August 2, 2023 • 41 mins
Filmmaker Gregory Orr joins the podcast to discuss the new updated release of his documentary film JACK L. WARNER: THE LAST MOGUL which has been remastered in HD for an all-new digital and DVD release with extras.
We start our discussion with Greg's remembrances of his step-grandfather and the origins of the documentary back in 1992. Greg then details his family history, including how Jack met his grandmother, his silent film star great-grandfather, his parents acting careers, and his father's time as the head of Warner Bros Television.
We conclude our discussion with a review of the updates to this new version of the documentary, some of the new content that has been added, and the extras available on the new DVD.
Purchase links on Amazon:
Jack L. Warner: The Last Mogul DVD
Jack L. Warner: The Last Mogul On Demand
Official Facebook Page: Jack L. Warner: The Last Mogul on Facebook
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Hello and welcome to the extras, where we take you
behind the scenes of yourfavorite TV shows, movies and
animation and then release ondigital DVD, blu-ray and 4K or
your favorite streaming site.
I'm Tim Lager host.
As many of you know, we talk alot about Warner Brothers and
Warner Brothers films andtelevision on this podcast, and
that's mainly because I workedat Warner Brothers for nearly 14
(00:28):
years.
But with this year'scelebration of the 100th
anniversary of the studio, we'vealso had a chance to dive into
the history of the studio, and afew of you have asked on our
Facebook page if we could everhear from any members of the
Warner family.
Well, I'm happy to say thattoday we have the good fortune
to have filmmaker Gregory Orr asour guest to talk about the
(00:51):
update for a new generation ofviewers of his documentary Jack
L Warner the Last Mogul, greg.
Welcome to the extras.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Thank you, Tim.
It's great to be here.
It's great to be with yourlisteners.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Well, as I just mentioned, many people have
asked like is there anybodystill associated with the studio
, who is from the originalfamily?
And I never had an answer tothat.
But I knew that there weredocumentaries out there and that
you had done one, obviously afew years back.
So it was great to hear fromyou and that you would be
(01:25):
willing to come on the podcast.
So I'm very happy about that.
But before we dive into adiscussion of the documentary, I
just wanted to ask you it'sobviously the 100th year
anniversary of the studio.
Just how do you feel about that, knowing that the studio with
your family name on it hasachieved that centennial mark?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Well, I am proud and touched that a series of
administrations since mygrandfather left and his
brothers sold their shares andit's moved into a new generation
of executives and filmmakersand innovation has continued to
be their premature.
They want to keep up withaudience needs and demands,
(02:09):
pushing the envelope, so it's atough road.
The movie business has alwaysbeen difficult.
It's always been catch up ortry to get ahead of the audience
, as the Warner Brothers didwith the jazz singer and
subsequent films where theypushed the boundaries.
So watching new administrationsdo that it's impressive and I
(02:30):
know the movie industry is inthe middle of a tight spot now.
I just wish new administrationwell and let's keep movies here
for another 100 years, andWarner Brothers especially.
Right, right.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Well, I know that a lot of our listeners are big
Warner Brothers fans and theybuy a lot of Warner Brothers
movies and Warner Archive moviesand I'm sure that many of them
have seen the originaldocumentary that released back
in 93 for that I guess thatwould have been for the 70th
anniversary year and that'stitled Jack-O-Warner the Last
(03:05):
Muggle.
I rewatched it been a few yearsand I'm looking there.
You're a really young man in itbut you're a little bit of the
focus or point of view,especially as the piece starts.
For the listeners who aren't asfamiliar, tell me a little bit
about the origins of that andwhat kind of led you to make
that.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Well, jack-warner died in 1978.
He was my step-grandfather.
Actually, I knew him growing upas my grandfather and he
treated me kids as a grandparent.
So when he died in 1978, mygrandmother remained in this
large estate that they had builtin Beverly Hills, a nine-acre
estate which was beautiful.
It had waterfalls and golfcourse and giant swimming pools,
(03:48):
an inlaid octopus on the bottomof the pool.
And when my grandmother died in1990, I knew a whole way of
life was disappearing.
A Hollywood royalty, the castle,the Buckingham Palace of
Hollywood, was going to theauction block and my aunt was
handling the sale, jack-warner'sdaughter and I wanted to get up
(04:12):
there and preserve it before itwas sold.
So a friend of mine, don Priest, who later became the editor of
my documentary, and I went upthere with a video camera and
simply shot some things, mewandering around the house
itself, the grounds, just topreserve it.
And I thought I'd make a shortfilm for my family or something.
I had not yet made adocumentary.
I'd made some TV commercialsand promotional films and so
(04:35):
forth, and this was somethingsmall.
But as it grew, as I realizedthere's obviously a great story
here.
Let me jump into it.
So it became a feature-lengthdocumentary, I had to raise
money.
It became a larger format thattook about three years to make.
So that was the 1993 iterationand during all that time it was
(04:55):
my first documentary and it waswell-received.
It never played in the UnitedStates, which is interesting.
I could not sell it in the US.
Warner Brothers took a cut-downversion over for a DVD extra on
a release of Casablanca, Ithink in 2008 or 2006.
And so the feature-lengthversion never showed here.
(05:15):
It showed overseas.
Lots of people bought itinternationally.
So with the 100th anniversarycoming, I said I want to update
this film because there werethings missing.
It could have been a fullerfilm and material was good, but
it could have been better.
So for years I thought aboutthis and with the 100th
anniversary approaching, I saidnow's the time to do this.
(05:36):
So got some resources togetherand started diving back into the
archives and how to do this andactually in 4K, up res
everything that couldn't befound in the original.
So the interviews are very welldone in terms of up res into 4K
, a process that somehow makesthings look pretty good.
But everything else we wentback to photos.
We went back to archivalfootage.
(05:56):
Warner Brothers provided newfilm clips all in 4K, and I
wanted a film that would lastfor the next generation and
hopefully some futuregenerations, in a pristine
manner.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, and I just rewatched it, as I mentioned
earlier, and I saw how good itlooks and what you've redone
with the photos and everythingand, more than that, the content
.
It just is kind of a timelesscontent because it's telling a
story about your grandfather and, of course, it's about your
whole extended family as well.
(06:31):
One thing that you also go intothere is the fact that your mom
and your dad had a very goodcareer and their career is tied
into Warner Brothers and thatstory is in there, which is
fascinating.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about your mom, and I think
a lot of people will go, oh yeah, as soon as you say what it is
(06:53):
that she's probably best knownfor in terms of Warner Brothers
film.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
As I said, Jack Warner is my step-grandfather.
My mother is around nine yearsold when her mother married Jack
Warner.
My mother's real father and myactual grandfather is a silent
film actor named Don Page, whowent under the name of Don
Avarado, a silent screen star ofsome note, sort of a Rudolph
(07:19):
Valentino knockoff, a Latinlover type.
So I was surrounded by sort ofmovie people, actors and so
forth, and I grew up with JackWarner.
My mother grew up in that housewith her mother and her
stepfather and when she wasabout 17, she was taking acting
classes at Warner Brothers andSophie Rosenstein, the acting
(07:41):
coach, gave her a script to readand a part to read and she read
it and Sophie said oh, that'svery good, Let me call in the
casting director for this film.
And that person came in andsaid oh, that's good, that's
going to call in the director.
He kept going until theyfinally said well, I think she
could do this part, but herstepfather is Jack Warner.
Should we ask the boss?
(08:02):
And they wanted my mother to goto Jack and say can I do this
movie part?
Nobody wanted to approach himabout it.
So someone finally did it andhe said okay, she can do it, but
we're not putting her undercontract.
And that role was of a youngwoman from Bulgaria who goes to
Humphrey Bogart in the movieCasablanca to ask for his help
and advice in getting letters oftransit for she and her husband
(08:25):
to leave Casablanca.
So at age 17, just out of highschool, it was her first film
role and it's a stroke of luckin a sense, that you landed in
such a film.
So that's how she started hercareer and did not get a
contract at Warner's.
My grandfather was not crazyabout having a family member as
an actor, I guess, and she didthings at MGM and later came
(08:49):
back and did Warner Brotherstelevision.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I remember I mean, as I'm watching and I see that and
I connected the dots to you Iwas like, wow, that's fantastic,
because what movie is moreassociated with Warner Brothers
than Casablanca?
But at the time of the filming,nobody, of course, knew that.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah, that's a good point.
I met the script at home.
Her stepfather would bring homescripts and she'd read them at
home as a young girl.
And she read Casablanca and shesaid, eh, it's kind of old
fashioned, it's a little creakyand I don't know.
And that's what she told me.
And she said later when sheheard that Ingrid Bergman was
going to be in it.
Then she said, oh, she brings alot of class, so maybe it'll be
(09:29):
a better movie.
Right, she ends up in the movie.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Right.
Well, it's a, it's a classicscene that everybody knows.
I mean, you see the refugees inthat.
But in the scene where she iswith Humphrey Bogart and she's a
newlywed and you can just seethat she, you know, she's afraid
that her husband is losing alltheir money and she's going to
have to sleep with thecommissioner, and you just feel
(09:54):
for her.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
And then the fact that that character breaks
through that cold exterior, youknow, and the bogart, and that's
what she's there for as acharacter, to mirror what Ingrid
Bergman's character is possiblygoing to do.
That you know, could you everforgive a woman for doing
something like this?
And and that's so.
(10:16):
She speaks sort of the debatethat has to go on in Bogart's
mind as the character Right.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Well, that was a great role for her and a great
role that goes down in filmhistory for Warner Brothers and
and to have her so associatedwith it is so cool.
But then I was also just it wasgreat to see in the documentary
how important or how activeyour father, bill Orr, was as
(10:44):
well.
He was an actor.
Tell us a little bit about hiscareer and then how he got kind
of brought into the WarnerBrothers family.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
He grew up in New York.
His father had had a seat onthe New York Stock Exchange,
lost everything with the crash,so he had somewhat privileged
background, but then a lot ofthat went away too.
So he and his mother came outto Los Angeles when I think he
was 16, they drove cross countryand at a nightclub an agent,
henry Wilson, came up to him andsaid you know, are you an actor
(11:14):
, young man?
Because we're looking forpeople to do some screen tests.
And so he spent the summer,part of the summer, doing a
screen test.
He said it was great, I got tokiss all these actresses.
He thought about maybe being adoctor, but so he went back to
finish high school and when hecame back I said I want to do
this movie thing, this movieacting thing.
So he came out here and tookclasses, he did some modeling
(11:37):
and then he was in a stage showthat was very popular this is
all before World War II in themid late 30s called Meet the
People.
It was sort of a musical review.
Llewela Parsons hosted it, thefamous gossip columnist, and
everyone in Hollywood came tosee it because he had singing
and dancing and skits a littlebit like Saturday Night Live of
its day.
(11:57):
So he became known and ended upgetting a contract with Warner
Brothers as an actor.
In the documentary he mentionsmeeting Jack Warner once on the
lot and the Jack just said, ohhello, young man, or something
like that, and that's, that'sthe only contact.
But he eventually got to meetmy grandmother, jack's wife, who
(12:19):
invited him up to the house andfrom that he met my mother and
eventually started seeing her.
So he married my mother at theend of World War II and went
back to the east coast with mymother to go back to doing a
nightclub act and possibly dosome more acting.
It wasn't working out and it'sactually Jack Warner who said
look, young man, you're notgoing anywhere.
Why don't you come here and besome sort of assistant?
(12:41):
My father told me that Jack saidwhy don't you come and you can
spy on all the actors and otherpeople to see if they're getting
in on time.
Oh yeah, that's a great job.
A lamp dropped on my head oneday.
So he said to him why don't Igo through the scripts and see
if there's some nice parts forour young actors, our new, our
new hires and sort of fit peopleinto these small roles and
(13:04):
that's where he did and thenbecame an assistant for my
grandfather and eventually, inmid 1950s I think 1956, he was
sent over to run the new, thefledgling TV department and
that's where we got the WarnerBrothers shows.
Cheyenne was the first one, andthen Maverick and 77, sunset
(13:25):
Strip and Bronco, and all thosewesterns, yeah, detective shows,
surfside Six, the Alaskans, Imean, it went on and on.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
They had the NIF two, nine.
Those are all part of hiscredits.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
All part of his credit which is at the end of
the show I think.
I've been told he had aboutnine shows a week on.
It's a lot of production butit's sort of say the studio not
sort of it did, it, did Right.
The lot was very quiet fromfeatures through some of that
early time so the TV shows werekeeping the company going.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah, and I wanted to point this out because I did
work primarily on the TV side ofthe home entertainment releases
when I was at Warner Brothersand I have great respect for
Warner Brothers television Inthe years that I was there.
One Brothers Television wasnumber one worldwide in terms of
(14:17):
distribution of content forsomething like 12 out of 13
years or 12 out of 14 years.
In other words, that TVdivision was just a moneymaker
for the studio, and film yearsare great or poor or average or
whatever, but the TV was justcash flow which every studio
(14:40):
needs, and it also put out a lotof content, of course, to keep
characters or franchises alive,such as the DC franchises or the
animation around the world, andit was just a fantastic group.
So I have a soft place in myheart for that division that
your dad pretty much launchedfor the studio and added the
(15:03):
gate just a great success.
So I thought that was prettyspecial, pretty cool, and then
he worked there for quite a fewyears before before, of course,
everything came into an airUnceremoniously.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
let's go.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Unceremoniously, as it always does, but he had a lot
of good years there, alsoworking very closely with Jack
Warner.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
He did, and at one point he was put in charge of
all production around the timeof my Fair Lady and Camelot.
I think he may have made thedeal for Camelot Jack Warner is,
of course, very involved withmy Fair Lady Right and then he
was asked to step back totelevision.
Jack Webb had been running itfor a while and people weren't
(15:46):
happy with Jack Webb I don'tknow if they sold any new shows
and it wasn't going well.
So my father spent the lastyear of his career there in
television and they weren't thesame company in terms of success
.
They had been.
My father said in the early daysof television you could just
call up ABC and sell a show on afew lines.
Abc was so desperate forcontent that they had to defer.
(16:10):
In a sense they really neededWarner Brothers to make content.
So my father says it was fairlyeasy to sell a show.
You could sell a show on theway to lunch.
It's very different, obviously,now.
So he got that together and Ithink there's one producer per
show then and one casting agentvery small top ranks.
(16:31):
Obviously it's much morecomplicated and more people are
needed.
Now.
Yeah, and they made I don'tknow what.
They made 32, 36 shows a year.
At first it's a really bigschedule.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Right, right.
Were you of the age where youwere able to go to any of those
sets or see any of that, or werethey more sheltering you from
that side of the business?
Speaker 2 (16:52):
It's a good question, because my father did not want
me to be a Hollywood kid.
My brother, the sister and II'm the youngest of three.
He did not want us, so I'd loveto go into the studio though,
so arrangements would be made togo out there and see something
being shot and I could sit on asoundstage all day.
It's really where I fell inlove with movies.
Not watching them in a movietheater like most normal people,
(17:15):
but the chances of being on aset and watching this group of
people to like to play something.
Imagine it happened right thereand everyone cooperating to do
it.
Of course everyone was nice tome I'm boss's son so they have
to be but I really enjoyed itand so I got to see.
It, did have a family feel andthat was a family that I know is
(17:37):
contentious.
Just like on the movie side,the TV side had its own problems
and stars not getting paid muchand wanting more.
So it's tough that way andpeople suing James Garner most
famously, I suppose, suing toget out of this contract.
But it was a very special placeand small in terms of the
(17:57):
amount of people who were makingthese shows.
There weren't many of thembehind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
So growing up then, did you see your grandfather
that often when you would go tosee your grandmother, or was he
famously just always gone andbusy, and what you talk about
how that had a huge impact, ofcourse negatively, with his
family, right?
Speaker 2 (18:23):
When he came along he was slowing down a bit but he
still around the studio whenevery day was involved, saw all
the footage being shot, all theprinted material from films.
But he did not watch thetelevision shows, their footage.
He liked it because it mademoney, but he didn't have an
interest in the medium.
He didn't like televisionparticularly.
(18:45):
My father told me that hedidn't allow a TV set to be a
prop, you know, a piece offurniture in a lot of the movies
.
He just didn't want to remindpeople that this existed.
So just don't ignore that boxin the corner.
And I would see him on occasion,not every time I went to the
studio, but we'd go to hisoffice and it was always a
(19:06):
little chilly down there.
I think you stepped down acouple steps to go into his
office, so that was a treat tosee him to everyone.
Again, everyone was nice to me,his assistants, bill Schaefer
was very nice to me and I'd goup to the house.
But you just didn't show up atgrandpa Jack's house uninvited
or unignored, you know, withoutmaking a reservation in a sense,
(19:28):
because the house did have astudio guard at the gate.
But you know, you could go.
You could go to play tennis onoccasion or he'd have screens up
there which are great, andlittle dinners and invite people
up to watch movies in theprojection room.
So I would drop in.
And then twice in my life I didgo to the south of France where
he and my grandmother had ahouse and kept on tea right on
(19:50):
the water.
You'd walk off the littleterrace into five feet of
Mediterranean, which was prettygreat.
So I did get to see him theretwo summers, but he wasn't
someone as a kid who you can getreally close to.
He was always the entertainer,he was the showman, the
ringmaster, and so he did allthe talking.
(20:10):
He didn't really ask you muchhow you're doing, but I was
included and you're in this showof his.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Well, let's talk a little bit about the documentary
.
There's so much good footage inthat documentary of what you
just related.
There's footage of you guys inthe south of France, I think,
maybe, or at least Jack and yourdad there, I know.
There's home footage of youguys at the Beverly Hills Place.
There's other great homefootage.
(20:39):
Where did that come from?
I think that's what makes, ofcourse, your documentary so
unique is how personal thestorytelling is.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
I did want to tell the history from what I knew,
and that's where I began andthen included all the footage
which I found this was not the16 millimeter footage that's in
the documentary came to me verylate and supposedly recovered
from trash cans.
When the house is being sold ohwow, by one of the studio, one
(21:08):
of the guards.
He said, look, I found this inthe trash.
Whether that's true or not, buthe gave it to me and that was
beautiful color footage from the1930s and then also when we
were kids in the early 60s, late50s, early 60s.
So that was a starting point,the personal family footage, the
stuff in the south of France inthe 50s.
(21:29):
So Getting that transferred andthen re transferred recently
into high definition it was justtransferred to NTSC back in
1990s.
So, rounding that out, youbegin the search of what's out
there and Warner Brothers wasnice about providing some photos
.
So USC Cinema Library had a lotof photos and also my
grandfather's scrapbooks, whichwere oversized scrapbooks that
(21:54):
he had put together or had anassistant put together For his
entire career.
There were 50 of them.
Wow, he wrote in them andthere's everything from,
obviously, photos to letters, toInvitations to premieres, to
covers from Hollywood reporterand variety that documents his
career and his, his personalinvolvement in things, and so
(22:18):
that was great to go through andget material out of that for
the update I did.
Besides wanting to make it inhigh definition I I needed more
visual material.
I knew I there was out therestuff that I did not find in
1992, so went back to all kindsof archives and Was looking for
how to tell the story visuallyin a more compelling way, an
(22:39):
entertaining way.
So that's where it came acrossmore interesting archival
footage and short films that wethat we can discuss.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
So do those 50 scrapbooks belong to the family,
or are they part of the WarnerBrothers archives?
Speaker 2 (22:55):
They're donated to USC.
The question?
I don't know if they're.
I'm not sure they're directlypart of the Warner Brothers
archives.
I think it's a part of the JackWarner collection at USC cinema
library.
I see, right.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Well, I mean, that's a treasure.
It's obviously not everything,because it's a point of view of
of things.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
But but reminding me how sent and people talk about
Jack.
You know there's plenty ofnegative about Jack, sure, and I
think a lot of it's true.
But he didn't seem to show alot of sentimental feelings,
although he could be sentimentalabout certain people old actors
He'd keep on the payroll attimes, silent film actors He'd
work with he'd cast again.
But when he comes to scrapbooksyou realize how much his story
(23:36):
and the people in it mattered tohim and he writes these little
notes a good time was had by all, or these are the good old days
, and so this is something,maybe privately for him.
I don't know if he ever showedit to anybody.
He had a trophy room at thestudio.
They definitely showed off topeople, you know, with all these
awards the studio and he hadgotten, but the scrapbooks may
have been just for him to lookthrough.
(23:57):
So you get an insight into someemotional depth in terms of his
, his life and the people in it.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Yeah, I mean, it's no mystery the story of how he
treated his brothers andBasically took the studio away
from them in the 50s or whatever.
I mean that's a well-knownstory.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yes, and one of the things I was not able to do,
even in the in the update, wasgoing to it more fully.
At the time I didn't have theinformation.
I only started getting thatafter the film, the update had
been done, and so on the DVDthat's gonna be coming out, we
did a little extra segment aboutthat sale in 1956.
That is illuminating in termsof what Jack knew, what the
(24:40):
brothers knew, what actuallyhappened in terms of the sale.
Someone has told me that hecheated his brothers.
I Always.
I say now he fooled hisbrothers into keeping his job
and Buying back some shares, buthe didn't cheat them.
Everyone's paid, everyone waspaid for their shares and Harry
(25:00):
Warner and an Albert Warnerstayed on the board of directors
of Warner Brothers after thesale.
But Jack had gone behind theirback in terms of staying and
they were all supposed to selland get out of the business.
And he was younger.
He was 11 years younger and Idon't want to go on about a
whole defense of him, but I justthink it's sort of the nuance
of it that what he did was itsays.
(25:22):
It says how bad therelationship was at that point
With the brothers that he reallycouldn't talk to them and say
look, I want to stay Right.
You know I'm younger and I'mhappy at this job, and the new
owners, or the main investors,wanted him to stay too.
There's another man.
They wanted, cy Fabian, who ranthe Stanley Warner theaters.
His family owned those theatersand he was supposed to be the
(25:44):
next president of the company,and the Justice Department would
not let him Take on that joband keep owning theaters.
You know there had been theconsent decrees Separating the
studios from the exhibition.
So when, when their firstchoice could not take the job,
they turned to my grandfatherand said we'd like you to run
the studio you have, you knowhow to do this and we have
(26:06):
confidence in you and thestockholders will have
confidence in you, and that'sthat's how he got that job to be
head of the whole company.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
So that's one of the extras that are gonna be on the
and is it gonna be?
You said it's gonna be a 4krelease, correct?
Speaker 2 (26:21):
No, it's an HD release.
It's an HD release.
Okay, so we're not doing it atthis point.
They're not doing a UHD, youknow, I'll try a definition for
him and that'll be one of theextras on there.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
And then do you have any other extras that are gonna
be part of this release?
Speaker 2 (26:36):
we added a little Short news reel about the
launching of the s s BenjaminWarner, as the last Liberty ship
launched at the end of WorldWar two.
Benjamin Warner was thebrother's father, who had come
from Poland with his wife, andso that's sort of sweet to see
them all there at the shipyardlaunching the ship.
(26:58):
And then we have a long excerptfrom the HUE Act hearings, the
House of American ActivitiesCommittee's hearings in 1947,
with Jack as a witness at histestimony During that, and
that's that's also a highdefinition from the National
Archives.
So I thought, okay, here's away to people watch that you
(27:19):
know big chunk of those thosehearings in his testimony.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Well, I saw on the credits that our good friends
George Feltonstein and JeffBriggs had some help with this
new version, or updated version.
What, what did they do with youto help Pull this together?
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Well, I am very fortunate that George and Jeff
are at the studio because theylove the history, they know the
history, they want to preservethe history and so when I went
back after 30 years, theoriginal people From 30 years
ago just weren't there.
Judy Singer, who had, who haddone the clip licensing back in
1990s, had passed away and soapproaching a new administration
(28:00):
, a new group of people, andthey couldn't have been nicer
about it and more helpful andI'd have questions about I am
looking for this film.
Is that something WarnerBrothers owns or is that at UCLA
or where is that in?
George would look it up, youknow, on their database.
Same with Jeff finding photosand Helping me navigate their
(28:22):
their collection and pointing mein the right direction and just
being general sort cheerleadersbeing curious.
They like the history and theywere happy that I was delved
into it and they were happy tohelp.
I mean I you know they didn'twork for this film, but they did
spend some time and Idefinitely appreciate it.
And Julie Heath over cliplicensing also was enormously
(28:43):
helpful Because they could havesaid look, you made the film 30
years ago, just stick with thatwere we're busy and they were
busy because they were gettingready for the hundred, the
hundredth anniversary they weremaking.
Helping with the documentary,the Warner Brothers made the
four-part series, so I was veryfortunate and I'm very grateful
to all of them for making thisfilm a reality.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
And I think you mentioned that there were a few
clips or a few films or somesegments that you put into the
documentary, that maybe theyassisted with.
What are a few of those thatyou want people to be sure to
know about?
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Well, there's a great moment in the documentary where
we cut to a young woman drivingup in a big like Duesenberg on
the studio lot and LyleTalbott's at the wheel, the
actor and he says well, here weare at the Warner Brothers
Studios and this young womanwho's wearing some sort of sash
you can't quite tell what it issays gee, I've never been so
(29:42):
excited in all my life.
We go into sort of about WarnerBrothers and that's from a
short film called and sheLearned About Dames, which was
to promote the movie Dames, andit was about a young woman who
wins a contest and comes toWarner Brothers to see how
movies are made and maybe she'llget an acting part.
So they go around the studioand watch Busby Berkeley making
(30:04):
the film and it was a pristineprint that we got from UCLA's
archives and had it transferredto 4K.
So it's those kinds of momentsthat bring that past alive.
And there's a costume test forHumphrey Bogart in there with
Lauren Bacall for a film that hewas planning to make but did
(30:24):
not live to make.
It called Melville Goodman atthe time in 1956.
And the movie later became TopSecret Affair with Kirk Douglas.
So you see them together andthey're sort of clowning around
a little bit.
So there's these moments fromthe time that I think bring it
alive.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Yeah, that was a very amusing little clip because the
two of them are just having fun.
I mean, she's kind ofreferencing his height compared
to her and everything and it'sjust a moment that you think, oh
wow, where was this footage?
This is great behind the scenesstuff and there were so many
moments like that in this one.
(31:03):
I love the four-partdocumentary that has just been
released by Warner Brothers, butyour documentary is very
different.
It's really the story of JackWarner.
It really focuses on his lifeand, of course, pretty much his
whole life intersects withWarner Brothers, the studio.
(31:25):
But it gave you the opportunityto show these little moments
and show these little clips andget more intimate into the
storyline and I think that's thecharm of your documentary.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Thank you.
I wanted that so you'd have asense of him.
I will let historians, filmexperts, talk about all the
movies and Jack's history inrunning that company.
I certainly get into it.
It's not just about him at home, that's for sure.
There is a sense of, oh, jackWarner.
I see what kind of guy he wasand his energy and what made him
(32:00):
a good studio boss and then.
But also talk about I don'thide from his Peccadillos, his
faults.
They're there.
We talked to a mistress of his.
We talked to his son, jack Jr,who does become almost an ex son
(32:20):
.
He's inherited, and that's avery painful interview but very
honest.
So I wanted an honest look atJack, because the truth mattered
to me, but a balanced one too,that you really got a sense of a
man.
My father loved him.
Jack fired my father but myfather still loved him.
So there were a variety ofviews you could put into this
(32:42):
and I wanted that to preservethat.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
And I think that the documentary shows the complexity
of who Jack Warner was.
We, you know, most people haveheard the bad and everything,
but some of the intimate moments, some of the footage, some of
the discussion from the family,that is just really honest.
You know, people are veryhonest.
(33:06):
I thought Jack's very honestabout the fact that he and his
dad were estranged and howpainful that was, and you know
the fact that they tried to kindof reconcile and when he was
overseas doing the work as a youknow, it's a Colonel in the
military that they were able toreconnect.
But then as soon as he cameback to Hollywood, it just it
just fell apart again and Ithought that was very
(33:27):
fascinating.
I mean there's a toll that ittakes on a person to be in that
kind of a role that Jack Warnerwas in.
I mean we could make excuses orwe could try to examine it, but
it's not necessary.
I don't think you just, it'sjust a fascinating, fascinating
story.
So you're bringing this out nowand I think it's great for a
(33:48):
kind of a new generation,because there's a whole group of
people who, as you said, neverreally got to see the full
length feature.
So now it's available.
I sell on Amazon Prime.
It's, in other words, it'salready available on streaming
right.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Yes, video on demand right now.
We eventually go to otherplatforms, but for now it's
Amazon Prime and Apple andYouTube and other platforms for
rental or sale.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Right, so folks can access that right away.
And then when's this new highdefinition version of the movie
coming out on physical media?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
That will be on August 2nd, which is Jack
Warner's birthday, so I thoughtthat was an appropriate time to
release it and that'll have theDVD extras and I hope people who
are true film fans have it intheir collection and I think
it's a good teaching tool forfilm courses too, of a sort of
an overview of what the earlyAmerican pioneers were like.
(34:46):
And I don't know I don't wantto push aside any of the other
film pioneers because they'reobviously enormously important
from Lemley on.
But I think in the dictionarysomeday when you look up the
definition of movie mogul, Ihave a sense it's going to be a
picture of my grandfather.
He embodied so much of what wethink of as a cigar chopping,
(35:07):
fast, talking, flamboyantexecutive, and that's what he
was, and so it's a part ofAmerican history.
And he ran a company that hadenormously talented people and
sometimes they made unbelievablywonderful movies, and I wanted
to preserve a little bit of thatsystem too, of what it was like
to be at the studio duringthose times.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
And the Warner Brothers because of the word
brothers in there, has adifferent look than a few of the
other studios that had the onemogul for years or whatever that
we associate, but he was thelongest lasting of the brothers.
He was the mogul within thegroup that endured, for was it
50 years or so that he was?
(35:50):
It was 50 years.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
I mean he's the face, at least to the public.
Harry Warner did unbelievablygreat work in terms of his own
causes, promoting motionpictures as a force for good,
and so he was out there speakingtoo.
But Jack really had a certain,had both the energy and a
personality that loved to go outand and glad hand and go to
premieres and talk to people andhave dignitary.
(36:13):
People were constantly comingto the studio, dignitaries were
coming by and he'd be happy tomeet them, show them the trophy
room, give them a tour.
So he loved being a movie mogul.
I understand he didn't need alot of sleep, he had enormous
energy and he loved he was inthe people business.
If you really think about itthat he loved show biz from as a
kid.
He loved Vaughnville.
He joined his brothers as thekid brother.
(36:34):
They set up the business.
The older brothers dideverything initially and that he
was told what to do, which Ithink over time really bothered
him being told by your olderbrothers and wanted to get out
from under them.
But he just loved show businessand he loved the people who
made show business.
So as somebody in the peoplebusiness he developed a shrewd
(36:56):
understanding of talent and he'dcome back to New York several
times a year to look at showsand meet with people.
And you know he brought allthose talented people to Warner
Brothers and he was willing tofight with them.
He always got the last word,although, if you read the memos,
not everyone listened to him.
He was always frustrated atsome point.
You see, why don't people dowhat I asked him to do?
(37:18):
You know it's funny.
He wouldn't fire you over that,but he would just say that's it
.
We're finishing productiontoday.
So what?
We have another six days on theschedule.
Nope, we have enough footageand we're done.
That's it.
Turn off the lights.
This is your last day.
So he was in charge of it alland the youngest brother became
(37:39):
the head of the studio and hetook over a job that he wasn't
really trained to do when young.
The youngest is not the same asthe oldest and he was the fun
loving brother.
That's how he became the harshbusinessman at times too, but
it's all there in thedocumentary of his change, of
how people perceived him, andyou watch him do it, because you
(38:02):
have the footage and the stillphotos and excerpts from his
book.
He wrote a book right aroundthe time I, fair Lady, came out.
So, even though there's a lotof stuff that's either made up
or embellished his attitudeabout things, is we quoted and
have to do it.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
Yeah, well, it's a.
It's a very American story too,which I love.
The immigrant in one generationthat goes from nothing to being
, you know, part of Americanhistory and as, as one of the
the historians I think that youinterview in there says the
(38:41):
movie studios in the in thecourse of the last hundred years
have done so much to influenceAmerican culture, the way we
think, the way we perceivethings.
It's so now ingrained in thefabric of of our society.
And the Warner Brothers movies,specifically in the US here,
because they were the studio ofthe kind of the common man, so
(39:04):
to speak, and we can'tdisassociate it anymore.
It's just so now intertwined.
I mean, of course, what I do istalk about movies all the time
and TV and everything, but justfor the average person you can't
get away from the influencethat the industry has had, and
to have all that happen in onegeneration is astounding.
What a life and what a story,and your documentary is terrific
(39:27):
.
So, thank you, I recommend ithighly.
Well, thanks for coming on thepodcast and and just sharing
your stories.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
It was my pleasure to be here.
The Extras is a great podcastand I encourage people to keep
listening.
You always have good guests andGeorge is always wonderful when
he.
When he's on, he's soknowledgeable.
So I always learned somethingfrom listening to you to chat.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
Well, I feel like we have a similar mission, which is
to promote these wonderfulmovies and TV shows and all of
the entertainment that comes outof Warner Brothers and the
other studios as well, Though wejust happen to focus a lot on
the Warner Brothers, as Imentioned there in the open.
So well, it's been terrific andI look forward to the reaction
from people as they see the newversion of the movie.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Thanks very much, it's a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Well, I hope you enjoyed today's conversation as
much as I did.
I have seen the update toGreg's movie and I highly
recommend it for anyoneinterested in learning more
about Warner Brothers' historyin the life of Jack L Warner.
It is currently available ondigital for rental or purchase
and now on DVD with the Extras.
You can find purchase links andmore information in the podcast
(40:42):
show notes.
If you're on social media, besure and follow the show on
Facebook, Twitter or Instagramto continue the conversation and
to be a part of our community.
And check out our YouTubechannel, as we are posting more
videos there all the time,including my conversation with
Greg, in case you wanted tocheck that out.
And if you're a fan of WarnerBrothers, you're invited to our
Facebook group called the WarnerArchive and Warner Brothers
(41:04):
Catalog Group.
So look for that link on theFacebook page or in the podcast
show notes as well.
Until next time you've beenlistening to Tim Mellard Stay
slightly obsessed.
Hello and welcome to the extras, where we take you
behind the scenes of yourfavorite TV shows, movies and
animation and then release ondigital DVD, blu-ray and 4K or
your favorite streaming site.
I'm Tim Lager host.
As many of you know, we talk alot about Warner Brothers and
Warner Brothers films andtelevision on this podcast, and
that's mainly because I workedat Warner Brothers for nearly 14
(00:28):
years.
But with this year'scelebration of the 100th
anniversary of the studio, we'vealso had a chance to dive into
the history of the studio, and afew of you have asked on our
Facebook page if we could everhear from any members of the
Warner family.
Well, I'm happy to say thattoday we have the good fortune
to have filmmaker Gregory Orr asour guest to talk about the
(00:51):
update for a new generation ofviewers of his documentary Jack
L Warner the Last Mogul, greg.
Welcome to the extras.
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Thank you, Tim.
It's great to be here.
It's great to be with yourlisteners.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Well, as I just mentioned, many people have
asked like is there anybodystill associated with the studio
, who is from the originalfamily?
And I never had an answer tothat.
But I knew that there weredocumentaries out there and that
you had done one, obviously afew years back.
So it was great to hear fromyou and that you would be
(01:25):
willing to come on the podcast.
So I'm very happy about that.
But before we dive into adiscussion of the documentary, I
just wanted to ask you it'sobviously the 100th year
anniversary of the studio.
Just how do you feel about that, knowing that the studio with
your family name on it hasachieved that centennial mark?
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Well, I am proud and touched that a series of
administrations since mygrandfather left and his
brothers sold their shares andit's moved into a new generation
of executives and filmmakersand innovation has continued to
be their premature.
They want to keep up withaudience needs and demands,
(02:09):
pushing the envelope, so it's atough road.
The movie business has alwaysbeen difficult.
It's always been catch up ortry to get ahead of the audience
, as the Warner Brothers didwith the jazz singer and
subsequent films where theypushed the boundaries.
So watching new administrationsdo that it's impressive and I
(02:30):
know the movie industry is inthe middle of a tight spot now.
I just wish new administrationwell and let's keep movies here
for another 100 years, andWarner Brothers especially.
Right, right.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Well, I know that a lot of our listeners are big
Warner Brothers fans and theybuy a lot of Warner Brothers
movies and Warner Archive moviesand I'm sure that many of them
have seen the originaldocumentary that released back
in 93 for that I guess thatwould have been for the 70th
anniversary year and that'stitled Jack-O-Warner the Last
(03:05):
Muggle.
I rewatched it been a few yearsand I'm looking there.
You're a really young man in itbut you're a little bit of the
focus or point of view,especially as the piece starts.
For the listeners who aren't asfamiliar, tell me a little bit
about the origins of that andwhat kind of led you to make
that.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Well, jack-warner died in 1978.
He was my step-grandfather.
Actually, I knew him growing upas my grandfather and he
treated me kids as a grandparent.
So when he died in 1978, mygrandmother remained in this
large estate that they had builtin Beverly Hills, a nine-acre
estate which was beautiful.
It had waterfalls and golfcourse and giant swimming pools,
(03:48):
an inlaid octopus on the bottomof the pool.
And when my grandmother died in1990, I knew a whole way of
life was disappearing.
A Hollywood royalty, the castle,the Buckingham Palace of
Hollywood, was going to theauction block and my aunt was
handling the sale, jack-warner'sdaughter and I wanted to get up
(04:12):
there and preserve it before itwas sold.
So a friend of mine, don Priest, who later became the editor of
my documentary, and I went upthere with a video camera and
simply shot some things, mewandering around the house
itself, the grounds, just topreserve it.
And I thought I'd make a shortfilm for my family or something.
I had not yet made adocumentary.
I'd made some TV commercialsand promotional films and so
(04:35):
forth, and this was somethingsmall.
But as it grew, as I realizedthere's obviously a great story
here.
Let me jump into it.
So it became a feature-lengthdocumentary, I had to raise
money.
It became a larger format thattook about three years to make.
So that was the 1993 iterationand during all that time it was
(04:55):
my first documentary and it waswell-received.
It never played in the UnitedStates, which is interesting.
I could not sell it in the US.
Warner Brothers took a cut-downversion over for a DVD extra on
a release of Casablanca, Ithink in 2008 or 2006.
And so the feature-lengthversion never showed here.
(05:15):
It showed overseas.
Lots of people bought itinternationally.
So with the 100th anniversarycoming, I said I want to update
this film because there werethings missing.
It could have been a fullerfilm and material was good, but
it could have been better.
So for years I thought aboutthis and with the 100th
anniversary approaching, I saidnow's the time to do this.
(05:36):
So got some resources togetherand started diving back into the
archives and how to do this andactually in 4K, up res
everything that couldn't befound in the original.
So the interviews are very welldone in terms of up res into 4K
, a process that somehow makesthings look pretty good.
But everything else we wentback to photos.
We went back to archivalfootage.
(05:56):
Warner Brothers provided newfilm clips all in 4K, and I
wanted a film that would lastfor the next generation and
hopefully some futuregenerations, in a pristine
manner.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
Yeah, and I just rewatched it, as I mentioned
earlier, and I saw how good itlooks and what you've redone
with the photos and everythingand, more than that, the content
.
It just is kind of a timelesscontent because it's telling a
story about your grandfather and, of course, it's about your
whole extended family as well.
(06:31):
One thing that you also go intothere is the fact that your mom
and your dad had a very goodcareer and their career is tied
into Warner Brothers and thatstory is in there, which is
fascinating.
Why don't you tell us a littlebit about your mom, and I think
a lot of people will go, oh yeah, as soon as you say what it is
(06:53):
that she's probably best knownfor in terms of Warner Brothers
film.
Speaker 2 (06:58):
As I said, Jack Warner is my step-grandfather.
My mother is around nine yearsold when her mother married Jack
Warner.
My mother's real father and myactual grandfather is a silent
film actor named Don Page, whowent under the name of Don
Avarado, a silent screen star ofsome note, sort of a Rudolph
(07:19):
Valentino knockoff, a Latinlover type.
So I was surrounded by sort ofmovie people, actors and so
forth, and I grew up with JackWarner.
My mother grew up in that housewith her mother and her
stepfather and when she wasabout 17, she was taking acting
classes at Warner Brothers andSophie Rosenstein, the acting
(07:41):
coach, gave her a script to readand a part to read and she read
it and Sophie said oh, that'svery good, Let me call in the
casting director for this film.
And that person came in andsaid oh, that's good, that's
going to call in the director.
He kept going until theyfinally said well, I think she
could do this part, but herstepfather is Jack Warner.
Should we ask the boss?
(08:02):
And they wanted my mother to goto Jack and say can I do this
movie part?
Nobody wanted to approach himabout it.
So someone finally did it andhe said okay, she can do it, but
we're not putting her undercontract.
And that role was of a youngwoman from Bulgaria who goes to
Humphrey Bogart in the movieCasablanca to ask for his help
and advice in getting letters oftransit for she and her husband
(08:25):
to leave Casablanca.
So at age 17, just out of highschool, it was her first film
role and it's a stroke of luckin a sense, that you landed in
such a film.
So that's how she started hercareer and did not get a
contract at Warner's.
My grandfather was not crazyabout having a family member as
an actor, I guess, and she didthings at MGM and later came
(08:49):
back and did Warner Brotherstelevision.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
I remember I mean, as I'm watching and I see that and
I connected the dots to you Iwas like, wow, that's fantastic,
because what movie is moreassociated with Warner Brothers
than Casablanca?
But at the time of the filming,nobody, of course, knew that.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah, that's a good point.
I met the script at home.
Her stepfather would bring homescripts and she'd read them at
home as a young girl.
And she read Casablanca and shesaid, eh, it's kind of old
fashioned, it's a little creakyand I don't know.
And that's what she told me.
And she said later when sheheard that Ingrid Bergman was
going to be in it.
Then she said, oh, she brings alot of class, so maybe it'll be
(09:29):
a better movie.
Right, she ends up in the movie.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Right.
Well, it's a, it's a classicscene that everybody knows.
I mean, you see the refugees inthat.
But in the scene where she iswith Humphrey Bogart and she's a
newlywed and you can just seethat she, you know, she's afraid
that her husband is losing alltheir money and she's going to
have to sleep with thecommissioner, and you just feel
(09:54):
for her.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
And then the fact that that character breaks
through that cold exterior, youknow, and the bogart, and that's
what she's there for as acharacter, to mirror what Ingrid
Bergman's character is possiblygoing to do.
That you know, could you everforgive a woman for doing
something like this?
And and that's so.
(10:16):
She speaks sort of the debatethat has to go on in Bogart's
mind as the character Right.
Speaker 1 (10:23):
Well, that was a great role for her and a great
role that goes down in filmhistory for Warner Brothers and
and to have her so associatedwith it is so cool.
But then I was also just it wasgreat to see in the documentary
how important or how activeyour father, bill Orr, was as
(10:44):
well.
He was an actor.
Tell us a little bit about hiscareer and then how he got kind
of brought into the WarnerBrothers family.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
He grew up in New York.
His father had had a seat onthe New York Stock Exchange,
lost everything with the crash,so he had somewhat privileged
background, but then a lot ofthat went away too.
So he and his mother came outto Los Angeles when I think he
was 16, they drove cross countryand at a nightclub an agent,
henry Wilson, came up to him andsaid you know, are you an actor
(11:14):
, young man?
Because we're looking forpeople to do some screen tests.
And so he spent the summer,part of the summer, doing a
screen test.
He said it was great, I got tokiss all these actresses.
He thought about maybe being adoctor, but so he went back to
finish high school and when hecame back I said I want to do
this movie thing, this movieacting thing.
So he came out here and tookclasses, he did some modeling
(11:37):
and then he was in a stage showthat was very popular this is
all before World War II in themid late 30s called Meet the
People.
It was sort of a musical review.
Llewela Parsons hosted it, thefamous gossip columnist, and
everyone in Hollywood came tosee it because he had singing
and dancing and skits a littlebit like Saturday Night Live of
its day.
(11:57):
So he became known and ended upgetting a contract with Warner
Brothers as an actor.
In the documentary he mentionsmeeting Jack Warner once on the
lot and the Jack just said, ohhello, young man, or something
like that, and that's, that'sthe only contact.
But he eventually got to meetmy grandmother, jack's wife, who
(12:19):
invited him up to the house andfrom that he met my mother and
eventually started seeing her.
So he married my mother at theend of World War II and went
back to the east coast with mymother to go back to doing a
nightclub act and possibly dosome more acting.
It wasn't working out and it'sactually Jack Warner who said
look, young man, you're notgoing anywhere.
Why don't you come here and besome sort of assistant?
(12:41):
My father told me that Jack saidwhy don't you come and you can
spy on all the actors and otherpeople to see if they're getting
in on time.
Oh yeah, that's a great job.
A lamp dropped on my head oneday.
So he said to him why don't Igo through the scripts and see
if there's some nice parts forour young actors, our new, our
new hires and sort of fit peopleinto these small roles and
(13:04):
that's where he did and thenbecame an assistant for my
grandfather and eventually, inmid 1950s I think 1956, he was
sent over to run the new, thefledgling TV department and
that's where we got the WarnerBrothers shows.
Cheyenne was the first one, andthen Maverick and 77, sunset
(13:25):
Strip and Bronco, and all thosewesterns, yeah, detective shows,
surfside Six, the Alaskans, Imean, it went on and on.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
They had the NIF two, nine.
Those are all part of hiscredits.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
All part of his credit which is at the end of
the show I think.
I've been told he had aboutnine shows a week on.
It's a lot of production butit's sort of say the studio not
sort of it did, it, did Right.
The lot was very quiet fromfeatures through some of that
early time so the TV shows werekeeping the company going.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah, and I wanted to point this out because I did
work primarily on the TV side ofthe home entertainment releases
when I was at Warner Brothersand I have great respect for
Warner Brothers television Inthe years that I was there.
One Brothers Television wasnumber one worldwide in terms of
(14:17):
distribution of content forsomething like 12 out of 13
years or 12 out of 14 years.
In other words, that TVdivision was just a moneymaker
for the studio, and film yearsare great or poor or average or
whatever, but the TV was justcash flow which every studio
(14:40):
needs, and it also put out a lotof content, of course, to keep
characters or franchises alive,such as the DC franchises or the
animation around the world, andit was just a fantastic group.
So I have a soft place in myheart for that division that
your dad pretty much launchedfor the studio and added the
(15:03):
gate just a great success.
So I thought that was prettyspecial, pretty cool, and then
he worked there for quite a fewyears before before, of course,
everything came into an airUnceremoniously.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
let's go.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Unceremoniously, as it always does, but he had a lot
of good years there, alsoworking very closely with Jack
Warner.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
He did, and at one point he was put in charge of
all production around the timeof my Fair Lady and Camelot.
I think he may have made thedeal for Camelot Jack Warner is,
of course, very involved withmy Fair Lady Right and then he
was asked to step back totelevision.
Jack Webb had been running itfor a while and people weren't
(15:46):
happy with Jack Webb I don'tknow if they sold any new shows
and it wasn't going well.
So my father spent the lastyear of his career there in
television and they weren't thesame company in terms of success
.
They had been.
My father said in the early daysof television you could just
call up ABC and sell a show on afew lines.
Abc was so desperate forcontent that they had to defer.
(16:10):
In a sense they really neededWarner Brothers to make content.
So my father says it was fairlyeasy to sell a show.
You could sell a show on theway to lunch.
It's very different, obviously,now.
So he got that together and Ithink there's one producer per
show then and one casting agentvery small top ranks.
(16:31):
Obviously it's much morecomplicated and more people are
needed.
Now.
Yeah, and they made I don'tknow what.
They made 32, 36 shows a year.
At first it's a really bigschedule.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
Right, right.
Were you of the age where youwere able to go to any of those
sets or see any of that, or werethey more sheltering you from
that side of the business?
Speaker 2 (16:52):
It's a good question, because my father did not want
me to be a Hollywood kid.
My brother, the sister and II'm the youngest of three.
He did not want us, so I'd loveto go into the studio though,
so arrangements would be made togo out there and see something
being shot and I could sit on asoundstage all day.
It's really where I fell inlove with movies.
Not watching them in a movietheater like most normal people,
(17:15):
but the chances of being on aset and watching this group of
people to like to play something.
Imagine it happened right thereand everyone cooperating to do
it.
Of course everyone was nice tome I'm boss's son so they have
to be but I really enjoyed itand so I got to see.
It, did have a family feel andthat was a family that I know is
(17:37):
contentious.
Just like on the movie side,the TV side had its own problems
and stars not getting paid muchand wanting more.
So it's tough that way andpeople suing James Garner most
famously, I suppose, suing toget out of this contract.
But it was a very special placeand small in terms of the
(17:57):
amount of people who were makingthese shows.
There weren't many of thembehind the scenes.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
So growing up then, did you see your grandfather
that often when you would go tosee your grandmother, or was he
famously just always gone andbusy, and what you talk about
how that had a huge impact, ofcourse negatively, with his
family, right?
Speaker 2 (18:23):
When he came along he was slowing down a bit but he
still around the studio whenevery day was involved, saw all
the footage being shot, all theprinted material from films.
But he did not watch thetelevision shows, their footage.
He liked it because it mademoney, but he didn't have an
interest in the medium.
He didn't like televisionparticularly.
(18:45):
My father told me that hedidn't allow a TV set to be a
prop, you know, a piece offurniture in a lot of the movies
.
He just didn't want to remindpeople that this existed.
So just don't ignore that boxin the corner.
And I would see him on occasion,not every time I went to the
studio, but we'd go to hisoffice and it was always a
(19:06):
little chilly down there.
I think you stepped down acouple steps to go into his
office, so that was a treat tosee him to everyone.
Again, everyone was nice to me,his assistants, bill Schaefer
was very nice to me and I'd goup to the house.
But you just didn't show up atgrandpa Jack's house uninvited
or unignored, you know, withoutmaking a reservation in a sense,
(19:28):
because the house did have astudio guard at the gate.
But you know, you could go.
You could go to play tennis onoccasion or he'd have screens up
there which are great, andlittle dinners and invite people
up to watch movies in theprojection room.
So I would drop in.
And then twice in my life I didgo to the south of France where
he and my grandmother had ahouse and kept on tea right on
(19:50):
the water.
You'd walk off the littleterrace into five feet of
Mediterranean, which was prettygreat.
So I did get to see him theretwo summers, but he wasn't
someone as a kid who you can getreally close to.
He was always the entertainer,he was the showman, the
ringmaster, and so he did allthe talking.
(20:10):
He didn't really ask you muchhow you're doing, but I was
included and you're in this showof his.
Speaker 1 (20:18):
Well, let's talk a little bit about the documentary
.
There's so much good footage inthat documentary of what you
just related.
There's footage of you guys inthe south of France, I think,
maybe, or at least Jack and yourdad there, I know.
There's home footage of youguys at the Beverly Hills Place.
There's other great homefootage.
(20:39):
Where did that come from?
I think that's what makes, ofcourse, your documentary so
unique is how personal thestorytelling is.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
I did want to tell the history from what I knew,
and that's where I began andthen included all the footage
which I found this was not the16 millimeter footage that's in
the documentary came to me verylate and supposedly recovered
from trash cans.
When the house is being sold ohwow, by one of the studio, one
(21:08):
of the guards.
He said, look, I found this inthe trash.
Whether that's true or not, buthe gave it to me and that was
beautiful color footage from the1930s and then also when we
were kids in the early 60s, late50s, early 60s.
So that was a starting point,the personal family footage, the
stuff in the south of France inthe 50s.
(21:29):
So Getting that transferred andthen re transferred recently
into high definition it was justtransferred to NTSC back in
1990s.
So, rounding that out, youbegin the search of what's out
there and Warner Brothers wasnice about providing some photos
.
So USC Cinema Library had a lotof photos and also my
grandfather's scrapbooks, whichwere oversized scrapbooks that
(21:54):
he had put together or had anassistant put together For his
entire career.
There were 50 of them.
Wow, he wrote in them andthere's everything from,
obviously, photos to letters, toInvitations to premieres, to
covers from Hollywood reporterand variety that documents his
career and his, his personalinvolvement in things, and so
(22:18):
that was great to go through andget material out of that for
the update I did.
Besides wanting to make it inhigh definition I I needed more
visual material.
I knew I there was out therestuff that I did not find in
1992, so went back to all kindsof archives and Was looking for
how to tell the story visuallyin a more compelling way, an
(22:39):
entertaining way.
So that's where it came acrossmore interesting archival
footage and short films that wethat we can discuss.
Speaker 1 (22:47):
So do those 50 scrapbooks belong to the family,
or are they part of the WarnerBrothers archives?
Speaker 2 (22:55):
They're donated to USC.
The question?
I don't know if they're.
I'm not sure they're directlypart of the Warner Brothers
archives.
I think it's a part of the JackWarner collection at USC cinema
library.
I see, right.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Well, I mean, that's a treasure.
It's obviously not everything,because it's a point of view of
of things.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
But but reminding me how sent and people talk about
Jack.
You know there's plenty ofnegative about Jack, sure, and I
think a lot of it's true.
But he didn't seem to show alot of sentimental feelings,
although he could be sentimentalabout certain people old actors
He'd keep on the payroll attimes, silent film actors He'd
work with he'd cast again.
But when he comes to scrapbooksyou realize how much his story
(23:36):
and the people in it mattered tohim and he writes these little
notes a good time was had by all, or these are the good old days
, and so this is something,maybe privately for him.
I don't know if he ever showedit to anybody.
He had a trophy room at thestudio.
They definitely showed off topeople, you know, with all these
awards the studio and he hadgotten, but the scrapbooks may
have been just for him to lookthrough.
(23:57):
So you get an insight into someemotional depth in terms of his
, his life and the people in it.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Yeah, I mean, it's no mystery the story of how he
treated his brothers andBasically took the studio away
from them in the 50s or whatever.
I mean that's a well-knownstory.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yes, and one of the things I was not able to do,
even in the in the update, wasgoing to it more fully.
At the time I didn't have theinformation.
I only started getting thatafter the film, the update had
been done, and so on the DVDthat's gonna be coming out, we
did a little extra segment aboutthat sale in 1956.
That is illuminating in termsof what Jack knew, what the
(24:40):
brothers knew, what actuallyhappened in terms of the sale.
Someone has told me that hecheated his brothers.
I Always.
I say now he fooled hisbrothers into keeping his job
and Buying back some shares, buthe didn't cheat them.
Everyone's paid, everyone waspaid for their shares and Harry
(25:00):
Warner and an Albert Warnerstayed on the board of directors
of Warner Brothers after thesale.
But Jack had gone behind theirback in terms of staying and
they were all supposed to selland get out of the business.
And he was younger.
He was 11 years younger and Idon't want to go on about a
whole defense of him, but I justthink it's sort of the nuance
of it that what he did was itsays.
(25:22):
It says how bad therelationship was at that point
With the brothers that he reallycouldn't talk to them and say
look, I want to stay Right.
You know I'm younger and I'mhappy at this job, and the new
owners, or the main investors,wanted him to stay too.
There's another man.
They wanted, cy Fabian, who ranthe Stanley Warner theaters.
His family owned those theatersand he was supposed to be the
(25:44):
next president of the company,and the Justice Department would
not let him Take on that joband keep owning theaters.
You know there had been theconsent decrees Separating the
studios from the exhibition.
So when, when their firstchoice could not take the job,
they turned to my grandfatherand said we'd like you to run
the studio you have, you knowhow to do this and we have
(26:06):
confidence in you and thestockholders will have
confidence in you, and that'sthat's how he got that job to be
head of the whole company.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
So that's one of the extras that are gonna be on the
and is it gonna be?
You said it's gonna be a 4krelease, correct?
Speaker 2 (26:21):
No, it's an HD release.
It's an HD release.
Okay, so we're not doing it atthis point.
They're not doing a UHD, youknow, I'll try a definition for
him and that'll be one of theextras on there.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
And then do you have any other extras that are gonna
be part of this release?
Speaker 2 (26:36):
we added a little Short news reel about the
launching of the s s BenjaminWarner, as the last Liberty ship
launched at the end of WorldWar two.
Benjamin Warner was thebrother's father, who had come
from Poland with his wife, andso that's sort of sweet to see
them all there at the shipyardlaunching the ship.
(26:58):
And then we have a long excerptfrom the HUE Act hearings, the
House of American ActivitiesCommittee's hearings in 1947,
with Jack as a witness at histestimony During that, and
that's that's also a highdefinition from the National
Archives.
So I thought, okay, here's away to people watch that you
(27:19):
know big chunk of those thosehearings in his testimony.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Well, I saw on the credits that our good friends
George Feltonstein and JeffBriggs had some help with this
new version, or updated version.
What, what did they do with youto help Pull this together?
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Well, I am very fortunate that George and Jeff
are at the studio because theylove the history, they know the
history, they want to preservethe history and so when I went
back after 30 years, theoriginal people From 30 years
ago just weren't there.
Judy Singer, who had, who haddone the clip licensing back in
1990s, had passed away and soapproaching a new administration
(28:00):
, a new group of people, andthey couldn't have been nicer
about it and more helpful andI'd have questions about I am
looking for this film.
Is that something WarnerBrothers owns or is that at UCLA
or where is that in?
George would look it up, youknow, on their database.
Same with Jeff finding photosand Helping me navigate their
(28:22):
their collection and pointing mein the right direction and just
being general sort cheerleadersbeing curious.
They like the history and theywere happy that I was delved
into it and they were happy tohelp.
I mean I you know they didn'twork for this film, but they did
spend some time and Idefinitely appreciate it.
And Julie Heath over cliplicensing also was enormously
(28:43):
helpful Because they could havesaid look, you made the film 30
years ago, just stick with thatwere we're busy and they were
busy because they were gettingready for the hundred, the
hundredth anniversary they weremaking.
Helping with the documentary,the Warner Brothers made the
four-part series, so I was veryfortunate and I'm very grateful
to all of them for making thisfilm a reality.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
And I think you mentioned that there were a few
clips or a few films or somesegments that you put into the
documentary, that maybe theyassisted with.
What are a few of those thatyou want people to be sure to
know about?
Speaker 2 (29:21):
Well, there's a great moment in the documentary where
we cut to a young woman drivingup in a big like Duesenberg on
the studio lot and LyleTalbott's at the wheel, the
actor and he says well, here weare at the Warner Brothers
Studios and this young womanwho's wearing some sort of sash
you can't quite tell what it issays gee, I've never been so
(29:42):
excited in all my life.
We go into sort of about WarnerBrothers and that's from a
short film called and sheLearned About Dames, which was
to promote the movie Dames, andit was about a young woman who
wins a contest and comes toWarner Brothers to see how
movies are made and maybe she'llget an acting part.
So they go around the studioand watch Busby Berkeley making
(30:04):
the film and it was a pristineprint that we got from UCLA's
archives and had it transferredto 4K.
So it's those kinds of momentsthat bring that past alive.
And there's a costume test forHumphrey Bogart in there with
Lauren Bacall for a film that hewas planning to make but did
(30:24):
not live to make.
It called Melville Goodman atthe time in 1956.
And the movie later became TopSecret Affair with Kirk Douglas.
So you see them together andthey're sort of clowning around
a little bit.
So there's these moments fromthe time that I think bring it
alive.
Speaker 1 (30:42):
Yeah, that was a very amusing little clip because the
two of them are just having fun.
I mean, she's kind ofreferencing his height compared
to her and everything and it'sjust a moment that you think, oh
wow, where was this footage?
This is great behind the scenesstuff and there were so many
moments like that in this one.
(31:03):
I love the four-partdocumentary that has just been
released by Warner Brothers, butyour documentary is very
different.
It's really the story of JackWarner.
It really focuses on his lifeand, of course, pretty much his
whole life intersects withWarner Brothers, the studio.
(31:25):
But it gave you the opportunityto show these little moments
and show these little clips andget more intimate into the
storyline and I think that's thecharm of your documentary.
Speaker 2 (31:38):
Thank you.
I wanted that so you'd have asense of him.
I will let historians, filmexperts, talk about all the
movies and Jack's history inrunning that company.
I certainly get into it.
It's not just about him at home, that's for sure.
There is a sense of, oh, jackWarner.
I see what kind of guy he wasand his energy and what made him
(32:00):
a good studio boss and then.
But also talk about I don'thide from his Peccadillos, his
faults.
They're there.
We talked to a mistress of his.
We talked to his son, jack Jr,who does become almost an ex son
(32:20):
.
He's inherited, and that's avery painful interview but very
honest.
So I wanted an honest look atJack, because the truth mattered
to me, but a balanced one too,that you really got a sense of a
man.
My father loved him.
Jack fired my father but myfather still loved him.
So there were a variety ofviews you could put into this
(32:42):
and I wanted that to preservethat.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
And I think that the documentary shows the complexity
of who Jack Warner was.
We, you know, most people haveheard the bad and everything,
but some of the intimate moments, some of the footage, some of
the discussion from the family,that is just really honest.
You know, people are veryhonest.
(33:06):
I thought Jack's very honestabout the fact that he and his
dad were estranged and howpainful that was, and you know
the fact that they tried to kindof reconcile and when he was
overseas doing the work as a youknow, it's a Colonel in the
military that they were able toreconnect.
But then as soon as he cameback to Hollywood, it just it
just fell apart again and Ithought that was very
(33:27):
fascinating.
I mean there's a toll that ittakes on a person to be in that
kind of a role that Jack Warnerwas in.
I mean we could make excuses orwe could try to examine it, but
it's not necessary.
I don't think you just, it'sjust a fascinating, fascinating
story.
So you're bringing this out nowand I think it's great for a
(33:48):
kind of a new generation,because there's a whole group of
people who, as you said, neverreally got to see the full
length feature.
So now it's available.
I sell on Amazon Prime.
It's, in other words, it'salready available on streaming
right.
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Yes, video on demand right now.
We eventually go to otherplatforms, but for now it's
Amazon Prime and Apple andYouTube and other platforms for
rental or sale.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Right, so folks can access that right away.
And then when's this new highdefinition version of the movie
coming out on physical media?
Speaker 2 (34:22):
That will be on August 2nd, which is Jack
Warner's birthday, so I thoughtthat was an appropriate time to
release it and that'll have theDVD extras and I hope people who
are true film fans have it intheir collection and I think
it's a good teaching tool forfilm courses too, of a sort of
an overview of what the earlyAmerican pioneers were like.
(34:46):
And I don't know I don't wantto push aside any of the other
film pioneers because they'reobviously enormously important
from Lemley on.
But I think in the dictionarysomeday when you look up the
definition of movie mogul, Ihave a sense it's going to be a
picture of my grandfather.
He embodied so much of what wethink of as a cigar chopping,
(35:07):
fast, talking, flamboyantexecutive, and that's what he
was, and so it's a part ofAmerican history.
And he ran a company that hadenormously talented people and
sometimes they made unbelievablywonderful movies, and I wanted
to preserve a little bit of thatsystem too, of what it was like
to be at the studio duringthose times.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
And the Warner Brothers because of the word
brothers in there, has adifferent look than a few of the
other studios that had the onemogul for years or whatever that
we associate, but he was thelongest lasting of the brothers.
He was the mogul within thegroup that endured, for was it
50 years or so that he was?
(35:50):
It was 50 years.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
I mean he's the face, at least to the public.
Harry Warner did unbelievablygreat work in terms of his own
causes, promoting motionpictures as a force for good,
and so he was out there speakingtoo.
But Jack really had a certain,had both the energy and a
personality that loved to go outand and glad hand and go to
premieres and talk to people andhave dignitary.
(36:13):
People were constantly comingto the studio, dignitaries were
coming by and he'd be happy tomeet them, show them the trophy
room, give them a tour.
So he loved being a movie mogul.
I understand he didn't need alot of sleep, he had enormous
energy and he loved he was inthe people business.
If you really think about itthat he loved show biz from as a
kid.
He loved Vaughnville.
He joined his brothers as thekid brother.
(36:34):
They set up the business.
The older brothers dideverything initially and that he
was told what to do, which Ithink over time really bothered
him being told by your olderbrothers and wanted to get out
from under them.
But he just loved show businessand he loved the people who
made show business.
So as somebody in the peoplebusiness he developed a shrewd
(36:56):
understanding of talent and he'dcome back to New York several
times a year to look at showsand meet with people.
And you know he brought allthose talented people to Warner
Brothers and he was willing tofight with them.
He always got the last word,although, if you read the memos,
not everyone listened to him.
He was always frustrated atsome point.
You see, why don't people dowhat I asked him to do?
(37:18):
You know it's funny.
He wouldn't fire you over that,but he would just say that's it
.
We're finishing productiontoday.
So what?
We have another six days on theschedule.
Nope, we have enough footageand we're done.
That's it.
Turn off the lights.
This is your last day.
So he was in charge of it alland the youngest brother became
(37:39):
the head of the studio and hetook over a job that he wasn't
really trained to do when young.
The youngest is not the same asthe oldest and he was the fun
loving brother.
That's how he became the harshbusinessman at times too, but
it's all there in thedocumentary of his change, of
how people perceived him, andyou watch him do it, because you
(38:02):
have the footage and the stillphotos and excerpts from his
book.
He wrote a book right aroundthe time I, fair Lady, came out.
So, even though there's a lotof stuff that's either made up
or embellished his attitudeabout things, is we quoted and
have to do it.
Speaker 1 (38:19):
Yeah, well, it's a.
It's a very American story too,which I love.
The immigrant in one generationthat goes from nothing to being
, you know, part of Americanhistory and as, as one of the
the historians I think that youinterview in there says the
(38:41):
movie studios in the in thecourse of the last hundred years
have done so much to influenceAmerican culture, the way we
think, the way we perceivethings.
It's so now ingrained in thefabric of of our society.
And the Warner Brothers movies,specifically in the US here,
because they were the studio ofthe kind of the common man, so
(39:04):
to speak, and we can'tdisassociate it anymore.
It's just so now intertwined.
I mean, of course, what I do istalk about movies all the time
and TV and everything, but justfor the average person you can't
get away from the influencethat the industry has had, and
to have all that happen in onegeneration is astounding.
What a life and what a story,and your documentary is terrific
(39:27):
.
So, thank you, I recommend ithighly.
Well, thanks for coming on thepodcast and and just sharing
your stories.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
It was my pleasure to be here.
The Extras is a great podcastand I encourage people to keep
listening.
You always have good guests andGeorge is always wonderful when
he.
When he's on, he's soknowledgeable.
So I always learned somethingfrom listening to you to chat.
Speaker 1 (39:49):
Well, I feel like we have a similar mission, which is
to promote these wonderfulmovies and TV shows and all of
the entertainment that comes outof Warner Brothers and the
other studios as well, Though wejust happen to focus a lot on
the Warner Brothers, as Imentioned there in the open.
So well, it's been terrific andI look forward to the reaction
from people as they see the newversion of the movie.
Speaker 2 (40:13):
Thanks very much, it's a pleasure.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Well, I hope you enjoyed today's conversation as
much as I did.
I have seen the update toGreg's movie and I highly
recommend it for anyoneinterested in learning more
about Warner Brothers' historyin the life of Jack L Warner.
It is currently available ondigital for rental or purchase
and now on DVD with the Extras.
You can find purchase links andmore information in the podcast
(40:42):
show notes.
If you're on social media, besure and follow the show on
Facebook, Twitter or Instagramto continue the conversation and
to be a part of our community.
And check out our YouTubechannel, as we are posting more
videos there all the time,including my conversation with
Greg, in case you wanted tocheck that out.
And if you're a fan of WarnerBrothers, you're invited to our
Facebook group called the WarnerArchive and Warner Brothers
(41:04):
Catalog Group.
So look for that link on theFacebook page or in the podcast
show notes as well.
Until next time you've beenlistening to Tim Mellard Stay
slightly obsessed.
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