November 26, 2024 • 51 mins
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Discover the keys to nurturing a virtuous family environment as we engage with Andy Reed from the Heights School, who brings over twenty years of wisdom in middle school education. This conversation promises to equip you with essential strategies for balancing individual and family activities, setting impactful boundaries, and fostering shared experiences that enhance connectivity and joy. From the nuanced challenges of smartphone introduction to the profound benefits of screen-free family time, this episode offers a roadmap to strengthening the bonds that form the cornerstone of your child's development.
We unravel the unintended consequences of digital distractions on family dynamics and offer actionable insights for cultivating meaningful connections without screens. Hear firsthand how a friend's well-intentioned gift of smartphones led to unanticipated family disconnection, illustrating the critical need for mindful engagement. By prioritizing family dinners, open communication, and routines that encourage togetherness, we reinforce the idea that family is the most formative environment for growth. This episode emphasizes the value of creating a nurturing home culture where love, support, and unity prevail over all else.
Finally, we explore how aligning family and school values can create a harmonious learning experience for children. By maintaining open dialogue with educators and sharing aspirations and developmental objectives, parents can build a cohesive foundation for their child's growth. This episode is a heartfelt reflection on parenting's challenges and triumphs, underscoring the importance of a strong marital relationship in providing children with stability and security. Join us as we celebrate the journey of parenting and highlight the enduring mission of being present for our children in a world full of distractions.
The Thriving Family Accelerator provides an easy, 3-step process to lower stress, parent as a united team, and enjoy a true friendship with your spouse & relationship with your kids. Sign up now for this live parent coaching with proven methods for positively engaging your family and redistributing the mental load.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, welcome back parents.
I'm Jordan Langdon, your hostfor the show, and I just wanna
tell you that if you are kind ofwondering, like, what are the
most critical things I need tobe doing as a parent in order to
prepare my kids to leave thenest, to take their faith with
(00:20):
them, to be able to really fullyenjoy this life that they were
given, you're going to want totune into this episode.
On today's show we have AndyReed with us from the Heights
School.
Andy has been the head of themiddle school since 2000,.
So he has been working closelywith middle school boys and
(00:44):
their families for over 20 years.
Andy is a graduate fromGeorgetown University, where he
majored in philosophy and thepre-medical sciences.
He also played on the varsitybaseball team for Georgetown and
then Andy completed hisgraduate work at John Hopkins
University and holds a master'sin school administration.
(01:07):
Andy also serves on the boardat Families of Character, so I
have been personally blessed byhis wisdom, his advice and
definitely his support indeveloping content and serving
parents in a way that they canreally raise kids of great
character.
So Andy has written numerousarticles and offers videos and
(01:31):
podcasts, especially on topicsat the intersection of parenting
and education.
Andy and his wife Mary Margarethave six children two sons and
four daughters.
So welcome to the show, andyReid.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Thank you, jordan.
I want to start by just sayinghow grateful I am to be on the
show, but also to say thank youto you, jordan, because of all
the inspiring work you do forfamilies of character and all
the parents who tune in, just asa board member who sees the
behind the scenes.
Your work is heroic and I justwant to start by thanking you,
jordan.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Oh, thank you.
Thank you so much.
You do know the inner workingsof our organization.
You get the behind the scenes aview of things.
So I know that you know whatgoes into this and it's a joy.
It's my passion, for sure.
So, andy, I listened to yourtalk titled Family.
Sure so, andy, I listened toyour talk titled Family the Most
(02:27):
Formative School and was veryblessed by the content in that
talk.
So you are exposed to parentsand children every day, have
been over 20 years and have yourown family experience, so tell
us a little bit about what yousee that is happening with
families and what you've noticedthat parents really need these
(02:48):
days.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Well, thanks, jordan.
I am fortunate because I get tohave conversations with
literally hundreds of parentsand watch thousands of students
grow up, and I work in a schoolwhere there's really so many
thoughtful parents, parents whoare very intentional about the
way they're raising theirchildren.
So I'm just a beneficiary ofall these conversations and
(03:11):
seeing what's working and what'snot, and so that's what I'll
try to relate today just someperspectives on some of the
areas that I think parents areraising children who are
thriving or focusing, that Ithink parents are raising
children who are thriving orfocusing.
So the first is to understandthat every home has a culture,
that there's a culture at everyhome and as parents, we have to
(03:31):
be the leaders, we have to shapeit, we have to accompany our
children through their growthperiods.
In particular, I work withmiddle school students.
I work at a middle school forboys, and that can be a
challenging window of growth formany parents.
So I spend a lot of my timeencouraging parents and
listening to them, telling themthat lots of things are normal,
right, but the fact is is thatthe ones who are intentional
(03:56):
about parenting that spend timetalking to their spouse about
the ways they'd like to raisetheir children, especially early
on.
There's an opportunity there todo things together, and that
culture of the home requires acertain amount of extra effort,
and I think that comes throughin just the devotion that the
parents show, who are trying tobuild that sense of culture.
(04:19):
The culture is sort of like theair they breathe.
It's what you expect of them,but also what you hold to be
true, what you hold to be dear,and you have to hold each other
to be dear.
That time together when they'reyoung is a special window.
And teaching your children thatyou want them to grow, you want
(04:40):
them to remain close, that asyou work together as a mom and
dad, sometimes you have to beable to say no to some things.
And the interesting fact is, Ithink, other than telling your
kids I love you, sometimes youdo have to tell them no.
That might be the next mostimportant word, because you have
to be interested in theirlong-term happiness.
(05:01):
What do I mean by that?
Well, for starters, I'll justgive an example.
If you look at your calendar afamily calendar and ask yourself
how many activities are justgoing to be individual-based
activities and how manyactivities are going to be
actual family activities.
I think we have to create abalance there.
We have to create alsoopportunities for our children
(05:22):
to do things that are reallythoughtful at home, within the
family unit, whether it bethings like developing music or
playing sports together as afamily, going on hikes, getting
them out in nature.
These are so enriching, and toexperience things together as a
family is a real goal, whetherit be.
(05:42):
I think it starts early startswith reading to your children.
That's the first step.
I mean.
I think every family, in orderto have a culture of a home, has
to have a culture of reading inthe home, and that starts
pretty young.
There should be books.
It's okay if the books aren'tall perfectly organized, but
having them all around the home,that's an important thing.
(06:04):
And of course we can talk for awhile about screen time, but
screen time is really so oftenit's the opposite of
connectivity, and so maybe we'llget to that later in the talk.
But and why it's important toavoid too much screen time.
But for now I just wanted tosay the students who are
thriving that I work with andthe parents who seem to be
(06:27):
happiest are the ones who aregrowing in virtue, and that
takes time and you grow invirtue as a result of formation,
and the formation is it's allinterpersonal, it's all
relational, and so that's soimportant to have the right
amount of time together.
So for those of you who havethis instinct of we need to
(06:48):
spend more time together, Ithink it's good to listen to
that instinct.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yes, thank you for bringing that up, andy.
Just the idea that the way wegrow in virtue is through our
relationships.
Relationships, right, it's notthrough the to-dos or the check
boxes or how well the house isordered, but it's how we work
together as a unified team inorder to move the family forward
, in order to enjoy those thingsthat you were talking about,
(07:14):
like reading and some time to dothings in nature, like hiking
and that sort of thing that.
These are the things thatyou're noticing that students
who are thriving are coming fromfamilies where they really
prioritize these types ofactivities in the home and the
(07:35):
relationships become number one.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Right, that's right.
And I think that, in order tospend time in intentional ways
and give extraordinary amount ofattention to each other,
there's a tendency I think lotsof parents have these days is to
sort of take the freneticapproach how do I juggle
everything, how do I make it allhappen?
(07:59):
And that sort of promotes intheir own children an unsettled
mind.
You know the idea that it's howdo I get it all done?
And at the end of the day, asuccessful day is I checked
every box.
And that leads to kind of, youknow, having five short thoughts
at once instead of longthoughts.
I mean this unsettled mind canregularly wear itself out and
(08:23):
parents, you know, have todevelop in their own because
they can only give what theythemselves have.
They need to develop the quietmind, and I'll talk a little bit
about what I describe as thequiet mind, but it's the same
mind you're going to pray with.
But there's lots of foundationalhabits that families can
develop together and thesehabits are more contemplative in
(08:45):
nature.
So the contemplative mind isnurtured by, like we mentioned,
opportunities to be out innature.
That's really easy, that'ssomething that every human being
needs, you know, for ourchildren to be out in nature.
It teaches them to see, toappreciate natural beauty.
It teaches them nature.
(09:06):
It teaches them to see, toappreciate natural beauty.
It teaches them to see that theworld was made good, right.
It's a great confirmation ofall the goodness in the world.
You know, to go on a hike withchildren of any age and have
them turn over a leaf and lookat the veins, or pick up an
acorn and ask why is there a capthere?
Or just appreciate some of thisnatural beauty, of all the
leaves that are changing herewhere we are, that's an
(09:29):
opportunity, and so nature isone of the contemplative
patterns that I think is reallyvery easy.
You know, music, beautiful musicis another one making time for
beautiful music, and the nextstep to that is actually having
children develop an interest inmusical instruments and, as
parents, taking a real interestin their instruments and their
(09:51):
development as musicians.
I think music is part of themoral formation of our children
because naturally there's abeauty and there's a precision
to it, there's an order to itand there's an attentiveness,
and I think it's one of thegreat gifts of being a human
being is if you can appreciatebeautiful music together.
It's so accessible these days,especially reading.
(10:14):
We mentioned the importance ofreading.
This is also a habit thatdevelops a quiet mind.
You know, the opposite of thesekind of patterns is the mind
that goes to screens and that'sthe mind of having a hard time
with focus.
You know, if you compare ascreen to a black and white text
(10:36):
, they're just completelydifferent.
Things will learn to prefer allthe imagery being delivered
directly to it as opposed toactually actively engaging the
mind to develop the imagery,like a good story or a good poem
might.
So I know it may sound a littleold-fashioned, but these are
the things that we were made forand to experience them together
(11:00):
.
It actually helps develop thequiet mind and I believe that
it's our job as parents to teachour children how to pray.
The fact is is that prayer ishard.
Prayer is sometimes hard forkids.
Settling down and allowingthemselves to actually pray
requires practice at othercontemplative things.
(11:22):
So it's a bit like thefoundation, giving them this
quiet mind, the foundation, andthat means we may have to remove
some distractions from theirlives, and screens are
definitely the biggestdistracting, biggest isolating
element in children's livesthese days.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Thank you for saying that about them being isolating,
because I think so often whenwe have middle schoolers who are
turning 12, 13, 14, we think,ok, well, they're going to go
off and they're going to be atthese schools or we're going to
be away from them and we getworried about them.
So we ought to give them aphone, because we want to be
connected to them, we want themto be able to connect with us,
(12:04):
connected to them, we want themto be able to connect with us.
And then it turns out that theyget these phones and then we
notice that it seems that we arelosing the relationship with
our child, to this relationshipwith this rectangle.
That's right this thing theycarry around in their pocket
that all of a sudden comes rightin front of their face between
the two of us, of a sudden comesright in front of their face
(12:28):
between the two of us, and thenit can go down a bad path
quickly in terms of thataddiction, or preferring that
screen over face-to-faceconversation, or maybe even just
having to wait for a couplehours to talk with us about
something versus sending a textor something.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
I have a good friend who gave his daughter's
smartphones as a Christmas giftand he told me that he gave them
to his daughters in order to beable to stay connected and he
said there was no more isolatingdecision when he did that.
And it's interesting becausehis goal was to be able to
communicate with his daughtersbut it actually pulled them in a
(13:07):
lot of directions that thatkept them from being able to
participate as much in thefamily.
So I think we have tounderstand too.
Phones are different than uh.
When we use the word phone,right, we?
What we're really talking aboutthese days is a computer, right
, and it's a computer that cantake kids anywhere you know, to
(13:27):
any.
So we would never give them ifthey were in the city, we'd
never give them a MetroCard andsay, well, stop off at any stop,
you know.
The fact is is that there's aproblem with trust, in my
opinion, of the content ofwhat's out there.
But also, I think, even if thecontent is perfectly fine, I
think it trains the mind awayfrom relating to actual human
(13:51):
beings, to each other.
It actually distracts the mindfrom what is real.
And developing thesecontemplative patterns,
developing the quiet mind, theability to be still, to actually
be still with your own thoughts.
I think that the screen timeultimately one of the biggest
challenges is.
(14:12):
It's training us and trainingour patterns of thought, and we
don't want to do that.
Children are very fragile.
The plasticity of their mindsare such that if we deliver them
screen media constantly, thenthat will be the way that their
mind will go.
That will be the way their mindprefers.
(14:32):
If you think of a person who'sscrolling through the internet,
they're looking forentertainment, they're looking
for something that's fulfilling,and there's no natural limit to
that.
There's no point in which theyget tired.
Same is true with video games.
Right, when it comes to videogames, you could go play soccer
for two hours, three hours.
(14:53):
You're going to get tired atsome point.
Right, you could play videogames for 10 hours and never be
tired, and then there's reallynever a fulfilling moment when
it comes to gaming.
And so these are things that wehave to realize that we were
made a certain way and we havethese new influences that are
(15:15):
very new, and for thousands ofyears, kids found other ways to
entertain themselves, andusually it involved playing
together, and I think there'sbeen a real drop in that and
also I think there's a real dropin actually family conversation
that comes from screens.
So Just not.
I don't want to sound like aluddite, but I definitely want
(15:38):
to make sure that parentsunderstand that there's a
difference now between the waythat we were raised and we have
to recognize that when we havethat degree of screen time it
doesn't lead to happiness.
Usually.
The way relationships candevelop in a real and a sincere
(16:00):
way, and those relationships,the primary relationships in our
children's lives, are thefamily's relationships.
And so for those of you who say, well, he or she needs to stay
connected and we need to give myson or daughter a smartphone,
I'd say wait as long as you can,because I think that's in
direct competition to theinfluences and the relationships
(16:24):
that we have as a family.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Which makes sense.
Why the title of that talk thatI listened to was Family, the
Most Formative School?
Because you're saying theserelationships that we're
developing with our kids withinthe walls of our own homes are
really the most importantrelationships for them to have
going forward.
(16:47):
And so that intentional timethat we spend with them, which
may only be one or two solidhours, you know, after school
activities and things like thatper day, that we really are
mindful about the way we spendthat time together.
That's right.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
That's right.
And the distracted approachthat we all have a tendency
towards as parents myselfincluded and the distractibility
that our children have as aresult of these screens.
It's a very real challenge tofamily life.
So making sure that that timetogether counts, making sure
that we put away our screens Ithink there's been a great loss
(17:30):
of culture of the home as aresult of this, and it's not to
say we can't recapture that,because the great news is that
parents and children, we needthis.
It's written into our heartsthat we need family.
Parents all fundamentallyunderstand that their children
need them.
From when you first held yourchild in your arms, it was a
(17:52):
great moment of incredible hopeand optimism.
You thought about the rest oftheir life.
You thought about how they werereliant on you from the start.
There's a special understandingthat every parent has that they
are ultimately the primaryshaper, the primary educator of
their children, and so, in orderto do that, we need intentional
(18:16):
time together, undistractedtime, time where there's just
enough to be together to haveconversations.
I guess what I say to everyparent is when do your children
know that they can talk to you?
Is there a moment throughoutthe day, and even if it's right
before bed and I know that'shard, getting children to bed is
not easy but that window oftime when they want to talk,
(18:39):
making sure that we are actuallyavailable.
And, knowing many parents, Iknow one dad who never wanted to
get a dog but agreed to gettingthe dog if each night, the deal
was that one of his children,at least one, would go for a
walk with him to walk the dog aswell.
So there's these routines weneed to build into our lives,
(19:02):
whether it be family dinner,which I know it's a lot to pull
that off but parents are heroicand there's certain patterns
that we just can't give up andcertain patterns and we have to
start small.
It doesn't all have to beperfect.
Let's not make that mistakethat you know, perfect is often
(19:23):
the enemy of the good when itcomes to parenting.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Yes, one of the sweet examples that you gave in that
talk that I remember is that youhad a baby on your hip and you
were making dinner and MaryMargaret was bringing the kids
home from like their bandpractice or whatever, and then
your son had come to you withthis artwork from school and he
wanted to show it to you.
(19:46):
And then at first you were kindof like yeah, yeah, that's good
, that looks good, right,because you have a baby on your
hip and you're trying to cookthe dinner and get everything on
the table for everyone to comehome.
But then what happened for you?
Dinner and get everything onthe table for everyone to come
home, but then what happened foryou Share with us, like what
kind of triggered you to dosomething different, to really
attend to him?
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Well, it's funny, I realized I was giving a talk on
this very topic after I kind ofblew him off.
So I turned off the stove and Ihad a seat and this was my son,
john Paul, who's now older, butbut back when he was little and
you little and kind of had aseat down on the kitchen floor
with him and talked about thispainting that he had done, to
(20:25):
the point where he was no longerinterested in it.
How long can you actually focuson something together?
Sometimes, if we think aboutthe patterns of our own mind, if
we're trying to focus on theactual, to give an extraordinary
amount of attention to thoseunder our roof, our family
(20:47):
members, those we love in a veryspecial way, sometimes the goal
is we think about filling ourchildren up.
What can we give our childrenand we think about, say, for
instance, three glasses of wateron the counter.
If you take the spigot of thesink and you turn it on and you
(21:09):
just try to basically spray themand fill them up, there's a lot
wasted there.
But if you take each one andgive each one its due time, you
know, that's, I think, theparents who are able to do that,
whether it be working with yourchildren while you're doing
some yard work or incorporatingthem into the dinner or even
(21:32):
into efforts on the dishes.
I know many parents who that'sthe time when they can talk with
their children as they're doingsomething.
Often, you know middle schoolboys.
They don't really want to talkmost of the day, but then
there's certain moments whenthey know that they can.
It's good to have a little bitof a distraction while you're
talking, whether it be doing thedishes or shooting hoops,
(21:54):
playing catch, going for a walk.
That's when a lot of our youngadolescents tend to want to talk
, when there's a slightdistraction.
And you have to build thosepatterns.
Before high school, before theworld opens up to such a big
space, before they have theirdriver's license, before they go
off to college.
It happens so fast, they growup so fast.
(22:17):
So how do we make the time foreach other now?
And we have to again realizethat we're not always going to
be successful.
I have a story.
If you want, jordan, I'll tellyou a story about some parents
that I feel like reallyillustrate this point.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yes, please, we'd love to hear about the
successful ones.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Well, you know it's interesting because the story
actually is the way it turns out.
It starts by I'm a young schooladministrator and I noticed
there's this one family and I'mjust so impressed by their
children and I and I had anopportunity to talk to both
parents who came to visit myoffice and and you know it's
(22:57):
good to talk, by the way, toschool administrators and
teachers, not just when there'sproblems, it's good just to
build that relationship.
So I invited them to come inand talk and really I wanted to
learn everything I could fromthem and I said you know it's
working out so well with yourchildren.
Tell me, what would be youradvice that you would give other
parents?
And they looked at each otherand they kind of laughed because
(23:18):
what would be your advice thatyou would give other parents?
And they looked at each otherand they kind of laughed because
you know, of course they knowmore than what's external right
to their family life.
The externals are there'salways more to every story and
every family right, and I'venever met the perfect parents.
But they laughed.
And then mom said you know, Iguess the advice I'd give is you
give is.
(23:38):
Each night I pray for each oneof my children and as part of an
evening prayer that she sort ofexamines her day and I pray for
each one, and they had eightchildren.
So they had a lot of movingparts, a lot of things going on.
And she said and then I askedmyself, did I give that child
(24:00):
what that child needed today?
And often the answer was no.
And you know, the dad says yeah, she's tough on herself
sometimes.
And she said, she went on tosay, well, I asked my oldest
daughter once, you know, whenshe was a little bit older was
there ever a time when youneeded me and I wasn't there for
(24:23):
you?
Or is there ever a time whenmaybe I could have been more
present to you?
And because I was so busy withlots of things that I just
wasn't aware.
And she said, oh no, no, mom.
But then she asked again.
She said, well, really I wantto know.
And the fact is, we all know,if you have an oldest daughter,
(24:44):
they're the ones who really knowwhat's going on in the home.
And so she asked her daughter Ireally want you to be very
sincere.
And she said well, mom, therewere times, probably, when maybe
you were too busy and therewere times when maybe I could
have benefited from talking toyou, and you know I didn't.
(25:07):
I should have maybe initiatedit myself, but I didn't always
do that.
But you know, mom, every one ofus, we always knew it was your
deepest desire to be close to us, and so that's all she needed
to hear.
Because the truth is is thatwhat I realized when I'm
listening to this story is thatparenting is not about perfect
(25:31):
success.
It's about faithfulness to themission.
What our children really needto know is what we you know,
that we're devoted to them.
We don't have to be perfectabout it we won't be but the
idea that faithfulness is moreimportant than success, that
parenting is not something youdo and that all of a sudden you
get the perfect outcome.
(25:51):
You know, human beings, wedon't grow in straight lines.
There's ups, there's downs, butwhen our children know that
they're our priority, that beingclose to them, informing them
and helping give them the thingsthat are eternal are our
priority, that knowledge, that'swhat they really need, right?
(26:12):
So to those of you who areparents out there who constantly
see things through the lens ofwhat you don't have or what you
haven't given your children, orwho can be too tough on
yourselves.
It's important to remember thatthat our children, what they
really remember is what we hopefor them, what we hope to give
them.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
So true.
It reminds me of that, sayingthat when you're with a person,
they may not remember the wordsthat you said to them, but they
will remember the feeling theyhad when they were with you.
And I think that goes a long wayin the way of parenting too.
Is that, you know, if we orientourselves to this mission of
(26:53):
togetherness and we have thisvision for our family, that we
want to be there for each other,we want to have each other's
backs, we want to spend timereally developing this
contemplative spirit and thiscontemplative mind where we can
rest, where we can think deeplyabout things, where we can pick
(27:16):
up a book and enjoy it and letour imagination run wild from
the pages of these books that weread.
If we have that in our mind asthis foundation for family
living, I think kids are soforgiving.
I know that kids are soforgiving for the little things
(27:37):
that we mess up or the timesthat we are impatient with them
when they want to sharesomething with us.
It's that underlying culture ofthe family that you talk about
that lasts.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
It's worth developing long before their senior year
and they're ready to leave thenest.
Is there a time to go back andmake repairs and say, oh, I
missed out on this, I wish wecould have done this different,
and you know I apologize forthat.
Yes, but the earlier you canstart doing this as a family and
(28:15):
saying no to the culture, someof these temptations of screens
and these sort of mindlessthings that put us into
distraction, the better it'sgoing to be for everyone.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
That's right, and you know.
The last thing I'd say aboutthe culture of the family is
that it really starts with therelationship between a husband
and a wife, and that love andthat devotion there, that's what
informs our children more thananything else.
And sometimes, as parents, wethink about what can we give our
children?
And the most important thing wecan give our children is
(28:46):
actually devotion to our spouse.
So sometimes the most importantthing for any child to actually
know is that daddy loves mommyvery much and that mommy loves
daddy very much.
That is the foundation of somuch of what we give our
children, and so I'd say, keepyour eye on that ball.
(29:10):
Even if you can't, even if thechildren are headed in every
different direction and it'ssometimes hard to keep track of
all the details never, ever,lose sight of the importance of
your spouse, because togetheryou can do this, working
together.
That devotion is what's goingto inform your children the most
(29:31):
.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
And I will just underscore that the importance
of elevating your maritalrelationship even above that
relationship with your children,so that your kids see that this
is the unit that started ourfamily.
They loved and cared for us somuch before we were even born
that they were willing to bringus into this world and take on
(29:54):
this whole, you know, kind ofcraziness of family life.
And so for us to continue todemonstrate that we love each
other, that we are for eachother, we're friends in marriage
, even after 20 years or 25years or seven years, is so
important.
As a therapist for 20 years, Iwould say that that relationship
(30:17):
is the most important for thechild's well-being.
If they have doubts about howmom and dad care for each other
or how secure that relationshipis with their parents, if they
have doubts about thatrelationship, their anxiety is
very high.
(30:38):
They live with this undercurrentof anxiety that interrupts
their ability to learn.
It interrupts their ability toform healthy relationships with
other children because of theunsteadiness in the primary
relationship that they came from.
And so if you're listening tothis and you're going, oh, you
(30:58):
know, I don't know that we'regiving them the best example of
a loving marriage.
You have time to change thatthere.
There's time to work on yourrelationship and make it, as
soon as today, a priority inyour home, even in small ways.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
So Andy, I know, you talked about.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
You know, asking that one family like what is it that
you're doing that your kids areturning out in such beautiful
ways?
One of the things I asked afamily when I was young and just
started out having children andwas you know, what are you?
What are you doing to?
You seem so in love.
You have these kids crawlingall over you in mass and but the
two of you sit beside eachother and you have these big
(31:38):
smiles on your face Like how doyou keep the romance in your
relationship when, when you'vegot so much chaos going on with
kids of different ages?
And they just said we are eachother's first priority?
Speaker 2 (31:51):
That's right.
That's right.
And I think that what thatcomes from is, sometimes we
think about our relationships,of those who we love the most in
our family, and we think aboutit from a standpoint well, how
do I be patient with my children?
Or how do I be patient with mypatient with my spouse?
And that can only take us sofar.
I mean, that's what I thinkmost people are asking for is
(32:13):
just, can you give me some morepatience?
But really we need somethingthat takes us 10 steps further
than patience.
It's optimism, it's that senseof hope.
Where's you know, where do weget that optimism and that
source of hope, that hope andthat optimism?
We have to understand that asfamilies, we need each other.
(32:34):
Right, it's written into ourhearts to love each other.
It's not that it's always goingto be perfect and you will have
to start small with any ofthese patterns.
It's okay to start small.
It's okay just to start bytelling your spouse you love
them and giving out more hugs.
Maybe that's it, maybe it's thegoal is to try to smile at your
(32:54):
children more.
Make sure that your spouseknows that you're happy to see
them when you come through thedoor.
But to start small, there'sgreat optimism.
There's great optimism becauseyour family raising your
children, you're not doing italone.
You know you're doing thistogether but there's lots of
grace involved and so trying tobe open to that grace as a
(33:16):
family and that optimism andthat source of hope that's
probably the most importantadvice I could give a parent is
try to be open to the optimismthat we receive from grace.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Optimism.
It's so important for us thatwas just a message at church
this morning actually was justhaving confidence that this
family is going to work out andthese kids are going to be okay
and that our relationship isokay and that we have to just be
persistent in praying for ourkids and our spouse and just
(33:53):
developing these small habits athome that help form them in the
ways that are going to make adifference when they leave the
nest.
Andy, you talked about thiscontemplative mind versus the
unsettled mind, and one of mybiggest anxieties as a parent
(34:14):
when I think about my kidsleaving home which our oldest
will be leaving home in threedays is that he developed this
sort of interior life where hefinds joy in rest and finds joy
in non-screen based activitiesand will, on his own, initiate
(34:35):
opening up a book or taking anap on a Sunday or, you know,
going out and taking a drive tosee something beautiful out in
nature on his own.
And so you know, I love that yougave us some simple strategies
at home for just helping todevelop kids and in that
(34:58):
contemplative way of thinkingabout the world.
One of the things I noticed wasthat you said you know all the
books don't have to be organizedon a couple weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
And we had this huge snow storm.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
We got like 23 inches of snow and the kids went
outside and played in it for awhile.
But they got tired out and theycame in and I bumped into this
poetry book and I just laid onmy back on the carpet on the
floor and opened it up and I wasreading through it and looking
through it and then all of asudden my kids came in the
living room and I said remember,when we used to read from this
(35:52):
a couple of years ago when wewere doing homeschooling, they
were like, oh yeah, I rememberthat, I remember that poem.
Let's open up and do that again.
And so we ended up spendinglike 20 minutes reading poetry
to each other and laughing andand just using different voices
to get into it.
And I thought I'm so glad Ileft the book out that I didn't
(36:16):
worry about tucking it awayperfectly on a shelf somewhere,
but that it caught my eye andthat we were in a position where
we were able to just welcomethat into our schedule and enjoy
it.
But it's just those littlethings, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
That's right, those little moments, and you know
it's interesting.
It reminds me of a story mywife, mary Margaret, told me the
other day she had a younger momover just to talk about, you
know, some of the patterns ofmotherhood, some of the patterns
of motherhood, and the youngermother came over and we had just
had, everybody had come homeand visited.
(36:53):
Some of our children are older,some are in college, some are
we go all the way down to agenine and she looked around the
house and the mom said thank youfor not cleaning up your home
for me.
She actually she came in cause.
She has lots of children andshe said I needed to see that.
You know, sometimes thingsaren't in perfect order and but
(37:16):
you know, what really matters isthat we're giving a short
amount of attention to eachother, not just to the things in
our lives.
So I would make sure that youknow that example that I want to
highlight to you, jordan, thatthat example that you just
described of reading poetry withyour children, that doesn't
happen if we have screensinvolved, that that's really at
(37:40):
that moment.
That moment is easilyinterrupted by screens, by just
one of your family members on ascreen.
So I think it's good to be kindof disciplined about their use,
the intentional use of screens.
That would be just a point thatwe've hear it so much and it's
gotten to the point where it'skind of a widely accepted
(38:01):
reality.
But as families it's so hard tochange some of these patterns.
But making time for each other,those contemplative patterns
are going to develop together.
They're actually going todevelop.
I think the easiest startingpoint would be a hike.
While we still have some goodweather here, a hike would be a
(38:21):
great thing to read together.
It's a great idea.
Music, please involve music,beautiful music, in your
children's lives.
Help them to really hear things.
And you know, it's great whenthey actually can develop an
interest in their own music,when they actually develop an
interest in actually playing aninstrument, their own music,
when they actually develop aninterest in actually playing an
instrument.
That's a participation increating something beautiful.
(38:43):
Art, art's another one, youknow, making time to go to an
art gallery or to actually toappreciate art in some form or
create art.
There are elements of our mindthat we just don't seem to use
enough and we need to do thattogether, as a family, to
develop the quiet patterns, thecontemplative patterns that
might lead our children to havethat peace that every child
(39:06):
deserves to have, thatopportunity to pray that every
child needs to be able to have.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Yes, thank you, and I was just thinking of different
rooms in the house and areas ofthe home that you could sort of
convert in really small, simpleways in order to make those
activities more accessible toyour kids versus their screens.
(39:36):
If you can start by limitingscreen time and saying, well, we
put all screens away when it'stime for dinner for the whole
rest of the night, and then youhave a table that's out maybe in
your living room somewhereclose to the kitchen and you
have a puzzle on the table thatis something front and center
that they can see.
That is a different choice,right?
(39:58):
And so I know personally as amom, anybody that's visited my
house in the past probably fiveyears is probably gone.
This is a little uncomfortablebecause things are just, you
know, neat and tidy and in theirspot and it does like does
anyone really live here?
But what I'm getting used to islike you know what, there's
(40:18):
beautiful ways of stillmaintaining a nice home and a
comfortable home, but also thatis functional for your kids to
participate in the arts.
You can do a bucket of coloredpencils with butcher paper out
on a table and that just beingout and available for them is
(40:41):
such a good choice.
Even middle schoolers andteenagers love to doodle and
draw, and for them to havesomething immediately available
in their main space of living issuch a better option than going
down the rabbit hole of a phoneor a tablet or a computer
(41:01):
screen.
And, andy, you talked about howthe satisfaction of screens is
just really so minimal comparedto the satisfaction of reading
or observing something outsidein nature.
Can you talk a little bit moreabout that?
(41:22):
The difference between kind ofhow the brain, you know,
receives those two differentmediums.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Sure.
Well, for starters, I think ifyou were to just compare the two
and I mentioned a black andwhite, non-moving text right in
a screen you're going to learnto.
The screen is effortless andyou can look at your children's
eyes when they're looking at aTV you're going to learn to.
The screen is effortless andyou can look at your children's
eyes when they're looking at aTV or a screen or a phone and
you see their eyes are not quitefully alive.
(41:50):
There's something there that'sin them because it's all being
presented to them.
But compare that to having tocreate something in their mind.
That's a more active endeavorto create the storyline.
As you're reading a poem,thinking about what the author
is saying, that's a pattern andI'd love to see.
(42:13):
One of the healthiest things inlittle children is to see
imaginative play games when theyhave their stuffed animals or
their dolls and they've actuallydeveloped their own
personalities and their ownnames.
And we've seen this in a lot ofchildren and that's a
construction, that's a buildingas opposed to everything already
(42:35):
done on the screen for them.
So one is more engaging of theactual will.
Even playing outside requires awill.
I mean it requires exercise, isso healthy for children being
outside, going for a hike.
They're taking things in andthey're thinking about it.
They're being trained to reallyto see, and natural beauty is
(42:57):
an easy one.
When we turn over our childrento screens, it trains them to
see nothing other than what'sbeing presented to them.
So we're really turning ourparenting over to the screen.
You know the phones of let'scall it truth.
(43:23):
You know about the source ofwhat matters in the world, and I
don't think we want to do that,you know, for our children.
We want to be the primarysource of truth for them.
They need that, they need thatperspective.
So the relationships, too, thatwe offer them through
experiencing these contemplativepatterns together I think it's
(43:46):
what families need more thananything else.
And it might even not be ascreen.
It might be the fact that wehave every child playing on two
soccer teams, and then itbecomes a logistical challenge
of just getting people indifferent directions.
It becomes a logisticalchallenge of just getting people
in different directions.
It might be that we don't havea time each weekend to be
together.
I mean, if you look at eachweekend, that's time where there
(44:09):
should be something reserved,and it doesn't have to be an
extraordinary activity.
I think that's a mistake lotsof parents make.
It just has to be anextraordinary level of attention
to each other, has to be anextraordinary level of attention
to each other.
So that time together you knowundistracted time together as a
(44:30):
family.
If you look at throughouthistory, I think we're at a
minimum right now when we talkabout undistracted time together
and we need to actively takesteps every family to actually
improve in this area, and you dothat with the help and support
of your spouse.
So maybe, if you're listeningto this and your husband is not,
or you're listening to this andyour wife is not, it would be a
great thing to have them listento some of these themes.
(44:51):
That's one of the reasons why Iknow, jordan, you do all this
hard work is to have couplesbenefit, parents benefit from
this and it's important that youknow that maybe a podcast like
this, that they actually canshare it together.
The value of that is huge to beon the same page Because, let's
(45:12):
face it, sometimes it's justhard to make changes in our
family's patterns, but as parentleaders, we can do that
patterns.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
But as parent leaders we can do that.
Yes, thank you for encouragingthat the sharing of these
podcast episodes with yourspouse, maybe even sharing the
earbuds as you go on a walk atnight.
You have one, I have the other.
We put the podcast episode on,we listen to it and then have a
conversation about it,incorporating it into something
we're already doing, so that wecan just make it a little bit
easier to doing, so that we canjust make it a little bit easier
to have some of theseconversations and make some of
(45:45):
these changes.
Well, andy, I certainlyappreciate you coming on the
show.
It's so wonderful to hear fromsomeone who has such extensive
experience working with familiesand middle school boys and
understanding what works best,because it gets overwhelming
(46:06):
sometimes as parents out here inthis culture and you can feel
like you're really swimmingupstream and you're saying no to
a lot of the things that otherparents are saying yes to and
you could feel that you'redepriving your child of
something by not giving them acell phone or a screen that our
culture offers and to really dothe meaningful work to form our
(46:28):
kids in the home in even justsmall ways and small changes
that are reasonable on aday-to-day basis.
(46:51):
So thank you, andy, for beinghere with us.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
Well, thank you, Jordan.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
Yes, we hope you'll share this episode with people
in your corner and, andy, wherecould they find more of this
content and your podcasts andtalks?
Is that the Heights Forumpodcast?
Speaker 2 (47:10):
Yes, so heightsforumorg is actually a
site.
Our school has over 400podcasts, articles, parent
lectures available for everyonewho's interested, every parent
out there or educator.
We put these online for freeand it's an opportunity just to
share ideas about parenting andthe culture of the home and the
(47:32):
culture of schools.
So feel free to join us anytimeon the Heights Forum dot org.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
Heights Forum dot org .
And Andy, if there are parentsthat are going wait, my kid's
school needs to hear from Andy.
Are you traveling and do you dopresentations or workshops for
schools?
Is that something that a schoolcould reach out and ask for you
to come and give a talk there?
Speaker 2 (47:54):
Yes, I'm happy to do that, thank you.
And I also want want to saypartner with your schools, to be
as intentional as possible.
Some of the things we talkedabout are it's excellent when
you can have the culture of yourhome confirmed by the culture
of your school.
So your teachers and yourchildren's lives.
(48:14):
Talk to them about some of thepatterns that you're hoping to
develop in your children.
You know, don't be shy abouttalking to them about some of
the aspirations you have fortheir growth and development and
what you're trying to do athome, because you'll find that
educators, by and large, theygot into education in order to
help you raise your children,and so that's the ideal.
So don't be shy about talkingto the educators in your
(48:37):
children's life about some ofthese same things we discussed
today.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
Wonderful advice.
If they could have the samesort of foundation at school as
they do at home, what a blessingthat would be.
I know you are serving that upat the Heights there in Maryland
.
So keep up the great work, andy, and thanks again for joining
us.
And, guys, I'll catch you onanother episode of the Families
of Character show real soon.
(49:03):
Take care, thank you, george.
Hey, welcome back parents.
I'm Jordan Langdon, your hostfor the show, and I just wanna
tell you that if you are kind ofwondering, like, what are the
most critical things I need tobe doing as a parent in order to
prepare my kids to leave thenest, to take their faith with
(00:20):
them, to be able to really fullyenjoy this life that they were
given, you're going to want totune into this episode.
On today's show we have AndyReed with us from the Heights
School.
Andy has been the head of themiddle school since 2000,.
So he has been working closelywith middle school boys and
(00:44):
their families for over 20 years.
Andy is a graduate fromGeorgetown University, where he
majored in philosophy and thepre-medical sciences.
He also played on the varsitybaseball team for Georgetown and
then Andy completed hisgraduate work at John Hopkins
University and holds a master'sin school administration.
(01:07):
Andy also serves on the boardat Families of Character, so I
have been personally blessed byhis wisdom, his advice and
definitely his support indeveloping content and serving
parents in a way that they canreally raise kids of great
character.
So Andy has written numerousarticles and offers videos and
(01:31):
podcasts, especially on topicsat the intersection of parenting
and education.
Andy and his wife Mary Margarethave six children two sons and
four daughters.
So welcome to the show, andyReid.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Thank you, jordan.
I want to start by just sayinghow grateful I am to be on the
show, but also to say thank youto you, jordan, because of all
the inspiring work you do forfamilies of character and all
the parents who tune in, just asa board member who sees the
behind the scenes.
Your work is heroic and I justwant to start by thanking you,
jordan.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Oh, thank you.
Thank you so much.
You do know the inner workingsof our organization.
You get the behind the scenes aview of things.
So I know that you know whatgoes into this and it's a joy.
It's my passion, for sure.
So, andy, I listened to yourtalk titled Family.
Sure so, andy, I listened toyour talk titled Family the Most
(02:27):
Formative School and was veryblessed by the content in that
talk.
So you are exposed to parentsand children every day, have
been over 20 years and have yourown family experience, so tell
us a little bit about what yousee that is happening with
families and what you've noticedthat parents really need these
(02:48):
days.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Well, thanks, jordan.
I am fortunate because I get tohave conversations with
literally hundreds of parentsand watch thousands of students
grow up, and I work in a schoolwhere there's really so many
thoughtful parents, parents whoare very intentional about the
way they're raising theirchildren.
So I'm just a beneficiary ofall these conversations and
(03:11):
seeing what's working and what'snot, and so that's what I'll
try to relate today just someperspectives on some of the
areas that I think parents areraising children who are
thriving or focusing, that Ithink parents are raising
children who are thriving orfocusing.
So the first is to understandthat every home has a culture,
that there's a culture at everyhome and as parents, we have to
(03:31):
be the leaders, we have to shapeit, we have to accompany our
children through their growthperiods.
In particular, I work withmiddle school students.
I work at a middle school forboys, and that can be a
challenging window of growth formany parents.
So I spend a lot of my timeencouraging parents and
listening to them, telling themthat lots of things are normal,
right, but the fact is is thatthe ones who are intentional
(03:56):
about parenting that spend timetalking to their spouse about
the ways they'd like to raisetheir children, especially early
on.
There's an opportunity there todo things together, and that
culture of the home requires acertain amount of extra effort,
and I think that comes throughin just the devotion that the
parents show, who are trying tobuild that sense of culture.
(04:19):
The culture is sort of like theair they breathe.
It's what you expect of them,but also what you hold to be
true, what you hold to be dear,and you have to hold each other
to be dear.
That time together when they'reyoung is a special window.
And teaching your children thatyou want them to grow, you want
(04:40):
them to remain close, that asyou work together as a mom and
dad, sometimes you have to beable to say no to some things.
And the interesting fact is, Ithink, other than telling your
kids I love you, sometimes youdo have to tell them no.
That might be the next mostimportant word, because you have
to be interested in theirlong-term happiness.
(05:01):
What do I mean by that?
Well, for starters, I'll justgive an example.
If you look at your calendar afamily calendar and ask yourself
how many activities are justgoing to be individual-based
activities and how manyactivities are going to be
actual family activities.
I think we have to create abalance there.
We have to create alsoopportunities for our children
(05:22):
to do things that are reallythoughtful at home, within the
family unit, whether it bethings like developing music or
playing sports together as afamily, going on hikes, getting
them out in nature.
These are so enriching, and toexperience things together as a
family is a real goal, whetherit be.
(05:42):
I think it starts early startswith reading to your children.
That's the first step.
I mean.
I think every family, in orderto have a culture of a home, has
to have a culture of reading inthe home, and that starts
pretty young.
There should be books.
It's okay if the books aren'tall perfectly organized, but
having them all around the home,that's an important thing.
(06:04):
And of course we can talk for awhile about screen time, but
screen time is really so oftenit's the opposite of
connectivity, and so maybe we'llget to that later in the talk.
But and why it's important toavoid too much screen time.
But for now I just wanted tosay the students who are
thriving that I work with andthe parents who seem to be
(06:27):
happiest are the ones who aregrowing in virtue, and that
takes time and you grow invirtue as a result of formation,
and the formation is it's allinterpersonal, it's all
relational, and so that's soimportant to have the right
amount of time together.
So for those of you who havethis instinct of we need to
(06:48):
spend more time together, Ithink it's good to listen to
that instinct.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
Yes, thank you for bringing that up, andy.
Just the idea that the way wegrow in virtue is through our
relationships.
Relationships, right, it's notthrough the to-dos or the check
boxes or how well the house isordered, but it's how we work
together as a unified team inorder to move the family forward
, in order to enjoy those thingsthat you were talking about,
(07:14):
like reading and some time to dothings in nature, like hiking
and that sort of thing that.
These are the things thatyou're noticing that students
who are thriving are coming fromfamilies where they really
prioritize these types ofactivities in the home and the
(07:35):
relationships become number one.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Right, that's right.
And I think that, in order tospend time in intentional ways
and give extraordinary amount ofattention to each other,
there's a tendency I think lotsof parents have these days is to
sort of take the freneticapproach how do I juggle
everything, how do I make it allhappen?
(07:59):
And that sort of promotes intheir own children an unsettled
mind.
You know the idea that it's howdo I get it all done?
And at the end of the day, asuccessful day is I checked
every box.
And that leads to kind of, youknow, having five short thoughts
at once instead of longthoughts.
I mean this unsettled mind canregularly wear itself out and
(08:23):
parents, you know, have todevelop in their own because
they can only give what theythemselves have.
They need to develop the quietmind, and I'll talk a little bit
about what I describe as thequiet mind, but it's the same
mind you're going to pray with.
But there's lots of foundationalhabits that families can
develop together and thesehabits are more contemplative in
(08:45):
nature.
So the contemplative mind isnurtured by, like we mentioned,
opportunities to be out innature.
That's really easy, that'ssomething that every human being
needs, you know, for ourchildren to be out in nature.
It teaches them to see, toappreciate natural beauty.
It teaches them nature.
(09:06):
It teaches them to see, toappreciate natural beauty.
It teaches them to see that theworld was made good, right.
It's a great confirmation ofall the goodness in the world.
You know, to go on a hike withchildren of any age and have
them turn over a leaf and lookat the veins, or pick up an
acorn and ask why is there a capthere?
Or just appreciate some of thisnatural beauty, of all the
leaves that are changing herewhere we are, that's an
(09:29):
opportunity, and so nature isone of the contemplative
patterns that I think is reallyvery easy.
You know, music, beautiful musicis another one making time for
beautiful music, and the nextstep to that is actually having
children develop an interest inmusical instruments and, as
parents, taking a real interestin their instruments and their
(09:51):
development as musicians.
I think music is part of themoral formation of our children
because naturally there's abeauty and there's a precision
to it, there's an order to itand there's an attentiveness,
and I think it's one of thegreat gifts of being a human
being is if you can appreciatebeautiful music together.
It's so accessible these days,especially reading.
(10:14):
We mentioned the importance ofreading.
This is also a habit thatdevelops a quiet mind.
You know, the opposite of thesekind of patterns is the mind
that goes to screens and that'sthe mind of having a hard time
with focus.
You know, if you compare ascreen to a black and white text
(10:36):
, they're just completelydifferent.
Things will learn to prefer allthe imagery being delivered
directly to it as opposed toactually actively engaging the
mind to develop the imagery,like a good story or a good poem
might.
So I know it may sound a littleold-fashioned, but these are
the things that we were made forand to experience them together
(11:00):
.
It actually helps develop thequiet mind and I believe that
it's our job as parents to teachour children how to pray.
The fact is is that prayer ishard.
Prayer is sometimes hard forkids.
Settling down and allowingthemselves to actually pray
requires practice at othercontemplative things.
(11:22):
So it's a bit like thefoundation, giving them this
quiet mind, the foundation, andthat means we may have to remove
some distractions from theirlives, and screens are
definitely the biggestdistracting, biggest isolating
element in children's livesthese days.
Speaker 1 (11:40):
Thank you for saying that about them being isolating,
because I think so often whenwe have middle schoolers who are
turning 12, 13, 14, we think,ok, well, they're going to go
off and they're going to be atthese schools or we're going to
be away from them and we getworried about them.
So we ought to give them aphone, because we want to be
connected to them, we want themto be able to connect with us,
(12:04):
connected to them, we want themto be able to connect with us.
And then it turns out that theyget these phones and then we
notice that it seems that we arelosing the relationship with
our child, to this relationshipwith this rectangle.
That's right this thing theycarry around in their pocket
that all of a sudden comes rightin front of their face between
the two of us, of a sudden comesright in front of their face
(12:28):
between the two of us, and thenit can go down a bad path
quickly in terms of thataddiction, or preferring that
screen over face-to-faceconversation, or maybe even just
having to wait for a couplehours to talk with us about
something versus sending a textor something.
Speaker 2 (12:44):
I have a good friend who gave his daughter's
smartphones as a Christmas giftand he told me that he gave them
to his daughters in order to beable to stay connected and he
said there was no more isolatingdecision when he did that.
And it's interesting becausehis goal was to be able to
communicate with his daughtersbut it actually pulled them in a
(13:07):
lot of directions that thatkept them from being able to
participate as much in thefamily.
So I think we have tounderstand too.
Phones are different than uh.
When we use the word phone,right, we?
What we're really talking aboutthese days is a computer, right
, and it's a computer that cantake kids anywhere you know, to
(13:27):
any.
So we would never give them ifthey were in the city, we'd
never give them a MetroCard andsay, well, stop off at any stop,
you know.
The fact is is that there's aproblem with trust, in my
opinion, of the content ofwhat's out there.
But also, I think, even if thecontent is perfectly fine, I
think it trains the mind awayfrom relating to actual human
(13:51):
beings, to each other.
It actually distracts the mindfrom what is real.
And developing thesecontemplative patterns,
developing the quiet mind, theability to be still, to actually
be still with your own thoughts.
I think that the screen timeultimately one of the biggest
challenges is.
(14:12):
It's training us and trainingour patterns of thought, and we
don't want to do that.
Children are very fragile.
The plasticity of their mindsare such that if we deliver them
screen media constantly, thenthat will be the way that their
mind will go.
That will be the way their mindprefers.
(14:32):
If you think of a person who'sscrolling through the internet,
they're looking forentertainment, they're looking
for something that's fulfilling,and there's no natural limit to
that.
There's no point in which theyget tired.
Same is true with video games.
Right, when it comes to videogames, you could go play soccer
for two hours, three hours.
(14:53):
You're going to get tired atsome point.
Right, you could play videogames for 10 hours and never be
tired, and then there's reallynever a fulfilling moment when
it comes to gaming.
And so these are things that wehave to realize that we were
made a certain way and we havethese new influences that are
(15:15):
very new, and for thousands ofyears, kids found other ways to
entertain themselves, andusually it involved playing
together, and I think there'sbeen a real drop in that and
also I think there's a real dropin actually family conversation
that comes from screens.
So Just not.
I don't want to sound like aluddite, but I definitely want
(15:38):
to make sure that parentsunderstand that there's a
difference now between the waythat we were raised and we have
to recognize that when we havethat degree of screen time it
doesn't lead to happiness.
Usually.
The way relationships candevelop in a real and a sincere
(16:00):
way, and those relationships,the primary relationships in our
children's lives, are thefamily's relationships.
And so for those of you who say, well, he or she needs to stay
connected and we need to give myson or daughter a smartphone,
I'd say wait as long as you can,because I think that's in
direct competition to theinfluences and the relationships
(16:24):
that we have as a family.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Which makes sense.
Why the title of that talk thatI listened to was Family, the
Most Formative School?
Because you're saying theserelationships that we're
developing with our kids withinthe walls of our own homes are
really the most importantrelationships for them to have
going forward.
(16:47):
And so that intentional timethat we spend with them, which
may only be one or two solidhours, you know, after school
activities and things like thatper day, that we really are
mindful about the way we spendthat time together.
That's right.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
That's right.
And the distracted approachthat we all have a tendency
towards as parents myselfincluded and the distractibility
that our children have as aresult of these screens.
It's a very real challenge tofamily life.
So making sure that that timetogether counts, making sure
that we put away our screens Ithink there's been a great loss
(17:30):
of culture of the home as aresult of this, and it's not to
say we can't recapture that,because the great news is that
parents and children, we needthis.
It's written into our heartsthat we need family.
Parents all fundamentallyunderstand that their children
need them.
From when you first held yourchild in your arms, it was a
(17:52):
great moment of incredible hopeand optimism.
You thought about the rest oftheir life.
You thought about how they werereliant on you from the start.
There's a special understandingthat every parent has that they
are ultimately the primaryshaper, the primary educator of
their children, and so, in orderto do that, we need intentional
(18:16):
time together, undistractedtime, time where there's just
enough to be together to haveconversations.
I guess what I say to everyparent is when do your children
know that they can talk to you?
Is there a moment throughoutthe day, and even if it's right
before bed and I know that'shard, getting children to bed is
not easy but that window oftime when they want to talk,
(18:39):
making sure that we are actuallyavailable.
And, knowing many parents, Iknow one dad who never wanted to
get a dog but agreed to gettingthe dog if each night, the deal
was that one of his children,at least one, would go for a
walk with him to walk the dog aswell.
So there's these routines weneed to build into our lives,
(19:02):
whether it be family dinner,which I know it's a lot to pull
that off but parents are heroicand there's certain patterns
that we just can't give up andcertain patterns and we have to
start small.
It doesn't all have to beperfect.
Let's not make that mistakethat you know, perfect is often
(19:23):
the enemy of the good when itcomes to parenting.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
Yes, one of the sweet examples that you gave in that
talk that I remember is that youhad a baby on your hip and you
were making dinner and MaryMargaret was bringing the kids
home from like their bandpractice or whatever, and then
your son had come to you withthis artwork from school and he
wanted to show it to you.
(19:46):
And then at first you were kindof like yeah, yeah, that's good
, that looks good, right,because you have a baby on your
hip and you're trying to cookthe dinner and get everything on
the table for everyone to comehome.
But then what happened for you?
Dinner and get everything onthe table for everyone to come
home, but then what happened foryou Share with us, like what
kind of triggered you to dosomething different, to really
attend to him?
Speaker 2 (20:04):
Well, it's funny, I realized I was giving a talk on
this very topic after I kind ofblew him off.
So I turned off the stove and Ihad a seat and this was my son,
john Paul, who's now older, butbut back when he was little and
you little and kind of had aseat down on the kitchen floor
with him and talked about thispainting that he had done, to
(20:25):
the point where he was no longerinterested in it.
How long can you actually focuson something together?
Sometimes, if we think aboutthe patterns of our own mind, if
we're trying to focus on theactual, to give an extraordinary
amount of attention to thoseunder our roof, our family
(20:47):
members, those we love in a veryspecial way, sometimes the goal
is we think about filling ourchildren up.
What can we give our childrenand we think about, say, for
instance, three glasses of wateron the counter.
If you take the spigot of thesink and you turn it on and you
(21:09):
just try to basically spray themand fill them up, there's a lot
wasted there.
But if you take each one andgive each one its due time, you
know, that's, I think, theparents who are able to do that,
whether it be working with yourchildren while you're doing
some yard work or incorporatingthem into the dinner or even
(21:32):
into efforts on the dishes.
I know many parents who that'sthe time when they can talk with
their children as they're doingsomething.
Often, you know middle schoolboys.
They don't really want to talkmost of the day, but then
there's certain moments whenthey know that they can.
It's good to have a little bitof a distraction while you're
talking, whether it be doing thedishes or shooting hoops,
(21:54):
playing catch, going for a walk.
That's when a lot of our youngadolescents tend to want to talk
, when there's a slightdistraction.
And you have to build thosepatterns.
Before high school, before theworld opens up to such a big
space, before they have theirdriver's license, before they go
off to college.
It happens so fast, they growup so fast.
(22:17):
So how do we make the time foreach other now?
And we have to again realizethat we're not always going to
be successful.
I have a story.
If you want, jordan, I'll tellyou a story about some parents
that I feel like reallyillustrate this point.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yes, please, we'd love to hear about the
successful ones.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
Well, you know it's interesting because the story
actually is the way it turns out.
It starts by I'm a young schooladministrator and I noticed
there's this one family and I'mjust so impressed by their
children and I and I had anopportunity to talk to both
parents who came to visit myoffice and and you know it's
(22:57):
good to talk, by the way, toschool administrators and
teachers, not just when there'sproblems, it's good just to
build that relationship.
So I invited them to come inand talk and really I wanted to
learn everything I could fromthem and I said you know it's
working out so well with yourchildren.
Tell me, what would be youradvice that you would give other
parents?
And they looked at each otherand they kind of laughed because
(23:18):
what would be your advice thatyou would give other parents?
And they looked at each otherand they kind of laughed because
you know, of course they knowmore than what's external right
to their family life.
The externals are there'salways more to every story and
every family right, and I'venever met the perfect parents.
But they laughed.
And then mom said you know, Iguess the advice I'd give is you
give is.
(23:38):
Each night I pray for each oneof my children and as part of an
evening prayer that she sort ofexamines her day and I pray for
each one, and they had eightchildren.
So they had a lot of movingparts, a lot of things going on.
And she said and then I askedmyself, did I give that child
(24:00):
what that child needed today?
And often the answer was no.
And you know, the dad says yeah, she's tough on herself
sometimes.
And she said, she went on tosay, well, I asked my oldest
daughter once, you know, whenshe was a little bit older was
there ever a time when youneeded me and I wasn't there for
(24:23):
you?
Or is there ever a time whenmaybe I could have been more
present to you?
And because I was so busy withlots of things that I just
wasn't aware.
And she said, oh no, no, mom.
But then she asked again.
She said, well, really I wantto know.
And the fact is, we all know,if you have an oldest daughter,
(24:44):
they're the ones who really knowwhat's going on in the home.
And so she asked her daughter Ireally want you to be very
sincere.
And she said well, mom, therewere times, probably, when maybe
you were too busy and therewere times when maybe I could
have benefited from talking toyou, and you know I didn't.
(25:07):
I should have maybe initiatedit myself, but I didn't always
do that.
But you know, mom, every one ofus, we always knew it was your
deepest desire to be close to us, and so that's all she needed
to hear.
Because the truth is is thatwhat I realized when I'm
listening to this story is thatparenting is not about perfect
(25:31):
success.
It's about faithfulness to themission.
What our children really needto know is what we you know,
that we're devoted to them.
We don't have to be perfectabout it we won't be but the
idea that faithfulness is moreimportant than success, that
parenting is not something youdo and that all of a sudden you
get the perfect outcome.
(25:51):
You know, human beings, wedon't grow in straight lines.
There's ups, there's downs, butwhen our children know that
they're our priority, that beingclose to them, informing them
and helping give them the thingsthat are eternal are our
priority, that knowledge, that'swhat they really need, right?
(26:12):
So to those of you who areparents out there who constantly
see things through the lens ofwhat you don't have or what you
haven't given your children, orwho can be too tough on
yourselves.
It's important to remember thatthat our children, what they
really remember is what we hopefor them, what we hope to give
them.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
So true.
It reminds me of that, sayingthat when you're with a person,
they may not remember the wordsthat you said to them, but they
will remember the feeling theyhad when they were with you.
And I think that goes a long wayin the way of parenting too.
Is that, you know, if we orientourselves to this mission of
(26:53):
togetherness and we have thisvision for our family, that we
want to be there for each other,we want to have each other's
backs, we want to spend timereally developing this
contemplative spirit and thiscontemplative mind where we can
rest, where we can think deeplyabout things, where we can pick
(27:16):
up a book and enjoy it and letour imagination run wild from
the pages of these books that weread.
If we have that in our mind asthis foundation for family
living, I think kids are soforgiving.
I know that kids are soforgiving for the little things
(27:37):
that we mess up or the timesthat we are impatient with them
when they want to sharesomething with us.
It's that underlying culture ofthe family that you talk about
that lasts.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (27:53):
It's worth developing long before their senior year
and they're ready to leave thenest.
Is there a time to go back andmake repairs and say, oh, I
missed out on this, I wish wecould have done this different,
and you know I apologize forthat.
Yes, but the earlier you canstart doing this as a family and
(28:15):
saying no to the culture, someof these temptations of screens
and these sort of mindlessthings that put us into
distraction, the better it'sgoing to be for everyone.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
That's right, and you know.
The last thing I'd say aboutthe culture of the family is
that it really starts with therelationship between a husband
and a wife, and that love andthat devotion there, that's what
informs our children more thananything else.
And sometimes, as parents, wethink about what can we give our
children?
And the most important thing wecan give our children is
(28:46):
actually devotion to our spouse.
So sometimes the most importantthing for any child to actually
know is that daddy loves mommyvery much and that mommy loves
daddy very much.
That is the foundation of somuch of what we give our
children, and so I'd say, keepyour eye on that ball.
(29:10):
Even if you can't, even if thechildren are headed in every
different direction and it'ssometimes hard to keep track of
all the details never, ever,lose sight of the importance of
your spouse, because togetheryou can do this, working
together.
That devotion is what's goingto inform your children the most
(29:31):
.
Speaker 1 (29:33):
And I will just underscore that the importance
of elevating your maritalrelationship even above that
relationship with your children,so that your kids see that this
is the unit that started ourfamily.
They loved and cared for us somuch before we were even born
that they were willing to bringus into this world and take on
(29:54):
this whole, you know, kind ofcraziness of family life.
And so for us to continue todemonstrate that we love each
other, that we are for eachother, we're friends in marriage
, even after 20 years or 25years or seven years, is so
important.
As a therapist for 20 years, Iwould say that that relationship
(30:17):
is the most important for thechild's well-being.
If they have doubts about howmom and dad care for each other
or how secure that relationshipis with their parents, if they
have doubts about thatrelationship, their anxiety is
very high.
(30:38):
They live with this undercurrentof anxiety that interrupts
their ability to learn.
It interrupts their ability toform healthy relationships with
other children because of theunsteadiness in the primary
relationship that they came from.
And so if you're listening tothis and you're going, oh, you
(30:58):
know, I don't know that we'regiving them the best example of
a loving marriage.
You have time to change thatthere.
There's time to work on yourrelationship and make it, as
soon as today, a priority inyour home, even in small ways.
Speaker 2 (31:14):
So Andy, I know, you talked about.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
You know, asking that one family like what is it that
you're doing that your kids areturning out in such beautiful
ways?
One of the things I asked afamily when I was young and just
started out having children andwas you know, what are you?
What are you doing to?
You seem so in love.
You have these kids crawlingall over you in mass and but the
two of you sit beside eachother and you have these big
(31:38):
smiles on your face Like how doyou keep the romance in your
relationship when, when you'vegot so much chaos going on with
kids of different ages?
And they just said we are eachother's first priority?
Speaker 2 (31:51):
That's right.
That's right.
And I think that what thatcomes from is, sometimes we
think about our relationships,of those who we love the most in
our family, and we think aboutit from a standpoint well, how
do I be patient with my children?
Or how do I be patient with mypatient with my spouse?
And that can only take us sofar.
I mean, that's what I thinkmost people are asking for is
(32:13):
just, can you give me some morepatience?
But really we need somethingthat takes us 10 steps further
than patience.
It's optimism, it's that senseof hope.
Where's you know, where do weget that optimism and that
source of hope, that hope andthat optimism?
We have to understand that asfamilies, we need each other.
(32:34):
Right, it's written into ourhearts to love each other.
It's not that it's always goingto be perfect and you will have
to start small with any ofthese patterns.
It's okay to start small.
It's okay just to start bytelling your spouse you love
them and giving out more hugs.
Maybe that's it, maybe it's thegoal is to try to smile at your
(32:54):
children more.
Make sure that your spouseknows that you're happy to see
them when you come through thedoor.
But to start small, there'sgreat optimism.
There's great optimism becauseyour family raising your
children, you're not doing italone.
You know you're doing thistogether but there's lots of
grace involved and so trying tobe open to that grace as a
(33:16):
family and that optimism andthat source of hope that's
probably the most importantadvice I could give a parent is
try to be open to the optimismthat we receive from grace.
Speaker 1 (33:31):
Optimism.
It's so important for us thatwas just a message at church
this morning actually was justhaving confidence that this
family is going to work out andthese kids are going to be okay
and that our relationship isokay and that we have to just be
persistent in praying for ourkids and our spouse and just
(33:53):
developing these small habits athome that help form them in the
ways that are going to make adifference when they leave the
nest.
Andy, you talked about thiscontemplative mind versus the
unsettled mind, and one of mybiggest anxieties as a parent
(34:14):
when I think about my kidsleaving home which our oldest
will be leaving home in threedays is that he developed this
sort of interior life where hefinds joy in rest and finds joy
in non-screen based activitiesand will, on his own, initiate
(34:35):
opening up a book or taking anap on a Sunday or, you know,
going out and taking a drive tosee something beautiful out in
nature on his own.
And so you know, I love that yougave us some simple strategies
at home for just helping todevelop kids and in that
(34:58):
contemplative way of thinkingabout the world.
One of the things I noticed wasthat you said you know all the
books don't have to be organizedon a couple weeks ago.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
And we had this huge snow storm.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
We got like 23 inches of snow and the kids went
outside and played in it for awhile.
But they got tired out and theycame in and I bumped into this
poetry book and I just laid onmy back on the carpet on the
floor and opened it up and I wasreading through it and looking
through it and then all of asudden my kids came in the
living room and I said remember,when we used to read from this
(35:52):
a couple of years ago when wewere doing homeschooling, they
were like, oh yeah, I rememberthat, I remember that poem.
Let's open up and do that again.
And so we ended up spendinglike 20 minutes reading poetry
to each other and laughing andand just using different voices
to get into it.
And I thought I'm so glad Ileft the book out that I didn't
(36:16):
worry about tucking it awayperfectly on a shelf somewhere,
but that it caught my eye andthat we were in a position where
we were able to just welcomethat into our schedule and enjoy
it.
But it's just those littlethings, you know.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
That's right, those little moments, and you know
it's interesting.
It reminds me of a story mywife, mary Margaret, told me the
other day she had a younger momover just to talk about, you
know, some of the patterns ofmotherhood, some of the patterns
of motherhood, and the youngermother came over and we had just
had, everybody had come homeand visited.
(36:53):
Some of our children are older,some are in college, some are
we go all the way down to agenine and she looked around the
house and the mom said thank youfor not cleaning up your home
for me.
She actually she came in cause.
She has lots of children andshe said I needed to see that.
You know, sometimes thingsaren't in perfect order and but
(37:16):
you know, what really matters isthat we're giving a short
amount of attention to eachother, not just to the things in
our lives.
So I would make sure that youknow that example that I want to
highlight to you, jordan, thatthat example that you just
described of reading poetry withyour children, that doesn't
happen if we have screensinvolved, that that's really at
(37:40):
that moment.
That moment is easilyinterrupted by screens, by just
one of your family members on ascreen.
So I think it's good to be kindof disciplined about their use,
the intentional use of screens.
That would be just a point thatwe've hear it so much and it's
gotten to the point where it'skind of a widely accepted
(38:01):
reality.
But as families it's so hard tochange some of these patterns.
But making time for each other,those contemplative patterns
are going to develop together.
They're actually going todevelop.
I think the easiest startingpoint would be a hike.
While we still have some goodweather here, a hike would be a
(38:21):
great thing to read together.
It's a great idea.
Music, please involve music,beautiful music, in your
children's lives.
Help them to really hear things.
And you know, it's great whenthey actually can develop an
interest in their own music,when they actually develop an
interest in actually playing aninstrument, their own music,
when they actually develop aninterest in actually playing an
instrument.
That's a participation increating something beautiful.
(38:43):
Art, art's another one, youknow, making time to go to an
art gallery or to actually toappreciate art in some form or
create art.
There are elements of our mindthat we just don't seem to use
enough and we need to do thattogether, as a family, to
develop the quiet patterns, thecontemplative patterns that
might lead our children to havethat peace that every child
(39:06):
deserves to have, thatopportunity to pray that every
child needs to be able to have.
Speaker 1 (39:13):
Yes, thank you, and I was just thinking of different
rooms in the house and areas ofthe home that you could sort of
convert in really small, simpleways in order to make those
activities more accessible toyour kids versus their screens.
(39:36):
If you can start by limitingscreen time and saying, well, we
put all screens away when it'stime for dinner for the whole
rest of the night, and then youhave a table that's out maybe in
your living room somewhereclose to the kitchen and you
have a puzzle on the table thatis something front and center
that they can see.
That is a different choice,right?
(39:58):
And so I know personally as amom, anybody that's visited my
house in the past probably fiveyears is probably gone.
This is a little uncomfortablebecause things are just, you
know, neat and tidy and in theirspot and it does like does
anyone really live here?
But what I'm getting used to islike you know what, there's
(40:18):
beautiful ways of stillmaintaining a nice home and a
comfortable home, but also thatis functional for your kids to
participate in the arts.
You can do a bucket of coloredpencils with butcher paper out
on a table and that just beingout and available for them is
(40:41):
such a good choice.
Even middle schoolers andteenagers love to doodle and
draw, and for them to havesomething immediately available
in their main space of living issuch a better option than going
down the rabbit hole of a phoneor a tablet or a computer
(41:01):
screen.
And, andy, you talked about howthe satisfaction of screens is
just really so minimal comparedto the satisfaction of reading
or observing something outsidein nature.
Can you talk a little bit moreabout that?
(41:22):
The difference between kind ofhow the brain, you know,
receives those two differentmediums.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
Sure.
Well, for starters, I think ifyou were to just compare the two
and I mentioned a black andwhite, non-moving text right in
a screen you're going to learnto.
The screen is effortless andyou can look at your children's
eyes when they're looking at aTV you're going to learn to.
The screen is effortless andyou can look at your children's
eyes when they're looking at aTV or a screen or a phone and
you see their eyes are not quitefully alive.
(41:50):
There's something there that'sin them because it's all being
presented to them.
But compare that to having tocreate something in their mind.
That's a more active endeavorto create the storyline.
As you're reading a poem,thinking about what the author
is saying, that's a pattern andI'd love to see.
(42:13):
One of the healthiest things inlittle children is to see
imaginative play games when theyhave their stuffed animals or
their dolls and they've actuallydeveloped their own
personalities and their ownnames.
And we've seen this in a lot ofchildren and that's a
construction, that's a buildingas opposed to everything already
(42:35):
done on the screen for them.
So one is more engaging of theactual will.
Even playing outside requires awill.
I mean it requires exercise, isso healthy for children being
outside, going for a hike.
They're taking things in andthey're thinking about it.
They're being trained to reallyto see, and natural beauty is
(42:57):
an easy one.
When we turn over our childrento screens, it trains them to
see nothing other than what'sbeing presented to them.
So we're really turning ourparenting over to the screen.
You know the phones of let'scall it truth.
(43:23):
You know about the source ofwhat matters in the world, and I
don't think we want to do that,you know, for our children.
We want to be the primarysource of truth for them.
They need that, they need thatperspective.
So the relationships, too, thatwe offer them through
experiencing these contemplativepatterns together I think it's
(43:46):
what families need more thananything else.
And it might even not be ascreen.
It might be the fact that wehave every child playing on two
soccer teams, and then itbecomes a logistical challenge
of just getting people indifferent directions.
It becomes a logisticalchallenge of just getting people
in different directions.
It might be that we don't havea time each weekend to be
together.
I mean, if you look at eachweekend, that's time where there
(44:09):
should be something reserved,and it doesn't have to be an
extraordinary activity.
I think that's a mistake lotsof parents make.
It just has to be anextraordinary level of attention
to each other, has to be anextraordinary level of attention
to each other.
So that time together you knowundistracted time together as a
(44:30):
family.
If you look at throughouthistory, I think we're at a
minimum right now when we talkabout undistracted time together
and we need to actively takesteps every family to actually
improve in this area, and you dothat with the help and support
of your spouse.
So maybe, if you're listeningto this and your husband is not,
or you're listening to this andyour wife is not, it would be a
great thing to have them listento some of these themes.
(44:51):
That's one of the reasons why Iknow, jordan, you do all this
hard work is to have couplesbenefit, parents benefit from
this and it's important that youknow that maybe a podcast like
this, that they actually canshare it together.
The value of that is huge to beon the same page Because, let's
(45:12):
face it, sometimes it's justhard to make changes in our
family's patterns, but as parentleaders, we can do that
patterns.
Speaker 1 (45:23):
But as parent leaders we can do that.
Yes, thank you for encouragingthat the sharing of these
podcast episodes with yourspouse, maybe even sharing the
earbuds as you go on a walk atnight.
You have one, I have the other.
We put the podcast episode on,we listen to it and then have a
conversation about it,incorporating it into something
we're already doing, so that wecan just make it a little bit
easier to doing, so that we canjust make it a little bit easier
to have some of theseconversations and make some of
(45:45):
these changes.
Well, andy, I certainlyappreciate you coming on the
show.
It's so wonderful to hear fromsomeone who has such extensive
experience working with familiesand middle school boys and
understanding what works best,because it gets overwhelming
(46:06):
sometimes as parents out here inthis culture and you can feel
like you're really swimmingupstream and you're saying no to
a lot of the things that otherparents are saying yes to and
you could feel that you'redepriving your child of
something by not giving them acell phone or a screen that our
culture offers and to really dothe meaningful work to form our
(46:28):
kids in the home in even justsmall ways and small changes
that are reasonable on aday-to-day basis.
(46:51):
So thank you, andy, for beinghere with us.
Speaker 2 (46:54):
Well, thank you, Jordan.
Speaker 1 (46:56):
Yes, we hope you'll share this episode with people
in your corner and, andy, wherecould they find more of this
content and your podcasts andtalks?
Is that the Heights Forumpodcast?
Speaker 2 (47:10):
Yes, so heightsforumorg is actually a
site.
Our school has over 400podcasts, articles, parent
lectures available for everyonewho's interested, every parent
out there or educator.
We put these online for freeand it's an opportunity just to
share ideas about parenting andthe culture of the home and the
(47:32):
culture of schools.
So feel free to join us anytimeon the Heights Forum dot org.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
Heights Forum dot org .
And Andy, if there are parentsthat are going wait, my kid's
school needs to hear from Andy.
Are you traveling and do you dopresentations or workshops for
schools?
Is that something that a schoolcould reach out and ask for you
to come and give a talk there?
Speaker 2 (47:54):
Yes, I'm happy to do that, thank you.
And I also want want to saypartner with your schools, to be
as intentional as possible.
Some of the things we talkedabout are it's excellent when
you can have the culture of yourhome confirmed by the culture
of your school.
So your teachers and yourchildren's lives.
(48:14):
Talk to them about some of thepatterns that you're hoping to
develop in your children.
You know, don't be shy abouttalking to them about some of
the aspirations you have fortheir growth and development and
what you're trying to do athome, because you'll find that
educators, by and large, theygot into education in order to
help you raise your children,and so that's the ideal.
So don't be shy about talkingto the educators in your
(48:37):
children's life about some ofthese same things we discussed
today.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
Wonderful advice.
If they could have the samesort of foundation at school as
they do at home, what a blessingthat would be.
I know you are serving that upat the Heights there in Maryland
.
So keep up the great work, andy, and thanks again for joining
us.
And, guys, I'll catch you onanother episode of the Families
of Character show real soon.
(49:03):
Take care, thank you, george.
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