September 25, 2025 • 35 mins
One missed appointment, that's all it took. And suddenly I was facing weeks without my ADHD medications.
This time I’d done everything right, so for once this isn't on me! I had scripts sorted, appointments booked, all lined up, ready to go. Then my doctor went on unexpected leave, leaving me completely stimulant-free and flailing. The fallout was brutal: executive function collapsed, my car and room turned into chaos, appointments slipped, and even the podcast stopped for a bit there (sorry everyone).
ADHD meds aren’t just about focus, because stopping them suddenly makes symptoms rebound even harder. It also shows how fragile access is under the current system, with rigid rules and long waits. Thankfully, changes are coming in NSW where GPs will soon be able to prescribe directly, making life easier for so many of us.
Now that I’m back on track, the podcast is rolling again with new Q&As and intake interviews. If you’ve faced your own medication access struggles, I’d love to hear your story.
At the end of this episode I also pass judgement over the developments around certain pain medications and the development of autism spectrum disorder. My conclusions perhaps differ slightly from those presented by the US government at this time.....
You can follow me on Instagram: @elliot.t.waters, and the show on Facebook!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 00 (00:09):
G'day everybody, my name is Elliot Waters, and
you're listening to the DisRegulator Podcast.
As always, thank you for tuningin.
Alright, today's episode is allabout medication emergency.
I have had some problems havingaccess and being able to use
two of my medications, two of mymeds that I really, really need
(00:31):
to help be able to get throughthe things I need to do
throughout the day.
So that's a little hint as towhat I'm talking about.
Now, this is a story.
If you get a mood chart ofmine, I've said this a lot on
the podcast, maybe not recently,but it still rings true today.
If you get a mood chart of mineand then overlay podcast
(00:52):
episode output, you know, achart of that, overlay that, uh,
you'll see there's a directrelationship, it appears,
between my mood being good andlots of episodes being produced,
and when I'm in a real lowmood, not many episodes are
getting produced at all.
Um, so recently my mood hasdropped big time because of my
(01:13):
inability to use two of myprescribed medications and my
ability to hone my focus on thethings I need to be attending to
and to follow through with thethings that I need to do.
My ability to do that has beenseverely hindered as well
because these two medicationshaven't been available to me.
(01:34):
So there's a little hint as towhat I'm talking about.
Um, some of you will be going,hey, I get that too, especially
of those of you with ADHD.
This may sound very familiar,this story.
Um, but I want to make it clearthis time though, it wasn't my
fault.
So in the past, I'll admit I'vegone above and beyond maybe my
(01:55):
prescribed dosages in an effortto be able to get more things
done during the day.
Okay.
I'm not saying it's the rightthing to do, but at the same
time, that's why I've done it.
Uh, not because of any sort of,you know, I want to feel high,
I want to feel euphoric andamazing.
It's got nothing to do withthat at all.
Um, it is because there aretimes my inner critic, often and
(02:16):
the workaholic within, say I'veachieved nowhere near enough
during the day to be able torelax.
So therefore, I have thispressure to achieve more.
And to do that, I'll dowhatever it takes, and that
includes going above myprescriptions every now and
then.
So sometimes at the end ofthose prescriptions, especially
for these two medications inparticular, I find myself a
(02:38):
little bit short, and there is aperiod of time where I have to
go without the medications untilI get my new scripts.
But as I said, this time itwasn't my fault, and we're going
to explain all of that in aminute.
But before I do, I just want tosay as well that at the end of
this episode, seeing as thoughwe're talking about medications
and drugs, I'm going to passjudgment very quickly over the
(03:01):
comments made by US PresidentDonald Trump regarding the use
of paracetamol or acetaminophon,as it's called in the US.
And let me tell you, it took mea long time to be able to
pronounce that word.
Acetaminop see, acetaminophon.
Yeah, acetaminoph.
Hang on.
I've got this up specificallyif you can hear this.
Let's see it.
(03:21):
Acetaminophen.
Acetaminophen.
Acetaminophon.
Right.
Acetaminophen.
Um anyway, I may call it justparacetamol from here on out
because it's a lot easier for meto pronounce.
Um, interestingly enough,Donald Trump had troubles
pronouncing it as well.
Um, but anyway, so I'm going tolook very briefly at this claim
(03:42):
that paracetamol or panidol,tyanol, whatever you want to
call it, that there's a linkbetween using those medications,
those drugs, and thedevelopment of autism uh in the
unborn child.
So this is a pregnant motherwho, for example, may have a
fever, takes the Tylenol or thePanidol.
Um, what are the chances thatthat child may be exposed
(04:06):
theoretically to this drug andthen develop autism?
So I'm going to evaluate that.
I've had a little look at theresearch.
Um, I think I know roughlywhat's going on, so I'll pass
judgment on that at the end ofthe episode.
But first, let's talk about mymedication emergency, um, which
is two of my meds.
(04:26):
So, what I'm talking about arethe stimulants.
The stimulants, dexamphetamineand vivance.
If you've listened to this showlong enough, I'm sure you would
have known uh what meds I wasgoing to talk about without um
probably even pressing play.
If you saw the title MedicationEmergency and you've been
listening for a while, youprobably thought, here we go,
(04:47):
he's run out of his stimulantsagain, typical.
And I did, but it wasn't myfault.
So the problem is with thesemedications is that they're
highly restricted, tightlycontrolled, and very regulated
across the world, uh, andAustralia is no different.
So this includes, okay, so I'mtalking stimulant meds.
(05:08):
So that includes for me,dexamphetamine and vivance, or
Liz Dexamphetamine, the longacting version.
Um, but this same sort of, youknow, this event, this occasion
um also rings true often forthose who are prescribe Ritalin
or Concerta, methylphenidate,um, adderall, dexadrine, doesn't
(05:31):
matter.
Stimulant medications that areused for ADHD across the world
are tightly, tightly controlled.
So that means that I can't justgo get new scripts for these
medications whenever I need orfeel like I need to, or whenever
I want.
There is no flexibility reallyaround that at all.
You've got to do it in theright ways.
(05:53):
Okay.
So, for example, myantidepressants, chlamipramine.
Um, if I lose my script orsomething, I can just get a new
script for it from the GP.
Easy.
No worries at all.
Um, because it is, although itis restricted, it's it's not a
medication that is associatedwith any forms of you know,
abuse or addiction potentialdependence.
(06:14):
Well, there's dependency, butthat's a different story.
Um, but you know what I mean.
You don't have a whole stack ofclamipramine or metazopine or
you know, to get high.
You can't do it.
There's no such thing.
So the risk is nowhere near ashigh.
Whereas the stimulants, as weknow, you know, amphetamine, um,
for a lot of them,amphetamine-based, definitely
(06:34):
there is that abuse potential.
So that's why it's highlyrestricted across the world,
which is fair enough.
It's fair enough.
And it's a system that needs tobe in place, but unfortunately,
things can go wrong.
So um to get very quickly toget these medications to begin
with in Australia, traditionallyyou've had to see a
(06:55):
psychiatrist.
Um, now you can see your GP,and uh very soon in New South
Wales, your GP will be able toalso diagnose and then prescribe
without having to go see apsychiatrist or without having
to have a letter of authorityfrom a psychiatrist.
Um, I'll explain more aboutthat in a minute.
(07:16):
Um, but traditionally it's beenvery hard to get these
medications, these prescriptionsin the first place because you
had to see a psychiatrist.
Now, I can tell you right now,here in Newcastle, which is New
South Wales' second largest citybehind Sydney, um, there are no
psychiatrists that have theirbooks open.
It's just not a it hasn't beenfor ages.
Um, the demand far outweighssupply.
(07:38):
So people in Newcastle, such asmyself, have had to look to
Sydney to gain access to thesemedications.
Thank goodness for telehealthor being able to see your doctor
over your computer or over thephone, um, because that has made
access to psychiatry a loteasier for people.
Um, even if I don'tparticularly agree completely
(07:58):
with this idea of telehealth.
Um, you know, I I I don't likeit because I don't want to
digress too much, but I don't,but I don't know if you guys
agree, but if you've seen apsychologist or a psychiatrist,
um, I much prefer to see both inperson.
Um, because, you know, there'scommunication that comes from
(08:19):
nonverbal aspects, you know,like how you're presenting as
far as the clothes that you'rewearing, or personal hygiene, or
um, you know, um uh, you know,like rounded shoulders and and
body language, body language ortrying to think of, you know,
like and you know, eye contactbeing made, and because that can
(08:39):
be a sign of autism, forexample.
You know, like there's a lot ofthese non-verbal cues that I
think need to be looked atholistically to get a the
picture of the person correct.
And if you do things overtelehealth, I don't think you
can get that complete picture.
Um, but at the same time,seeing a psychiatrist over
telehealth is better than notseeing a psychiatrist at all.
(09:00):
Um, I wouldn't personally everdo um psychotherapy over the
phone or over the internetbecause I really think
psychologists need to see thewhole picture.
Psychiatrists maybe less so,but even, yeah, they sort of
need to as well.
But anyway, as I said, it'sbetter to see a psychiatrist via
telehealth and not seeing apsychiatrist at all.
So that's what I do.
(09:21):
I see psychiatrists from Sydneyover telehealth, um, and that's
how I get access to mymedications.
It's also difficult too, um,because there's a huge cost
involved.
Um, so um the options are whatI do, uh, you know, I had to get
another ADHD assessment becausedoctors don't like prescribing
(09:42):
these medications without doingassessments themselves.
So that initial assessment tobe to tell me what I already
knew, which was I had ADHD,$850.
And then subsequentappointments are $350.
So that's a lot of money, youknow?
And money is a big reason whypeople don't see psychiatrists,
um, which is hard because ADHDcan make working hard.
(10:05):
So, you know, if someone can'twork as of their ADHD, that they
can't afford to seepsychiatrists and they can't
afford to help fix their ADHD sothey can go to work, so they
can afford their psychiatrists,you get the picture.
Anyway, I'm thankfully ablejust to be able to see a
psychiatrist for my ADHD and getthose medications as I need.
(10:26):
Now, if you're on in New SouthWales, um, before the new rules
have started to come in whereGPs can um uh administer
medications from the get-go anddiagnose that EHD, not just
psychiatrists, buttraditionally, what I've had to
do is see psychiatrists to getmy scripts, very, very
expensive.
So, what you can do after 12months, if your prescriptions
(10:48):
are solid, are stable, umdosages are not going up or
down, your psychiatrist canwrite a letter of authority to
your GP, and then your GP isable to uh prescribe these
medications in those dosages, atthose dosages.
Um, and that's what's happenedto me most recently.
So, this was the first time,this has been the first time
(11:10):
I've had to um get my newprescriptions for the stimulants
from my GP.
I haven't done it before, so Iwasn't sure if it was gonna
work.
Um, so what I did was the rightthing.
Because usually, you know, thisis on me.
I don't do my appointments, Idon't get them in on time too
late to try and make anappointment to the doctor's
(11:30):
late.
I I run out and have a bit oftime without medications because
you can't get stimulants early.
You know, you can't go to thechemist and say, Oh, you know, I
need a week's supply becauseI've run short.
Some medications they will dothat.
They definitely will not dothat for Schedule 8s, like the
stimulants or or the painmedications, like endone and
oxycodone, all them.
(11:50):
No chance.
You need your scripts from yourdoctor.
So you've got to be on timewith these things, or else you
run the risk of having some timeforced upon you without your
meds, which is exactly what'shappened to me.
But this is the thing,everybody, ladies and gentlemen.
Again, I'm gonna say it again.
This wasn't my fault, allright?
This was not my fault.
(12:13):
Um, I'm laughing now because Igot the medications back.
Can't you tell?
That's why I'm doing thisepisode.
Um, um, but it's true, itwasn't my fault this time
because I had my appointmentbooked right at the end of the
six months, because there'ssix-month duration scripts, you
can't get any longer.
There's six months, that's therule.
So you've got to get yourdoctor's appointment in right at
(12:35):
the end of the six monthsbecause you can't have it too
early either, or else they'llthey'll say, no, you're not
allowed to get your script, it'stoo early.
So you've got to plan it reallywell, which is very difficult
for people often with ADHD.
It is for me, but this time Idid plan it right.
I had the GP appointmentbooked, I had the letter of
authority sent from mypsychiatrist to the GP.
(12:57):
I knew my doctors had been incontact.
I made sure of that.
So it was all sorted, ready togo, and then disaster struck in
the form of me getting a phonecall from my doctor's office
saying, unfortunately, somethinghas come up and your doctor has
had to take um some leave, andwe don't have another
(13:19):
appointment um for you foranother three weeks.
Would you like to take thatone?
And of course, I said yes, thatwas the soonest I could get in,
three weeks.
And I was like, oh my goodness,that's bad.
Now I didn't ask my doctor whathappened, you know.
Um, usually when the unexpectedleave comes up, it's not
usually a good thing, so there'sno blaming here.
(13:39):
I'm not blaming the G mydoctor, my GP or anything.
Um, and I didn't ask anyquestions because it's not my
place.
But what happened was I had towait an extra three weeks, and
that was not good because myscript ran out three weeks
before that, because I timed itto perfection, or so I thought.
But things can happen, see?
(14:00):
Things can happen.
I knew something was gonnahappen because I'm never this,
you know, on top of things.
And I I leading up to theappointment, you know, I kept
thinking something's gonnahappen here.
I've just got this feelingsomething's gonna happen because
this is all too easy, I've donethis too well.
This this doesn't happen toElliot, you know?
And usually a lot of thosethoughts have got no logic to
(14:21):
them, and you know, you just tryand dismiss them, you know,
flick them out of your headbecause it's just garbage.
I'm not attending to that.
But, you know, some of them getthrough, and then
unfortunately, this happened,and then all of a sudden, those
thoughts are like, see, told youso, told you something would
happen.
Anyway, what you can't do muchabout it, these things happen.
But what the result was was mewithout my stimulant meds for
(14:43):
two to three weeks there, andthat's why I've been missing
from the podcast for a littlebit, because I haven't been able
to focus on getting theseepisodes done, which has been
difficult because without thestimulants, you know, I'm very
anxious because I know that myability to do the things that I
need to do is severely hampered.
That is stressful.
So, me not doing the QAsessions episode, for example,
(15:07):
and me not being able tointerview people yet for the
intake interviews, you know,that, and there's other things
too, of course, but relating tothe podcast, the stress has just
been building and building andbuilding.
And when I'm anxious, myability to attend the things is
even worse.
So, not only was my you knowability to do the things I need
(15:29):
to do severely hampered by nothaving the stimulant medication
to hone my focus, unfortunately,the result was even worse
because then the anxiety and thestress that had kicked up
because I wasn't able to dothings, then made my ability to
attend even worse.
So everything went out thewindow.
So as a result, my car turnedinto a mess, my bedroom turned
(15:52):
into a mess.
You know, I was disorganizedwith other appointments that I
had.
I was not, as we know,producing podcast episodes like
I had told you guys I would.
Um, everything sort of fellapart and went to hell for a
little bit there.
Because that's because also theother point is that when you
stop these medications abruptly,there's these rebound effects,
(16:14):
and all of a sudden the negativeeffects of the disorder, ADHD,
that these stimulant stimulantmeds are looking at and
attending to themselves.
Um, there's the reboundeffects, and all of a sudden
those um symptoms and behaviorsand thoughts uh are amplified
because of the sudden loss ofthe medication that was, you
know, really the foundation ofyou know every day that I was
(16:38):
doing things.
So there's that rebound effect,and things actually get worse
than they should be, and it'sjust so so difficult.
It's very difficult to manage,you know.
Um, and the stimulants, notonly are they there for me as
far as you know, my executivefunctioning goes, but there is
an effect of the amphetamine onmy mood as well.
Um, so you know, my mooddropped big time because I was
(17:02):
very anxious, um, and my anxietyI knew was actually to a
certain extent valid because Iwasn't able to do the things
that I needed to do or felt likeI needed to do.
Um, and when you're not able todo the things that you want to
do and need to do, um, you don'tjust get stressed and anxious
about it.
You start getting prettydepressed about it as well.
(17:22):
So my mood um really flatlinedfor two to three weeks there.
Um it's a shame I don'tactually keep a mood chart
anymore.
I should, I definitely should.
It's one of those things thatyou know I know I should be
doing, but I'm not.
So unfortunately, I can'tactually post a photo, for
example, of what my mood chartlooks like on social media for
you guys to see.
(17:43):
But um I know that if I wasdoing it, there would be this
sort of flatline effect over thelast two to three weeks, and
that there is a directrelationship, as far as I'm
concerned, between that low moodand things like podcast episode
output.
So I did all the right things,I had my appointment booked, and
then all of a sudden theappointment vanished, and I had
(18:05):
to wait an extra two to threeweeks, and that has caused all
sorts of problems.
But thankfully, now I've got myscripts, I've got my
prescriptions for Vivants, I'vegot my prescription for
dexamphetamine, um, and it wasthrough my GP, which is great
because it's so much easier tosee a GP than a psychiatrist.
It's so much cheaper to see aGP than it is a psychiatrist.
(18:28):
So this is going to work well,this system now from here on in,
unless I need a dosage change.
But the new laws that arecoming into effect here in New
South Wales and across thestates and territories of
Australia, I'm not sure aboutthe rest of the world, but I'd
say, you know, Australia, wetend to follow, you know, what
Europe does.
So you guys might already beable to do this sort of stuff.
(18:49):
Um, but soon your generalpractitioner will be able to do
all the ADHD-related stuff.
Um, and that's great becausethat opens up access for people
because it's cheaper, it'seasier to get on the books.
Great stuff for people withADHD in New South Wales at
least.
Um, but so there you go.
Very frustrating, everybody.
(19:09):
Very frustrating.
I do apologize again for thefact that um, in particular, the
the QA sessions episodeshaven't started rolling out yet.
Um, I'll be getting onto themas a top priority.
Uh, and hopefully, as well, theintake interviews will take
off.
Um, and now I feel a lot morecomfortable doing those episodes
knowing that I've got themedications that I need, because
(19:30):
I don't want to do a garbagejob, you know, like the intake
interviews in particular, youknow, I'm here on the show very
quickly.
The idea is that I'm showcasingsomeone else's story.
You know, I don't mind as muchif I um, you know, muddle up my
own story, whatever it's justme.
But, you know, if I'm gonnashowcase someone else on the
(19:50):
show, I want to do the best jobI can.
And to do the best job, Ibelieve, and it's been
determined, that I need thesemedications.
Same with the QA sessions, youknow, these are your questions.
I want to do your questionsjustice.
Um, I don't want to do ahalf-assed job of any of these
episodes.
Um, so now that I've got themeds back, um, it's full steam
(20:11):
ahead.
Let's go.
All right, now before I do go,very quickly, I want to make a
comment on uh the determinationsand the conclusions that have
been drawn up uh in the US bythe President Donald Trump um uh
regarding the uh the possibleconnection relationship between
(20:33):
paracetamol or acetaminophen.
I'm getting good at that word,Tylenol Panadol, um, also known
as uh the connection potentiallybetween that drug and autism.
This is the story.
All right, let's see if I canput my science hat on here
because this is really aquestion that's more to do with
(20:55):
how these research articles, themethodologies that's behind the
research, that's more of whatthe focus is, to be honest, than
the actual outcomes of thesepapers.
Um so the older papers that Ibelieve in the US they seem to
be referencing mostly have showna link between a pregnant woman
(21:18):
taking these medications,panidol, tylenol, and then
giving birth to a child that hasdeveloped autism.
Okay, there's a there weresmall, significant but small
relationships found in earlierworks between the use of panidol
or tylenol and uh by the umpregnant mother and then giving
(21:41):
birth to an individual who hasdeveloped autistic spectrum
disorder.
Okay, small relationship there.
But what these papers didn't dowas account for all the
confounds.
So that's variables thatinfluence the dependent
variable.
So that dependent variable isthat the child is born with
autism or develops autism,that's the dependent variable.
(22:04):
The independent variable thathas been assessed by these
earlier papers is the use ofparacetamol, tyanol, panidol by
the mother uh during thepregnancy.
Okay, that's the independentvariable being looked at.
But there's other variablesthat haven't been controlled for
and accounted for.
So for example, um, what's thepanot the panidol or the
(22:26):
tylenol?
What why is that being used inthe first place?
Is it really a case that it'sthe panidol or tyanol that's
causing this um relationship,this link with autism, or is it
what it's controlling for, whichis things like fevers and
headaches and stuff like that?
So um that's the real question,and that's the question that I
(22:48):
ask because we know that, forexample, a fever is not a good
thing.
Like it is, in a sense, to youknow, get over infections and
viruses and all that sort ofstuff, but you know, having your
body temperature high for longperiods of time is not good and
it can cause problems with, youknow, proteins denaturing and
you know, all this sort ofstuff.
(23:08):
And we know that um an unbornchild during pregnancy, um, if
they're exposed to lots and lotsof high levels due to of fever,
um, because they're they'reimplicated in this as well.
So if the mother has fevers fora long time, that can cause
problems um in a few differentareas, not just autism or the
(23:30):
potential for the development ofautism.
But we know fevers for a longtime in a mother are not good
for the unborn baby.
We know this.
So is this really a question ofthe panodol that's being used
to control the fever or thetyanol?
Um, which is it?
Is it the introduction of themedication or is it what it's
actually trying to treat?
And it doesn't have anything todo with the medication, it's
(23:53):
actually the fever componentthat's the problem.
Um, that's the first question.
Another confound that has notbeen accounted for.
So, what else is panodol andtylenol used for?
Pain.
Now, what do we know aboutpeople with autism?
We have, me being one of them,we have, or we report on
(24:13):
average, higher levels of painthan somebody who doesn't have
autism.
Okay, so this might be a bitharder to sort of see, but the
link where I'm going with this.
So the mother, right?
Let's imagine this, the motherhas pain and is taking the
paracetamol and the um Tylenolfor pain.
(24:34):
Okay.
Um, right.
So is it the pain that'scausing the problem in the
mother with the child, orsupposed a problem, if you want
to call it that?
Or is it the panodol, themedication, the Tylenol again,
having a link to autism in thechild?
And this is where it gets alittle bit more complicated, but
more more recent researcherssuggest this, and this has been
(24:57):
put forward by quite a fewpeople, um, and I tend to agree
with this, is that remember, Isaid people with autism are more
likely to be in pain.
Mothers who are in pain takemore likely to take Tylenol,
panidol have children autistic.
Hang on.
People who have pain, highlevel autistic people report
(25:21):
high levels of pain.
Mothers who are reporting painhave the panidol or the tylenol.
What if the mothers who are inpain are in pain because they're
autistic?
And autistic people, as weknow, are more likely to be in
pain.
So the question then is, is themother autistic?
We need to look at thisresearch and these findings and
(25:42):
and ascertain what's going onthere, if there's a relationship
there.
And we know that there is,because there is a huge genetic
component to autism.
70 to 80 percent geneticcomponent to someone developing
autistic spectrum disorder.
So if the mothers have gotautism, they're more likely to
have children who have autism.
(26:02):
And mothers who are in pain whohave autism are more likely to
take things like Tylenol andPanidol for pain.
And then, as a result of thembeing in pain because they're
autistic, they have children whoare more likely to be autistic,
which is independent of themedication, of the drug.
It's got nothing to do in thiscase.
(26:23):
This is my conclusion of someof the new research I've looked
at.
It's got nothing to do with thepanodoles or the Tylenol, it's
got everything to do with thefact that in this cohort, the
mother is more likely to beautistic.
So, you know, duh in a way.
Um, what that means is thatyes, the older research has
(26:44):
shown a link between, and ithas, between high use levels and
long uses of panidol andparacetamol and tylenol and
acetaminephen.
Um, but the reasons for takingthe drug in the first place,
that is probably where theconnection to autism lies.
And that could be high levelsof fever of other sickness in
(27:07):
the mother, which can causeissues during pregnancy, not
just related to autism, or thebig one, which is that autistic
mothers tend to be um in painand therefore take these
medications and tend to havechildren who are autistic
because of that huge geneticlink.
Um, I just want to say tooquickly, there was another um,
(27:28):
this is a real good one, anotherresearch paper I found.
This one's been reported quitea bit.
Um, it's from Sweden.
Um, those Scandinaviancountries are great when it
comes to this sort of research.
Um, so what they did, they hadnow I've only briefly read it,
but essentially um the Swedishresearchers followed 2.8 million
(27:49):
children um and determinedwhether they would develop
autism.
Uh so we so it was siblings,right?
Siblings.
So they looked at pairings.
So one sibling, say thedaughter, um during pregnancy
was exposed to paracetamol oracetaminophen, uh, and then the
sister or brother uh was notexposed to these medications,
(28:14):
okay?
So there were all these pairsthat they looked at sister,
brother, brother, brother,brother, sister, whatever, you
know, different combinations.
But the what's really importantis one of the siblings, um,
could be the oldest, could bethe youngest, one of the
siblings was exposed toparacetamol or acetaminophen,
and the other sibling was notexposed during pregnancy.
(28:35):
And this is a good, good umresearch paper because it's
looking at siblings.
Um, and this is importantbecause siblings share a lot of
genetic material.
So um there's the genetic linkbetween two.
So that controls for thatgenetic link.
It's controlled for becausewe're looking at siblings who
have the genetic link.
(28:56):
Um, so that variable thatconfound, well, it's not
confound because we'recontrolling for it.
So that variable is accountedfor.
Um, the only thing that'sthat's now been looked at, the
independent variable that's beenfocused on, is the paracetamol
acetaminophen tylenol panidoluse.
And what they found was therewas no no um statistical
(29:20):
significance of any relationshipbetween the paracetamol group
and the non-paracetamol group,the rates of autism.
It didn't make an effect.
There was no effect, it didn'tmatter, it wasn't an issue.
So there you go.
So that is the look at theresearch that I've found, at
(29:40):
least, and a lot of it's beingreported in the media.
It should be noted as well, um,just quickly, that those
earlier research papers that didfind that link between the
medication and autism, uh, thosethat had the supposed link were
taking massive amounts of themedication.
Medication, which is notrecommended by the makers of
(30:03):
Tylenol or Panidol at all.
So even in those sets ofresults, the conditions that the
pregnant mother was undercaused, you know, the amounts of
the medications to be used tobe way above the max recommended
dosages.
So that suggests, well, one,there why anything in excess is
(30:24):
not a good thing for anybody,especially not a pre an unborn
child or a pregnant mother.
But the reasons why they mighthave been having so much of the
painkiller could have beenbecause their fevers were so bad
and lasted for so long.
And again, you've got towonder, is it the fever that's
causing the issue here?
So there you go.
(30:45):
I don't know if that clearsthings up at all.
Um, but that's my take onthese, you know, these massive
claims that panodol or tyanolcan cause autism.
Like that's you know, autisticrates have definitely gone up.
Part of it is because um thedefinition of you know autistic
spectrum disorder is so broadnow, whereas it never used to
(31:08):
be.
Um we're a lot more aware ofautism and what it is and what
had and sorry, what it is andhow it um you know manifests
itself in people and in in theenvironment.
You know, we know what to lookfor now, whereas we didn't
before.
Um I think that accounts for alot of the uptake or the uptick
(31:28):
of people diagnosed with autism.
Um, like for example, when Iwas a kid, I was never told I
was I had Asperger's or autism.
Um that actually only came umalong when I was, you know,
later in life, when I was whenwas I?
I was 28, I think it was, whenI was finally diagnosed with
autistic spectrum disorder.
Um, so that in itself is a bitof an indicator that earlier on
(31:49):
um that these things weren'treally picked up on.
Um it's taken until morerecently for mental health
professionals to be able tounderstand autism a lot better
and then have the confidence andthe ability uh to be able to
diagnose.
Um so I guess my example is abit of a um is an example of of
that.
So I think that's a big part ofit.
(32:09):
I also think there's a lot ofum there is potential for things
like I don't know, likeplastics in the water and stuff.
We don't know what that'scausing and what that's doing,
but we know it's really, reallynot good for anybody, and it's a
big problem.
So that may be also part ofthis story.
Um, but again, that's verygenetic.
(32:29):
So, you know, there are morepeople being diagnosed, but then
if you go back and look attheir parents, you would find
another massive cohort thatmaybe haven't been diagnosed as
of yet, um, or maybe they are,and that's why the numbers are
going up.
Um, because they now areshowing signs as well because we
know what we're looking at.
It's like, oh, the parents wereautistic the whole time, you
know.
Like Johnny's dad, who had themodel train set, you know, and
(32:53):
and sits at train platformswatching trains go by all day,
which I'm not judging by theway, because I do that too.
Anyway, I don't have the modelset anymore, but when I was a
kid, I did all the signs werethere for me.
Um, but yeah, so more peoplehave been diagnosed with it.
It's not necessarily becausemore people have it than they
used to, it's because we aremore aware now that people have
(33:14):
it and we're able to interveneand do things about it, you
know, all that sort of stuff.
So that's the story there.
So my apologies, everybody, forbeing a bit quiet when it comes
to podcast output lately.
I promise the QA sessions arecoming, the intake interviews
are coming.
Um, for those who want to beinterviewed on the potty, um,
(33:35):
let me know.
I've sent some emails around topeople now, and we're we're
getting these episodes up tospeed, and we're gonna come up
with something pretty cool andthen produce these episodes and
put them here on the show, andit's gonna really showcase so
many people's unbelievablestories of resilience and
triumph, despite it all.
You know, like you think mystory is interesting, it's
(33:55):
nothing compared to some of thepeople that will be coming on
here, let me tell you.
Anyway, that's it for now.
If you're enjoying the show,feel free to like, subscribe,
give the show a great rating,and you can share this show
around with your mates,especially those who maybe um
are suffering from the effectsof mental ill health, in
particular those that maybethink that they're very alone on
(34:17):
their journey.
Um, feel free to show them thispodcast because I'd like to
think that you know this showdoes um, you know, allow people
to see and understand that youknow mental ill health is a
problem for a lot of us, butwe're not going through this
alone.
We are in this together, let'shelp each other out, and maybe
(34:37):
passing this show around couldbe part of that.
I don't know.
I don't know.
You tell me.
All right, thank you everybodyfor listening.
I do appreciate it.
As always, you can follow me onInstagram as well at
elliott.t.waters.
Amazing content, and you canfollow the show on Facebook,
which I'm now starting to rampup the content on there as well
by searching for thedysregulated podcast.
(34:59):
All right, I'm starting to notmake sense, so I better go.
Thank you, everybody.
Have a good one, and I'll seeyou next time here on the
dysregulated podcast.
G'day everybody, my name is Elliot Waters, and
you're listening to the DisRegulator Podcast.
As always, thank you for tuningin.
Alright, today's episode is allabout medication emergency.
I have had some problems havingaccess and being able to use
two of my medications, two of mymeds that I really, really need
(00:31):
to help be able to get throughthe things I need to do
throughout the day.
So that's a little hint as towhat I'm talking about.
Now, this is a story.
If you get a mood chart ofmine, I've said this a lot on
the podcast, maybe not recently,but it still rings true today.
If you get a mood chart of mineand then overlay podcast
(00:52):
episode output, you know, achart of that, overlay that, uh,
you'll see there's a directrelationship, it appears,
between my mood being good andlots of episodes being produced,
and when I'm in a real lowmood, not many episodes are
getting produced at all.
Um, so recently my mood hasdropped big time because of my
(01:13):
inability to use two of myprescribed medications and my
ability to hone my focus on thethings I need to be attending to
and to follow through with thethings that I need to do.
My ability to do that has beenseverely hindered as well
because these two medicationshaven't been available to me.
(01:34):
So there's a little hint as towhat I'm talking about.
Um, some of you will be going,hey, I get that too, especially
of those of you with ADHD.
This may sound very familiar,this story.
Um, but I want to make it clearthis time though, it wasn't my
fault.
So in the past, I'll admit I'vegone above and beyond maybe my
(01:55):
prescribed dosages in an effortto be able to get more things
done during the day.
Okay.
I'm not saying it's the rightthing to do, but at the same
time, that's why I've done it.
Uh, not because of any sort of,you know, I want to feel high,
I want to feel euphoric andamazing.
It's got nothing to do withthat at all.
Um, it is because there aretimes my inner critic, often and
(02:16):
the workaholic within, say I'veachieved nowhere near enough
during the day to be able torelax.
So therefore, I have thispressure to achieve more.
And to do that, I'll dowhatever it takes, and that
includes going above myprescriptions every now and
then.
So sometimes at the end ofthose prescriptions, especially
for these two medications inparticular, I find myself a
(02:38):
little bit short, and there is aperiod of time where I have to
go without the medications untilI get my new scripts.
But as I said, this time itwasn't my fault, and we're going
to explain all of that in aminute.
But before I do, I just want tosay as well that at the end of
this episode, seeing as thoughwe're talking about medications
and drugs, I'm going to passjudgment very quickly over the
(03:01):
comments made by US PresidentDonald Trump regarding the use
of paracetamol or acetaminophon,as it's called in the US.
And let me tell you, it took mea long time to be able to
pronounce that word.
Acetaminop see, acetaminophon.
Yeah, acetaminoph.
Hang on.
I've got this up specificallyif you can hear this.
Let's see it.
(03:21):
Acetaminophen.
Acetaminophen.
Acetaminophon.
Right.
Acetaminophen.
Um anyway, I may call it justparacetamol from here on out
because it's a lot easier for meto pronounce.
Um, interestingly enough,Donald Trump had troubles
pronouncing it as well.
Um, but anyway, so I'm going tolook very briefly at this claim
(03:42):
that paracetamol or panidol,tyanol, whatever you want to
call it, that there's a linkbetween using those medications,
those drugs, and thedevelopment of autism uh in the
unborn child.
So this is a pregnant motherwho, for example, may have a
fever, takes the Tylenol or thePanidol.
Um, what are the chances thatthat child may be exposed
(04:06):
theoretically to this drug andthen develop autism?
So I'm going to evaluate that.
I've had a little look at theresearch.
Um, I think I know roughlywhat's going on, so I'll pass
judgment on that at the end ofthe episode.
But first, let's talk about mymedication emergency, um, which
is two of my meds.
(04:26):
So, what I'm talking about arethe stimulants.
The stimulants, dexamphetamineand vivance.
If you've listened to this showlong enough, I'm sure you would
have known uh what meds I wasgoing to talk about without um
probably even pressing play.
If you saw the title MedicationEmergency and you've been
listening for a while, youprobably thought, here we go,
(04:47):
he's run out of his stimulantsagain, typical.
And I did, but it wasn't myfault.
So the problem is with thesemedications is that they're
highly restricted, tightlycontrolled, and very regulated
across the world, uh, andAustralia is no different.
So this includes, okay, so I'mtalking stimulant meds.
(05:08):
So that includes for me,dexamphetamine and vivance, or
Liz Dexamphetamine, the longacting version.
Um, but this same sort of, youknow, this event, this occasion
um also rings true often forthose who are prescribe Ritalin
or Concerta, methylphenidate,um, adderall, dexadrine, doesn't
(05:31):
matter.
Stimulant medications that areused for ADHD across the world
are tightly, tightly controlled.
So that means that I can't justgo get new scripts for these
medications whenever I need orfeel like I need to, or whenever
I want.
There is no flexibility reallyaround that at all.
You've got to do it in theright ways.
(05:53):
Okay.
So, for example, myantidepressants, chlamipramine.
Um, if I lose my script orsomething, I can just get a new
script for it from the GP.
Easy.
No worries at all.
Um, because it is, although itis restricted, it's it's not a
medication that is associatedwith any forms of you know,
abuse or addiction potentialdependence.
(06:14):
Well, there's dependency, butthat's a different story.
Um, but you know what I mean.
You don't have a whole stack ofclamipramine or metazopine or
you know, to get high.
You can't do it.
There's no such thing.
So the risk is nowhere near ashigh.
Whereas the stimulants, as weknow, you know, amphetamine, um,
for a lot of them,amphetamine-based, definitely
(06:34):
there is that abuse potential.
So that's why it's highlyrestricted across the world,
which is fair enough.
It's fair enough.
And it's a system that needs tobe in place, but unfortunately,
things can go wrong.
So um to get very quickly toget these medications to begin
with in Australia, traditionallyyou've had to see a
(06:55):
psychiatrist.
Um, now you can see your GP,and uh very soon in New South
Wales, your GP will be able toalso diagnose and then prescribe
without having to go see apsychiatrist or without having
to have a letter of authorityfrom a psychiatrist.
Um, I'll explain more aboutthat in a minute.
(07:16):
Um, but traditionally it's beenvery hard to get these
medications, these prescriptionsin the first place because you
had to see a psychiatrist.
Now, I can tell you right now,here in Newcastle, which is New
South Wales' second largest citybehind Sydney, um, there are no
psychiatrists that have theirbooks open.
It's just not a it hasn't beenfor ages.
Um, the demand far outweighssupply.
(07:38):
So people in Newcastle, such asmyself, have had to look to
Sydney to gain access to thesemedications.
Thank goodness for telehealthor being able to see your doctor
over your computer or over thephone, um, because that has made
access to psychiatry a loteasier for people.
Um, even if I don'tparticularly agree completely
(07:58):
with this idea of telehealth.
Um, you know, I I I don't likeit because I don't want to
digress too much, but I don't,but I don't know if you guys
agree, but if you've seen apsychologist or a psychiatrist,
um, I much prefer to see both inperson.
Um, because, you know, there'scommunication that comes from
(08:19):
nonverbal aspects, you know,like how you're presenting as
far as the clothes that you'rewearing, or personal hygiene, or
um, you know, um uh, you know,like rounded shoulders and and
body language, body language ortrying to think of, you know,
like and you know, eye contactbeing made, and because that can
(08:39):
be a sign of autism, forexample.
You know, like there's a lot ofthese non-verbal cues that I
think need to be looked atholistically to get a the
picture of the person correct.
And if you do things overtelehealth, I don't think you
can get that complete picture.
Um, but at the same time,seeing a psychiatrist over
telehealth is better than notseeing a psychiatrist at all.
(09:00):
Um, I wouldn't personally everdo um psychotherapy over the
phone or over the internetbecause I really think
psychologists need to see thewhole picture.
Psychiatrists maybe less so,but even, yeah, they sort of
need to as well.
But anyway, as I said, it'sbetter to see a psychiatrist via
telehealth and not seeing apsychiatrist at all.
So that's what I do.
(09:21):
I see psychiatrists from Sydneyover telehealth, um, and that's
how I get access to mymedications.
It's also difficult too, um,because there's a huge cost
involved.
Um, so um the options are whatI do, uh, you know, I had to get
another ADHD assessment becausedoctors don't like prescribing
(09:42):
these medications without doingassessments themselves.
So that initial assessment tobe to tell me what I already
knew, which was I had ADHD,$850.
And then subsequentappointments are $350.
So that's a lot of money, youknow?
And money is a big reason whypeople don't see psychiatrists,
um, which is hard because ADHDcan make working hard.
(10:05):
So, you know, if someone can'twork as of their ADHD, that they
can't afford to seepsychiatrists and they can't
afford to help fix their ADHD sothey can go to work, so they
can afford their psychiatrists,you get the picture.
Anyway, I'm thankfully ablejust to be able to see a
psychiatrist for my ADHD and getthose medications as I need.
(10:26):
Now, if you're on in New SouthWales, um, before the new rules
have started to come in whereGPs can um uh administer
medications from the get-go anddiagnose that EHD, not just
psychiatrists, buttraditionally, what I've had to
do is see psychiatrists to getmy scripts, very, very
expensive.
So, what you can do after 12months, if your prescriptions
(10:48):
are solid, are stable, umdosages are not going up or
down, your psychiatrist canwrite a letter of authority to
your GP, and then your GP isable to uh prescribe these
medications in those dosages, atthose dosages.
Um, and that's what's happenedto me most recently.
So, this was the first time,this has been the first time
(11:10):
I've had to um get my newprescriptions for the stimulants
from my GP.
I haven't done it before, so Iwasn't sure if it was gonna
work.
Um, so what I did was the rightthing.
Because usually, you know, thisis on me.
I don't do my appointments, Idon't get them in on time too
late to try and make anappointment to the doctor's
(11:30):
late.
I I run out and have a bit oftime without medications because
you can't get stimulants early.
You know, you can't go to thechemist and say, Oh, you know, I
need a week's supply becauseI've run short.
Some medications they will dothat.
They definitely will not dothat for Schedule 8s, like the
stimulants or or the painmedications, like endone and
oxycodone, all them.
(11:50):
No chance.
You need your scripts from yourdoctor.
So you've got to be on timewith these things, or else you
run the risk of having some timeforced upon you without your
meds, which is exactly what'shappened to me.
But this is the thing,everybody, ladies and gentlemen.
Again, I'm gonna say it again.
This wasn't my fault, allright?
This was not my fault.
(12:13):
Um, I'm laughing now because Igot the medications back.
Can't you tell?
That's why I'm doing thisepisode.
Um, um, but it's true, itwasn't my fault this time
because I had my appointmentbooked right at the end of the
six months, because there'ssix-month duration scripts, you
can't get any longer.
There's six months, that's therule.
So you've got to get yourdoctor's appointment in right at
(12:35):
the end of the six monthsbecause you can't have it too
early either, or else they'llthey'll say, no, you're not
allowed to get your script, it'stoo early.
So you've got to plan it reallywell, which is very difficult
for people often with ADHD.
It is for me, but this time Idid plan it right.
I had the GP appointmentbooked, I had the letter of
authority sent from mypsychiatrist to the GP.
(12:57):
I knew my doctors had been incontact.
I made sure of that.
So it was all sorted, ready togo, and then disaster struck in
the form of me getting a phonecall from my doctor's office
saying, unfortunately, somethinghas come up and your doctor has
had to take um some leave, andwe don't have another
(13:19):
appointment um for you foranother three weeks.
Would you like to take thatone?
And of course, I said yes, thatwas the soonest I could get in,
three weeks.
And I was like, oh my goodness,that's bad.
Now I didn't ask my doctor whathappened, you know.
Um, usually when the unexpectedleave comes up, it's not
usually a good thing, so there'sno blaming here.
(13:39):
I'm not blaming the G mydoctor, my GP or anything.
Um, and I didn't ask anyquestions because it's not my
place.
But what happened was I had towait an extra three weeks, and
that was not good because myscript ran out three weeks
before that, because I timed itto perfection, or so I thought.
But things can happen, see?
(14:00):
Things can happen.
I knew something was gonnahappen because I'm never this,
you know, on top of things.
And I I leading up to theappointment, you know, I kept
thinking something's gonnahappen here.
I've just got this feelingsomething's gonna happen because
this is all too easy, I've donethis too well.
This this doesn't happen toElliot, you know?
And usually a lot of thosethoughts have got no logic to
(14:21):
them, and you know, you just tryand dismiss them, you know,
flick them out of your headbecause it's just garbage.
I'm not attending to that.
But, you know, some of them getthrough, and then
unfortunately, this happened,and then all of a sudden, those
thoughts are like, see, told youso, told you something would
happen.
Anyway, what you can't do muchabout it, these things happen.
But what the result was was mewithout my stimulant meds for
(14:43):
two to three weeks there, andthat's why I've been missing
from the podcast for a littlebit, because I haven't been able
to focus on getting theseepisodes done, which has been
difficult because without thestimulants, you know, I'm very
anxious because I know that myability to do the things that I
need to do is severely hampered.
That is stressful.
So, me not doing the QAsessions episode, for example,
(15:07):
and me not being able tointerview people yet for the
intake interviews, you know,that, and there's other things
too, of course, but relating tothe podcast, the stress has just
been building and building andbuilding.
And when I'm anxious, myability to attend the things is
even worse.
So, not only was my you knowability to do the things I need
(15:29):
to do severely hampered by nothaving the stimulant medication
to hone my focus, unfortunately,the result was even worse
because then the anxiety and thestress that had kicked up
because I wasn't able to dothings, then made my ability to
attend even worse.
So everything went out thewindow.
So as a result, my car turnedinto a mess, my bedroom turned
(15:52):
into a mess.
You know, I was disorganizedwith other appointments that I
had.
I was not, as we know,producing podcast episodes like
I had told you guys I would.
Um, everything sort of fellapart and went to hell for a
little bit there.
Because that's because also theother point is that when you
stop these medications abruptly,there's these rebound effects,
(16:14):
and all of a sudden the negativeeffects of the disorder, ADHD,
that these stimulant stimulantmeds are looking at and
attending to themselves.
Um, there's the reboundeffects, and all of a sudden
those um symptoms and behaviorsand thoughts uh are amplified
because of the sudden loss ofthe medication that was, you
know, really the foundation ofyou know every day that I was
(16:38):
doing things.
So there's that rebound effect,and things actually get worse
than they should be, and it'sjust so so difficult.
It's very difficult to manage,you know.
Um, and the stimulants, notonly are they there for me as
far as you know, my executivefunctioning goes, but there is
an effect of the amphetamine onmy mood as well.
Um, so you know, my mooddropped big time because I was
(17:02):
very anxious, um, and my anxietyI knew was actually to a
certain extent valid because Iwasn't able to do the things
that I needed to do or felt likeI needed to do.
Um, and when you're not able todo the things that you want to
do and need to do, um, you don'tjust get stressed and anxious
about it.
You start getting prettydepressed about it as well.
(17:22):
So my mood um really flatlinedfor two to three weeks there.
Um it's a shame I don'tactually keep a mood chart
anymore.
I should, I definitely should.
It's one of those things thatyou know I know I should be
doing, but I'm not.
So unfortunately, I can'tactually post a photo, for
example, of what my mood chartlooks like on social media for
you guys to see.
(17:43):
But um I know that if I wasdoing it, there would be this
sort of flatline effect over thelast two to three weeks, and
that there is a directrelationship, as far as I'm
concerned, between that low moodand things like podcast episode
output.
So I did all the right things,I had my appointment booked, and
then all of a sudden theappointment vanished, and I had
(18:05):
to wait an extra two to threeweeks, and that has caused all
sorts of problems.
But thankfully, now I've got myscripts, I've got my
prescriptions for Vivants, I'vegot my prescription for
dexamphetamine, um, and it wasthrough my GP, which is great
because it's so much easier tosee a GP than a psychiatrist.
It's so much cheaper to see aGP than it is a psychiatrist.
(18:28):
So this is going to work well,this system now from here on in,
unless I need a dosage change.
But the new laws that arecoming into effect here in New
South Wales and across thestates and territories of
Australia, I'm not sure aboutthe rest of the world, but I'd
say, you know, Australia, wetend to follow, you know, what
Europe does.
So you guys might already beable to do this sort of stuff.
(18:49):
Um, but soon your generalpractitioner will be able to do
all the ADHD-related stuff.
Um, and that's great becausethat opens up access for people
because it's cheaper, it'seasier to get on the books.
Great stuff for people withADHD in New South Wales at
least.
Um, but so there you go.
Very frustrating, everybody.
(19:09):
Very frustrating.
I do apologize again for thefact that um, in particular, the
the QA sessions episodeshaven't started rolling out yet.
Um, I'll be getting onto themas a top priority.
Uh, and hopefully, as well, theintake interviews will take
off.
Um, and now I feel a lot morecomfortable doing those episodes
knowing that I've got themedications that I need, because
(19:30):
I don't want to do a garbagejob, you know, like the intake
interviews in particular, youknow, I'm here on the show very
quickly.
The idea is that I'm showcasingsomeone else's story.
You know, I don't mind as muchif I um, you know, muddle up my
own story, whatever it's justme.
But, you know, if I'm gonnashowcase someone else on the
(19:50):
show, I want to do the best jobI can.
And to do the best job, Ibelieve, and it's been
determined, that I need thesemedications.
Same with the QA sessions, youknow, these are your questions.
I want to do your questionsjustice.
Um, I don't want to do ahalf-assed job of any of these
episodes.
Um, so now that I've got themeds back, um, it's full steam
(20:11):
ahead.
Let's go.
All right, now before I do go,very quickly, I want to make a
comment on uh the determinationsand the conclusions that have
been drawn up uh in the US bythe President Donald Trump um uh
regarding the uh the possibleconnection relationship between
(20:33):
paracetamol or acetaminophen.
I'm getting good at that word,Tylenol Panadol, um, also known
as uh the connection potentiallybetween that drug and autism.
This is the story.
All right, let's see if I canput my science hat on here
because this is really aquestion that's more to do with
(20:55):
how these research articles, themethodologies that's behind the
research, that's more of whatthe focus is, to be honest, than
the actual outcomes of thesepapers.
Um so the older papers that Ibelieve in the US they seem to
be referencing mostly have showna link between a pregnant woman
(21:18):
taking these medications,panidol, tylenol, and then
giving birth to a child that hasdeveloped autism.
Okay, there's a there weresmall, significant but small
relationships found in earlierworks between the use of panidol
or tylenol and uh by the umpregnant mother and then giving
(21:41):
birth to an individual who hasdeveloped autistic spectrum
disorder.
Okay, small relationship there.
But what these papers didn't dowas account for all the
confounds.
So that's variables thatinfluence the dependent
variable.
So that dependent variable isthat the child is born with
autism or develops autism,that's the dependent variable.
(22:04):
The independent variable thathas been assessed by these
earlier papers is the use ofparacetamol, tyanol, panidol by
the mother uh during thepregnancy.
Okay, that's the independentvariable being looked at.
But there's other variablesthat haven't been controlled for
and accounted for.
So for example, um, what's thepanot the panidol or the
(22:26):
tylenol?
What why is that being used inthe first place?
Is it really a case that it'sthe panidol or tyanol that's
causing this um relationship,this link with autism, or is it
what it's controlling for, whichis things like fevers and
headaches and stuff like that?
So um that's the real question,and that's the question that I
(22:48):
ask because we know that, forexample, a fever is not a good
thing.
Like it is, in a sense, to youknow, get over infections and
viruses and all that sort ofstuff, but you know, having your
body temperature high for longperiods of time is not good and
it can cause problems with, youknow, proteins denaturing and
you know, all this sort ofstuff.
(23:08):
And we know that um an unbornchild during pregnancy, um, if
they're exposed to lots and lotsof high levels due to of fever,
um, because they're they'reimplicated in this as well.
So if the mother has fevers fora long time, that can cause
problems um in a few differentareas, not just autism or the
(23:30):
potential for the development ofautism.
But we know fevers for a longtime in a mother are not good
for the unborn baby.
We know this.
So is this really a question ofthe panodol that's being used
to control the fever or thetyanol?
Um, which is it?
Is it the introduction of themedication or is it what it's
actually trying to treat?
And it doesn't have anything todo with the medication, it's
(23:53):
actually the fever componentthat's the problem.
Um, that's the first question.
Another confound that has notbeen accounted for.
So, what else is panodol andtylenol used for?
Pain.
Now, what do we know aboutpeople with autism?
We have, me being one of them,we have, or we report on
(24:13):
average, higher levels of painthan somebody who doesn't have
autism.
Okay, so this might be a bitharder to sort of see, but the
link where I'm going with this.
So the mother, right?
Let's imagine this, the motherhas pain and is taking the
paracetamol and the um Tylenolfor pain.
(24:34):
Okay.
Um, right.
So is it the pain that'scausing the problem in the
mother with the child, orsupposed a problem, if you want
to call it that?
Or is it the panodol, themedication, the Tylenol again,
having a link to autism in thechild?
And this is where it gets alittle bit more complicated, but
more more recent researcherssuggest this, and this has been
(24:57):
put forward by quite a fewpeople, um, and I tend to agree
with this, is that remember, Isaid people with autism are more
likely to be in pain.
Mothers who are in pain takemore likely to take Tylenol,
panidol have children autistic.
Hang on.
People who have pain, highlevel autistic people report
(25:21):
high levels of pain.
Mothers who are reporting painhave the panidol or the tylenol.
What if the mothers who are inpain are in pain because they're
autistic?
And autistic people, as weknow, are more likely to be in
pain.
So the question then is, is themother autistic?
We need to look at thisresearch and these findings and
(25:42):
and ascertain what's going onthere, if there's a relationship
there.
And we know that there is,because there is a huge genetic
component to autism.
70 to 80 percent geneticcomponent to someone developing
autistic spectrum disorder.
So if the mothers have gotautism, they're more likely to
have children who have autism.
(26:02):
And mothers who are in pain whohave autism are more likely to
take things like Tylenol andPanidol for pain.
And then, as a result of thembeing in pain because they're
autistic, they have children whoare more likely to be autistic,
which is independent of themedication, of the drug.
It's got nothing to do in thiscase.
(26:23):
This is my conclusion of someof the new research I've looked
at.
It's got nothing to do with thepanodoles or the Tylenol, it's
got everything to do with thefact that in this cohort, the
mother is more likely to beautistic.
So, you know, duh in a way.
Um, what that means is thatyes, the older research has
(26:44):
shown a link between, and ithas, between high use levels and
long uses of panidol andparacetamol and tylenol and
acetaminephen.
Um, but the reasons for takingthe drug in the first place,
that is probably where theconnection to autism lies.
And that could be high levelsof fever of other sickness in
(27:07):
the mother, which can causeissues during pregnancy, not
just related to autism, or thebig one, which is that autistic
mothers tend to be um in painand therefore take these
medications and tend to havechildren who are autistic
because of that huge geneticlink.
Um, I just want to say tooquickly, there was another um,
(27:28):
this is a real good one, anotherresearch paper I found.
This one's been reported quitea bit.
Um, it's from Sweden.
Um, those Scandinaviancountries are great when it
comes to this sort of research.
Um, so what they did, they hadnow I've only briefly read it,
but essentially um the Swedishresearchers followed 2.8 million
(27:49):
children um and determinedwhether they would develop
autism.
Uh so we so it was siblings,right?
Siblings.
So they looked at pairings.
So one sibling, say thedaughter, um during pregnancy
was exposed to paracetamol oracetaminophen, uh, and then the
sister or brother uh was notexposed to these medications,
(28:14):
okay?
So there were all these pairsthat they looked at sister,
brother, brother, brother,brother, sister, whatever, you
know, different combinations.
But the what's really importantis one of the siblings, um,
could be the oldest, could bethe youngest, one of the
siblings was exposed toparacetamol or acetaminophen,
and the other sibling was notexposed during pregnancy.
(28:35):
And this is a good, good umresearch paper because it's
looking at siblings.
Um, and this is importantbecause siblings share a lot of
genetic material.
So um there's the genetic linkbetween two.
So that controls for thatgenetic link.
It's controlled for becausewe're looking at siblings who
have the genetic link.
(28:56):
Um, so that variable thatconfound, well, it's not
confound because we'recontrolling for it.
So that variable is accountedfor.
Um, the only thing that'sthat's now been looked at, the
independent variable that's beenfocused on, is the paracetamol
acetaminophen tylenol panidoluse.
And what they found was therewas no no um statistical
(29:20):
significance of any relationshipbetween the paracetamol group
and the non-paracetamol group,the rates of autism.
It didn't make an effect.
There was no effect, it didn'tmatter, it wasn't an issue.
So there you go.
So that is the look at theresearch that I've found, at
(29:40):
least, and a lot of it's beingreported in the media.
It should be noted as well, um,just quickly, that those
earlier research papers that didfind that link between the
medication and autism, uh, thosethat had the supposed link were
taking massive amounts of themedication.
Medication, which is notrecommended by the makers of
(30:03):
Tylenol or Panidol at all.
So even in those sets ofresults, the conditions that the
pregnant mother was undercaused, you know, the amounts of
the medications to be used tobe way above the max recommended
dosages.
So that suggests, well, one,there why anything in excess is
(30:24):
not a good thing for anybody,especially not a pre an unborn
child or a pregnant mother.
But the reasons why they mighthave been having so much of the
painkiller could have beenbecause their fevers were so bad
and lasted for so long.
And again, you've got towonder, is it the fever that's
causing the issue here?
So there you go.
(30:45):
I don't know if that clearsthings up at all.
Um, but that's my take onthese, you know, these massive
claims that panodol or tyanolcan cause autism.
Like that's you know, autisticrates have definitely gone up.
Part of it is because um thedefinition of you know autistic
spectrum disorder is so broadnow, whereas it never used to
(31:08):
be.
Um we're a lot more aware ofautism and what it is and what
had and sorry, what it is andhow it um you know manifests
itself in people and in in theenvironment.
You know, we know what to lookfor now, whereas we didn't
before.
Um I think that accounts for alot of the uptake or the uptick
(31:28):
of people diagnosed with autism.
Um, like for example, when Iwas a kid, I was never told I
was I had Asperger's or autism.
Um that actually only came umalong when I was, you know,
later in life, when I was whenwas I?
I was 28, I think it was, whenI was finally diagnosed with
autistic spectrum disorder.
Um, so that in itself is a bitof an indicator that earlier on
(31:49):
um that these things weren'treally picked up on.
Um it's taken until morerecently for mental health
professionals to be able tounderstand autism a lot better
and then have the confidence andthe ability uh to be able to
diagnose.
Um so I guess my example is abit of a um is an example of of
that.
So I think that's a big part ofit.
(32:09):
I also think there's a lot ofum there is potential for things
like I don't know, likeplastics in the water and stuff.
We don't know what that'scausing and what that's doing,
but we know it's really, reallynot good for anybody, and it's a
big problem.
So that may be also part ofthis story.
Um, but again, that's verygenetic.
(32:29):
So, you know, there are morepeople being diagnosed, but then
if you go back and look attheir parents, you would find
another massive cohort thatmaybe haven't been diagnosed as
of yet, um, or maybe they are,and that's why the numbers are
going up.
Um, because they now areshowing signs as well because we
know what we're looking at.
It's like, oh, the parents wereautistic the whole time, you
know.
Like Johnny's dad, who had themodel train set, you know, and
(32:53):
and sits at train platformswatching trains go by all day,
which I'm not judging by theway, because I do that too.
Anyway, I don't have the modelset anymore, but when I was a
kid, I did all the signs werethere for me.
Um, but yeah, so more peoplehave been diagnosed with it.
It's not necessarily becausemore people have it than they
used to, it's because we aremore aware now that people have
(33:14):
it and we're able to interveneand do things about it, you
know, all that sort of stuff.
So that's the story there.
So my apologies, everybody, forbeing a bit quiet when it comes
to podcast output lately.
I promise the QA sessions arecoming, the intake interviews
are coming.
Um, for those who want to beinterviewed on the potty, um,
(33:35):
let me know.
I've sent some emails around topeople now, and we're we're
getting these episodes up tospeed, and we're gonna come up
with something pretty cool andthen produce these episodes and
put them here on the show, andit's gonna really showcase so
many people's unbelievablestories of resilience and
triumph, despite it all.
You know, like you think mystory is interesting, it's
(33:55):
nothing compared to some of thepeople that will be coming on
here, let me tell you.
Anyway, that's it for now.
If you're enjoying the show,feel free to like, subscribe,
give the show a great rating,and you can share this show
around with your mates,especially those who maybe um
are suffering from the effectsof mental ill health, in
particular those that maybethink that they're very alone on
(34:17):
their journey.
Um, feel free to show them thispodcast because I'd like to
think that you know this showdoes um, you know, allow people
to see and understand that youknow mental ill health is a
problem for a lot of us, butwe're not going through this
alone.
We are in this together, let'shelp each other out, and maybe
(34:37):
passing this show around couldbe part of that.
I don't know.
I don't know.
You tell me.
All right, thank you everybodyfor listening.
I do appreciate it.
As always, you can follow me onInstagram as well at
elliott.t.waters.
Amazing content, and you canfollow the show on Facebook,
which I'm now starting to rampup the content on there as well
by searching for thedysregulated podcast.
(34:59):
All right, I'm starting to notmake sense, so I better go.
Thank you, everybody.
Have a good one, and I'll seeyou next time here on the
dysregulated podcast.
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