March 19, 2024 • 25 mins
In this episode, we delve deeper into the Universal Design for Learning (UDL) principles, examining the pillar of 'action and expression'. We review the importance of different methods and accommodations that allow students to demonstrate their learning in the most effective manner. We'll also highlight potential barriers, such as physical impairments and language difficulties, while emphasizing the value of alternative strategies and physical interaction with materials.
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Featured Content
**For detailed show notes, please visit our website at https://edugals.com/137**
- 00:00 Introduction to Universal Design for Learning
- 00:33 Understanding the Pillar of Action and Expression
- 01:35 Personal Experiences with Organizational Abilities
- 03:51 Exploring the Physical Action Guideline
- 04:27 Addressing Barriers in Physical Action
- 09:59 Optimizing Access to Tools and Assistive Technologies
- 11:44 Expression and Communication: A New Pillar
- 13:20 Exploring Multiple Media for Communication
- 13:26 Using Multiple Tools for Construction and Composition
- 13:37 Building Fluencies with Graduated Levels of Support
- 21:45 Conclusion and Reflections
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- Katie @KatieAttwell
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Rachel (00:41):
In this episode, we are going to begin to look at how we
can provide multiple means ofaction and expression using the
Universal Design for LearningFramework.
Katie (00:51):
We are going to discuss the physical action pillar, and
we're going to start theconversation about expression
and communication.
Rachel (00:58):
let's get started.
This week, Katie and I arereturning to UDL, Universal
Design for Learning, and kind ofcontinuing our learning journey
with this set of guidelines, andspecifically, beginning to look
(01:19):
at the pillar of action andexpression.
Katie (01:22):
Yes, it feels like it's been a long journey, but it's,
it's been a fascinating journeybecause actually reading about
this and learning about this hasbeen Productive, and also in
some ways affirming because wedo things without really
realizing why we do them.
And so it's nice when you'rereading about some of this stuff
and it makes sense of it all.
So, action and expression kindof dives into how students
(01:45):
navigate a learning environment,how they show what they know,
how they demonstrate that inclass, and the importance of
providing different methods,different accommodations, etc.
so that all learners are able todemonstrate what they know in an
environment that is mostcomfortable or optimal for them.
Rachel (02:05):
Yeah, and there's a lot of potential barriers here that
you kind of have to consider,too.
So, a lot of times we ask ourstudents to express themselves
either in writing or in orallanguage, but we have to
consider those students who havemovement impairments, right?
And, you know, some, some ofthose issues.
(02:25):
Or looking at those who havelanguage barriers.
And so like there, there's manysort of kind of pieces that we
need to think about and makesure that we're providing means
of action and expression that'sgoing to be optimal for all
learners.
Katie (02:41):
Yeah.
They also mention those whostruggle with strategic and
organizational abilities.
And this is like, I, maybe notformally, but this is me to a T.
Like, I struggle withorganization.
So if you want me to, like, showyou a nice binder that's put
together, because I rememberdoing binder checks in high
school.
And I was always the worst,because that's just, it's not
(03:02):
good for me.
It doesn't, I don't know.
So for me, organization?
Terrible.
No, no strategies, nothing theytaught me ever got me better at
that.
Rachel (03:11):
And see, that's funny.
I was totally the opposite.
As, as a kid.
I'm, I'm worse now as an adult.
I'm not as organized as I waswhen I was younger, but my
binder would be impeccable,right?
I'd have all the tabs and Iloved organizing it.
And, um, I would also sometimesjust even like on weekends or
whatnot as a kid, like I wouldbe like, oh, I want to go
(03:35):
organize a drawer today.
So I'd like organize my drawersand yeah.
I was a little bit much as
Katie (03:42):
We really are opposites.
Rachel (03:45):
I'm not as organized though now.
Now I think it's easier when youhave smaller spaces, right?
But like, as an adult, my houseis a mess.
Katie (03:54):
Oh yes, yes.
But like, even my Google driveis a mess.
Like, let's be honest, myfolders disastrous.
Rachel (04:02):
Oh, no.
And see, mine are still prettyorganized.
So I will have sort of a folderfor every single course that I
teach as well as different otherthings.
I will put numbers in front ofthem to put them up at the top
of my drive, and then in eachone, it's divided out by modules
or units, and then every lessonis, is in numerical order too.
Katie (04:23):
Oh, geez.
Yeah, I always start off strong.
I start off with the best ofintentions, and then it becomes
my Katie chaos.
But, it is what it is.
But, so like some of this, Ireally kind of, I feel quite a
bit how our students might befeeling in our classrooms, and
with some of the ways that we'reasking them to engage and
(04:43):
express their learning.
But uh, yeah, so, just my littletwo cents in my own kind of
Experience.
Rachel (04:49):
Yeah, so I like we're not going to get through all of
action and expression for surein this episode, but I think
we'll kind of see how we go.
We're going to definitely lookat the physical action
guideline, which is all aboutinter interacting with
accessible materials and tools,and then get into some of the
other checkpoints withexpression and communication.
(05:11):
So composing and sharing ideasusing tools to help attain
learning goals.
And then we'll save, uh,executive functions hmm.
Katie (05:26):
I think so.
And I love how we balance eachother out so well.
Okay.
So in terms of providing optionsfor physical action, there are
two sort of checkpoints here.
Um, But here we're talking aboutlooking.
at the format that we're askingthem to use in terms of writing,
(05:47):
interacting with content, etcetera.
So, we have to ensure that, youknow, if somebody has, you know,
physical mobility issues andwriting is an issue, if we're
giving a textbook or workbookwhere we have, like, small print
and small spaces to fill andwrite, we're, we're not really
helping them out here.
So, ensuring that we haveappropriate.
(06:09):
Spaces provided and then alsothe use of different educational
software to, to help studentsnavigate and interact with
content and learning.
Rachel (06:19):
I kind of noticed even I, I gave my class a test the
other week and even that some ofthe spaces I provided on there,
I have a few students whosehandwriting is very large and so
it's not enough space for them
Katie (06:34):
That's me
Rachel (06:34):
draw out what they needed to and it kind of made me
think a little bit.
I'm like, Oh, you know, like Ican give them extra paper, but
then it's, I don't know it'sadding another onus on them,
instead of me being thinkingahead and providing that extra
space that Those students mightneed.
Katie (06:51):
That, that was also me?
Yeah, I write bigger and it'sbecause I can't, I don't know, I
can't write small and it'sreally hard for me to write
neat.
So even numbers, et cetera,would always take up more space.
And so I feel that.
And so it can be stressful whenyou're trying to, you know, in
a, in a test or evaluation oreven in note taking, trying to
fit into this small space andyou're like, oh, this is like,
(07:13):
how do I, how do I make it smallenough?
Cause then I'm worrying too muchabout the letters and missing
the lesson itself.
Or I'm focusing too much onmaking it fit and skipping steps
because it's like no space left.
Yeah, I don't know.
I'm interesting.
Rachel (07:27):
What's funny then is I also have students on the
opposite end of the spectrum,right?
Who write so tiny that it nowprovides a barrier for me to be
able to assess their work andgive them feedback because, you
know, I'm getting old, I'mgetting up there in years and I
can't read the tiny print evenmore.
And even with reading glasses,it's a real struggle.
Katie (07:47):
Oh yeah.
Rachel (07:47):
So, I don't know.
You see the whole, whole kind ofspectrum and that's just like
testing.
Think about all the other kindsof activities and stuff that you
do in the classroom and, youknow, how do you make sure that
you're accommodating for all ofthe possibilities and making
sure that you're reducing all ofthe barriers as much as you can.
Katie (08:06):
And, you know, if you have students who don't have uh,
first language literacy itdoesn't mean they can't learn
the content, but how are yousupporting them to be able to
understand what they're readingand to be able to demonstrate
that.
There's, there's lots of otherlearning exceptionalities to
consider, but one that does comeup, though not as often, is
(08:27):
first language literacy, so it'simportant to also keep that in
the back of your mind.
Because not everybody has firstand second language literacy
skills.
Rachel (08:34):
So they do provide some really great sort of suggestions
here in terms of at least forvarying the methods for response
and navigation.
So sort of the first one theytalk about is thinking about
alternatives.
In the requirements for rate,timing, speed, and range of
motor action that's required tointeract with any of the
(08:56):
materials that you're teachingwith or physical manipulatives
or even any of the technologiesthat you're using.
Katie (09:02):
Yeah, so particularly those who maybe, you know, motor
skills aren't that great, orsome sort of physical
disability, you want to ensurethat they have the right amount
of time to be able to actuallycomplete what you're asking them
to do.
Rachel (09:15):
it kind of makes me think about, like, time tests,
though.
Katie (09:18):
I hate bell ringers or time tests.
Rachel (09:20):
Yeah, and you know what, like, I teach in the IB
curriculum and the IB world andtheir timing is awful.
It's almost something I'm kindof struggling with this year in
terms of like how guilty I'mfeeling because I want my
students to practice that sortof timing that they're going to
have on the exam, but at thesame time I don't...
(09:41):
I don't want to do that and Iwant to be able to give them the
time that they need to be ableto demonstrate their learning.
I don't, I don't know.
I, I'm, it's a, a area of greattension for me this year.
Katie (09:56):
I get that entirely.
Because, just because it takessomebody a little bit longer to
process and write and show theiranswers and knowledge doesn't
mean that they don't have thatknowledge.
Right?
That's a barrier.
Rachel (10:08):
And it's, it's almost like since I've had this shift
in terms of my teaching practiceand going to more mastery based
grading and flexible pacing, itreally bugs me.
Katie (10:21):
The next one is providing alternatives for physically
responding.
Or indicating selection.
So, looking at um, Instead ofpen and pencil, what are some
other things that we could dowhere students can respond,
perhaps orally perhaps throughsome other sort of demonstration
depending on the course.
So kind of taking a look at whatare different ways of
(10:43):
demonstrating that content orlearning.
Rachel (10:45):
Yeah, and then the last one kind of goes into a little
bit more of that.
So physically um, how, howyou're physically interacting
with materials.
So thinking about uh, differentways that you can interact with
them, with your hands, with yourvoice with different pieces of
technology as well.
Katie (11:03):
Yeah.
That kind of sums up thatcheckpoint.
Rachel (11:06):
Yeah, and so the next one kind of follows along with
that and talks about optimizingaccess to tools and assistive
technologies.
So I think it's a lot of kind ofthe same ideas where we, when
we're sort of thinking aboutselecting those tools and
assistive technologies, thinkingabout all of the different ways
that we're interacting with it.
Katie (11:27):
And it's also, there's lots of different assistive
technology tools we can use, butit's, we have to make sure that
we're using them regularly andnot just during an assessment.
Right?
We don't want assessments andevaluations to be the first time
and only time students areactually using these tools.
So, using them regularly so thatthey can learn them and be
(11:49):
comfortable with them is key.
And then also ensuring, justbecause they, we are allowing
students to use assistivetechnology doesn't mean that we
can't challenge their brains andminds and, and, and show what
they know and how they can applycontent in new ways.
So allow it to be challenging,but accessible.
Mm
Rachel (12:08):
so they, they do talk about in this checkpoint, like
some of the, the different waysthat you can interact with the
technologies and somesuggestions around things you
might consider.
So, When we think of using anassistive technology, typically,
it's either typing on a keyboardor it's clicking with a mouse,
and sometimes that's a barrierfor students in terms of
(12:30):
especially the mouse and themouse clicking.
I've actually taught a fewstudents in the past where
They've had big struggles withbeing able to navigate with a
mouse.
So even something simple asteaching keyboard shortcuts to
limit how much you're, you'reusing, the mouse can go a long
way.
Katie (12:48):
With that in mind, it's probably worth going on to the
next pillar.
And that pillar is expressionand communication.
And this is, I don't know, Ithink I like this one.
And I think I find this one alittle more relevant to my
teaching experience.
But it's this idea that there'sno single medium of expression
that is suitable for alllearners.
for all kinds of communication.
So it's taking a look at how,what opportunities we are
(13:11):
providing students with to showtheir learning.
And does it have to be writing,right?
Does it have to be speaking?
What are some options that wecan provide to students so that
every student has an opportunityto demonstrate what they know in
a way that can really highlighttheir skills.
Rachel (13:26):
Does it always have to be a test?
Katie (13:28):
I know.
Rachel (13:28):
Ah, I've got bones to pick with IB right now.
It does, oh gosh, it does feel,yeah, anyway, I won't go down
that road.
but yeah, like thinking aboutwhat are some of the different
ways that you can have studentsexpress their knowledge, their
ideas, their concepts in, in alearning environment.
It doesn't always have to be atest or a project or a lab,
(13:52):
like, there are many sort ofways that you can approach all
of those different pieces.
Katie (13:57):
Now, I know in a language classroom, if I'm doing a
writing evaluation orassessment, it has to be
writing.
And that's okay.
But that's where we can kind oflook at the nitty gritty as
well.
Like, what does writing looklike and sound like, and what
format?
So, and I think we're about todive into that a little bit
further.
But um, There are occasionswhere, yes, it does have to be a
specific skill or, or methodthat they're showing, but We can
(14:20):
still kind of work within that.
Rachel (14:22):
So there's, um, three kind of checkpoints in this
particular pillar.
So, using multiple media forcommunication, so expressing
learning in flexible ways.
Checkpoint two is using multipletools for construction and
composition.
So, how can you share yourthoughts and ideas?
using tools that are going tocomplement the learning goal.
(14:43):
And then, third checkpoint isbuilding fluencies with
graduated levels of support forpractice and performance.
So, how do we scaffold tosupport independent learning?
Katie (14:54):
And that one is, I have a lot of opinions about that.
Last one?
For mainstream teachers.
Let's talk.
Rachel (15:01):
that, one's gonna end up being a separate episode.
Katie (15:03):
So yeah, so if we take a look at checkpoint one there, so
using multiple media forcommunication, This is, I mean,
similar to what I was justsaying.
So it's looking at How can we,like what opportunities are we
giving students to show whatthey know?
Does it have to be an essay?
Does it have to be whateverelse?
so giving options, so comics,storyboards, design, film,
(15:25):
music, visual art.
Like, so many different ways incontent area courses where
students can demonstrate whatyou have been teaching them, all
of their learning.
And it doesn't have to just besome sort of traditional method
that we've always used.
Rachel (15:39):
Now, I think like you pointed out earlier, there are
instances where it is absolutelycritical to the goal that you
use a specific format, andthat's okay, too.
Like, if you are assessingwriting, you have to write.
But I guess the way you'reaccessing that writing, for
example, You know, maybe you'rescribing for a student.
(16:00):
Maybe they're using a voice totext app.
Like, there are many ways to getto that writing.
Maybe they're writing in theirfirst language first and then
translating to English.
There's different ways that youcan approach that goal, but, you
know, you're still getting atthe goal that you need to get
to.
Katie (16:18):
Yeah.
There's different ways of doingit.
And it doesn't, you don'talways, like, if there's an
opportunity where you don't needto do a specific method, why not
explore alternatives?
Rachel (16:26):
Yeah, I always point out, you know, in our Ontario
Curriculum for Science, nowheredoes it say that students must
write a lab report,
Katie (16:34):
And there we go, right?
is it a good skill to have?
Sure.
Why not, why not guide themthrough and then give options?
Rachel (16:40):
Yeah, and there's lots of options, right?
Like...
I haven't done this withstudents.
I keep meaning to, but I thinkit'd be really fun.
And I think it'd be fun for myIBs if they weren't so
overloaded with all the otherwork that they need to do in
their course, which is probablywhy I've never done this before.
But, um, they do aninvestigation of their own
choosing.
Like they do a lab where theycome up with their own research
(17:03):
question and they do theexperiments and then they write
it up and they have to write alab report for that.
But I've always thoughtafterwards, like, wouldn't it be
cool to have like, almost like ascience fair kind of thing where
they create posters of theirwork and they model those
posters on poster presentationsthat you would see at like,
(17:24):
typical research conferences andstuff like that, and have other
people see their work other thanjust, you know, myself and IB.
But that would be adding totheir workload, which is
probably why I've never done it.
ha ha ha But you could do thatfor like, for anything, really,
you could do posterpresentations or you could do,
(17:44):
you find results from a lab andthen you do a comic strip about
it and, you know, disseminatingthe results from what you found.
I don't know, there's, there'slots of cool ways.
Doing an interpretive dance ifyou wanted to.
Katie (17:58):
I mean, I don't know how you would work that into
science, but I would like to seethat.
Rachel (18:02):
Well, okay.
And this was funny.
The other week is um, We doVesper theory, which is just
about what sort of shapesmolecules take in you know,
depending on what their formulais and whatnot.
And I have this cute littlepicture on Vesper yoga, and it's
like mimicking all the shapes ofmolecules in yoga positions.
(18:22):
And then I tell them that theyneed to practice their Vesper
yoga.
Katie (18:26):
That's actually kind of funny.
I like that.
Rachel (18:28):
It is, it is, and then, yeah, but then I had a student
last week who's like How would Ido that?
Can, can you demonstrate thetetrahedral shape?
And I'm like, oh crap.
Katie (18:38):
Darn it.
Why did I tell you to do
Rachel (18:40):
I'm like, why did I put that on there?
But anyway, it's still, it'sgood fun, but you know, even
bringing in some of that, thatmovement or the, the kinesthetic
kind of pieces can go a long wayfor some students.
Mm
Katie (18:54):
they may actually have, like, maybe they wanna sit, they
have to sit down and, and showwhat it would look like on
paper.
Having that physical kind ofidea of how to move your body
and what that would then looklike, that could actually be a
really good key for them.
Like that could be how theyaccess and remember that.
Rachel (19:10):
We do that with our grade nines uh, when we do
electricity, and we're talkingabout how electrons flow through
a wire.
We, we turn them into electrons,and we, you know, walk them
around the classroom in, incircuits.
So, it's kind of fun, yeah, andit's like a really simple, easy
thing to do.
And some students really, reallystruggle with the concept of
circuits until you do that, andthen they're like, Oh my
(19:32):
goodness, I get it!
Katie (19:33):
so within this checkpoint they're also saying, allow
students to use social media andinteractive web tools.
So discussion formats, chats,web design, annotation tools,
storyboards, comic strips,animation presentations.
And I like that because theseare real world tools that
they're interacting with on adaily basis, and they no one are
comfortable with.
Obviously, to a certain extent.
(19:54):
You can't always have them usesome of these things, especially
if they're not approved by yourboard.
But just taking a look at how wecan get them to interact with
real world applications.
Rachel (20:03):
The last one talks a lot about uh, solving problems using
a variety of strategies, and Ireally like that.
I think that actually goesreally nicely with a thinking
classroom approach, because youcould give a problem, and it
doesn't need, like, you don'tneed to do full thinking
classrooms.
You could give a problem at thebeginning of class.
Say, for example, like we talkedabout in uh, one of our previous
(20:27):
episodes about opening routinesthat we use in our mastery based
classrooms.
We'll link that in the shownotes for you.
But, uh, you could introduce aproblem at the beginning of
class.
So maybe there are a variety ofstrategies that could work.
That can be used to solve it andhaving students up on the
whiteboards and just being ableto see that display of all of
the different ways that peoplecan approach a problem is can
(20:50):
really help benefit learning.
Katie (20:52):
And so, and this one also kind of dives into What tools we
allow students to use and is itreally realistic or reflective
of tools they can use out in thegreater society?
Like for example, spellcheckers, grammar checkers, word
prediction.
These are all things that ourstudents use on a regular basis.
And let's be honest, when you'rein the work world, you're going
(21:13):
to have access to those too.
So if we're providing anassessment environment in which
we're removing that, we'reessentially showing that we
value one type of learner overthe rest.
So, there are language learners,there are those who have
dyslexia, there are those whohave other learning
disabilities, etc.
that it creates a challenge forthem.
And so, by removing access tosome of these tools, we're,
(21:36):
we're kind of putting up abarrier.
Rachel (21:37):
I think we need to add chat GPT to the mix too, because
let's be honest, like even I useit quite on quite a regular
basis now in terms of workflowand some of the things that I
end up doing, not only for thepodcast, right, but also for
even things related to myteaching position.
Katie (21:57):
hmm.
Yep.
Rachel (21:58):
it's a tool.
It's a tool that is being used.
And I think we really need to, Idon't know, we, we need to have
the conversations about what isthe responsible use in education
and like, not just be, well, wecan't use it.
Katie (22:12):
And we know they are using it.
So, how do we mark, or assess,or check for learning in
alternative ways that...
That don't look just at finalproduct, right?
We want to be accessing theirthinking process and, and how
they've come up with some ofthese things.
So, you have to value that.
You have to look at that and,and allow that to be part of the
(22:35):
marks.
And how they express that, likewhy, yes an essay, etc.
is going to be in writing, butwhy not do like an oral
component and do someconferencing with respect to
process and planning?
Because that's just as valuable.
The ideas are still coming fromthem.
So it's looking at how we, howwe are setting things up.
Rachel (22:52):
And I think that's the big shift that we're going to
see over the next few years ismoving away and like it, it
should be the shift regardlessis moving away from the product
and more to the process.
Katie (23:03):
It's hard for many, but
Rachel (23:05):
It is hard for many.
I agree.
Katie (23:07):
Yeah.
But it's fascinating.
But yeah, so looking at allowingthe use of these tools because
the tools are there and they'reusing them.
And you're creating anartificial environment that
doesn't actually reflect,reflect reality.
You're not preparing them fortheir futures.
Rachel (23:23):
Agreed.
Katie (23:23):
And then I think we have to end there, because the next
one you know we're going to betalking about quite a bit.
Rachel (23:28):
Yeah, I think the next two is probably going to, it's
going to be quite a discussion.
So I think definitely on thatnote, we are going to wrap up
our conversation here today andwe'll get back into expression
and communication more in ournext episode on UDL.
And so what we'll do is we'llinclude any of the links or
(23:48):
resources we talked about heretoday in our show notes.
You can access our show notesfor this episode at edugals.
com slash 137.
That's E D U G A L S dot comslash 137.
Katie (24:01):
And if you like what you heard today, then feel free to
share it with a colleague or afriend.
And don't forget to subscribe onyour favourite podcast app so
that you don't miss out on anyfuture content.
Rachel (24:10):
And as always, we'd love to hear from you.
And really, what are your ideas?
Like what, what sort ofdifferent multiple ways do you
approach expression of learningand those physical actions in
your classroom?
We'd love to hear your ideas.
You can go on to our Flip atedugals.
com slash Flipgrid, or you cango on to our website at edugals.
(24:32):
com and leave us a writtenreply.
Katie (24:35):
Thanks for listening and see you next week.
In this episode, we are going to begin to look at how we
can provide multiple means ofaction and expression using the
Universal Design for LearningFramework.
Katie (00:51):
We are going to discuss the physical action pillar, and
we're going to start theconversation about expression
and communication.
Rachel (00:58):
let's get started.
This week, Katie and I arereturning to UDL, Universal
Design for Learning, and kind ofcontinuing our learning journey
with this set of guidelines, andspecifically, beginning to look
(01:19):
at the pillar of action andexpression.
Katie (01:22):
Yes, it feels like it's been a long journey, but it's,
it's been a fascinating journeybecause actually reading about
this and learning about this hasbeen Productive, and also in
some ways affirming because wedo things without really
realizing why we do them.
And so it's nice when you'rereading about some of this stuff
and it makes sense of it all.
So, action and expression kindof dives into how students
(01:45):
navigate a learning environment,how they show what they know,
how they demonstrate that inclass, and the importance of
providing different methods,different accommodations, etc.
so that all learners are able todemonstrate what they know in an
environment that is mostcomfortable or optimal for them.
Rachel (02:05):
Yeah, and there's a lot of potential barriers here that
you kind of have to consider,too.
So, a lot of times we ask ourstudents to express themselves
either in writing or in orallanguage, but we have to
consider those students who havemovement impairments, right?
And, you know, some, some ofthose issues.
(02:25):
Or looking at those who havelanguage barriers.
And so like there, there's manysort of kind of pieces that we
need to think about and makesure that we're providing means
of action and expression that'sgoing to be optimal for all
learners.
Katie (02:41):
Yeah.
They also mention those whostruggle with strategic and
organizational abilities.
And this is like, I, maybe notformally, but this is me to a T.
Like, I struggle withorganization.
So if you want me to, like, showyou a nice binder that's put
together, because I rememberdoing binder checks in high
school.
And I was always the worst,because that's just, it's not
(03:02):
good for me.
It doesn't, I don't know.
So for me, organization?
Terrible.
No, no strategies, nothing theytaught me ever got me better at
that.
Rachel (03:11):
And see, that's funny.
I was totally the opposite.
As, as a kid.
I'm, I'm worse now as an adult.
I'm not as organized as I waswhen I was younger, but my
binder would be impeccable,right?
I'd have all the tabs and Iloved organizing it.
And, um, I would also sometimesjust even like on weekends or
whatnot as a kid, like I wouldbe like, oh, I want to go
(03:35):
organize a drawer today.
So I'd like organize my drawersand yeah.
I was a little bit much as
Katie (03:42):
We really are opposites.
Rachel (03:45):
I'm not as organized though now.
Now I think it's easier when youhave smaller spaces, right?
But like, as an adult, my houseis a mess.
Katie (03:54):
Oh yes, yes.
But like, even my Google driveis a mess.
Like, let's be honest, myfolders disastrous.
Rachel (04:02):
Oh, no.
And see, mine are still prettyorganized.
So I will have sort of a folderfor every single course that I
teach as well as different otherthings.
I will put numbers in front ofthem to put them up at the top
of my drive, and then in eachone, it's divided out by modules
or units, and then every lessonis, is in numerical order too.
Katie (04:23):
Oh, geez.
Yeah, I always start off strong.
I start off with the best ofintentions, and then it becomes
my Katie chaos.
But, it is what it is.
But, so like some of this, Ireally kind of, I feel quite a
bit how our students might befeeling in our classrooms, and
with some of the ways that we'reasking them to engage and
(04:43):
express their learning.
But uh, yeah, so, just my littletwo cents in my own kind of
Experience.
Rachel (04:49):
Yeah, so I like we're not going to get through all of
action and expression for surein this episode, but I think
we'll kind of see how we go.
We're going to definitely lookat the physical action
guideline, which is all aboutinter interacting with
accessible materials and tools,and then get into some of the
other checkpoints withexpression and communication.
(05:11):
So composing and sharing ideasusing tools to help attain
learning goals.
And then we'll save, uh,executive functions hmm.
Katie (05:26):
I think so.
And I love how we balance eachother out so well.
Okay.
So in terms of providing optionsfor physical action, there are
two sort of checkpoints here.
Um, But here we're talking aboutlooking.
at the format that we're askingthem to use in terms of writing,
(05:47):
interacting with content, etcetera.
So, we have to ensure that, youknow, if somebody has, you know,
physical mobility issues andwriting is an issue, if we're
giving a textbook or workbookwhere we have, like, small print
and small spaces to fill andwrite, we're, we're not really
helping them out here.
So, ensuring that we haveappropriate.
(06:09):
Spaces provided and then alsothe use of different educational
software to, to help studentsnavigate and interact with
content and learning.
Rachel (06:19):
I kind of noticed even I, I gave my class a test the
other week and even that some ofthe spaces I provided on there,
I have a few students whosehandwriting is very large and so
it's not enough space for them
Katie (06:34):
That's me
Rachel (06:34):
draw out what they needed to and it kind of made me
think a little bit.
I'm like, Oh, you know, like Ican give them extra paper, but
then it's, I don't know it'sadding another onus on them,
instead of me being thinkingahead and providing that extra
space that Those students mightneed.
Katie (06:51):
That, that was also me?
Yeah, I write bigger and it'sbecause I can't, I don't know, I
can't write small and it'sreally hard for me to write
neat.
So even numbers, et cetera,would always take up more space.
And so I feel that.
And so it can be stressful whenyou're trying to, you know, in
a, in a test or evaluation oreven in note taking, trying to
fit into this small space andyou're like, oh, this is like,
(07:13):
how do I, how do I make it smallenough?
Cause then I'm worrying too muchabout the letters and missing
the lesson itself.
Or I'm focusing too much onmaking it fit and skipping steps
because it's like no space left.
Yeah, I don't know.
I'm interesting.
Rachel (07:27):
What's funny then is I also have students on the
opposite end of the spectrum,right?
Who write so tiny that it nowprovides a barrier for me to be
able to assess their work andgive them feedback because, you
know, I'm getting old, I'mgetting up there in years and I
can't read the tiny print evenmore.
And even with reading glasses,it's a real struggle.
Katie (07:47):
Oh yeah.
Rachel (07:47):
So, I don't know.
You see the whole, whole kind ofspectrum and that's just like
testing.
Think about all the other kindsof activities and stuff that you
do in the classroom and, youknow, how do you make sure that
you're accommodating for all ofthe possibilities and making
sure that you're reducing all ofthe barriers as much as you can.
Katie (08:06):
And, you know, if you have students who don't have uh,
first language literacy itdoesn't mean they can't learn
the content, but how are yousupporting them to be able to
understand what they're readingand to be able to demonstrate
that.
There's, there's lots of otherlearning exceptionalities to
consider, but one that does comeup, though not as often, is
(08:27):
first language literacy, so it'simportant to also keep that in
the back of your mind.
Because not everybody has firstand second language literacy
skills.
Rachel (08:34):
So they do provide some really great sort of suggestions
here in terms of at least forvarying the methods for response
and navigation.
So sort of the first one theytalk about is thinking about
alternatives.
In the requirements for rate,timing, speed, and range of
motor action that's required tointeract with any of the
(08:56):
materials that you're teachingwith or physical manipulatives
or even any of the technologiesthat you're using.
Katie (09:02):
Yeah, so particularly those who maybe, you know, motor
skills aren't that great, orsome sort of physical
disability, you want to ensurethat they have the right amount
of time to be able to actuallycomplete what you're asking them
to do.
Rachel (09:15):
it kind of makes me think about, like, time tests,
though.
Katie (09:18):
I hate bell ringers or time tests.
Rachel (09:20):
Yeah, and you know what, like, I teach in the IB
curriculum and the IB world andtheir timing is awful.
It's almost something I'm kindof struggling with this year in
terms of like how guilty I'mfeeling because I want my
students to practice that sortof timing that they're going to
have on the exam, but at thesame time I don't...
(09:41):
I don't want to do that and Iwant to be able to give them the
time that they need to be ableto demonstrate their learning.
I don't, I don't know.
I, I'm, it's a, a area of greattension for me this year.
Katie (09:56):
I get that entirely.
Because, just because it takessomebody a little bit longer to
process and write and show theiranswers and knowledge doesn't
mean that they don't have thatknowledge.
Right?
That's a barrier.
Rachel (10:08):
And it's, it's almost like since I've had this shift
in terms of my teaching practiceand going to more mastery based
grading and flexible pacing, itreally bugs me.
Katie (10:21):
The next one is providing alternatives for physically
responding.
Or indicating selection.
So, looking at um, Instead ofpen and pencil, what are some
other things that we could dowhere students can respond,
perhaps orally perhaps throughsome other sort of demonstration
depending on the course.
So kind of taking a look at whatare different ways of
(10:43):
demonstrating that content orlearning.
Rachel (10:45):
Yeah, and then the last one kind of goes into a little
bit more of that.
So physically um, how, howyou're physically interacting
with materials.
So thinking about uh, differentways that you can interact with
them, with your hands, with yourvoice with different pieces of
technology as well.
Katie (11:03):
Yeah.
That kind of sums up thatcheckpoint.
Rachel (11:06):
Yeah, and so the next one kind of follows along with
that and talks about optimizingaccess to tools and assistive
technologies.
So I think it's a lot of kind ofthe same ideas where we, when
we're sort of thinking aboutselecting those tools and
assistive technologies, thinkingabout all of the different ways
that we're interacting with it.
Katie (11:27):
And it's also, there's lots of different assistive
technology tools we can use, butit's, we have to make sure that
we're using them regularly andnot just during an assessment.
Right?
We don't want assessments andevaluations to be the first time
and only time students areactually using these tools.
So, using them regularly so thatthey can learn them and be
(11:49):
comfortable with them is key.
And then also ensuring, justbecause they, we are allowing
students to use assistivetechnology doesn't mean that we
can't challenge their brains andminds and, and, and show what
they know and how they can applycontent in new ways.
So allow it to be challenging,but accessible.
Mm
Rachel (12:08):
so they, they do talk about in this checkpoint, like
some of the, the different waysthat you can interact with the
technologies and somesuggestions around things you
might consider.
So, When we think of using anassistive technology, typically,
it's either typing on a keyboardor it's clicking with a mouse,
and sometimes that's a barrierfor students in terms of
(12:30):
especially the mouse and themouse clicking.
I've actually taught a fewstudents in the past where
They've had big struggles withbeing able to navigate with a
mouse.
So even something simple asteaching keyboard shortcuts to
limit how much you're, you'reusing, the mouse can go a long
way.
Katie (12:48):
With that in mind, it's probably worth going on to the
next pillar.
And that pillar is expressionand communication.
And this is, I don't know, Ithink I like this one.
And I think I find this one alittle more relevant to my
teaching experience.
But it's this idea that there'sno single medium of expression
that is suitable for alllearners.
for all kinds of communication.
So it's taking a look at how,what opportunities we are
(13:11):
providing students with to showtheir learning.
And does it have to be writing,right?
Does it have to be speaking?
What are some options that wecan provide to students so that
every student has an opportunityto demonstrate what they know in
a way that can really highlighttheir skills.
Rachel (13:26):
Does it always have to be a test?
Katie (13:28):
I know.
Rachel (13:28):
Ah, I've got bones to pick with IB right now.
It does, oh gosh, it does feel,yeah, anyway, I won't go down
that road.
but yeah, like thinking aboutwhat are some of the different
ways that you can have studentsexpress their knowledge, their
ideas, their concepts in, in alearning environment.
It doesn't always have to be atest or a project or a lab,
(13:52):
like, there are many sort ofways that you can approach all
of those different pieces.
Katie (13:57):
Now, I know in a language classroom, if I'm doing a
writing evaluation orassessment, it has to be
writing.
And that's okay.
But that's where we can kind oflook at the nitty gritty as
well.
Like, what does writing looklike and sound like, and what
format?
So, and I think we're about todive into that a little bit
further.
But um, There are occasionswhere, yes, it does have to be a
specific skill or, or methodthat they're showing, but We can
(14:20):
still kind of work within that.
Rachel (14:22):
So there's, um, three kind of checkpoints in this
particular pillar.
So, using multiple media forcommunication, so expressing
learning in flexible ways.
Checkpoint two is using multipletools for construction and
composition.
So, how can you share yourthoughts and ideas?
using tools that are going tocomplement the learning goal.
(14:43):
And then, third checkpoint isbuilding fluencies with
graduated levels of support forpractice and performance.
So, how do we scaffold tosupport independent learning?
Katie (14:54):
And that one is, I have a lot of opinions about that.
Last one?
For mainstream teachers.
Let's talk.
Rachel (15:01):
that, one's gonna end up being a separate episode.
Katie (15:03):
So yeah, so if we take a look at checkpoint one there, so
using multiple media forcommunication, This is, I mean,
similar to what I was justsaying.
So it's looking at How can we,like what opportunities are we
giving students to show whatthey know?
Does it have to be an essay?
Does it have to be whateverelse?
so giving options, so comics,storyboards, design, film,
(15:25):
music, visual art.
Like, so many different ways incontent area courses where
students can demonstrate whatyou have been teaching them, all
of their learning.
And it doesn't have to just besome sort of traditional method
that we've always used.
Rachel (15:39):
Now, I think like you pointed out earlier, there are
instances where it is absolutelycritical to the goal that you
use a specific format, andthat's okay, too.
Like, if you are assessingwriting, you have to write.
But I guess the way you'reaccessing that writing, for
example, You know, maybe you'rescribing for a student.
(16:00):
Maybe they're using a voice totext app.
Like, there are many ways to getto that writing.
Maybe they're writing in theirfirst language first and then
translating to English.
There's different ways that youcan approach that goal, but, you
know, you're still getting atthe goal that you need to get
to.
Katie (16:18):
Yeah.
There's different ways of doingit.
And it doesn't, you don'talways, like, if there's an
opportunity where you don't needto do a specific method, why not
explore alternatives?
Rachel (16:26):
Yeah, I always point out, you know, in our Ontario
Curriculum for Science, nowheredoes it say that students must
write a lab report,
Katie (16:34):
And there we go, right?
is it a good skill to have?
Sure.
Why not, why not guide themthrough and then give options?
Rachel (16:40):
Yeah, and there's lots of options, right?
Like...
I haven't done this withstudents.
I keep meaning to, but I thinkit'd be really fun.
And I think it'd be fun for myIBs if they weren't so
overloaded with all the otherwork that they need to do in
their course, which is probablywhy I've never done this before.
But, um, they do aninvestigation of their own
choosing.
Like they do a lab where theycome up with their own research
(17:03):
question and they do theexperiments and then they write
it up and they have to write alab report for that.
But I've always thoughtafterwards, like, wouldn't it be
cool to have like, almost like ascience fair kind of thing where
they create posters of theirwork and they model those
posters on poster presentationsthat you would see at like,
(17:24):
typical research conferences andstuff like that, and have other
people see their work other thanjust, you know, myself and IB.
But that would be adding totheir workload, which is
probably why I've never done it.
ha ha ha But you could do thatfor like, for anything, really,
you could do posterpresentations or you could do,
(17:44):
you find results from a lab andthen you do a comic strip about
it and, you know, disseminatingthe results from what you found.
I don't know, there's, there'slots of cool ways.
Doing an interpretive dance ifyou wanted to.
Katie (17:58):
I mean, I don't know how you would work that into
science, but I would like to seethat.
Rachel (18:02):
Well, okay.
And this was funny.
The other week is um, We doVesper theory, which is just
about what sort of shapesmolecules take in you know,
depending on what their formulais and whatnot.
And I have this cute littlepicture on Vesper yoga, and it's
like mimicking all the shapes ofmolecules in yoga positions.
(18:22):
And then I tell them that theyneed to practice their Vesper
yoga.
Katie (18:26):
That's actually kind of funny.
I like that.
Rachel (18:28):
It is, it is, and then, yeah, but then I had a student
last week who's like How would Ido that?
Can, can you demonstrate thetetrahedral shape?
And I'm like, oh crap.
Katie (18:38):
Darn it.
Why did I tell you to do
Rachel (18:40):
I'm like, why did I put that on there?
But anyway, it's still, it'sgood fun, but you know, even
bringing in some of that, thatmovement or the, the kinesthetic
kind of pieces can go a long wayfor some students.
Mm
Katie (18:54):
they may actually have, like, maybe they wanna sit, they
have to sit down and, and showwhat it would look like on
paper.
Having that physical kind ofidea of how to move your body
and what that would then looklike, that could actually be a
really good key for them.
Like that could be how theyaccess and remember that.
Rachel (19:10):
We do that with our grade nines uh, when we do
electricity, and we're talkingabout how electrons flow through
a wire.
We, we turn them into electrons,and we, you know, walk them
around the classroom in, incircuits.
So, it's kind of fun, yeah, andit's like a really simple, easy
thing to do.
And some students really, reallystruggle with the concept of
circuits until you do that, andthen they're like, Oh my
(19:32):
goodness, I get it!
Katie (19:33):
so within this checkpoint they're also saying, allow
students to use social media andinteractive web tools.
So discussion formats, chats,web design, annotation tools,
storyboards, comic strips,animation presentations.
And I like that because theseare real world tools that
they're interacting with on adaily basis, and they no one are
comfortable with.
Obviously, to a certain extent.
(19:54):
You can't always have them usesome of these things, especially
if they're not approved by yourboard.
But just taking a look at how wecan get them to interact with
real world applications.
Rachel (20:03):
The last one talks a lot about uh, solving problems using
a variety of strategies, and Ireally like that.
I think that actually goesreally nicely with a thinking
classroom approach, because youcould give a problem, and it
doesn't need, like, you don'tneed to do full thinking
classrooms.
You could give a problem at thebeginning of class.
Say, for example, like we talkedabout in uh, one of our previous
(20:27):
episodes about opening routinesthat we use in our mastery based
classrooms.
We'll link that in the shownotes for you.
But, uh, you could introduce aproblem at the beginning of
class.
So maybe there are a variety ofstrategies that could work.
That can be used to solve it andhaving students up on the
whiteboards and just being ableto see that display of all of
the different ways that peoplecan approach a problem is can
(20:50):
really help benefit learning.
Katie (20:52):
And so, and this one also kind of dives into What tools we
allow students to use and is itreally realistic or reflective
of tools they can use out in thegreater society?
Like for example, spellcheckers, grammar checkers, word
prediction.
These are all things that ourstudents use on a regular basis.
And let's be honest, when you'rein the work world, you're going
(21:13):
to have access to those too.
So if we're providing anassessment environment in which
we're removing that, we'reessentially showing that we
value one type of learner overthe rest.
So, there are language learners,there are those who have
dyslexia, there are those whohave other learning
disabilities, etc.
that it creates a challenge forthem.
And so, by removing access tosome of these tools, we're,
(21:36):
we're kind of putting up abarrier.
Rachel (21:37):
I think we need to add chat GPT to the mix too, because
let's be honest, like even I useit quite on quite a regular
basis now in terms of workflowand some of the things that I
end up doing, not only for thepodcast, right, but also for
even things related to myteaching position.
Katie (21:57):
hmm.
Yep.
Rachel (21:58):
it's a tool.
It's a tool that is being used.
And I think we really need to, Idon't know, we, we need to have
the conversations about what isthe responsible use in education
and like, not just be, well, wecan't use it.
Katie (22:12):
And we know they are using it.
So, how do we mark, or assess,or check for learning in
alternative ways that...
That don't look just at finalproduct, right?
We want to be accessing theirthinking process and, and how
they've come up with some ofthese things.
So, you have to value that.
You have to look at that and,and allow that to be part of the
(22:35):
marks.
And how they express that, likewhy, yes an essay, etc.
is going to be in writing, butwhy not do like an oral
component and do someconferencing with respect to
process and planning?
Because that's just as valuable.
The ideas are still coming fromthem.
So it's looking at how we, howwe are setting things up.
Rachel (22:52):
And I think that's the big shift that we're going to
see over the next few years ismoving away and like it, it
should be the shift regardlessis moving away from the product
and more to the process.
Katie (23:03):
It's hard for many, but
Rachel (23:05):
It is hard for many.
I agree.
Katie (23:07):
Yeah.
But it's fascinating.
But yeah, so looking at allowingthe use of these tools because
the tools are there and they'reusing them.
And you're creating anartificial environment that
doesn't actually reflect,reflect reality.
You're not preparing them fortheir futures.
Rachel (23:23):
Agreed.
Katie (23:23):
And then I think we have to end there, because the next
one you know we're going to betalking about quite a bit.
Rachel (23:28):
Yeah, I think the next two is probably going to, it's
going to be quite a discussion.
So I think definitely on thatnote, we are going to wrap up
our conversation here today andwe'll get back into expression
and communication more in ournext episode on UDL.
And so what we'll do is we'llinclude any of the links or
(23:48):
resources we talked about heretoday in our show notes.
You can access our show notesfor this episode at edugals.
com slash 137.
That's E D U G A L S dot comslash 137.
Katie (24:01):
And if you like what you heard today, then feel free to
share it with a colleague or afriend.
And don't forget to subscribe onyour favourite podcast app so
that you don't miss out on anyfuture content.
Rachel (24:10):
And as always, we'd love to hear from you.
And really, what are your ideas?
Like what, what sort ofdifferent multiple ways do you
approach expression of learningand those physical actions in
your classroom?
We'd love to hear your ideas.
You can go on to our Flip atedugals.
com slash Flipgrid, or you cango on to our website at edugals.
(24:32):
com and leave us a writtenreply.
Katie (24:35):
Thanks for listening and see you next week.
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