As we peel back the layers of what makes relationships tick, Robyn Blake-Mortimer joins us with her treasure trove of insights from the world of couples therapy and clinical psychology. She weaves her personal journey into our exploration, resonating with listeners who find themselves on the fringes of the conventional, especially when it comes to navigating the complexities of neurodiversity in partnerships and parenting. Our heart-to-heart doesn't just skim the surface; we dive deep into the fabric of connection that holds us together, unveiling practical advice for enhancing dialogue, resolving conflicts, and enriching the bonds within the family unit.
https://www.tunedincouples.com/
https://www.gottman.com/
danabaltutis.com, mytherapyhouse.com.au, https://mytherapyhouse.com.au/your-childs-therapy-journey/ https://www.danabaltutis.com/services
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Dana Baltutis (00:01):
Hi, Robyn Blake Mortimer.
I'm excited to have you on theEmpowered Parent Podcast today.
You are a certified GottmanMethod couples therapist,
marriage counsellor, coach andchampion of couples in
relationships.
You are also a clinicalpsychologist with degrees in
(00:22):
special education, giftededucation and hypnosis.
That is an amazing toolbox youhave there, Robin, and I love it
that on your webpage of TunedIn Couples, your clinic, you
write.
I know firsthand the pain ofbroken relationships and can
empathize with how difficult itis to manage intense emotions of
(00:45):
disappointment and grief.
I remain incurably optimisticabout a couple's ability to
change and rejuvenate theirlives.
I love that quote Thank you, Ilove that quote so positive, so
positive, and it really speaksto who you are, robin.
So I'm keen to chat with youtoday because many parents and
(01:12):
people that may not be parentsyet or aren't parents or won't
be parents at all in thislifetime, who are listening, may
be struggling in theirrelationships, especially if
they are neurodivergentthemselves.
So they might be identified asneurodivergent or they might
feel that they just think alittle bit outside of the box or
(01:34):
think a little bit differentlythan anyone else, or feel that
they're from another world ordon't belong in this world.
And also for people who areparenting children who are
neurodivergent, I think whatwe're going to talk about today
will be extremely important,because parenting children who
(01:56):
are neurodivergent and peoplewho identify themselves as being
neurodivergent or havingchallenges in relationships I
know that you are a treasuretrove in that area, but before
we delve deeper into this inyour own words, robin, could you
(02:17):
please tell us your story andwhat led you to helping couples
navigate relationships andconnection?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (02:27):
I'm not sure how long we've got here,
dana, but thank you for thosekind words.
If you look at all of thequalifications that I've got,
it's almost like it's been asearch to try to understand
myself and a real trying to workout what is it that makes me
(02:48):
work?
And I always felt like I was abit different myself and it was
trying to find out.
Okay, I'm not quiteunderstanding some of these
social rules, so I'm going toread a lot of books about people
.
And then I became reallyinterested in psychology, really
interested in what happens whenI became a teacher, because I
(03:12):
wanted to help people andfinding it really hard, or my
heart was drawn to thosechildren who just didn't quite
fit in those ones who werethinking outside the box, where
your standard approach didn'twork.
And so that took me into giftededucation, adaptive education,
(03:35):
and so all of this collectingmore and more ways which was
ostensibly to help these otherpeople in my life, but then I
started to realise I was tryingto help myself as well.
So there is that sense of oh.
I've worked hard to try andunderstand it and I wonder why I
(03:56):
kind of am attracted to all ofthese people who don't fit
within the average kind of lineand it was easy for me to see
that, hey, I fell in lovebecause I really appreciated
that person's intellect or Ireally appreciated that person's
(04:16):
creativity, and then I laterthought oh, maybe there's a bit
of that in myself.
So there's been this reallyinteresting journey towards oh
how do I work out what's goingon?
I left the teaching career inthe midst of a life change and a
(04:39):
major breakdown of my firstmarriage and I had two little
children and it was the mostdifficult time in my life and I
had a permanent part-time joband I moved states to return
from Canberra to Adelaide, toSouth Australia where my support
(05:01):
network was and you really needa good support network when
you're trying to do soulparenting.
But I got bored and I justthought, oh, I want to learn
something new, and what do youdo when you're bored?
But I went back to universityto finish the psychology honours
degree, wow, and it was a bitof transforming the oh, I've
(05:24):
made some mistakes.
I've got to learn more aboutpeople, then more about
relationships, and so I kind offell into let's be a
psychologist, let's work in theclinical area, let's do couples,
because I'd really like to helpother people learn from my
mistakes and not make those samemistakes.
Dana Baltutis (05:49):
And it is very.
I think many of us sort ofchoose our path because it's a
healing journey and you know Ialways think about.
You know, perception isprojection.
So what we know in ourselves,that's what we see in others.
And I love the way you said youknow you were interested in the
(06:09):
intellect of others, thecreativity of others, and then
you realize, hey, I think I'vegot that inside of me, so I love
that.
And often you know, we talkabout, you know other people's
strengths or we might admiresomeone that we see and we
really need to turn that mirrorback to us and say, oh, I am
(06:32):
intelligent and I am creative.
I love that, robin.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (06:35):
Thank you.
Dana Baltutis (06:35):
That is really.
That's beautiful.
So on your website it statesthat you're a certified Gottman
Method couples therapist.
What is the Gottman Method?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (06:47):
Right.
The Gottman Method is developedby John Gottman and Julie
Gottman, who are a reallypowerful couple who are so
fascinating with the way thatthey have worked, including John
Gottman's more than 40 years ofresearch in couples.
(07:09):
And he was able, on the basisof a 10-minute conflict
discussion.
Watching a couple have aconflict discussion, a standard
argument he could predict withmore than 90% accuracy whether
they would stay together orwhether they would divorce
(07:29):
within five years.
Dana Baltutis (07:31):
Wow, that's amazing, yeah, yeah.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (07:35):
And when you look at that kind of
accuracy of research andprediction.
He went in very humbly.
And prediction he went in veryhumbly, saying I don't know
anything about relationships, myrelationships are not going
very well.
He actually his marriage toJulie is his third and
(07:58):
successful marriage.
They've been married a verylong time, so he finally got it
right from learning all thisstuff about not what the
textbooks tell you you should do, but this is what real couples
did, because they divided intotwo groups One he would call the
masters of relationship and theothers he called the disasters
(08:22):
which they're horrible labels,aren't they?
Dana Baltutis (08:24):
And for people who can't see Robin's face.
She's grimacing at the moment.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (08:29):
So, yes, the masters and disasters Okay,
they're horrible and I know thelabels and I know in many
instances my pattern.
I fell into the disasters ofrelationships.
Dana Baltutis (08:42):
Yes, yes, yes.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (08:43):
So blunt, so masculine in the way it's
described.
Yes, no pussy footing around it.
No grey area there, absolutelyJust black and white, which is
part of how John Gottmanoperates.
But his wife said you'refinding out all of this stuff
about what the people who dowell do and how they build a
(09:08):
really sound, good, solidrelationship.
How about we teach that totherapists and use that?
to help people, and so it'sreally wonderful that this is
not based on pie-in-the-skyideas.
It's based on research, andthis is what we know works from
(09:29):
the people that we've watched,and there's been thousands and
thousands of couples he's workedwith and it's been replicated
in many different culturalgroups.
So these studies were done inthe USA and they were done with
newlyweds, and he followed themlongitudinally.
Wow, Later they expanded it toinclude lesbian and gay couples
(09:54):
as well, and they found the samepattern of what predicts really
good, solid relationships.
And so much of it is about howyou deal with conflict, whether
you can learn how to do thatkindly and gently and whether
you can learn to repair.
Dana Baltutis (10:14):
Yes, yes, yeah, because often there will be
ruptures, but it's about how werepair the ruptures, because the
ruptures are normal in everydaylife.
Right, we Absolutely.
We're rupturing all the time,we're falling out of rapport
with people all the time andit's about how do we get back
into rapport.
So, robin, if someone listeningand they're thinking, oh no, am
(10:37):
I going to fall into thatdisaster group, am I going to be
out of my relationship,partnership, marriage in five
years?
Is that doomsday for them?
Or is there hope?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (10:53):
There's always hope yes, always, always
hope yes.
And I think there's somethingreally positive about thinking
oh dear, I've been doing thisthe wrong way way I want to
learn how to do it differently.
So in the ideal world, you, ifyou're starting to get an idea,
(11:17):
there's something going wrong inyour relationship.
Ideally you seek some helpearlier it's.
Sometimes I have couples comein who've been together and
married for 20 years and thenwe've got to unpack so many
hurts of 20 years worth.
Dana Baltutis (11:37):
yeah, 20 years worth, not, not two years worth
20.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (11:41):
Yeah, so when you have people come in
earlier saying, oh well, thishappened two years ago, I think
that's easy, we can repair that,we can talk about that.
So I think it's likeacknowledging we're all human.
We all make mistakes.
(12:02):
They don't teach us how to dorelationships at school.
You get this kind ofunrealistic view on soap operas
or TV shows or what have you?
Or pop songs or whatever butyou don't get told how to say
(12:24):
hey, I'm sorry I stuffed up.
Yes, let's try that again.
Dana Baltutis (12:28):
Yes, and that it's not always roses and
berries in relationships.
You know there are always.
You know there's two differentpeople, or three different
people, or however manydifferent people, and
everybody's got their own way ofunderstanding their world.
(12:50):
Everybody brings in their painand and the way that they
perceive their world.
So, and and I think what'sreally interesting, robin, is
that we get into theserelationships because in some
way we're trying to heal partsof ourselves, you know, and
(13:13):
often we are in relationship.
I know that I've been inrelationships with parts of
myself that I wanted to heal,but I didn't know how to, so I
had to leave that relationship.
And if only I would haveknown't know how to.
So I had to leave thatrelationship.
And if only I would have knownmore about myself if I had time
and someone had supported me,not just to see me as a person
(13:34):
in a couple, but Dana, whatabout you?
Who are you?
You know, and I didn't havethose foundations when I went
into a relationship and we startwith our relationships when
we're so young.
Yes, because we want connection.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (13:48):
Yes.
Dana Baltutis (13:48):
We want love.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (13:49):
Yes, we're all chasing that sort of golden
grail of just someone love me.
Dana Baltutis (13:55):
Yes, set me for who I am.
Yes.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (13:58):
And the ideal would be learning first to
love yourself.
Dana Baltutis (14:02):
Yes.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (14:02):
And really be comfortable with who you are
yes, getting to know who youlove yourself yes, and really be
comfortable with who you are.
Dana Baltutis (14:06):
Yes, getting to know who you are yourself.
Yes, and, as you say,unfortunately, maybe more and
more, they are starting to lookat, you know, appreciating the
individual child.
I know, you know there is aschool here in Western Adelaide,
nutu school, that they'rereally looking at.
(14:29):
It's a mainstream school, it'san independent school and
they're really looking at whatis the language of the child, so
looking at helping the childunderstand who they are through
their language and through theirlens.
And not many educational spaces, places, institutions are like
that, you know, and that doesn'treally form a great foundation
(14:49):
for knowing about yourself firstand being comfortable with
yourself, you know, witheverything about yourself, and
also then being able to stepinto a relationship, especially
if you don't have those modelsat home.
Exactly.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (15:04):
And it's the models at home.
You did say something earlierthat I want to go back to
because my um very logicaldirect mind you were talking
almost a little bit of thishighfalutin idea about going
into relationships to heal partsof yourself.
Yes, um, my approach is alittle bit more nuts and bolts.
(15:28):
Yes, great, I'm very much more.
I'm practical.
I mean, if any of that healingstuff happens, that's a bonus.
Yes, but that's kind of a bitairy-fairy.
Dana Baltutis (15:38):
Yes.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (15:39):
For the people listening today,
especially if we've got parentsof neurodivergent children,
especially if we've got parentsof neurodivergent children
especially if we've gotneurodivergent parents
themselves.
They just want to know.
Hey, we're going to go intogetting some relationship help
to learn some skills about howto talk more nicely to each
(16:00):
other, how to sort of take abreath, take a break and think
about how can I bring this up ina way that's not going to be
blaming or attacking, or how canI sort of learn not to just
blow up myself when I'm feelingreally attacked and you could
(16:22):
talk about healing stuff.
But how do you do it?
Dana Baltutis (16:25):
Yeah, stuff, but how do you do it?
Yeah, yeah, how do you do itand how do?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (16:29):
I just behave like a better human being
for a starter and that willthen leave a bit more space as
you're getting that success fromchanging behavior to feeling
more like you're gettingsomething tangible that works.
Dana Baltutis (16:45):
Oh, I love that and I think that that would suit
so many people.
I know that my profile is I'm avisionary and then it takes me
a lot to get the details.
So I've got a lot of detailedpeople around me, but I do think
that is very much somethingthat is needed out there.
(17:06):
How do I do it?
You know what are the words thatI say, what are the thoughts
that I need to be thinking.
How do I actually do this in myrelationship now to make
changes?
Right, and that's what youoffer.
Is that right, robyn?
You help people with that.
That's what I'm helping peoplewith.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (17:24):
Yes, people possibly listening.
You might find it helpful to goto the Gottman website, and if
you go to the Gottman Institute,they also send out free, not
podcasts, it's just little blogs, little newsletters with some
(17:44):
ideas that can help you feelmore like oh, that makes sense,
yeah I can try that on or I cansort of think about that in the
next week yeah great um.
Dana Baltutis (17:55):
So what are some of the most common problems you
see in relationships robin um?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (18:06):
oh, it varies from how.
The really big one is howpeople do conflict and just
whether they know how to fightfair or whether they just try to
avoid conflict totally and thenthey just drift apart.
(18:26):
so it's like there seems to betwo different groups.
There's those who are reallyavoiding conflict and just kind
of drifting apart, because ifthey're not sorting out the
conflict, they're just shovingit under the mat basically and
not talking about things, andthen they just shut down and
(18:48):
resentment builds up.
Others, the arguments getreally unpleasant and scary and
then others just find that wedon't do anything together.
We're just too busy beingparents, too busy earning a
living, too busy doing all ofthis keeping the house, that
(19:11):
it's more like I'm living with ahousemate than with my lover or
with my friend and that can bea very, very lonely place and
people then become vulnerable togoing outside the relationship
and affairs can start.
Dana Baltutis (19:30):
So that's almost like what we learnt at school
the fight, flight, freeze, whereyou're fighting or you're
flighting, you're withdrawing,or you're freezing.
You don't know what to do, soyou just don't do anything and
you just like you say, you justgo on automatic pilot.
Would that be you?
Know the really easy way ofexplaining that.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (19:52):
Really.
Dana Baltutis (19:53):
I mean, I know it's more complex, but you know,
if we sort of look at conceptsthat how do we make that easy
for people?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (20:01):
I like that because it's very much
fight flight or freeze.
Dana Baltutis (20:05):
Yes, very perceptive way to describe what
goes on in relationships,because we see that in children
and we have that in ourselves,not necessarily only just
physically, but emotionally.
Right, our emotions can do that.
Yeah, and what about?
Do you see problems when?
(20:28):
I guess, when people havechildren, is that a milestone
that you know differentparenting ways, different
perceptions of parenting,different beliefs around
parenting, all of those?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (20:42):
things apply.
I love research, yes, and someof the really interesting
research that came out from theGottmans is that a huge
percentage of people, thesatisfaction in the relationship
dramatically declines in thefirst year after they have a
child, which is so kind ofdisappointing because there's
(21:06):
this longing to have anotherhuman being to sort of have a
baby and it's hoping it's goingto be wonderful.
And then, of course, people aretired, they are stressed and it
just becomes very difficultbecause often they don't make
time to continue looking afterthe relationship, because this
(21:27):
newborn little bundle needs somuch time and it's hard
particularly to work withhelping.
The guys normally understandthat, yeah, their partner still
loves them but they just needthe best way they can be
supportive is to be supportiveand understand of the
(21:48):
relationship with this baby andtry to do that in a way that's
non-selfish and caring andgenerous and that eventually
you're going to work backtowards reconnecting.
Dana Baltutis (22:03):
And do you think with I mean you mentioned guys,
men.
And do you think with I meanyou mentioned guys, men in
same-sex relationships it couldbe the person that didn't born
the baby, you know, who mightnot be breastfeeding the baby,
do you think that?
Well, let's talk about men now.
(22:25):
Do you think that they may havedifficulty in understanding
what to do because they may nothave had role models themselves?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (22:35):
Yeah, and I do think this is really
important and I hate togeneralise because I don't want
to in any way say all men yes,no, no, no Because that's
absolutelynot the case, there's some
absolutely remarkable exceptionsto the stereotyped ideas in
that way.
Yes, yes, there is an issuearound what role models you've
(23:02):
had with people that seem tocome to me and from what I've
observed, there seems to bealmost this sense of well.
I didn't have this myself, so Ireally, really want to do it
well oh yes, I've heard thatactually as well.
Dana Baltutis (23:20):
I've not had it.
I want to be the best.
Yeah, because I've not had it.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (23:25):
Yes, and so what I'm seeing, especially
with the younger generation,because they can't see us and I
did dye my hair, but I mean I am.
I've been working in the fieldfor 40 years yes, so the younger
generation, the involvement ofthese young men and the people
(23:47):
who didn't actually birth thechildren is so much more willing
and involved than it ever usedto be, and I think that gives me
great encouragement for what'sgoing to happen and the way that
these children are brought up.
(24:07):
Expecting dad will be involved.
It's kind of special.
Dana Baltutis (24:14):
And I think also, I was talking to a counsellor
the other day and he said thatmen and he does a lot of work
with men and he was saying thatmen are starting to step up
because that's what theirpartners are expecting.
Now it's the, the gender roleshave become a team rather than
(24:38):
you know, this is what you doand this is what I do.
And there are men that even nowI know.
A friend of mine is pregnant.
She's going to give birth inabout three or four months and
already the dad is seeking outpaternity leave, you know, and
she said, oh, I'm going to bedoing some work and studies and
he's going to be the one lookingafter.
So already the planning isthere.
(24:59):
That wasn't 10 years ago.
15 years ago, that was not evenon the cards.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (25:04):
It would have been unheard of no.
Dana Baltutis (25:06):
Absolutely unheard of.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (25:11):
No, no on the cards, it would have been
unheard of.
No, absolutely no no, and Ijust think the children benefit
so much, but also our futuresociety, because being able to
be involved with that softer,gentle part of the parenting and
getting in touch with thatnurturing side of yourself it
can.
That's when it can be reallyhealing.
Yes, yes, I love that, I lovethat.
Dana Baltutis (25:33):
So what about if couples are feeling like you
know they're in conflict orsomething's not going right?
What are the telltale signsthat they might need to seek
professional help?
Because some couples probablythink, oh, this is the way we
are, this is how we've done itall the time, and 20 years later
(25:54):
they think, oh no, this was,this was too hard.
You know what would be some ofthose telltale signs that, uh,
maybe go and see someone becauseyou can have an even more
connected, intimate relationship.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (26:10):
Yeah, I think, if they are having more
and more um sort of argumentsand feeling like they're not
getting anywhere, so if thearguments are increasing more,
if there is more of this feelingof building up, of hopelessness
, what's the point?
(26:31):
This?
Is going nowhere if they'restarting to fantasize about
leaving or starting to eventhink about oh, how would we
divide this up?
or it would just be better offif we weren't together.
And if that's lasting more thanjust a fleeting thought after
the argument, then they reallyneed to take those courageous
(26:56):
steps and say hey, I'm reallynot happy at the moment and I
think we could get some help,Because if you leave it too long
, it's just going to be so muchmore difficult.
Dana Baltutis (27:10):
And it festers, doesn't it, it comes into
bitterness.
And I guess the other thing is,if you're arguing all the time,
you could seek help and thinkabout how could we argue better,
how could we do this better,because there's nothing wrong
with arguments, you know,arguments are normal parts of
(27:30):
life.
Relationship conflict, like Isay, we get out of rapport, get
back in rapport.
But some people argue not in, Iguess not in safe or kind ways
to their partner and that leavestheir partner quite scarred and
(27:50):
wounded and them scarred andwounded because sometimes people
feel really bad about that.
So is that something as wellthat people could even say look,
you know, let's learn to havethese arguments, conflicts,
differences of point of view ina different way, but in a safe
way.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (28:10):
Yeah, really important.
Dana Baltutis (28:12):
Yeah.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (28:12):
Some of this, one of the main
interventions I give to peopleand I'd love people to learn
about this on the podcastearlier is to say, hey, we need
to call time out.
Yeah, it's a bit like thekindest thing you can do is
recognise this argument isgetting unpleasant.
(28:34):
I'm feeling either reallyscared or I'm feeling so angry
that I'm going to say somethingthat can't be taken back, and so
I don't want to do that.
So let's have a prearrangedsignal that I'm going to take
some time out and go and dosomething to help me calm down,
(28:56):
whether that is ride my bike,pat my dog, listen to music
listen to the podcast.
Yeah, listen to our words ofwisdom, but, um, whatever it is
that will help you reset, nottaking the time out to go, oh so
(29:17):
and so so wrong.
How could they do?
Dana Baltutis (29:19):
that not feeding the flame of anger and
resentment or going to call yourfriend and saying I hate him,
he's done it again because thatjust like, like you say, that
feeds that problem and feeds thestory.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (29:30):
So what we want to do is help people learn
how to just calm that wholefight and flight reaction down,
because when you've got thathappening and the Gottmans call
it you're in diffusephysiological arousal, you're in
total panic, you can't think,you can't just make a joke, you
(29:53):
can't see anything other thanraw fury.
It's like a volcano about toerupt, and when volcanoes erupt
they do an awful amount ofdamage and we don't want that
happening over what could be areally otherwise very nice home
life.
So it's like, okay, step awayand try to remind yourself of
(30:19):
how to settle the positivethings that your partner
normally does the way that.
Oh, oh, okay, let's just calmit down.
This could be not about them.
This could be because I haven'thad anything to eat today and I
forgot to eat yes, yes, or itcould be.
I had a really bad night lastnight and I'm sleep deprived.
(30:41):
Yes, and tomorrow will beanother day, absolutely so learn
how to calm yourself down andthen come back and say okay, now
I've got my frontal lobe, thatpart of my brain that thinks
sensibly, that's back on track.
Can we talk about this a bitmore now?
This is an absolutely coreintervention for people to use.
(31:05):
Sometimes it doesn't workbecause the partner thinks but
if we do that, nothing getsfixed.
Yes, don't leave me, becausepossibly they've had situations
where maybe they're grown-upchildren themselves of divorce
and possibly a father or amother left them and so they
(31:27):
just have their partner leavinglike that to take time out and
they feel really distressed.
Dana Baltutis (31:34):
Like abandoned that someone's left me yeah.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (31:38):
So this is not about your partner
abandoning you.
This is about, okay, we'retaking this break to help
preserve the relationshipbecause at the moment, if we
stay in this, nothing's going toget resolved and we will hurt
each other emotionally.
Yeah, we're taking the break inorder to be able to talk it
(32:01):
through after.
Yeah, and then you come backand you talk it through gently
about.
Dana Baltutis (32:08):
I felt really upset and you know this was why
I was really upset, because thishad been going on for me and I
think they are quite complexskills to learn, and I think
that's why professionals arerequired, because our triggers
(32:28):
often come from our unconsciousand you know, like you say
abandonment or rejection, or youknow whatever's playing out in
the background story.
We sort of put our lens on thatand then we project what we
think the person's doing.
But they might be doing doingsomething totally for themselves
(32:49):
and they need that.
And I know that's taken mequite a while to learn in my
relationship.
And I guess the other thing is,isn't it, robin?
Like we all have differentneurologies, so some of us might
come into a relationship highlyanxious, you know, or depressed
, or you know there might besome chemical imbalances that we
(33:12):
have.
And that's why it's alsoimportant, I think, to work with
your GP, because you might haveall the best intentions in the
world of not having these blowups or not having these anxiety
reactions or these triggers, butyour chemicals you might have
PTSD around that right, and Iknow that from my own personal
(33:34):
experience and once I was goingto the psychologist and then I
went to the GP after many yearsof resisting and then I got onto
the right medication and allthose beautiful things that my
psychologist taught me all fellinto place, wow.
But before that they couldn't,because my neurology was still
(33:57):
having those PTSD reactionswhich you know.
We don't think about thosethings.
So it is very much like abiological as well as a
intervention strategy and wealways try intervention first
and if that doesn't succeed, um,you know, psychologist uh,
(34:19):
hopefully will will be sayingyou know, um, also, maybe have a
look at your biology, becausesometimes we can't change our
chemical imbalances on our own.
You know, it takes a while andwe might need some medical help
and then they might come later.
I'm not saying everyone needsto be medicated, but I know for
(34:41):
some people that has helped,especially with very high
anxiety, and this is the really.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (34:46):
I don't want to get into a debate about
medication or not, but I doreally think that learning how
to self-soothe is reallyimportant and if that doesn't
seem to be working for you,definitely talk with your gp.
Yeah, some of it is very muchtoo light movement-based.
(35:08):
Yes, I mean, if you're gettingthis feeling like you're about
to explode, you need to go outand use your body and just get
it out of your system, becauseyou've got this huge surge of
adrenaline just coursing throughyour body so just being told to
sit and meditate or go do somegardening.
Dana Baltutis (35:29):
You might pull out the whole of the plants I
used to scrub bathrooms reallywell when I was cross.
That would help.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (35:37):
But you know, it's sort of important to
just be aware of what you know,this sounds easy on paper.
Dana Baltutis (35:47):
Yes.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (35:47):
Really sounds easy for us two people to
be talking about.
Yes so much harder when you'recaught up with this frustration
yes you want to be understood bythe person you love.
They are not getting you andyou think if I just yell they
might get it.
Dana Baltutis (36:04):
Yes.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (36:05):
And no, they won't.
Dana Baltutis (36:06):
Yes, unfortunately.
So that comes into our nextquestion.
Often I hear a partner in acouple say well, my partner
doesn't believe in counselling,they think it's my fault,
they'll never go to couplestherapy.
Is it possible to convince apartner to go to couples therapy
(36:27):
and if not, then what?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (36:32):
Yeah, such a good question.
Dana Baltutis (36:36):
Yeah, I hear that a lot, I hear that a lot.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (36:40):
Sometimes people only go to couples
therapy when it's almost thelast ditch resort, when they
know one partner will walk outif the person does not go, and
then, of course, I don't want tolose you.
Yes, I will go.
But it's whether they willconnect with the therapy, which
(37:03):
is another thing.
Dana Baltutis (37:04):
Because they go?
Because the partner's told themthey need to go, otherwise
they're walking out sort of likeas part of that deal.
Yeah, so they go under duress.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (37:14):
Um, I think it's always a really good
place to start with looking atwhat am I bringing to this so if
you're quite clear that yourpartner isn't going to go.
It's good to just check whetherthey will or not, though
because, maybe you've just gotthe assumption they won't go and
maybe if you present itdifferently, they might be
(37:37):
interested.
Dana Baltutis (37:37):
Oh yeah, I love that.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (37:39):
Yes, yes, let's not jump to conclusions
here, but it's also very muchlike okay, there's what we call
the fundamental attributionerror, which is I'm okay, just
fix my partner.
My partner's the one with allof the problems here.
(37:59):
So you, fix my partner and Idon't need any work at all
because I'm kind of perfect.
I mean, I used to think thathey, I'm a psychologist, I know
everything.
Dana Baltutis (38:12):
It's all them.
Yeah, that's not the case.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (38:16):
And so the really interesting thing is to
find out, wow, when you work anddo some individual work first,
if you've got somebody who'sgoing to look at what are you
doing in the relationship.
So tell me about this latestdisagreement you had what did
the other person say?
(38:37):
What did you say?
And was that an example of goodcommunication or was that
unhelpful communication?
Of good communication or wasthat unhelpful communication?
So one example would be thewoman complaining that her
husband never listens to her,and as she was talking to me, I
(39:00):
was trying to work out.
Every time I was trying to geta word in, she just talked over
the top of me.
And then she was nextcomplaining that, oh, and he
never shares his inner world andhe never talks to me.
And I thought I know why hedoesn't talk to you, lady
because you don't give him spaceto talk to you.
(39:23):
And so I had to very gently bevery kind about how frustrating
this must be for her, but thento say um, do you think maybe
that what you're doing is makingit hard for him to talk, and so
that you need some really goodtherapists to help you?
(39:45):
through that, and there is somegood self-help books.
David Burns has got a bookcalled Feeling Great.
And this is very much about howto manage mood disorders and
also how to improvecommunication with your partner,
so I really would recommendchecking out david burns website
(40:09):
as well, and he does havepodcasts on communication issues
.
That could be a really goodplace.
If your partner won't come, youcan still improve your own
yourself and is that burnsb-u-r-n-s or b-y b-u-r-n-s?
Dana Baltutis (40:29):
yeah okay, great, and I'll put those in the
session notes as well.
Fabulous so what is thedifference, then, between?
What does couples therapy andsingles therapy look like?
What's the difference?
What's the main difference withcouples therapy is so much more
(40:56):
interesting.
So it's for who?
For you or for?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (40:57):
the couple for everyone?
Oh, for me, and it's so.
I think it's gives you theopportunity to see what's really
going on because if you'relooking just at the individual,
you only get one version of thestory.
Well, when you're doing couplestherapy, you see the pattern
(41:19):
play out in the room in front ofyou and so with couples, you're
, you've got the two people thatyou're working with and you've
got the relationship dynamichappening in front of you.
So it's very much like, well,you're teaching skills, but
you're also looking at well,when this is said, then that
(41:43):
sets up this reaction.
Dana Baltutis (41:45):
So there's patterns that you're looking at
like there could be apursuer-distancer pattern, like
somebody's chasing aftersomebody wanting more connection
, and that just makes the otherperson run away a little bit
more, so it's being able topoint out those interaction
patterns and getting more of thereality of what happens,
(42:10):
instead of just the presentingthe one side of the story I know
when, um, my husband and I wentto couples therapy, the big
thing that I learned and it'smade us really strong as a
couple was our processing speedsand styles.
So I know, when we had theconflict.
(42:31):
So the way we did conflict wasI needed it to be resolved there
, and then he needed about twoor three days just to think
about it go away, and he wasstill able to function very
normally in the relationship.
But the conflict wasn'tresolved.
And, um, so now we, what we didis we came to a middle point.
(42:52):
Yeah, so he, uh, is able to doit much faster and I'm able to
slow down, and now we know howto do conflict quite well.
So, and um, bringing that intoour awareness and then being
able to name it in that momentto each other, oh okay, look,
I'll wait.
You know I'll wait.
(43:14):
Or, yeah, you just take yourtime as much as you need, and
then he doesn't even need time.
When I say that to him, it'sparadoxical, it's really
interesting, but I know thatthat was really helpful, but
that was not in my mind, right?
I just would think he's alwaysdoing that.
That was what his family did,and you just go into this story.
(43:35):
But when you notice these, Iguess, the patterns and the
scientific, like we talked aboutbefore the podcast, there is a
science to it, yes, you know,and it is about analysing who
does what, how and how can wecome to a compromise, or even
how can we, you know, name forourselves what can happen.
(43:57):
So I knew that during that timewhen he's processing, he's not
rejecting or abandoning, he'sjust doing his thing.
And, like you were sayingbefore, I needed to figure out a
way.
Well, what, how am I going tofill that time for myself?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (44:12):
yes, and how can you fill it with
reminding yourself?
Yes, he is doing this for thesake of the relationship oh yeah
, I love that.
Dana Baltutis (44:20):
Being horrible, or?
Punishing or sulking yeah sothis is love that.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (44:26):
This is so much about the compromising and
the understanding.
Well, I prefer to do it thisway.
Well, they might prefer to doit that way.
Is there a middle ground?
Let's build more of a win-winso we both win rather than
thinking.
Dana Baltutis (44:43):
Only one person can win and then one person can
lose because that's a horribleway to get there?
Yeah, and what about, Robin, ifyou know couples might say, oh,
we don't need couple therapy,we've got our friends to help us
.
Have you heard of that, have?
You heard that saying All thetime.
Can you talk to that?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (45:07):
Friends are great.
Your friends are basicallydesigned to support your point
of view and they're not going tobe able to give you some of the
really honest feedback abouthey, you know what you might be
doing.
Something that's making thisworse because they don't want to
(45:29):
say that to you because theydon't want to jeopardise the
friendship.
Dana Baltutis (45:34):
Or they might say and I've had that before and
some people go oh no, they'rereally honest with me, and I
think a professional that iscoming from a framework, that is
coming from many years ofexperience and working in the
field is able to see things moreclearly.
Oh, absolutely.
(45:55):
You know straight away Becausethe friend might be
well-intentioned and might behonest with you, but there might
be actually somethingunderlying that the friend, not
being a professional in thatarea, has not been able to see.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (46:11):
Yeah.
Dana Baltutis (46:11):
Yeah, I found that for myself and I really
believe in singles and couplestherapy.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (46:19):
I really believe in that, and I mean you
spend a lot of time atuniversity studying patterns and
looking at what it is that arenormal patterns that can be
problematic so that is importantinformation and then, when
you're detached and objectiveand you're not caught up in it,
(46:39):
as, oh well, that's just the wayit is.
I think that's really importantas well to get the professional
help.
Dana Baltutis (46:46):
I think so too.
Are relationships alwaysfixable through counselling, and
is there a time when arelationship is beyond repair
and it's time to go or to let go?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (47:03):
Yeah, yeah , it pains me to say it, but not
all relationships are fixableand I really do want to point
out that, especially in thiscurrent day and age, when we're
so aware of domestic violence,if the relationship is becoming
(47:29):
abusive and if one or either orother of the partners is really
genuinely fearful for theirsafety, then you don't do
couples counselling then.
Then there needs to be someseparation and some safety plan
in that area.
(47:49):
So that's a really big thingthat I don't take people on for
couples counselling when thereis fear of violence and coercive
control because thoserelationships are not safe to
have somebody talk aboutvulnerable dreams and longings,
and then to have somebody talkabout vulnerable dreams and
longings and then to have thatpossibly weaponised and used
(48:13):
against them.
So that's my number one thingabout some relationships that
are not fixable.
I really love that whenrelationships can be fixed and
can be turned around, but it hasto be both people wanting that
(48:36):
to happen.
It can't just be one personwanting that.
Dana Baltutis (48:41):
Yeah, yeah, and sometimes it is quite painful to
walk away from a relationshipand at the same time it's about
our own.
I'll say the word again, butfor me it's about the healing,
but it's about the learning andthe growing right and sometimes
(49:02):
to let go.
Sometimes it's hard to let go.
I know I'm someone that I findit hard to let go go.
Sometimes it's hard to let go.
I know I'm someone that I findit hard to let go, but I now I'm
.
I find that easier to let go ofthings that don't serve me.
But I know, when I was youngerI used to like flog, a dead
horse, if you like.
So yeah, and that's just umpart of that, because I think a
(49:23):
lot of people would feelsometimes I've heard, you know,
people saying I feel like afailure.
I can't be a failure.
My parents divorced.
I can't divorce.
I need to keep the familytogether.
I'm doing it for the family,everything for the family, for
the children.
Have you heard of those?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (49:40):
oh yeah yeah.
And staying in a relationshipwhere there's ongoing bitterness
and resentment and where peopleare just so unhappy and unable
to feel like they can bethemselves, that's not helpful
(50:05):
for the children.
I see sometimes people staylong past when they could have
left because they think they'redoing it for the children, but
then they end up becoming deeply, deeply depressed and really
incredibly unhappy and they'renot able to parent very well
because they just feel like allthe time they're walking around
(50:26):
on eggshells.
Or they're not able to parentvery well because they just feel
like all the time they'rewalking around on eggshells or
they're living this secret lifeand needing to have sort of
external affairs or what haveyou in order to preserve the
so-called family unit.
That's not healthy and not help.
Dana Baltutis (50:43):
helpful for the children because they're not
having the role model of aparent that is happy within
themselves.
Yeah, so what's the message forthe child?
You know?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (50:56):
Yeah, so this is really around
relationships.
My approach is you do it asbest you can to throw everything
at it to make it better toimprove it and there will come a
time, possibly, where you'regoing to have to face the
reality that you've both triedreally, really hard and you just
(51:20):
can't do it anymore and that'sa sad.
But then there are ways toseparate respectfully and have a
child-focused mediatedseparation, not one that ends up
where the poor children getcaught in the middle and used as
(51:40):
collateral damage.
So it's a very difficultsituation and I wish there
weren't.
I'd love there to always be thehappy endings.
Yes, sometimes the unfortunatehappiest ending is through the
divorce court and I hate havingto say that.
Dana Baltutis (52:03):
But that's reality, but that's the reality
for some people.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (52:07):
They've just grown so far apart where
there's substance abuse orthings that just can't be fixed,
can't be addressed and thatoften is for the benefit of that
person in the relationship, forthe relationship and for the
children.
Dana Baltutis (52:23):
Yeah, but like you say, then comes a whole new
learning about how to beseparated amicably and how to
support the children foremost inthat separation.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (52:37):
Absolutely yeah, and that's when it's
really important to havecoaching and counselling on how
to go through that difficultprocess.
Dana Baltutis (52:49):
So let's change the subject a little bit and
let's talk about grief.
Many parents of special needsand neurodivergent children
experience grief through havinga child with multiple challenges
.
Could you speak to that, please, robin?
Yeah, is that a strain on therelationship?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (53:17):
I think this is a way I'm trying to
frame my words about thisbecause if I look at people in
the autistic community as adults, they are deeply hurt by the
way this is talked about asgrief.
Dana Baltutis (53:40):
for the parents, this child has been an
inconvenience for them or youknow, Not who they were
expecting and what they wereexpecting, and disappointment
and shame and all of thoseterrible words instead of
celebrating the identity of thechild, and I think it's about
(54:04):
internalised ableism, which Ireally want to put out there.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (54:11):
It's not helpful to just automatically
assume that because you've got achild with special needs or
with, say, autism or ADHD, orwho is non-speaking, yeah, yeah,
this is a tragedy and at thesame time, we've got to hold two
(54:33):
things that are equally true atthe same time.
It's not what you wereexpecting and it's really
challenging and difficult, giventhat our world, the
neurotypical world, is designedwith a particular idea about how
life is meant to be.
Dana Baltutis (54:53):
I'm doing inverted air commas here.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (54:57):
So yeah, there will be some grief.
I've noticed there's grief forpeople who were late diagnosed
about.
Gee, I wish I'd known what wasgoing on for me earlier, because
then I think my life would havebeen better.
I might have had more support.
And then there's stuff like gee, I wish people had been more
(55:20):
accepting of who I am and thatthe world wasn't just so much
designed that we're onlyprivileging people who talk or
privileging people who Fit inthe box of that standard
deviation curve Absolutely.
I'm not sure if that no.
Dana Baltutis (55:42):
no, I believe that too, and I think it's
unfortunate that you know thistype of grief is still out there
.
I'm really happy that there are, you know, organisations now
that are coming through, likeReframing, autism, and you know
other role models that are outthere.
(56:04):
I think what's his name?
Dylan, the sports guy that's ina wheelchair you know there's
all this coming through that.
I think it's showing thatpeople who are different have
got the capacity to makesomething in their world.
And again, I keep going back tothat school that I visited over
(56:25):
the weekend that you knowthey're really celebrating and
it's a mainstream school.
So it's not even a special needsschool, it's a mainstream
school, but they are celebratingthe different language systems
and the different capacities ofevery child, because you don't
have to come out um, baked in acertain way at the end of the
school year, of the, of the, youknow, year 12 or whatever it is
(56:47):
.
So, and it's just a shame thatyou know, and it it is very um,
I see it more in certaincultures than others that you
know that whole academicachievement or to grow up and
have a family, the way you know,mr Johns down the street has
(57:08):
one, which is you know what isit?
Male-female couple, twochildren, a dog, white picket
fence.
Those days they're changing andI think the more we can show
parents that you know it's okay,this is your journey, and how
wonderful you've got this childin your world.
(57:29):
Now your learning is going tobegin, because they're going to
be able to show you things thatyou would have never had if you
didn't have this child in yourlife.
It doesn't matter who thatchild is, what their superpowers
are right and this superpowers.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (57:44):
It's really interesting because I
think both I really feel likeboth stories are true at the
same time, but I want to bereally honouring of adults and
people with disability that yes,there is grief but it's really
(58:05):
because of the way the world isdesigned in that way Structured?
Yeah, and I also wanted to tiethis back in a little bit with
the story about how kind of itfeels a little bit for me like
I'm coming full circle and hereI am talking to a speech
pathologist on a podcast.
(58:26):
When the last time I wasspeaking to a speech pathologist
I would have been four and Iwas nonverbal and I would speak
in vowels.
I could not hear consonants.
So when it was I want a puppy,I would say I want a puppy.
I'm sure the speech pathologistcan understand that my parents
(58:52):
would take me to the speechpathologist.
We didn't have much money.
They would have to book adouble session because all I
would do for the first half hourwould be go.
That was the extent of mycommunication skills.
I'm sure that caused my parentsa certain degree of grief,
(59:13):
because it would have been niceif I'd been much more socially
adept.
I learned, but I was basicallysurrounded by love and there was
never any doubt that my parentsloved me and cared about me and
accepted me so I just thinkthat's a really nice story about
(59:37):
having come in full circle yesand having overcome all sorts of
significant communicationdisabilities.
And here we are today.
Dana Baltutis (59:49):
And you're talking with me, like you said,
on the podcast as well, as youuse language and speech in your
daily craft.
Yes, Amazing, amazing.
So in an article in PsychologyToday, I read when you have a
(01:00:10):
child with special needs, yourmarriage is much more likely to
be stressed.
This is demonstrated by thenumbers.
Surveys show that the rate ofdivorce in families with a child
with disabilities may be ashigh as 87%.
The divorce rate in familieswith a child with autism is
about 80%.
(01:00:31):
I was quite astonished aboutthat.
Maybe that was a few years ago.
Maybe it's becoming less now.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (01:00:39):
I haven't checked the statistics.
There can be enormous pressuresput on relationships when
you're dealing with behavioursthat are intense and when you're
(01:01:00):
dealing with all of the sensorysensitivities that could go
with autism.
When you're dealing withdifficulties in being able to
regulate emotions, and alsobecause autism is so highly
heritable, there is often thefact that there may well be one
(01:01:21):
or both parents who also havetheir own issues.
So it's like dealing with thisadded stress is difficult
because it's so important tomake sure you get some down time
you get a break from theparenting in order to manage, to
(01:01:44):
calm yourself, to have enoughenergy to keep going to be the
best parent you can be, so thisis not a life sentence.
This is not.
This is absolutely what's goingto happen to me give up now I'd
hate people to walk awaythinking, that's the case, it's
more like hey, it's almost like,say, you're driving along and
(01:02:08):
the petrol gauge on your car isgoing towards empty and you know
, hey, we're getting to a dangerzone here.
This information is going togive you the warning that I'm
going to need to get some moresupports in place.
Dana Baltutis (01:02:24):
And I think society is recognising these
numbers and I know that peopleare gaining more help.
I've seen on social media andmyself I've got a program for
parent coaching.
There's more and more parentcoaching coming through because
they're realising that, oh, hangon, it's not just about the
(01:02:47):
child that needs support, it'sthe actual parents.
And I do have hope because,again, I'm hoping that the
education system and healthsystem change whereby we are
becoming more neurodivergent,sensitive and accepting, and so
(01:03:08):
then that burden doesn't just goon the parents to be
championing what their childneeds, because even through like
the NDIS, they need to proveevery year to the NDIS that
their child needs support.
I mean, that could be very,very draining and you know
that's almost like yep, I'vestill got the child that needs
(01:03:30):
support.
So it's more from a disability,not an abilities model.
Unfortunately, at the momentthat's the way the government
system is funding children.
The NDIS has given a lot ofhope and a lot of great programs
to different children andfamilies and people, but I think
(01:03:51):
that fact that we've got tokeep on proving the disability
and proving the limitations andchallenges, that would be very
wearing for that relationship aswell, and I've spoken to
friends and other clients whosay it's basically a full-time
job.
Yes.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (01:04:11):
Making sure that these supports are in
place?
Dana Baltutis (01:04:13):
Yes, yeah, and that would be extremely, because
finances anyway in the familybudgeting is stressful, but when
you've got to budget and thenprove and then show evidence and
then do something that'sreasonable and necessary, that's
very difficult.
So what about neurodivergentcouples, robyn?
How do they navigaterelationships and is there any
(01:04:35):
help out there for them?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (01:04:41):
I think there is a really good podcast
called Neurodivergent Women.
There is a really good podcastcalled Neurodivergent Women,
which is Michelle Livestock andMonique Mitchelson I'm not sure
if I've got Michelle's surnamecorrect, but they do really,
really supportive work of acouple of seasons for people.
(01:05:06):
Seasons for people.
The real benefit at the momentis that I think we're on this
wave of sort of increasinginformation.
There's a lot of stories aboutpeople who are late diagnosed,
who are coming out, who areadvocating for this, in that,
(01:05:27):
yes, this is a disability andit's a difference and there
needs to be.
It's only a disability becauseof the way the world is society
yep, yep, and I think gettinginto listening to that podcast
would be a really good firststep.
I'm got inspired, since you'veasked me to do this podcast with
(01:05:49):
you, to build theNeurodivergent Couples Academy,
which is my latest passionproject of getting some
self-help materials that peoplewill be able to buy, to do a
program to help themselves inthat way, because there's just
too many people for me to seeface-to-face in the therapy room
(01:06:13):
I want to make sure that therecan be the opportunity.
Dana Baltutis (01:06:17):
That they can access information?
Yeah, Absolutely.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (01:06:21):
So there's a lot of information that's
just starting to come through,which is really positive.
Dana Baltutis (01:06:28):
So, which is an exciting space you know to be in
and then hopefully, with thatinformation and that help some
of these numbers that we readout they'll start going down,
down, down, because people willhave more support and more help
and more understanding.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (01:06:44):
And more advocacy.
Yes, I really like the sayingthat comes around within people
in the autistic community thatsay god, well, you know what
life would be like if we left itto the neurotypicals?
Yes, you'd still be sittingaround in the caves, you know
nothing would be true, you know,there'd be no inventions,
(01:07:05):
there'd be nobody working hardenough to design music, no,
amazing musicians, artists, yeah.
Yeah, so this is very much likelet's focus on the strengths and
when it comes to if you'vefallen in love with somebody
who's neurodivergent, you'recelebrating their absolute
(01:07:26):
strengths and it's part of thepackage deal that they've got
some vulnerabilities or someareas that they're not as good
at.
And then it's like you knowwhat, if I look at myself, I'm
not perfect at everything either.
No, so let's just operate fromthat way.
Dana Baltutis (01:07:45):
That's beautiful.
So, Robyn, wrapping up, howcould parents who are in fragile
relationships empowerthemselves and look after
themselves?
What would be two or threethings that you could suggest to
parents?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (01:08:06):
Wow, wow, I think really give themselves
permission to just take a littlebit of time out and find
something that will give themjoy and that might be giving
themselves the time, even ifit's 10 minutes, to say I'm
(01:08:26):
going to go here, or I'm goingto go to the beach, or I'm going
to have my quiet cup of tea bymyself, just this moment of calm
for yourself, because so oftenit's like you get this huge list
of to-dos and that can bereally problematic.
(01:08:48):
So, getting a little bit oftime, a small moment.
Dana Baltutis (01:08:54):
And even if it's uncomfortable to do that, to
break through your comfort zoneand do it, because once you've
done it you will feel better.
Because some people find it, oh, but I haven't got time, I
can't make time, it's just notpossible, and you think, just
just do it.
Yeah, because once you've doneit you'll be like I've got even
(01:09:17):
more time now I've got moreenergy to do those things that
before I did.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (01:09:21):
That you know for myself yeah, and the
other thing that's really goodis to practice the habit of
being grateful, because alwaysit's easy to see all the bad
things in the relationship, butnothing is ever totally bad.
There's always certain littlemoments that oh what about this
(01:09:46):
thing?
So I think really deliberatelyseeking out moments that you can
be grateful for, that you seeas positive with your partner.
And that's from the old specialeducator in me of almost catch
the kid being good and focus onthat rather than focus on all
the things they're doing wrong.
(01:10:12):
You want a third one?
Yeah, I want a third one.
I think I don't know if I cancome up with a third one.
Probably start Googling andlook at reading some really
reputable self-help materials,yeah.
Dana Baltutis (01:10:24):
Okay, so what I'll ask you to do, robin.
We'll exchange emails afterthis and maybe you can send me
some references I can put on thesession notes for people,
because then at least they cannot only access your website but
they can also have a look andsee in the session notes.
You know maybe two referencesthat you would recommend as a
(01:10:46):
starting point.
I know you've mentioned a fewtoday.
Wow, robin, that was amazing.
Um, I learned a lot and I justlove talking to you.
I love your energy, I love yourstyle, I love who you are, what
you represent and, um, uh, Ijust love.
I'm waiting for that neuroneurodivergent Couples Academy
(01:11:10):
to come out, because I thinkthat will be so amazing for so
many I think, not onlyneurodivergent people, but for
other people who have just gotchallenges in their
relationships and maybe they'vegot their own perception and
things like that.
So, thank you so so much forcoming on the podcast and I just
(01:11:33):
love working with like-mindedpeople.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (01:11:36):
Thank you, it's been my absolute pleasure
and thank you so much toeveryone who's tuned in to
listen to this, because it'sbeen an absolute delight that
I've been able to talk about mypassion project and feel so
comfortable about this.
Dana Baltutis (01:11:51):
Thank you, thank you so much.
Thank you, robyn.
Hi, Robyn Blake Mortimer.
I'm excited to have you on theEmpowered Parent Podcast today.
You are a certified GottmanMethod couples therapist,
marriage counsellor, coach andchampion of couples in
relationships.
You are also a clinicalpsychologist with degrees in
(00:22):
special education, giftededucation and hypnosis.
That is an amazing toolbox youhave there, Robin, and I love it
that on your webpage of TunedIn Couples, your clinic, you
write.
I know firsthand the pain ofbroken relationships and can
empathize with how difficult itis to manage intense emotions of
(00:45):
disappointment and grief.
I remain incurably optimisticabout a couple's ability to
change and rejuvenate theirlives.
I love that quote Thank you, Ilove that quote so positive, so
positive, and it really speaksto who you are, robin.
So I'm keen to chat with youtoday because many parents and
(01:12):
people that may not be parentsyet or aren't parents or won't
be parents at all in thislifetime, who are listening, may
be struggling in theirrelationships, especially if
they are neurodivergentthemselves.
So they might be identified asneurodivergent or they might
feel that they just think alittle bit outside of the box or
(01:34):
think a little bit differentlythan anyone else, or feel that
they're from another world ordon't belong in this world.
And also for people who areparenting children who are
neurodivergent, I think whatwe're going to talk about today
will be extremely important,because parenting children who
(01:56):
are neurodivergent and peoplewho identify themselves as being
neurodivergent or havingchallenges in relationships I
know that you are a treasuretrove in that area, but before
we delve deeper into this inyour own words, robin, could you
(02:17):
please tell us your story andwhat led you to helping couples
navigate relationships andconnection?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (02:27):
I'm not sure how long we've got here,
dana, but thank you for thosekind words.
If you look at all of thequalifications that I've got,
it's almost like it's been asearch to try to understand
myself and a real trying to workout what is it that makes me
(02:48):
work?
And I always felt like I was abit different myself and it was
trying to find out.
Okay, I'm not quiteunderstanding some of these
social rules, so I'm going toread a lot of books about people
.
And then I became reallyinterested in psychology, really
interested in what happens whenI became a teacher, because I
(03:12):
wanted to help people andfinding it really hard, or my
heart was drawn to thosechildren who just didn't quite
fit in those ones who werethinking outside the box, where
your standard approach didn'twork.
And so that took me into giftededucation, adaptive education,
(03:35):
and so all of this collectingmore and more ways which was
ostensibly to help these otherpeople in my life, but then I
started to realise I was tryingto help myself as well.
So there is that sense of oh.
I've worked hard to try andunderstand it and I wonder why I
(03:56):
kind of am attracted to all ofthese people who don't fit
within the average kind of lineand it was easy for me to see
that, hey, I fell in lovebecause I really appreciated
that person's intellect or Ireally appreciated that person's
(04:16):
creativity, and then I laterthought oh, maybe there's a bit
of that in myself.
So there's been this reallyinteresting journey towards oh
how do I work out what's goingon?
I left the teaching career inthe midst of a life change and a
(04:39):
major breakdown of my firstmarriage and I had two little
children and it was the mostdifficult time in my life and I
had a permanent part-time joband I moved states to return
from Canberra to Adelaide, toSouth Australia where my support
(05:01):
network was and you really needa good support network when
you're trying to do soulparenting.
But I got bored and I justthought, oh, I want to learn
something new, and what do youdo when you're bored?
But I went back to universityto finish the psychology honours
degree, wow, and it was a bitof transforming the oh, I've
(05:24):
made some mistakes.
I've got to learn more aboutpeople, then more about
relationships, and so I kind offell into let's be a
psychologist, let's work in theclinical area, let's do couples,
because I'd really like to helpother people learn from my
mistakes and not make those samemistakes.
Dana Baltutis (05:49):
And it is very.
I think many of us sort ofchoose our path because it's a
healing journey and you know Ialways think about.
You know, perception isprojection.
So what we know in ourselves,that's what we see in others.
And I love the way you said youknow you were interested in the
(06:09):
intellect of others, thecreativity of others, and then
you realize, hey, I think I'vegot that inside of me, so I love
that.
And often you know, we talkabout, you know other people's
strengths or we might admiresomeone that we see and we
really need to turn that mirrorback to us and say, oh, I am
(06:32):
intelligent and I am creative.
I love that, robin.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (06:35):
Thank you.
Dana Baltutis (06:35):
That is really.
That's beautiful.
So on your website it statesthat you're a certified Gottman
Method couples therapist.
What is the Gottman Method?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (06:47):
Right.
The Gottman Method is developedby John Gottman and Julie
Gottman, who are a reallypowerful couple who are so
fascinating with the way thatthey have worked, including John
Gottman's more than 40 years ofresearch in couples.
(07:09):
And he was able, on the basisof a 10-minute conflict
discussion.
Watching a couple have aconflict discussion, a standard
argument he could predict withmore than 90% accuracy whether
they would stay together orwhether they would divorce
(07:29):
within five years.
Dana Baltutis (07:31):
Wow, that's amazing, yeah, yeah.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (07:35):
And when you look at that kind of
accuracy of research andprediction.
He went in very humbly.
And prediction he went in veryhumbly, saying I don't know
anything about relationships, myrelationships are not going
very well.
He actually his marriage toJulie is his third and
(07:58):
successful marriage.
They've been married a verylong time, so he finally got it
right from learning all thisstuff about not what the
textbooks tell you you should do, but this is what real couples
did, because they divided intotwo groups One he would call the
masters of relationship and theothers he called the disasters
(08:22):
which they're horrible labels,aren't they?
Dana Baltutis (08:24):
And for people who can't see Robin's face.
She's grimacing at the moment.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (08:29):
So, yes, the masters and disasters Okay,
they're horrible and I know thelabels and I know in many
instances my pattern.
I fell into the disasters ofrelationships.
Dana Baltutis (08:42):
Yes, yes, yes.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (08:43):
So blunt, so masculine in the way it's
described.
Yes, no pussy footing around it.
No grey area there, absolutelyJust black and white, which is
part of how John Gottmanoperates.
But his wife said you'refinding out all of this stuff
about what the people who dowell do and how they build a
(09:08):
really sound, good, solidrelationship.
How about we teach that totherapists and use that?
to help people, and so it'sreally wonderful that this is
not based on pie-in-the-skyideas.
It's based on research, andthis is what we know works from
(09:29):
the people that we've watched,and there's been thousands and
thousands of couples he's workedwith and it's been replicated
in many different culturalgroups.
So these studies were done inthe USA and they were done with
newlyweds, and he followed themlongitudinally.
Wow, Later they expanded it toinclude lesbian and gay couples
(09:54):
as well, and they found the samepattern of what predicts really
good, solid relationships.
And so much of it is about howyou deal with conflict, whether
you can learn how to do thatkindly and gently and whether
you can learn to repair.
Dana Baltutis (10:14):
Yes, yes, yeah, because often there will be
ruptures, but it's about how werepair the ruptures, because the
ruptures are normal in everydaylife.
Right, we Absolutely.
We're rupturing all the time,we're falling out of rapport
with people all the time andit's about how do we get back
into rapport.
So, robin, if someone listeningand they're thinking, oh no, am
(10:37):
I going to fall into thatdisaster group, am I going to be
out of my relationship,partnership, marriage in five
years?
Is that doomsday for them?
Or is there hope?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (10:53):
There's always hope yes, always, always
hope yes.
And I think there's somethingreally positive about thinking
oh dear, I've been doing thisthe wrong way way I want to
learn how to do it differently.
So in the ideal world, you, ifyou're starting to get an idea,
(11:17):
there's something going wrong inyour relationship.
Ideally you seek some helpearlier it's.
Sometimes I have couples comein who've been together and
married for 20 years and thenwe've got to unpack so many
hurts of 20 years worth.
Dana Baltutis (11:37):
yeah, 20 years worth, not, not two years worth
20.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (11:41):
Yeah, so when you have people come in
earlier saying, oh well, thishappened two years ago, I think
that's easy, we can repair that,we can talk about that.
So I think it's likeacknowledging we're all human.
We all make mistakes.
(12:02):
They don't teach us how to dorelationships at school.
You get this kind ofunrealistic view on soap operas
or TV shows or what have you?
Or pop songs or whatever butyou don't get told how to say
(12:24):
hey, I'm sorry I stuffed up.
Yes, let's try that again.
Dana Baltutis (12:28):
Yes, and that it's not always roses and
berries in relationships.
You know there are always.
You know there's two differentpeople, or three different
people, or however manydifferent people, and
everybody's got their own way ofunderstanding their world.
(12:50):
Everybody brings in their painand and the way that they
perceive their world.
So, and and I think what'sreally interesting, robin, is
that we get into theserelationships because in some
way we're trying to heal partsof ourselves, you know, and
(13:13):
often we are in relationship.
I know that I've been inrelationships with parts of
myself that I wanted to heal,but I didn't know how to, so I
had to leave that relationship.
And if only I would haveknown't know how to.
So I had to leave thatrelationship.
And if only I would have knownmore about myself if I had time
and someone had supported me,not just to see me as a person
(13:34):
in a couple, but Dana, whatabout you?
Who are you?
You know, and I didn't havethose foundations when I went
into a relationship and we startwith our relationships when
we're so young.
Yes, because we want connection.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (13:48):
Yes.
Dana Baltutis (13:48):
We want love.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (13:49):
Yes, we're all chasing that sort of golden
grail of just someone love me.
Dana Baltutis (13:55):
Yes, set me for who I am.
Yes.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (13:58):
And the ideal would be learning first to
love yourself.
Dana Baltutis (14:02):
Yes.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (14:02):
And really be comfortable with who you are
yes, getting to know who youlove yourself yes, and really be
comfortable with who you are.
Dana Baltutis (14:06):
Yes, getting to know who you are yourself.
Yes, and, as you say,unfortunately, maybe more and
more, they are starting to lookat, you know, appreciating the
individual child.
I know, you know there is aschool here in Western Adelaide,
nutu school, that they'rereally looking at.
(14:29):
It's a mainstream school, it'san independent school and
they're really looking at whatis the language of the child, so
looking at helping the childunderstand who they are through
their language and through theirlens.
And not many educational spaces, places, institutions are like
that, you know, and that doesn'treally form a great foundation
(14:49):
for knowing about yourself firstand being comfortable with
yourself, you know, witheverything about yourself, and
also then being able to stepinto a relationship, especially
if you don't have those modelsat home.
Exactly.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (15:04):
And it's the models at home.
You did say something earlierthat I want to go back to
because my um very logicaldirect mind you were talking
almost a little bit of thishighfalutin idea about going
into relationships to heal partsof yourself.
Yes, um, my approach is alittle bit more nuts and bolts.
(15:28):
Yes, great, I'm very much more.
I'm practical.
I mean, if any of that healingstuff happens, that's a bonus.
Yes, but that's kind of a bitairy-fairy.
Dana Baltutis (15:38):
Yes.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (15:39):
For the people listening today,
especially if we've got parentsof neurodivergent children,
especially if we've got parentsof neurodivergent children
especially if we've gotneurodivergent parents
themselves.
They just want to know.
Hey, we're going to go intogetting some relationship help
to learn some skills about howto talk more nicely to each
(16:00):
other, how to sort of take abreath, take a break and think
about how can I bring this up ina way that's not going to be
blaming or attacking, or how canI sort of learn not to just
blow up myself when I'm feelingreally attacked and you could
(16:22):
talk about healing stuff.
But how do you do it?
Dana Baltutis (16:25):
Yeah, stuff, but how do you do it?
Yeah, yeah, how do you do itand how do?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (16:29):
I just behave like a better human being
for a starter and that willthen leave a bit more space as
you're getting that success fromchanging behavior to feeling
more like you're gettingsomething tangible that works.
Dana Baltutis (16:45):
Oh, I love that and I think that that would suit
so many people.
I know that my profile is I'm avisionary and then it takes me
a lot to get the details.
So I've got a lot of detailedpeople around me, but I do think
that is very much somethingthat is needed out there.
(17:06):
How do I do it?
You know what are the words thatI say, what are the thoughts
that I need to be thinking.
How do I actually do this in myrelationship now to make
changes?
Right, and that's what youoffer.
Is that right, robyn?
You help people with that.
That's what I'm helping peoplewith.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (17:24):
Yes, people possibly listening.
You might find it helpful to goto the Gottman website, and if
you go to the Gottman Institute,they also send out free, not
podcasts, it's just little blogs, little newsletters with some
(17:44):
ideas that can help you feelmore like oh, that makes sense,
yeah I can try that on or I cansort of think about that in the
next week yeah great um.
Dana Baltutis (17:55):
So what are some of the most common problems you
see in relationships robin um?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (18:06):
oh, it varies from how.
The really big one is howpeople do conflict and just
whether they know how to fightfair or whether they just try to
avoid conflict totally and thenthey just drift apart.
(18:26):
so it's like there seems to betwo different groups.
There's those who are reallyavoiding conflict and just kind
of drifting apart, because ifthey're not sorting out the
conflict, they're just shovingit under the mat basically and
not talking about things, andthen they just shut down and
(18:48):
resentment builds up.
Others, the arguments getreally unpleasant and scary and
then others just find that wedon't do anything together.
We're just too busy beingparents, too busy earning a
living, too busy doing all ofthis keeping the house, that
(19:11):
it's more like I'm living with ahousemate than with my lover or
with my friend and that can bea very, very lonely place and
people then become vulnerable togoing outside the relationship
and affairs can start.
Dana Baltutis (19:30):
So that's almost like what we learnt at school
the fight, flight, freeze, whereyou're fighting or you're
flighting, you're withdrawing,or you're freezing.
You don't know what to do, soyou just don't do anything and
you just like you say, you justgo on automatic pilot.
Would that be you?
Know the really easy way ofexplaining that.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (19:52):
Really.
Dana Baltutis (19:53):
I mean, I know it's more complex, but you know,
if we sort of look at conceptsthat how do we make that easy
for people?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (20:01):
I like that because it's very much
fight flight or freeze.
Dana Baltutis (20:05):
Yes, very perceptive way to describe what
goes on in relationships,because we see that in children
and we have that in ourselves,not necessarily only just
physically, but emotionally.
Right, our emotions can do that.
Yeah, and what about?
Do you see problems when?
(20:28):
I guess, when people havechildren, is that a milestone
that you know differentparenting ways, different
perceptions of parenting,different beliefs around
parenting, all of those?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (20:42):
things apply.
I love research, yes, and someof the really interesting
research that came out from theGottmans is that a huge
percentage of people, thesatisfaction in the relationship
dramatically declines in thefirst year after they have a
child, which is so kind ofdisappointing because there's
(21:06):
this longing to have anotherhuman being to sort of have a
baby and it's hoping it's goingto be wonderful.
And then, of course, people aretired, they are stressed and it
just becomes very difficultbecause often they don't make
time to continue looking afterthe relationship, because this
(21:27):
newborn little bundle needs somuch time and it's hard
particularly to work withhelping.
The guys normally understandthat, yeah, their partner still
loves them but they just needthe best way they can be
supportive is to be supportiveand understand of the
(21:48):
relationship with this baby andtry to do that in a way that's
non-selfish and caring andgenerous and that eventually
you're going to work backtowards reconnecting.
Dana Baltutis (22:03):
And do you think with I mean you mentioned guys,
men.
And do you think with I meanyou mentioned guys, men in
same-sex relationships it couldbe the person that didn't born
the baby, you know, who mightnot be breastfeeding the baby,
do you think that?
Well, let's talk about men now.
(22:25):
Do you think that they may havedifficulty in understanding
what to do because they may nothave had role models themselves?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (22:35):
Yeah, and I do think this is really
important and I hate togeneralise because I don't want
to in any way say all men yes,no, no, no Because that's
absolutelynot the case, there's some
absolutely remarkable exceptionsto the stereotyped ideas in
that way.
Yes, yes, there is an issuearound what role models you've
(23:02):
had with people that seem tocome to me and from what I've
observed, there seems to bealmost this sense of well.
I didn't have this myself, so Ireally, really want to do it
well oh yes, I've heard thatactually as well.
Dana Baltutis (23:20):
I've not had it.
I want to be the best.
Yeah, because I've not had it.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (23:25):
Yes, and so what I'm seeing, especially
with the younger generation,because they can't see us and I
did dye my hair, but I mean I am.
I've been working in the fieldfor 40 years yes, so the younger
generation, the involvement ofthese young men and the people
(23:47):
who didn't actually birth thechildren is so much more willing
and involved than it ever usedto be, and I think that gives me
great encouragement for what'sgoing to happen and the way that
these children are brought up.
(24:07):
Expecting dad will be involved.
It's kind of special.
Dana Baltutis (24:14):
And I think also, I was talking to a counsellor
the other day and he said thatmen and he does a lot of work
with men and he was saying thatmen are starting to step up
because that's what theirpartners are expecting.
Now it's the, the gender roleshave become a team rather than
(24:38):
you know, this is what you doand this is what I do.
And there are men that even nowI know.
A friend of mine is pregnant.
She's going to give birth inabout three or four months and
already the dad is seeking outpaternity leave, you know, and
she said, oh, I'm going to bedoing some work and studies and
he's going to be the one lookingafter.
So already the planning isthere.
(24:59):
That wasn't 10 years ago.
15 years ago, that was not evenon the cards.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (25:04):
It would have been unheard of no.
Dana Baltutis (25:06):
Absolutely unheard of.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (25:11):
No, no on the cards, it would have been
unheard of.
No, absolutely no no, and Ijust think the children benefit
so much, but also our futuresociety, because being able to
be involved with that softer,gentle part of the parenting and
getting in touch with thatnurturing side of yourself it
can.
That's when it can be reallyhealing.
Yes, yes, I love that, I lovethat.
Dana Baltutis (25:33):
So what about if couples are feeling like you
know they're in conflict orsomething's not going right?
What are the telltale signsthat they might need to seek
professional help?
Because some couples probablythink, oh, this is the way we
are, this is how we've done itall the time, and 20 years later
(25:54):
they think, oh no, this was,this was too hard.
You know what would be some ofthose telltale signs that, uh,
maybe go and see someone becauseyou can have an even more
connected, intimate relationship.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (26:10):
Yeah, I think, if they are having more
and more um sort of argumentsand feeling like they're not
getting anywhere, so if thearguments are increasing more,
if there is more of this feelingof building up, of hopelessness
, what's the point?
(26:31):
This?
Is going nowhere if they'restarting to fantasize about
leaving or starting to eventhink about oh, how would we
divide this up?
or it would just be better offif we weren't together.
And if that's lasting more thanjust a fleeting thought after
the argument, then they reallyneed to take those courageous
(26:56):
steps and say hey, I'm reallynot happy at the moment and I
think we could get some help,Because if you leave it too long
, it's just going to be so muchmore difficult.
Dana Baltutis (27:10):
And it festers, doesn't it, it comes into
bitterness.
And I guess the other thing is,if you're arguing all the time,
you could seek help and thinkabout how could we argue better,
how could we do this better,because there's nothing wrong
with arguments, you know,arguments are normal parts of
(27:30):
life.
Relationship conflict, like Isay, we get out of rapport, get
back in rapport.
But some people argue not in, Iguess not in safe or kind ways
to their partner and that leavestheir partner quite scarred and
(27:50):
wounded and them scarred andwounded because sometimes people
feel really bad about that.
So is that something as wellthat people could even say look,
you know, let's learn to havethese arguments, conflicts,
differences of point of view ina different way, but in a safe
way.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (28:10):
Yeah, really important.
Dana Baltutis (28:12):
Yeah.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (28:12):
Some of this, one of the main
interventions I give to peopleand I'd love people to learn
about this on the podcastearlier is to say, hey, we need
to call time out.
Yeah, it's a bit like thekindest thing you can do is
recognise this argument isgetting unpleasant.
(28:34):
I'm feeling either reallyscared or I'm feeling so angry
that I'm going to say somethingthat can't be taken back, and so
I don't want to do that.
So let's have a prearrangedsignal that I'm going to take
some time out and go and dosomething to help me calm down,
(28:56):
whether that is ride my bike,pat my dog, listen to music
listen to the podcast.
Yeah, listen to our words ofwisdom, but, um, whatever it is
that will help you reset, nottaking the time out to go, oh so
(29:17):
and so so wrong.
How could they do?
Dana Baltutis (29:19):
that not feeding the flame of anger and
resentment or going to call yourfriend and saying I hate him,
he's done it again because thatjust like, like you say, that
feeds that problem and feeds thestory.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (29:30):
So what we want to do is help people learn
how to just calm that wholefight and flight reaction down,
because when you've got thathappening and the Gottmans call
it you're in diffusephysiological arousal, you're in
total panic, you can't think,you can't just make a joke, you
(29:53):
can't see anything other thanraw fury.
It's like a volcano about toerupt, and when volcanoes erupt
they do an awful amount ofdamage and we don't want that
happening over what could be areally otherwise very nice home
life.
So it's like, okay, step awayand try to remind yourself of
(30:19):
how to settle the positivethings that your partner
normally does the way that.
Oh, oh, okay, let's just calmit down.
This could be not about them.
This could be because I haven'thad anything to eat today and I
forgot to eat yes, yes, or itcould be.
I had a really bad night lastnight and I'm sleep deprived.
(30:41):
Yes, and tomorrow will beanother day, absolutely so learn
how to calm yourself down andthen come back and say okay, now
I've got my frontal lobe, thatpart of my brain that thinks
sensibly, that's back on track.
Can we talk about this a bitmore now?
This is an absolutely coreintervention for people to use.
(31:05):
Sometimes it doesn't workbecause the partner thinks but
if we do that, nothing getsfixed.
Yes, don't leave me, becausepossibly they've had situations
where maybe they're grown-upchildren themselves of divorce
and possibly a father or amother left them and so they
(31:27):
just have their partner leavinglike that to take time out and
they feel really distressed.
Dana Baltutis (31:34):
Like abandoned that someone's left me yeah.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (31:38):
So this is not about your partner
abandoning you.
This is about, okay, we'retaking this break to help
preserve the relationshipbecause at the moment, if we
stay in this, nothing's going toget resolved and we will hurt
each other emotionally.
Yeah, we're taking the break inorder to be able to talk it
(32:01):
through after.
Yeah, and then you come backand you talk it through gently
about.
Dana Baltutis (32:08):
I felt really upset and you know this was why
I was really upset, because thishad been going on for me and I
think they are quite complexskills to learn, and I think
that's why professionals arerequired, because our triggers
(32:28):
often come from our unconsciousand you know, like you say
abandonment or rejection, or youknow whatever's playing out in
the background story.
We sort of put our lens on thatand then we project what we
think the person's doing.
But they might be doing doingsomething totally for themselves
(32:49):
and they need that.
And I know that's taken mequite a while to learn in my
relationship.
And I guess the other thing is,isn't it, robin?
Like we all have differentneurologies, so some of us might
come into a relationship highlyanxious, you know, or depressed
, or you know there might besome chemical imbalances that we
(33:12):
have.
And that's why it's alsoimportant, I think, to work with
your GP, because you might haveall the best intentions in the
world of not having these blowups or not having these anxiety
reactions or these triggers, butyour chemicals you might have
PTSD around that right, and Iknow that from my own personal
(33:34):
experience and once I was goingto the psychologist and then I
went to the GP after many yearsof resisting and then I got onto
the right medication and allthose beautiful things that my
psychologist taught me all fellinto place, wow.
But before that they couldn't,because my neurology was still
(33:57):
having those PTSD reactionswhich you know.
We don't think about thosethings.
So it is very much like abiological as well as a
intervention strategy and wealways try intervention first
and if that doesn't succeed, um,you know, psychologist uh,
(34:19):
hopefully will will be sayingyou know, um, also, maybe have a
look at your biology, becausesometimes we can't change our
chemical imbalances on our own.
You know, it takes a while andwe might need some medical help
and then they might come later.
I'm not saying everyone needsto be medicated, but I know for
(34:41):
some people that has helped,especially with very high
anxiety, and this is the really.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (34:46):
I don't want to get into a debate about
medication or not, but I doreally think that learning how
to self-soothe is reallyimportant and if that doesn't
seem to be working for you,definitely talk with your gp.
Yeah, some of it is very muchtoo light movement-based.
(35:08):
Yes, I mean, if you're gettingthis feeling like you're about
to explode, you need to go outand use your body and just get
it out of your system, becauseyou've got this huge surge of
adrenaline just coursing throughyour body so just being told to
sit and meditate or go do somegardening.
Dana Baltutis (35:29):
You might pull out the whole of the plants I
used to scrub bathrooms reallywell when I was cross.
That would help.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (35:37):
But you know, it's sort of important to
just be aware of what you know,this sounds easy on paper.
Dana Baltutis (35:47):
Yes.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (35:47):
Really sounds easy for us two people to
be talking about.
Yes so much harder when you'recaught up with this frustration
yes you want to be understood bythe person you love.
They are not getting you andyou think if I just yell they
might get it.
Dana Baltutis (36:04):
Yes.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (36:05):
And no, they won't.
Dana Baltutis (36:06):
Yes, unfortunately.
So that comes into our nextquestion.
Often I hear a partner in acouple say well, my partner
doesn't believe in counselling,they think it's my fault,
they'll never go to couplestherapy.
Is it possible to convince apartner to go to couples therapy
(36:27):
and if not, then what?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (36:32):
Yeah, such a good question.
Dana Baltutis (36:36):
Yeah, I hear that a lot, I hear that a lot.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (36:40):
Sometimes people only go to couples
therapy when it's almost thelast ditch resort, when they
know one partner will walk outif the person does not go, and
then, of course, I don't want tolose you.
Yes, I will go.
But it's whether they willconnect with the therapy, which
(37:03):
is another thing.
Dana Baltutis (37:04):
Because they go?
Because the partner's told themthey need to go, otherwise
they're walking out sort of likeas part of that deal.
Yeah, so they go under duress.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (37:14):
Um, I think it's always a really good
place to start with looking atwhat am I bringing to this so if
you're quite clear that yourpartner isn't going to go.
It's good to just check whetherthey will or not, though
because, maybe you've just gotthe assumption they won't go and
maybe if you present itdifferently, they might be
(37:37):
interested.
Dana Baltutis (37:37):
Oh yeah, I love that.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (37:39):
Yes, yes, let's not jump to conclusions
here, but it's also very muchlike okay, there's what we call
the fundamental attributionerror, which is I'm okay, just
fix my partner.
My partner's the one with allof the problems here.
(37:59):
So you, fix my partner and Idon't need any work at all
because I'm kind of perfect.
I mean, I used to think thathey, I'm a psychologist, I know
everything.
Dana Baltutis (38:12):
It's all them.
Yeah, that's not the case.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (38:16):
And so the really interesting thing is to
find out, wow, when you work anddo some individual work first,
if you've got somebody who'sgoing to look at what are you
doing in the relationship.
So tell me about this latestdisagreement you had what did
the other person say?
(38:37):
What did you say?
And was that an example of goodcommunication or was that
unhelpful communication?
Of good communication or wasthat unhelpful communication?
So one example would be thewoman complaining that her
husband never listens to her,and as she was talking to me, I
(39:00):
was trying to work out.
Every time I was trying to geta word in, she just talked over
the top of me.
And then she was nextcomplaining that, oh, and he
never shares his inner world andhe never talks to me.
And I thought I know why hedoesn't talk to you, lady
because you don't give him spaceto talk to you.
(39:23):
And so I had to very gently bevery kind about how frustrating
this must be for her, but thento say um, do you think maybe
that what you're doing is makingit hard for him to talk, and so
that you need some really goodtherapists to help you?
(39:45):
through that, and there is somegood self-help books.
David Burns has got a bookcalled Feeling Great.
And this is very much about howto manage mood disorders and
also how to improvecommunication with your partner,
so I really would recommendchecking out david burns website
(40:09):
as well, and he does havepodcasts on communication issues
.
That could be a really goodplace.
If your partner won't come, youcan still improve your own
yourself and is that burnsb-u-r-n-s or b-y b-u-r-n-s?
Dana Baltutis (40:29):
yeah okay, great, and I'll put those in the
session notes as well.
Fabulous so what is thedifference, then, between?
What does couples therapy andsingles therapy look like?
What's the difference?
What's the main difference withcouples therapy is so much more
(40:56):
interesting.
So it's for who?
For you or for?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (40:57):
the couple for everyone?
Oh, for me, and it's so.
I think it's gives you theopportunity to see what's really
going on because if you'relooking just at the individual,
you only get one version of thestory.
Well, when you're doing couplestherapy, you see the pattern
(41:19):
play out in the room in front ofyou and so with couples, you're
, you've got the two people thatyou're working with and you've
got the relationship dynamichappening in front of you.
So it's very much like, well,you're teaching skills, but
you're also looking at well,when this is said, then that
(41:43):
sets up this reaction.
Dana Baltutis (41:45):
So there's patterns that you're looking at
like there could be apursuer-distancer pattern, like
somebody's chasing aftersomebody wanting more connection
, and that just makes the otherperson run away a little bit
more, so it's being able topoint out those interaction
patterns and getting more of thereality of what happens,
(42:10):
instead of just the presentingthe one side of the story I know
when, um, my husband and I wentto couples therapy, the big
thing that I learned and it'smade us really strong as a
couple was our processing speedsand styles.
So I know, when we had theconflict.
(42:31):
So the way we did conflict wasI needed it to be resolved there
, and then he needed about twoor three days just to think
about it go away, and he wasstill able to function very
normally in the relationship.
But the conflict wasn'tresolved.
And, um, so now we, what we didis we came to a middle point.
(42:52):
Yeah, so he, uh, is able to doit much faster and I'm able to
slow down, and now we know howto do conflict quite well.
So, and um, bringing that intoour awareness and then being
able to name it in that momentto each other, oh okay, look,
I'll wait.
You know I'll wait.
(43:14):
Or, yeah, you just take yourtime as much as you need, and
then he doesn't even need time.
When I say that to him, it'sparadoxical, it's really
interesting, but I know thatthat was really helpful, but
that was not in my mind, right?
I just would think he's alwaysdoing that.
That was what his family did,and you just go into this story.
(43:35):
But when you notice these, Iguess, the patterns and the
scientific, like we talked aboutbefore the podcast, there is a
science to it, yes, you know,and it is about analysing who
does what, how and how can wecome to a compromise, or even
how can we, you know, name forourselves what can happen.
(43:57):
So I knew that during that timewhen he's processing, he's not
rejecting or abandoning, he'sjust doing his thing.
And, like you were sayingbefore, I needed to figure out a
way.
Well, what, how am I going tofill that time for myself?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (44:12):
yes, and how can you fill it with
reminding yourself?
Yes, he is doing this for thesake of the relationship oh yeah
, I love that.
Dana Baltutis (44:20):
Being horrible, or?
Punishing or sulking yeah sothis is love that.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (44:26):
This is so much about the compromising and
the understanding.
Well, I prefer to do it thisway.
Well, they might prefer to doit that way.
Is there a middle ground?
Let's build more of a win-winso we both win rather than
thinking.
Dana Baltutis (44:43):
Only one person can win and then one person can
lose because that's a horribleway to get there?
Yeah, and what about, Robin, ifyou know couples might say, oh,
we don't need couple therapy,we've got our friends to help us
.
Have you heard of that, have?
You heard that saying All thetime.
Can you talk to that?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (45:07):
Friends are great.
Your friends are basicallydesigned to support your point
of view and they're not going tobe able to give you some of the
really honest feedback abouthey, you know what you might be
doing.
Something that's making thisworse because they don't want to
(45:29):
say that to you because theydon't want to jeopardise the
friendship.
Dana Baltutis (45:34):
Or they might say and I've had that before and
some people go oh no, they'rereally honest with me, and I
think a professional that iscoming from a framework, that is
coming from many years ofexperience and working in the
field is able to see things moreclearly.
Oh, absolutely.
(45:55):
You know straight away Becausethe friend might be
well-intentioned and might behonest with you, but there might
be actually somethingunderlying that the friend, not
being a professional in thatarea, has not been able to see.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (46:11):
Yeah.
Dana Baltutis (46:11):
Yeah, I found that for myself and I really
believe in singles and couplestherapy.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (46:19):
I really believe in that, and I mean you
spend a lot of time atuniversity studying patterns and
looking at what it is that arenormal patterns that can be
problematic so that is importantinformation and then, when
you're detached and objectiveand you're not caught up in it,
(46:39):
as, oh well, that's just the wayit is.
I think that's really importantas well to get the professional
help.
Dana Baltutis (46:46):
I think so too.
Are relationships alwaysfixable through counselling, and
is there a time when arelationship is beyond repair
and it's time to go or to let go?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (47:03):
Yeah, yeah , it pains me to say it, but not
all relationships are fixableand I really do want to point
out that, especially in thiscurrent day and age, when we're
so aware of domestic violence,if the relationship is becoming
(47:29):
abusive and if one or either orother of the partners is really
genuinely fearful for theirsafety, then you don't do
couples counselling then.
Then there needs to be someseparation and some safety plan
in that area.
(47:49):
So that's a really big thingthat I don't take people on for
couples counselling when thereis fear of violence and coercive
control because thoserelationships are not safe to
have somebody talk aboutvulnerable dreams and longings,
and then to have somebody talkabout vulnerable dreams and
longings and then to have thatpossibly weaponised and used
(48:13):
against them.
So that's my number one thingabout some relationships that
are not fixable.
I really love that whenrelationships can be fixed and
can be turned around, but it hasto be both people wanting that
(48:36):
to happen.
It can't just be one personwanting that.
Dana Baltutis (48:41):
Yeah, yeah, and sometimes it is quite painful to
walk away from a relationshipand at the same time it's about
our own.
I'll say the word again, butfor me it's about the healing,
but it's about the learning andthe growing right and sometimes
(49:02):
to let go.
Sometimes it's hard to let go.
I know I'm someone that I findit hard to let go go.
Sometimes it's hard to let go.
I know I'm someone that I findit hard to let go, but I now I'm
.
I find that easier to let go ofthings that don't serve me.
But I know, when I was youngerI used to like flog, a dead
horse, if you like.
So yeah, and that's just umpart of that, because I think a
(49:23):
lot of people would feelsometimes I've heard, you know,
people saying I feel like afailure.
I can't be a failure.
My parents divorced.
I can't divorce.
I need to keep the familytogether.
I'm doing it for the family,everything for the family, for
the children.
Have you heard of those?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (49:40):
oh yeah yeah.
And staying in a relationshipwhere there's ongoing bitterness
and resentment and where peopleare just so unhappy and unable
to feel like they can bethemselves, that's not helpful
(50:05):
for the children.
I see sometimes people staylong past when they could have
left because they think they'redoing it for the children, but
then they end up becoming deeply, deeply depressed and really
incredibly unhappy and they'renot able to parent very well
because they just feel like allthe time they're walking around
(50:26):
on eggshells.
Or they're not able to parentvery well because they just feel
like all the time they'rewalking around on eggshells or
they're living this secret lifeand needing to have sort of
external affairs or what haveyou in order to preserve the
so-called family unit.
That's not healthy and not help.
Dana Baltutis (50:43):
helpful for the children because they're not
having the role model of aparent that is happy within
themselves.
Yeah, so what's the message forthe child?
You know?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (50:56):
Yeah, so this is really around
relationships.
My approach is you do it asbest you can to throw everything
at it to make it better toimprove it and there will come a
time, possibly, where you'regoing to have to face the
reality that you've both triedreally, really hard and you just
(51:20):
can't do it anymore and that'sa sad.
But then there are ways toseparate respectfully and have a
child-focused mediatedseparation, not one that ends up
where the poor children getcaught in the middle and used as
(51:40):
collateral damage.
So it's a very difficultsituation and I wish there
weren't.
I'd love there to always be thehappy endings.
Yes, sometimes the unfortunatehappiest ending is through the
divorce court and I hate havingto say that.
Dana Baltutis (52:03):
But that's reality, but that's the reality
for some people.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (52:07):
They've just grown so far apart where
there's substance abuse orthings that just can't be fixed,
can't be addressed and thatoften is for the benefit of that
person in the relationship, forthe relationship and for the
children.
Dana Baltutis (52:23):
Yeah, but like you say, then comes a whole new
learning about how to beseparated amicably and how to
support the children foremost inthat separation.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (52:37):
Absolutely yeah, and that's when it's
really important to havecoaching and counselling on how
to go through that difficultprocess.
Dana Baltutis (52:49):
So let's change the subject a little bit and
let's talk about grief.
Many parents of special needsand neurodivergent children
experience grief through havinga child with multiple challenges
.
Could you speak to that, please, robin?
Yeah, is that a strain on therelationship?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (53:17):
I think this is a way I'm trying to
frame my words about thisbecause if I look at people in
the autistic community as adults, they are deeply hurt by the
way this is talked about asgrief.
Dana Baltutis (53:40):
for the parents, this child has been an
inconvenience for them or youknow, Not who they were
expecting and what they wereexpecting, and disappointment
and shame and all of thoseterrible words instead of
celebrating the identity of thechild, and I think it's about
(54:04):
internalised ableism, which Ireally want to put out there.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (54:11):
It's not helpful to just automatically
assume that because you've got achild with special needs or
with, say, autism or ADHD, orwho is non-speaking, yeah, yeah,
this is a tragedy and at thesame time, we've got to hold two
(54:33):
things that are equally true atthe same time.
It's not what you wereexpecting and it's really
challenging and difficult, giventhat our world, the
neurotypical world, is designedwith a particular idea about how
life is meant to be.
Dana Baltutis (54:53):
I'm doing inverted air commas here.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (54:57):
So yeah, there will be some grief.
I've noticed there's grief forpeople who were late diagnosed
about.
Gee, I wish I'd known what wasgoing on for me earlier, because
then I think my life would havebeen better.
I might have had more support.
And then there's stuff like gee, I wish people had been more
(55:20):
accepting of who I am and thatthe world wasn't just so much
designed that we're onlyprivileging people who talk or
privileging people who Fit inthe box of that standard
deviation curve Absolutely.
I'm not sure if that no.
Dana Baltutis (55:42):
no, I believe that too, and I think it's
unfortunate that you know thistype of grief is still out there
.
I'm really happy that there are, you know, organisations now
that are coming through, likeReframing, autism, and you know
other role models that are outthere.
(56:04):
I think what's his name?
Dylan, the sports guy that's ina wheelchair you know there's
all this coming through that.
I think it's showing thatpeople who are different have
got the capacity to makesomething in their world.
And again, I keep going back tothat school that I visited over
(56:25):
the weekend that you knowthey're really celebrating and
it's a mainstream school.
So it's not even a special needsschool, it's a mainstream
school, but they are celebratingthe different language systems
and the different capacities ofevery child, because you don't
have to come out um, baked in acertain way at the end of the
school year, of the, of the, youknow, year 12 or whatever it is
(56:47):
.
So, and it's just a shame thatyou know, and it it is very um,
I see it more in certaincultures than others that you
know that whole academicachievement or to grow up and
have a family, the way you know,mr Johns down the street has
(57:08):
one, which is you know what isit?
Male-female couple, twochildren, a dog, white picket
fence.
Those days they're changing andI think the more we can show
parents that you know it's okay,this is your journey, and how
wonderful you've got this childin your world.
(57:29):
Now your learning is going tobegin, because they're going to
be able to show you things thatyou would have never had if you
didn't have this child in yourlife.
It doesn't matter who thatchild is, what their superpowers
are right and this superpowers.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (57:44):
It's really interesting because I
think both I really feel likeboth stories are true at the
same time, but I want to bereally honouring of adults and
people with disability that yes,there is grief but it's really
(58:05):
because of the way the world isdesigned in that way Structured?
Yeah, and I also wanted to tiethis back in a little bit with
the story about how kind of itfeels a little bit for me like
I'm coming full circle and hereI am talking to a speech
pathologist on a podcast.
(58:26):
When the last time I wasspeaking to a speech pathologist
I would have been four and Iwas nonverbal and I would speak
in vowels.
I could not hear consonants.
So when it was I want a puppy,I would say I want a puppy.
I'm sure the speech pathologistcan understand that my parents
(58:52):
would take me to the speechpathologist.
We didn't have much money.
They would have to book adouble session because all I
would do for the first half hourwould be go.
That was the extent of mycommunication skills.
I'm sure that caused my parentsa certain degree of grief,
(59:13):
because it would have been niceif I'd been much more socially
adept.
I learned, but I was basicallysurrounded by love and there was
never any doubt that my parentsloved me and cared about me and
accepted me so I just thinkthat's a really nice story about
(59:37):
having come in full circle yesand having overcome all sorts of
significant communicationdisabilities.
And here we are today.
Dana Baltutis (59:49):
And you're talking with me, like you said,
on the podcast as well, as youuse language and speech in your
daily craft.
Yes, Amazing, amazing.
So in an article in PsychologyToday, I read when you have a
(01:00:10):
child with special needs, yourmarriage is much more likely to
be stressed.
This is demonstrated by thenumbers.
Surveys show that the rate ofdivorce in families with a child
with disabilities may be ashigh as 87%.
The divorce rate in familieswith a child with autism is
about 80%.
(01:00:31):
I was quite astonished aboutthat.
Maybe that was a few years ago.
Maybe it's becoming less now.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (01:00:39):
I haven't checked the statistics.
There can be enormous pressuresput on relationships when
you're dealing with behavioursthat are intense and when you're
(01:01:00):
dealing with all of the sensorysensitivities that could go
with autism.
When you're dealing withdifficulties in being able to
regulate emotions, and alsobecause autism is so highly
heritable, there is often thefact that there may well be one
(01:01:21):
or both parents who also havetheir own issues.
So it's like dealing with thisadded stress is difficult
because it's so important tomake sure you get some down time
you get a break from theparenting in order to manage, to
(01:01:44):
calm yourself, to have enoughenergy to keep going to be the
best parent you can be, so thisis not a life sentence.
This is not.
This is absolutely what's goingto happen to me give up now I'd
hate people to walk awaythinking, that's the case, it's
more like hey, it's almost like,say, you're driving along and
(01:02:08):
the petrol gauge on your car isgoing towards empty and you know
, hey, we're getting to a dangerzone here.
This information is going togive you the warning that I'm
going to need to get some moresupports in place.
Dana Baltutis (01:02:24):
And I think society is recognising these
numbers and I know that peopleare gaining more help.
I've seen on social media andmyself I've got a program for
parent coaching.
There's more and more parentcoaching coming through because
they're realising that, oh, hangon, it's not just about the
(01:02:47):
child that needs support, it'sthe actual parents.
And I do have hope because,again, I'm hoping that the
education system and healthsystem change whereby we are
becoming more neurodivergent,sensitive and accepting, and so
(01:03:08):
then that burden doesn't just goon the parents to be
championing what their childneeds, because even through like
the NDIS, they need to proveevery year to the NDIS that
their child needs support.
I mean, that could be very,very draining and you know
that's almost like yep, I'vestill got the child that needs
(01:03:30):
support.
So it's more from a disability,not an abilities model.
Unfortunately, at the momentthat's the way the government
system is funding children.
The NDIS has given a lot ofhope and a lot of great programs
to different children andfamilies and people, but I think
(01:03:51):
that fact that we've got tokeep on proving the disability
and proving the limitations andchallenges, that would be very
wearing for that relationship aswell, and I've spoken to
friends and other clients whosay it's basically a full-time
job.
Yes.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (01:04:11):
Making sure that these supports are in
place?
Dana Baltutis (01:04:13):
Yes, yeah, and that would be extremely, because
finances anyway in the familybudgeting is stressful, but when
you've got to budget and thenprove and then show evidence and
then do something that'sreasonable and necessary, that's
very difficult.
So what about neurodivergentcouples, robyn?
How do they navigaterelationships and is there any
(01:04:35):
help out there for them?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (01:04:41):
I think there is a really good podcast
called Neurodivergent Women.
There is a really good podcastcalled Neurodivergent Women,
which is Michelle Livestock andMonique Mitchelson I'm not sure
if I've got Michelle's surnamecorrect, but they do really,
really supportive work of acouple of seasons for people.
(01:05:06):
Seasons for people.
The real benefit at the momentis that I think we're on this
wave of sort of increasinginformation.
There's a lot of stories aboutpeople who are late diagnosed,
who are coming out, who areadvocating for this, in that,
(01:05:27):
yes, this is a disability andit's a difference and there
needs to be.
It's only a disability becauseof the way the world is society
yep, yep, and I think gettinginto listening to that podcast
would be a really good firststep.
I'm got inspired, since you'veasked me to do this podcast with
(01:05:49):
you, to build theNeurodivergent Couples Academy,
which is my latest passionproject of getting some
self-help materials that peoplewill be able to buy, to do a
program to help themselves inthat way, because there's just
too many people for me to seeface-to-face in the therapy room
(01:06:13):
I want to make sure that therecan be the opportunity.
Dana Baltutis (01:06:17):
That they can access information?
Yeah, Absolutely.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (01:06:21):
So there's a lot of information that's
just starting to come through,which is really positive.
Dana Baltutis (01:06:28):
So, which is an exciting space you know to be in
and then hopefully, with thatinformation and that help some
of these numbers that we readout they'll start going down,
down, down, because people willhave more support and more help
and more understanding.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (01:06:44):
And more advocacy.
Yes, I really like the sayingthat comes around within people
in the autistic community thatsay god, well, you know what
life would be like if we left itto the neurotypicals?
Yes, you'd still be sittingaround in the caves, you know
nothing would be true, you know,there'd be no inventions,
(01:07:05):
there'd be nobody working hardenough to design music, no,
amazing musicians, artists, yeah.
Yeah, so this is very much likelet's focus on the strengths and
when it comes to if you'vefallen in love with somebody
who's neurodivergent, you'recelebrating their absolute
(01:07:26):
strengths and it's part of thepackage deal that they've got
some vulnerabilities or someareas that they're not as good
at.
And then it's like you knowwhat, if I look at myself, I'm
not perfect at everything either.
No, so let's just operate fromthat way.
Dana Baltutis (01:07:45):
That's beautiful.
So, Robyn, wrapping up, howcould parents who are in fragile
relationships empowerthemselves and look after
themselves?
What would be two or threethings that you could suggest to
parents?
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (01:08:06):
Wow, wow, I think really give themselves
permission to just take a littlebit of time out and find
something that will give themjoy and that might be giving
themselves the time, even ifit's 10 minutes, to say I'm
(01:08:26):
going to go here, or I'm goingto go to the beach, or I'm going
to have my quiet cup of tea bymyself, just this moment of calm
for yourself, because so oftenit's like you get this huge list
of to-dos and that can bereally problematic.
(01:08:48):
So, getting a little bit oftime, a small moment.
Dana Baltutis (01:08:54):
And even if it's uncomfortable to do that, to
break through your comfort zoneand do it, because once you've
done it you will feel better.
Because some people find it, oh, but I haven't got time, I
can't make time, it's just notpossible, and you think, just
just do it.
Yeah, because once you've doneit you'll be like I've got even
(01:09:17):
more time now I've got moreenergy to do those things that
before I did.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (01:09:21):
That you know for myself yeah, and the
other thing that's really goodis to practice the habit of
being grateful, because alwaysit's easy to see all the bad
things in the relationship, butnothing is ever totally bad.
There's always certain littlemoments that oh what about this
(01:09:46):
thing?
So I think really deliberatelyseeking out moments that you can
be grateful for, that you seeas positive with your partner.
And that's from the old specialeducator in me of almost catch
the kid being good and focus onthat rather than focus on all
the things they're doing wrong.
(01:10:12):
You want a third one?
Yeah, I want a third one.
I think I don't know if I cancome up with a third one.
Probably start Googling andlook at reading some really
reputable self-help materials,yeah.
Dana Baltutis (01:10:24):
Okay, so what I'll ask you to do, robin.
We'll exchange emails afterthis and maybe you can send me
some references I can put on thesession notes for people,
because then at least they cannot only access your website but
they can also have a look andsee in the session notes.
You know maybe two referencesthat you would recommend as a
(01:10:46):
starting point.
I know you've mentioned a fewtoday.
Wow, robin, that was amazing.
Um, I learned a lot and I justlove talking to you.
I love your energy, I love yourstyle, I love who you are, what
you represent and, um, uh, Ijust love.
I'm waiting for that neuroneurodivergent Couples Academy
(01:11:10):
to come out, because I thinkthat will be so amazing for so
many I think, not onlyneurodivergent people, but for
other people who have just gotchallenges in their
relationships and maybe they'vegot their own perception and
things like that.
So, thank you so so much forcoming on the podcast and I just
(01:11:33):
love working with like-mindedpeople.
Robyn Blake-Mortimer (01:11:36):
Thank you, it's been my absolute pleasure
and thank you so much toeveryone who's tuned in to
listen to this, because it'sbeen an absolute delight that
I've been able to talk about mypassion project and feel so
comfortable about this.
Dana Baltutis (01:11:51):
Thank you, thank you so much.
Thank you, robyn.
Popular Podcasts
1. Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
2. Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
3. Crime Junkie
If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people.