October 3, 2023 • 27 mins
This week, we are chatting about how Rachel's grading approach is shifting this year. Specifically, we will chat about standards-based grading, how Rachel is applying standards-based grading in her classroom, and where she hopes to be with her grading approaches in this school year.
If you like what you hear, we would love it if you could share this episode with a colleague or friend. And make sure you subscribe so that you don’t miss out on any new content! And consider supporting the show by buying us a coffee or two!
We would love to hear from you – leave a comment on our website OR check out our FLIPGRID!
Featured Content
**For detailed show notes, please visit our website at https://edugals.com/133**
We would love to hear from you – leave a comment on our website OR check out our FLIPGRID!
Featured Content
**For detailed show notes, please visit our website at https://edugals.com/133**
- What is standards-based grading (SBG)? It's a system of grading that is closely tied to mastery of the standards in the curriculum
- Disclaimer: we don't have all of the answers!
- Rethinking Your Grading Scale - E122
- Specifications Grading - E107
- Standards-based grading vs specifications (specs) grading
- ChemEd talk on Standards-Referenced Grading in Chemistry Classrooms
- SBG - 4 levels vs 7 levels (IB)
- Mastery Scales (example 1 and example 2)
- Building up skills from basic, to simple, to target, to complex
- Putting specific expectations into a hierarchical order
- Evaluations still don't have points grades - mastery scales are dependent on demonstration of mastery of those skills within each level
- Learning is broken down into modules (smaller than units)
- Overlap of skills between modules is possible
- Still doing multiple opportunities to demonstrate mastery of skills (2-3 attempts)
- Due dates are the same as any other school year
- Consistent test day each week
- Conferencing at midterm and final reporting periods to collaborate on grades
- Feedback practices remain the same, lots of 1-1 support
- Mastery - defined as 80% or greater (can be individual for each teacher)
- A slight step away from UnGrading
- Do you show the level conversions or not?
- How will students react?
- Mastery-based learning works for content retention!
Connect with EduGals:
- Twitter @EduGals
- Rachel @dr_r_johnson
- Katie @KatieAttwell
- EduGals Website
- Support the show
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Katie (00:41):
In this episode we are shaking it up a bit and I am
going to be talking to Rachelabout what she is doing with
standards based grading in theclassroom.
Ha
Rachel (00:50):
I'll be sharing how my grading approach is shifting in
my classroom this year and whereI'm at right now and where I
hope to be.
Katie (00:59):
Let's get started.
Rachel (01:07):
This week, Katie and I are talking about grading and
uh, especially, I wanted toshare how my sort of grading
approach in my classroom ischanging and shifting this year
a little bit.
Katie (01:21):
Yeah, so I'm going to take the reins and I'm going to
be like quizzing her and gettingall of the details and figuring
out what's going on in herclassroom.
Rachel (01:29):
Now, a big disclaimer, like, I don't think I even know
all the details yet.
I just know that I wanted toshift things a little bit in
terms of, you know, I have IBclasses this year, and so I need
to come up with a little bitmore of an accurate, I guess,
understanding of where thestudents are lying.
(01:52):
based on the IB levels and theirwhole, their whole spiel because
I do have to predict grades andgive those to IB at some point
later in the school year.
And so I wanted to kind of shiftthings a little bit so that I
can hopefully get a really sortof accurate picture of where my
students are at.
Katie (02:10):
Yeah, so we've done a few episodes in the past that we can
link back to that talks about,you know, changing the way we're
grading, looking at the gradingscale et cetera.
So essentially that's whatRachel's doing here.
She's taking a standards basedgrading approach and adapting it
to the IB world, which is kindof exciting because you had, I
think this is for a grade 12course, right?
And you had them in grade 11.
Rachel (02:32):
Yes, and so it's been amazing in terms of starting
with this class again, because Ialready know all the students
and I don't think I've everexperienced that before ever in
my career.
So it's kind of cool.
But yeah, I had them all lastyear.
Now just to kind of remindeveryone, or if this is your
first time listening, I usedwhat's called a specs grading or
(02:54):
specifications grading approach.
So I had laid out my curriculumin terms of outcomes and then,
you know, very sort of brieflyset up how many outcomes they
needed for what sort of grade orlevel that they were going to
get in terms of their finalgrade for that course.
Now that was grade 11 and Thegrades don't really carry over
(03:15):
in their IB course for this yearand I kind of just really wanted
to take the stress off and makeit sort of a really enjoyable
place for us to get a good sortof solid foundation of chemistry
going into year two.
Katie (03:28):
and I think that's amazing, because then you've
kind of set them up.
They know it's not like yourtraditional classroom with
traditional grading practices.
and they know you as an educatorand what to expect.
So, I think you've kind of setit up in such a way where it's a
natural kind of environment for,for new ways of looking at
education.
And, and they're not going to beso taken aback or frightened or
(03:50):
scared about what they're goingto be doing.
Rachel (03:53):
Yeah, I've, I've already heard them saying lots of things
like, you know, chemistry is sorelaxing and you don't hear
those sort of things fromstudents normally.
Right?
Like they're um, they're soexcited about being in my class
again.
They're already super relaxed.
They already know the drillthere.
They love mastery basedlearning.
So it's, it's been just reallysort of nice to just be able to
(04:17):
get right into it with them.
Yeah.
Katie (04:19):
Okay, and so on that note, here's your first
question.
You ready?
Rachel (04:23):
I'm ready.
Katie (04:25):
So can you quickly define what standards based grading
means to you and how you'reusing that in an IB course?
Rachel (04:32):
So I guess kind of in a nutshell, like standards based
grading, if you were looking forany kind of different definition
is that you're grading studentsbased on the standards.
And so any sort of evaluation orthing that you do in your class
that is graded is all veryclosely tied and linked to the
(04:53):
curriculum.
Katie (04:54):
There we go.
I was going to say, you're usingthe word standard.
What does that mean?
Rachel (04:59):
well, standard learning outcome, you know, sort of
whatever that basic topic is,right, that you're, you want
your students to know and to beable to demonstrate mastery of.
Now, like, there's a lot moredetail in terms of standards
based grading, and like, if youdig into the research and do
reading about it or, you know,sort of really kind of deepen
(05:21):
your learning around there,there's, there's a ton.
in terms of what this is andwhat this means.
I did go to a really great talkat the ChemEd conference in the
summer and it got my wheelsspinning about how I want to do
my grading for my grade 12s.
And that's sort of where I'mgaining my inspiration from.
It was, it was a talk calledStandard Reference Grading in
(05:43):
Chemistry Classrooms by a coupleof educators from Missouri.
I, it works so nicely with specsgrading.
It's almost like the next stepup from that.
So it seemed like a naturalprogression to kind of take a
look at what they've done andadapt it to what I want to do in
my class.
Katie (06:00):
And so from kind of the learning I've done and we've
spoken about in the past, whenwe've looked at standards based,
it, it's kind of this idea of afour level system, but not in
the same way that we wouldtraditionally approach it.
So how does that kind oftransfer when you're looking at
the seven level system or markband of the IB world?
Rachel (06:21):
Yeah, that's it.
That's where I'm kind ofstruggling with a little bit to
be quite honest and So I amcreating some master.
I'm calling a mastery scales formy classes and the sort of four
Areas that or the four kind ofgrade bands that you would look
for I'm taking like the levelSeven and six is the top one And
(06:44):
then the level five and four isthe next one, and then a level
three is the next one, level twois the next one, and then level
one is like not having enoughevidence or not meeting the
criteria for a level two.
So I don't know if I love howI've divided it, but uh, I'm
gonna try it out and see how itworks really.
Katie (07:06):
Yeah, that's always the hard part.
Like how do you make one markingsystem fit in with.
One that you're kind of tied tobecause you are tied to the
seven level system, but
Rachel (07:14):
Yeah, I am tied to the seven level system, and I didn't
want to break down a masteryscale into seven different
levels.
Like, it seemed overkill.
Katie (07:23):
Yeah, I'd agree with that statement.
I do kind of like this idea oflike a four level system and
that breakdown
Rachel (07:30):
Now, in terms of what I got from, from that talk that I
went to over the summer, theyhad it broken down into four
levels and it's a little bitdifferent in terms of how they
created their scales.
They looked at, the skills ofbuilding up within a specific
topic.
So if we were looking at, forexample, chemical reactions,
(07:52):
they would go, okay, what is themost basic content that students
need to know to be able todemonstrate towards chemical
reactions and theirunderstanding of that topic?
And then the next level would bethen, okay, Layering on what are
now like the simple content thatgoes along with that.
Above that becomes the targetcontent and that's sort of what
(08:13):
they teach to.
in terms of where they want allof their students to land.
Is it that sort of like thatlevel three?
And then the level above thatwould be complex content.
So really getting into expandingtheir understanding of that
particular topic.
So I kind of took that, butwhat, like, what I really like
about this is that it's.
(08:34):
Taking almost like all of those,I guess, learning targets, or in
terms of an Ontario curriculum,it would be the specific
expectations and putting theminto a hierarchical order.
And I never really thought to dothat with standards based
grading.
Like, it never dawned on me todo that because every other
instance I've seen standardsbased grading, it's been
(08:57):
creating uh, So I that builds ona skill within the classroom.
And it's a scale that you canuse over and over again
throughout your semester ondifferent evaluations.
And I never really saw how Icould apply that to the
sciences, except for like labbased skills that we would go
over and over again.
But content, it was really hardto do that.
(09:18):
So I kind of like this becauseit's, It's taking content and
really sort of naming, like,where's the hierarchy?
How are, how are we building upthat understanding of that
particular content withinchemistry?
Katie (09:30):
I do kind of like how they've done that with the
content and and in some ways I'mlike, oh that actually is
logical because you know it kindof builds and the skills get
more complex as you go and soObviously for that unit or, or
whatever it is that you're,you're teaching, there is that
hierarchy of content that theyneed before they can get to that
next level.
So it does show that.
(09:50):
I do like the way they've laidthat out.
It's very clear and it's very, Idon't know, it's a different way
of approaching it.
Rachel (09:55):
It is.
So it's, like I said, it's, it'staking my, what I was doing with
specs grading, because what Iwas doing with specs grading
was, okay, here are my learningoutcomes.
Like here are the main topicswithin the course that we're
covering.
And now, instead of, you know,you've just.
Either demonstrated mastery onit or not, I'm now blowing up,
well what does mastery of thatcontent look like, and what
(10:18):
level, in terms of the IPcurriculum, does that equate to?
Katie (10:22):
and it's nice because even the way it's laid out, it's
still really clear as to thecontent you're covering and the
expectations you're covering.
And everything is includedthere.
And...
I do kind of like how clean thatis.
So it's not like, I mean, it'sstill kind of traditional, but
not at the same time, if thatmakes sense.
Rachel (10:38):
Yeah, and um, so, like, kind of talking about the
mastery scale that I'vedeveloped a little bit more and
how I would develop evaluationsaround it is there's still no
points grades on anything and Ithink that's that's really
important.
It's about demonstrating masteryof the skills at each of the
different levels.
So my level two.
(10:58):
is demonstrating mastery of, I,like, for example, for one that
I created, I have threedifferent sort of statements or,
or outcomes that I want to seefor that particular level.
And so they would have to beable to demonstrate mastery on
all three of those skills inorder to get a level two.
Katie (11:14):
So here's a question because it is, are you kind of
looking at like a check marksystem and the more that you can
do, the higher you are.
So do you share ahead of timethat level seven system and how
it aligns?
Rachel (11:28):
Oh, yeah, I have, I've, so I've only created two of
these so far for my course.
So just disclaimer, again, I'm,I'm only getting started with
this and I'm kind of, Justmuddling my way through as I'm
kind of developing this, butevery single mastery scale is
right there in bright space forthe students to see as they get
started with the module I'mcalling the modules that we're
(11:51):
learning.
Katie (11:51):
Yeah.
And.
In some ways I love that they'reseeing it because they know they
can't just skip to the very lastkind of highest standard, they
have to be able to actuallydemonstrate all the skills
leading up to it.
So, yeah, So, that is neat.
Okay.
Part of me at first was like,does that make sense?
Because if they know level 7,aren't they just going to gear
toward that and still be gradeskind of minded?
(12:13):
But, because you're saying youcan't get this until you've done
the rest.
Rachel (12:18):
So I have my, like my level 3, which is really an IBA
level 4 5, and then my level 4,which is an IBA level 6 7, I
have them divided out into sortof two, so I have a few
statements with those, but myexpectation there when I'm, I'm
looking at Well, is it a level 4or a level 5 is looking at the
(12:39):
mastery of those skills withinthat level.
Are they mastering just some ofthem or are they mastering all
of them?
And that's how I'm kind of usingthat to differentiate between a
level 4 and a level 5 in termsof IB.
Katie (12:52):
follow up question.
You ready?
Rachel (12:54):
Yes, I am.
Katie (12:55):
Is it possible for there to be overlap between modules in
terms of being able todemonstrate a skill or an
outcome?
So could there be anotheropportunity to demonstrate
mastery in a future module?
Rachel (13:07):
I think there is, with some of the ones, okay, so for
example, significant digits.
We do that.
Anytime we do calculations, theyneed to be able to demonstrate
that they understand significantdigits and how to report answers
to the correct number ofsignificant digits.
If you have no clue what I'mtalking about, don't worry about
(13:29):
it.
But um, it's a concept thatcomes up.
Over and over and over again inchemistry and in physics as
well.
And yeah, many other subjects,but that's one that I would
repopulate again on my masteryscales in terms of Evaluations
though and using this masteryscale like I am still doing
multiple opportunities.
(13:49):
I'm not getting rid of that.
I think that's fantastic So Iwill create, you know, whatever
evaluation I'm doing We'rekeeping this scale in mind and
then Students can attempt it.
I haven't decided if I want todo two or three times yet I
think I might still do three ifneeded But I'm gonna say sort of
(14:10):
to leave it at two and if theyreally need a third attempt Then
I will let them do that.
Katie (14:15):
And now if you have an overlapping skill module to
module, will you allow for thehighest demonstration of mark?
Or will it all be included?
Rachel (14:23):
I don't know.
I, I, I really don't know,actually, to be quite honest.
I think we'll, we'll sort of seehow it progresses over the
semester and, and looking atwhere those skills are.
Katie (14:34):
That makes sense.
Rachel (14:35):
I have no idea.
Katie (14:36):
Yeah, you don't have to.
This is me just thinking aloudand being like, Ooh, what about
this?
What about that?
Um, Due dates.
How is that going to look andsound in your classroom?
Rachel (14:46):
like any other classroom and any other year.
So in terms of like IB is verytest oriented.
So obviously the evaluations inthis course are going to be
tests because that's what I needto prepare my students for.
They write an exam, three papersat the end of this school year.
So like in May and It's worth 80percent of their grade.
(15:10):
So, of course, I'm, like,that's, those are the
evaluations that I'm doing.
And so, last year, with specsgrading, I, I had a system where
we always had a consistent testday every single week, and kids
love that, I love that, so Ithink that's going to continue.
It might get shifted by a weekor so depending on how long
we're in a learning module uh,so there might be weeks where we
(15:32):
kind of skip it, but It'spossible that we just kind of
keep that date set aside forSecond and third attempts to of
previous modules, so I don'tknow yeah, it's it's kind of
figuring it out as we go.
Katie (15:45):
And how are you going to be communicating with students?
Yes, tests.
That's great.
Are you going to do any sort ofconferencing to kind of help
them understand next steps?
Rachel (15:53):
Yeah, I was doing Conferencing last year at
midterm final reporting time.
That's definitely something thatI want to continue Because I'm
gonna end up having a level,like an IB level for every
single module that we do.
And the modules that I'm doing,like they're not traditional
units.
They are breaking down the unitsinto two or three key concepts.
(16:17):
So for example, inelectrochemistry, like I'm
breaking it down into twomodules, one about redox
reactions and one about like theelectrochemical cells and stuff
like that.
So they're kind of two differentsort of key concepts that we end
up learning within thatparticular course.
So I think that's, that I, I'mgoing to end up with quite a few
(16:37):
different levels.
And so I think what I'll do interms of conferencing for
midterm and final reportinggrades is like, okay, let's sit
down and let's look at how youdid level wise on all of these
different modules.
And we'll have the conversationthen around, okay, well, what.
level are we performing at andand where do we think we're at
at this moment in time?
Katie (16:58):
And so feedback how specific will feedback be as
you're going through?
Rachel (17:02):
Yeah in terms of their Like their tests and stuff like
that.
It'll be the same kind offeedback that I've been giving,
last year So the way I've I'vesort of taken This mastery scale
and then created an assessmentthat goes with it is I've taken
every single one of thosestatements and I've Laid it out
So like all the level two stuffis first then the level three
(17:24):
then the four five and then thesix seven so building up The
skills through it.
So it is kind of all divvied outin terms of where they need to
demonstrate certain pieces ofknowledge So that is a little
bit different in terms of howI'm laying it out It doesn't
really affect the content of atest, like, it's still the same
content I would have given, I'mjust laying it out a bit
differently, and then for eachone of those, like, targets or
(17:47):
learning outcomes or whatever,I'll either say they've mastered
it or they need to revise, andMy students know that if I say
no, they need to revise, likethat they need to first go and
try and do corrections on theirown first.
And then they come and talk tome and we have a conversation
and go over and reteach orwhatever we need to do for
(18:09):
whatever ones that they're notmastering.
So it's, it's a lot of like oneon one conversations that happen
with that feedback, which I, Iactually prefer.
I don't actually give a lot ofwritten feedback on tests
because I want them taking thatinitiative and, and those steps
to figure out what's notworking.
Katie (18:27):
No, that makes a lot of sense.
Um, What does mastery mean?
Is that like your level 5, 6?
Is that what your kind of basestandard is?
Are you looking at the 7?
What's mastery?
Rachel (18:35):
Mastery for me, and this, this can change for any
sort of, like for, for everyone,so it's very individual what you
think mastery is.
For mastery for me, I would saygetting 80 percent or greater.
on a particular section,learning outcome, whatever it
is, that that is mastery for me.
Like they are on their way tomastery.
(18:56):
Uh, You know, it allows for afew little errors and stuff like
that.
And that's okay.
Cause everyone makes, you know,silly mistakes.
Katie (19:03):
So essentially they have to Sorry, I'm wrapping my head
around it all because the wayyou have your rubrics lined out
is essentially that content orthose concepts and so they have
to master each concept to moveup the levels.
Rachel (19:14):
Yeah.
So they have to demonstratemastery on, on all of those
concepts.
Like if they want a level seven,they have to demonstrate mastery
on all of the outcomes in thatmastery scale.
Katie (19:23):
I like this even more now, now that I'm actually
understanding.
I love that because then it's,you're making sure mastery of
every one of those conceptsbecause that moves forward into
future success.
Rachel (19:35):
And that's what specs grading did, right?
Like specs grading was you, youeither demonstrate mastery on
it.
So you're passing that outcomeor you're not.
Katie (19:43):
Yeah.
Rachel (19:44):
So this is just taking that specs grading and blowing
it up and, and laying it out, Iguess, in a little bit more of a
hierarchical kind of order.
Katie (19:52):
And it's really breaking down the concepts that they need
to know, which is nice.
And I think it makes it...
easier for them to see andunderstand what they're
learning.
Rachel (20:01):
now it is kind of taking a step away from ungrading, I
guess, in a way, because it isnow equating it to a level, but
it's still not equating it to apercentage grade.
And it's still, you know, like,it's still There's no points
grades.
So, and there are multipleopportunities.
So I think those things arestill going to help take away
(20:24):
some of the stress around gradesand the grade grubbing and, and
all of those sort of piecesbecause the onus is on them,
right, to demonstrate thatmastery of the learning.
Katie (20:34):
Would it be worth considering not showing how
those standards, the standardsbased system translate to IB
levels?
Rachel (20:42):
I thought about that, but I think You know, the grade
12s, they, they do stress aboutwhat level they're at.
And with specs grading, I stillhad an equation, like I had a
grade conversion chart where Isaid, if you pass this many
outcomes, this is a level seven.
If you pass this many outcomes,it's a level six.
So I did still have that, sortof a table where, where students
(21:06):
could see where they're lying.
Like, I think they still needthat information, right?
Katie (21:10):
Part of me wonders if it's worth for like the first
module not showing them and thenas, I know, I know, and then
kind of gearing towards it asthose stress levels are raising,
But I get that.
I also kind of like thetransparency as well.
It's kind of this, you'll haveto let me know how that goes,
because part of me is torn inthat it does end up translating
to a grade and there is thereare many charts that can tell
(21:33):
them what that level would looklike in terms of a percentage.
Rachel (21:36):
Yeah, they did have, like I said, they did have that
information last year though,too.
It was just equating thoselevels and those grades to in a
different way.
So I don't think it's far off ofwhat I was doing.
I think it's more kind of layingout, okay, what are the things
that you need to demonstratemastery on in, within this
particular module in order foryou to get those levels?
Katie (21:59):
Is there anything you're not certain about or
questioning?
Rachel (22:02):
Well, I am questioning how my students are going to
take this.
Katie (22:08):
The human factor is always something we can't
control.
Rachel (22:13):
You know, I always start out the school year, and we're
recording this a bit earlierthan when the episode's coming
out, so we're only just kind ofgetting into our school year
right now.
But, you know, I always startout the school year not talking
about grades.
And it's kind of nice like thisgroup of students, they're
trained not to even ask me aboutgrades now, which is fantastic,
(22:33):
right?
They, uh, the only kind ofquestions I got were, are we
still doing things the same waywe did last year?
And I'm like, yeah, yeah, likestill mastery based learning.
And you know, the grading'smaybe slightly different, but
you know, we'll talk aboutgrades when we get to it.
Katie (22:50):
Nice.
Rachel (22:50):
And that was it.
That was the end of theconversation.
Katie (22:53):
a fabulous conversation.
Rachel (22:54):
It is.
It's, it's just, it'srefreshing.
I think, and, and like I said,you know, I've had these kids
before, so it's really kind ofcool that they, they just know
there's no point in having thatconversation right now.
Katie (23:06):
Yeah, you have set the stage, and so they know we're
not getting anywhere with it.
So moving on,
Rachel (23:11):
Yeah.
Katie (23:12):
which I guess is that nice thing about consistency
between grade 11 and 12.
Rachel (23:16):
I'm really excited to see where this goes this year
and see how they do on theirexams.
You know what, honestly let mejust say this about mastery
based learning.
I have students that I hadsemester one last year and I can
already see that they haveretained more content and more
knowledge from their year onecourse at this time of year than
(23:38):
any other past years that I'vetaught this course.
Katie (23:41):
And I think a lot of that comes down to, mastery means you
can't just study quickly beforea test and lose all that
information.
Rachel (23:49):
Like we, we started with chemical nomenclature, like
naming formulas, things likethat.
And that's sort of what we wereworking on last week.
Just reviewing all of that stufffrom grade 11, because that is
the language of chemistry andit's absolutely essential for
the rest of the course.
And I think out of Both classesI have, I have maybe two
(24:10):
students who are struggling withit.
And normally at this point inthe year, I would have, like, I
wouldn't know if I was doingthis traditionally and the way
I've taught it before in thepast, I wouldn't know until I
gave the evaluation that kidswere struggling with
nomenclature.
And then it might be...
Like, more like ten kids, nottwo.
Katie (24:30):
That is a pretty darn good way to start a semester.
Rachel (24:33):
yeah.
A few of them are even like, Ican't believe I still remember
this stuff.
I'm like, yeah, mastery basedlearning, eh?
Katie (24:41):
Yeah.
Rachel (24:41):
They're like, it's amazing.
Katie (24:43):
I think we'll have to do an update episode in the future
to hear how it's going.
Rachel (24:47):
Yes, for sure.
Katie (24:48):
But any advice you have, anywhere people can get started
if they're thinking aboutstandards based grading.
Rachel (24:55):
Yeah, I'm, well, I'm happy to share the, the one
resource from the talk I wentto, I believe that is posted on
the CAM Ed conference website.
So I'll find the link for thatand put that in the show notes.
And then I'm also happy to linkout some of the scales that I've
created so far.
So if you wanted to take a lookat it, you can and people can
(25:16):
always reach out in terms of aswell.
Like if, if you have questions,let us know,
Katie (25:21):
Well, thank you so much for sharing your journey this
year, and we look forward tohearing more.
Rachel (25:27):
Yeah.
So I guess on that note, we'llwrap up our conversation here
today.
And so we'll include any ofthose links or resources we
talked about here today in ourshow notes.
You can access our show notesfor this episode at edugals.
com slash 133.
That's edugals.
com slash 133.
Katie (25:47):
And if you like what you heard today, then feel free to
share it with a colleague or afriend.
And don't forget to subscribe onyour favorite podcast app so
that you don't miss out on anyfuture content.
Rachel (25:57):
And as always, we'd love to hear from you.
So if you have questions, if youhave ideas, or thoughts, or
anything on standards basedgrading, or what I'm trying to
do in my classroom this year,I'd love to hear them.
So you can go on to our flip atedugals.
com slash flipgrid and leave usa video message there.
(26:17):
Or you can go onto our websiteat edugals.
com and leave us a writtenresponse.
Katie (26:22):
Thanks for listening and see you next week!
In this episode we are shaking it up a bit and I am
going to be talking to Rachelabout what she is doing with
standards based grading in theclassroom.
Ha
Rachel (00:50):
I'll be sharing how my grading approach is shifting in
my classroom this year and whereI'm at right now and where I
hope to be.
Katie (00:59):
Let's get started.
Rachel (01:07):
This week, Katie and I are talking about grading and
uh, especially, I wanted toshare how my sort of grading
approach in my classroom ischanging and shifting this year
a little bit.
Katie (01:21):
Yeah, so I'm going to take the reins and I'm going to
be like quizzing her and gettingall of the details and figuring
out what's going on in herclassroom.
Rachel (01:29):
Now, a big disclaimer, like, I don't think I even know
all the details yet.
I just know that I wanted toshift things a little bit in
terms of, you know, I have IBclasses this year, and so I need
to come up with a little bitmore of an accurate, I guess,
understanding of where thestudents are lying.
(01:52):
based on the IB levels and theirwhole, their whole spiel because
I do have to predict grades andgive those to IB at some point
later in the school year.
And so I wanted to kind of shiftthings a little bit so that I
can hopefully get a really sortof accurate picture of where my
students are at.
Katie (02:10):
Yeah, so we've done a few episodes in the past that we can
link back to that talks about,you know, changing the way we're
grading, looking at the gradingscale et cetera.
So essentially that's whatRachel's doing here.
She's taking a standards basedgrading approach and adapting it
to the IB world, which is kindof exciting because you had, I
think this is for a grade 12course, right?
And you had them in grade 11.
Rachel (02:32):
Yes, and so it's been amazing in terms of starting
with this class again, because Ialready know all the students
and I don't think I've everexperienced that before ever in
my career.
So it's kind of cool.
But yeah, I had them all lastyear.
Now just to kind of remindeveryone, or if this is your
first time listening, I usedwhat's called a specs grading or
(02:54):
specifications grading approach.
So I had laid out my curriculumin terms of outcomes and then,
you know, very sort of brieflyset up how many outcomes they
needed for what sort of grade orlevel that they were going to
get in terms of their finalgrade for that course.
Now that was grade 11 and Thegrades don't really carry over
(03:15):
in their IB course for this yearand I kind of just really wanted
to take the stress off and makeit sort of a really enjoyable
place for us to get a good sortof solid foundation of chemistry
going into year two.
Katie (03:28):
and I think that's amazing, because then you've
kind of set them up.
They know it's not like yourtraditional classroom with
traditional grading practices.
and they know you as an educatorand what to expect.
So, I think you've kind of setit up in such a way where it's a
natural kind of environment for,for new ways of looking at
education.
And, and they're not going to beso taken aback or frightened or
(03:50):
scared about what they're goingto be doing.
Rachel (03:53):
Yeah, I've, I've already heard them saying lots of things
like, you know, chemistry is sorelaxing and you don't hear
those sort of things fromstudents normally.
Right?
Like they're um, they're soexcited about being in my class
again.
They're already super relaxed.
They already know the drillthere.
They love mastery basedlearning.
So it's, it's been just reallysort of nice to just be able to
(04:17):
get right into it with them.
Yeah.
Katie (04:19):
Okay, and so on that note, here's your first
question.
You ready?
Rachel (04:23):
I'm ready.
Katie (04:25):
So can you quickly define what standards based grading
means to you and how you'reusing that in an IB course?
Rachel (04:32):
So I guess kind of in a nutshell, like standards based
grading, if you were looking forany kind of different definition
is that you're grading studentsbased on the standards.
And so any sort of evaluation orthing that you do in your class
that is graded is all veryclosely tied and linked to the
(04:53):
curriculum.
Katie (04:54):
There we go.
I was going to say, you're usingthe word standard.
What does that mean?
Rachel (04:59):
well, standard learning outcome, you know, sort of
whatever that basic topic is,right, that you're, you want
your students to know and to beable to demonstrate mastery of.
Now, like, there's a lot moredetail in terms of standards
based grading, and like, if youdig into the research and do
reading about it or, you know,sort of really kind of deepen
(05:21):
your learning around there,there's, there's a ton.
in terms of what this is andwhat this means.
I did go to a really great talkat the ChemEd conference in the
summer and it got my wheelsspinning about how I want to do
my grading for my grade 12s.
And that's sort of where I'mgaining my inspiration from.
It was, it was a talk calledStandard Reference Grading in
(05:43):
Chemistry Classrooms by a coupleof educators from Missouri.
I, it works so nicely with specsgrading.
It's almost like the next stepup from that.
So it seemed like a naturalprogression to kind of take a
look at what they've done andadapt it to what I want to do in
my class.
Katie (06:00):
And so from kind of the learning I've done and we've
spoken about in the past, whenwe've looked at standards based,
it, it's kind of this idea of afour level system, but not in
the same way that we wouldtraditionally approach it.
So how does that kind oftransfer when you're looking at
the seven level system or markband of the IB world?
Rachel (06:21):
Yeah, that's it.
That's where I'm kind ofstruggling with a little bit to
be quite honest and So I amcreating some master.
I'm calling a mastery scales formy classes and the sort of four
Areas that or the four kind ofgrade bands that you would look
for I'm taking like the levelSeven and six is the top one And
(06:44):
then the level five and four isthe next one, and then a level
three is the next one, level twois the next one, and then level
one is like not having enoughevidence or not meeting the
criteria for a level two.
So I don't know if I love howI've divided it, but uh, I'm
gonna try it out and see how itworks really.
Katie (07:06):
Yeah, that's always the hard part.
Like how do you make one markingsystem fit in with.
One that you're kind of tied tobecause you are tied to the
seven level system, but
Rachel (07:14):
Yeah, I am tied to the seven level system, and I didn't
want to break down a masteryscale into seven different
levels.
Like, it seemed overkill.
Katie (07:23):
Yeah, I'd agree with that statement.
I do kind of like this idea oflike a four level system and
that breakdown
Rachel (07:30):
Now, in terms of what I got from, from that talk that I
went to over the summer, theyhad it broken down into four
levels and it's a little bitdifferent in terms of how they
created their scales.
They looked at, the skills ofbuilding up within a specific
topic.
So if we were looking at, forexample, chemical reactions,
(07:52):
they would go, okay, what is themost basic content that students
need to know to be able todemonstrate towards chemical
reactions and theirunderstanding of that topic?
And then the next level would bethen, okay, Layering on what are
now like the simple content thatgoes along with that.
Above that becomes the targetcontent and that's sort of what
(08:13):
they teach to.
in terms of where they want allof their students to land.
Is it that sort of like thatlevel three?
And then the level above thatwould be complex content.
So really getting into expandingtheir understanding of that
particular topic.
So I kind of took that, butwhat, like, what I really like
about this is that it's.
(08:34):
Taking almost like all of those,I guess, learning targets, or in
terms of an Ontario curriculum,it would be the specific
expectations and putting theminto a hierarchical order.
And I never really thought to dothat with standards based
grading.
Like, it never dawned on me todo that because every other
instance I've seen standardsbased grading, it's been
(08:57):
creating uh, So I that builds ona skill within the classroom.
And it's a scale that you canuse over and over again
throughout your semester ondifferent evaluations.
And I never really saw how Icould apply that to the
sciences, except for like labbased skills that we would go
over and over again.
But content, it was really hardto do that.
(09:18):
So I kind of like this becauseit's, It's taking content and
really sort of naming, like,where's the hierarchy?
How are, how are we building upthat understanding of that
particular content withinchemistry?
Katie (09:30):
I do kind of like how they've done that with the
content and and in some ways I'mlike, oh that actually is
logical because you know it kindof builds and the skills get
more complex as you go and soObviously for that unit or, or
whatever it is that you're,you're teaching, there is that
hierarchy of content that theyneed before they can get to that
next level.
So it does show that.
(09:50):
I do like the way they've laidthat out.
It's very clear and it's very, Idon't know, it's a different way
of approaching it.
Rachel (09:55):
It is.
So it's, like I said, it's, it'staking my, what I was doing with
specs grading, because what Iwas doing with specs grading
was, okay, here are my learningoutcomes.
Like here are the main topicswithin the course that we're
covering.
And now, instead of, you know,you've just.
Either demonstrated mastery onit or not, I'm now blowing up,
well what does mastery of thatcontent look like, and what
(10:18):
level, in terms of the IPcurriculum, does that equate to?
Katie (10:22):
and it's nice because even the way it's laid out, it's
still really clear as to thecontent you're covering and the
expectations you're covering.
And everything is includedthere.
And...
I do kind of like how clean thatis.
So it's not like, I mean, it'sstill kind of traditional, but
not at the same time, if thatmakes sense.
Rachel (10:38):
Yeah, and um, so, like, kind of talking about the
mastery scale that I'vedeveloped a little bit more and
how I would develop evaluationsaround it is there's still no
points grades on anything and Ithink that's that's really
important.
It's about demonstrating masteryof the skills at each of the
different levels.
So my level two.
(10:58):
is demonstrating mastery of, I,like, for example, for one that
I created, I have threedifferent sort of statements or,
or outcomes that I want to seefor that particular level.
And so they would have to beable to demonstrate mastery on
all three of those skills inorder to get a level two.
Katie (11:14):
So here's a question because it is, are you kind of
looking at like a check marksystem and the more that you can
do, the higher you are.
So do you share ahead of timethat level seven system and how
it aligns?
Rachel (11:28):
Oh, yeah, I have, I've, so I've only created two of
these so far for my course.
So just disclaimer, again, I'm,I'm only getting started with
this and I'm kind of, Justmuddling my way through as I'm
kind of developing this, butevery single mastery scale is
right there in bright space forthe students to see as they get
started with the module I'mcalling the modules that we're
(11:51):
learning.
Katie (11:51):
Yeah.
And.
In some ways I love that they'reseeing it because they know they
can't just skip to the very lastkind of highest standard, they
have to be able to actuallydemonstrate all the skills
leading up to it.
So, yeah, So, that is neat.
Okay.
Part of me at first was like,does that make sense?
Because if they know level 7,aren't they just going to gear
toward that and still be gradeskind of minded?
(12:13):
But, because you're saying youcan't get this until you've done
the rest.
Rachel (12:18):
So I have my, like my level 3, which is really an IBA
level 4 5, and then my level 4,which is an IBA level 6 7, I
have them divided out into sortof two, so I have a few
statements with those, but myexpectation there when I'm, I'm
looking at Well, is it a level 4or a level 5 is looking at the
(12:39):
mastery of those skills withinthat level.
Are they mastering just some ofthem or are they mastering all
of them?
And that's how I'm kind of usingthat to differentiate between a
level 4 and a level 5 in termsof IB.
Katie (12:52):
follow up question.
You ready?
Rachel (12:54):
Yes, I am.
Katie (12:55):
Is it possible for there to be overlap between modules in
terms of being able todemonstrate a skill or an
outcome?
So could there be anotheropportunity to demonstrate
mastery in a future module?
Rachel (13:07):
I think there is, with some of the ones, okay, so for
example, significant digits.
We do that.
Anytime we do calculations, theyneed to be able to demonstrate
that they understand significantdigits and how to report answers
to the correct number ofsignificant digits.
If you have no clue what I'mtalking about, don't worry about
(13:29):
it.
But um, it's a concept thatcomes up.
Over and over and over again inchemistry and in physics as
well.
And yeah, many other subjects,but that's one that I would
repopulate again on my masteryscales in terms of Evaluations
though and using this masteryscale like I am still doing
multiple opportunities.
(13:49):
I'm not getting rid of that.
I think that's fantastic So Iwill create, you know, whatever
evaluation I'm doing We'rekeeping this scale in mind and
then Students can attempt it.
I haven't decided if I want todo two or three times yet I
think I might still do three ifneeded But I'm gonna say sort of
(14:10):
to leave it at two and if theyreally need a third attempt Then
I will let them do that.
Katie (14:15):
And now if you have an overlapping skill module to
module, will you allow for thehighest demonstration of mark?
Or will it all be included?
Rachel (14:23):
I don't know.
I, I, I really don't know,actually, to be quite honest.
I think we'll, we'll sort of seehow it progresses over the
semester and, and looking atwhere those skills are.
Katie (14:34):
That makes sense.
Rachel (14:35):
I have no idea.
Katie (14:36):
Yeah, you don't have to.
This is me just thinking aloudand being like, Ooh, what about
this?
What about that?
Um, Due dates.
How is that going to look andsound in your classroom?
Rachel (14:46):
like any other classroom and any other year.
So in terms of like IB is verytest oriented.
So obviously the evaluations inthis course are going to be
tests because that's what I needto prepare my students for.
They write an exam, three papersat the end of this school year.
So like in May and It's worth 80percent of their grade.
(15:10):
So, of course, I'm, like,that's, those are the
evaluations that I'm doing.
And so, last year, with specsgrading, I, I had a system where
we always had a consistent testday every single week, and kids
love that, I love that, so Ithink that's going to continue.
It might get shifted by a weekor so depending on how long
we're in a learning module uh,so there might be weeks where we
(15:32):
kind of skip it, but It'spossible that we just kind of
keep that date set aside forSecond and third attempts to of
previous modules, so I don'tknow yeah, it's it's kind of
figuring it out as we go.
Katie (15:45):
And how are you going to be communicating with students?
Yes, tests.
That's great.
Are you going to do any sort ofconferencing to kind of help
them understand next steps?
Rachel (15:53):
Yeah, I was doing Conferencing last year at
midterm final reporting time.
That's definitely something thatI want to continue Because I'm
gonna end up having a level,like an IB level for every
single module that we do.
And the modules that I'm doing,like they're not traditional
units.
They are breaking down the unitsinto two or three key concepts.
(16:17):
So for example, inelectrochemistry, like I'm
breaking it down into twomodules, one about redox
reactions and one about like theelectrochemical cells and stuff
like that.
So they're kind of two differentsort of key concepts that we end
up learning within thatparticular course.
So I think that's, that I, I'mgoing to end up with quite a few
(16:37):
different levels.
And so I think what I'll do interms of conferencing for
midterm and final reportinggrades is like, okay, let's sit
down and let's look at how youdid level wise on all of these
different modules.
And we'll have the conversationthen around, okay, well, what.
level are we performing at andand where do we think we're at
at this moment in time?
Katie (16:58):
And so feedback how specific will feedback be as
you're going through?
Rachel (17:02):
Yeah in terms of their Like their tests and stuff like
that.
It'll be the same kind offeedback that I've been giving,
last year So the way I've I'vesort of taken This mastery scale
and then created an assessmentthat goes with it is I've taken
every single one of thosestatements and I've Laid it out
So like all the level two stuffis first then the level three
(17:24):
then the four five and then thesix seven so building up The
skills through it.
So it is kind of all divvied outin terms of where they need to
demonstrate certain pieces ofknowledge So that is a little
bit different in terms of howI'm laying it out It doesn't
really affect the content of atest, like, it's still the same
content I would have given, I'mjust laying it out a bit
differently, and then for eachone of those, like, targets or
(17:47):
learning outcomes or whatever,I'll either say they've mastered
it or they need to revise, andMy students know that if I say
no, they need to revise, likethat they need to first go and
try and do corrections on theirown first.
And then they come and talk tome and we have a conversation
and go over and reteach orwhatever we need to do for
(18:09):
whatever ones that they're notmastering.
So it's, it's a lot of like oneon one conversations that happen
with that feedback, which I, Iactually prefer.
I don't actually give a lot ofwritten feedback on tests
because I want them taking thatinitiative and, and those steps
to figure out what's notworking.
Katie (18:27):
No, that makes a lot of sense.
Um, What does mastery mean?
Is that like your level 5, 6?
Is that what your kind of basestandard is?
Are you looking at the 7?
What's mastery?
Rachel (18:35):
Mastery for me, and this, this can change for any
sort of, like for, for everyone,so it's very individual what you
think mastery is.
For mastery for me, I would saygetting 80 percent or greater.
on a particular section,learning outcome, whatever it
is, that that is mastery for me.
Like they are on their way tomastery.
(18:56):
Uh, You know, it allows for afew little errors and stuff like
that.
And that's okay.
Cause everyone makes, you know,silly mistakes.
Katie (19:03):
So essentially they have to Sorry, I'm wrapping my head
around it all because the wayyou have your rubrics lined out
is essentially that content orthose concepts and so they have
to master each concept to moveup the levels.
Rachel (19:14):
Yeah.
So they have to demonstratemastery on, on all of those
concepts.
Like if they want a level seven,they have to demonstrate mastery
on all of the outcomes in thatmastery scale.
Katie (19:23):
I like this even more now, now that I'm actually
understanding.
I love that because then it's,you're making sure mastery of
every one of those conceptsbecause that moves forward into
future success.
Rachel (19:35):
And that's what specs grading did, right?
Like specs grading was you, youeither demonstrate mastery on
it.
So you're passing that outcomeor you're not.
Katie (19:43):
Yeah.
Rachel (19:44):
So this is just taking that specs grading and blowing
it up and, and laying it out, Iguess, in a little bit more of a
hierarchical kind of order.
Katie (19:52):
And it's really breaking down the concepts that they need
to know, which is nice.
And I think it makes it...
easier for them to see andunderstand what they're
learning.
Rachel (20:01):
now it is kind of taking a step away from ungrading, I
guess, in a way, because it isnow equating it to a level, but
it's still not equating it to apercentage grade.
And it's still, you know, like,it's still There's no points
grades.
So, and there are multipleopportunities.
So I think those things arestill going to help take away
(20:24):
some of the stress around gradesand the grade grubbing and, and
all of those sort of piecesbecause the onus is on them,
right, to demonstrate thatmastery of the learning.
Katie (20:34):
Would it be worth considering not showing how
those standards, the standardsbased system translate to IB
levels?
Rachel (20:42):
I thought about that, but I think You know, the grade
12s, they, they do stress aboutwhat level they're at.
And with specs grading, I stillhad an equation, like I had a
grade conversion chart where Isaid, if you pass this many
outcomes, this is a level seven.
If you pass this many outcomes,it's a level six.
So I did still have that, sortof a table where, where students
(21:06):
could see where they're lying.
Like, I think they still needthat information, right?
Katie (21:10):
Part of me wonders if it's worth for like the first
module not showing them and thenas, I know, I know, and then
kind of gearing towards it asthose stress levels are raising,
But I get that.
I also kind of like thetransparency as well.
It's kind of this, you'll haveto let me know how that goes,
because part of me is torn inthat it does end up translating
to a grade and there is thereare many charts that can tell
(21:33):
them what that level would looklike in terms of a percentage.
Rachel (21:36):
Yeah, they did have, like I said, they did have that
information last year though,too.
It was just equating thoselevels and those grades to in a
different way.
So I don't think it's far off ofwhat I was doing.
I think it's more kind of layingout, okay, what are the things
that you need to demonstratemastery on in, within this
particular module in order foryou to get those levels?
Katie (21:59):
Is there anything you're not certain about or
questioning?
Rachel (22:02):
Well, I am questioning how my students are going to
take this.
Katie (22:08):
The human factor is always something we can't
control.
Rachel (22:13):
You know, I always start out the school year, and we're
recording this a bit earlierthan when the episode's coming
out, so we're only just kind ofgetting into our school year
right now.
But, you know, I always startout the school year not talking
about grades.
And it's kind of nice like thisgroup of students, they're
trained not to even ask me aboutgrades now, which is fantastic,
(22:33):
right?
They, uh, the only kind ofquestions I got were, are we
still doing things the same waywe did last year?
And I'm like, yeah, yeah, likestill mastery based learning.
And you know, the grading'smaybe slightly different, but
you know, we'll talk aboutgrades when we get to it.
Katie (22:50):
Nice.
Rachel (22:50):
And that was it.
That was the end of theconversation.
Katie (22:53):
a fabulous conversation.
Rachel (22:54):
It is.
It's, it's just, it'srefreshing.
I think, and, and like I said,you know, I've had these kids
before, so it's really kind ofcool that they, they just know
there's no point in having thatconversation right now.
Katie (23:06):
Yeah, you have set the stage, and so they know we're
not getting anywhere with it.
So moving on,
Rachel (23:11):
Yeah.
Katie (23:12):
which I guess is that nice thing about consistency
between grade 11 and 12.
Rachel (23:16):
I'm really excited to see where this goes this year
and see how they do on theirexams.
You know what, honestly let mejust say this about mastery
based learning.
I have students that I hadsemester one last year and I can
already see that they haveretained more content and more
knowledge from their year onecourse at this time of year than
(23:38):
any other past years that I'vetaught this course.
Katie (23:41):
And I think a lot of that comes down to, mastery means you
can't just study quickly beforea test and lose all that
information.
Rachel (23:49):
Like we, we started with chemical nomenclature, like
naming formulas, things likethat.
And that's sort of what we wereworking on last week.
Just reviewing all of that stufffrom grade 11, because that is
the language of chemistry andit's absolutely essential for
the rest of the course.
And I think out of Both classesI have, I have maybe two
(24:10):
students who are struggling withit.
And normally at this point inthe year, I would have, like, I
wouldn't know if I was doingthis traditionally and the way
I've taught it before in thepast, I wouldn't know until I
gave the evaluation that kidswere struggling with
nomenclature.
And then it might be...
Like, more like ten kids, nottwo.
Katie (24:30):
That is a pretty darn good way to start a semester.
Rachel (24:33):
yeah.
A few of them are even like, Ican't believe I still remember
this stuff.
I'm like, yeah, mastery basedlearning, eh?
Katie (24:41):
Yeah.
Rachel (24:41):
They're like, it's amazing.
Katie (24:43):
I think we'll have to do an update episode in the future
to hear how it's going.
Rachel (24:47):
Yes, for sure.
Katie (24:48):
But any advice you have, anywhere people can get started
if they're thinking aboutstandards based grading.
Rachel (24:55):
Yeah, I'm, well, I'm happy to share the, the one
resource from the talk I wentto, I believe that is posted on
the CAM Ed conference website.
So I'll find the link for thatand put that in the show notes.
And then I'm also happy to linkout some of the scales that I've
created so far.
So if you wanted to take a lookat it, you can and people can
(25:16):
always reach out in terms of aswell.
Like if, if you have questions,let us know,
Katie (25:21):
Well, thank you so much for sharing your journey this
year, and we look forward tohearing more.
Rachel (25:27):
Yeah.
So I guess on that note, we'llwrap up our conversation here
today.
And so we'll include any ofthose links or resources we
talked about here today in ourshow notes.
You can access our show notesfor this episode at edugals.
com slash 133.
That's edugals.
com slash 133.
Katie (25:47):
And if you like what you heard today, then feel free to
share it with a colleague or afriend.
And don't forget to subscribe onyour favorite podcast app so
that you don't miss out on anyfuture content.
Rachel (25:57):
And as always, we'd love to hear from you.
So if you have questions, if youhave ideas, or thoughts, or
anything on standards basedgrading, or what I'm trying to
do in my classroom this year,I'd love to hear them.
So you can go on to our flip atedugals.
com slash flipgrid and leave usa video message there.
(26:17):
Or you can go onto our websiteat edugals.
com and leave us a writtenresponse.
Katie (26:22):
Thanks for listening and see you next week!
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.