September 13, 2024 • 36 mins
Welcome to the Founders Odyssey podcast, where Nathan Byrd, the founder, interviews visionary founders who have bought, sold, and taken companies public while creating innovative products and services. In this episode, Nathan is joined by Shawn Finnegan from TaxHive, a genuine community builder and partner.
Shawn shares his inspiring journey from a challenging upbringing to becoming a successful entrepreneur. Raised by a bookstore manager father and a side-hustling immigrant mother, he learned the value of hard work and scrappiness early on. He discusses the importance of being resourceful, raising capital, and creating meaningful partnerships.
The conversation delves into the significance of market research, the power of a growth mindset, and the crucial role of community and networking. Shawn offers practical advice on nurturing relationships, structuring partnerships, and maintaining a positive mindset amidst challenges.
Join us for an insightful discussion that will inspire and guide aspiring entrepreneurs on their journey to success. Don't miss out on Shawn's valuable tips and wisdom!
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hey, everybody. My name is Nathan Bird, founder here of the Founders Odyssey
podcast, where we interview founders that have bought companies,
sold companies, taken companies public, and are creating innovative products
or services for the world.
I'm joined here with TaxHive partner, an amazing community builder,
and honestly, just a genuine individual.
(00:20):
So I just want to introduce Sean with TaxHive. Sean, please share with us a
little bit about more about yourself, but then And also, what does entrepreneurship mean to you?
Thanks for having me, Nate. You know, we met a long time ago.
Yes, sir. And we actually did the first Breakfast Palooza together at TaxHive
(00:40):
office, which was way cool.
I remember you coming to me with all this energy. You're like,
oh, I got this. I want to do this Breakfast Palooza.
And I was like, that's a brilliant, I mean, what a brilliant idea.
Because you get lunches, dinners, everything else. And it was so unique.
And you came at it with so much energy and passion. And all of a sudden, we did the first one.
And I remember like, well, is anyone going to show up at this thing like any
(01:04):
other event, right? Where you're like, some are great and some are just tiny.
And I remember looking out in the hall and it was like a long line of people.
And I remember those first, I think we did two or three there, didn't we?
Well, there was one that we focused on for sure. But yeah, it's definitely expanded for sure.
Yeah, but it was, remember we broke up in groups and you talked about the moonshots.
(01:28):
And to me it was actually one of the one of the
better events with true connections in the room yeah it
was an awesome event remember it just kept going like it
was a breakfast but then it turned into like all the way till noon or something
the one thing that i really want others to understand a little bit about you
too and then we'll get into you know what you're doing and then also some of
(01:49):
the passion and desire that you have behind what you do and and how you're helping
entrepreneurs at this moment.
So let's talk about, you know, some of your upbringing, you know,
how, what is the Sean story?
And I think that more people want to know a little bit about the,
the, the let's peel back the end a little bit. Right.
And then also what does, what does entrepreneurship mean to you?
(02:10):
Yeah. So I, I was born and raised in Utah in Orem and I was raised by a father
who was a bookstore manager, bookstore manager for 40 years.
So picture how you would picture a bookstore manager that's who
I was raised by this even kill tons of faith
amazing individual but he had five children okay so I was right and smack in
(02:31):
the middle of five kids and he's trying to raise five kids you know with that
kind of salary yeah or it's not much I mean it was a tough upbringing so I have
this mom who's an immigrant from Scotland total butt kicker.
Like strong, still accent. If you talk to my mom right now, it's still a really strong accent. Yeah.
So she was the ultimate butt kicker side hustle mom.
(02:55):
So she started up multiple businesses just to support five kids with a bookstore
manager, you know, pay, right?
So for me, I had two examples. It was like, you know, rich mom,
poor dad kind of thing, example.
And so for For me, I was inspired so much by my mom.
And so I really kind of mimicked what she did. Like I was, if I wanted any kind
(03:17):
of allowance, I wouldn't go to my dad and say, hey, dad, give me, you know, five bucks.
That just wasn't even in the card. So I would go door to door and sell things.
And that's how I learned. I
learned on the playground, I'd take a duffel bag and I'd sell like candy.
I remember selling camouflage pencils and I'd just go door to door and hold up the pencils.
It's like, hey, I got these pencils. How many do you want? You know,
(03:38):
kind of thing. And I got a bunch of yeses. And so I actually made money selling.
Did you do colored pencils?
Oh, yeah. I did it all. I mean, I sold everything you can think of.
What was your upsell? Did you have an upsell?
The upsell was me showing up a week later with another something to sell. Pizzas.
Like I bought pizzas for cheap and sold those. You name it.
So scrappy, that's going to be another topic we talk about. And we just actually,
(04:02):
before we came into the podcast room today, we were talking about scrappy and
what that means. and then also some examples of entrepreneurs that are going
a little bit above and beyond just to provide.
I love that topic is how you go a little bit above and beyond.
So share with us a little bit about some of the things that you've learned through
(04:23):
this scrappy mentality, number one.
And then also number two, how are you going above and beyond to create a customer
experience that continues to bring people back?
Yeah, so the scrappiness is always something I've tried to stick with and try to take.
You have some childhood lessons that you learned, and that's all happening for
(04:46):
you. So you use that throughout your career.
So for me, I started my first business in 2009.
And for the first time in my life, I had zero money going into the business.
And 2009 was like coming in a recession.
Right after, yeah. 2008 was tough. 2009, I start my first business. my first real business.
(05:06):
And we didn't even have an office, nothing. So we had no budget, no office.
So a lot of people say, well, I can't do a business because I don't have enough resources.
Well, it's like Tony Robbins said, just be more resourceful.
So I was very resourceful.
So we would go to a sandwich place and we'd sit in a booth and plan out our
business. And that was in 2009.
(05:28):
And so I came up with a spreadsheet. And according to the spreadsheet,
I'd become a millionaire, right?
I had it all planned out. Probably faster than you or like faster than anything possible. Yes.
According to the spreadsheet, I was going to crush it. So I built the spreadsheet
and then I have to go raise money for the first time in my life.
(05:48):
I've never raised a dime, right? So that's another challenge.
A lot of people watching the show is like, hey, should I raise,
you know, you're right here. There's an incubator here.
Like, should I raise money? Should I bring money in?
More than not, I tell people 100% you need money.
If you bring money in, it gives you a longer runway. If you don't have enough
money or you don't have money in the bank, eventually you're just going to die.
(06:12):
Kevin O'Leary calls it blood. So money is blood, represented blood in your system.
Once you're out of blood, you die, right? So you've got to bring in money.
It could be your own revenue or raising. So I knew in order to pull this off, I'd have to raise money.
So over the next maybe six months, I pitched 60, 70 people, the angel investors, to raise money.
(06:36):
And I got 23 of them to say yes. And I raised $1.5 million in the next six months.
So let's go back into the market research that you did, right?
Because before you become Scrappy, in essence, to build the business,
what was the prior research that you did, in essence, to be able to step into
(06:58):
that market and solve a problem? What was that big problem that you saw?
Yeah, so this was a live events business that I wanted to launch.
So that's like the Tony Robbins, the big brands. That's what I wanted to do.
And I came from a background of that. So my previous business was that.
And I worked for someone else who was doing that space.
But I also did tons. I literally went to the mall and asked people,
(07:19):
I did surveys. I did on the street gorilla surveys.
I gathered it up as much as I possibly could. It's actually a pretty great place.
If you want to know, if your target audience is walking around the mall,
then go to the mall and ask people questions. You can get tons of information.
Or if you're trying to sell a grocery store, go out in front of the grocery
store and ask 10, 20 people questions about your product and what they'd be interested in.
(07:42):
So many people don't do that. Well, I was going to say, that's what I see sometimes
in early stage founders.
They have an innovative product idea, but then they don't go through a very
systematic approach to being able to gather the right information.
You know, like five to seven questions. That's very pinpointed,
right? Because you know, the quality of your life is defined by the quality
(08:03):
of the questions that you ask.
And, you know, we believe that to be true in life, but also in business.
Yeah. So sounds like you were on point. Yeah, I also talk to people who don't
even ask their customers questions.
You can glean so much information from your customers. Hey, why did you respond to my marketing piece?
What was it about our company that interested you in purchasing,
(08:25):
pulling out your wallet and buying from us? What was that piece?
And figure out, go deep into the mindset of your buyers.
A lot of people just, they'll fulfill and they move on. But do you have a resource
there, right, that you can really glean from?
That's so good. I know that earlier we spoke a little bit about being in the
quote-unquote arena and in the game.
(08:46):
And as you're continuing to build your business, as you are maybe going through
the failures that you went through because you had to pitch right. 23.
So that means you, you know, I got rejected a bunch plus, you know what I mean?
Cause if you want to do the numbers and then obviously you had to have a pretty good solution.
So then people are getting behind it, you know.
(09:09):
While you're in the game or in the arena, let's talk a bit about the mind and
how important it is to feed the mind with not just positive thoughts,
but also just knowing that there's a difference between a growth mindset and a fixed mindset.
So share with us about your perspective on a fixed as opposed to a growth,
(09:32):
and then also right during that time where you're trying to build and what did
that? Well, you referenced the Theodore Roosevelt.
It's one of my greatest quotes. It's not about the critic. It's about the person in the arena, right?
It's really easy to sit on the sidelines and point at the person in the arena, right?
And I actually mentioned that to you on this last Breakfastpalooza.
(09:53):
I was like, hey, I respect the fact that you throw your hat in the ring and
you're in the arena. You're out there making it happen.
And so many times we can get, like, I mentor for an incubator in Utah County,
and these entrepreneurs just get stuck.
They get stuck on a point, and they can't get past it. And this one thing,
(10:16):
like, I met with someone who, he asked me, he's like, he has no money in the bank at all.
And he's like, I don't know, I got an offer for 50 grand for 10% of my company.
I don't know if if I should take it.
I don't want to give up equity. And it's that shortage mentality.
And I asked the entrepreneur, well, what's the one way that's going to guarantee
(10:36):
you will go out of business?
And as we talked about it, he's like, I don't have money. He's married, has no income.
I was like, how long will that last? How long can you go home to your wife and
try to sell her on the future potential?
How long is that going to last? It might last a month or two or three or four or five.
But at some point, you're going to have to make that hard decision.
(10:57):
Do I let this baby that I've raised die?
Or do I go raise money? And so I was like, take the 50 grand. Take it. For 10%?
What would you do? So I asked him, what would you do with the 50?
Oh, I could do my marketing campaign. I can finish up my product.
I could do this. And his product was really fascinating.
(11:20):
He helps people who are being abused, and he creates a cigarette lighter.
And if you click it two times, it calls your family. Three times, it calls the police.
Oh, wow. Because an abuser will take your phone away. So it can make a great impact on the world.
But he just needs money to get that thing finished. Well, that's a good example.
I think that you have those hard decisions as you start to scale.
(11:44):
And I believe that you have a lot of insight and wisdom to share with the founders
out there who are listening to this about what does scale look like while you're in that arena,
both from the negative feedback that you may receive, but also the positive.
But share with us a little bit about structuring a
(12:06):
partnership because i know you're really about partnerships yeah and
i admire and respect the fact that you continue to
build community as well which is one thing that i've seen you do really well
yep but share with us how you build that trust but also how you give that trust
so then you can scale yeah so i feel like the everyone you know i meet with
(12:27):
entrepreneurs i don't think there's day goes by i'm not meeting with business owners. Yep.
And I always ask them, how do you market? How do you get customers?
And the most common, of course, is word of mouth.
And I think word of mouth, that's amazing. I mean, think about it.
Word of mouth, that means that someone likes your product or likes you,
and they're willing to tell other people about it. That is the best way you can scale.
(12:49):
It doesn't require money out of your pocket up front to get that person to go
tell their friends and family about it.
But in my experience most of the people who do word of
mouth can do so much more and so much better
like they'll go to events they'll meet
people won't follow through you know there's all sorts of stuff that they can
do and i've never seen anyone where i'm like boy they have they've accomplished
(13:12):
everything and they're at the pinnacle of word of mouth i feel like there's
a huge opportunity for people to increase the amount of leads and the amount
of flow to their business.
So with your experience, of course, with building community,
share with us maybe a few tactical approaches that you've been able to utilize
(13:33):
as far as creating community, but also partnerships.
Yeah. So that's number one. And then the follow-on question is,
how do I or they, those that are listening to this, how do you give trust to
build or scale your operation?
Yeah. Because I feel that you've got different entrepreneurs that are solopreneurs,
(13:58):
but then they're starting to have to sell a vision, just like this gentleman
who is scared to just give 10% equity for 50K. Yeah, right.
So where is the difference, or how do you go from, okay, I'm ready to give 50K
because I just want to see this grow. So what's the mindset shift there?
(14:19):
Yeah, so going to the first question. So I think there's tactical things you
can do to build your community and build that network.
A lot of investors I see or partners or business owners, they're not plateauing
at this point. They're going backwards.
So they build up their business because they have this community and they've
kind of talked to most people in their business, in their community about their business.
(14:41):
And then all of a sudden there's not new people coming in and they go backwards.
They don't want to plateau.
So number one is, I have three things. Number one is, pull out your phone and
keep in contact with the contacts you've made.
It's like you're sitting on goldmine.
Let's say that you have a couple thousand people in your contacts.
(15:01):
You've got to ask yourself a question.
One is, is there a percentage of those people that should buy your product or service?
And number two is, is there anyone in that phone that should be an affiliate
or a partner that can offer your product or service to their community?
And the answer is always yes. And it doesn't matter if it's 10% or 20%.
It could be 100 to 200 people sitting on that phone right now.
(15:24):
And so we'll plant those seeds. There's probably 2,000 people we've planted
a seed, but we haven't nurtured it.
So I always tell people, pull out the phone. The first time I did this,
I literally sat in front of a spreadsheet with my phone.
And I made an old school type in the name and the number of the person that
I felt like could fit those two questions.
And I made a list of 400 people. And then I just, my plan was 10 to 15 texts
(15:49):
a day, starting to nourish those relationships.
So start there. That is the best place to start. There's probably people in
there right now that could solve your problem in your business right now.
I've seen that time and time again, because, you know, as a community builder
and somebody who loves to nurture relationships, just like you, it's like...
(16:11):
It's not always about how big, you know what I mean? Sure.
I was just thinking about it the other day. It was like, we,
and you too, we've created bigger type events where it's more than just a mastermind
group, right? Or a small group around a table.
And what I've realized is the community wants a show, but the show isn't the
(16:36):
community. Yeah, right.
Yeah, that's right. Right. That's a good insight, actually.
I was like, man, that is what we must continue to focus on.
We, as participants in events, we enjoy it, right? But there's also something
more that can be had in that.
(16:57):
So it's just a matter of quality as opposed to quantity.
And then just continue to nurture. It's funny, too, within marketing,
it's like, I'll go and ask a company,
How are you currently leveraging the customer base you already have?
Like you were saying, some companies don't even talk to their customers.
(17:20):
A buyer's a buyer, so they want to engage with you more.
So they buy a product. They're the highest likelihood of buying another product
from you. Yeah. Right? Yeah.
Share with us other tactical approaches. I mean, you have one.
So the second one is, is what you
and I are doing, creating a community or attending the live events, right?
(17:40):
So either you're attending a live event or you're creating a community.
For me, on creating your own community, I always start with the end in mind.
So I try to find, like, I have an X room event.
That's my private community, right? And I try to find, okay,
I want to get like the Bucked Up guys, for instance.
The founders of Bucked Up. Like, how do I get that person in a room?
(18:01):
And I come up with a list of certain rules that I won't break.
And then I go after that, right? So for instance, I'm like, yeah.
So I was like, Hey, they're not going to give me three days of their life.
They're not going to give me a weekend. They're not going to give me something
every single week either.
So what are all the things that they won't do and what will they do?
Well, they'll probably have to eat a lunch. There's a good book called never eat lunch alone.
(18:26):
So I was like, I just do a lunch and I do it every 90 days.
I don't do it every week. And I'm also not going to hit them up to say,
Hey, give me 5,000 bucks to go attend this lunch.
Right? So I'm just trying to attract that person.
So I'm going to make it no barriers. There's lots of friction when someone has to go to an event.
It's like time, money. I'm just going to make it the most simple,
remove all the obstacles.
(18:47):
So someone like that will actually get out of their busy, crazy life and get
into a room with other entrepreneurs. That was where I started.
And so I started the first one at like 35 people. Now it's like 130 to 150 show up at this thing.
And it just keeps growing with this momentum, right?
And so that's one. But if you're attending an event, I've just seen so many
(19:09):
best practices and so many bad practices.
And I literally, you know the Ivies. I went to an event with them a couple months
ago. And it was at a shooting range.
And they had a big building where everyone was coming in. And I just sat by
the door to see how people showed up at events just to try to do my own research.
And 90% of the time, it's awkward.
(19:29):
You know, it's like certain introverts are like, hey, go do this networking event.
They're like, oh, I'd rather die, right? So what happens is they come into the
room and they look at their phone, is the most common thing I've seen, and their head's down.
And then they go stand in the corner. The last thing they want to be is,
you know, go talk to people.
(19:49):
So they're in their phone. No one's connecting with them. No one's going up
to them because you look busy. you're on the phone and you're in the corner.
And so I recommend to people that you just put that phone away for a bit,
walk through those doors with energy, with power, and walk right to the center
of the room and go introduce yourself to people.
Everyone is in a networking event. They're all there to meet people.
(20:13):
That's the easiest place to go talk to people. And you got to show up.
And when you're there, if you meet 10 people, don't set up an appointment with all 10.
Try to find the ones that actually can be a good affiliate partner for you a customer,
or service and then what i my closing line
every time is like hey based on what you're doing yeah
(20:34):
riches are made in the follow-through right so based on what you're doing and
what we're doing i feel like there's some good synergies here how's your schedule
tuesday or tuesday at noon let's do lunch together and follow through yeah well
i know i remember you know when we were part part of the Genius Network and
Joe Polish there in Phoenix, Arizona,
every single event that we would attend.
(20:55):
It was almost like two days prior to the event and two days after,
I cleared my schedule. Yeah, smart.
That's really smart. I'm like, I'm zoned in. I'm focused.
I'm ready to learn. I'm intently focused on what it is I'm going to give,
but also what I will receive how I will intentionally use that information to
(21:19):
better my life and then better the lives of others.
Because there's this disconnect at times with those that are self-serving.
Yeah. They only are...
I have a saying, it's called like faith, action, flow.
Faf, you know, it's kind of funny, but faith, action, flow.
(21:41):
And when you take faith, right, you say, okay, you know, we're going to step
out not knowing exactly what's going to happen, which is the action part.
And then we are flow. We have to flow. Like you cannot let things come in, right?
For example, information, resources, ideas, things like that,
right? And of course, as soon as you start to become isolated, there's no flow.
(22:08):
There's no innovation. The creativity leaves you.
And that's where, anyway, I don't want to go too far into that,
but it's basically just this flow that we as entrepreneurs and creators must
have because the moment that we compare,
hair the moment that we're finding ourselves in a position of of
(22:29):
lack or you know or a survival state or of
scarcity yeah that doesn't allow
for complete creativity and almost anything is possible because that's what
we are as entrepreneurs we're we're dreamers but then doers yeah so i'm a big
believer in that so i finished a book it's one of my all-time favorites of wright
(22:49):
brothers and you got Orville and Wilbur Wright, right?
And this Dayton, Ohio, they're the first obviously to create it based on them
watching a bird, figuring out that it requires resistance.
Up to that, yeah. Yeah, so up to that point, it was like they would only fly,
when it was just completely peaceful, no wind.
(23:10):
Yes. They don't want to get injured. It's like, why would you go try to fly and win?
And they found out that resistance is what brings you up and they're the best
innovators of all time. I love them because they had a bike shop shop.
They're bike guys, and they're in this shop, and they come up with this concept, right?
But the sad part about it is after they break, they basically create a miracle in flight.
(23:32):
They spend the last several years of their life just suing others and going
through stress, trying to protect what they did.
So they innovated, innovated, innovated, and then they stopped innovating,
and they just tried to protect, and they went to a shortage mentality.
So Wilbur had a full-on stroke because
of stress and these two literally sued
(23:54):
sued sued sued to the end of their life it was just a
really sad ending of the story that no one knows about because
we just think of the wright brothers high fly i didn't know that yeah so when
you talk about like innovation is that flow they stopped flowing and if you
look at the history there's others that kept flowing and did all the the innovation
from there right but they stopped can't steer a parked car they They say, you know what I mean?
(24:18):
You can own a Ferrari, but what the heck are you going to do with it if it just
sits in your garage? That's right. You know what I mean? No flow.
And I hope you guys are catching this. This is a good, this is a good podcast for sure.
Because there are times in life, right? Where you feel as if gravity and of
failure is just, that's just what it is.
(24:38):
And it's just going to, you know, pound you and beat you down to the ground.
But it's actually based on what you're saying. And then also time and time again,
where we read and then we also experience through our own getting in the ring, right?
And learning and scrapping and growing those muscles that we need to overcome
the failure and the gravity and essence of life.
(24:59):
And I think that's just so important. So back to the founder who has a 10% equity
offer on the table for $50,000.
We don't have to name names or the company.
That's just a scenario. So let's just take that one scenario.
And because there's all sorts of scenarios.
You've got the person that's 350 at 15%. You've got the partnership that comes
(25:24):
along and is like, hey, man, I'll work hard and I'll do a rev share with you
at 20% on whatever product or service you offer.
So share with us the mindset that you must have, in essence,
to go into a negotiation of a partnership that will be a strategic win-win. Yeah.
So a lot of people ask us questions like, hey, what do I do in a partnership, right?
(25:47):
And I feel like a lot of people like the idea, and then they just jump into
it, but they don't actually have clear expectations going in.
In so like and i think a mistake a lot
of these investors make like i'm just going to pitch people who have
money that's a massive mistake yes try to
do something strategic right like one
of the entrepreneurs has a salt non-salt ice melter and he got an offer that
(26:16):
was less money than another investor but the less money guy has a ton of apartment
complexes and it would be such a It's just strategic. The other guy is just
like, I'm passive money.
I'm going to give you 10 grand. This guy is like, I'll give you five grand,
but I'm going to get you in contracts with all of our apartments.
And I was like, what do you do? He's like, oh, I'm going to go for the 10.
(26:37):
Right? Okay. Because it's more money. And I was like, let's talk this through. What does this mean?
10, what strategy do you get from it? Well, I just get money, help me fund, right?
What does this person bring to the table? And so it was like,
oh, I can get contracts. I can get deals.
I can get flow. I can get everything else because of this relationship.
So it's important. Just don't make a decision based on money or pitch someone
(27:02):
just because they have money. Make sure it's the right fit.
You want to date the money with the right opportunity, right?
I recently had an experience where an individual who is the head of marketing
or something at the Stein Erickson Lodge, gifted Lacey and I,
my wife, a night at a, like in one of their suites.
(27:24):
And I was very appreciative of it, of course, and it was like,
wow, this is like the luxury life.
You know, you pull up to the thing and it was like, hello, Mr.
Bed, and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, okay, well, I can get my own bags.
You know, I don't need you touching my bag. Right. It was kind of funny.
But the moral of the story here is the value that it was for someone to rent
(27:46):
out room is typically like $800 to $1,000.
Yep. But the individual who did the gifting is interested in a long-term relationship.
So wise money is long-term. Sure.
And I believe that that's so true, and more people need to understand that,
(28:07):
that there is a fine balance between the giving of time, money,
resources, things like that.
But also there's a long-term approach that then can allow for a deeper relationship
to actually occur. You know what I mean? Sure.
So it was just a different paradigm shift, right?
When you look at old money that's also super wise, and it's just you have these
(28:32):
individuals that are like, oh man, I'm investing in five years from now.
So if you have this kind of an internal perspective as well,
but also a long-term perspective, perspective it's going to totally shift
your entire perspective on money yeah
on what you grow sure relationships that you're building i think
that's how you should approach relationships because people say hey
(28:53):
what do i even do when i go into meetings and when i meet people what what shall
i i don't what what should i present to them i'm like that's the wrong question
like right yeah just go into that mindset like you said hey what what value
can i provide to them and they're They're going to see you as someone who leads with value first.
And then you could even ask, like, who do you think I should talk to that might
(29:16):
be a good fit as an affiliate for me? That's what I'm looking for right now. Yeah.
But if you lead first with like, hey, how do I seek to understand what Nate
wants to accomplish first?
And then I may have some intros immediately I can send you.
And then, hey, Nate, this is what I'm trying to accomplish and work together
that way. But lead with a value and seek to understand first. Just ask questions.
(29:38):
I've found as well as being really transparent in essence with proper expectations
that you're setting to to set the stage for a relationship.
So for example, I'll come in and I'll say, so this is the first stage of a relationship.
I want to get to know you. Of course, I see that you have X,
(29:59):
Y, and Z, maybe skills, services, company, money, or things like that with the
overall intent of X, Y, and Z.
So then we first, we firmly established what that is going to look like right
up front where, because I've experienced, you know, definitely when I was raising
funds, I raised, you know, $350,000 for WordBeam, our educational learning application.
(30:20):
And the startup studio that we were working with was...
You know, where we have spent $137,000 on them and then only to have,
only to have them want to, to take our idea in the very end.
So, you know, for that, there was no, there was no real proper expectations
that were set and then, and then a negotiation that can take place.
(30:44):
Because if you're 100% on the table, like this is what I'm looking for,
you know, this is the timeline that I'm looking for it, then the other person
can react appropriately to the truth that is set. You know what I mean? Yeah.
But it's not always as easy.
Yeah. You know what I mean? For sure. Yeah. At TaxHive, I made that mistake early on.
(31:09):
We're sales and marketing guys. We're like, hey, let's outsource our taxes to tax professionals.
And we went to a firm, and they said all the right things. Like,
hey, let's do this. and it was a bad customer experience.
They weren't picking up the phone, weren't taking care of the client, nothing.
And we got all this blowback and we finally had to move. And I always look back
and it's like, hey, how clear was that expectation?
(31:30):
That we document everything and the clear expectations of what they're taking on.
And every time I've had some failure in business is because we just didn't do
it up front. It just sounds good and you just jump right in.
And you don't put up good fences and you don't have a good system.
You don't have a good process for saying, this is exactly what you're agreeing
to and what I'm agreeing to. Right.
Man, there's so much to learn. Well, we may have to have a part two on this one.
(31:54):
Just out of respect for your time out there, everybody, and then also your time,
Sean, I'd like to end it out, though.
Do you have any last words for the entrepreneur that you were in the past and
then also some of the wisdom that you would share with him as you are younger, right?
And then also to those that are out there. So what advice do you have for your
(32:17):
younger self? Yeah, so for sure for my younger self, if I did it all over again,
I feel like after I raised that money, I failed in the next 12 months.
I lost all 1.5, barely made payroll by $1,000 the next day on a Thursday night, didn't sleep.
I mean, it was a miserable, miserable run.
(32:38):
And that afternoon on Friday, I remember everything I'd read.
I started pulling up pictures of incredible entrepreneurs like Steve Jobs.
What I found is, wait a minute, Steve Jobs isn't by himself in this photo.
He's got Wozniak in there.
Wait a minute, you pull up any of the greatest in history, they're never self-made and do it alone.
(33:01):
None of them. I don't think there's not one.
They always have integrators around their vision, right?
And so I came to the conclusion that afternoon I was going to start building
relationships in business. And I built a relationship with an individual who
changed everything for me.
And we went on a run where I was able to pay off the $1.5 all back to the investors plus interest.
(33:22):
And it was only because I built relationships. That's why I'm so passionate
about, because I've personally lived it.
Not building relationships and then building relationships transformed my whole career.
And had I not had relationships, I'd be down in the dumps. I know it.
And so my young self, I'd be like, don't start getting knee-deep in crocodiles
(33:45):
and get so focused on you and not looking
outside that lane and building relationships. Start doing it early.
Start building relationships, start building partnerships, start building affiliates now. Don't wait.
It's like, oh, I got to get through this thing in the business,
and then I'll start doing that.
No, the way you're going to get through that thing in your business is to have
a relationship and get a referral, that kind of stuff.
(34:08):
You hear it from Sean, community builder, co-founder, partnership wizard,
for sure, and a genuinely nice guy.
So how do we get a hold of view, Sean?
What's the best way? I think there's a few things on TaxHive.
We onboard a lot of clients every week, and we see three quick things.
One is they're just not taking the deductions like they should.
(34:30):
The basic stuff that we all know,
they're not taking nearly of it because they're small business owners.
They go to the big four accounting firms. The big four accounting firms don't
serve them, so they just go try to figure it out.
They're not tax people, but they try to do it anyways, and they end up just
getting hammered. They don't take even the basic ones.
There's a ton of deductions that they don't know about.
They probably could qualify for five or six more.
(34:53):
Start stacking up the deductions to offset your income, right?
And the number three is don't put everything in your own name.
We run into that all the time. If someone has an apartment complex, it's in their name.
They're just set up for lawsuits. So we do a blueprint and we'll send it out
to you and you can send it to everyone.
It's a blueprint just for your own keeping, but it answers five to 20 questions
(35:15):
and it spits you out a report to your email, and I'll show you how you can save now.
So that's the best way to engage, and we do that for free.
Okay, good. Cool. And then also, do you have a personal Instagram that people can follow as well?
Finnegan Sean. I think I'm the only Finnegan Sean out there. Okay, awesome. Yeah.
Well, thank you so much for joining us on the Founders Odyssey podcast with Sean Finnegan.
(35:38):
And we're just excited to continue to create this podcast.
And if you guys have any recommendations for good guests, please just make sure to comment below.
And continue to listen to the previous episodes. Thank you so much,
and we'll talk to you guys soon.
Music.
Hey, everybody. My name is Nathan Bird, founder here of the Founders Odyssey
podcast, where we interview founders that have bought companies,
sold companies, taken companies public, and are creating innovative products
or services for the world.
I'm joined here with TaxHive partner, an amazing community builder,
and honestly, just a genuine individual.
(00:20):
So I just want to introduce Sean with TaxHive. Sean, please share with us a
little bit about more about yourself, but then And also, what does entrepreneurship mean to you?
Thanks for having me, Nate. You know, we met a long time ago.
Yes, sir. And we actually did the first Breakfast Palooza together at TaxHive
(00:40):
office, which was way cool.
I remember you coming to me with all this energy. You're like,
oh, I got this. I want to do this Breakfast Palooza.
And I was like, that's a brilliant, I mean, what a brilliant idea.
Because you get lunches, dinners, everything else. And it was so unique.
And you came at it with so much energy and passion. And all of a sudden, we did the first one.
And I remember like, well, is anyone going to show up at this thing like any
(01:04):
other event, right? Where you're like, some are great and some are just tiny.
And I remember looking out in the hall and it was like a long line of people.
And I remember those first, I think we did two or three there, didn't we?
Well, there was one that we focused on for sure. But yeah, it's definitely expanded for sure.
Yeah, but it was, remember we broke up in groups and you talked about the moonshots.
(01:28):
And to me it was actually one of the one of the
better events with true connections in the room yeah it
was an awesome event remember it just kept going like it
was a breakfast but then it turned into like all the way till noon or something
the one thing that i really want others to understand a little bit about you
too and then we'll get into you know what you're doing and then also some of
(01:49):
the passion and desire that you have behind what you do and and how you're helping
entrepreneurs at this moment.
So let's talk about, you know, some of your upbringing, you know,
how, what is the Sean story?
And I think that more people want to know a little bit about the,
the, the let's peel back the end a little bit. Right.
And then also what does, what does entrepreneurship mean to you?
(02:10):
Yeah. So I, I was born and raised in Utah in Orem and I was raised by a father
who was a bookstore manager, bookstore manager for 40 years.
So picture how you would picture a bookstore manager that's who
I was raised by this even kill tons of faith
amazing individual but he had five children okay so I was right and smack in
(02:31):
the middle of five kids and he's trying to raise five kids you know with that
kind of salary yeah or it's not much I mean it was a tough upbringing so I have
this mom who's an immigrant from Scotland total butt kicker.
Like strong, still accent. If you talk to my mom right now, it's still a really strong accent. Yeah.
So she was the ultimate butt kicker side hustle mom.
(02:55):
So she started up multiple businesses just to support five kids with a bookstore
manager, you know, pay, right?
So for me, I had two examples. It was like, you know, rich mom,
poor dad kind of thing, example.
And so for For me, I was inspired so much by my mom.
And so I really kind of mimicked what she did. Like I was, if I wanted any kind
(03:17):
of allowance, I wouldn't go to my dad and say, hey, dad, give me, you know, five bucks.
That just wasn't even in the card. So I would go door to door and sell things.
And that's how I learned. I
learned on the playground, I'd take a duffel bag and I'd sell like candy.
I remember selling camouflage pencils and I'd just go door to door and hold up the pencils.
It's like, hey, I got these pencils. How many do you want? You know,
(03:38):
kind of thing. And I got a bunch of yeses. And so I actually made money selling.
Did you do colored pencils?
Oh, yeah. I did it all. I mean, I sold everything you can think of.
What was your upsell? Did you have an upsell?
The upsell was me showing up a week later with another something to sell. Pizzas.
Like I bought pizzas for cheap and sold those. You name it.
So scrappy, that's going to be another topic we talk about. And we just actually,
(04:02):
before we came into the podcast room today, we were talking about scrappy and
what that means. and then also some examples of entrepreneurs that are going
a little bit above and beyond just to provide.
I love that topic is how you go a little bit above and beyond.
So share with us a little bit about some of the things that you've learned through
(04:23):
this scrappy mentality, number one.
And then also number two, how are you going above and beyond to create a customer
experience that continues to bring people back?
Yeah, so the scrappiness is always something I've tried to stick with and try to take.
You have some childhood lessons that you learned, and that's all happening for
(04:46):
you. So you use that throughout your career.
So for me, I started my first business in 2009.
And for the first time in my life, I had zero money going into the business.
And 2009 was like coming in a recession.
Right after, yeah. 2008 was tough. 2009, I start my first business. my first real business.
(05:06):
And we didn't even have an office, nothing. So we had no budget, no office.
So a lot of people say, well, I can't do a business because I don't have enough resources.
Well, it's like Tony Robbins said, just be more resourceful.
So I was very resourceful.
So we would go to a sandwich place and we'd sit in a booth and plan out our
business. And that was in 2009.
(05:28):
And so I came up with a spreadsheet. And according to the spreadsheet,
I'd become a millionaire, right?
I had it all planned out. Probably faster than you or like faster than anything possible. Yes.
According to the spreadsheet, I was going to crush it. So I built the spreadsheet
and then I have to go raise money for the first time in my life.
(05:48):
I've never raised a dime, right? So that's another challenge.
A lot of people watching the show is like, hey, should I raise,
you know, you're right here. There's an incubator here.
Like, should I raise money? Should I bring money in?
More than not, I tell people 100% you need money.
If you bring money in, it gives you a longer runway. If you don't have enough
money or you don't have money in the bank, eventually you're just going to die.
(06:12):
Kevin O'Leary calls it blood. So money is blood, represented blood in your system.
Once you're out of blood, you die, right? So you've got to bring in money.
It could be your own revenue or raising. So I knew in order to pull this off, I'd have to raise money.
So over the next maybe six months, I pitched 60, 70 people, the angel investors, to raise money.
(06:36):
And I got 23 of them to say yes. And I raised $1.5 million in the next six months.
So let's go back into the market research that you did, right?
Because before you become Scrappy, in essence, to build the business,
what was the prior research that you did, in essence, to be able to step into
(06:58):
that market and solve a problem? What was that big problem that you saw?
Yeah, so this was a live events business that I wanted to launch.
So that's like the Tony Robbins, the big brands. That's what I wanted to do.
And I came from a background of that. So my previous business was that.
And I worked for someone else who was doing that space.
But I also did tons. I literally went to the mall and asked people,
(07:19):
I did surveys. I did on the street gorilla surveys.
I gathered it up as much as I possibly could. It's actually a pretty great place.
If you want to know, if your target audience is walking around the mall,
then go to the mall and ask people questions. You can get tons of information.
Or if you're trying to sell a grocery store, go out in front of the grocery
store and ask 10, 20 people questions about your product and what they'd be interested in.
(07:42):
So many people don't do that. Well, I was going to say, that's what I see sometimes
in early stage founders.
They have an innovative product idea, but then they don't go through a very
systematic approach to being able to gather the right information.
You know, like five to seven questions. That's very pinpointed,
right? Because you know, the quality of your life is defined by the quality
(08:03):
of the questions that you ask.
And, you know, we believe that to be true in life, but also in business.
Yeah. So sounds like you were on point. Yeah, I also talk to people who don't
even ask their customers questions.
You can glean so much information from your customers. Hey, why did you respond to my marketing piece?
What was it about our company that interested you in purchasing,
(08:25):
pulling out your wallet and buying from us? What was that piece?
And figure out, go deep into the mindset of your buyers.
A lot of people just, they'll fulfill and they move on. But do you have a resource
there, right, that you can really glean from?
That's so good. I know that earlier we spoke a little bit about being in the
quote-unquote arena and in the game.
(08:46):
And as you're continuing to build your business, as you are maybe going through
the failures that you went through because you had to pitch right. 23.
So that means you, you know, I got rejected a bunch plus, you know what I mean?
Cause if you want to do the numbers and then obviously you had to have a pretty good solution.
So then people are getting behind it, you know.
(09:09):
While you're in the game or in the arena, let's talk a bit about the mind and
how important it is to feed the mind with not just positive thoughts,
but also just knowing that there's a difference between a growth mindset and a fixed mindset.
So share with us about your perspective on a fixed as opposed to a growth,
(09:32):
and then also right during that time where you're trying to build and what did
that? Well, you referenced the Theodore Roosevelt.
It's one of my greatest quotes. It's not about the critic. It's about the person in the arena, right?
It's really easy to sit on the sidelines and point at the person in the arena, right?
And I actually mentioned that to you on this last Breakfastpalooza.
(09:53):
I was like, hey, I respect the fact that you throw your hat in the ring and
you're in the arena. You're out there making it happen.
And so many times we can get, like, I mentor for an incubator in Utah County,
and these entrepreneurs just get stuck.
They get stuck on a point, and they can't get past it. And this one thing,
(10:16):
like, I met with someone who, he asked me, he's like, he has no money in the bank at all.
And he's like, I don't know, I got an offer for 50 grand for 10% of my company.
I don't know if if I should take it.
I don't want to give up equity. And it's that shortage mentality.
And I asked the entrepreneur, well, what's the one way that's going to guarantee
(10:36):
you will go out of business?
And as we talked about it, he's like, I don't have money. He's married, has no income.
I was like, how long will that last? How long can you go home to your wife and
try to sell her on the future potential?
How long is that going to last? It might last a month or two or three or four or five.
But at some point, you're going to have to make that hard decision.
(10:57):
Do I let this baby that I've raised die?
Or do I go raise money? And so I was like, take the 50 grand. Take it. For 10%?
What would you do? So I asked him, what would you do with the 50?
Oh, I could do my marketing campaign. I can finish up my product.
I could do this. And his product was really fascinating.
(11:20):
He helps people who are being abused, and he creates a cigarette lighter.
And if you click it two times, it calls your family. Three times, it calls the police.
Oh, wow. Because an abuser will take your phone away. So it can make a great impact on the world.
But he just needs money to get that thing finished. Well, that's a good example.
I think that you have those hard decisions as you start to scale.
(11:44):
And I believe that you have a lot of insight and wisdom to share with the founders
out there who are listening to this about what does scale look like while you're in that arena,
both from the negative feedback that you may receive, but also the positive.
But share with us a little bit about structuring a
(12:06):
partnership because i know you're really about partnerships yeah and
i admire and respect the fact that you continue to
build community as well which is one thing that i've seen you do really well
yep but share with us how you build that trust but also how you give that trust
so then you can scale yeah so i feel like the everyone you know i meet with
(12:27):
entrepreneurs i don't think there's day goes by i'm not meeting with business owners. Yep.
And I always ask them, how do you market? How do you get customers?
And the most common, of course, is word of mouth.
And I think word of mouth, that's amazing. I mean, think about it.
Word of mouth, that means that someone likes your product or likes you,
and they're willing to tell other people about it. That is the best way you can scale.
(12:49):
It doesn't require money out of your pocket up front to get that person to go
tell their friends and family about it.
But in my experience most of the people who do word of
mouth can do so much more and so much better
like they'll go to events they'll meet
people won't follow through you know there's all sorts of stuff that they can
do and i've never seen anyone where i'm like boy they have they've accomplished
(13:12):
everything and they're at the pinnacle of word of mouth i feel like there's
a huge opportunity for people to increase the amount of leads and the amount
of flow to their business.
So with your experience, of course, with building community,
share with us maybe a few tactical approaches that you've been able to utilize
(13:33):
as far as creating community, but also partnerships.
Yeah. So that's number one. And then the follow-on question is,
how do I or they, those that are listening to this, how do you give trust to
build or scale your operation?
Yeah. Because I feel that you've got different entrepreneurs that are solopreneurs,
(13:58):
but then they're starting to have to sell a vision, just like this gentleman
who is scared to just give 10% equity for 50K. Yeah, right.
So where is the difference, or how do you go from, okay, I'm ready to give 50K
because I just want to see this grow. So what's the mindset shift there?
(14:19):
Yeah, so going to the first question. So I think there's tactical things you
can do to build your community and build that network.
A lot of investors I see or partners or business owners, they're not plateauing
at this point. They're going backwards.
So they build up their business because they have this community and they've
kind of talked to most people in their business, in their community about their business.
(14:41):
And then all of a sudden there's not new people coming in and they go backwards.
They don't want to plateau.
So number one is, I have three things. Number one is, pull out your phone and
keep in contact with the contacts you've made.
It's like you're sitting on goldmine.
Let's say that you have a couple thousand people in your contacts.
(15:01):
You've got to ask yourself a question.
One is, is there a percentage of those people that should buy your product or service?
And number two is, is there anyone in that phone that should be an affiliate
or a partner that can offer your product or service to their community?
And the answer is always yes. And it doesn't matter if it's 10% or 20%.
It could be 100 to 200 people sitting on that phone right now.
(15:24):
And so we'll plant those seeds. There's probably 2,000 people we've planted
a seed, but we haven't nurtured it.
So I always tell people, pull out the phone. The first time I did this,
I literally sat in front of a spreadsheet with my phone.
And I made an old school type in the name and the number of the person that
I felt like could fit those two questions.
And I made a list of 400 people. And then I just, my plan was 10 to 15 texts
(15:49):
a day, starting to nourish those relationships.
So start there. That is the best place to start. There's probably people in
there right now that could solve your problem in your business right now.
I've seen that time and time again, because, you know, as a community builder
and somebody who loves to nurture relationships, just like you, it's like...
(16:11):
It's not always about how big, you know what I mean? Sure.
I was just thinking about it the other day. It was like, we,
and you too, we've created bigger type events where it's more than just a mastermind
group, right? Or a small group around a table.
And what I've realized is the community wants a show, but the show isn't the
(16:36):
community. Yeah, right.
Yeah, that's right. Right. That's a good insight, actually.
I was like, man, that is what we must continue to focus on.
We, as participants in events, we enjoy it, right? But there's also something
more that can be had in that.
(16:57):
So it's just a matter of quality as opposed to quantity.
And then just continue to nurture. It's funny, too, within marketing,
it's like, I'll go and ask a company,
How are you currently leveraging the customer base you already have?
Like you were saying, some companies don't even talk to their customers.
(17:20):
A buyer's a buyer, so they want to engage with you more.
So they buy a product. They're the highest likelihood of buying another product
from you. Yeah. Right? Yeah.
Share with us other tactical approaches. I mean, you have one.
So the second one is, is what you
and I are doing, creating a community or attending the live events, right?
(17:40):
So either you're attending a live event or you're creating a community.
For me, on creating your own community, I always start with the end in mind.
So I try to find, like, I have an X room event.
That's my private community, right? And I try to find, okay,
I want to get like the Bucked Up guys, for instance.
The founders of Bucked Up. Like, how do I get that person in a room?
(18:01):
And I come up with a list of certain rules that I won't break.
And then I go after that, right? So for instance, I'm like, yeah.
So I was like, Hey, they're not going to give me three days of their life.
They're not going to give me a weekend. They're not going to give me something
every single week either.
So what are all the things that they won't do and what will they do?
Well, they'll probably have to eat a lunch. There's a good book called never eat lunch alone.
(18:26):
So I was like, I just do a lunch and I do it every 90 days.
I don't do it every week. And I'm also not going to hit them up to say,
Hey, give me 5,000 bucks to go attend this lunch.
Right? So I'm just trying to attract that person.
So I'm going to make it no barriers. There's lots of friction when someone has to go to an event.
It's like time, money. I'm just going to make it the most simple,
remove all the obstacles.
(18:47):
So someone like that will actually get out of their busy, crazy life and get
into a room with other entrepreneurs. That was where I started.
And so I started the first one at like 35 people. Now it's like 130 to 150 show up at this thing.
And it just keeps growing with this momentum, right?
And so that's one. But if you're attending an event, I've just seen so many
(19:09):
best practices and so many bad practices.
And I literally, you know the Ivies. I went to an event with them a couple months
ago. And it was at a shooting range.
And they had a big building where everyone was coming in. And I just sat by
the door to see how people showed up at events just to try to do my own research.
And 90% of the time, it's awkward.
(19:29):
You know, it's like certain introverts are like, hey, go do this networking event.
They're like, oh, I'd rather die, right? So what happens is they come into the
room and they look at their phone, is the most common thing I've seen, and their head's down.
And then they go stand in the corner. The last thing they want to be is,
you know, go talk to people.
(19:49):
So they're in their phone. No one's connecting with them. No one's going up
to them because you look busy. you're on the phone and you're in the corner.
And so I recommend to people that you just put that phone away for a bit,
walk through those doors with energy, with power, and walk right to the center
of the room and go introduce yourself to people.
Everyone is in a networking event. They're all there to meet people.
(20:13):
That's the easiest place to go talk to people. And you got to show up.
And when you're there, if you meet 10 people, don't set up an appointment with all 10.
Try to find the ones that actually can be a good affiliate partner for you a customer,
or service and then what i my closing line
every time is like hey based on what you're doing yeah
(20:34):
riches are made in the follow-through right so based on what you're doing and
what we're doing i feel like there's some good synergies here how's your schedule
tuesday or tuesday at noon let's do lunch together and follow through yeah well
i know i remember you know when we were part part of the Genius Network and
Joe Polish there in Phoenix, Arizona,
every single event that we would attend.
(20:55):
It was almost like two days prior to the event and two days after,
I cleared my schedule. Yeah, smart.
That's really smart. I'm like, I'm zoned in. I'm focused.
I'm ready to learn. I'm intently focused on what it is I'm going to give,
but also what I will receive how I will intentionally use that information to
(21:19):
better my life and then better the lives of others.
Because there's this disconnect at times with those that are self-serving.
Yeah. They only are...
I have a saying, it's called like faith, action, flow.
Faf, you know, it's kind of funny, but faith, action, flow.
(21:41):
And when you take faith, right, you say, okay, you know, we're going to step
out not knowing exactly what's going to happen, which is the action part.
And then we are flow. We have to flow. Like you cannot let things come in, right?
For example, information, resources, ideas, things like that,
right? And of course, as soon as you start to become isolated, there's no flow.
(22:08):
There's no innovation. The creativity leaves you.
And that's where, anyway, I don't want to go too far into that,
but it's basically just this flow that we as entrepreneurs and creators must
have because the moment that we compare,
hair the moment that we're finding ourselves in a position of of
(22:29):
lack or you know or a survival state or of
scarcity yeah that doesn't allow
for complete creativity and almost anything is possible because that's what
we are as entrepreneurs we're we're dreamers but then doers yeah so i'm a big
believer in that so i finished a book it's one of my all-time favorites of wright
(22:49):
brothers and you got Orville and Wilbur Wright, right?
And this Dayton, Ohio, they're the first obviously to create it based on them
watching a bird, figuring out that it requires resistance.
Up to that, yeah. Yeah, so up to that point, it was like they would only fly,
when it was just completely peaceful, no wind.
(23:10):
Yes. They don't want to get injured. It's like, why would you go try to fly and win?
And they found out that resistance is what brings you up and they're the best
innovators of all time. I love them because they had a bike shop shop.
They're bike guys, and they're in this shop, and they come up with this concept, right?
But the sad part about it is after they break, they basically create a miracle in flight.
(23:32):
They spend the last several years of their life just suing others and going
through stress, trying to protect what they did.
So they innovated, innovated, innovated, and then they stopped innovating,
and they just tried to protect, and they went to a shortage mentality.
So Wilbur had a full-on stroke because
of stress and these two literally sued
(23:54):
sued sued sued to the end of their life it was just a
really sad ending of the story that no one knows about because
we just think of the wright brothers high fly i didn't know that yeah so when
you talk about like innovation is that flow they stopped flowing and if you
look at the history there's others that kept flowing and did all the the innovation
from there right but they stopped can't steer a parked car they They say, you know what I mean?
(24:18):
You can own a Ferrari, but what the heck are you going to do with it if it just
sits in your garage? That's right. You know what I mean? No flow.
And I hope you guys are catching this. This is a good, this is a good podcast for sure.
Because there are times in life, right? Where you feel as if gravity and of
failure is just, that's just what it is.
(24:38):
And it's just going to, you know, pound you and beat you down to the ground.
But it's actually based on what you're saying. And then also time and time again,
where we read and then we also experience through our own getting in the ring, right?
And learning and scrapping and growing those muscles that we need to overcome
the failure and the gravity and essence of life.
(24:59):
And I think that's just so important. So back to the founder who has a 10% equity
offer on the table for $50,000.
We don't have to name names or the company.
That's just a scenario. So let's just take that one scenario.
And because there's all sorts of scenarios.
You've got the person that's 350 at 15%. You've got the partnership that comes
(25:24):
along and is like, hey, man, I'll work hard and I'll do a rev share with you
at 20% on whatever product or service you offer.
So share with us the mindset that you must have, in essence,
to go into a negotiation of a partnership that will be a strategic win-win. Yeah.
So a lot of people ask us questions like, hey, what do I do in a partnership, right?
(25:47):
And I feel like a lot of people like the idea, and then they just jump into
it, but they don't actually have clear expectations going in.
In so like and i think a mistake a lot
of these investors make like i'm just going to pitch people who have
money that's a massive mistake yes try to
do something strategic right like one
of the entrepreneurs has a salt non-salt ice melter and he got an offer that
(26:16):
was less money than another investor but the less money guy has a ton of apartment
complexes and it would be such a It's just strategic. The other guy is just
like, I'm passive money.
I'm going to give you 10 grand. This guy is like, I'll give you five grand,
but I'm going to get you in contracts with all of our apartments.
And I was like, what do you do? He's like, oh, I'm going to go for the 10.
(26:37):
Right? Okay. Because it's more money. And I was like, let's talk this through. What does this mean?
10, what strategy do you get from it? Well, I just get money, help me fund, right?
What does this person bring to the table? And so it was like,
oh, I can get contracts. I can get deals.
I can get flow. I can get everything else because of this relationship.
So it's important. Just don't make a decision based on money or pitch someone
(27:02):
just because they have money. Make sure it's the right fit.
You want to date the money with the right opportunity, right?
I recently had an experience where an individual who is the head of marketing
or something at the Stein Erickson Lodge, gifted Lacey and I,
my wife, a night at a, like in one of their suites.
(27:24):
And I was very appreciative of it, of course, and it was like,
wow, this is like the luxury life.
You know, you pull up to the thing and it was like, hello, Mr.
Bed, and blah, blah, blah. And I was like, okay, well, I can get my own bags.
You know, I don't need you touching my bag. Right. It was kind of funny.
But the moral of the story here is the value that it was for someone to rent
(27:46):
out room is typically like $800 to $1,000.
Yep. But the individual who did the gifting is interested in a long-term relationship.
So wise money is long-term. Sure.
And I believe that that's so true, and more people need to understand that,
(28:07):
that there is a fine balance between the giving of time, money,
resources, things like that.
But also there's a long-term approach that then can allow for a deeper relationship
to actually occur. You know what I mean? Sure.
So it was just a different paradigm shift, right?
When you look at old money that's also super wise, and it's just you have these
(28:32):
individuals that are like, oh man, I'm investing in five years from now.
So if you have this kind of an internal perspective as well,
but also a long-term perspective, perspective it's going to totally shift
your entire perspective on money yeah
on what you grow sure relationships that you're building i think
that's how you should approach relationships because people say hey
(28:53):
what do i even do when i go into meetings and when i meet people what what shall
i i don't what what should i present to them i'm like that's the wrong question
like right yeah just go into that mindset like you said hey what what value
can i provide to them and they're They're going to see you as someone who leads with value first.
And then you could even ask, like, who do you think I should talk to that might
(29:16):
be a good fit as an affiliate for me? That's what I'm looking for right now. Yeah.
But if you lead first with like, hey, how do I seek to understand what Nate
wants to accomplish first?
And then I may have some intros immediately I can send you.
And then, hey, Nate, this is what I'm trying to accomplish and work together
that way. But lead with a value and seek to understand first. Just ask questions.
(29:38):
I've found as well as being really transparent in essence with proper expectations
that you're setting to to set the stage for a relationship.
So for example, I'll come in and I'll say, so this is the first stage of a relationship.
I want to get to know you. Of course, I see that you have X,
(29:59):
Y, and Z, maybe skills, services, company, money, or things like that with the
overall intent of X, Y, and Z.
So then we first, we firmly established what that is going to look like right
up front where, because I've experienced, you know, definitely when I was raising
funds, I raised, you know, $350,000 for WordBeam, our educational learning application.
(30:20):
And the startup studio that we were working with was...
You know, where we have spent $137,000 on them and then only to have,
only to have them want to, to take our idea in the very end.
So, you know, for that, there was no, there was no real proper expectations
that were set and then, and then a negotiation that can take place.
(30:44):
Because if you're 100% on the table, like this is what I'm looking for,
you know, this is the timeline that I'm looking for it, then the other person
can react appropriately to the truth that is set. You know what I mean? Yeah.
But it's not always as easy.
Yeah. You know what I mean? For sure. Yeah. At TaxHive, I made that mistake early on.
(31:09):
We're sales and marketing guys. We're like, hey, let's outsource our taxes to tax professionals.
And we went to a firm, and they said all the right things. Like,
hey, let's do this. and it was a bad customer experience.
They weren't picking up the phone, weren't taking care of the client, nothing.
And we got all this blowback and we finally had to move. And I always look back
and it's like, hey, how clear was that expectation?
(31:30):
That we document everything and the clear expectations of what they're taking on.
And every time I've had some failure in business is because we just didn't do
it up front. It just sounds good and you just jump right in.
And you don't put up good fences and you don't have a good system.
You don't have a good process for saying, this is exactly what you're agreeing
to and what I'm agreeing to. Right.
Man, there's so much to learn. Well, we may have to have a part two on this one.
(31:54):
Just out of respect for your time out there, everybody, and then also your time,
Sean, I'd like to end it out, though.
Do you have any last words for the entrepreneur that you were in the past and
then also some of the wisdom that you would share with him as you are younger, right?
And then also to those that are out there. So what advice do you have for your
(32:17):
younger self? Yeah, so for sure for my younger self, if I did it all over again,
I feel like after I raised that money, I failed in the next 12 months.
I lost all 1.5, barely made payroll by $1,000 the next day on a Thursday night, didn't sleep.
I mean, it was a miserable, miserable run.
(32:38):
And that afternoon on Friday, I remember everything I'd read.
I started pulling up pictures of incredible entrepreneurs like Steve Jobs.
What I found is, wait a minute, Steve Jobs isn't by himself in this photo.
He's got Wozniak in there.
Wait a minute, you pull up any of the greatest in history, they're never self-made and do it alone.
(33:01):
None of them. I don't think there's not one.
They always have integrators around their vision, right?
And so I came to the conclusion that afternoon I was going to start building
relationships in business. And I built a relationship with an individual who
changed everything for me.
And we went on a run where I was able to pay off the $1.5 all back to the investors plus interest.
(33:22):
And it was only because I built relationships. That's why I'm so passionate
about, because I've personally lived it.
Not building relationships and then building relationships transformed my whole career.
And had I not had relationships, I'd be down in the dumps. I know it.
And so my young self, I'd be like, don't start getting knee-deep in crocodiles
(33:45):
and get so focused on you and not looking
outside that lane and building relationships. Start doing it early.
Start building relationships, start building partnerships, start building affiliates now. Don't wait.
It's like, oh, I got to get through this thing in the business,
and then I'll start doing that.
No, the way you're going to get through that thing in your business is to have
a relationship and get a referral, that kind of stuff.
(34:08):
You hear it from Sean, community builder, co-founder, partnership wizard,
for sure, and a genuinely nice guy.
So how do we get a hold of view, Sean?
What's the best way? I think there's a few things on TaxHive.
We onboard a lot of clients every week, and we see three quick things.
One is they're just not taking the deductions like they should.
(34:30):
The basic stuff that we all know,
they're not taking nearly of it because they're small business owners.
They go to the big four accounting firms. The big four accounting firms don't
serve them, so they just go try to figure it out.
They're not tax people, but they try to do it anyways, and they end up just
getting hammered. They don't take even the basic ones.
There's a ton of deductions that they don't know about.
They probably could qualify for five or six more.
(34:53):
Start stacking up the deductions to offset your income, right?
And the number three is don't put everything in your own name.
We run into that all the time. If someone has an apartment complex, it's in their name.
They're just set up for lawsuits. So we do a blueprint and we'll send it out
to you and you can send it to everyone.
It's a blueprint just for your own keeping, but it answers five to 20 questions
(35:15):
and it spits you out a report to your email, and I'll show you how you can save now.
So that's the best way to engage, and we do that for free.
Okay, good. Cool. And then also, do you have a personal Instagram that people can follow as well?
Finnegan Sean. I think I'm the only Finnegan Sean out there. Okay, awesome. Yeah.
Well, thank you so much for joining us on the Founders Odyssey podcast with Sean Finnegan.
(35:38):
And we're just excited to continue to create this podcast.
And if you guys have any recommendations for good guests, please just make sure to comment below.
And continue to listen to the previous episodes. Thank you so much,
and we'll talk to you guys soon.
Music.
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