Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1990) - Part Two: Raphael's Rage and Donatello's Development. Splinter the Master of Mentoring, Family and Ninjitsu! - The Fandom Portals Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
Hello everybody.
It's Aaron here from thePhantom Portals podcast, joined
as always by my co-host Brash.
What's going on?
Cowabunga dude, oh Cowabungawe're back again.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
I prefer Cowabunga.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
We're back again for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
from 1990.
This one was directed by SteveBarron, by writers Kevin Eastman
and Peter Laird.
They were actually the creatorsof the Teenage Mutant Ninja
Turtles.
It's starring Judith Hogue andElias Cochez as April O'Neill
and Casey Jones respectively.
This one was our portalist pick, which means our community
picked for us to do this one,more specifically by Oriole Seth

(00:46):
.
Thank you from our threadscommunity.
You suggested this one and ourcommunity voted it as the one
they wanted us to do.
So the teenage mutant Ninjaturtles is a movie that features
four teenage mutant Ninjaturtles, believe it or not, that
emerged from the shadows toprotect New York city from a
gang of criminal ninjas.
Now, in this episode, we'regoing to be talking about the

(01:07):
characters of Raphael andDonatello.
More specifically, in ourPopcorn Perspectives segment.
We're going to be doing a realdeal segment and we're going to
be talking about our mostvaluable takeaways.
So let's get into it right now.
Our Popcorn Perspectivessegment is where the hosts take
one character from the mediaeach and analyze the development
and growth throughout the movie.
We express to our co-host howthis character should have been

(01:29):
viewed in your opinion and themeaningful connections the
character arc has to the themesor the plot of the movie Brash.
Before we get started on ourspecific turtles, let's have a
little bit of a talk about theturtles in general.
So all four of them puttogether.
They're very different, aren'tthey?

Speaker 2 (01:44):
Yes, but I have opinions, yes, or thoughts which
will lead into my topic.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
Very good.
Okay, so my favorite thingabout the turtles is so
everybody knows, I'm a classroomteacher.
A lot of people might ask youknow, to get to know somebody,
you know what's your star sign,or they might ask you what's
your favorite color.
But one thing I always askwho's your favorite turtle
Students, exactly what's yourfavorite turtle?
And the reason I ask that isbecause I can get a really good

(02:12):
read on what that kid is likebased on the turtle that they
enjoy.
So if they're a kid that reallylikes Donatello, for example,
they might be into gaming.
They might be into you know,and they might be very, very
kind as well, becauseDonatello's very very kind.
If they like Michelangelo,they're obviously into a little
bit of fun, like there's justsome psychological,
skateboarding, surfing, thatsort of sporty sort of stuff.

Speaker 2 (02:33):
If they're Leonardo, more serious probably Leadership
orientation.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
Likes taking charge or captain a football team or
something like that, and thenRaphael, football team or
something like that.
Uh, and then rafael, obviouslyyou've got all your violence.
Yeah, you're just just just,yeah, bad apples, yeah, all
those kids that need a littlebit of a bit of support and uh,
yeah, or you know, conversely aswell, sometimes rafael is the,
the character that sensitivekids like as well.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
Yeah, as I say like, like is like the ones that um
like have that out of, liketough out of shell, but uh,
stuff in the middle, yeah,exactly so, yeah, they all have
their different kind of, andthat's the appeal of the turtles
, is that they're so different.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
They all have their different skills and strengths
and kids are drawn on, peopleare drawn to a different one.
So it's very good to get toknow somebody if you want to
talk to them about theirfavorite turtle.
So, brash, who's your favoriteturtle?
Mine's actually Donatello.
Oh man, my little brother,dylan, shout out Dylan, how you
going buddy and my son, riverloved Donatello.
Yep, and you know what, growingup I thought he was the least

(03:29):
popular turtle.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
Yeah, really Well.
I mean, in a way, I can sort ofalso see that who's your
favourite.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
My favourite turtle growing up always was Leonardo.
The way that I liked Leonardowas because he had the best
weapon, he was obviously incharge of the turtles and he was
very morally correct.
I have a very strong sense ofjustice.
Whether that's good or bad,that's just where I align.
But since I've become a man,and.

(03:57):
I'm watching the Teenage MutantNinja Turtles.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
I actually like Raphael a lot better yeah, he
has that sort of and they doshow it in a lot of the shows
where he goes from, like he's atthe heart at Shelby's probably
the most sensitive of the lot.
Like out of all of them he'sprobably the most prone to cry
yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
Well, that's that's why I like him too, because
looking at him, I can see thatyou know, I have a pretty
sensitive temperament and healso has a pretty sensitive
temperament, and the reason thathe seems so aggressive
outwardly is because he has alot of emotions and he's trying
to deal with them in the bestway that he can.
So that's my transition with.
My favorite sort of turtle wasLeonardo, now Raphael, and I

(04:33):
know psychologically why I wasdrawn to them too.

Speaker 2 (04:36):
Yeah, leonardo has to be like.
He was always my secondfavorite.
And then Raph.
I hated Mikey Really.
I thought he was just annoying.
He's never been my favorite,but I never hated him.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
I hated Mikey really.
I thought he was just annoying.
He's never been my favouritebut I never hated him.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
I wouldn't say I hated him.
He was just my least favouritebecause I thought he was like I
thought he was more annoyingthan anything else yeah, he was
a a liability.
He was loud, he was a liabilityto the team and that as because
we've both been watching BlackClover lately.
Yeah, aster's the same.

Speaker 1 (04:59):
I can.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
I'm struggling through it.
I've already watched it allbefore, but I'm struggling
through it again.
But I'm like, oh my God, it'sjust how annoying and loud after
it is always yeah, exactly, andI think it's just gotten even
more for me since I've gottenolder and gotten grumpier.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
That like loud noises just piss me off.
Yeah, in terms of Michelangelo,when they're representing him
in a Teenage Mutant NinjaTurtles movie or TV show, there
is definitely a fine line, andI've watched some
representations of Mikey wherehe is just absolutely annoying.
Can't stand him, yeah.
But then there are some timeswhere he is just enough to break
the serious tone of whateverthey're trying to do.

Speaker 2 (05:33):
And I find that in the 2003, the Teenage Mutant
Ninja Turtles show that onethere.
That's when I actually was like, oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:42):
He was a spot on.
I reckon he was really good.
Yeah, yeah, if you're going towatch any Turtles, guys go out
and watch that TMNT from 2023.
And this one, in my opinion,the 1990 version of Teenage
Mutant Ninja Turtles.
But we have digressed.
We must have digressed.
We have digressed.
This is our Popcorn Perspectivesegment, and Brash has picked
Donatello to talk about in termsof his character arc, and I

(06:04):
have picked Raphael.
So, brash, would you like totake us away with Donatello?

Speaker 2 (06:06):
So Donatello, he's the well, I would say, the most
more intelligent tech savvy, theturtle, hence why?
As you said in our last episodehow he's got the stick?
Because Splinter Woman seems tobe more simplistic, because his
fancy gadgets and everythinglike that.
They don't do that in thismovie.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
They don't.
I actually don't see him with agadget or inventing or on a
computer at all.
The closest we get to it is themiddle scene on the farm where
he is helping Casey Jones fixthe vehicle.

Speaker 2 (06:33):
And he has no idea what he's doing.
Like to be fair enough, they'relike teenagers, but
realistically, if you were totake Donatello out of that movie
, I don't think anything wouldchange.

Speaker 1 (06:43):
I kind of agree with you there.
He's definitely the mostunderdeveloped turtle.
I think he and Mikey sort ofsit together a lot because
they're almost the lighter toneyeah and that's my second thing.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
I love the fact that in this they seem very teenage.
All of them seem very teenageand I love that because they're
meant to be teenage ninjaturtles, not 30-something year
old men playing teenagers, and II love that fact and it comes
off like in some of the childishantics that they get up to and
everything like that and the waythey speak and everything like
that and their cockiness andeverything.

(07:15):
It's just all perfect.
But I feel like Donatello isleft because there's no specific
and I think I think it might be.
Tello is left because there'sno specific and I think it might
be because of the sort of thetime that it was made, the movie
was made and probablyconstraints on length and budget
and budget.

(07:36):
They couldn't really do anysort of thing.
Like techie, Realistically,when he's helping Casey fix that
car.
Donatello, realistically, hebuilt their turn on the bill
Like he should be able to fixthat in a second.
He should go get some paperclips and some chewing gum and
turn that thing into a rocketship.

Speaker 1 (07:51):
Yeah, he's um, that's his special talent, yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
He's, he's the MacGyver of the group.
He like he can turn.
He lived in a sewer scrap andmakes a supercomputer and they
don't do any of that in um likeyes, they're.
All they really had to work offwas the comics and the um, the
cartoon which had some techieaspects, I think even in the

(08:17):
cartoon he was quite, he wasquite tech savvy, but they
probably didn't.
There wasn't really like in thelater ones where they had their
big turtle computer,supercomputer and all the
hoverboards and everything likethat, and the shell phones and
the shell phones yeah, thegoggles Like.

Speaker 1 (08:31):
He was always the one in the later cartoons that
carried the sports bag full ofgear.
Full of gear.
Yeah, all the others wereobviously travel light because
they were obviously offensive ordefensive in mind for the Ninja
Turtles mission, but he alwayscarried a bag of stuff.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
So yeah, I understand that, but I just felt like he
just didn't get to do Donniethings.
Yeah, he didn't get to be him,he was just like a secondary.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
Michelangelo?
Yeah, I think so too.
He was the one thatMichelangelo reacted to
Michelangelo's jokes.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
Yeah, and Michelangelo and.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
Donnie were there to offset the tension that was
there between Leonardo andRaphael.
I think, like they alwaysportrayed Donatello as the
smarter, more nerdy turtle, andthey did kind of have a tiny
little moment of that at thevery start, when they're trying
to riff off their newcatchphrase and they're saying,
like you know, to make fun ofhim, use some like flashy word

(09:21):
and they're like what?
he's like bossa nova, and thenit's like bossa nova, and then
they turn around and make fun ofhim, and then it's like chevy
nova, chevy nova.
It's almost like you know.
He's just like excellent, yeah,it's like how the you know, the
nerd of the group doesn'treally get the social context
and doesn't really get the likethe in words at the time, so
they turn around.
The only really thing that yousee, that develops his character

(09:42):
a little bit in this movie it'smore making fun of him because
he's a nerd, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:45):
The only thing that shows him as a nerd is him being
made fun of.
Yeah, so that was my take onDonnie in the movie, which was a
little bit disappointingBecause when I was re-watching
it again, I was like it'sDonatello, sorry, not Donate's
Leonardo, raphael, michelangeloand Michelangelo too, yeah, yeah

(10:08):
, yeah, because, like him andMikey were always together,
buddied up and they like, like,when they had the dancing scene
with the tequila, they were theones dancing together doing the
tequila, while, um, this is oneof the things that freaked me
out the most was Leonardo, whichis just sitting there.
I'm like, guy, stop, that'sweird.

(10:30):
And then Ralph went off to seethe movie.
But, yeah, it was just alwaysMichelangelo doing Michelangelo
things and then Donatello sortof being like that nerdy younger
brother that has to try andfollow behind the cool and agree
with all the cool things thatthe cool brother's doing,
because you know he doesn't wantto seem like the nerd and yeah.

(10:51):
So that was a littledisappointing for me personally.
But, um, because, yeah,donatello's my favorite, I love
Donatello, but yeah, that was mytake on that, which was, yeah,
disappointing.
I loved the fact that Donatellofor me in that movie he wasn't
Donatello.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
Yeah, and I can see that and I think that you know
it might have something to dowith the budget constraints this
being only made on a $13million budget and most of it
being geared towards the suitsand the animatronics and hiring
all the actors to actually bringthose turtles to life, all the
actors to actually bring thoseturtles to life.
Maybe they didn't have enoughtime to develop his character
because it's only a 94-minutemovie or something like that,
and you know we have spokenbefore about how movies that

(11:31):
have multiple characters find ithard to develop a lot of them
significantly.
It'd be interesting to see the,because I actually have never
seen Secret of the Ooze, but Ihave obviously seen Teenage
Mutant Ninja.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
Turtles 3.
I've seen more, but honestly,honestly, I couldn't tell you
what happens in the Secret ofthe Earth yeah, I think I have
seen it, but I don't remember ityeah, maybe, maybe he gets more
development in that space there.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
but I agree with everything that you said, brash,
I think he is.
He's not the Donatello that Iknow and love, and you might say
that the things we love aboutDonatello developed in the later
cartoons and movies and stuff,but he's definitely that way
inclined in the comic books too.
He's the tech savvy turtle.
He's the one.
That's the thing, and you know,all of the action figures that
came out in the eighties and thenineties always had Donatello

(12:12):
with various different tech gear, so it was definitely part of
his character that was missingfrom this movie.
Absolutely agree In terms ofhis arc, usually in this part we
talk about his arc.

Speaker 2 (12:31):
He didn't really have an arc.
No, he didn't, he was justalways.
He was just always the turtle.
That was just there.
That if someone needed someoneto reply off, like have a reply
from, or just someone there's,like if someone's to acknowledge
what's being said into furtherprogression of the story, he was
there.
Yeah, but other than that hedidn't really have any sort of
plot points.
And mikey's almost the same.
But Mikey has that comic reliefsort of role, purpose, yeah and
purpose in the whole movie,because I feel like, out of all

(12:52):
of them, it's more aboutLeonardo and Raphael, which
usually is always the case.
I find, when it comes toTeenage Mutant Ninja Turtles,
it's always Raph and Leo as themains.
Well, they sold the most toys,true, well, because they get all
the.
They get all the like, all thescreen time, um, but like, like,

(13:12):
I'm saying like and they'realways the ones that are
fighting over who gets to be theleader.
And then Mikey's always the onetrying to cool the heads
between Leo and Raph and they'realways like Donatello's, just
like even in some of the laterones, like they're all fighting

(13:33):
and Mikey's trying to break themup and he's off on his computer
doing computer-y shit.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
And not even involved in that sort of thing at all.

Speaker 1 (13:41):
I think it's funny that if we you know how we were
talking about Donatello beingthe sort of nerdy outsider of
this crew of turtles Makes sense.
Well, in the latest one, mutantMayhem, you see Raph, donnie
and also Mikey banding togethera lot more and poking more fun
at Leo, because he's the onethat's always saying we need to
follow what Splinter's tellingus.
So it's funny how that culturalshift has happened over the last

(14:01):
35 years, where the turtlesrepresent the teenagers, where
you know being being a nerd orbeing tech savvy like that it is
kind of ostracizing, but nowit's like following the rules, I
guess you could say, and whatthe adults tell you, and not
wanting to sneak out at nightand using your phone past curfew
is is the thing that is yeah,so like the more straight laced,
serious one now is one thatgets made fun of.

Speaker 2 (14:23):
Yeah, like sort of like in the Marvel movies how
they all make fun of CaptainAmerica for like, not like,
swearing and swearing and notswearing and the like, and being
the stiff straight-laced person.

Speaker 1 (14:32):
Yeah, I think that's an interesting cultural change.
But in terms of Donatello inthis movie, I absolutely agree
no arc no-transcript the scenewith the with the car, because

(14:53):
you only see his, his left armand his head, yeah, so maybe
that was actually just thoseparts of the the turtle there.
All right, let's go into, uh,my, my turtle, which is Raphael.
So, as we spoke about, raphaelis definitely the most
hot-headed, he's the mostemotionally impulsive, he's the
most aggressive.
Anger is something that isn'tsecond nature to him.

(15:15):
He kind of revolves around thatspace of feeling, a feeling
reacting to a feeling, and he'salways really presented as the
turtle that is cruel, but cool,but crude, is what they say in
the 1987 cartoon.
He's exemplified by a strugglewith internal conflict and
that's how we meet Raphael andhe's always the one that's kind
of alone from the other threebrothers and Splinter actually

(15:37):
says this in the movie where hesays you know, anger clouds the
mind turned inwards.
It is an unconquerable enemy.
You are unique among yourbrothers but you choose to face
this enemy alone.
But as you face it, do notforget them.
So he's always pitted as theone that's by himself.
We see him putting the trenchcoat and hat on at the start of
the movie where he's going outto see various different movies

(15:58):
when he is angry at something.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
on fact, though, the movie that when he comes out and
it's the creatures movie thatwas actually going to be a bad
suit, cause at the time Batmanwas just coming out the 89.

Speaker 1 (16:10):
Batman.

Speaker 2 (16:11):
So there was going to be a reference to him watching,
of going and seeing a Batmanmovie, the Batman movie coming
out and saying cool car shitcostume yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:19):
Yeah Well, a lot of those scenes were actually shot
in New York, but with with that,it actually exemplifies one of
the times, one of the many timesin the movie where Raph
actually goes out on his ownbecause he's feeling a big
feeling, Like he's feeling angryor he's feeling upset or he's
lost his sigh.
He's angry with himself.
He's angry with himself, veryself-critical.

(16:43):
He's the one that has a lot ofthe dialogue scenes with
Splinter and he's also the onethat probably has the most
growth through the movie.
In the second act of the movieit's culminating to the point
where he goes and does angrygymnastics out on the roof and
is spotted by Casey Jones andthat's what instigates his
spectacular beatdown.
That actually causes him to beindisposed for the middle part
of the movie.
It's where the Turtles reallylearn okay, we need to actually

(17:03):
gather around Raphael, we needto help support him in his
internal conflicts that he'shaving.
And it's also where Raphaellearns that anger isn't a
strength when it's leftunchecked or when it is
outwardly expressed in anuncontrolled way.
Strength comes from lessons ofemotional intelligence and being

(17:25):
able to, you know, bevulnerable, show that raw
emotion, but also realize thathis isolation and refusal to
listen to his brothers is adanger for himself and his
family as well.
So when he learns that, he'sthen able to come up with
different sort of outlets forhis anger.

Speaker 2 (17:42):
Speaking on wrath, how they just threw him in that
absolutely hilarious.
He's got like one arm hangingout oh yeah, in the recovery
position all one arm hanging out, he's like legs all twisted up
and shit.
And then they come in and likegets a cup of water and just
like sprinkle it on his arm it'slike the dude's, like like he'd
wake up with like every part ofhim being sore from the way he

(18:04):
is positioned.
It is horrid.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
And you know, there's also the scene where he falls
from the roof through the glassonto the antiques shop floor and
you actually see him bounce alittle bit and they come over
and comfort him and they pushdown on him and you can tell
that that's like a rubbermannequin and not really the
actor.
But think that through thatit's definitely like a bit a bit
comical and 90s aged, you mightsay as well but no, don't put

(18:29):
him in a better thing.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
Like I know he's a turtle and needs water for some
reason, but like the thing is,like none of the guys you don't
see any other guys speakingwater themselves but um, yeah,
oh, that made me.
That made me giggle a bit whenI saw that again.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
But in that scene and know, when he wakes up and then
ends up reconciling withLeonardo, who he's constantly at
odds with, that's when hestarts to, you know, accept his
family.
He learns not to suppress hisemotions but he learns to
channel them constructively andat the end of the movie he's not
really an emotion like.
He hasn't lost those emotions.
He's still definitely asensitive sort of person, but he
is.
He is leaning on those that arearound him and he's also, uh,

(19:06):
learnt some skills and sometrust in his family to be able
to be himself, show thosevulnerable aspects of him and
channel them into strength thatway, instead of isolating
himself, being angry and thenlashing out and being thrown
into a bathtub in a veryunceremonious way.
But, yeah, I think that thatbiggest thing for him is by the
end of the movie he learns thatelement of trust which is his

(19:28):
growth through the film as well.
So he definitely goes throughthe most and that's similar
through a lot of Teenage Mutant,ninja Turtles stories, isn't it
?

Speaker 2 (19:35):
Raph's usually the one.
It's always Raph and Leofighting and it's always Raph
coming to terms with his angerissues.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
Yep His issues and in the 2007 animated movie they
actually physically fight on therooftop, you know.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah, because Raph is dressed up in his Nightwalker.
Yeah, Nightwalker.

Speaker 1 (19:56):
Something like that, yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:57):
And get up, which is really cool.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
It's really good, Like that movie's actually not
too bad.
That movie.
That's one of my favouriteTeenage Mutant Ninja Turtles,
yeah, and also I'm pretty sureLeonardo is voiced by Yuri
Lowenthal in that movie as well,yeah.
Great voice actor, amazing.
But yeah, his arc in this inthe 1990 version is probably my
favorite part of the movie and Ialso love his friendship with

(20:19):
Casey Jones and how thatdevelops as well.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
Because they've always been the closest friends.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
those two Because Jones and how that developed as
well, because they've alwaysbeen the closest friends, those
two, because they're very, verysimilar, yeah, and yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
They're both children that use aggression yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
Yeah, and I think that's why he's popular to a lot
of like young boys, because notonly do they see a little bit
of themselves in him, but theyalso can see like the way that
he presents strength.
Yeah, I guess you could say andyou might like, looking back
now, because he was the toughestturtle and he was the one that

(20:52):
was outwardly angry a lot of thetime you might liken it like to
the incredible hulk, where,where the hulk uses his anger as
an outlet and then goes andsmashes stuff which, if we're
looking at a psychologicalperspective and the way we're
sort of trying to parent kidsand teach kids, like that's not
very constructive.
You can't really do that likeif you get angry, you have rage
rooms and I was gonna say youhave rooms for that, yeah yeah,

(21:13):
but you know, in general,generally speaking, it's not
really the way that you dealwith anger.
However, the way that rafaeldeals with anger in a lot of
these stories, where he he doeshave those outbursts and he does
make mistakes, but he alwayscomes back to his family and
always tries to, you know,internally work on it through
his, uh, emotional understandingof himself and others, that's
sort of more like a healthy sortof push.
It's funny, though, because,like when you, when you're

(21:33):
emotionally heightened, you youhave two, two options, like when
you're feeling emotionallystressed, you know what those
two options are let out, but letup.
Well, yeah, you can do that,like fight or flight, basically,
so he can fight verbally,outburst with his brothers, and
then flight, which is run away,which is what he does all the
time.
Yeah, so he will go and avoid,and you know, you can take some
time to reflect and time to takeit in and process what you're

(21:57):
feeling.
But there's also thatreconciliation that has to
happen afterwards and thatunderstanding which he never
gets, because he always getsbeaten the crap out of by
puttin' inches of Casey Joneswhich is kind of like a
consequence I guess a naturalconsequence to his inappropriate
outbursts of anger.
He always gets beaten up.
Consequence to hisinappropriate outbursts of anger
, he always gets beaten up.
So that's the lesson for rafaeland why he ended up going
through the arc that he did.

(22:17):
All right, let's get to our realdeal segment.
All right, this is our realdeal segment, where we randomly
select a criteria or lens to theview the movie through.
We discuss its elements withthe intention of finding out
whether it can be ratedpositively or negatively.
Each week we name thesecriteria as positive or negative

(22:38):
, with a fun element of thefocus.
Movie topics can range fromcinematography, character
development, all the way tovillains and themes.
Good rating this week brash,cowabunga, cowabunga man.
And then bad rating is latepizza, never pay for late pizza.
Let's generate our first realdeal segment, remembering that
good rating is cowabunga, thenbad rating is late pizza, never
pay for late pizza.
Let's generate our first realdeal segment, remembering that
good rating is cowabunga and badrating is late pizza.
All right.
So our first one is thedialogue.

(22:59):
I might start with the dialoguehere.
Brash, this is probably myleast favorite aspect of the
film.
Same yeah, and the.
You know the dialogue, I know,but do you think that's because
we're out of time in this.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
Well not really because I sort of grew up on
this.
Realistically it is a littlebit before us because we were
born in 1990 when it came out.
But I grew up on an old 87cartoon.

Speaker 1 (23:34):
And I found some of the lines.
Just one one is, yeah, quitefit.
Yeah, they're overly overexaggerated and obviously trying
to pay on that, that teenagesort of surfer vibe that's made
famous by the ninja turtlescartoon in 87.
And you know, I don't thinkit's.
It doesn't feel organic, whichis funny to say about teenage
mutant ninja turtles.
But you want the dialogue toflow and tell a story and feel
organic.
But a lot of the one-linerswere put in there for either

(23:55):
comedic effect or to show thatlike radical sort of language
that these people use.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
I remember because I got most of it.
But I remember there was likeone scene at the farmhouse and I
think it's either Mikey, Ithink it was Mikey said a joke
and so everyone was sort of likesmoking and giving it a night.
I'm like I get it.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
Yeah, that's my fear about a lot of the movies that
are coming out now that arehaving pop culture references
that are relevant to theaudience today.
When you're talking about theway that they hold up in 35
years' time, obviously there'sjokes that they make about.
I think it's Chaney was one ofthe impressions that Mikey did.
That's probably absolutelyhilarious in the 90s.

(24:34):
That's lost on me.
And then some of the you cantell it's sort of geared towards
adult, because when they'retalking about April and Casey's
romance he says you know, see,it's exactly like Moonlighting,
which is a TV show that wasaround during the 90s starring
Bruce Willis.
It was like a romantic TV show.
That's the line.
I didn't get the Moonlightingone.

Speaker 2 (24:51):
The Moonlighting one, I was like a, like a romantic
TV show, that's the line.
I didn't get the moonlightingone.
The moonlighting one, I waslike, sorry, moonlighting, I'm
like I don't know.
I didn't know about TV showuntil just now, but like
moonlighting, I'm likemoonlighting.
It's just like working aseparate job at night time.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
Yeah, yeah yeah, it's a TV show, that's the thing.
That's what I mean.
Like there's a lot of 90sreferences in it, but I'm sure
it was good at the time.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
What I heard was moonlighting as in.
Moonlighting as in.
You do a second job after yourjob at nighttime.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
But then you know, on the flip side of that they had
some of that like one liners andnow out of date 90s pop culture
references, but then, throughthe middle act, dove into these
elements of exposition Like shewas writing a journal in her
12th grade formal, you know, theturtles are feeling so remorse.
They are four again, but notfull and all that kind of stuff.

(25:42):
Like you know, it goes fromthat like tubular and excellent
and all this teenage sort ofstuff, and then it gets to To
like old English Overlyexpository from April.
Old English ink and quillwriting and it's almost like you
know they are specificallydoing that so we can get the
exposition that we need, whichdoesn't feel natural in a story
like this.

Speaker 2 (25:59):
Yeah, so when they had Splinter talking to the
young kid, that was greatbecause it was.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
Master Splinter sharing wisdom, all fathers love
their children, or somethinglike that.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
And he's talking to me and when he comes back there
the second time and he actuallystarts talking about the turtles
and everything like that.

Speaker 1 (26:19):
Yeah, that's the beauty of Master Splinter in
this one Splinter, MasterSplinter, even though he looks
oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
Like we talked about the turtles being kind of
uncanny, he looks like he's beenthrough it.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
I do like that about this movie, though, that I do
like that about this movie,though, that he looks a little
bit different and he looks likehe's been through it and he's
got that wet appearance all thetime like a sewer rat.
I love that, um, but one thingabout Splinter a Splinter
character in a Teenage MutantNinja Turtles always has to be
wise and warm.
They're my two musts, forSplinter has to be wise and he
has to be warm Not warm as in awarm hug and caring.
And when he's going throughthat dialogue with Danny, I

(26:51):
think, because he's that kind ofmentor, he's warm and he's he's
, you know, wise.
It comes off as like a naturalconversational teaching moment
because it fits the character.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
Yeah, it's the same when he's talking to April, yep,
when April first wakes up andhe's able to calm her down and
and Raphael as well.

Speaker 1 (27:05):
After he comes back he's beat down with with Casey
Jones.
He sort of talks to him andthen you know you go into the
origin story with the he's likeI lost my side and he's like let
it go let it go.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Yeah, it's fine, we'll get another one, yeah
chill.

Speaker 1 (27:18):
Yeah, he's always.
He's always that way inclined.
But I feel like the dialoguewith Splinter was good, but yeah
, for me this is a bad.
This is.

Speaker 2 (27:27):
I have to agree, late pizza, like some of the lines
were really cool, like theinitial, like the first time
where they're like, whereDonnie's trying to fit in,
excellent, excellent.

Speaker 1 (27:37):
I think that was a Bill and Ted reference.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yeah, and like that, like that whole, that whole sort
of first part I thought wasreally good, them getting the
pizza or anything, I thoughtthat whole into the actual movie
and then had to add context forthe movie is where I think they
slipped, because they're tryingto add context to like the
because it's such a dark movie,which I don't like, which is, I

(28:01):
think, another reason why thedialogue failed is because it's
such a dark, heavy movie,although I think the director
sort of leaned it towards thatway.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
But then you've got these lighthearted characters
that are all like surfy and yeah, mikey never really pulled out
of the, the um, he never pulledout of the like the, the campy,
quippy comic relief dialogue youknow like, and that's and and
the whole movie turned dark andserious.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
And then you got these teenagers that are still
trying to be teenagerish andthey're trying to make, they're
trying to explain all theseserious events that are
happening and about their fatherfigure and mentor possibly
being dead or murdered or takenand they're all losing hope and
everything like that, and thisjust doesn't quite translate
because they're still makingjokes over April and you know la

(28:47):
laing at her and yeah, and theonly serious scenes you have is
like the bomb fire, like thecampfire scene, when they were
like do you see the turtles?

Speaker 1 (28:56):
the tears, tears and you know, someone queued the
dropper on that one.
It's just like cue the dropperit's like tears.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
But then you look at their faces and they still look
like horrifyingly fucking happyyeah, because there's must be a
sad function on the animatronicsthe only reason why you can
probably tell they're sad isbecause they're going and then
there's like a teardrop andyou're like, oh, they're sad.
If they didn't have that tear,I would have noticed.

Speaker 1 (29:24):
Alright, so you're writing a bad pizza.
Bad pizza, alright, sweet.
Bad pizza for the dialogue.
Let's get our next one for ourreal deal segment.
All right, our next one that wehave generated is the action
sequences.
So this is where we're talkingabout, like practical stunts and
the the martial arts sectionsof the movie.
I think I read somewhere thatthe martial arts sections were
all performed by the stuntmen,in the suits, obviously, and

(29:46):
they filmed it at a slower speedand filmed it up, so it looked
like you can tell a movie faster?

Speaker 2 (29:51):
yeah, in a few a few of the scenes.

Speaker 1 (29:52):
Yeah, in a few of the scenes you could definitely
tell, especially one whereDonatello was in the antique
store and spitting on his shelland knocking people over, and
another one when they were doinga lot of the roundhouse kicks.
You could definitely tell thatthey were sped up as well.
That being said, these suits Ibelieve they made a secondary
more fluidly and as a result ofthat, they were able to get some

(30:13):
of the combat scenes off.
One thing I did like about itis sometimes in a low budget
movie you don't see a lot ofpeople fighting on the screen at
once, whereas in this one wegot some pull away shots where
we got to see a lot of theturtles fighting shell to shell.
You got a different sort ofview on various different
settings and scenes where youcould see different parts of the
fights happening in differentareas and times.

(30:33):
I have a real soft spot for thiskind of combat style because it
reminds me of the early PowerRangers stuff, which I
absolutely loved, and the earlyPower Rangers movie, which I
loved as well.
So I think for me they'reslower, they're exaggerated.
I'm probably going to give thisa cowabunga with a smell of
late pizza for me.
I think there were some goodelements and some bad elements.
I think there were some goodelements and some bad elements.

(30:54):
I think that overcame a lot ofthe like.
The fight choreography was good.
I think they overcame a lot ofthe technical aspects of having
to fight in these cumbersomeobjects that they were using to
to make it look like you know.
That were okay.
My biggest pet peeve with itwas I was waiting for the end
scene where they're facing theshredder, for the end scene
where they're facing theShredder, where the Turtles all
learn that they're strongertogether, because that's
Splinter's ultimate lessonthey're stronger together when

(31:16):
they fight as a team, and thenyou know they go at him one by
one one at a time one in, one in, and then you know, eventually
it's Splinter that comes andsaves the day.
I think it would have beenbetter for me as a moral kind of
lesson.
If they all sort of, I'll say,jumped him, it's not very
honorable, but there's four onone and they fight better as a
family.
So I would have loved to seethat, but I didn't.

(31:37):
So for me it's a cowabunga witha hint of late pizza.
What about you?

Speaker 2 (31:42):
So I agree with everything you said, and
especially the Power Rangersthing.
Like I sort of like, oh, thiskicks, they miss punches, and
then the bad guys like theirpunches going past and then
they're like a split secondlater they're like, oh, I got
hit.
And then they do the wholetwisted move and jump out of the
way thing which is hit.
Like watching it I was like,yeah, but for me I have to
actually give you a bad pizza,you mean a late pizza there's no

(32:04):
bad pizza just late pizza thatchubbies for me.
Yeah, I have to agree with whata lot of the critics said about
it, that there was too muchviolence in it.
Instead of them taking on 20people in this crowded room with
those four turtles in thosesuits, just have I don't know

(32:25):
five, six and actually have acombat instead of just a
mishmash of just random making aswing and then someone's like
just someone being there andhaving to jump out of the way
saying thinking they got hit,like instead of that, like if
they were more focused andbecause like you got tatsu, like
tatsu is like one of their bighenchmen, having like a

(32:45):
one-on-one with him or like aone having like, even even
having like, say, tatsu and twoothers that are similar strength
to Tatsu in a way, and havingthose three fight the Turtles in
more of a personal fight, Ithink would have been more
beneficial.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Or even just a Raph and Tatsu showdown, which then
led to him being thrown throughthe roof.
Even that would have been good,instead of him being jumped by
10 to 12 foot ninjas.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
But that fight I didn't really mind that much
because there was the one turtleagainst a lot of guys, and that
, not for me, is fine.
But when they had all fourtrying to maneuver, though,
especially when they're insidethe building trying to maneuver
all those guys around in thatone space, it just become
cluttered and claustrophobic.
You could, you could see more,the more prominently you could

(33:34):
see the power rangers fighting,where you could tell that he
kicked and was nowhere near thebad guy and the bad guy went
flying.
It was just so prominent, Ithink from back back though.
Back then, though, that wasprobably more, I think that was
normalized.

Speaker 1 (33:48):
Yeah, that was the way it was.
And you know, the foot, thefoot, ninjas seemed to be
ineffective and almost likelaughable in the fact that we're
calling these things ninjas andthey're literally running
towards turtles and gettingkicked away.
It was more for the effect ofit, I'd say.

Speaker 2 (34:01):
And they're meant to be all like trains by Shredder
and Tatsu, and for them toactually wear the mask, they
have to pass a certain sort oflike, sort of like your belt
grade Initiation yeah.
So they've gone from like beingthe white belt all the way to
black belt, to the white withyellow tips.
Yeah, they're like meant to havegone to like from being just

(34:23):
kids on the street white beltsto black belt ninjas and they're
pretty much just all useless.
Like the putty men from ninjasfrom, like the putty men from
from uh, perringers.
But, um, yeah, no, for me.
I I didn't like, I think forthe combat scenes.
I sort of fast forwardedthrough the well, the combat
because I was like eh, boringthe combat scenes in a movie.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
You really want to build tension yeah so you want
them to sort of right ebb andflow in in tension until it gets
to a sort of critical masspoint, and I don't think these
fights were really choreographedin that way to do that story
wise.
I think they were choreographedto show flips and kicks and
awesome stuff which is veryreminiscent of hong kong cinema,
martial arts movies, which iswhat this was funded and backed
by as well, and they're alwaystrying to like.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
They're always saying quips and one-liners throughout
the fights.
That's a comic comic book.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
Thing.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
Yeah, but the thing is it was so drowned out from
the actual amount of shit goingon on the screen that I couldn't
even tell you one clip thatthey came up with when they're
fighting, because all it was itwas just an overload of just
people on the screen randomlygetting flung around everywhere.
And then one of the guys wouldsay something like what did you
say?
And like it just drowned outwith all like the other, like

(35:32):
all the music, the fightingeffects and the fighting noises,
yeah, it all sort of justdrowns out like a mishmash of
various different elements whichreally left the combat feeling
ineffective is what you'resaying, pretty much.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
Or in other words, late pizza, late pizza, yeah,
okay, all right, so for the nextone let's get it up.
And the next one that we haveup is the tone of the movie.
So the word unique comes tomind for me.
So they obviously had twodifferent IPs to draw from when
they were making this movie.
They had the 1987 cartoon andthey had the comic books and
they're completely differenttonally to each other.

(36:07):
And I think Steve Barron, whenhe was directing this, obviously
wanted to do a darker elementto this movie in terms of the
dark themes in this movie wherethere is elements of torture,
there's kids smoking, it'sbasically showing a predatory
kind of figure creating a gangout of wayward teens, which is
also not so nice tonally uh, notnot so nice tonally.

(36:34):
There is street crime and allthat kind of thing.
That really points to this sortof darker, darker vibe which is
very reminiscent of the comics.
But then there are those adultcomic book readers that would
want to go and see this movie.
But then the most successfulthing about the teenage mutant
ninja turtles was obviously thecartoon in the toy line which
was making lots, of, lots ofmoney.
So the kids were also a bit ofa pull and an audience to come
to this Ninja Turtles movie.

(36:55):
So totally, if you're trying tomake this, you're going to
disappoint either one or theother, and I think Steve Barron
tried to get the best of bothworlds in this.
He tried to mesh both of themtogether.

Speaker 2 (37:03):
And that doesn't usually work out too well.

Speaker 1 (37:05):
It doesn't usually work out too well, so you
usually get the people who lovethe darker, grittier elements of
it and then the people who lovethe comedic sort of slapstick
moments of it.
I think this one, I think itdoes it okay in terms of meshing
those two things together.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
What are your thoughts?
I don't mind the kids smokingpaying billions.
It's a very Pinocchio themedsort of thing and I thought that
was fine.
I thought that was the wholething of like come, children
come children, you can do allthis.

Speaker 1 (37:33):
Yeah, enticing Adults stuff, drink, beer, smoke do
whatever you want.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
Yeah, you're free to do whatever you want.
Your parents hate you.
We love you.
Like.
That sort of exploitation issomething I liked.
There was parts like whenthey're robbing April O'Neil's
van and then they're like, ah,I'm gonna kill her.
I'm like, ooh yeah, like itjumps to a thousand, yeah it

(37:56):
goes from quick she's seen her,gotta get her, or something like
that, or we need to tie her upor something like that or keep
her quiet and stuff like thatit's just like I'm gonna kill
her.
It's a bit radical, going fromlike yeah, one to a thousand.
But um, in those moments thereand even like down the subway
when april gets slapped the shitout, yeah, it's like damn.

(38:18):
I can sort of see why theactress for april was like
didn't want to come back and waslike no, this is probably a bit
too violent and dark for me andlike I can, I can see that and
it would work for I don't knowlike a different kind of movie.
But you're, you're talkingabout teenage mutant ninja,
turtle yep, teenage is in thename.
Having all these extremelyadult, violent, uh, aspects to

(38:42):
it, I think sort of just ruinsthat teenage part and I think is
why, like, a lot of thedialogue sort of doesn't mesh up
, as we said earlier, tonally.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
Like the story is good well, that's a lot of the.
The actual story beats weretaken straight from a comic book
, yeah, so I think the story wasreally good.

Speaker 2 (38:59):
It's well written but I think, yeah, I think they
were right in the in when theyfind the director.

Speaker 1 (39:05):
The direction of it, I think, was a bit off in terms
of the ip and in terms of hissteve barron's vision.
Uh, they fired him obviouslybecause there was a tonal
imbalance between the audience'sexpectations and his production
that he made.
I read somewhere as well thatthey released this movie to a
film festival audience in lasvegas and the crowd was filled

(39:28):
with, like adults and, obviously, a large smattering of children
.
That were their hype trailers.
They got a little snippet hereand there.
Everybody was wondering whatthese turtles would look like on
the screen, and then they'dwatch the movie and there were
parts that they obviously lovedand then there were parts that
they didn't like.
So it didn't really get a fullcowabunga from any of the
audience members, old or young,and because of that it got

(39:50):
middling and conflicting reviews.

Speaker 2 (39:52):
Yeah, and I or young and because of that it got
middling and conflicting reviews.
Yeah, and I reckon some of thedarker like themes to the movie
and then seeing the turtle, Ireckon some of these younger
kids probably got scarred fromyeah yeah, well, there was
actually a darker scene as well,like when tatsu was beating the
crap out of those foot ninjachildren to teach them
discipline.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
Yeah, apparently in the original script it was
scripted that that young footninja was supposed to die like,
and then in post-production theyadded the vocals afterwards to
say, oh, is he breathing?
Yeah, he's breathing.
Oh, he'll be okay.
Like.
That was added in after becauseeverybody was like in
screenings they're like that isway too dark.
Yeah, for this adult person toto kill a small teenage kid.
Yeah, uh, in a ninja turtlesmovie.

Speaker 2 (40:29):
Yeah so I understand he wanted to go a darker route,
but I don't think ninja turtlesis the way to do it.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
Yeah well, at least not when the fan base and the ip
sits from the 1987 cartoon andyou've obviously added elements
of that cartoon in the moviewhich feeds into the children
that are fans of teenage mutantninja turtles wanting to go and
see it I mean if at the, at thepoint, the storyline of the
ronin around hell, yeah, he'd bejumping over that because
that's very dark tones.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
Yep Danish Mutant Ninja Turtles.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
And then one thing that they kept in that was very
surprising to me was afterSplinter knocked Shredder off of
the roof, he gets into thegarbage truck and then Elias
coaches casually as Casey Jonesjust presses on the compactor,
crushes the man just committedmurder.
Everybody cheers, it's like,yeah, and you know, you can see
how parents of the 90s who,let's say, they might have been

(41:22):
a little bit less liberal thanthey might be today, probably
had a bit of a problem with someof the things that are in the
movie.
So I think for me, tonally, Irespect what they tried to do
and I do like the tonally darkcartoon.
However, it's like red andgreen in the washing machine
Neither the two should they mix.
So for me, for this it's goingto be a late pizza.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
Ah yeah, I'm the same .
Late pizza I'm the same.
The story as a whole is good.
I just think they should havepicked the lane.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
That's a good comment .

Speaker 2 (41:55):
Yeah, keep it light or go dark.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (42:00):
Well, you're always going to disappoint someone
thinking that you're not.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
I think the confusion of this one and the tonal
confusion of this one led to thepoor audience reception of
number two and number three,because you'd have those people
that were expecting the darkertone going in and getting a very
child-centric slapstick comedyversion of the Turtles
reminiscent of the cartoon.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
I love three.
Yeah, I love three.
It's probablystick comedyversion of the Turtles,
reminiscent of the cartoon Ilove three.
Yeah, I love three.
It's probably my favorite outof the three movies.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
Yep, and I think that they definitely have their
audience and their space too.
But I think the confusion ofnumber one and the tonal
difference is what set those twoup to not be as successful as
the first.
Yeah, so yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:37):
Yeah, but I still love the movie and love the
Ninja Turtles.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
but yeah, I think pick a lane yeah pick a lane
alright, let's get to our MVTs.
Our most valuable takeawaysegment is where we discuss the
most important thing we learnfrom the media that we have
watched.
It could be something thatextends our knowledge or
something that we can apply toour life.
It can be as simple as a pieceof dialogue that stuck with us,
or a thematic or moral lesson,or a technical piece of seminar

(43:03):
of cinnamon that we want todiscuss.
Uh, most valuable takeaways.
Brash, do you want to go first,or me?

Speaker 2 (43:11):
uh, you can go all right.

Speaker 1 (43:12):
So with me, the thing that struck me the most in this
movie was the importance ofpositive role models for shaping
the youth.
So, most notably, we have twolike gender doesn't really
matter when it comes to rolemodels for shaping the youth.
So, most notably, we have twolike gender doesn't really
matter when it comes to rolemodels.
But in this particular movie wehave two male role models in
the form of Splinter, whorepresents wisdom, discipline

(43:33):
and genuine care like we saidbefore, wisdom and warmth.
And then we have Shredder, whois very much about exploiting
vulnerabilities and fuelsmisguided loyalties to very
different kind of mentors.
So if we're talking aboutsplinter, he's patient, he's
compassionate, he's unwavering.
He's got this moral foundation.
His approach to teaching theturtles is all about respect and

(43:53):
honor.
He always wants them to applytheir strengths unique and
individual strengths but he alsotells them that their greatest
strength comes from each otherthrough brotherhood.
He honors their self-discovery,allowing them to explore
various different strengths oftheir own and also weaknesses.
He encourages them to facetheir fears.
He nurtures them in a fatherlysort of way and he teaches them

(44:16):
self-control and responsibility,which is all of the hallmarks
of a really good role model foryouth children Like.
He's stable as well and he'sconsistent, and that's the best
part about Splinter.
And then if we flip that coinand look at Shredder and the
Foot Clan, a lot of hisclientele will say lost youths
or children.

(44:36):
He presents a very predatory.
Look at mentorship and you cansee that Danny is the perfect
example of the kind of clientelethat he has in this movie.
So if we're looking at thecharacter of Danny, he's lost.
He's searching for belonging,purpose and power and control,
and that's something that a lotof young men, a lot of young
teenage men, are looking for,even in today's society.

(44:57):
It's not something that'sculturally lost in the nineties,
it's something that they'redefinitely looking for.
And the shredder sort of givesthem that illusion, that
seductive illusion of freedom,like we said before, giving them
exactly what they want, givingthem a place where they can be
themselves.
In quote marks, however, there'sa hierarchy here.
It's got undertones ofobedience that needs to be

(45:22):
controlled through servitude.
The roots of that leadership islike a facade, basically, and
it's most poignant in the scenewhere Shredder says you are here
because the outside worldrejects you and this is your
family now.
So he's already trying to preyon that sense of isolation
amongst these teenagers andobviously that is when Danny

(45:47):
sort of starts to question hischoices about joining the foot,
and I think that it's a really,really, really good takeaway in
terms of what positivementorship looks like, and a lot
of people should be warm andwise like master splinter,
instead of predatory and powerhungry, I guess you could say

(46:07):
like the shredder yeah so thatwas kind of my takeaway and
especially looking at a lot ofsociety these days in terms of,
like, where people fall intoyouth crime or where people fall
into gang culture or differentkind of ideologies like that,
that kind of mentorship isreally needed and I kind of I
kind of have had a little bit ofexperience in this in terms of,

(46:30):
like, my teaching profession.
There was a little little fellaobviously we'll keep it
confidential, but um littlefella who throughout his whole
schooling time was verymistrusting towards a lot of
teachers and authority figures,just because of how he was, and
I think that he was outwardlyaggressive, a lot like a lot of
these foot ninjas were, andrafael as well, and he would

(46:52):
like curse and use poor languageand things like that, and he'd
always abscond from classrooms,never feeling like he belonged,
and then he was put into to myclass.
So it was really and I knewabout all of this of thing with
him.
So I knew that the biggest thingthat I had to do with him was
value connection over correction, which is the approach I kind
of took with him.
So I wanted to know who he wasto start with.
I valued the fact that he was aperson who had strengths of his

(47:14):
own and he definitely had someweaknesses, and I didn't look to
correct any of those weaknessesor help him along his learning
journey, because there wasalready a mistrust.
So the thing that, like one ofthe first things that I did with
him was I'd talk to him aboutsome of the things that he was
doing wrong, away from everybodyelse, like I gave him the
respect of a conversationbetween two instead of
correcting him in front of awhole class of his peers, and

(47:36):
just that little shift alone oflooking at that respectful
relationship is what kind ofstarted to show him a little bit
of success in that space.
So I think that, like theSplinter as a mentor, if nothing
else, from this 1990s movie andall of Teenage Mutant Ninja
Turtles, is something that canbe looked at in university
degrees for teaching.

Speaker 2 (47:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
But that's my takeaway.
I think that Splinter is areally good mentor.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
Oh, 100%, and like in every, every adaptation of
seems to be in your drills, butthere's always that like when
you have, like whenever he'smaking speeches to the guys,
you're always, like alwaysyourself, zoned in to what he's
saying and sort of hyper focusedon what he's saying because
he's always spouting it.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
Yeah life advice that you could put on like a bumper
sticker or something.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
They've got that eat live love sort of thing, or eat
love, pray, whatever it is.
Yeah, they need to have likesplinter quotes.
Yeah, yeah, I definitely agree.

Speaker 1 (48:32):
I think I've got two least favorite versions of
Splinter and it's obviously theMichael Bay version where he
just doesn't seem warm.
He's wise but he's not warmtowards his sons.
He's very actuallydisciplinarian towards his sons
there.
And then also it's probably myleast favorite part of the
Mutant Mayhem.
The most recent Teenage MutantNinja Turtles movie is the
depiction of Splinter in thatone, because he's a little bit
goofy for one but he's also veryneglectful.

(48:54):
He's neglectful.
He just watches TV.
He doesn't notice his sons aregone.
He does still try to teach themfamily, but he's less of an
influence on them than he hadbeen previously.
So, yeah, I think Splinter inthis.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
He has to watch his stories.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
Yeah, yeah, he has to watch his stories, has to
Splinter in this movie isprobably my favorite, yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:11):
Prime example Splinter TMNT one as well.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
Yep, yeah, and he was the primary crappy mentor and
he went and was captured.
There'd be no reason for theturtles to want to try and find
him, but you can see thatconnection and that fostering
that he built so Flinter legend.
That's me, mvp.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
That is a very good MVP.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
Thanks, man, I love that.

Speaker 2 (49:41):
No, no but.

Speaker 1 (49:43):
And Fast and the Furious.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
They've ruined family .

Speaker 1 (49:46):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:46):
They've ruined family for me.
Anything like to do with family, I'm like all I can hear in my
head is Dom.
Trudeau.
Well, no, it's not even that,it's like the Family Guy version
of him.
Family, anyway, family anyway.
Yes, no, I saw a lot of my ownfamily actually in in their sort
of dysfunctional family.

(50:06):
Yeah, so my family, we've hadour ups and downs with each
other and that, but we've alwaysif any of us always hit our low
point, we'd always be there tohelp each other.
Yep, I'm not going to go toointo it for their sakes, more so
for mine.
But like for me, I always well,cause I always lived away from

(50:31):
my family pretty much, cause Imoved up sort of North with my
mom when I was young and myoldest and older brother stayed
in Victoria and it's always beenlike that.
When my mom moved back down toVictoria, I stayed up here and
I've pretty much been up herefor the rest of time and I might
see my family once, maybe ayear if I'm lucky, but like it's
always good to go down and seehim.
But in the similarities is likewe fight and like we we can say

(50:56):
some nasty things to each other, but we'll always come back to
each other and help each other.

Speaker 1 (50:59):
If anyone said anything nasty about you guys,
100%.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
Yeah, yeah, and that's the other thing.
We've always got each other'sbacks, no matter what we've done
, how much we've pissed eachother off.
When one of us is down, we'llhelp the other up.

Speaker 1 (51:12):
Which is very foregrounded in this Turtles
movie as well, because they dohave their differences, positive
and negative.
Raph is sort of like that blacksheep yep.
Raph is that black sheep fallsin the bath in a very like falls
into the the roof that'sexactly what my family would do
to me too.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
They'd just throw me in the bathtub.
All fucking mangled up yeah,he'll be fine.

Speaker 1 (51:30):
He'll be right in the shower he just needs a cold
shower.
Yeah, give him 24 hours.
But yeah, I think that the waythat the turtles rallied around
him afterwards and you can seehow lost they were without him
as well, yeah, they.
They would then, like Donatello, for example, latched onto
another we'll say masculine sortof figure in the form of Casey
Jones, cause he didn't haveRaphael.

(51:51):
Yeah, um, leonardo really doveinto his, his, his training and,
and disciplined himself andreally kind of focused on the
next thing that he could do,like really trying to correct
the mistake.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
And sort of like again not going to go too much
into it Donatello sort ofblaming himself for what had
happened to Raph With my ownfamily.
There was a point there becauseI was up here.
No, I was in Victoria at thetime but I couldn't help a
family member out at the timeand my other family members went
and helped instead of me and Isort of felt useless at the time

(52:23):
.
And so how Donnie sort of felt,how Leo felt when he was
sitting in a chair, basicallyjust staring at Raph, not
knowing what he can do to helpand feeling sort of useless and
lost not knowing what to do,until he finally goes out and
meditates and contacts Splinter.
He finally goes out andmeditates and contacts Splinter.
Yeah, and so it's sort of partsand like you got Donnie, as you

(52:43):
said, last year, onto Caseytrying to sort of take his mind
off of, I guess, what's going onor feel something similar to
how he feels when he's with Raph.

Speaker 1 (52:49):
It's like that comfort yeah and then Mikey.

Speaker 2 (52:52):
He's just pretty much making jokes about everything
because that's his deflectingactual pain and trying to, I
guess, in a way, try and keepeveryone's spirits up when
everyone's spirits are brokenand like, especially in large,
like large families, likeeveryone sort of has a role like
that in the family.
Yep, it's like I know, like my,my oldest sister, she's

(53:15):
probably like the Leo of ourfamily, like she's like she's
always one we go to when we needadvice.
Yeah, she's always one like sheorganized, like all's always
one we go to when we need advice.
Yeah, um, she's always one likeshe organized.
Like all the christmases, allthe presents.
She doesn't really do thatanymore for us because we're all
adults, we should be able to doit ourselves, but we still like
it.
Every like when it comes tomom's birthday, I'm like, oh so
what are you doing mom'sbirthday?
Yeah, yeah, what are we doing?

(53:36):
What are we doing?
Can I give you a few bucks andjust chip in?
Yeah, yeah yeah, like, yeah,stuff like that.
She's definitely like the Leoand I think like my brother is
probably more Raph, I would say,yeah, raph.
And then my younger sister isprobably a little more called
Michelangelo.
He's sort of the.
Instead of being like funny,he's more of the, but she's more

(53:58):
of like the has done a lot ofsilly things.
Okay, but we all have, we'veall done silly things, yeah, so
we've all sort of got our ownsort of parts.
I'm the sort of Donnie thenerdy outsider who lives away
from family, like he's alwaysaway from family.
So, and yeah, cause there'sfour of us and I've got my

(54:19):
stepbrothers and everything likethat, but I have four main
family members like siblings.

Speaker 1 (54:25):
Yeah, I can see sort of each of us in in the ninja
turtles, so yeah, and you know,the good thing about the turtles
is that, like they're, they'reobviously flawed individuals,
but together they're kind ofstrong, which is splinter's
lesson as well, you know, andthat's that's very common in a
lot of sort of families.
Everybody and we're all veryself-critical of ourselves, more
than anybody else in the wholeentire world too, and I think
that you know that formula offamily that comes in through the

(54:48):
Turtles is why it'sgenerational as well.
So if you're talking about thisbeing in the 1990s, being
originally created in themid-80s, there is almost a new
iteration of the Teenage MutantNinja Turtles every two to three
years because it's such apopular thing through so many
different generations.
And it's because of thatcentral theme of them being a
mismatched family, whereeverybody just sort of comes

(55:11):
together in times of need butalso has their weaknesses that
they're working on.
That is then strengthened bythe others that are around them
as well and also accepted forthe good and the bad of them,
which is and the place to belong, which is important too.

Speaker 2 (55:29):
And there's not too many solid media out there that
has done that over the expansionof time.
Yep, like you do see it in likea like long running series is
like being many adaptations oflike, say, street fighter, and
there'd be many.
Like there's been movies andcartoons and all kinds of things
same with Tekken, but nothingas probably as prominent as like
TNT.
Like they've had five differentor four different cartoon

(55:52):
series.
They've had multiple movies,four different kinds of movies.
Now you've got the Michael Bayone, 1990s one, you've got the
michael bay one, 1990s one, yougot the tmnt one and then you've
got the um newest one.
Yep, yeah, you can't, you can'treally say that to too many
other types of media.
Yep, the only thing theyhaven't really had is a decent
video game yeah, that's truethey've had the old arcade video

(56:15):
game, which is pretty sick.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
Yeah, I play that with my son actually he's,
that's the first video game heever played, yeah, and he was
like three when he started andyeah, that's how he started to
love donnie, because no footninja could get to him, because
he's always got a massive onestick.
So, yeah, um, but yeah I I,like you, said that this wasn't
a very in-depth one, but I thinkit's actually central, I think
it's core and it's a reason whythe turtles have survived for
this long in pop culture yeah,the values that they actually

(56:39):
portray and the different, thedifferent um emotions and
different start like lifestylesthat they each have appeal to
pretty much everyone, a lot ofdifferent people, a lot of
different kids a lot ofdemographics.
Like any person, they'reprobably then you sort of tell
before they're missing is an emofoot turtle um, my thing as

(57:01):
well, before we, we, we sign offis, uh, shout out to single
parents because, like,splinter's been doing it raising
four boys, yeah, for 35 years.
I have, along the time, he'sbeen around and he's raised four
incredibly awesome young men,uh, so, yeah, I think that that
that even that blended familykind of approach it shows that a
family can look different toyour family, but it's still a
family that's just as loving,just as awesome, has just as

(57:23):
much potential to be successful,even though it's not cookie
cutter.
I think that's really beautifulabout the turtles too.
It's because they're allconsidered freaks, but they're
together there and you know theystart to and Casey Jones in
this movie actually starts toquestion that as well.
You know this a family and youknow for a fact that he is

(57:45):
feeling part of the familyamongst a rat and his four boys
and april, who they've adoptedas well.
Yeah, like you don't get morerag tag than that you're like
call this a family.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
No, this is a family yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
I love that.
Let's put this on our fandomportals on a board.
Hosts rate the media and placeit on the letterbox on a board.
This board can be followed,tracked and found on our
letterboxals on a board.
Hosts rate the media and placeit on the letterbox on a board.
This board can be followed,tracked and found on our
letterbox, which is at fandomportals, if you wanted to take
this one 2.5.
Okay, yeah, 2.5.

Speaker 2 (58:12):
And that 2.5 goes to pretty much the story that could
have been and all the valuesfrom the actual movie.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
Everything else was a bit average, okay, and all the
values from the actual movie Yep.
Everything else was a bitaverage, okay.
Dialogue.

Speaker 1 (58:22):
Yep, all right.
So for me I'm going to give ita 3.5.
And I'm giving it that becauseof the relationship between the
turtles, like that whole familyvibe I really, really like.
I think the story was solid.
I respect the ingenuity of JimHenson's Creature Shop to create
the animatronic turtles.
I think the actors overcame alot of adversity as well and

(58:44):
it's a story like.
I watched it this week and itholds up as a movie.
They did it on a shoestringbudget as well, for the time,
$13 million.
They worked really hard to getit done.
But then also they have theelements of the dialogue, the
action sequences hit and miss.
For some.
The villain of the shredder issort of like is is this a

(59:06):
totally bad movie or is this atotally good movie, like?
Uh, anyway, I reckon 3.5 out of5.
So let's put it on that board.
This movie collectively betweenBrash and I, gets a 3, which
means it places.
So the Teenage Mutant NinjaTurtles, made in 1990, directed
by Steve Barron, is going to beour eighth placed movie on the

(59:27):
fandom portals on a board.
It's going to sit below Sonicthe Hedgehog 3 and above the
Nice Guys, which sounds aboutright to me.
Yeah, yeah, very cool, allright, so that is where it sits
on our fandom portals, on aboard.
Let's do our sign-offs, allright, everybody, we do have a
brand new website, which iswwwfandomportalspodcastcom.

(59:51):
Make sure you go and check thatout.
We have all our episodes onthere, as well as some blog
posts associated with theepisode.
You can get all your geekyinformation from there and
everything fandom portalsrelated.
You can contact us for a movierecommendation or you can give
us some feedback on the show,which we always love.
If you are feeling kind, youcan also go over to Apple
Podcasts or Spotify and give usan honest review.
Five stars would be good,wouldn't it, brash?
Five stars would be awesome.

(01:00:11):
That would be great, but onlyif you really feel like it.
Longer form question you canemail us, which is fandomportals
, at gmailcom.
We love getting feedback, guysand also join our social medias,
which is Threads, instagram andReddit.
You guys can be a part of ourdaily posts.

(01:00:32):
We can chat you out on the showas well.
Next month, brash, next month,we have some exciting stuff
happening.
Next month, in April this beingour last episode for March the
Avengers Doomsday cast wasreleased.
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lots of names, lots of names,yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:49):
Five hours of just chairs.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
What a way to release and keep people in capture.
Five hours of chairs I know, butyou know the funny thing about
it though that broadcast gotmore viewers than the Avengers
Infinity War trailer did.
So people that say that Marvelis dead are pretty well mistaken
, because I think there isdefinitely still a fan base for
it and people are excited forthe new Avengers movie.

(01:01:12):
So as a celebration of that,brash and I have decided to make
April our Marvel month.
So for the month of April,we're going to be doing
exclusively Marvel content.
The movies that we'll befeaturing, we haven't decided
yet.
One of them will be picked byyou and look forward to that.
So how the duck we're not doing.
How the Duck?
I don't think we could talkabout it and maintain a

(01:01:33):
listenership, honestly, notbecause you know it probably has
its plus points.
We'd probably write somethingpositive about it, but there's
some things on there that I justdon't want to touch on.
I can't believe.
Did you know it was GeorgeLucas?
Yeah, before we mentioned thatin the last episode, crazy times
.
I don't know man, what was hethinking?
He needed a palate cleanseafter Star Wars.
This is Aaron signing off.
Have fun, be safe.

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
This is Brash signing off.
Cowabunga dude bleh.

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Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1990) - Part Two: Raphael's Rage and Donatello's Development. Splinter the Master of Mentoring, Family and Ninjitsu!

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1990) - Part Two: Raphael's Rage and Donatello's Development. Splinter the Master of Mentoring, Family and Ninjitsu!