September 2, 2025 • 50 mins
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What if the secret to raising virtuous children isn't found in lectures or lessons, but in the stories we share? When educator and father Jeff Minnick recalls the tale of "The Countess and the Impossible" – a story about a boy striving for excellence in lawn-mowing that shaped his work ethic for six decades – we glimpse the extraordinary power of literature in character formation.
In this episode we discuss:
• Stories serve as powerful examples children naturally want to emulate
• Reading aloud to children for just 15 minutes daily creates crucial bonding time while building language skills
• Classic books like Little House on the Prairie and Anne of Green Gables teach virtue without preaching
• Parents can find quality book recommendations through resources like "Honey for a Child's Heart", "Honey for a Teens Heart", and "Books Children Love"
• Poetry helps develop language patterns and moral lessons that stay with children throughout life
• It's never too late to start reading aloud with children, even with teenagers
Reclaim your role as the primary educator of faith and morals by sharing great stories with your children today.
Be sure to check out Jeff Minick's articles on The Epoch Times website and Intellectual Takeout.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey parents, welcome back to our show.
Have you ever wondered how toinstill virtues like courage,
kindness and responsibility inyour children?
Well, what if the secret liesnot in lectures, but in the
stories we share?
Today, we're exploring how thetales we tell can shape the
(00:21):
hearts and minds of our youngones.
Welcome back to the Families ofCharacter show.
I'm your host, jordan Langdon,and I'm thrilled to welcome Jeff
Minnick to the show.
Jeff is a seasoned educator,author and father of four with a
growing platoon ofgrandchildren.
(00:42):
For two decades he taughthistory, literature and Latin to
homeschooling students inAsheville, north Carolina, and
Jeff has penned several novelsand nonfiction works, and his
recent article in the EpochTimes, educating the Heart
Stories Can Inspire Virtue inOur Children, offers profound
(01:05):
insights into the role ofliterature in character
formation, and that's what we'reall about here at Families of
Character is character formationbeing the primary educators of
faith and morals for our kids.
So welcome to the Families of.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Character show, Jeff.
Thank you very much.
It's good to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yes, thank you very much.
Yes, it is such a gift to beable to have a guest in person.
Usually we do these over Zoomand so I'm sitting here with
Jeff.
If you're not watching onYouTube, well you could flip
over there and check us out butwe are posted up in a little
audio booth in the library inFront, royal Virginia.
So this is going to be a great,great conversation.
(01:54):
So, jeff, I told you as we werehaving coffee before the
interview that I am a recentlover of the Epoch Times and
that I saw this article that youhad written and I read it and
it really spoke to my heart as amom of three and someone who is
wanting my kids to really enjoygreat stories and to learn from
(02:19):
them, and I just thought, ohman, this, this article, hits
the heart of so many parentstoday.
I want to just see if I cantrack this guy down and get an
interview with him.
So in that article you beginwith the idea that virtue is
best taught by example.
(02:40):
So can you elaborate on howstories serve as examples for
children to emulate?
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Okay, I will start with myself.
Way back I'm obviously I'm 74years old, so we're going back
in a time machine, but when Iwas a kid.
I'll give two examples.
The first or three examples,the first books that interested
me other than Learning to Readand there's a funny story about
Learning to Read, I can get tolater but basically the first
(03:11):
ones that I really fell in lovewith, and there's some still in
print and they're calledChildhood of Famous Americans
series.
What the author does is theytake the childhood of a famous
person like George Custer,dwight Eisenhower and these
(03:32):
people and they tell you abouttheir childhood and the last
chapter tells you what they didas an adult.
And a lot of it is, of course,sort of fictionalized history,
but it just really snagged myattention.
And when people say, what's oneof the greatest influences on
you from reading?
I always say that first that wasthere and then just different
(03:52):
things.
I read, one of which let memake sure I get the title right
here.
I read in ninth grade atSouthwest Junior High School,
winston-salem, in our literatureclass English literature and it
was called the Countess and theImpossible and it was from
(04:13):
Reader's Digest 1958, theCountess and the Impossible.
You can find the story online.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
And it tells the story of this boy.
It just had a profound impacton my work life and it tells the
story of this boy who this oldwoman who's known as the
Countess in town is verydignified and maybe even an
accountess sort of wraps him onthe head as he's walking by and
says I want you to mow my lawn.
This is back when you had pushmowers that just turned like
(04:42):
this.
And so he starts mowing thelawn and she explains that
there's different levels.
$3 is what you do for a reallygood mowing job.
$4 is the next level up.
It's almost unattainable, andnobody's ever done a $5 lawn.
Keep in mind this was back inthe 40s.
And so the kid takes over andhe starts getting frustrated
(05:05):
because he'll go to her and hehas to tell her what he's worth,
and so he always says $3.
And one day he had his sightsset on doing a $4 lawn and then
he sort of punked out on thatand said $3.
And that night in bed he hadthis huge revelation and he
thought I should be aiming atthe five dollar lawn.
So the next time he mows hegoes out.
(05:27):
I'm sorry it takes so long.
I love this.
He goes out and mows and mows,and mows.
Then he takes some kind ofmachine they had back then.
It was like a drum barrel thatyou would roll over the lawn to
make it look even better, mow alittle bit more.
He clipped all the stuff,pulled weeds, and so from
literally early in the morninguntil almost dusk he's out there
working in the yard.
He goes and knocks on thecountess's door and says I
(05:53):
finished, and it's a $5 job.
And she says nobody does a $5job.
So she comes out.
It's a beautiful scene.
They're walking in the twilight, descriptions of the lawn are
there, and all of thissupposedly by the way, this is a
true story.
They're walking and they'relooking at the lawn and she says
you've done this magnificentthing, you've done a $5 job.
(06:16):
And he and she says why did youdo all this?
And he said because I think she.
He says at the end because yousaid it was impossible, and so
that's what really attractspeople.
And that story has stuck withme now for 60 years.
I looked it up online to comehere and talk to Jordan, and I
(06:38):
looked it up once before, threeor four years ago, and I
couldn't remember it.
Then I remembered it wassomething that I put lawn mowing
in the Countess and the storycomes up online if you want to
look for it.
But it's just a marvelous story, but it's just one indication.
Everybody has different ones.
Can I keep going?
Speaker 1 (06:53):
for a second yes, please.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Okay, I was helping found a private library here for
homeschoolers and also just forthe community at large, sort of
open up the doors to everybody.
And the nice thing about thislibrary, it's not done in
opposition to here.
It's been a lifelong dream of awoman, and the younger woman
who actually opened it was herdream too, and so they've opened
(07:17):
this library.
They're getting all thesedonations and a young woman who
worked there who's namedMagdalene Fitzpatrick.
I only met her a couple oftimes but I asked her why she
was working there and she saidwell, I love libraries and she
was Catholic.
It's going to be sort of aCatholic-based but still tons of
(07:39):
excellent old books you can'treally find anymore stuff a lot
of us have never heard of thatwere popular, say, back in the
30s and 40s.
And so, magdalene, I said, oh,that's really cool.
And she said you know my father, we just started the seventh
reading of the Little Housebooks.
(08:00):
That's in the article thatJordan mentioned that I wrote
and I love it.
She was very enthused.
She said I just love the storyof Laura, the Ingalls family,
the whole thing.
And when you think about it,think of how your character is
being formed by having your dadread aloud to you every evening
seven times and she goes back.
This is a teenager, she's 17and just loves sitting there
(08:23):
listening to her dad read theLittle House books.
And I will say if you're acritic of prose, I encourage you
to go.
Start out with the book LittleHouse in the Big Woods and
you're going to find almost aHemingway-esque style of prose
there.
It's gorgeous.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
If you read that aloud.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
It's gorgeous prose, but she's not only getting the
prose, she's getting all thosegood old character values that
are in the Little House books.
That was a long answer to yourquestion about how virgin.
I have more to say, I know andI can't wait to hear more about
it, but you do.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
You mentioned, like in the article I think you
mentioned, little House on thePrairie books and Anne of.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Green Gables.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
And so how do those, practically speaking, how do
these stories contribute to achild's understanding of virtue?
Because you talked aboutreading aloud, which is a
beautiful gift.
If that's the only takeawayfrom this interview you get, is
the value of a father readingaloud to their children, even a
(09:29):
mother reading aloud to theirchildren.
And you start there.
That would be a great gift toyour family is reading aloud
instead of what we normally do.
Set the timer, get the readinglog out, give them a book, make
them go off in a corner and readon their own, and then tell
them to come back and let usknow when they're done so we can
put our initials on the readinglog right, that's just kind of
(09:52):
the checkbox mentality we havewith reading sometimes these
days.
So Anna Green Gables, LittleHouse, on the Prairie series how
are these stories reallycontributing to a child's
understanding of virtue?
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Okay, first I want to start with something else you
said, which is how important itis.
You see this all the time.
Everybody knows this.
Everybody knows how importantit is to read aloud to little
kids and recently online, awoman named Sarah Anderson I
follow her work a little bit,I'm going to have to read the
title off of here because it'slong, but it's called the Most
(10:28):
Important.
15 Minutes of a Child's Day areDisappearing and the article
covers reading aloud to yourchildren, not your teens, so
much, but like, and so she every.
You know, if you look up 15minutes a day of reading, you'll
see article after articlesaying how important that is.
And they're disappearing fortwo reasons, three reasons.
Number one, technology.
(10:49):
Number two is people are toopressed for time.
And then number threeunfortunately a large percentage
of parents don't like readingout loud to their kids, which to
me is sort of unbelievableInteresting.
That was really interesting tome.
Forty-one percent out of thesurvey they had taken said no, I
don't like reading out loud totheir kids, which to me is sort
of unbelievable Interesting.
That was really interesting tome.
41% out of the survey they hadtaken said no, I don't like
reading aloud.
They do it sometimes, but theydon't enjoy it Okay, so to me,
(11:14):
reading aloud is reallyimportant.
My family in part because ofour work situation.
Our business was a bed andbreakfast, so we were living in
the middle of work.
We did not read aloud as afamily too much, but we did read
aloud every day to our kids,either at bedtime or other
points during the day, sometimesseveral times a day, and but
(11:39):
even the reading part is justcrucial, especially for your
younger children.
So just in terms of learning toread, reading is crucial and
keeping it up.
And so don't you know?
But the way we learn virtue isthe way we learn it.
We learn it every day in everyway.
(12:02):
I mean I just made that up,that's a little rhyme, that's a
rhyme.
We learn it every day in everyway.
I mean I just made that up,that's a little rhyme.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
That's a rhyme.
We learn it every day, in everyway, whether we're at work or
play.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yes, I love it.
But we do learn virtue.
If you're watching a movie,you're learning virtues of some
kind or vices.
Yes.
If you're on social media, youmay be learning virtue.
Listening to an influencer, youmay be learning virtue.
Listening to an influencer, youmay be learning a vice.
So it's a two-edged sword, andliterature can be the same way,
(12:32):
but in a much more limited senseand especially if you're
reading older literature.
There's a book that I mentionedin the article called the Norton
Anthology of Children'sLiterature.
It's massive, it's literallythis thick and it's just huge,
and it contains literature backto well, even a little bit
(12:52):
earlier but the 1700s.
And if you start flippingthrough that book, all of those
stories right up to the presenttime, in a lot of cases, like
the Little House, books likeAnne of Green Gables teach
virtue.
They don't preach virtue, theyteach virtue.
The good stuff doesn't hammerit away in your head.
You come away and go.
(13:12):
That's nice, you know.
I sort of hope I act like Anneof Green Gables someday.
You don't even think about thevirtues, you're just saying, oh,
she's kind of a cool person.
Or you think you read theChildhood of Famous Americans,
about Robert E Lee, and you go.
He was pretty, had an amazingchildhood.
Look at some of the stuff thathappened to him, and so that's
(13:39):
what I'm talking about as you,as you, learn this stuff by
osmosis, sort of Hmm, and you'reright when, a few minutes ago,
you said you don't learn it.
You can learn it gettinglectured, but most of the time
we learn it by.
We learn it from our friends,we learn it from family, we
learn it from media, we learn itfrom by example.
By example, even solitude,because you're thinking then so
anyway, yes, and that 15 minutesof reading a day going away.
(14:03):
We've got to bring it is we'vegot to bring it back.
We've got to bring it back.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
People should read to their if your kid is under.
Some kids, like Magdalene,loves being read to when she's
17.
I think I might like being readto.
I don't know, I've never hadthat, but people, it does so
many things.
The reading when you're little.
Not only are they hearing words, rhythms, like if you're
(14:28):
reading fairy tales, evenearlier, nursery rhymes, they're
hearing the rhythm of thelanguage, they're hearing
vocabulary, they're hearing allsorts of stuff.
But what the other thing thatpeople point out?
This is not original with me,but it's just so true.
They're bonding and beingintimate with the parent.
They're sitting in the lab,they're sitting here leaning on
(14:51):
them, like our kids used to dostudying, following the pictures
and stuff like this.
It's a moment, a great momentfor 15 minutes of bonding
Connections.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Connections yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
And so it's got all these positives and, to be
honest, at least sitting hereright now, I can't think of a
single negative.
I know it's got positivesgalore, so we should do it,
that's right One of the thingsas a parent I could say.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
When I was rushing around from my job to picking up
kids at school or whatever, Ithought, oh, that's the last
thing I want to do.
It's the end of the day, I'mwhipped, I'm tired, I don't have
the energy.
And then I just started.
(15:36):
I just started.
I picked up a book with my twokids.
I happen to love Liz Boyle'sbooks and so I thought, well,
they say that this is good forus.
And I used to read to my littlelittle kids you know babies and
toddlers and that made sense.
We were either, we were usuallymultitasking, I was either
(15:56):
feeding one of them or something.
So it seemed like I was beingefficient with my time, because
we're obsessed with efficiencyand productivity.
Right, so I can kind of justifyit then.
But then when our kids gotolder, I thought, all right, I'm
going to sit down.
All these homeschool parents dothis.
They read to their children.
They seem to enjoy it.
The kids seem to be justcurious and inventive and just
(16:23):
socially in tune, and so let'ssee what this does.
I couldn't believe how much Igot into the book myself, just
from reading it aloud, hearingmy own voice and then watching
the kids just like hanging onevery word, bonding for the
(16:50):
story that they could resonatewith because it wasn't me saying
you know, we really need towork on honesty and
responsibility and gratitude,and this is what honesty is and
then giving them the definitionof the virtue or the character
strength and then telling themwhat they needed to do.
But when they heard someone elsein a natural way living out the
(17:15):
virtue of honesty or courageright, because they're being
brave and taking some risk thatlands in a whole different way,
you know, and, like you said,they could say wow, I'd really
like to be like Anne Anne ofCream Gables, like there's
something about her and theycan't put their finger on it.
They might not use virtuelanguage, but they're attracted
(17:39):
to that character and the story,which is why it's so important
to introduce your kids to goodmedia, good books and good shows
to watch on TV, so that you'reintroducing them to the right
characters Right.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Yeah, I agree.
Yeah, that's, yeah, it's yep.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Well, and with so many books available, we're
sitting in the library full ofbooks and there's little pop-up
libraries all over the place.
Now how can parents choosestories that genuinely inspire
virtue in children?
Do you particularly have a booklist that you recommend to
(18:23):
parents of young kids?
Speaker 2 (18:27):
I used to have more, but I've actually, because I
mentioned that in the article,so I copied down a couple to
bring in.
And then I just want to talkabout the library a little bit.
There's a woman named ElizabethWilson.
These were back, so these areolder lists, these are back when
we were raising our kids andElizabeth Wilson wrote a book
(18:47):
called Books, children, love.
And again, what you want to dois, if you get one of these,
don't just get a list, get theones like she has, where she has
reviews, even short ones, ofwhat the book is.
You go oh, that might appeal tomy son, or something like this.
And then there's a woman namedGladys Hunt who wrote two books,
one one she wrote with herdaughters, but the first book
(19:11):
she wrote was called Honey for aChild's Heart, and Honey for a
Child's Heart talks about thatmeans the books, and so she's
got books and those go up toabout eighth grade.
So that's a good book.
But then she has another onecalled Honey for a Teen's Heart,
and so that goes along the samelines, but more for teenagers,
(19:33):
more maturity, like GeorgeOrwell books and things like
this in there.
So those would be good lists.
And then the other thing youcan do is if you go to the, if
your library and most publiclibraries do use Dewey Decimal,
if you go to the early, I'lljust say it's zero to zero the
(19:55):
very early shelves, the firstones there, you'll find a
section of, and I love bookslike this.
They don't say this, but it'llbe books about books, including
books for teens, books for kids,and so that's a second option
where you can find all sorts ofbooks and books that tell you,
(20:17):
give reading lists and tell youwhat to read and why you should
read, and things like this.
The next one I hesitate to makeas a recommendation.
It depends on your publiclibrary.
We'll just leave it like that.
You can always ask librarianswhat they've read to make as a
recommendation.
It depends on your publiclibrary.
We'll just leave it like that.
You can always ask librarianswhat they've read.
Oh, then another one.
This is a good connection isask your friends who have,
(20:40):
especially if they're children alittle older than yours and you
trust your friends then askthem what did your kids read
when they were little?
What did you want them reading?
There's kids books, whetheryou're talking about
kindergarten or high schoolbooks, and I'm not talking about
young adult fiction.
I'm leaving that off the table.
(21:00):
I'm talking about old-timeybooks, maybe, but they're just
marvelous.
I mean the English in the late19th century.
That's known as the golden ageof children's literature.
One other golden age ofchildren's literature was in
America post-World War II upthrough maybe the 80s.
I mean, it was a lot, just tonsof stuff coming out there.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
That's great, okay, so honey for the child's Gladys
Hunt's Honey.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
No, no, yeah, gladys Hunt's Honey for a Child's Heart
.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
And then Honey for a Teen's Heart.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
I like those books.
Those were good books, Ithought.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Wonderful.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
To be honest, I didn't check to see if they're
still in print, but I'm sure ifthey're not, you can get them
from a dealer.
And then Elizabeth Wilson'sbook, but I'm sure, if they're
not, you can get them from adealer.
And then Elizabeth Wilson'sbook Books Children.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Love is also a good book, wonderful, and you
mentioned and I will just echothis for our audience, but that
used to be that you could askyour librarian.
You know what do you recommend.
I think it's different now inpublic libraries, and so I like
the idea of asking your friendsfirst, right, like-minded
individuals what are your kidsreading, sharing, doing book
(22:16):
swaps, right?
You moms get together in suchbeautiful ways with your kids,
play dates and moms groups andthings like that.
It'd be great to share thesegood books that really help
develop the character of ourkids and get them out of this
sort of dynamic with us wherewe're just talking at them in
(22:40):
some ways, telling them aboutthe virtues, and instead get
them inspired and intrigued bythese stories that really
develop virtue, these storiesthat really develop virtue.
One of the things that, as ayoung parent, I would hear often
and it usually was around mychurch community was this idea
(23:02):
that, as a parent, I am solelyresponsible to be the primary
educator of my kids in faith andmorals, and I thought I have no
idea what that means, but thatsounds awfully intimidating.
You, as a parent, you aresupposed to be primary educator
(23:25):
of your kid in faith and morals,and so I thought I'm determined
to break this down for myself,first of all because I'm this is
one of my gifts is that I justgo.
I have no clue what that means.
Would you please tell me,because I want to rise to the
occasion, but I really don'tknow what that means.
I don't know if that means I'msupposed to educate my kids at
home and and and homeschool them, or if there's some underlying
(23:50):
you know, something else that Ishould be doing outside of that.
And what I found was that, inthe busyness of our culture
today, I think what?
What my husband and I found wewere doing is we were sending
our kids to great Christianschools, um, and we were going
to church.
But then, when we had our kidshome, you know, in the evenings
(24:14):
which is what I'm looking at nowa window of influence of maybe
two or three hours a night, ifthey don't have sports right
before they go to bed and afterthey get home from school, is
get them in the bath, get theminto bed, make sure they have
homework done and and put somefood in their belly.
And so what I realized is wewere outsourcing the development
(24:38):
of faith and morals to thechurch and to the schools and,
um, one of the things that I wasable to recognize that I can do
differently to form theircharacter is just what you were
talking about hey, 30 minutes ofread alouds at home.
But I did spend some timeresearching decent material
(25:01):
because I thought if I only havean influence, this two hour
influence in the evenings, thenI got to make sure it's not junk
and trash stuff that's going toencourage them to play more
video games or to want morescreen time or whatever.
But instead some of these olderbooks and these nursery rhymes
(25:22):
and poetry blew my mind when westarted reading these types of
things.
So I did want you to mention,in your experience of
homeschooling, teaching,homeschool kids and just your
background in literature, thevalue of poetry for kids, even
if they've never been introducedbefore.
(25:43):
Why poetry?
Why should we consider, as afamily, memorizing poems and
reciting poems?
Speaker 2 (25:52):
That's a very good question and I think I have some
answers to it.
The people, if you go back 120,140 years, even up until say
1920, when radio startedbecoming big people still, at
least in a lot of homes notacross America depending on the
(26:13):
home, but people gatheredtogether in the evening and
would often read.
Even they did their own musicyou can turn on a radio they did
their own reading and wouldread aloud, in part because in a
lot of homes I'll tell theDolly Parton story in a second,
if that's okay.
Yes, In a lot of homes theydidn't have many books and so
(26:34):
they would read aloud thingslike the Bible, which contains
poetry.
But they would also read aloudShakespeare.
They would read aloud, and Iknow this sounds highfalutin,
but to them it wasn't.
This was big in the 19thcentury.
Shakespeare had a huge sort ofwelcome in America, but then
(26:55):
they also just read.
People even like a little bitlater poets like Robert Service
or I can't remember his name,but like Casey at the Bat or
things like this.
And the reason to read poetry tome is number one is the
language, the rhythm, the beat,the meter, the rhyme.
(27:17):
All the stuff gets in bed.
And if you have your kidsmemorize a little poetry, all
the better.
I mean, I don't want to beatthem into memorization, but it
does.
It's really good if they learnsome poetry.
My heart stays with them therest of their lives.
And then also because poetry,if you think about it, and it's
(27:38):
true poetry can put into asonnet the same amount of
emotion that goes into a novel.
I mean so, instead of reading300 pages, you love the
characters and stuff.
Don't get me wrong, I lovereading fiction, but you can put
a ton of stuff into a sonnet.
There's experience on it.
How do I love thee?
(27:59):
Let me count the ways Browningall these things.
So I don't know if that answersthat question, but poetry is
really to me important and weneglect it and partly the reason
we neglect poetry these days.
And, by the way, poetry canalso just be fun.
Shel Silverstein most parentsknow who he is and he had a poem
(28:25):
.
I used to be we homeschooled.
I used to be a.
I taught homeschoolers inseminars.
I used to be a we homeschooled.
I used to be a.
I taught homeschoolers inseminars.
I used to be a judge.
What do you call it?
What do you call the person offstage who tells them if they
can't think of the next line?
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Oh, right, yeah, yeah .
Speaker 2 (28:40):
I can't think of the word.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
That was my duty.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
And every year people would do Shel Silverstein's
poem about being sick in bed, Ican't go to school.
And then they find out it'sSaturday and they said I'm
better.
So kids do like poetry and theylike funny poetry.
You can make it dramatic.
You have to read poetry in alittle bit different way and
(29:05):
make your mood really match thepoem.
And then, well, here's I'm justgoing to give you an example.
This just popped into my head,let's go.
Okay.
When I was a kid I had a jokebook that I liked to carry
around and read.
And here's what poetry, how itcan sometimes stick with you.
A green little chemist on agreen little day makes some
(29:26):
green little chemicals in agreen little way.
Now the green little grasstenderly waves over the green
little chemicals in a greenlittle way.
Now the green little grasstenderly waves over the green
little chemists.
Green little gray oh, I lovethat.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
I don't know where that came from, getting a little
loopy here, but that could havebeen like 65 years.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Oh gosh, it was longer than that.
No, that'd be about right.
65 probably.
Yeah, it was probably 8 to 10in there and it just stuck for
some reason.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Well, and look.
It brings you so much joy too.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
I know I still say it to the grandkids sometimes.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
So that's the value too, and it is, and it's a goofy
poem yeah, I get it all the way, but it does teach.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
It stayed with me because of the repetition of
brain, the beat and rhythm ofthe line.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
I mean, yeah, yes, Well, and I'll never forget just
the story you started withabout you know, the lawnmower,
the kid that was you know alevel three lawnmower.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
And then that's such a marvelous teaching tool.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Yes, yes and the bonding and the unity that comes
from sharing poetry.
Just, you're sitting on yoursectional couch in your living
room.
You got the the bonding and theunity that comes from sharing
poetry.
You're sitting on yoursectional couch in your living
room.
You've got the fireplace going,it's a winter day and you pull
out the poetry book that you puton the table, that you're going
.
I hope nobody asks me what thispoem means, because I've never
even seen it myself as a parent,but then you open it and you
(30:48):
just let yourself go.
You let your guard down and yougo.
We're just going to try it.
And it builds such great unityand you see these characters
bubbling up in your children asthey act things out, they get
their sword out or they, youknow, they challenge each other
to memorize something and youcan participate as a family.
It's just turn the screens offfor a while.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Turn the screens off for a while.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Get these books out and enjoy digging.
Tell them I've never done this.
I wasn't raised on poetrymyself, but I'm trying something
new with you.
Right, we're this likepartnership here, that's
journeying along life together,and that's what's so beautiful
about these things, you know.
So talk to us about DollyParton.
I'll give Dolly Parton.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
I'll get to Dolly Parton in one second, but first
I want to mention when I wasdoing that poetry contest thing.
It was once a year in thespring and they had everybody
from three and four-year-oldswho would get up and sometimes
they'd start crying, but usuallythey'd get up and recite a
little poem.
But this woman, a young womanI'll leave her last name out,
but I did know her.
She was a student of mine inthe seminars I taught Caroline
(31:56):
was her first name she got upand she recited and I had the
sheet right there with dramaticemphasis, word for word TS
Eliot's the Love Song of JAlfred Prufrock.
Now go look.
You know if you haven't readthat poem.
It's modernist, but he wasEliot, was a Christian.
Go read that poem and it'spages long without really any.
(32:20):
All I can remember from it is Ican remember several lines I
grow old, I grow old.
I show where my trousers rolled.
I don't know why I'm gettingold, but I don't have any big
urge to roll my trousers.
Sometimes I have troublekeeping them up, but not rolling
them up.
But okay, dolly Parton we weretalking in reference that, that
(32:46):
households with fewer books andif I'll get to this in a second
too but households with fewerbooks.
Dolly Parton grew up inTennessee.
Very poor environment, home.
Her dad worked hard andeverything, but they just didn't
.
Back then a lot of peopledidn't have much money and you
can look this up online.
(33:07):
Her mom would cuddle them inthe bed and read the Bible too,
because that's what they had.
But somehow she got her hands onthe Little Engine that Could
book.
This is showing lifelonginfluence of literature and
(33:27):
virtue.
So she got this little book andloved it.
She took it everywhere.
She read from it constantly.
She said she had it memorized,which I believe.
I think it's Walter Piper, Ithink was the author.
It's the one with the little.
It's a real 30s-looking design.
So she read this.
Well as an adult and this is upuntil probably even today but
(33:50):
as an adult, throughout most ofher career, she would get
nervous going on stage and shewould stand off stage going.
I think I can, I think I can, Ithink I can.
And that's what the littleengine that could says that
God's presence delivered in timefor Christmas.
So I think I can, I think I can.
So I just thought it was a coolstory.
(34:11):
And that shows you right thereovercoming fear, courage bravery
, and that's what her mantrabecame.
That gave her that.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
And she's blessed the world with this gift of being
able to sing and she shares herfaith, and that story from her
childhood inspired that couragein her.
I think I can.
I think I can, yes.
So even famous folks out thereare recalling things from their
childhood and characters thatthey learned about and heard
(34:43):
about.
To inspire them to keep goingand give us these beautiful
things, wow Can.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
I comment on that to the famous folks, things.
Wow, can I comment on that too?
The famous folks, if you, I,just in case your viewers want
to look this up if you look upex libris, which means out of
the library or out of the booksof really E-X-L-I-B-R-I-S Epic
Times, jeff Minnick, you'll seea whole series of articles that
(35:09):
I wrote on books that influencedAmerica's famous people, which
Dolly Parton's one, but most ofthem are back in the 19th
century.
Dolly books influenced someonelike oh, I don't know, george
Washington was one of the peopleJohn Adams, abigail Adams,
(35:36):
abigail Adams this guy there'sabout there's, there were
probably about 40 of these andthey, if you look at those, they
are really amazing at what theywere reading.
Number one and we're talkingabout before the age of 20.
And and then let me just see mynotes here.
Let me see one thing I wastrying to think of, one.
Oh, frederick Douglass.
(35:57):
I wanted to mention him.
He learned to read, was taughtillegally by his mistress to
read a little bit, and gottraded bread for with my kids to
teach him more about reading.
And then he bought at the ageof 12 or 13 the columbian orator
(36:18):
, which is this collection.
You can still get it online andit's a collection of speeches,
history, all these things, butit was focused on teaching
people to write and speak well,and speaking well back then was
huge and this.
He kept that book till the endof his life.
He called it his treasure andthis was something he bought
when he was 12.
(36:38):
George Washington a lot ofpeople know the rules that he
wrote, like 110 rules ofcivility.
He got those out of a text thatwas originally written by
Jesuits.
I believe in France.
And then they came over hereand he copied them.
These aren't all made up by himsomewhere.
And then the Bible had.
(37:00):
Just if you go back and look atalmost everybody in the 19th
century who's well-known saysLincoln I mean from Lincoln to
having an old-timer's moment.
Who wrote Uncle Tom's Cabin?
Harriet Beecher Stowe.
Yeah, yeah yeah, Same thing.
(37:21):
She grew up just immersed inthe Bible, partly because of
their home lives, but partlyagain because, in Lincoln's case
, it was one of the few booksthey had in the house.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Yes so.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
I just we see these influences, so they had the
bible.
I'm going to comment one morething on the bible.
It's amazing to me that peoplewho are going until they become
twins dwindling now, but peoplewho were english majors, a lot
of them, would not know thebible I I'm not talking about as
a religious book, but asliterature.
(37:52):
And if you don't know the Bibleas literature, at least in a
not deep way but at least in afamiliar way, you can't possibly
read hardly, you can hardlyread any author writing before
1900.
Look at Lincoln, go back andlook at Lincoln's speeches.
They have nothing to do withthe Bible.
(38:13):
They do, but the rhythms inthere are biblical and
Shakespearean.
I mean, if you read his secondinaugural address, gettysburg.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Address.
It's got all this King Jamesbeautiful stuff and that's where
he gets it from.
So, anyway, yes, bible on thenightstand and and it's not a
collector's item, it's just tosit there right, um but to pick
it up with your kids and to opento the gospel and and read a
little bit of it and not worryabout what if my kids know more
(38:51):
than I do about the Bible, but,again, to identify this
commonality that we should beconstantly learning and, as
parents, just having thathumility to say, oh, if we don't
know what this means, let'slook it up together, let's learn
about it together or ask ourfriends about this.
(39:13):
So that is an interesting pointyou make, that, whether it's
famous people or people inpositions of power, elected
officials, their mindset andwhat's important to them starts
way back in their childhood andoftentimes with something that
(39:36):
has influenced them, like a bookor a particular writer or the
Bible.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
But I think as parents, modern day parents we
could blow that off kids tosports practices and getting
caught up in things thatultimately are not moving the
needle forward for them.
If we think in terms of raisingadults, we're not raising kids.
(40:04):
We're raising kids to becontributing adults yeah, great
point.
Yeah, you know Exactly.
Contributing adults.
Yeah, great point.
Yeah, exactly that.
It's important to focus onthose critical few things and
ignoring the trivial manydistractions that can really
pull us out of some of this goodquality stuff like reading and
(40:29):
storytelling.
What else comes to mind for you?
Storytelling, what else comesto mind for you?
Are there any other littlestories or snippets of
information about literature orgood books or anything that's on
your heart?
I made a few notes so let's seewhat I wrote here.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
I would like to say two more things here.
The first is the other thingabout literature everything.
If you pick classic things thatkids like Aesop's Fables, any
of the well-known novels forboys and girls, little Women,
(41:04):
little Men, all sorts of thingslike this, if you stick to the
good stuff which it is goodstuff, and the old stuff, add in
new.
We all, even CS Lewis, oncesaid if you're going to read new
books, try to read one old bookin between each new book.
If you can't do that, read twoor three new books and then read
an old book.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
Great idea.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
And so when you do that, a guy named ED Hirsch or
Hirsch, I think, is how he saysit years ago, maybe 40 years ago
, I think his institute maystill, but he wrote a lot about
cultural literacy and it was.
How do you stay if you are, andwe'll get to poor readers in a
(41:45):
second read a lot of good booksand you come to a reference like
everything from the three billygoats, gruff to shakespeare's
polonius, and those arereferences.
You're going to be scratchingyour head going this doesn't
make any sense.
And so you basically, and ifyou don't look it up and educate
(42:07):
yourself, you become lessreader.
So jdsch wrote this book.
I can't remember the exacttitle.
If you just look up culturalliteracy, you'll find it about
this thick and it's things everyAmerican should know.
When you first see the book,you go I don't know half that
stuff.
But if you open it up, you do.
But his point is if we don'thave commonality in what we know
(42:30):
, we're fractured, and if wedon't have, if certain
individuals don't know thesethings, they can't really read
right.
And then the last thing that Iwill bring up it's a story on
myself, but it's sort of funny,but a lot of kids are having
struggling.
I don't like the wordstruggling.
(42:50):
A lot of kids can't read wellthese days.
Public schools and I'm notblaming public schools as
opposed to anything else Publicschools report.
They're the ones who do thereporting that you know.
It's like one out of everythree children maybe even more
than that is reading below gradelevel Below, not yet Grade
level, yes, and it's notimproving.
(43:12):
I mean, people are getting outof high school reading at third
and fourth grade level andthat's bad for our society and
so we need to really startfocusing on that.
And that's pretty much wherethe primary educator idea comes
in.
It's the parents.
We're paying now astronomicalsums for public education per
(43:34):
student.
Uh as well.
It's over 20 000 bucks, I think, average across the nation.
And but if you um, so reallyfocus on teaching your kids to
read and make sure, withoutdrumming in their heads, that
they realize somehow maybe seeyou reading, or if you're
reading a lot to them, thatincreases the thirst for this.
(43:56):
When I was um, I was inboonville, north carolina, a
town of 800.
My dad moved there to practicemedicine I went to.
He was fresh out of medicalschool from pennsylvania, so we
moved to boonville, north carCarolina.
Town of 800, little Boonvilleelementary school, no
kindergarten, yet that came thenext two years later in school.
(44:17):
So I start first grade and I goto class, get dropped off there
at class.
My mom later on I would walk toschool because we were close
enough.
But my mom picked me up anddrove me home.
I was quiet the whole way homeand she pulled into the carport.
(44:37):
I got out of the door cardidn't slam the door but I
closed it pretty hard and shesaid what's wrong with you?
And I said they didn't teach meto read.
I was told for like the yearbefore oh, you're going to
school, they'll teach you toread and you were so excited for
this I thought they would teachyou all.
I had no idea how you learnedto read, so it was like I'm
(44:59):
going to learn to read today.
Yes, yes.
But we want kids to learn toread.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
And it hurts the country and it hurts them when
they can't, so it takes away.
It not only hurts them job-wise, which we all look at, but it
takes away joy, it takes awaypleasure and things like this.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
So anyway, that's me on why we need to read.
I love it.
Jeff, Thank you for sharing allthis with us.
Parents.
If you're listening and you'regoing, I've done it wrong, it's
too late.
I have teenagers.
We never did any of this stuff.
Man, I wish we would have hadless screens, I would.
(45:38):
I would encourage you to make ityour mission to go on the hunt
for some an, an interesting book.
Just start with one or two thatmaybe you read, or or you
research and find out a lot ofkids are reading this, that this
is something of great interestfor teenagers or young adults.
(46:00):
And, as long as it lines upwith your faith and morals,
recommend it to your kids andsay, man, I may have missed the
boat on this reading thing withyou.
I wish I would have done moreof it, but I understand the
value and it's never too late.
So, gifting kids books, doingthat 15 minutes a day of read
(46:22):
alouds, you know.
Asking your friends forrecommendations on the books
that they're reading and theirgood book, you know, lists and
and things like that, that's,that's the way to go.
I think we can bring back alove for learning and a love for
diving into these books to helpform the character of our kids.
(46:44):
So if you haven't yet, I wouldstrongly encourage you to check
out the Epic Times, that'sE-P-O-C-H Times.
This is a publication.
Again, it's a newspaper.
Is the newspaper still in print, jeff?
Speaker 2 (47:01):
or is it all online?
It's once a week.
No, it's been once a week foras long as I've been writing for
them Once a week and thenonline.
Okay, wonderful Most stuff endsup online.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Okay yeah, wonderful, well, most stuff ends up online
, okay, wonderful.
Well, you can find more ofJeff's writing and his work in
that publication Also you writefor another one as well.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
I write for an outfit that's sort of making a
comeback right now, calledIntellectual Takeout.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
Yes, I love that.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Intellectual Takeout.
They're real good.
They have a lot of culturalarticles.
Okay, so that's it.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Wonderful Intellectual Takeout and the
Epic Times.
If you yourself want goodquality conservative articles
and nuggets to read about, Iwould highly recommend that, and
you can scroll down in our shownotes and get a link to the
articles that Jeff has writtenand also a link to the Epoch
(47:57):
Times and Intellectual Takeout.
Children aloud maybe picking upa poetry book on Amazon and
putting it on your coffee tableand then just challenging
yourself to open it up and havea good time with your family and
(48:20):
get this started, so we'llcatch you on another episode of
our show real soon.
Thanks for tuning in.
Hey parents, welcome back to our show.
Have you ever wondered how toinstill virtues like courage,
kindness and responsibility inyour children?
Well, what if the secret liesnot in lectures, but in the
stories we share?
Today, we're exploring how thetales we tell can shape the
(00:21):
hearts and minds of our youngones.
Welcome back to the Families ofCharacter show.
I'm your host, jordan Langdon,and I'm thrilled to welcome Jeff
Minnick to the show.
Jeff is a seasoned educator,author and father of four with a
growing platoon ofgrandchildren.
(00:42):
For two decades he taughthistory, literature and Latin to
homeschooling students inAsheville, north Carolina, and
Jeff has penned several novelsand nonfiction works, and his
recent article in the EpochTimes, educating the Heart
Stories Can Inspire Virtue inOur Children, offers profound
(01:05):
insights into the role ofliterature in character
formation, and that's what we'reall about here at Families of
Character is character formationbeing the primary educators of
faith and morals for our kids.
So welcome to the Families of.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Character show, Jeff.
Thank you very much.
It's good to be here.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Yes, thank you very much.
Yes, it is such a gift to beable to have a guest in person.
Usually we do these over Zoomand so I'm sitting here with
Jeff.
If you're not watching onYouTube, well you could flip
over there and check us out butwe are posted up in a little
audio booth in the library inFront, royal Virginia.
So this is going to be a great,great conversation.
(01:54):
So, jeff, I told you as we werehaving coffee before the
interview that I am a recentlover of the Epoch Times and
that I saw this article that youhad written and I read it and
it really spoke to my heart as amom of three and someone who is
wanting my kids to really enjoygreat stories and to learn from
(02:19):
them, and I just thought, ohman, this, this article, hits
the heart of so many parentstoday.
I want to just see if I cantrack this guy down and get an
interview with him.
So in that article you beginwith the idea that virtue is
best taught by example.
(02:40):
So can you elaborate on howstories serve as examples for
children to emulate?
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Okay, I will start with myself.
Way back I'm obviously I'm 74years old, so we're going back
in a time machine, but when Iwas a kid.
I'll give two examples.
The first or three examples,the first books that interested
me other than Learning to Readand there's a funny story about
Learning to Read, I can get tolater but basically the first
(03:11):
ones that I really fell in lovewith, and there's some still in
print and they're calledChildhood of Famous Americans
series.
What the author does is theytake the childhood of a famous
person like George Custer,dwight Eisenhower and these
(03:32):
people and they tell you abouttheir childhood and the last
chapter tells you what they didas an adult.
And a lot of it is, of course,sort of fictionalized history,
but it just really snagged myattention.
And when people say, what's oneof the greatest influences on
you from reading?
I always say that first that wasthere and then just different
(03:52):
things.
I read, one of which let memake sure I get the title right
here.
I read in ninth grade atSouthwest Junior High School,
winston-salem, in our literatureclass English literature and it
was called the Countess and theImpossible and it was from
(04:13):
Reader's Digest 1958, theCountess and the Impossible.
You can find the story online.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
And it tells the story of this boy.
It just had a profound impacton my work life and it tells the
story of this boy who this oldwoman who's known as the
Countess in town is verydignified and maybe even an
accountess sort of wraps him onthe head as he's walking by and
says I want you to mow my lawn.
This is back when you had pushmowers that just turned like
(04:42):
this.
And so he starts mowing thelawn and she explains that
there's different levels.
$3 is what you do for a reallygood mowing job.
$4 is the next level up.
It's almost unattainable, andnobody's ever done a $5 lawn.
Keep in mind this was back inthe 40s.
And so the kid takes over andhe starts getting frustrated
(05:05):
because he'll go to her and hehas to tell her what he's worth,
and so he always says $3.
And one day he had his sightsset on doing a $4 lawn and then
he sort of punked out on thatand said $3.
And that night in bed he hadthis huge revelation and he
thought I should be aiming atthe five dollar lawn.
So the next time he mows hegoes out.
(05:27):
I'm sorry it takes so long.
I love this.
He goes out and mows and mows,and mows.
Then he takes some kind ofmachine they had back then.
It was like a drum barrel thatyou would roll over the lawn to
make it look even better, mow alittle bit more.
He clipped all the stuff,pulled weeds, and so from
literally early in the morninguntil almost dusk he's out there
working in the yard.
He goes and knocks on thecountess's door and says I
(05:53):
finished, and it's a $5 job.
And she says nobody does a $5job.
So she comes out.
It's a beautiful scene.
They're walking in the twilight, descriptions of the lawn are
there, and all of thissupposedly by the way, this is a
true story.
They're walking and they'relooking at the lawn and she says
you've done this magnificentthing, you've done a $5 job.
(06:16):
And he and she says why did youdo all this?
And he said because I think she.
He says at the end because yousaid it was impossible, and so
that's what really attractspeople.
And that story has stuck withme now for 60 years.
I looked it up online to comehere and talk to Jordan, and I
(06:38):
looked it up once before, threeor four years ago, and I
couldn't remember it.
Then I remembered it wassomething that I put lawn mowing
in the Countess and the storycomes up online if you want to
look for it.
But it's just a marvelous story, but it's just one indication.
Everybody has different ones.
Can I keep going?
Speaker 1 (06:53):
for a second yes, please.
Speaker 2 (06:55):
Okay, I was helping found a private library here for
homeschoolers and also just forthe community at large, sort of
open up the doors to everybody.
And the nice thing about thislibrary, it's not done in
opposition to here.
It's been a lifelong dream of awoman, and the younger woman
who actually opened it was herdream too, and so they've opened
(07:17):
this library.
They're getting all thesedonations and a young woman who
worked there who's namedMagdalene Fitzpatrick.
I only met her a couple oftimes but I asked her why she
was working there and she saidwell, I love libraries and she
was Catholic.
It's going to be sort of aCatholic-based but still tons of
(07:39):
excellent old books you can'treally find anymore stuff a lot
of us have never heard of thatwere popular, say, back in the
30s and 40s.
And so, magdalene, I said, oh,that's really cool.
And she said you know my father, we just started the seventh
reading of the Little Housebooks.
(08:00):
That's in the article thatJordan mentioned that I wrote
and I love it.
She was very enthused.
She said I just love the storyof Laura, the Ingalls family,
the whole thing.
And when you think about it,think of how your character is
being formed by having your dadread aloud to you every evening
seven times and she goes back.
This is a teenager, she's 17and just loves sitting there
(08:23):
listening to her dad read theLittle House books.
And I will say if you're acritic of prose, I encourage you
to go.
Start out with the book LittleHouse in the Big Woods and
you're going to find almost aHemingway-esque style of prose
there.
It's gorgeous.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
If you read that aloud.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
It's gorgeous prose, but she's not only getting the
prose, she's getting all thosegood old character values that
are in the Little House books.
That was a long answer to yourquestion about how virgin.
I have more to say, I know andI can't wait to hear more about
it, but you do.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
You mentioned, like in the article I think you
mentioned, little House on thePrairie books and Anne of.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Green Gables.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
And so how do those, practically speaking, how do
these stories contribute to achild's understanding of virtue?
Because you talked aboutreading aloud, which is a
beautiful gift.
If that's the only takeawayfrom this interview you get, is
the value of a father readingaloud to their children, even a
(09:29):
mother reading aloud to theirchildren.
And you start there.
That would be a great gift toyour family is reading aloud
instead of what we normally do.
Set the timer, get the readinglog out, give them a book, make
them go off in a corner and readon their own, and then tell
them to come back and let usknow when they're done so we can
put our initials on the readinglog right, that's just kind of
(09:52):
the checkbox mentality we havewith reading sometimes these
days.
So Anna Green Gables, LittleHouse, on the Prairie series how
are these stories reallycontributing to a child's
understanding of virtue?
Speaker 2 (10:06):
Okay, first I want to start with something else you
said, which is how important itis.
You see this all the time.
Everybody knows this.
Everybody knows how importantit is to read aloud to little
kids and recently online, awoman named Sarah Anderson I
follow her work a little bit,I'm going to have to read the
title off of here because it'slong, but it's called the Most
(10:28):
Important.
15 Minutes of a Child's Day areDisappearing and the article
covers reading aloud to yourchildren, not your teens, so
much, but like, and so she every.
You know, if you look up 15minutes a day of reading, you'll
see article after articlesaying how important that is.
And they're disappearing fortwo reasons, three reasons.
Number one, technology.
(10:49):
Number two is people are toopressed for time.
And then number threeunfortunately a large percentage
of parents don't like readingout loud to their kids, which to
me is sort of unbelievableInteresting.
That was really interesting tome.
Forty-one percent out of thesurvey they had taken said no, I
don't like reading out loud totheir kids, which to me is sort
of unbelievable Interesting.
That was really interesting tome.
41% out of the survey they hadtaken said no, I don't like
reading aloud.
They do it sometimes, but theydon't enjoy it Okay, so to me,
(11:14):
reading aloud is reallyimportant.
My family in part because ofour work situation.
Our business was a bed andbreakfast, so we were living in
the middle of work.
We did not read aloud as afamily too much, but we did read
aloud every day to our kids,either at bedtime or other
points during the day, sometimesseveral times a day, and but
(11:39):
even the reading part is justcrucial, especially for your
younger children.
So just in terms of learning toread, reading is crucial and
keeping it up.
And so don't you know?
But the way we learn virtue isthe way we learn it.
We learn it every day in everyway.
(12:02):
I mean I just made that up,that's a little rhyme, that's a
rhyme.
We learn it every day in everyway.
I mean I just made that up,that's a little rhyme.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
That's a rhyme.
We learn it every day, in everyway, whether we're at work or
play.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Yes, I love it.
But we do learn virtue.
If you're watching a movie,you're learning virtues of some
kind or vices.
Yes.
If you're on social media, youmay be learning virtue.
Listening to an influencer, youmay be learning virtue.
Listening to an influencer, youmay be learning a vice.
So it's a two-edged sword, andliterature can be the same way,
(12:32):
but in a much more limited senseand especially if you're
reading older literature.
There's a book that I mentionedin the article called the Norton
Anthology of Children'sLiterature.
It's massive, it's literallythis thick and it's just huge,
and it contains literature backto well, even a little bit
(12:52):
earlier but the 1700s.
And if you start flippingthrough that book, all of those
stories right up to the presenttime, in a lot of cases, like
the Little House, books likeAnne of Green Gables teach
virtue.
They don't preach virtue, theyteach virtue.
The good stuff doesn't hammerit away in your head.
You come away and go.
(13:12):
That's nice, you know.
I sort of hope I act like Anneof Green Gables someday.
You don't even think about thevirtues, you're just saying, oh,
she's kind of a cool person.
Or you think you read theChildhood of Famous Americans,
about Robert E Lee, and you go.
He was pretty, had an amazingchildhood.
Look at some of the stuff thathappened to him, and so that's
(13:39):
what I'm talking about as you,as you, learn this stuff by
osmosis, sort of Hmm, and you'reright when, a few minutes ago,
you said you don't learn it.
You can learn it gettinglectured, but most of the time
we learn it by.
We learn it from our friends,we learn it from family, we
learn it from media, we learn itfrom by example.
By example, even solitude,because you're thinking then so
anyway, yes, and that 15 minutesof reading a day going away.
(14:03):
We've got to bring it is we'vegot to bring it back.
We've got to bring it back.
Speaker 1 (14:06):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
People should read to their if your kid is under.
Some kids, like Magdalene,loves being read to when she's
17.
I think I might like being readto.
I don't know, I've never hadthat, but people, it does so
many things.
The reading when you're little.
Not only are they hearing words, rhythms, like if you're
(14:28):
reading fairy tales, evenearlier, nursery rhymes, they're
hearing the rhythm of thelanguage, they're hearing
vocabulary, they're hearing allsorts of stuff.
But what the other thing thatpeople point out?
This is not original with me,but it's just so true.
They're bonding and beingintimate with the parent.
They're sitting in the lab,they're sitting here leaning on
(14:51):
them, like our kids used to dostudying, following the pictures
and stuff like this.
It's a moment, a great momentfor 15 minutes of bonding
Connections.
Speaker 1 (15:00):
Connections yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
And so it's got all these positives and, to be
honest, at least sitting hereright now, I can't think of a
single negative.
I know it's got positivesgalore, so we should do it,
that's right One of the thingsas a parent I could say.
Speaker 1 (15:16):
When I was rushing around from my job to picking up
kids at school or whatever, Ithought, oh, that's the last
thing I want to do.
It's the end of the day, I'mwhipped, I'm tired, I don't have
the energy.
And then I just started.
(15:36):
I just started.
I picked up a book with my twokids.
I happen to love Liz Boyle'sbooks and so I thought, well,
they say that this is good forus.
And I used to read to my littlelittle kids you know babies and
toddlers and that made sense.
We were either, we were usuallymultitasking, I was either
(15:56):
feeding one of them or something.
So it seemed like I was beingefficient with my time, because
we're obsessed with efficiencyand productivity.
Right, so I can kind of justifyit then.
But then when our kids gotolder, I thought, all right, I'm
going to sit down.
All these homeschool parents dothis.
They read to their children.
They seem to enjoy it.
The kids seem to be justcurious and inventive and just
(16:23):
socially in tune, and so let'ssee what this does.
I couldn't believe how much Igot into the book myself, just
from reading it aloud, hearingmy own voice and then watching
the kids just like hanging onevery word, bonding for the
(16:50):
story that they could resonatewith because it wasn't me saying
you know, we really need towork on honesty and
responsibility and gratitude,and this is what honesty is and
then giving them the definitionof the virtue or the character
strength and then telling themwhat they needed to do.
But when they heard someone elsein a natural way living out the
(17:15):
virtue of honesty or courageright, because they're being
brave and taking some risk thatlands in a whole different way,
you know, and, like you said,they could say wow, I'd really
like to be like Anne Anne ofCream Gables, like there's
something about her and theycan't put their finger on it.
They might not use virtuelanguage, but they're attracted
(17:39):
to that character and the story,which is why it's so important
to introduce your kids to goodmedia, good books and good shows
to watch on TV, so that you'reintroducing them to the right
characters Right.
Speaker 2 (17:56):
Yeah, I agree.
Yeah, that's, yeah, it's yep.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
Well, and with so many books available, we're
sitting in the library full ofbooks and there's little pop-up
libraries all over the place.
Now how can parents choosestories that genuinely inspire
virtue in children?
Do you particularly have a booklist that you recommend to
(18:23):
parents of young kids?
Speaker 2 (18:27):
I used to have more, but I've actually, because I
mentioned that in the article,so I copied down a couple to
bring in.
And then I just want to talkabout the library a little bit.
There's a woman named ElizabethWilson.
These were back, so these areolder lists, these are back when
we were raising our kids andElizabeth Wilson wrote a book
(18:47):
called Books, children, love.
And again, what you want to dois, if you get one of these,
don't just get a list, get theones like she has, where she has
reviews, even short ones, ofwhat the book is.
You go oh, that might appeal tomy son, or something like this.
And then there's a woman namedGladys Hunt who wrote two books,
one one she wrote with herdaughters, but the first book
(19:11):
she wrote was called Honey for aChild's Heart, and Honey for a
Child's Heart talks about thatmeans the books, and so she's
got books and those go up toabout eighth grade.
So that's a good book.
But then she has another onecalled Honey for a Teen's Heart,
and so that goes along the samelines, but more for teenagers,
(19:33):
more maturity, like GeorgeOrwell books and things like
this in there.
So those would be good lists.
And then the other thing youcan do is if you go to the, if
your library and most publiclibraries do use Dewey Decimal,
if you go to the early, I'lljust say it's zero to zero the
(19:55):
very early shelves, the firstones there, you'll find a
section of, and I love bookslike this.
They don't say this, but it'llbe books about books, including
books for teens, books for kids,and so that's a second option
where you can find all sorts ofbooks and books that tell you,
(20:17):
give reading lists and tell youwhat to read and why you should
read, and things like this.
The next one I hesitate to makeas a recommendation.
It depends on your publiclibrary.
We'll just leave it like that.
You can always ask librarianswhat they've read to make as a
recommendation.
It depends on your publiclibrary.
We'll just leave it like that.
You can always ask librarianswhat they've read.
Oh, then another one.
This is a good connection isask your friends who have,
(20:40):
especially if they're children alittle older than yours and you
trust your friends then askthem what did your kids read
when they were little?
What did you want them reading?
There's kids books, whetheryou're talking about
kindergarten or high schoolbooks, and I'm not talking about
young adult fiction.
I'm leaving that off the table.
(21:00):
I'm talking about old-timeybooks, maybe, but they're just
marvelous.
I mean the English in the late19th century.
That's known as the golden ageof children's literature.
One other golden age ofchildren's literature was in
America post-World War II upthrough maybe the 80s.
I mean, it was a lot, just tonsof stuff coming out there.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
That's great, okay, so honey for the child's Gladys
Hunt's Honey.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
No, no, yeah, gladys Hunt's Honey for a Child's Heart
.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
And then Honey for a Teen's Heart.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
I like those books.
Those were good books, Ithought.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Wonderful.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
To be honest, I didn't check to see if they're
still in print, but I'm sure ifthey're not, you can get them
from a dealer.
And then Elizabeth Wilson'sbook, but I'm sure, if they're
not, you can get them from adealer.
And then Elizabeth Wilson'sbook Books Children.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Love is also a good book, wonderful, and you
mentioned and I will just echothis for our audience, but that
used to be that you could askyour librarian.
You know what do you recommend.
I think it's different now inpublic libraries, and so I like
the idea of asking your friendsfirst, right, like-minded
individuals what are your kidsreading, sharing, doing book
(22:16):
swaps, right?
You moms get together in suchbeautiful ways with your kids,
play dates and moms groups andthings like that.
It'd be great to share thesegood books that really help
develop the character of ourkids and get them out of this
sort of dynamic with us wherewe're just talking at them in
(22:40):
some ways, telling them aboutthe virtues, and instead get
them inspired and intrigued bythese stories that really
develop virtue, these storiesthat really develop virtue.
One of the things that, as ayoung parent, I would hear often
and it usually was around mychurch community was this idea
(23:02):
that, as a parent, I am solelyresponsible to be the primary
educator of my kids in faith andmorals, and I thought I have no
idea what that means, but thatsounds awfully intimidating.
You, as a parent, you aresupposed to be primary educator
(23:25):
of your kid in faith and morals,and so I thought I'm determined
to break this down for myself,first of all because I'm this is
one of my gifts is that I justgo.
I have no clue what that means.
Would you please tell me,because I want to rise to the
occasion, but I really don'tknow what that means.
I don't know if that means I'msupposed to educate my kids at
home and and and homeschool them, or if there's some underlying
(23:50):
you know, something else that Ishould be doing outside of that.
And what I found was that, inthe busyness of our culture
today, I think what?
What my husband and I found wewere doing is we were sending
our kids to great Christianschools, um, and we were going
to church.
But then, when we had our kidshome, you know, in the evenings
(24:14):
which is what I'm looking at nowa window of influence of maybe
two or three hours a night, ifthey don't have sports right
before they go to bed and afterthey get home from school, is
get them in the bath, get theminto bed, make sure they have
homework done and and put somefood in their belly.
And so what I realized is wewere outsourcing the development
(24:38):
of faith and morals to thechurch and to the schools and,
um, one of the things that I wasable to recognize that I can do
differently to form theircharacter is just what you were
talking about hey, 30 minutes ofread alouds at home.
But I did spend some timeresearching decent material
(25:01):
because I thought if I only havean influence, this two hour
influence in the evenings, thenI got to make sure it's not junk
and trash stuff that's going toencourage them to play more
video games or to want morescreen time or whatever.
But instead some of these olderbooks and these nursery rhymes
(25:22):
and poetry blew my mind when westarted reading these types of
things.
So I did want you to mention,in your experience of
homeschooling, teaching,homeschool kids and just your
background in literature, thevalue of poetry for kids, even
if they've never been introducedbefore.
(25:43):
Why poetry?
Why should we consider, as afamily, memorizing poems and
reciting poems?
Speaker 2 (25:52):
That's a very good question and I think I have some
answers to it.
The people, if you go back 120,140 years, even up until say
1920, when radio startedbecoming big people still, at
least in a lot of homes notacross America depending on the
(26:13):
home, but people gatheredtogether in the evening and
would often read.
Even they did their own musicyou can turn on a radio they did
their own reading and wouldread aloud, in part because in a
lot of homes I'll tell theDolly Parton story in a second,
if that's okay.
Yes, In a lot of homes theydidn't have many books and so
(26:34):
they would read aloud thingslike the Bible, which contains
poetry.
But they would also read aloudShakespeare.
They would read aloud, and Iknow this sounds highfalutin,
but to them it wasn't.
This was big in the 19thcentury.
Shakespeare had a huge sort ofwelcome in America, but then
(26:55):
they also just read.
People even like a little bitlater poets like Robert Service
or I can't remember his name,but like Casey at the Bat or
things like this.
And the reason to read poetry tome is number one is the
language, the rhythm, the beat,the meter, the rhyme.
(27:17):
All the stuff gets in bed.
And if you have your kidsmemorize a little poetry, all
the better.
I mean, I don't want to beatthem into memorization, but it
does.
It's really good if they learnsome poetry.
My heart stays with them therest of their lives.
And then also because poetry,if you think about it, and it's
(27:38):
true poetry can put into asonnet the same amount of
emotion that goes into a novel.
I mean so, instead of reading300 pages, you love the
characters and stuff.
Don't get me wrong, I lovereading fiction, but you can put
a ton of stuff into a sonnet.
There's experience on it.
How do I love thee?
(27:59):
Let me count the ways Browningall these things.
So I don't know if that answersthat question, but poetry is
really to me important and weneglect it and partly the reason
we neglect poetry these days.
And, by the way, poetry canalso just be fun.
Shel Silverstein most parentsknow who he is and he had a poem
(28:25):
.
I used to be we homeschooled.
I used to be a.
I taught homeschoolers inseminars.
I used to be a we homeschooled.
I used to be a.
I taught homeschoolers inseminars.
I used to be a judge.
What do you call it?
What do you call the person offstage who tells them if they
can't think of the next line?
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Oh, right, yeah, yeah .
Speaker 2 (28:40):
I can't think of the word.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
That was my duty.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
And every year people would do Shel Silverstein's
poem about being sick in bed, Ican't go to school.
And then they find out it'sSaturday and they said I'm
better.
So kids do like poetry and theylike funny poetry.
You can make it dramatic.
You have to read poetry in alittle bit different way and
(29:05):
make your mood really match thepoem.
And then, well, here's I'm justgoing to give you an example.
This just popped into my head,let's go.
Okay.
When I was a kid I had a jokebook that I liked to carry
around and read.
And here's what poetry, how itcan sometimes stick with you.
A green little chemist on agreen little day makes some
(29:26):
green little chemicals in agreen little way.
Now the green little grasstenderly waves over the green
little chemicals in a greenlittle way.
Now the green little grasstenderly waves over the green
little chemists.
Green little gray oh, I lovethat.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
I don't know where that came from, getting a little
loopy here, but that could havebeen like 65 years.
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Oh gosh, it was longer than that.
No, that'd be about right.
65 probably.
Yeah, it was probably 8 to 10in there and it just stuck for
some reason.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
Well, and look.
It brings you so much joy too.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
I know I still say it to the grandkids sometimes.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
So that's the value too, and it is, and it's a goofy
poem yeah, I get it all the way, but it does teach.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
It stayed with me because of the repetition of
brain, the beat and rhythm ofthe line.
Speaker 1 (30:12):
I mean, yeah, yes, Well, and I'll never forget just
the story you started withabout you know, the lawnmower,
the kid that was you know alevel three lawnmower.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
And then that's such a marvelous teaching tool.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
Yes, yes and the bonding and the unity that comes
from sharing poetry.
Just, you're sitting on yoursectional couch in your living
room.
You got the the bonding and theunity that comes from sharing
poetry.
You're sitting on yoursectional couch in your living
room.
You've got the fireplace going,it's a winter day and you pull
out the poetry book that you puton the table, that you're going
.
I hope nobody asks me what thispoem means, because I've never
even seen it myself as a parent,but then you open it and you
(30:48):
just let yourself go.
You let your guard down and yougo.
We're just going to try it.
And it builds such great unityand you see these characters
bubbling up in your children asthey act things out, they get
their sword out or they, youknow, they challenge each other
to memorize something and youcan participate as a family.
It's just turn the screens offfor a while.
Speaker 2 (31:11):
Turn the screens off for a while.
Speaker 1 (31:12):
Get these books out and enjoy digging.
Tell them I've never done this.
I wasn't raised on poetrymyself, but I'm trying something
new with you.
Right, we're this likepartnership here, that's
journeying along life together,and that's what's so beautiful
about these things, you know.
So talk to us about DollyParton.
I'll give Dolly Parton.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
I'll get to Dolly Parton in one second, but first
I want to mention when I wasdoing that poetry contest thing.
It was once a year in thespring and they had everybody
from three and four-year-oldswho would get up and sometimes
they'd start crying, but usuallythey'd get up and recite a
little poem.
But this woman, a young womanI'll leave her last name out,
but I did know her.
She was a student of mine inthe seminars I taught Caroline
(31:56):
was her first name she got upand she recited and I had the
sheet right there with dramaticemphasis, word for word TS
Eliot's the Love Song of JAlfred Prufrock.
Now go look.
You know if you haven't readthat poem.
It's modernist, but he wasEliot, was a Christian.
Go read that poem and it'spages long without really any.
(32:20):
All I can remember from it is Ican remember several lines I
grow old, I grow old.
I show where my trousers rolled.
I don't know why I'm gettingold, but I don't have any big
urge to roll my trousers.
Sometimes I have troublekeeping them up, but not rolling
them up.
But okay, dolly Parton we weretalking in reference that, that
(32:46):
households with fewer books andif I'll get to this in a second
too but households with fewerbooks.
Dolly Parton grew up inTennessee.
Very poor environment, home.
Her dad worked hard andeverything, but they just didn't
.
Back then a lot of peopledidn't have much money and you
can look this up online.
(33:07):
Her mom would cuddle them inthe bed and read the Bible too,
because that's what they had.
But somehow she got her hands onthe Little Engine that Could
book.
This is showing lifelonginfluence of literature and
(33:27):
virtue.
So she got this little book andloved it.
She took it everywhere.
She read from it constantly.
She said she had it memorized,which I believe.
I think it's Walter Piper, Ithink was the author.
It's the one with the little.
It's a real 30s-looking design.
So she read this.
Well as an adult and this is upuntil probably even today but
(33:50):
as an adult, throughout most ofher career, she would get
nervous going on stage and shewould stand off stage going.
I think I can, I think I can, Ithink I can.
And that's what the littleengine that could says that
God's presence delivered in timefor Christmas.
So I think I can, I think I can.
So I just thought it was a coolstory.
(34:11):
And that shows you right thereovercoming fear, courage bravery
, and that's what her mantrabecame.
That gave her that.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
And she's blessed the world with this gift of being
able to sing and she shares herfaith, and that story from her
childhood inspired that couragein her.
I think I can.
I think I can, yes.
So even famous folks out thereare recalling things from their
childhood and characters thatthey learned about and heard
(34:43):
about.
To inspire them to keep goingand give us these beautiful
things, wow Can.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
I comment on that to the famous folks, things.
Wow, can I comment on that too?
The famous folks, if you, I,just in case your viewers want
to look this up if you look upex libris, which means out of
the library or out of the booksof really E-X-L-I-B-R-I-S Epic
Times, jeff Minnick, you'll seea whole series of articles that
(35:09):
I wrote on books that influencedAmerica's famous people, which
Dolly Parton's one, but most ofthem are back in the 19th
century.
Dolly books influenced someonelike oh, I don't know, george
Washington was one of the peopleJohn Adams, abigail Adams,
(35:36):
abigail Adams this guy there'sabout there's, there were
probably about 40 of these andthey, if you look at those, they
are really amazing at what theywere reading.
Number one and we're talkingabout before the age of 20.
And and then let me just see mynotes here.
Let me see one thing I wastrying to think of, one.
Oh, frederick Douglass.
(35:57):
I wanted to mention him.
He learned to read, was taughtillegally by his mistress to
read a little bit, and gottraded bread for with my kids to
teach him more about reading.
And then he bought at the ageof 12 or 13 the columbian orator
(36:18):
, which is this collection.
You can still get it online andit's a collection of speeches,
history, all these things, butit was focused on teaching
people to write and speak well,and speaking well back then was
huge and this.
He kept that book till the endof his life.
He called it his treasure andthis was something he bought
when he was 12.
(36:38):
George Washington a lot ofpeople know the rules that he
wrote, like 110 rules ofcivility.
He got those out of a text thatwas originally written by
Jesuits.
I believe in France.
And then they came over hereand he copied them.
These aren't all made up by himsomewhere.
And then the Bible had.
(37:00):
Just if you go back and look atalmost everybody in the 19th
century who's well-known saysLincoln I mean from Lincoln to
having an old-timer's moment.
Who wrote Uncle Tom's Cabin?
Harriet Beecher Stowe.
Yeah, yeah yeah, Same thing.
(37:21):
She grew up just immersed inthe Bible, partly because of
their home lives, but partlyagain because, in Lincoln's case
, it was one of the few booksthey had in the house.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
Yes so.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
I just we see these influences, so they had the
bible.
I'm going to comment one morething on the bible.
It's amazing to me that peoplewho are going until they become
twins dwindling now, but peoplewho were english majors, a lot
of them, would not know thebible I I'm not talking about as
a religious book, but asliterature.
(37:52):
And if you don't know the Bibleas literature, at least in a
not deep way but at least in afamiliar way, you can't possibly
read hardly, you can hardlyread any author writing before
1900.
Look at Lincoln, go back andlook at Lincoln's speeches.
They have nothing to do withthe Bible.
(38:13):
They do, but the rhythms inthere are biblical and
Shakespearean.
I mean, if you read his secondinaugural address, gettysburg.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Address.
It's got all this King Jamesbeautiful stuff and that's where
he gets it from.
So, anyway, yes, bible on thenightstand and and it's not a
collector's item, it's just tosit there right, um but to pick
it up with your kids and to opento the gospel and and read a
little bit of it and not worryabout what if my kids know more
(38:51):
than I do about the Bible, but,again, to identify this
commonality that we should beconstantly learning and, as
parents, just having thathumility to say, oh, if we don't
know what this means, let'slook it up together, let's learn
about it together or ask ourfriends about this.
(39:13):
So that is an interesting pointyou make, that, whether it's
famous people or people inpositions of power, elected
officials, their mindset andwhat's important to them starts
way back in their childhood andoftentimes with something that
(39:36):
has influenced them, like a bookor a particular writer or the
Bible.
Speaker 2 (39:40):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (39:42):
But I think as parents, modern day parents we
could blow that off kids tosports practices and getting
caught up in things thatultimately are not moving the
needle forward for them.
If we think in terms of raisingadults, we're not raising kids.
(40:04):
We're raising kids to becontributing adults yeah, great
point.
Yeah, you know Exactly.
Contributing adults.
Yeah, great point.
Yeah, exactly that.
It's important to focus onthose critical few things and
ignoring the trivial manydistractions that can really
pull us out of some of this goodquality stuff like reading and
(40:29):
storytelling.
What else comes to mind for you?
Storytelling, what else comesto mind for you?
Are there any other littlestories or snippets of
information about literature orgood books or anything that's on
your heart?
I made a few notes so let's seewhat I wrote here.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
I would like to say two more things here.
The first is the other thingabout literature everything.
If you pick classic things thatkids like Aesop's Fables, any
of the well-known novels forboys and girls, little Women,
(41:04):
little Men, all sorts of thingslike this, if you stick to the
good stuff which it is goodstuff, and the old stuff, add in
new.
We all, even CS Lewis, oncesaid if you're going to read new
books, try to read one old bookin between each new book.
If you can't do that, read twoor three new books and then read
an old book.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
Great idea.
Speaker 2 (41:23):
And so when you do that, a guy named ED Hirsch or
Hirsch, I think, is how he saysit years ago, maybe 40 years ago
, I think his institute maystill, but he wrote a lot about
cultural literacy and it was.
How do you stay if you are, andwe'll get to poor readers in a
(41:45):
second read a lot of good booksand you come to a reference like
everything from the three billygoats, gruff to shakespeare's
polonius, and those arereferences.
You're going to be scratchingyour head going this doesn't
make any sense.
And so you basically, and ifyou don't look it up and educate
(42:07):
yourself, you become lessreader.
So jdsch wrote this book.
I can't remember the exacttitle.
If you just look up culturalliteracy, you'll find it about
this thick and it's things everyAmerican should know.
When you first see the book,you go I don't know half that
stuff.
But if you open it up, you do.
But his point is if we don'thave commonality in what we know
(42:30):
, we're fractured, and if wedon't have, if certain
individuals don't know thesethings, they can't really read
right.
And then the last thing that Iwill bring up it's a story on
myself, but it's sort of funny,but a lot of kids are having
struggling.
I don't like the wordstruggling.
(42:50):
A lot of kids can't read wellthese days.
Public schools and I'm notblaming public schools as
opposed to anything else Publicschools report.
They're the ones who do thereporting that you know.
It's like one out of everythree children maybe even more
than that is reading below gradelevel Below, not yet Grade
level, yes, and it's notimproving.
(43:12):
I mean, people are getting outof high school reading at third
and fourth grade level andthat's bad for our society and
so we need to really startfocusing on that.
And that's pretty much wherethe primary educator idea comes
in.
It's the parents.
We're paying now astronomicalsums for public education per
(43:34):
student.
Uh as well.
It's over 20 000 bucks, I think, average across the nation.
And but if you um, so reallyfocus on teaching your kids to
read and make sure, withoutdrumming in their heads, that
they realize somehow maybe seeyou reading, or if you're
reading a lot to them, thatincreases the thirst for this.
(43:56):
When I was um, I was inboonville, north carolina, a
town of 800.
My dad moved there to practicemedicine I went to.
He was fresh out of medicalschool from pennsylvania, so we
moved to boonville, north carCarolina.
Town of 800, little Boonvilleelementary school, no
kindergarten, yet that came thenext two years later in school.
(44:17):
So I start first grade and I goto class, get dropped off there
at class.
My mom later on I would walk toschool because we were close
enough.
But my mom picked me up anddrove me home.
I was quiet the whole way homeand she pulled into the carport.
(44:37):
I got out of the door cardidn't slam the door but I
closed it pretty hard and shesaid what's wrong with you?
And I said they didn't teach meto read.
I was told for like the yearbefore oh, you're going to
school, they'll teach you toread and you were so excited for
this I thought they would teachyou all.
I had no idea how you learnedto read, so it was like I'm
(44:59):
going to learn to read today.
Yes, yes.
But we want kids to learn toread.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (45:06):
And it hurts the country and it hurts them when
they can't, so it takes away.
It not only hurts them job-wise, which we all look at, but it
takes away joy, it takes awaypleasure and things like this.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
So anyway, that's me on why we need to read.
I love it.
Jeff, Thank you for sharing allthis with us.
Parents.
If you're listening and you'regoing, I've done it wrong, it's
too late.
I have teenagers.
We never did any of this stuff.
Man, I wish we would have hadless screens, I would.
(45:38):
I would encourage you to make ityour mission to go on the hunt
for some an, an interesting book.
Just start with one or two thatmaybe you read, or or you
research and find out a lot ofkids are reading this, that this
is something of great interestfor teenagers or young adults.
(46:00):
And, as long as it lines upwith your faith and morals,
recommend it to your kids andsay, man, I may have missed the
boat on this reading thing withyou.
I wish I would have done moreof it, but I understand the
value and it's never too late.
So, gifting kids books, doingthat 15 minutes a day of read
(46:22):
alouds, you know.
Asking your friends forrecommendations on the books
that they're reading and theirgood book, you know, lists and
and things like that, that's,that's the way to go.
I think we can bring back alove for learning and a love for
diving into these books to helpform the character of our kids.
(46:44):
So if you haven't yet, I wouldstrongly encourage you to check
out the Epic Times, that'sE-P-O-C-H Times.
This is a publication.
Again, it's a newspaper.
Is the newspaper still in print, jeff?
Speaker 2 (47:01):
or is it all online?
It's once a week.
No, it's been once a week foras long as I've been writing for
them Once a week and thenonline.
Okay, wonderful Most stuff endsup online.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Okay yeah, wonderful, well, most stuff ends up online
, okay, wonderful.
Well, you can find more ofJeff's writing and his work in
that publication Also you writefor another one as well.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
I write for an outfit that's sort of making a
comeback right now, calledIntellectual Takeout.
Speaker 1 (47:26):
Yes, I love that.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
Intellectual Takeout.
They're real good.
They have a lot of culturalarticles.
Okay, so that's it.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Wonderful Intellectual Takeout and the
Epic Times.
If you yourself want goodquality conservative articles
and nuggets to read about, Iwould highly recommend that, and
you can scroll down in our shownotes and get a link to the
articles that Jeff has writtenand also a link to the Epoch
(47:57):
Times and Intellectual Takeout.
Children aloud maybe picking upa poetry book on Amazon and
putting it on your coffee tableand then just challenging
yourself to open it up and havea good time with your family and
(48:20):
get this started, so we'llcatch you on another episode of
our show real soon.
Thanks for tuning in.
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