Fantastic Four (2005) Part One - Exploring Doctor Doom's Marvel Legacy. From Julian McMahon to Robert Downey Jr - The Fandom Portals Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody and welcome to the Fandom Portals
podcast.
This is the podcast where weexplore the fandoms that help us
learn and grow.
In this episode, brash and Ilooked at the 2005 classic, the
Fantastic Four.
In this episode, we look at whoour community's most popular
member of the Fantastic Fourroster is.
We also look at how Fox dialedin their target audience of
teenage boys through the use ofmusic, tone and casting, and we

(00:23):
also take a deep dive into thecharacter of Doctor Doom,
especially Julian McMahon'sperformance in this 2005 movie.
We also look at what makes agood Doctor Doom and we look at
our predictions for how Marveldances around the Tony Stark,
doctor Doom and Robert Downey Jrannouncement in the upcoming
Avengers and Fantastic FourFirst Step, first steps movie.

(00:45):
In this episode, you will alsofind out how you can be a lucky
recipient of a family pass toyour local movie theater,
because we are giving away oneon the fandom portals podcast.
So tune in and enjoy thisepisode on the fantastic four
from 2005.
I am joined here by my co-host,brash.

(01:18):
Brash, how are you goingtonight?

Speaker 2 (01:21):
I'm on, I'm doing very well.

Speaker 1 (01:23):
Well, it's clobbering time because we're about to hit
this fantastic fall movie from2005.
Directed by Tim Story, writtenby Mark Frost and Michael France
and, obviously, stan Lee.
It's starring Yohan Griffithyeah, we looked up how to say
that Michael Chiklis, chrisEvans, jessica Alba, and it had
a budget of do you know how muchBrash Ooh a budget of.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
Do you know how much Brash Ooh a budget of?
Oh, actually it did have abudget of $100 million.

Speaker 1 (01:49):
It sure did, and it was very profitable financially.
It made $334 million worldwidegross on the box office.
Before we get into all of thatinformation on this amazing IP
of the Fantastic Four, we'regoing to get into our gratitudes
and growths.

(02:09):
Brash, I might go first thistime, so go for it.
My gratitude today is forYouTube chefs, and the reason
that I'm grateful for them isbecause, as I told you earlier,
I'm just now on school holidays,so I'm trying to do a bit more
around the house to help mypartner, who's been carrying the
load at home for a long time.
So I just said to her okay,love, I'll cook you dinner and I
don't know how to cook.

(02:29):
So I had to feed a family offour and I had no idea how to do
it.
So I went to Woolworths and Iwas like, what am I going to do?
So I started looking up YouTubecooking recipes and I was able
to find one that was quite niceand I successfully achieved
dinner for four.
And you know, usually mypartner takes on a lot of the
cooking duties.
I like to do it every here andthere, but you know I wanted to

(02:50):
do something nice.
So thank you, youtube chefs,for successfully allowing me to
cook for my family today.
That's my gratitude.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, I've also got a gratitude
Beautiful.
I am grateful for wrestling.
Yeah, bud, especially of late.
It's kept me sane, like I usedto love wrestling when I was
younger and then I stoppedwatching it for a long period of
time because I was a broke,poor little tradie and couldn't

(03:17):
afford the Oz star that I neededto watch it.
So anytime I could watch it, itwas at like friends' houses and
stuff like that, where theparents had, or when I was over
at their parents houses I wentwith their all star.
Now and lately I mean, I waswatching on Binge and everything
like that, because I was, I canafford Binge and that stuff now
, but now it's on Netflix.
It's so much easier to watchand yeah, it's just, it's been

(03:38):
sort of like a help from justlike the menial tasks of
everyday life and just going towork, coming home, going to work
, coming home.

Speaker 1 (03:45):
No, that's a good gratitude man.
It's good to have something tolook forward to as you come home
from work.
You know something to make allthe grind worthwhile.
So, after our gratitude andgrowth, we always go into our
first takes segment.
In our first takes segment, wediscuss how we first encountered
the media, what our initialimpressions of the media were
and our feelings on the movieafter having watched it.
We'll also share ourcommunity's thoughts on this

(04:05):
movie for those who havecontributed to our social page,
and if you would like to do that, you can do so on our Reddits,
on our threads or our Instagram,and all of those are in the
show notes below.
So, as we said, we are lookingat Fantastic Four from 2005.
It is written by Mark Frost,michael Franz and also the great
Stan Lee, directed by Tim Story.
It is starring Johan Griffithand Michael Chiglis in the

(04:32):
titular roles.
It is about a group ofastronauts who gain superpowers
after a cosmic radiationexposure and must use them to
oppose the plans of their enemy.
Dr Victor Von Doom that is asupervillain name Rash Straight
away.
When you hear that name, you'relike, ah, villain, exactly, I
know.
Which begs the question howdoes he become such an
illustrious businessman with aname like that.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
It's crazy, even the thing, though, his name is Ben
Grimm.
It's like yeah.
And he's the one that has todeal with the most shit, as his
body changes Exactly, and he'slike the one that has to deal
with like the most shit, as hisbody changes Exactly.

Speaker 1 (05:05):
It is a groom transformation.
So how did you first encounterthis movie and the Fantastic
Four, brash?
We'll let you go first for thisone.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
I'm pretty sure, because I'm pretty sure I went
and watched this with myex-brother-in-law Because we
used to go to watch.
We used to go, like me, and youdo like go to the cinemas all
the time and watch all thenewest shit to go at, because my
sister wouldn't watch it withhim.
Did you have a favorite Fromthe movie?
My favorite was Jessica Alba.

(05:34):
Sue Storm, because it's JessicaAlba, but yeah, back then I
think she was like the.
If you asked any teenage boywho their celebrity crush was,
it was Jessica Elba, but yeah,but even still, sue Storm, just
alone her powers are just insanecompared to like she's the

(05:54):
strongest member.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Oh, 100%, yeah, 100%, yeah.
I actually also went and sawthis in the cinema when it came
out in 2006,.
I believe it was when it cameout in Australia or 2005, late
2005.
And it was one of the timeswhen they used to do cinema
movie marathons.
So I was 15 or 16 at the time.
I went with a couple of friendsand my then girlfriend at the
time.
We watched that one and acouple of other movies and, yeah

(06:16):
, it was a really it was a greatmovie for a teenager to go and
see because it was full ofaction, the characters were
bright and awesome and poppy andit was like a media that I
already loved, because previousto that, the first time I'd seen
the Fantastic Four was throughthe cartoon, but I'd only just
briefly sort of watched that.
The main time I saw it was whenI was at the public library.
I was about 14 years old.
Shout out to public libraries,you guys are awesome.

(06:38):
And they had this teenagesection and I'd never been in
there before because I felt likeI was too young for the books
that were in there.
But I went in there because Ifound out from one of my friends
that they actually had graphicnovels in their comic books.
So I was like I'm in.
Yeah, I went in there and, youknow, looked up some comic books
and the first one that I foundwas a Fantastic Four comic from
2003 that was called Unthinkable.

(07:01):
It was a four-part series andit's basically the time when Dr
Doom forgoes science and divesinto mysticism.
But, yeah, it's a really kindof dark comic and in the end of
it it kind of leaves ReedRichards' face just hideously
scarred forever and ever andever.
And that was the first time Isaw Fantastic Four and I loved
them because they were thisunited family.

(07:22):
They were actually a reallylegit family with children and
everything, with Franklin andValeria, and each one of them
were different but they allcomplemented each other.
And then the movie was alsoannounced and coming out as well
.
So I was really excited for theFantastic Four.
So big fan of the Fantastic Fourhere at the Aaron camp, at
Phantom Portals and yeah,they've kind of been a superhero

(07:44):
team that they're probably mysecond favorite overall after
the X-Men, yeah.
So, yeah, let's dive into whatour who's, your favorite?
Oh, that's a good question.
My favorite is the.
I've Changed because when Ifirst started reading them it
was always Johnny Storm.
Yeah, loved him, loved hiscocky attitude, loved the fact
that he was more nuanced andin-depth than what people

(08:06):
realized.
But now my favorite is SueStorm.
I like her because she's theemotional core and the heart of
the group and she's obviouslythe strongest and she just
represents everything that theFantastic Four is.
Yeah.
So yeah, she's my favorite aswell.
We dropped that question ontoour threads, and our threads

(08:26):
question was who is yourfavorite member of the fantastic
four?
We had about 85 votes.
Come through from our amazinglisteners and guess who the most
popular member of the fantasticfour is, according to our
community brash well, like myheart's telling me sue storm,
but I have a feeling it's gonnabe john Johnny Storm.
So, with 32% of the votes, ourcommunity's favorite Fantastic

(08:48):
Four member is the Thing.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
Oh shit.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
Yeah, no, the Thing is pretty awesome, he is pretty
awesome.
And then, after that, veryclose in second place 29% of our
community liked the Human Torch.
And you guess who was the leastpopular?
Sue Storm.
Yes, unfortunately, sue Stormwas the least popular, with 16%,
mrfantastic tying in the thirdplace with 22% of our voters.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
I mean, I get it, Especially if they're going off
the movie version.
Absolutely I do get it.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
But we'll probably get into that later.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that.
Yeah, if they were going offthe movie version, that's
definitely these two with thething and the torch got the most
screen time and they'reprobably the most rewarding as
well.
But yes, we will get into thatlater.
We also put a post on ourthreads that said what did you
think of this movie, theFantastic Four movie from 2005?
And we had Sterling Hicks saythat it was phenomenal but

(09:39):
flawed.
I accept the criticisms of Doom, but they were never going to
do a sorcerer with an Iron mansuit character in the early
2000s and at least his suitlooked cool.
He said that Sue also got hitwith the eye candy, which is
accurate to the original Lee run.
He says that it's flawed forthe time and the thing was
perfect.
It was the best portrayal.
No notes at all.
He's only got love for theFantastic Four from 2005.

(10:02):
So that was Sterling Hicks.
We have certain speculation saysI was an extra in it.
This is actually someone whowas an extra in the movie and it
says and very much enjoyed thefilm when it was new.
I'd have liked to see itcontinue with the same cast for
more movies than two.
So that was good we had yeah,that was certain speculation
from our threads.

(10:23):
We had Walter Paisley, one thatsaid it was fun, which was the
whole entire point, which I canagree with as well, and then,
you know, we had some otherpeople that said that it was
great fun.
We also had DrPhil0525, not thereal DrPhil says it needed more
superheroing.
I mean, it is an origin story,but here's the thing as well

(10:43):
that they said that I thoughtwas quite interesting.
They said that we never reallylearned what Doom's evil plan
was.

Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, true, like, yeah, we didn't really have
Exactly, it was more like he wasjust pissed off at the fact
that he was losing his company.

Speaker 1 (10:55):
Yeah, it was a revenge plot the whole time.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
Yeah, he was pissed off, he lost the company and he
blames all the fantastic yeahexactly right and then we'll
flick over to our Reddits.

Speaker 1 (11:05):
We had Redrum71 said I still don't get the hate for
this movie.
We also have the Laughing manof Red said that Fantastic Four
was one of the biggest MarvelIPs out there and it seems to
balance things out pretty well.
Both movies work well enough inmy eyes for setting a decent
tone and getting some solacechemistry between the cast, but
I think that fox was the movie'sgreatest enemy.

(11:27):
They aimed to do a reboot asearly as 2009, about two years
after the sequel came out, andthe reboot attempt led to that
2015 movie, which did 167million against 120 million and
was an absolute failure.
We have also uh, agile.
C6447 says that it was prettyterrible.
Honestly, love the comics wasreally looking forward7 says
that it was pretty terrible.
Honestly, love the comics Wasreally looking forward to this
and it was a big and hugedisappointment.

(11:48):
And then we also had MPF thatsaid saw it once and that was
enough.

Speaker 2 (11:57):
A couple of mixed bag reviews there from our
community.
I understand where they'recoming from.

Speaker 1 (12:00):
Yeah, I definitely do as well.
And you know, I think for thisone, talking about the tone and
the appeal of the movie, it wasdefinitely great or gated
towards a young adult.
Yeah, dynamic, you know it wasbacking off the success of the
spider-man movies spider-man 1and spider-man 2 where they said
, you know, superhero movies canbe taken semi-seriously, with
some comedic undertones, and Ithink that kind of fit for the

(12:23):
time period as well, instead ofgoing too dark, which the 2015
movie attempted to do.
And then, you know, too lightand comical probably wouldn't
have fit for this kind of movie,especially using Dr Doom as the
villain.
I don't really see how you canmake a comedic movie with him
helming the villain spot.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yeah, dr Doom is one that you need to have a sort of
semi-serious movie about if youcan't make light of Doctor.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
Doom, absolutely.
Let's get into our Fandom FactFace-Off.
Our Fandom Fact Face-Off iswhere the hosts ask one another
a series of trivia questionsassociated with the Focus movie
For this month.
The hosts will work as a teamto collect points awarded for

(13:11):
correct answers.
If the hosts earn a total of 15points, a lucky listener will
win a gift voucher to the movies.
That's right.
You heard it correctly.
We're doing a giveaway for thismonth, our Marvel month, here at
Fandom Portals Podcast, and youcan take your family to the
movies on us.
The way that you enter that is,you go to
wwwfandomportalspodcastcom andyou sign on to our emailing list

(13:32):
and the successful winner willbe drawn on April 30th.
All right, so Brash, this timein celebration of Marvel month,
as we just heard, we're workingas a team a good old classic
Marvel team up, comic bookcrossover Marvel team up.
Yeah, so we're still going tobe telling each other trivia and
hoping the other one gets theanswer correctly, but we're
going to be setting the samerules that we usually go by,

(13:52):
which means we read the question, you're allowed one clue
throughout all three of yourquestions and you can ask for a
little bit of clarification ifyou think that the question
hasn't been asked properly.
That the question hasn't beenasked properly, but we're
working as a team, rash, we're ateam.
This time a team, you can gofirst.

Speaker 2 (14:06):
Ooh, okay, this one might be fun.
You might know, and it might beinteresting because it's one of
your favourite groups in theMount Marble universe.
Who else was offered the roleof Reed Richards, and in a
deleted scene, reed actuallyused his powers to turn into
that person?

Speaker 1 (14:26):
I do know this.
This is when Reed Richards wastalking to Sue Storm on the
bridge and he was talking aboutthe kind of man that Sue Storm
wanted to be with and he thoughtthat she would want to be with
a stronger man.
And as he said that, he morphedhis face into the Australian
legend of Hugh Jackman and Ibelieve that he was cast, or
wanting to be they wanted him tobe cast as Reed Richards, but

(14:46):
obviously he was already part ofthe X-Men universe at the time.
That is correct, hugh Jackman,fantastic.
So guess what, listeners,that's 1.14 more to go, and some
lucky family gets to go to themovies on us.
So, brash, here is yourquestion.
Michael Chiklis played theblue-eyed, ever-loving Thing in

(15:07):
this movie, and usually forroles like this, they encourage
the use of CGI, as had been donebefore in the Incredible Hulk
movie that came out a few yearsearlier.
What was the reason theydecided to go with the practical
suit for the thing in this 2005movie of Fantastic?

Speaker 2 (15:25):
Four, because Michael Chiklis was the only person who
was actually a fan of theFantastic Four and didn't want
to do a disservice by having itCGI and wanted to be as
realistic as possible.

Speaker 1 (15:36):
Absolutely correct.
He pushed hard against thestudio in the early inclination
to actually create thischaracter through a practical
suit.
He felt that wearing the suitwould give empathy to Ben Grimm
as he was playing it.
It would allow him to feel thealienation because he was
physically different from thecast that he was around and he
also wanted to feel the physicaldiscomfort and the isolation

(15:58):
which would mirror the emotionaljourney that Ben Grimm's thing
would go on through histransformation.
So he was very dedicated.
He was a massive fan of thecomics.
He was actually one of the few,as you said, and Stan Lee
actually said himself that thiswas one of the best portrayals
of the thing that he could haveever seen.
He actually went onEntertainment Weekly and he said

(16:18):
I really didn't want to beacting towards tennis balls in
reference to motion capture, andhe says that you lose something
essential when the other actorscan't see or feel the character
that you're playing.
So he felt like the chemistrybetween the actual four would
have been a disservice or wouldhave been lost if he was motion
captured or cgi'd, which isinteresting because in the new
one I think they've gone for acombined approach.

(16:39):
They've gone for ebbing mossback rack to be playing the
thing in a practical suit, butalso using some c CGI in times
as well.
Yeah, correct, two points,there we go.
13 to go, your turn, bro.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
Julian McMahon, who plays Dr Doom.
So he's the character of Doom.
He inspired his guard.
Look his scars and how theywere sealed off of a TV show
that he was a part of.
Do you know what that TV showwas?

Speaker 1 (17:04):
Yes, I do so.
He's referring to the scenewhere he's sort of picking out
the staples from his scar andhe's doing so in a very
meticulous kind of way, actuallyflicking them out of his wound
and onto the desk in front ofhim and he's looking really
sadistic as he does it.
He did that because he spent somany years in a show called Nip
Tuck and that focused onobviously surgical procedures,

(17:26):
so he felt like adding thatelement to Dr Doom would really
emphasize his performance,giving him something familiar
that he'd already sort of knewand adding that into the Dr Doom
performance.
Is that correct?

Speaker 2 (17:37):
That is correct, cause I love Nip Tuck.
And the only reason why I loveNip Tuck and the only reason why
I actually watch Nip Tuck isusually like because ER and
Laika shit was on at the time.
But I never really got intothose sort of shows.
But I got into it becausebecause Julian was in it, and
only because Julian was inCharmed and I loved Charmed yeah

(17:57):
and because, yeah, because I'mlike, oh, he's in this show.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
I'm gonna watch this show because he's in it yeah
yeah, I think, um, like julianmcmahon is australian as well,
which is, you know, shout outaustralian actors.
We love them.
And, yeah, he he's probably thecast member that received the
most flack towards hisperformance.
We'll probably get into that alittle bit later, but the next
question here we go, brash, areyou ready?
Okay?
So this movie was directed bytim story and produced by Avi

(18:22):
Arad, and they acknowledged thatthey had to change the tone
halfway through development ofthe movie.
They wanted to create a moviethat emphasized the
psychological toll of thismutation and the dysfunctional
family dynamics of the FantasticFour, which is definitely
epitomized in the comic books.
Very much so, but they changedit to a more lighthearted and

(18:42):
family-friendly vibe for aparticular reason.
Do you know what that reasonwas?
I got a hint.
Yes, you can use your hint forthis.
The reason they changed it isbecause they saw that a
family-friendly vibe would work,because it had worked for a
movie that is extremely similar,made in 2004, just a year

(19:03):
before that was made by DisneyPixar.

Speaker 2 (19:06):
Oh, was it.
Oh, actually the other reallyPixar superhero thing could be
the Incredibles.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
That's it, yeah, so the Incredibles came out in 2004
, and they found that it smashedbox offices everywhere and a
lot of people to this day saythat the Incredibles is the best
Fantastic Four movie ever made,because they just nail that
family vibe and because of that.

Speaker 2 (19:26):
They've all got well.
I'd say similar powers, butlike they literally do.
Yeah, the only thing they'remissing is, well, baby Jackson's
getting fire powers, but he haslike a whole multitude of
powers, exactly.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So yeah, the Incrediblesdefinitely was an inspiration on
the tone of this film, justlike the Fantastic Four was
definitely an inspiration on theIncredibles, that family of
superheroes that are goingthrough human family struggles,
and because of that the studioobviously also wanted to make
their film successful, sodecided to go with a

(19:56):
lighthearted tone.
Story admits in the commentarythat while the changes helped
the film to reach a broaderaudience, he felt that it may
have compromised on someemotional weight that he wanted
to go into in some of the scenesthroughout the movie as well.
Uh, he actually says in the DVDcommentary that we always
wanted to make a movie thatappealed to the whole family,
but there were some moments thatI would have liked to push
deeper into emotionally and wasunable to.

(20:18):
The Incredibles yeah, all right.
So that means we have fourpoints so far, which, yeah, all
right.
So that means we have fourpoints so far, which means our
community needs 11 more beforewe send one of them, lucky
listeners, off to the community.
Off to the community.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
Off to the movies.
You'll go bro.
This one's going to be reallyhard for you.
I'm very sorry, so I'll try andhelp you out, but it's going to
be really difficult.
It's going to be quitedifficult.
Okay, so other actresses wereconsidered for the role of Sue
Storm.
One of these actresses is alsoan extremely famous female
wrestler.
Do you know who that?

Speaker 1 (20:53):
female wrestler is Okay.
So actresses that wereconsidered for Sue Storm I know
that when Dennis Quaid and MegRyan were thought to do the role
at one point when anotherdirector was attached, I want my
hint, Brash.

Speaker 2 (21:07):
Because she is still current.
Um, she was in the last female,uh, royal Rumble and she is
currently, or more recently,teamed up with the current
women's world champion, oh sorry, women's North American
champion, tiffany Straton.
No, I don't know, you're gonnahave to tell me Trish Stratus.
Oh, I do know her because she'sstill current at the moment and

(21:30):
she was a diva back in the divaera as well, she was like one
of the first, wasn't she?

Speaker 1 (21:34):
Or one of the main ones?

Speaker 2 (21:35):
She's been wrestling for a very long time and she's
still doing it now.

Speaker 1 (21:39):
Yeah.
So some other actresses thatwere pitted to play Sue Storm
was Julia Stiles, kate Bosworth,rachel McAdams, scarlett
Johansson, elizabeth Banks aswell at various times, because
this movie also suffered frommultitude of directors at the
time as well, until Tim's storyeventually landed the top gig
and he was just coming off thesuccess of his barbershop movies

(22:01):
.
So he'd never done an actionmovie or anything like that,
he'd only done comedies.
So, yeah, the casting for thismovie and what I just say as
well, the casting for this movie, the four main actors that got
the roles in the Fantastic FourJohan Gruffydd, michael Chiklis,
jessica Alba and also ChrisEvans as Johnny Storm.
A lot of people said in ourcommunity that this is a
perfectly casted movie.

(22:21):
Like, looks wise, everybodylooks like their parts and they
kind of did a good job inportraying them as well.
There was some controversyabout Jessica Alba being a
Hispanic actress and thenobviously being portrayed as a
blonde-haired, blue-eyedindividual, but overall I think
everybody was quite happy withthe way that the movie was cast.
All right.

(22:42):
My question, last one.
I don't know if you'll get this,because this is kind of in line
with my teenagehood years.
So the movie is known and wellknown to be targeted towards a
teenage audience and as a resultof that, they used a particular
style of music whenever JohnnyStorm was on, really to push

(23:05):
that early 20s kind ofdemographic that identified with
rebellious, guitar-driven kindof music.
So can you name one of thebands from the Fantastic Four
soundtrack that played one ofthese songs Soundtrack?
The album released about amonth or two before the
theatrical release of the movieand it had a whole bunch of

(23:28):
really awesome early 2000s poppunk bands that were literally
on my DVR playlist.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
I'm trying to think of the song, but the very first
song, when Johnny's riding on abike.

Speaker 1 (23:43):
There's also another moment when Johnny and his
future wife, the nurse that'slooking after him, is jumping
out of the helicopter.
They're going to ski down thesnowy mountain peak, Like I know
.

Speaker 2 (23:53):
oh um one of my favorite uh, oh, actually two of
my favorite bands, I know ofthat were in this altar bridge
and some 41 yes, some, 41 is thesong that I was thinking of,
their song newts, newts yeahyeah, which you know is
sometimes referred to as the noapologies song.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
It is, uh, really, really prominent through that
moment where johnny storm isskiing down the mountainside.
And they use this kind of musicin these bands because they
wanted to tap into that early20s demographic and they knew
that there was an emo pop punkscene that was bursting through
and they want to cross promote,you might say, through Hollywood
.
And you know, a lot of the timewhen movies like this come out,

(24:30):
a lot of the soundtrack can behit or miss.
You know, when we're talkingabout soundtracks, there's
obviously the unforgettablesoundtrack of the Guardians of
the Galaxy with James Gunn.
He absolutely nailed that vibeand this was an early attempt at
doing something similar, youknow, highlighting musical
elements that fit the character,especially of Johnny Storm,
with that emo pop punk scene,which is why I think a lot of
teenage characters, myselfincluded, really emanated with

(24:53):
Johnny Storm, because wheneverhe was on the screen the music
that we loved was playing Allright.
So that ends our Fandom FactFace-Off segment and we are
currently sitting at five pointsfor our amazing Marvel team-up
for our community, which meansthat there is ten more points on
the table for us to get beforewe send one lucky listener to
the movies on us.
Remember, if you wanted to jointhat giveaway, all you have to

(25:15):
do is sign up to our emailinglist, which you can do so at
wwwfandomportalspodcastcom.
All right, this week we're goingto go into our Devil's Avocado
segment.
In this segment, the hosts divedeep into the world of what-if
scenarios.
They explore alternate endings,casting choices or even entire
story beats that could havechanged the course of the film

(25:35):
or the media.
We analyze whether thesealternate ideas would have been
a hit or a miss compared to theoriginal version.
Got a couple of Devils Avocadoquestions for you this week,
brash.
They're all centered aroundDoctor Doom, doctor Doom, doctor
Doom he is probably one of themost prolific villains in Marvel
history, cinematic, comic orotherwise.

Speaker 2 (25:55):
There is only Duel.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
He's definitely got lots of those kind of one-liners
that are all plays on his name,which is why I don't know how
he had a career outside of beinga supervillain, let alone how
he was elected as a sovereign ofan entire country.
So here's a question for you,because we know that the Doctor
Doom is the most recent villainin the MCU, being played by

(26:20):
Robert Downey Jr.
Yes, I fucking hate it, youhate it.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
I fucking hate it, you hate it, I hate it, I hate
it so much.
Yeah right, let's talk about it, let's talk about it.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
So how do you think Marvel used Tony Stark as Doom
in the Fantastic Four FirstSteps movie in 2005.
And then again also, we knowthat he's probably going to be
in the Doomsday movie and SecretWars movie, both directed by
the Russo brothers.
What are your thoughts on this?

Speaker 2 (26:44):
They're going to do some altered timeline
shenanigans or some bullshit,which I hate.
I hate this, Like I don't mindthe alternate timelines and
stuff.
I like how they did it, but Ilike how they blended it all
back into one timeline again.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
Well, yeah, that's the thing as well.
I think that there has beenlots of comic book adaptations
where it's sort of happenedbefore.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yeah, and there is a Tony Stark.

Speaker 1 (27:12):
Doom In the infamous Iron man comics from 2016 to
2017.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
But that's dumb.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
That's dumb.
That actually that version thateverybody's talking about,
where they say Doctor Doombecomes Iron man, like in the
comic books.
It's actually the other wayDoctor Doom becomes Iron man,
not Iron man becomes Doctor Doom, because after Tony Stark has
this, he apparently dies andthen Doom attempts to reform and
become not so much of a villainand he tries to become the Iron

(27:41):
man and explores Doom's legacyand how he struggles with
redemption and how nobody willaccept him because of all the
evils that he's done before.
So everybody's referring tothis infamous Iron man as a way
that they can adapt it, but it'sactually a story of how Doctor
Doom tries to be good and nothow tony stark turns bad um,
like he played iron man for solong and now he's coming back as
dr doom.

Speaker 2 (28:02):
It's, it's.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
I can't yeah, and I can see that as well, because
his sacrifice at the end of endgame was so I think it was epic
like epic, but bringing him backas Doom makes it feel pointless
because he's just back in itagain.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yeah, that was his out.
That's like how Steve Rogerscome back as an old man because
he went back in time and livedhis life like he should have
back in one of the back in 30sor it was, and comes back as an
old man, gives his shield overto Sam and says, alright, kid,
you take the wheel and sort offlies us off, passing him the

(28:39):
torch exactly and like Iron mansort of did that with Spider-Man
with Steve Parker.
It just ruins his bow out hehad this epic, amazing bow out
of his sacrifice.
To just come back in as a badguy, it's like yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:54):
Yeah, and I think that at the time when they
announced that Marvel was in alittle bit of trouble because a
lot of the movies that they wereproducing and making, they
weren't really hitting the markwith audiences and as a result
they kind of needed an ace inthe hole, because that came out
of left field for me when theyannounced that on the stage and
he pulled off his mask, therewere so many theories about who
would be cast as Doctor Doom inthe future.
And Tony Stark sorry, not TonyStark Robert Downey Jr was not

(29:19):
even top five on my list.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
Because he was Iron man, mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
I don't understand how they're gonna dance around
the fact that if he comes backinto the actual Marvel Universe,
marvel Cinematic Universe,people are just gonna be like.
People are just going to belike.
Are people going to be like?
Oh shit, it's Tony Stark andhe's going to be like.
Nah, I'm a victim on Doom.

Speaker 1 (29:40):
Well, there's two ways that they can do it really.

Speaker 2 (29:42):
They keep him as Tony Stark, but just as bad.

Speaker 1 (29:45):
Well, yeah, they can keep him as Tony Stark and adapt
to some kind of storyline wherehe Doom as a variant or
something like that.
Or they can do what they didwith Risa Farms in the Sony
universe and just cast him as DrDoom, and I hope nobody knows.
So he played Tony Stark andthen now he's being cast as
Victor Von Doom and there isn'tactually a comic storyline in

(30:06):
their following where Tony Starkand Victor Von Doom are linked.
Perhaps they're just expectingus to go with the fact that
Robert Downey Jr is now going tobe Victor Von Doom, and that is
what we should do.
However, if they are going togo with a comic book version,
I've got a few here that I'lltell you about and I'll see if
you actually think, okay, thatcould work.
All right, are you ready forthese?
Okay, yeah, all right.
So there is a what-if comicbook version that this kind of

(30:30):
thing happens.
It's called Demon in Armor, andwhat happens is we all know
that Doctor Doom and ReedRichards were roommates in
college.
Now, in this what-if version,reed was never Doom's roommate,
stark was.
Stark always had his fortuneand Doom was always as nefarious
as he's always been.
And in this reality, doomactually swaps bodies with Stark

(30:53):
and uses his fortune to thencreate an empire and take over
the world.
So that may be something that'shappened in the past, where
Stark and Doom were collegeroommates and Doom's
consciousness is in Stark's body.
And therefore Doom Stark,played by Robert Downey Jr, uses

(31:13):
the fortune of Tony Stark tobuild this empire and take over
the world.
And you know, basically, Ithink because the one line that
he said when he revealed himselfwas you know, same task, new
mask.
And Tony Stark's always beenabout putting a shield of armor
around the world.
He's always thought that hismission to protect the world, at
whatever cost, was justified bythe fact that he was protecting

(31:36):
everybody.
And that is something that'svery common with Victor Von Doom
as well.
He thinks he's the only onethat can save the world and is
smart enough to save the world.
And the fact that he does it bynefarious or villainous means
is where the conflict comes inwith all the heroes.
So I think that is a way thatthey could do it.
What do you think about thedemon in armor?
Approach Brash.

Speaker 2 (31:51):
What do you think about the demon in armor
approach Brash so Lex Luthorwants to protect the earth by
doing nefarious, bad things andkilling all the aliens and shit
that are on the planet.
Yep, yep, yep.
Being rich, being rich, beingevil, wanting being very
prejudiced against anyone buthumans okay, so not a fan of

(32:11):
that one.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
I've got another one for you.

Speaker 2 (32:12):
Here we go, brash well, I'm not saying I'm not a
fan, but the other way itdoesn't sort of.
Well, I'm curious that how itwould work if they did switch
bodies but then Tony Stark, asTony Stark is dead.
But was that?
Was Robert?
See, the fact that it's RobertDowney Jr is what makes it

(32:33):
implausible.
So if someone else was playingIron man and then Robert Downey
Jr was playing Thing, the waythat they would do.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
That is, they would cast somebody else as Victor Von
Doom, as the body of Victor VonDoom, and Robert Downey Jr
would play Tony Stark, and then,when they switched bodies,
robert Downey Jr would take onthe personality of Victor Von
Doom instead of Tony Stark'spersonality, and that other
actor of Doom would just fadeoff into the distance.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
How has that Robert Downey Jr get into the timeline?

Speaker 1 (33:04):
Well, I think that then talks about what's going to
happen in Fantastic Four FirstSteps, because I'm not sure if
he's going to be a prominentpart of that movie or whether
he's going to be a post-creditsscene.
But whatever happens in thatmovie is what's going to set up
Secret Wars and what's going toset up Doomsday, because the
Fantastic Four need to get tothe 616 timeline and therefore

(33:26):
so does Doctor Doom.
So whatever happens in thosemovies is going to predict how
this is going to work.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
And that may be the only way I could see that
happening is if there's somesort of dimensional rift or
something that maybe say, likeRobert Downey Jr, victor Von
Doom is fighting with theFantastic Four in their world.
The part that is going to takeme out of it a bit is the fact

(33:52):
that everyone's going to be like, oh shit, it's Tony Stark.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
All right.
So I worked backwards, right,and I'm going to give you my
theory of what happens, and ifthis comes correct, I want
everybody to clip this and sendit viral worldwide.
All right, here we go.
So we obviously know secretwars is coming out and we know
doom war is coming out.
In secret wars, which is the2015 comic, doom gains godlike
powers and becomes the godemperor Doom.
He proceeds over Battle World.

(34:15):
So we know that in Secret Wars,all these heroes are going to
come together, they're going tobattle each other and it's going
to basically turn themultiverse into one timeline
again.
All right, keep that in yourbrain.
Doom War In Doom War, doom wagesa war against Wakanda in order
to steal its vibranium Okay, andhe needs to steal a vibranium,
I think, in these movies.
Okay, and he needs to steal avibranium, I think, in these

(34:38):
movies, to create somescientific device that is going
to allow him to create ortransport everybody to this
battle world.
Now, doom world war, ordoomsday as it is called in the
movie do more, is the 2010 comicthat's based on doom day.
I believe is going to be theprimary inspiration for Doomsday
, because they've alreadyannounced that the Wakandans,
x-men and the Fantastic Four aregoing to unite to stop Doom,

(35:00):
and that's basically the premiseof Doom War.
So, working backwards fromthose two movies, we know that
Doctor Doom has this intent inthe 616 universe to create all
these multiverses and bring themback into one timeline.
I feel like that is very inline with Tony Stark's plan to
build an armor around the worldand protect the world from all

(35:21):
of these multiple sources.
Because if you remember the endof the Brave and the Bold movie
, there was the leader there whosaid you know, you're
protecting everybody from allthe threats in this world, but
what about threats from all ofthe worlds?
So because of that, I feel liketony stark is thinking the
exact same thing.
He wants to protect everybodyfrom all of the threats, and the
only way he conceived to dothat is by collapsing all the

(35:43):
timelines into one, making itmore manageable for him to do.
Now he's doing that through thepersona of doom, you might say,
but I think he's going to beplaying, you know, victor von
doom in the timeline of thefantastic four when first steps
comes out.
So this is what I think happensin fantastic four first steps.
It's going to lead to all ofthat shit happening there.
All right, here we go.

(36:03):
Okay, so in fantastic four firststeps, we know that that is an
alternate timeline that isbasically based around the 1960s
, which features the fantasticfour in like exploratory states.
They're celebrities in theirworld and we also know that
every single timeline has anchorbeings.
Right, they have these kind ofanchor beings and I think that

(36:25):
because we know that galactus isin this movie and we know that
the silver surfer is in thismovie and doom is either in this
movie or as a post-credit scene.
So I think that this movie isgoing to be exploring the fact
that these heroes have emerged,the Fantastic Four has emerged
and then the Silver Surferarrives because an extremely

(36:45):
powerful anchor being orextremely powerful being with
celestial godlike powers hasmade itself known in this
timeline and, as a result ofthat, it's drawing Galactus to
the Fantastic Four's world.
And when that Galactus iscoming and when Silver Surfer is
coming, I believe that they'llencounter the Fantastic Four and
they're going to think thatthat anchor being is Sue Storm.

(37:05):
The reason I think that isbecause Sue Storm is prominently
being portrayed as the leaderof the Fantastic Four, or at
least a very leadership-likepresence, and her uniting factor
, the heart of the team.
I think it's just going to besomething that they kind of draw
on here Now.

(37:29):
That being said, I think thatGalactus is going to come to
this world, that the FantasticFour are in, and I think that
world is going to be destroyedin some manner, and I feel like
Dr Doom or Tony Stark, robertDowney Jr is going to see that
in some manner, and I feel likeDr Doom or Tony Stark, robert
Downey Jr is going to see thatthis is happening and also work
with the Fantastic Four to tryand stop that from occurring.
However, through all this, we'vealso been confirmed that Sue
Storm is apparently or VanessaKirby, who plays Sue Storm, is

(37:51):
going to be pregnant.
Now in the movie or in thecomic books, she has Franklin
and she has Valeria.
Franklin Richards is anextremely powerful mutant.
He has reality-warping energypowers, he can create different
sorts of universes and his powerrivals that of the Phoenix
Force.
So I think that the legacy, theanchor beam's not Sue Storm.

(38:16):
I think the anchor beam is goingto be the baby that's inside
her, which is franklin richards,and as a result of that, it's
going to cause complicationswith her pregnancy, which
happens in the comic books aswell, and her giving birth to
this child is going to impacther life.
Therefore, the fantastic fourmake a pact with victor von doom
to use his knowledge and powerto bring this being into the
world.
In exchange for, in the comicbooks, he becomes the god parent

(38:39):
of valeria, which means that hecan use that child how he sees.
Now, if he's using that childhow he sees, he's going to use
that child to warp him into areality of his choosing, which
is how he gets to everybody'sreality and becomes the god
emperor, doom and starts battle,world and world war.
Doom starts.
That's my theory.
There's a lot there.
So I think it all hinges on theanchor beam being Franklin or

(38:59):
Valeria, whichever child isgoing to be within Sue Storm.
But I think that Galactus andthe Silver Surfer are going to
be coming to Earth to try anddestroy that anchor beam or to
destroy Franklin Richardsbecause of how much power that
he has.
However, they think thatthey're going to destroy Sue
Storm.
At this time they won't suspectthat it's going to be the child
, but I think, by merging theirpowers with that of you know,

(39:23):
they'll go to an old ally whenthey're in trouble, when Sue
Storm's in a whole lot of peril,they'll go to this old ally
that they knew, who has ultimateintelligence and technology,
which is Victor Von Doom, who'sgoing to help deliver this baby,
and in exchange for that, he'sgoing to be able to use the
powers that this child has, likea Rumpelstiltskin kind of vibe,
to travel him into a newreality or to create a new

(39:43):
reality.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
Are they going to time jump then?

Speaker 1 (39:45):
Am I?
No, I'm not thinking a timejump, I'm thinking almost like
Galactus will destroy thatuniverse.
I think that Galactus will comeand destroy that actual planet
and the Fantastic Four will flee, but they'll flee using the
baby's powers.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
But for Victor to use the kid's powers, how like,
especially if it's only a baby,how is he going to control that
power to do what he wants it todo?
Will they time skip it?
So he's older and then goes hey, Franklin, I'm your godfather.

Speaker 1 (40:11):
I don't think so.
It'll all depend on, I think,that he'll be able to tap into
the genetics of this child insome manner in order to activate
their abilities.
That's what I think.
How they do that I'm not toosure, but I think they're going
to use the Fantastic Four'schildren, Reed and Sue's
children, especially FranklinRichards, because he plays a
really big part in Secret Wars.

(40:31):
He has this reality-warpingability where he maintains new
universes and pocket dimensions.
He's also called in the Marvelcomics one of the architects of
Marvel universes because he hasthe potential and the power to
actually create universes.

Speaker 2 (40:48):
Well, technically, in some of the comics it's Kang.

Speaker 1 (40:51):
Well, yeah Well, Kang is actually a descendant, like
a long, long, long descendantfrom Reed Richards, which then
means also he is a descendant ofFranklin as well.

Speaker 2 (41:01):
Yeah, well, I know, in one of the animated shows
it's actually Franklin.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
Oh, it actually is Franklin.

Speaker 2 (41:08):
Yeah, franklin goes bad, and I'm not sure if he goes
bad bad, but he wants to changesomething in his future and
comes back in the past and do it.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
But, yeah, as can be conqueror and yeah, I think that
in the end Robert Downey Jr'sdoom will gain an affinity for
this child, because in the comicbooks eventually Valeria
becomes his familiar and hisgodchild, but also his heir,
becomes his heir to Latveria,because it's literally the only

(41:39):
progeny that he has, and he'salways found a connection
because he actually deliveredValeria Richards into the world.
He was like their wet nursepretty much, because Sue was
having so much trouble with herpregnancy through the radiation
that was in her blood that shewas passing that on to her
children and the only one thatcould help them was Victor.
So I think that Victor is goingto be called by the Fantastic

(42:01):
Four as a previous enemy that isgoing to become an ally who
helps Sue through her pregnancyand deliver this baby in
exchange for something in thefuture that he is going to use
that child for.

Speaker 2 (42:11):
I still just can't.
I just can't.
I mean I can see it becausethey've done.
They sort of did it inWandaVision, where they had the
Fox version of Pedro, oh yes yes, yes, quixot, pietro Pietro.
Pietro, pietro, come in asQuixot, come in from the Fox

(42:33):
universe.

Speaker 1 (42:35):
And then it turns out that it was actually just some
dude, Funnily enough, andcorrect me if I'm wrong.
I think WandaVision is beingdirected by the same person as
the Fantastic Four First Steps,but that's not out of his
wheelhouse, Mike Shackman.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Yeah, but we find out in Agatha all along that the
guy who was playing the brotheractually knew all along that he
wasn't the actual brother.
He was just some random dudethat was in the wrong place at
the wrong time and Wonder madehim think that, controlled his
mind like she did everyone elsein the town and made him think
that he was her brother when infact he wasn't.

(43:10):
He was just a dude in theMarvel and Sonic universe that
just looked like the Fox versionof Quicksilver Yep.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
So yeah, matt Shackman is the director of
WandaVision and also he's goingto be the director of Fantastic
Four, first Step.
So it's not out of hiswheelhouse to do a little
callback.

Speaker 2 (43:28):
I can understand and realistically, no one's going to
really see Victor Von Doom asRobert Downey Jr probably until
Doomsday, I would assume,because if he's only coming into
it in Fantastic Four, there'sgoing to be no one there who
knows who Robert Downey Jr orwhat Iron man is.
They're only going to knowRobert Downey Jr, victor Von

(43:50):
Doom, it's only when he mergesthe worlds or whatever he's
going to do to get everyonetogether when everybody that he
knows from his previous avengerslife as tony stark is going to
start saying wait a minute, damn, you look like tony stark you
look so familiar and I can't putmy finger on it.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
Yeah, no, all right, let's go to our next uh, devil's
avocado question.
So let's go back to ourfantastic Four 2005 movie,
because we've absolutelydigressed from that and talked
about some Fantastic Fourtheories for the coming 2025
movie.
So let's talk about DoctorDoom's portrayal in the 2005
movie played by Julian McMahon,australian actor.
Critics did not enjoy.

(44:30):
I don't think it was that theydidn't enjoy his performance.
I think they did not enjoy theway that doom was portrayed.
What are your thoughts, brash?

Speaker 2 (44:38):
I in a way, agree with them.
The reason, the reason whyvictor on doom hates the phaser
force, or particularly reedrichards so much, is that in the
accident, the game of theirpowers, victor is meant to get
scarred the shit up like he'smeant to look atrocious and
that's why he wears full bodyarmor and that mask to cover up
his scarred face and he hates,seething rage Ree Richards and

(45:02):
blames him for that boy, forbeing like that.
In this he hates Ree Richardsbecause he's stealing the girl
that he doesn't technicallyreally have.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
Yeah, he's portraying in this one his personality and
motivations are, to use theyouth's term, whack.

Speaker 2 (45:21):
He's losing his business.
He's pissed off about that andblaming Reed Richards, or
blaming all of them for that,because of the space station
incident.
And then he's also even morepissed off at Reed Richards
because he's stealing my girl,even though Sue's like I, ain't
his girl.

Speaker 1 (45:34):
Yeah, I think that is one of the biggest differences
really, because, you know, comicbook doom is a really complex
character.
He is driven by a belief thathe alone can save the world and
he's also destined to rule it aswell.
And when you're looking at thisversion of him, he plays this
jealous businessman who's reallyout for revenge which doom does
do but in this one he seemsreally petty and the reasons

(45:56):
behind it seem very petty aswell, and he comes off as whiny.
And he comes off, as you know.
Also, as one of our threaderscommented as well, his
motivations and his actual planis never fully explained to us
in this movie, like through thewriting.
It's doom is kind of like anafterthought at the end of this
movie because they needed tofight a villain, whereas most of

(46:17):
the complication of this moviewas the fantastic four
characters trying to work outtheir powers and trying to
actually find a way to reversethe powers that they then had.
Now Doom kind of takes abackseat to this, where he's
going through the same, similartransformations, but he's using
the powers that he's getting togo and kill all the board
members that were going to shuthim down, which is extremely

(46:37):
similar to the Spider-Man moviethat Green Goblin did, which
this one definitely was tryingto run off the coattails of, and
I just think it didn't work forthe character of Doctor Doom.
It works for a character likeGreen Goblin, who is unhinged,
but for Doctor Doom we know thathis comic book counterpart is
extremely calculating.
He's very intelligent.
One of his actual abilities andpowers, you might say, is that

(46:57):
he has a genius level intellectand a very strategic mind.
I didn't see that coming off inthis 2005 movie at all.

Speaker 2 (47:05):
Yeah, Julian makes a good Doctor Doom, but the
writing didn't make a goodDoctor Doom.

Speaker 1 (47:11):
I completely agree with that because the way that
he played some of those scenes,you can see that he could go
from calculating to extremelyconniving and unhinged in the
click of a finger.
One of the scenes that come tomind is obviously when he's
talking to Reed in the top ofhis Baxter building and the
electricity is flicking in andout and he's talking about how
he wants a fix to this now Likethat kind of shift that the

(47:34):
actor of Julian McMahon can do,very Doom-like.
Also, I think that he actuallylooks the part as well.
I think Julian McMahon, in theway that he looks his appearance
, very Doctor Doom-like.
I imagine him as Doctor Doom,even in the comic books.
You can see that he has similarfacial structures to Victor Von
Doom as well.

Speaker 2 (47:52):
Wonderful casting, but poor execution on the
character side.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
Yeah, I think with this one as well, one thing
that's definitely missing thatkind of it's really fundamental
for a dr doom character, and drdoom is so hard to bring to the
big screen because he is.
So he's got so much going onlike he is a scientist with with
a master of technology, andhe's also that skilled sorcerer.
But not only is he a sorcererand a scientist buddy, he is a
scientist with a master oftechnology and he's also that
skilled sorcerer.
But not only is he a sorcererand a scientist buddy, he is a

(48:19):
king, he's the monarch ofLatveria.
So he's got these threeamazingly large titles that
require so much depth and timeto develop to an audience.
And it's only through the comicbooks and him being one of the
oldest villains that we havethat we're able to see this come
through.
But one thing that I kind ofwould like to see, which I don't
think I don't even thinkthey'll explore it in the new
one and we definitely didn't seeit in the o5 version was was

(48:40):
his sorcerous origins, becausethat really motivates so much of
who he is and what he does as acharacter.
And his motivations because hisfather was a uh, romani healer,
and this is why I like VictorVon Doom as well, because I have
gypsy heritage and so does he.
We have a connection here.
I'm secretly a supervillain, ohwow.

(49:04):
So yeah, his father was a healerwho died trying to flee
Latveria after the then ruler ofLatveria wanted him to save his
wife, but Warner Doom's fathercouldn't do it, so the monarch
got extremely mad and thenkilled his father.
However, in the process ofdoing this, doom's mother,
cynthia von Doom she actuallyarranged this pact with Mephisto

(49:25):
to bring her husband back inexchange for her soul, and
obviously she got messed over inthat arrangement.
But that started Doom's sort ofobsession with the occult,
because he grew up reallyresentful and obsessed with
avenging his parents.
And also you can see throughouthis comic book run that he also
bargains so much with alldifferent kinds of demons from

(49:46):
the other planes and especiallyhell.
His love of technology got himout of Eastern Europe and got
him to America, where he endedup meeting Reed Richards, and
that's a similarity that theyhave in the movie as well.
However, the only incident thattells us that he's from
Latveria is when one of theboard members says to him in
this movie you know, maybe it'stime to go back to the old

(50:08):
country.
What was it again?
Latveria?

Speaker 2 (50:11):
And then he's also got that mask that says the mask
that says, oh, a gift fromLatveria.
It's like, wow, what a shitgift.

Speaker 1 (50:17):
He's from humanitarian services to
Latveria.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
He has a creepy mask, yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:22):
In the comic books, though that's accurate from the
2005 movie, because Latveria islike a beacon in a province that
is almost perfectly run in avery bleak and desolate Eastern
European landscape.
So he looks after his people inLatveria so well and they all
love him so much they wanted toput the mask in there to say, oh

(50:43):
look, it's Dr Doom's mask.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
And then they also wanted to have that time to love
him.
So like, oh, the people couldhave given him this.

Speaker 1 (50:49):
Yeah, and you know it also like cheapens that origin
and I know you really can't getinto that much of it, but I do
feel like Doctor Doom took abackseat in this movie and and
like especially Doctor Doom,like it should have been a slow
burn for Doctor Doom.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
So in the first movie , instead of him being the big
bad, they could have brought inany other Fantastic Four bad guy
to in any other Fantastic Fourbad guy for them to fight at the
end, and could have had VictorVon Doom still conniving in the
background working up his othersort of mischievous shit that he
was doing.
And then they could haveprolonged him.

(51:28):
Instead of just being likeVictor Von Doom, he's slowly
turning bad in these five secondcutaways that you see of him,
and then all of a sudden, bam,he's a bad guy and then, oh,
they froze him in because theyused basic science.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
Yeah, chemistry 101.

Speaker 2 (51:44):
Eating metal and then rapidly cooling it, and this is
the same mistake they did, Ifeel, in the 2015 remake of Dr
Doom is they made him his skinmetal, instead of him getting
his mystically made armor Yepand combining the mystical made

(52:09):
armor with technology.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
Which is definitely a massive element as well,
because when Dr Doom made hismask in the comic books, he made
it uh with tibetan monks and itsort of plays to his hubris,
because he put that mask on.
He was already horribly scarred, but he put the mask on before
the metal had a chance to cooland scarred himself even more.
So he had this, this hubris inhim that he wanted this power so

(52:32):
badly that he couldn't wait forit, and then he put the mask on
.
That all plays into thecharacter of Doctor Doom, and
the way that I think they couldhave done it in this Fantastic
Four movie from 2005 is, likeyou said, they put in this
villain that isn't Doctor Doom,any other villain from Fantastic
Four, and in the background,doctor Doom is actually going
through trying to find ways tofix the thing that happened to
him, and one of the ways he doesthat is he goes back to the old

(52:53):
country and he uses the oldmagic of his Romani people, of
his Gypsy people, to try and fixit.

Speaker 2 (52:58):
Yeah, Instead of him squabbling with his board
members he could have been inthe mafia and he could have been
Developing that sorcery side ofhim Exactly, and he can be
doing that off to the side withthe whole goal of what his goal
is.
In the comics they could havehad the puppet master as the bad
guy, because they've got AliciaYep or even Mole man or

(53:19):
something like that.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
Yeah, but like.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
Alicia's already in it.

Speaker 1 (53:22):
Yeah, alicia Masters yeah.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
Yeah, her father's the puppet master.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
Yeah, who, for those that don't know, is the love
interest of Ben Grimm the thing,yeah, in the daughter of the
puppet master as well, anotherprominent Fantastic Four villain
.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
Yeah, they could have had him and that could have
because of the fact Ben wasstruggling so much with his new
look and they even got thedeleted scene of when Alicia
takes him to the gallery, thelittle art show, and she's made
sculptures of him.
It could have helped strengthenthe bond between Alicia and Ben,

(53:54):
because it could have been thatAlicia's father may not have
always been the best of personspeoples but then the fact that
Alicia is getting all smoochywith some big-ass rock dude
might have gone like nah, senthim over the edge.
Yeah, it'd been like no, I'msorry, sir, I'm going to make
you leave by force if necessary,and use his upturning skills.

(54:16):
And that's how they could havehad a bad guy.
And it could have been thatAlicia didn't really know about
the father's dark side of it andultimately they didn't have to
like.
Of course it was like such alie, I don't have to kill him,
or.
But they could stop him andAlicia could be thankful that
they stopped his father fromdoing anything to Heinz.
And that could strengthen thebond between Alicia and Ben,

(54:38):
because in the second moviethey're really shooed up.

Speaker 1 (54:42):
Yeah, exactly, we can definitely agree, at least for
our Devil's Avocado segment,that Doctor Doom hasn't really
ever been represented properly.
And you know what I think Marvelcasting Robert Downey Jr has
only complicated, introducinghim again.
I think that with theconnection to Iron man and Tony

(55:05):
Stark, we're not going to get atrue Doctor Doom in the sense
that you know he's going to bethat monarch, he's going to be
that technologically scientificmind and that sorcerer as well,
because dr doom can can gotoe-to-toe with, like steven
strange he's.
He's that kind of level ofsorcerer and he's that kind of
level of intellect that he cancompete with reed richards and

(55:27):
tony stark, like he is afundamental and powerful villain
of the m of the marvel marveluniverse.
And I just don't think thatwith them linking it to Robert
Downey Jr and therefore linkingit to the character of Tony
Stark, that they can really dothis character of Doctor Doom
justice, which is sad, because Ireally want to see him done
well.
I hope that he's done well andI hope I'm going to be eating my

(55:48):
words when this movie comes out, but I'm not holding high
expectations, brash.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
Yeah, to be honest, I couldn't see Julian McMahon
doing it again.
He'd be too old for the roleFor me personally, especially if
they're trying to, because Iunderstand, yes, they've got
their iconic Avengers.
We age man.
We're here Confront characters.
Don't age.
Yes, they can go on like Thorcan become Odin Thor, where he's
old and white and gray and he'sextremely powerful.

(56:16):
Now, that's fine.
They can keep Chris Hemsworthforever if they want to, as long
as he doesn't deteriorate toomuch.
I reckon and this might becontroversial or you might not
agree especially for the new one, kirby Kebbell, who played
Victor Von Doom in the 2015movie.
I think, no, I think him.
He managed to do that movie wasgreat.

(56:38):
How he looked horrible.
How that movie was also veryhorrible.
Oh, but poe kevill's victor vondoom, I thought, was really
good hates the government,thinks that they're all a bunch
of idiots that are justdestroying the world and
destroying the planet and thathe alone is the planet's savior.
Has that God complex?

(56:59):
Also, hay, three Riches because, sue Storm, I love that.
They keep that going.
They keep that going.
I saw a lot of similaritiesactually when I rewatched it
between the 2015 and 2005.
There were actually a lot ofsimilarities, but Toby Kibble as
Tick Von Doom, just before hegoes bad in the other world.
He met the high heart of themovie, until they lose him in

(57:22):
the void place.
He was, I think, a very, verygood Victor Von.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
Doom.
Character-wise I don't want himas Victor Von Doom, but I think
he is a good actor.
I wanted to see Mads Mikkelsen.
I think he would have been areally as Victor Von Doom, but I
think he is a good actor.
I wanted to see Mads Mikkelsen.
I think he would have been areally good Victor Von Doom
because he has the presence toplay this villainous character.
I think he has range, that he'sable to play a sorcerer and also
a sovereign and also ascientist, because I think he's

(57:51):
played those three roles inthree different movies before,
so combining them wouldn't behard.
And he's a similar sort of ageto Pedro Pascal, so it's
believable that they would haveattended university and college
together.
So that's who I would haveliked.
But I think that the main pointthat we can kind of take away
from this is through the castingof Robert Downey Jr we're not
going to get an authentic Doom.

(58:11):
But I also would like tosummarize and say that julian
mcmahon did a good job with whathe had.
He looked like doom and I thinkhe also, personality wise, was
he.
He did the best with what hehad like.
He showed moments of being ableto to pull it off, and I just

(58:32):
wish he was given something alittle bit better to to do that
with.

Speaker 2 (58:35):
I don't hate the casting in 2015.

Speaker 1 (58:38):
That casting was was.
It was different for the timeas well, and obviously there is
a lot of media interviews thathaven't really aged well in
terms of them asking questionsto Michael B Jordan and Kate
Mara about how their siblings.
Like that hasn't aged very wellbecause, you know, it can be
easily explained through oneline of dialogue in the movie.
I think I actually think thatMichael B Jordan played a good
Johnny Storm oh yeah, 100% Likehe's good for the role.

(58:59):
I think that the casting wise,this movie was well cast, even
Jamie Bell, who I believe gotsome pretty big flack for paying
Ben Grimm because he previouslyplayed Billy Elliot.
I think that's a really goodcasting and I really really like
Miles Teller as Reed Richards'Mr Fantastic.

Speaker 2 (59:18):
Yeah, and they play a young guy.
See, that's the thing I likeabout this kind of casting is
they were all young and even theactors at the time were young.
That, for me, young casting islongevity for those characters.
Mm-hmm.
Old casting is not longevityfor those characters.
Mm-hmm.
Old casting is not longevityfor those characters.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
It's worrying about the now, basically, which is my
concern about Pedro Pascal.
We might get into that a littlebit later as well.
Yeah, I think for our Devil'sAvocado segment.
We don't like Doom as they havebeen represented so far.
Yeah, doom, they need to payhomage more to his more comic
accurate, and we'll see if theydo that in the next one.

(59:59):
All right, and that has beenpart one, where we have
discussed the movie of FantasticFour that was made in 2005.
During this episode, you alsofound out that we have a
giveaway going, guys.
That is a family pass to themovies.
Anyone can enter internationalas well.
If you wanted to enter that,all you have to do is go to our

(01:00:20):
website,wwwbandcamportalspodcastcom and
join our mailing list, and thesecond thing you have to do is
hope that Brash and I can earn15 points this month on Marvel
Month in order to send you there.
Not five so far, five so far,just five so far.
Five so far, five so far, whichmeans 10 to go, which is very
doable because we're both veryknowledgeable.
But we want to thank you guys somuch for tuning in and

(01:00:41):
listening.
As always, it's been a pleasure.
Uh, I really love talking aboutthe fantastic four, guys.
We're going to do so again inpart two, so make sure you tune
into that as well.
We're going to be diving deepinto the characters.
We're going to be looking atreed richards, we're going to be
looking at johnny storm, suestorm and also ben grim and the
actors that played them in the2005 movie we're going to be
talking about, if they wereportrayed well, what the actor's

(01:01:02):
performance was like, what thechemistry was like, and also our
hopes for fantastic four firststeps with these new characters
that comes out in 2025.
So once again, guys, we'd loveit if you would share this
podcast with a friend.
It's the best way to get ourmaterial on the ears of lots of
new people, and we love to growour community.
This is Aaron signing out.
Rash signing out.

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Fantastic Four (2005) Part One - Exploring Doctor Doom's Marvel Legacy. From Julian McMahon to Robert Downey Jr

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Fantastic Four (2005) Part One - Exploring Doctor Doom's Marvel Legacy. From Julian McMahon to Robert Downey Jr