October 7, 2024 • 27 mins
Apostle Tony Wade joins us for a crucial conversation about safeguarding the body of Christ against the tide of false doctrines. Promising to untangle the complex challenges facing believers today, we tackle instances of misinterpretations like the relationship between Naomi and Ruth, underscoring the essential need for a strong, Bible-based foundation within church communities. Apostle Wade offers invaluable insights on how mature faith is key to resisting deception and why believers must adeptly navigate the scriptures to uphold their spiritual integrity.
Amidst a world teeming with diverse and sometimes misleading teachings, we highlight the importance of being rooted in scripture and aligning with a church that prioritizes Christ's teachings over cultural conformity. Drawing from biblical references like Matthew 24 and Timothy, we emphasize discernment, especially in these critical times. We also encourage believers to scrutinize their spiritual leaders and environments, ensuring their growth as true disciples of Christ. As leaders, our unwavering commitment is to nurture spiritual development within our congregations, steering clear of the temptation to prioritize numbers over biblical truth.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:26):
Well, hello everybody .
Welcome to the Effective PrayerStrategies podcast, where we're
giving you tools for aneffective prayer life, and today
we have a special guest again.
He's been on the podcast beforeand he's one of my favorite
people my husband, none otherthan the Apostle Tony Wade.
So welcome to the podcast onceagain.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I'm so honored to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
So today we're going to be having some conversations
around what's happening in thebody of Christ and the different
types of doctrine, or the newdoctrine that's circulating
around social media, variousteachings that are going out,
(01:13):
and we're concerned as anapostle and as a prophetess, we
are very concerned about thestate of the body of Christ and
so we're going to tell someconversations.
We're going to talk about, youknow, some of these doctrines
and we're going to talk aboutyou know what the word has to
(01:33):
say about this day and age thatwe're living in, these times
that we're living in, and howare we going to navigate these
different doctrines, these newteachings that are out there.
That is contrary against theword of God.
So, apostle, give us somethoughts concerning the new
(01:53):
doctrine.
I'll just set it up.
I heard of a doctrine thatsomeone was teaching recently
that stated that Naomi and Ruthwere lovers, that stated that
Naomi and Ruth were lovers, thatNaomi and Ruth were actually
lovers and that they were not um, you know it wasn't a mentee,
mentor type relationship, uh,and I was so grieved in my
(02:17):
spirit when I heard that.
So I don't know what type ofconference this was, but I do
know there were people in theaudience.
It was a live platform, andwhen the person commenced to say
what he was saying that Naomiand Ruth were lovers the
audience began to amen what thisperson was saying.
(02:39):
So that really grieved my heart, because I realized that this
person was in front of a lot ofpeople who did not know their
Bible, who didn't understand theword of God or didn't know the
scriptures concerning Ruth andNaomi, and so there are other
type of doctrines that's goingon that we won't really get into
, but the reality of it is iswe're in that day, we're in that
(03:00):
hour where there's going to bea lot of false teachings.
The Bible says it, so I'd loveto get your take on where we are
, the state of the local church,and where we are as a body of
Christ.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Well, we're in the day that Jesus said we would be.
In One of the scriptures, inMatthew, chapter 24, jesus said
the signs of the last days wouldbe.
One of them would be deception.
And also in Jude, he tells us.
The word of God tells us thatwe are to contend for the faith
(03:37):
that was once delivered on tothe saints and that many that
came out from us.
They are going out bringingabout all of these false
doctrines, these heresies.
But also what needs to happenis the fivefold ministry gifts
(03:59):
that Jesus has given to hischurch need to equip the church
with truth.
They need to equip the saintsto do the work of the ministry
and edify the body of Christ.
But the key part is that we beno more children tossed to and
fro with every wind and doctrineand the cunning craftiness.
(04:19):
So there's a lot of cunningness, there's a lot of craftiness.
There's a lot of deception.
But it's a lot of craftiness,there's a lot of deception, but
it's hard to be deceived whenyou're mature.
It's hard to be deceived whenyou know and understand the word
of God.
Well, we're now in a day where alot of people they don't
believe in submission, authority, accountability to true
(04:44):
spiritual leaders.
So a Bible-based church.
A lot of times, what hashappened?
A lot of people have began tojoin churches for different
reasons.
The choir was good, the worshipis good, my friend is there, or
it's the new hot thing but wedon't listen to the word of God.
The main entree is the word ofGod, what you're being taught,
(05:08):
what is challenging you to beconformed to the image of Christ
.
And so the Bible tells us thosethat are planted in the house
of the Lord shall flourish.
And so, because we don't havetrue accountability in the body
of Christ, good, strongspiritual leaders, deception
(05:31):
becomes rampant.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Wow.
So we're going to dig a littlebit deeper into what you just
said about rightly dividing theword of truth.
Yes, because that is thebeginning of deception when you
don't know the word, when youdon't understand the word of God
, you don't know how to rightlydivide the word of truth.
Because there are so manybabies in the body of Christ
(05:54):
that don't know how to dividethe word of truth.
They don't know how to unpackthe scripture.
Plus, they don't go to a churchwhere unpacking the scripture
is priority, and so let's talkabout what does that mean?
So if someone is listening tothis podcast and they don't know
(06:15):
that they're not, all they knowis I got saved and I'm at a
church, so they don't know thatthey are not getting the
substance or not getting thetools to be able to rightly
divide the word of truth, forinstance.
For instance, I had um.
I saw a video, and this video,um, was a video of a young
(06:38):
person who just got saved, andthey had great influence in the
world, right?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
So they had great influence in the world right, oh
my god so they had greatinfluence in the world.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Then they get saved and get baptized and it's very
public, so people know aboutthis person's transformation.
But there was a video that shedid and she did an interview and
on that interview she wasdressed very provocatively and
so on the interview she says youknow, I have on this, I have on
(07:07):
this short skirt, I have mylittle thigh out, I have this,
and it doesn't matter becausethis is between my relationship
with God, jesus and Holy Spirit.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
That's not correct.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
So what this tells me is is that she's a new believer
.
Maybe she doesn't have anybodyin her life to help her
understand.
There should be a differencebetween when you got saved and
what you should look like on theother side of your salvation.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Well, I think the biggest problem has been we have
allowed the world to bleed intothe church.
We have allowed the world tobleed into the church.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Come on now.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
And so we begin to dilute what it means to be a
part of the body of Christ.
It's a body, and so, part ofbeing in the body, discipleship
should take place.
You're in community, so beingin discipleship, being in
community, there'saccountability, there's
(08:06):
followership.
So to be a follower of Christ,a disciple, means you're a
learner and a follower.
So that means someone that hasbeen in the faith for a while,
who has the fruit of the faith.
Yes, they're walking youthrough, they're teaching you
the do's and the don'ts, how tonavigate being a believer of
(08:27):
Jesus Christ, because salvationis just step one in our journey
with the Lord.
You get born again and you'resaved, but now you got to learn
how to live saved.
That's for anything.
If you join a gang, you got tolearn how to be a gang member.
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
If you get a new job, you get a new job.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
You got to learn the culture.
You got to learn how to operateon that job.
That's good.
If you become an airline pilot,you go to your trainings, but
then you got to learn how to flyand do all of those things Well
, discipleship is a missingpiece.
There was someone in ourcongregation that I called them
(09:08):
on yesterday and I said to themI don't like what I saw on you
Sunday.
What's going on?
This is what I see.
That's accountability, that'shelping them to be accountable.
Help them to grow and theybegin to open up with me and I
begin to give them someinstruction, because that is
(09:30):
what the body of Christ is about.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
So what about those who are in a megachurch, who
don't necessarily have a leaderwho can look in their eyes,
because there's thousands ofthem?
And so thus the importance ofhave somebody who you can be
accountable to, a disciple,somebody who can disciple you,
somebody who can call youaccountable, somebody who can
(09:54):
really be honest with you andlook at you and say you know,
you're not looking right, areyou okay?
So that was just the point thatI wanted to make.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Well, the point is this it doesn't matter whether
you're a mega church or a churchof five people, 10 people or a
hundred thousand people.
It's about the culture of whatthe body of Christ is.
It should be a discipleshipculture.
So, even if the pastor cannotsee everyone, the church has
(10:24):
created a culture to nurture anddevelop people, and that is
what the reality of what walkingin Christ is all about.
That's right, and so I justhappened, because that's just
how I am.
I'm always looking at the flock, I'm always wanting to know the
(10:46):
state of the flock, which theBible commands us.
And then we have createdsystems that help us to nurture
and disciple and watch forpeople.
But people have to also wantthat.
That's exactly right, becausewhat has happened?
We have created a churchculture.
(11:06):
That's just about.
Just give me a quick word, onehour service and I'm in and out.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
So the body of Christ has basically transitioned into
this quick culture wherethere's no accountability.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
It's culture Christianity.
It's not Bible Christianity.
Bible Christianity we do lifetogether, we walk together.
We hold each other accountable.
Just like you know, youremember we did a series called
Don't Judge Me.
So you get a lot of believers.
Ain't nobody supposed to judgeme, but God.
(11:42):
That is not what the Bibleteaches.
The Bible tells us that if youhave one in your fellowship,
that if you have a brother orsister that is a fornicator,
that is an adulterer, a liar inother words, they practice in
sin and you go to them and theydon't want to repent, you're
supposed to isolate them out ofyour fellowship so they can see
(12:04):
I'm out of order, so they cancome back into order.
If they don't choose to comeback into order, they're
supposed to be isolated outsideso it can keep shining a light
on them that I'm not doing whatis right.
That's Bible Christianity.
That's Bible Christianity thatwe are to judge.
We's Bible Christianity that weare to judge.
We are to judge.
We are to judge those that arein.
(12:26):
We're not to judge those thatare out.
We're not to judge the worldbecause the Bible said they are
already condemned, they arealready guilty, but we're to
judge our own and because wehave not subscribed to the Bible
and we have allowed thismotivational, speaking,
(12:47):
inspirational Inspirational makeme feel good crowd drawing type
of.
We try to call it Christianity,but it's not.
It's a cultural Christianity.
It's not Bible Christianity,it's a cultural Christianity,
it's not Bible Christianity.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Now, we're beginning to reap the harvest of what the
church has sown for the last 20years, and so it's important to
understand that.
The inspiration on Sundaymornings, you know, that's fine
and dandy, but you have tobalance that and go deeper in
your study of the scriptureBecause, yes, you need, you know
, leave church feeling good,repent, get everything together
on Sundays, but when you leavechurch, you need to be able to
(13:32):
go deeper so that you can grow,so you can develop, so that you
can be discipled, you know, sothat you can go and disciple
someone else, you know, so thatyou can go and disciple someone
else, instead of living off onehigh, off another high, from
Sunday to Sunday and neverreally going deeper.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
You never grow in your relationship with God, you
never become a disciple ofChrist and Jesus.
He talked about it throughoutthe scriptures in the gospel If
any man come after me, let himdeny himself, take up his cross
and follow me.
If anyone going to be mydisciple, he must hate his own
(14:12):
life.
He must hate mother and father.
Was he saying, hate them.
He's saying in comparison to meand following me, it'll feel
like hate.
When you're going to choose tofollow me, you're going to have
to kill and get rid of thesethings in order to be the
follower that I am requiring,anything that'll come in between
my in between relationship withme and my word and what I said,
(14:37):
because his standard is veryhigh, but because when the
church growth movement came in,everybody want to grow their
church.
So to grow their church, you nowgot to begin to cater, to flesh
cater, to seeker friendly cater, to unbelievers.
(14:59):
Instead of Holy Spirit drawingpeople, our systems draw people.
So instead of us makingdisciples of Christ, we're
making disciples of culture anddisciples of man.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
So the church is not preaching on the hard subjects
such as sin.
They're not teaching the Bible.
Subjects such as sin, they'renot teaching the Bible.
So basically, in order to keepthe crowds coming.
And so it's producing a churchfilled with immature people.
Or, if they're Christians atall, right, because you can go
(15:35):
and get inspired and never beinspired to come to Christ and
lay down your old life.
But the ones who are in thatpredicament or under that type
of teaching or influence are thevery ones who are going to be
easily deceived.
Those are people who would beeasily deceived, easily take the
(15:58):
mark of the beast which we'revastly approaching, that season
where you know there's going tobe more pressure on the church.
And so, with these falsedoctrines coming in, the
deception is coming in thechurch.
The Bible talks about over inJude I believe it was Jude, you
mentioned early in Jude how weshould contend for the faith and
(16:19):
it talks about how thesecertain people creeped in.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Unnoticed.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Unnoticed.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
In other words, we ain't been paying attention to
them.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
So the gatekeepers were not doing their job.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
They were not active.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
They weren't listening to the messages that
was going forward.
They weren't.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
They're not calling out things that need to be
called out.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Exactly.
The generals of the faith arenot standing up and tapping
people on the shoulder andsaying you're off on this hyper
grace message.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
That is not.
That's not the grace of God.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
That's not God's grace.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
You twisted the scriptures, you twisted a truth
which we talk about.
This all the time.
There are great men of god thatwe used to follow that we no
longer listen to.
Right, they're off.
They're off.
They're off in their teaching.
It's no longer biblicaldoctrine.
They'll be.
They've.
They've given over to theculture and we respect them
(17:17):
highly.
We love them.
They are brothers and sistersin Christ.
They are our colleagues.
But your doctrine has nowbecome leavened.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Last days there are going to be many who fall or
many who are deceived because ofthe itching ears and the
doctrines of devils are going tobe so prominent.
(17:51):
And the thing is is thatbecause people are not
accustomed to truth, thedoctrines of devils does not
seem like anything's wrong withit.
You can be easily deceived.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
When you think about this, the Secret Service are
responsible for investigatingcounterfeit bills, but when they
go and Find out and study andhow they're able to recognize a
counterfeit bill, they don'tstudy false bills, they study
(18:26):
real bills.
So they are so in tune withwhat is real that fake
automatically stands out.
So what has happened is peopledon't stay in the word of God
and engulf themselves in truth.
They go and pick all thesedifferent things and they put
(18:47):
all these things in theirspiritual mouth.
So now your foundation wasconfusion.
You didn't start a foundationof strictly truth because you
weren't just a Bible person.
You love to listen to everybody, regardless of what they say.
Very dangerous, very dangerous.
And then this is another bigthing that we have allowed to
(19:10):
happen.
Into the body of Christ, theBible says lay hands suddenly on
no man and be not a partake oftheir sins.
So what he's saying is don't bequick to release someone into
their spiritual authoritywithout them being proven,
(19:30):
because now you release them,you're giving them influence,
you're giving them authority andnow you're becoming a partaker
with their sins, because nowthey're causing shipwreck of
many people's faith.
And that's one of the thingsthat social media has done.
It has given people access andthey have influence with their
(19:51):
voice and they don't deserveinfluence because there's no one
holding them accountable towhat they're teaching and
preaching.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Absolutely, I agree wholeheartedly.
And so, going back to therightly dividing the word of
truth, what do you recommend fora new believer and how do they
rightly divide the word of truth?
I know for us when we first gotborn again, we read the word
that was our primary.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
That's the main foundational thing read the word
.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
That was our primary.
That's the main foundationalthing.
And then we will couple thatwith um proven generals who had
written books, such as kennethhagan.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Uh, I highly recommend his books he has
amazing he has foundationalteachings that will help give
you a foundation in yoursalvation in terms of writing a
divine well, I think the mainthing for a baby believer is
they need to find a maturebeliever that has the fruit of
(20:50):
Christ in their life, that theywalk it, how they talk it and
ask them to disciple them.
That's good.
Instead of them trying tofigure it out by themselves,
they need to see someone thatthey like what they see in their
life and say can you help megrow in my relationship with God
(21:12):
Along with being a part of astrong local church?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Absolutely, church Absolutely, and that way someone
is helping you navigate theprocess and you're not just
figuring it out on your own.
Amen, that's good.
What else would you like to add?
Any scripture, anything youwould like to add to give the
people who are watching this anidea of how to navigate this
(21:43):
world that's filled with so manydoctrines, so many teachings
other than what you just said.
I think those two things weregreat Strong church and great
discipleship.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Yeah, I mean scriptures like Matthew 24,
where Jesus is talking aboutsigns of the last day, is
deception.
First, timothy 4, second, whereall of Timothy yes.
Chapter one and two and all ofPeter and Jude.
Jude and Timothy and Peter arebasically the same type of
(22:22):
writings that you're going tohear and they deal with
deception all the time and partof the last day church, we're
contending against deception.
So those books Revelations 21and 8, when he talked about the
cowardly, the abominable all ofthese people are going to be
(22:46):
cast into the lake of fire.
So I encourage you to surroundyourself with people that don't
compromise, not being verysensitive believers that if you
try to correct them, they easilyoffend it.
If you're around those type ofpeople that call themselves that
(23:10):
type of believer, what is goingto happen is it's going to
weaken you because they havegotten engulfed in the culture.
Any preachers that you hear thatare trying to stimulate your
ears and it doesn't challengeyou to bear the fruit of Christ,
(23:31):
they are a cultural Christian.
They are a cultural preacher.
So all of these type of thingsyou have to be aware of and you
need to evaluate the church thatyou are part of.
What is your pastor, yourapostle, your prophet is?
Whatever their title is, whatare they teaching?
(23:53):
Are they challenging you to bea follower, a true disciple, of
Christ, or are they stimulatingyour feelings, your emotions,
your gift things?
And we believe in all the gifts, we believe in the prophetic,
we believe in the apostolic, webelieve in all of those things.
But more than anything, weshould be like Jesus, we should
(24:15):
be his church that the gates ofhell would not prevail against
his church that the gates ofhell would not prevail against.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
And so, you know, as pastors, apostle and I, we feel
like we are.
You know, we always want ourchurch to grow, but we made a
decision that we don't want ourchurch to grow at the expense of
souls being at risk of going tohell because we refuse to teach
truth.
We were because we refuse to,uh, tell people what God does,
says the Lord.
So we have made a decision thatthat's not going to be our case
(24:52):
.
We're going to want, we wantpeople to grow, develop in their
relationship with Christ.
Our goal is that all peoplehear well done.
We want to hear well done, andwe want our congregation to hear
well done.
And so I brought this podcastto you today, because we feel
like we are voices in this lastday.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Amen.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
And that we have a mandate from God to be
gatekeepers for the body ofChrist, to be gatekeepers for
the body of Christ, to speak outagainst the injustices of our
society and to bring truth toGod's people.
So we just wanted to make surethat you are aware today, and
that we give you these tools tohelp you understand that there's
(25:33):
a great deception that's goingto happen.
The Bible says that there'sgoing to be a great falling away
.
In other words, that there'sgoing to be a great falling away
.
In other words, there's goingto be a time where so many
believers turn away from thefaith.
There is going to be, and thattime is coming upon us even now.
And so it's imperative that youwork on your foundation, make
(25:57):
sure your foundation is sure,because the Bible says that if
your foundation is built on sand, when the winds and the storms
come, great is going to be thefall of that building and so.
But if your foundation is on astrong, steady foundation, when
the storms come and the testscome for you to deny Christ,
(26:21):
then you'll be able to stand,having done all stand.
And so we just wanted to bringthat truth to you today.
We pray that this has blessedyou this podcast and we'd love
to hear from you.
So be sure to comment, let usknow what your thoughts are, and
if you have any questionsconcerning these false doctrines
that are out here falseteachings we'll be glad to help
(26:43):
you where we can.
So God bless you all.
We'll see you next time here onEffective Prayer Strategies
podcast.
Thank you.
Well, hello everybody .
Welcome to the Effective PrayerStrategies podcast, where we're
giving you tools for aneffective prayer life, and today
we have a special guest again.
He's been on the podcast beforeand he's one of my favorite
people my husband, none otherthan the Apostle Tony Wade.
So welcome to the podcast onceagain.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I'm so honored to be here.
Speaker 1 (00:52):
So today we're going to be having some conversations
around what's happening in thebody of Christ and the different
types of doctrine, or the newdoctrine that's circulating
around social media, variousteachings that are going out,
(01:13):
and we're concerned as anapostle and as a prophetess, we
are very concerned about thestate of the body of Christ and
so we're going to tell someconversations.
We're going to talk about, youknow, some of these doctrines
and we're going to talk aboutyou know what the word has to
(01:33):
say about this day and age thatwe're living in, these times
that we're living in, and howare we going to navigate these
different doctrines, these newteachings that are out there.
That is contrary against theword of God.
So, apostle, give us somethoughts concerning the new
(01:53):
doctrine.
I'll just set it up.
I heard of a doctrine thatsomeone was teaching recently
that stated that Naomi and Ruthwere lovers, that stated that
Naomi and Ruth were lovers, thatNaomi and Ruth were actually
lovers and that they were not um, you know it wasn't a mentee,
mentor type relationship, uh,and I was so grieved in my
(02:17):
spirit when I heard that.
So I don't know what type ofconference this was, but I do
know there were people in theaudience.
It was a live platform, andwhen the person commenced to say
what he was saying that Naomiand Ruth were lovers the
audience began to amen what thisperson was saying.
(02:39):
So that really grieved my heart, because I realized that this
person was in front of a lot ofpeople who did not know their
Bible, who didn't understand theword of God or didn't know the
scriptures concerning Ruth andNaomi, and so there are other
type of doctrines that's goingon that we won't really get into
, but the reality of it is iswe're in that day, we're in that
(03:00):
hour where there's going to bea lot of false teachings.
The Bible says it, so I'd loveto get your take on where we are
, the state of the local church,and where we are as a body of
Christ.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
Well, we're in the day that Jesus said we would be.
In One of the scriptures, inMatthew, chapter 24, jesus said
the signs of the last days wouldbe.
One of them would be deception.
And also in Jude, he tells us.
The word of God tells us thatwe are to contend for the faith
(03:37):
that was once delivered on tothe saints and that many that
came out from us.
They are going out bringingabout all of these false
doctrines, these heresies.
But also what needs to happenis the fivefold ministry gifts
(03:59):
that Jesus has given to hischurch need to equip the church
with truth.
They need to equip the saintsto do the work of the ministry
and edify the body of Christ.
But the key part is that we beno more children tossed to and
fro with every wind and doctrineand the cunning craftiness.
(04:19):
So there's a lot of cunningness, there's a lot of craftiness.
There's a lot of deception.
But it's a lot of craftiness,there's a lot of deception, but
it's hard to be deceived whenyou're mature.
It's hard to be deceived whenyou know and understand the word
of God.
Well, we're now in a day where alot of people they don't
believe in submission, authority, accountability to true
(04:44):
spiritual leaders.
So a Bible-based church.
A lot of times, what hashappened?
A lot of people have began tojoin churches for different
reasons.
The choir was good, the worshipis good, my friend is there, or
it's the new hot thing but wedon't listen to the word of God.
The main entree is the word ofGod, what you're being taught,
(05:08):
what is challenging you to beconformed to the image of Christ
.
And so the Bible tells us thosethat are planted in the house
of the Lord shall flourish.
And so, because we don't havetrue accountability in the body
of Christ, good, strongspiritual leaders, deception
(05:31):
becomes rampant.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Wow.
So we're going to dig a littlebit deeper into what you just
said about rightly dividing theword of truth.
Yes, because that is thebeginning of deception when you
don't know the word, when youdon't understand the word of God
, you don't know how to rightlydivide the word of truth.
Because there are so manybabies in the body of Christ
(05:54):
that don't know how to dividethe word of truth.
They don't know how to unpackthe scripture.
Plus, they don't go to a churchwhere unpacking the scripture
is priority, and so let's talkabout what does that mean?
So if someone is listening tothis podcast and they don't know
(06:15):
that they're not, all they knowis I got saved and I'm at a
church, so they don't know thatthey are not getting the
substance or not getting thetools to be able to rightly
divide the word of truth, forinstance.
For instance, I had um.
I saw a video, and this video,um, was a video of a young
(06:38):
person who just got saved, andthey had great influence in the
world, right?
Speaker 2 (06:43):
So they had great influence in the world right, oh
my god so they had greatinfluence in the world.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
Then they get saved and get baptized and it's very
public, so people know aboutthis person's transformation.
But there was a video that shedid and she did an interview and
on that interview she wasdressed very provocatively and
so on the interview she says youknow, I have on this, I have on
(07:07):
this short skirt, I have mylittle thigh out, I have this,
and it doesn't matter becausethis is between my relationship
with God, jesus and Holy Spirit.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
That's not correct.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
So what this tells me is is that she's a new believer
.
Maybe she doesn't have anybodyin her life to help her
understand.
There should be a differencebetween when you got saved and
what you should look like on theother side of your salvation.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Well, I think the biggest problem has been we have
allowed the world to bleed intothe church.
We have allowed the world tobleed into the church.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
Come on now.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
And so we begin to dilute what it means to be a
part of the body of Christ.
It's a body, and so, part ofbeing in the body, discipleship
should take place.
You're in community, so beingin discipleship, being in
community, there'saccountability, there's
(08:06):
followership.
So to be a follower of Christ,a disciple, means you're a
learner and a follower.
So that means someone that hasbeen in the faith for a while,
who has the fruit of the faith.
Yes, they're walking youthrough, they're teaching you
the do's and the don'ts, how tonavigate being a believer of
(08:27):
Jesus Christ, because salvationis just step one in our journey
with the Lord.
You get born again and you'resaved, but now you got to learn
how to live saved.
That's for anything.
If you join a gang, you got tolearn how to be a gang member.
Right.
Speaker 1 (08:46):
If you get a new job, you get a new job.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
You got to learn the culture.
You got to learn how to operateon that job.
That's good.
If you become an airline pilot,you go to your trainings, but
then you got to learn how to flyand do all of those things Well
, discipleship is a missingpiece.
There was someone in ourcongregation that I called them
(09:08):
on yesterday and I said to themI don't like what I saw on you
Sunday.
What's going on?
This is what I see.
That's accountability, that'shelping them to be accountable.
Help them to grow and theybegin to open up with me and I
begin to give them someinstruction, because that is
(09:30):
what the body of Christ is about.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
So what about those who are in a megachurch, who
don't necessarily have a leaderwho can look in their eyes,
because there's thousands ofthem?
And so thus the importance ofhave somebody who you can be
accountable to, a disciple,somebody who can disciple you,
somebody who can call youaccountable, somebody who can
(09:54):
really be honest with you andlook at you and say you know,
you're not looking right, areyou okay?
So that was just the point thatI wanted to make.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
Well, the point is this it doesn't matter whether
you're a mega church or a churchof five people, 10 people or a
hundred thousand people.
It's about the culture of whatthe body of Christ is.
It should be a discipleshipculture.
So, even if the pastor cannotsee everyone, the church has
(10:24):
created a culture to nurture anddevelop people, and that is
what the reality of what walkingin Christ is all about.
That's right, and so I justhappened, because that's just
how I am.
I'm always looking at the flock, I'm always wanting to know the
(10:46):
state of the flock, which theBible commands us.
And then we have createdsystems that help us to nurture
and disciple and watch forpeople.
But people have to also wantthat.
That's exactly right, becausewhat has happened?
We have created a churchculture.
(11:06):
That's just about.
Just give me a quick word, onehour service and I'm in and out.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
So the body of Christ has basically transitioned into
this quick culture wherethere's no accountability.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
It's culture Christianity.
It's not Bible Christianity.
Bible Christianity we do lifetogether, we walk together.
We hold each other accountable.
Just like you know, youremember we did a series called
Don't Judge Me.
So you get a lot of believers.
Ain't nobody supposed to judgeme, but God.
(11:42):
That is not what the Bibleteaches.
The Bible tells us that if youhave one in your fellowship,
that if you have a brother orsister that is a fornicator,
that is an adulterer, a liar inother words, they practice in
sin and you go to them and theydon't want to repent, you're
supposed to isolate them out ofyour fellowship so they can see
(12:04):
I'm out of order, so they cancome back into order.
If they don't choose to comeback into order, they're
supposed to be isolated outsideso it can keep shining a light
on them that I'm not doing whatis right.
That's Bible Christianity.
That's Bible Christianity thatwe are to judge.
We's Bible Christianity that weare to judge.
We are to judge.
We are to judge those that arein.
(12:26):
We're not to judge those thatare out.
We're not to judge the worldbecause the Bible said they are
already condemned, they arealready guilty, but we're to
judge our own and because wehave not subscribed to the Bible
and we have allowed thismotivational, speaking,
(12:47):
inspirational Inspirational makeme feel good crowd drawing type
of.
We try to call it Christianity,but it's not.
It's a cultural Christianity.
It's not Bible Christianity,it's a cultural Christianity,
it's not Bible Christianity.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Now, we're beginning to reap the harvest of what the
church has sown for the last 20years, and so it's important to
understand that.
The inspiration on Sundaymornings, you know, that's fine
and dandy, but you have tobalance that and go deeper in
your study of the scriptureBecause, yes, you need, you know
, leave church feeling good,repent, get everything together
on Sundays, but when you leavechurch, you need to be able to
(13:32):
go deeper so that you can grow,so you can develop, so that you
can be discipled, you know, sothat you can go and disciple
someone else, you know, so thatyou can go and disciple someone
else, instead of living off onehigh, off another high, from
Sunday to Sunday and neverreally going deeper.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
You never grow in your relationship with God, you
never become a disciple ofChrist and Jesus.
He talked about it throughoutthe scriptures in the gospel If
any man come after me, let himdeny himself, take up his cross
and follow me.
If anyone going to be mydisciple, he must hate his own
(14:12):
life.
He must hate mother and father.
Was he saying, hate them.
He's saying in comparison to meand following me, it'll feel
like hate.
When you're going to choose tofollow me, you're going to have
to kill and get rid of thesethings in order to be the
follower that I am requiring,anything that'll come in between
my in between relationship withme and my word and what I said,
(14:37):
because his standard is veryhigh, but because when the
church growth movement came in,everybody want to grow their
church.
So to grow their church, you nowgot to begin to cater, to flesh
cater, to seeker friendly cater, to unbelievers.
(14:59):
Instead of Holy Spirit drawingpeople, our systems draw people.
So instead of us makingdisciples of Christ, we're
making disciples of culture anddisciples of man.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
So the church is not preaching on the hard subjects
such as sin.
They're not teaching the Bible.
Subjects such as sin, they'renot teaching the Bible.
So basically, in order to keepthe crowds coming.
And so it's producing a churchfilled with immature people.
Or, if they're Christians atall, right, because you can go
(15:35):
and get inspired and never beinspired to come to Christ and
lay down your old life.
But the ones who are in thatpredicament or under that type
of teaching or influence are thevery ones who are going to be
easily deceived.
Those are people who would beeasily deceived, easily take the
(15:58):
mark of the beast which we'revastly approaching, that season
where you know there's going tobe more pressure on the church.
And so, with these falsedoctrines coming in, the
deception is coming in thechurch.
The Bible talks about over inJude I believe it was Jude, you
mentioned early in Jude how weshould contend for the faith and
(16:19):
it talks about how thesecertain people creeped in.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Unnoticed.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Unnoticed.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
In other words, we ain't been paying attention to
them.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
So the gatekeepers were not doing their job.
Speaker 2 (16:32):
They were not active.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
They weren't listening to the messages that
was going forward.
They weren't.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
They're not calling out things that need to be
called out.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Exactly.
The generals of the faith arenot standing up and tapping
people on the shoulder andsaying you're off on this hyper
grace message.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
That is not.
That's not the grace of God.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
That's not God's grace.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
You twisted the scriptures, you twisted a truth
which we talk about.
This all the time.
There are great men of god thatwe used to follow that we no
longer listen to.
Right, they're off.
They're off.
They're off in their teaching.
It's no longer biblicaldoctrine.
They'll be.
They've.
They've given over to theculture and we respect them
(17:17):
highly.
We love them.
They are brothers and sistersin Christ.
They are our colleagues.
But your doctrine has nowbecome leavened.
Speaker 1 (17:27):
Last days there are going to be many who fall or
many who are deceived because ofthe itching ears and the
doctrines of devils are going tobe so prominent.
(17:51):
And the thing is is thatbecause people are not
accustomed to truth, thedoctrines of devils does not
seem like anything's wrong withit.
You can be easily deceived.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
When you think about this, the Secret Service are
responsible for investigatingcounterfeit bills, but when they
go and Find out and study andhow they're able to recognize a
counterfeit bill, they don'tstudy false bills, they study
(18:26):
real bills.
So they are so in tune withwhat is real that fake
automatically stands out.
So what has happened is peopledon't stay in the word of God
and engulf themselves in truth.
They go and pick all thesedifferent things and they put
(18:47):
all these things in theirspiritual mouth.
So now your foundation wasconfusion.
You didn't start a foundationof strictly truth because you
weren't just a Bible person.
You love to listen to everybody, regardless of what they say.
Very dangerous, very dangerous.
And then this is another bigthing that we have allowed to
(19:10):
happen.
Into the body of Christ, theBible says lay hands suddenly on
no man and be not a partake oftheir sins.
So what he's saying is don't bequick to release someone into
their spiritual authoritywithout them being proven,
(19:30):
because now you release them,you're giving them influence,
you're giving them authority andnow you're becoming a partaker
with their sins, because nowthey're causing shipwreck of
many people's faith.
And that's one of the thingsthat social media has done.
It has given people access andthey have influence with their
(19:51):
voice and they don't deserveinfluence because there's no one
holding them accountable towhat they're teaching and
preaching.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
Absolutely, I agree wholeheartedly.
And so, going back to therightly dividing the word of
truth, what do you recommend fora new believer and how do they
rightly divide the word of truth?
I know for us when we first gotborn again, we read the word
that was our primary.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
That's the main foundational thing read the word
.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
That was our primary.
That's the main foundationalthing.
And then we will couple thatwith um proven generals who had
written books, such as kennethhagan.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
Uh, I highly recommend his books he has
amazing he has foundationalteachings that will help give
you a foundation in yoursalvation in terms of writing a
divine well, I think the mainthing for a baby believer is
they need to find a maturebeliever that has the fruit of
(20:50):
Christ in their life, that theywalk it, how they talk it and
ask them to disciple them.
That's good.
Instead of them trying tofigure it out by themselves,
they need to see someone thatthey like what they see in their
life and say can you help megrow in my relationship with God
(21:12):
Along with being a part of astrong local church?
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Absolutely, church Absolutely, and that way someone
is helping you navigate theprocess and you're not just
figuring it out on your own.
Amen, that's good.
What else would you like to add?
Any scripture, anything youwould like to add to give the
people who are watching this anidea of how to navigate this
(21:43):
world that's filled with so manydoctrines, so many teachings
other than what you just said.
I think those two things weregreat Strong church and great
discipleship.
Speaker 2 (21:56):
Yeah, I mean scriptures like Matthew 24,
where Jesus is talking aboutsigns of the last day, is
deception.
First, timothy 4, second, whereall of Timothy yes.
Chapter one and two and all ofPeter and Jude.
Jude and Timothy and Peter arebasically the same type of
(22:22):
writings that you're going tohear and they deal with
deception all the time and partof the last day church, we're
contending against deception.
So those books Revelations 21and 8, when he talked about the
cowardly, the abominable all ofthese people are going to be
(22:46):
cast into the lake of fire.
So I encourage you to surroundyourself with people that don't
compromise, not being verysensitive believers that if you
try to correct them, they easilyoffend it.
If you're around those type ofpeople that call themselves that
(23:10):
type of believer, what is goingto happen is it's going to
weaken you because they havegotten engulfed in the culture.
Any preachers that you hear thatare trying to stimulate your
ears and it doesn't challengeyou to bear the fruit of Christ,
(23:31):
they are a cultural Christian.
They are a cultural preacher.
So all of these type of thingsyou have to be aware of and you
need to evaluate the church thatyou are part of.
What is your pastor, yourapostle, your prophet is?
Whatever their title is, whatare they teaching?
(23:53):
Are they challenging you to bea follower, a true disciple, of
Christ, or are they stimulatingyour feelings, your emotions,
your gift things?
And we believe in all the gifts, we believe in the prophetic,
we believe in the apostolic, webelieve in all of those things.
But more than anything, weshould be like Jesus, we should
(24:15):
be his church that the gates ofhell would not prevail against
his church that the gates ofhell would not prevail against.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
And so, you know, as pastors, apostle and I, we feel
like we are.
You know, we always want ourchurch to grow, but we made a
decision that we don't want ourchurch to grow at the expense of
souls being at risk of going tohell because we refuse to teach
truth.
We were because we refuse to,uh, tell people what God does,
says the Lord.
So we have made a decision thatthat's not going to be our case
(24:52):
.
We're going to want, we wantpeople to grow, develop in their
relationship with Christ.
Our goal is that all peoplehear well done.
We want to hear well done, andwe want our congregation to hear
well done.
And so I brought this podcastto you today, because we feel
like we are voices in this lastday.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Amen.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
And that we have a mandate from God to be
gatekeepers for the body ofChrist, to be gatekeepers for
the body of Christ, to speak outagainst the injustices of our
society and to bring truth toGod's people.
So we just wanted to make surethat you are aware today, and
that we give you these tools tohelp you understand that there's
(25:33):
a great deception that's goingto happen.
The Bible says that there'sgoing to be a great falling away
.
In other words, that there'sgoing to be a great falling away
.
In other words, there's goingto be a time where so many
believers turn away from thefaith.
There is going to be, and thattime is coming upon us even now.
And so it's imperative that youwork on your foundation, make
(25:57):
sure your foundation is sure,because the Bible says that if
your foundation is built on sand, when the winds and the storms
come, great is going to be thefall of that building and so.
But if your foundation is on astrong, steady foundation, when
the storms come and the testscome for you to deny Christ,
(26:21):
then you'll be able to stand,having done all stand.
And so we just wanted to bringthat truth to you today.
We pray that this has blessedyou this podcast and we'd love
to hear from you.
So be sure to comment, let usknow what your thoughts are, and
if you have any questionsconcerning these false doctrines
that are out here falseteachings we'll be glad to help
(26:43):
you where we can.
So God bless you all.
We'll see you next time here onEffective Prayer Strategies
podcast.
Thank you.
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