December 18, 2024 • 56 mins
In this episode, Victoria Riskin, daughter of Oscar-winning writer Robert Riskin and Fay Wray, and award-winning writer-producer Steven C. Smith reveal the impact of director Frank Capra and his friend and collaborator writer Robert Riskin on the early success of Columbia Pictures. We also discuss two audio commentaries they provided for inclusion in the recently released FRANK CAPRA AT COLUMBIA COLLECTION, featuring 20 films in HD, plus nine films in 4K, plus tons of extras, all on 27 discs.
Purchase links:
FRANK CAPRA AT COLUMBIA COLLECTION
Fay Wray and Robert Riskin: A Hollywood Memoir
Music by Max Steiner: The Epic Life of Hollywood's Most Influential Composer
Prepare to embark on an enlightening journey through the legacy of Frank Capra at Columbia Pictures. Learn how Capra's immigrant background and early hardships shaped his storytelling genius, contributing to Columbia's rise as a powerhouse in the film industry. From tackling the transition to sound films to creating financially and culturally significant works, Capra’s journey illustrates the power of determination and creativity. Through engaging anecdotes and insights, Steven and Victoria reveal how Capra's collaborations with Robert Riskin gave birth to classics like "It Happened One Night," demonstrating the strength of their partnership despite differing political ideologies during a tumultuous era.
Join our conversation as we celebrate the enduring messages of integrity and community values in films like "American Madness" and "Mr. Deeds Goes to Town." The fascinating history of "American Madness" unfolds, highlighting its timely relevance during the Great Depression and its innovative technical directing. Meanwhile, "Mr. Deeds Goes to Town" captures the triumph of the common man, with Gary Cooper's memorable performance and the film's seamless blend of comedy and drama. Through personal anecdotes and reflections, Steven and Victoria underscore the significance of these films, inviting listeners to appreciate the artistry and dedication behind Hollywood's most beloved classics.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hello and welcome to the Extras, where we take you
behind the scenes of yourfavorite TV shows, movies and
animation and then release ondigital DVD, blu-ray and 4K or
your favorite streaming site.
I'm Tim Millard, your host, andtoday I'm very excited to
welcome back my good friend andaward-winning writer-producer,
stephen C Smith.
To welcome back my good friendand award-winning
(00:27):
writer-producer, stephen C Smith.
Stephen is the author of Musicby Max Steiner, the Epic Life of
Hollywood's Most InfluentialComposer, also A Heart at Fire
Center, the Life and Music ofBernard Herrmann, and he has
written and produced hundreds ofdocumentaries and
behind-the-scenes extras, someof which we got to work on
together when I was at WarnerBrothers.
So it's always a pleasure tohave you, stephen.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
It's great to be back , Tim.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
And also joining us is writer producer Victoria
Riskin, former president of theWriters Guild of America West
and daughter of Academy Awardwinning screenwriter Robert
Riskin and actress Faye Ray.
She's also the author of FayeRay and Robert Riskin, a
Hollywood memoir.
Victoria, so glad to have youon the podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Thank you for inviting me.
I'm happy to be here, Stephenit's always good to see you.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I think we last had you on the podcast.
We talked about His Girl Fridaywe did, and that was also a
Columbia release, so you've beenbusy.
Girl Friday, we did, and thatwas also a.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Columbia release.
So you've been busy.
Yes, I'm thrilled that Sony,which owns Columbia, has been so
good about restoring classicfilms, many of them in 4K or in
Blu-ray, and putting them out inthese deluxe editions with new
featurettes.
I got to do two documentariesfor His Girl Friday, and I
participated with Vicky in twoof the commentaries on the new
(01:46):
Frank Capra at Columbia set, andthey've done some other
documentaries for them recently.
So, yeah, it's a thrill to seethese films not only looking
better than ever, but to givethe movie lover a reason to
revisit these titles, let's sayto add these new additions.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yeah, and I'm just going to throw in my opinion and
maybe you will agree or not,but there's been a number of
100th or centennial celebrationsat the studios.
A lot of them started aroundthe same time.
A year ago or so, it was theWarner Brothers 100th Right, and
then is it this year or lastyear, the MGM.
I think it's also MGM this year, is it not?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Yeah, MGM is this year.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Disney was last year, as I recall.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
All those studios were figuring out how to make it
work at the same time, how totake these disparate smaller
production companies and createthe studio system.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
And I have to say kudos to Columbia, sony, because
I think they're doing aterrific job of packaging for
collectors, the library, some ofthe best and really putting
effort and money into newcontent, new extras, like the
ones we're going to talk abouthere, and I just love what
(02:58):
they're doing.
The packaging is fantastic.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Beautiful I am too.
It's thrilling.
It's thrilling to go back to aproject I did a few years ago to
see Oliver, 1968's Best Picturewinner, finally looking just
absolutely gorgeous, soundinggorgeous in a way that just
hadn't been possible for a longtime.
Obviously, technology has comea long way, but the transfers
Lawrence of Arabia are stunningand while the Frank Capra films,
(03:24):
which are of the 1930s in theset, and the 1920s, obviously
don't have that Lawrence ofArabia scope, they're still
gorgeously shot and it's achance to really appreciate how
beautiful those movies became,particularly as of about 32, 33,
and then continuing to the endof Capra's time at Columbia at
(03:46):
the end of the decade.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
And Victoria, it has to be exciting for you when you
see your father's workrepresented and released like
this for the fans.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Well, I want to start by sending a valentine to the
studio itself, because when Iwas writing my memoir there were
several films that were notavailable to see and I got in
touch with the studio and theyset up a screening room for me
and said what do you want to see?
And they pulled out the oldreels.
It was pretty exciting and Ihad private screenings to see
(04:19):
the films in good shape andbeautiful condition and
appreciate them.
They just pop off the screen.
The blacks and whites and thewhole.
The spirit of the film is somuch stronger.
But they also have a wonderfularchive of photographs.
So I was like a kid in a candystore going into the archives
and they could not have beenmore welcoming and encouraging.
(04:43):
So I think Sony's done a greatjob and I would say that that
comes from probably from the top.
What I mean by that is, I thinkthe top executive appreciated
Tom Rothman I think he's stillthere, right, I've left
Hollywood but really appreciatedthe history of the studio and
of course, capra and my dadplayed an important role in that
(05:04):
turning point, as Stephensuggested, of bringing the
studio into the grown-up world.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Right, I know that studios have been bought, sold,
you know, so there's a lot thatgoes into the centennials.
Sometimes it makes sense from abusiness standpoint to do you
know more or less, or whatever,so that complicates things a
little bit.
But I do like what Columbia isdoing.
The movies, of course, arefantastic, and the restorations
(05:34):
that I've seen have been reallyfantastic.
So before we dive into thisFrank Capra collection at
Columbia, I did want to ask you,victoria, a little bit about
your book.
I have not read the book, but Isaw it.
I'm like I really want to readthis book now.
Can you tell us what kind ofgot you motivated to want to do
it and what was that experiencelike?
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Well, a book is always the happiest when it's
done.
You're always happiest whenyou've come to the end, right,
because it can be such anabsorbing experience.
I did not spend a lot of myearly life focusing on old
Hollywood.
What I was in search for wasand this is what happens when
(06:17):
you reach a certain level ofmaturity I wanted to find my
parents again.
Who were they really?
Who was my father?
What role did he play?
He had died when I was young,and so he was sort of frozen in
time for me, and I alwaysthought of myself as a little
girl looking up at him.
In fact, he was not very tall,so by the time I ended the book,
(06:38):
we were the same height,logically speaking.
But I was in search of both ofthem their beginnings and their
trip to Hollywood, what rolesthey played in Hollywood, but
also who they were as people andthe values that they had and
how they, particularly my father, how his values were infused in
(07:00):
his writing and the films thathe chose to do, and then, of
course, his relationship withCapra and how that worked.
So it's a story of my life, butreally mostly their lives, and
seen through my lens.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
We're going to talk a little bit about how Capra and
your father met, but before wemove on from the book, how did
your mother and father meet?
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Well, it's not exactly.
Well, they met at a Christmasparty hosted on Christmas Eve by
Richard Barthelmas, if thatname is familiar to old movie
fans, and it was for people whowere.
They had to be single to come.
It was sort of like early matchdot com, but in a living room
(07:44):
in Beverly Hills with filledwith lights and music.
And so my mother was there.
She was single, she had divorcedher first husband and she was
feeling kind of cheerful andstanding by the piano and kind
of singing along the songs anddancing a little bit.
And my father was like a littlelaser beam and he saw her and
(08:07):
said I think I have to get toknow her.
So he walked over and chattedand then invited her to go to
the movies.
And they went to see the Grapesof Wrath, which is not exactly
a cheerful movie, right, but herearly years had been years of
not having much money, of reallystruggling, and so she was very
(08:30):
moved by the film andteary-eyed during the difficult
passages and I think his heartmelted.
But years later he saidsomething that he suggested to
her that he had seen her and hadan eye on her for many years
before that.
In fact, he had written a filmthat she starred in, for I think
(08:54):
it was Columbia right.
Stephen Ann Carver's Profession.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Ann Carver's Profession.
I'll have to look that up Ican't remember if that was
Warner's, or because your mothermoved around studios a great
deal.
During the 1930s she did workat Columbia and she worked.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I think I'm sure it was a Columbia picture, but I
can't swear to it.
But it was a story of a womanwho was a very successful lawyer
and how that impacted hermarriage and the difficulty her
marriage had in trying to as shebecomes more and more
successful and eclipses herhusband.
(09:31):
So it was actually a bitavant-garde in its own way and
feminist in its own way and atthe same time a little old
fashioned.
But she loved, she loved thescript and she admired the
writing and so she had her eyeon Riskin for a long time.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Interesting.
Well, that's all the teaseeverybody's going to get here.
You're going to have to buy thebook.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
It's a great book.
By the way, I mean Vicki'sfather, robert Riskin, not only
was a great writer, but he musthave been the most charming man
and delightful of company,because prior to meeting your
mother, he had had romances withCarol Lombard, with Linda
Farrell.
He was quite a ladies man, Ishould say in a serial way he
(10:18):
was.
These were relationships thatlasted, and he maintained really
good friendships with thoseladies too, didn't he?
Speaker 3 (10:24):
He did, he did.
And both of those women, carolLombard and Glenda Farrell, were
pretty terrific women, maybenot so much as reflected in the
parts they played, but as I gotto know them and doing research
for the book, I thought theywere wonderful.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
So and, by the way, you are absolutely right, ann
Carver's profession is aColumbia movie, so maybe we'll
see that on Blu-ray 4K one day.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Well, the gist of our conversation today is about
this wonderful 27-disc FrankCapra at Columbia Collection,
and it has 20 different movies Ibelieve in there, and we're
going to talk about two of theones that you two added audio
commentaries to.
But before we kind of dive intothat, the obvious question here
is Frank Capra at Columbia whypull out such a big collection?
(11:16):
And the answer we all know isbecause of the importance.
But let's dig into that alittle bit.
Stephen, what can you tell usabout the early history of Cap
Red Columbia?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Indeed.
Well, if you don't mind, tim,I'm going to go back just a few
years to a company that had beenformed when Harry Cohn, his
brother and another associateborrowed money from what became
(11:49):
the Bank of America andestablished this very modest
studio.
And it was impossible to getstars, and if you look at the
early photos of the films beingmade, it almost looks like
you're making a home movie.
The sets are so small, thecameras are so small, and yet
Harry Cohn was a man oftremendous fierce ambition and
(12:12):
smart, because, yes, he wasincredibly tough, but by the
early 1930s he had made hiresthat were very strategic to
improve the look and the feel ofhis films.
Something that we talked aboutwith Kimberly previously was the
idea of having the costumes ofColumbia films look better so
they could entice actresses likeCarol Lombard and Barbara
(12:35):
Stanwyck to come over for onepicture and to have better
scripts.
And that's and we'll talk moreabout Vicky's father, robert
Riskin, and how Cohn reallyappreciated what Riskin could
bring, not just to the Caprafilms but also to Columbia.
There was MGM it was enormousand aspire not to the budgets of
(13:10):
their films or the scope oftheir studio, but to produce,
yes, a lot of bread and buttermovies that made money and were
inexpensive, but also to makeenough really prestige films so
that later Cary Grant and IreneDunn and people like that would
come to the studio.
So, going back to the Capra ofall of that, there's no question
that Columbia was on the righttrack in terms of trying to
(13:32):
create the more impressivelooking films that Cone wanted
to do silent film era.
In comedy and I mean slapstickcomedy, you know Max Sennett,
hal Roach, he was a gag man andCapra was a tremendously like
(13:55):
Cohn, ambitious person who knew,somewhat amorphously at the
beginning but with more and moreclarity, what he wanted to do,
and that was to escape achildhood of poverty, of great
struggle.
He was born in an area that waspart of Sicily.
He came over to the US, Ibelieve when he was seven, and
the trip was absolutelymiserable terrible conditions,
typical, you know, immigrantspacked together.
(14:15):
A similarly horrible train tripacross from New York to
California where the familymoved for various reasons.
But and he later said quitepoignantly that he was never a
boy, that he was always a man,meaning that nobody was really
protecting him, and his fatherwas a kind of a slightly
ne'er-do-well fellow.
His mother was driven but hewas really on his own to make it
(14:39):
, like a lot of young childrenat the time.
He sold newspapers and he hadto defend himself on the streets
from all kinds of attacks fromother boys, from all sorts of
things.
So that will toughen a personup and, let's face it, there are
not many people who make it tothe top of the American film
industry without having atoughness and a backbone, or at
(15:00):
least an ability to go through areally terrible experience and
say I'm going to get throughthis because I know what I want
to do.
And Capra had certainly greatinstincts about storytelling
that developed over time.
He observed people, he likedpeople and people liked working
for him when he began havingthese early opportunities to
(15:22):
direct and, like so manydirectors, the opportunities
were more plentiful in the 20sbecause the film business was so
disorganized these littlecompanies would crop up and
disappear and come around andsometimes, you know, I think it
was Alan Dwan, a director, whosupposedly got his break when
the director was drunk anddidn't show up or couldn't work.
I mean, it was a really rough,hard scrabble, rough and tumble
(15:45):
Wild West kind of business andthat's one reason I love this
period so much is because itdoesn't have the rules, the
giant infrastructure that wehave now, the vertical
integration.
It was just a bunch of peopletrying to figure out how this
new medium of the movies couldmake them money and, on the way,
create art, almost accidentallyat first.
But Capra found his way toColumbia and it wasn't as if he
(16:10):
was just suddenly a greatdiscovery and master filmmaker.
Like all filmmakers, he had tobe a journeyman first.
He had to work in differentgenres.
He had to make mistakes.
He wasn't happy with a lot ofhis early films, but he did the
best he could and got better andbetter.
And by the time sound took over,all the studios in Hollywood
(16:31):
agreed by 1929 that they wereonly going to make talkies
moving forward.
Well, there were a couple ofyears where all the studios were
figuring it out, but by, Ithink, 1931, capra was really at
the forefront of directorsmaking good talkies because he
directed a comedy calledPlatinum Blonde.
And it was called PlatinumBlonde because it had this new
(16:52):
young star named Jean Harlow init in what you could argue is
her first really good role ingood film.
And Capra realized that, unlikea lot of films of the time
actors didn't have to speak veryslowly in this stentorian stage
like diction for people tounderstand them.
No, people should talk likewe're talking together now.
So Platinum Blonde had pace, ithad energy and that really put
(17:17):
him on the track to get betterprojects and he began to
collaborate with Vicky's fatheron some scripts and I'll leave
that to Vicky to talk about.
But the turning point forColumbia, without a question, is
1934's.
It Happened One Night, a moviethat is still shown to people, a
movie that audiences still love.
I've hosted screenings of itand people are enchanted by this
(17:40):
film.
It really is.
It's of its time but timelessby this film.
It really is, it's of its timebut timeless.
And the success of Capra,riskin, gable, colbert and
everyone who worked on that filmand Harry Cohn for bringing the
elements together.
That was a turning point for thestudio because not only did it
win Best Picture, which wasunprecedented for Columbia, they
(18:02):
were thought of as a B studio.
It won the Best Picture, whichwas unprecedented for Columbia.
They were thought of as aB-studio.
It won the Best Picture.
It won for the first time allof the top awards at the Oscars,
something that didn't happenagain for another 40-plus years,
with One Flew Over the Cuckoo'sNest.
So this was really a milestone.
And then that was like firingthese talents out of a rocket.
Suddenly, everything they didwas gold.
(18:24):
You get movies like Capra andRiskin collaborating on Mr Deeds
Goes to Town.
You get Lost Horizon.
You get you know you Can't Takeit With you 1938's Best Picture
winner.
You get Capra's last film forthe studio, mr Smith Goes to
Washington, and I'm some out.
So so Capra really put thestudio into an entire new
(18:49):
stratosphere.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Well, vicky, do you recall how your father kind of
fit into that Columbia story,and did he work with Capra first
or with Columbia first?
Speaker 3 (19:04):
No, Well, he came to Hollywood, like a lot of people
did, after the crash the 1929crash and he was.
He had no money, but it turnedout that Warner Brothers had
decided to buy one of the playsthat he'd written.
He was writing for Broadway andthere's a wonderful story in my
(19:25):
book about how the agent whocame offered him some money like
$5,000, which was a huge amountof money to buy his property.
For whatever reason, my daddecided I think this guy really
wants this property, so I'mgoing to hold out.
He had no money in his pocketand he said I think I'd rather.
(19:48):
He said I'd like $50,000.
He just gave him an enormousamount of money.
The long and the short of itand it's a cute story.
I don't want to cheat everybodyout, but you can read it.
In the end he was right.
They were already filming themovie and they had to have the
rights.
And he ended up getting it paid$30,000 and then came to
(20:10):
Hollywood and Harry Cohn offeredhim a contract.
That was a time, as Stephen says, they were hiring a lot of
writers who had been journalistsor playwrights from New York to
come out and work at the studio.
And his first meeting withFrank Capra.
He comes in and Capra's tellingthe story of a movie they're
going to make and he recognizesthat as his own play another
(20:33):
play and he says he's sitting inthe back of the room and Harry
Cohn turns to him and says so,you wrote this thing, what do
you think?
And he said well, it was a flopon Broadway and if you make it
as a movie, it just shows you'restupider than I am.
That made Capra very angry.
That was their first meeting.
(20:54):
They went on and made the film.
It was not a success, butactually I like this film.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
It's a good movie.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
It's a wonderful movie.
It's called Miracle withBarbara Stanwyck and she's
marvelous in it, and the reasonit didn't do well is because it
questioned the commercializationof religion and that was not
popular to the viewing public.
My dad understood that.
They then worked on.
Stephen mentioned PlatinumBlonde.
(21:23):
That's also one of my favoritefilms.
But there you see Capra as abrilliant director.
Timing and lighting is quitewonderful and you hear the
brilliant dialogue of Riskin andyou know if these two are going
to get together it's going togo well.
To the dialogue there was style, there was wit and it's still
(21:55):
one of my favorites of theRiskin Capra films.
So that was the springboard.
I think they then looked ateach other.
They each went off and didother things, but I think they
had their eye on each other tofind ways to come together again
.
And they did with Broadway Billand they did with.
Of course it Happened One Nightwhich just was off the charts.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
We know that they had a complicated relationship,
kind of toward the end.
But what do you think allowedthem to work so well together
and be so successful?
Speaker 3 (22:23):
I think they were wonderful complements to each
other.
They were both scrappy kids.
My dad had grown up on theLower East Side and then in
Brooklyn.
He knew what it was to fightwith the Irish and the Italians
and I think Capra had that samekind of wonderful, playful rough
edge.
They also loved each other'ssense of humor.
(22:44):
They bantered a lot.
There was great playfulness andI'm not sure they ever even had
a bad relationship.
That might have been overplayedin some places, because when
Capra finally left Columbia myfather left first and went to
(23:05):
work for Sam Goldman as a topexecutive and he was miserable
and Capper was miserable underthe yoke of Harry Cohn because
they'd had so much conflict.
And finally he leaves and thefirst thing they do is they form
a company together and theymeet John Doe.
(23:25):
So that's what I know of thefacts of their relationship.
There were tensions later, butthey were more understandable.
It was a different time.
It was the post-war era, so Icould be a psychoanalyst of what
(23:46):
was going on there.
But it was not easy to havegone off to war, have the whole
kind of industry shut down andthen come back and rebuild a
life.
And it was a new style offilmmaking and new sensibilities
in the post-war era thataudiences wanted.
Anyway, that's a whole otherside of it.
But what I think worked is therewas no one who was more
(24:09):
brilliant with dialogue andcharacter than Robert Riskin and
there was no one with a bettersense of timing and bringing out
the best in actors.
And, having think, at that timeCapra wanted to be a grand
director.
You know, epic, huge and itbecame a financial threat to the
(24:44):
whole studio, that film andmuch was complicated about how
to end the film and in many waysa quite wonderful film, it was
touching on the idealism and soon.
But I think that's where Capraand Harry Cohn were in.
They were not only in battle inbattle, and they were in legal
(25:07):
battles with each other, Becausewho was going to have the final
say?
And that's always.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Am I right, Stephen, about my history here I always
turn very good on your historyand I would say that ultimately
Lost Horizon, which was releasedmany times, made its money back
.
And during the war, Franklin DRoosevelt, when asked where I
can't remember if it was certainofficers or where something was
taking place, he made areference to it all being in
Shangri-La, which is theparadise setting in Lost Horizon
(25:37):
.
And I think even people whohave never seen or read the book
of Lost Horizon have heard thephrase Shangri-La and know that
it represents a kind ofwonderful place to go to escape
things.
So Lost Horizon was the mostchallenging movie they made
together because it wasn't acomedy, it was a very ambitious
kind of fantasy film with socialthemes, and the remarkable
(25:58):
thing is Harry Cohn, despite hisconcerns, backed them to the
hilt, gave Capra everything hewanted to the end of production
and it ultimately was a success.
One thing I really love aboutthis period from, let's say, it
Happened One Night in 1934.
I know that Capra and Riskinwere already working together
(26:18):
and we'll talk about at leastone of those films, but
especially starting with itHappened One Night there's this
tremendous excitement of okay,what can we do now?
You know what's possible, whatcan we do even better, and there
are some really charmingarticles of that time.
One of them I'll paraphrasewhere where a writer, in
profiling the two men, says it'sreally unusual because you talk
(26:40):
to Capra and he just wants totalk about Riskin, and you talk
to Riskin and he wants to talkabout Capra.
So they really had kind of amagic together at this time.
And I now live in the PalmSprings area, so it was very fun
for me to be reminded that whenthey were starting some of
their projects, Capra and Riskinwould come to this area, to La
Quinta, I believe, Right, Vicki,and they would stay at a hotel
(27:03):
and they would get away twohours outside of Hollywood to
something of a it must have feltlike kind of a Shangri-La in
1935-ish or so and work herewhere they could be away from
just anything other than theirown imaginations.
And so it's a very, very fertileperiod and it will be fun, I
think, for viewers to look atthe films which again, not you
(27:24):
know, only some are written byRisk and they're all
Capra-directed films.
But they'll see how Capradevelops from this person
figuring out, you know, aseverybody had to the grammar of
film, what works, what doesn't,and then, you know, really
swinging for the fences on someinteresting films like the
Bitter Tea of General Yen, whichdared to suggest an interracial
romance possibility betweenBarbara Stanwyck and a character
(27:47):
who is Chinese.
That was really taboo for thetime and that came just before
it happened one night.
But then to do these moviesthat absolutely hit the sweet
spot of commercial and criticalsuccess, you know also, and that
have remained some of the bestloved movies of the 30s.
So it will be fun, I think, forpeople to watch these things in
context.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Let's dive right into American Madness.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
In 1932, with that kind of thought in mind.
You know, maybe you can give usa little bit of background on
that story.
But the two films we're goingto talk about and of course it's
a Wonderful Life you watch themand you just I don't know.
You feel like they understandpeople in America and like where
we came from and our immigrantstories, and I mean there's just
so much there that was a partof their partnership, I'm
(28:33):
assuming.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Yeah, vicki, may I say for just a quick moment I
think it's a great example ofhow two people who had, let's
say, different views of politicsin some respects and we won't
get too political on this, butthey were a little different in
that Riskin was a real New Deal,franklin D Roosevelt liberal,
and Capra was more of aconservative person, which a
(28:56):
number of people in Hollywoodwere, and he was a self-made man
, I mean, like a lot of people,who didn't get any help from
anyone or, at least you know,really had to push to get help
from people.
He didn't see things the sameway.
Riskin did exactly.
But what's great is how greatthat they didn't have the same
point of view, because when youget people who are simpatico
creatively, but they have adifferent perspective on the
(29:18):
world, on how things should berun, some really interesting had
helped him along the way and hedidn't want to be giving away
stuff.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
He thought people should dig in and take care of
themselves, whereas my dad felt25% of the American population
was out of work and we should behelping and people along.
(29:45):
And it's amazing that you see,in the films that they did
there's a blending.
I mean you could almost bringany point of view to some of
those films and yet they did,I'm sure, debate things
politically, but it didn'tinterfere with their love for
(30:08):
each other and that's theremarkable thing.
That's kind of lost.
And there were all thesebattles going on inside of
Hollywood as well and Frank wasa little bit more sympathetic to
the studio point of view and mydad was first kind of in the
middle and then he sided withthe labor movement in Hollywood
(30:31):
and mostly for my dad it wasespecially for his fellow
writers and the younger writers.
They deserve to be respectedand cared about.
Whereas for Frank he felt hereare these guys who had worked
hard to build these studios andlet's not take them on and
criticize them In the end.
Actually there were times whenthey blended together and worked
(30:52):
together, when there were somelabor issues and when they were
forming the unions andultimately Kampers sided with
the unions.
I just think it's sointeresting to look at their
relationship and see howbeautifully they got along.
I'll tell you a quick storyabout how they got along,
(31:13):
because my first memory of FrankCapra and my dad is in the
living room at our home in BelAir and the two of them are
doing circus tricks and throwingballs in the air and doing
cartwheels.
They were very playful together.
They brought that out and Ithink my dad particularly
brought that side of Frank'spersonality out and they
(31:35):
traveled together, even nothaving anything to do with
making movies.
But they went to Russia, theywent to England.
Probably.
It was hard in some ways forFrank during the war when my
father went in his own directionand didn't work with him, and
when he married my mother andsuddenly there was another, you
know, important center of mydad's life.
(31:55):
I think you have a verypowerful story of friendship
with these two men.
I've thought of actuallywriting a film about two men in
Hollywood in the 1930s, and ithad some sad moments too the
loss of Frank's's son and thenmy father's illness and how
Frank responded to that.
(32:15):
There's a lot of powerful storyin that friendship.
So anyway, enough said.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Yes, and underneath it all there is this tremendous
time of tumult in America, allover the world.
But this is the peak of thedepression, is when their
collaboration really started.
And that sort of, you know, issomething very, very much felt
in one of the two films forwhich Vicki and I provided new
audio commentary on the new set.
(32:43):
And I have to admit I am justfascinated by the period in the
early 30s when Hollywood hadalready gone this tremendous
upheaval of change, putting increating sound films, which
meant rebuilding their studios,in effect, you know, creating
sound departments, buildingsound stages that would work for
sound, as opposed to the easierway, in a sense, of silent
(33:05):
films, where the directors couldverbally, you know, talk
through a shot and that sort ofthing.
So the studios have alreadyspent a great deal of money.
And then the stock marketcrashes and for a little while
nobody's really sure that it'sgoing to cause a problem in
Hollywood in 1930, but it does.
And by 1932, studios arestarting to go into receivership
(33:25):
.
People forget that ParamountPictures went into receivership,
rko went into receivership.
People forget that ParamountPictures went into receivership,
rko went into receivership in1933.
These were studios hanging onby their fingernails trying to
figure out what movies couldkeep them in business, what
filmmakers could make the moviesto keep them in business.
And Columbia was a little bitahead of even a Paramount in
(33:49):
that it didn't own theaters likea lot of the big big studios
did, so they didn't have toworry about keeping their
theater chains going and havingquite as much product to put
into them.
And that brings us to one of thetwo films that Vicki and I
provided commentary on, thewonderful, real, I think
overlooked gem in this Capra setthat people are going to really
(34:09):
enjoy, a 1932 film calledAmerican Madness.
And just a brief word ofcontext in 1932, it was thought
that as much as $100 million wasbeing hoarded by people not
being put into banks becausethere were so many banks that
failed, and that's well over abillion dollars today.
(34:30):
So there was tremendous fear onthe part of the American public
about the banking industry.
And, vicki, I know you can tellus much, much more about this
film and how it came about.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Yeah, well, I would add to the perfect context,
because the studio, well, thewhole country, was in a
depression but the studios werein crisis and going bankrupt
Paramount, whether RKO, and wecan talk about that later but
FDR was encouraging people afterhe got elected to put your
money back in the banks, they'llbe all right.
I mean because people werehoarding and putting whatever
money they had under theirmattresses.
(35:06):
At the same time, columbiaPictures did not have a whole
string of theaters, so it was inbetter financial shape in some
ways.
But the two people, theGiannini brothers, who started
the Bank of Italy that becamethe Bank of America, liked
(35:27):
movies.
They first were loaning moneyto farmers, to Italian farmers
up in the northern part ofCalifornia, and they got
interested in the movie business.
And I don't remember whichGiannini, but one of them was on
the board of directors ofColumbia Pictures and Cohen was
very grateful to him and said tomy dad, go write a movie about
(35:51):
a bank and banking and theGiannini brothers.
And he went and did anextensive interview.
I think it was Doc Giannini,but I can't, I'm just.
Yeah, I think it was Doc, yeah,it was Doc Giannini and came
back and crafted the AmericanMadness screenplay.
And crafted the AmericanMadness screenplay and, as
Stephen knows, the first was ittwo directors.
(36:13):
The first director was it wasterrible, the direction was
terrible, they had to stopeverything and Capra was brought
in to rescue the picture anddid beautifully.
But it's a story about thesense of panic that was
streaming across the country,people taking money out of the
(36:33):
banks, and so it follows alongthat emotional sense.
And then, in very sort of, Iwould say Riskin-esque style,
you had a banker at the centerof the story who believed in
loaning money to people he knew,who had character, and the bank
board of directors the localboard of directors wanted to
(36:54):
sell the bank to a much biggerbank and that was no way to be
loaning money, and so thatbecomes a piece of the story.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Yes.
So it's an unusual story and,unlike many of the early 30s
films in which bankers weresometimes depicted as the bad
guys and we know that gangsterswere starting to be glorified by
the likes of James Cagney andEdward G Robinson in the Warner
Brothers films, Harry Cohn saidmake a movie to risk and write a
movie where the banker is thehero and he's the good guy of
(37:24):
the story.
He's played by the wonderfulWalter Houston, father of John
Houston.
John was not really doing muchin the movie business yet, but
Walter Houston was a well-knownstage star and had begun to make
more and more films and he'sjust wonderful casting as this
man of extreme integrity whounderstands that, who can read
(37:45):
people and and gauge a goodinvestment.
And what's unusual about it isthis is no spoiler, because it's
really what the movie is aboutis that it's about a run on a
bank.
It's something that we'll seein a later famous Frank Capra
movie, but it's the title.
American Madness suggests whatis going to happen, which is
(38:06):
that, due to plot machinationswe won't reveal, people wrongly
think that this bank is not safeand it's the kind of urgent,
real-time action taken which andthat may not sound like an
exciting movie but it's reallyalmost a thriller, a suspense
movie, and what Capra did was hedidn't change a word of risk
(38:28):
and screenplay.
He didn't recast one actor,apparently, but he had them
rebuild the sets a little bit sothat Walter Houston, playing
the chief banker, his office,overlooks this big bank.
So there's things going on, sothere's a lot of energy in the
shots and he put rhythm into itand he paced it up and it builds
beautifully so that when thepanic and the run on the bank
starts in the last half hour ofthe movie, it's so gripping and
(38:53):
it's just a terrific movie.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Yeah, I was not familiar with this film, and
from the get go it just pullsyou right in.
It actually feels very modern.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Yes it is.
It does feel modern.
I'll tell you a little sidestory.
I don't know if your listenerswould be interested, but I still
love this film and I now livein Martha's Vineyard and I
invited the president of mylocal bank to come and see the
film, because we have acommunity bank, which means that
it's owned by the peopledepositors, it's not owned by
(39:25):
another company.
And I said this is what you'reall about and I want to remind
you of how important you are ina community, that sense of the
bank important you are in acommunity, that sense of the
bank knowing the people andcaring about the community and
supporting good business and thedepositors versus the money
(39:45):
hungry guys who just want toturn a profit.
This feels very modern indeed.
Well.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
I was talking specifically about the style of
filmmaking as well, in the sensethat the very first shot we
start.
Well, it's not the very firstshot, but very soon we're.
We're looking at the vault andwe're showing the mechanisms of
how it's pretty difficult tobreak into a vault.
So just in terms of I think,like close-ups and and the way
(40:12):
it was cut and setting up of thewhat would the plot point of
breaking into the bank, how'sthat going to happen?
And and just setting up thatsuspense, as you mentioned, I
thought was fantastic.
And then the melodrama, ofcourse, around that is of its
period, but I just thought someof the other elements of the
technical directing was verymuch.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
And there's some overhead shots and there's a lot
of movement.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Tracking shots as people talk and you know, in
those days quite often actorswould just stand and give you
the exposition.
Capra has several trackingshots where they're talking and
moving and I love that there's ashot early on as Pat O'Brien's
talking and they're moving pastthe teller windows and you just
really get a sense of theenvironment.
It and you just really get asense of the environment.
It feels very real, even thoughit's a set, and you might think
(41:19):
that bankers would be opposedto a film that shows that things
can go wrong in their banks andfor a time, you know, it's
looking a little scary as towhether this bank is going to
survive.
But in fact and this issomething very smart that I
think Kerry Cohn was primarilyresponsible in doing, and this
is something very smart that Ithink Kerry Cohn was primarily
responsible in doing he pointedout to the censors that they
(41:39):
made this movie with theGiannini brothers supporting it
and that this movie was intendedto show people that banks were
safe.
And this is still this is thelast year of Herbert Hoover's
presidency.
He's going to be voted out inNovember, around the time that
this movie is coming out, andthe censors in fact really got
behind this movie and embracedit and the publicity kind of
(42:00):
talked about the fact that thiswas a movie that was, you know,
had a social message for it.
So he completely, the studiocompletely turned the censors
around from being against thefilm to pointing to it as an
example of how film can help thecountry at that time, I just
want to contrast this film, orthese films, with what was being
made at MGM at the time, whichis not to say I don't love MGM
(42:22):
films so.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
but by contrast, mgm was making glossy films with
stars.
They were relying on stars, notso much on these more
humanistic storytelling that wasso important to connect with
the average American during thatperiod and that was the
strength of Columbia and Capraand Riskin together.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
I think for those like myself who haven't seen the
film before the way it's shotand the storytelling, which I
thought was quite progressive aswell, and then, of course, the
whole banking thing it's reallyenjoyable.
I think also that you mentionedthat there are some precursors
here, or some elements thatCapra comes back to with it's a
(43:05):
Wonderful Life, Stephen.
Maybe you could explain alittle bit more about that.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Well I can.
It's not, frankly, an area ofexpertise for me.
That is, post-columbia Capra,where he was forming his own
production company and the greathope was that the prestigious
filmmakers who united to createthat organization would be able
to make movies of their choosing.
Alas, it did not work out thatway.
(43:30):
But of course it's.
A Wonderful Life found a greatafterlife.
Afterlife, and one can't helpbut see a recurrence of a theme
that runs through those 30sCapra films, particularly the
ones written by Riskin and alsoMr Smith Goes to Washington,
this notion of the individualagainst the system.
And we all know that GeorgeBailey in Savings and Loan is in
(43:52):
a situation not dissimilar fromsome aspects of American
madness, but they're, you knowthey're different.
But I think they speak toCapra's recognition that
American people wanted tobelieve that the people who were
in charge of their institutions, whether they were small and
local or large in the government, say, were really taking care
of them and concerned about them.
(44:13):
And that's sort of a theme thateven carries over in the other
movie for which we did acommentary, mr Deeds Goes to
Town, which is generally a muchmore lighthearted film.
Its third act has more drama,but that's a romantic comedy.
But again it has that idea thatyou have an individual who
listens to what they used to say, we used to call the common man
(44:37):
.
You know, the person withoutpower, we can say perhaps today
and takes on large institutionsdifferent ones in Mr Deeds, but
that's a constant Capra theme.
It's a Riskin theme, for sure.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
Well, why don't we talk about Mr Deeds Goes to Town
1936?
I'm sure this is pretty much abeloved film that many people
know, but maybe you could giveus a little rundown for those
who maybe aren't as familiarwith the film.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
Absolutely.
This is a charming 1936romantic comedy written by
Vicki's dad, directed by Capraand starring Gary Cooper and the
wonderful Jean Arthur Capra andstarring Gary Cooper and the
wonderful Gene Arthur.
And it's about a very simpleman, played by Cooper Longfellow
Deeds, who finds himself thesurprise inheritor of a fortune.
(45:26):
And, of course, where there's awill there are relatives, as
the saying goes.
There aren't relatives here,but there are certainly people
who want to take his money,steal his money, do bad things
with his money, and it's aclassic story of a hero who
seems very simple, to the pointof well, he is naive in some
ways, particularly when it comesto romance, but he was actually
(45:48):
quite smart when it comes toreading people.
We see that throughout the filmfilm.
And you know, it's, I think,safe to say in a Capra film that
the simple man quote unquote,that the quote unquote common
man is going to be quite a matchfor the forces, the authority
figures that try to exploit him,that are corrupt.
Now, that may sound like acliche, it may sound like
(46:10):
something you've seen a thousandtimes, but the beauty of this
movie is how quickly you getinvolved with the character of
Longfellow Deeds, so beautifullyplayed by Cooper.
Then you're thrust into kind ofthe big city atmosphere that is
personified by Jean Arthur'swised up newspaper woman who
assumes another identity to tryto get the inside story on Deeds
(46:31):
.
And it's the specificity of thewriting, it's the wit of the
dialogue, it's the connectionbetween the actors, it's a
fabulous supporting cast.
You know, a decade later, Ithink Preston Sturgis would
(46:53):
really borrow the notion thatCap a million movies and scene
after scene, people who even atthat time would have had much
larger roles were willing tocome in and do small parts in
this because it was recognizedquite early on as a project of
equality.
And, vicki, I'd love to hearyour thoughts about it films.
Speaker 3 (47:17):
To be honest, I think Gary Cooper is so wonderful and
beautiful performance andrepresents the integrity of the
common man, as you would say,and that whole theme of he comes
to New York and he seems like anaive who's going to be taken
advantage of by the powerfulleaders, lawyers and power
brokers and he realizesultimately that money doesn't
(47:40):
make you happy and that you havea responsibility.
And it's heartbreaking becausehe falls in love with Gene
Arthur.
I shouldn't tell the wholestory.
That's not even there, right?
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Okay, it's a good book I think you gave him, you
gave yourself as a veryaccomplished screenwriter, so I
think you gave us the perfectlook right there.
Speaker 3 (47:57):
Yeah, but there's so much I love about it and I know
it must have had a big influenceon my dad because he named his
dachshund Mr Deeds, and Mr Deedscontinued to be important in
our life Even when we werelittle kids.
After the war, we had Mr Deedsas our favorite pet.
But, I think these charactersthat my dad created lived inside
(48:19):
of his head.
They were real people in someways, in some realm inside of
his mind, and representedsomething that was very
important to him, which wasremembering that people are
basically decent and helpingeach other out.
These were important themes forhim and you don't know if the
romance is going to cometogether or not, so I'm not
(48:41):
going to, I'm not going to tellthe ending of the film, but I do
want to have a little a chanceto point out that in the final
scene there is a banter aboutpeople's oddities and funny
things that they do, likedoodling, and there's this whole
(49:01):
little moment when that is usedas an example the kind of funny
things people do who are normal.
And my dad invented the worddoodle and I just think I have
to go on record telling you thatand even though there's some
sort of Merriam-Websterdictionary says they think it
(49:24):
maybe came from some otherancient word, but he invented
that word and later in his lifehe wrote a story at the time of
a film he did called Magic Town,in which he reminded it was a
newspaper story the public thathe had invented that word and he
was looking for some new wordsto invent.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
And for those of you out there who think well, what
about Yankee Doodle, the songthat came before that?
That word might have existed,but it was her father who gave
it the meaning that we allassociate with it that is
drawing.
So yes, To doodle.
Speaker 3 (50:00):
He gave it a verb.
How's that?
Speaker 2 (50:02):
Yes, it becomes now something and that dates back to
Mr Deeds Goes to Town.
And one of the other things Ireally love about this movie is
that it accomplishes somethingthat people try and it often
doesn't work.
It's essentially a romanticcomedy for about 70% of the way
and then there is a scene ofintense drama.
I mean a gun is pulled and it'slife and death suddenly and the
(50:25):
movie changes tone and that isthe hinge that takes us in a
really arresting manner into adifferent kind of film.
For a while it's a drama andthen eventually it's brought
around to a very emotionallysatisfying ending with great
warmth and heart to it.
But I have to say that it's atestament to Capra and Riskin
(50:46):
that they would dare to create asequence that is so suddenly
different and dramatic and haveit work.
And apparently when the moviewas first shown to critics and
journalists covering it, at theend of that scene the audience
applauded of Hollywood insiders.
They were just so impressedwith how that scene had worked
and they related to what wasbeing said in it.
(51:08):
And again, you'll have to watchthe movie to really know what
we're talking about.
But it's a great example forscreenwriters and directors to
watch and see how you can havethese different tones and
because life is full of thesedifferent tones comedy, romance,
tragedy, drama, whatever and MrDeeds has so much of that and I
think that's another reasonthat when we get to the end of
(51:30):
this movie, we really feel likewe've been on such a fabulous
journey with people that we careabout and you know, it moves us
, it moves and it moves us.
Speaker 3 (51:40):
I want to just make one more comment.
For anyone who's going to bewatching this film is look at
the secondary characters, lookat the cast, and you see them in
Capra films over and over again.
Some of this, these characteractors, these small roles, but
it's a wonderful ensemble thatCapra put together.
Speaker 2 (52:03):
To be sure.
Speaker 1 (52:05):
So these are just two fabulous films that are part of
this amazing Frank Capra setcelebrating 100 years of
Columbia Pictures.
20 films on here, and it's sogreat, Victoria, that you could
come on and talk about yourfather's collaboration on so
many of these films.
One thing I've learned today isjust how tightly they are
(52:26):
connected with some of thesefantastic films.
Stephen, your thoughts on thisset and this release and your
involvement with it.
Speaker 2 (52:34):
I'm so happy that soon I can have in one place so
many movies that I love.
Lady for a Day we haven'ttalked about it a beautiful
movie based on a Damon Runyonstory about a rundown woman who
it's a very sort of magicalfable from the writer the origin
writer of Guys and Dolls.
There are several BarbaraStanwyck movies and she's always
(52:56):
fascinating to watch,particularly so early in her
film career when she's already aterrific actress and she really
connected on a personal levelwith Capra and I think you can
see that in the movies you getthe later Capra.
His last film at Columbia, mrSmith Goes to Washington, a
movie that is, yes, it has ahappy ending we all wish could
(53:19):
happen in real life.
But so much of it is still trueand relevant.
And yeah, lost Horizon we'vetalked about.
You can't take it with you.
1938's Best Picture winner, ahuge hit on Broadway, adapted
for the screen by Vicky's father, robert Riskin.
Lots of extras, a newdocumentary.
I don't want to sound like atotal shill, but as a movie buff
(53:41):
I really can't wait to have allthis material.
Speaker 1 (53:45):
Well, I mean, that's kind of what we do on this
podcast, stephen.
We talk about movies that arecoming out on 4K or Blu-ray and
if you aren't familiar with them, we try to help people who are.
And if you love the movie, it'sgreat to revisit together.
And I guess the really uniqueand wonderful thing is that we
(54:07):
got to hear from you, victoria,and the personal stories that
your memories of your father andyour mother and their
relationship to these films.
So thank you so much for comingon and sharing those.
Speaker 3 (54:20):
Oh, it's been my great pleasure and I hope you
get a chance to read the book,because it'll be a deep dive
into a personal life ofHollywood of the 1930s.
Speaker 2 (54:32):
Yeah, vicki's book on her parents is extraordinary.
You get such a sense ofHollywood from the 20s to the
50s really, and beyond with yourmom.
It's a beautiful story.
Speaker 1 (54:44):
Well, this was a lot of fun.
Stephen and Victoria, Thank youso much for coming on the
podcast.
Speaker 2 (54:48):
Tim, it's been a pleasure being here and I hope
I'll see you again soon.
Take care, both of you.
Speaker 3 (54:53):
This was great soon.
Speaker 1 (55:00):
Take care both of you .
This is great For those of youinterested in purchasing Frank
Kampra at Columbia Collection,there is a purchase link in the
podcast show notes and on ourwebsite at wwwtheextrastv.
If this is the first episode ofthe Extras you've listened to
and you enjoyed it, please thinkabout following the show at
your favorite podcast providerand if you're on social media,
you can find our links on theshow notes here.
And for our long-term listeners, don't forget to subscribe and
(55:22):
leave us a review at iTunes,spotify or your favorite podcast
provider.
Until next time you've beenlistening to Tim Millard, stay
slightly obsessed you.
Hello and welcome to the Extras, where we take you
behind the scenes of yourfavorite TV shows, movies and
animation and then release ondigital DVD, blu-ray and 4K or
your favorite streaming site.
I'm Tim Millard, your host, andtoday I'm very excited to
welcome back my good friend andaward-winning writer-producer,
stephen C Smith.
To welcome back my good friendand award-winning
(00:27):
writer-producer, stephen C Smith.
Stephen is the author of Musicby Max Steiner, the Epic Life of
Hollywood's Most InfluentialComposer, also A Heart at Fire
Center, the Life and Music ofBernard Herrmann, and he has
written and produced hundreds ofdocumentaries and
behind-the-scenes extras, someof which we got to work on
together when I was at WarnerBrothers.
So it's always a pleasure tohave you, stephen.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
It's great to be back , Tim.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
And also joining us is writer producer Victoria
Riskin, former president of theWriters Guild of America West
and daughter of Academy Awardwinning screenwriter Robert
Riskin and actress Faye Ray.
She's also the author of FayeRay and Robert Riskin, a
Hollywood memoir.
Victoria, so glad to have youon the podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Thank you for inviting me.
I'm happy to be here, Stephenit's always good to see you.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I think we last had you on the podcast.
We talked about His Girl Fridaywe did, and that was also a
Columbia release, so you've beenbusy.
Girl Friday, we did, and thatwas also a.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Columbia release.
So you've been busy.
Yes, I'm thrilled that Sony,which owns Columbia, has been so
good about restoring classicfilms, many of them in 4K or in
Blu-ray, and putting them out inthese deluxe editions with new
featurettes.
I got to do two documentariesfor His Girl Friday, and I
participated with Vicky in twoof the commentaries on the new
(01:46):
Frank Capra at Columbia set, andthey've done some other
documentaries for them recently.
So, yeah, it's a thrill to seethese films not only looking
better than ever, but to givethe movie lover a reason to
revisit these titles, let's sayto add these new additions.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yeah, and I'm just going to throw in my opinion and
maybe you will agree or not,but there's been a number of
100th or centennial celebrationsat the studios.
A lot of them started aroundthe same time.
A year ago or so, it was theWarner Brothers 100th Right, and
then is it this year or lastyear, the MGM.
I think it's also MGM this year, is it not?
Speaker 2 (02:23):
Yeah, MGM is this year.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Disney was last year, as I recall.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
All those studios were figuring out how to make it
work at the same time, how totake these disparate smaller
production companies and createthe studio system.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
And I have to say kudos to Columbia, sony, because
I think they're doing aterrific job of packaging for
collectors, the library, some ofthe best and really putting
effort and money into newcontent, new extras, like the
ones we're going to talk abouthere, and I just love what
(02:58):
they're doing.
The packaging is fantastic.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
Beautiful I am too.
It's thrilling.
It's thrilling to go back to aproject I did a few years ago to
see Oliver, 1968's Best Picturewinner, finally looking just
absolutely gorgeous, soundinggorgeous in a way that just
hadn't been possible for a longtime.
Obviously, technology has comea long way, but the transfers
Lawrence of Arabia are stunningand while the Frank Capra films,
(03:24):
which are of the 1930s in theset, and the 1920s, obviously
don't have that Lawrence ofArabia scope, they're still
gorgeously shot and it's achance to really appreciate how
beautiful those movies became,particularly as of about 32, 33,
and then continuing to the endof Capra's time at Columbia at
(03:46):
the end of the decade.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
And Victoria, it has to be exciting for you when you
see your father's workrepresented and released like
this for the fans.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
Well, I want to start by sending a valentine to the
studio itself, because when Iwas writing my memoir there were
several films that were notavailable to see and I got in
touch with the studio and theyset up a screening room for me
and said what do you want to see?
And they pulled out the oldreels.
It was pretty exciting and Ihad private screenings to see
(04:19):
the films in good shape andbeautiful condition and
appreciate them.
They just pop off the screen.
The blacks and whites and thewhole.
The spirit of the film is somuch stronger.
But they also have a wonderfularchive of photographs.
So I was like a kid in a candystore going into the archives
and they could not have beenmore welcoming and encouraging.
(04:43):
So I think Sony's done a greatjob and I would say that that
comes from probably from the top.
What I mean by that is, I thinkthe top executive appreciated
Tom Rothman I think he's stillthere, right, I've left
Hollywood but really appreciatedthe history of the studio and
of course, capra and my dadplayed an important role in that
(05:04):
turning point, as Stephensuggested, of bringing the
studio into the grown-up world.
Speaker 1 (05:12):
Right, I know that studios have been bought, sold,
you know, so there's a lot thatgoes into the centennials.
Sometimes it makes sense from abusiness standpoint to do you
know more or less, or whatever,so that complicates things a
little bit.
But I do like what Columbia isdoing.
The movies, of course, arefantastic, and the restorations
(05:34):
that I've seen have been reallyfantastic.
So before we dive into thisFrank Capra collection at
Columbia, I did want to ask you,victoria, a little bit about
your book.
I have not read the book, but Isaw it.
I'm like I really want to readthis book now.
Can you tell us what kind ofgot you motivated to want to do
it and what was that experiencelike?
Speaker 3 (05:56):
Well, a book is always the happiest when it's
done.
You're always happiest whenyou've come to the end, right,
because it can be such anabsorbing experience.
I did not spend a lot of myearly life focusing on old
Hollywood.
What I was in search for wasand this is what happens when
(06:17):
you reach a certain level ofmaturity I wanted to find my
parents again.
Who were they really?
Who was my father?
What role did he play?
He had died when I was young,and so he was sort of frozen in
time for me, and I alwaysthought of myself as a little
girl looking up at him.
In fact, he was not very tall,so by the time I ended the book,
(06:38):
we were the same height,logically speaking.
But I was in search of both ofthem their beginnings and their
trip to Hollywood, what rolesthey played in Hollywood, but
also who they were as people andthe values that they had and
how they, particularly my father, how his values were infused in
(07:00):
his writing and the films thathe chose to do, and then, of
course, his relationship withCapra and how that worked.
So it's a story of my life, butreally mostly their lives, and
seen through my lens.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
We're going to talk a little bit about how Capra and
your father met, but before wemove on from the book, how did
your mother and father meet?
Speaker 3 (07:23):
Well, it's not exactly.
Well, they met at a Christmasparty hosted on Christmas Eve by
Richard Barthelmas, if thatname is familiar to old movie
fans, and it was for people whowere.
They had to be single to come.
It was sort of like early matchdot com, but in a living room
(07:44):
in Beverly Hills with filledwith lights and music.
And so my mother was there.
She was single, she had divorcedher first husband and she was
feeling kind of cheerful andstanding by the piano and kind
of singing along the songs anddancing a little bit.
And my father was like a littlelaser beam and he saw her and
(08:07):
said I think I have to get toknow her.
So he walked over and chattedand then invited her to go to
the movies.
And they went to see the Grapesof Wrath, which is not exactly
a cheerful movie, right, but herearly years had been years of
not having much money, of reallystruggling, and so she was very
(08:30):
moved by the film andteary-eyed during the difficult
passages and I think his heartmelted.
But years later he saidsomething that he suggested to
her that he had seen her and hadan eye on her for many years
before that.
In fact, he had written a filmthat she starred in, for I think
(08:54):
it was Columbia right.
Stephen Ann Carver's Profession.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
Ann Carver's Profession.
I'll have to look that up Ican't remember if that was
Warner's, or because your mothermoved around studios a great
deal.
During the 1930s she did workat Columbia and she worked.
Speaker 3 (09:08):
I think I'm sure it was a Columbia picture, but I
can't swear to it.
But it was a story of a womanwho was a very successful lawyer
and how that impacted hermarriage and the difficulty her
marriage had in trying to as shebecomes more and more
successful and eclipses herhusband.
(09:31):
So it was actually a bitavant-garde in its own way and
feminist in its own way and atthe same time a little old
fashioned.
But she loved, she loved thescript and she admired the
writing and so she had her eyeon Riskin for a long time.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
Interesting.
Well, that's all the teaseeverybody's going to get here.
You're going to have to buy thebook.
Speaker 2 (09:56):
It's a great book.
By the way, I mean Vicki'sfather, robert Riskin, not only
was a great writer, but he musthave been the most charming man
and delightful of company,because prior to meeting your
mother, he had had romances withCarol Lombard, with Linda
Farrell.
He was quite a ladies man, Ishould say in a serial way he
(10:18):
was.
These were relationships thatlasted, and he maintained really
good friendships with thoseladies too, didn't he?
Speaker 3 (10:24):
He did, he did.
And both of those women, carolLombard and Glenda Farrell, were
pretty terrific women, maybenot so much as reflected in the
parts they played, but as I gotto know them and doing research
for the book, I thought theywere wonderful.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
So and, by the way, you are absolutely right, ann
Carver's profession is aColumbia movie, so maybe we'll
see that on Blu-ray 4K one day.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Well, the gist of our conversation today is about
this wonderful 27-disc FrankCapra at Columbia Collection,
and it has 20 different movies Ibelieve in there, and we're
going to talk about two of theones that you two added audio
commentaries to.
But before we kind of dive intothat, the obvious question here
is Frank Capra at Columbia whypull out such a big collection?
(11:16):
And the answer we all know isbecause of the importance.
But let's dig into that alittle bit.
Stephen, what can you tell usabout the early history of Cap
Red Columbia?
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Indeed.
Well, if you don't mind, tim,I'm going to go back just a few
years to a company that had beenformed when Harry Cohn, his
brother and another associateborrowed money from what became
(11:49):
the Bank of America andestablished this very modest
studio.
And it was impossible to getstars, and if you look at the
early photos of the films beingmade, it almost looks like
you're making a home movie.
The sets are so small, thecameras are so small, and yet
Harry Cohn was a man oftremendous fierce ambition and
(12:12):
smart, because, yes, he wasincredibly tough, but by the
early 1930s he had made hiresthat were very strategic to
improve the look and the feel ofhis films.
Something that we talked aboutwith Kimberly previously was the
idea of having the costumes ofColumbia films look better so
they could entice actresses likeCarol Lombard and Barbara
(12:35):
Stanwyck to come over for onepicture and to have better
scripts.
And that's and we'll talk moreabout Vicky's father, robert
Riskin, and how Cohn reallyappreciated what Riskin could
bring, not just to the Caprafilms but also to Columbia.
There was MGM it was enormousand aspire not to the budgets of
(13:10):
their films or the scope oftheir studio, but to produce,
yes, a lot of bread and buttermovies that made money and were
inexpensive, but also to makeenough really prestige films so
that later Cary Grant and IreneDunn and people like that would
come to the studio.
So, going back to the Capra ofall of that, there's no question
that Columbia was on the righttrack in terms of trying to
(13:32):
create the more impressivelooking films that Cone wanted
to do silent film era.
In comedy and I mean slapstickcomedy, you know Max Sennett,
hal Roach, he was a gag man andCapra was a tremendously like
(13:55):
Cohn, ambitious person who knew,somewhat amorphously at the
beginning but with more and moreclarity, what he wanted to do,
and that was to escape achildhood of poverty, of great
struggle.
He was born in an area that waspart of Sicily.
He came over to the US, Ibelieve when he was seven, and
the trip was absolutelymiserable terrible conditions,
typical, you know, immigrantspacked together.
(14:15):
A similarly horrible train tripacross from New York to
California where the familymoved for various reasons.
But and he later said quitepoignantly that he was never a
boy, that he was always a man,meaning that nobody was really
protecting him, and his fatherwas a kind of a slightly
ne'er-do-well fellow.
His mother was driven but hewas really on his own to make it
(14:39):
, like a lot of young childrenat the time.
He sold newspapers and he hadto defend himself on the streets
from all kinds of attacks fromother boys, from all sorts of
things.
So that will toughen a personup and, let's face it, there are
not many people who make it tothe top of the American film
industry without having atoughness and a backbone, or at
(15:00):
least an ability to go through areally terrible experience and
say I'm going to get throughthis because I know what I want
to do.
And Capra had certainly greatinstincts about storytelling
that developed over time.
He observed people, he likedpeople and people liked working
for him when he began havingthese early opportunities to
(15:22):
direct and, like so manydirectors, the opportunities
were more plentiful in the 20sbecause the film business was so
disorganized these littlecompanies would crop up and
disappear and come around andsometimes, you know, I think it
was Alan Dwan, a director, whosupposedly got his break when
the director was drunk anddidn't show up or couldn't work.
I mean, it was a really rough,hard scrabble, rough and tumble
(15:45):
Wild West kind of business andthat's one reason I love this
period so much is because itdoesn't have the rules, the
giant infrastructure that wehave now, the vertical
integration.
It was just a bunch of peopletrying to figure out how this
new medium of the movies couldmake them money and, on the way,
create art, almost accidentallyat first.
But Capra found his way toColumbia and it wasn't as if he
(16:10):
was just suddenly a greatdiscovery and master filmmaker.
Like all filmmakers, he had tobe a journeyman first.
He had to work in differentgenres.
He had to make mistakes.
He wasn't happy with a lot ofhis early films, but he did the
best he could and got better andbetter.
And by the time sound took over,all the studios in Hollywood
(16:31):
agreed by 1929 that they wereonly going to make talkies
moving forward.
Well, there were a couple ofyears where all the studios were
figuring it out, but by, Ithink, 1931, capra was really at
the forefront of directorsmaking good talkies because he
directed a comedy calledPlatinum Blonde.
And it was called PlatinumBlonde because it had this new
(16:52):
young star named Jean Harlow init in what you could argue is
her first really good role ingood film.
And Capra realized that, unlikea lot of films of the time
actors didn't have to speak veryslowly in this stentorian stage
like diction for people tounderstand them.
No, people should talk likewe're talking together now.
So Platinum Blonde had pace, ithad energy and that really put
(17:17):
him on the track to get betterprojects and he began to
collaborate with Vicky's fatheron some scripts and I'll leave
that to Vicky to talk about.
But the turning point forColumbia, without a question, is
1934's.
It Happened One Night, a moviethat is still shown to people, a
movie that audiences still love.
I've hosted screenings of itand people are enchanted by this
(17:40):
film.
It really is.
It's of its time but timelessby this film.
It really is, it's of its timebut timeless.
And the success of Capra,riskin, gable, colbert and
everyone who worked on that filmand Harry Cohn for bringing the
elements together.
That was a turning point for thestudio because not only did it
win Best Picture, which wasunprecedented for Columbia, they
(18:02):
were thought of as a B studio.
It won the Best Picture, whichwas unprecedented for Columbia.
They were thought of as aB-studio.
It won the Best Picture.
It won for the first time allof the top awards at the Oscars,
something that didn't happenagain for another 40-plus years,
with One Flew Over the Cuckoo'sNest.
So this was really a milestone.
And then that was like firingthese talents out of a rocket.
Suddenly, everything they didwas gold.
(18:24):
You get movies like Capra andRiskin collaborating on Mr Deeds
Goes to Town.
You get Lost Horizon.
You get you know you Can't Takeit With you 1938's Best Picture
winner.
You get Capra's last film forthe studio, mr Smith Goes to
Washington, and I'm some out.
So so Capra really put thestudio into an entire new
(18:49):
stratosphere.
Speaker 1 (18:51):
Well, vicky, do you recall how your father kind of
fit into that Columbia story,and did he work with Capra first
or with Columbia first?
Speaker 3 (19:04):
No, Well, he came to Hollywood, like a lot of people
did, after the crash the 1929crash and he was.
He had no money, but it turnedout that Warner Brothers had
decided to buy one of the playsthat he'd written.
He was writing for Broadway andthere's a wonderful story in my
(19:25):
book about how the agent whocame offered him some money like
$5,000, which was a huge amountof money to buy his property.
For whatever reason, my daddecided I think this guy really
wants this property, so I'mgoing to hold out.
He had no money in his pocketand he said I think I'd rather.
(19:48):
He said I'd like $50,000.
He just gave him an enormousamount of money.
The long and the short of itand it's a cute story.
I don't want to cheat everybodyout, but you can read it.
In the end he was right.
They were already filming themovie and they had to have the
rights.
And he ended up getting it paid$30,000 and then came to
(20:10):
Hollywood and Harry Cohn offeredhim a contract.
That was a time, as Stephen says, they were hiring a lot of
writers who had been journalistsor playwrights from New York to
come out and work at the studio.
And his first meeting withFrank Capra.
He comes in and Capra's tellingthe story of a movie they're
going to make and he recognizesthat as his own play another
(20:33):
play and he says he's sitting inthe back of the room and Harry
Cohn turns to him and says so,you wrote this thing, what do
you think?
And he said well, it was a flopon Broadway and if you make it
as a movie, it just shows you'restupider than I am.
That made Capra very angry.
That was their first meeting.
(20:54):
They went on and made the film.
It was not a success, butactually I like this film.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
It's a good movie.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
It's a wonderful movie.
It's called Miracle withBarbara Stanwyck and she's
marvelous in it, and the reasonit didn't do well is because it
questioned the commercializationof religion and that was not
popular to the viewing public.
My dad understood that.
They then worked on.
Stephen mentioned PlatinumBlonde.
(21:23):
That's also one of my favoritefilms.
But there you see Capra as abrilliant director.
Timing and lighting is quitewonderful and you hear the
brilliant dialogue of Riskin andyou know if these two are going
to get together it's going togo well.
To the dialogue there was style, there was wit and it's still
(21:55):
one of my favorites of theRiskin Capra films.
So that was the springboard.
I think they then looked ateach other.
They each went off and didother things, but I think they
had their eye on each other tofind ways to come together again
.
And they did with Broadway Billand they did with.
Of course it Happened One Nightwhich just was off the charts.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
We know that they had a complicated relationship,
kind of toward the end.
But what do you think allowedthem to work so well together
and be so successful?
Speaker 3 (22:23):
I think they were wonderful complements to each
other.
They were both scrappy kids.
My dad had grown up on theLower East Side and then in
Brooklyn.
He knew what it was to fightwith the Irish and the Italians
and I think Capra had that samekind of wonderful, playful rough
edge.
They also loved each other'ssense of humor.
(22:44):
They bantered a lot.
There was great playfulness andI'm not sure they ever even had
a bad relationship.
That might have been overplayedin some places, because when
Capra finally left Columbia myfather left first and went to
(23:05):
work for Sam Goldman as a topexecutive and he was miserable
and Capper was miserable underthe yoke of Harry Cohn because
they'd had so much conflict.
And finally he leaves and thefirst thing they do is they form
a company together and theymeet John Doe.
(23:25):
So that's what I know of thefacts of their relationship.
There were tensions later, butthey were more understandable.
It was a different time.
It was the post-war era, so Icould be a psychoanalyst of what
(23:46):
was going on there.
But it was not easy to havegone off to war, have the whole
kind of industry shut down andthen come back and rebuild a
life.
And it was a new style offilmmaking and new sensibilities
in the post-war era thataudiences wanted.
Anyway, that's a whole otherside of it.
But what I think worked is therewas no one who was more
(24:09):
brilliant with dialogue andcharacter than Robert Riskin and
there was no one with a bettersense of timing and bringing out
the best in actors.
And, having think, at that timeCapra wanted to be a grand
director.
You know, epic, huge and itbecame a financial threat to the
(24:44):
whole studio, that film andmuch was complicated about how
to end the film and in many waysa quite wonderful film, it was
touching on the idealism and soon.
But I think that's where Capraand Harry Cohn were in.
They were not only in battle inbattle, and they were in legal
(25:07):
battles with each other, Becausewho was going to have the final
say?
And that's always.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
Am I right, Stephen, about my history here I always
turn very good on your historyand I would say that ultimately
Lost Horizon, which was releasedmany times, made its money back
.
And during the war, Franklin DRoosevelt, when asked where I
can't remember if it was certainofficers or where something was
taking place, he made areference to it all being in
Shangri-La, which is theparadise setting in Lost Horizon
(25:37):
.
And I think even people whohave never seen or read the book
of Lost Horizon have heard thephrase Shangri-La and know that
it represents a kind ofwonderful place to go to escape
things.
So Lost Horizon was the mostchallenging movie they made
together because it wasn't acomedy, it was a very ambitious
kind of fantasy film with socialthemes, and the remarkable
(25:58):
thing is Harry Cohn, despite hisconcerns, backed them to the
hilt, gave Capra everything hewanted to the end of production
and it ultimately was a success.
One thing I really love aboutthis period from, let's say, it
Happened One Night in 1934.
I know that Capra and Riskinwere already working together
(26:18):
and we'll talk about at leastone of those films, but
especially starting with itHappened One Night there's this
tremendous excitement of okay,what can we do now?
You know what's possible, whatcan we do even better, and there
are some really charmingarticles of that time.
One of them I'll paraphrasewhere where a writer, in
profiling the two men, says it'sreally unusual because you talk
(26:40):
to Capra and he just wants totalk about Riskin, and you talk
to Riskin and he wants to talkabout Capra.
So they really had kind of amagic together at this time.
And I now live in the PalmSprings area, so it was very fun
for me to be reminded that whenthey were starting some of
their projects, Capra and Riskinwould come to this area, to La
Quinta, I believe, Right, Vicki,and they would stay at a hotel
(27:03):
and they would get away twohours outside of Hollywood to
something of a it must have feltlike kind of a Shangri-La in
1935-ish or so and work herewhere they could be away from
just anything other than theirown imaginations.
And so it's a very, very fertileperiod and it will be fun, I
think, for viewers to look atthe films which again, not you
(27:24):
know, only some are written byRisk and they're all
Capra-directed films.
But they'll see how Capradevelops from this person
figuring out, you know, aseverybody had to the grammar of
film, what works, what doesn't,and then, you know, really
swinging for the fences on someinteresting films like the
Bitter Tea of General Yen, whichdared to suggest an interracial
romance possibility betweenBarbara Stanwyck and a character
(27:47):
who is Chinese.
That was really taboo for thetime and that came just before
it happened one night.
But then to do these moviesthat absolutely hit the sweet
spot of commercial and criticalsuccess, you know also, and that
have remained some of the bestloved movies of the 30s.
So it will be fun, I think, forpeople to watch these things in
context.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Let's dive right into American Madness.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yes, yes.
Speaker 1 (28:11):
In 1932, with that kind of thought in mind.
You know, maybe you can give usa little bit of background on
that story.
But the two films we're goingto talk about and of course it's
a Wonderful Life you watch themand you just I don't know.
You feel like they understandpeople in America and like where
we came from and our immigrantstories, and I mean there's just
so much there that was a partof their partnership, I'm
(28:33):
assuming.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Yeah, vicki, may I say for just a quick moment I
think it's a great example ofhow two people who had, let's
say, different views of politicsin some respects and we won't
get too political on this, butthey were a little different in
that Riskin was a real New Deal,franklin D Roosevelt liberal,
and Capra was more of aconservative person, which a
(28:56):
number of people in Hollywoodwere, and he was a self-made man
, I mean, like a lot of people,who didn't get any help from
anyone or, at least you know,really had to push to get help
from people.
He didn't see things the sameway.
Riskin did exactly.
But what's great is how greatthat they didn't have the same
point of view, because when youget people who are simpatico
creatively, but they have adifferent perspective on the
(29:18):
world, on how things should berun, some really interesting had
helped him along the way and hedidn't want to be giving away
stuff.
Speaker 3 (29:24):
He thought people should dig in and take care of
themselves, whereas my dad felt25% of the American population
was out of work and we should behelping and people along.
(29:45):
And it's amazing that you see,in the films that they did
there's a blending.
I mean you could almost bringany point of view to some of
those films and yet they did,I'm sure, debate things
politically, but it didn'tinterfere with their love for
(30:08):
each other and that's theremarkable thing.
That's kind of lost.
And there were all thesebattles going on inside of
Hollywood as well and Frank wasa little bit more sympathetic to
the studio point of view and mydad was first kind of in the
middle and then he sided withthe labor movement in Hollywood
(30:31):
and mostly for my dad it wasespecially for his fellow
writers and the younger writers.
They deserve to be respectedand cared about.
Whereas for Frank he felt hereare these guys who had worked
hard to build these studios andlet's not take them on and
criticize them In the end.
Actually there were times whenthey blended together and worked
(30:52):
together, when there were somelabor issues and when they were
forming the unions andultimately Kampers sided with
the unions.
I just think it's sointeresting to look at their
relationship and see howbeautifully they got along.
I'll tell you a quick storyabout how they got along,
(31:13):
because my first memory of FrankCapra and my dad is in the
living room at our home in BelAir and the two of them are
doing circus tricks and throwingballs in the air and doing
cartwheels.
They were very playful together.
They brought that out and Ithink my dad particularly
brought that side of Frank'spersonality out and they
(31:35):
traveled together, even nothaving anything to do with
making movies.
But they went to Russia, theywent to England.
Probably.
It was hard in some ways forFrank during the war when my
father went in his own directionand didn't work with him, and
when he married my mother andsuddenly there was another, you
know, important center of mydad's life.
(31:55):
I think you have a verypowerful story of friendship
with these two men.
I've thought of actuallywriting a film about two men in
Hollywood in the 1930s, and ithad some sad moments too the
loss of Frank's's son and thenmy father's illness and how
Frank responded to that.
(32:15):
There's a lot of powerful storyin that friendship.
So anyway, enough said.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Yes, and underneath it all there is this tremendous
time of tumult in America, allover the world.
But this is the peak of thedepression, is when their
collaboration really started.
And that sort of, you know, issomething very, very much felt
in one of the two films forwhich Vicki and I provided new
audio commentary on the new set.
(32:43):
And I have to admit I am justfascinated by the period in the
early 30s when Hollywood hadalready gone this tremendous
upheaval of change, putting increating sound films, which
meant rebuilding their studios,in effect, you know, creating
sound departments, buildingsound stages that would work for
sound, as opposed to the easierway, in a sense, of silent
(33:05):
films, where the directors couldverbally, you know, talk
through a shot and that sort ofthing.
So the studios have alreadyspent a great deal of money.
And then the stock marketcrashes and for a little while
nobody's really sure that it'sgoing to cause a problem in
Hollywood in 1930, but it does.
And by 1932, studios arestarting to go into receivership
(33:25):
.
People forget that ParamountPictures went into receivership,
rko went into receivership.
People forget that ParamountPictures went into receivership,
rko went into receivership in1933.
These were studios hanging onby their fingernails trying to
figure out what movies couldkeep them in business, what
filmmakers could make the moviesto keep them in business.
And Columbia was a little bitahead of even a Paramount in
(33:49):
that it didn't own theaters likea lot of the big big studios
did, so they didn't have toworry about keeping their
theater chains going and havingquite as much product to put
into them.
And that brings us to one of thetwo films that Vicki and I
provided commentary on, thewonderful, real, I think
overlooked gem in this Capra setthat people are going to really
(34:09):
enjoy, a 1932 film calledAmerican Madness.
And just a brief word ofcontext in 1932, it was thought
that as much as $100 million wasbeing hoarded by people not
being put into banks becausethere were so many banks that
failed, and that's well over abillion dollars today.
(34:30):
So there was tremendous fear onthe part of the American public
about the banking industry.
And, vicki, I know you can tellus much, much more about this
film and how it came about.
Speaker 3 (34:45):
Yeah, well, I would add to the perfect context,
because the studio, well, thewhole country, was in a
depression but the studios werein crisis and going bankrupt
Paramount, whether RKO, and wecan talk about that later but
FDR was encouraging people afterhe got elected to put your
money back in the banks, they'llbe all right.
I mean because people werehoarding and putting whatever
money they had under theirmattresses.
(35:06):
At the same time, columbiaPictures did not have a whole
string of theaters, so it was inbetter financial shape in some
ways.
But the two people, theGiannini brothers, who started
the Bank of Italy that becamethe Bank of America, liked
(35:27):
movies.
They first were loaning moneyto farmers, to Italian farmers
up in the northern part ofCalifornia, and they got
interested in the movie business.
And I don't remember whichGiannini, but one of them was on
the board of directors ofColumbia Pictures and Cohen was
very grateful to him and said tomy dad, go write a movie about
(35:51):
a bank and banking and theGiannini brothers.
And he went and did anextensive interview.
I think it was Doc Giannini,but I can't, I'm just.
Yeah, I think it was Doc, yeah,it was Doc Giannini and came
back and crafted the AmericanMadness screenplay.
And crafted the AmericanMadness screenplay and, as
Stephen knows, the first was ittwo directors.
(36:13):
The first director was it wasterrible, the direction was
terrible, they had to stopeverything and Capra was brought
in to rescue the picture anddid beautifully.
But it's a story about thesense of panic that was
streaming across the country,people taking money out of the
(36:33):
banks, and so it follows alongthat emotional sense.
And then, in very sort of, Iwould say Riskin-esque style,
you had a banker at the centerof the story who believed in
loaning money to people he knew,who had character, and the bank
board of directors the localboard of directors wanted to
(36:54):
sell the bank to a much biggerbank and that was no way to be
loaning money, and so thatbecomes a piece of the story.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Yes.
So it's an unusual story and,unlike many of the early 30s
films in which bankers weresometimes depicted as the bad
guys and we know that gangsterswere starting to be glorified by
the likes of James Cagney andEdward G Robinson in the Warner
Brothers films, Harry Cohn saidmake a movie to risk and write a
movie where the banker is thehero and he's the good guy of
(37:24):
the story.
He's played by the wonderfulWalter Houston, father of John
Houston.
John was not really doing muchin the movie business yet, but
Walter Houston was a well-knownstage star and had begun to make
more and more films and he'sjust wonderful casting as this
man of extreme integrity whounderstands that, who can read
(37:45):
people and and gauge a goodinvestment.
And what's unusual about it isthis is no spoiler, because it's
really what the movie is aboutis that it's about a run on a
bank.
It's something that we'll seein a later famous Frank Capra
movie, but it's the title.
American Madness suggests whatis going to happen, which is
(38:06):
that, due to plot machinationswe won't reveal, people wrongly
think that this bank is not safeand it's the kind of urgent,
real-time action taken which andthat may not sound like an
exciting movie but it's reallyalmost a thriller, a suspense
movie, and what Capra did was hedidn't change a word of risk
(38:28):
and screenplay.
He didn't recast one actor,apparently, but he had them
rebuild the sets a little bit sothat Walter Houston, playing
the chief banker, his office,overlooks this big bank.
So there's things going on, sothere's a lot of energy in the
shots and he put rhythm into itand he paced it up and it builds
beautifully so that when thepanic and the run on the bank
starts in the last half hour ofthe movie, it's so gripping and
(38:53):
it's just a terrific movie.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
Yeah, I was not familiar with this film, and
from the get go it just pullsyou right in.
It actually feels very modern.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
Yes it is.
It does feel modern.
I'll tell you a little sidestory.
I don't know if your listenerswould be interested, but I still
love this film and I now livein Martha's Vineyard and I
invited the president of mylocal bank to come and see the
film, because we have acommunity bank, which means that
it's owned by the peopledepositors, it's not owned by
(39:25):
another company.
And I said this is what you'reall about and I want to remind
you of how important you are ina community, that sense of the
bank important you are in acommunity, that sense of the
bank knowing the people andcaring about the community and
supporting good business and thedepositors versus the money
(39:45):
hungry guys who just want toturn a profit.
This feels very modern indeed.
Well.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
I was talking specifically about the style of
filmmaking as well, in the sensethat the very first shot we
start.
Well, it's not the very firstshot, but very soon we're.
We're looking at the vault andwe're showing the mechanisms of
how it's pretty difficult tobreak into a vault.
So just in terms of I think,like close-ups and and the way
(40:12):
it was cut and setting up of thewhat would the plot point of
breaking into the bank, how'sthat going to happen?
And and just setting up thatsuspense, as you mentioned, I
thought was fantastic.
And then the melodrama, ofcourse, around that is of its
period, but I just thought someof the other elements of the
technical directing was verymuch.
Speaker 3 (40:33):
And there's some overhead shots and there's a lot
of movement.
Speaker 2 (40:56):
Tracking shots as people talk and you know, in
those days quite often actorswould just stand and give you
the exposition.
Capra has several trackingshots where they're talking and
moving and I love that there's ashot early on as Pat O'Brien's
talking and they're moving pastthe teller windows and you just
really get a sense of theenvironment.
It and you just really get asense of the environment.
It feels very real, even thoughit's a set, and you might think
(41:19):
that bankers would be opposedto a film that shows that things
can go wrong in their banks andfor a time, you know, it's
looking a little scary as towhether this bank is going to
survive.
But in fact and this issomething very smart that I
think Kerry Cohn was primarilyresponsible in doing, and this
is something very smart that Ithink Kerry Cohn was primarily
responsible in doing he pointedout to the censors that they
(41:39):
made this movie with theGiannini brothers supporting it
and that this movie was intendedto show people that banks were
safe.
And this is still this is thelast year of Herbert Hoover's
presidency.
He's going to be voted out inNovember, around the time that
this movie is coming out, andthe censors in fact really got
behind this movie and embracedit and the publicity kind of
(42:00):
talked about the fact that thiswas a movie that was, you know,
had a social message for it.
So he completely, the studiocompletely turned the censors
around from being against thefilm to pointing to it as an
example of how film can help thecountry at that time, I just
want to contrast this film, orthese films, with what was being
made at MGM at the time, whichis not to say I don't love MGM
(42:22):
films so.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
but by contrast, mgm was making glossy films with
stars.
They were relying on stars, notso much on these more
humanistic storytelling that wasso important to connect with
the average American during thatperiod and that was the
strength of Columbia and Capraand Riskin together.
Speaker 1 (42:44):
I think for those like myself who haven't seen the
film before the way it's shotand the storytelling, which I
thought was quite progressive aswell, and then, of course, the
whole banking thing it's reallyenjoyable.
I think also that you mentionedthat there are some precursors
here, or some elements thatCapra comes back to with it's a
(43:05):
Wonderful Life, Stephen.
Maybe you could explain alittle bit more about that.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
Well I can.
It's not, frankly, an area ofexpertise for me.
That is, post-columbia Capra,where he was forming his own
production company and the greathope was that the prestigious
filmmakers who united to createthat organization would be able
to make movies of their choosing.
Alas, it did not work out thatway.
(43:30):
But of course it's.
A Wonderful Life found a greatafterlife.
Afterlife, and one can't helpbut see a recurrence of a theme
that runs through those 30sCapra films, particularly the
ones written by Riskin and alsoMr Smith Goes to Washington,
this notion of the individualagainst the system.
And we all know that GeorgeBailey in Savings and Loan is in
(43:52):
a situation not dissimilar fromsome aspects of American
madness, but they're, you knowthey're different.
But I think they speak toCapra's recognition that
American people wanted tobelieve that the people who were
in charge of their institutions, whether they were small and
local or large in the government, say, were really taking care
of them and concerned about them.
(44:13):
And that's sort of a theme thateven carries over in the other
movie for which we did acommentary, mr Deeds Goes to
Town, which is generally a muchmore lighthearted film.
Its third act has more drama,but that's a romantic comedy.
But again it has that idea thatyou have an individual who
listens to what they used to say, we used to call the common man
(44:37):
.
You know, the person withoutpower, we can say perhaps today
and takes on large institutionsdifferent ones in Mr Deeds, but
that's a constant Capra theme.
It's a Riskin theme, for sure.
Speaker 1 (44:51):
Well, why don't we talk about Mr Deeds Goes to Town
1936?
I'm sure this is pretty much abeloved film that many people
know, but maybe you could giveus a little rundown for those
who maybe aren't as familiarwith the film.
Speaker 2 (45:05):
Absolutely.
This is a charming 1936romantic comedy written by
Vicki's dad, directed by Capraand starring Gary Cooper and the
wonderful Jean Arthur Capra andstarring Gary Cooper and the
wonderful Gene Arthur.
And it's about a very simpleman, played by Cooper Longfellow
Deeds, who finds himself thesurprise inheritor of a fortune.
(45:26):
And, of course, where there's awill there are relatives, as
the saying goes.
There aren't relatives here,but there are certainly people
who want to take his money,steal his money, do bad things
with his money, and it's aclassic story of a hero who
seems very simple, to the pointof well, he is naive in some
ways, particularly when it comesto romance, but he was actually
(45:48):
quite smart when it comes toreading people.
We see that throughout the filmfilm.
And you know, it's, I think,safe to say in a Capra film that
the simple man quote unquote,that the quote unquote common
man is going to be quite a matchfor the forces, the authority
figures that try to exploit him,that are corrupt.
Now, that may sound like acliche, it may sound like
(46:10):
something you've seen a thousandtimes, but the beauty of this
movie is how quickly you getinvolved with the character of
Longfellow Deeds, so beautifullyplayed by Cooper.
Then you're thrust into kind ofthe big city atmosphere that is
personified by Jean Arthur'swised up newspaper woman who
assumes another identity to tryto get the inside story on Deeds
(46:31):
.
And it's the specificity of thewriting, it's the wit of the
dialogue, it's the connectionbetween the actors, it's a
fabulous supporting cast.
You know, a decade later, Ithink Preston Sturgis would
(46:53):
really borrow the notion thatCap a million movies and scene
after scene, people who even atthat time would have had much
larger roles were willing tocome in and do small parts in
this because it was recognizedquite early on as a project of
equality.
And, vicki, I'd love to hearyour thoughts about it films.
Speaker 3 (47:17):
To be honest, I think Gary Cooper is so wonderful and
beautiful performance andrepresents the integrity of the
common man, as you would say,and that whole theme of he comes
to New York and he seems like anaive who's going to be taken
advantage of by the powerfulleaders, lawyers and power
brokers and he realizesultimately that money doesn't
(47:40):
make you happy and that you havea responsibility.
And it's heartbreaking becausehe falls in love with Gene
Arthur.
I shouldn't tell the wholestory.
That's not even there, right?
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Okay, it's a good book I think you gave him, you
gave yourself as a veryaccomplished screenwriter, so I
think you gave us the perfectlook right there.
Speaker 3 (47:57):
Yeah, but there's so much I love about it and I know
it must have had a big influenceon my dad because he named his
dachshund Mr Deeds, and Mr Deedscontinued to be important in
our life Even when we werelittle kids.
After the war, we had Mr Deedsas our favorite pet.
But, I think these charactersthat my dad created lived inside
(48:19):
of his head.
They were real people in someways, in some realm inside of
his mind, and representedsomething that was very
important to him, which wasremembering that people are
basically decent and helpingeach other out.
These were important themes forhim and you don't know if the
romance is going to cometogether or not, so I'm not
(48:41):
going to, I'm not going to tellthe ending of the film, but I do
want to have a little a chanceto point out that in the final
scene there is a banter aboutpeople's oddities and funny
things that they do, likedoodling, and there's this whole
(49:01):
little moment when that is usedas an example the kind of funny
things people do who are normal.
And my dad invented the worddoodle and I just think I have
to go on record telling you thatand even though there's some
sort of Merriam-Websterdictionary says they think it
(49:24):
maybe came from some otherancient word, but he invented
that word and later in his lifehe wrote a story at the time of
a film he did called Magic Town,in which he reminded it was a
newspaper story the public thathe had invented that word and he
was looking for some new wordsto invent.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
And for those of you out there who think well, what
about Yankee Doodle, the songthat came before that?
That word might have existed,but it was her father who gave
it the meaning that we allassociate with it that is
drawing.
So yes, To doodle.
Speaker 3 (50:00):
He gave it a verb.
How's that?
Speaker 2 (50:02):
Yes, it becomes now something and that dates back to
Mr Deeds Goes to Town.
And one of the other things Ireally love about this movie is
that it accomplishes somethingthat people try and it often
doesn't work.
It's essentially a romanticcomedy for about 70% of the way
and then there is a scene ofintense drama.
I mean a gun is pulled and it'slife and death suddenly and the
(50:25):
movie changes tone and that isthe hinge that takes us in a
really arresting manner into adifferent kind of film.
For a while it's a drama andthen eventually it's brought
around to a very emotionallysatisfying ending with great
warmth and heart to it.
But I have to say that it's atestament to Capra and Riskin
(50:46):
that they would dare to create asequence that is so suddenly
different and dramatic and haveit work.
And apparently when the moviewas first shown to critics and
journalists covering it, at theend of that scene the audience
applauded of Hollywood insiders.
They were just so impressedwith how that scene had worked
and they related to what wasbeing said in it.
(51:08):
And again, you'll have to watchthe movie to really know what
we're talking about.
But it's a great example forscreenwriters and directors to
watch and see how you can havethese different tones and
because life is full of thesedifferent tones comedy, romance,
tragedy, drama, whatever and MrDeeds has so much of that and I
think that's another reasonthat when we get to the end of
(51:30):
this movie, we really feel likewe've been on such a fabulous
journey with people that we careabout and you know, it moves us
, it moves and it moves us.
Speaker 3 (51:40):
I want to just make one more comment.
For anyone who's going to bewatching this film is look at
the secondary characters, lookat the cast, and you see them in
Capra films over and over again.
Some of this, these characteractors, these small roles, but
it's a wonderful ensemble thatCapra put together.
Speaker 2 (52:03):
To be sure.
Speaker 1 (52:05):
So these are just two fabulous films that are part of
this amazing Frank Capra setcelebrating 100 years of
Columbia Pictures.
20 films on here, and it's sogreat, Victoria, that you could
come on and talk about yourfather's collaboration on so
many of these films.
One thing I've learned today isjust how tightly they are
(52:26):
connected with some of thesefantastic films.
Stephen, your thoughts on thisset and this release and your
involvement with it.
Speaker 2 (52:34):
I'm so happy that soon I can have in one place so
many movies that I love.
Lady for a Day we haven'ttalked about it a beautiful
movie based on a Damon Runyonstory about a rundown woman who
it's a very sort of magicalfable from the writer the origin
writer of Guys and Dolls.
There are several BarbaraStanwyck movies and she's always
(52:56):
fascinating to watch,particularly so early in her
film career when she's already aterrific actress and she really
connected on a personal levelwith Capra and I think you can
see that in the movies you getthe later Capra.
His last film at Columbia, mrSmith Goes to Washington, a
movie that is, yes, it has ahappy ending we all wish could
(53:19):
happen in real life.
But so much of it is still trueand relevant.
And yeah, lost Horizon we'vetalked about.
You can't take it with you.
1938's Best Picture winner, ahuge hit on Broadway, adapted
for the screen by Vicky's father, robert Riskin.
Lots of extras, a newdocumentary.
I don't want to sound like atotal shill, but as a movie buff
(53:41):
I really can't wait to have allthis material.
Speaker 1 (53:45):
Well, I mean, that's kind of what we do on this
podcast, stephen.
We talk about movies that arecoming out on 4K or Blu-ray and
if you aren't familiar with them, we try to help people who are.
And if you love the movie, it'sgreat to revisit together.
And I guess the really uniqueand wonderful thing is that we
(54:07):
got to hear from you, victoria,and the personal stories that
your memories of your father andyour mother and their
relationship to these films.
So thank you so much for comingon and sharing those.
Speaker 3 (54:20):
Oh, it's been my great pleasure and I hope you
get a chance to read the book,because it'll be a deep dive
into a personal life ofHollywood of the 1930s.
Speaker 2 (54:32):
Yeah, vicki's book on her parents is extraordinary.
You get such a sense ofHollywood from the 20s to the
50s really, and beyond with yourmom.
It's a beautiful story.
Speaker 1 (54:44):
Well, this was a lot of fun.
Stephen and Victoria, Thank youso much for coming on the
podcast.
Speaker 2 (54:48):
Tim, it's been a pleasure being here and I hope
I'll see you again soon.
Take care, both of you.
Speaker 3 (54:53):
This was great soon.
Speaker 1 (55:00):
Take care both of you .
This is great For those of youinterested in purchasing Frank
Kampra at Columbia Collection,there is a purchase link in the
podcast show notes and on ourwebsite at wwwtheextrastv.
If this is the first episode ofthe Extras you've listened to
and you enjoyed it, please thinkabout following the show at
your favorite podcast providerand if you're on social media,
you can find our links on theshow notes here.
And for our long-term listeners, don't forget to subscribe and
(55:22):
leave us a review at iTunes,spotify or your favorite podcast
provider.
Until next time you've beenlistening to Tim Millard, stay
slightly obsessed you.
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