What I've Learned From 10 Years of Podcasting: Season 12 Finale!

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
Thank you, hello and welcome.

(00:34):
My name is Tom.
This is the Enthusiasm Project,season 12, episode 10, the
season finale.
We finally hit the finale andit kind of also marks sort of a
special anniversary-ishsituation.
So that's what we're going tobe talking about today, because
2024, for me personally marks my10-year podcast-iversary the

(00:56):
first time I started makingpodcasts 10 years ago, which is
just a total coincidence, andI'm going to lean into that
coincidence.
So that's what we're going totalk about today.
A couple things to take care offirst, though before that, of
course, we need to talk aboutgear, as the law dictates.
So today I am back on the LewittRay.
This is my corner desk setupwhere I'm recording, now running

(01:17):
into the Rodecaster Duo.
I've been using the RodecasterPro 2 sort of at my middle desk
when Heather and I are here forthe last two episodes.
So when there's more than oneperson, it's easy to set that up
, but when it's just me, I liketo be over here, and the Ray has
been my mic.
That's just been over at thedesk for a while now, which I
quite enjoy.
So that's what you're listeningto and it's into the Rodecaster

(01:38):
Duo on the SM7B preset, whichis that's.
That's a dynamic mic preset andthis is not a dynamic mic.
But if I turn that off, this isthe the Raise Natural sound,
which is actually still quitegood.
Lewitt mics always sound goodand then when I turn on the
preset, I just kind of like theway that it cleans things up a
little bit there.
For some reason, the SM7Bpreset in the Rodecasters and

(02:02):
the you know and all of themhonestly, is pretty much one of
my favorites.
So the other one now I'm justgoing to go here for funsies was
the Broadcaster.
There we go.
That just needed a second tokick in.
And now this is the Broadcasterpreset, which I'm actually this
is more for a condenser.

(02:22):
I'm kind of liking this one alittle more in the sm7b.
So let's, let's hang out on theroad broadcaster preset, even
though I'm the lewitt ray and Iwas actually so sitting right in
front of me at my desk.
For the past I don't know monthand a half has been the lewitt
connect 2, which was justannounced recently.
It's very simple.
They call it a two channel isreally a single channel audio
interface.

(02:42):
You could just connect an XLRconnection and an instrument
connection.
So that's why it says two, eventhough there's only one XLR,
but it's a great little simpleinterface.
I really like it.
I'm planning to do a video on it.
I'm just I've been using it forlike a month and I just want to
keep using it before making avideo on it, because I think
that it's really cool, but Ididn't want to use it.

(03:06):
I was going to use it today butI, you know, I like the
Rodecaster all in one.
I can play the music and doeverything and record internally
right there.
It's just it's always tough tobeat that.
So, anyway, that is the setuptoday.
But speaking of brands andsending things and all that, I
do have a couple of listenermessages from Gil, believe it or
not, basically like unofficialco-host at this point.

(03:27):
So Gil has two messages on twoslightly different topics, and
the first one is a response tolast week's episode of Heather
and I talking, you know, toshill or not to shill and
working with brands and all ofthat hullabaloo happening with
brands.
So I have double checkedSpeakPipe.
This time it should work on thefirst click.
Let's see.

(03:48):
Take it away, gil.

Speaker 2 (03:51):
Hey Tom, this is Gil.
I hope all is well.
I really enjoyed this week'sepisode, today's Monday, may 6th
, your most recent one, season12, episode niner, I think.
All in great episode, greatdiscussion, you and heather uh,
what I wanted to say was what Ireally resonated with was, with

(04:11):
you, what you said at the end ofthe episode in regards to how
brands will reach out to acreator and ask them or tell
them gee, gill, I love yourvideos.
Your videos are fantastic.
You, the way you create content, it's phenomenal.
And they'll give us all thesepraise and accolades and then,
immediately when you startworking with them, they'll tell

(04:32):
you well, can you not do that?
Can you say this?
Can you like take this off?
Can you buy a piece ofequipment to compare it to?
Which happened to me recently?
It is crazy and for me, itresonated to me even deeper
because, quite frankly, this ishow a lot of the clients that I
have been working with respondto me.
They love the way I createcontent, they love my lighting

(04:56):
and my cameras and everythinglike that, but then, when they
end up hiring me, they want meto do everything that is not me.
They want me to create thingsthat I do not like or resonate
with at all, and I just thoughtit was pretty funny that even
brands and clients do that.
They like you but they don'tlike you.

(05:16):
They like what you can do forthem because you're dope.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
Thanks, gil.
I appreciate the message.
I also really appreciate yourbrand voice, your brand
impression voice.
It's fantastic.
This is a good point.
This is something I brought upat the end of last week's
episode talking about workingwith brands, which is that
sometimes a brand will approacha creator and say hey, we love
what you do, we want to be onyour channel because of how you

(05:44):
do things and you know they,they compliment you very much.
It's like okay, cool.
And then, especially if it's apaid thing, where, if they have
any sort of creative input whichI've avoided using the ethics
statement but if you're doing aclient creator relationship or
you are working with a brand ina paid capacity and they do have
some sort of you know, creativeinput in one way or another.

(06:04):
It is funny how quickly goingfrom like we want to work with
you turns into like we'll justdo this, that and the other
thing and part of that, I think,is just obliviousness on part
of the brand, unfortunately.
But the other part, I do thinkis it is that they don't really
care about you and what you'redoing and what you're building.
They care about your audiencein terms of they want to be in

(06:26):
front of your audience andyou're a means to that end.
So that's kind of what happensthere.
It's such a weird thing and,like Gil even mentioned some
brands going like hey, we lovewhat you do, we want to support
you.
Can you just buy this otherexpensive gear to compare it to
our piece of gear?
No, now, not only are you notpaying me, it to our piece of

(06:46):
gear, no, no, not only are younot paying me, but now I'm
paying to make a video for you.
No, but those are all thingsthat, especially you know, when
you've been doing this a while,it becomes easier to like see
the matrix and you understandwhat's happening in these
situations.
But when you're a newer creator, and especially if you're just
starting to grow to the pointthat you're starting to get
brand emails, especially if theyhappen to be from brands that

(07:07):
you know and recognize.
That's really when it becomes areally tough thing to navigate
and you're not quite sure howother people are handling it.
It's almost like this is areason why there should be some
sort of group or something wherecreators in these situations

(07:27):
these, you know, small businesssized creators can get together
and collaborate.
That's a good answer.
And the last point, too I havebeen thinking about this a lot
recently where Gil was likepeople hire me because they like
what I do, but then they wantto change everything.
It's a little different thanthe brand thing, because this
could be a client and I havedealt with this multiple times.

(07:47):
And it's so funny because I wasjust thinking about this.
I have my channel.
I've made hundreds of videos onmy channel.
They're pretty specific interms of style and tone.
You know they've evolved overtime, but they're pretty.
You kind of know what you'regetting when you click on one of
my videos.
And I've had, like clientsapproach me that want to hire me
for other projects and that'skind of what they say we want

(08:08):
you to make your video, but justfor us, like on this topic here
or you know whatever, and thatsounds great.
And then it is like, okay, cool, I will make one of my videos
talking about this topic.
And usually it's for.
Sometimes it's maybe for adifferent YouTube channel, or
it's for even not a YouTubething, it's for, like an
internal use at a company orsomething Whatever.

(08:28):
It's been all kinds ofdifferent things like that over
the years.
But then I make my video, sendit in and then there's a whole
bunch of changes to it.
And what I realized is I wasworking on an assumption.
When they said we want you tomake your video, you know one of
your videos.
But for us I kind of assumedthat we knew what each other was

(08:49):
talking about.
When they said one of my videos, like what one of my videos is?
Because I know what that is,they clearly have an idea or an
impression.
But I failed to clearly talklike, hey, when you say one of
my videos, like what do you mean?
What is you know?
What do you think of?
Or what are you?
What are you really going forwhen you're talking about one of
my videos, like let's be on thesame page about that, and then

(09:12):
that, I think, is something thatcan help people you know avoid
these situations, because, asthe creator, realistically it's
so tricky.
No one is ever going to goingto like almost not give you
feedback, and this is a thing.
That that this is almost goinginto a different point, but this
is something.
It's a reason why I'm alwaysvery careful when I ask for

(09:33):
feedback about something,because sometimes when you share
something with someone and youask for feedback, they almost
feel obligated to give some sortof critical feedback.
Not that I don't want that helpif I'm asking for it.
If I'm not asking for it, Idefinitely don't want it, but if
I'm asking for it, obviously Iam looking for things.
But sometimes it's like youknow, you painted a wall blue

(09:58):
and someone's going to tell youto paint it red because they
just need to offer a suggestion,not because it's the better
choice, or maybe they want topaint it black, I don't know.
And what I mean by that issometimes you make a thing and
you share it with someone andyou say, hey, like I made this,
I'm thinking about this.
Can you take a look at it andtell me what you think?
People often forget that that'salready a version.

(10:19):
That's already something thatyou've put time, energy and
thought into you, that you'veput time, energy and thought
into.
You've probably already revisedit, hopefully at least several
times yourself.
So the thing they're seeing isnot the raw dough you know, it's
not unformed, just the rawfootage straight out of the
camera or anything.
It's already an edited piece.
And so sometimes I think peoplecan be almost too quick to

(10:41):
suggest changes or be criticalor whatever, not because it
actually benefits the thing, butjust because they feel like
I've been asked to give feedback, so I need to give some
feedback.
If they say, oh, it looks great,they might be worried about
feeling like they're not payingattention or they're not being
helpful enough, when sometimesthat is the correct answer.
And I think that even doubleswhen you're talking about

(11:02):
someone who's doing this in apaid capacity.
They've hired you to dosomething.
You've made a video.
It's kind of almost likewhether or not the video needs
any changes.
They're going to say some kindof change because then it's like
you know they're doing theirjob.
I don't know.
That's just sort of a thing.
I do have another message,another listener message.
Guess who it is?
It's Gil again.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
I landed that joke.
Hey, tom, this is Gil again.
So I just wanted to share aquick story about working with
two different brands.
One brand I genuinely andauthentically created a video
about their product that wasjust about to come out the
Elgato prompter and Elgatoreached out to me or one of the
representatives did and sent mean Elgato prompter.

(11:52):
It was dope.
Then I continued to use it.
I didn't.
I don't think I.
I have never made a review forthe Elgato prompter, just as a
fact.
I just would share me using it,share how my clients use it
when they're doing remotepodcast in my home studio, and I
started just sharing meproducing podcasts with it.

(12:13):
And then Elgato reached out andsaid hey, we would like to send
you more stuff to just try out.
Send me a mic, send me a micarm.
They actually sent me theElgato low profile arms that I
own now and it was just allgenuine.
It was all just pure honesty.
I was under no obligation tomake a video Still haven't

(12:33):
really made a video on theprompter, by the way, but I
worked with this other brand andthey were very pushy to the
point where they made me feellike a nine to five employee
checking in every moment thatthey can.
Hey how's the video doing?

(12:53):
It's like, what?
Like?
I'm going to send your thingback if you don't leave me alone
.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
All right, sorry, I was laughing again at the brand
voice.
This is my favorite.
Please read all emails in thisvoice.
Gil's brand voice is the bestnow.
This is such a good example ofhow these things can differ, not
only from brand to brand butsometimes, depending on the
brand, from creator to creator,so two different creators can
have very differing experienceswith the same brand the

(13:24):
authentic thing.
So Elgato is great.
They've offered to send methings, but I haven't accepted
any of their stuff.
Just, I don't know.
A lot of it is because, like,when the prompter comes out, I'm
so excited about it I just wantto pre-order it and get it.
Like I don't want to try tolike talk to anyone at the
company and some of the otherstuff too.
A lot of it is just like it'sso affordable, I just figure if

(13:47):
I can just buy that, and thenwhen something else that maybe
is a little bit beyond my budgetcomes out from them or a
different brand, that's thething they could send me to make
it more accessible.
But they're so good and sosupportive and communicative.
They jump in the commentsection of my videos and like
offer customer support and likeclarifications for things.
It's great and that's how itshould be.

(14:08):
And they're so smart, like fromfrom a brand point of view, so
from a creator point of view,you can build authentic
relationships like you can, andwhen a company is good, you can
kind of tell because you sort ofhave the same contact at that
company for a number of years,versus sometimes you'll talk to
a company and every time youtouch base with them there's a
new person in that role.
It's usually a bad sign, butyou know, I know companies like

(14:31):
El Cato and Rode and like theones that I work with.
They've all had pretty much thesame people for ages and I feel
like that's a really good signfor those companies.
And you can build authenticrelationships with them Doesn't
mean you say yes to everything.
Doesn't mean you, you know thatyou give them any control over
stuff.
But you know they can begenuinely excited about what you

(14:52):
do.
And in the case of Elgato, thisis so smart we're, you know
we'll just send you stuffbecause you like our stuff,
we're going to support you.
But they also know, from thebusiness point of view, if you
have these things I mean, howmany times do those low profile
arms show up in your videos showup in your stories, show up in
behind the scenes tours.
No, you've never done a reviewon the prompter, but you should

(15:15):
talk about the prompter.
You've sure shown it as anoption of something to use,
which in a lot of ways, isprobably better than just a
regular review that you mightexpect from someone when a
company sends them something.
So that is incredibly smart.
A couple years ago, man it makesme sad that this was almost two
years ago, but when PeterLindgren came over and stayed

(15:36):
with us for a bit, he and Ispent a couple days in LA and I
tagged along on this meetingwith I think it was a Sony rep,
it might've been a Tamron rep, Idon't remember, Maybe it was
more Tamron, and they wereawesome and they were just kind
of like it was someone Peter hadworked with for a long time,
you know, living in Sweden, andhe was over here and they wanted

(15:57):
to set up a dinner and I wasbasically the Uber driver, so I
got to tag along, but so I waskind of a little bit out of
place there.
But I was listening to themtalk and Peter's great, because
he just doesn't he doesn't holdany punches, like you know the
person who says like I don'tcare.
You know, I'm going to say whatI say about the brand.
If they're happy about it,they're happy.

(16:18):
If they're not, they're not.
That's definitely him, andTamron has been great.
But the thing he was saying wasI think it's Sony.
When they send out lenses andstuff, he was actually like
criticizing them for being sotouchy with like you get two
weeks to have it and then youship it back and you know that's
it.
And he's like that's not enoughtime to make quality content

(16:40):
about it.
It's not enough time to fullyunderstand the piece of
technology.
And what you've done is you'vegiven me a lens that I might
look at, I might like and it'scool, but I'm going to send it
back to you and completelyforget about it.
Versus, if you let someone keepit, that means it's going to be
in their setup for a while andthey're not going to forget

(17:02):
about it.
It's going to be on the shelfand it might be like hey, I need
to do something.
This would be perfect.
And it could then be that thingthat then shows up in a studio
tour, shows up in a camera bagoverview, shows up just in the
comments when someone says, hey,you know what lens or whatever
did you use to do this?
Like, oh, the blah, blah, blahand I know that's like that
doesn't go in the face of youknow everything we talked about

(17:24):
last week and the ethicsstatement and everything, but
it's just sort of those likechannel.
And it was when they werestarting to do some higher end

(17:46):
ND filters.
They sent me those and theysent the Peter McKinnon one.
They said like pretty muchevery time a new version of
those comes out, they send thembecause they know that I like
them.
I did make a video about themlike six years ago, otherwise I
never have.
I really like the filters.
I feel that there's something Ican talk about now.
There's something I would Ihave spent my own money on in
the past and there's somethingthat when people ask, hey, what

(18:10):
ND to use, I tell them thoseones because those are the ones
that I use.
But it's like for me I've beenable to not only save money on
gear, which is nice, but I'vebeen able to build up my
knowledge on gear, because priorto that it was like I'm just
gonna buy the cheap Amazonvariable ND filter.
It has the crazy, you know Xpattern and it's not great image

(18:31):
quality.
But you know what is thedifference?
Why would I spend a couplehundred bucks versus $60 on a
filter?
Now I know, and now I feel likeI can speak to that a little
more genuinely and authenticallyand knowledgeably because of
that.
So there is a way to do that.
And then there's the pushy brandthing.
Excuse me, there I had thisrecently with OBSBot.

(18:53):
I thought it was OBSBot, but Ithink it's OBSBot.
I'm just going to say who itwas, because they are kind of
notoriously pushy.
They had reached out and Ididn't.
I was actually curious abouttheir cameras, because it's like
a lot of PTZ webcams and livestreaming things and they've
been around a long time and it'skind of you know, it's one of

(19:14):
those cases where it's like theproducts seem good but the
company is just a little pushyand I was kind of like but I'm
not really like a webcam guy, ifI was still teaching online I
would maybe be a little moreinto that Always kind of curious
about that sort of technology,but not really enough to kind of

(19:34):
deal with the pushiness, and soI said no, thank you.
And then I think they had triedto reach out again and I just
was like, look, I said no, soI'm just not answering these
emails.
Well, they went so far as tothen start DMing other people
whose videos I commented on onYouTube, like they would see
someone else that maybe theywork with.
I comment on their video theyknow that we must know each

(19:56):
other and then they startemailing that person to get in
touch with me.
Like, come on, now I appreciate, like there's a way to do it
and that ain't it.
And it's like then I'mapologizing to people.
I'm so sorry You're, you knowyou're, you're dealing with this
.
So there's ways to do it,there's ways not to do it, you

(20:17):
know, and some of that I feellike I don't know I'm I'm
confused on how to feel aboutthat, but it's different than a
company like how Elgato wouldhandle it, for example.
All right, let's move in now.
We're 20 minutes deep into thisepisode.
We should probably talk aboutthe topic that the episode's
about, which is 10 things I'velearned from 10 years, not 10
things, sorry things I'velearned from 10 years of

(20:37):
podcasting.
I don't have a specific numberof things, I've just got a list
right here and it just was akind of a thing I was thinking
about.
It's been.
I've listened to podcasts formany, many years.
You know I wasn't one of thelike 2005 podcasters or whatever
you know like podcast listenersfrom the very beginning, but
around 2008,.
2009 was the first time I canremember actively, you know,

(21:00):
going on iTunes and downloadinga podcast to my iPod to listen
to in the car on the way to workand that kind of thing.
And then I started producingpodcasts in 2014, which just
happens to be 10 years ago.
And so I have this show, theEnthusiasm Project, which I
started in January of 2019.
So just over five years ago.

(21:21):
This is 170, some odd episodesstrong at this point.
I also have the couples tablewith Heather, which we started
in 2020 after we got married, sothat's coming up on just about
four years and we're 140-ishepisodes into that one.
I had my podcast with PeterLindgren, appropriately called A
Podcast with Peter and Tom.
We did that in like 2021-ishfor about 25 episodes, something

(21:49):
I would really love to do againand bring back, especially now
that Peter has his studiofinished and built out.
And then I have the Ska podcast, which ended up being more of a
mini series of you know, likeseven episodes.
So those are like the personalones where I've been a host or a
co-host on a podcast.
I've been fortunate enough overthe years to be invited on many.
I don't even know honestly howmany.
I should have like kept track,but I really don't know.

(22:11):
So I've been on other people'sshows a lot, which is kind of
cool to be in the guest seat andyou know, especially when it's
remote.
It's cool to do it in personbecause you can see how other
people do stuff you know inperson.
But it's cool to do it remoteas well because then you can
kind of get a feel, for you knowwhat it's like to be an Ecamm
guest or a Riverside guest orwhatever.

(22:33):
You'd be on the other side ofthat, and that I feel like
that's a good thing in terms ofjust building up your knowledge.
Then when you invite someone onyour show, you can kind of tell
them what to expect and knowwhat it's going to be like for
them.
But prior to that, from 2014 towell I guess, till COVID really

(22:53):
, I produced podcasts for schooldistricts and that's where it
really started.
Even taking it back maybe alittle bit further, I started
teaching digital media in 2012was when I moved from English to
digital media and the digitalmedia programs that I taught.
Our students competed in thesenational competition
organizations.
One of them was calledSkillsUSA.
It's been around forever.
Maybe you've heard about it.
It's basically vocationalcompetition but it's like every

(23:15):
career field and they primarilyfocus more on like traditional
trades, so things likeelectrical, you know, electrical
installation, traditionaltrades, so things like
electrical installation, hvacrepair, automotive engineering,
welding.
But they've been branching outinto more of the non I shouldn't
say non-traditional, but moreof like the media and modern

(23:39):
things over the years.
So they do have an audio radioproduction competition that I
had a couple teams of studentsparticipate in every year.
Competition that I had a coupleteams of students participate in
every year and my studentstended to do pretty well.
They would usually do well atour local regional competition.
I had students win the statecompetition for California
several times, compete at thenational level, but we never won
nationals.
So it always makes me laughwhenever I like watch episodes

(24:02):
of Glee and they're always whichis an old show but they're
always talking like we need todo regionals and semi regionals
and whatever, and it's like Ialways feel like that's what I'm
talking about when I wastalking about the student
competitions, but it was cool,but that was.
They would usually be givenprompts.
So it was more like trainingthem for traditional radio,
maybe a little bit outdated.
It was cool because sometimesthey'd get to go to radio

(24:32):
stations and shadow people orintern a little bit.
But the stuff that they wouldmake for practice would sort of
be like mock radio shows, notreally veering into podcast
territory, especially becausethey are underage.
So there's only so much stuffto share publicly.
And you know, believe it or not, a lot of kids who are, you
know, 14, 15, 16 years old notmost of them, don't always have
the skills to, you know, hostlong form podcast series.

(24:55):
Believe it or not, some do, butit's definitely pretty rare.
So it was, it was more likemock episodes of things and
their competitions would beusually involving, like you know
here's do, a 30 or 60 secondpromo for something, followed up
by you know, a five minute NPRstyle show that they would put
together some interviews andsound beds and all that kind of

(25:16):
stuff.
So that was kind of where itstarted.
Obviously, like I was listeningto podcasts, I'd wanted to
create podcasts, never reallykind of knew what the heck to
make a podcast about.
And the school district I wasworking for at the time was the
communications director had aweekly radio show.
So I think one of the localstations donated time.
She would go on like I think itwas like every Tuesday night or

(25:38):
something, and have an hourlong show to like interview
people and you know it's kind oflike district propaganda time a
little bit.
But it was also interestingbecause it's like you know I'd
have like a cafeteria directorfrom a school talking about
school lunches, which is likewe've all been to school and all
kind of like think we know, youknow what cafeteria and lunch
ladies are like and everything.
But when you hear about wait,like how do you feed 2000 people

(26:02):
multiple times a day, five daysa week, how do you like it's
kind of interesting.
It's a little more fascinatingthan you might expect.
So it's kind of cool.
But, believe it or not, thelocal radio station shut down
and she was going to have togive up her show.
We were kind of you know she dida lot of work with our program
to like promote stuff that we'redoing throughout local media

(26:25):
and everything, and the thing Ikept saying all the time was
like we have so much gear but wejust don't have the content.
Like we have the equipment, wehave the experience, we don't
have the content, which is sofunny because it's pre-YouTube.
So it's like pre-YouTube pre myown podcast.
It's just a funny thing that Iremember hearing myself saying,
but it was kind of true it waslike we have all this stuff, we
want to do stuff, we don'treally know I don't want to just
make like an episode ofsomething.

(26:46):
This was before I thought Icould ever make anything.
And you know, working withstudents, like what can they do?
And she's like, oh well, I'vegot like years of content.
I just need stuff to beproduced and so things kind of
linked up there and we were ableto.
I was able to have my studentsproduce her podcast, which I
believe is still running.
So I haven't been at thatspecific school for a long time

(27:15):
and then doing that did actuallyhelp me kick off some
student-hosted and producedpodcasts and then as other
schools kind of picked up onthis sort of helping other
schools get set up as well indifferent districts.
So that was sort of a thing aswell in different districts.
So that was sort of a thing.
That was the first podcast,though, that I really hands-on
had to piece together theequipment.
I built a Squarespace website,had to do the RSS feed manually

(27:35):
because I didn't know.
I don't know what other optionsthere were 10 years ago.
I'm sure there were simplerones, but that was kind of the
way I did it, which is why Inever want to do that again, and
I love things like Buzzsproutand, you know, anchor or Spotify
, whatever it's called now,because that is it's just so
much better.
So that's kind of like.
That's sort of where I startedproducing podcasts was for

(27:59):
school districts, and that wassuch a cool learning experience.
And especially, it was kind ofcool because 2014 podcasting was
not as saturated as it is now,especially like the educational
podcast market, and so I canactually see our little show
like bouncing around the top 100charts on.
I think it was still iTunes atthe time.

(28:21):
I don't think it was calledlike Apple Podcasts or anything.
That was kind of cool and Ialways felt really good like
because the communicationsdirector who hosted it would
come in and be like hey, I sawthat we're like you know, we're
at number 36 this week orsomething, which is like kind of
awesome.
I don't know what that meant interms of actual listenership,
but it was cool and it showed methat something's working in it.

(28:43):
I guess if they're still doingit, it was working and students
got to actually work on a thing.
She would come in usually oneor two days a week after school
and bring in guests and studentswould record it and then
students would edit it over acouple of days and then she
would approve it and then Iwould do all the uploading and
everything and just kind ofoversee and double check
everything.
But when we started theuploading and everything and

(29:04):
just kind of oversee and doublecheck everything, but when we
started the initial thing wasjust piecing together gear, and
so this is now diving in that'ssort of my background on like
how I started making podcasts.
Now I want to dive into like,okay, so what have I learned
from those, all the way up tomaking my own shows, all the way
up to right now where I'msitting here recording this
podcast First lesson.

(29:24):
Okay, so, contrary to whatpeople say and I've talked about
this before big thing inYouTube and the creator world is
say gear doesn't matter.
I say gear doesn't not matter.
But so gear is very importantand gear definitely does matter.
But it should not stop you fromgetting started pretty decent

(29:52):
with what we have if we spendtime to learn how to use what we
have to the best of our ability.
So when I started producingthose school podcasts
fortunately we had someequipment.
I was only in my second orthird year teaching digital
media at that point so I hadn'tquite built out the full-on
crazy equipment studioexperience that it would become.
But we had some decent stuff.
We didn't have anypodcasting-specific things
become, but we had some decentstuff.

(30:12):
We didn't have any podcastingspecific things.
Roadcasters did not exist.
So what we did was I had abunch of Audio-Technica AT897s,
the microphone that I always sayis very an underrated shotgun
microphone, which is, you knowthat was for video production
and for booming and stuff.
But it was like this is what wegot.
So I went to Monoprice.
I bought just for my own moneya bunch of you know tabletop

(30:37):
gooseneck microphone stands.
We had a Zoom H4n.
I bought some cheap Monopriceheadphones, whole bunch of
cables.
I spent so much money on cablesover the years it was insane.
But I always use Monopricebecause this is like I don't
know Amazon, for better or worse, wasn't what it is today.
And then also, like MonopriceWarehouse is fairly close to
where we're at and their cables,at least at the time, were like
so inexpensive.
You could just get any kind ofcable, you know one end to any

(31:01):
kind of other end, or adapter orwhatever.
You could just get it there andI could usually get it in a day
or two.
So that was a lifesaver.
And then what I did was I justrigged up the AT897s running
into the Zoom H4n and it was somany like splitters and adapters
and then to run headphones outbecause we needed four mics.

(31:22):
So to run headphones out Iwould have actually we needed
five mics.
I forgot Because she wouldusually sometimes she would only
have one guest, so it would behost and a guest, but a lot of
times it would be three guests.
So, like you know, multipleteachers from a department or a
teacher and two students, youknow that kind of thing.
And then we had a fifthmicrophone which was like the
student producer, which was justkind of a fun thing because

(31:45):
when she hosted the radio showshe did the very common radio
thing of you know, talking tothe producer and having them
kind of be a part of the showand wanted to do that with the
student.
And it was a cool thing toshowcase, like, even if I was
there looking over the shoulder,especially at the beginning.
It was kind of a cool thing toshowcase like this is a student
produced thing and you can hearthe student producing it right
there.
And so, oh my God, I didn't.

(32:08):
I don't even know how all thisstuff worked, but I literally
would get like headphonesplitters, like multiple ones,
just stack them on each other,to have, you know, five sets of
headphones going out from theone Zoom H4n.
And then how the heck did I getall of the mics?
How did I get four mics?
Oh, we had a little, that'sright.
We had a little, uh, yamahamixer, one of the Yamaha MGs.

(32:30):
The mics went into that, theoutput from the Yamaha went into
the Zoom H4n.
And no, I lied, I'm totallylying right now.
We did not have the Yamaha.
That time we started with thehead from a PA system $100 PA
system I bought from GuitarCenter that had four inputs and
so the mics would go in there,the output from that would go
into the H4n and that's what werecord.

(32:51):
So that was.
It was literally just like whatdo we have in this room, which
already you know?
We had four mics and a PA headand a recorder.
So that's maybe more than a lotof people start with.
But none of it was dedicatedfor podcasting.
It was all equipment kind ofbeing used inappropriately to
make the show work and itsounded great, it like it really
worked quite well and we didthat for about a year.

(33:13):
And then we got a grant fromthe, from the school district,
because they they liked it.
So they gave us a grant to buymore equipment and that I've
talked about this before, butthat's where.
Then I was like, okay, we'regoing to get you know four SM7Bs
and Rode PSA1s and nicerheadphones and all that kind of
stuff and better cables, but Ididn't know again, there was no

(33:35):
Rodecaster.
I didn't know anything aboutthis.
So we're still runningeverything into the.
I did get a big Yamaha mixer atthat point, like a 16 channel
Yamaha MG mixer, and then thingswere still going into the.
I think we upgraded to a ZoomH5 at that point, which was fine
for the recorder, but I didn'tknow about, you know, preamps

(33:56):
and things and should have beenrunning into cloud lifters and
weren't.
And so we're really maxing outthese SM7Bs to try to get them
to sound good.
I didn't know about any of thatstuff at the time and so I was
kind of shocked when we upgradedquote unquote from the
Audio-Technica mics the SM7B andthe audio quality dipped at
first because it was like, wow,these don't sound nearly as good

(34:17):
as the other ones did.
Why, turns out, didn't knowthose things.
But all that being said, we didstart with what we have and you
know the thing is like what Ialways think of is like if
you're listening to this, youhave something to get started,
you must have a phone or acomputer or a tablet or
something, and those either havebuilt-in microphones and

(34:39):
internet access or the abilityto attach some kind of headset
microphone, lavalier microphone,usb microphone, whatever it is
to get started and actuallysound pretty decent, especially
if you just, you know, watch acouple tutorials about, you know
how to record audio intowhatever specific thing you have
.
You can get going withoutspending pretty much any extra

(35:00):
money, especially when you jumpinto something like, you know,
spotify for podcasters, which isfree it's what Anchor is called
now and you can get your showdistributed, uploaded and
distributed and hosted totallyfor free.
Don't have to do theSquarespace RSS thing, or you
could pay for hosting, you know,like using Buzzsprout, which is
what I use for my shows.
You could do that as well, butyou probably have everything you

(35:22):
need to get started right now.
It could be nice to upgradeover time, but so the gear does
matter, and so much of of it,though it when I say it
shouldn't like stop you fromgetting started.
It's like I was listening to apodcast the other day and this
was such a bummer.
It was somebody that I wasreally excited to listen to and
it was on kind of this obscurelittle podcast.

(35:42):
It was like a two-year-oldepisode, so it's still fairly
recent, and I was so excited Iclicked the episode and I don't
know how they recorded it, butbasically it was like they must
have used an app to just recorda phone call because it just
sounded like phone call levelquality.
It was something I could notlisten to an hour of,
unfortunately, because I wantedto hear it, but it was painful

(36:06):
to listen to and I know theperson running the podcast might
not have all the gear in theworld, but they obviously have a
phone and they could have maybedone a little more research and
a little more effort into howto use that effectively and get
decent audio, even if the wholething is being done on the phone
.
Like plug some kind of mic intoyour phone, go get the tiny mic

(36:26):
it's $9 on Amazon, use that,you know.
Plug that into your phone andthen, even if the other person
still sounds like a call-in show, at least that's only half the
show and not the whole show.
But again, with stuff like Idon't know, there's so many
different between OBS andSpotify and all that.
There's like so many free waysto have people call into a show,

(36:46):
so you can probably start withwhat you have as a good lesson
to learn and actually get prettydecent results, especially now.
But next lesson, going back tothe thing I had said about like
we have all the equipment, wedon't have content.
It's not that I couldn't haverecorded an episode or couldn't
pull students together to recordan episode.
It was like what is our actualplan?

(37:07):
What is the actual purpose here?
And something that I've heard Idon't know how many times I
mean honestly like I would neverhave to think about doing brand
deals ever if I had money forevery time.
I heard this one is people saymy friends and I are funny and
we should have a podcast.
People say my friends and Ishould host a show.
That's cool and that's acompliment and I'm sure that
things are very fun for you andyour friends hanging out.

(37:29):
Very rarely virtually neverdoes that actually translate to
being interesting to otherpeople to listen to, and it's
hard to kind of tell people that.
But just because people sayyou're funny or interesting or
that your friends are funny andentertaining, doesn't mean y'all
need to have microphones andrecord whatever you're talking

(37:50):
about, because people a lot oftimes when they're in groups
like that, they're horrific atcontextualizing.
So if you're in the group,things are funny and things make
sense and things are relevant,but if you're a listener, you
don't really know what anyone'stalking about.
You don't know the backstory,the context, any of that, and
people very rarely go out oftheir way to provide that stuff
and to you.

(38:11):
Know it's hugely important tocontextualize, bring someone in
and then share things with them,and you know just the like
we're just hanging out talkingas friends podcast, especially
in 2024.
I think that's kind of dead.
I think that was a thing.
It's almost like drones.
When drones first came out, youcould just film anything with a
crappy drone camera, but it wasin the sky and it looked really

(38:33):
cool and everybody loved it.
That's kind of the like grouphanging out podcast.
You know it's like.
There was a time where I waslike, wow, it sounds like a show
.
You know, crazy.
Same thing.
Like DSLRs can now do shallowdepth of field, so that's insane
that like a regular person cando that.
But those that novelty wearsoff over time and podcasting has
matured to a point where youkind of need more than just like

(38:58):
it's my friends and I hangingout and yeah.
So the way to do that is, tomake sure whatever idea you're
working with has legs.
I don't know a better way tosay this.
I always say make sure youridea has legs, and that my
benchmark for that is can youget past seven episodes?
Because that is the averagetime at which a podcast quits is

(39:20):
after seven episodes.
So do you have more than sevenideas?
Because it's cool to be like Iwant to start a you know, an
anime podcast.
I want to start a comedypodcast.
I want to do a true crimepodcast, all awesome, what did I
just knock something down?
Do you have enough ideas andepisodes to get past?
You know seven?
This is not talking aboutminiseries, which is an option

(39:43):
If you're like, hey, I want toexplore something, but it's you
know, I can do it in three orfour episodes and it's just.
I wanna make a show about thisone thing, and it's a mini
series.
That's different.
I'm sort of talking about youknow, a lot of people.
When they say I wanna do apodcast, they sort of mean I
wanna start making a show andcontinue making a show for as
long as possible, make a lot ofepisodes.

(40:03):
Okay, does that idea have legs?
I have.
This is going to sound likeshameless self-promotion, but I
am always full of shame.
I do have a course, all aboutthis.
It's called the Podcaster IdeaBook, because this is such a
huge problem.
And what the course does is itjust guides you through the same
ways to work with my studentsto come up with ideas, same

(40:23):
things I've done with myself tocome up with ideas, flesh them
out a little bit and evencompare.
Like you have multiple ideas,try to figure out which one to
focus on first, so you can go topodcasterideabookcom if you
want to check that out.
But you don't have to do that.
The thing, the important thing,that's just a tool to help you
figure out if your idea issomething that can last for more

(40:45):
than one episode or more thantwo episodes.
But the next lesson learned fromthat is that sometimes ideas do
just run their course and justbecause you feel that it's time
to end a show doesn't mean youhave failed or that anything's
wrong.
I mean I did.
You know, I did the Scottpodcast, which I intended to do

(41:05):
for a long time.
I did six or seven episodes andthen it was like I kind of
realized I had said everything Iwanted to say about that topic
and I was sort of done and so itended up.
It ended up accidentallybecoming a mini series that I
like a lot, but that wasn't whatI intended and I did feel like
I failed a little bit there.
Sometimes that happens andsometimes you know that that's
sort of an idea that I shouldhave worked harder to flesh out

(41:30):
when I was starting.
But other times you know, likeyou know, if you're doing an
interview-based show or whateverand you've done many, many
seasons of it, maybe you've justsort of covered it, maybe the
time has come, you know.
If you're not enjoying itanymore, if you don't feel like
the listeners are into it, oryou just don't have much more to
say on the topic, that'scompletely fine.

(41:51):
Sometimes ideas run their course.
It doesn't mean you can't comeback to them.
It doesn't mean you can't dosomething else.
In my podcast or idea bookcourse, one thing I talk about
is choosing between ideas.
Sometimes it's hard to find anyidea, but sometimes you end up
with you know three or four andyou don't know which one to
focus on.
And the thing that I try toremind everyone in the course is

(42:11):
that just because you're notfocusing on something now
doesn't mean the idea is goneforever.
So if you're choosing between acouple ideas and you pick one
over the other, you can do thatone and if that ends up running
its course at some point you canalways come back to that other
idea that you had.
So you know, you're not alwayspermanently shutting the door on
things, but sometimes thingsjust run their course.

(42:32):
The podcast Peter and I did Ithink we did close to 30
episodes of that which,considering we live on opposite
sides of the planet, it wasquite an accomplishment and
eventually we just we didn'tofficially like stop doing it.
It just it just became verydifficult to fit it into our
schedules because essentially ithas to be early in the morning
for one of us and later in theday for the other, kind of no

(42:54):
matter how we flip it, and soscheduling that is tough and it
just kind of became tough.
But you know, that's somethingthat, like, we would both love
to continue to do.
And now I'm hoping you know,hopefully, that Peter has his
own home studio.
It might be something that's alittle more possible.
He doesn't have to drive 40minutes to get to a place where
he can record, and if we'rerecording an episode.

(43:16):
I'm not I'm stealing him fromhis family or something at the
end of the day, you know.
So you know stuff comes andgoes.
Things ebb and flow.
That's all very natural, don't?
You know?
Don't live and die by that Ishould have mentioned before
going into this.
I'm not talking aboutmonetization at all.
It has been 10 years ofpodcasting.
I know diddly squat aboutmonetizing podcasts.

(43:38):
I know you can put ads onpodcasts.
I don't really know how thatworks.
I have done one sponsoredseason of a podcast and I know
how I set that up, which waslike I get money and then every

(43:59):
episode includes a quick ad readat the beginning and the end.
That was kind of the deal thereand that was season eight was a
sponsored season.
I just wanted to try it out,see if I could do it.
I did it.
I decided I didn't want to doany more sponsored stuff on the
podcast.
You could do ad reads.
Obviously I don't know, I don'tknow this stuff it the podcast.
You could do ad reads.
Obviously I don't know, I don'tknow this stuff.
It's not a thing I incorporateinto my podcasting.
I'm horrific at marketingpodcasts, horrific at monetizing
podcasts.
I do podcasts because I like itand it's a fun.

(44:21):
You know it is like a hobby tome, in addition to the other
stuff that I do, so I meant tomake that disclaimer earlier.
We ain't talking aboutmonetization today, but what we
are talking about, the nextlesson I've learned say you
start out with your phone, sayyou jump into.
You know I wanna do this forfree.
I'm gonna sign up for Spotifyfor podcasters and then for one
reason or another, you decideyou wanna switch hosts.

(44:42):
Maybe you get really into yourshow and you jump into a paid
service and then your financialsituation changes you and then
your financial situation changes.
You can't afford that hostinganymore, but you don't want to
stop doing your show.
So now you need to move tosomething like Spotify where
it's free Switching hosts.
This is where it is sodifferent than the world of
YouTube.
It is surprisingly easy toswitch podcast hosts.

(45:03):
I have done it and nobodynoticed other than me talking
about it.
It's something you can dowithout your listeners being
interrupted at all.
Every podcast host allows youto redirect feeds to a different
host and essentially all you dois you sign up for a different
service, add your podcast, youget a new RSS feed and then you

(45:24):
go to your current host andeverything has.
I think it's a 403 redirect iswhat it's called.
I can't remember exactly, butyou just but you get a redirect
link from your new host, you putit in your old host and then
everything will redirect to thenew feed.
It shouldn't disrupt anythingfor your current listeners, but

(45:46):
you may need to go into your newhost.
Some of them will import stufffor you, so they'll go through
your old host and bring allthose episodes over to your new
feed, and sometimes you have todo that manually.
So just be aware you do need tomove your files over, but in
terms of what the viewer or theaudience and listener sees, at
least you know, this doesn'tcount on YouTube, I guess, but

(46:07):
on any other RSS-based platformit's pretty easy to switch.
It's.
It's not super complicated.
Every platform that I've seendoes a good job of explaining
how to do it.
I switched from Anchor toBuzzsprout and that was a pretty
, super easy process and it'stotally fine it did.
I guess if you're an analyticshound it can mess things up,
because you know, once Iswitched to Buzzsprout it was

(46:30):
like number of all-time listens,one.
You know your analytics startover from scratch, and so it's
like, okay, well, how many totallistens did I have on Anchor?
And add that to.
Luckily, I don't particularlycare about those kind of stats
for my show.
Obviously, those analyticsexist for reasons and they are
more important to other people.
So that's, you know, maybe anarea where it could get a little

(46:52):
tricky.
But the good news there is, itmeans you don't have to like
sometimes I see people rackingtheir brains and really
stressing themselves out overwhich host to use and it's like
just go with what you feel isbest at the time.
Like sure, look at a bunch ofthem, look at the features, look
at the pricing, look at theinterface and how them.
Look at the features, look atthe pricing, look at the

(47:13):
interface and you know how easyis it for you to use?
Does it work with your brain ornot?
You know, is there a philosophybehind the company you like?
That's one reason I really loveBuzzsprout is it's like
speaking of people who've beenat the same company for a long
time.
A lot of those people have beenthere for like 15 plus years
and they are so in favor ofindependent podcasting.
That, to me, I really love that, in addition to all the
features and all the cool stuffthat they add versus.

(47:34):
You know, anchor was great,spotify for podcasters is makes
things super accessible andworks incredibly well.
But also Spotify, you know,they're kind of more in favor of
creating, you know, gated wallsfor their podcasts and things,
which is sort of different thanbeing, you know, the independent
, open wild west of podcasting.

(47:55):
So for me it kind of made senseto move somewhere that was more
aligned with what I believe inwhen it comes to podcasting.
But point being, don'toverthink these things, just
find what works, dive in there,get your show up and running and
know that down the line you canmove it and it's not going to
affect your listeners or youraudience in any way, shape or
form for the most part, but whatdoes affect your audience is

(48:17):
the quality of your show, notjust the audio quality but also
the content quality, and I knowthis is going to be ironic, as
there are several things in hereI could have edited out and
maybe should have, but didn't.
One point that I'm adding hereis that editing almost always
does improve a podcast, fullyaware of the irony and the
hypocrisy in that statement, butit does, I believe it or not,

(48:40):
genuinely do love editingpodcasts.
This is an area where there's abunch of different you know
software you can use for that.
I love using Adobe Audition toedit podcasts.
It's for some reason, for meit's like really fun to use, not
only processing the audio, butjust the way that it works is
awesome.
I love that it justautomatically adds in these
perfect little crossfades.
If you cut something out andslide audio together, it really

(49:03):
sounds like you cannot tell thatsomething was cut out.
And it's so easy to do that andit's fun.
It's fun to tighten things up.
I did.
You know, I've edited episodesof this show throughout the
years, sometimes depending on ifI make a huge mistake while
recording or really need todecide that I wasn't happy with
something and wanted to cut itout, or if I'm not recording

(49:24):
into a Rodecaster, I need torecord directly into computer
for some reason, edit thingstogether.
I edited the podcast with Peterand I a lot because we were
separate.
No matter what, there wasalways kind of that strange
delay, and so I would always Iwould literally go through and
edit every time.
I know there's now like AItools that do this, but I'm a
control freak.
I would edit every time one ofus talked and the other talked

(49:47):
and I would.
You know I would switch thatout.
And there are also things too.
I guess here's maybe a lesson ifyou do a remote podcast, since
I do most of mine solo, there'sa thing when you're talking to
someone, you will do things toacknowledge that you're
listening.
So you will usually respond.
You know he and I were alwayson like a video call and so I
would.
I would be nodding and you knowif he's talking.

(50:07):
And sometimes you say stufflike yeah, you know if he's
talking.
And sometimes you say stufflike, yeah, you know, you affirm
things to the other persontalking or I would laugh or
whatever, and that makes sensein a conversation.
But listening back to thepodcast, it was actually like so
annoying.
Sometimes it fit in for me toyou know he'd go on for a long
time and say something and I'dsay, oh, yeah, totally, and that

(50:29):
made sense.
But other times it would justbe like who's this?
There's just another voicechiming in for no reason.
This, like you know, hype manin the background like preach,
you know, go for it.
So I could just cut all thatout and then the listener could
just hear Peter talking withoutme, you know, and that you know.
That makes a difference, and ifthere's any kind of background
noise or anything, you can notonly eliminate that in the audio

(50:53):
, but you can, instead of mejust having my white noise over
Peter talking, I can just getrid of that.
So I love to tighten up thetransitions where to try to make
it sound as much as possiblelike we were in the same room
together, and that was alwaysreally fun, very time consuming,
and something I've learned whenI edit podcasts is sometimes I
go like I just need to cut outthat one part or just change

(51:13):
this thing.
Well, once I start doing that,then I could also change this,
then I could also do that, andsuddenly now I've put you know
1200 cuts into this one episodethat I was trying to just take
out one little part of.
It's very hard for me.
I'm very much an all or nothingeditor when it comes to that.
And that's not even talkingabout producing something like
an NPR style podcast throughadding in lots of music and

(51:36):
sound beds and differentinterviews and things.
Obviously, something like that,a show like that, needs to be
more highly edited than a showlike this, which is much more
conversational, and that's youknow.
And so editing always does helpAlmost always, I should say.
Sometimes, the moreconversational feel works Like
it is a very different vibe tohear the mistakes, to let things

(52:00):
breathe, to have somebody sortof process their thoughts in
real time.
It is a different feel andthat's more appropriate for some
shows and some topics thanothers.
Appropriate for some shows andsome topics than others.
I have designed this showspecifically around that,
because, as much as I likeediting podcasts, if I had to
put that much editing time intoevery episode I wouldn't be able
to do it, and so in order tomake the show sustainable for me

(52:23):
, I have to.
You know.
That's why I love theroadcasters.
I can have a fully editedprocess show as soon as I'm done
and I press, you know, stop therecord button over there.
That is phenomenal.
And so the thing I have in mynotes says editing almost always
improves things, but having asustainable workflow is key and
that's really important.

(52:44):
If you know, if you do not haveeight extra hours a week to
spend editing your podcast,don't put yourself in a position
where you need to spend eighthours a week editing your
podcast.
You know like, do what you can,change the show, the content as
much as you can.
Also, you know you will buildskills over time.
Another thing to note is thatsomething being unedited does

(53:04):
not mean that it was unplannedor that you were unprepared.
Like I have notes in front ofme.
I have thought about thisepisode long before I hit record
.
I didn't hit record and just golike I'm just gonna ramble for
an hour and kind of hope for thebest there, like no, I have
planned this out.
I've thought about it for acouple of days before I actually
sat down to record the episode,even though I'm not loading

(53:26):
this into Audition and editingit and cutting it out.
So into audition and editing itand cutting it out.
So unedited does not equalunplanned and it also depends on
the person you know.
Fortunately the roadcaster doeshave a record pause which I can
use from time to time if I needto.
But also I mean.
I know I had Gil's voicemailsalready ready to go.
I'd already listened to thosebefore the show.
You know like things arealready, you know, planned out

(53:48):
before I hit record, even thoughthe show isn't edited.
But also, your skills willbuild up over time.
I am not someone who ever whooriginally felt I was a good
public speaker or like publicspeaking or any of that, but
then I was a high school teacherfor 11 years, and then I
started a YouTube channel andthen I started podcasting

(54:10):
teacher for 11 years, and then Istarted a YouTube channel and
then I started podcasting, andso all of those things, plus
others sort of like, helped mebuild up a skill set where I
feel like I am now more capableof speaking off the cuff,
clearly, relatively concisely,for a longer period of time than
the average person is.
So it's a skill, and if I cando it, I promise you anyone can
do it.
But it is a skill, and if I cando it, I promise you anyone can

(54:32):
do it, but it is a skill.
It's something you have tolearn, something you have to
practice, something that takestime, and so your show will
evolve over time as well.
And so that brings me to thelast lesson I have here, which
is at least for me.
In my opinion, I think one ofthe most important things, if
not the most important thing toremember is that fun is first.

(54:53):
So no matter what you're doingwith all this, if you're not
having fun, what's the point,even if you're working on a more
serious topic?
So I know my, you know thisshow is more conversational.
It's about, you know,creativity and the creator world
.
That's fun, interesting stuff.
But some shows are gearedtowards, you know, more serious
topics and mental health issuesand substance abuse and
political things.

(55:13):
You know stuff where it's likeit's not just goof around, hang
out.
You know wacky times, it's likethat's kind of heavy.
You can still have funproducing that.
You can still.
You know, maybe fun isn't theright word, but you can enjoy
the process, you can feelsatisfied through it, you can
feel that it's creativelyrewarding and fulfilling and all
those great things.
I think that is hugelyimportant when it comes to

(55:36):
producing your show.
And if that has disappeared andif you're not feeling that way
anymore, if it's feeling like anobligation, if it's feeling
like a sludge, then maybe it'stime to reconsider what's
happening.
And obviously this is a littlebit easier if what you're doing
is something you're in charge ofand it's time to reconsider
what's happening.
And obviously this is a littlebit easier if what you're doing
is something you're in charge ofand it's independent.
But in 2024, something that wasnot happening nearly as often 10

(55:57):
years ago is a lot of companiesand a lot of job positions now
require someone to produce apodcast.
It's a thing Like so manycompanies, businesses,
organizations have their ownshows, have their own podcasts,
and so somebody who maybe youknow have their own podcasts,
and so somebody who maybe youknow you might find yourself
producing a show that's not,let's face it, even me, like the
school district propaganda show, might not be the main thing I

(56:22):
wanted to create.
You know, like that's notnecessarily what I was listening
to when I was putting onpodcasts in my car, but it was
fun to always find ways to havefun with it.
I love the process of theproduction process.
I almost didn't care what wewere talking about.
It was fun to like figure outthe microphones, figure out the
setup, you know, do the cover,artwork, like all that kind of
stuff was was really fun to me,and that was something I

(56:44):
definitely did learn when I wasteaching was every day I went to
work I tried to have at leastone thing to look forward to,
and fortunately it could beusually a couple things.
I'd try to have like a lesson orsomething that was like, oh, I
can't wait to like talk aboutthis, or I can't wait to show
the students this, or you knowwhatever.
But I would also try to havesomething that's sort of like

(57:06):
not related to that, somethingthat's like on my lunch break or
my prep period or after school,before school, not related to
that.
Something that's like on mylunch break or my prep period or
after school, before school,like whatever it might be.
Like even just trying, like Ithink you know, if we connected
this piece of gear to that pieceof gear, then that means we'd
be able to do this kind ofeffect on our daily broadcast.
Or, you know, like I want to, Ireally want to figure out like

(57:26):
how to use, you know, thisfeature on this one camera, like
something that I was excited todo and that, even on days when
it's like, oh, my God, you know,students are being a nightmare,
there's a million terriblemeetings, I'm exhausted At least
it gave me something to lookforward to, and I think if you
find yourself in one of thosesituations where you're
producing a show that you knowyou wouldn't necessarily be

(57:49):
listening to, it's somethingthat you're required to do, not
necessarily something you'reexcited to do you can probably
find things to be excited about,you know, depending on your
interests and whatever.
Maybe it is trying to level upthe production quality every
time, get dialed, dive into EQand processing a little bit more
, maybe figuring out microphones, even figuring out a better

(58:09):
setup.
You know, like you've gotpeople who have to sit side by
side to talk to each other.
You work things around.
Now they can sit across from atable.
Does that change the vibe andthe dynamic?
Like all of those little youknow, there's lots of little fun
stuff that you can find whenyou're producing a show.
That's not necessarily relatedto the topic or the content of
the show the listener will nevereven know but it could make a

(58:31):
world of difference for you andyour ability to enjoy what
you're making.
And that's ultimately, I think,the most important, because not
only is it crucial to have anidea that has legs, but it's
important for you to be able toenjoy this, and that's what
makes it sustainable, so thatyou can continue to do it into
the foreseeable future as longas you want, until you maybe

(58:52):
feel like the idea naturallyruns its course.
I'm sure there's lots more, lotsmore lessons I could pull for
the past 10 years, but thesewere the big ones that kind of
popped out that I don'tnecessarily hear talked about a
lot.
Obviously, we can talk a lotabout gear and the production
process, but I hope this waspretty helpful and interesting.
And, speaking of 10 years, it's10 episodes.
So wrapping up season 12 of thepodcast.

(59:15):
I appreciate everyone who haslistened for all the years,
everyone who has sent inmessages, text, voice, all the
things.
It's absolutely fun.
I can't tell you how much Iappreciate you taking your time
to listen to this show and tohelp me get better at making the
show over all the years.
So I appreciate you.

(59:38):
I hope you have a safe, happy,healthy, fun rest of your day or
your week or your weekend,wherever you are, and I'll see
you next time.

(01:00:02):
Take care.

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