going to betalking about maybe some crazy
shenanigans that we've gotteninto before like that. Yeah.
Everybody else. We all have togive a shenana Yeah,

Charlie (52:19):
I've got a few yarns.

Carl Fessenden (52:21):
Well, you almost get your hand off, man. So you
know, I have I have faith inyou, Charlie for coming up with
some pretty good material forus.

Charlie (52:33):
I've got a few yards I can spend about 10 days gone by
car. Right.

Carl Fessenden (52:38):
Exactly. Shane's gonna bring up his story about
pulling the ebrake going into iscalled a sec, I'm sure. Have you
heard that story? I have not no.
Okay. Yeah, so why don't youbring that up? I will. But I
heard him say that on thatinterview, and I just envisioned
like, the slow motion Fast andthe Furious scene going where

(52:59):
it's just like slow motion orpulling as a break in front of
like, his whole family and he'sdrunk and just awful. So yeah,
that's that's gonna be classicman. Absolutely. So well, great,
man. You know, I got I got alittle something for you,
Charlie. And you are going tolove this. Because right now,

(53:20):
brother, it is time to do alittle rapid fire questions. My
friend. How does that sound? Youready? Alright. rapid fire
round. Okay, Salty or sweet.
Sweet. Morning or evening?
Morning. summer winter Do youprefer driving or flying?

(53:44):
Driving? Do you kill? Do youkill bugs you find inside or
take them outside?

Charlie (53:57):
I used to kill them now

Carl Fessenden (54:01):
wow, you're you're a much better person. I
am on my live stream last weekthere was a spider that was
trying to escape my my view andI smashed it on the wall during
the live stream. Oh, and I haveto tell you, I'll tell you my my
my story later after we do this.
All right. Do you believe inghosts? Yes. Hmm. Do you believe
in soulmates?

Charlie (54:24):
Yes, but not just one.

Carl Fessenden (54:25):
Do you sleep with stuffed animals? Can you
freestyle rap? Absolutely not.
Oh, I was gonna say Man, if youcould do that. We're so doing
that on the live stream. Allright. What is your favorite
board game?

Charlie (54:41):
Whoa, I like that. I would be it's probably a little
bit out there but it's called.
Probably less favorite now. Solet's take it to ride.

Carl Fessenden (54:56):
Okay, okay, cool. What was your major in
college?

Charlie (55:01):
organizational leadership.

Carl Fessenden (55:03):
Whoo. I like that. All right. What is your
lazy go to dinner?

Charlie (55:10):
Oh, leftover leftovers.
Whatever's left over the fridgewe cook all weekend we have a
leftover night and it's myfavorite night.

Carl Fessenden (55:17):
Okay. All right.
All right. What is a good spy?
codename for you?

Charlie (55:30):
Spy Cody you got me?
Ah, ah, tacos.

Carl Fessenden (55:43):
I'll give you a bell for that one. Alrighty. And
what is your favorite moviegenre? Western Western. Okay.
And the last question that wealways ask all of our guests on
the drunken warm podcast. Who isyour favorite Disney character?

Charlie (56:00):
Hmm. Now, I've got some clarifying questions.

Carl Fessenden (56:06):
Everybody always has clarifying questions about
this one.

Charlie (56:11):
Disney's kind of an empire. Right. Okay, own they
own number of franchise. Right.
So

Carl Fessenden (56:21):
anything within the Disney franchise? Anything
within the Disney franchise?

Charlie (56:27):
Is Marvel within Disney?

Carl Fessenden (56:30):
I don't think it is. But Star Wars is. Whoo.
Yeah.

Charlie (56:43):
I'm gonna go with Scrooge McDuck.

Carl Fessenden (56:51):
Scrooge McDuck.
That is interesting.

Charlie (56:57):
Because that's like, the penny pinching is sort of
like to me that's Nickelodeon.
Right. But Mr. Krabs he's likemy spirit animal. Yeah, right.
Give me my money. Yeah. So yeah,I'm going with Scrooge McDuck.

Carl Fessenden (57:14):
Alright, that's, that's definitely a good one
there for you know, we'll giveyou a ding for that one, too.
Thank you very much, Charlie.
All right. Well, my friend, it'sbeen a blast having you on this
show. Tremendous episode today.
And I can't wait for this to airman. It's gonna be so amazing.
But why don't you wrap up theshow for me, and let people know

(57:37):
how to find you. Where can theyfind the podcast? And if they
want to get a hold of you? Andyou know, what's the whole
process, man?

Charlie (57:45):
Yeah. I appreciate that. Carl. We love doing what
we do. We love sharing powerfulrecovery stories and recovery
power topics. Every week, withamazing folks just like you. You
can find us at all the mainpodcast aggregators, iTunes,

(58:08):
Spotify, Stitcher, and the wholeslew of them the way out
podcast. Now you can reach me atshare at Weigh out cast.com That
share at Weigh out cast thatcalm, or you can just go to
weigh out cash all one word.comand has all the great info there

(58:29):
as well. We're doing recoverycoaching, I just completed not
too long ago, I'm a recoverycoach professional. And so we've
added that as a service for ourlisteners, and anybody who wants
to take advantage of somerecovery coaching. So that we
can really help you with yourrecovery from a more intimate

(58:50):
perspective, great way to beable to take advantage of that,
but weigh out cast calm, andthat gets you everything you'd
ever want.

Carl Fessenden (58:57):
Absolutely.
Well, Charlie, it has been anhonor and a pleasure to have you
on the show. And if you guyswould like to go over to
Charlie's website or find hispodcast, the way out podcast, we
will be providing the links inour show notes. So be sure to
check those out so that you guysdo not miss a beat. And you can
follow us. And again, if you'reon Apple podcasts, hit that

(59:18):
subscribe button and send us alike, or give us five stars or
four stars. Hopefully not threestars. But however you feel you
want to be generous with thestars. And give us a give. Let
us know how we're doing becauseI'll be honest with you guys,
you know, we put all thiscontent out there. And a lot of
time it's it's very kind ofblinding. Well, not blinding,

(59:42):
but we put it out there and it'ssometimes we don't get feedback.
So the more you guys can give usfeedback about episodes if you
really liked the episode, or youhave show suggestions for both
podcasts. It's reallyappreciated to get in contact
with us. If you want to go to mywebsite, you can always sign up
for our email club. We'restarting to do a little bit more

(01:00:04):
with that. I have like fourpeople on the email club. So I'm
kind of holding off on sendingout emails because I don't want
to lose those four people if Isit on like 10 emails a month.
But as the club is going togrow, it will allow you to be
filled in on upcoming guestepisodes, and also the recovery
revolution live, we're going tobe putting out notifications so

(01:00:27):
that you guys can watch the liveshow. And that show airs every
Thursday at 5pm Pacific StandardTime. You go over to YouTube,
and you type in recoveryrevolution live, and that will
take you over to our livechannel. So again, Charlie, it's
been great pleasure having youon the show, sir.

Charlie (01:00:49):
It's been an absolute pleasure as well Carl, you are
an amazing human. So thank youfor having me on and everybody
out there. If you are in a placewhere your substance use has got
unmanageable. Ask for help. Andyou will be amazed at the

(01:01:15):
support that will come your wayif you just ask for that

Carl Fessenden (01:01:20):
help.
Absolutely. And remember, youain't got to live like that. No
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